On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Daniel Kaluuya: How to Respond When No One Believes in You & Why Other People's Perception of You is Not Your Reality

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Do you want to know how to respond when no one believes you? Do you know other people’s perception of you isn’t your reality? Today, Jay Shetty sits down with Daniel Kaluuya. Known for his role as Fred Hampton in Shaka King's American biographical crime drama film Judas and The Black Messiah, Daniel won the 2021 Academy Award, British Academy Film Award, and Golden Globe Award for Best Actor in Supporting Role. His feature film writing debut with Netflix, The Kitchen has received positive reviews. While football is a well loved topic between Jay and Daniel, the conversation shifted on Daniel’s earliest childhood memories that left an indelible mark on his life. We uncover the roots of his resilience and determination and his unwavering interest in writing.  Daniel looks back into the challenges he faced for having dark skin and offers his insights on how to change our mindset around racism. We will learn about the cost of chasing our desires, the inspiration behind “The Kitchen”, and the transformative power of bringing ideas into existence. Together they unpack the importance of making peace with people's perceptions, and the courage it takes to share your work and passion with the world.  In this interview, you’ll learn: How to pursue your passion How overcome your limits How to turn ideas into reality How to develop resilience Join us on this soul-stirring exploration of life, growth, and the resilience that lies within each of us. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:19 Earliest Childhood Memory That Changed Your Life 06:07 What Would You Do When No One Believes In You? 08:51 How the Interest in Writing Started 11:52 Learning the Art of Improv 14:25 Shared Love for Football 19:27 Getting Shamed for Having Dark Skin 23:37 How to Change Your Mindset Around Racism 25:41 Standing Up For the Decisions that You Make 27:46 The Cost of Wanting Something is High 30:25 The Inspiration for The Kitchen 33:54 Exposing Why People Live the Way They Do 38:36 Overcoming the Fear of Making an Idea a Reality 43:16 The Power of One Idea 48:21 How Bringing Things into Existence can Change You 52:29 Making Peace with People’s Perception of You 58:51 Sharing Your Work and Passion to the World  01:01:36 Daniel on Final Five Episode Resources: Daniel Kaluuya | InstagramSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only. Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose. Thank you so much for coming back to listen to another episode. Today's guest is an actor, a writer, producer.

You'll know him from so many of his blockbuster successes. I can't wait for you to listen to this interview with Daniel Kaluuya. I always like starting with this question because I think I'm intrigued to see where you take it. Like, what would you say is your earliest childhood memory that defines who you are today? There's one, yeah, there was one, I grew up quite a fat kid, yeah, and then used to go scouts, cubs and scouts. You go into like, I don't know, some random place in the countryside,

going into a camping or something, and then like this potholes, you know about potholes, but you go in there, boom, boom. It's like, I run through this, I run through this potholes, yeah. And then like, I'm doing this pothole holes, when you go in there boom, boom. It's like I run through, I run through the pot holes, yeah. And then like I'm doing this pot hole, boom, boom, going in. And like everyone starts laughing cause I'm fat. They was like, oh, like Dan's not gonna fit, Dan's not gonna fit. Now go in there and then halfway through, it gets narrow and narrow and I proper didn't,

and they looked in, bunch of kids were like, I must have been nine, eight. They were like, he's filled with the whole thing. They just laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing. And then I was like, all right, cool, I can't really go back. So it's only really, and I'm actually have filled it. So then I was like, all right, cool.

And I just found a way to, I was just like, I knew how to like change my body and go, I'm gonna get out. I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. And then I realized they were laughing and then as I was getting closer and closer to the exit, they just stopped laughing.

They stopped laughing, they stopped laughing and about the end they clapped. And I think after that I was like, right, yeah. I don't know, I look back and go, I think it really changed how I saw everything. My life I go, what is, what are you to me? I just was saying, it's like, I kind of felt how the energy was like,

just push through, just do what you're supposed to do. Just do what you're supposed to do and you get to the end. And people that will say things, that will tell you, say you're weird, say you're odd, by the end of it, not that they'll clap. You can make them, I don't know, it doesn't matter about them.

It just matters about you getting there. You know what I'm saying? And I think a few years ago before then I really cared about the clap. Like I really care like I'm gonna make you clap. I'm pissed by I'm gonna make you clap. I think in that moment I saw my character. I saw what I'm actually about in that moment.

And yeah, and then they just respected me. Yeah. And at the end of it, I gained respect. So yeah. Yeah, and you think that still applies today? In all ways. Yeah, man. Like, do you know how many people say you can't do something?

Pfft. That's right. Everything's made up. Shit, that even makes sense. What have you been told that you couldn't do? Name it. Like anything I'm doing now, I've told I can't do it. I haven't told I can't act. I wouldn't be able you couldn't do? Name it. Not like anything I'm doing now. I've told I've been told I can't do. I haven't told I can't act. I wouldn't be able to make a career

out of it. Connections. It's on parkway. Like in Camlin. Connections. Yeah. They were like saying, and my mom was just stressed like, which is you want to act? I've got to talk to some people there and they were like, you ain't going to make it. I said, well, I think I can. I know I must've been 15. I said, can you know? He said, no, no, no, no. So it's all that kind of stuff. Like you're consistently kind of told that like, it won't happen.

And I just didn't believe that. So that's why I really would keep it secret. What I was doing on my dreams and my hopes on my alien hopes, like what I see. Like if I can see it, that means I can do it. So it's more that like, everything, everything, like you told you can't do, even like being away from race, even the class that I'm from,

like saying, oh, you can't do that. What are you talking about? It's nuts. Like, I just, I've always just been like, but then that was very much the mentality of my school. Like it was basically, all right, cool. You ain't got money. All right, cool. Let's sell chocolate bars. All right, cool. You ain't got money. All right, cool.

Let's sell chocolate bars. All right, cool. Let's sell crisps. It's just like, you've got to make it work. No matter what. So I've always come, I feel like I've come from that cloth. Yeah. Did you find that keeping it secret was useful?

Yeah, cause it meant that I was able to fail in private and just grow at my own pace and have it, and basically what it was, I realized in hindsight and acting and writing and all this kind of stuff, I realized I found what it meant to me. I found what my definition of is, I found my style, I found what I liked. That was, so it was mine. It wasn't like, oh, I got it from here, I got it from there. It's like, no, this is what I think. This is how I've got to this. So that's like why I'm happy I did it. Cause I felt like in hindsight,

I felt I was a bit too ahead of people that I was around in terms of what I was focused on. Cause it's quite odd if I think back, think back. I was like, yeah, no, I'm coming. I'm gonna do this. Oh, like, it's like, you mean it's like, no one think back. I was like, yeah, no, I can't make it. I'm gonna do this. Oh. Is that what you mean? It's like no one in my family is doing it.

No one's doing it. But I just think I can. Do you understand? So it's like, so I think it's that, yeah. Yeah, where did that belief come from at that age at 15 to go, I can't even know what I'm saying. Like where did that inspiration come from? Was it from what you were watching?

Watching Fresh Prince. Yeah., was watching Wayne's Brothers, I was watching like, I don't know, Sponge, no Sponge was a bit past one. Simpsons maybe? Simpsons, Edd Edd and Eddie, like I was watching, Edd Edd and Eddie, yeah. I was watching life, like do you know what I'm saying? I wasn't really like, I don't know, I just believed.

I don't know, I just kind of was like, no, I don't believe you. Yeah. I don't know, I just believed. I don't know, I just kind of was like, no, I don't believe you. Yeah. I don't know you. Like back in the day, I was like, see, I don't remember John Major, yeah? Yeah, of course. Prime Minister, like, they said,

he told me to do something, I'm like, but I don't know him. I can't even, how can someone I don't know tell me what to do? Yeah. Kind of nuts. If I know somebody, like Jermaine is like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's why I nuts. If I know somebody, like, do you mean it's like,

so that's why I was like, I just always, no, I realized, I think I just, I'm blessed I have faith. And I think I just have faith. And I realized I read something the other day and I think the difference between faith and delusion is God. And I'm not saying like, oh God, it's just like, I just have faith, like I just had faith. I just believe. And I think maybe I saw, oh God, it's just like, I just had faith, I just had faith. I just believed.

And I think maybe I saw my family doing amazing things like, and amazing things in a sense like making something work or going on for a holiday or they just didn't accept the right act or like say as I went to act or act, well, you can't afford that, but we can do this. They just pushed on.

They didn't let the environment or the boundaries define what they thought was possible in their mind. So I think it was that route. Yeah, I love that. I love hearing that your parents were saying yes and. It wasn't like no, but it was yes and. Yeah, my mum was just like, how are we going to do this? She would challenge me, always challenge me. And then I said, Oh, yeah, this is this is this. But I realized she was just like, I'm trying to test me if I really believed in it. And then, and then

again, I probably needed that. I did need that because I needed to know it from my, I was aware of it. So then I was like, cool, this is what's gonna happen. And then she got, okay, I believe you, I always go, like Like this is the way I know this is the way I know I can make it work. So I think it was just like, I just, I just believed, I don't know where it comes from. I think it's just a gift in it. I just, I just try and honor it and try and do good with it. I don't try and like, I intellectualize it.

Yeah. Do you want to say? Yeah, yeah, I get that man. I get that. That makes sense. And obviously like I, I heard I was watching your Hot Ones, which I loved. And on there you talked about how like

you wrote your first piece when you were nine years old. And I was thinking, it's amazing now because with the work that you're doing now with the kitchen and like production and writing, like you're kind of almost doing this full circle piece. Why was writing where you started? Because I don't think a lot of people know that. Like I didn't know that as well.

Like I've discovered you as an actor and loved your work, but like what was it about writing that drew you to it at nine years old and tell us about that piece too. I know, I know. I know, I thought I was at school one time. It's before this play competition, which is what I won at nine. I was at school one time

and the teacher told me to write something. And then I was like, in my heart, I knew, I could do this sick. I know I could do this sick and I wrote something. I thought it was amazing. Yeah. The teacher gave me a rubbish grade. I'm like, you're wrong. I think you're wrong.

Like, I really like this. And then like that competition was just basically like, it was a playwright in course. They come to your school in Camden. Roy Williams, who's a really big playwright now, was a teacher then. And then like a teacher shamed me and was like, oh, like Daniel, you're messing about.

I was mischievous, like you're messing about. I'm like, I'm like, I don't like this one. And then so I was like, all right, cool. And I was like, all right, cool, I'll show you. I'll show you. Then I wrote his plays based on Keenan and Kel. They were these guys that work in the shop. I love Keenan.

And they just had a friendship. And then like, I got to the next round. It was a couple of us in the next round. And then I was just right. And then those guys, Jonathan Siddle and Roy, were like, I knew, at that time they knew, and they, I felt like they knew I had something because I just felt the energy in them.

I was like, yeah, I just, this is what I think. Cause I had to be like, I don't know. And then like, then I won it. Then my whole school year came to happens to feel, I watch it, it's in my arsenal top. I got a picture and I'm just flexing. And then like, and then yeah, I mean, they told me like, keep going, keep going.

I'm like, I'm going to play out. I'm not going to, right. And then I did a play for Ray Williams, Sucker Punch of like when I was 21. And I remember he told me after it. Yeah. He was like, yeah, do you know that like the teachers didn't want to pick you? They were like, don't he's too bad. Don't he's too bad. And then Ray was like, I'm definitely going to pick him. So it was just that was the kind of like I had that antagonistic energy and class.

But I just I don't know I just I knew how to I knew dialogue I knew how people spoke but I think a lot of it's to do because I was like in my family I didn't speak my language so then I would like sit at family events and then I'm like watching I mean I can see that in hindsight like I would observe and I would like peace. And I know how to pick tone and energy and I feel it because I have to. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's where it came from. And then I stopped and I picked it back up at 16.

So to get back in the game. But during that time, I got into acting and I got to improve, which is actually writing on your feet. So then I was honing that skill set. So when I got back to play writing again, it was easy. Er. Tell us about some of the improv. Is that I feel like that's such a fascinating skill.

I love how you said writing on your feet. That's a cool way of thinking about it. And I feel like improv almost demands so much from an artist in a way that other work doesn't. How would you, is there like a funny moment of improv that you did with a group or something, a story that you went through that? You're like, oh, I remember that.

And that was a moment where I was like, oh, I can write on my feet, I can actually do this. I think we've messed about in class. And then Evelyn, who taught me and Marcus, they were just like, you guys, I was messing about. We was in the community class, Anna Shea, he's in the community class. Then if you're good enough, you get to the YPs,

young professionals, and then like, he was just like, oh, like, you guys don't get it. And then they went on stage and they just acted, and I watched it and I was like, copy, I get it. I understand what you're doing, understand. And then after that point, I got it, because I needed to see it, to go, all right, cool, I'll get you, I'll get you, I'll get you.

What I love about it is that you just let it. Go, all right, cool, I'll get you, I'll get you, I'll get you. What I love about it is that you just let it go. You're not holding on. I have moments that my friends remind me if I see them, go, yeah, I remember when you brought out that iron. Oh, like, do you know what I mean? As a prop, you know, like, but I just had this rule, is like once you're in your head, you're dead.

So you just got, and also it's like, it's like what you said, like improv is yes and she can't reject You know the sense. So it's just like if someone says something crazy, you just got to go with it You know me and I go, yeah, yeah, yeah And then also if someone doesn't know how to do it I learned how to drive it to say if you didn't know how to do it I would like you know, why are you not doing like that? Why are you not doing I left to respond because I'm agreeing with you about what I'm agreeing with you based on what you said about What exactly did I say then?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then you build a... You fill me in like, and then like you clock out to like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's real dialogue too, right? Exactly, because you're listening. Because you're interrupting and listening, you're not just...

But then by doing that, you're playing a character that doesn't listen. Well, listening's too closely that they don't... They're hearing and they're not listening. They're trying to find, and then so you're building that character through those interactions, and then you're honing it through the interactions,

and then you land, you're like, cool, bang. So it's like, so that's how I kind of learned how to do it. More, it's more that, yeah, don't know. It's hard to like, scrub like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know why I'm going down this road, but you mentioned it and I'm listening. So I was like, you said you're an Arsenal fan.

You going? I'm a United fan. You've been an Arsenal fan for forever. What's been your favourite team at Arsenal over the years? Oh man. I'd have to say like, my favourite was Adams, right? Yeah.

Keon, Winterburn. Keon, Overmars, Winterbuck, that was crazy. Hala. Let's look at 98, like, come on, man. That was like, that was like, but that's when I fell in love. You know what I'm saying? I was like, these are my guys.

Like everyone was just, everyone was just firing. So I just, I just, I don't know. And also it was my local team, and it's so then everyone was just, everyone was just firing. So I just, I don't know. And also it was my local team, and so then it was just like, say if we won a cup, the area was happy. Yeah. I mean, that's not like, that's what it came from. It's like, it was a time when we didn't win a cup for nine years, and then we did FA Cup,

and I watched it at Halloween, all that kind of stuff. And the next day it was like, it was all Arsenal fans outside of windows, people were like, you know, in their dusty vans, the right and stuff, in their dusty vans. It was like, it was all Arsenal fans outside of windows, people were like, you know, they're Dusty Vans, the right and stuff, they're Dusty Vans. It was just, everyone was happy. Even if you weren't Arsenal fan, you were just, the area was happy.

So it was that, it was a close connection. And then, I don't know, it was cool the fact that I could go to games. Like obviously the Carl and Cock games, because all the other games were hard to get. I went to Montague on testimony actually. But like, it was like, it was like, I don't know, you just felt like a community.

Like when they scored higher, the upper tier would just rock. You think it would break. So it was a bit of danger. It was just like, and then it was like, my mom's friend used to give me tickets when she went away. So then I watched like wicket games or rubbish games, but I was part of it from like young.

You know what I mean? You could get a ticket even if you couldn't afford it. You know what I mean? So I just fell in love with it during that age. Yeah. And you had a lot of happy days, but I think you had a lot of unhappy days as well. Stress, bro.

I don't want to put people out there because there's a public forum, but it was stress. It was stress, but like, I can, I'm very, I see that I'm a very child of Venga. Like I can see I'm very, I see that, I'm a very child of Venga. Like I can see I'm very stubborn. Like a lot of how Arsenal is in me, I feel like. Cause not as bigger than just football. Like they have a philosophy, do you know what I mean?

They have a style, that era had a style. Even if they had a style and I just respected it. Do you know what I'm saying? And I think it's going to a school in Israel and the Israel team is the one. And then you're like literally looking at the sun in the paper the next day in school. And then it's the Invincibles.

And they're talking about your local team. It changed, I think it makes you think that. We're the guys. That's your formative age, you know what I mean? So I think it's a bit of that. Well, that's where I struggled because, so I always say this, that every Indian person that moved to England

in like the 70s and 80s, I mean my dad, they only support Manchester United or Liverpool because those are the big clubs at the time. Like those are the clubs winning everything. And so I support United because of that. I never lived in Manchester. And so I never had a happy day in the town

because I still almost have to like shy away from saying I was a United fan because I lived right in between Hibari and Spurs. So that's why I grew up in Wood Green, right in between. And so I never got to go out and celebrate in the town because I didn't live in Manchester. And so I always like grew up in fear of like, I can't tell anyone what I follow and like what I do.

Why isn't there a lot of Indian players in football? I've always wanted to ask. That's a great question, you know? And I think it's because a lot of parents don't, you know, if an Indian kid told their parent they wanted to be a football player, I mean, I just got to look at these two and go, what do you think the parents would have said?

What do you think the parents would have said? Yeah, definitely not. No matter how good they were, I was telling Russaby, one of our mates, I'm calling him out here, his kid's supposedly quite decent at football. And I told him yesterday, I was like, mate, you gotta let this kid chase football,

like chase the dream. And I don't know if, as a culture, I think our parents worked so hard and they wanted us to have safety. And so they didn't want the kids to do anything that felt unsafe. So acting would also be a no-go. You don't see that many South Asian people in acting.

I mean, it's growing now for sure, especially the London scene, but acting, media, anything that was uncertain or unsafe, Indian parents generally were like, no, they didn't want us to be a part of it because they just wanted us to not have the struggle they did. And so they wanted us to feel safety, security. And so if you can get a good job, right? That makes sense. If you could get a good job that paid the bills

to care of you, they were happy. It's when you be safe. That's interesting. I'm interested in like how cultural values dictate what the paths are because the demographic, they should be close. And if you look at it as demographically, do you know what I'm saying?

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Yeah, everyone plays at school and then it gets called off. Like I remember with my parents too, it's like, they want you to play, they want you to be sporty, but they don't want you to take it that seriously. I had friends at my school that were amazing at cricket, like incredible cricket players that were playing for England under 21s, England under 18s, and then went off to be accountants

because their parents wouldn't let them, like, you know, follow the dream. And so it's really interesting seeing who pushes back through that as well. Like some people just go, no, I'm gonna try anyway. And some people fold and let it go. But I'm hoping it changes.

I'm hoping it changes. Great to. Yeah, what were some cultural things that you think held you back? I mean, you've talked a bit about the racism you experienced. You know, for me, when I was hearing about that, I thought that doesn't sound easy when you add it to the other bullying and shaming

you were talking about earlier. Like, what was it like navigating that? What was it? Well, you talked about what from what I've heard, what you've talked about is like, it took you a long time to realize that you felt darker than the people that you were around. And so there was this whole and you felt that they made you feel bad for that. When I got into secondary, that was more predominantly black school. It's when I realized that I was darker than the average black person that I grew up around or I was around.

And then they would tell me. It was a kind of culture shock, but then I was darker than a lot of people in my family. So then it was even, that made me feel a bit different. And so then I was just like, oh yeah, I don't really know what's going on. And then, but then obviously like, at that age, you're going through racism, but you're in a predominantly black space. You're not, you're going through colorism. And then like you go out of it and then, I mean, like, got good grades and start going to a different school,

like more middle class, upper class school, then you deal with, you see racism. But you see people do things, you're like, what's that? That's weird. What's that? What's weird? You haven't really felt like you've got the right to go, oh, that's that. You know what I'm saying? And you ain't got no one to talk to that, understand what's happening. Then it just started getting a bit more. The more, the more like kind of more into the workforce,

the more that you would face it. And the more asleep people are to it. And you go call it out. What I used to say is that like, because one time I was getting, not getting roles because of acting and that, and then I was like, oh yeah, I was making all these excuses.

And then my agent at the time was Irish. And he was like, yeah, well, Daniel's cause you're black. I said, what do you mean? He said, it's cause you're black. He said, it doesn't have to tell anyone else. You should be getting to some age for black. And I was like, allowed to kind of like accept it. And then I would tell people it was racism

and they kind of would, wouldn't believe me. Then when I said, oh, my Irish agent said it, they're like, oh, is it? So I realized when you're black, you feel, you don't have the disease, but you feel the dissymptoms, but you're not allowed to diagnose it. It has to be someone outside of yourself

that says that's what's happening. And that means it's more valid. You know what I'm saying? Usually the people that it's come from because you're seen as too biased because you have the symptoms. So that's what I realized about it. Like you just go out for it. You're like, oh, right.

That's kind of nuts. I can't really even say it. And that's what I subconscious going on. Yeah. If I say it, you got a chip on your shoulder. That's what it is. You got a chip on your it, you go, oh, he's saying, oh, he's got a chip on his shoulder. That's what it is, you got a chip on your shoulder, bro. You know chips on my shoulder, bro. Like, do you know what I mean?

It's nuts. Like, it's nuts, what are you saying? It's like, it's common. And people are like, and so I think that's where it is. You're like just navigating all of those things. Like, so it took me a long, it took me a long time to figure it out. Yeah.

I'm still figuring it out. Yeah, I feel like that's something that you don't ever figure out, because it's like, I love how you described that. Never heard it described like that, but the idea of how, because you have the symptoms, you can't be the one to diagnose it, but you can't be the one to express it, which feels so difficult,

because it's almost like this is my reality, but you need someone else to validate your reality. 100%. And that is a really interesting prison to live in. All right, cool. So what do you love in life? What do I love? It's like away from like family.

What do you love? Football. Football. As soon as I come out with it, I go, all right, Jay, why do people don't like football? Yeah, and I'll be like, yeah, I don't know. So when people go, why do people don't like black people? What would I know? Yeah, you don't know't know. So when people go, why people don't like black people? What would I know?

Yeah, you don't know. Yeah. So then that's what I'm saying. It's like, there's something. It's a bit, it's gaslighting. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, I don't, how am I supposed to? But then when I initiate it and say, this is happening,

I'm not believed. But then I'm supposed to report about it, when it's happening to me from there to justify what they're doing. It's it's a whole like it doesn't really make sense what's happening if I go this was happening no that's not true and then they they'll have a whole lawyer or someone like a professor that's old dossier And then now if he says it because he wrote 80 pages of waffle They believe him. Yeah, but I told you

You're just saying that his word is worth more than mine. And that, in that is racism. I'll say this, it's not worth, it's just not worth anything to you. And I had to really learn that my word is worth something to me, to me. And so then like, I just, I just move like that.

So I just don't really like kind of engage with the narratives because it's just people just making up things that Protect what they like about it because you only things are kept because they like something about it because they didn't know get rid of it They'll change the culture you seen how they change other things. Yeah, you change the culture. There's something that it protects. I feel Yeah, I find what I'm talking to you. I find that you've kind of Really worked on like making peace with how you feel about yourself and how you feel about your views and how you feel about your art. Like there seems to be this autonomy and independence in saying as you were saying earlier, even when you were given a bad grade, you were like, Nana, but I know this is good. And even what you a bad grade, you were like, no, no, but I know this is good.

And even what you were saying before where you were like, it gave you space to fail in private because you were like, no, no, I know that I'm working on myself. So it feels like you've really worked on having this internal piece. How hard is that as your career kind of does the opposite, right? So it's like you're getting more and more focused on giving yourself peace, which is an amazing skill. Like I'm loving to see it on display. And I know everyone's going to appreciate seeing it. And at the same time, it's like you're, you're doing bigger and bigger things. So you're more and more exposed to other people's opinions. How have you managed to, or how are you managing to continue to kind of hold

on to that core of that nine year old-old and that 15-year-old? I mean like I think I always just have it like it's just mine. Yeah. So it's not something but I think it's like what happens is is how I've done things that causes a ruckus or chaos in my sphere and so like you just got accepted you're a bit chaotic. I mean it's like there's something that doesn't mean that's you but there's something there that you have to look chaotic. It's a meanest hat, it's a meanest hat. There's something, that doesn't mean that's you, but there's something there that you have to look at if it's nuts, like that. You have to look, all right, cool, like, where is that? Like, what's that?

And then you get closer to being cool with it, or then it will quiet down. But there's something that I'm not looking at. If it goes a bit mad, or you care too much what people think, you know what I'm saying? There's like, you have to accept that. Just go out and call, what, why is that?

What's happening there? I feel like, but yeah, no, it's been, last year it's been, it's been wild, but like it's been like, I've done it in a very quiet way. But it's been wild in the sense like what happens and stuff like that. But that's what happens, that the narratives that I've been a part of are powerful.

And like, the decisions I've made to stand on things that I believe in or even basically, I know what I like and I like what I like. If people don't like it, I'm not gonna ask. You're entitled, if I care, I would wanna know why you don't like it. But I like what I like. And I stand on decisions I make

and I think they're not spread. So I don't know, maybe it's that's a bit different to what how people handle their careers and this day and age. So I don't know, but that's just me guessing. I don't have a big landscape on whatever decision people are making. Of course.

Yeah, what does it feel like to see some of those like nine year old, 15 year old dreams come true? Like what does that feel like in reality some of those like nine year old, 15 year old dreams come true? Like, what does that feel like in reality? Like, what does that actually look like? Can't. Normal. I knew it. Um, I know it. Like, if I, minute I get the idea, I'm like, all right, cool. There. Boom. That's when I get excited. All right, we on. Let's work to it.

So when you're working to it, even you get there, it costs so much. You know, it costs so much. If you want something that like you really want, the price is so high that you're just a bit like, all right, cool. You're not seeing it as for the sheen that you saw in the perspective at 15 at nine.

You're seeing it, all right, that cost me this, that cost me that. I have to wake up for right, that cost me this, that cost me that. I had to wake up for you, I had to do this, like that, I had to grind it, I had to do this, now it's you, I had to do this, you're seeing the cost it takes, you're feeling the cost it takes, so when you land and arrive,

now I call it turbulence. Oh, you got here. I did. You just did, you know what I'm saying? But the excitement comes from like feeling like you can do it before you see all of it. That makes sense. Like the full kind of picture because you're only seeing the good. That's why you go there. But then it like everything's balanced. That's all it is. It's not like it's bad. It's just like it's everything.

Yeah. Yeah. I love that statement. You just said like, you only see the good. That's why you go there. And then when you go there, you see all of said, like you only see the good, that's why you go there. And then when you go there, you see all of it, but you realize that all of it was part of getting you there. It was never possible to get there without everything else. Like it was never- And part of it, you only seen the good, because like in Thai issues,

it's like what people say about sex, like how sex is like a way for your genes to keep going. Like it's like a creator, the body has created this organism to keep going. so then you have this pleasure out of it. So it's like, it's kind of like, oh, you got, oh yeah. And then when you go in there, I'm not saying sex is bad, I'm just saying. But like, you go in the full of it,

you go and see fullness of it. I find that when you go on those journeys, yeah, there's something about the badness in it that you have to face in yourself. And it's whether you take the lesson. And if you don't take that lesson, you will meet again. You will meet again until it lets you go. And then when you meet and accept it,

sometimes you realize, what I've realized, that like, oh, I didn't even want that good to know. Part of it was me figuring out something in me that I didn't really know that I wanted to figure out. You know what I'm saying? But that was probably the majority of it was me figuring out something in me that I didn't really know that I wanted to figure out. Jett and Sam, but that was probably the majority of it. Jett and Sam and the sex impulse, so as you go there. Jett and Sam is like, do that. When did you get, you said when you haven't,

I'm gonna do a little bad impersonation, but you're like, when you get the idea, it's like, boom. So where's the, where's the- Definitely from Wood Green. Yeah, definitely from Wood Green. Where's the, when did you get the idea for the kitchen? And like, cause I know that project's taking a long time to come to life, right?

That's like eight years or something, like seven? Ten. Ten, yeah, all right. I got the idea in a barber shop in Holloway. I was sitting in a barber shop and then like, these guys were talking about taking stuff. Like these highest, a million pound highest and this is Daniel Vaughan, guys were talking about taking stuff. Like, he's highest, a million pound highest, and this is Daniel Vaughan, they were talking.

But they were talking about actually doing this. Yeah, they were just chatting. I'm like, these guys are talking. And then like this, and then we're saying, something was on the TV, and they were like, yeah, that's that, that's us, that's us. That's not doing that. And then I was like, right, that's us.

And then in that moment, I was like, I'd love to see that film. Of people going into like diamond shores, stores and robbing stuff. I was like, I'd love to see that. Just in the barbswap shilling because like my barber just kept on putting appointments before me even though I made an appointment. So I'll be sitting in the whole half a day.

And then like, so then I was like, I'd love to see that. And then like, and then I never saw him again. Ever. And I was like, what happened to? And he's like, yeah, he went and then like, I was like, I couldn't shake it. I was like, it was thrilling, but there was a cost. And I was like, 22 in a barbershop. Like a chicken.

I was like, that's something about that. Then I did a bit more research and I realized that like, oh, they're getting paid. Like they're paying an experience stealing millions of pounds worth of diamonds, but they're getting paid like, they're spending, stealing millions of pounds worth of diamonds, but they're getting paid 200 pounds. I was like, ah, signing that. That says where we're at in this world and what's going on in London, where they don't even know the value of what they're robbing.

They think it's worth 200. And they're willing to risk their life and their freedom for it. I wanna know what's going on there. I just kept digging. So I just would go down there and then, then I'm like, well, I grew up, like how we grew up, like, obviously you do like the professional jobs,

like you do like, Harry and Paul and the Cyclevils and then that, but then I would have like a whole other career where we just make YouTube videos. And we just meet with people and just make stuff. So then that was a time when like, cause I wrote on skins and stuff. There was a time when I wanted to do meetings and talk about what my ideas were and I was like, I'm tired of these coffees man. And so that was like, all right.

And I've got the team together. Um, director and a producer and that that we, that we was building with. And then like, um, and then I was like, oh yeah, let's just make it. So I asked my bar bar. Um, he's in the film actually. I know he's in the film. He's in the film and I asked him. Is he a barber in the film? No, no, no, he's just in the film constantly. He's one of the residents, he's one of the main residents.

But this is why, this is why. So I went to the barber, he closed on Wednesdays. So I was like, hey, bro, like, Peggy, let's use your shop. Cause I want it basically, it started as reservoir dogs in the barbershop. All right. So then I was like, hey, like, can we use your shot to shoot? He's like, yeah, yeah, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

Then I like paying people. He said I have a free. I was like, no, man, like, please. And then he was like, obviously, didn't have a budget. I think we like 200 pound each. And we just shot something. I got new actors and it was like, then a new crew. And then like, and he was like, don't cut me out of this. Don't cut me out of this. I was like, no, I forgot something. I got a new actress and it was like, then a new crew. And then like, and he was like, don't cut me out of this.

Don't cut me out of this. I was like, no, I forgot you. He's like, no, when it blows, keep me here. I need to stay involved. I said, no, I got you, I got you. So that's how it kind of started. And then it evolved. It kept on evolving from then.

Wow, I love that. I love hearing how like ideas come about. And I appreciate that you have that memory. Did you actually sit down with people who'd done those heists? Did you meet some people who'd actually gone through with it? I met a couple guys that did stuff like that and it was just like I think I went there and it was like pretty It was pretty simple and actually wise but it's like for me it was about the mentality Which I knew I understood

But it was like kind of being around people and understanding, just like hanging with them, hanging with them and the people that are like in the news and next while I said I chilled with them and they was like, this is standing over. But I think them kind of guys like, they on, we understand each other because I kind of go into the industry like, I listen, I'm just doing what I want. Like, I'm just going to go in there And I think that's the energy that they have. But yeah, they're interesting people. What did you learn about them? Do you feel they were just,

they're just trying to survive or they're trying to, or they sold a dream or what's kind of motivating them to do that? I don't know. I think they just do it. Cause like it's just what, it's part of the operation. It's what they do, is what they know, is their reality, is their position. It's that's what they know. That's Cause like it's just what, it's part of the operation is what they do is what they know is their reality is their position.

It's that's what they know. That's how they've chose the five, whether they've been the older brother or been the only boy in the family or whatever the reason is that they've gone down that path. They did it and they have a level of intelligence. That means they've made able to organize an operation and like talk to people and communicate and this and that.

And like, I like they, they're like, but that's, they're just doing that in this realm. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I found, I found how they think more interesting than what they do. And that's what I wanted to explore in this is like, exposing the thought and the principles behind how they live and what their values are

and why and how it's connected to ... And if people are really true to it, so basically like someone that staples in the film, he doesn't do anything criminal to per se, but it's like he has the mentality and the values. You know what I'm saying? It's like he thinks that the enemy isn't the other postcode or the other block. The enemy is the system. And he engages with them how we would see a kid like that

engage with the other block and the postcode. He goes, it's you look and he just engages him like that. But that's a powerful energy, it's a powerful mentality. It's a leader. So I kind of was just interested in that and how those people think and how that can be, how can motor and a kind of like a cultural identity. And I felt that kind of like London had that energy of like,

probably do what we want. Like if you really from there, if you really from there, and I feel you have that energy, but you just a monk in that. You know what I mean? You're like, it's them. It's them. But you're like, hey, it's me. But it's not like, but you're doing it for good that, you know what I mean? You're like Zen. But you're like, Hey, it's me. But it's not like you're doing it for good things.

But it's like, I think London is a, I always felt London was a special city. Yeah, I do. A very special city, but our, sometimes our humility and the class ceiling. Yeah. Stops us from like doing what we want to do. Like people are, there's a glass ceiling and I'm like, what we want to do. Like people are like, oh, there's a glass ceiling. And I'm like, it's made of glass. You could break it.

It's like, it's like, it's like, it's made of get something. I mean, and I feel like what I was around was basically, what I grew up around was that mentality. We're gonna make it work. We're gonna make it happen. And not in an arrogant way, we just, cause we want it to happen.

We just, we mean it. It's sincerity. We mean it. We just want make it happen. And not in an arrogant way, we just, cause we want it to happen. We just, we mean it, in sincerity. We mean it, we just want it to happen. And like, it's more than us. And I feel like London, and I've researched about London, about the Blitz and how the mentality of like, when London was bombed for the first time, how like people were scared.

And then after it, they were like, oh, we survived. And how it built a resilience in the city. Like a kind of resilience that I feel like is still here. But because of the class system and that keep calm, carry on mentality, we kind of squash it and like, like a very like regional with how, with our dreams. We think, oh yeah, if we got this, then that's enough. Because said person said, that's all you can get.

Who is this person? That's how I feel. Who are you to limit me? That doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, do you think people are scared to dream or is it scared to, or they're accepting a limit? Or what, how would you articulate? One of the big moments I had,

one of the big breakthroughs I feel in a limit or what, how would you articulate? One of the big moments I had, one of the big breakthroughs I feel when the script was like randomly like, so like, I think Black Mirror was like 22, four years later, like it blew in America, yeah. Yeah, it's not, it went nuts in America. Netflix was a thing. So I did this TV show and then I did a thing that crossed over in America, so I was in New York

and then like, it was years after I did it. It was made with a packet of fight. And then so I had a photo shoot. So I stayed in the photo shoot. And then I was like, I've got to watch the fight here. So I stayed in this flat in Bed-Stuy and I was chilling. And then I was just, I was in New York. Like it's in New York.

I went to the church, went to the brunch. I was going everywhere. I was rolling, went to the parties, went to everywhere. And then I was like, and I was, I was walking around and there's a massive poster of Biggie in Brooklyn. And I looked at it, I was like, they really love themselves.

This is someone that's come from there and they've pushed that. I don't think, none of, we wouldn't see our heroes of now on that pedestal on that platform we wouldn't see them as Who they are? So, huh, I came back home And I used to like go Cali pool But I surround from my place to go Cali pool. I used to go a lot of things from my jogs

So I'd run there. It's ten minute jog and I would look around. I'm like Same demographic as New York literally same demographic. What's the difference? Why is New York feel like New York, New York and in London feels and I just run the wood running around I was like these guys don't believe themselves. I'm gonna believe myself And I think my career has shifted, but also I think that I just feel I want that for London. I want that, we're global, we're playing world class rent. I want world class results from this city.

Do you know what I'm saying? So like, but for whatever reason, we're just like going, nah, nah, nah. It's like, I just don't, I don't believe in that. I don't believe in that. And I feel like New Yorkers just decide with us. And I think if Londoners decide with us, I think everything will flourish.

And I think a lot of it came from that. If we're being honest about who we are, as opposed to kind of hiding and kind of suppressing and kind of keep calm, carry on sheen that we're pretending to be, where we're actually, as a culture, very cocky or sure about who we are what we stand for even the fact that like when you grow up in London like you really still stay hanging out with your friends that you grew up with yeah you're saying it's like it's sure because that's what

it is yeah I mean and and that's a lot it's a level of conviction and values that I feel we're not honest about publicly. And I wanted more for London. All right, me and there. This is woman Valderrama, executive producer of the new podcast, Day My Abuelita First, part of I Heart Radio's Michael Tudor podcast network. Each week, host Vico Ortiz and Abuelita Liliana Montenegro will play matchmaker for a group of hopeful romantics who are putting their trust in Auelita to find them a date. Your job right now is to get on Auelita's really good site!

Our Auelita definitely knows best! On date my Auelita first, 3 single contestants will buy for a date with one lucky main-dater except to get their hearts, they have to win over Auelita Liliana first! Die Liliana! Yes, we are ready for love! Through speed dating rounds, hilarious games, and Liliana's intuition, one contestant will either be a step closer

to getting that pan dulce, if you know what I mean, or a step closer to getting that chancleta! Let's see if Cheesepas will fly, or if these singles will be sent back to the dating apps! Listen to date my Abuelita first on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. On his new podcast, Six Degrees with Kevin Bacon, join Kevin for inspiring conversations

with celebrities who are working to make a difference in the world, like musical artist Jewel. And what an equal opportunist misery is. It doesn't care if you're black or white or rich or poor or famous or homeless. If you were raised in misery systems, it's perpetual." Kevin is the founder of the nonprofit organization SixDegrees.org. Now he's meeting with like-minded actors who share a passion for change, like Mark Ruffalo. You know, I found myself moving upstate in the middle of this fracking fight,

and I'm trying to raise kids there, and neighbor's like willing to poison my water. These conversations between Kevin and activist Matthew McConaughey will have you ready to lean in, learn, and inspired to act. They're all on the wrong track, helping get on the right track. If they're on the right track, let's help them double down on that and see the opportunities to stay on the right track for success in the future. Listen to 6 Degrees with Kevin Bacon on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Yeah, I love that, man. I relate to so much of that as someone who considers myself through and through London, born, raised, university, school, everything. All my best friends are here. You know, and obviously I don't live here anymore, but when I'm back, it's like to me, yeah, London raised me and you have that kind of affinity

to the city in such a special way. But yeah, I feel similar to you that I feel often people think if you dream bigger or you think beyond or you are pursuing the limitless, it's almost seen as less than. It's seen as like, no, no, no, don't try that. Like that's, it's not worth it. It's as less than. It's seen as like, no, no, no, don't try that. Like that's, it's not worth it. It's not worth it.

Or when we feel we have to present ourselves to others, we're like, no, no, you shouldn't even have to do that. You should, it should just happen. And it's like, well, no, sometimes it takes a bit of work and convincing and pushing the boundaries, as you're saying as well. And so I can relate to, relate to all of that. And, and I feel the same way.

I feel the same way. London is fully global and London has so much incredible talent in all these different industries. And I think it needs to be shared globally too. We don't need to stay just here. Yeah, I don't think so. I think we've got a lot to say and we've got an interesting perspective

and I just want to, I want more of it. Like a lot of the time I do things I was like, coming in and I may mess it up. But at least I went for it. At least I went for it. And I believed in it. And then hopefully someone after me will refine it. So then I can learn something and I'll go for it. Like, do you mean it's like that's the whole point?

Yeah, just passing on the back. That's the whole point. Like, just go for it. It's not about you. It's about your ideas. What you can hear and what you can let through. It's not about you, it's about your ideas. What you can hear and what you can let through. That's what this is, man.

And so, what are you doing? Like, what are you listening to? What are you just teaching yourself to? What ideas are you letting out? That's how I see it. Yeah. How do you get, I mean, Trees, I loved how you talked about how the idea

for the kitchen formed. How do you get curious and critique your own ideas? Because I'm sure you have ideas popping at you all the time. How do you kind of like filter it down to be like, oh this is an idea that I really love versus I'm gonna park that I'm gonna take that from here. Like walk me through what's happening in your mind because I feel like when you do have an idea that you're sure of and you go yeah that's the one, it seems so clear. But I'm guessing you have a million ideas

before you get that. It's clear when you know it's clear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. I'm thinking that time it's like, in that before the true clarity, you can't, it's like, you just can't shake it off. You can't stop thinking about it. You can't stop thinking about it.

You can't stop thinking about it. You keep going, you keep going, keep going. And then it goes, I gotta do it. And I't stop thinking about it. You keep going, you keep going, you keep going. And then it goes, oh, I gotta do it. And I really, truly, there's loads of ideas, but like, I read like, like loads of ideas, but then like, someone ends up doing it. Like, Jameena's like, and then you're like, and like, when someone ends up doing it,

I get really happy. You're like, oh, cool, I don't have to do it. They did it. Like, I don't see it as mine. I see it as what I hear and what I can see. Like, I think no guy like us said in an interview one time, like, and there's an island disc and like, he said like, they asked him about like,

I can't wonder what one of them songs he made. They were like, what's it like? He said, it's like fishing. And you go in there by the shore and you just wait and you just wait and you just, whoa! You feel me? Or like, oh, Michael Jackson described it one time where, like he was saying how like he was writing,

he was writing a song and they were like, oh, Michael, like go bed, like you're tired. He's like, I can't, he said, Michael go bed, like can't, like why? He was like, I can't because if I go bed, God will give the song to Prince. And they like, like you get it. Like it's not like, it's not mine. It's what my expertise,

my hours, my perspective, my, I may have an idea, but I'm not the right, haven't had the right upbringing to really actualize it. Like it's all these factors that come to you letting it through. Do you understand? So I could see things, I go, yeah, that's a great idea. But I'm not sure if I'm able to give that. So a lot of time when I act in that, how I define it a lot of time is, there's stuff I wanna say and there's stuff

I wanna help people say. Acting is me helping someone say something. Because I'm like, oh, I really wanna say that too, but I haven't got time to like get there. Do you understand? So I'm like, cool, I just, I hope you say it because I'm like, oh, I really want to say that too, but I haven't got time to like get there. Do you understand? So I'm like, cool. I just hope you say it because I believe you. So like, wow, this is like, oh, okay, now stuff, I'm really like, oh, I'm, I'm the one that is supposed to say this. I can say this. And then you have to check yourself and go, I, I'm not sure you thinking about yourself. How big is your mentality? Or like,

it could be limiting or like, you mean, it's like like there's a whole process that's why it's taking me time but I think when I did Skins when I wrote on Skins I had the thing that in my career that I was like, all right, cool. Do I want to be a great singer or do I want to sing great songs? Yeah, and I think my career shifted when I was like, I want to sing great songs. And then I realized in that process you become a great singer. So when Skins when you're inheriting characters, you're singing a great song essentially. And then I realized in this process, I've had to learn how to make a song. You know what I'm saying?

How to create a character, how that to create relationship design, how to create structure, like you have to learn all that in order to get to the standard that I like. You know what I'm saying? You can release it. But I wouldn't,

because I have a higher standard for myself and the stuff I like. And I want me and my friends to like what I make or what I help someone make. I love what you said man. And it's so interesting. Like when I'm listening to someone speak on the podcast, I'm always just trying to like sense like what energy kind of connects everything they're saying. And every time you speak and every time the way you answer stuff is counterintuitive in a good way because I hear peace and calm through all of it. Like even for you to just say right now

that when someone makes something that I had an idea about, you accept that with peace, that oh, that's not my idea. It wasn't meant to be mine. Where a lot of us see someone make an idea come that we maybe one day had randomly and we're like that's not my idea. It wasn't meant to be mine. Where a lot of us see someone make an idea come that we maybe one day had randomly. And we're like, they did my idea. Like, I wish, you know, I could have been the person or whatever, we often feel a bit of competitiveness,

comparison, and you have actually the opposite, where it's a sense of peace. And like, actually that's great for them, good for them. I'm happy they made it, because I wanna see it. Yeah. I wanna see it. Yeah. Like, I wanna see it.

Like, and it's like, it's the reality of like, oh yeah, to be to, well, I'm the one to make the idea in that certain kind of level that costs a lot. So if someone does it and they want to pay the price, I'm going to sit front row and be a fan of it. You know what I'm saying? Back then I'd buy the DVD. You know what I'm saying? I would support it because I'm just happy it exists.

I'm just happy. I just want things to exist. I think the world that we kind of come into is really fake. I don't know what to say, this is this, this is that. I'm like, it's just people decided that. I just decided something different. And I think other people just decide something different. And I love seeing people make decisions.

I know you know this and I hope you know this. That is beautiful, man. That mindset is like top notch. make decisions. I know you know this and I hope you know this, that is beautiful man. That mindset is like top notch. That's another level of thinking. I wouldn't see it that way but I hear you, I accept that. I'm learning that. I'm just saying it to you. I love that because I think if we could all live in that way where we could all be happy for what bringing things into existence, whether it's brought by us or brought by others, that's a beautiful state to live in.

So make something that doesn't exist to exist is incredible. I think it's insane. So I used to have this mentality back at David Wiesbock, I was like, I don't know, I was not saying it, whatever. But like, I mean, someone said, oh, you can't do this. I'm like, a man and a woman have sex, yeah? And they make a baby.

That is so incredible. Tintin. It's still like, don't you think that's the most insane? That's really difficult to have. It's really difficult. For us, it's a really difficult thing. It's a difficult process. It's all these other thousand guys

that are trying to get in there to just tell, you're coming in, hang on, yeah. Like, I just, I just, it's, I don't know, it makes me, I celebrate simple things. Like I remember I was in school, I used to look up in the sky. I caught light. This interview is making me realize I was a special kid.

But I look at the sky, I go, bro, I like, maybe you're sick that planes can fly. Yeah, but that is sick. I'm like, it's so heavy. It's so heavy, there's so many people, there's so many bags. What's going on? Like, I was just gonna let this play ground, I'm like,

what's going on here? This is wild. And I just was full, I just just think that's one of the most amazing things ever, like, that's why I always wanted to fly on a concorde and I never got around to it because it got done by the time I got there. But even at a fast, there was a faster one. Wow.

Like, do you know what I mean? It's just like, it's a wow because it's common. It doesn't mean it's still not wow. Yeah. And I think because there's a lot of it, people then disregard the specialness because there's a lot of it. Yeah. I just don't do that.

Yeah. and disregard its specialness because there's a lot of it. I just don't do that. Yeah, we've lost that experience of awe and fascination when you have things that surprise you because everything around you is making the most difficult things look easy. AI, VR, like I mean today, you could go on and on, like everything's becoming so accessible. Yeah, and the other art of this kitchen,

we call it Island, when you're staying in Is. Yeah, yeah. This art of this kitchen, we call it Island. When you're staying in Is, this is what is. And then like, so when you're in Island, that is amazing. Cause that a big metal box that has 300 people with like 800 kilos of luggage going from San Francisco to London is incredible. That is amazing. And I just kinda, I always go, I wear my, I'm in Iceland, am I there, am I there?

Because then you're in just perception land or whatever you think it is or whatever your past pain or whatever it is with this crap. Not crap, it's valid. But like, you should stay in that is. It's powerful. With your mindset and the amount of calm and peace there is in your life internally, internally, you're, you're, you're, you're thinking like a monk, honestly. Are you sure?

Yeah. Yeah, because it's, it's the mindset piece, man. It's, it's the mindset. I'm not guessing it, it's the mindset piece. Like, you know, when I asked you every question I've asked you, the things that have come out of your mind your mouth peace and calm and It's come naturally. It's not like you're trying to be zen like it's just coming out because that's where you're trying to live

And so that's what it means like in the modern day where you know We're not trying to live a particular monk life in that sense externally, but there's a sense of peace within there's's a sense of calm within. And I love seeing it in other people. I always say one of the other people I saw during an interview was Kobe Bryant. Like when I sat with him and I interviewed him, he had so much gravitas and so much calm and zen around him. And he wasn't spewing like verses or trying to sound, you know, spiritual, he wasn't doing that.

Same way as you're not doing that, but it was a natural part about their presence. I appreciate it. So I respect it, I love seeing it in other people. Thank you so much, I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, I mean that. I wanna dive into, and I love this idea about what is and what isn't and what could have been,

what should have been, what would have been, and a lot of us live in that, what if someone's listening right now and they're listening to you and I'm, I know this for a fact. Anyone who's listened to you this far today, if you're still listening to the episode, which I know you are, I know that people are going to be moved. I know people are going to be inspired. I know there's a lot of people going to be going, Oh my God, I didn't know he'd been through all of that. And you know, like skins and like just writing and the challenges and the stress. What would you like people to know about you that maybe

you think they don't know or understand about you that maybe you've never really been able to talk about or share or or express? I don't know because I'm not I don't I struggle with like my perception like I don't really I struggle with like my perception. Like I don't really, cause a lot of the fame, it's not like I chose to be this famous. It kind of came as a product of the work and it was a surprise product. Like I did a film and then a year later I was at the Oscars. I mean, so it was like, it was like, whoa.

I'm not really, I think I get the vibe where I'm like, people don't get me in America anyway. And then in England, I think people do get me, but'm like, people don't get me in America anyway. And then in England, I think people do get me, but they still, because they get me, they don't understand how I've done it. I'm not really, I'll keep it real. I've learned how to not be as invested in how people perceive me,

but I just not invested in it. Cause then you're consistently, yeah, curate it, like I've been there. It's like, I'm not invested in it. Cause then you're consistently, yeah, I curate it. Like I've been there. It's like, I'm not sitting there like, I was holy and I've been there, I've been in it, trying to look at something. Where you know what I mean?

Like I was just like, what was I happy? No. So like, I don't know. But if I from you, if you want to go ask questions and I'll be open to you and I'll be able to elaborate I would love to John saying but for me. I don't go like Cuz every if I really engage a people mentality. I could not get to where I've got It could not get to where I've got to so that's a lot of that a lot of that is in that yeah of that kind of being so like

That's what I think But I'm open No the same time as well, do you understand? No, no, no, I get what you're saying. And I don't, you know, I think that it's tricky because you're right that you can either get so lost in cultivating and crafting and curating how you're perceived and then still people won't perceive you that way, even if you do all of that. Or you can kind of let it go and it kind of flows in its own direction and then you've made peace with that which I think is probably the healthier option because at least you can live and breathe.

I'll give you an example right? So I was, I remember like I didn't really, like I came in this game like I didn't watch films, I watched like Batman and Robin. I was just living life. I'm a kid. You took my Vowel Killman. Yeah, yeah, we're talking George Clooney. Yeah, George Clooney. You're talking like that. I'm watching life, like films that come out. So when I got into the industry,

I was talking about this art house, from this art house, from this, this, this, this, that and the other one. I remember HMV had this deal where you can black by one pound, two pound films. So I just buy loads of films and I would just watch all the people that people spoke about that. Like the legends like Mel Street, Dorothy Lewis, like Shane Meadows, Patty Considine,

like all these people that people were like around that time around 07 that people just obsessed about. But I was time watching and I would go, oh, like, all right, cool. I watch it. I was like, OK, that's you're clearly really good at what you do. But so what? Like what for? You know what I mean? And I realized I cared more about that than how great you were at

something that was aimless or purposeless. Then I realized great didn't mean anything. Being really great at your job, being really good didn't mean it had no emotion to it. So sometimes it was really great. Then I obviously I'd watched all those films and I went for that. And then what happens when you go for that

is a bit of a prison. Then you watch your work back and you're just critiquing yourself. You're not enjoying it, you're just critiquing, critiquing in your head, in your head, in your head. Then I had to go, yo, I can't keep doing this. I can't every time I do a job, just kind of because I'm always, I always used to be that improv, like, thinking about the whole week, I'll do it improv in a whole week. I should have done this, I should have done that, I should have done this, this, this, next week, I'm gonna go this, I missed

that one. And then, and I was like, this isn't, this I messed up. And then I was like, this isn't enjoyable. And then I got to a place where I was like, oh, don't try and be good, try and be honest. Like, what's a truth is what happened honesty is how you feel about what happened. So that's how I felt like I was just like, yo, like this is how I feel like. And then I go for something that's honest.

I'll do something like work. And then a year later you watch it back and it's your completely different space that you was a year ago and you wouldn't have done it that way. But I just go, that's how I felt. That's the honest, yeah, that point. That's how I felt, that's where I was at.

If I can't, it's not now. Time is as important as you. Like it's not like the time is there. The time, like the time where you was at got you there. Yeah, a lot of jobs is like, I'm the best person for the job after the job. Do you understand? It's like, and you have to make peace.

Because the amount you grew. Because the amount you grew, because you learned how to do it. And now you go, oh, if you give me now, and it's like a annoying thing to be in. So everybody's like, you have to go, that's how I felt. I was honest.

If I was honest, I can always walk away and go put my head up like that's how I felt. And so that's what I go for like in terms of everything. I go, yo, it's why I'm at man, it's how I feel man. And then, oh yeah, and then if I say something different for years later, like, oh you know, yeah, yeah, I feel, man. It's like, and then, oh yeah, and then if I say something different for years, they're like, oh, you know, you know, grooming it. Like it's like, I went through something

and then my mentality and my something shift, I changed my mind. So it's not like, that's how really what I engage with now is just going, like any other like micro management of like my perception, I'm too meticulous for me to really go in that lane because then I will really micromanage it. So then I was like, well, what's just be real? And then people that get it will get it.

People that don't, that's what they're supposed to do. I mean, Yeah. I mean, I'm glad I asked that question because I love where you took it. And I think what I'm intrigued by, by what you said is what is, what are the projects that you're now, and I don't mean specifics, like I don't need you to name stuff that you're working on,

but what is it that you want your work to mean today as you are writing, as you're producing, as you're now in charge of the story? Obviously you've been selective over roles you've played, but I mean, now that you're telling your own stories, writing your own stories, producing them, which you've been doing since day one, but now doing it at this level,

what do you want it to mean? What do you want people to feel? What are the things you'd like people to feel? I want people to feel, yeah. I don't think I can manage it, yeah? Because that will rob them from their experience, right? Or what I want people to feel about the stuff I make, right, and producing, directing anything I do in my life, you know, is to go,

someone to take it in, call their friend and go, hey, you seen this? This is mad. Like, and then, and then, and they get points from their friend because they have shared something that, you know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?

It's like, you know what, there's a song that's amazing. And they're like, this is mad. And then now forever, you're gonna rate that for you. Like you're going, oh, I introduce you to that. You know what I'm saying? You feel like, yeah, like I got it. Like I want my work to feel like that.

I want it to feel to share it, so there's an excitement, there's like, it's a crackle to it. Like I want there to be like, I want it to be shareable, because I do think sometimes in a lot of work, is there's stuff you share and stuff you don't. Yeah.

It could be as good as great as you want, and stuff that you want to share, the stuff you don't want to share. It's a lot of depressing stuff I do not want to share, but they are excellent. It's incredible. But you just, you know what I mean?

And you take it what you take into for whatever reason. And I do love the fact that people go, yo, this is, it makes you feel something. This makes me, this makes me want to move. You know what it is? You know what it is? I want to make music that makes people want to dance. And how I, what I mean by that is like,

kind of like you can't intellectualize why someone dances. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's just they someone dances. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's just they do, they move. You know what I mean? I want to just move people, move people to go, I'm going to do that, or I want to do this, or like, I want to share this.

I want to, I want to, there's something that comes after it. That means you, that's bigger than any adjective. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Cause a lot of times a lot of people's feelings are just adjectives. There's stuff that you say on Twitter. And all stuff that we are actually feeling. So that's where I'm at really.

Great answer, man. Great answer. The reason why I love that is when I first made my first ever video and people said, why did you make it? I said, because I wanted someone to send it to their friend and say, that's what we were talking about. That's what we were talking about. And we didn't know how to, we didn't know how to, but that video helped explain what I was going through.

But Daniel, you've been amazing. I've got a final five. We do this with every guest. These final five have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. So Daniel, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard, received or given?

I've got one professionally, but I've got one personally. I used to reject it as a kid, this advice, but now I'm older, I get them, more I'm realizing how much is my mom is always saying, everything matters. Everything, everything little matters. And I would let out, I wouldn't focus on details. I wouldn't focus on details. And then now I'm older, I'm realizing the detail isn't about the detail, this is about what it says about you and how easily you can show up on everything else

if you just practice simple details. And it goes, everything little matters. It's just everything little matters. I think that. I love that. That's great, man. We never had that and I fully agree. All right, question number two.

What is the worst advice you've ever heard, received or given? I can't remember specific, but I can remember how it made me feel and how I reacted to it in my head when they said it. Basically, we're just saying, except less. Basically, what the principle was. And I think I just erase it when people say that.

They go, you know, you're not supposed to like, you know this or that person deserve. Basically, they're basing that person you're not supposed to like, you know, this or that person deserves basically they basing that person deserves more. I think everyone deserves more. I love that. I mean, it's not like I just believe. So if you decide that you want more than you can get if you don't then chill. Yeah. Do you mean it's not like and I feel like when people are communicating subconsciously communicating a hierarchy that they win out of, that doesn't benefit me.

I was going, you're chatting rubbish. But like, I can't, it's that, I think it's except less. Love that. All right, question number three. What's the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do when you go to bed? Pray, pray. What's the prayer?

Just thanks. Thanks. I really, I got into that. I. Are you still as my mom as a kid? She made me read the Bible every night You should be the pro of a day, you know, they got like 31 chapters and I used to read it as a kid And then I don't know I got into a place. I was just like no man. There was one time I had to audition I really wanted this audition. I worked really on them to audition. I really wanted this audition. I worked really unknown with that. And I went, you want this audition? I just prayed.

Who am I chatting to? What is God on there? Like, I was in New York. I remember I really wanted it. I was like, why did I feel to do that? And I just ignored it and just kind of carried on my life. It was like 2016, 2015. I was like, yeah.

And then like, I think I got it to a place and I was like, you know what? It makes me just stay. Yeah, man. Thanks, folks and what I thank. And like what I'm grateful for. And then like humility. My ego can get wild sometimes. So teaches me how to just chill and listen to myself.

Yeah, I think God's in you. I don't think it's God's above you. It's not Big Brother, 1984. I love that. I'm gonna take that as question four because I followed up. Fifth and final question. If you could create one law in the world

that everyone had to follow, what would it be? If you have been proven in one way, shape, or form to hate someone or a group of people, your punishment is to live with them for a year. Anyone, even like Twitter, hate anything. Go on then. You do your, that's like nine to five or whatever, boom, boom, boom. You go live with them for a year and it's being there. I think that's just off top already.

That's a great answer, man. Yeah, I like that a lot. Yeah, that's what that is. I like that you went there. That's a great answer. It's dope. I got it, well, appreciate it. I appreciate you, man.

Guys. Thank you, man. If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion. My fears are only going to continue to show me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I'm gaining strength and gaining wisdom and I just want wanna keep doing that.

Hi, Jenna Colopas here with the new season of My Overcomfort Podcast. What's over comfort all about? It's about inspiring confidence in all of us and choosing calling over comfort. Every Tuesday I'll be having real and honest conversations. You'll hear it from me first before any cheeseman hits your social media feed.

Join me as I create a space where opening up is not only okay, it's encouraged. Listen to Overcomfort Podcast with Jenna Colopis on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. combining hip hop lyrics and quotes from some of the greatest who ever grace a microphone. It's a line from Lauren Hill and she says, don't be a hard rock when you really are a gem. Along with ancient wisdom from some of the greatest philosophers of all time. Seneca, right? And he says, your mind will take shape of what you frequently hold in thought, for the human spirit is colored by such impression.