On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Dwyane Wade ON: Letting Go of Validation to Become Your Best Self

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon.Jay Shetty talks to NBA legend Dwyane Wade about his journey on and off the court. From staying true to his spiritual belief through every game and creating meaningful relationships with his family and friends to helping and building a community out of passion and goodwill and looking past the present to be able to do more. As a three-time NBA Champion, Olympic Gold medalist, and thirteen-time NBA All-Star, Dwyane Wade has experienced a whirlwind career. Wade officially retired from the NBA after sixteen years following his 2018-19 season. His #OneLastDance farewell tour included jersey exchanges, gifts, and tributes. Wade partnered with Bleacher Report on a D. Wade World Tour apparel series to celebrate the final season of his career and pay tribute to his influence on and off the court. He received the NBA’s 2012-2013 Community Assist Award in recognition of his efforts in the community and his philanthropic work.  Try our tea & become a member of our tea club today! https://samatea.com/onpurpose. Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/What to Listen For:00:00 Introduction02:57 The emotional journey of putting a picture book together04:19 The beauty of life is always the unknown05:42 In every game, don’t forget to be thankful10:21 Having the right support to lift you in your journey12:10 The value of association14:52 A coach that helps you achieve success17:00 When you think differently and look at things differently19:14 Being open gives you experiences you haven’t imagine21:35 When we’re not enjoying the journey24:54 What matters is YOU29:54 Maintaining great relationships despite a difficult childhood31:56 Creating moments with people and living through the memories36:02 From a powerless youth to a man with a voice38:02 Support the people who are doing the work on the ground40:19 Develop yourself through professionals42:16 The legend that is Kobe Bryant44:20 Why should you be happy every morning?Episode ResourcesDwyane Wade | TwitterDwyane Wade | InstagramDwyane Wade | FacebookDwyane Wade | YouTubeDwyane Wade | WebsiteDwyane, a photo memoirSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. What if you could tell the whole truth about your life, including all those tender and visible things we don't usually talk about?

I'm Megan Devine. Host of the podcast, it's okay that you're not okay. Look everyone's at least a little bit not okay these days, and all those things we don't usually talk about, maybe we should. This season, I'm joined by Stellar Gas like Abbermote, Rachel Cargol, and so many more. It's okay that you're not okay. New episodes each and every Monday, available on the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you listen to podcasts. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.

I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast take good care. I think I understand that my purpose is is bigger and whatever it is whatever is on my heart whatever my experiences are I'm going to speak out on them to be in a position where you have resources you know where you have connections where you have, where you have connections, where you have finances, where you have all these things, and then you can get a little bit more into it and not just be a voice.

Now you can be an actor, participate in the change. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love, is out. And I cannot wait to share with you.

I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eightrulesoflove.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating,

broken up or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour. Love rules. Go to jsheddytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. Now you know that I'm always seeking out new stories, ideas, people who have an incredible purpose in their life, have had immense success, but are sharing their story in a really beautiful, powerful way.

And today's guest is going to blow your mind. I'm speaking about the one and only Dwayne Wade, of course, known for being an American professional basketball player, one of the best players of his era who won three NBA championships as a member of the Miami Heat. He was a 13 time NBA All-Star and eight time member of the All-NBA team and a three time member of the All-Defensive team. And he recently released a photographic memoir with more than 100 photos from his life on and off the quote. And this book, I was just saying to Dwayne Dwayne, welcome to the show, is a work of art. Like it's so beautiful. I mean, the pictures, the choices, the words in between, it is a work of art.

And I want to congratulate you Dwayne on this incredible achievement. And welcome to on purpose. Jay, thank you for the introduction, man. That was listening. Are you open for the Hall of Fame? Yeah, 2023 possibly. That was, that was amazing. Yeah, that would be an honor. That would be an honor. That would be my honor. So you, you just let me know where I need to be. I will be there. All is good. Well, you know, as we talked about, you know, this is my art. This is my photographer, Bob Matullis, art. This is Justin Tinsley, who was a co-writer on this. This is his art as well. And so to be able to present a book that looks like art,

it shows you how much care and how much work went into this project and this, you know, some that's so personal for me. So thank you for saying that. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I can't wait for everyone who's listening and watching. I highly recommend you go and grab a copy, whether you're a basketball fan or not. There is so much on and off the court in this book that you're gonna benefit so much from it. So Dwayne, let's dive right in. I wanna start by asking you, when you're compiling a book like this,

when you're looking at pictures, old and new, what is it doing for you emotionally? Like, tell me about not the physical journey of compiling, but the emotional journey of putting a book together like this. For me, like going through these photos, there's some very personal photos inside this book. This is me trying to show Jay the human side of me. As someone who's a public figure,

sometimes the human side of you get lost. And so what I wanted to capture is that part of me. And so I'm able to go into these photos and some of them, you know, it showcased my childhood, you know, whether showing up the complex that I grew up in on 59th and in Prairie, or whether showing my kids or whatever it is, I'm able to go right back into that moment. And I'm able to kind of relive some of those things. And, you know, I loved it. I loved going back and remembering a little doing and the promises that he made and the dreams that he had.

I love going back and revisiting it. When you were capturing all these memories since the beginning of your career, did you ever have any idea that it was gonna go this well and be this great? And, or like, what was the process? Because I always feel like you know now everyone's lives are documented because of social media and video

and content has become so easy and cheap and free but you know when you started documenting it's like no one knew where this was going to go. Where did you feel it was going to go? I had no clue and that's the that's the beauty of life as well is is the unknown and so only thing I knew was be a good person work hard treat others the way that you want to be treated you want others to treat you know your loved ones work hard work hard you know I just knew these small these small things and like that I carried with me and I tried to put that in everything I did. And, you know, I think Will Smith said it and I'm gonna mess it up. But he said, you work hard every day and you get up every day and you just

work hard and you mess around and you end up having a good life, you know, because just every day you're choosing to work hard. And so I worked hard every day and I messed around and out of good life, you know, because just every day you're choosing to work hard. And so, I worked hard every day and I messed around and had a good life in a good career. Yeah, a great career, man, a great career. Now, you mentioned in the book, I love this and I love even how you've structured the book. So for anyone who hasn't got the book yet, the book is structured in the same way a game is structured. So you've got pre-game, first quarter, second quarter, half time, third and fourth and post-game,

which I love. I love that sort of thought process and getting into your mindset and your life in that way. One of the most beautiful things you mention is that in the book that every tip-off, you always close your eyes, bow your head, and you talk to God. And when I, you know, when I read that, I was thinking, wow, that is so special to be doing that in a tip off, which is like, you know, there's stress, there's pressure, there's the fans, there's,

you know, everything's like quite heightened at that point, but you're able to close your eyes, bow your head and talk to God. I wanted to ask you, what do you say? Why has that been an important routine for you? Yeah, Jay, it goes back to my childhood. I'm not, I look at myself as spiritual. I don't look at myself as Christian or any other terms. I look at myself as a spiritual person. I felt I've always had a person relationship

with the version of who I feel my God is. It's a very young age. And I've always communicated very well with him. And he's a him to me, could be a her to someone else. And so I've never lost sight of that. And for me, growing up as a young kid who got a lot of things put in his path to try to stop him from getting to where I am now.

And no one throughout that process, my faith was so strong. You know, my way number three probably because of the father to son of Holy Spirit. And at that moment, before a game, I've done it since I've been since I started playing basketball is I always take a moment and just be thankful. I'm thankful for the places that I'm allowed to go. I'm thankful for the places that my God has taken me. I remember being little Duane crying,

going a bit with no food in my stomach, you crying, you know, asking God to allow me to be the one to help get my family out of, you know, poverty. And to be in that situation, to be on an NBA court, and to look around before every game, and see 20,000 fans, see a little kid that's somewhere with your jersey on, just trying to get a glimpse of the moment. Like to understand that you're glimpse of the moment like to understand

That you're one of the best players in this game. I'm thankful and so before every tip off I just wanted to express how thankful I was To my god. Yeah, that's beautiful man. I love that as a centering and guiding principle for each and every one of us that even in that moment You're able to have that stillness internally to set that intention. And you know, whatever it means to you, I appreciate that. That it's you making sense of what that word, what that feeling means to you. It's not about any other external definition, but about your own. I wonder, did you ever talk to your God after the game or during the game? to your god after the game or during the game. We don't need to know that.

That's not the game. Do I have to retire game all the time, man, all the time. Do you ever remember a specific game or a specific moment where your conversation with God was interesting or that we could dive into that moment? I mean, let's pick Annie. Let's pick Luz's pick losing game too at the NBA finals in 2011 up I think 15 points you know in the fourth quarter let's take that you

like all right what's up you know I mean like you have conversations all the time but you know but ultimately, for me, it's just always been about, look where I am. Like, and I think sometimes going through the process, like you lose yourself a little bit. You lose sight of important principles, important things. And I'm one of those people who forget, you know, at moments. And then so when I would try to always bring myself back to the moment, even if we lost the finals,

even if someone hit a game winner, even if I played terrible, you know, you try not to question, you try not to ask why it's a part of the journey. And so I tried as much as possible to stay off guy, get off his case. I love them. I love that. One of the things you talk a lot about in the book that comes through with the images and pictures is, you know, the foundation you had through coaching and the people you had in your life. And you say something beautiful, you say as a professional athlete, you have to trust a lot of people with your body. And I thought that this was fascinating because, you know, as an athlete, of course, you have trainers, you have coaches. And even in our lives, we trust people with parts of ourselves,

whether it's our mind, our body, our life, our friendship. How did you know in the beginning or how did you develop an approach to finding out who you could trust with your body and your career versus those you couldn't trust. Was there a way that you sensed or started to learn and know how to make those choices and decisions? Yeah, I think it's good. If you don't have someone in your life that can help put you with certain people, people, and like a big mentor throughout your life or a big, or a father figure who has certain relationships and all these things, and a lot of it

is gonna be on your cut filly. And so for me, I've been one of the luckiest human beings in my eyesight for the sense of having people put in his life that have really made huge impacts who have really been there for the good and not for the bad And it just really helped me you know, and and I'm not the I have not always been the most confident man in the world And to have all these individuals who have been there to be able to give me that nerd to be able to push me back up For me to have the common sense to allow them to do it is the reason that me back up for me to have the common sense to allow them to do it. It's the reason that you and I right now are on the number one

help podcast in the world because of it, right? So I'm very appreciative of everybody alone as journey that really nudged me and lift me up. Yeah, no, I love that. And I think that's so important. I think what I love is then the book you talk so much about the coaches, the mentors, the people who nod you along, the players that you work alongside. There's this brilliant picture of, I believe it's with you and LeBron James. And you're just saying that it was from a workout where you both just went full out on each other and just encouraged each other to just, you know, keep pushing on and keep going

on. Can you walk us through the hardest workout or the hardest pre-game that you ever did mentally or physically? Could you just walk us through what it's really like? Because I always feel as someone like, I'm not an athlete, I don't really know how hard that is physically. Could you walk us through that? I guess the easiest way to say this we all have, we all reach a point in whatever we're doing, when we reach that boiling point, when we feel we have nothing else to give. And as an athlete, you reach that point constantly.

And the hardest part is, is pushing yourself and allowing others to push you to give more than you know that you have to give. And it's so easy to quit on yourself. It's so easy to say I have nothing left. But when you go past that level and you go to it, you tap into another place that you didn't think you had. You didn't know you had another 15 reps. You thought you was maxed out at 10 and you push yourself to there. Now you've shown yourself that you have another level and that another level helps you in those moments. That another level helps you in a fourth quarter when everyone's tired because you know you've went to another level.

And so just man the whole training aspect of it, LeBron and I being two great players and being two great friends, pushed at each other. That photo was right before a game, one of the 2013 NBA finals. And we knew that it was gonna be on Nustle Lee this team. And we knew we were about to be in a dog fight because we was playing a San Antonio Spurs and they were gonna test us physically

and mentally and emotionally and all the fields. And so that was getting ourselves still and prepared for what the series was about to hand us. Yeah, that's amazing. I love hearing that because you're so right. We always quit on ourselves. I mean, I remember the closest thing I can compare is just when I lived as a monk, you know, you'd always think that you'd meditated enough or you'd pushed yourself and our teachers would push us a little more, a little more, a little more and then you get today

where you meditated for like eight hours and you're like, oh wow, like I didn't think I could do eight minutes if I was left to do it on my own. And you start to realize the value of association, the value of those minds around you that help you see more than yourself. And that really leads to, you know, you said about Tom Kreen, you said, he believed that I could be something more than just a basketball player.

And when I hear that, I'm like, wow, like when people around us see us becoming more than we see for ourselves, what were some of the lessons you believe that he taught you off the court? What were some of those? And why was it so important for you to see yourself as more than a basketball player? I'm Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere, and their toxic behavior in words can cause serious harm to your mental health. In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte, who was loved by the Tinder Swindler. The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did.

And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissist in your life. Each week, you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I am Mi'amla, and on my podcast the R-Spot, we're having inspirational educational and sometimes difficult and challenging conversations about relationships. They may not have the capacity to give you what you need and insisting means that you are abusing yourself now. You human. That means that you're crazy as hell, just like the rest of us. Ha ha ha. When a relationship breaks down,

I take copious notes, and I wanna share them with you. Anybody with two eyes and a brain knows that too much Alfredo sauce is just no good for you. But if you're gonna eat it, they're not going to stop you. Yeah. So he's going to continue to give you the Alfredo sauce and put it even on your grits if you don't stop him.

Listen to the art spot on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Yvonne Gloria. I'm Maite Gomez-Rajon. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast, Hungry for History! On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture.

We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode, culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Corner flower. Both. Oh, you can't decide. I can't decide. I love both. You know, I'm you to try at home. Corner flower. Both. Oh, you can't decide. I can't decide. I love both.

You know, I'm a flower tortilla flower. Your team flower? I'm team flower. I need a shirt. Team flower, team core. Join us as we explore surprising and lesser known corners of Latinx culinary history and traditions. I mean, these are these legends, right?

Apparently, this guy Juan Mendes, he was making these tacos wrapped in these huge tortilla to keep it warm, and he was transporting them in a burro, hence the name the burritos. Listen to Hungary for history with Ivalangoria and Maitre Gomez Rejón as part of the Michael Tura podcast network available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I don't know why it was. I just know it just always has been and it always has mattered for me. And I don't know the reason, Jay. But when Tom Kreen came in my house and this is something that he probably did, you know, this was his first year of being a head coach, but this is something he probably seen and had done before.

But when he came in my house and he presented me with a cap and gown, at that moment, no one ever talked to me as an inner city kid about graduating college. I just started thinking about going to college. It was not like, no, it's not a lot of people in my family who have graduated college. This is not a thing.

This is not something that you just do. So when he presented that to me, at that moment I started looking at him differently. It wasn't just about what I can do for him on a basketball floor. He was talking about my future. He was talking about me actually building something bigger than just basketball player. And that continued, you know, being in college and having a son at the age of 19 years old, he became a huge figure in my life as a father, as an example, and just a shoulder to cry on a lean one. And so role models, mentors, obviously father figures, and these people are so important, alone this journey of life for so many little kids. And I know so many little kids like Dewey and Wade that's growing up and broken homes and, you know, in private, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, the visuals of my life is the only reason once again that I'm able to sit up here and even have a voice or a microphone to even talk about it.

Yeah, when you look at that time and you've referenced in this interview, and of course in the book, like growing up in poverty, growing up with very little opportunities or resources, not having those options, what was the first time you felt that there could be more that you could do something with your life?

What was it? Who was it? That right in that very moment in that beginning, when you were in that pain and in that struggle that made that feel possible? You know what, Jay, I've always felt it. I didn't know what it was, but I've always, I just never felt like I've,

I don't wanna say that I fit in. what it was, but I've always, I just never felt like I've, I don't wanna say that I fit in. I just always felt that I thought differently and I looked at things differently. That's it, you know, like even the game of basketball, how as a young kid, how I was able to read the game and knew that the ball is either going inside or was going along the perimeter. Okay, that's it, the game is either going inside or is going along the perimeter.

Okay, that's it. The game is easy. Like, I just, you know, it's just a part of God's, you know, in my parents, you know, to get together to be able to create this, right? And so, I always had that looking around like, this is not it. This will not be it for me. Like even now, I'm, I love life and my family

and everything we're accomplishing, I still look around and I'm like, this is for now, this is not it. It's more, it's more living to do, it's more life. And I just didn't know how to get it done then. I just know how to get it done now because I've been through it all. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, what you just said is,

it's that perfect balance between being present now in what there is, but recognizing there's more and being open to that, right? It's like, when I hear you speak and when I'm looking at your book, there's deep presence. Like when you go back to these memories in the book, like you're fully absorbed and immersed,

like we're there with you. You do that beautifully, but at the same time, you have this expansive vision that there's more, there's more to do, more to achieve, more to grow, more to learn. And I feel like that balance is really rare. You don't, you know, people are either in the future or they're in the present, but being able to go between the two is a really powerful skill. And knowing that,

you know, you've been able to spot those patterns and see that from the beginning. Yeah. What do you think was one of the best decisions you ever made in your personal life or professional life that made a huge impact to decision in your overall life. Well, I think going back to the last point and this point I wanted to make was the ability to be able to appreciate the past, enjoy and really focus and live in the now and not be satisfied with that and be able to visualize and look towards the future. And having all three of those, my mind is always moving and I'm going from, I'm going back here and I'll come in here and then I'm going there, right?

And to be, I thank God and I thank everybody for the ability to have openness, like to be open. If you're open in this world, you will have experiences that you never could have imagined. But if you close-minded, you're gonna live in a box. And I just never wanted to live in a box. And so my decision was to be open. To my first initial reaction is out of fear and is out of something that I've never experienced before

or I may not have a lot of knowledge on so I'm immediately going to be fearful and say no. I don't want to do it because it's uncomfortable. Who wants to look stupid? Who wants to be wrong? But somewhere, somehow alone this journey, someone gave me a smack me on the head and said here, take this open, open this and go off and live life I love that I love that man and and I hope everyone who's listening and watching right now

Feels that they're getting that openness thrown at them through Dwayne as well of like, you know Just just being more open to it and one of the things though that Another I was you know what, I love this juxtaposition between images and words. Like to me, all the art in my house as well, it's images and words. Like I feel like a lot of people just like to look at pictures and images. A lot of people obviously fascinated by words and lyrics. To me, when I see this book, I love it because it's, it's, it's both together. And there's this beautiful statement that you made that patience is always the hardest virtue to learn.

We always hear patience is a virtue. But you go and say patience is always the hardest virtue to learn and I was like, what made you realize that? Like where was patience hard to learn in your life? In every aspect, like sitting in traffic is hard to have patience. You know what I mean? I live in LA life. In every aspect, like sitting in traffic, it's hard to have patients. You know what I mean, I live in LA now. It is hard to have patients in traffic, right? Like that's, but I think we, especially now in 2021, we are a world that we want to get there. We want to, we want to, we want everything like this. When we get in our car, we want to get it our destination right away.

We don't, we don't enjoy the journey. We, we're not enjoying the journey no more. And it's like even like with our phones, you know, we could be in a car and it's our driving. Your head is down the entire time. And you've missed so much about the world, you know what I mean? That we're just not looking up anymore. And so to me, having patients and even someone I get in the car, I'm like, it's an hour drive. Cool. Let me enjoy this. I will. Let me get my music right. Let me get my podcast right. Let me put my top down and see the, see the mountains and see the sun or whatever it is, right? We want to get to things right away. And we don't want to have patience and let things happen the way that they're supposed to happen. What was the hardest thing in your life to be patient about like with your achievement in basketball? Like what would the

thing you were most impatient about? If there was something you were really impatient about and that you had to realize you had to slow down and work towards what was that achievement in basketball? I wanted it right away. Like, when I was in school, I wanted to be known. I wanted to have scholarship offers. I wanted, I wanted praise through man. Like, I wanted that. I needed it.

I felt. And that was something that now that my, it didn't happen for me that way. My journey was a little slower. And now I look at my journey and I'm like, man, that journey built character. And without that journey, I don't have this, this, you know, I'm not able to look at it from this perspective.

And this perspective makes me appreciate, you know, everything. And so I have this same conversation, Jay, with my son, who's going through his own journey. And he wants it now. He wants to be superstar now. He wants to, you know, he wants everybody to like the way he played now. And it's like, yo, have patience. Appreciate the journey because this is creating a story. You're creating your own legacy, right?

You have a, we're all born with a blank canvas. And we're able to go out and and find a paint. And we're able to paint our own paint your own story. Don't let no one else paint on your canvas. It's yours. It's blank painted the way that you see fit. And so, you know, that's just that's just how I approach it. I don't know if that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. I mean, I was about to say that is such beautiful advice for a young man. Congratulations to him, by the way, on the recent news. But like, for, you know, to hear that from your father, I think is so powerful.

And I'm sure that if there's any mothers or fathers listening right now or anyone listening right now, hearing that from you is massively empowering, right? Because I feel you're spot on. We're living in that culture, driving social media, technology, NFTs. I mean, anything, everyone just wants to know crypto, like whatever it media, technology, NFTs, I mean, anything. Everyone just wants to now crypto, like whatever it is, the six pack abs, the incredible

body, whatever that means, like, you know, we all want it right now. How is your relationship, Dwayne, do you think how did your relationship with praise and fame and validation change over time? I'm always intrigued as to, you know, how did your relationship evolve with fans, with criticism, with good games, bad games? Like how is your relationship with praise and validation evolved or changed over time?

I feel that the more my life has gotten to a place where it feels more complete in the sense that my mom's in my life, she's healthy. We have a great relationship. My dad's in my life, he's healthy, we have a great relationship. I have a great relationship with my wife. I have great relationships with my kids

and I'm building better relationship with my kids as well. And so the closer I've got to the things that I've always wanted and needed, And so the closer I've got to the things that I've always wanted and needed, I've gotten better about what people say about me or the perception of who I suppose to be. But when I was younger, I needed that. Like I said, I wanted praise through man. I needed attention.

I wanted to be famous. I wanted to have my jersey's been a number one selling jersey like the insecure little boy and me needed that from others, you know what I mean? And then I got to the point as things started becoming better in love and in family and in friends and I started feeling more whole. I stopped needing that. I stopped caring about it. And so I understand the journey of a young kid of my like my son who's 19 who can read 33 comments on his photo and feels like the world is coming down on him. I understand the journey of a young kid, like my son, who's 19 who can read 33 comments on his photo and feels like the world is coming down on him. I understand it.

But at the same time, I'm 39 and I'm able to look back and say, that's not gonna matter. You know what matters is what is, what you put into what it is that your dreams is and what you wanna do. Yeah, well said man really really beautifully said I You know, I I often feel the same way that When you know that the people and it's what we started with when I was sharing with you the intention of the beginning

It's that you realize that ultimately the only opinions that matter are the people that deeply know you Like most people don't know you deeply and now you're giving us an opportunity to get to know you. Like most people don't know you deeply. And now you're giving us an opportunity to get to know you deeply through your, through this beautiful book and memoir. But it's the people that know you truly and deeply at the heart. They're the ones that matter. And you can't take someone who's, you know,

behind a keyboard seriously, because you don't really know who they are and they don't know who you are. But we do outsource our validation and our self assurance and our self esteem to everyone else. And I love hearing that, you know, I wonder how does your son react? But be honest with you, how does he react to that?

Does he go, how does he hear that? Does he go, oh, dad, it's all right for you because you're so successful. Or how does he respond to that? I mean, treat. You know, he receives it. You know, the one thing I love about Zaire is he receives things and he decides how, you know, he wants to pursue things from there, but he receives the things I say, but at the same time, he also understands that,

you know, what that, you've never been Zaire way. You know what I mean? You've never really lived this lifestyle that I've lived. No one is really that we know in our family. No one has lived this zyere way life. You know, I know what it's like to be come from nothing with no expectations, but I don't know what it's like to come from something with expectations. And so I get it. And so I don't say these things to my son like,

hey, this is how it's supposed to be. And this is how it's going to be. This is just me communicating with him and past trying to pass down the knowledge that I know. But I also understand his journey. And I'm able to listen. I'm able to have empathy towards what he goes through. But at the same time, I know that ultimately, that's not ultimately

going to matter in a sense of, you know, where you're trying to get in your future, you know. And so I just don't want him to ever use things as excuses. And that's what I've always fought against. I could have used my mom as an excuse, my hug on the prison when I was nine years old. I could have used not getting the ACT score to go to college as an excuse. But if I allow those things to to be excuses, then I'm I'm allowing myself to be defeated. And it's like we already are behind an aball. Life is already hard enough. I cannot allow those things to happen if I want to be successful. So I'm just trying to show him that and understand it is going to take him in his own time to really understand it in that way. Not too long ago in the heart of the Amazon Rainforest this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life.

I saw it and I saw oh wow this is a very unusual situation. It was cacao, the tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen, or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun fight. I mean, you saw the stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate.

We're all lost. It was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind so they could search for more of this stuff. We're all lost, it was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind, so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle, and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building armed with machetes.

And we've heard all sorts of things that, you know, somebody got shot over this. Sometimes I think, oh, all these for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions while chocolate on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet we're constantly discovering new secrets. The depths of them, the variety of them, continues to be astonishing.

I can't wait to share ten incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am. I needed her to help me. Something was annoying at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a piece missing.

Why not restart? Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you'll get your podcasts. This is what it sounds like inside the box card.

I'm journalist and I'm Morton in my podcast City of the Rails. I plunged into the dark world of America's railroads searching for my daughter Ruby who ran off to hop train. I'm just like stuck on this train, not where I'm gonna end up and I jump. Following my daughter, I found a secret city of unforgettable characters living outside society, off the grid, and on the edge. I was in love with a lifestyle and the freedom this community. No one understands who we truly are. The Rails made me question everything I knew about motherhood, history, and the thing we call the American Dream. It's the last vestige of American freedom.

Everything about it is extreme. You're either going to die or you could have this incredible rebirth and really understand who you are. Come with me to find out what waits for us in the city of the rails. Listen to the city of the rails on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Or cityoftherails.com. I love that.

You and your wife obviously are trying to have such healthy relationships with your kids whether you get your podcast or cityoftherails.com. I love that. You and your wife, obviously, are trying to have such healthy relationships with your kids. As you just said there, when you go through this experience with your parents, but now you have good relationships with them, how did you reconstruct those relationships as time has gone on? You said, one of the happiest things is you have a good relationship with your mom.

She's healthy, father healthy. What was it that helped you rebuild those relationships in healthy ways based on the difficult childhood you'd had? Well growth, having kids, realizing your parents are not that crazy, but outside of that, getting to know them. I really, you know, when you're a kid, you really don't know your parents. You know these rules, setters.

You know, you know, people who take care of you and say no, or yes, you know, whatever. You don't know your parents. And so what I've been trying to do and what I'm, what I just got done doing yesterday this weekend, we just came from Utah is I'm getting to know my parents and I'm getting to know each one individually.

And I'm also getting to know them around each other. And they've been knowing each other since my dad was like 15, 16 years old. And so they know so much about each other. So what I'm doing is I'm learning them. And as I learned them, I have a better appreciation of Jolanda and Duane and not just my own dad.

I think that's such a beautiful advice for everyone. I think as you just said, there's a famous quote, I can't remember who it's from, but there's a beautiful statement that says, the day you realize your parents were right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong. That's the thing. You know, it's that kind of feeling. Like, and what you just said, like, that's exactly it.

And I'm not a father yet, but I often think about that. And you're so right that we never get to know our parents. That's such a deep and powerful statement because we expect that their job is to get to know us. And their job is to help us and their job is to make our lives good. But most our parents have never been asked, how are you? How are you doing?

Like, what do you care about? What's, you know, what's been happening in your life? So I really, I really appreciate that. I hope that after this podcast, a lot of people go off and make those calls, ask those questions. The holidays are coming up. Like, you know, this is a great time to start reconstructing a lot of those,

you know, wounded relationships or painful places. You know, you mentioned in the book Dwayne, you said, I try to tell everyone how much they mean to me while they're still here, because I know one day they won't be. And that is such a brilliant way to live. It was there someone that you recently did that with, or texted, or called, or had that moment with that, you really were trying to embody that. I do it all the time, Jay.

I just got off my book tour. And my chief of staff, Simone Caprice, 27 years old. And she handled the book to us so gracefully. You know, this was her first time handling this and she just handled it. She handled it so gracefully and I had to to acknowledge it, I had to let her know. And you know, I really, I really tried to embody that. My wife and I really tried to embody that. I think if you, if you ask anyone that's in a circle that's in our friend

and family group they will tell you we are we don't like to eat alone we don't like to celebrate alone you know we want to make sure that we all are experiencing life because it's we're all experiencing something in my wife are we're experiencing something that you know most of our family and friends haven't we're going places that most people haven't. And it's on us to make sure we show them. It's on us to make sure we move the curtains and move the buildings and move the trees out the way to make sure that our friends and family

who have not been the places that we're being, that they get a chance to see it. And so I'm all about creating moments, creating memories, because at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, when someone that you lose, that's so close to you, when they're gone, all you have is those memories that they left you. And those are the stories that you're going to tell. And so we all are about creating memories together and that's how we wrote.

Did you ever not live that way and regret that was there anyone that you wish you got to deal with that way? Or do you feel like you've been like that way and regret that? Was there anyone that you wish you got to deal with that way? Or do you feel like you've been like that the whole time? Have you always just felt that you've tried to live that way? Or was there someone that kind of like snuck through the cracks? Yeah, I wasn't always open-minded. You know, I didn't have a great relationship with my mom, my dad's mom, or my dad's father.

And it didn't, I didn't really affect me when I was younger because it was just, it was what it was and I really didn't care to have it. And then they both passed away within, you know, I think a year and a half of each other. And I remember crying. I remember driving in my car when I got the news and I remember just crying.

And I never felt any emotions towards my grandparents because I didn't grow up with a relationship with them. And at that moment I felt bad because I felt like you know what D you could have been the bigger person. You could have you never took time to understand to sit down with them and ask questions and understand why the relationship was the way it was anyway. You know better. And so I think after that I kind of woke up a little bit and I kind of started trying to put beef in certain things to the side. If you someone in my life that's gonna affect

my emotions in my mood, you're gonna make me cry. And so it became important to me around that time. Yeah, no, that's really special. Thank you for opening up and sharing that too, because I think often, you know, we always hear the side of like, yeah, remember people, but we always forget that there are people in our life

that we didn't think like that then. We didn't have that mindset then and, you know, we missed out on that. So that's always a beautiful thing to hear. One of the things that you've done a lot doing, which is really admirable, I do believe it is because it shows a sense of risk, a sense of confidence, a sense of integrity. We're all aware of the police brutality that's been happening in Black communities for far too long.

And for you speaking up about this topic, supporting conversations around it, trying to make change using your platform for that purpose has been an important part of your work. And you say that, you know, what's the point of having a platform if we're not using it for this? Can you walk me through what that experience is being like from going from a young black man growing up in a city like having that pain and pressure yourself to now being obviously a powerful influential individual. Tell me about how it feels different and what's changed if anything. You know what I was just talking about this the other day, and I hope this analogy makes sense to all your listeners.

Sometimes, and I'll talk to my son about this thing called imposter syndrome, right? Sometimes I feel like I'm an imposter. Like I feel like I'm that kid that snuck behind the tall kid and no one is called me. And it's like no one is seen, like no one is like saying, hey kid, get back here, you're going too far. And I feel like people

are just still letting me go, right? And I'm like, it's a reason that these opportunities that I have, it's a reason for them. It's not just because I'm talented as a basketball player. I've seen a lot of talented basketball players not have the microphone that even people will even listen. It doesn't matter about that. So I think I understand that my purpose is it's bigger and whatever it is, whatever is on my heart, whatever my experiences are, I'm going to speak out on them. That's the world we live in. It's called freedom of speech where I'm going to speak out on them and then at the same time to be in the position where you have resources.

You know, where you have connections, where you have finances, where you have all these things. And then you can get a little bit more into it and not just be a voice. Now you can be an actor, participate in the change. And so that's what I've tried to do in my Ways Family Foundation, Ways World Foundation before that. That's where Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul and I are trying to do an our Ways Family Foundation, Ways World Foundation before that. That's what Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul and I are trying to do in our social change fund. We're trying to make sure that we be active in the change that's happening in our communities. What have been some of the changes, Drink? Could you walk us through that? I know you're a very humble

individual, so you're not going to go off and talk about all the massive change you've made. I'd love to hear about some of the work that you're doing that you feel is really having an impact in the communities and the lives of young people in those communities. Because I think it's so fascinating that people to realize, like you said, it's not just about a voice, it's not just about social media,

it's about actual change in these cities. Could you walk us through some of that stuff? Yeah, we know what I'm going into all the way. We done this and we've done this. I think the best thing that I know that I can do and mellow and CP has the same mindset is, I have about nine jobs, Jay. I end up a father of a lot of kids and a little husband

and all these things. I understand where my strengths are and my weaknesses. So I have to say where my limitations are. But I also understand that I have a passion and we have a passion for our community. And so it's people that's out there on the ground that's actually doing the real work. And what I've tried to do, what I've tried to do

throughout my entire charitable efforts is support the people who are doing the work, the programs that are doing the work, the individuals that are on the ground, going to jail for this, boots on the ground in the community, those are the people we want to support. That's one of the reasons the social change fund was formed. That's one of the reasons why the ways where our foundation was formed. It wasn't for me to get any announcement. It was for us to be able to raise enough money to be able to pull out resources together to get back to the people in the community that's doing the actual work. Yeah, no, and I knew that I

just wanted to hear more because I genuinely just I genuinely admire that work so much and hearing you speak about it, you know, is really impactful for a lot of individuals because I think sometimes, you know, it's like what you're saying about being more than a basketball player. Like, and today, I'm not focusing on the basketball because I think I love seeing everything else that you've done by building this incredible empire and this incredible impact and the heart that you do it with. And I want to understand how your experience has been so far being a business person and having ownership of the UTJ as well.

Like that's a whole nother part of you as well. What's the biggest thing you've learned so far from that shift? Are there other certain things that you're using from the sport in the business or are you learning completely new skills? They say everything broke, don't fix it. And so, you know, and I talk about this in my book a lot too, right? I feel that, you know, the sport that I play at basketball

is so many lessons in there that are metaphors for life, that are life experiences. And so, if I can be successful in a sport that is very hard to be to crack. If I can be one of the players to get drafted out of 450, or I can be one of the greatest players of all time, then I know what it takes to be successful. I've already cracked that code, and so don't reinvent it. Just take the lessons that you've learned, alone this journey, and apply them to this life life and that's what I'll try to do and so for me

Jay if my jumper was off if I didn't know how to drove with I wanted to learn a move I will go out of I want to get stronger. I'm a garden higher a trainer I'm a garden higher somebody to help me right fix that or work on this So I'm gonna do the same thing in this life I'm gonna come out here and I'm gonna think, okay, what is my trainer? Therapist, trainer, vocal coach, trainer, all these different people are trainers to help me become the best version of me. Same way I would have done on the basketball floor. Now that's how I've decided to approach the pre-game of business and being doing. Yeah, no, I love that. What a great mindset. And I love the

analogy with the trainer that's such a such a brilliant way of thinkin' about it. Dwayne, I have to ask you this because you know, you have a whole section here that in the book that's dedicated to Kobe Bryant. We were I was fortunate enough to interview him on the podcast. You always said how much of a fan you were, how much you admired him. You had a at brother with him. What was the biggest thing that you feel you took away or learned from Kobe consciously or unconsciously that you felt impacted you deeply till this day? You know what? I think the basketball side of it is watching someone who was

of it is watching someone who was as a guy, gifted ability, like God bless Kobe Bryant with so much ability, but to be able to watch him work that ability. Yes. Like that right there, I've seen a lot of people who has been gifted with just talent, and they don't do anything with it from a standpoint of working their talents.

And so to watch him as an athlete, really get the best out of all his God-given ability. I mean, that's inspiring. But for me, watching Kobe Bryant retire was probably the most impactful part of the whole journey. That's for me, it hurt as having, he was a leader. Like, I retired after him and I'm like, okay, I'm a follow-coby like I'm see what he's doing it

And we all like to have those people to chase and so he was that person that we can look at and say you can't you can retire Definitely you can do this differently We want to ask her well, I think one of two years after retirement Like the things that he was a part of, the books that he was writing, the universe he was taking us in. I mean, the body armor of it all, it was amazing. And so what I learned from him is that it is another way to do it.

It is greatness at their basketball. And you do not have to wait on it. Yeah, absolutely. And I see that, I remember when I interviewed him, I remember he was so satisfied and peaceful and blessed in your words in retirement. There wasn't this feeling, and I feel similar to talking to you today, like you're joyful in retirement, you're excited, you're passionate. There's not a loss of that from the loss of a part of your,

the biggest identity that you've played in your life. Where is that come from for you? Where is that starting from for you? I see you today, like, you know, we're laughing, there's passion, there's drive, there's ambition, there's great parenting, there's all these things that you're inspired by and growing for. And that shows me that even though you've Let go of the longest part of your career identity. There's an identity beyond that. Man, that was thank you for that You know what my wife makes fun of me all the time. She says that I every morning I flee out of bed. I'm talking about covers back, go. And my wife was like, I don't understand it.

Why are you so happy every morning? And I'm like, because of every day I wake up, I get to create something. I get to imagine something. I get to inspire someone. I get to imagine something. I get to inspire someone. Like, I'm a little black kid from Initiative Chicago.

Man, that just got me. I just got a little emotional. Like, I'm a black kid from Initiative Chicago that no one's seen, no one gave a chance to. And to be able to have that opportunity every day when I wake up, and it's everything. It's easy, it's Christ. I wake up. And it's everything.

It's easy, it's Christ. That's right there, it's crazy. You know, it's important. It's beautiful. It comes through in the book. It comes through even more when I'm speaking to you today. I've been watching all your other interviews and I love seeing someone who just is, you know, sharing their blessing with so much grace.

And so it's really powerful doing it. Someone get a matisio on that side. I would give you one if we were in person. Man. They hit me, I don't even know. I don't even, I don't think I've ever teared up. Or besides one of the championship, or on, you know, on plaque one like this.

Like it was, that's real. You know, I don't, I don't, I don't know how, you know, people don't get a chance to talk to a lot of little black kids in this city of Chicago. They don't get a voice. You don't get to hear their stories. You know, you get to hear a little bit of, oh, it's gaining faster, drug-fested,

whatever the case may be, you don't get to really hear their stories, man. And it's not lost on me that I was that kid. I can clearly remember little to one. I can clearly remember. And so, man, I'm just thankful, bro. I'm just really thankful for all the blessings. But most importantly, just the people I get to share it all with

to me, that's everything. What if you could tell the whole truth about your life, including all those tender and visible things we don't usually talk about? I'm Megan Devine. Host of the podcast, it's okay that you're not okay. Look everyone's at least a little bit not okay these days, and all those things we don't usually talk about? Maybe we should. This season I'm joined by stellar, gas-like Abmote, Rachel Cargol and so many more.

It's okay that you're not okay. New episodes each and every Monday, available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum. I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bond-vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things.

It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner. Where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. The one you feed explores how to build a fulfilling life admits the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on emotional resilience, transformational habits, and personal growth.

I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists to spiritual teachers, offering powerful lessons to apply daily. Create the life you want now. Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.