On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Dr. Rangan Chatterjee ON: The Science of Mental Well-Being & How to Live a Happier Life Without Burning Yourself Out

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

Do you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on CalmJay Shetty sits down with Dr. Rangan Chatterjee to talk about  the core of happiness. There is a huge difference between success and happiness, oftentimes we confuse the two as one and the same. One can be successful in their job, career, business, and family life, but can be unhappy. We need to learn the core of happiness to genuinely enjoy life by appreciating our past self, our current life, and the future we all look forward to having. Dr. Rangan Chatterjee is regarded as one of the most influential medical doctors in the UK and wants to change how medicine will be practiced for years to come. He hosts the biggest health podcast in the UK and Europe, ‘Feel Better, Live More’. He can simplify complex health advice so people can feel better and live more. Dr Chatterjee is known for finding the root cause of people's health problems and he highlighted his methods in the ground-breaking BBC television show, Doctor in the House.Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/What We Discuss:00:00 Intro03:11 Happiness is the byproduct when we do the right things08:12 We confuse success and happiness14:54 Accepting everything that has happened to you27:14 The process of alignment40:23 The 2-part exercise to stay aligned47:00 Alignment is not a destination you get to49:58 Dr. Rangan on Final FiveEpisode ResourcesDr. Rangan Chatterjee | InstagramDr. Rangan Chatterjee | YouTubeDr. Rangan Chatterjee | TwitterDr. Rangan Chatterjee | FacebookDr. Rangan Chatterjee | LinkedInDr. Rangan Chatterjee | BooksDr. Rangan Chatterjee | WebsiteFeel Better, Live More PodcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season, and yet we're constantly discovering new secrets. The variety of them continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share ten incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets.

Listen to season eight of Family Secrets on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty, and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton,

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Join the journey soon. Regardless of the progress you've made in life, I believe we could all benefit from wisdom on handling common problems, making life seem more manageable, now more than ever. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the One You Feed Podcast, where I interview thought-provoking guests who offer practical wisdom that you can use to create the life you want. 25 years ago, I was homeless and addicted to heroin. I've made my way through addiction recovery, learned to navigate my clinical depression,

and figured out how to build a fulfilling life. The one you feed has over 30 million downloads and was named one of the best podcasts by Apple Podcast. Oprah Magazine named this as one of 22 podcasts to help you live your best life. You always have the chance to begin again and feed the best of yourself. The trap is the person often thinks they'll act

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Now success and happiness can overlap for sure, but more often than not they don't. Happiness is happiness, success is success. You're gonna end up chasing society's idea, more money, a better holiday, a nicer phone. But I'm not saying those things are necessarily wrong. The problem is, is if we chase them too much at the expense of

what our happiness is. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. Now, today's guest is one of those few guests that we've had on twice now today and it's because his last episode was so special, so powerful. I know it impacted so many of you and his books have as well. So I'm so excited to talk once again to the one and only Dr. Rungan Chattity. Now he's regarded as one of the most influential medical doctors in the UK and wants to change how medicine will be practiced for years to come. His mission

is to help 100 million people around the globe live better lives. He hosts the most listen to Health and Wellness Podcasts in the UK and Europe feel better, live more, which regularly tops the Apple podcast charts. The podcast has received 50 million downloads to date and is consumed by over 2.5 million people every month. He's known for his ability and this is why I love him and why you'll love his latest book to simplify complex health advice and finding the root cause of people's health problems. If you remember his last episode, you remember we've really got into how doctors can differ and change

their perspective about how they view their clients and patients. And of course today we're talking about his brand new book which I'm going to hold up the virtual digital version, which is the world we live in now. Happy mind, happy life. And I really, really hope that all of you got and grab a copy of this book, 10 simple ways to feel great every day. Rungan, it's great to have you on the podcast again. It's great to see you. Honestly, congratulations on this amazing book and all your incredible success. And I can't wait for people to read it. But thank you for coming to talk to me about it. Jay thanks for having me on for a second time your show's fantastic it's a real honor and looking

really looking forward to this conversation. Yeah me too me too and when I was reading your book I love how you're changing the way we perceive doctors and how doctors perceive patients it's like this really interesting cycle of, here's a doctor talking about happiness and how happiness is at the core of our health. And that was one of the things I really appreciated when you last came on, when you were talking about, when you often see your patients,

you last a more, how many times do you see your friends? How many times a week do you get together with the people that you love? And I was thinking, wow, this is really a fresh perspective, and you've done it again. I wanna dive straight in, you talk about this connection between health and happiness.

I wanna start off trying to understand because often we find that pursuing happiness is actually bad for our health as well. So how are you seeing it differently? I'm not necessarily saying that we should be pursuing happiness directly. I think happiness is a byproduct when we do the right things. There are all kinds of things that we can focus on on daily basis, and if we do those things, we can talk about some of those later, for sure. I think happiness comes as a side effect of that. So it's not really, I think, the destination we should be aiming to get to directly. It's more, the kind of direction we might want to take in life.

It's something that I think we do want But it's becoming quite unfashionable these days to talk about happiness and that really really interests me But in terms of the relationship between happiness and health For me as a doctor it's always how can I get to the root cause of my patients problems, right? Yes, what symptom have they got but actually What's going on behind that? So they might come in with a headache or a migraine and sure, I can diagnose them and tell them what that is, but I want to help them understand, well, what is going on in your life and your lifestyle that might be contributing to this?

And for many years, I have said publicly on many occasions that about 80% of what we see as doctors is in some way related to our collective modern lifestyles. But then I began to wonder if years ago, Jay, well, it's lifestyle the root cause. And when I say lifestyle, I mean things like food, movement, sleep, and relaxation. And I thought, is there something that's even more important, even more upstream? And that has consumed me for a few years. And I really think there is. It's our happiness and our mental wellbeing.

So when we are happier with our lives and in our lives, we naturally become healthier. And I think there's two main reasons for that. Happier people. So people who are more content, if you're more in control of their life, who are living more in accordance with their values, actually, they naturally make better lifestyle choices. So if you feel good about who you are and what you're doing in life, you're less likely to feel the need to comfort eat and open that box of chocolates in the afternoon to get you through.

You're less likely to dive into the tub of ice cream in front of the sofa in the evening. You're less likely to open a beer or half a bottle of wine to help you drown your sorrows if you feel happier and more content. So I think that's one component. Our lifestyle choices become better and it becomes much easier. But I think there's another component as well. Research shows us there was a study called the Nuns Study and they followed nuns across the duration of their life and essentially once you had controlled for lifestyle, so same diets, same sleep patterns, same exercise habits. What's your control for that?

The happier nuns lived longer and they were healthier. Right, so it's independently linked with good health outcomes as well. And I've seen this with my patients, Jay, that if I can help them think differently, but if you're someone who allows the actions of other people to overly influence how you feel. You know, an email from your boss makes you feel really angry and annoyed and you don't know how to

process that. That is creating stress and tension in your body. That is also absolutely relevant to your health and your health outcomes. We don't think of that. People don't realize I think or not enough for us to realize. Certainly, I would say with the public, but also within my profession, that an inability to forgive holding onto anger and resentment, holding onto hostility is absolutely associated with all kinds of negative health outcomes, autoimmune disease, heart disease, cancer, you know, strokes, all kinds of things. So what do I want to do is to doctor? I want to help people. And I know I'm going to be able to help them better if I can help them become

happier. The reason why we're unhappy, and it would be interesting to go down that path because the reason why you're working on these things, the patients that you work with, why you wrote this book is because we are to some degree unhappy or dissatisfied or discontent with who we are. And we don't know what our values are because we've never been trained and educated as to how to develop them. And we don't know how to be aligned with ourselves because we don't know how to be aligned with ourselves because we don't even know what that means. We never really were exposed to that vocabulary or those words up until the last few years, even in mainstream society. When you're looking at the

root of our unhappiness, where is that root of our unhappiness that you're seeing it come from? I think much of it comes from society. And this idea of what success is. Right, so I think one of the big problems is that we confuse success and happiness. Now success and happiness can overlap for sure, but more often than not, they don't. Happiness is happiness, success is success. Unless you intentionally go through a process to actually define what those things are for you, you're going to end up chasing society's idea, more money, a better holiday, a nicer phone, a better hotel when you go and stay away with your family or your partner. Right, I'm not saying those things are necessarily wrong. The problem is is if we chase them too much at the expense of what our happiness isn't, many of us fall

into that. I have fallen into that trap, Jay. Right, I have absolutely, you know, I start off the book. I think the very powerful story about my dad's, you know, the book, I think, with a very powerful story about my dad's. Dad was, he grew up in India. He came over to the UK in the 1960s in search of a better life for him and his family. Yes, us here in the UK, but also for his family back home in India. And dad worked, incisantly. Dad was a doctor. There was all kinds of discrimination he faced.

He had to change speciality because actually, you know, he was unable to progress in the speciality that he wanted. Many Indian doctors will tell you this story from the 1960s in the UK. There was a glass ceiling for you. You couldn't go past a certain point. So dad moved speciality to help provide security and stability for us as a family. When Dad was consultant, my dad's life for 30 years was he would do his job in Manchester, Wundring, and Firmary as a consultant physician in the day.

And three to four nights a week, my dad wouldn't sleep at all. So, he'd come home at 5.30 in the evening or 6 p.m. In the evening Mom would give him dinner He'd go upstairs and shave and then there'd be a car picking him up at 7 p.m. And that'd be awful night He'd come back the following morning at 7 a.m Again have breakfast shave again. I remember he would be shaved twice a day Go to work dad did this for years, and here's the problem Jay. My whole adult life, until nine years ago when my dad died,

was being a carer for my dad. I moved back to the Northwest of England to help my brother look after dad. This kind of idea of what success is, it killed my dad, he chased it, He got it. I had a fantastic education, right? I couldn't want for a better education, but I never saw my dad's. You know, my dad died very, very early in the last 15 years of his life. We're hell. I think that story whilst potentially not as extreme for some people, there will be people right now, Jay, who love your content, who are listening to this show or watching it, and probably thinking, yeah, I sort of love my job, but maybe I'm working a bit too hard, and I'm kind of sacrificing the things in my life that are really important. So I kind of feel society gives us a false idea of happiness.

You know, we think happiness J is that billboard, you know, billboard image of the smiling couple on the beach with their children, with the ocean behind them. We think that's happiness. Now that's not happiness. That's a pleasurable experience that can form part of a happy life. No doubt, but that's not happiness. You know, I've got two young kids like I've gotten 11 year old son and nine year old daughter and you know,

all of us I think as kids younger than that when we're really young, we've got that inner happiness. You know, we're present, we're in the moment we're playing maybe with our siblings, maybe with our friends, we're not worrying about the future, we're not fretting about the past, we're in the moment, we're playing. Maybe with our siblings, maybe with our friends, we're not worrying about the future, we're not fretting about the past, we're right there in the moment. So that happiness is there inside us, but somewhere along the line in the book I call the adulthood contract,

we sign this adulthood contract, and things start to go wrong, and I already see it with the kids. Like, school doesn't teach us how to be happy. I don't think many of our parents teach us how to be happy. Society doesn't teach us how to be happy. I don't think many of our parents teach us how to be happy. Society doesn't teach us how to be happy. In fact, society probably teaches us the wrong lessons about what happiness really is.

And that's the key message behind this book, J, is to help people understand that happiness is a skill. Right, it's a skill that you can practice just as if you go to the gym and you do bicep curls every day, you're going to have bigger biceps. Well, you know, my consenction is I feel I've broken down the skill of happiness into 10 very easy steps to people. And if they practice them a little bit, they're going to be a little bit happier. And as they become happier, they're

going to become healthier as well. Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that story as well. About your father, which really encapsulate this idea really well, I think for me, when I think about what happiness means to me, happiness is the, as you said, ability, the ability to know how to navigate uncomfortable and uncertain times. Because when you know what you have to do, it's more important than wanting to know how things will end up. So we think our happiness is, well, how will this end up?

What will the result of this be? Will that make me happy? And to me actually go, no, actually happiness to me is knowing what to do right now in the moment. And having that sense of reflection and introspection and the stillness to be able to carry that out because the search, as you said, for that billboard happiness that's out there, that's a projection, again, a societal projection. We're trying to invent and create that in a world that doesn't allow for that every day or at every moment. And so knowing what to do in the moment to me is where happiness begins,

of knowing how to behave, how to think and what to do. And that's what these 10 habits do. You break down what you call core happiness as a three-legged stool, contentment, alignment, and control. I wanna go through each of these because they form the tenets of these, these 10 habits or principles you give us. But let's start with contentment.

And you describe contentment here. I've got it in the book. Feeling content means being at peace with your life and your decisions. That's really hard because most of us, when we look back, especially at the past, we think, wow, I've made a lot of bad decisions. I wish I tried that thing. I wish I never went out with that person. Well, I should have left that job a lot earlier. So most of us actually have a very negative view of our decision making process. Let's talk a bit about decisions,

especially decisions of the past that we regret. How do we create contentment around those? Specifically around decisions in the past, if we have a deep regret, let's say, or I wish I'd done something differently. I think the first step is to really try and get to a place of acceptance. You were doing the best that you could at that time with what you knew, right? If you could have done it differently, you would have. And, you know, it depends how deep you want to go with this, but certainly for me, one of the

things that's really helped me with my happiness and my contentment in particular, is with acceptance of every single thing that has ever happened to me or I have done, whether it's something I'm proud of, whether it's something I'm not proud of, whether it's something that actually I could make a case that I made the wrong decision. Now, actually, I made the very best decision for my growth because actually if I look back now and see that it was potentially a negative, it's about reframing it to go, oh, what did I learn from that? What did I learn from that? Oh, I never would have learned

that had that not happened. Had I not gone to that job that I didn't like, I can think of one particularly in my minds, early on in my career as a doctor, I was like, I was in a practice that I hated the framework and the structure there. Well, I would get frustrated, I would come home and complain to my wife every day. She kept saying, hey babe, you don't like it.

Why don't you leave? I can't leave. This is, it pays us money, it does this. Story, I created this kind of, this is, it pays us money. It does that, you know, story. I created this kind of, almost like a victim story around it. You know, I know the word victim can be very triggering for people. I don't mean it to be. Certainly you've talked about my own experience.

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We'll share a memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Corner flower. Both. Oh, you can't decide. I can't decide. I love both. You know, I'm a flower tortilla flower. Your team flower? I'm team flower. I need a shirt. Team flower, team core. Join us as we explore surprising and lesser known corners of Latinx culinary history and traditions. I mean, these are these legends, right? Apparently, this guy Juan Mendes, he was making these tacos wrapped in these huge 30-yas

to keep it warm, and he was transporting them in a burro, hence the name the burritos. Listen to Hungary for history with Ivalongoria and Maite Gomez Rejón as part of the Micoltura Podcast Network available on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What I've learned Jay is that you can always write a different story about any events in life. You've always got a choice in what story you put onto something and you can practice this and train it.

So one of my sort of tips for people is is any bit of friction you encounter in life, see if you can choose a happiness story around it. And there's a couple of ways that we can think about this. So if we remember back to March 2020, when the whole world was sort of going into lockdown and people were getting scared, there was lots of images of supermarket shells being empty and there'd be no toilet roll there. These are big headlines. The amount of people who were criticizing, I can't believe there's who's doing this, who's taking more. You can tell yourself that story for sure, but you can also see if you can

write a different story around the same situation. So, okay, what was going on there? Well, could it have been the every shop at that day took one extra role? And so by the end of the day, the supermarket shelves were empty. Okay, that's possible. Could it be that actually one person went in, and yes, they did buy loads and loads of packets

because actually they look after four elderly grandparents, and actually they're really worried about what's gonna happen. Maybe it was someone who actually went in and they wanted to buy as much they could and sell it on eBay. Okay, how'd you create a happiness story there? Ah, you know what, what must be going on in their life? Maybe they really don't have any money,

maybe they are so desperate, they don't feel they've got any opportunities in life, and actually this is an opportunity for them that they've seen to make a have any money. Maybe they are so desperate. They don't feel they've got any opportunities in life. And actually this is an opportunity for them that they've seen to make a bit of money. You know what I've realized? When it comes to most bits of friction in our life, the truth actually doesn't matter, Jay, for your happiness. The truth doesn't matter, right?

A happiness story that works for you. And this is something I try my best to do. It's probably the thing that's had the most impact on my feeling of contentment. Is that every day if I get a bit of social friction, let's say someone leaves a negative comment on my social media, for example. Instead of wishing it was other than the way it was,

oh, I can't believe they answered like that. It's like, oh, okay, let me go through it. Process here. You know, number one, is there any truth to this? Uh, okay, yeah, there's a bit of truth here. I can learn here. I've been given an opportunity to learn. If there's no truth here, oh, well, why is this bothering me?

And it's like putting the mirror up and instead of looking out there, it's like, what is being triggered within me? Is it my insecurity? Is it my need to be liked and loved. Do you know what is it? Because then you start to take control of the situation. Do you know what I mean?

I think it's, I think it's, you can rewrite a story on anything. And I'll tell you, when this was really brought home to me, Jay, if you heard of the Edith Eager, yeah, I don't know if you've interviewed either. If you haven't, you're absolutely. You would absolutely love talking to her. But Edath came onto my podcast last year. At the time, she was 93 years old. I think about that conversation pretty much every single day. It had such an impact on me.

When Edath was 16 years old, living in Eastern Europe, she was getting ready that evening. She was going to go on a date with her boyfriend. There was a knock on the door. And before she knew it, her and her sister and her parents were on a train to Auschwitz. She gets to Auschwitz within two hours of getting there. Her parents are murdered. She's there with the sister. She doesn't know what's going on. What's happening. And then later that day, she had to dance, right? She had to dance for some of the prison guards there.

And the last thing her mum said to her was, Edith, nobody can take away from you what you put inside your mind. So the first thing she told me was, when I was dancing, I wasn't dancing in Auschwitz. I was dancing in Budapest Opera House. I was dancing. There was a full orchestra there. The crowds were there. That's what I was dancing in Budapest Opera House. I was dancing. There was a full orchestra there. The crowds were there. That's what I was dancing.

That's the first lesson I learnt for her that you can create a story in your mind. And then she told me, Dr. Chastity, when I was in Auschwitz, I wasn't a prisoner. The prison guards were prisoners. They weren't living their life. I was free in my mind. And it just went on and on. And the words I think about every day, Jay, are when she said to me, wrong and listen, I have lived through Auschwitz, but I can tell you the greatest prison is the prison you create inside your own mind. And I thought, okay, if Edith Eager can write a different

story about events, a happiness story, if you will, about events in the hell of Auschwitz, that I'm pretty sure I can reframe most of the small frictions in my own life. And it's been so powerful for me, Jay. It really has. I mean, do you ever, how do you do a friction? Is that something you try to apply in your own life or how do you see it? Yeah, I mean, I just, everything you just shared right now and I had come across Edith E. G. Historian.

I didn't realize you interviewed her, which is fantastic. And so phenomenally here about your experience with her, everything you just said, I'm fully aligned with, and I don't think you could have picked a better example because to share it from someone who has been through the worst of the worst, and for that person to be able to create a reframe at that time,

gives us all an opportunity to realize how powerful it is. And so I am fully with you, like fully aligned, fully in agreement with you. And in my own small way, in my life, I do the same thing. And I think when we look at our life as a story, as opposed to a as a story, as opposed to a checklist or as opposed to a hit list or as opposed to a list of goals. Right? Like, it's a very different approach. When you see your life as a list of goals, and if you don't reach them, you don't feel good about yourself, you're missing the story.

Right? If you look at all the people who've achieved goals that we admire, they all got there because they lived a story. They didn't live a goal. They didn't live a journey to a goal. And so I do it all the time as well. I'm constantly reframing my experience of life. And what you said is so true, that in one sense,

there is no truth in one sense to any of our stories and journeys, because what is objectively the truth is just a perception. Yeah, I mean, I think you'll like this one, Jake, I know you're a football fan, or I should say soccer fan as I'm on your show. But they did the study, right?

They were talking to football fans, same incident, right? Everyone can see the incident. And they interviewed both sets of fans on different sides, what happens? Completely different version of reality over the same incident, right? Think about any, I guess, marriage or two partners, right? When they have a disagreement, there are two versions of reality, right? You know, it depends on which side of the table you're sitting on determines your reality. And I've learned actually, and it sounds quite controversial that for your happiness, I think sometimes the truth doesn't matter. It's the spin you put on it, that you can put a spin on it that's going to make you feel

disempowered and evict him and look I want to be respectful. I understand there are some pretty horrendous things that happen in life Two people I understand that and sometimes it's harder than in other times But this is something you can get better at you can always put a new story on it and and what happens then? Jay is that every day becomes a school day, right? Every day you're, you're being given, you're being gifted opportunities by the world around you to learn something about yourself. And a tip maybe for your audience, if they think, okay, this is quite difficult, right? You know, someone's done this and I don't like it. Something that I found really helpful is this idea that if I was that other person, I'd be doing exactly the same. And what I mean when I say that

is if I were that other person with their childhood, with their childhood experiences, with their parents, with the bullying they received at school, with the the boss that they had. If I were them, I would absolutely be making the same decisions as them. Yes. And yes, I honestly feel that if we don't think we would, you know, I invite people to consider maybe it's our ego talking because they made the decisions. That's their version of reality. And I find that gives me this ability to be compassionate, much more compassionate to every single person that I meet, whether I agree with them or not. And Jay, look at the state of the world at the moment, right? It's seemingly pretty divided, certainly online. It seems pretty divided. And I think this

approach not only makes us feel better, but I think when we can exercise this compassion to everyone, even people we disagree with, I think that's what's gonna make the world a much, much better and happier place. Definitely. And you reminded me of that, I'm sure you remember that famous Prince William meme

where he's holding up his fingers like this And so he's actually saying I think he's like number three and if you look at it from the other Angle it looks like he's putting his middle finger up and and it's like these two pictures that are put next to each other One of them looks like he's putting his middle finger up to the press But actually when you see it from another angle he's putting three and He obviously means something else by that And so I love that when we talk about contentment that makes a lot of sense. Let's shift to alignment I really like the way you define alignment. You said feeling aligned means that the person you want to be and

The person you are actually being out there in the world are one and the same and I remember a very beautiful thought by Gandhi whenever I think about alignment. And I believe he said that when you experience peace and harmony when what you think, what you say and what you do are aligned. And whenever I think about that or whenever I share that teaching, I find that most people think something but say something else. We say one thing but then we do a completely different thing and so we're living in this very divided world even inside of ourselves because it's completely disconnected. How do we start creating a more aligned life because often we're scared of saying what we think and we're even more scared

of doing what we say and then we're worried about whatever and else thinks of all of that. So alignment becomes a really big challenge. Walk us through that for a bit. Yeah, I mean the first thing to say it's not going to be super easy in the sense that it's not something you can just listen to us having a conversation and then immediately afterwards go, okay, cool, right now I'm going to go and add to a line in the world. No, this is a process, it's a very fun process, but it's a process nonetheless. So, you know, alignment, this idea that are in a values on our external actions are matching up, whatever that is. And the reason I guess I'm so passionate about this, Jay, is I've really, this is something

I've really struggled with pretty much my entire life. I feel that what I'm really trying to do these days is become more and more aligned and actually to really tune into who I actually am, which sounds like the easiest thing in the world to do. But actually for many of us, it's one of the hardest things because since we were kids we started to do things to gain the approval of others. But I know for me, for much of my life I only felt that I was worthy of love and acceptance if I achieved, if I was successful.

And I think for me, well I know a lot of it comes down to my upbringing, and, you know, I love my parents to bits. I think they did. I'd like to think they did a pretty good job with bringing me up, but there were some things. Again, there's two versions of reality. I remember, and I think there's something in the immigrant mentality here. I don't know if this echoes your experience or not, but if I came back from school with 19 out of 20 and something, my mom would say, well, why didn't you get 20? If I came back with 99%, my mom would say,

well, yeah, why didn't you get 100%? And I didn't realize it at the time, but I took on this perception that I'm only loved and really seen and valued when I win and get top marks. And that's very toxic because on the outside, you can appear quite successful. You can appear as though you're achieving and doing things. But on the inside, you know, there's nothing. There's a real deep insecurity.

I've had that for much of my life, I think, you know, external success looks good. But on the inside, you know, you don't feel good. And so you go to what I call these junk happiness habits, whether that be, I think, external success looks good, but on the inside, you don't feel good. So you go to what I call these junk happiness habits, whether that be drinking or gambling or these days Instagram, potentially overusing it. And this sort of stuff. So for me, the process of alignment started with recognizing why I behaved the way that I do. And it was a very rewarding process. It's taken a bit of time. Why I Behave the way that I do and

It was a very rewarding process. It's taken a better time But this is not one hit Jay that people are gonna just think oh, I need to do this and now I can the first step in any changes Awareness so even if someone's listening to this conversation and going Yeah, you know what I'm not living in a lined life like I, I'm not being the person out there who I really am. Okay, that is progress. Okay, you may want more, but that is a good start. At least now you know, and then you can work on the next stage. So there's many ways in which people can do this. I think doing some sort of values exercise is really, really helpful. I know we spoke about this when you came on my show, you've done a great job of this in your own book, Jay, of talking about values. In happy mind, happy life, there are some simple exercises to help people understand

what are your values. Can you choose three values from this long list and maybe once a week, you reassess, yeah, I think that is. That doesn't fit quite right. I'm going to tweak it. So you can keep tweaking until you really understand what these values are. And then you can look at your life ago, how much at a time am I living in accordance with these values?

And it's so simple, but just the act of writing it down and reassessing is really, really powerful. You start to make subtle shifts when you do that. So I think that's an important piece around alignment also. And I'm very, very interested in in your thoughts on this as well, Jay, this whole idea of core happiness, which has these three components, is basically, I was trying to come up with a model for happiness that actually people find genuinely practical and useful, not like a lofty concept, but can I come up with a model that holds true

in every single situation? And I, I think I cracked it with this model, of course, I welcome hearing where I may not have got it quite right, but I really think that this encompasses this deep sense of happiness, these three components, contentments, control, and alignment. And then I remember thinking, what about meeting in purpose? Because we keep hearing, and of course, your show is called on purpose, you talk a lot about purpose. I thought, well, where does meaning and purpose fit in here? Because a lot of people that you say say,

we shouldn't be chasing happiness, we should be chasing meaning. I spent weeks trying to solve this and the way I came down on it, what I think underpins this altogether, is that meaning and purpose comes with alignment. So meaning and purpose is important, right? It's a necessary ingredients for happiness But I don't think it's happiness in and off itself and the reason I say that is because Let's say this could be you or me for example. It could be someone listening. Let's say you have a job Let's say, that's could be you or me, for example, it could be someone listening. Let's say you have a job that gives you meaning and purpose

and you love it and it's helping the world, it really nourishes you. Okay, great, you've got meaning, but maybe you're working too hard, you're getting back too late each night. Maybe you're not spending time nourishing the important relationships in your life. Sure, you've got meaning,

but you don't have core happiness. And then you could take it to another extreme, let's say in World War II, you might make the case that a soldier fighting against the Nazis was living a meaningful life. But I'm not necessarily sure you could say that they were happy. So I'm all for meaning and purpose, but I think

it comes under the alignment leg of the core happiness model, the core happiness stool. I'm Mungeshia Tikhira, and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, cancelled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about

astrology, my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good, there is risk too far. And my whole view on astrology? It changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive in the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual

questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities, like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere and their toxic behavior in words can cause serious harm to your mental health. In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte, who was loved by the Tinder swindler. The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissists in your life.

Each week, you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. And then I think it also takes the pressure of people. Jay, I'm sure you get messages like this, but people often say that,

you know, yeah, I want to find my purpose, but I don't know where to start. You know, what is my purpose? And they see people online and think, oh man, they've got their purpose, I dance. You know, have you heard of the Japanese concepts of Iki guy? Yes, it's beautiful. Yeah, it really is beautiful. And I remember in my second book, The Stress Solution, I wrote about this idea that Iki guys these four things, you know, something, you know, we should be looking to try and find something that we're good at, that we enjoy doing, that the world needs, and that also makes money.

And I thought, what a beautiful concept. I want some Iki guy in my life. And I remember, Jay, I was giving a talk in London. I remember it so well, because at the end of the talk, we were doing Q&A, and a young lady at the back put her hand up, and she said, Dr. Chashy, I'm an 18-year-old Japanese student living in London, and I grew up with this concept of Iki guy. And frankly, I found it demotivating, and it really put me off. It seemed like a two lofty bar for me to meet. And that really hit me, Jay. I thought, yeah, that's interesting. These nice ideas for some people, they're

very off-putting. I think that's what alignment and values can be really helpful, because if you're struggling to find your meaning and purpose, right, I would say focus on your values. So let's say you hate your job. Let's say you work in a call sensor, you don't like it, but that pays you money and it helps you feed your family and put a roof over your heads and you hear the stuff about meaning and purpose. I say, okay, focus on values. If one of your values is kindness, let's say,

then if you get up in the morning and you're kind to your partner, you get a coffee on the way to work and you're kind to the barista, you get on the bus and you're kind to the bus driver, and whilst you're at work, you're kind to your work colleagues, then you're living a life of meaning. That is a meaningful life. You may not love your job at the moment, but the more you act in alignment, that meaning, that purpose

is going to come as a byproduct. So, like, that's where I think meaning and purpose kind of fits into this core happiness idea. I mean, did that make sense? Do you know, do you have any thoughts on that? Do you agree? I'm really welcome challenging this stool because I kind of think it holds true in every situation, but I'd love to know your view. Yeah, my honest take is I think that a lot of these discussions can be explained just through different terms and different language used by different people

for words that appeal in different ways. So there are certain words that when you unpack them, I can see that we're trying to say the same thing. But you may use certain words that I don't use. And this is exactly what you were saying before that if I don't take the time to listen, to understand and to take a moment of stillness to say, well, let me understand what Rungans really trying to say, even though we use different words, we may actually find that we're trying to say the same thing. Whereas if I simply look at the words, I may say, I disagree with you completely. I think you're wrong and I have another opinion. And so I think we have to be so careful with language because words mean so so many different things to so many different people. And it's why I always say to people that we need more faces and voices in the world of health and wellness or in any field for that matter.

Because everyone needs to hear from a diverse set of voices and faces, everyone is not going to connect to my language and that's okay. And everyone is not going to connect to your language and that's okay because there have been times where I've heard a piece of wisdom one time, twice, three times, four times. I hear it the ninth time from some random person, but the way they said it, the penny dropped and it hit me like it just hit me. And I was like, but I've been hearing that since I was a kid, but hearing it from that person at that time and that voice in that moment, that had an impact on me. And so I've become of the belief that I love the word alignment. I think it's fantastic.

And I would say that a line, an aligned life is a purposeful life. I agree. And that you are spot on when you say that if we can start living and practicing just one of our values that that will grow into a purpose for life. And so, so we're in alignment. We're in alignment and I'm very content with the language that you use is different to me, but that we are of the same ethos and spirit in what we're trying to share. But of course, the language will be different because we're different people, right? We've had different experiences. You've gone off to be a monk. That's because we're different people, right? We've had different experiences.

You've gone off to be a monk. That's something that in my head, I think, well, wouldn't that be incredible to go and do that? Although I can't see that happening anytime soon, especially being married and having two young kids who need me, but you will be informed by your life experience. I've been a medical doctor for nearly 21 years now, seeing tens of thousands of patients. My view to this topic of happiness is informed by the tens of thousands of patients I've seen and their struggles. So we're going to say it differently.

Pulling together alignment and what you asked me right at the start, which is what are the why is it we struggle so much with happiness and this idea of happiness? Another exercise that I think is really useful for people that also helps them be more aligned. It's a two-part exercise, right? I love it. And I don't know if you want to try it on yourself, actually. Yeah, sure. You want to try it. Okay. So the first part of the exercise is right down, or you can just tell me three things that if you did them each week would give you a deep sense of happiness. Okay, yeah, so I'm not going to say stuff I already do, so just to clarify for everyone, because I already meditate and exercise, I'm not going to include those,

because they would be, they are huge ones for my happiness. I'd say one of the biggest things is doing something fun and playful with my wife. So whether that's going to an escape room or whether that's going to an assault course or like some sort of like fun outdoor activity with my wife brings me a lot of happiness. So that's one of them. Okay. I'd say another one is spending time outdoors in nature in the sun. I'm going on a hike on Saturday, but that is something that I know if I did more of, I'd be, I doubt increase my happiness.

And the third one would be spending even more time reading. I love reading and making notes and learning, and I do plenty of it, but I know I could always do more. So those would be my three. Okay, so there's three things there. Okay, now the second part of the exercise is called White Your Happy Ending. So fast forward to the end of your life. Imagine you're on your deathbeds.

Looking back on your life, what are three things you will want to have done? So then it comes to, I would say, serving as many people as possible through the work that I do right now, that's number one. The second one would be to have felt that I was able to purify my heart and my mind of ego, of envy, of jealousy, of any impurities that lie in my mind and heart. That would be my second one. And my third one would be that I was able to express compassion towards all the pain I saw and not create more pain. I mean, that's lovely. So wonderful to hear. Now, the next part is you go back now to your first three answers. And the idea for people is, okay, if you do those three things that you've stated initially

weekly, will that get you to the happy ending that you have already said that you want? And I've done it with so many people and they find it really useful because, you know, for example, you know, you have already said that you want. And I've done it with so many people and they find it really useful because, you know, for example, you know, you've already mentioned you meditate and exercise, you wanna do something fun and playful with your wife, spend time outdoors and nature and reading.

Now if you do those things, let's say those five things every week, does that get you to that happy ending where you've served others, where you've purified your mind of ego and you've managed to practice compassion? Do you see those things as aligned? Yeah, definitely. I mean, especially, and now, and that's why it's useful doing the activity with sometimes things that I already do.

Yes, I think that a lot of those elements of personal time for meditation and practice, a lot of the work around the reading and study that I do, which is really powerful for cleansing the impurities within the heart. And even that play is so integral because that playfulness is what keeps it fun and exciting. And so, absolutely yes, there are lots of links in between. Many people when they do that exercise find that they're not aligned at all. Like at the end of the life they say,

yeah, I want to have spent time with my friends and family. I want to have engaged in passions that mean the world to me. They say all kinds of things. And then you look at the three happiness habits and they don't match up at all. It's a fantastic exercise. That is a brilliant exercise. And all it is, it's not about making people feel bad. It's about bringing awareness to their intention. Like if you say you value your friends and family, yet you're too busy

working, let's say, to find time for them. Okay, that's okay, but you need to start making a small shift there because you ain't gonna get to that happy ending otherwise. And so, you know what I'm about, Jay, it's always about how can I simplify a message, simplify an exercise that people can actually do, reiterate, and hopefully result in them living, I guess, a more intentional and a happier life. Rungard, the reason why I love that activity and exercise,

like it's brilliant, by the way, it's absolutely fantastic. I think everyone who's listening and watching right now not only should go and get the book because the book is full of lots more activities and exercises like this one, but do this one with a friend this weekend because what you've explained so beautifully there

is the difference between circumstantial and existential happiness. And so there are a lot of things we do every day because circumstantially, situationally, they make us feel better. But the existential core happiness, which as you describe as alignment, contentment and control, that can only be measured when you look at the gravity of a moment like death. And when you're doing that in this activity, that's what you're putting it under a microscope

and going, well, how is this affecting your existence as opposed to your circumstance, right? And that in and of itself is a really fascinating way of thinking. And I know that I don't do that activity, but I think about those questions very often. And for me for so long, I always ask myself that, I'll sit there and I'll go, how is this going to make me feel when I'm dying, will I regret doing this or not doing this? And everything that I'm doing on a daily basis and the commitments I make and the priorities I make are all dedicated to that purpose that I've committed to because

I know that that's what brings me joy. And there are a lot of sacrifices with that and there are a lot of things that you forego for that. But I realized that health was so integral to your purpose, no matter what it is, that that's something you can't sacrifice in the pursuit of any alignment or contentment you chase, because if you're not healthy, then all of it falls apart. So, I really love that activity and I'm so grateful you put that in many others in the book. Yeah, thanks.

And, you know, it's something that I use myself, you know, I'm keen to, I don't want people to feel that I haven't got it yet. I'm not there yet. You know, I'm keen to, I don't want people to feel that I haven't got it yet. I'm not there yet, you know, I'm not aligned. That's okay, right? That is absolutely okay. I would guess by anyone who's listening to your podcast, Jay, I guess naturally would feel drawn to this sort of content. Anyway, they're wanting to live a more intentional, a more purposeful life, right? So they're already that way in clients and it's not this thing. Like I said, it's not this destination that you get to. It's a constant process of tweaking and then society life will pull you away. You know, I definitely have times where I work too hard and I'm not as

present as I might want to be, right? You know, just because I know what I should be doing, it doesn't mean I'm not human and I'm not susceptible to the same mistakes that many of us make. Jay, I've never felt this calm and good and at peace with myself and my life. Like, when I last spoke to you a few years ago in LA,

you know, about the stress solution book, I was a different person, like I really was. It was a different version of me. I'm just a lot more content these days. I've done a lot of work to rid myself of ego and the need for external validation. I've also really let go of this idea that I need to be right. I think for much of my life I define myself, are you right? Are you winning? And letting go of that has just made me happier. Like I'm no longer attached to being right.

I'm attached to learning. I wouldn't even call it attached. I'm committed to learning. Right? Every day, any friction that comes in my life, anyone that sends me a rude email, it's all an opportunity for me to go in, but I go, what can I learn here? What can I learn about myself? How can I be compassionate about that other person? And it keeps life fun and interesting, right? It really doesn't. Yes, I feel calmer and content, but all kinds of little ns and things that, you know, I used to get that they're just sort of going because there's less emotional tension in my body.

I love that, Rungan. And by the way, on a personal level, that's just really beautiful to hear. I mean, you know, I think hearing that that's the journey you've been on in the last few years, and that's what I've brought this book about, is really beautiful. And I want everyone to know, you know, we just scratched the surface today but Rungan goes on to talk about a ton of great habits in this book, eliminating change, treating yourself with respect,

making time stands still, seeking out friction, talking to strangers, treat your phone like a person, having maskless conversations, which I love the sound of that one. Go on holiday every day, give yourself away. These are beautiful, beautiful breakdowns in each and every chapter with exercises, with things to reflect on and think about. And Rungan, I want to congratulate you on writing this beautiful book, Happy Mind, Happy Life, 10 simple ways to feel great every day. I want to ask you your final five, which are our rapid fire, fast five, around. So these questions have to be answered in one word to

one sentence maximum. Let's go. Are you ready? I'm ready. Feeling, trying to maintain that level of calm and contentment whilst I get ready. All right, great, all right, here we go. So here you're final five question number one. What's the best happiness Advice you've ever received heard or given? Spent time with friends and family. Second question. What is the worst piece of happiness advice you've ever received heard or given? Do what makes you feel good in the moment? Fascinating. Alright question number three.

What is something that you used to value, that you don't value anymore? An attachment to being right. Question number four, what is the kindest thing someone has done for you recently? Just my daughter coming back from school, giving me a big hug, big smile, saying, I love you daddy.

I don't think anything makes you feel as good as that. And that was super kind. I love that. I love that. All right. Question number five, if you could create one habit that everyone had to do every single day in the world, what would that habit be? No question, a daily practice of solitude. Beautiful. Everyone that is Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, the book is called Happy Mind, Happy Life. It is out now when you hear this podcast. Make sure you go and grab your copy.

Rangan, it has been a joy talking to you. I look forward to being in person with you again. I congratulate you on all the self work you've done internally. It sounds like, but also the amazing work you're putting out there in the world. And I appreciate you man I'm so glad that we finally got to do this and get together again So thank you for your time and thank you for your energy if you're watching or listening make sure you tag me and

Rungan on Instagram on Twitter on Facebook any platform you're using we love to see what you're learning what you're taking away There were so many great pieces of wisdom, nuggets of advice and insight today, and I want to make sure that we see those so we know what you're taking away. Thank you so much for listening to On Purpose. I'll see you again next time. Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Jermis Beg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect

of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg. Listen now on the iHotRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down an honorary to Kit-Nap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, haven't comment. They're all real women who were left out of your history books.

You can hear these stories and more on the Womana Cup podcast. Check it out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen. What if you could tell the whole truth about your life, including all those tender and visible things we don't usually talk about? I'm Megan Devine. Host of the podcast, it's okay that you're not okay. Look, everyone's at least a little bit not okay these days, and all those things we don't usually talk about, maybe we should. This season, I'm joined by Stellar Gas like Abromate, Rachel Cargol, and so many more. It's okay that you're not okay. New episodes each and every Monday, available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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