On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Fearne Cotton ON: Setting Healthy Boundaries with Love, Family, and in the Workplace

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

Fearne Cotton joins Jay Shetty to discuss the weight and importance of setting boundaries for yourself so you can learn to respect other people’s boundaries, why you need to change when your inner voice is telling you, and channeling negative energy into positive outcomes and changes in you and around you. Fearne is the author of the book, Speak Your Truth, and one of the best known and most popular broadcasters in the UK and is most recently known as the Founder of the wellbeing brand, Happy Place. Her podcast, Happy Place, has featured an array of guests such as Ellie Golding, Jada Pinkett Smith, and Russell Brand amongst others. What We Discuss with Fearne: 00:00 Intro 02:11 The inspiration behind the running selfie 04:41 Try and push yourself with vibrant colors 07:48 Life is everything, it’s loud and it’s quiet 10:54 Don’t ignore that consistent feeling of wanting to change yourself 14:11 Being yourself relieves the pressure to be brilliant at all time 17:03 When we’re curious, we’re always willing to learn 20:13 This social conditioning that we have to act a certain way 24:01 Speaking your truth is learning to say NO 27:52 Setting boundaries now will create healthy relationships 30:52 We need to be responsible for what we are putting out there 34:01 “I’m alright so I can be of service.” - Fearne Cotton 36:51 The pros and cons of having stop abruptly when you mind is at work 39:56 Think about how you can channel negativity into something positive 44:54 Be messy and create something that is authentically you 48:28 We have something to go with how we feel 52:44 Fearne on Fill in the Blanks 53:54 Fearne on Final Five 54:52 How good are we at accepting other people’s boundaries? Like this show? Please leave us a review here - even one sentence helps! Post a screenshot of you listening on Instagram & tag us so we can thank you personally! Episode Resources: Fearne Cotton | Website Fearne Cotton | Twitter Fearne Cotton | Instagram Fearne Cotton | Facebook Fearne Cotton | YouTube Fearne Cotton | Pinterest Fearne Cotton | Books Happy Place Podcast Achieve success in every area of your life with Jay Shetty’s Genius Community. Join over 10,000 members taking their holistic well-being to the next level today, at https://shetty.cc/OnPurposeGeniusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Neum, I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bond-vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner. Where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Getting better with money is a great goal for 2023. But how are you going to make it happen?

Ordering a book that lingers on your nightstand isn't going to do the trick. Instead, check out our podcast How to Money. That's right, we're two best buds offering all the helpful personal finance information you need without putting you to Money. That's right, we're two best buds offering all the helpful personal finance information you need without putting you to sleep. We offer guidance three times a week and we talk about debt payoff, saving more, intelligent investing, and increasing your earnings. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them make progress with their financial goals.

You can listen to How to Money on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Debbie Brown, host of the Deeply Well Podcast, where we hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness, around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your well-being journey. Deeply well is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Namaste. The thing that I have failed at most, I just haven't set clear boundaries because I've been too scared to, and I've always wanted to give I just haven't set clear boundaries because I've been too scared to. And I've always wanted to like give everybody everything that I can. I'm gonna give you my heart. I'm gonna give you my time, my energy, all my words because I haven't felt deserving

of holding much of that back for myself. Certain boundaries now is definitely something that I know is gonna help me have healthy relationships. Ball stop. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, you know that it's my priority to try and sit down with people that I think are going to expand your mind, give you incredible tools for thought and help you

navigate the challenges that come in your lives. And today is no different. I'm so excited because today's guest is none other than Fern Cotton, a TV and radio presenter and author. Her most recent book, Speak Your Truth was published in January 2021, and I can't wait for you to hear about it. Make sure that you click the link and order it. As soon as you finish listening, she's well known for presenting on Radio One and on the BBC and the extra factor.

She also is the host of her own podcast that I got to be a guest on last year, Happy Place, which was just such a joy and fun. I'm so glad to be engaging with you again and being present with you again. I had such a good time on your podcast that I had to have you back on. I'm so excited because today I get to ask questions and you get to answer them. Thank you for doing this. I know. Well, thank you, Jay. It's an absolute honor. And yes, I will try and relax and let go and not interview you, which is my comfort zone. It's very awkward and weird for me to be interviewed. So I'm just going to like

shake it off, let go, and you can do your thing. Well, someone smart once said, speak your truth. So I will, I will remind you of that today to speak yours and not make me speak mine. But I actually want to start somewhere a bit playful, but I've been loving your running selfie videos. I think they're genius and they're brilliant. And I've not seen many people do that before because it's so vulnerable, it's so awkward, it's so difficult, and it's a skill.

It's an actual skill. And I wanted to start there just by asking you, what inspired you to do that? Because it's such a different way of connecting with people. We usually, usually you have people finishing their work out and be like, just done my workout. Or people, or you see people ready for their workout

in their best, athalizia. But you're doing it while running. Tell us about it. Yeah, well, first of all, I'm not that person who wears like a slick, gym kit and looks amazing working out. I tend to wear the t-shirt that I've worn the night before in bed and whatever, leggings are clean and a bra that will support what's needed and I'm out the door.

And I think the main purpose of doing those little videos on Instagram is to get people to get outside. Because I know if I wake up and I feel a bit grumpy and like, I really can't be bothered. If I see somebody online who's just been for a run and they look like they're properly pumped and feeling good and euphoric, I'm like, I've got to go. I've got no choice. I have to get out of the door. So I think it's just to remind people that we've got agency over what we choose to do each day

and getting outside is a really good idea if you can do it. Yeah, I think that's a great reminder. I love that. And it simplifies it because I think when you do see this perfect version of going outdoors or The perfect park or the perfect view it becomes really difficult because most of us don't look that I just got back from playing tennis which is my Workout every day and I did not look like this when I finished playing all when I went out and actually I was facetiming with my friend in London and I was wearing a hat because it was cold in L.A. this morning. And he was looking at me, he's like, why are you wearing a hat? Like, why do you look like that right now?

And I was just, I was just like, it's so cold right now in L.A. in the mornings at least. And so, no, I love that. I think that's a great reminder. One of the things I noticed about you, whenever I see you, is the same one you interviewed me in even today. You're always so colorful. Everything you do is so colorful,

from your clothes, to your headphones, to your phone, to your microphone, to the cover of your beautiful new book, to even the happy place. I think all the graphics and everything is just so beautiful. When did color become important to you? Has it always been important to you? And tell us about that journey with color because I feel like when you're on TV in the beginning, you were muted colors or you may have a stylist, but for you, you've just embodied,

you just embrace and embody color all the time. Yeah, I love color. It's always been really important. I think it probably goes back on a really subconscious level to growing up. My dad has always been a signwriter since, you know, he was a teenager himself. So we always grow up with a lot of paint and colour in that respect. And I'm a massive fan of painting myself. So I've always been really into getting colour on canvas and drawing. And it just makes you feel good. And I've always been really into getting colour on canvas and drawing and it just makes you feel good. And I'm not one of those people that is desperate to look chic or to look perfect or to look really like sophisticated. I'm not sophisticated. I like to express myself and I like to feel joy and I like to push the boundaries in that way.

So yeah, I think I try and inject color like in my home, all the walls are painted in various colors and it just makes me feel really good and just sort of elevated. I think when we're feeling really low and down and we want to blend in, we want to wear dark colors and we want to not be seen. So I try and push myself to get myself out there and you know wear things that are going to make me feel alive and vibrant. So yeah, I'm much more color than I am chic, that is for sure. I love that, I love that. And no, I think it's a beautiful form of self expression.

I love that. No, I think it's a beautiful form of self-expression. And it's nice that you've allowed yourself to just give yourself the permission to wear whatever color you want, to put whatever color you want on the background. And you do feel so much better from it. And I think it applies to something that I think you embody quite uniquely

and your introductions titled this, you know, how getting quiet made me louder. And when I read that, and I read your introduction in your introductions titled this, you know, how getting quiet made me louder. And when I read that, and I read your introduction in your book, I was thinking about that statement. I was thinking about how people view wellness, meditation, wellbeing, positivity. Often it's viewed quite sober and still, and sometimes it can be seen as quite clinical and quite boring

in one sense. It's like, oh, you've got to be very still and silent and quiet. But you embody it with this paradox and I'm a huge fan of paradoxes. I love when two things can meet and people often ask me, they're like, Jay, like you were a monk, but now you're a media, how does that work? And I'm like, that's what I love about life that you can, you can be two things and you don't have to, you don't have to choose and they're not necessarily mutually exclusive, they're not opposites, but they can, and I feel you do that too. Like on one end, you're speaking about calm and quiet, those are titles of your books.

And now it's about speaking your truth, which is all about loud and being out there and speaking up. Tell us about how you found sense, or made sense of having those two seemingly opposite ideas. I think it's just very much, you know, who I am as a person, you know, traditionally I come from a broadcasting background. So I think I always like to also challenge how people view you.

I don't want to be putting this cut. And it happens to people in the public eye a lot that once you're defined as one thing, you know, you can't change, you can't move from that career to that career. And none of this was on purpose. You know, I didn't think, oh, I'm going to, you know, sort of move away from broadcasting

and start talking about mental health or whatever. It was all very sort of accidental and incremental to get to where I am today. But I think it all does. Life is a big mess. Life isn't linear, life isn't perfect, life is never one thing. Life is everything and it's colour and it's monochrome and it's loud and it's quiet. It's absolutely everything and I kind of have to find that balance because if I, especially again, you know, in the UK being in the public eye, if I'm putting myself out there again and again and again and also then you are open to whatever feedback you get, I have to find the balance with that and find the quiet bit and find the still bit.

And I don't think the still bit, I used to probably view it as quite boring and like you've said, perhaps clinical or sort of stagnant, but I really don't now. I see that, but it's exciting because I get to process all the craziness that's just happened or all the thoughts that have been building up or all the emotion that I'm really not enjoying and sit with it and just

let it you know permeate and be and I just get to sort of look at that. So I've only really found that balance in the last probably five or six years but I really enjoy just oscillating between the two and going with it. So yeah, I don't want life to be one thing. That would be terribly boring. I think life is everything and it should be, and I hopefully present it in that way with the work I do. Yeah, no, you do, definitely. And I think watching someone's, so I used to watch you as a kid, right? And I say, kid, you were a kid probably on TV. I was, yeah.

Because I think we're in the same generation. So I was watching you on TV when I was growing up in England, in London. And when I'm watching you and now I see the journey you're on, and now we're in the same space, and we care about the same things, and we value a lot of the same things. And I love seeing that journey. And what you said, there was so true that sometimes if you're in the public eye, and what I find for people is that even if you're not in the public eye, your family is your public

eye, or your community is your public eye, or your university, or your school is your public eye. Yes, for everyone. Everyone has a public eye, even if they're not a public figure. And so often we feel scared or uncertain to shift who we are, because people know us as one thing. Tell us about where you found the courage, or how was stillness instrumental in those transitions, because you've had massive transitions in the public public eye, with family members, with people in your life. what was going through your mind in those transitions? What were those points of courage that kind of you had to take, which I think a lot of people will empathise with

and feel that they're in that position? Well, I'd love to say that I felt totally confident making any big decision, but that is so not the case. I think, you know, although it was all very incremental, there was of course a moment where I made an active decision to leave the main broad casting job I had at the time, which was on BBC Radio One. I had a daily show where I'd get to interview, you know, the most amazing musicians every week,

whether it's like Eminem, the Foo Fighters, Alicia Keys, you know, it was just constant amazingness. And I loved every week, whether it's like Eminem, the Foo Fighters, Alicia Keys, you know, it was just constant amazingness and I loved every minute, but I just knew where I was at in my life and I, you know, was having kids at the time and I just needed change. I didn't even know what change I just thought I need something, I need to shake it up. I want a new chapter and I had to jump into the void and I didn't have anything to necessarily fall back on. I was lucky I had a home and I had a little bit of savings that could kind of see out whatever this unknown period

of time was gonna be, but there was definitely no safety net. There isn't in my job whatsoever. You can be yesterday's news very, very quickly. So it was terrifying and I had a lot of people going to me, why are you leaving radio? You're absolutely mad. It's the best job in the world. How could you, you know, why would you do that? It's just a craze decision. And every time I had to go back to the feeling, back to the feeling of, I know I need change, back to, there's an itch and I can't ignore it anymore, I need change, but it was terrifying, like every time someone

said to me, why are you doing this, I had to really step back and go, why am I doing this? And it always went back to that feeling of, I can't even articulate what it was, I just need change. And it was scary for ages, You know, I lost sleep over it for months, thinking, have I made the right choice, have I ruined everything. But I couldn't ignore that feeling of just wanting something a bit different. So it was, it was as simple as that. There was no, you know, huge confidence or moment where I was like, I know that I'm headed the right direction. It was just jumping into the void and I'd hoping for the best. I love that.

I love that, honestly. I think you're spot on. I don't think anyone's ever fully confident about a decision. And I think you're so right that when you're walking through that decision, you're holding on so tight to that feeling of, I don't know what it is, but I know I need to change. I think that's such a real, I can relate to that. You can't ignore it. You can't ignore it. You can't. Have you ever found that when you kind of get to the other side where you've made

the transition, people have now somewhat accepted who you've now evolved into, and now all of a sudden there's a pressure, especially with what you do now, there's a pressure to always be positive or a pressure to always say the right thing or come across a certain way. Do you find that you also come up against that sometimes where now you get pressure for your new identity almost? Yeah, but I think the sort of pressure to be purely positive, I had really in my sort of traditional broadcasting career

because I couldn't have gone on TV or on Radio One instead, oh god, I feel absolutely crap today, you know, and that wasn't there wasn't space for that, whereas now, I think the only pressure I feel is to be completely authentic and completely real, and that probably took a little bit of confidence to go, do I want to do that? Can I do that? How vulnerable will I feel if I do that? But I've actually, I feel more comfortable doing that

than I did pretending everything was brilliant. I think I just feel like under so much pressure every day to have the funny quip, the right thing to say to a band or whatever it might be. Whereas now I think if I'm feeling awful, if I've had insomnia the night before, if I've had a panic attack, I now have an audience who are kind of willing to listen to that and then to get into a discussion about it. So if anything, it's like lessened the pressure and I feel way more comfortable. Like talking to you now, I think

before I would have had to be like, oh my god, what would present a Fern say and can I be funny in this bit? Now I'm just like, I'm a mom, I've just been out on a walk with my kids, I've just squeezed in a little Instagram live. This room that I'm in is a bloody tape is just stuff everywhere and I'm knackered but I'm really happy and I'm presenting myself to you as I am. Whereas I just I couldn't do it before and I'm knackered, but I'm really happy. And I'm presenting myself to you as I am. Whereas I just, I couldn't do it before. And I'd had years of conditioning from the age of 15 up to probably my early 30s. And now was I sort of hurtled towards 40 this year.

I'm pretty comfy being me. And that feels really nice. I love that. I also want to add just for everyone who's listening right now that we're doing this in Ferns evening because she's been kind enough doing it in my morning in L.A. So she's in London or in England and it's 626 there or something like that. Right. And so I want to say a big thank you to Fern and a big thank you.

I want to say thank you to you because right now you've given me the best excuse to miss the most hectic awful bit for any parent which is bath and bedtime. I'm like, I'm out of it. I am up here, Chilling. I might even pretend when we finish that we're still going. So I don't have to go downstairs.

So thank you. I love that. I'm not a parent yet. So I guess I'll find out. But tell me where you draw that line between, and I'm really intrigued to get into this with you because I think, I think I, I relate to what you're saying. And, and I, you know, listen to your podcast and I have read your book.

And so I, I feel like I have a good understanding of your thoughts. But where do you draw the line between being fully authentic and accepting who you are and showing that and then finding action and growth and movement in a direction? Because I feel like that's something you do quite well where you're okay with, except like you just said, and you gave a beautiful description of your room and everything. At the same time, you're someone who wants to grow and improve and and so about. How do you draw that balance in line for even the people that listen to you so that it's more because it's more when I hear you and I read your work, it's not just about venting or expressing it's more than that. Tell me about that. Walk me through that.

I can sign up so clearly because I feel in every bone. I am like the driving force behind all of it is curiosity. I am so unbelievably curious about all of it. And I think, you know, now I'm at the point in life that I'm at and having had the life experiences that I've had and the big, low, and the big highs, I'm so curious to learn and I'm so curious to hear about other people's lives. Like that's the foundation of the podcast. I want to know, like what drives people. I want to know what gave them the confidence, the courage to make big decisions. I want to know how they got out of dark, black holes that they felt they couldn't get out of.

I'm so curious because like you've just said, I want to move forward, I want to grow, I want to expand. I don't want that to ever end. I want that to be just perpetual, like an omnipresent willingness to learn and move forward. But with everybody else, so I don't want to be like, here I am,

I'm telling everybody what I know. I'm with my audience doing it, because you know, I could have had a panic attack the night before about something, but then the next day, be interviewing some amazing prolific teacher or speaker. And I want to get as much as I can out of that for me, so I can help myself.

And also for my listeners, because especially at the moment, everyone is struggling. It might not look like it, because we're going Instagram and everyone looks like they're having a wicked time, but everyone is struggling in some way. It's all varying levels, obviously, and in varying ways, but everyone's got struggles going on. So I want to, I'm not going to sit there in those struggles. I'm going to listen to these, I'm like, how lucky am I that I get to interview like Deepak Shrupra or Elizabeth Gilbert? Like, how lucky that I get to sit and do that. So I'm going to get everything I can out of it because I'm curious. And I think when we're curious, we can't get bored, we can't get complacent,

and we'll always, always be willing to learn. I love that. And I think when you allow yourself to get curious about pain or challenges or pressure, as opposed to getting judgmental about it, or getting self-sabotaging or judgmental about how you feel about how you feel right now, you allow yourself the opportunity to go, okay, well, what can I learn from this or what can I learn from this person?

When was it that you felt you stopped speaking up? Like, when was it in your life where you realized you were like, I have stopped speaking up. I've stopped expressing myself. I think for all of us, there's definitely this, just, you know, it happens all over the world, this very normal social conditioning that we all go through, either from our parents, teachers, just from being out of your own home, out amongst strangers, that you act a certain way, you know,

like my kids are now five and one of them's about to turn eight. And, you know, they're pretty wild still as they should be. You know, if they're unhappy about something, they will kick off in the middle of the street. I don't care if there's people watching or that it's embarrassing or whatever. They'll just go for it. And you know, over time, we all get that sort of social conditioning that we have to act a certain way. We shouldn't show certain emotions, etc. You know, some of that's going to serve us well because we're going to be able to forge great friendships, get jobs, etc. But we all take it way too far. And I think for a lot of people, depending also on the type of person you are and the dynamics that you find yourself in,

you might become highly responsible for everybody around you. So feel like you've got to always be pleasing everybody and you shut down your own needs and you know, the possibility of delegation, et cetera. So I think a lot of the start saying yes when really we mean no. And for me, that probably started at quite a young age because I started in TV at 15 and I came from working class background. I didn't know anyone in TV. This was like the absolute dream come true completely unusual. So I wasn't going to turn up and be like, I'm not wearing that. I'm not saying that. I was like, yes, I'll, I'll, anything you want. I'll wear the purple corduroy flares. Yes, yes, you can make me, you have any makeup. I don't get, I'll say whatever you want because I couldn purple cordy flares, yes, yes, you can make me have any makeup,

I don't care, I'll say, because I can't believe I was in the job. And again, some of that served me well because I was able to keep going, but again, I took it probably way too far. And in my 20s, I think there were a lot of moments either at work, but also in my personal relationships where I just didn't feel the confidence to say my bit. I just, I didn't feel deserving of it. I didn't feel like, I just felt like, well, who's going to listen to me? What's, what's my voice got to do there? I thought that everybody else was right, that everybody else knew so much more than I did, that I just let everybody say and do what they wanted and I just remained quite silent.

And again, this has been such a new thing for me, you know, really within the last 12 months is when I've dug deeply into this subject matter. So really, it's been the last few years that I've even experimented with using my voice in a really authentic way where I believe I can help people, but also I believe that I deserve to ask for help, to say no, and to set really healthy boundaries. Like, this is very fresh and new for me. Like, this book is not coming from an expert-led place.

This is like, I am on this journey with you. How do we do this? So, hopefully the book comes across in a way that's encouraging, but also like, I am struggling. I am with you on this one, because it's really hard. It doesn't feel anything else, but really genuine where you're coming from that place of like, guys, I'm trying to figure this out right now.

But at the same time, I think you said three really incredible things there. You talked about saying no, setting boundaries, like, and there was one more, but those two first of all, saying no and setting boundaries is being such important, simple steps to speaking up, because I think even when we think about speaking up, we think, what does that really mean? And there you've kind of defined just very simple steps

that someone can start with. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities like does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses

for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet. So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season, and yet we're constantly discovering new secrets.

The depths of them, the variety of them, continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share ten incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am. I needed her to help me. Something was gnawing at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a peace missing. Why not restart?

Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Romani and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere and their toxic behavior in words can cause serious harm to your mental health.

In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte, who was loved by the Tinder swindler. The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissists in your life. Each week you will hear stories from survivors

who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tell us about saying no, because I think that was a big one for me. I've, that was a big one for me for this year actually, for me for 2021 where I've been unfortunate to email back a few people at the beginning of this year just saying, sorry,

I've just trying to learn to say no and just can't do this, you know, and it's so awkward because you want to please everyone and you want everyone to be happy and you want to make people happy and tell us about saying no and your journey of understanding where and when to use that one. Yeah, well, yeah, first of all, it's, you know, it's absolutely right that I don't think speaking your truth is just like, I'm going to say whatever I want to anyone because that's problematic and we'll get on to that later, but I think saying no is a really good way of practicing this, because like you

say, you want to keep everybody happy and sweet, and you also want to be making the right decisions so that you're meeting interesting people, engaging with interesting people, etc. But, you know, when it becomes detrimental, there has to be healthy boundaries. And also like one of the easiest ways to test whether you really went, no, we've all done this. Someone says not this year because we're not able to go anywhere, but you know, can't do you want to come to this party? Now I don't really like parties.

That again has been something that I've found the confidence to stay out loud more recently. I hate them, I just don't like parties. I sometimes like my own parties, which is quite selfish, but I'm not a massive fan of going to like, unless it's someone that I really know well, I'm gonna know everyone there, then that's super fun. Somebody might show you to a party and you say yes

because you think, how can I not go to the party? I've got to go to the blimmin' party. Then the day before the party, you're literally like dreading the party, you can't even think of how you're going to leave the house, it's going to be dark, you're going to be knackered, how am I going to leave the house to go to this party? And then on the day, you make up some awful excuse that, you know, your kids got a runny nose and there's a work thing that you didn't do. And then you're lying. and then you're lying and then

you're lying and then you don't go to the party and then you spend all night at home going, oh I feel so guilty about not going to the party, it's so awful that I lied, I didn't go to the party. If you just said no two three weeks before none of that would have happened but not just like no, no with thank you so much for inviting me. I'm not really in the headspace right now where I wanna be out with lots of people, but I would love to take you for a coffee or whatever at another time,

just so me and you can celebrate your whatever it is that's happening. Just be honest, because people like that, people like honesty, rather than you making a polite, tell them the line. So that's a really obvious example, but we have all done that. And you're going to play that to work, family commitments, things you said you'll do, you're not favours, whatever. If it's not really what you want to do, that's alright. I don't think you're a bad person. I don't think I'm a bad person for saying no. We can't do everything.

It's impossible. It's impossible. It's a good example actually because I think when you shared it, it just shows you how the simple act of saying no in a nice honest way saves you days of headache. Yes. And that's literally what happens when we don't speak our truth, or we aren't honest with ourselves, is that you end up creating so much more headache and pain for yourself, because now you're thinking about this very simple decision for way too long,

and of course it gets more complex with more complicated things, but the essence is still there, that you can save yourself time, energy, effort, relationships. Descentment. Yeah, all of that can be saved when you say no. You also spoke about setting boundaries. Tell us a bit about some of the boundaries you think you've set maybe in the last 12 months that have been really healthy boundaries.

Oh, this one I find so difficult and I've really learned from amazing people like this, this is wonderful speaker and writer that I know called Donna Lancaster who is like so big on boundaries and I have learned so much from talking to her because it's probably been the thing that I have failed at most, I'd say over the years as an adult, that I just haven't set clear boundaries because I've been too scared to, because I haven't had the confidence, I haven't felt deserving. And I've always wanted to like give everybody everything

that I can, I'm gonna give you my heart, I'm gonna give you my time, my energy, all my words, because I haven't felt deserving of holding much of that back for myself. So that goes into a whole other thing of like self-worth and you know that can derive from all sorts of life experience of course. But setting boundaries now is definitely something that I know is going to help me have healthy relationships full stop. It's not going to annoy people, it's not going

to make me ostracized from society. It's going to create really healthy relationships, even with people that I find tricky or people that find me tricky, where there's like that discord is going to just help in every way. So I think what I've tried to do recently is be really honest about what I can offer people because I'm a mum of four kids. I have two teenage stepkids and two younger kids, because I'm a mum of four kids, I have two teenage stepkids and two younger kids and I'm a wife and I'm a daughter, I'm a sister, I'm a friend, I am also a very passionate worker and I love what I do. So how can I

spread myself across all of that and stay sane. And that comes down to just being honest with people. Like I really, I can't give you any more than I'm giving you right now. I love you, but I can't give you any more. And I think again, when you're honest with people, they might at first be like, Ouch, okay, you're not giving me what you used to give me all the time.

But one, I think that's just the initial bit of setting boundaries. Then there is a new normal after that. So this is something I am very gradually getting better at. Yeah, because it feels like there's so much at stake, right? It feels like there's so much to lose when you start setting boundaries because your relationship with this person has been built on certain expectations. And now you're taking away some of those expectations. You feel like you could lose this relationship

and that could apply to work, that could apply to a partner, a best friend, a parent. You know, I think a lot of people go through this with their parents where they have a very specific relation with how their parent is involved in their life. And now when they have a new person or a new partner or a child, it starts to change that relationship and it feels scared. So, it's almost like a lot of this comes back down to being so not sure because like we

already touched on that, you're never sure about the decision you're making, but you need to be sure that this isn't working almost. Like, it's always like, you may not be sure about what is going to work, but you're sure that this doesn't working almost. Like, it's always like, you may not be sure about what is gonna work, but you're sure that this doesn't work. Yeah, like we all know the definition of madness, like doing the same thing on repeat, expecting a different outcome, you know, that's just, that is mad and we've all, again, we've all done it, you know, I've moaned and complained about things

or people over the years and they want so much for me and blah, blah, blah, blah. But I had never changed my side of the story. We need to be responsible for what we're putting out there. And it is very complex, like you've just said, when it comes to parents or very close relatives, because they might have years and years of being used to you being one way.

And as soon as you change that, and you might decide quite quickly that you need to make changes and implement them quite quickly, that might not go down well instantly, but it's still going to be better than what was happening before, which was just banging your head against the wall, resenting people, you know, maybe bitching about them behind their backs, whatever it might be, rather than being honest, creating a healthy boundary that allows them to understand what you can do and give and receive, and also give them the opportunity to do the same. You know, it hasn't got to be a one-sided thing of you just spouting out about what you

need and want. This can very much be like a two-way street of, okay, I can't give you any more than I am. What do you think you need from me? And you know, you just use the word expectations, which I think is so, you know, so common that we have expectations of people, because they've got, you know, the name of this role in life, whether they're, it could be mother or it could be sister or friend. And sometimes we need to look at what expectations we're putting on other people as well as ourselves

you know and is it fair to have expectations of other people and what are the varying degrees of that? It's all it's all bespoke to what's going on in your life I can't tell anybody out there how they should be living their lives, but we'll know We'll know deep down what the you know what responsibilities we hold and if they're the right ones or not. And I have, you know, I guess, over the years, generally been someone that takes on a lot of people's responsibilities that aren't mine. And I thought they were. And I've actually recently gone, oh God, none of that stuff's mine. I don't need to carry that. That's not mine. I'm going to just slowly hand that back and set a new boundary. But again, as I said, this is like new stuff for me.

I'm learning it and I'm excited by it. So I'm talking about it so passionately, but it is, it's an everyday commitment and it's hard. Yeah, I love that we always have a to-do list for other people. So it's like that person's happiness, that person's stillness, that person's, you know, and it's nice because it means we care and we want to help out. But the problem is when you see it as yours, and that's the challenge, right? It's wonderful to be of service. It's wonderful to help people you love and care about. But when you start seeing that their happiness is your responsibility. I think, Jay, once you've set clear boundaries and you've reserved enough energy or whatever

it is for you, you can be more of service to people because you're alright. If you're strong out doing everything for everyone and making sure everyone else is happy, you are going to feel horrendous and have nothing to give. So I think it actually allows you to be more of service to others because taking care of you, taking responsibility for yourself, your actions, you're not blaming everyone, but equally, you're setting clear boundaries, you've got more to give. So I think it leads back to service, which you know, you're the expert on, you're so wonderful when you talk about service. I think you have to come from that place of, I'm all right. Therefore, I can be of service.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you said so beautifully is that you should never see it as yours. That's the issue I feel like. As soon as you start seeing it as it's all yours and all for you to do. And if it doesn't work, then it's all your fault. And that's, that's where it starts getting really messy because it wasn't yours to begin with. And I think that, that's, And I think that's where so many of us get stuck. And it's tricky because as a parent, that one is so complicated because these little

people, especially when they're very young, you are responsible for most of their life. But I think there is still this sweet spot of like say they are having a huge tantrum or seemingly unhappy about something. You can go into complete like self blame. Oh my God, are my parenting right. It must be my fault. And I think you know, you do still have to have that slight moment where you step back and go, they're little people, they are their own people. You know, they're, I can't be responsible for having other emotions other than happiness is fine. And I can let them do that. If they're going to be super unhappy about this, I'm going to let them do that right now.

There is still a little sweet spot, I think, where you can do it, but it is tricky. And I think especially with teenagers right now, they're having a really tough time. Not necessarily my stepkids, but I mean, you know, in general teenagers across the globe are facing a lot of uncertainty. You know, the future is very unknown. And that for parents is really, really difficult because you want them to feel okay. And at the moment, I don't know how any of us are meant to do that. So it is complex. It's not an easy thing to do, but

we have to be able to let go, just some extent, because it is out of our control. Yeah, no, for sure. Lockdowns, lockdown, as you were saying, and we were talking about as you've been touching on, it's been a really tough time for everyone in every way, and different things for different people across the world. But for you, it's also been a time of being really creative. And you've felt this really creative spark both personally and professionally. Tell us about why you think this time was so powerful

for that, because I think for a lot of people, it hasn't been that or they want to shift to that and they haven't quite got there. How was it such a creative time for you? Yeah, I know exactly why and it's really interesting. I think, you know, I've not been in my adult life, someone that is particularly good at like going on holiday or vacation, you know, I'm not, I'm not the sort of person that's like, oh, I'm just going to relax for a week or two weeks. When I'm in that sort of space, and you know, the pandemic has been a much less glamorous version of that, where we're

not going on a holiday, but we're forced to stop. We can't do anything. When I'm forced to stop, everything comes to the surface, because I'm so busy normally, and I keep really busy, and I'm probably quite hyperactive as a human. When I'm forced to stop, everything comes up. And I might have a period where I'm like, so edgy and like physically tense and like, oh my God, I could just like pull my hair out. I don't know what to do with this energy.

Like I can't stop. How can I stop? And then that starts to turn into, okay, why am I feel, what emotions are there? Why am I feeling like this? What does it root back to? And then I'm just buzzing with ideas and thoughts and things because it's all floated up, all the stuff that is normally like below at the moment, homeschooling, cooking for the kids, making sure the house isn't a complete and utter tear, etc. Everything's just sort of rumbling down here. But as soon as we have to properly stop

like the initial lockdown, there was nothing to do. There was no work, nobody'd worked out how to do this yet, you know, like podcast on Zoom. This was all in the future. So I was just struck with like, oh my God, and it coincided with me having this, you know, diagnosis of a huge system, my vocal cords, that then again, you know, there was no huge cyst on my vocal cords, that then again, you

know, there was no distraction from that because there was nothing to do. So I was like, why is it there? I need to explore this. So I think in moments where I'm forced to stop like going on a holiday, like being in your first lockdown of a pandemic, I'm wanting to organize it all and sort it and then collate all of that and do something with it. So I think I'm quite lucky in the fact that that's how my brain works, but it's obviously really annoying when I do have the chance to relax because I sort of don't know how to do it. I'm kind of awful at going on holiday because I just don't know how to stop because because there's so much stuff in my head and feeling is coming up. So there's good and bad to thinking like that.

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely there. I think a lot of people feel that way that, you go on vacation, but you're thinking about work or you're at work and you're thinking about the vacation. And that whole dichotomy of always just feeling full but in a difficult way. But at the same time, sometimes it's that fullness that creates something really special and beautiful. And so I think right now with people struggling to be creative, what kind of advice or tips would you give them if people were feeling

I do want to be more creative. I do want to use this time I've got I've got used to this now like I've got I've got used to the fact that this is life now and this is normal because in the beginning I mean you know in the first month no one knew what was happening and where is going but now people maybe think I want to be more creative I want to be more productive and effective. Where would you recommend they start? I mean, I can only really talk from my own personal experience of how I do it. And I think any negative thing that happens to me or any negative emotion that comes up or anything I feel stuck in or edgy with, my first thought is, oh, how can I use this?

What can I do with this? Rather than, oh, this is awful, I hate this, I'm trapped in it. use this? What can I do with this? Rather than, oh, this is awful, I hate this, I'm trapped in it. I go, what can I do with this? And I think if you work in a creative industry, all your hobbies are creative, whether it is painting or music or writing or poetry, you can channel all of that.

Like some of the best songwriters who are either friends with the ones that we all just know and love, you see them directly channel their most horrific pain into something so utterly beautiful. I'm not doing it on that level, but I am certainly using it to go right. I need to do an Instagram live about this.

I need to do an Instagram live about panic or anxiety, or I need to do a, you know, write a piece about the feeling of dread. Like I need to get it out you know, right a piece about the feeling of dread. Like, I need to get it out. And I want to then engage with other people to hear what they think, what their experience is. So it's not just this kind of internalized thing that I'm going through. I want to feel outside of that.

What are you? Well, what's everyone else thinking about that? Do you feel this? You know, I'm, again, it goes back to that curiosity. So I think if you are a creative, or everyone's a creative person, there's no like creative type, everyone's creative on a level. It's just all manifest in a varying manner.

I think you need to not disregard all the negative, circumstantial things that happen to you, feelings that you have, things that you're witnessing that you feel is unfair. Channel that into creation. We've all got the ability to do it. It might not be fine art or writing a beautiful piece of music.

It might be gardening. It might be making something out of cardboard boxes with your kids, but just get like channel it out. I think when we get stuck in all that negativity, that's where we get right as block or can't paint or whatever. But use all that dark stuff and make it into something gorgeous. Yeah, that's such a great point.

I think that you've brought it up because it's almost like everything in our life is cyclical and everything's going around in a cycle and the challenge is that when we're feeling something it's just getting stuck and it's just getting stored somewhere and blocked somewhere. And often we think it's not shareable because it's not beautiful or it's not, but that's your point that you can actually be the person to transform that feeling into something shareable, into something beautiful, into something not perfect. We're not saying

to turn it into something perfect. Saying turning it into something that makes you feel like you've had an opportunity. I think the example of a musician is such a great one. I think that's such a brilliant one because all the music we listen to, our songs usually about that person being in pain of some sort. And now it's coming out in this way and we love that.

And we need to do that for ourselves. I think that is such a great, great way of looking at emotion and I hope everyone who's listening or watching today, you find a way to notice the pattern of what you feel regularly and find a creative outlet for that. And I mean, I can give a personal example. It's small, but it was huge for me and it may sound really basic, but it was so big for me. I really don't enjoy working out. I never have.

I really enjoy sport. I don't enjoy working out. Never enjoyed the gym. Don't enjoy personal trainers. Don't enjoy workout classes. Like, that's just not me, but I love sport. And so when I used to live in England, I used to play football with my mates twice a week, and it was sport. And so when I used to live in England, I used to play football with my mates twice a week

and it was amazing. And then when I moved to LA, I couldn't really find a group of that many 22 people every week to play football. And so I started going to the gym to keep fit and healthy and all the rest of it. And then obviously during lockdown that ended. And I was really finding that working out

had become such a pain point in my life. It was almost like I felt that kind of block and to exercising. And when I'd gone to hike, it was nice, but I didn't feel I was really exercising. And recently I started playing tennis. And what I love about it is that I start my mornings feeling like a kid, because it's playful, it's competitive.

I'm not great at it, like I'm okay, because it's playful, it's competitive, I'm not great at it, like I'm okay, but it's playful and I feel like now when I start my day after having done that, I feel so happy and playful and fun and like a kid and I'm like, I'm ready for the day, as opposed to before I was working out and starting my day feeling stressed that I hadn't worked out enough,

pressured that I hadn't done it right, and then feeling tired from the work I'm not excited. And I'm just, it's so interesting how these really simple things, when we're not expressing that, like, I need to feel like I'm playing and competing in a fun way. And when I'm not doing that, I don't get to express that if that makes sense. Not too long ago, in the heart of the Amazon Rainforest, this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life.

I saw it and I saw, oh well, this is a very unusual situation. It was cacao, the tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen, or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun bite. I mean, you saw the stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can saw the stacks of cash in her office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate.

We're all lost. It was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building armed with machetes. And we've heard all sorts of things that you know, somebody got shot over this.

Sometimes I think all, all this for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions, wild chocolate, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save your retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet, roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two.

But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money, can help. That's right, we're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now, and we want to see you achieve your money goals, and it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering list of questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is Choc Full of the Personal Finance Knowledge that you need with guidance three

times a week, and we talk about debt payoff. If, let's say you've had a particularly spend thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, how do monies got your back? Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mungeshia Tickler, and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment

I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop! But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology,

my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good, there is risk too far. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, because I tell you what's sprung to mind there is, you know, this weird modern day concept, probably that all has been generated from how we use social media, that so often we're trying to like force our creation to this thing that as you said earlier ends up

being this perfect image or this perfect moment or this perfect piece or whatever it is. So we're kind of like forcing our creation into this square, whereas let it be in perfect, like perfect so, uh, like what is perfect? Like perfect is just, it's subjective anyway, but it's become something that perhaps is more of a, well, it's certainly an algorithm now, you know, like, oh, this has got so many likes, so this must be perfect. And we're all trying to create something that is the perfect algorithm. And it's like, be messy, be creative, be playful, be, you know, let that pain or the good stuff come out and manifest and create something that is just you.

So, you know, I know now, if I put a picture on Instagram of me looking dog rough, you know, saying that I didn't sleep last night, that's me showing you what is really happening and I'm creating a moment for you where you can understand how I'm feeling. If someone wants to have a go at me or they don't think it's the perfect image, I don't care. It's so not the point for me anymore because I just think

it's, we can look for perfect everywhere. We can go on Pinterest, we can follow certain influencers on Instagram. We can find perfect so easy. It's all over the shop. Is it meaningful? Is it deep? Is it nourishing? I don't think so. But look at all people that I think I classes like my heroes, like David Bowie. Was he this shiny, perfect person? No, he was this kind of iconic, bizarre creature who had two different coloured eyes and outfits that were totally not the norm,

and he just broke every boundary. He wasn't looking for perfect. He was looking to express and create. And I think we've all become so focused on creating perfection rather than just what feels good. And like you said, with tennis, was playful and fun. Exactly, exactly. And yeah, I can agree with you more. I think, I think your rights, perfection, subjective, it's not real. We all don't know what it is. It's elusive. It's ever changing. It's definition. When you look at, you know, I've read articles and studies on like what's the perfect body shape for a man and women that's been created by media and how it's changed all over the media cycle. And you just see how like a different, in different decades,

different things were seen as perfect. And it's all just created and manipulated by what we see and what we're exposed to. And so there is no such thing as perfect. But there is just allowing yourself to feel. But what you're saying, what I think is the distinction that I want everyone to get who's listening and watching is, it's not just about feeling your pain, it is about expressing it, sharing it, creating from it, because I think there's a lot of, there's a lot just about feeling it, which is important, but then something has to happen with it after you've felt it, and I feel that's where a lot of us are missing that link.

You know, maybe create, maybe saying using the word creating is actually being too narrow minded because a lot of the time, rather than sitting with that pain, you could choose. I often, if I'm feeling angry, I will run. I will get outside and I will run and I will listen to some like heavy music like Kings of Leon's first album which is all angry and ferocious and I will run it out.

Like, I'm not necessarily creating anything but I am moving it on and I'm getting it out and I just know that if I feel one of those heavy emotions, I just can't sit in it. I've got to do something. So if it's anger, I need movement, if it's depression, I need to write, or I need to talk, I need to connect with other people about it, even though that feels nearly impossible. But I've got to do that. And if it's panic, I probably need to pain or draw or do something fidgety and like, you know, move and get it out of me. You just have to work out what's right for you, but like, get it out, get moving, get it out.

That's a great list though. That's a really good list of, and that's exactly what I think about, like I always say, when you feel hungry, you eat. When you feel you need to be clean, you take a shower, like, we have something to go with how we feel and we haven't found what we should focus on when we feel something.

And what you've just drawn there for yourself, which I agree you're not saying everyone needs to do it the same way, but I love the way you made that really simple. It's like, when I feel this, I need to focus on this. When I feel this, I need to focus on this. And it's almost like, each and every single one of us, and I know your book does this beautifully. You have lots of different activities and exercises and places for people to scribble, because I think it's so important to do that, to feel something and then move forward or focus on something else.

So I think that's a really great piece of actionable advice that I would suggest that if everyone can say, when I feel this, if I feel this, then I do this. And you can play with it and experiment with it. And also, look at what you do habitually because normally, and this is what I've learned a very hard way, what I used to do was, I feel depressed. I'm going to buy some shoes. You know, I've done an action, but it's not been the right one. So I think we've got to find things that are free

because that all of the good stuff is free. We've got to find things that easily attainable or achieve, so whether it's just like drawing with a pen on paper, so it hasn't got to be paints and a canvas, you know, just doodling, like just express in a way that is like very old school and natural and free because that will always be the thing that feels better than buying something

or like, you know, spending hours scrolling through Instagram because you feel sad, that's not gonna make you feel better either or sending someone a terrible text because you wanna blame someone else. I think it's about making sure that action is gonna bring you up a level from where you are, not make you sink further. What's going to get you one wrong up the ladder, even if it's anger to just feeling a bit

edgy, that's good. That's better than going down into despair. Just I think it's about looking for the action. And I don't always do this. God, I will still sometimes buy a pair of shoes, and I really shouldn't be, or say something to my husband that was not his fall, and just go, ah, and blame him. I'm still human. I'll still do that. But I, from the work I do and the people I talk to, I definitely have a deeper awareness of the moments where

I should take a good positive step in in the right direction. Yeah, that's brilliant. Thanks, Fern. I love that. So, I've got two segments that we end on purpose with every time. One's called Fill in the Blanks and the other one's the final five. So, we're going to start with Fill in the Blanks first. And so, Fern, this is your Fill in the Blanks.

Vulnerability allows me to. Share. Like it allows me to. Share. That is the gift of it. One of my truths is. One of my truths is I still find it really hard to speak my truth. That's great. That's a great one. Calm is found in. Bed with a book. Nice. Solitude allows me to. Breathe.

Breathe. And then last fill in the bank, my favorite color is. Green. Earthy. Oh, green. Interesting. was not expecting that cool okay all right your final five what's one thing you know to be true about yourself that others might not realize that I love love love being on my own and being quiet I don't think people assume that because I connect constantly with people

but I love being alone and I love being quiet. That's the same with me. I can totally relate to it. Every time I say that to someone, they're like, no, that's so not true. That's not true. Yeah, they're like, no, you don't know yourself, J.E. Okay, good. They're saying, well, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months? Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. I am learning it every day. It's the most important lesson. Set healthy boundaries with love. I love that. If there's one gift and when I say gift, I don't mean a physical gift. I mean like a gift of life that you could give your kids. What would it be? The gift of

learning to set boundaries. Even with me, which would be so hard, because I'd be like, you can't set boundaries with me, I'm your mum, but I'm gonna have to live that one to the end. Yeah, that's probably the toughest one, I guess. Oh, it kind of comes back at us. That's a really important thing though.

It's, yeah, I'm gonna take a slight detour before our last couple of questions in the final five, but we talk a lot about, and maybe you were saying about your friend and the expert you were speaking about with boundaries, we speak a lot about setting our own boundaries, but how good are we accepting other people as boundaries? Once we get good at setting them ourselves, we probably naturally will be much more accepting of those given to us. So same my friend Donna who was talking about every text she sends me. She goes, like yesterday, she said, I did this interview recently. I thought I'd send it to you

if you want to read it. Hashtag boundaries, you don't have to. And you know, she'll constantly allow me to set a boundary. She'll ask for one, and I'll go, no, I want to read it. It's fine. But I think once you're really good at it, you're almost expecting people to do it. I think when we find it, when we're either being a martyr, which I've definitely done over the years, try to like do everything for everybody else and put myself last, you know, all that sort of stuff. Or we're just generally people pleasing. When people set boundaries, we think, how dare you?

I give everything to you. I do everything for you and you're setting a boundary, but that's only because I haven't set any. So I think when you're setting them well, you're almost expecting other people too. So I think that one will hopefully come naturally with the other. Yeah, that's a great answer.

I think that's also a great test and self-check on whether you're actually setting boundaries effectively as if you can accept someone else's boundaries, chances are you're getting better at setting them. Yeah. It's a good test and a good check. I like that. I'm really glad we're testing that.

All right, your final two questions. If you could create a law for everyone in the world to follow, what would it be? You can't say set boundaries, but you can. Yeah, set boundaries. I think I have to look at what's going on in the world at the moment and we certainly don't need any more rules, that's for sure. So I think it would be that we all have to just accept that we all think differently because we're all, everyone's fighting, everyone's arguing, everything is so divisive. And at times we do need to stand up for our beliefs and join in a community and do good. If it's always coming from like a benevolent place, from a good intent. But I think we just like the

thing I think we all need to think and the sort of law that we all need to kind of abide to is we're we all think differently like that is that is human nature that is law that is what's going on we we all think differently you know we're not going to always meet in the middle and that that's life we have to be accepting of that. Yeah, it's a great answer. Alright, fifth and final question. What's something that you used to think was true, but now you no longer do? I used to think that success was kind of like the biggest, the best, the shiniest, the most perfect. Oh, I really don't think that anymore at all. It's the biggest lie ever that I believed, you know, success is it's a feeling. It's a feeling. It's not a thing. It's not a number. It's not something that's visual. It's a feeling of,

you know, I could do something that was quite small and intimate with my writing, and it just felt juicy and right, and that is success. And I think we all need to, in the modern world, really look at that, you know, marker of what success is to us rather than what it looks like on Instagram, how many numbers there are, followers, money, shiny cars, whatever. It's just not any of that. Success is a feeling and I've certainly learned that over the last probably 10 years of my career on saying. I love that. Thank you so much, Fern. Everyone, speak your truth is available right now. Make sure you go and grab a copy of the book. Like I said, it's got loads of great activities and exercises and lists and things that you can reflect

on in the book, which is what I love so much about it because it's gonna allow you to go through the journey with Fern. And if you don't already go and subscribe to the happy place, go and listen to my new Fern's episode and all our episodes with all our incredible guests, as she was mentioning, I think you'll absolutely love it. And fun, thank you again for doing an episode of On Purpose.

I still can't believe we haven't met, but I'm really, really looking forward to it. I'm really looking forward to it. I'm actually really excited to attend a happy place festival. So I'm really looking forward to that when those are back. Oh my god, it'd been honor to have you there, but I can't wait to see why. I feel like I know you from speaking to you and following you and messaging you. It's so lovely to connect again and thank you so much for letting me on your podcast today. Thank you so much.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Eva Longoria.

And I'm Maite Gomes-Rajon. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast, Hungry for History! On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Listen to Hungry for History on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The one you feed explores how to build a fulfilling life admits the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on emotional resilience, transformational habits, and personal growth. I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists to spiritual teachers, offering powerful lessons to apply daily. Create the life you want now.

Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. you