On Purpose with Jay Shetty - CHRIS HEMSWORTH EXCLUSIVE: The Untold Story of His Anxiety, Fear of Failure & The Diagnosis That Changed Everything

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

**This interview was filmed on November 29th, prior to the heartbreaking and tragic events in Bondi over the weekend. Our hearts are with everyone in Australia during this incredibly difficult time.                                                            __________ Today, Jay travels to Australia to sit down with Chris Hemsworth at the Crystalbrook Byron, not the superhero the world knows, but the grounded, introspective man shaped by his upbringing in the Australian outback. Chris opens up about his early years living in an Indigenous community, the adventures that sparked his imagination, and the strong family roots that still keep him centered. Jay explores how those moments from Chris’s childhood laid the foundation for the man he is today. Chris opens up about the pressure and anxiety he faced in the early stages of his acting career and how the pursuit of excellence often came at the cost of inner peace. He talks about the constant pull between ambition and being present, the balance of preparation and surrendering to the creative process and the grounding force of lifelong friendships.  In one of the most personal moments of the conversation, Chris talks about learning of his father’s Alzheimer’s diagnosis and how it changed his relationship with time, family, and legacy. He reflects on the emotional experience of documenting their journey together, navigating memory loss, caregiving, vulnerability, and the urgency it created to slow down and show up fully for the people who matter most. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Stay Present in a High-Pressure Career How to Reconnect With Your Childhood Self How to Build True, Grounding Friendships How to Be Fully There for Aging Parents How to Slow Down and Be Intentional With Your Time How to Balance Ambition With Inner Peace How to Bring More Curiosity Into Relationships We forget sometimes that the best parts of life aren’t about achievement or perfection. They’re about being present, staying connected, and having the courage to show up. Every challenge and moment of doubt is a chance to look inward and reconnect with what really matters. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here.  Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast  What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:08 Discovering Gratitude in Childhood 05:10 First Encounters With Fame 08:24 Arriving Somewhere You Never Planned 13:40 Losing Yourself to the Role 15:34 The Weight of High Expectations 20:31 Managing Mental Overload 25:31 Naming Your Stressors 28:56 The Fear of Saying No 31:29 Passing Down Healthy Money Values 34:03 Navigating Your Way Through Grief 38:22 How Family Keeps You Grounded 41:39 What Makes a Real Friend? 44:48 The Alzheimer’s Diagnosis  54:11 Realizing How Precious Time Truly Is 57:41 Witnessing Your Parents Grow Older 01:01:55 Honoring the People Who Raised You 01:06:50 The Rare Feeling of Getting It Right 01:10:18 Messages for Your Younger Self 01:13:57 Staying Connected to Your Childlike Self 01:19:39 Lessons We Learn From Our Children  01:22:30 Being Fully Present With Your Partner 01:28:12 Helping Children Understand Alzheimer’s 01:31:18 Appreciating the Beauty in Life 01:34:24 Knowing When It’s Time to Slow Down 01:38:47 Who Takes Care of the Caregiver? 01:42:30 Chris on Final Five  Episode Resources: Chris Hemsworth | Instagram Chris Hemsworth | X Chris Hemsworth | YouTube Chris Hemsworth | TikTok Chris Hemsworth | FacebookSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Nicholas Sparks is here. I would imagine that you've gotten a lot of feedback about setting a standard of romance that a lot of men can't measure up to. I have heard stories. At the same time, I've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book. Really? Get up to the table.

Doodle dropped to his knees. And I'm like, dude, you're in a Walmart in Birmingham, Alabama. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No one is harmed, no death, no trauma, just a few cells grown in a dish. This is David Eagleman from the Inner Cosmos podcast, and this week we're tackling a tough question where brain science meets the future. Lab-grown meat is going to force us to confront the boundaries of our ethics. And what does this have to do with brain plasticists, the social?

belonging, messed up boundaries between mental categories. What does this uncover about brain science and our calculations of morality? Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What up y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who have had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak?

And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me kept on stage on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. We're watching memories disappear in front of us. Everything we thought was solid and true and consistent was going to dramatically change. Chris Hemsworth.

Welcome to On Purpose. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here. We're in Byron. Is that right to be specific? Come to Byron to interview you and I was just sharing with you. When I first started the show, you were on that top list of people I wanted to sit down with. So it took me seven years to get to Byron Bay.

Thank you very much. But I'm really, really grateful. So, yeah, I've been such a fan of your work. Loved watching your interviews. Felt just a connection to what you're doing. And as you've gone into this world of limitless and now this incredible documentary with your father, it's such a phenomenon of evolution

from the authentic version of you that I feel we've always got to see in interviews. Oh, appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, really, really special. Yeah, I love the show, and I'm glad you could make it out here and we could do this in my hometown. Yeah, it's beautiful. Well, I wanted to dive right in,

because in the dock, we get such a up close and personal feel of who you are, your family, your family, your parents, and I love understanding how people became who they were. So the first question is, what's a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today, that feels like it's such a strong part of your personality today? What you see in the documentary is the road trip my dad and I take back to the community that we grew up in, this indigenous community,

Dordan Territory and the Outback of Australia. and they were definitely my most vivid earliest memories. I have trouble remembering years earlier than that and years after that, because I think one, it was so starkly different to the environment in Melbourne where I grew up, but I think it had such an profound impact on me due to, for so many reasons, the connection with the land, the people in that community, the experience itself was so dramatically different to anything as I'd done but the immersion within that that in indigenous culture in Australia

and having feeling this sort of influence from the I guess a sort of traditional way of life that they embodied and the welcoming we were received in that town I still have when I think about who I am and my appreciation and sense of gratitude and place in the world definitely I'm brought back to that period of my life

I'm trying to think of a single sort of thing for you but that period of time for me is the most vivid and wonderful what images flashed in your mind when you're thinking about that time is it not owning a pair of shoes not having a TV being the only white kid in an indigenous school, Buffalo walking down the street,

being five hours drive from the nearest shops, you know, it was like a little remote community in the middle of the outback. And how normal it all felt, you know, and to be sort of thrust back into that environment now would be sort of a shock to the system in many ways. But that was as familiar and comfortable and organic as sort of anything I've ever felt.

And, you know, I see photographs now that prompt instant sort of visceral feelings and a deep sort of nostalgia and warmth and happiness, you know, in a sense of connection because that was, you know, he lives in a tent at one point, you know, with my parents and And my older brother, we then lived in a sort of, you know, a very older sort of run-down house. But it was, it was as, you know, wonderful of a child as you could ask for. You know, there was no, it was sort of boundless, the opportunities where the imagination could go and the sort of the physical experience, you know, it was, again, unlike kind of anything I'd have had since then, you know, there was a real sort of Peter Pan quality to that sense of fantasy

and adventure that was instilled in us from that age, but that environment definitely awoken in us. Yeah, and I guess when you're living it, you don't know how special it is. Yeah, I think like all of our experiences that, you know, the norm is what is in front of you, you know. And if I had something to compare it with at the time, I may have, but that was my way of life.

And then it was kind of a shock coming back to Melbourne and adapting into, I guess, the world that, you know, suburban neighborhood, you know, structured sort of, you know, town that we lived in and catching the bus to school and the train and all the sort of the usual things. That, for me, was an adaptation that was, I remember kind of going, oh, this is very different to where we had sort of, where we'd come from. Yeah, your dad in the documentary says that as a kid,

you would say, I'm going to Hollywood. Yeah, I'm going to Hollywood. Where did that come from from this world that you grew up here? I think part of it was growing up in Northern Territory because there was this sort of sense of adventure instilled in me then. And I remember my dad reading Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit to me and my mom as well. And that sense of sort of fantasy and imagination awakened through a sort of a very big cultural difference. but also I think being outdoors, you know, the opportunity for not boredom but not being

continuously stimulated and entertained like we are sort of nowadays with devices and so on. There was, I guess, being in that environment awoke something in me that I still now either try and get back to or when I do attach myself to it, it ignites that sense of fantasy in that sense of adventure. But through reading books, and then when we moved back to Melbourne, every weekend was, you know, we would go to the movies or we'd hire a film

or we'd go on hikes and we'd go surfing and we'd go camping. And I remember from a very young age, not wanting to be an actor, but wanting to be one of those characters in one of those films, one of those books. And the closest thing I could be to, you know, an elf in the Lord of the Rings

was, you know, if I dressed up and play one in a movie, The closest thing I could, you know, get to as far as intergalactic travel or something, was playing the character in that movie. And I guess it was sort of an escapism of sorts, but not that I was escaping from anything I didn't want to be a part of. It was, it kept me captivated, you know, and still does. The transportation to other worlds and inhabiting other characters and other spaces, it's, yeah, and it sort of, it comes from a different.

different. Each film and each character I sort of I look at and that sort of journey I embark on, there's a sort of a real organic attachment to it as far as, I wouldn't say, I'm seeking out that character as much as I sort of arrive and then as you sort of fall into a character or fall into a film, it then sort of takes on a life of its own and takes you to places that I think you just have to be open to, you know, interpretation, but open for the journey. You mean by playing a character? Yeah. It opens up a different mindset or different...

For sure. It probes different parts of your soul or psyche, and there's a premeditated sort of approach and a sort of calculated approach, and then there's an absolute sort of demolishing of all that preparation and surrendering to the process, and that's the part I love. And you only get that through an extreme amount of preparation. And calculation, but then the letting go portion of it, which is where the risk is involved, but then that for me is where the greatest adventure occurs is through kind of really leaning in and really surrending to the experience.

That rings true. I had the fortune of sitting with Kobe Bryant before he sadly passed away on the show and he talked about how structure leads to spontaneity. But it was that discipline, as you're saying, leads to the ultimate ability to be free and surrender. But as I hear you say, I'm wondering, it's obviously not something that you mathematically, strategically access, because you're saying it's happening in this really natural, authentic way where it leads you, what roles made you feel that way, or which ones are the ones that have a strong memory for that for you, where you went, oh, wow, this led me to a place.

I didn't imagine it would. I mean, it's interesting because I sort of, I think I undulate from the extreme analytical over-ruminating calculated analysis of something. and then into the sort of, you know, the more sort of mad scientist, you know, intuitive sort of approach. And, but they go hand in hand, you know, the sort of the polarity between the two, I find is, is really helpful. And I'd say the, I did a film with George Miller, part of the Mad Max series called Furiosa. And that for me was probably the greatest example of that kind of character

taking over and being led into a place which you, you didn't plan for, but it only the sort of improvisational portion of it or the experimentation of it or the, you know, throw caution of the wind and just leap in head first came from months and months, or actually a couple of years because I had read the script two years before. And while I was doing other films, I was thinking about that character, it began to sort of infect my thoughts, you know, daily and to the point where I had to kind of try and put it aside because I had to get back to the film. I was currently on. I was talking to George Miller about that. And he goes, well, selfishly, I don't mind. You know, you can give our character more of that.

And it was the first time I kind of started journaling as the character and started doing a, you know, he was a pretty ugly villainous individual on paper and on screen as well, I guess. But I had to find a way to sort of understand and empathize with his position. And from his point of view, he was the hero as in, you know, everyone. and so by the time I got to set everything that I'd sort of planned began to fall away and each day was again kind of an experiment and a real sort of deep dive into the psyche of this individual and what were the sort of justifications for his actions which were perceived from one angle as you know horrific but from his angle and his position from where his people were standing survival of the fittest and um and yeah I've had that a few times in my career but that certainly stands out as one of the biggest ones.

I feel like there's so much empathy in becoming an actor because you're trying to understand this character that you don't know, but you have to kind of get to know and you may not feel what they feel. One of my friends is an acting coach in L.A., and he invited me to just go watch one of his sessions with actors at night. So I went to see him a couple of weeks ago, and I was just like, if anyone feels lonely,

they should just go to an acting class. Everyone was so encouraging of each other, and there was this real camaraderie that everyone had and everyone give each other feedback and all of it was about dissecting character and emotion and feeling. And I was like, wow, I've learned more from this

than, you know, about human emotion and about human potential and depth than you would going to a class because there's so much study and there's so many layers and there's so many... And as I'm hearing, you talk about it, I'm like, yeah, there's such a... But it sounds like you love that.

Like, it sounds like that. I love it for sure. Yeah. I mean, I've always had a big... interest in psychology and understanding our sort of inner workings of our soul and our psyche and us as human beings and we interact with one another and nature versus nurture and the how and why of it all and for me there's just something therapeutic about the experience of acting and putting on the clothes of a completely different individual and having the chance to

look at the world through a different lens and and I see that as a real gift compared to a lot of sort of, I guess, you know, our working life, it is, there's just an abundance of creativity and exploration there, which I find, you know, incredibly helpful just even, I mean, from each character I find I come out, whether or not I agree with the character or not, I've been able to sit in their shoes for a moment and look at the world in a different way.

And I think there's a sort of a humility that's forced upon you in that sense, which I find a really interesting sort of experiment. And as you've pointed out, I think very healthy for all of us to do. I know a lot of directors that have never acted and it scares the hell out of them, but they go and do acting classes for that reason to understand the psychology. You also understand how you're going to come at this character or what the position is that you might take. And as opposed to standing on this side of the fence and making assumptions,

stepping into those different environments, certainly, I don't know, it gives you a greater sense of agency ever. Yeah. Has there ever been a character you played where you felt, I wish that one didn't rub off from me or left a bit of them with you that you were?

I mean, it's, I find that, it's not that the lines get blurred, but I've been impressed to as defending my character and then we tapped on the shoulder and like, the guy killed a bunch of people, and like, oh yeah, okay, besides that part. Yeah. And so it's sort of, I don't think the state I will get myself in for certain characters

through the day, a very heightened sort of fight or flight type state where I am, there's a sort of feels like there's electricity running through my bones. And especially when there's a lot of dialogue and there's a lot of reaction, a lot going on, that I find very hard to switch off. It's not so much the character that I'm trying to shake. It's the energy that's required to play that character. And I find it with one of the hardest things, the high to come off is improvisational sort of comedy. And I remember doing, when we did Ragnarok, there was a lot of that in there.

And it was a very new version of the character. And I would get into this sort of ecstatic sort of, you know, electrified state and be kind of drinking coffee. and Red Bull and Slam and, you know, energy to try and elevate that more. And then it was like, well, I'd have to kind of rein that in and get home. And I'd just be sort of twitching and I'd try to come off that. So I find that the residual effect of the state of the character more so than the character. Yeah, yeah. It's more about getting into character.

Yeah, because you could put that, that, that, I don't necessarily have to believe I am the, you know, leader of an army or whatever. but it's more what would I feel in that situation that you then embody and then that sort of takes up. Yeah, that's fascinating to hear. Yeah, but the jitters are real. Like that's like, you've talked before about this idea of how your acting career is actually brought on huge anxiety and stress. Where's that come from?

I remember when I first started acting, I had, it immediately, once I sort of locked into the, idea that I was going to become an actor, it was an absolute obsession, it was an addiction, it was all I talked about it, there was no shadow of a doubt, that was what I was going to do. And there was a ignorance and a naivety that was there about the reality of how difficult that was going to be. But you need a fair amount of madness, I think, to sort of excel in any space, there needs to be a certain amount of absolute, deeply profound sort of commitment to it. You know, talk about Kobe Bryant and anyone who has excelled in their field and, you

know, a number of sports players and individuals that I look to that's sort of on the spectrum in some sense, you know, that there's a sort of a mastery there which is otherworldly, but it does require sort of an insane dedication to it. So I remember when I was finishing high school, it became this obsession, that was all I was going to do. And everything I was going to do from it was going to help pay off my parents' house. I was going to do this. I was going to take care of my family and friends and all, you know, look at all the amazing things I could do. And every time I go into a job, as small as it was and inconsequential, in my mind was like, if I screw up this one scene, then it will somehow make its way to Hollywood from Australia and I'll never get a job

again. If I struck up this one audition. And it was that kind of pressure. It was I was thinking 10 years ahead. And then the time I got into home and away, which was, you know, that big soap opera along this running, so proper in Australia, which have been young and you're aware of. I flew into that experience with enthusiasm and excitement and I was, it was great for a couple of months. And all of a sudden I was hit with this wave of anxiety because I was looking at the outcome rather than the sort of process. And I was looking at the um i'm doing it for this reason and that reason rather than being in the moment and in the present and it really detracted from what i was doing each day and it was be the last

thing i'd think about before i go to bed was what scenes i'd screwed up and now i should have done this i should have done that and as soon as i'd wake up it'd be like a shot of adrenaline about what i was going to screw up and i don't know what i think it became from a sort of expecting too much of myself which is there's a slight sort of contradiction to that too because as i said it requires that obsessive, you know, addictive sort of concentration, but it's the ability to sort of hold that obsession and that absolute need and want for it to achieve something great that you want to achieve and then at the same time to completely let it go and not care. And so I had to do this strange dance around trying to convince myself I didn't care, but in the preparation time to

to motivate myself, I would have to care a hell of a lot. And so it's sort of the, you know, the two voices, the Jekyllyn Hyde version of oneself that is sort of both need to be kept in check. You know, it's your purpose pulls you, your fear pushes you. There's a sort of strange balance with the two extremes I find useful, but also terrifying when not kept in check. And that sat with me for years, that anxiety. And then I remember, and I've talked about this in a couple of interviews,

but reading a few books around performance anxiety specifically and looking at different sports players and musicians and people who performed at a high level of public speaking, and they took all their sort of measurements, you know, the physical sort of responses prior to these engagements and said, are you scared or are you scared? excited. And whether, you know, half the group was in this gag category, half is and excited, the physical response was exactly the same across the board, elevated heart rate, all the things

you, you know, you would imagine. So it was about the sort of, the takeaway was it was about an interpretation to that feeling. And so when I would have nervous energy come up and all those things that at one point I would signal to myself for fear, I could just, you know, narrate that in a different sense and say, oh, no, this is my signaling for excitement. This is not my chilling for fear. And again, I still have to keep that in check. And it sort of, out of nowhere, will take me down one path or the other. And I've got to kind of wrangle my way back to preferred place, which is that the enthusiastic is started, you know.

Yeah. What's fascinating about that, as I'm hearing you say it, is it actually makes you better at what you do. Yeah. Like that pressure, it sounds like that you were putting on yourself when you're doing home and away. Yeah. Even though it wasn't a great experience for you, it's making you better at the thing. Yeah. And that's what I find so fascinating about people like yourself or high-performing athletes or any of the types of people you mentioned is that the thing that makes you better at the craft doesn't necessarily improve the quality of your life and your mind.

Yeah. And that's that dance you're talking about, which is, so I've got to kind of be able to unleash the beast to be able to do the work that I do, but then I don't want the beast to eat me. yeah because then there's nothing left yeah when the beast is you know satisfied for sure there's sort of a blessing and a curse in a way and it's because i've had experiences when you know the thing i was trying to remove which was that heightened sense of awareness and the and then in fact the you know you're absorbing too much information and it's every little movement or sound i'm like oh god i wish i could numb that i wish i could reduce this sort of state and be more present and then I've found my way to that place either through um not caring for one reason

or another being purely exhausted you know you've night shoots you just got there is no adrenaline left in the body I'm like oh this is great I'm comfortable and the first note is yeah it's a bit flat you know then the next take you know and I'm like oh great the thing that I've been trying to get rid of is actually the secret source and and so that again about the interpretation I don't think the feeling itself is the problem it's it's our label we put upon it, you know, which then causes all the problems. And so I say this to friends of mine who are auditioning on set and having anxiety or problems. I'm like, you've got to just, you've got to make friends with it. You've got to look at it. It's very hard to recognize

now, but it is a gift in that sense. It is your spider, spidey sense is coming alive. It is the ability to think quicker and react faster and be more attuned to things. If you, you're allowing it in the space as opposed to, you know, don't think of a pink elephant. What do you think of? pink elephant and i've had so many people talk about like meditation prior to um walking on stage and calming down and don't know for me that is like house of cards because it's like you're in that state and then the one little thing sets you off whereas i beforehand want to get my state and myself into that ecstatic sort of state because it's on my terms and now i own it as opposed to it being something that creeps in the back door i'm like no i want this bring it on big deep breath

kind of, you know, absorb it, use it, and then I found that that has been really beneficial and I've been able to use it for the good, you know, version of it as opposed to it transforming into the one we're afraid of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's what I hear you saying is that when it's in control of you, it feels like pressure and fear. And then when you're in control of it, when you're embodying it, it's now part of your narrative and part of your purpose and part of you feeling like, oh, this is fuel for how I want to

perform rather than this is just reminding me of, hey, if I miss these three things, no one's going to care about me and I'll mess this up. And that obviously is not helpful at all. And so you're saying befriending it is transforming it from being pressure and fear to being friendship and purpose. Absolutely. Yeah. There's an acceptance to it. There's a surrendering to it. There's an ownership to it as opposed to it being something you're trying to avoid. But that only comes through, I think, understanding the mechanisms or the mechanics around the fact that it is beneficial if you have that relation to it, you know, it is the worst thing in the world if you're trying to avoid it.

Yes. You know, shallow breath, heart rates up, sweaty palms, like you can't think. Everything just shuts down, you know. But if it's like, no, no, these, these physical response, this emotional response, I programmed myself to see as a positive, therefore it can be. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, and again, you'll see me broke down. At one point, go, that trick ain't working today, is it, Chris?

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Go to Hellofresh.combe, rescue 50. That's Hellofresh.cah promo code Rescue 50. Hi, I'm Radhdi de Vluka and I am the host of a really good cry podcast. This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the crappy childhood fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods. We talk about how the things we went through when we were younger can still show up in our adult lives, in our relationships, our reactions, even in the way we feel in our own bodies. And Anna opens up about her own story, what helped her notice the patterns she was stuck in

and how she slowly started teaching her body that it is safe now. So when I got attacked, it was very random. Four guys jumped out of a car and just started beating me and my friend. And they broke my jaw on my teeth. I was unconscious. Then I woke up and I screamed. and I screamed because even though I didn't know who I was or where I was, something in me was just like, hold on, wait, they could kill me and I'm not going to let that happen.

I'm not going to let that happen. I'm going to get through this, and I did. Listen to a really good cry on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, friends, Sophia Bush here, host of Work in Progress. This week we had such a special guest on the podcast. My Forever Flotus, a mentor, a friend, a wife, a mother. an author, attorney, advocate, television producer, and now she adds podcast host to the list herself.

Friends, Michelle Obama is here. Sophia, I'm beyond thrilled to be able to sit down and chat with you. We talk about it all. Life, love, motherhood, martini's. Vodka martini, dry, straight up, olives. Oh, olives. Very cold. My girl.

Barely any vermouth. What's next? What she's watching on TV. I am a white lotuser. I am a real housewives person. I love the dating shows. And tennis. I just find that to be a bit meditative. You do not want to miss this. Listen to work in progress on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know I've had a similar experience with public speaking where I've been public speaking for, for years on stages. Yeah.

And if I really care, and that's my narrative kicking in, if I really care, I'll still get sweaty palms, I'll still be shaking a little, I'll feel my heart rate go up. And I've learned that all of those things are just a sign that I care. Because I know if I get asked to speak someone, I don't really care, then I won't feel any of those things. And so I'm like, oh, I feel like there's some stakes here. And this is important. And then I have my practices to embody that and feel good about that.

But then at the same time, when I went on tour two years ago and we, We were doing nearly 50 shows across the world. I was feeling a completely different level of anxiety than I'd ever felt. And I remember two days before when we were in rehearsals, I was just feeling really tight-chested. I talked to my doctor and I went in for a checkup and they were like, it's just stress. And I was like, why am I stressed?

I do this all the time. But what still makes you nervous or what still gives you a little bit of that stress now? I mean, this stuff, you know, depressed, you know, what can I said? It all definitely awakens that feeling. And then it's a constant sort of dance and adaptable sort of the experience. But I think, you know, I probably have a much easier time now playing a character than I would being myself. Like, in fact, with this series Limitless, that was very new to me to, you know, be in the documentary space and play Chris. And I felt really uncomfortable from that.

And I got better with it probably in the second season and this last episode with my dad. But earlier on, it was like, I have nothing interesting to say. I'm not educated on these topics. And I'm sort of a guinea pig in the experience. So maybe that's a good thing. But you're far more critical of yourself than you are, I think, of someone you're pretending to be. Like you said before, it's a signaling that you care, I guess, that discomfort, that anxiety. It's a signal that it's important on some level.

and it's something that should be respected and paid attention to, rather than, oh, I'm anxious, how dare I be anxious? And then the criticism and the judgment and then it's like slippery slope. Yeah, yeah. It's so interesting to me how so many of us, it's easier to pretend to be someone then play ourselves,

not just for actors, but all of us. Yeah. Whether you're playing a performance at work and a persona or a persona with your friends, and it's so hard to just let go of that persona. And it's almost like, When I speak to comedians, they're always like, yeah, I just feel, everyone just wants me to be funny all the time. Yeah.

And they just feel that constant pressure around friends, family, everything. And they just want to be normal and have a bad day or whatever it may be. And, you know, everyone feels that pressure to perform in a certain way. Yeah. And it's almost like we're waiting for the person we can take off the outfit around and just kind of let go. I remember my mom talking about this years ago and she was a high school teacher at the time. And I said, I'm nervous about this, that, and the other. being on a set and a producer in this.

And she goes, it's the same in any environment. She goes, me as the teacher, okay, well, the principals, the producer and my students are the audience or, you know, and my work colleagues or the other cast members. And in any line of work, you're faced with this, it's this sort of a human experience that you can't escape. And she talked about the same thing about kind of understanding that and accepting that it always is a challenge it's always a navigation of sorts and and and rather than looking at it as my experience is unique and special to everyone else's and has more pressure than yours or

this that now that's the trapping you know as soon as you you kind of understand it is more common than uncommon i think there's some comfort in that like i remember listening to um anthony hopkins and cape blanchet you know people i'd worked with and admired and and looked up to talking about imposter syndrome and this might be my last job and I'm thinking really but there was deep truth in that you know they still had that doubt but aware of the fact that maybe that doubt was a good thing because it kept you humble it kept you motivated it kept you pushing forward and searching as opposed to thinking you have all the answers you know and then there's a sort of and there's a lack of humility yeah yeah well you've talked about that as well right you've talked

about that idea of fearing saying no. Because what if it all disappears? And when I read that you said that, I was like, wow, like that, you just wouldn't expect that. But we have these codings from whether when we were young or wherever we picked them up, where there's like a sense of like, oh, well, this could all just go away. Yeah. Were you growing up in a house, you know, loving beautiful household and great parents, but we had no money. And I remember the kind of financial burden that was on my parents and overhearing conversations about bills and you know then borrowing money for my grandparents or their parents to you know before payday came on every Thursday or you know the $20 we might have had in our piggy bank kind of saying can we borrow that

we'll give it to you next week and and not that they ever put that honest by any means and probably tried to shelter us from that and but being very aware of it so I felt that's the responsibility and that need to remove that pressure for them from a very early age and but still it's this crazy irrational thought that oh it's going to run out or it's it's going to be taken away and I won't be able to do that thing it's like we've already done that thing you know they're all taken care of them family cousins friends you know and not to say my career couldn't end tomorrow but financially that wouldn't be a concern due to kind of what we've put in place And it's, I don't know, it's, it's be rational, it's illogical, and, but again, I think it, I don't know, it's sort of, I don't mind a little bit of that just to keep you hungry, you know, but it has to be tempered like all of it.

Yeah. Because the insanity of too much of that thinking is, is incredibly detrimental and you never enjoy what you have because it's always about, oh, I need to get more. It's just not enough or what else can I, do I do to secure this even more? And it's this obsession with safety, I think we all have and the need for abundance and security. But then I look at my own childhood where I couldn't have felt more secure and safe. And, you know, so money isn't the answer to that. Yet you sort of trick yourself into thinking it is. And whether that's from societal sort of understandings and expectations and the sort of our relationship to money as human beings

and how we signal or represent safety and comfort in the wrong spaces maybe, but it's a constant navigation, isn't it? Yeah, it's almost like what you're talking about is the power of pattern. It's almost like when you've had a thought that has been practiced. So with you giving the examples of like, oh, we're going to borrow this money here and we'll pay it back next week. So you're constantly living in a cycle of we don't have enough, we're going to have to figure it out. and that doesn't disappear when an external situation changes. You can all relate to that.

I mean, I can relate to it in my life too. And what I love about what you said the most was it's not about, I think everyone over, and I don't like you when anyone says this whole money can't buy happiness stuff because it's like, well, it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people. And I don't think that's the point, but I love what you just said about this safety idea that you felt safe growing up, and it wasn't because of that.

And I think that's an even more powerful truth where it's like, wait a minute, what about if it was about safety, and we all want to feel safe and secure. I felt very safe and secure because I've always described it as my mum's love was like this protective shield where I never grew up ever questioning

whether I was lovable or not. My mom loved me so much. And that makes me feel very safe. And that wasn't because we had money growing up and it wasn't because we always knew what was coming next. It was because you felt loved and you felt safe and secure because of that.

For sure. And so there are certain problems that money solves and it's not safety. Yeah. And it can provide and help for that, but safety is a more core emotional need. Yeah, definitely. That comes from other things. It's another thing I've talked to my mum about, the fact that the lessons I learned

and the person I am and my brothers who we are, you know, growing up in that household, we didn't have money. Well, now my kids, we have money. What's that going to do to them? Are they going to not learn the same lessons that we've had and have the same sense of sort of gratitude and appreciation for things? And she said, you could look at, you know, households had a lot of money, your households had little money.

And he could pick about the same amount of successful stories versus unsuccessful. And at the end of the day, it comes down to love, security, safety. Do I feel like I'm connected and part of this household and appreciated? And I'm safe to explore who I am as an individual or not, you know, regardless of this sort of exterior, the larger environmental sort of superficial elements of it, it's around those core components of love and connection. And that always gives me comfort, you know, when I'm sitting here thinking I'm destroying my kids,

like having this big house and, you know, abundance and all this and so on. But there's always a complex one to sort of navigate in any space, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's true, though. I think it's what you've been saying this whole conversation already. It's that you keep talking about how everything's somewhat of a gift in the curse. Yeah.

And it is that, right? like everything is like and as soon as you accept that everything's binary yeah and there is no black or white yeah it is all gray yeah and it is all teaching people to see the gray and see the nuance and yeah see the complexity and recognizing that complexity is simplicity in the sense of as soon as you accept that it is all of it yeah then all of a sudden it's simple whereas when you're trying to find a definitive right way of doing it it's pretty impossible to find it and you can rack your brain forever. It is and the sort of the thing you're searching for only exists because of the thing you're not searching for, like the polarity of things. And it's the, you know, there's no north

without a south. There's not a one-sided mountain that you, you know, you only know love because you know grief. And I had this, a friend of mine passed away recently and I had this, the normal response of grief and anguish and pain and the why and the questions. And then through that, all of a sudden, this lightness. and there's stillness because all the trivial things that I was ruminating around day to day all of a sudden dissipated and it was like wow it's that simple it can be gone in a second and I wouldn't know one without the other and so the sort of grief is as much a blessing as the love is and the joy because they coexist you know that there isn't an individual experience

You can't have one without the other. And that, for me, I find helps navigate the complicated spaces of life and the sort of moments of adversity is kind of realizing that they're sort of one and the same thing. And I don't exist there all the time, but every now and there, and I feel like I get a glimpse of it and there's a quiet peacefulness to it. You know, it's like the sort of the louder it gets, all of a sudden things just stop. Alan Watts talks a lot about that. I love his sort of philosophy around what he presents in that way.

Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I mean, it's a sort of out of nowhere kind of tragic tragedy as we all experience at some point. But I just remember having that moment that sort of very odd sort of lightness in amongst the grief, which maybe pause for a moment and consider where that came from and what that stems from and what that sort of. what that message is. Yeah, yeah. It's how your grief is only as deep as your love would be.

If you don't feel grief about something like that, well, it's probably because you didn't have that love and care. But yeah, it's not that that's easy to recognize in the moment or pause. But when you get that access, it's something to worth holding on to. Yeah, and that was trying to reconcile the sort of psychotomy around those two feelings. You know, the sort of I almost then followed just guilt that I wasn't feeling. as sad as I was a moment ago, and it's like, what is this sort of complex kind of, you know, push and pull between those two states? And it's like, I don't know, living in the questions

rather than needing the answers to it, you know, all the time, sort of the answers of trying to define the definitive why to something and the absolute certainty of something is just like a danger and a trapping, I find. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, and we will just, and the funny thing is even if you get a perfect right answer, you still won't be satisfied with it. It'll change tomorrow. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Because then you're like, wait a minute, if I look at it from this angle, you know, and it's fascinating how the human mind wants completion.

Yeah. Yeah. But still keeps locating all the incomplete loops. Absolutely. To get lost in. It's like the only certainty is uncertainly. Yeah. You know, the only constant is inconstant.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a, yeah. It does a number on you for sure. it's like I don't know if you're when you're a kid you're kind of lying awake at night thinking about how big the universe is or what happens when we die and then like oh oh oh it's like your brain arrives at a place of nothingness you know and that's as terrifying as it is kind of liberating yeah does it help to have brothers in the industry too because I mean that's rare yeah that you know all of you have got incredible careers and it's like how does that is it helpful to be able to share some of these challenges or or do you find that that's not really the case No, it is definitely. Yeah. This is sort of a point of reference or a, or a, there's a, there's a camaraderie for sure and a support network between the three of us. You're in your sort of quieter moments of reflection. You can kind of go, is this normal? Am I kind of, you know, wrong to feel this, that and the other and what's your experience in that? And so absolutely, having someone who is a complete sort of, you know, safe house for those discussions is a real benefit. It's really powerful. I feel like that's the hardest thing for most artists or athletes or people

who go and live otherworldly lives. And then it's almost like you have all your best friends back home or the people you grew up with. And you need them because they're the only ones who remind you of where you started and where it came from. But they don't understand the new world that you deal with. And so you kind of have this version of it where they can reconcile with you the challenges. It's not like, oh, well, Chris, you're rich and famous. It doesn't matter. It's like they're like, oh no, those things are still real and you still experience imposter syndrome and you still experience anxiety

and they can vouch for that because they probably go through the same thing. Oh, for sure. I mean, I feel very lucky to have them in the same space. But I'd say the thing that has had the biggest effect on me is the team of people I get to work with which is from my hair and makeup team, my costume guy that I travel with,

my assistant, my trainer. That group I've known for about, 14 years. My assistant, my trainer I've known for 35 years that I went to school with, my two best mates. And to have the five or six of us traveled together is, I thought, was quite common. Why wouldn't you bring along your mates and have the same people with you? And the amount of people I've met in the highest of positions that live this isolated, lonely existence and don't have true friendships around and groups of people who remind them who they are really and remind them,

or there's a grounding quality to that. I thought it's such a tragedy. You know, they give this abundance of opportunity and this sort of, you know, one and a million chance to sort of participate in this journey where you get to travel and you're dealing with all this experience

and activation and interaction with the world on the level that, you know, most of us wouldn't get to experience. Yet you're doing it alone. You have no one to share it with. And I think that's the, you know, the social connection. It's like it's only as good as the people standing either side of you that get to walk that journey with you because, you know,

there's times when you become a little jaded about it. There's times it becomes a little normal. At times when it becomes boring, they have someone to shake you and go, hey, pretty cool. Remember where we came from, remember what we could be doing, remember what we used to do, is incredibly invigorating. And I find myself the thing I most, grateful for, I think, in my career is having those core people with me constantly.

Yeah. How do you define a real friend? Someone you can laugh with and who you can laugh at each other. Yeah. And it's not offensive or it can be and that's okay. Someone you can really push it too far with and they're going to go, I'll let that one slide. I'll get you next time. A true friend who keeps you humble, I think, keeps you grounded. the sort of obvious things to say but through thick and thin they're still standing there next year

and whether it was all to be taken if it all got taken away they'd still be there having a laugh patty in the back saying well we gave it a shot and I've got a lot of those people in my life I'm very thankful for yeah I love that it's definitely it's British banter is a big thing

but I got to learn that Australian banters as strong if not better as well because when I was touring in when I toured Australia two years back and we did three shows at the Sydney Opera House we did Melbourne and Brisbane

and I have lots of moments in my show where I bring people up on stage and we're going through all sorts of experiments and activities and every single person would banter back there was no one who's letting me get away with a joke at their expense and I was like this is amazing

it was so much fun everyone was so fast the quips were great it's good there's a good self-deprecating sort of quality yeah yeah and I love that too I feel like you know I have a WhatsApp group with all my best mates back in London. And all we do is just roast each other all day long.

So whether someone post something on social media or send this video out, whatever it is. And I think that that's such a good test of friendship. Oh, for sure. And when me and my wife's from London too, when we moved to America, me and my wife roast each other just as you would roast one of your boys. And everyone on my team would just think we were having a massive argument because they just weren't used to it. So they thought we hated each other. It's their love language. Yeah, exactly.

We were like, no, this is our, you know, it's not passive-aggressive. This is just how it works, yeah. I think there was a study done recently, and I don't know where I read it, but talking about that it is a sign of true friendship that you can roast each other and give each other shit. And it's a sign that there is a, I don't know, there's a trust there. Because you don't, I wouldn't speak this way to someone that I didn't know that well and didn't trust that it was going to go okay with it.

It would be, yeah, I'm in trouble. Yeah. The worst was when I first moved to LA and I was learning about getting a stylist and all this kind of stuff and my friends would just take terrible pictures of me off the red carpet and just keep putting them in the group

and they're like, why are you wearing a skirt? What are you doing? I'm sure you've had a million of those. Oh, for sure. I've made some of mine who'll send me pictures of like, you know, certain sort of fashion sort of moments and looks. It's like, oh, it's number seven,

you know, the hand on the air and there's scratch above the head. And you kind of, I find myself doing those shoots and then stopping myself because three or four guys back home they're going to see it and tell me better, rather than the vast majority of people who might not think twice about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that.

And you need that. You need that, for sure. I think about it all the time every time my hairstylist tries a new hairstyle, whatever it is. I'm like, yeah, all right, I know who's going to send me a picture of this tomorrow. Yeah. I'm so grateful that I got to see the documentary because I went through a really, and I shared this because of how powerful it was for me to watch it. And so my greatest spiritual mentor who I grew up around in London, he passed away during the pandemic.

And I couldn't go back to his funeral. I was stuck in the United States and he was based in London. And I just remember finding out, it was almost like everything changed for him and changed for us in like a night. It felt that way at least when we became aware. Yeah, no, no. But it was watching your experience with your father was so beautiful because, it was all the I was like people are going to watch this and they're going to know what to do and that is such a beautiful thing to give people it's such a gift to give to people because I didn't

know because I'd never been through it I'd never seen anyone publicly go through it so when I watched it and I can't wait for everyone who's listening and watching right now to watch it too because it gave me a real resolve to be like yeah this is going to help people it's going to help a lot of people right and and I wanted to ask you about that your father obviously got diagnosed with Alzheimer's it's like what was that like the day you found out like what how did you even notice it before the day you found out did you start to notice things um yeah yeah it's it's funny i remember in the first season of limitless um and peter atia yeah uh we i did a bunch of blood work and you know looking at um my genetics and the plan was on camera he was going to tell me about you know what i

had a predisposition to and what i had a vulnerability what my strengths were and so on And he said, oh, I don't want to do this on camera. I've got to talk to you about something. And I thought, oh, God, what is this? You know, and Darren Aronofsky called me. He said, Peter wants to call you. And I got really nervous about what he was going to tell me. And he said, you've got two copies of the APOE4 gene, which you get a copy each from each parent.

A two is not too bad. A three is a little worse. The four is the worst one, and you've got two. And it basically, I think, one percent of the population has two copies of these genes. and it puts you in a high-risk category for Alzheimer's. It's not a predeterministic gene. It's just an indication that you have a greater vulnerability to Alzheimer's. He told me that and I was like a moment of sort of shock, a moment of what does mean?

And then about 15 minutes later, I was like, eh, it's something old people get, whatever. I told my parents about it. And I remember my dad saying, oh, look, don't worry, no, we'll figure it out. That's, you know, and I was like, yeah, I'm not concerned. It's just a strange thing to be told. and he was like, it's fine, mate, you know, plenty of time where you know, we'll figure out what you need to do to prevent it and so on. And I remember vividly that conversation of him sort of telling me not to be concerned about it.

And then about two or three years later, my mum saying to me, I think we've got to get dad checked because there's these signs and things I'm concerned about, the obvious ones memory and sort of slight mood changes and shifts and forgetfulness and so on. So he went and got tested and found out he had two copies of the APOE4, as did my mum, which so have you got 1% of the population as APA 4. I don't know what the math is on an APA. Then finding each other. So then by default, me, Luke and Liam all have two copies of APA.

So this sort of anomaly of genetic sort of combinations. And, but my dad, I was immediately hit with the reality of what that meant for him because I had just gone through a way, ah, it's a long way down the track, don't worry, push it aside, then all of a sudden it was right front of us. And it was incredibly confronting, but again, I think the, we'll figure it out mentality was still very prominent and then as it began to get worse we it became a real sort of shaking into the moment and a real sort of um shock to the system and oh wow this sort of everything we thought was solid and true and consistent was going to dramatically change and shift um yeah and then

and then we um i remember when i was looking at doing another episode for that series about what I do something around brain health with my dad. And my first instinct was I just spent a lot of the press to it for the previous show trying to tell people that I didn't have Alzheimer's and, you know, and I said, I don't want to go through that. But I also don't want to exploit or feel like I'm in any way, putting him in an uncomfortable position or exploiting this kind of condition and how is it going to make him feel? And I spoke to him about it and he was like, oh, absolutely.

Yeah, no, let's, you know, maybe this will help shed some light on the issue and people will benefit from it and we might learn something along the way and and off we went in in that direction. But there was a huge amount of grace and humility in his attitude to it. He says it in the documentary, but his biggest concern was being a burden. And that was heartbreaking to hear and consider. And I'd never even, up until we shot the documentary, I didn't know even how he felt about it, you know, because I hadn't asked him. And I felt this strange. mix of sort of guilt while shooting as well as concern for his condition, but guilt that I haven't had an artist prior, now I'm doing it on camera. And so it was this strange sort of orchestration

of events. But what came out of it and what wasn't planned was this beautiful connection that my dad and I were able to have in this beautiful discussion that we probably wouldn't have had otherwise. And someone who had just seen it recently, he said, I'm about at the same, you know, I got diagnosed a few years ago in the same spaces. Your dad's in. And he said, no, wish my kids could see this documentary. I hope they see it because there's so much stigma around it. They don't know what to say. They don't even talk to me about it. They don't ask me how I'm feeling about it. They don't ask me, am I afraid, am I concerned? What am I concerned about? They just sort of talk to me about the footy or they talk to me about, you know, work. And, and, you know,

And that was a sort of a beautiful moment of realization. I was there with my dad and I said, this is hopefully what, you know, this is going to do for people is it motivate people into reaching out and removing the sort of awkwardness around the uncomfortable conversations and actually reaching out to people and allowing each other to be vulnerable, allowing each other to talk about their fears and their concerns and help navigate it together as opposed to, again, having blink on and sort of burying our heads in the sand. Yeah.

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Hey, I'm Cal Penn. And on my new podcast, Here We Go again. We'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? You may know me as the second hottest actor from the Harold and Kumar movies, but I'm also an author, a White House staffer, and as of like 15 seconds ago, a podcast host. Along the way, I've made some friends who are experts in science, politics, and pop culture. And each week, one of them will be joining me to answer my burning questions.

Like, are we heading towards another financial crash like in 08? Is non-monogamy back in style? And how come there's never a gate ready for your flight when it lands like two minutes early? We've got guests like Pete Buttigieg, Stacey Abrams, Lili, Singh and Bill Nye. When you start weaponizing outer space, things can potentially go really wrong. Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now, because it is. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to Here We Go Again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

No one is harmed, no death, no trauma, just a few cells grown in a dish. This is David Eagleman. from the Inner Cosmos podcast. And this week, we're tackling a tough question where brain science meets the future. Lab-grown meat is going to force us to confront the boundaries of our ethics and our imagination. It invites us to question

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It's such a big thing and it's such a hard thing that it's hard to be like, oh, when we've had hard things happen in the family before we talk about it, this is different to that, even though everyone's an adult now, you know, your family and everyone's grown up. It's a difficult conversation to have, and it's, have you as a family always had open conversations and emotional conversations and difficult conversations, or has there not really been a need to have one? No, we have, but there hasn't been a need as, I guess, as important as this one.

You know, it wasn't as personal. Like we've obviously had, you know, people die and situations occur and things that we were all, you know, confronting and the, you know, human experience of tragedy and so on. But it wasn't as in front of us as this was. And the interesting, the complex thing about, I think, dementia and Alzheimer's, is it's, when the signs first start to show, they're very subtle. So you still sort of think, oh, we can manage this, you know. And then it gets over time a little worse. And depending on the regression, you know, some people that happens in six months in the sort of vegetable cataconic state.

Whereas, and there's some people, it's a slower regression. And so again, there's an easy option to sort of ignore those subtle changes. And I think this experience made it far more prominent for all of us than we had to pay attention to it. And even my mum had said, you know, my dad did the interview. She's like, I've never even heard him talk like that. I didn't even know he felt that. I didn't know he was experiencing that. and because he didn't want to put that burden upon someone else.

And so, yeah, I guess I'm thankful for the opportunity to embark on this sort of journey with him and as far as the documentary went because it ignited something in, I think all of us in my family to be a lot more proactive and a lot more present and a lot more connected because, you know, we're watching sort of memories disappear in front of us. The first time you're going through it, and same as my experience, before the pandemic, before he did pass away, I would go back to see him.

And every time I'd go back, I'd notice, especially because I was living in L.A., so every time I'd go back, I'd notice big changes than the people who were with him every day. And it was like I'd go back maybe every four months to see him or whatever it was. And it's like the first time he'd still remember my name, but he'd forget that I was there after,

to like 10 minutes and then say hello again. And then the next time I'd go, he'd remember my name, but then he'd only, he'd forget me every 30 seconds or whatever it was. And then, you know, you just, I saw that decline because I wasn't with him every day. How long between when he was, oh my gosh, maybe like, I think I'd have to check the exact time,

but maybe like three to four years. Wow, yeah. Yeah, like three to, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, my, the same time my dad was diagnosed, a friend of ours was diagnosed. and my dad's actually in a remarkable position compared to a friend of ours who can barely speak

and that glazed vague look of sort of confusion, constantly 24-7. My dad is the short-term memory, you know, and it's the older memories are still very strong and evident he can sit here and recognize people, but there's some repetition now occurring more than there was, but, you know, I'm thankful that it's. hasn't happened as fast as a lot of instances, you know. Yeah, yeah. It was about probably four, maybe even five years ago, you know. Yeah, that's, yeah, no, I'm happy to hear that too.

And it was, it's beautiful to watch you go back to your childhood hope, like rebuilt, rebuilt, redesign. And whenever everyone watches it, they'll know what I mean when I say that. But just like, it's such a special thing to do. Like, I can't imagine what it felt like for him and for you to even go back there as like a fully grown adult because he was an adult when he was there. But, you know. No, and it was, the reminiscence therapy is what it was called about, you know,

that there's basically stimulating old memories in the hippocampus and triggering memories that held a great amount of larger emotional responses. So whether it be exhilarating, exciting, nerve-wracking, those intense memories to stimulate those via looking at old photographs, talking to old friends from the past, discussing things that happened in the past. What we did was a very elaborate supercharged version of that. We had a film crew with us and a production, and they basically took the house that we grew up in

and stripped all the furniture out and somehow sourced furniture and posters and DVD players and whatever that we had as kids and set the house up the way it was and we lived there. And it was beyond sort of comprehension. that when I first walked in, I was struggling to sort of articulate how I felt about it because my brain didn't know what to do with it. And it was remarkable sort of seeing my dad sort of come to life in moments and it trigger all of these other memories and better. And then my mum going through the house and it triggering a different experience for her.

You know, it was a reminder of the passage of time and the memories she had then, but the memories we may not have, you know, in a few years time. of the disappearing but it was yeah a pretty wild experience yeah it's just fully takes you back and it's I imagine that while you're doing this because you're doing the supercharged version there's a sense of

I wonder how your thoughts on how making memories has changed because we say that as humans like oh we should make let's make memories but I don't know if we really think about it as profoundly as you do when you're faced with not knowing how many more you can make and how many of the parts.

So how is your thought process on like make the idea of making memories been impacted? I think my time that I spend with him now is a lot simpler than I would have thought, I would have attempted in the past. I thought it had to be a bigger experience. We had to do something, you know, incredibly memorable. And I've realized now that the greatest moments are just sitting there being with him and seeing him have someone listen to him and see him have someone see him see him have someone see him and pay attention.

And watching him through this, even this documentary, all of a sudden he had agency in something again, you know, and not just because of, there's certainly having Alzheimer's, the awareness around I'm losing control and I can't sort of, lead the pack or be in charge of, you know, this space, I'm very much a passenger or maybe a patient, but also that thing that happens at a certain age, and I've watched my parents, you know, the last kind of 10 years, the transition of, well, they've been the authority and now they're looking to us. And what that does to the ego and all, and it's, it takes a great amount of grace and humility to go, oh, I now have to seek support where I used to lead the

way. And I don't have the answers to that. And now, you know, my kids may be the authority in a lot of these subjects, you know, even though we thought we were, you know, all through our egoic, youthful times. But the, that sort of transition. And so for him, that was really, you know, I looked at that making the documentary as a, I thought, I was very thankful for watching him. And a lot of the crew said this, wow, as the days went on, he really sort of took charge and felt like he was in the driver's seat again. And I think that's really important for people to remember is to still give them some agency and still as much as there is a lack of control.

But I don't know, allowing them to embody some authority and narrative on their life as opposed to, like, now you just have to sit in this space and have your hand out. Yeah, you think you're helping, but actually you're hurting. Yeah, it's like you, and I try and, you know, I ask my dad questions. I know the answers to, but just to, I know he'll feel like he has, hopefully he doesn't hear this. He'll forget it anyway. But, you know, I'll ask him things just to sort of stimulate some, again, agency and authority in his thinking.

Yeah. I mean, it must have been pretty amazing to see him ride a motorcycle. Yeah, I mean, still like that. Like, yeah, that's pretty impressive. Like, when I saw that, I was like, wow, that's, that must feel great for him to get, because he used to be a, you know, it just, to me, that also must feel like some agency for him to still be so active in that way because. Yeah.

And that's the thing I think I'm most scared for him, and I think probably he is, is there will come a time when he won't be able to do those things. And at the moment, you know, I mean, he's still races in. and historic races with old Harleys and different bikes and things and, you know, we'll blitz the pack and young bloats will rock up on their bikes and he's going, and they'll go, whoa, who is this guy? And he ends up on the podium a lot of the times in these races. He's an incredible rider still.

I don't know at what point that will occur, but that, for me, brings me great concern, you know, as it does for him as well, because it will be the, I think, the most obvious representation of the lack of agency and that you're taking a real back seat to things, you know? Yeah. Well, no, hearing you talk about is just genuinely so

as hard as it is for you and obviously for your family and even just hearing you say how hard it was to make a documentary about something so personal, I definitely think that even hearing you talk about it today, I'm like, this is helping people

because I feel like there's so many it's not talked about enough and there are so many. and there are so many families that go through it. And like you said, it's so easy to pretend like it's not happening or try and just tell that person what actually happened because that's what our logical brain does. And what did you learn about your dad through this experience only

that you wish you'd learn sooner or understood earlier? My dad had certainly, it has always been my hero. He's represented such nobility and integrity and compassion and strength and a great, deep, profound sense of justice and injustice and right and wrong and has been very present and vocal about situations like that. You know, he worked in child protection and taking care of the most vulnerable of us and being children, you know. And he, they're big shoes to fill, you know, and but I think what I didn't realize

watching this documentary was that he had all the same fears and concerns. that I had, or I have, and he isn't unshakable and unmovable and he's human. And watching him be vulnerable and express concern and fear about things made me love him on an even deeper level. You know, it's like, oh, wow, the walls came down, you know. And I don't think he was presenting those walls out of avoidance, but there wasn't, he wasn't as not emotionally available, but he wouldn't let you see that side of him as much. And now there's this gentler sort of open, vulnerable side that I wasn't aware of as much as before, you know, and I think that I'm very thankful for that.

You know, it's quite beautiful sort of watching his interviews, which I wasn't present for, but the master interviews that I watched after him. I'm like, oh, my God, I had no idea that those were the things he was considering, but also the sense of humour he had with it and the humility and the sort of self-deprecating sort of nature that he had, even in discussing the most difficult things, you know. Yeah, it must be really special that you have all those tapes. Yeah, absolutely. I had, I think you said this at the start of our chat, but he had a friend of mine say,

because I was really concerned about doing this and even through it, And after we'd finish, I was talking to the director. I was like, oh, it's just a good thing if I, you know, again, I don't want to feel like this is exploiting any of this. And he said, you know, I lost my father really suddenly and never had a chance at these conversations. And the fact that you've been able to have this experience and force these conversations out of one another, what a gift.

And then so many people who were at the screening, the premiere a few weeks ago, said, said, I wish I had done this, or I am now am going to do this, I'm now going to reach out to my parents or that loved one or friend that I hadn't said these things to because it was just a reminder of the fleeting nature and of all of it, you know. Yeah, well, that's what's amazing about it, that it doesn't have to be awesome. It's like, you know, it's just about having time and space to reconnect and see your parents for who they are and who they didn't show you because they were protecting you and who they didn't want to or they weren't ready.

to and it's hard because we all have everyone has different relationships with their parents and everything but there's there's something beautiful about being able to just sit there and see them and them being at them allowing you because even like making the documentary was like on one hand I sort of we're you know where we're out to sort of understand Alzheimer's or dementia and and find the fix find the silver bullet you know um looking to reminiscence therapy looking to different medications looking at different modalities and approaches on how to handle it. And then by the end of it, it was exactly that. It was like, oh, well, this is about connection. This is universal to all of our experience. This isn't just about Alzheimer's. This is about

supporting one another and being there for one another and being part of a family and a community and that integrated connected nature of all of it as opposed to one lane with dementia, Alzheimer's, cognitive health. It was about love and support and connection. And that for me was the biggest take away, I think, you know, or equally as sort of beneficial, the connection with my dad was about what it meant universally to all of my relationships. What did you learn about yourself that you weren't aware of or that you hadn't come across before? I felt, just that I was doing something right, I think.

I know that sounds kind of strange, but I had so much doubt and criticism and concern about it. And then I was sitting at the premiere and my dad kept like holding my hand and just never done that, you know. And he was with emotional and laughing and, and I thought, oh, wow, this is like, out of all the things I've done and things I've put on screen and the things I've made, this feels profoundly important and deeply personal, but special and unique to probably anything I'll ever do again. and um and um and i don't know it a little bit of what we're saying before but i i don't walk around thinking i've sort of um i am the thing i guess i try and present of having figured it out and having this sort of um you know being entirely in control of

things i have more doubt than you know well as much doubt as anyone or more doubt than anyone i don't know but but i have a lot of inner criticism and so on and this I don't know, I felt a real lift in that and I felt like there was plenty, there are plenty more opportunities or should be to do things that have a deeper message and can resonate on a larger scale and they can mean something. It doesn't just have to be purely entertainment. It doesn't just have to be, it can have a deeper message, you know. And I don't know, I cut myself some slack. guess. I felt a sense of

sort of pride that I hadn't felt before. Yeah, I love hearing that. I'm glad you're finally giving yourself some good. And I'm not saying I'm kind of disapproving you, everyone everything I've done and, you know, walk, but I don't know, it resonated on a different level to me. Yeah.

I think that's real. I think it's real. I think that's, they just feed different things, right? In the same ways that you can make something purely entertaining that makes people have the best time and laugh and whatever it is making something that personal yeah there's there's nothing like it like i'm sure it was almost more gratifying watching your dad watch himself oh 100% than it was ever seeing any of your movies because that's how we're designed like yeah i feel like we're we're wired for generosity as humans and we're wired

for that connection so it's it's um you know when you're seeing that person that you love what's themselves. Yeah. It's way better than seeing yourself on a screen. He was sitting next to me and I spent as much time looking to him to sit as I did at the screen and at the end of the film. Something he said to me on my first ever film, I spent a small part in Star Trek and he flew in for the premiere in LA with her mom and at the end of the film, it grabbed me,

kissed me on the top of the head and he goes, you were the best in your row. And every single film I've done, he's like, you were the best in your row, you know, you were the best in your class type thing. And it's this, like, his way of saying, you know, and then he would go on and give a greater sort of summary of it all. But then I lent over to him, and I said, you're the best in your row. And he goes, yeah, not as bad as I thought it was going to be. This again, there's a wicked sense of humor about it.

Yeah. No, he comes across, I mean, obviously I've never met your dad, but he comes across, like, so lovable, so charming, so endearing, like, just, you know, just a great dad. Definitely, like, you know, he should know that. A human, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. A good, like, good people, good, good human.

And there's that beautiful picture that almost the whole documentary is kind of centered around of, you know, you and your dad. And I was wondering if you, if you would go back to that younger self in that picture, what would you say to that younger self? Um, I don't know. I'd be, I'd be cautious to say anything because it's, it's, it's, worked out pretty well, you know. The slightly older version of that kid, I'd say it's going to be okay in those sort of

worrisome nights that I would kind of spin my wheels on one subject or another and be full of concern and anxiety and regret and guilt and this kind of strange concoction of emotions. I don't know why, but I would like to appease and remove some of that if I could to my younger self by saying, don't worry. Just trust in the process. and go with the flow a little more, you know. But then again, as I said, I wouldn't change anything, so. I wouldn't want to steam myself off the path.

Yeah, it's like almost if you went back and did that, then you wouldn't be doing what you're doing today. I want the same outcome, but I want it to be less challenging. Isn't that all of us? That's so funny. That's literally it. It was like that's, that is everyone's desire in life. It's almost like never the case.

It's all, even this, even you making this documentary, it was, it was uncomfortable. Yeah. And now you're sitting back, reflecting, going, I'm really proud of it. It made me feel good, you know, sitting with my dad, like, but it was an uncomfortable journey of, do I make it, do I not? Is it, how's it going to look? And so, it's such a, the discomfort to joy arc, it's so real for all humans. And I didn't matter how many times you tell yourself, the adversity is what builds the strength,

whether it's in the gym or whether it's emotional experiences, it's like, you'll be better for this afterwards, always. Yeah, each time, like, oh, why? Why me? Why again? Why is this happening? How can I avoid this? How can I, you know? And it's like, it's a, it's a, I don't know whether you ever arrive at a place where you're just completely on board with the suffering, the challenges of the adversity. And you're like, but then if you did, then it wouldn't be suffering. So then you're not learning anything. Like, yeah. Then then you're not working out. Then you're not, then you're not actually going through it. Oh, I'm okay with this. It's because it's not hurting enough.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Give me an extra 10 reps, you know? Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, there it is. It's like when you've been in the cold plunge for seven minutes and now it's not, you've just normalized it, it doesn't matter anymore. Just in there for the ego boost.

Now it's not doing anything. You need to do eight. It's like, yeah. What do you think that younger self in that picture or even a bit older would say back to you? I think they'd be like, we're going where? You know, and have the,

and I think that often about if my younger self knew what was in the, or what was coming, they would be, you know, we're going to play a superhero, we're going to play dress-ups and we'd travel the world and be on this crazy, crazy adventure with our friends. And I think, I think they'd be, I think they'd be grateful. I think they'd be excited. I think they'd make sure I was enjoying it, you know, and not being caught up in the, the next one or the, the over-calculation of it all, you know.

Yeah, it's almost like that. almost like living life from that perspective is the only worthy one because from that lens you look at it and you go oh I'm grateful I'm happy I'm joyful and yeah and and there's some power in just looking back at your life from that younger self for sure yeah and they'd look up and go you're doing a good job you know it wouldn't have the criticism yeah it's it's like who are you you trying to better the situation for that younger version of yourself or the dream you had then or this sort of the thing you um you know the the sort of the prior imagining of it all you know and yeah and i've thought about that

before like the younger self would be wildly impressed by it you know so so should you yeah but you know you're like what am i well that's the funny part right that that that that that that that that younger self that's still inside of us is the part of us that doesn't have the criticism and the judgment and the harsh words and just has like this childlike excitement and thrill and enthusiasm. And it's still there inside all of us.

It's just you don't, you almost don't let it breathe because you kind of treat it as like not as smart or not as intelligent. You know, we've... I mean, that's a... And that is what I chase all the time in a performance setting is like, how would the what would my mindset be as a child in this in this situation what would I how vivid would

my imagination be how you know let it run wild and every now and then I get a hold of that or I find myself in that state and it's completely unencumbered with thought and the criticism and you're like flying you're in the moment you know and um and I had Downey Robert Downey to say this to me once in the scene where I sort of improvised something and something happened and he comes up and how do you feel? I said, I felt cool, that was really cool. And he goes, happens like a couple of times in the career, he goes grab a hold of it, remember it. And I was like, yeah. But what it was was that the non-judgmental childlike version of myself, you know, and I think to take that into all aspects of life, not just when I was in front of a camera, has been really important

and has been a real lesson, is to be more adventurous and inquisitive and curious and not so. much outcome-based focused, you know, just be sort of moment to moment and allowing that sort of the cheekiness of children and the sort of the slight rebellious sort of, you know, less concerned with the rules version of ourselves coming out. But like you said, you're like, well, but then it's, you know, that's, that's, it's inconsistent with how your adult version should behave and that's irresponsible and so on. It's like, it doesn't matter. I don't know.

Anyone getting hurt? No. Yeah. Well, carry on. Yeah, I think there's a big difference between being childlike and childish. Yeah, that's, yeah. And we don't often know the difference. And so we pressure down or suppress our childlike self.

Yeah. Because we're scared we might get childish. And it's the intelligent self sees the childish part and goes, oh, whatever. Yeah. But it's the childlike self that we know exists and has that power. There's this, when I'm doing workshops, I have this thing called the 30 Circles test. It's basically an A4 piece of paper with 30 circles on it. And I'll do this with executives.

across the world and big companies and all the rest of it. And I'll say, you've got 30 seconds to uniquely complete 30 circles. That's the only instruction they get. They all have a pencil. So everyone starts scribbling. There's a timer. And then the time starts going down. And then I go five, four, three, two, one.

Time's up. Some of them keep scribbling, like, you know, trying to get some more time in. And then they stop. And I ask them what they've done. And the top five answers are always, someone wrote the numbers one to 30 in every circle. The second answer is people wrote A to Z and then A, B, C, D. And then people do squiggles, people do emojis and little smiley faces, sad faces, footballs, pizzas, all that kind of stuff.

And that's pretty much it. And these are like the smartest executives, CMO, CEOs, whatever, all the big Fortune 500 companies and all the rest of it. And then I've done the same thing with kids. And with 10-year-olds usually. And I learned this from the person who built the 30 Circles test. And the kids just come up with these amazing things. And so this one boy, he put a line around it, put a little sign on top, and then put lines on the circles.

And when I asked him what it was, he said it was a bag of tennis balls because he plays tennis. And then there was this other girl who, she did all this intricate line work, like straight lines on each piece and different things. And then when I asked her what it was, she said it was a bird's eye view of a chess board. And because she loves playing chess. And then my favorite one, I always remember this one, there's this little girl who did intricate circles and curves and all this kind of stuff and asked her what it was, she held the paper like this, she goes, this bubble wrap.

And it was just like this really like childlike, you know, and you never get an adult doing any of those. No. Because we just hear 30 circles, 30 seconds, get the job done. Yeah. And you get these kids who just have this little bit of freedom still where they haven't got trained to shut that out.

We haven't, you know, deeply embedded our neural pathways around ideas and expectations and, you know, the assumption around the right and the wrong, it's, you know, the mind is wide open at that point. And, yeah, I think we all can do with a heavy dose of getting back to that time of our life. Yeah, you've been married for 15 years now, right? Yeah, something like that, is that right? Yeah, yeah, 15 years.

And you've got three wonderful children and, you know, it's like, and how old is the oldest now? My daughter's 13. India, right? Yeah. You're right. Yeah, yeah. So she's 13, yeah. Yeah.

What would you say your kids have taught you that you didn't anticipate they would? I'd like to say they taught me patience. They're attempting to take you patience, you know, because I don't know, but I'm figured it out. I mean, you talk about the ways you kind of, you know, it can be in control and be in authority in spaces and have it all figured out. And then that door opens and it's just chaos. I'm failing at every single component of this. Again, the importance of time, you know, and the things that I thought were going to bring great joy and the things that I was going to provide and give comfort security, it's far simpler than

that. It's attention, you know, they want your presence, they want your space, they want your focus. And we overcomplicate it so often with... attempts at sort of more extravagant experiences and things and yet they just want your time you know and that for me has been terrifying at times realizing how quick it's gone you know and I think I'll get to that and then a year goes by and I've done a couple of films or whatever I'm going oh wow what which part of their um you know brief childhood have I have I missed and And so they've taught me a greater awareness around the importance of this moment because their

personalities change every second and every day and every week and every month. And you're kind of, you're mourning a version of that child every month because they're gone. You know, you look at the three-year-old and you think, oh, wow, this is it. And can't wait until they're out of nappies and doing this. And then all of a sudden they're four and five and they're out of nappies and you've put the stroller away. You're like, oh, God, I wish I had that version back. And then so you're constantly saying goodbye to little versions of these people. And so just pay attention, just be here, be present.

And they don't care about the things, the sort of larger achievements and, you know, an award or a big film or this and that and the other. You know, they do momentarily, oh, that's cool, whatever, gone. And they just want you there. And that's comforting, I find, you know, because the pressure you put on yourself about those, Those, you know, more superficial sort of accomplishments and things are important on one hand, but not as important as just being there. Yeah. Yeah.

What's been the key to 15 years together? Having fun, I think, you know, both having a sort of an adventurous spirit making time for one another. I think the complicated times have been when it's been all work, all kids and all the sudden the us in the relationship is what is sort of the non-existent you know you're you're uh you're just kind of managing a household or the the work family schedule and else will be off and work and then it's chaotic kids and the kid kid time and so sort of um removing ourselves from all of that and just having time of the two of us and making space for each other rather than the rest of the world that can be so um all-consuming you know

That must be so hard, though, right, with your schedule? Yeah, it is, it is. It's, it's, um, I think it's hard as sort of for anyone, really, you know, it's all relative and, you know, we, yeah, it's challenging, but we also have opportunity to make it work. We have no excuse as far as, like, how, um, how much time we can make for each other due to the support we can get into our situation. So, um, yeah, just making each other laugh.

You know, just kind of, because there's so, there's so much over sort of focus on these kind of the importance and the intense sort of things and the big decisions. And then it's the same with the kids. It's like the stuff that really resonates and when you really get along and you really kind of feel like you're just here in this space is when there's, there's humor involved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. adventure, when there's curiosity, when there's openness to kind of make a fool of yourself and self-deprecation and all that, I think, is, that's what you can hold. There's always that spark and that attraction, but what it comes down to is friendship, companionship at the end, and the moment you run out of things to talk about and you lack

that curiosity and interest in one another is, you know, that's what it's concerning. And that's a, you know, you've got to, you keep digging, you know, sort of, again, coming to some arrival or insisting on a sort of final conclusion to it is there's a finish line then, you know, and to understand you don't entirely ever know each other and you'll continue to try and figure it out. And as you're trying to have a greater understanding of yourself as well in that experience, I think is important to keep it at the front of your thinking, you know. It allows you to forgive each other. It allows you to be more compassionate with each other. It allows you to have greater understandings for both of your shortcomings and the things we might, you know, the lesser versions of ourselves that we may think of.

Yeah, I think it's that, that, you know, has kept us in check. Yeah, I love the part of you saying when you still don't know each other. Like you're still getting to, like that's, I think, such a beautiful thing of like you're, you still believe there's more to know about this person that you see every day and live with. And you still believe, no, there's more to know. I don't know them fully. And that keeps it fresh and new and exciting because there's an acceptance

whereas as soon as you think, oh, I know them. Yeah. And I know their habits and I can kind of predict everything they do. Yeah. And there is a part of that. And that's a helpful thing. Like, oh, I know when they're tired and I know when they need space. And I know when they're hungry or hungry or whatever it may be.

And that's helpful, of course it is, but then it's also the acceptance of I actually don't know them because they're changing and they're growing and I haven't seen the mother version or the mother of three or the mother, you know, there's all these iterations that we almost think, well, no, people stay the same. Yeah. Yeah, and it is. And it's having a sort of allowance for that and a bit of compassion around, you know, do we ever even know ourselves entirely? You know, how could we ever entirely know somebody else? But you have to keep reminding yourself to be curious and to sort of embody the humility to go, oh, I don't entirely understand and know that, but that's okay. I don't have to, I don't have to, you know, I don't have to entirely, you know, there's sort of a pattern recognition and you have your expectations and so on, but having a little more openness to, and curiosity, enthusiasm to understand. understand what is it that makes you tick today versus tomorrow versus yesterday, you know,

as opposed to thinking, I know all of your tricks and you know all of mine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It takes away the sort of presumption, I guess, we have around each other, which is, you know, is often cause for complication, I think, you know. I know why you did that. I don't know why you're going to do this. And I know it's just like, then comes the eye roll and the contempt and then you're down a dangerous passage, you know.

If Elsa was here sitting right next to you right now, what would she tell me about you that would surprise me? You don't know. I don't know. I'm going to have to ask her. You'd have to ask her. I've got to have interviews. I'm like, why'd you tell them that?

That's not true. Is that where the only thing? That's the best. Does she react to it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, good ways. And then ways, I'm like, that's not true when you're doing.

I don't know Being a parent is basically a juggling act Dinner, hockey practice, homework, a last-minute science project And someone's always, always shouting for you from another room So yeah, I'll take any shortcuts that actually works

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Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little bit different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leveh, Rufus Wainwright, Remy Wolf, Mark Rebier, Mavis Staples, really too many to name. And there's still so much more to come in this new season, including the powerful psychedelic duo Black Pumas, my old pal and longtime songwriting friend, Jesse Harris, and the legendary Lucinda Williams. Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Have you had the conversation with your kids about their granddad's Alzheimer's? Yeah, walk me through that part. How do you explain it? How does that conversation be? Yeah, it's been really interesting because they're the biggest kind of lessons are the most profound sort of shifts in our sort of, our growth, I think, as individuals is around confronting moments. And it was very important for me to have them understand what was happening and articulate

what this meant and also what it meant for me, you know, rather than, I guess, protect or, you know, avoid that situation for them or that discomfort. I was kind of, it was very important. when I would talk to them about it, initially they were like, oh, okay, what does that mean? Yep, he's going to forget his memories. Okay, and then they'd go and see him. They'd go, oh, dad, he's fine, yes. And then they would come and go, oh, he asked me this three times.

And I said, well, this is what it is. And now you might have to look after me one day. And this is what we do that. This is family. This is the importance of, you know, this connection, the support we have for one another and having compassion for vulnerable, challenging times. And they've been great with it. you know, they have, they have big hearts, my kids.

I'm so thankful for that, you know, and there is an abundance of sort of compassion there. And they're like, okay, cool, what do you need from us? You know, yeah, okay, cool. And they'll rally and go around and, you know, they'll add questions and things and talk about old memories and things I've talked about with them. Yeah, and then they'll also be little maniacs and not care about any of it on other occasions. but for the most part, they've been really good. And my son, one of my boys actually at this screening was really emotional.

And it really kind of was really surprised. And then he was like in the car on the way home, like got really upset. And he said, I just love Craigie so much. And I said, well, you're still here, you know, go make sure you tell him. And he said, I am. I want to go around there more and I want to have more barbecues and ride motorbikes with him. And it was this great kind of. I think sort of awakening for him.

You know, it was real, but until he saw that the documentary, it wasn't as real. And his brother who isn't probably as articulate with his sort of emotions was, it was still affecting him, you know, and both were like, and he was sort of agreeing. Yep, yep, let's go and be with him more. And let's, you know, let's make the most of this opportunity. Yeah, that must have been amazing seeing their reaction to us. Yeah, it was, it was. And it was, I wasn't even focusing on it.

You know, it was, I was sort of right there with my dad, and at the end of it, they were there and in the car and the way home talking. And I thought, oh, wow, I was sort of focused on this moment, but now this is the next generation, you know, coming and that's sort of the transference from one of the other and the experience of my dad had and passed to me and now I passed to my kids. Yeah, it's also the power of just media and storytelling in a way that if we could, could all personalize in a world where you're not a movie star and you're not making a documentary and it's almost like I went to two friends 70th birthday parties this year and I've not known them

I've known them both separately two two different people and I've probably known them both for maybe the last 10 years if that so I've not known them for like 60 years of their life I've got to know them in the last 10 and these birthday parties were fully. with people they've known for you know nearly 70 years and it was old friends and of course their kids and grandkids and families and you know they weren't huge parties but they were they were big in that there were lots of very close people there teachers and you know business partners and just just everyone and and it was so beautiful like it was it was such a special thing to attend as someone who's not 70 years old and go wow like what an incredible

life these two people have lived, how amazing it is to see them celebrate it, and they're not movie stars, and how amazing it is for their families to have made media about them. So whether it's like a little homemade video of their highlight reel for 70 years or whether it's messages from over the years. And I was just like the power, and it's like, I've only known them for the last 10 years, but I'm like weeping at these videos not, and I haven't even been there for that long, like compared to everyone else in the room. But there's a power to that and how connected we feel when you see someone's story being told. And it makes you wonder how much more we can all do that for our families

and the people we love, even if it's not on a big, you know, you're not going to a premiere or anything like that, but how much of a need there is for celebrating people at milestones. Yeah, for sure. And kind of taking a moment to create storytelling around them so other people can appreciate them better too. Yeah, it is. It's, I think the most important thing to see one another

and to be seen and to recognize in other, others, the beauty and what they have represented, what they have given you. We don't often, you know, I mean, at the milestones of the parties and the birthdays and so on, we might, you know, offer that up, but I don't think we do it enough, you know, and it's incredibly important because you, you know, without that recognition from someone else, We don't really know kind of our effect on the world. We don't really, you know, we can assume and think this or that. But for the most part, it's a sort of imagines experience, you know.

And the actuality of it, the reality of it, when someone else taps you on the shoulder and says, hey, this is incredibly important what you've done. And this is incredibly memorable and had this amazing, profound effect to me what you said this one time. We don't, yeah, I don't think we're as comfortable saying it, or we don't sort of do it as often as we should. Yeah, yeah.

And yeah, it's a good, this, this was definitely a good reminder of that. Yeah. For sure to see it. And for everyone to recognize that you can do your own version of it. Yeah, that's kind of what I was, the whole time I was watching it. I was just like, yeah, I wish I did that with my mentor and I wish we got the opportunity. And in a good way, not in a painful way, in an excitement for everyone else who, and, you know, doing it with my mom. I remember a few years ago I interviewed my mom, not on the podcast, but just over dinner. And it was my sister's 30th birthday.

We'd gone away together as me and my mom and my younger sister. And we just, I just interviewed my mom over dinner. It was one of my favorite things I've ever done. Oh, wow. Because I learned so much about her that she'd never told me. She's 70 now or she was at that point. And it just, it was so special just to ask her some questions that she would never tell me the story about or she wouldn't, she never makes her life sound exciting or different

or special. And then you get into it and you go, oh, my God, your life is all of those things. And yeah, just, yeah, what a beautiful thing to give people the right vocabulary. I wonder with, with everything. you've been saying what what's something that you want to get better as as a man i want to slow down a bit you know i i i feel like that i have been sort of chasing something for so long and um achieving something and arriving at a point and then quickly replacing it with something else and it's afforded me an incredible life and i've achieved some wonderful things and but it's

i would love to take pause and take stock in kind of this moment more you know and and it's not to say i don't want to keep working and do achieving things but i want to be less kind of um focused on the the outcome of it, you know, and just be there for the experience and be there for the joy and the thrill and the adventure and have a greater curiosity around it without being consumed with the what if it goes wrong portion of things, you know? But it's a strange thing because as we've discussed a few times, you know, well, can you have one without the other? But I, you know, I have, this has made me slow down a lot, you know, with my dad recently and I'm looking at next year and I have films to do, but I'm turned down a lot of things just so I can be here with him more and because I know I'm not going to get 10 years down the track and go, I'm glad to do those extra three or four films, I'm going to say, I wish I spent more time with him and with my mum, you know, and with my brothers and my wife, my kids and family and friends and because it's, it's,

you know, you wake up and a 10 years has gone by. It's like, it's been fun, but a lot of it feels like a sort of a blurred Polaroid photograph, you know, I'm like, God, I just kind of remember that, you know. But I was sort of all-consuming and so busy and such intensity and such high emotions and such got a big risk, big reward, big payoffs, big loss, you know, and that's fun. and there's a sort of excitement to that, but I find sometimes there's just pure exhaustion as well, and I just would like to kind of reset a bit and recharge

and have a greater amount of sort of stillness and not want so much from a situation, just kind of just be here. Yeah. You know? Is that why coming back here was so important instead of being in L.A. as well? Yeah, definitely.

Definitely. And it was right when I had kids, we were in LA and we had a big beautiful house there but it just didn't feel like home and it was chaotic and every time I'd leave the house I was reminded of work and reminded of what I was doing or what I wasn't doing and that was documented by paparazzi and then plastered across various news outlets and so on

and it didn't, it wasn't fulfilling on a sort of a personal soul level it didn't feel nourishing at all and we came back here just just for a holiday, but in a sort of a subtle attempt from me to sort of, you know, convince my wife to move here. And it wasn't, it wasn't a hard moment. No, it wasn't a hard sell at all. She was instantly like, ah, this will do. This is pretty special. Yeah, is your dad's transition most hardest on your mum? Do you see that? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's the one that

I, has become really complicated because it's sort of, what's scary is she has the same two copies they hope how we four. I think it's a high probability of women getting it as opposed to men. So she's in an even high risk category. and the stress and the concern that she carries is incredibly dangerous, you know, and detrimental to her health. And so my brothers and I, you know, big attempt to sort of offload that as much as we can. And also watching, you know, you don't want to be in a sort of romantic, loving relationship. and then one have to be a carer. I'm going to have to be a patient. It's such a tragedy. And I think at times that's where the roles have been assigned and these good days and bad

days. But I think not being able to do the things that they used to do and not having the same connection and the same conversations that they used to have and that there's a beautiful connection and love there. But there isn't the same depth to some of the conversations and interactions they have now, there isn't the same support and, you know, obviously no one's fault. It just is sort of an inability or an incapacity to be there and provide that now because the memory isn't as, you know, strong as it was. And it's in the short term things are rapidly sort of declining.

So, yeah, we're sort of trying to implement. implement a lot of things currently for her health and for his, but also trying to allow there to be some autonomy in my mum's life as well and a bit of agency in her space. So she doesn't have to feel like she is the carer. Yeah. It's such a stranger in it, isn't it? It's like you're caring for the person who's actually unwell. Yeah. And caring for the person who's caring for the person who's unwell. Yeah. He's often gets forgotten sometimes. Peter Atia said it to me when my dad was first diagnosed. He said, how's your mom? I said, oh yeah, she's good. She's fine. You know, he goes, she's the one I'd be concerned about, you know, because your dad, you know, we can slow the regression of Alzheimer's sometimes.

We're yet to sort of reverse it, you know, but once it starts, that's the path you on. He said, your mum isn't there yet, isn't, isn't, you know, it doesn't have sort of cognitive decline, but he goes, but this is the environment where it will, it will promote, that is the stress and the sleepless nights, the increasing. cortisol and that anxiety and concern he said all of those are like that's the environment for her to now sort of be forced down that path so he said we've got to pay attention there and that was a beautiful reminder from him and he said it a number of times I gave him in contact with him a lot and says how's your mom doing how's your mom doing yeah she's definitely a big focus yeah love that Chris it's been such a joy talking to you thank you too truly just just It's beautiful feeling let into someone's life and heart in this way

because it just put so much in a perspective for all of us to hear you kind of be so vulnerable and so open. It can't be easy. And of course, seeing the documentary, you just see how much you're letting everyone in. And we end every episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Often we go off-piece because I get enthusiastic and excited. But Chris Hemsworth, these are your final five.

We ask these to everyone on the show. at least a few of these. So question number one, Chris, what's the best advice you've ever received? Best advice I've received. I remember being asked this when I was doing Home and Away, this so proper many years ago, and my answer was, be kind. And I remember the journalist at the time mocking me and saying, oh, it's like something you read on a teddy bear or whatever.

But that advice that was given to me, my mom, is just be kind. to people, be compassionate, has stayed true and been my North Star through everything I've ever done. And in its simplicity is there's some profound wisdom to it, you know. Be kind to yourself, be kind to others. It's about as, you know, if we embody just that one thing, I think we'll do okay. Yeah, I love that. Second question, what is the worst advice you ever heard or received? I don't know.

It was just be what I was afraid of. And what makes me nervous, this. I love that. Over all those tricks, I was trying to... There's a good anxiety, Chris. Yeah, exactly. The worst advice I've had, of many occasions, just one more drink.

One more beer. It doesn't work out. It doesn't work out. It's always the worst idea. The one more, it was always the problem, you know? It leads to overweight Thor. It leads overweight Thor. It leads to confused Thor.

skeptical Thor, catastrophic Thor. I love it. Question number three, what do you believe makes a good dad? Someone who truly embodies the things they're trying to bestow upon you. Someone who truly represents those virtues

that they're trying to teach you rather than you're talking about it, their behavior represents that. And that's been, has been my dad, you know, his action spoke a lot louder than his words. And he didn't necessarily speak in sort of poetic one-liners that were, you know, memorable. It was his, the way he walked into a room and the way he treated people, the way he behaved and held himself and took care of people and was compassionate, that, and he was true to his word and honest and still is and holds a beautiful amount of integrity and love and yeah someone who models their behavior honestly question number four what do you believe makes a good son being in not just

a state of receivership but also giving back you know and and i remember when my dad's father passed away. I was in L.A. and he called me. And I said, oh, sorry about your dad. And I remember him getting choked up and on the other end of the call kind of thinking, oh, wow, he's crying. I hadn't really seen him cry, I don't think, ever. And very, I was sort of listening and okay, how are you all right? And then he started talking again and we changed your subjects and we went. And then afterwards, maybe a year later, I thought, God, I wasn't there for the And then as time went on, realizing how important it was for me also to show give recognition and how important he was, rather than just him taking care of me, realizing I had a part

to play. And so what makes it a good son is also the recognition that you have a position and a place to hold in this relationship, and it isn't just to be taken care of, is also to share that responsibility and take care of one another. it's a convoluted answer that's beautiful I feel like we're living at a time where roles are so hard to understand

and undefined and it's so beautiful to just have like a north star of like as simple as it is to have like yeah your dad's a good dad someone who's true to his words and lives by example that's a beautiful simple thing that we can all try to

aspire to live towards as opposed to you know complex ideas I remember I have a friend of mine's dad who who was very well read and, you know, would quote various philosophy and and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and it was like, oh, wow, that's a really interesting. That's a great thing. And I would take it on, but he didn't embody any of it. You know, as the years went on, I was like, oh, that's, it's all talk, you know, it's not action. And, um, just to sort of see, yeah, right, sort of what I was saying before. it's, you know, it's one thing to sort of be able to spout off wisdom and quotes and so on, but it's like, do you truly, when push comes to shove, is that what you're representing or not? Yeah.

I'm trying to avoid the next question you're right. We're on question, oh, we did question four. We're on question five. This is it. This is the one that I told you by right at the top of the show that you've been thinking about the whole time. So, Chris, the fifth question that we asked to every guest who's ever been on the show. And by the way, everyone knows these questions and no one ever profess for it. So don't worry.

Fifth and final question. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? To have a three-day work week or four-day, maybe. To work less, you know? And I think we would have, I would think we would work harder and more efficiently when we do. And their entire life wouldn't be around productivity and work, work, work, work. It would be about hopefully more enjoyable experience. I mean, and the weekends are, the weekends are beautiful and needed and wanted and waited for

with such anticipation because we've worked, yes, but I think a day or two less would be universally beneficial. I have no idea how humans signed up to a five-day work week. Can you imagine when that got instated how everyone just goes, yeah, I don't know how we did it. No. Like I don't know how we ever agreed to going, yeah, we're all going to work five days a week. And in some cases, six, in some places across the world, like six, seven days, people are working and maybe the church on Sunday.

Mental fatigue and the physical fatigue and now with phones and all the other ways we're sort of, you know, now it's 24 hours, right? Yeah. There is no. There is no switching off down. Brutal, yeah. Yeah, that's a good law. I hope you get rid of phones.

Maybe one day when you're, when you're prime minister or, you know, some sort of, yeah. You can instate a four-day work. We start with Australia. It'll start with Australia. Well, you can figure out. You know how it goes. Yeah. Yeah, let's know, test it.

Yeah. Chris, it's been such a joy, honor, to talk to you. Thank you, man. Really wonderful getting to know you on such a deep level. Thank you for being so open, vulnerable, and so grateful that you're sharing you and your dad's journey and your family's journey with us. I appreciate your time, man. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. It was definitely worth coming 24 hours. Oh, thank you. It was amazing. Thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Awesome, man.

Thank you so much. Thank you. If you love this episode, I need you to listen to one of my favorite conversation. ever. It's with the one and only Tom Holland on how to overcome your social anxiety, especially in situations where you're not drinking and everyone else is. We talk about his sobriety journey and so much more. He gets really personal. I can't wait for you to hear it. It's going to blow your mind. The quote is, if you have a problem with me, text me and if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.

Hey, I'm Cal Penn. And on my new podcast, here we go again, we'll take today's trends and headlines and ask, why does history keep repeating itself? Each week, I'm calling up my friends like Bill Nye, Lily Singh, and Pete Buttigieg to talk about everything from the space race to movie remakes to psychedelics. Put another way, are you high? Look, the world can seem pretty scary right now. But my goal here is for you to listen and feel a little better about the future. Listen and subscribe to here we go again with Cal Penn on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. What up, y'all?

It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly.

The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Boo. somebody had tomatoes I'm kidding but if they had tomatoes they would have thrown the tomatoes

let's be honest we've all had those moments we'd rather forget we bumped our head we made a mistake the deal fell through we're embarrassed we failed

but this podcast is about that and how we made it through so when they sat me down they were kind of like we got into the small talk and they were just like so what do you got what ideas

and I was like oh no what check out not my best moment with me Kevin on stage on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. The show was ahead of its time to represent a black family in ways the television hadn't shown before. Exactly. It's Telma Hopkins, also known as Aunt Rachel. And I'm Kelly Williams or

Laura Winslow. On our podcast, welcome to the family with Telma and Kelly. We're re-watching every episode of Family Matters. We'll share behind-the-scenes stories about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in some special guests to spill some tea. Listen to Welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.