On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Chris Paul ON: How to Create Habits for Discipline and Consistency & Empowering Yourself Through Forgiveness for Healing

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

This episode is for someone that is striving to go after their goals.  For the person who is grieving the loss of a loved one.  This episode is for anyone who wants greatness in both career and family relationships.  Wow, this was one of my favorite episodes of all time to record. I had the great honor of speaking with Chris Paul also known as “The Point God” on the Phoenix Suns NBA team.  Whether you are in college dreaming about your future career, in high school wanting to play on the varsity team, or you’re at your day job thinking about the business you want to create... this is an extremely important episode to listen to.  We learn in this episode about how Chris studies the game of basketball, and how he preps for each game. The patterns that Chris studies can be easily applied to your everyday life!  On a more personal note, Chris came with such great vulnerability and openness. He shares the challenges and trajectories that he has overcome with grace and forgiveness.  Is there anything that Chris is not confident about?  How do you share challenging news to your children or loved ones?  Most pivotal to his life, He shares with us his experience of the tragic loss of the closest person to him, his grandfather.  Today you will learn…  -How to establish a strong work ethic?  -How to teach our children discipline? -Have you ever feared the unknown in your career? We learn to navigate the “what if’s”  -The ways that we can honor grief and those that we love  -How to face life’s challenges head on and learn how to forgive? -How to learn from the people before us in order to construct our lives in a way that we want to be remembered by?  -Is it possible to be successful in career AND have a balanced family life?  Don’t miss this incredible journey about perseverance, hard work, and forgiveness. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Also…If you love this episode, you will really love my episode I did with Kobe Bryant linked here. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:19 When losing, not everyone can get up and restart again 04:33 Chris explains what he means to “live the game” 06:24 You need to take a break to actually live your life 07:31 Some things you pick along the way can become a habit 08:54 Even when it seems like you’re the weakest, you can become the best 10:53 If you want to do something, you have to work for it 13:20 Give your children the chance to learn the experience that shaped you 20:41 When is sacrifice necessary when you have young kids? 24:26 When things don’t work the way you expect them to but you “can’t give up” yet 26:42 How do you keep your focus around reality? 30:15 Listening to obituaries on the radio and the realization we can get from it 32:10 When was the first time you have dealt with death? 36:17 What’s the lesson you carry with you until now? 40:14 Can you both have career success and be with your family? 43:03 Close family ties and familial love in the midst of chasing success 44:57 Learning to treasure every relationship you have in your life 48:24 “People make mistakes, sometimes even bigger than others.”  54:27 Dedicating your success to the people that have the greatest impact on your life 59:13 How do you navigate the “what ifs” in your career? 01:05:11 Chris on Final Five Episode Resources Chris Paul | Twitter Chris Paul | Instagram Sixty-One: Life Lessons from Papa, On and Off the Court Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down an honorary to kidnap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, haven't comment. They're all real women who were left out of your history books. You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast. Check it out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling

unusual questions. Like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eugelman on the IHART Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The therapy for Black Girls Podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make

to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care. People are always going to say something. Always they're going to try to have some type of narrative, but as long as you know what's real, I think that's what can help you keep your sanity. The best-selling author and host.

The number one health and wellness podcast. On purpose with Jay Shetty. Chris Paul on purpose. Thank you for being here, man. I am so grateful to you because you just said season finished yesterday. The next game is in six, seven days, which we'll talk about. But the reason we're here is to talk about this incredible book that you've

written, your memoir, an ode to your grandpa, 61. I read the book, cover to cover. And so, what I want to say to everyone who's listening and watching, whether you know Chris on the core or off the core, I felt like you were personally sitting with me, talking to me throughout the entire book. I literally felt like it was just me and you in the room. So I felt like I've already had this experience in a weird way. And what I'll say to everyone who's listening and watching,

who's, you know, I hope you're all gonna go and grab a copy of the book, is it is one of the most genuine memoirs that I've read. Like it felt, it really felt like it was coming from your heart. And the best thing about it is you get to understand you on a different level to just the game. And so I just want to take a moment to say, man, that I think it was really well done.

It was so personal, so real. And I literally felt like I was like, this is just my friend talking to the man. It's crazy, Jay, that you say that. And first and foremost, thanks for having me. And you probably don't notice, but I think you probably the first person that has told me that you read it from beginning to end. You know what I mean?

Because it's not even out like that. Now I don't really get a chance to talk to people about it too much. But it's crazy to know you written books, oh, and not this is the first one. I've done children's books, never anything like this. And I have a newfound appreciation for the process, for the entire process of the different versions

and the very first time, if I be honest, the very first time when I got the first copy back, I was like, oh no, they're saying it. They're saying it. And it was because I had someone who was helping me with it, right? But when you're talking about your own life experiences, you want it to sound like you. So when I read the very first version, I was like, this don't sound like me, you know, and I started from scratch. I could literally see the service station.

Like, I can see the places, the way you describe them, like the people, the characters, I literally felt like I was there. And I think that's, that requires all that detail and that texture and the, you know, it's your lived experience. And so I felt like I was living that experience with you. And so every question I ask you today

is me wanting to know a bit more about you from different angles, different perspectives, parts where I was like, I'm so lucky that I get to sit with you and actually ask these questions to you. So let's dive in. I want to start off with just setting context for people. Seasons just finished. You're heading it off into the playoffs.

Like, how do you prepare at this time to big, a huge start for you? You talk about hard work ethic in the book all the time, but how is this different? Or how do you set yourself up? Yes, wow. This is my 18th season, right, in the NBA. And it's been a lot, right? A lot of good things have happened, but a lot of unfortunate bad things have happened. Lost his injuries and all of this.

And it's crazy, I usually have like this dead date, right? Honestly, like we usually have this dead date with everybody that works with me. Where we'd be like, look, Chris would be doing meetings and all this stuff until this date, and then we just lock in, you know what I mean? But doing the book and everything, it's been cool and getting a chance to do this is really cool.

And so when you lose it something, right? Like one group of athletes I've always thought about is Olympians, right? Like, Olympics happen once every four years. All right, and if you trip, like in that race, that's it. You got four years to you can get ready for it again. But see for us, like when we lost last year in the playoffs, you know, you feel that heartache and that hurt.

And it's like, I can't wait to next year. And now finally next year is here. And also we got five, six days to get ready for our first game, but it's it's none like it. Yeah. In the book, you said you think the game. And when I read that, I thought that was interesting to me. I've sat down with so many athletes on the show and behind the scenes as well, but I'd never really heard anyone say it that way. What does that mean today? What does that mean right now? Yeah, that means, do you do anything? Do you like play cards at all? I used to, I mean, I used to play soccer right now. That was my favorite sport.

But like, even if it's soccer, if it's Connect 4, right? Like I play dominoes. I play ping pong. I play ping pong. I play any and everything. And in everything you do, you have to have a strategy. Right, whether it's a card game or anything, and you just have to think different layers. You can always play, right? Just play, but if you can think the game too. And so me, like I was up this morning,

like as soon as I woke up this morning, before I called my kids, I was on YouTube, like looking at clips. I got to go to YouTube and I'll look at, or I go to this website that'll show me every shot I've missed or made since I've been in NBA. So like I'm literally always watching,

trying to learn, trying to see how I can get better. So that's what I mean when I say I think the game. Wow. So you're literally going YouTube, typing Chris Paul misses, and then watch the report. This is a website actually called Second Spectrum. Okay. That you can go do that, but I can go on YouTube and look

at this particular game. So we plan to clippers in the playoffs, right? So I can go look on YouTube, they got everything on there. I'm sure everybody know that too. But you can go look at all of my shots that I played against the clippers this year. Wow. And you just study.

Study, study the game, study who I might be guarding, study your opponent and all that stuff. So then, in the game, of course, talent and all that stuff. But at some point, you still got to be able to think and sort of everybody has tendencies. Yeah. We play 82 games, right? There's certain things that guys do on a regular basis, so if I can learn that and figure that out, the better.

Yeah, I love that. And I saw that in your book, too. It's like, it's almost like you're observing patterns. Right. Like, there's all these patterns, and that's what you're saying. Like, there's patterns over 82 games. And when you start spotting the patterns, it's hard for people to break them. And so they're going to keep repeating that. I can't imagine the things that you learned in the hard experiences that you had, right? But you know there are certain things that are staple for people that are successful. Yes. You know what I mean?

Like you've got to work hard, you've got to have some type of discipline, right? Or else whatever you want to see coming to existence is just not going to happen. It's like they always say, what is it? I'd rather be lucky than good or something like that, but you still got to have the work that they to see it through. Yeah, what have been your, do you have like a set morning routine on game days and prep days or do you kind of intuitively figure it out? Like what, what are you like?

Are you that disciplined beast that's just Set up to win or do you feel know what? Good friend of mine JJ Reddick He he does a podcast now. He talked so he was my teammate, but he's retired now Earlier this year he was talking about how sometimes a routine can drive you nuts Right, and I sort of got into that mode because I didn't play so long. I didn't felt like if I don't do this particular thing, I'm not sure what's going to happen tonight. You know, especially how many games I play, like I'm serious. I used to have so much anxiety like, oh man,

if I didn't do this before I run out on the court, got some injury might happen. I mean, I used to have this crazy routine for the past few years. Like I would get up, I would eat breakfast, go to the gym, shoot around might be a 10. I might get there at 815, do all the stretching, workout, shoot, and go home. I would get bodywork from like 1115, 1130 to like one o'clock. And then I would lay down, had to be at one, get up at three, shower, get dressed, eat, get in the car, go to the game. You know, it just made for a long day. Honestly, on a game day, it was a long day.

And so I stopped doing necessarily the bodywork from 11, 15 to one just to give me some time to live. Honestly, to just be, maybe like watch a show for a little bit when my kids in town chill with them or whatnot. And it's actually been like liberating. But for so long, you just like, I gotta do this, I gotta do that and it'll drive you nuts. Yeah, and it sounds like that's the way of it though, right?

Like the reason you can take that break now or what's that show or catch up with your kids is because of that investment you put in for like 15 years, 16 years. Sure, sure, but you also realize that sometimes you got to break up the monotony of that routine or whatnot just to get yourself a break. Yeah, I think that's going to help a lot of people listening because I think there's so many people listening right now who are stuck in their routine and don't realize how much it'll drive you crazy, especially

in what we do. Now, there's certain things, there's certain handshakes that's got to happen. A few things not going to change. When they call our name out for the starting line-ups, I make sure I tap up all my teammates, then I go to the slant board. I make sure I put my foot on that three times. I make sure I get the chalk, rub my hands together, clap together three times, hit the back, stand chin. I got a lot of routine stuff that I do. I like hit my chest, then I look up and say what up the Kobe, and then we do the jump ball.

Some of that stuff not going change, but some of the other things or whatnot, you have to look at your situation and realize, how can you be, I don't know, intentional with your time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do you feel like all of those things you just mentioned that aren't gonna change? There were things you picked up along the way because of wins and slas, where did those originate from?

Yeah, so it's funny, it's funny you asked that and being on a team for all of my life. You know, I've been on a team since I was five years old. And so when you find these little things, they sort of just happen, right? So you're out there with your teammates and you come up with a handshake and then somebody like accidentally do something and then you like, oh, I like that. We gonna keep doing that. We gonna keep doing that. So all these things just sorta get added along the way. You know what I mean? So like before, before I leave the locker room, I also do like a one, two, three,

and a bunch of our team trainers, they yell it with me. I do one and a yell two, three. You know, so that stuff just sorta picks up and you keep doing it. That's amazing, man. One of the things that comes through your book is you talk so much about hard work, confidence, you know, seeing your own potential when no one else sees it,

being able to bet on yourself, having that confidence. And even today I can tell there's, but at the same time with that confidence, there's this humility in your book too, because you talk so much about the teachers and the coaches and the mentors and you talk about this idea about how no one's really self-made. Right. And so you have this great balance between this confidence and this humility.

I wonder, what was something that you were insecure about as a kid? Was there anything in your life that you weren't confident about or things that made you doubt yourself a tour. All types of things. I mean, I was small, right? Well, some people will still say, I am, you know what I mean? In my profession.

I'm small, yeah. In my profession. But, I mean, I was a little brother, right? So I had my older brother and all his friends would pick on me. You can't do this. You can't do that. I played football. I mean, I was on my AAU basketball team. with pick on me, you can't do this, you can't do that. I played football.

I mean, I was on my AAU basketball team, I think I'll talk about this in the book, and everybody on my team was on varsity, except for me. And so, I was a little bit slower than some of the other guys. I mean, one of the most embarrassing things was back then, our team used to run out for warm-ups. And back then, our parents had chance in all these songs they were singing. As my teammates, we ran out to the court.

Everyone would run and smack the backboard. Everybody smacking the backboard. I couldn't touch the backboard. I would have to run by the backboard and just get back in line. I just had this conversation with my son the other day because I told my son he's gonna be vertically challenged just like me. And so one of his biggest goals is to be able to dunk.

Right, so he asked me when did I dunk for the first time? I was a junior, I think I high school and I dunked for the first time. So he was like, I'm a dunk before that, I'm a dunk before that. And I told him I'm cool and fine with that, but I also want him to develop the actual skills of like playing the game.

I feel like so many times now, kids just wanna be able to dunk instead of learning actually how to play the game. How did you make that difference for yourself growing up? Because I feel like kids are always kids, right? You grew up watching Jordan and you wanna, you know, so I feel like everyone who grows up watching anyone, we all wanna stand that way in the tape, right?

And so how did you stop yourself as an athlete when you were coming up to refocus just as you're encouraging little Chris to do? It was just different and I say different because and it may be because of my circumstances and my situation, right? And seeing my grandfather, right? So I saw how my grandfather provided for my family

in so many different ways, especially financially. And growing up the way I grew up, I always wanted more. Like I wanted more, not just like financially, but I wanted to see things and I wanted my family to see things. And I don't know, I've just always been very competitive and my brother helped make me that way. But I just, I mean, still to this day,

like I really don't take no for an answer, right? Like there's gotta be a way, there's got to be a solution. And if you tell me I can't do it, then we gonna see about it. You know? And so it was a drive about it and it was a drive to just want to be better in the curiosity. And I don't know, like I said, it was almost subconscious watching my grandfather work, right? So I played football, my coaches were hard on me, you know, and I just knew if I wanted to do something, I had to work.

Yeah, that work was just obvious through your grandfather. He just lived it every day. And I'm, you know, when you took the kids back to see this devastation in the space, that part of the book is really special because you reminded me, so I was nine years old when my dad took me back to the home, he grew up in. And my dad's home was probably as big. His home was as big as this room,

like cut off that part as well, like none of that all the way. So his whole house was this big. And it was in India where he grew up. And so he took me there. And I remember like walking outside, there was a lot of like trash on the floor. There were like rats running around. There were cockroaches inside. This big bat floor on my face, like had my bat in that moment.

Like I was like, other nine year old kid, it was bat floor on my face. And it was Batman moment, like I was like, other's nine year old kid and this Bat Flo, my face and it was disgusting. My dad put out my eyes and then we went in this house and it was literally this big. And I remember my dad was telling me how they shared like a toilet with like 30 families. Like he grew up in like, you know, immense poverty. And it was just one of the best experiences

of my life going there. It's a nine year old. So when I was reading about you taking your kids back to your grandpa's service station, the space to grow up, I was like, I know how formative that's been for me. Walk us through what their reaction was. Your reasoning actually. Everything that you just said is so valid. And if I be, if I'm going to be very honest, like, when you're a kid, you only know what you know, right? And so the times that something was going on, and I see my grandfather pulled out

water money out his pocket, I used to start tripping. That's a lot of money to me to anybody. And so, like as a kid, you want things. I mean, when we was in the car, and we went to McDonald's or something, right? Or say you went to Wendy's. I don't care where you went. Like, if you went to Wendy's, we want the big-sized fries, right? Like, we want the extra large fries and the extra large soda. We couldn't do that. And I'm saying, like, my parents just wasn't doing it because we didn't have

the money to do it. And as a kid, I watched movies too. Did you ever see Richie Rich? Yeah, of course. Yeah, really. You see Richie Rich, you see that movie? What was it? Blank check. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, as a kid, it's like, hang, I'm trying to see what that'd be like. Yeah. Right. And so, of course, you want things, you want things, but the biggest thing that I learned is when I got

to the NBA, right? And you can get those things. They don't complete you at all. Like, they don't. But what you start to realize is that with the money and the finance at times, you have an opportunity to change other people's lives. So that's when the work really just sets in.

It's like, all right, I wanna keep working because I wanna keep providing and helping others or not. So when it came to my kids, they live a totally different life than me and my wife ever did. Right? And so, this is so crazy. Like I'm picturing these real conversations that I have with my kids because for me and my wife, like, I wanted something different for my parents, right? And the hardest thing is trying to figure out

how to get my kids motivated because they can't get me on my wife in the house. You know what I mean? They just can't. And so it's constantly just making sure that they have their own motivation. What's gonna motivate them? So I wanted them to see why I am the way I am.

Cause sometimes they just see mom and dad or they just see me, but they got a chance to really go see why I get mad if the trash ain't taking out. You know, because growing up, I was having to cut the grass. We were having to fold clothes, wash clothes, do all these different type things. So that's one of the challenges as a parent

of how do you instill some of these things in your kids? Yeah, and throughout the book, you see just how conscious and intentional you are about the kids. And again, I think there's this healthy balance where like there's a lot of love for them. And you get that it's not their fault that they didn't have that experience. Yeah, but at the same time, you want to help them. And I think that it's such a hard balance to do, but it sounds like because you and Jada are taking it so thoughtfully and intentionally that I just see it all the time. Like the amount of celebrity kids who also feel the pressure, a to be like their parents in their field, that's already a pressure. Second of all, there's a feeling,

which I don't think a lot of people realize, but there's a lot of feeling of guilt for kids to be like, well, I didn't deserve this, so my friends don't have this, so like, I didn't do it. And then on the other side, which you get is the entitlement as well. So it's so much, it's so much that goes into it, man. And I think the only thing for us that we've always tried to do is at least communicate with them. And don't make them guess or try to figure it out on their own. And even though I'm here somewhat giving advice or what not or talking about my memoir,

I'm always looking for advice. Some of the people that I've looked to as mentors or what not, most of our conversations have been on parenting because this thing don't come with a manual You know, it doesn't and I'm constantly learning adapting trying to adjust because kids for sure will Will like test you, you know, and I think it's been the best test that I've ever had because they show you how to love unconditionally and It's the it's been the best test that I've ever had because they show you how to love unconditionally.

And it's the best ride. Yeah, the part in the book that really got me was when you're, because I don't have kids yet, and me and my wife have been together for around 10 years now, and we moved from London to New York to LA, and now we live in LA, but the last seven years have been, we've been around, and in our own way, obviously, I'm not moving how you are, but still kind of that feeling of not having a home. Right. Now we know we live in LA and we're happy there. But

I often think about like how my kids will have a different life to the life I had, even in, so that the point I'm picking out of your book is when you're leaving L.A. And you're talking to little Chris about, and he's really upset about it, like, because he's made his friends and he's going to miss him. And you can relate to that as a kid. It doesn't matter who your dad is. It's like, as a kid, it's like, your friends are everything. You're scared about what it's going to be like going to a new school.

I think that's when you're moving from L.A. to Houston. And you're just, you're scared about what it's going to be like going to a new school. I think that's when you're moving from LA to Houston. Yeah. And you're just, you're feeling this discomfort and I love what you say to him where you're like, I need you. Yeah. And I thought that was amazing to hear a dad say like, I need you. It wasn't like you need to do this for me or you got to, you know, just just fix up and be strong and man up and how did you recognize that that was the conversation? And Jay, I'm very visual.

So even as you're talking to me, like I'm envisioning when it happened, we were in my office and my house in Calabasis and I'll never forget his face, ever. It was tough. And like I said, I grew up around the same friends, right? Like, me and my brother got a group chat with our homies back home that we grew up with.

And that is probably one of the coolest things about my childhood. Whereas, I know, to each his own, some people moved around a lot and they gave them the ability to be flexible to different cultures and this and that, but it was cool having a home base. And so, when we left and Chris said that, it was hard. having a home base. And so when we left and Chris said that it was hard, it was really hard, which is why we ultimately made

the decision when we went from Houston to OKC to let them stay in LA. And it's always gonna be hard. That's what you understand is that there's no perfect life, there's no perfect family because in trying to give them stability, now the last four years because in trying to give them stability, now, the last four years, I've been without them. So I think what always ends up happening is somebody got a sacrifice, right?

And if anybody going to sacrifice as far as my family go, I'm going to make sure it's me, you know, and that's how we got to where we are now. Yeah. And how do you stay strong in that time? Because I get that too. My wife and I have spent a bit of time apart every year as well, because her family, both of our families are from London

and they live in London and on the SNF you are there or sisters are there. So my wife misses family a lot. And her family is like fuel. Right. And so we end up spending quite a few months apart every year. And I wonder, how do you stay strong how do you Kind of like what do you work on to make sure that you're filled up as well because like you said it's a sacrifice

But at the same time you have to take you have to be the one looking for tips and everybody say every day I'm telling you is it's so hard and I and I tell you I think that The biggest thing that I try to do is make sure that I'm not too emotional in front of my kids. Because my kids are special. Like my son is so thoughtful. And my daughter is the same way. And it's so different, right? My childhood was my dad was coach and all that. My mom was a team mom, so my parents never missed anything. I think probably one of the coolest interactions was

we played in LA maybe like a week and a half, two weeks ago. And my family came to the game and my kids were standing outside the locker room. And I had no clue they did this, but when a few of my teammates left, they saw my daughter and they was like, can we be watching your baseball games? We be watching your basketball games because I can't be there. I literally be in the locker room before game. My iPad is set up. My wife is video in the game and I'm doing my stretches and exercises before the game and anybody is in the locker room

They can hear they can hear my daughter's game going on so to see My wife told me how much my daughter like she just lit up knowing, you know that I'm I'm not there physically But I'm always you know at least watching and trying to when I can't. I feel like kids feel that presence, you know. I always felt like my parents didn't have a lot of time for me. They were both immigrants working hard, trying to put food on the table, but I always felt their presence because when I was with them, or when they did see me, there was a real connection there. And I didn't need like eight hours a day, 10 hours. I didn't have that luxury, they didn't have that luxury. But even if it was for those couple of hours every day.

I say that all the time, man, I'm so aware and conscious that like kids, my kids now 13 and 10, they're very smart, they're very aware that if you used to get them a gift, say you're a big time person or something, you get them a gift and somebody that works for you, got them a gift, your kids, you can't fool them. But they would much rather have that time. So when I'm in town or whatnot, if I get a day off and I go home,

the best time for me is taking my kids to school, right? That 20, 25 minute drive to school. And then even the fact that my daughter still lets me walk her in, those I think are the most priceless moments. I'm in a drive to school and then even the fact that my daughter still lets me walk her in. Those, I think, are the most priceless moments because one thing that I learned during quarantine was that was the first year that I lived away from my family, right? I was in Oklahoma and then the shutdown happened and we all went home for a while. And it was just crazy because even though my kids might be doing their own thing They felt comfort and I was like on zoom trying to set up the bubble right because I was the union president

But they felt comfort and doing their own thing But they knew if they looked out the side of their eye that they could see me in my office Right, so just the awareness that you might not necessarily be right there next to them all the time But just the fact that they know you there still wearing it. You might not necessarily be right there next to them all the time, but just the fact that they know you there. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences

by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities. Like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagelman, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Debbie Brown, and my podcast, Deeply Well, is a soft place to land on your wellness journey. I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental health around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey. From guided meditations to deep conversations with some of the world's most gifted experts in self-care, trauma, psychology, spirituality, astrology, and even intimacy.

Here is where you'll pick up the tools to live as your highest self. Make better choices. Heal and have more joy. My work is rooted in advanced meditation, metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves, the more we are able to bring our creativity

to life and live our purpose, which leads to community impact and higher consciousness for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Big love. Namaste. Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, full in love, make mistakes, and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade? I'm Gemma Spagg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships, and much more,

to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences, incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science, and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life. Join me as we explore what our twenties are really all about. From the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our twenties. The psychology of your twenties hosted by me, Gemma Speg. Now streaming on the iHotot Radio app, Apple podcasts or whatever

you get your podcasts. Yeah, well said, well said. And going back to one of your rituals, I was just thinking about this. You said you can't give up now on your shoes before you got to play a game. And I was thinking like, what is that? You know, 18 years is a long time to dedicate professionally and then what to speak of all the prep and everything else that goes into it. But what does it feel like to get traded,

to feel down and out, to feel like it's not going in the direction you want and then to can't give up now? Like I find that that kind of pivot, for some people it breaks them and for some people it makes them and for you any sort of pivots If only taking you further and further and further for you to perform and pursue at a higher level

What is that because I think people look at you and even when I read your book I was just thinking You're working really hard at basketball. You're really working out of your family You're working out of being a dad. I'm like this guy works hard at every area of his life like there's not You're trying to yeah, I respect that. You don't come, of course, is you're perfecting it, but there's this energy of like, I'm thinking about how I'm raising my kids and thinking about my family relationship.

But then when the career part is having it's hiccups and slip ups and whatever else in the past, what did you find when you get that con give up now? Where does that come from? So I tell you what I came from was, when I got traded from Houston to OKC, to be honest, I was mad, really mad, because I've been told one thing and another thing happened.

And when I went to Houston, we moved like 15 people to Houston, right? So to not know and to know that I was going to Oklahoma City, I was hot, I was in August of Georgia, and I didn't know what that meant, right? I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know what was next. It was the first time I've been blindsided with something like that.

It was a song by Mary Mary, right? It's called Can't Give Up Now, because like I said in the book, I grew up in church. I was in church four or five days a week. And I remember listening to that song and like getting emotional and it was like, look, the trade didn't happen. The ESPN, everybody talking about it or whatnot.

I learned this a while ago in the league is that ain't nobody gonna feel sorry for you. And like you said, I've learned that too in this business that there's two different type of people. People who go and feel bad put themselves in just salt and then there's other people who go and get to work. And so that was my mindset. It was like, all right, I think I'm done, all right, cool. I got I put my head down and do the work. And so that was, you know, my whole energy going into that. How do you differentiate between what the media is building

as a narrative versus your narrative? Like, how do you, I find like athletes, that's what makes the athletes job a million times harder than even playing the game. Especially now with social media where there's so much chatter, so much conversation, how do you keep your focus around this is reality and that's just one? I'm crazy you said that because I learned something about myself even a few years ago, I can't have that clutter, right?

And when I played back in LA, I think I said this in the book too, with the Clippers, Doc Rivers, he used to talk about getting rid of the clutter. Right? So when you get home from a game, if your team lose, everybody is with your family and all that, what they gonna do. If y'all lost the game, what they gonna say? Yeah. I hope you're okay. Everybody else is fault. All right. All right. If you lose a game and you get home, everybody and your family going, they gonna be like, this person wasn't doing that, that person wasn't doing that.

They ain't never gonna say nothing about you, right? And so that's literally clutter, right? And the same thing I've learned years ago in the playoffs, like in the playoffs, you gotta win four games out of seven, right? And I don't care what anybody says about social media or whatnot, but if you win a game in the playoffs

and you go on the social media and you had a great game and everybody talking about you, like you the best thing since Pants with Pockets, then you might let your guard down, right? In the same thing, if you don't have a good game and you go out there and everybody's talking about how sorry you are, you might lose a little bit of confidence. So for me, I try to block out all of that noise. You know what I mean? So that's like when the playoff start, I don't wanna see what ESPN talking about.

I don't wanna see what Blitcher, I wanna see what none of them talking about because you gotta just stay locked in and stay focused. And as long as you know what's true, you know what I mean? People are always gonna say something. Always, they're gonna try to have some type of narrative or whatnot, but as long as you know what I mean? People are always gonna say something. Always, they're gonna try to have some type of narrative or whatnot, but as long as you know what's real, I think that's what can help you keep your sanity.

Yeah, and I think that's one of the hardest skills for anyone, let alone someone who a lot of people in the world are talking about. Like that's, you know, I can imagine that affects kids today. I'm sure kids feel at school and you see that with them at school. And see, this is the thing I'll tell you, and I'm not a parent coach, anything like that.

I can only tell you my experience, but what I've learned with social media with kids, right? And having a 13 and a 10 year old is that when I was growing up, if a girl didn't like you or something like that, you dealt with it at school. All right, once you went home, you don't have to deal with it. Right, you just saw her at school the next day. Now with phones and social media and all that,

one thing I know is that these kids are dealing with things all day long, right? It could be on Snapchat, it could be on Instagram or whatnot. And if us as adults, if we can't handle that mental capacity, like I said, I can't handle that. Like I'm on Instagram, but I'll go weeks without even looking at it.

You know what I mean? Just because I feel like, you know, with our stories and stuff like that now, we ask people how they doing. We already know what the hell they did for the last three weeks. You know what I mean? So that's just me. Yeah, yeah.

There's, I wanna shift here because there's, what I found was really special as someone who was reading your book and just, again, like I said, learning so much about you, it was like, you said that your grandpa, you know, you said, and courage you to listen to obituaries. And when they came on and you'd, it, it tell you more about that person too, like, yeah, this amazing memory you said.

Yeah, it was, it was weird and kind of strange because I could what know, like, I phones were the alarm went off and he knew to do it. It's like everybody would be working and my granddaddy would just be like, cut on the bitch wears. And so does somebody hit the little radio player, the song would be playing, it's like kind of morbid. And they would just start naming off the people who had died. Right? And I mean, everybody out there working and you might hear Mr. Ulysses or Bo or somebody say, oh such a such die. They didn't know.

And my granddad might start talking about one of them, but because I talk about my grandmother dying when I was seven. That was my first time being faced with death. And then it's crazy. It was a funeral home in our hometown called Russell's funeral home. Like once every two weeks or whatnot, they would bring their fleet of cars up to the service station because they had like a, it's crazy to think about now.

They had a business account with my granddad service station. And so just, it was a lot, man. All right, that's why I still don't deal with death well. You know what I mean? To see the, the hers is pulling there and, I don't know with death well. You know what I mean? To see the horses pulling there and I don't know, it was different. Yeah, it's, you said that with your grandmother's passing, you were like, I never really got over that.

Like, and I think that's, that's so real for so many people. But like you said, like people often say, like, I know how you feel, but no one can know how you feel because they didn't know that person. They didn't know your connection to them that experience like You dealt with that so early on at seven and like you said you didn't you never really got it got over it Now when you look back on it, is it something you even want to get over or is it something that just stays with you?

It's I think it just stays with me because I Tell you like right in this book was also like therapeutic because some of the stuff I'd never talked about. And so, might have been a week or two ago, I was talking to my parents and was just asking them, like, I was like, that, I was like, when was the first time you dealt with death, right? Because my kids are 13 and 10, and they have it. The only person I think that they've seen pass away, I can't what is my wife's grandmother. And so, I would say the less you have to deal with that, the better, but as soon as I go to a funeral, all those emotions from when I was seven,

they come right back, they come right back. They come right back. And it's something about the closure aspect of it. And somebody not being there anymore. I tell you something really cool. My dad, when I grew up as a kid, videoed everything. Every one of my games was VHS, all of that. My dad found a bunch of those tapes and he had them converted into DVDs.

And so recently, maybe like three weeks ago, he sent the DVDs to me. He hadn't even watched them. And I put one of the DVDs in and I was watching it. And we used to have events all the time at this place up the street from my house. And I was looking at the video and I was like, what is this? And I kept watching it for a while, and my granddad walked in. It was actually a video from his 60th birthday, right? Literally just three weeks ago,

came across this, and it was like emotional watching it. And I started filming some of it, because I hadn't heard my granddad's voice in over 20 years since he passed away. I took a video of it and I put it in my family group chat. My mom called me and she pulled over to the side of the road and she was crying because you don't think about stuff like that.

You know what I mean? My kids, they know the story of my grandfather, they know all of that, but they had never heard his voice. My wife, I didn't know she had never heard his voice, right? So to have this footage now and my brother talked, it's wishing them a happy birthday. And I'm anxiously watching. I'm like, man, where am I?

Where am I? Because you see everybody setting up and then you see somebody say, all right, everybody be quiet. He about to walk in because it was like a surprise. And so when I heard somebody say that, I was like, oh, I must be bringing him in to surprise because we used to be together all the time. And then he walks in and out on, see myself.

And I'm like, where am I in this video? And that's my brother's giving his happy birthday speech to my granddad. He says if Chris was here, he would have said the same thing. And then I like just this whole feeling came over me because I wasn't there. And I called my mom. I was like, mom, where it was?

I was, where it was. And she was like, you had to be at an A, you turn them in. And so it was crazy. Like I was getting emotional again because I was like, man, that's sort of been a story of my life is missing stuff. You know what I mean? But it's crazy. Like I said, death and all this stuff, you just, you never get over it and you're not reminded of it until you face what it again. Yeah, thank you for sharing that story, man. I mean, that's like the,

who I mean, to be reminded of being absent because you're pursuing your dream, but then, you know, the stuff, like you said sacrifice. You said something has to be sacrificed, but I can't imagine what it felt like to, you know, reconnect back with that memory through finding an amazing tape, but then feeling like you're not there. Especially at this time with the book coming out

to finally see that, that was really cool. I mean, I got my little cousin, AJ, and T'Coy, who like 29 and 27, they had never heard AJ had, but they were kids, what I wanted to die, so they hadn't heard anything. Yeah, yeah. What do you think was a lesson? There's so many lessons in the book that you learned from your grandpa and that, that I, you know, I think people should read the book for to learn the depth of it. But what's the lesson that you think you carry in your heart the most that stays with you right now till this day that you feel lives with you? Man, it sounds so generic, but I say the work ethic, right?

But it's crazy because I could sit here and say, you gotta work, you gotta work, it's the work ethic, but I'll also say it's the balance, because it's the one thing that I also learned about my family and my mom said this, and I never even thought about this aspect of it, was that my grandfather worked so hard, and I think I said this in the book,

that that was all he knew. So he never actually, I wanna say enjoy our family, but he never like went on vacation. You know what I mean? And I'm not saying you gotta go to another country or something like that, but just try to make sure that there's balance and make sure that, of course, you gotta work, work, work to provide,

but make sure at some point you take some time to enjoy the people around you and your family because my mom said that the one time that my granddad actually went on vacation was when my grandmother was about to pass away. And so it wasn't until he seen that he was gonna lose my grandmother that he was like, okay, I need to do something with it.

Yeah, and you talk about how like, he used to finish work at like 7 a.m. to 7.30. And then he started ending at 6. Yep. He was saying like, to some people, that may not be a big thing, but to your new family, that was huge. I was huge.

Because all you saw him do was work. I always saw him do his work. And when my grandmother died, is when anywhere he went, I try to go with him. I try to go with him. And it's tough, man. I got to keep saying, my mom is unbelievable. Because I mean, I'll be 38 in a few weeks.

And I still got mom and dad. And it's not till I got older. And I started, I was be 38 in a few weeks and I still got mom and dad and it's not till I got older and I started like I was like, man, mom, you lost mom and dad, you know, so I can't imagine that. Yeah, and how did they process it? Because you say in the book like, oh, you know, we don't always do therapy We don't always talk about it like have you helped them with their grief while you help yours Do you find it useful as a family to connect or is it? You know it's crazy. I don't think my parents have read the book yet. I'm so excited for them to read it I want them to read the book

But I also want them to listen to the audio book because I did the audio book so they can actually hear my voice and I think when they read it They probably don't learn some stuff about me that they probably don't know. And I know my family is extremely emotional and a lot of times we're all working. We're all on the move. We're all on the go. But I think it's going to be something cool to talk about once they read it. Yeah.

What do you think is going to shock them the most, the surprise the most or something you think that they're going to be maybe even is there anything that would make them uneasy? What do you think? I don't think anything's gonna be uneasy. Some of it would probably be funny. Because I talk about some of me and my brothers, like childhood growing up, my parents never talking to us about sex, all this different type of stuff. But it's gonna be real cool.

And I think they'll probably, I mean, I try to tell my parents how much I appreciate them all the time, but hopefully, they get of a fill in it at through the book too. Yeah. Do you think you were talking about the hard work and the balance and it's such a, it's something that I think all of us who are ambitious or obsessed with figuring out, right? You want to put everything into the thing you love, the thing you were born to do. And at the same time, you realize it's meaningless if the family, the relationship, the friendships on there.

We always hear the two down, like, no one wants to be lonely at the top, or it is lonely at the top. And so do you think that makes you sacrifice success, or do you think that is success is to be able to have both? It depends. It depends. If you can have both then that's probably the ultimate goal, right? To have both. To have that success and have that balance. But the thing that I'm always battling

with, right, is that 18 years of my life, I've been in the NBA and that is a blessing, right? I want to be there. I want to be there for my kids' events. I want to be a dad just like my dad was to me because I'm not where I'm at without my dad sort of cultivating that and being there. And then there's this other side of it too, whereas if I was the retire, right? And stop playing, knowing that I still got a lot left

in the tank and still got the passion and whatnot. Would I be this amazing dad that I want to be if I gave up my own passion, right? So that's the hard decision. That's the hard decision that everyone has to make all the time. And I constantly have those conversations with my kids and my wife about it. And we ultimately sort of decided that they wouldn't like the person that's at home

if I stopped playing prematurely. Yeah, that's so real, man. I think that's the biggest realization of how if you're not living your purpose, the person you become is a figment, a little tiny piece of who you really are. And then everyone's getting that leftover version of you. Exactly. And so it's crazy. You just never know. That time, you won't get that time back.

It ain't like you can stop playing in the N call to NBA in four or five years Be like yo pick me back up, you know, but also you don't get that time back with the kids So you so we all trying to figure out yeah If you were in that tape if you were there at that birthday What would you have said oh man? I'm sure it's a tape somewhere from one of those other birthdays But I know I would have just talked about how my granddad was my best friend, you know, and how I was happy for him to be there. And I probably would have said something about him not having his teeth in, you know, in that

video, in the video that I seen of him, he didn't have his teeth in his mouth. So as soon as I seen him walk in and his whole face was closed up, I was like, where's my granddaddy teeth at? But I don't know. And it was crazy for me because like I said, I'm watching this video, not knowing what it is. And then when I see it's his 60th birthday, knowing that he died literally the next year at 61, it was crazy.

So I would have definitely just told him, you know, how much I love and appreciate him and probably try to get him to move in with us again. Hmm. What do you think is the lesson that if he was here with us today that he'd still want you to learn or something, he'd be poking at you out for?

Oh, man. What do you think he'd be coaching you on right now? Probably all the text that I get my temper. Oh, yes. But I know, I think the biggest thing in my granddad would be proud of if he was still here was just that our family is still together. You know what I mean? I think that's the biggest thing that he'd be proud of because he had, uh, he had my

mom and he had my Aunt Rhonda, right? And so the fact that even in LA, that's where my wife and kids live. So my brother lives. That's where my, Rhonda's kids, AJ and Kory lives. Like all the holidays, we all still get together, even after all this time. And I think that's what he'd be most proud of. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like, when I'm reading the book,

I had the, the birds I view know of what had happened in your experience, but then to read it and to get the real context of the depth of your relationship with your grandpa, which then when you read about what happens, you're like, you know, that, that like, it gets you, right? Like it gets me, I wasn't close with my granddad at all. I never, I barely met my dad's dad

and I was never really that close to my mom's dad. And so I didn't, I don't have, I can't even say I know how you feel because I don't even have that context, but I felt close to your relationship with your granddad because of how you describe him. And then, I mean,

there's no words to describe it for it to happen just in the most tragic way that you could lose someone you love and The way you find out the way you rush over there like Yeah, that that whole moment when I'm reading it was like I Can't imagine how tough it is to relive that for you as you're writing it out and why was it so important to share that piece and Why did it mean so much to important to share that piece?

And why did it mean so much to you to share that piece? Yeah, I think it was important for me to share it just selfishly. It was for me too, you know, to talk about it. And also to show why I am sort of the way I am and why I'm wired, the way I am. And I don't know, keep learning little things. Like throughout the book, throughout the process, I write in a book. I was having a call and ask, like, my mom some questions.

Like, that's how I found out my granddad's name was, uh, chilly. Like, we called him papa chilly, but call my mom. Luckily, my granddad still has a few siblings that's still alive. And that's why I'm so important to ask our grandparents and things like that question. So we know our history. And I don't know.

I think it was just great for me. Obviously I want a lot of people to read it. But sometimes I was almost in the book, just talking to my family. Because even being away from home, I've been living in Winston-Salem in 18 years, and that's where all my family is. Like you were saying, your wife, like, London and what I grew up around all my family. So in some parts of this memoir is me talking to my family back home that I've been away

from from a long time and just letting them know how much I appreciate them, how much I miss them. Through a lot of these experiences too, it's taught me, I really treasure the relationship that my kids have my parents and my wife's parents. Right? Because my dad, my mom and dad, they are not the same people that raised me. They are not the same people that raised me. Right. They are not. The way they be so nice to my kids and, you know, my son in the backyard shooting basketball when he was younger and he breaking left and right. My mom was just yelling, good job baby.

No, that is not what you supposed to be doing. But there are times when my kids are doing something and I get on them and I see my dad then like be easy on them And I like you wasn't easy on me But because of my grandfather in that relationship I get it Like I get it when my parents would get mad at me or I get my butt woke the first person I call was my granddad so I'm grateful for that because those relationships are really important and

I want to make sure that my kids have that bond that I had to with my granddad. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets. The depths of them, the variety of them, continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets.

When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am. I needed her to help me. Something was gnawing at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a piece missing. Why not restart? Look at all the things that were going wrong.

I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season eight of Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Not too long ago, in the heart of the Amazon rainforest, this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life. I saw it and I saw, oh wow, this is a very unusual situation.

It was cacao, the tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun, but you saw the stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex, it sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate. We're all lost, it was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs, they left their lives behind, so they could search for more of this chocolate. We're all lost, it was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs.

They left their lives behind, so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle, and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building armed with machetes. And we've heard all sorts of things, and you know, somebody got shot over this.

Sometimes I think, oh, all these for a damn bar of chocolate Listen to obsessions wild chocolate on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast A good way to learn about a place is to talk to the people that live there There's just this sexy vibe and Montreal, this pulse, this energy. What was meant as seen as a very snotty city, people call it Bosedangeless. New Orleans is a town that never forgets its pay. A great way to get to know a place is to get invited to a dinner party. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Newton and not lost as my new travel podcast where a friend and I go places, see the sites, and try

to finagle our way into a dinner party. We're kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out. I would love that, but I have like a Cholala who is aggressive towards strangers. I love the dogs. We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but we also learn about ourselves. I don't spend as much time thinking about how I'm gonna die alone when I'm traveling. But I get to travel with someone I love.

Oh, see, I love you too. And also we get to eat as much. And we're so sincere. I love you too. My life's a lot of therapy goes behind that. You're so white, I love it. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's, I'm so happy to hear that. I'm so happy to hear you feel that your kids have that. Yes. To the old parents and Jada's parents because when they wake up, when my parents are in town and my kids wake up in the morning, they run in there first. Yeah. They run in there first.

And I see the weight of my parents light up. And it's seriously, like I literally look at my parents and I think back to my granddad and how he must have felt. Yeah. look at my parents and I think back to my granddad and how he must have felt. Yeah. It's so crazy. It was since 2023, my dad is 62 now. And so when my grand, I mean, when my dad turned 61 last year,

it was like crazy emotional for me, because I was like, man, this is how old my granddad was when I lost him and it's crazy to see like my dad. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And for them to have him in the health and greatness. I think the part that really blew my mind is you saying how you found a way to have empathy empathy and some sort of forgiveness for the four individuals that assaulted your grandfather. And I think having to relive it again when the case gets opened up again, to deal with it up into

2021, I think it was. Having to go through it is the worst thing anyway. And then to have to relive it again and for it to be open up and for innocence to be the topical conversation and for then again for it to close. Like, for you to be in a place where you said, it's taken you a long time, but you feel like there's a certain level empathy. I'm like, that is, I mean, the walk us through the journey, not the end because the end is the hard part, but...

Yeah, the journey's tough, because in the immediate reaction, oh yeah, like I said in the book, I had some family members who was going to handle it themselves, but it was, I don't know, it took a while, but then you start to realize, no matter what happens, he's not coming back, right? I couldn't get him back. And I don't know if it was just getting older or the way that I like watch shows, you start learning about the prison system and all this different type of stuff. And you just start realizing that people make mistakes,

sometimes bigger than others, but being incarcerated for that long of a time, you know what I mean? If you can show that you're remorseful and everything that's happened, that's when I definitely think you need a second chance at this thing. Did you ever receive any remorse or apology or any sort of thing from them or that never happened? No, never. And what's crazy is, like I said, when that case got reopened, that was one of the first times,

it was the first time that I actually started finding out details about the case. Because you think about like I said, I was in college and my parents wouldn't let me go. They wouldn't let me go to any of the court hearings or anything like that. And over the years, I'll tell you my unruh-ronda, she the one that be on top of everything.

And it was a few times that I used to ask her. I used to be like, until you show me what the boys look like. And she would pull up a picture or whatnot. And that was like hard to even look at. Because you start a question and asking why like, Hill, why would you do this? But as time goes on, you just, you just try to heal. That's that's huge, man, to never hear the apology in remorse and to almost accept an apology you never received

in order to rise above. I mean, that's like, I mean, I was going to ask you, what do you think is the toughest thing you've ever done? That sounds like the toughest thing anyone's ever had to do. Yeah, for sure. Definitely one of them I said, I think it was the unexpected situation as far as my granddad and in the book, like I really like detail. You know, when traumatic things happen, you sort of tend to remember everything down to I remember scuffing my Jordans.

You know what I mean? Right there about a gym. And it was crazy. It was just a whirlwind how everything happened. That went from the best day on the 14th seriously, like a movie, the 14 signing my letter of intent to the 15th that happened. And you start to realize that, I don't know,

like I'm right here thinking about it. Yeah, I love that. I take time. When people call you sometimes now or whatnot, like you always hope for the best, but expect the worst, you know, when somebody says, yo, this happened, you know what I mean? Even though that one situation happened is sort of almost gets you on edge

whenever something happens. Yeah, well, I think that the book is genuinely, like, it's a beautiful dedication to your grandpa. Like, it is like, I can't imagine anyone in the world who wouldn't be super proud to be honored in that way. Like, it's such a beautiful honoring of a person that you loved. And I don't think I've ever read a memoir

that felt like an honoring of someone else. Yeah, I appreciate it. I really mean that. It's like, I was reading, I was like, you know, obviously you shared, do you do share so much about yourself, but so much about yourself is in him from him. And so, you know, to read something with someone on his, like, almost offering your life as an honoring to him is to do that in the memoir. It's very, very special. It's like very special. How many books have you written?

Written out two to the moment that. Oh yeah, this is one. Yeah. And that took a while because like you said, I wanted you to be able to feel like what I was experiencing and what I was going through. And it's cool. It's really cool. It's really cool to hear that you read it out. It sort of made me nervous when you said that too. Because it's probably not always going to be the best or whatnot. But if somebody can draw any experience from it, right?

Any experience from it. And I think that was a weird. Yeah. And I didn't mean to scare you. I just wanted you to know. You know, I just, I feel like when I started to dive into you and it, I was just like, I just needed to feel like I had a real grasp of what you'd gone through to honor you in this way as well.

Like sure. And I said down with someone, I feel like I'm trying to, to some degree, appreciate honor their life because it's my ability to also capture you as a human. And even the name, like, I remember when the book first came on my desk and I was trying to figure out, like, I didn't get the physical version, but the digital version. When it first came to me, I was like, oh, 61, interesting. And I started diving into everything around it. And what did it feel like when in that game, you, you know, when you talk about all the feelings that rush through your head of like, oh, that's the record of Jordan at 67.

And, you know, I feel like when you're in that place, so many things are flashing in between your eyes. Like, walk, just walk us through that. It was crazy because, like I said, the high school that we played against was my mom's old high school parkland. And the most high school in the game up to them might have been like 34 or 36. And I know that when death happens or things happen for me a lot of times, I get quiet, right?

And a lot of times that's because I'm just trying to collect my thoughts or trying to breathe or I don't necessarily know what I'm always thinking. But I knew that I wanted to try to honor my granddad somehow some way. And I didn't want everybody to know. I wanted those people to just like try to get it done, get it done.

And when it happened, and I had 59, and I drove, and I scored the 61st point, I think about. That was 20 years ago, right? 20 years ago, so I couldn't foresee that I would be in the NBA, all this different type of stuff, but that was the highlight, right? And I just never forget being so tired and exhausted because emotionally I'd been drained, right?

Had literally been drained and seeing my dad over there on the bench and my brother, whatnot, just made it that much more emotional. And I knew right then that all my family was in town or whatnot, and that's something that would always connect us for the rest of our lives. Yeah, I think for so many people who went through something like that 20 years ago

It's easy to For all of us in the outside to look back now and see how incredible it is but for so many people that would have been a very valid reason to give up on their dream or for it Not happen because it you know it derails you and it can derail your life and that would be completely valid but to actually look back at it now and go, this career is dedicated to this person through your lens, it's remarkable to think that you can find the courage to step up again and go from that. So I think it was even crazier for me probably

at this point in my life is that I've actually been without my grandfather longer than I was with him. And I never think about that. You sort of just live or whatnot, but there is literally almost nothing that I can do on a daily basis that I don't think about him. And what's crazy is in the book, I think I said something about one of his favorite scriptures being Philippians 413. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And that video I just found when he's standing up thanking everybody for coming to his birthday thing.

He says that. Wow. And he gave me goose bumps. He says that in the video. So one thing about it, I'm going to tell my to keep keep finding videos because this is it's really nice to have. Yeah, and that's not the watch though. That's a different one. No, isn't the watch. But Vacheron, right, this is a 2 2 2. Yeah, I literally got this watch because it looks like the one.

Yeah, where you described that was like, yeah, yeah. And where you described it, I was like, yeah, yeah. This watch looks like it. And I mean, I think I'll talk about how strict my parents were growing up. They was no earrings, nothing like this or what not, no tattoos or what not. But last summer, I got this tattoo right here with your Chevron logos, right? For my granddad.

Yeah. I love getting to do this because I, even just sing with you right now. I'm like, I'm thinking, my, I'm so grateful that I came out today to sit with you to have this opportunity because, you know, it takes a lot of courage to sit with someone and for them to open up in this way and obviously you have a book to do it. And I was really fortunate to have the same we have a book to do it. And I was really fortunate to have the same experience just sit down with Kobe in 2019. 2019.

2019, yeah, 2019 it would have been. It was literally like two months before his tragic accident. So I got to interview him and we didn't know each other in the same way, we don't know each other. But I felt like there was a real connection. It was such a gravitas in such a presence when he spoke and just his demeanor with the team and just everything. And even today, like, you know, I think when you talk about not being able to play with

someone, but knowing what could have been, but you again, even today, you were like, you look up and, you know, on a room in that way. How do you navigate what ifs in your career? I feel like that again as an athlete is such a skill because there's so many what ifs. What if I did that, played it that way, played it this way, and so talk us through that because I think even in life, that's what your whole book about, just for everyone who's listening, Chris's whole book is about what is granted to him off the court, which applies on the court and then on the court lessons that apply off the court. And there's this beautiful synergy. But I think there are so many people listening and watching right now who live their life

in what ifs. Yep. And you've had a lot of what ifs. That's the big one you call out in the book. How do you how do you breathe and live through that? You know what, it's 24 chapters in my book. You know what I mean? As a tribute to Kobe. You know what I mean? And I was actually on the phone with Adam Silver yesterday and I brought up a Kobe quote talking to him and I actually talked to Vanessa every now and then too.

That's probably one of the coolest, if not the best award that I've gotten since I've been in the NBA was a year before last, they started a Kobe and Gigi award and I was able to get the first one that they did. And so, Kobe was just different, right? And the way he approached things, but the way we competed against each other. And I think in the book what I keep talking about when you say the what ifs, right? I always say if there was one thing that I could change in my entire career, it wouldn't be wins and losses.

It would be how I rehabed after my very first surgery, right? So I had surgery on my monezka back in 2009, right? And I was so young, 2009, 2010, I was so young at the time that it was like, all right, they did the surgery. Okay, I'm gonna be fine. Right, didn't really take rehab that serious because I was just so young,

it was like, okay, they fixed it, I'm gonna be fine. But because of that, I've had so many different things over my career, different hamstring, things or whatnot. And me and my agent was talking about it the other day. But sort of the story of my career has been the different situations that have happened over my career, how I've learned from them. So I injury that I had.

It taught me something and I was like, okay, I'm going I had, right. It taught me something. And I was like, okay, I'm going to figure out how to, how to just go make me better. Right. I get traded, or whatnot. Okay, they feel like I ain't performing well enough, or I'm not playing enough games. How is this going to make me better? So, every time something has happened, right. You know, I got to talk about in the book, the craziest thing probably, one of the craziest things in my career was that injury in Houston. When I got hurt and we were a game away from going to the NBA finals. And so had that not happen, had I not hurt my hamstring that year and then hurt it again

the next year, I don't think I still would be planning to leave right now. Because all of that stuff was a wake up call to me. It was like, I got to change something. I got to change something. I got to figure this out. And once all that stuff happens, right? So if you sit around and I tell you this, if you sit around and dwell on that,

what if too long, somebody gonna pass you by. So if you sit over there trying to figure out what if somebody else over here is going to take your job. Yeah, definitely. And I love that idea of this happened, what can I do better? This happened, what can I do better? That mentality of like continuous improvement and re-dedication as opposed to... Exactly, instead of what if, it might be what's next.

You know what I mean? Cause yeah, you can sit back and chill and me and Cole have every now and then be like, man, we play together. We play together. Yeah, but everybody can't do it, but I can compartmentalize that. I can talk about this, what if, but I'm still, you know, I still got my eye on what the goal is. Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of us this, what if, but I'm still, you know, I still got my eye on what the goal is.

Yeah, yeah, I think a lot of us live in what if, but we all have to learn to live in what is. And then what's next, as you said, because that's what we have. And I love hearing that it's great, but what I appreciate is, it's a nuance, it's really subtle what you just said there, and I want people to appreciate it,

because what you're saying is, I can feel this way, I can compartmentalize it and I can move on and I think that's super healthy because I think a lot of us pretend like we don't have what ifs. Right. Like it's easy to, and I love what you just talk about, but do you enjoy it? It's a lot, it's very easy to walk around and I've got no regrets, I have no what ifs in my life.

But the truth is we all have them. And if you don't address them, they're going to come up somewhere. Exactly. But you're saying, no, you have it, compartmentalize it, and then focus on what next. Right. Because otherwise you're going to be sitting around telling them high school stories or whatnot that they don't know about the care about them more. Yeah. And that happens to all of us. We can all live in nostalgia and walk down memory lane. Chris, this has been such an honor to sit with you. Is there something that I haven't asked you

or something that's in your heart and mind right now before I have a couple more questions? But is there anything that I haven't asked you or something that's in your heart and mind right now that you really want to share that that you feel I haven't touched on? No, just the appreciation for this and being able to talk and tell my story

through the book and I hope people can really feel that it was really about that. It was about letting people understand and know about me and make sure that people understand that, look, my family, like anybody else has got their issues. Everybody isn't all like loving and all this stuff on each other at all times. I mean, extended family or whatnot, but at the end of the day is my family. And as long as you try to work through different things with you and yours, I promise you,

you'll appreciate it in there. Yeah, I love that. Well, Chris, we end every on purpose episode with a final five. And these ones have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum, but I always change the rules. So we'll try. Chris, what's the best advice, and I'm guessing it's going to be from Grandpa, but what's the best advice you've ever had to receive? Never delay gratitude. I was actually from my college coach, Good Process.

Walk us through that, actually, I wanna hear more. Yeah, never delay gratitude. And that means, if you're grateful or thankful for anything, be sure and tell people, be sure and tell people, like, I don't care where I'm at, what's going on, whenever I get off the phone with my parents, my wife, my kids, or whatnot, it's always, I love you. You know, those times when you say you're going to tell somebody something in the morning

or something like that, like you just never, you absolutely never know what's going to happen. So never delay gratitude. And that was a coach who said that to you. How did that apply to sport and why did, why did he introduce it? Because that's so interesting to get from a Like a basketball coach. Yeah, so I talk about coach process. Yeah, of course He's he's one of the most three most influential men in my life and he just had all of these sayings right never delay gratitude

If you can't be on time be early Don't be a two to four guy be afford to And it was just all these different things. And the reason that never delayed gratitude, thing how it related to sports was, it's hard to win a game, right? It's hard to win one game, let alone make it to the playoffs. Like our coach the other night, when we clinched to make it to the playoffs, in the locker room, he just told everybody, he said,

listen, I'm grateful for you guys. We always talk about gratitude. It's a lot of teams that's going home and going on vacation, but don't take it for granted that you get a chance to play in the playoffs. Yeah, that's awesome, man. I love that. I think a lot of young athletes who are listening

or if you have kids who are young athletes, that's great advice because often that kind of softer touch is missed. Like, you don't think it's there, so. But when I say never to let gratitude, also mean for like, kids to your parents. When I'm at my basketball camps, I always make all the kids stand up and turn around

and tell their parents, thanks. Because like I said, in the book, my dad spent his entire 401k on me and my brother playing travel basketball. So that's where these kids, they get to go do all these camps and all this stuff and don't delay gratitude. Tell your parents, thank you,

because every kid's not getting that opportunity. Yeah, actually, I want to take a side note on that, because one of the things I was blown away by in your journey is just how much purpose and giving back and service is such a big part of how your foundation, the way it's set up, when you walk through the murder of, and the death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, and then how you're dealing with it in the bubble.

And of course, with your role at the time, and you talk about how you changed the messaging three times. They went from peace to, I forgot what the other one was saying. Say your name. I think it was equality. Yeah, yeah, to, I forgot what the other one was saying. Say your name. Yeah, say it was equality. Equality, yeah, correct, yeah, yeah, exactly. And, and you shift through it. And I was just thinking like, there's just so much intention in your life.

With all the work that you've chosen to do, what's been kind of like a meaningful fruit or result that you've seen that has really. It's a, it's a lot of different things. And I'm fortunate to have an amazing team that works with me or whatnot because obviously, dealing with a lot of different things on a given day and trying to be the best athlete that I can be, but they're constantly bringing different things saying, hey, would you like to support this or could you do this? And I'm always trying to as much as I can.

And I think the most valuable thing that I have is time. So even if it's before a game or after a game, given a young kid an opportunity to watch me warm up or taking a picture with him and just giving him your undivided attention for five minutes is one of the most valuable things that you can do with anybody. Yeah, absolutely.

And I just want I wanna read this out because it's so, it's so powerful. So last March, Chris was the only athlete appointed to President Biden's advisory board on historically black colleges and universities. And that's been, I mean, that's incredible that you've become a spokesperson and a champion for that.

Is there some of the work there that's resonated with some stories that you think? Oh, man. Supported so many. Yeah, well, we got a lot of different things. What we've done is, me and my brother a few years ago, and then Carmen actually did it too. We went to this business class at Harvard with Anita Elvers,

a Ben's class, business education, management, sports, I think. And after going to that class at Harvard, we were like, why isn't this curriculum or course offered at HBCUs? And we got to work and Anita helped with it. And now we have that course at a few different HBCUs. Wow. All right, so just always trying to figure out how we can make some type of impact. Equality again. Exactly.

Equal action. Equal action is education. It's incredible. I'm glad we went there actually. A second question. What is the worst advice you've ever had to receive? Worst advice that cheese tastes good. Cheese is disgusting. Like seriously, I've never had a cheeseburger macaroni and cheese none of that is disgusting. I thought you do my cheese isn't money. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no even on pizza. No, no, no, no, I'm cool. No cheesy fries. No, okay

My brother when we used to get home from school He used to go in the refrigerator and get the block of cheese. What is that? String cheese kind of like I think I know a little bit. I don't know. He used to have to take plastic off the side Yeah, I'm doing that we We're putting mucous, all in his body and hands. Oh, so question number three, how would you define your current purpose? You know, basketball and athletic, that's what I do not necessarily all of who I am, but just, just trying to help make a difference in different aspects of life, whether it be HBCUs, whether it be health and wellness.

I think that's been a big thing that I've become passionate about the past four or five years is trying to figure out how to make some of these health things more accessible, right, and make people more aware. Like, I'm always curious about this, that, whatever it may be, I'm always curious about this, that whatever it may be, I'm so curious about water and the things that people are eating and all these different type things and trying to make sure that other people

become aware like I am. And the other biggest purpose is whatever I have to do for my family, right? Whatever I have to do for my family, especially? Whatever I have to do for my family, especially my wife and kids, is just trying to figure out how I can continue to coordinate them. Question number four,

what's your reaction to the title point God? Oh man. Oh man. The point God thing has been, it's crazy. I don't even know when it started. I don't even know when it started, but it's a privilege, right? Like an honor, basically, that people see you playing the game the

right way. Now I think some like worshiping thing or whatnot, but I get really like kind of shy and bashful when people say that or whatnot, but it's cool to be even in that consideration and playing for as long as I play. Fifth and final question. If you could create re-austers to every guest who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Take it time. We, one law, that everybody in the world had to follow what would it be and take you to There's no that's everybody got to get them guns up man. Everybody everybody come turn them in everybody come turn them in Everybody so we got some beef or something like that or somebody got to do something

You got to fight it out. You got to fight it out. I don't know. That was the first thing Yeah, that's awesome first thing in my head. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you. Chris Paul, everyone. Chris, incredible memoir 61. Make sure you're on grab it. We're going to put the link and the comments

and the captions across the board. Wanted you to go read this book. If you're already a fan of Chris, you're going to love it. If you're learning about Chris through this, you're going to love it even more, because it's truly a remarkable story of love of sacrifice of connection of Generations passing on beautiful lessons

You've got like four five generations in the book being talked about so I hope you go and grab a copy of 61 Chris Paul it's been a pleasure and honestly down You're you're you're you're a real one man. This is like this has been one of my favorite interviews Honestly because you're so present, when I was sitting with your book, it felt that way and to sit with you and to watch you thinking and to watch you visualize it and to watch you telling it from memory.

And then for you to share that story about finding that tape or your father finding that tape, I mean, just really grateful, man. Thank you for this. Thank you so much, you Joey. Thank you. Thank you, man. If you love this episode, you will love. Thank you, Jay. Thank you. Thank you, man.

If you love this episode, you will love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose. Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve. Imparence and coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave. Hey, it's Debbie Brown, host of the Deeply Well podcast where we hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness

around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your wellbeing journey. Deeply well is your soft place to land to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Namaste.

I am Jan LaVanzant and I'll be your host for The R Spot. Each week listeners will call me live to discuss their relationship issues. Nothing will tear a relationship down faster than two people with no vision. Does y'all are just floppin' around like fish out of water? Mommy, daddy, your ex, I'll be talking about those things and so much more. Check out the R-Spot on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Getting better with money is a great goal for 2023.

But how are you gonna make it happen? Ordering a book that lingers on your nightstand isn't gonna do the trick. Instead, check out our podcast, How to Money. That's right, we're two best buds offering all the helpful personal finance information you need without putting you to sleep. We offer guidance three times a week and we talk about debt payoff, saving more, intelligent

investing, and increasing your earnings. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them make progress with their financial goals. You can listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts.