On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Dr. Ramani Durvasula ON: How To Cope With Feelings Of Uncertainty & Grief During A Pandemic

Episode Date: April 10, 2020

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon.Times of crisis affect everyone, no matter their status or expertise. Professor and psychologist Dr. Rumani Duvasula recently sat down with Jay Shetty and shared how her profession has equipped her with skills to not only survive but thrive during times of pain and uncertainty.Listen in as Dr. Rumani shares the secrets she believes will empower people to be honest with themselves about their situations and do their best to get through this well.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. I'm Eva Longoria. And I'm Maite Gomesrachon.

We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast. Hungry for history. On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Listen to Hungry for History on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them make progress with their financial goals. You can listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One day down the road you will be teaching med students or nursing students and you will share with them the journals. So when you were on the front lines of this pandemic and your future healthcare professionals were going to say wow you were on the front lines of this pandemic and your future health care professionals are going to say, wow, you were there. We are here. These journals are a gift to a future that we're not even going to be in anymore, but I really feel like all these digital journals are going to be remarkable. So keep them. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so grateful that you're here every single

week to listen, to learn, and to grow. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love, is out. And I cannot wait to share with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book. For you to listen to this book, I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eightrulesoflove.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep or let go of love.

So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour. Love rules. Go to jsheddytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. And I want to give a special thanks to each and every one of you that are listening right now because I know

right now there's a lot of anxiety, there's a lot of fear, and it's still easier these times to fall into our bad habits, to go backwards in our lives. And hey, that's okay too, but if you're turning up every single week and you're committing to be here and grow, I promise you that the skills, the techniques and the approaches that you will learn on this podcast through our incredible guests will help you navigate the noise that you experience throughout your day. If you're here every single week and I know some of you are listening every single day to an episode, I promise you that that moment of calm, that moment of relaxation, that moment of insight will help you deal with the challenges that are in front of you.

Now today's guest is extremely qualified in supporting and helping us navigate through this trouble some time for each and every one of us. As you all know, her name is Dr Romani, and I met her recently, or had the good fortune of meeting her, literally a few weeks back at the red table. Both of us were on this episode of Red Table Talk, which if you haven't seen, I highly recommend it, with our dear and neutral friend, Jada Pinkett Smith,

Willow and Adrian. It was a really powerful conversation. And I took away not only so much insight, but so much deep appreciation for Dr. Ramani. She has an incredible wealth of wisdom and depth of insight and she is so practical. So I promise you, if you take out the next 45 minutes with us of your day, it will give you so much

to help navigate the rest of your days. Dr. Ramani is a licensed clinical psychologist in LA and professor of psychology at California State University. She takes on our modern challenges of entitlement in, don't you know who I am? How to stay sane in the era of monasticism and entitlement. And she's the author of you are why you eat, change your food, attitude, change your life. Dr. Ramini, let's welcome her with a very happy, joyous and powerful on purpose. Welcome Dr. Ramini. Thank you for joining me. Jay, thank you so much for having me. I mean, it was such a pleasure. I'm glad we had one last moment

before the world locked down that we got to meet in person. And I look forward to it again, but for now, I'm just happy to hear your voice. So thank you. Absolutely. And I can't wait to have you on the show in the flash face to face when all of this is over as well. So I very much look forward to that.

You're very welcome on this show, like I said. I'm grateful, too. It was literally a day before everything locked down that we got to meet. So it definitely something special there. And I'm really excited for my community and audience to connect with you today and your ideas. And I think the best place to start is I'd love to hear about the multiple challenges you've been experiencing at this time, And I think the best place to start is I'd love to hear about the multiple challenges you've been experiencing at this time because I think that people find that teachers, doctors, leaders, thinkers, therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, we often have this view that they don't go through the same things we do. And it's a very limiting view.

And obviously, we know it's untrue. I was sharing with you earlier that, I've lost two people in my extended community. And granted, I didn't have a direct connection with them, but a lot of my friends and family have been affected by their loss. So I'm dealing with loss through them. I also have around 20 to 25 friends in England

who've all had mild to severe symptoms of COVID-19. Granted, they've not been tested, but some of them have had some really severe symptoms. So, tell us about what you've been experiencing at this time on a personal level before we look into some of your great insight and advice. Well, you know, thank you so much for asking, And I am so sorry for your loss in your community. And it's just a wake up call that everyone's being affected so differently. So I hope that people in your world are

going to recover quickly and just be able to come back to being fully healthy when this is over. On my side, Jay, it's mixed in the sense, the sense of, and I intumated this when we were on red table talk, it's probably the hardest element of all of this for me is my parents live on the East Coast. And I had actually gone, my mom has a health problem and it's a degenerative health problem. And so we were all ready to go ahead, have her get a surgery at the end of March, early April. And because it's a generative condition, it's just going to keep getting worse, but it wasn't considered emergent yet.

And so the whole plan, I mean, we all had our plans at the beginning of March, right? I was going to go, I was going to do my work remotely, I was going to go out to the East Coast and fly back and forth for the six months she recovered and on and on and on, and then boom, this happened. And so now my mother continues to have this degenerative condition. And we're having every day to consider new ways of thinking about making decisions. Ultimately, if she does get that surgery in the next two months,

which you may need to get, where once we thought we'd be able to sit at her bedside and be at support and talk to her and read to her and be present to her, she's going to have to go through this alone. And so I think that it's my daily contact with her. Mercifully, she's tough as nails and she really is a wonderful attitude about this, but I can sense her fear.

And so I think that her story brings to light what many families are going through around the out there, which is the health crisis isn't just about coronavirus, it's about people who have other health issues, cancer, cardiac issues, the need for other kinds of surgeries, something like my mom's condition, which is just teetering on whether or not it's going to become an emergency in the next few weeks or not. So just say if there's one thing that keeps me up at night, it's being concerned about

her. I got two daughters and I feel for my older daughter is at college and she had to come home. And while that's the story of every single college student on the planet every single one in the struggling like what is this sort of a dream halted and so they're kind of getting back into that my other daughter in high school had all the fun things you have in high school that things you're going to do and again while this is sort of like they're going to have to adjust and this is a great place for them to learn resilience you do see the grief that they go through and they're bored to death and, you know, and

try helping them kind of through the boredom. And I'm working quite a bit. And so I think it's a lot of these issues being far away, not being able to fix things worried about my mother, but also so worried about many of my clients who still have the issues that they've always had, Jay. And so people who had existing anxiety, this has really multiplied that anxiety. People who had existing relationship problems, there probably many really is worse than ever.

So I'm seeing those struggles, and obviously some of the clients I work with are healthcare professionals. So they live in anxiety about their health. Some of my clients have gotten the virus and so their anxieties for their own health and mortality. So it really is, it's opening up so many different things. And I'm just trying to get up each day and kind of be the best.

Romity I can be for everyone I'm there for. So it's a lot. So those are a lot of the things I go through. And then some of my own hopes and aspirations, Jay, I'll be, frankly, selfishly. I had really spent several years building something up and we had launched it and we're ready to go and then it all got dismantled. And so there's grief.

And I had to only word I can use is that everyone's grieving. That was my grief. And I allowed myself to grieve instead of saying, no, everyone has it worse. And many people have it much, much worse. This was my loss. And so I grieved that loss.

And now it's acceptance and figuring out how can we find the jewels and the ashes. Yeah, absolutely. And that's why I want to thank you. And first of all, send love to your family and your way. And also just thank you for still showing up in the world, despite having someone to navigate in your own personal life. I mean, how do you, how do you deal with that part first? Like, when you're looking at what you're saying, you're spot on that, you know, the healthcare challenge right now is not just people suffering with COVID-19, it's actually people who had surgery planned and they've been rescheduled or how are you dealing with that? What is getting you through that challenge personally? And I know earlier before when we were speaking you were talking about

being more present and doing what you can in the day. One of the things that are helping you personally. I have to say that you know all the training, all the classes, all the reading I've ever done on mindfulness, what has happened in the last three weeks became a master class in mindfulness because you really have to recognize the absolute sense of powerlessness, which we always had that powerlessness. You know, I was raised in a Hindu family where the sense of control and even any sense of material, anything, but certainly the sense of control is all in illusion. And while I was raised on that philosophically, I don't think I embraced it until the last few weeks.

And so it is very much about what can I do in each moment? How can I be present with a client? How can I be present with my child? How can I be present on a conversation with my mother? And one thing we do know, for example, any of us are feeling anxious. And very common in anxious people is like, it's like a concept of sort of like fortune telling,

like looking into the future. It's always going to be like this, and nothing's ever going to get better. And my mom is going to die and all of that. And that's very much a symptom and a pattern we see in anxiety. And now I'm catching myself, my mom is here today. My daughter is making breakfast,

the cat is walking up the stairs, like it has literally shifted it for me, something I really hope and pray remains permanent and for me to really hold on to the illusion of control we ever had in the first place. And recognizing that I can be gracefully present in every moment and instead of sobbing and mowing and whaling mother, checking in that she gets the cookies I delivered her, did she, what is she doing right now? How is the weather?

And we're able to know those moments. And so that has been a wake up call for me. So this thing I preached to clients for 20 years. Now I'm living 24-7. And it has been a game changer for me because I'm thinking, OK, this is what I have in front of me and I do my due diligence and I get up and I'm working on my taxes like I am focusing on the future but it's a, but there's still very much a being in the moment. I feel like even though my kids probably wouldn't agree with it, I'm spending more time

with them in ways that we never would have at this time. And so there's there is some beauty that emerges from staying in these moments, even of things like, you know, things like loss of income and those in some experiencing right now. I'm like, okay, that's right now. I'm able to, I'm able to pay this month's mortgage. We'll think about next month. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences

by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities Like does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain Steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagelman on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Debbie Brown and my podcast deeply well is a soft place to land on your wellness journey.

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My work is rooted in advanced meditation, metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma-informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves, the more we are able to bring our creativity to life and live our purpose, which leads to community impact and higher consciousness for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well is available now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Big love.

Namaste. This is what it sounds like inside the box-car. I'm journalist and I'm Morton in my podcast, City of the Rails. I plunge into the dark world of America's railroads, searching for my daughter Ruby, who ran off to hop train. I'm just like stuck on this train, not where I'm gonna end up. And I jump. Following my daughter, I found a secret city of unforgettable characters, living outside society, off the grid and on the edge. I was in love with a lifestyle and the freedom, this community. No one understands who we truly are. The rails made me question the way I was.

I was in love with the lifestyle and the freedom this community. No one understands who we truly are. The Rails made me question everything I knew about motherhood, history, and the thing we call the American dream. It's the last vestige of American freedom. Everything about it is extreme. You're either going to die, or you can have this incredible

rebirth and really understand who you are. Come with me to find out what waits for us in the city of the rails. Listen to city of the rails on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Or cityoftherails.com. Yeah, it's really refreshing hearing you say that because like again, just as we think that leader and healthcare professionals and thinkers and therapists don't have their own issues, we also think that people don't really sometimes use the skills that they talk about. And I think, you know, it's times like this that prove to us all that these skills really work and that we can continue to use these times to perfect those skills so that when they may

be less needed, they're still as useful to us then as they are now. And so thank you for sharing that so openly and vulnerable with us. And again, I'm sending lots of love and praise to you and your family and hoping that anyone who's been affected in that way is also feeling supported and cared for. So let's talk about how a lot of the things that you're helping your clients with which I think will be a lot of our audience is challenges. What are the top three things you're being asked right now by the people? The clients in your life or people in your life that are going through challenges. What are the ones you're seeing as the biggest points of concern for people

right now? Here, I'm going to start with an interesting one and I'm going to tell you and it's going to catch you by surprise. It's guilt. And the guilt is people saying to me, you know what? I'm okay. Like, you know, we, I've got enough in savings. And I gotta remember, Jay, anyone who's still coming to see me is still able to pay the bill, right? So that's almost a selection bias there. But even that said, like people who have other things going on, they're saying,

you know what, I'm doing okay, like so far. No one I know has been gotten sick or if they've gotten sick, it wasn't that severe. I have the people I need to take care of are near me. I'm actually able to do some of my job from home or I'm able to give some attention to my kids. So people are actually see that they want to talk about things that aren't COVID-19. They're like, can we actually talk about my marriage or my divorce or my, and it's very interesting because it's as though if you aren't talking about the catastrophe in the room, it's somehow some sort of massive betrayal.

And so that has been fascinating to me. I'm saying, oh no, your pain is always valid when the middle of a calamity or not. And so it is that giving voice that your feelings are your feelings, they're always valid. But in the day and age, we're living in, Jay, it's a little bit hard for people who feel like, I can't take my problem to the world. Again, let's use the example of a high school student. It happens to not be affecting my daughter because she's younger, but high school students who are losing, I don't know,

they're senior prom and they're graduation. It's not unusual for them to almost feel like they're shamed or something like that. What are you worried about such a thing when the world is falling apart? And my heart aches for them because that is their grief and it is very real. And now if somebody is silencing them, they're not only feeling the grief, but now they're feeling guilt and shame for actually trying to bring that feeling in. So number one is this sort of interesting complex form of guilt, shame, you know, issues. You're so, so right about that.

And I remember when we were speaking about this, we were talking about how, what ends up happening is that we feel guilty and then we reflect that guilt onto others and make them feel guilty of how they're dealing with it. Oh, we judge ourselves, and then we're judging how others are people are dealing with it.

Yes. Yes. And so our judgment and guilt becomes everyone else's or we judge ourselves and then we're judging how others are dealing with it. We act to respond to it. And so our judgment and guilt becomes everyone else's judgment and guilt. And like you said, that becomes really, makes us feel disconnected from everyone, rather than connected to our pain, not simply making our pain disconnect. Yes. And what I love about what you say, and what I've been really thinking about is that we shouldn't really belittle anyone's pain, we shouldn't really make anyone's grief feel feel less that. You know, that kid missing their prom, that's different to someone losing to someone who's

suffering with COVID-19, for example. And the truth is, it is different, but your point is that you should still allow that person to mourn their loss. I remember you saying that. Yes, and it really goes to sort of like that, that's I can point, which we'll build on this first point, which is grief, right? So we're going back to that idea of not, you know, of people allowing themselves to feel what they feel because I think we're all having this moment and it's also, so again, it's a two-way street jay. There's a part of the person who is upset because they lost, I don't know, there's an opportunity or a vacation or a prom or wedding or any of these things that were significant

to them that now they can't do, right? And so they're having their experience and they sort of feel guilty or embarrassed that they're they're grousing over this thing that maybe seemingly small when there's so much going wrong in the world. On the flip side of that though, that we may sometimes lose patience with people who are saying those things, right? And both of those sides of the equation J are human. And I really want people to sort of hold on to their humanness. So what maybe going through your mind is, okay, so you're, you know, oh my gosh, I can't believe this person's still talking about whatever it is, a vacation or

something like that. And you're getting frustrated. That's also very normal in human, especially if you're experiencing things like job loss, concerns about sick family members or whatever is happening in your world that's your world, that it's also okay to have that human reaction. So it's really where the mindfulness comes in is that maybe catch yourself before you say something to them like, why don't you just keep your mouth shut about your problems. Nobody cares, but maybe say, you know, I am, I'm so sorry. This happening and then allow yourself maybe to step away from the situation

until maybe you can get your head around empathically. What might be happening for them? So this is what I'm saying is that this is so complex because we may be grieving. We may be losing patients with other people, and all of it, all of it makes sense. And so I think we're all sort of collectively walking on some eggshells here as we try to figure all of this out and add to that the insult to injury that we're all quarantined and stuck inside with each other. So the breather as we once got by going to work, going to school, going to the gym, all of that's gone too.

So people are just, all of the stuff is colliding. And in another place, it's almost happening in a bit of a mean-spirited way that concerns me as a media where people might actually share an agony or a grief or despair they're having. And other people in that space may actually be shutting them down. Oh, do you really think we care about your stupid, I don't know, prom or party, when the world is falling apart. And I just put my head in my hands when I see that happen. I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no to that is yes, this. Yeah, that's a really important point. I want everyone listening to take that, that whatever pain you're going through, whatever you're experiencing, give yourself the time to feel the loss. It may take an hour, it may take you a day, whatever it is for you, dependent on the scale

of the challenge that you're feeling and the perspective you have of it, don't then enhance the pain by adding guilt and judgment to it because that's just increasing and giving you more to have to heal later on. Yeah. Right. And so that goes, the second thing I'm really seeing is a lot of grief. It is opportunities lost. It's things taking a different direction.

Is, am I going to be able to go back to school to this? What is my workplace going to look like? What have I lost? And everyone has lost something. None of our lives look the same as they did three weeks ago. And those losses aren't a continuum. For some people, they're actually catastrophic losses. They've actually lost the lives of people they loved

and no longer in their life. And then also they've lost all the sources of income for their family. And then for others, it may they've lost all the sources of income for their family. And then for others, it may be losses of opportunity, but all of that is grief. And we often only use the word grief, Jay, for death. You know, somebody dies. And that's just one of the many losses we can experience. But the grief-right reaction is very much a psychological cascade.

We experience, we've been experiencing it since we've been human beings. That's just what we do. And it is a very real experience. And I think that people feel funny saying, well, grief. You don't have grief because you lost X or Y. That's not a living person. And you say, yeah, you do. And so it's giving people permission to go to the stages of grief and be very, very sort of gentle with themselves.

Which is what we would do. If somebody dear to us died, we would probably not with themselves, which is what we would do. If somebody dear to us died, we would probably not work for a little while. We would probably sleep a bit more. We might allow, give ourselves more time alone and more private space or time to talk to each other, the things we might do under the loss of a person, someone dying. And I think people almost feel like they should be doing so much and how dare they grieve, nobody's dead.

And I think by doing that, they're cutting short, a really important emotional experience of letting go. Absolutely, absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more and I'm so glad that we're having this conversation because you're so right, that's with the chandis come. Were there any more or were there the key ones? I would say then you're probably the third is everything that coalesces around this concept of anxiety. Things like loss of control, how to cope with uncertainty,

how to deal with your thoughts being distracted, and that all relates to a big piece, like a concrete piece of this, is people are getting angry at themselves for not being productive and not like my whole house should be painted and cleaned and alphabetized. I want to tell people that we're actually spending a lot of our mental bandwidth right now getting our heads around this situation. People might feel like how did another 14-hour day pass and I still have dishes in the sink and I still haven't done all the things I thought I would do because I'm stuck at home. I'm trying to explain to them that there's a whole part of your brain right now that's literally spending a lot of bandwidth like saying,

okay, exactly what's happening? I mean because our ability to estimate threat right now is a little bit off because in one hand we're being told you can't leave your house, you've got to wear a mask, you've got to constantly wash your hands, because there's a threat in the environment, something that can make us and the people we care about sick. And so our threat monitors are running higher. And when that happens, you almost need to think about your brain as like your house with the internet, like all these people are running devices, so the bandwidth is not as good, so things are taking longer.

It's the same thing with your brain. We have less bandwidth. So we're getting more mentally and psychologically fatigued. We're not as efficient. And I think a lot of people are really being hard on themselves, we're not being productive. And I want to explain to them, you have this whole other thing your brain is doing right now, that it wasn't doing a month ago. So be kinder, be kinder to yourself.

And self-compassion is everything. But I'm noticing some of my clients getting frustrated. Like, I'm so lazy, because I'm just staring out the window. And I'm thinking, actually, no, you're not. But staring out the windows, I should be back in there. It could be doing. Yeah, absolutely. And it's always that balance of, you know,

it's knowing how much space to give yourself, to deal with. Something that I want to get going on something going on something. I've had a lot of friends. I have a very organized morning routine that gives me a lot of certainty and let me ground in the day and then helps me get on with my day. And then as the day progresses, I allow myself to also let go a little and like, I'm making sure that I'm having game night or moving that with my friends, you know, virtually, I mean, or, you know, with my wife, etc. Trying to find ways to create social experiences, but I feel like my mornings are very organized where I'm very not given effective and then throughout and as the day goes, I allow myself, you know, I wouldn't

usually be doing that every night of the week, but seeing as we're all indoors all the time, I'm not having a game night or a movie night or a whatever it is that I want to do in the evenings, which allows me to have that social connection. What are some of the things that you think people can do now that we've been in this space for most people could be up to three to four weeks. What are some of the things now that we've had somewhat of an adjustment period that you think people can start doing to help them feel like they're growing or moving forward or feeling like there's some sort of certainty at this time? Is there anything that people can do? Is that even the right thing to aim for?

I think that yes, there is. I think you just nailed it, which is routine. And, you know, and routine can be things big and small. You know, I was working recently with a client who was literally trying to create a routine at home for her and her kids, hour by hour, and she had these massive whiteboards all over her house. And what was happening though, she was getting very fretful when that hour by hour by hour by hour thing couldn't happen. You know what I'm saying? So like, oh my goodness, we should already, it's almost like she was trying to make the whole school in the house. Like we should be going to this class. Now we should be doing this. And I think that there's a danger in getting too overly scheduled saying, oh, 10 a.m. I need to be doing this. One p.m. I need to be doing this. No. I think routine is something that is almost like a series of steps that you know that,

especially on the front end of the day, that's critical. Now, that's going to be different for everyone. Some people, some people, some people might be taking a walk, might be their coffee, might be they read the newspaper or news on the computer, whatever it is, that it's expectable and it's predictable and it's something that you sort of set something into place. Beyond that, I've been telling people before you get to stuck on time, like a 10 a.m. I need to do this and 2 p.m. I need to do that.

I do tell people as you party your routine today, set those three, maybe four things, three to five is the five words is a max, things that you want to get done today. And that could be for the laundry, change the bed sheets, write the blog, get your papers graded, whatever it is, depending on what it is you do. Get your kid through, you know, talk about the book that your child's supposed to read for school.

You've got those five things you want to get done. And frankly, as you get those ticked off, you might get them all done by noon and then give yourself the time and space. Other things may get explored at that point. So routine, to me, is really, really huge. And to all of us out there doing this work, it's routine, routine, routine. Number two is some form of activity.

And whether that is taking a walk around the block, walking up and down, if you have even like a little strip of sidewalk in front of your house, if you have a tread mill, and there's yoga videos, something, anything. I mean, it is amazing. I'm just even dance classes now online. If you have enough room in your living room that you could just turn it on and then just follow the dance routines.

Like there's so much stuff out there. Move your body somehow. Get outside if you can. It's raining in Los Angeles today as we do this. But, you know, even if there's a momentary break, if you can get outside, that would be great if you can't definitely try and move your body. And number three is to distract Jay. I mean, and I would tell everyone out there, and it could be sort of fun, make your list of 10, 20, 30. In fact, somebody, I was just people in my field were circulating all these documents

now to help our clients. Somebody sent me a list of 74 distractors, which are great. I'm circulating them. Can you tell us some of them? Can you? Yeah, yeah. In fact, I have to listen to it. Oh, great. Yeah. Tell us a little bit of paper on lines. That I can. Because so many of them, like, so let me give you some of the, because literally 74 things on this list are things like, you know, watch a documentary, color, like, you know, coloring, like a child would color a coloring book.

Do a jigsaw puzzle. Find a new podcast to listen to or keep listening to Jay's podcast. You know, go online and take a free drawing class. You know, make a list of all the birthdays of the people, you know, put them in your calendar and those that are coming up, send them cards. Take on like, if there's a wall in your house, you want to paint it. Watch TED Talks. Play a board game.

Start a journal of your dreams, because we're all actually dreaming a bit more right now. Bake something, even if you just eat half of it. Find a pen pal, start writing actual hard copy letters to somebody again. I mean, it's like, listen to some new music you've never listened to before. Do the things you're saying,

do Netflix online with friends and watch movies with them and virtual game nights. So I mean, it's on and on and on. It's things like this that if you have a list of those things for you, I mean, for me, it's the silliest things. It's like I'm trying to file ancient papers and get rid of them. So that's my little break

and I have a little room in my house. It's got a TV in it. And so I'll go and watch a silly TV show. I'm also telling people like be judicious in what you watch. Some people are first of all, cut out from the news. Give yourself your news time, maybe twice a day, 10 to 12 hours separated, a morning little news hit, an afternoon news hit, and then you're done.

And watch something else. Committees are great right now because the distraction, I'm watching a comedy that was set at a different time in history now and it is beautiful to watch the costumes and the settings that I get so lost in it that 45 minutes after, now I've watched a show and the 45 minutes have gone, I'm like, wow, that was really an escape for me.

Because everyone's close together. Like, you're always in these rooms and there's lots of people and there's something sort of nostalgic now of watching people in a room. So I think everyone's got to figure that out. And I think in some ways, making it kind of fun, because then you can figure out which one you're going to do.

Because what you'll find is human beings really do reboot, and they do reboot pretty well. Unless we're talking about severe paralyzing anxiety. That's a different conversation where I would actually say that that's appointed with someone needs mental health, you know, kind of some sort of intervention. For what a lot of us are going through, it's just breaking out of it. Yesterday, my daughter was a great example. She got some really bad news having to relate to school and where she lives and she was quite upset about it. There was absolutely nothing, Jane, nothing that could have

been done at that moment. And you know what she said? She's like, you know what, I'm just gonna jump in the car and I'm gonna take a long drive, you know. And she did. And she did and she came back better. You know, so it was in that moment

she knew that was what worked for her. My other daughter was so frustrated because I wouldn't spend time with her yesterday. And she found some strange little canvas where she made a painting of a llama. It was a beautiful little painting she made. and she even made a little video of herself doing it. So, our kids are figuring it out.

We are figuring it out. And then she seemed to be in better spirits after it was done. So we've got to distract. So the routines, the distraction, movement, turning off the news, and also social interaction. We have got to connect. You're doing it through your game nights, Jay, and your movie nights. I'm doing it with the family in my house.

I'm talking to friends. You can talk on the phone. You can talk via FaceTime or Skype or Zoom or whatever floats your boat, but stay in touch with people because it's really easy to get your head going to a dark alley. Some people are still having lots of meetings with people they work with, but just make sure you keep having contact with people. That's really critical. We're a social species.

And without that social contact, we don't do as well. Some of us do, I'm an introvert, so I have to tell you, this isn't that hard for me, but I still miss people. And I feel happy that those people I can get the phone and call. Yeah, absolutely. These are such great tips. And I love the fact that distraction is being recommended because I think you've been distracted right now.

I think there's a big fear around. Oh my god, I get too distracted. And it's like, well, none of us have ever been through this before. It's not like someone had a plan of their sleeve of how to deal with this. And you can't expect yourself to have I know for me,

some of the things that I like to do to distract myself and I recommend to people is, I've been reorganizing my bookshelf and I discovered three or four books that I've never seen. I can't even remember if I bought them and gifted them and they've been such great books. And I'll just tell people the titles just because they're good. One called the Book of Questions. It's literally just got. It's really good. You're having 90 reflection questions, which are really interesting. I will just click through one and read one right now. I'd love to hear your take on it. Let's see if there's some of these questions they're useful or not. What could someone figure out about you by the friends you've chosen?

Yes. And I would say, read them with a light heart, not don't take them too seriously. And then there's another book that I got called, Do One Thing Everyday That Centres You And It's called Mindfulness Genoa. And it's just, these types of things are just great way to distract another one that I love is making a photo gallery of Looking through all the 67,328 pictures you have in your photo gallery and your phone and Reorganizing them into folders and reorganizing them into memories

It's sending them to your family that you miss and you know watching a slideshow together and having like a reveal party or a premier of it together like across the world like I think getting creative right now in it as a distraction is not your fun thing to do and I'm not feeling like I have to be achievement based but it can be relationship. I love that because also it's and it is again there's a lot of spontaneous moments coming up. I'm off its Alps again, same thing. My daughter found an old box of photos and for 45 minutes she'd hold a picture, especially ones of her infancy or her sister's infancy and tell me about this time.

It led to conversation. I know we never would have made the time to have that box with a state buried. All of these things, that foster connection, that foster mental activity, I'm a huge fan of reading right now, or maybe listening to audiobooks, but I love the idea of reading because it really does. It allows your mind to wander, especially fiction. I am, I love fiction and I don't spend make enough time for it and I'm reading a book now and you get lost in trying to create the imagery in your mind and all of that. So I do think that those distractions are out there.

I do understand many people feel very paralyzed in the face of all of this because I, you know, the anxieties of thewhelming. And I also know like one of the biggest struggles is for people who are trying to balance both working at home and managing children, you know, especially smaller children who do need to be supervised. And I know there's a fair amount of fatigue there. So I'm also telling people, just be kind to yourself. You know, like sometimes all these want to be in the same silly room as you.

And it may be you're watching their TV show, which you've got a book on your lap or something like that. So there's a lot of interesting opportunities for here for how we consider our human relationships. But again, I am acknowledging that even as I say all of this, it's not going to work for everyone. I don't know that there's one magical strategy that's working for everyone. And once you brought up Jay on Red Table Talk when we were talking to Adrian, you brought up the

idea of journaling. And I actually thought about that a lot after you made that comment. And it's interesting because I'm really making this suggestion. I always have, but I'm making it more strongly to people, this idea of journaling, and I'm saying to them, here's where the journaling's going to get interesting now. Imagine if you had the journals of like a grandparent or great-grandparent from the Great Depression, all of us right now have the opportunity to write these things that whether there are grandchildren or great-grandchildren

or other family members are going to open these one day and say, I'll never be afraid'll be very happy. And it is our granny's journal from the coronavirus pandemic. And they, I mean, you have to think of this as a gift down the road because I know from me, when I've had the opportunity in India, especially to talk to my own grandmother before she passed, hearing her stories and spoken in Zellago in our native language. It honestly is one of the most profound experiences of my life to understand where it is I've come from as an Indian woman, how much of a shift there's been in the world, her stories,

what she in essence had and didn't have, what I have as a result of that. It changed my perspective forever, it changed my level of meaning and purpose in a permanent way. These journals in a way that we keep now will be that pay it forward. And the group I started doing this with my clients were healthcare providers. I said, one day down the road, you will be teaching med students or nursing students. And you will share with them the journals. So when you were on the front lines of this pandemic. And your future health care professionals

are gonna say, wow, you were there. We are here. These journals are a gift to a future that we're not even gonna be in anymore, but I really feel like all these digital journals are gonna be remarkable. So keep them because even if it's just to sit one day with a potential grandchild or grand niece or someone,

this will be the greatest gift you could ever give them. I'm Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere and their toxic behavior and words can cause serious harm to your mental health. In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte, who was loved bomb by the Tinder Swindler. The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help.

As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissist in your life. Each week, you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Eva Longoria. I'm Maite Gomez-Rajón. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Eva Longoria. I'm Maite Gomez-Rajón. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast, Hungry for History! On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs,

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I need a shirt. Team flower, team core. Join us as we explore surprising and lesser known corners of Latinx culinary history and traditions. I mean, these are these legends, right? Apparently, this guy Juan Mendes, he was making these tacos wrapped in these huge 30-yas to keep it warm, and he was transporting them in a burro, hence the name the burritos. Listen to Hungary for history with Ivalangoria and Maite Gomez Rejón as part of the Micoltura

Podcast Network, available on the I Heartart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. In the 1680s, a feisty, opera singer burned down a nunnery and stole away with her secret lover. In 1810, a pirate queen negotiated her cruiseway to total freedom, with all their loot. During World War II, a flirtatious gambling double agent helped keep D-Day a secret from the Germans. What do these stories have in common?

They're all about real women who were left out of your history books. If you're tired of missing out, check out the Womanica podcast, a daily women's history podcast highlighting women you may not have heard of, but definitely should know about. I'm your host, Jenny Kaplan, and for me, diving into these stories is the best part of my day. I learned something new about women from around the world and leafyling amazed, inspired,

and sometimes shocked. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, I mean, that's just incredible. I love that. And it also lets us live with deeper meaning, how we will impact people in the future. Yes. Yes. And so I think there's so much greatness in that. I absolutely love that idea. One of the other things that I wanted to dive into more that you mentioned at the retailer as well is that you were talking a lot about how people right now may be struggling financially and economically can process that. And I thought that it's important to touch on that because a lot of people, including yourself, including me, I've had things that have been pushed back. I know plenty of people in my life who have had things that have been pushed back or couldn't launch. I've delayed and definitely, what do you say?

And I'm not asking it from an entrepreneurship or business minded. I'm looking at it from the mind, a psychology question, like, how do you deal with specifically financial loss? And what are good ways to work through that right? And I'm looking at it from the mind, the psychology question, how do you deal with specifically financial loss and what are good ways to work through that right now? Yeah, to me, Jay, the financial losses are some of the most profound here because they are, it's not just a loss of, I mean, real things, like material things,

like I gotta pay the rent, I gotta keep the lights on, I gotta buy the food, but also it's a loss of identity. I mean, people's jobs are a big part of who they are, that identity of getting up in the morning and getting on the bus or getting in the car or however walking, however it is you get to the office, that whole moment in the day, while it's sort of nice to work in your sweatpants from time to time, there's a loss of identity when you don't. So I think that what we've got to understand, this isn't just about not being able to pay the bills. So that's an enormous part of it.

It's also this sense of who am I? Like who, what am I, what am I about? Like what do I even stand for if I'm not going to my job? And so I think that putting aside that the financial planning and the numerous resources that people are putting out through how are you filing for unemployment and paying your bills and how all that's going to work. I'm going to defer that to people and all the websites out there that are starting to handle that. But it is this sense of grief, loss,

tremendous anxiety and uncertainty that is actually what people are very much ruminating about. A lot of these other things also matter, even with things like the routine, what's really interesting for me, Jay, is I've worked with numerous clients who started new jobs in the last three weeks, like brand new jobs, like employee orientation online, and people are hiring, so it's like,

there are these, it's a strange time that we think it's all shutting down, but what is it like they said, but such an enormous, like 17 million, or something like that, people have filed for unemployment, you know, it's a strange time that we think it's all shutting down, but what is it like they said? 17 like such an enormous like 17 million or something like that people have filed for unemployment something we've never seen before But this is above and beyond the financial. It's the loss of identity and even identity as being a provider or a person who does get you know model of work ethic and you know provides for family and does all that losing some of those identities and the fears around that as well I think a lot of it is to know you're not alone I think when people go through this many times they are alone

They're the one person who's lost a job in their friends of capters that there's a large group of people for whom this is happening And the uncertainty and the fear and the grief is normal, it's also catching yourself again, bringing it back to the present, worrying about it is not gonna put more money in your pocket, but what are the things you can be doing now in terms of applying for new jobs or how do you have to reconfigure your family's finances, and also how can you distract? How can you create other things you do during the day

that help you feel like you're being what we call a getting stuff done. But it is, this is the grief around the money. I'm going to be fine. Could you be more than a group and the money career of safety, financial safety, all of that is probably going to be greater than the grief around this whole pandemic and illness part of it because that's life. That's the stuff of life. And it's for some people's businesses they've tried to build over years and or have built over years and now are not launching. So it's a, people's businesses they tried to build over years and or have built over years and now are not launching. So it's a it's a that's a collective trauma and a collective grief.

There's some comfort in it but it's also very very heavy and there's no quick fix on that. Then then again a lot of stuff we talked about routine distraction staying in the moment. You know, and then for some people this is going to end up being J or real reinvention. Like how can I be doing me differently? Can I do what I do in a very different way? And yeah, a lot of fun. They think like, as I'm a college professor, when we go back in the fall,

because I've been on a one-year sabbatical, it is beginning to hit me. I'm in my colleagues have all had to do this already. They've all had to go fully online. It works for some people. It doesn't work for others. My partner is, he's an art professor, we teach a sculpture.

He's like, I am not sure how to teach sculpture, you know, on a, you know, so he's doing it, VH ads and they're doing the best they can, but we are reinvent ourselves. And I look at all the K through 12 teachers who are doing the heroic work of trying to create take home curriculum. My daughter's high school teachers are doing amazing, amazing things.

And everyone's learning something new. That's the wake-up call. We're going into a new future together. And I think it's the together part. And turning to others who are going through what you're going through is critical. Hello. And I'm sure you see this the most. Everything you're saying is,

everyone I hope you're listening, I hope you're taking a few notes, I hope you're going to try one of those 70 distraction activities that we heard. I think, you know, one of the challenges we have is that we're always like, okay, this is the new normal. And my question to that always is, what is normal? Because you know, normal isn't necessarily a good thing. And there wasn't, nothing was ever really normal because things were always changing. And this is obviously something bigger that we're all worried about.

But there was something we were worried about anyway before. And so it's almost like wanting things to go back to being the same. Does it ever make sense? Nothing ever is the same. Like nothing ever goes back to people. Could you help explain that from a psychological perspective or how I think we know that the only thing consistent is change and uncertainty, but we had this attachment to normal.

We felt safe when we had routines because we knew where the predators were, we knew where the threats were, we created our safeties around familiarity. Anything unfamiliar represented something dangerous or a threat. Now while our brains at some level have evolved past that, not entirely, it's why we might react very tentatively with a stranger, same thing. So it's now, and it's why many people just run to the familiar, even when the familiar is dysfunctional, they will go back to the familiar because it is just that. It is a huge phase shift to help people, the idea that familiar isn't the only way you can break out of routine, you can break out of familiar,

but it's not what our brains are wired to do. I don't know if you've ever read Rick Hansen's book, Buddha's Brain, if you have, and that might be another good quarantine book for you to read, because it's a top flight book, because what Hansen argues in this book is that, you know, our minds, our memories are very much oriented to remembering the stuff that keeps us safe.

And that stuff is largely not good. It's like, where does the tiger live? Where is the poison is buried? You know, where, you know, here comes another bill, here comes a notice from the IRS, like threat, threat like threat threat threat Because we are we are focused on those things again because our brains are designed to keep our little organism intact He argues that it takes a intentional work to change our orientation to joy You know or even to me. I don't argue are you even beyond joy is meaning?

How do we keep orienting ourselves to meaning? Meaning, meaning, meaning, meaning, that's everything. I think we talk too much about happiness. It's really about meaning. Meaning isn't always blissful happiness, but it's something bigger to me. And so, I think it's absolutely. We orienting the brain.

And this to me, people spend hours in the gym trying to work their bodies in a new way to get that new muscle. I am telling you, go to that gym that is for your mind and do that same kind of resistance training with your brain, like figure out a way to orient in a different way. Routine isn't always good. In fact, this is the first time at an entire global population level. We're learning we're going gonna have to change routine completely.

And listen, this has happened in history before, it's happened during wars, it's happened during the Great Depression. We've been here before, is this the problem? Was this is all so spaced out, that we don't always learn, and I have to say that any of us who've had parents who were immigrants or migrants or refugees of any kind, we saw them do that.

Like I saw that in my, what my parents had to go through to immigrate to the United States. It wasn't easy. There was no FaceTime or anything like phone calls. I saw that they had to go, they had to literally flip a life. And so I think all of us in our world have somebody who completely flipped the life and left an entire old one behind. My advice to everyone is figure out who that person is in your world. It may be a grandparent, maybe an aunt, maybe an uncle, at least maybe someone older, you know, talk to them and figure out how they went and they literally turn

their life 180 degrees. And Jay, it doesn't just have to be some older than you. I truly believe at this time in history, one of the groups of people who gets this better than anyone is anyone who survived trauma. Because anyone who is a trauma survivor knows what life feels like. You're living your life, you're living your life, an event or a series of events happens,

and your life will never be the same again. And a trauma survivor, in some ways, had it more difficult because they're the only ones often who are very small group, survived that. And they're like, oh my gosh, my life is completely changed, but other stuff hasn't. We at least are all going through this trauma together, but trauma survivors get what it's like to have a life and not have that life anymore, and now have to go through a very, very different world that is specific to them. So we can do this. People do this all the time. We just have to, we just you have to understand we can do this. You can reinvent, you can do things differently and this is a

call to arms. This is a real call to arms. For sure. No, I think you're spot on and I want you to know that if you could see me, I'm like nodding away right now. I'm just completely, you know, this is exactly what we need to try and do. Now, tell me about what's happening with people who unfortunately this time fall back into their default old habits, whether that's alcohol, or whether it's an addiction or a drug, or even going back into their default old habits, whether that's alcohol, or whether it's an addiction or a drug, or even going back to an ex-boyfriend or a girlfriend at least. I think these kind of scenarios shock us into our past. They just take us back into, again, what Tick-N-Out Han would call familiar pain versus unfamiliar

pain. We go back to that familiar pain because the unfamiliar pain of being alone or dealing with this new challenge is feels too big to bear. How does someone process themselves feeling like they're going back to a toxic relationship or going back to a toxic habit? Well, so again, a lot of the going back, the going back to the toxic habit, going back to the unhealthy relationship is strangely in paradoxically an attempt at getting control. Because the devil, you know, is at least something you know. And at a time when everything is so uncertain, we're going back to the things we know, even

when there are things that are not good for us. There's comfort, you know, whether it's comfort food and comfort dysfunction, we go back to, we go back to comfort. So you know, it's interesting. I was, I was reading this workbook this morning that I'm using with clients and there was, they had this wonderful quote by the, I think, Roman philophist, philosopher, epic teetus and he says, what assistance can we find in the fight against habit?

Try the opposite. And again, it goes back to my training. I'm talking about is do the opposite, you know, of what you usually do. And that becomes like, oh, I usually do this. Oh, for fun, let me try to go to, you always go left, fake right. You know, and I want everyone to, you know, fake right. And now we have a little bit of the time and the stuckness to play with the oppositeness. Part of it is to catch yourself and say, oh, this is how I usually

do it. What does the opposite feel like? Because to understand what you're doing, is you're getting drifted into that familiar lane because it is a way to have a sense of control and predictability, because even dysfunction is predictable, but it is mindfulness to be aware of what it is you're doing. It's thinking to know that this is you're going to end up in exactly the same place as you did before.

And then third action is to try the opposite, to do something different. And sometimes doing the opposite and doing something different is sometimes not always, it's uncomfortable. And so it's also learning discomfort is part of the journey and that if you can find meaning and purpose in that discomfort, it will make more sense. Like, oh, yeah, this is uncomfortable, but I'm trying the opposite. I'm breaking out of a cycle. I have always, my quest, my meaning, my purpose is to, I'm wanting to break out of my dysfunctional cycles.

I've been wanting to try a new path. And I have to say, again, Jay, for many people out there, this is going to be the slap across the face for people and say, to heck with it. I'm going back to community college. I'm going to work towards getting that degree. Why I've lost everything else now, and why not finally think about starting that

on my own business, or moving here when the borders finally open to hear there or everywhere? I think a lot of people are having some wake up calls like, wow, if it could be taken away this quickly, maybe I need to sort of view this as a call to arms, but that means doing the opposite. And that oppositeness is really sort of an interesting place for people to play around with right now. Yeah, absolutely.

I'm completely with you. And I think, yeah, like you said, knowing that for the first time, we can really feel like we're in something together. The whole world, right? It's like, there's never been many things that people could all say, we're all apart, this, we're all experiencing it. And now's the biggest time to realize that there is meaning and purpose in that because that purpose connects all of us and affects all of us. And it's unique to truly feel understood. Whereas now on every different level there are plenty of people who can understand exactly what you're going through. And so I think of our need to feel understood for the first time is really something that we should exercise, where we can

share with people that are close to us, that we love, that love us, and feel understood. Tell us about relationships. And we talked about this bit on red table talk. But you know, with so many people spending so much more time together, what are some of the positive practices that couples and relationships can take on because I also feel just like you and you know where this podcast started,

there are a lot of people who currently are carrying everyone else. Yes. How do we help those carriers in our homes, whether it's the mother or father that does all the cooking, the cleaning, the teaching, the kids, their curriculum? We have us carrying that. How do we help the carrier, even if we're not the carrier? And how come we ease our relationships at this time? So I think there's two levels of that. I mean, one is within the household, right?

So if you're actually household with people and you somebody's taking on the burden of something step in, you know, step in. And, and that also means for the people who are doing all taking on the burden, you got to let people in. So some people are saying, well, this is ridiculous. If I let them into a kitchen, if I let the kids into the kitchen to help make dinner, they're going to make a mess, let them make a mess, let them learn to take that, help take that responsibility. And it may be that you're eating some not great spaghetti, but they learned at that point. They wanted to help, let them help.

I think that we've got to let our helpers in number one. Number two, if you are somebody who's doing a lot of this work, and it might be just because, developmentally, whether people in your home are, they can't help as much, or they're not, they're juicing not to help or whatever, is that then you've got to take care of you. Like you've got to give yourself that point, like I'm putting my feet up for a minute

and you've got to give yourself that permission, give yourself the time to take a break. Now, if you're, if you're like, you care about, let's say it's your friend across the country who you know is stuck at home with the three kids or is taking care of elderly family members and keeping them safe or is having to drive around and drop in groceries, whatever their stories are, their first responder

or their healthcare professional. And you want to be there for them, but you can't because you can't physically get to them and help them. Call them, send them text messages, say, you're amazing. I see all that you're doing. You know, you're a hero to me. I wish I could help more, but if there's anything I can do remotely like. But just letting them know, I see how hero to me. I wish I could help more, but if there's anything I can do remotely like. But just letting them know, I see how amazing you are. I see what you're doing. Like you said, all that anybody wants

is to be understood. And even if for many people can keep carrying your heavy, heavy burdens, if they know there's someone bearing witness. And I think that we all, every single person on the planet right now should be rallying to bear witness to those around us in any number of ways. If you're going into the grocery store, you offer a kind word to the clerk who is putting

themselves at risk to be there. If your friend is a first responder, you just tell them, I love you. Thank you for all you're doing. Please be safe. Whatever you reach out to and you're like your friend is homeschooling three kids right now. You say, girl, you are my hero friend is homeschooling three kids right now. You say, girl, you are my hero. And if there's anything I can do, maybe I can zoom in and teach your kids history, I'll do that for you.

But we all have ways we can care for our carers, but it means we have to jump out of our own heads long enough to recognize that people around us need something. Sometimes it's just sort of a smile. Thanks for being there. Now back to your original question, Jay of relationships, we comes to intimate relationships. One thing that people can really learn right now is now that we're all in proximity is take that. I work with difficult antagonistic narcissistic relationships. That's a different episode. That's a different day because obviously those things are getting more and more toxic by the day. But for relationships that do have good bones, you can keep those good bones but you're going to have to be more aware. Just let your partner know I see what you're doing. Thank you. You know, thanks for helping. How can I help you? With the other people in your home know I see what you're doing. Thank you. You know, thanks for helping. How can I help you?

With the other people in your home, I know, good listen, I got two adolescent daughters and there are times I just want to scream, but I have to take a step back and say, they're so frustrated that they can't see their friends and do the things that teenagers do. And when I catch myself, I can say, I am so sorry, I know this is hard,

and I'm working all the time. So they're frustrated that I'm not available. And instead of saying, you know, wanting to scream and then saying, Hey, I'm making money for the family. I want to scream at them. Instead, I have to catch myself and say, you know, they're going through their process and say, how can I help? And maybe it's just I cuddle under their comfort and watch these ridiculous TikTok videos. They watch me. Not what I want to be doing with my time, but it's what they need. And so it's giving

them what they need to help them go do the next thing that they need to do. Yeah, absolutely. And again, this is such valuable insight right now, because encouraging people to serve and support anyone, I think sometimes we see services raising a million dollars or raising a hundred thousand dollars or you know, or impacting thousands of lives. And actually it's just about that one smile, it's just about that one phone call and that one person. And I think now's the time to reencourage that that community tribe vibe where you have certain parents who help with the education, others who will help with food delivery. Whatever it is, like, ways in which we can support each other right now. And actually what I find is that service

helps us find the meaning in purpose. Yes. Because right now when we're like, what do I do? I don't know what to do. I don't know how I feel useful or accomplished every day. When you make someone smile or when you make, when you help someone else's child learn,

something with your own child learn, something like that feeling is so rewarding and and sometimes it's even more rewarding when you're going outside of your own home and supporting others as well as supporting your home of course we know charity starts at home but I think it's important that we do try and serve and extend ourselves where we can to whatever degree we can because there's something to be said for finding meaning in purpose there. Absolutely. I mean, and that is where so much of meaning in purpose is found, is service to other. And that looks many different ways. For example, I know in LA, there's a website that I get emails from called LA Works,

and it's all the volunteer opportunities people can be engaging in both in-person or remote. And there's things people can be doing. And so it's figuring what that is. I think that even, let's say you work in a company and you lost your job and you still have co-workers and reaching out to them, hey, you do an okay. I mean, people also lost their jobs too. There are a thousand small things we can do.

It doesn't have to mean that we're putting ourselves on the front line, lines and causing actually more problems on the telling us to stay home. Figuring out what those things you can do for others, because that is really where the core of meaning and purpose is. And I do think that this is a time when I hope everyone at home was drilling down and saying,

what am I about? Like really, what, because this is, this has looked at a lot of existential questions for people. People are really graphic. If the whole world could go upside down like that, why was I walking on this day-to-day treadmill the way it was? And I know for a lot of people, this has been that wake-up call, which I don't think is a bad thing, frankly. And so now is like, what really, what are you about? And that can be anything. The first time I say, I'm really about family. Like, this is this is

everything to me. And they may be thinking about like, okay, how can what do I need to do in my life to really make that happen? Is it time? Is it whatever, whatever it may be? You know, how you connect with each other, all those things we've talked about. So I think it's a lot of people are being awoken to that piece of themselves when, you know, when the rug's been sort of pulled out from under them. And just when all the learning happens. 100% don't do it. Romney, you've been incredible and so generous with your time today. Thank you so much. I'm so deeply appreciative. Sorry for going over time. I've taken so many things. Push back a million things, but I really want to help people learn more from you because I really feel that the way you think through these challenges is so, so powerful

for people. And so I'd encourage everyone to go and follow Dr. Ramani on Instagram. She's Dr. D.O.C.T.O.R. Ramani R-A-M-A-N-I. Please please please go and follow her on Instagram where she's sharing these insights daily. I know you're doing lots of live streams where you're giving people advice when they're joining and asking questions. And so if this podcast has had an impact with you, please please please go and follow up with the work that she's sharing, especially around this time. And on YouTube as well, Dr. Ramanie, same name on YouTube. She has over 150 videos on YouTube that you can watch from everything, whether it's parenting through narcissism, of course, which is your major focus, which can

be a big challenge right now for people and so many other useful insights. So please don't follow her and support her social media. And Dr. Ramdi, is there anything that I haven't asked you today that you feel is really useful to people that you feel you should have mentioned? You know what, there was a line like again, I've been reading like you as much as I can and there was a line by Marcus, really've been reading like you as much as I can. And there was a line by Marcus, or really, because I really think that if people could hold on to this, I mean, if they were,

if he was saying this thousands of years ago, clearly it's, it had some staying power, is that it's, it goes like this, don't let your reflection on the whole sweep of life crush you. Don't fill your mind with all the bad things that might still happen. Stay focused on the present situation and ask yourself why it's so unbearable and can't be survived. All of us are survivors right now. And in each moment we get through whether

it's preparing lunch for our kids or looking for a new job or trying to just get through an hour without tears, that is all survival and you will survive it. And I think that life will always put challenges in front of us, but it is actually in these moments of sadness and fear that we grow, and we grow much quicker, more quickly, under these circumstances. And so growth hurts, growth hurts.

And I am a believer that this event may very well shake the trees in a way that we learn to be connected. I think we are all going to be so happy to see each other when this happens again and maybe really see what the beauty is of being a human being and having these people around us no matter how much we're suffering and seeing that our suffering and our joy and our bliss and our fear is being mirrored in every person we come across and maybe that this was sadly the wake of call we needed but here it is so let's one minute. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for many so grateful for your time. Thank you so much.

Love to your family and like I said, I'm so excited to get together again afterwards. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. I look forward to it. Yeah. This is going to be so useful to people right now. So thank you so much, honestly. Thank you. Thank you, Jay. Take good care. The one you feed explores how to build a fulfilling life admits the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on emotional resilience, transformational habits, and personal growth. I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists to spiritual

teachers, offering powerful lessons to apply daily. Create the life you want now. Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. The world of chocolate has been turned upside down. A very unusual situation. You saw this tax-appasion in our office. Chocolate comes from the cacountry, and recently,

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On the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions. Like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.