On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Chris Appleton EXCLUSIVE: “I Thought My Kids Would Be Better Off Without Me” Opening up About The Darkest Night of His Life and What FINALLY Gave Him The Courage to Live Authentically

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

Have you ever felt pressure to hide a part of who you are? What helps you feel safe enough to open up? Today, Jay chats with renowned celebrity hairstylist Chris Appleton to share deeply personal parts of his life he’s never shared publicly. Known for creating iconic looks for stars like Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, and Ariana Grande, Chris has built a career around image and transformation. Chris bravely opens up about the journey that shaped him, pulling back the curtain on the private struggles behind his public success. From growing up in a working-class town in England, and discovering his passion for hair was a way to survive, to feel seen, and to express who he really was.  As the conversation unfolds, Chris opens up about the darkest night of his life. The moment he nearly ended his life, a breaking point born from decades of shame, fear, and the belief that being true to himself would hurt the people he loved most. What followed was not an overnight transformation, but a long, honest path toward healing. Chris speaks candidly about coming out as gay in his late twenties, the grief of ending a nine-year relationship with the mother of his children, and the fear of disappointing his kids.  Jay and Chris explore the power of redefining identity, letting go of what no longer serves us, and embracing the possibility of change at any stage in life. With the support of therapy, self-reflection, and a willingness to confront his pain, Chris began a new chapter, one rooted in alignment between his inner and outer world. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Embrace Your True Identity Without Shame How to Heal After Hiding Your Authentic Self How to Rebuild Private Pain in Public  How to Support Your Children Through Major Life Changes How to Start Over When Your Life No Longer Feels Aligned How to Find Peace Through Forgiveness and Self-Acceptance How to Recognize When It’s Time to Let Go and Move On No matter your past, your pain, or how long you’ve carried it, it’s never too late to begin again. The first step is being honest with yourself. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Find help and support If you or someone you know is struggling or having thoughts of suicide, call or text the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline  at 988 or chat at 988lifeline.org . In life-threatening situations, call 911. Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:13 Your Roots Don't Define Who You Can Become 06:19 Is It Safer to Hide Who You Really Are? 10:11 What It Actually Takes to Become the Best  14:32 Finding Yourself After an Identity Crisis 17:27 Letting Go of Shame to Be Your True Self 20:15 Accepting and Embracing Your Gender Identity 22:46 How to Come Out Without Hurting the People You Love 30:21 Choosing Inner Peace Over the Deepest Pain 33:10 Rebuilding Yourself After Grief and Collapse 36:40 Why the Right Guidance Can Change Everything 39:13 Struggling Doesn’t Mean You’re Weak 39:30 Forgiveness: Freeing Yourself from the Past 41:15 Sharing Your Story Could Save Someone Else 44:29 When a New Environment Heals Your Spirit 45:06 The Unexpected Call That Changed Everything 47:29 The Hair Appointment That Almost Ended His Career 52:23 How to Build Authentic Relationships in Your Industry 55:33 You Don’t Owe the Public an Explanation 59:09 Why Love Is Always Worth the Risk 01:01:48 Give Yourself Permission to Walk Away 01:05:35 How to Protect Your Peace in a Loud World 01:10:35 What Do You Really See in the Mirror? 01:12:28 Being the Father You Always Needed 01:19:01 Chris on Final Five Episode Resources: Chris Appleton | Instagram  Chris Appleton | YouTube Chris Appleton | TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20-pound anti-taint mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. When we stepped beyond the edge of what we know, clinically died, the heart stopped beating. Which I was dead for 11.5 minutes.

In return. It's a miracle I was brought back. Alive Again, a podcast about the strength of the human spirit. Listen to Alive Again on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey guys, it's Janae, aka Cheekies from Cheekies and Chill Podcasts. And I'm bringing you an all new mini podcast series called Sincerely Janay. Sure, I'm a singer, author, businesswoman, and podcaster,

but at the end of the day, I am human. And that's why I'm sharing my ups and downs with you in real time and on the go. Listen to Jikis and Chill on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bob Crawford, host of American History Hotline, a different type of podcast. You, the listener, ask the questions. Did George Washington really cut down a cherry? Were JFK and Marilyn Monroe having an affair? And I find the answers.

I'm so glad you asked me this question. This is such a ridiculous story. You can listen to American History Hotline on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay. It's not something I've ever spoken about. Chris Appleton is a hairstylist to the stars, including Jennifer Lopez, Kim Kardashian, Doolipa.

When did you realize that you couldn't stop hiding who you really were? I came out 26 and all the people said to me, well, you must have already known and just hit it. And I wasn't aware that I did know. Being a gay child, I learned to hide myself. When I did hair, there was this whole thing about sexuality and it's like, oh, you're gay. Being gay must be bad because people are, you know, they weren't saying it in a nice way. Like, you're gay. They were like, you're gay.

It was you who filed for divorce. Everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy. Just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid. I was going through a lot of private pain. What really helped me was not being okay. You write about the night that you tried to end your life. I close my eyes and this is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore.

We reached out to the kids. They sent us a note for you. Oh God, I don't know what to say. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. He won, the only. Jay Shetty.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. thank you so much for tuning into the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. Every guest I sit down with has been on an incredible healing journey, whether it's their mind, their emotions, or even their soul. And today's guest is someone who's been on an unexpected internal journey because their life is so public and external. Today's guest is Chris Appleton, a renowned celebrity hairstylist, best known for creating iconic looks for the likes of Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, Ariana Grande, and so many more.

Chris is the global creative director for Color Wow Hair and a social media sensation with over 7 million followers. His work is regularly featured in Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, L, and InStyle. In his debut book, Your Roots Don't Define You. Chris opens up about identity, transformation, and self-worth. So I want you to support Chris. Go and pre-order it right now. Please welcome to On Purpose.

Chris Appleton. Chris. Thank you so much, Jay. It's great to have you here. Great to finally be here. I mean, we have bumped into each other in a million places. Absolutely. Whether it's...

Different cities or... Different situations. Absolutely. And I've always been an admirer of you and your work from the outside. You work with incredible people. They have so much love and respect for you. But I have to be honest and say that when I read the book, I have a different level of respect for you that came from this book

because I can see you really want to help people. and I can see that you want to use your journey as a way of supporting other people's journeys. And I find that fascinating because you don't really know that when you follow someone on Instagram or see them. So I'm glad that we get to pull back the curtain on your life and understand you more. No, absolutely. I think there's so much about that that we make an assumption of people by social media or just what we see because it's surface level. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's so nice to be able to get to know more and just know some of the magic of how things are done

and how everyone else can have a part of that. And that's what I hope with the book, that people feel like they can have a part of that and, you know, help me their comeback. Yeah, and it's so nice to sit with another man from England and think about the crazy journey. We just realized we both moved to the States nine years ago. I have no regrets.

What about you? No, me too. I love it here. It's been amazing to me. It's been so good to me. I feel like it's been good to you as well. Absolutely. And I'm a Londoner at heart always through and through,

but there's a beauty living here. Yeah, I mean, there's so many nice things when you go home. just went back and the chocolate, I just always love the chocolate. It's a little sweeter. We love them of a sweet too. A bit milkier. In England, exactly. Yeah, and just some of those richest things. I just like dairy milk, the whole milk, yeah. But I'm always, I'm like sitting in the stores like just looking at all of the, the, I remember pickled onion crisp and I was that? And I'm like, oh my God, you know what big? Yeah, exactly, all the things. Yeah. But no, it's fun to go back, but LA's definitely home now. Yeah, I love that. Well, Chris, I wanted to

ask you something that I often ask a lot of guests, because. I think I'm always fascinated by how who we were places imprints on us into who we become. And I wanted to ask you, do you have a childhood experience that you remember that you think has defined who you are today? An experience or a memory that you have that you feel had some coding into who you've become today. You know, it's funny you say that because I have a very distinct memory. But for a long time, it was a really sad one. But the more I've understood that memory, the more I realized it was kind of where I was out in my life. And it's sad because I guess it was a memory at the age of, it was maybe sort of eight and nine years old. And I remember

looking outside the window, I come from a big family in the UK, I'm one of five. We were, you know, really working class, if not poor. You know, we didn't have many luxurers. And life was real. It was very, you know, different to L.A. and sunshine. It was like rainy and gray. And I remember, sort of looking out of the window and I felt like I didn't really belong. I knew I felt different. I knew there was something different. Like my brothers enjoyed doing football and sports. And my sister's like doing girls things like, I don't know, they were playing with barbies or braiding hair. And I kind of fell somewhere in the middle. I didn't really feel like I fit in. I was a middle child also. And I remember just looking out and I felt quite alone.

And I think that was the beginning of me kind of abandoning myself in a way. to fit in, to fit in with what I think people around me thought I should be or who I was told to be. So that memory was in one way, it's very motivational now. Now I know what it meant because I can kind of go back to that moment and I've learned that during therapy and sort of being able to like connect with that inner child, which for so long I ignored. But I think for me it was a real special moment that I go back to because you can kind of change that. You can change what you came from. And that's a lot about what the book's about. It's about how your roots don't define you.

And it really is about, you know, we all grow up being told to be something or be someone or we have influences around us, which kind of lead us into a certain part of our lives. And sometimes we stop and look in the mirror and don't recognize how we got there, let alone how we look. You know, sometimes I've worked with clients and I'll say, you've got short, dark hair and bangs, why is that? And it's just what I've always had. I don't know. We ever thought about going lighter and longer? Well, no, not really.

Why not? Well, just because that's not what. They kind of then stop and go, well, why have I never thought that? Because no one I've given freedom to. And a lot about what my job was about is really kind of opening people up. It really starts on the outside as a visual, but then once you start going internal with things and breaking down these kind of boundaries, it's really quite magical what can happen.

And that in a nutshell is kind of what I've always done, gone that little bit deeper. And I guess going back to that childhood memory really helps me, kind of remember that, that your roots really don't define you and you do have a chance to start again. It's never too late. Yeah, it's such a interesting connection that you made there because most people wouldn't see that. You wouldn't think that something aesthetic like that about yourself is so deep rooted, but it is. And all these limitations and blocks and all this conditioning that we all have, whether it's about who you can become, how much money you can make, who you're meant to be in the world. And for you, you fell in love with the hair quite early, right? Yeah.

Like that was something you discovered. Really? What was the discovery of it? I think it was honestly the first time I felt good at something. I was pretty young. I was maybe like nine, 10 years old at a similar age where I was dyslexics. And I really knew what that was then.

So you were kind of just told you it was stupid. I remember I used to sit in the classes and I was like, please someone answer the question because I did not know what he was going on about. When I sort of started to paint, I noticed I got like a reaction. And then when I started to use my hands and do hair, which was my mom at the time, I realized you had this ability to sort of change the way people felt.

I really liked that. I loved that you could transform people. I was really mesmerized by that. But I noticed people reacted different. And I felt like that was almost like a superpower. So I just thought, I'm going to be the best of it. If this is what I'm good at, I'll be the best at it. And I'll prove everyone wrong that I'm not stupid.

And again, just being conditioned to, I mean, I was pretty bullied at school because of that. And then when I did hair, there was this whole thing about sexuality. and it's like, oh, you're gay. Because no one back then did hair. No one had a job at 13. And doing hair was, you know, stereotypically where I grew up. People, you know, said, okay, were you gay? And that was before I really even understood sexuality.

I didn't even really consider it. I was just a young guy having a great time. You know, when you're a kid, you just, you're free. You know, it's great. It's such a good feeling. And then the harsh reality of life slaps you around the face one day. And I remember sort of things with thought, well, bad, that's bad. like being gay must be bad because people are they weren't saying it in a nice way like you're gay they were like you're gay you know people would like spit on you and i mean it was bad i got bullied quite aggressively and i think that really led me to push and i guess push away from myself that's i think when the curtain started to come down and i really abandoned myself because i started to become a version of myself that i thought other people wanted to see so talk a little bit more masculine so

stand more masculine. You know, you start to become very aware of your mannerisms. Doing hair was feminine, so I kind of kept it to myself and I just kept my head down. I didn't want to tell people about it. And it's really sad because I think being a gay child, I learned to hide myself. I learned to hide the parts of myself with authentic. And I adapted myself into being something that I thought other people wanted me to be. And as an adult, what you have to do is then on pick those parts and find out what were the parts that are actually me and the parts that I created for other people. And as much as anything, I'll go back to the book. Like, there is stories about my life and as reflection, but it's really about helping people to get back to theirs and unpick

it as well. Because sometimes it takes a bit of that work. And that work can be brutal. It's not the easiest work I've ever done, but I would say the most rewarding for sure. Yeah, I like the way you drew that, that when you reflect on your past, you've got to pick a part of the parts that you've made for yourself and the parts that you made for others that's such a great and everyone has that you know if you grow up into a family of religion or if you grow into a family of different beliefs and cultures you tend to take them on even relationships you know we look at relationships of like that's how mom and dad interact and you kind of carry that throughout your life and it's not until you get into relationships an adult and you're like oh you can do it differently you know and they're all

the lessons we learn as adults but not everyone is like I guess aware of that not everyone is aware is you can change the story. And there's a real freedom to doing that. Yeah, I want to go down two paths based on what you said. But the first path, before we go down the other, because the other will lead to more different opportunities to talk about. But the first part is, you said you wanted to become the best. As soon as you discovered that you could do hair,

you're like, I'm going to become really good at this. What did it take to become the best at what you do? Because you are. You work with the best. You consider the best by the people. that you serve, what did that take? Because I think often when we look at athletes or you look at business,

there's people who've told those stories, but when you take something as artistic as air, we don't necessarily think about it in the same way. Totally. At least publicly, even though it's such an important part of daily life that everyone has, right? And so I want you to walk me through, what was that process like?

Like, what did that take? What did that look like? I think I just was so determined, and not to be stupid, not to be deemed as bad or different, that I really wanted to be good at something. And like I say, it's kind of a double-edged sword because it motivated me to want to do better. And my focus really was to just get on it as fast as I could.

And I just put everything I had into hair. Like I got a job at the age of 13. At a salon? Yeah. And I remember my first day, I remember very clear. I remember standing against a wall and I saw people walk in one way. And I saw them then walk out another one.

way once the hair done. And I swear they were standing a little taller and their, you know, their shoulders went back. And I said, this is good. I love this. And I was like, I want to do that. I remember literally thinking, this is what I'm going to do. And I just like every aspect of hair. And if I didn't know how to do it, I'd find out. You know, I mean, eventually as my career progressed and I became top sort of hairstylist, I then was like, well, what's outside of this? So I'd look outside. And it's all this thing called editorial hair and there's fashion shows. And there's, and every, every kind of block was like a beginning again because no one really kind of like if you're a salon hairdresser you're just a fashion hairdresser you know they kind of there's a little bit competition yeah totally it's like you know

people love to put you in a box all my life people love to put me in a box still to today i'm always trying to fight being put out of box i don't know if you can relate to that i can so relate i think a lot of people just still love to put you where they know you can stay and i just push myself to know every aspects. And if I didn't know what it was, I remember, for example, I eventually got an editorial job and they wanted a look that I just didn't know how to do. And I just got in a car. I took myself to this local salon and she did this. It was like this, this like weaving technique of, it's called a basket weave and like I would sit there and watch her and just pay this woman to sit and watch and I'd sit with her doll's head up all night. I don't know. I just, I think I just went above and

beyond. I loved what I did. I still love what I do. And I just, I think that combined with, again, a bit of a blessing and a curse, like a little bit of an OCD mentality where I wanted it to be good and I could see things. I don't just let things go. I can see every detail and every little hair. And I think that can combine and just the passion to want to be good at something just pushed me. And it's funny now, because it's only now, I'm 42, and I look back at videos. I recently just put some things on social media because someone came from the UK with a big box of DVDs. And even I forgot what I did to get to where I've got. Every competition I did, and I didn't win and failed. And every, you know, educational thing that I failed because of my dyslexia,

I just kept bouncing back. And the nose, I had people laugh in my face. You know, I remember eventually I got an agent and I was so excited about the next steps. And they'd laugh at me. They were like, you know, you just need to stay where you are and keep it real. And they'd send me on a photo shoot for some flip-flop commercial. I just, I didn't care. I was just determined. And I think you have to have that resilience along the way. I think you really have to have that internal resilience to stay focused. And it's not, it was never one thing. It was just lots of little leapfrog moments. Everyone thinks it's this big moment. It really isn't. It's just a build. But I would say one of my biggest secrets to success in that area was just to be consistent.

I stayed consistent. And when I got knocked down, I got back up when I carried on. And I tried to land by every mistake as I went along. If I, if I failed, I said, why did I fail and that person went? Why did that person get it? And I didn't. I would look. And I don't. analyze the situation and come back. Yeah. And I think that's a lot of what it takes. Yeah, absolutely. It's good advice.

It's also good to hear that there's no industry in which you just one day get a call from, you know, the biggest star in the world. It's like everyone's earned their stripes and done the work and it's good to hear about it, whether it's podcasting, whether it's hair, whether it's music and athletes that we've had. It's always that. You always hear that same story. But going back to England and talking about the derogatory use of the term game,

I mean, I went to a boy's school. Okay. And I think about all the guys at my school that got so bullied. Really? Because we went to a boy school as well. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And now when I look at how many guys in my school were gay but never came out until years later, some of them at university, some of them much later than that.

And I'm just like, wow, they never even had the opportunity because they thought immediately that if they were to say that at our school, they were going to get. bullied for it. Yeah. And so I get how real that was at that time especially. And of course, there are still parts of the world where that's still the case. But how early were you sure about that being part of your identity and were you consciously masking it? Or was it still a discovery of your identity? Or was it like, oh, I know that's true and I'm going to hide it now, as you said, you had to abandon yourself? Or was it like, I don't really know what that is and I'm discovering and figuring it out. How was it for you? Yeah, I get asked to this a lot. It took me a while to understand because in the beginning, I didn't know myself.

I came out of 26 and all the people said to me, well, you must have already known and just hit it. And I wasn't aware that I did know. And I'll tell you now, Jay, like the brain is such a powerful tool and shame is such a powerful tool. And when I think back to that eight-year-old kid that just felt different and I had to hide it, like I feel so sad for that little guy because I really did abandon myself. and I think I just, I shut it out. I didn't even allow myself to think about it. It was before sexuality, I was even thinking about having sex. So anything like that, I just knew it was bad and I just pushed it away.

So I went through my life, like I said, trying to just be normal. And as far as I was aware, it was fine. And it's not until you really, you have these moments where you stop at life. Life makes you stop sometimes. If you don't choose to stop and look in the mirror, sometimes life makes you stop. It's an, you know, you're losing a family member. It can be anything. but sometimes you have to sit with yourself.

And I don't know that ever allowed myself to know. I never had the space to express that. And that's why I'm hoping with like the book that I can help someone that feels not seen and someone that is going through a hard time or someone that is successful but miserable when they get home. Because I never got that opportunity. And finding that makes such a difference. It makes a difference in the job you do, the relationships you have, the friendships you have,

and just generally who you are as a person. I think that's what people don't realize. I love that point you just made that it actually impacts all other parts of your self-expression. Oh, it's crazy. Because it is your identity. It's crazy. It's who you are.

And so if you're hiding that part, you're hiding all these other skills and talents and abilities. I know because one of my closest friends came out when he was 30. Yeah. And he grew up in a Muslim background. And so that was extremely hard for me

because of the religious pressure and it was such a journey for him and he thinks about who he became after that age. And it's almost like everything went in his favor after that. Whereas up until that point, it always felt like everything was working against him. But he like you also felt that he had to hide and not be honest with himself. Yeah. I think my whole life changed when I authentically, and it took a few years to get to that point. It took therapy. It took understanding. It took being with myself. But part of that was moving to L.A. and I think the great thing about

moving to LA was I didn't feel any shame because I'm also a dad and I hold that very close to my heart. My biggest focus in life is being a great dad to two kids and any parent out there can connect to that. I will always put them before myself. The difficulty with shame is it's very different, difficult to heal when I wasn't just feeling my shame. I was feeling shame for them. I was feeling shame. Yeah, I felt a lot of shame. And moving to America, the part of it that became easier is because an introduction could be like, hey, I'm Chris, and it's like, I'm gay, you know, and no one blinks an eyelid. But where I grew up in the town where people knew me, hey, I'm Chris, and it's like, I didn't feel confident to say I was gay. And if I did, they'd be like,

oh, he used to be, he's got a family, he's got kids, oh my God, you know, and there was always this secret, this conversation. It was just this, it felt dark still. It still felt like people wanted to keep putting me back in the box. So, you know, it was kind of part of moving to America was the first time that I could experience what it was really like to come out without all of the outside noise because I'd already made a life for myself. And, you know, I get it. When there's a secret, people want to talk. People love to, you know, when there's a secret, people want to know the answer to it. Yeah, talk to me about that time in your life because when you started dating the mother of your children. Yeah. And that experience, you were married for, like 10 years? Nine years.

Nine years, yeah. It's a long period of time. We were never married, but we were, yeah, nine years. Yeah, committed, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was amazing. I generally believe I was meant to meet Kate. We were together for nine years, and it was magical nine years. It was great. I had two kids. And I honestly thought I had it all figured out.

I remember out of the weekend, I'd be doing the man's day. I'd be painting the fence. I'd be like fixing things. You know, I was just doing all the things that I thought I was supposed to do as a man. And when I did realize I was gay, I mean, God, it came crashing down. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. The OGs of Uncensored Motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica.

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It's your girl, T.S. Madison, coming to you loud, live and in color from the Outlaws podcast. On this week's episode, we're talking to none other than Chaparone and Sasha Colby. And let me tell you, no topic is off limits, honey. We talk about the lovers, the haters, and the creator. I worked at Scooters Coffee Drive-Thru Ciosk. And you are from the Midwest. And in the Midwest, they told you, well, just be humble. Like, you've heard this countless times

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or wherever you get your podcast, honey. I'm Radhiy Dvlukaya, and I'm the host of a really good cry podcast, and I have the opportunity to talk to Logan Yuri. Logan is a dating expert, a behavioral scientist, a best-selling author, and someone who is seriously changing the way we think about love and dating. In our conversation, we talk all things dating, that Logan has studied and tested from what to put in your dating profile, the pictures you should and shouldn't be using,

to the conversation starters that actually work. and the huge no-noes that people probably do not realize are reducing their chances of success on apps. Whether you're single, dating, or just trying to be more intentional in love, Logan offers the kind of clarity we all need. Relationships do require work, and the best relationships are people who really work on them together. They're so focused on, if I find the perfect person, then I'll have the perfect relationship, instead of understanding really that they can choose someone great and then build that relationship together. They don't need to keep searching for perfection.

Listen to a really good cry on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And back to our episode. What do you think it was about that moment that allowed you to be conscious that you were? Like you said, for so long you were hiding it, you were suppressing it, you were putting aside, you're doing all the quote-unquote things you're meant to do as a man. What was it that brought that up for you when you felt like, like you just said, you felt like you'd figured it all out, you're two beautiful kids you loved, you know, Because from the age of eight to the age of 27, I'd held my breath and I could finally

excel. I couldn't hold my breath anymore. I couldn't do it. I tried. I kept trying to, like, and I couldn't. And once I put my tiptoes into breathing and how good that felt, I couldn't stop it. But then came in the shame of like, well, I'm going to hurt all these people I've created this life with.

So I kept pulling back until I just had to let go. How long did you carry that shame of, I know, but I don't want to tell them because it will hurt them and break what they've built? Once I knew, I had an experience, which I talk a bit about in the book, and it wasn't anything heavy. But I was, I said, when I was a kid, I was sat down. I grew up in Northern England. There wasn't, well, middle to north, and it was kind of, being gay wasn't really a thing. There was a gay pub in town, but it was on the outskirts, and the men that went were quite, flamboyant. It wasn't really spoken about. Princess Diana was on the news, shaking a man with

AIDS without gloves. And that was headline news because, you know, like, could she get AIDS from shaking this man's hand? People didn't know enough about it. And they knew about AIDS. And it was kind of told to me that gay men get AIDS. So I was also fearful of that. Someone that's prone to OZD. Like I just felt very conscious of that. So I had an experience that I kind of met someone. We became friends and it never really went beyond friendship. But he told me one day that he was HIV positive. He didn't even live near me. We had a phone call conversation daily, but I became friends with him. And it was the first time that I was kind of like, I like this guy. I really like him. And I kind of was trying to understand it. So it was a slow process. And then he told me

he had HIV and I was like, well, I can't, I'm good. I'm absolutely good. So I literally just cut it off. And even though I hadn't done anything, I felt like, oh my God, could I get HIV? Is this a thing? I don't know. It was really, really scary. And then I guess, over the process of the next year, I think once, like I say, you kind of put your foot in the water, it was just, it was hard to go back. And then once I actually did meet someone, yeah, that was it. There was no going back. That period of your life, I can imagine is, when you look back at it now, it's probably one of the most difficult times, because it's almost like, it got way harder. Which we'll get to. But that moment of, I can finally be honest with myself, but I don't know how to

be honest with the people that I love. Totally. That's like a, there's one thing of like, oh, wow, I can finally be honest with myself. That's huge. Yeah. But then it's always harder when you're trying to express it to other people, I imagine. 100%. What was it like telling your partner at the time?

I told initially my partner and that was a process. And I also had to respect that she needed to go through her own grief. Were you aware of that at the time when you told of her? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's mature. Because I loved her. I really loved her. And I didn't want to be gay. I didn't want to be different. I went back to being the kid at school. But once I told her, I kind of just went on automatic. I told my family and everyone needed to process it the way they needed to process it. And I just had to be respectful of that. You have to let people go through their own grief. I can't control their emotions, nor do I want to. I think it's really important for people to feel and go through the process. but the hardest part was telling my kids and I think mentally for me I couldn't really ever get my head around that.

I've never actually spoke about this. I didn't think I ever would but I do feel ready. I feel ready to talk to people because I feel like hopefully it will help someone else that's going through a difficult time but my job as a dad I felt was to protect my kids. Going through what I went through as a kid

being bullied was horrible. My childhood was a lot of memories are not great ones. So the idea of bringing that to my kids was really painful to feel that they would get bullied because their dad was gay. I know the things that kids say and I know how mean they can be. And I just didn't want them to ever have that shame that was put on me onto them. And in a way, I felt like a disease.

I felt like it was like a cancer. I wanted to cut it out of me. I was like, if I could just get rid of that, then I could just be a normal dad for them. because that's what they need. You know, I just felt so selfish, putting myself first. So eventually people started to talk, as they do. It was a small town, and me and Kate decided to tell the kids. So I couldn't even say the words, and I think maybe a lot of people can relate to this.

Initially, saying the words, I'm gay, is a challenge. Because once those words are out, it's done. I actually didn't say it, the mother of Kate's mom, actually. at it. And then I just saw these two beautiful kids who were like six and eight and they were just, they were upset because they knew why I was upset and they were confused. And all of a sudden I just felt like I'd just messed their life up. And I felt like I'd failed as a dad because my job was to protect them. And if anyone ever hurt them, I would protect them. But I was the one heart in them. And I couldn't understand that. I also just couldn't

I was gay anymore. I was so exhausted from it. So after telling them, just the confusion killed me. And my son said to me, you know, does that mean you're going to, you know, have your arm like this? Like, because he was so young and innocent. And kids at school would do, there was already things said, you know, and I was like, no, you know, I'm just me. I'm the same. I'm not going to change. But are you going to change? Are you going to be different? Yeah, I kind of just shut down. And I left. And I left, not because I was three, but I left because I felt so much shame.

And they got in the car. I drove for a couple of hours. I drove for quite a long time. I felt like five minutes. I just felt like I needed to get away from them. I just felt like I was contagious. And I, sorry, I've not really spoke about this before. You need to be sorry.

Take your time. Yeah. So I felt like it would be better for them to have a dad that was dead than a dad that was gay. And so I brought some painkillers. I brought a bottle of alcohol and I checked myself into a hotel. And the whole time I had a picture of the kids. It was like this computer case it had and they're smiling on it. They wrote a message on it.

It was silly. It was just a little computer case. But I was just holding it the whole time. I'd slept with it a lot throughout that period I just wanted to protect them you know and I took the tablets and drank the alcohol I ran Kate and I apologize for the pain that I'd caused

and I closed my eyes and I just thought this is it this is it I won't hurt anyone anymore you know I won't bring any more pain and maybe I'll stop hurting to The rest was a blur. I remember sirens and stuff. And I just then remember being in hospital and I could hear voices.

And I remember thinking, is this it? I might, you know, where am I? And something changed then. And it was really powerful because I realized I couldn't hate myself any more than I had. And I couldn't try and stop being gay. anymore. I've done everything with my power. It's my whole life creating a different world that I thought everyone wanted me to be and take all the boxes. But I knew I had to reveal the truth. And so in that moment, it was really quiet. It wasn't dramatic. But I just

remember thinking, well, what about if I just surrender? What about if I'm just gay and I just be that and I don't really know where to begin with it and I don't know where it's going to leave me but it has to be better than what I've been doing and in that moment something changed I decided to live and I think that's the moment where I went back to that eight year old boy standing at the window and allowed himself to be seen that was the beginning of it all really so although it was one of the darkest nights of my life I think it was a turning point And like I say, it's not something I take lightly. I think it's not something I've ever spoken about.

But I hope other people in watching this can maybe feel heard or seen and find the help they need, or even maybe it's a parent that is struggling, understanding their child to understand how dark it can be when you're left in silence and when you don't get to express who you truly are. Or even if it's the kid that did the bullying at school and see how painful it can be for someone. Yeah, Chris, thank you for sharing that because it's... I just didn't feel like I could write a book talking about my story. I think there's this perception of me that people see on social media and it looks like my life together. It looks

like I look pretty polished. I think people tell me that, you know, I mean, I work with amazing women, you know, and life looks glamorous. And from the outside, it probably looks like I've got it all together. But there's a very different side. And that's what I want to talk to people about and that's what I want to help people with. And it's not just about my journey. It's about helping people realize theirs. Yeah, no, I really appreciate you sharing it because we're seeing now suicide rise. Yeah. We know that carrying around emotions like shame and guilt for long periods of time is not healthy for someone, even if they don't, you know, try to commit suicide. And I think having people like yourself who've been there who are open enough to share how you

get there and it's needed right now. It's needed right now. Help a lot of men, right now. A lot of people, but definitely a lot of men right now who need it as well. And I think also just like stereotypes and boxes that we love to put people in. It's like you don't have to fit a particular mold. I think you are who you are and you should have time and space to develop that and what it is. And I'm someone that spent my life trying to avoid that. And then I had to do the really painful part of them picking it and finding out what I'd created for everyone else. And what was truly me. When I did that, there was a piece to it.

Were you relieved when you woke up in the hospital? Yeah, I mean, I don't think I ever wanted to die. I wanted to kill the thing that I felt was destructing my life. And the thing that made me feel different as a kid, the thing that made me not blend in with all the other boys and girls, like I wasn't like all the regular guys. And I wanted to not be different. Now I love being different.

You know, as an adult now, I've realized the beauty and being different is such a special thing to be able to have that talent to be different. to let it grow. And when it's not suppressed, my God, like, the whole world can change. My whole world really did change. And it can be such a beautiful thing. And I'm not talking about success. I'm talking about inner happiness. There's a lot of successful people out there and they're not happy, you know, a lot of people, some unsuccessful people and they're not happy. I think true happiness on the inside is really, I don't know, it's a really powerful tool. How did your family react to obviously coming to the hospital, the kids? Like now it was

almost like there was in that time the first shock that you're gay and then there's this shock of nearly losing you or there being a critical situation. How did you, how did Katie the kids and family really? Yeah, I think there was really ever an understanding. I don't think anyone really knew. I think everyone was just trying to get through it because everyone was trying to process it themselves. I think everyone had questions and everyone's like, well, did he always know? And like, was that my fault? And did I say something when he was a kid? And when I told him about like gay men and sexuality and I think a lot of people were questioning, I don't know, did they know, did they see something? And I think everyone was just trying to process something. It didn't really matter to me

in terms of like, that was the time I came back to myself. So there was a change in my brain where I really just was like, I'm going to allow myself to be and I'm going to be respectful of everyone else and I'm going to be supportive because it's just who I am. But I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be. I'm going to allow Chris to be and I'm a gay man and that's it. And I imagine at that time, the shame that had been hanging over, obviously the kids went back to school. They were now hearing the same stuff. It's almost like you said everyone wants the answer to the secret. Now the secret's out. Totally. People love a secret. People love gossip. You know, I get it. Like, we all do it. Everyone loves, oh, what did you hear? You know, but I think once the

secret's out, people are like, oh, well, you know, it's just not as exciting. It's like, all right, well, and so you felt that kind of, you were able to move on from it, too. Absolutely. And listen, it wasn't an overnight sense. It was just a mental change for me. I still had to go through the process. What was that process like? Because it's like, like you said, you bottled it up for that many years. It comes out in this extremely dark way for you personally. Shame, guilt. Thankfully, you're still alive. Yeah. But what did that process actually look like? Because like you just said, and I don't want anyone to hear this and go, yeah, oh, wow, one night. Just change, you know, like, I don't want them to have that perspective either because that isn't true from the book.

and I'm excited for people to read. I'm encouraging people to read the book. Yeah. Because I think when they engage with it and you're sharing of it, they'll get the context that you won't be able to realize, like this wasn't an overnight change. It wasn't a one-night switch. 100%.

But walk me through the process you had to go through over the next few months and years to rebuild because you said you almost came home to yourself. Totally. But then you had to build this new house. Like anything, starting. anything new, it's the unknown. And so I think I took every day as it came, every hour as it came. I've always been a big believer in therapy. I think it's so helpful to be able to,

and I also think it's something that if someone is struggling, that if you can and you have the resources too, you should use because I think it's a really healthy way of being able to be and really be in the moment and really feel things. And I think working with therapists to trying to understand, even making sure my kids were okay with them seeing a therapist, and Kate did. You know, I think everyone was on their own journey, but personally for me, it was just taken every day as it came, and there were good days, and there were bad days. And there were days I still felt really shameful. And there were days I didn't feel so shameful. But I think, as with anything, and when you're grieving something, and I really was grieving a loss, because I was

grieving the loss of who I used to be. And so in a way, it was like a death, because I was letting go of that. I was letting go of this image that I created, this man. that I'd created. And what came with that, man, the family. Exactly. And so then I had to, you don't have it all figured out. I'll be honest with you though, Jay. I still don't have it all figured out.

I wake up every day and I'm still figuring out. I think as humans we are. I'm grateful for that because that means I'm always learning and I'm always growing. And if I'm growing, then that makes me feel happy because I'm alive. You know, no one ever has it all figured out. Me too. I fully agree. I don't, I mean.

People think because you've got a book or because you've had some success at work or, you know, you got it all figured out. no one's got it all figured out yeah but i think for me i've always been really interested in other people's journeys of inspiration and understanding how someone else took on and listen my journey is not for everyone everyone's different and everyone has their own journey but sometimes you can just take something from it and you know for me that's why i did the book was i was trying to help people come back to themselves and um i don't think i can do that if i'm not telling them my story yeah you know to say, I had a really dot moment too.

A lot of people have had dot moments, you know. But it's brave and important to share it. And it's one of the reasons why I've been talking about the difference between Western and Eastern ideologies because in the West you have this before and after. So it's like, I used to be like this, now I'm healed, I'm fit, I'm amazing. And the reality is the Eastern worldview would say everything's cyclical.

You're always two steps forward, three steps back. 100%. You're always maintaining. You're always sustaining. you don't just, it's almost like you don't just end up with a six-pack. It's like that's something that takes daily work. One week is there, and the next week, I'm like, what happened? Yeah.

And that's something that's physical that you can see and it's tangible. 100%. What to speak of emotional grieving and growth. And so that idea of before and after, it doesn't really exist. Because it's like before what and after what. 100%. The reality is you're constantly growing each and every one of us, and me included too. I think even with the work I do, I definitely carry that baggage sometimes of people thinking

I'm teaching from the place of perfection. And it's like, well, I'm not trying to, yeah. It's like, actually, I'm trying to do the opposite. I'm just trying to be a friend who's nudging you in the right direction. And by the way, I do this as much for you as I do it for me. Because the more I talk about these ideas, the more, and I'm sure you felt that with your book, the more you're talking about these ideas, the more responsible you feel to actually live them and breathe them for yourself.

And honestly, I feel like if there was something like this, when I was a kid, when I was that eight-year-old kid or a 12-year-old kid at school, and I heard someone maybe talking about that experience, probably could have saved me going in the direction I did and made other choices, you know, but that's life. I'm doing some research for my new book right now and I was researching the, I was speaking to the head of suicide at Harvard. Yeah.

And he told me two things that stayed with me. One was that one of his friends committed suicide, even though he knew his friend was the head of suicide at Harvard, but never told him anything. And so it just shows how hard it is to even talk about it with someone, even though your friend is an expert. Yeah. And so just because you're a therapist or a coach or a guide or it's not easy for people

to open up about these things. No, I've found it incredibly difficult to sort of just talk about it, but I hope that in doing so that it will help someone else. And it's not to say any of the things I've done or right or wrong, but it was my journey and it led me to where I'm at now. And I think if you can take some of the shame away from people struggling in life, and I think someone like me where people perceive me, to have it all figured out, maybe to know that I've not, and there's been some really hard times

in my life, enables people to be able to talk about theirs too and feel free to be able to express them at that. And there isn't so much shame around it. Yeah, it doesn't make you weak. Yeah, it doesn't make you weak that you're having a tough time right now or you're struggling to pay the bills or you're struggling to take care of the family you love. And everyone's challenge is different, you know, and that's the beautiful thing of life. Did any men come back from your childhood over time that you feel reconciled their relationship with you or you mean like the bullies or whatever or bullies or even yeah bullies family like anyone that you think was negligent maybe or unaware at that time did did you ever have any good conversations

with any men as life went on my brother actually is actually recently we were very different he was in a very different place in his life and I was just a kid trying to grow up you know he was a good 10 years older than me, maybe 12 years older than me. He actually met me in London. I was there for some shoot and he said, I wanted to meet him. I'm all right, well, okay. So we met and had dinner. And he actually apologized and he sat down and he said, you know, I was really shit to you. I was really shitty, brother. And I don't think I realized how much pain you were in. And I think he was in his own pain because everyone's got their own journey. And, you know, I found forgiveness in that. I found forgiveness. And it was actually really,

really special. Like I say, that's what I mean. It wasn't an overnight thing. This is literally 10 years later, like my brothers, while I joined it, but I also am mature enough and have done the work enough to recognize that he was going through a difficult time. He used drugs and he was going through his own thing. But, you know, his sort of acknowledgement of that still stopped me in my tracks and was like, yeah, that was tough, but I forgive you. And I think forgiveness is also a beautiful thing and letting go and moving on. Yeah. I like to move on. I like to go write through something and then let it go. And I think that's a beautiful thing. It's brutal. It's really hard. So easy to avoid. So many people avoid stuff. Complete avoid and completely just

let's pretend it's not happening. But for me, what works is to really feel it and sit in it. Because then I feel like I can let it go. Yeah. I mean, it's really mature to have that worldview of recognizing that everyone's going through their journey and their pain at the same time as you are. Yeah. And it's really hard to compare pains because you can't. They're all so unique. And everyone's valid. Yeah, everyone's got their own journey. But to accept that requires a lot of maturer in depth.

But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show. Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget. I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from Hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, book talkers, and more to explore the stories that shape us,

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This podcast is for you. Listen to bookmarked by Reese's book club on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Radi DiVlucia and I'm the host of a really good cry podcast and I have the opportunity to talk to Logan Yuri. Logan is a dating expert,

a behavioral scientist, a bestselling author and someone who is seriously changing the way we think about love and dating. In our conversation, we talk all things dating that Logan has studied and tested from what to put in your dating profile, the pictures you should and shouldn't be using, to the conversation starters that actually work. And the huge no-noes that people probably do not realize are reducing their chances of success on apps. Whether you're single, dating, or just trying to be more intentional in love, Logan offers the kind of clarity we all need. Relationships do require work. And the best relationships are people who really work on them together.

They're so focused on if I find the perfect person, then I'll have the perfect relationship instead of understanding really that they can choose someone great and then build that relationship together. They don't need to keep searching for perfection. Listen to a really good cry on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. American history is full of wise people. What women said something like, you know, 99.99% of war is diarrhea and 1% is gory.

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this proves that Hamilton is for a dictator based on, corruption. My favorite line was what Neil Armstrong said. It would have been harder to fake it than to do it. Listen to American History Hotline on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. How does it feel now that you've said it out loud and talked about it? How does that feel in your chest heart? I mean, probably as you could tell as I was talking, I was getting quite tight chest. If I ever even really talked about it, my chest would get very tight. I'm grateful for that.

I hope I never get used to it because it was a very extreme thing in my life. And I'm an emotional guy. I love the people I love. But I've learned not to feel shame anymore. And I think part of dealing with shame is being able to talk about it, being able to acknowledge it, being able to look at it in the mirror. And I felt like sharing that is empowering. to me and hopefully others, I feel lucky to be able to share my journey with other people. Hopefully, you know, someone finds it interesting or can give them a different perspective on

their day and in their life. And I've done that in like an outward sense of a visual with people know that with my job. But I think the internal part is just really where it starts. Because when you marry those together, that's when you have your real power. I mean, as we've been talking about this in this journey, that none of us are perfect and it still shows up. How does shame still show up in your life today? Like, how does it still have that stronghold in your life? I woke up this morning. I'm like, I cannot talk about that. I can't talk about that on the podcast. Had this complete, like, oh, my God, I can't talk. People are going to think I'm crazy. Like, that was a really dark time and it was a secret. It's a secret. And then

I'd stop myself and I'm like, ah, it's a secret. It doesn't need to be. I'm not that person. anymore. No one is the people that we were in that time. We've all moved on and evolved. And I'm in a better place in my life now. And I think with wisdom comes, you know, like you being able to educate people and share people. That's like me in my hairdressing career, learning all these amazing techniques, keeping all to myself. And everyone has said to me before, like, you really want to show your techniques. People might copy you. And I'm like, God, I hope they do. I hope they have great hair. You know, everyone deserves it. I'll think of some new techniques. I'm on to the next thing. Yeah. I mean, look, we're human beings.

Like I said, none of us have it figured out. But I also have great people around me that be like, Chris, remember you helping others? And I'm like, yeah, that's what I want to do, you know. As your journey grew, did you share these stories with clients and talk to people that you were close to? No one really knows this about me today. So I think probably a lot of people might, you know, be like, okay, I didn't know that part of you.

Because let's face it, in human interaction, most of the time, it's a hi, how are you look great, you know, can go, oh, yeah, and then we move on. we don't always open up the blinds and you know pull people in because it's difficult to do that you know even on social media people say to me oh you know you look like you have this polished social media you bring people in more it's difficult sometimes to do that when it's a camera in front of you and I think I've always been very one-on-one that's what I do but that's why I wanted to package it up and put it into something that people could read and take in themselves I want to know what happened because this was all still while you were back home in England yeah

And so this isn't even the career journey that we see now. That hadn't even began then in terms of the public part of it. How soon after did you end up moving to America and did everything shift? I stayed in, I moved to America when I was 31, so it was four years later. And during that time, I'd started to travel backwards and forwards. I was kind of commuting backwards and forwards. I started working with an artist and, you know, they travel around. I was kind of doing different types of hairdressing work.

I remember I got a call once. I was in London and I had an email actually that came through and it was from J-Lo's team. And I remember thinking, oh, wow. But it was too much to kind of take in. I was like, are you available? We wanted to see if Chris Appleton was available for a Vegas show. And I was like, oh, that's interesting.

And then I thought, well, how does J-Lo know who I am? It was at the beginning of social media. and I was posting not really know what I'm doing but I was just posting all the different hair styles I was doing so I guess when I look back my brand quite quickly was apparent I was always changing up I'm not your beachy wave kind of guy I like to do a look do the next one move on that's next I was very excited by hair and I was just posting all that

so I kind of thought well that's cool but I'm in England and that's Hollywood I was like the land of dreams you know it's far far far away and they weren't going to fly me out so I was all right well I just left it And I thought, maybe this is just like a, maybe it's like a fake email. You know, you get a lot of random emails. Hey, do you say, madam, you've won $10,000? And I'm like, oh, have I?

You know, I don't reply into them anymore. But when I was younger, I used to. So I left it. And a few months later, I got another email. I thought, well, maybe this is a thing. Maybe, like, maybe I could go to L.A. You know, it seemed like the big shining star. And I was where a lot of stars are.

And I loved the excitement. And as a kid, I was always really sort of mesmerized by the power of transformation. Like then it was Madonna, you know, she would have a different look per album and I always loved how each look really, it started a trend, people would start to wear it in the streets and it was like a whole vibe. So I thought, well, maybe I go to L.A. So I pretty much decided to do it. I packed two suitcases. I had a whole apartment in London that I'd worked very hard for. A small basement one, but nevertheless it was mine. And I packed two suitcases and I moved to L.A. and um without even a plans no i had a dream though no nothing i had a dream man i was i was like how many followers did you have at this time four or five thousand that i right right oh wow so really early days yeah really early days but i did have a hope and i i felt what's the worst

that could happen i'll come back if it doesn't work so i remember i uh i moved to america and for the first three or four months i didn't do anything i'd spent all my money at least really expensive and i remember thinking i'm going to have to go back home and then i got a call call to do Christina Guilera's hair on the voice, which I speak a little bit about in the book. It was an experience that didn't go so well. It was like my one opportunity and it seemed to go very wrong. You felt you didn't. It went wrong to go right. I mean, I was such an excited guy. I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do my thing. It's the voice. Everyone watches the voice. But we have to understand is when you live in the UK, it's like this many

people see it. When you live in the US, it's like the world sees it. It just, it was just, it was bigger. Everything was bigger. And I remember going to the voice and there was like three hours to do glam. And the makeup artist went in inside the trailer and I just sat outside. So I was like, okay, I'll just wait for a bit. And then I went by and I was like, well, maybe she don't need too much done to her hair, you know. And then two hours went by and I'm like, well, maybe like the hair's probably done and I'm just going to be finessing it, you know. And then the last 20 minutes before the live show, I'm like, well, I mean, so I just go home. and they called me in.

So I thought, well, you know, she's definitely got her hair done. It's going to be good, right? 20 minutes. I mean, what else can it be? So I'll go in and it wasn't good. It wasn't done. It was ready to be doing. So she's like, what do you want to do?

And I was like, well, what I really want to do is have two hours to do your hair. But whatever, we got 20 minutes. Were they waiting for you to go in or no? No, I think she was just like doing makeup, probably got chatting. And there was no ill intention or anything. It was just like, whatever, you know, like you're in the chair every day, you know. And then I went in, I don't know. So I did that thing that headwrests do

where you stopped moving the hair around. Have you ever sat in a chair and a headdress is kind of like, they're just kind of touching it and moving around. It means we don't know what we're doing. We're kind of just like hoping something's going to happen. So I said to her, like, would you, have you ever tried a wig?

Because I thought that would be great because it'd be fast. And she's like, I don't like wigs. Sometimes I don't like wigs. And then I really lost myself and I was like, why would you like anything I've got to do? Like, you see me. You see the little boy standing at the window. You see little Chris.

Like, what the fuck am I doing here? I'm a joke. I'm a joke. Like, why am I? And I felt like that shame again. And I felt small, so small. And I just had this moment. It was actually the mother of my kids, Kate, who we are still best friends.

And she has always been so supportive throughout my career. I called her on the way. And she said to me, look, Chris, if you don't make this work, you're going to have to come home. Because I have responsibility. I have my dad. I have the kids. You know, I remember to think if I don't make this work, I'm going to have to go home.

So I thought, you know what? Let me do me. And if she doesn't like it, that's cool, which is not a match. But if I don't do me and do everything I know, I'm 31, I've spent my whole life learning this craft. If I don't do me and walk away, I'll always kick myself. So I said, you know what? You never tried my wigs.

Let's try it. She was, all right. So I put it on ahead. And she was like, oh. And I'd finessed wigs. I got really good at them because I used to work with cancer patients. So on all these little tricks. I kind of like from one area of my life then turned into making me good at it for stars.

And so I put it on ahead. And there was no time. She was like, I like I like it. So I put it on. It was like no time. She literally got up and ran off onto the show. And then she's on live TV. And you know, that was a time of social media because I was also very nervous because

I was like, well, everyone's going to have an opinion on this. And when it's good, it's great. And when it's bad, it's not. Yeah. Because when it's bad, you'll know about it. But when it's good, it's okay. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Yeah. And it's bad. It's bad. So I remember she came off the stage and it was like a little break. And she was talking to someone like this. And she looked over at me and she went, everyone likes your wig and then just carried on talking

and in that moment I knew that it was great like she looked great and then we worked together you know as the beginning and my career I don't want people to think I am being arrogant

in telling that story because I would put so much of my whole life into my craft I wanted to learn it inside out upside down left to right I knew every aspect of hair

for me to be able to be able to stand there and know that it was the right thing to do. I wasn't being pushy or anything. I just knew that this was right. And therefore, if it didn't work, it's like a relationship. If it didn't work, it's okay. Yeah. I tried. If I don't do what I know to be true and good, then I'll always kick myself and I'd hate that. And I think part of my coming out story and, you know, seeing my full self again was not ever letting myself not be seen. And, you know, I wanted to present as I was and

the knowledge I knew. And that was, it was a success story in it. And that was the beginning in my career in Hollywood. It just rolled on. Once people saw her hair, because we did this kind of really icy wig, and then I did these hoops in her hair, and then I started working with Ariana, and then Kim and then Adele, and it was J-Lo, and it just, KT. Perry, it just evolved, you know, who's doing that? Who's, cool, you know, pop stars or artists, I like to change her hair up, so it's like, okay, so it was very fast. That was very fast, but I was very prepared because I'd spent 31 years in my life learning it. It's really interesting because I'll tell you later, I have a very similar story of, because when I first moved out here,

everyone was asking me to teach them how to meditate or coaching them or guiding them spiritually on their life. And so I was meeting a lot of people. And our work, funnily enough, is similar, even though it's very different. It's very intimate. It's very one-on-one. 100%. You're really present in someone's life.

Yeah. And I had a similar experience. But the thing I found as well was if I was trying to be what they wanted me to be, I couldn't be that. I just knew how to do what I do. Yeah. And that's really hard when you feel inexperienced. You feel like an imposter.

Yeah. And you feel like you don't belong here, which is how I felt too. Totally, which we all feel. Which we all feel. Even when you have success or whatever, you know. Yeah. And you come and you're like, oh no, but this is a bigger world. It's a different world and it's different eyeballs.

And then you're just like, no, actually, I have to trust the work that I've done up until now. And that doesn't make me egotistic. Totally. It just makes me experienced. Totally. I've got to trust the experience I have. 100%. And most importantly, it makes me me me.

So I loved that message from your experience there, which was, if you hadn't done the wig, it would have just looked terrible. Yeah, totally. Because you wouldn't have been able to do anything with it in that time. Exactly. And so you had to trust your instincts, which was my experience says, let's go with the wig. Yeah, totally. Yeah, that's amazing.

And then obviously, you became such good friends with Kim and everyone. It's like, what's been your favorite part about building these amazing relationships? Because the work is so intimate. It is so connected to them. I'm so grateful to work with everyone I've worked with. I always just feel very lucky to work in their presence because they're amazing on what they do. You know, they're an artist in their own. And to be a part of it, I just feel very grateful.

And, you know, Kim, I've become very good friends. We have so much respect to her up close, to see, you know, the world sees one thing. They see Kim Kardashian. And I don't really see her like that. She is Kim, you know, and she is a mother, an amazing mother. She is a businesswoman, you know, to see what she did with skims and build that. And just to see how she is with everyone that walks in the door, you know, she speaks to, whether it's an assistant, a lighting person,

she says hello to everyone, introduces herself. She doesn't have to, but she's just a great person. Yeah, she's world-class. A really, really great person. And so I think organically, you spend so much time together with the people you work with. Obviously, there's a friendship there. And I'm just incredibly grateful I've got to work with the people I do and, you know, see them in the light I do.

Because I guess not everyone does. Because, again, we all make assumptions. Everyone's just seen a vision or an image or a quick clip on TV or a clip here on social media. and we all make assumptions is what we do. It's okay, but I just feel grateful to we've seen a side that maybe others haven't. Yeah, I'm sure you get people asking all the time. What are people like, really?

I'm sure you get that all the time from people back at home as well. Like, oh, what are people really like behind the camera? And it's, I always find it so refreshing to be able to be like, no, a lot of the people you watch are actually really wonderful and nice. There isn't some big conspiracy. You know, it's just, they're just wonderful humans who are really nice and they're really great at what they do. Yeah, what they do. And yeah, they treat everyone with respect and it and it isn't as juicy as you want it to be. No, totally. Yeah. So with your

journey, with that piece, it feels like, I mean, you said it earlier, you were like it only gets harder. Yeah. And it feels like even though now you were having this success and that was moving fast and you have become the person you've become where you are the go-to person in the city, but across the States for all of these people to turn to, whether they're politicians, models, talent. And then I think now it's been like just a year from your divorce again. And that was with a very public relationship. Was that the first time you'd had a public relationship? It was definitely the first time that I'd experienced that magnitude of people have been so invested in my private life. What was it like having such a public romantic relationship

as someone who, for years before that, let alone having a public relationship, you weren't even in a relationship with a man. This is the first time I've ever spoke about this. And I think people have this perception from social media. Probably like I said, I have it together. I work with these amazing people. Life looks glamorous.

So from the outside, it probably looks like I got it all together. But the truth is, especially during that time, I was going through a lot of private pain. And then you go with all the online speculation part. People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid and people that have an opinion on your life. And that can be incredibly intense, especially when you're just trying to deal with things. I think for me, what really helped me was not being okay.

And, you know, I've always believed in therapy and I work with a therapist to really sit in my feelings. and really go through them and understand how I felt. And that is really brutal to go through it. But for me, coming out the other side, there's a part of you that feels like you can, you know, reflect on it and move on. One of the biggest lessons I learn is finding alignment. From what I do is all about visual, you know,

it's what I've done my whole life. And even what people see of me is this visual representation of Chris Appleton. But I think for me, there was a real piece in finding alignment and inner peace on the inside. And like I said, that wasn't an easy process, but I think when you align those two, when you genuinely feel good on the inside, I think that's when your real power comes in place. And I think, you know, just because there's a headline about you doesn't necessarily mean you have to go and explain to everyone about your life. And I think for me, I really wanted to deal with it with peace and deal with it my way. You know, it's the interesting

thing about living in the public eye is people have an opinion. And that's okay. I don't mind people saying good and bad things because you put yourself out into the arena, you're going to get that. But I think for me as a dad, I wanted to protect my kids. I always want to do that. And I'm very aware any relationship I go into, there will be a conversation around that. And so I think for me, making sure that I had that internal alignment, which I never had my whole life. Finding that and being comfortable with that and finding happiness was a really beautiful thing. And you know, you can love someone and then not be a forever happy ending. I think you learned so much from it.

I think any relationship I've ever gone into, I've learned so much from it. I've learned what's important to me in terms of boundaries, in terms of how I want to be loved, how I want to love. And that's a beautiful thing because it means you're always growing and evolving. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. Your entire identity has been fabricated. brother goes missing without a trace. You discover the depths of your mother's illness,

the way it has echoed and reverberated throughout your life, impacting your very legacy. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the profound and powerful stories I'll be mining on our 12th season of Family Secrets. With over 37 million downloads, we continue to be moved and inspired by our guests and their courageously told stories.

I can't wait to share 10 powerful new episodes with you, stories of tangled up identities, concealed truths, and the way in which family secrets almost always need to be told. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of family secrets. Listen to Family Secrets Season 12 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think Democrats have, for a very long time, allow Republicans to play them. So essentially, Republicans came up with a narrative

and Democrats decided to play into that and that only hurt the Democrats. I'm Kitty Couric. Jasmine Crockett, Democratic Representative of Texas, is not known for holding back. And our recent chat on Next Question is no exception. But when you hear how she got to where she is, her intensity makes perfect sense.

It's just hard to imagine a world where you don't have enough people that care to do right by people. And so that same passion that carried me through as a public defender that led me to want to change laws and thinking about the harm that will happen not just to my constituents, but just generally, like, I carry that weight with me because you've seen it up close. Close. Yeah. Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, everyone. It's Janae, aka Cheekies from Cheekies and Chill Podcasts. And I'm launching an all new mini podcast series called Sincerely Jeannay. Sure, I'm a singer, author, businesswoman, and podcaster. But at the end of the day, I am human. And that's why I'm sharing my ups and doubts with you guys. Hi, guys. I was sitting here, uh, recording episodes.

of Dear Cheekies and Cheekies and Chill and I just had to take a time out and purge my thoughts and feelings here on Sincerely Jeannay because I've been so emotional lately, you guys. Whether I'm in my feels, I've just had a breakthrough with my therapist or I've just had a really deep conversation

with my siblings or I'm in glam getting ready for an award show. I'm sharing my most intimate thoughts with you on the podcast. You guys know I always keep it real with you guys but this time I'm taking it to the next level. Listen to Cheekies and Chill on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now back to the discussion.

It was you who filed for divorce, right? Like you were the one who ended it. Yeah. When you look at that in the perspective of the whole conversation that we've had and everything you've been through, I can imagine that's not easy again. No, but I think, again, like, it doesn't mean you don't lie in something about yourself. and just because it's not forever, doesn't mean it didn't mean something. And it's a bit like going to buy a house.

Like, you know, we could go and look at houses. I particularly like bright, lots of space. I don't like confined and dark. Some people do. And that's okay. It's just not aligned. And I think one of the biggest things I realized about any relationship I've been into

or go into is the importance of alignment. And I think for a long time I didn't have that. And I think finding that within myself, has been special. It's about growth. And like I say, as long as I'm growing and evolving, then I'm alive and that feels great. Why do you think you didn't have that alignment maybe when you met? Because it moved fast, right? Look, moving fast doesn't always mean you're reckless. I think sometimes it means you're hopeful. And I think any relationship I've ever been into, I've gone into with an open heart. And I have no regrets about that. I think we shame people

too much for leading with an open heart. And I think the sad part about that, especially when it doesn't work out. And I think the sad part about that is you can learn to retract and protect yourself. But I would rather love and fall than to never feel anything at all. And I think I'd rather experience something and feel alive than to never put my foot out in the water. And I think as long as you're growing and evolving from it and things don't always go to plan, I think as long as you go through it and go through the process of healing, I think that's really important, then I think you're doing all you can. I don't know. I feel like I felt like a responsibility to just really look at everything. As any situation I've ever been in, I've always tried to look

back and reflect of like, do I feel like I'm happy with where I'm at my life, how it is visually and how I feel internally? And, you know, if not, being able to sit in that and sit with it and process it and go through it has been a really magical part because it doesn't really matter what anyone else says. I know my truth and I feel happy. I really value the people that are in my life. I have an amazing family. I've worked really hard for my career. I love the people. I've supported family and I'm really grateful for that. And ending doesn't mean it, it didn't mean anything. It just means it ended, you know. As many relationships I've been through in my life, friendships, relationships, they've ended and I've tried to learn something each time from that

experience. Yeah, I really appreciate your take on not closing off and not kind of building a wall to, and you are right, we do make people feel bad for falling in love or moving fast or whatever it may be. And I think also coming from a South Asian culture, I've seen the dangers of demonizing divorce. Yeah. And looking at divorce as a failure or a negative thing when actually I look at my community and I'm like I wish this person would get divorced and this person because because you know the truth and when they open up to you and and so it's almost it's interesting we've made people feel bad for maybe opening their heart and falling in love and we also make people feel bad for and I get it like I get

it and people love to say like oh I knew you know that would happen and that wouldn't last but I don't know it's just who I am yeah go in wholeheartedly into every friendship every relationship, you know, every family member. And I've learned to protect myself and also honor myself. Like I say, I keep mentioning in alignment, but it really is a key part of like my healing is to be able to leave a situation when it's not right anymore. Yeah. Why did it feel again important for you to talk about it now as part of this journey with the book?

I think there's just always, I think every part of my life, if there's something in the tabloid or people want to know, I think, I would like to sort of share my experience so people can relate or maybe not feel so alone. My biggest goal is to make people realize that it doesn't matter where you came from. It doesn't matter what the situation was that you got stuck in. You can move on. You can evolve your life and you can have your comeback at any age. At any age, it's never too late.

So many people think it's too late. They're not 20. They think they're done. And I think, I don't know, some things are for a season and some things are forever. that's life. Life is life. Love is messy. People are complicated. We all bring our old trauma and baggage into a relationship, whether you're willing to admit it or not. And like I said, that that's just life. It's about alignment. And if something's not aligned, it's okay. Whether it's a relationship or a friendship or a marriage or whatever it is in your life. I think so many people get

so fearful of not moving on or change. Change is so scary to people. I know by just people changing their hair, how terrifying that would be. They're like, well, people are going to recognize me or people are going to. I'm like, yeah, that's great. See, a new you. See, actually a you that's, this is actually going to be great for you. You have a whole new look. You could have been stuck with that old hairstyle that you showed me a minute ago, a whole life. You know what I mean? Like, thank God to watch. Yeah, no, thank God. Yeah, literally. You know, it's like, but if you don't know, you don't know. At the time, I bet you thought you were killing her. I thought I was.

I straight in my hair. Why do you straighten your hair? Because someone told me to. Yeah, beautiful natural texture. Someone bringing you back to that. Like, I don't know, it kind of helps you form who you are. Whereas maybe you can form to society because society said you should straighten curly hair. I don't know what the answer was.

But we're all conditioned to that, following the lead and following the pack. And you don't always have to do that. Yeah. To not do that, you have to have some balls. And like I think part of finding that strength is to be able to sit with yourself. And I can honestly say any situation now that I'm ever in. I can sit with myself and I can process it. And it's not always easy.

In fact, doing the work is brutal. It's never easy. But the last thing I feel like I need to do is tell everyone. Because it's my journey. It's my story. And when I'm ready, which is why I'm doing the book now, you know, you can share it. How did you protect your peace at the time? because I imagine it's not easy when you're going through it

headlines whether you take them seriously or react or not they still hurt and everyone's asking you know and I know what it feels like where you're sometimes I find that when you also have family that's not connected to the industry I'll always get a load of messages as well from back home from friends and family going oh I just saw this thing about you know whatever I just saw and I'm like guys like I'm dealing with it

like you know this is normal in my world now but it's not normal for them no and I can find that that's sometimes. Was there any, was there any of that feeling of that kid looking out the window? Like, was that any of that coming back through this as well? Or how did you protect your peace at that time? I think there's a lot of private pain, like I say, no one is immune to it. But I think for me working with, like, I have an amazing therapist I've always worked with, and I'm so pro-photherapy. Is it the same person that you wrote through the whole time?

Yeah. Wow. For how many years? Maybe the last, it was since I moved to America, so nine years. Wow. that's impressive and for me therapy just enables you to like sit in it therapy really helps you to do that and therapy really helps you to move on and let go of situations that you know no longer serve you so it's been around two years now yeah where's your headspace at now i think i just feel grateful to have had the experiences of having my life and to have the knowledge and the wisdom to be able to process them and let go of it and move on. And I think with every chapter of my life, I'm so grateful I had that each and every experience good and bad

because it led me to where I'm like now. I think I'm in a good place, not every day, but more so than I ever have been in my life where I've abandoned myself. And it's such an easy thing to do. And I'm just so aware of doing that now. It's like I can't not see it. Once you see yourself, you know how many people look in the mirror every day? You look in the mirror maybe, I think the average is 12 times a day. They say on average it's an hour a day from brushing

your teeth to, you know, checking your hair, whatever it is, having your hair cut. An hour of your day looking yourself in the mirror, so many people see a reflection. Not everyone looks at themselves. We just look, but no one actually really looks. And part of my job and my journey has been, I guess, showing people a real mirror so people can really see themselves and be seen. and a lot of people are not seen and when you really see people and you break it down to like why have you always done this? Why have you always repeated this behavior? Why have you always got yourself into the same situation? Why have you got yourself into the same relationship? There's a pattern to it. Once you see the pattern and once you break it down, you can change it.

That's really empowering. I did it with hair for a long time, but I didn't realize I was also doing it in an internal way. And everyone can relate to that people saying, you're hair dress as your therapist. I didn't even know I was doing that. It's such a real statement. The difference is I used to do it with everyone else and I'd see them and you know what? Never saw myself. I didn't see myself for 27 years in my life. I didn't allow myself to look. It was easier to make other people see themselves and for me to look at myself. When I saw myself, I couldn't not see it anymore. I couldn't not see who I was and who I'd become. And that defining moment of my life changed every decision moving forward. And so if I'm a bad friendship, if I'm in a bad relationship, if I'm

in a bad work environment, I'll leave it if it no longer serves me. And if I feel like I've done everything I can to be the best person I can, and no one's perfect, humans are messy. That's okay. But I've learned to respect myself enough to be able to go back to that little boy at the window and say, it's okay. You know, you don't have to be in that anymore. You don't have to feel alone. you can be seen and I hope that's what everyone does and maybe finds a bit of that when they read the book and obviously it's called your roots don't define you it's about roots and it's a double-edged sword but it is such a powerful thing that if you actually stand and look in the mirror and look at yourself this book is for anyone that looks back and is like is this it or anyone that looks

in the mirror and is like I don't really know why I look the way I look or Anyone that does have some success, but it's so miserable, or some more times just people thinking there must be more to life, hopefully this will help people feel like they can change that and they can have their comeback. And they can transform not only the way they look on the visual, because everyone knows I do that. But if they can do it internally, I'm telling you now, their life will change. And I hope people can take what I learn because I feel like everyone deserves to be free. You know, I see people in the supermarket, I see people walking in the street, and I'm like, I wish you knew what I knew, you know. And I think it's just really special to be able to share that journey. What do you see in the mirror now when you look in the mirror? You see yourself. It depends on the day. Some days, it's all right. And other days, you know, like, I'm still like, wow, I really should lose five pounds. So my hair look better blonde. You know, you read a comment on social media, like, you look way better blonde. And I'm like, oh, I have a better blonde. You know, it's all right. We all have those oysters in the head. I hope they're all. always there. It keeps me alive. I just laugh at myself now. I think I try and treat most things with humor. You know, if I do see a headline about myself or if I do see someone say something, I'll

try and laugh it off because what else are you going to do? You know, it's like, I probably couldn't have done that before. If I went back 10 years, I probably couldn't do that. I probably would have gone crazy and been like, oh my God, now I'm like, it's okay. It's just someone else's opinion. That's all right. You know, I can actually laugh at it. I'm like, well, you know what? I probably do look a bit like I need to lose five pounds or I don't know I can relate to it or just at least laugh at it we were talking about red carpet pictures they can make you crazy you know like you think pretty good about yourself yeah I'm good you know I feel like I look good you take a picture of it is that what I look like oh man tell me about it oh my guy I saw this picture myself and I was like

head to toe in brown and for some reason the background was red and my hair was kind of the same color I look like a log and that you know it's this text chain where I'm texting my I'm like a log what the and I just laugh at it you know it's all right it's fine it's just nothing's perfect. You get over it after you realize there's more bad pictures of you and Getty than good and then you go, I'm good with it. And that's the same with like a headline or whatever.

I'm like, it's all right. It's cool. You know, fine, whatever. I mean, it's not easy.

I'm not saying I laugh everything off at all. I'm a dad and my number one goal is to protect my kids, you know, because they're going to see everything. My family see everything. But I've also learned to be able to know that if I'm aligned, sometimes I have to go back to that align. and have to sit back in it, I'm okay.

Have the kids read the book? Have your kids? Yeah, they have. Well, I think it's kind of, for them, it's interesting because I'm dad. I think one of the proudest moments in my life is the fact that they have been through so much on this journey with me, but they can still look at me and call me dad proudly. And that means everything to me. And I don't want to have any secrets.

I want to share my journey with them. And as difficult as some of those topics are, I'd rather show them and say, that was really hard. And I moved on. And this is where I'm at now. And I didn't just move on because, like, it was easy. I moved on because I went through it and it was brutal.

And it was challenging. But do the work, you know, and it will lead you to a better place. We reached out to the kids and they sent us a note for you. that I thought. To my kids, really? And so there's one each. And I'm going to ask you, I haven't read them yet, so I'm going to hear them for the first time too. I can ask you to read Kitties Out Loud.

Okay. Can read it out for us because I've not read it either, so I wanted to save it for you. There are so many things I've wanted to say over the years, and sometimes I don't know how to put them into words. But today I just want to tell you how proud I am truly to be your daughter. You've been my example of strength, compassion and integrity for as long as I remember. For every chapter of life, you've shown up with grace and honesty. You've made sacrifices that I'll never fully understand, and you've given me love in a way that made me feel safe, valued and seen.

Even now watching you open your heart up and share your story to the world, I'm constantly inspired by your vulnerability and courage. And that's rare and a beautiful thing. You've given me so much more than I could ever thank for. Your love is shake me and your belief in me has carried through. I love you so much and I'm forever proud to be your daughter of Kitty. Oh, God. I'm shaking.

Oh, God, I don't know what to say. Oh, that's how you get me, my kid. It's, I'm just, I'm just so grateful that I have them and that they've been a part of this journey. And like I said, the biggest achievement of my whole life is that they can call me dad and say it with pride. Because it's been so many times I've felt proud of myself. And I have not been kind to myself. And I think a lot of people can relate to that abandonment of themselves. and yeah, having them is the greatest gift.

Beautiful letter and this one's from Billy. You know what? I remember that night telling them about, you know, being gay. It was, especially for a boy, there's so, it's kind of what guys say, you're gay, you're gay, it's always pinned as a bad thing. So I knew he was going to face so much going back to school of people talking and people whispering and people saying stuff to him. and they both have gone through so much

they never let me see because they knew I was going through my own pain. So like, you know, this means a lot. Okay, dear dad, where do I even start? One of my first memories as a kid is you dressing of a superman to surprise me on my birthday. I thought I'd just met my hero.

I didn't realize it then, but as I grew older, I came to see the real superhero. wasn't a costume, it was the man inside. He went from cutting hair in a small local salon to taking a massive leap and moving across the world with nothing and somehow across the chaos you built a life out there.

You work with Hollywood stars, become a businessman, appeared on TV and now even written a book. And through all of that, you're still the same guy who makes people laugh and lights up every room and who does everything he can to make the people around him happy. But what sticks with me the most

isn't just what you've accomplished, is what you've taught me. He's shown me how to be confident myself and not to care what other people think. And you've taught me how to stay motivated to reach for the stars. And most importantly, you've taught me how to be respectful, kind and caring. And be unproud to be on. Keep doing you, Dad. I love from being. Oh, God.

Wow. I'm nearly into just listening. It's so beautiful, man. Yeah. That's really special. it's amazing I feel so proud to have to raise two kids

who love you that much that's pretty special yeah I am but you know any parent listening knows that their only goal is to make sure

their kids grow up with the least amount of pain and we all know the harsh reality of life you know when you're a kid you're so innocent and life is so free and as we grow older

there's so much baggage for owners and I think the only thing you can do is trying to understand it. And I spent many of my years, like I said, trying to unpick what didn't belong to me and shake that off and shake that package off. And if I can save them, if I can save them having to go through some of the struggles I went through because I didn't allow myself to be, then I did okay with that, you know. All right, should move on.

I'm so, no, Chris, I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful to you for you know your time and energy writing this book I love about how you talk when people dive in they'll learn about the personal hater that we all have inside of us yeah they'll learn about how you talk about how shame lives in the shadows yeah they'll learn about this whole journey of what it means to make a comeback and um and also to realize that it's never too late yeah it really is never too late and sometimes we spend years of our life trying to figure that out but once you have that realization and hopefully the book will be that realization that it isn't too much late and maybe a few footsteps into going into the right direction to change things.

Chris, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. Okay. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence, maximum. Okay. So, Chris Appleton, this is your final five. Question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Live and let live. I think everyone's experience is different.

If there's one thing I've learned in this time on the earth is that everyone's going through something. Everyone has had heartache, everyone has had trauma and different baggage, and everyone is going through some things. I think to try and remember that and let people, you know, live and let live, you know, and be. We're so judgmental sometimes and we, like I said, love to put people in boxes. And that's something that we all do.

Yeah. If you're aware of it, you can understand and be more. forgiving towards people. My second question is what is the worst advice you've ever received? I guess stay in your lane. I think I've been told so much in my life to fit in a box. There's no boxes you need to fit in. Question number three, your favourite look you've ever done for Kim and Jaila? Easy. Kim's met ball. She did the Mugula look. It was like the Finger Waves look and Jailo Super Bowl. Everyone, I think unanimously, they tell me they're my favorite. But those are your favorites too.

They're everyone else's favorite. What are your favorite? I want to know what your favorites. Listen, I'm going against the grain. Everyone's going to come from me. But I love a blonde Kim. And taking her platinum was a whole thing. So probably a blonde Kim.

I love that. And then J.Lo. I don't know. I really like it when we did like a short, we did a short hairstyle for her on the cover of a law. And I loved it. Just because it was so different. I love seeing someone really take on a different character

and a different story and just try it out, you know, fearlessly. I love that. Question number four. What do you see when you look at the inner mirror now? So you told us you, on the outside, sometimes you're like, five pounds, blonde hair. Yeah.

But what does the inner mirror look like? I think I see a guy that doesn't always have it together, but absolutely tries his best to be the best version of himself, primarily to inspire my kids so that they can do the same. And now this book, so where people feel like they can share that journey with me. And I want to hear other people's stories. I want to hear other people's journey. My greatest pain growing up was that no one spoke.

No one spoke about it. No one spoke about their experience. And I think the more people to speak and share their stories and their journeys, the more we can all learn and accept and grow. Well said. Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. Yeah. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

My one law would be that everyone stops, looks in the mirror, and just says, is this enough? Is this what I wanted? Is this where I'm at? And if so, great. But at least just to stop and really look, how did we get to where we got? To realize that if you want to change, you can.

Because like I say, I've always done that with my hands and sitting in the chair. But I realized there was this whole world that people don't know about. But once you know, you can't unsee it. Chris Appleton, the book is called Your Roots Don't Define You. everyone who's been listening and watching. I cannot wait to see what you're taking away.

I want to see all the TikToks, the Instagram reels, the stories. I love seeing what you extract from these conversations, applying your own life. If you've had a friend or family member that you haven't even known what to say to because they've been on a similar journey, send this episode to them. I think it's going to help a lot of people on their personal journey of transformation and reflection and make sure you keep coming back, make sure you subscribe so that you never miss out on an episode because it's stories like this that we built this platform for where people can come and talk about the ups the downs, the real healing and what that actually looks like. And I highly

recommend you go and grab a copy of Chris's book. Your roots don't define you. It's available for pre-order right now as we're speaking. Chris, thank you again so much for trusting me, for trusting the platform. Thank you for what you do, Jay. I mean, so open and honest. It's a real privilege to be here and share it with you because I feel like you too have shared your journey and it's inspiring to a lot of people. So, you know, you're a big inspiration to me. So to be here is very honored. So thank you for your time. I genuinely have so much respect for you to be able to talk about some really, really difficult stuff. And I think in the world right now, this message is really, really needed. There's a lot of people that this book, this interview is going to help. And so thank you.

And I'm so grateful to you for using your platform to spread this message. You could talk about your life. You could teach people how to build a big brand. You could teach people to do so many things, but the fact that you've told them about your truth and how they can find theirs, it's a really beautiful offering and service. So thank you, Chris. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you, if you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child. You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, that is so unfair because that's not who I am. And that That really gets to me sometimes.

But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, but I know who I am, why does anything else matter? The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica. And I'm Mila. And we're the host of the Good Mom's Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Yeah, we're moms, but not your mommy.

Historically, men talk too much. And women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your tribe. Listen to the Good Mom's Bad Choices podcast. every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you go to find your podcast. Hey, I'm Radhdi Dvlukaya, and I'm the host of a really good cry podcast, and I have the

opportunity to talk to Vivian too. Whether you're trying to get out of debt, build wealth, negotiate like a boss, or just finally understand how to do money right, Vivian is the person to ask. Not understanding your own money and not understanding finances, there is risk for financial abuse. Yeah. And that is why every single woman. needs to be good with money. Listen to a really good cry on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey y'all. It's your girl T.S. Madison coming to you loud, live,

and in color from the Outlaws podcast. We're talking to Chaparone and Sasha Colby. We talk about the lovers, the haters, and the creator. In the Midwest, they told you, would just be humble. Mine was, I think, wrapped up in, like, Christian Gell. Oh, yeah. We definitely had, like, some Jehovah's Witness killed there.

Yeah. Were you Jehovah's Witness? My family's still going to say, or no, hi. Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast, honey. This is an IHeart podcast.