On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Giles Yeo: The #1 Reason You’re NOT Losing Weight (Follow THIS Diet and Start Losing Weight TODAY!)

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

Have you ever counted calories before? What’s one small change you’d like to make in how you eat? Today, Jay invites geneticist and author Giles Yeo to challenge one of the most persistent beliefs in modern health culture: the idea that all calories are created equal. Giles is a professor at the University of Cambridge, specializing in the study of how genes influence appetite and body weight. He is the author of Gene Eating and Why Calories Don’t Count, both of which challenge conventional diet myths through the lens of cutting-edge science. Giles is also a science communicator and host of the podcast Dr. Giles Yeo Chews the Fat, where he breaks down complex nutritional concepts with clarity and humor. Jay begins by asking the question on everyone’s mind—do calories really count? Giles, with a calm and science-grounded approach, unpacks why the answer isn’t so simple. While calorie counting has become a cornerstone of dieting, he explains that the way our bodies extract and process calories depends heavily on the quality of the food, not just the number printed on a label.  Giles shares how our genetic makeup influences hunger, satiety, and fat storage in ways that most diet plans fail to consider. Jay and Giles explore the emotional and social layers of eating, diving into how cultural conditioning, access to healthy food, and even marketing affect our food choices. They also examine why it's harder for some people to lose weight than others—not because of laziness or lack of willpower, but because their biology is wired differently. Giles challenges the shame-based narratives around body weight and reframes the discussion around health, sustainability, and self-awareness.  In this interview, you'll learn: How to Eat for Quality, Not Just Calories How to Read Food Labels the Right Way How to Choose Protein, Fiber, and Sugar Wisely How to Spot Diet Myths That Don’t Serve You How to Lose Weight Without Obsessing Over Numbers How to Understand Your Body’s Unique Metabolism How to Manage Cravings with a Plan, Not Willpower You don’t need to follow a strict diet or obsess over every calorie to feel better in your body. Instead, focus on nourishing yourself with real, quality foods, making small sustainable changes, and understanding how your unique biology works. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here.  What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 02:54 Do Calories Actually Matter? 03:33 Why Protein Makes Your Body Work Harder 05:12 Are You Eating More Than You Think? 07:05 Why Food Quality Matters More Than Quantity 07:56 How Processing Increases Calorie Absorption 11:04 What Really Makes Food Healthy? 12:00 When Did Obesity Become a Global Crisis? 12:52 How Fast Food Became the Default 15:05 The Real Impact of Unhealthy Weight Gain 17:45 The Macronutrients You’re Missing Out On 20:08 Are You Absorbing the Nutrients You Eat? 22:58 How Cutting Ultra-Processed Foods Affects Weight 24:59 Does Better Flavor Mean More Nutrition? 26:32 Why We Process Calories Differently 29:45 Can You Actually Target Belly Fat? 30:54 How Genetics Influence Your Body Shape 32:06 Are You Limited by Your Genes? 34:55 How to Adjust Your Diet for Real Change 38:14 The Smart Way to Read a Nutrition Label 40:53 Fried vs. Baked: What's the Healthier Option? 41:51 What Is 'Incidental Virtuous Food'? 44:52 Is Orange Juice as Healthy as You Think? 47:32 How Food Labels Can Be Misleading 49:24 The Truth About Protein Bars 51:07 3 Things to Focus on When Reading Labels 52:45 The Hidden Ingredients to Watch For  55:56 Why Weight Is About Biology, Not Willpower 58:39 Do You Really Lack Willpower? 59:11 How to Outsmart Your Cravings 01:01:29 Why “Out of Sight, Out of Mind” Works 01:04:06 Do Not Neglect Your Health as You Age 01:07:12 What You Need to Know About Appetite-Suppressing Drugs 01:11:02 The Hidden Risks of Weight Loss Medications 01:12:33 2 Truths Everyone Should Know About Healthy Eating 01:13:58 Start With This: Protein, Fiber, and Sugar 01:15:55 Giles on Final Five Episode Resources: Dr. Giles Yeo | Instagram Dr. Giles Yeo | Facebook Dr. Giles Yeo | LinkedIn Dr. Giles Yeo | X Gene Eating: The Story of Human Appetite Why Calories Don't Count: How We Got the Science of Weight Loss WrongSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to Alive Again on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Maren Morris is here. You came out of a marriage, you came out of quote unquote country music, and you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell. I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace. And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself. There were a lot of identity crises going on, but I realized I can't look back and slow down for people.

Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why is it so difficult to lose weight? Because your brain hates it when you lose weight. You're fighting biology. Dr. Jalziah, welcome. Thank you so much. So if calories is such a myth, how come so many people have used it as a strategy for weight loss? People get so obsessed with just the number that when they're cutting calories they're considering the quality of the food that they're eating. The major issue is not the quantity, it is the quality. So what truly is healthier? How do we know what healthy actually is?

Calories are not all equal. For every 100 calories of protein you eat, we are only ever able to use 70 calories. Protein counts are 30% wrong everywhere. So if you could encourage people to change part of their diet, what should they be focused on? Those are the three numbers I would use. Deploy it to your culture, your type of diet. If you actually focus on those three numbers,

your diet will automatically become healthier. So we had to go do some shopping, which my wife will be very mad at me for. I've brought things into this house that she would never allow me to have. You see here, berries. These are called incidental virtuous foods. Automatically made everyone lower their calorie estimates

by 10%. If you're predisposed because of your genetics to being overweight, are you stuck? The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed.

I'm so grateful that you tuned back in. Make sure you subscribe if you haven't already. And today's guest, I know, is going to be someone who's going to answer a lot of your questions. So grateful that you tuned back in. Make sure you subscribe if you haven't already. And today's guest, I know, is going to be someone who's going to answer a lot of your questions. We've been reading the comments. I've been reading all of the things that you've been asking about, posting about when you're sharing the podcast. And this episode is dedicated to you.

Today's guest is Giles Yeoh, a geneticist, author and professor at the University of Cambridge, where he studies how our genes influence hunger and body weight. He's the author of Gene Eating and Why Calories Don't Count. This is the book that we're discussing today. If you're listening and you're loving the information, go and grab your copy. And he's one of the leading voices in challenging diet myths through science. We all know there's a ton of diet myths out there right now.

Today we're going to bust them and Giles also hosts the podcast Choose the Fat. Go and subscribe if you haven't already. Please welcome to On Purpose Giles. Yo, Giles, it's great to have you here. Jay, thanks so much for having me. Yeah, I'm so grateful for the work you're doing and excited to be educated and illuminated, surprised today with everything you have to share. But the first thing I want to ask you that I want to dive in with you is do

calories actually matter? The book obviously says why calories don't count. Um, and every time I say that people think I'm anti-physics, but particularly the gym bros, like the guys who are all counting, counting calories, they think I'm antiphysics, but particularly the gym bros, the guys who are all counting calories, they think I'm antiphysics. I'm not antiphysics. I know that 200 calories of chips is twice the portion of 100 calories of chips. I do understand that. But so is 200 grams of chips, twice the portion of 100 grams of chips. And no one is trying to compare 200 grams of chips to 200 grams of carrots. I think ultimately that is it. So we eat food.

Our body then extracts the calories. And depending on what we eat, your body has to work more or less hard to extract the calories. So when does our body have to work more hard and when does it have to work less hard? Primarily, if food has more protein in it and if food has more fiber in it, fiber only comes from plants obviously, then your body has to work harder in order to get out the carbs, get out the fat and get everything out of there. If there's less protein and less fiber,

then your body finds it far easier to actually extract those calories, but simplistically. But that's not always good for us. No, that's not always good for us. So I think it depends why you need those calories, put simplistically. But that's not always good for us. No, that's not always good for us. So I think it depends why you need the calories, how healthy or unhealthy you are as you are actually eating to get the calories. It probably was good for us 50,000 years ago.

Why? You can imagine if you've taken down the antelope, okay, and you're sitting there and eating raw meat, okay, you've taken really a lot of energy to take the antelope and you're eating the raw meat, and so you're getting a certain amount of calories from it until someone suddenly invented fire, okay? And so when you then put the raw meat into the fire, you suddenly have a kebab, okay, and you eat it,

the cooking makes it easier for your body to extract the calories. So in that sense, for X number of energy you've taken to chase down the antelope, you're now getting more energy, more calories. So in that sense, it kept us alive. In fact, people think that at around the time when we had fire and then suddenly were able to cook food, that is when our brain began to grow more. Okay, because we then had time not to always think about food, but we could then get more energy from the food that we were currently eating. So at that point, excellent.

Today, less good. So, so if calories is such a myth, how come so many of the Jim bros or the people have used it as a strategy for weight loss for so long? You know, calorie counting has been around for a long time. It has been around since the early 1900s. There was a doctor called Lou Hunt Peters based here, Los Angeles. Okay. Los Angeles based clinician in 19, whatever the time, right after World War II, larger

lady. And she began to realize that actually she needed to lose weight. Okay. And I realized obesity wasn't a problem at the time. But she began to say that, you know what? You can't imagine yourself lighter. You have to really begin to think about how much you're eating. And so calories were a new science at the time. And what she did was she decided that, and I read the book.

It's a good book. If you look up Lulu Hunt Peters, and what she would say is, don't think about eating a slice of pie. Don't think about eating bacon. think about eating a slice of pie. Don't think about eating bacon. Think about eating a hundred calories of pie. Think about eating a hundred calories of bacon. And she published this book, New York Times bestseller, for five years running. In 1917 or something like that, she was the first calorie counter.

The thing about calories is, sure, if you are cutting calories in a balanced way, so say your diet is actually fine, but you're eating too much of the diet, hence you have obesity. Well then if you then take a sort of a balanced way of reducing your calories, it does work. The problem we have today is people get so obsessed with just the number, that calorie, 400, 500, 600, that when they're cutting calories, they are no longer cutting it either evenly, but they're also not even considering the quality of the food that they're eating. Just thinking, okay, if I only have to have 400 calories, I'm going to have it as a shake, I'm going to have it as a this, as a that, rather than thinking

more in terms of nutritional quality of the food. That is my major issue with calories. Right. So it's almost like the age-old quantity versus quality issue. Absolutely. Quantity does matter to a degree, clearly. Of course. But I think today, the major issue to my mind is not the quantity,

it is the quality. I think our diets, on average, have not improved. In fact, they've gotten worse as a quality of diet. We get far more calories now. Calories have never been cheaper in the UK, which is, which is where I'm based. You can get, um, you can get a thousand calories of chips, French fries, okay. For less than a pound. Okay.

Which is what a dollar, a buck 30 or something like that. Excuse me. Really? So it is very cheap, but are they good for you? Okay. Well, are those calories really, really matter? Are you getting all the micronutrients? Are you getting everything that you actually need? Think about the quality of the food.

The quantity matters, but it's a secondary concern to me. What is different between 500 calories of french fries? Because that's probably what it is, right? If it's fried as well and the oil and everything that you add to it, versus what would you compare that to in our head? What are the mistakes people are making when they're just calorie counting? When they're only looking at quantity, what are they comparing to be equal almost that isn't really equal from a micronutrient level?

Let me give you a more extreme example first, okay? The same food, corn on the cob, sweet corn. Now, if you had a hundred calories of corn on the cob, and then you, you looked in the blue the next day, it's quite clear. You haven't absorbed anywhere close to a hundred calories of sweet corn. But when you take sweet corn, exactly the same corn, you desiccate it, you know, you, you sort of, you turn it into a muscle. You make a corn tortilla, you make corn bread. Suddenly a far greater percentage of the calories are made available to you. But you always start it with 100 calories of sweet corn.

Okay, so that is the two thing where processing gets you more calories. Think about a steak, okay? Where you have a steak, just a normal steak, 400 calories of a steak, say you cook medium rare. So it took five minutes, eight minutes to cook. Imagine that same steak, murdered calories of a steak, say, you cook medium rare. So it took five minutes, eight minutes to cook. Imagine that same steak, murdered, okay, so you then mince it up, you put it into a ragu bolognese sauce, which you have to cook for two hours, then you layer that into a lasagna,

you cook it again for another three hours. Suddenly the same 400 calories has been cooked for three hours before you eat it. You're going to get more calories out of that. Not more than 400 calories, you just have to work very hard to get the 400 calories compared to getting something which has been cooked for three to four hours. So it's not, when you take the same food and think about how you prepared a food,

then the different calorie counts then begin to matter. The moment you then cross compare food, if you're trying to compare chips to a steak, then it's very, very difficult to do because now you're talking about there's iron in steak, you know there's obviously a lot of protein in steak, and there is some fat in steak as well, all these things that happen. Whereas if you're now looking at French fries, there's a lot of fat. Obviously there's a lot of carbohydrates. There's nothing wrong with carbohydrates. We need carbohydrates, but comparing four to 500 calories of each of them,

very, very, very different. And you're saying that most of us look at them as the same because we're looking at quantity, we're ultimately saying 500 calories of this and 500 calories of this. Now you've got to go, certainly it's true in the UK as well. I think it's true here in the US. You go to any of the big food manufacturers, not manufacturers, the restaurants, okay, big chain restaurants, and you open it up and you see the calorie counts. Now when you see the calorie counts by the meal, you're going, no, this is a thousand

calories, I don't want to eat that. Oh, wait a minute, I'm going to go with this one. It's got 800 calories, it's 200 calories. And most people just look at that and don't even really consider, well, is it 800 calories of a salad versus this? How much dressing in a salad? No one is thinking about these things when they're just comparing the 800 versus the thousand and thinking I'm going for 800 because that is

healthier because it's a smaller number. And a lot of us do this. That's the danger of obsessing over one individual number. So what truly is healthier? And a lot of us do this. That's the danger of obsessing over one individual number. So what truly is healthier? How do we know what healthy actually is? That is a very difficult question because it depends. Now, clearly, if you are a child, clearly, if you are an Olympic athlete and exercising, or if you are an old person in a hospital, in bed, you know, and you're trying very,

very difficult to absorb calories. Then from that specific scenario, you need a lot of energy that you can metabolize easily. Okay? Now, if you're Joe Schmo like me, sat on the couch, okay? Or if you're doing, or you're an office worker, well, then your needs, what is considered healthy then becomes very, very different to someone else. So what is healthy really does depend, not only on who you are in terms of your age,

your ethnicity, you know, your sex, right? But it also does matter what you're doing at the time. So it does depend. When did obesity start to become a real problem and why? It's obviously a spectrum. I don't think suddenly one day we woke up and said, ah, it's obesity. I think people began collecting numbers,

the United States in particular, in around 1984. So if you go back and look, prior to 1984, there was not a great deal of data. Obviously, some people were still collecting data. There had always been people who had obesity. This is not a unique thing, but very few. Around 1984, and coincidentally, that's also when Domino's Pizza made it to the UK. We'll leave that alone.

Okay. From that. But 1984 appears to be the ground zero for when people began to collect data. And so I think that most people accept that the mid 80s was when we began to see a problem and it's only gotten worse and worse since the mid 80s. When was the rise of fast food? When did that really begin? Do you know?

I'm intrigued now. So I think the first true, well, it depends what you mean by fast food, right? I mean, because- I mean, like when we just started to be able to go buy a burger or buy a pizza in the same way as you said. So the first of the big fast food manufacturers was obviously, well, one of the first was McDonald's. McDonald's, yeah.

Big McDonald's. And I think there's a movie about that. Oh, it's a great movie. Yeah, you know, how it's fine, how they work it out. But he didn't set out to make unhealthy food. He was setting out to make a consistent product that people could afford and enjoy to eat. Okay. And at the time, obesity wasn't a problem.

So trying to increase access to foods that at the time were only available to people with more money, you know, was a positive thing as we begin to come to value convenience more. And also oddly enough, begin to value portion sizes more. I like a big steak like anybody else, but now portion size has also overwhelming become part of the goodness of a meal. So it's very, very difficult to say, but I think it went drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, and then suddenly we're in a situation we are now. Then boosted, I want to point out, completely boosted by the Deliveroo's and Uber Eats of the World, where suddenly, where at least, okay, in fact, let's back away.

First of all, you could drive through, okay, so that was probably the first of the true conveniences. Oh, I can drive through. Okay, you don't even get out of the car. Then I think, then we obviously had the situation, then there's SuperSizeMe. There's, you know, can I, where actually was a marketing ploy where you can add that in. Then you have Deliveroo Uber Eats where now you don't have to get off your couch. I can go beep beep beep beep and someone will actually deliver the food to my door. It has been amplified. So each step has amplified it more. Till today, We're sat here. If we wanted to eat whatever, I mean, we've do it 20 minutes, suddenly we'll

have a whole fast food, you know, feast in front of us. So I think it wasn't one single thing, but each of these, each of these things suddenly increased our ability and ease of getting, of getting these foods. The foods also became cheaper. Yeah. That's the problem today. Yeah. And so since we've started measuring, we are putting on more weight.

We are. Yeah. We are, we are putting on. As a whole, on the whole, we're just pretty, humans are just putting on more weight. We are putting on more weight and not. In an unhealthy way. And exactly. And not the good weight, you know, we're not putting on, we're not putting on muscle.

Interestingly, actually, if you go back to the time when we were working more physical jobs, none of us really worked physical, you know what I mean, we're sat on our backsides and doing things. We have dishwashers and stuff like that. Actually, if you go around to the turn of the 18th to the 19th century, Victorian times, people were probably eating more calories then, actually physically more calories. But people were doing coal mining, they were working in the steel mills, and etc. etc. So they would probably be on average,

certainly in Victorian era in the UK, people were doing 3,000 average calories a day, but that's because they were coal miners, that's because they were washing clothes, that's because they were doing everything else. So we on average are probably eating fewer calories, but where they come from have really, really changed, right? The type of food we're eating.

See calories are not all equal. Yeah. And you say the body digests, obviously carbs, fats and proteins, absolutely differently. Correct. Why is that important and tell us the difference. Okay. The three things.

So these are obviously fats, the macronutrients. Okay, so fat, carbs and protein are primarily made, in fact, fats and carbs are only made of three atoms. Okay, so carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, but in different configurations. Okay, protein, however, has carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, but it's also full of nitrogen. About 16% of protein is nitrogen. So whenever our body is dealing with the stuff, it is far easy, easier for your body to digest and then metabolize, which is two different steps, right? So digestion

means the food is converted, the fat is converted to fatty acids, protein is converted to amino acids and carbs are converted to sugars, unless you're eating sugars, and then it passes across the gut wall. That is digestion. That's when that happens. Metabolism is when those individual amino acids, fatty acids, sugars, are transported to the cell, and your cell then converts it to energy. That's metabolism. So each of those two stages takes time, takes energy, and your body has to invest energy into it.

So protein is the most complicated. So for every 100 calories of protein you eat, pure protein calories, we are only ever able to use 70 calories, seven zero. So protein counts are 30% wrong everywhere because we give it off as heat, as part of the energy we put in to sorting out protein.

Fats is nearly 100% available, so to speak, because it's very, very dense. Carbs, this is where the fiber comes in. So if you have refined carbohydrates, no, if you have sugar, if you have sugar, that's 98, 99% available. Okay, so let's not ignore sugar, but sugar is a very simple carbohydrate. But if we have something starchy, Now if you had white bread, so polished, where the fiber has been stripped out, then it probably takes five calories for every hundred, so five percent, to deal with carbohydrates without fiber. Whereas if you put in fiber, if you have whole meal, if what have you, then it takes ten percent of energy to deal with it. Your body is just

dealing with it. So calorie counts are probably five to 10% wrong everywhere because of the amount of energy it takes to metabolize these macronutrients. Yeah. I think you said that you write that we absorb fewer calories from almonds. Then the packaging actually says, yes, far, far, far, far, far, far, far. Explain that. So because almonds are, you know, they, far, far fewer. Explain that. So because almonds are, you know, they're ate our whole food.

You've got to bite through them. There's obviously fiber in them. There's all kinds of things. And so what, okay. In fact, let's back away. So how do you calculate how many calories there are in a product? Okay. A guy called Atwater.

And this Atwater was a professor of biochemistry in Connecticut between 1880 and 1900. This was a while ago. He used a technique called bomb calorimetry. In effect, what you do is you take food, you burn it in a sealed container, and then you measure how much heat it gives off through this water and the temperature, so how much heat it goes up. So, one calorie is the amount of temperature it takes to raise one liter of water,

one degree Celsius at sea level. So that's a calorie. And so what he did at water dead was he took almonds, celery, carrots, steak. He burnt them and figured out how many total calories were in there. He also knew how much fat and protein he He then fed the almonds, carrots, and two people, and then he burnt their poo. Okay? For 20 years, he did this. And from there, that is where he came up with the Atwater general factor. So for all of us who have done high school biology, four calories for a gram of carb, four calories for a gram of protein, and nine calories

for a gram of fat. So that came from Atwater and what he was doing. The issue is obviously that when you actually burn all of it, everything goes away and so all the calories are there. Whereas when you have to metabolize it and it goes into your body, then your body begins to metabolize. Energy has to go in in order to extract stuff out. I'll give you another example actually, celery. Okay, now celery famously people have said your body begins to metabolize, energy has to go in, in order to extract stuff out.

I'll give you another example actually, celery. Okay, now celery famously people have said has a negative calories. That's not quite true. Okay, don't make me hate celery though, Charles. No, no, no, I'm not eating celery. So like a medium stick of celery like you might get with buffalo wings or something, right there, is probably, you may get raw, you may get six calories out of it if you're lucky. If you cook that stick, however, you chop it up, you put it into a stew,

what have you, suddenly cooking it, you get 30 calories from it. The celery. That's exactly the same stick of celery. You're not adding energy to it. It's because the fiber and everything like that is just very difficult to extract calories out. Whereas when you cook it and you process it, okay, suddenly it's easier for you to get that calorie out.

So therefore an almond, which is not a process item, right? Because the only thing you've done is you take it off the skin. Okay. And then you eat it. Now, if you make almond milk, if you, if you, if you actually put down and, and, and put an almond powder and do things like that, then you begin to get more calories out of the, out of the almond. Got it.

So I have to ask you this because every summer, a lot of people from the States will go to Europe and they'll say, I ate pasta, I ate pizza and I lost weight, but when I eat that in America, it's never going to happen. Is that true? Like, why is it that people feel when they go to Europe, they can eat all the things they can eat bread, they can eat pasta and they're not putting on weight. They're not feeling the same. I think there are probably two different reasons for it.

Okay. So I think first of all, I think they're walking more because, because when you go, when you go to Europe and you're doing things, you're not going to drive around Rome, right? I mean, you're going to be, you're going to be walking, you're going to be doing this. So I think there's a walking element here. Try and walk around here in LA impossible.

So I think there's probably that as well. But everything there is made by hand and from scratch. No, that's not a lot. That's obviously you can go to fast food places as well. But if you're going to Rome or you're going to Sicily, you're going to go to the mom and pop shop. You're going to go to what they're doing. Exactly, the local places. And so they would have cooked the food for less, they would have used other techniques.

And so things just, you are going to get less calories out because they're less processed. Processing of food. There's nothing wrong with processed foods per se, because everything that you do to a food is processed. So cooking is a process, fermentation is a process. Ultra-processing, the super-processing of food, that's another story entirely, because obviously what then happens is those are industrial processes. And I think a lot of the food that we eat, 50% of the calories, okay, that we get,

certainly in the UK as well and in the US, 50% come from pre-packaged foods, okay, are so-called quote-unquote ultra-processed foods. This is less so in somewhere like Italy. They're more likely to make the pizza from scratch. You're more likely, no one's going to serve you a frozen pizza. You're going to get it. It's going to come out of the oven. It's going to be fed to you.

The pasta is going to be dried in a specific way. That's going to be doing all kinds of things. So I think the way they make the food does matter, but you need to then take that into account that if you're on holiday in Europe, you're probably walking as well. Yeah. Yeah. No, because I think it's, you just hear it all the time. And I if you're on holiday in Europe, you're probably walking as well. Yeah. Yeah. No, because I think it's, you just hear it all the time and I'm like, wait, is this, is this real?

And even, even my wife says, I mean, when we saw the difference in water quality, even in England versus here, food quality for sure, so much bread quality, bread quality for sure, is it that everything here is being ultra processed? Is that your challenge? Like are just normal foods being like, what about tomatoes? And they taste different. But first here's a quick word from the brands that support the show. Your entire identity has been fabricated.

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Jasmine Crockett, Democratic representative of Texas, is not known for holding back. And our recent chat on Next Question is no exception. But when you hear how she got to where she is, her intensity makes perfect sense. It's just hard to imagine a world where you don't have enough people that care to do right by people. And so that same passion that carried me through as a public defender, that led me to want to change laws and thinking about the harm that will happen, not just to my constituents, but just generally like I carry that weight with me because you've seen it up close. Yeah.

Listen to next question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. All right. Thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. I remember one year I was in... When I spent more time in India,

I remember the vegetables just taste different. Like they have flavor. Whereas here, every cucumber tastes the same. You won't notice anything different. Okay, so I think the flavor really, really does matter. I think nutritionally, I mean, people say that the vegetables here, or if you grow them in a certain way, you get less nutrients from them. That's probably overstating it. I don't think that's necessary.

Interesting. I do think, however, that if you are growing vegetables, first of all using more natural techniques rather than intensive techniques, you are going to get less pesticides and less things. So just on that, that's better for you already, right? Because you're not eating so many chemicals. I do think that they are more intense in flavor. Okay.

And does flavor mean more minerals and more things? Probably a little bit of that. But ultimately, I don't think the vegetables here are bad for you. They just are not as tasty. And depending on what you're eating, I think are going to be full of pesticides and other things that we probably don't want to eat that much of. I don't think that actually there are fewer good things in the vegetables here. They just don't taste as nice.

Yeah. How is it that another thing I hear a lot is, hey, I'm eating the same exact thing as this other person over here, but they have a six pack and I can't even lose weight. Why is that happening? I'm sure you hear this too. I do. I do hear this. So there is an element of truth there that we deal with calories differently.

So there are two elements of it. So obviously you can break down why someone gains weight into a number of different things. First of all, how much do they eat? That is my expertise. That's primarily what I study. But even if you ate exactly the same thing, once it gets into you there are two elements. There's first of all, your efficiency. So in other words, for every given calorie, how many, for amount of protein, for what have you, how

efficient are you at releasing the calories? That's going to differ between you and me. That's the first thing. The second thing is what we call nutrient partitioning. So when it comes in, how much do you burn, how much do you store? And crucially, when you store it, where do you store it? And so all of those have genetic elements to it, which means that they explain differences between different people. And so undoubtedly, it's going to be a case where some people can eat more than someone else

and not actually gain as much weight. The six-pack element to it, probably overstated the six pack element would, would, would, would be obviously be a more of an exercise and thing. But yes, it is true that people can eat more and maintain the same weight as other people. Okay. And what, what do I do about that? Cause that obviously it doesn't feel good when you're like, Hey, I'm trying

to do the thing I'm trying to. I think it is not the reason for the obesity epidemic that we're facing. That is down to eating. I think that the energy expenditure and the metabolism, these things play a small role. And that we have nothing, that we, there's very little we can actually do about it, right? Because the own, interestingly,

the easiest way to increase your metabolism is to gain weight. And people think it's counterintuitive, right? But if you take a mini, a small tiny mini car, it is always going to have a lower fuel consumption than a big SUV. Okay, ultimately that's the case. So the easiest way to increase your energy expenditure is to gain weight, but then that's not the aim of the game. And the other thing is when you lose weight,

your body also reduces this metabolism, right? So that is going to be an issue. So the only way is to try and increase your metabolism temporarily. There are no foods that can increase your metabolism. Coffee probably does it briefly, okay? Chilis don't do that, okay, briefly. Exercise is probably the thing that most effectively increases your metabolism, at least temporarily. So when you're doing it, and then there's a tail off as you stop, so you're continuing burning. That's the first thing. And second is building muscle mass. Because your muscle, your lean mass, is more metabolically active than fat mass.

So you could be of the same weight, but if you have more muscle in your body as a ratio, then you will have a higher metabolism. But your underlying metabolism, if you divide your metabolism by the amount of muscle you're carrying, that cannot change. That won't change until you get older. So ultimately that's what you're trying to do. You're trying to say, well, okay, I've got a lower metabolism than you, for example, well then maybe I need to make sure I gain a bit more muscle to sort

of, to sort of mitigate against that. Got it. So how does someone get rid of that stubborn belly fat? See, that's an excellent question. And you cannot direct where you lose fat. It's very, very, very, very, very frustrating. So you know, you go to classes and there's booty busting and there's whatever you want to...

And you know what the deal is? The only way to get rid of the belly fat is to eat less and probably exercise more as well. And people are going, whatever, I'm coming onto this podcast to hear that. It is because it's physics, okay? It's difficult to do, but it's physics. No, your weight will go on to where genetically it's going to go and will come off from that. You know, what size of your boobs, what's the size of your bum, what's the size of your belly.

People wish they could direct where they get the weight loss from. I want it from my tummy. You know, for example, when I gain weight, I know I get a bit jowly. Okay. This is where it goes on first. My wife always tells me this. Why? No clue.

No clue. And it's also, it does go off first when I begin to lose weight. But so you, it's very difficult to get rid of the stubborn fat by trying to do sit-ups. But what you have to do is you do actually have to sort of shift your eating patterns in order to lose belly fat. Let's talk about the genetics piece, because I think that's the hard part. If you're predisposed because of your genetics to being overweight, are you stuck? If you are predisposed genetically to, to, to eating more because you are more driven to food for,

for a number of different reasons, then it will always be harder for you to lose weight. Okay. Ultimately that is true and there's no need to sugar coat it. But I guess the analogy I'll use is this. I will never ever be able to run as fast as Usain Bolt. Okay, because it's my genes. But it doesn't mean that if I train, I won't run faster than I do now. So I think ultimately that's it, right?

None of us here are going to become an Olympic athlete. But if we train, we'll get fitter, we'll get better. And so you've got to sort of deal with the genes you have. You can't blame it. You can blame your parents. That's where the genes have come from. But ultimately, you deal with the hand of cards you have. I wish I looked like Brad Pitt.

But there are many, many reasons why that is not going to happen. And so you deal with the hand of cards you are dealt. But even with a more difficult hand of cards, so to speak, a more difficult set of genes when it comes to being overweight. It doesn't mean that you can't do anything about it. What are you seeing in terms of gene limitations? Do you see demographics having certain gene limitations and drawbacks compared to others? Like I know as a South Asian man, generally putting on weight is easy, building muscle is hard. And a lot of South Asian men will have that conversation with each other and say,

Hey, it's, it's quite easy for us to be lean and skinny, but it's easy to put on weight around our stomach. Like you said, you put on, what do you see when you look at the genes and the genetic research? So the genes telling us why people gain weight tend to be quite universal. So they're eating too much genes. Where the different ethnicities come from comes into the consequences of gaining that weight. Yeah.

Yes. That's muscle building. That's, that's, you're right. Right. Because Chinese people, I'm ethnically, I'm Chinese. We're smaller framed individuals. We too cannot get that much weight, gain that much weight before we actually tilt into disease.

So, but the genes underlying why we eat are quite universal. But why we get specific diseases? Very, very genetically driven, very ethnically driven. As you said, South Asian, East Asians, the moment we don't have to go anywhere close to a BMI of 30, and we are suddenly increasing our risk of a number of different metabolic diseases. So we compared to white people who can always gain a bit more weight compared to Polynesians, a colleague of mine actually, I was in New Zealand giving a lecture, and I saw there's

a big South Asian diaspora in New Zealand. And so I saw a diabetes doctor who is South Asian giving a talk in which she was comparing BMI and rates of type two diabetes in the local Polynesian population versus the South Asian diaspora. And the local Polynesian population could get to something like nearly twice the BMI before actually reaching the same risk of type two diabetes.

It is down to, I guess, how much muscle you can put on, a little bit. It's down to how much fat we all can store safely. And so that is a crucial bit of information. How much fat can you store safely? Can I store safely? The safest place to store fat is in your fat cells, okay? They're like balloons, they get bigger, they get smaller. You don't gain fat cells. Boop, boop, boop, boop.

But they get full. And the moment they get full, that's when the fat goes into your liver, your muscles, places that are not designed to store fat in large amounts, and that's when you become ill. So that, very, very genetic. And it also comes to body shape. Where you put your fat also matters, right?

Because then you can look at different populations and realize, oh my God, all these people are completely different shapes. They are. Because where you put your fat also influences how much fat you can store safely. So that bit, very genetic. Yeah. So if you could encourage people to change part of their diet, what should they be focused on? And what are the mistakes that you think people are making right now when it comes to what we eat, what should they be focused on and what are the mistakes that you think people are making right now? When it comes to what we eat, what we put into our mouths, what are the mistakes people are making and what would you encourage people to think about differently if it isn't calories? Then it is very, very culturally specific. But I think there's probably some universal rules in order to follow. You know, like a lot of South Asians, I mean, there are a lot of vegetarians in South Asia,

people in the Mediterranean eat Mediterranean diet, try delivering a Mediterranean diet to Texans, that's just not going to happen. So culturally, it does make a difference. I do think there's some relatively simple, quote unquote, rules, I hate to use the word rules. I think we need to eat enough protein, I think most importantly.

So I think about 16% of the energy in your diet needs to come from protein. It is possible to eat too much because we have to use the protein we eat. If we don't use it, we don't store protein. Okay. All the muscles in us, all the protein in our body is active. So if you eat a lot of protein, but don't use it, it gets converted to fat. Okay. And then it begins to stress out your kidneys and stuff as well, right?

And your liver. Unless you're lifting or doing something else. So 16% protein, okay? We need to eat way more fiber. Way more fiber. We need to double the amount of fiber we eat. Fiber only comes from fruit and vegetables, so we pretty much need to double the amount of fruit and vegetables

that we actually eat. And we probably need to limit the free sugars we eat. Now, free sugars are sugars, sugar. Anything that's been detached from fiber. So orange juice is a free sugar. Honey is a free sugar. Maple syrup is a free sugar. We probably need to... All the good stuff. All the good stuff. But the sugar is all the same. It tastes nicer for any number of different reasons, but all the good stuff. You probably need to limit it to 5% of energy or less.

Now, if you take those three numbers, right? 16% of protein, 30 grams, double the amount of fiber, and keep the free sugars. You can eat as much fruit and vegetables as you want, but fruit sugars are 5% and less. You can deploy it to any culture. Because the protein, I'm not only talking steaks, right? I mean, this is what people think here when I say protein steaks.

But no, I mean, tofu, beans, it doesn't matter the source of the protein. Those are the three numbers I would use. Deploy it to your culture, your type of diet you wish to actually eat. Then obviously you can tweak it. But I think if you actually focus on those three numbers, I think it's, your diet will automatically become healthier. So 16% protein, 30% fiber. 30 grams fiber.

30 grams fiber. So double the amount of fiber. Where on average, on average in the United States and North America, United States and in the UK, we're probably only having 15 grams of fiber a day. It's difficult. I think this is part of the problem of, of, of focusing on calories is that I, what does that mean when I tell you 16% protein and what have you? So I, I do these things.

I speak to, to people like you. I speak to industry. I do this to try and push back and say, can we highlight different things on your pre-packaged food? I mean, highlighting the calories useless, right? Whereas if you highlight how much protein it is, how much, you know, fiber is in there, how much free sugars in a traffic light system or something. I think that's easier for you to actually, to actually do.

Let's actually talk about that. So we had to go do some shopping, which my wife will be very mad at me for, because I've brought things into this house that she would never allow me to have in the house. Okay. And so I've got to make sure that I give this out to someone else afterwards. Don't give it to me. If she thinks I've been eating it, she'll be mad.

But we brought in some products that people are eating because I think partly the issue is when you go out and you buy something, once you're educated. So my wife trained me in this and I want to help pass it on and learn from you as well in how to actually read food labels. Because I used to just be like, yeah, that's 50 calories. I'll have that. That's 100 calories. It's easy. So I'm going to throw you some products and you can tell us whether this is actually healthy or not and just walk us through all the packaging on the front and the back. So a couple of things about this. So before we start, I think I see where this is going.

things about this. So before we start, I think I see where this is going. One of the things that annoys me the most about food and advertising for food is the health halo. Right? This is what we're talking about, the health halo. No one thinks that drinking Coca-Cola and eating thingies is healthy for you, but we do it because it's a treat, we do it. But I'm not thinking I'm having a health drink. And so most of us take the precautions. Now if you know one thinks that when you get a many tortilla chip brands are available let's look at this one. First of all it's green in packaging it has this I am green okay from all the things. Okay, tortilla style protein chips. What the freaking hell is that? Let's see where the protein comes from. Okay, I don't

know. Does it tell you where the protein comes from? They added milk protein isolate whey protein. So they're trying to increase the amount of protein you actually get and so hence they're telling you that this is a healthier option. But you're still eating a tortilla chip, right? If you look at the... It's still fried, right? It is. Let's have a look at the back here.

I'm not... It should be fried. I mean, sometimes they bake it, I guess. But tortillas tend to be fried. Oh, this one says it's baked. Okay. So that does make a difference. But it is still a, it is still a, but they're trying to sell this as a health food.

Okay. And you would say it's not a health food. I don't, I am not anti tortilla chips, but I know why they've done the packaging as they've done here. So people will go and say, oh, these are the terrible with the tortilla chips. I'm going to buy this one because these are going to be tortilla chips that are going to be better for me because it's in a green packaging and because it says, oh, these are the terrible tortilla chips. I'm going to buy this one because these are going to be tortilla chips that are going to be better for me because it's in a green packaging and because it says high protein, high protein for it.

So, I don't know, you know, it's still a tortilla chip. Yeah. And ultimately, so this is the kind of thing. What is the difference between baked and fried? Because I don't, I speak to a lot of people about this and I don't think they, people even think to think about that. So baked would mean that you use less oil. Okay.

And because things like tortilla chips and potato chips and all the kinds of things you get are very porous. So in other words, they absorb a lot of fat to crisp up. Okay. A fried tortilla will taste better than a baked tortilla. So undoubtedly they'll have, they'll have more, more, more fat. I'm not saying that this isn't slightly better for you. It's still not a health food though.

So that's the difference. The difference is that when you fry something, more of the fat gets absorbed into it. Whereas you bake it, you sort of, you do put oil in it. You have to because otherwise, it's like using an air fryer. Why do you use an air fryer? You use an air fryer because you put in a little bit of oil. It then heats up the oil and then mists the oil.

So that what you're doing is you're frying with less oil. That's why you're getting, you're getting less of the fats that, that, that, that are actually out there. Got it. Okay. I'm going to pull out some more. We had a lot of bags of chips in here, but let me see this one. Oh, all right. So this is shredded wheat. Okay, let's have a look at this actually. Now they're always, oh, wait a minute. This is, so if you look at, so a couple of things before we go to the back, whenever you look at a cereal, you see here, for example, in the front, berries.

All right. No one ever does that. No one ever does it. I mean, I have shredded, I'm not, I'm not against this, but I eat it. Do you know what these things are called? Within the field of sort of food science, these are called incidental virtuous foods. Okay?

So someone did an experiment where what they did was they asked a few thousand people, alright, and they put a burger, just a normal standard burger, and they asked everyone to sort of estimate how many calories are in the burger. And, you know, obviously you get people getting it right. People getting it completely wrong. Then they took the burger and they put a stick of celery next to the burger. That stick of celery, same burger, that stick of celery automatically made everyone lower on average, their calorie estimates by 10%.

Just the presence of it. Now, if you, in fact, we'll go back to that. We'll go back to the chip. Okay. So here is a tortilla chip and obviously there is lime, there's chili. I appreciate they probably flavored it for some, nevertheless, but here cereal is one of these things. That is why the berries are there.

Go into your favorite supermarket. Look, anything you buy. Once again, this is not anti-shredded wheat. Okay. Anything you buy, they'll always have these things because it automatically makes it a virtuous food. Why do people, when you watch an advert or something, Why is there a little bit of coriander, a bit of watercress, you know, over the steak? Like, really? Incidental virtuous foods. Okay. So that's the first thing to note. Really great note.

Now, if you want to look in the back, let's look at the sugar. I mean, this may be perfectly healthy. I'm not entirely sure. Okay. So this has no added sugar, which is fine, which is good. So I do think that that's the one thing you want to look at. So that's when we're reading a label. When you're reading a label, what do you want to focus on?

Now, clearly this is shredded wheat. I'm not eating this for protein. Okay, so you can look at the back of the protein, but the amount of protein on here, where does it say? Polyunsaturated, where's the protein? I bet you there's a... Oh no, there is protein here. So 7 grams of protein, that's quite high. Surprisingly a... Oh no, there is protein here. So seven grams of protein. That's quite high.

Surprisingly high for the amount of stuff that is here. What you want to do, however, on this is not worry too much about the protein because you're eating a shredded wheat, is to look at the sugar. Because, oh my God, I mean, if you actually look at some of the cereals, including some varieties of shredded wheat, you may as well be eating a chocolate bar, as far as I can gather, the amount of sugar that's in there.

So this, you would look at it and broadly speaking, it's probably a relatively healthy thing to eat. Got it. Except for the incidental virtue sweets. Alright, very good. Well, you spoke about this earlier, so let's take a look at it. Who might as well? Okay, OJ.

Now, what makes it light? Very interesting. So let me just- Yeah. What does it say on it? Tell us. It's an orange juice with 50% less sugars and calories than OJ. Then how did they make it?

Because OJ is OJ. OJ should be OJ. You should take juice, you squeeze it out. Maybe you put some heat in it to, to make sure it lasts longer. What have they done to it to reduce the amount of sugar and calories? Ah, so what they've done here, first of all, is they have concentrated the orange juice. So in other words, they have just, this is an effect orange juice mixed with water.

So can I say something? Can I please say something? Save your cash, buy an actual bottle of, if you want to drink orange juice, buy an actual bottle of orange juice and dilute it with water. Same effect. Because it says here, the first thing on here is filtered water. First ingredient list.

It's fine. Okay? But now you're buying half the amount of orange juice for the same amount of cash, whereas you could buy exactly the same amount of orange juice and use water. Now what else is there? Okay. Now let's have a look. No pulp.

Why is this a good thing? So here's the issue with OJ, right? So OJ, the full concentrated OJ, has the same effect. We'll read it out just to make sure. So total carbohydrates here are 10%, okay? So 5%, so it has 5% because it's half. Coca-Cola has a sugar content about 11% Okay in a can of Coca-Cola. So OJ actually has the same amount of sugar as Coca-Cola. This is diluted We've already established this and it's the same sugar. It's not because it's natural sugar. It's healthier for you

You squeeze it out of the orange. So the pulp was the only good thing about this I mean, there's probably vitamin C and stuff, but this the pulp was the only good thing about this. I mean, there's probably vitamin C and stuff, but the pulp was the only good thing because that was the fiber. So what this has said is that we have made extra sure there is no fiber in this orange juice. That's what this is telling you. Okay? I have no problems with OJ as a small thing, but people think it's a health food

and people will then drink a ton of this. And you have to treat it like you're drinking a high sugar drink. Eat the orange. Because when you eat the orange, you're chewing it, there's fiber, your body takes longer to release the sugar. Exactly the same amount of sugar, because orange juice actually comes from there. You get a lot more goodness out of eating the orange. If you have to drink orange juice, drink, you know, do it in moderation.

This is a waste of money because, as it says in the back, it's diluted orange juice for Pete's sake. So, so, so, so, so this is useful. All right. All right. This is fun. Let's do this one. Because this

These are great. Where did you get these from? I like this one because this. These are great. Where did you get these from? These are all from, I won't say. Now, no, just can I please say, dried apricots, these are wonderful for you. Okay, because obviously they're full of fiber. And yeah, you might say, well, and they're high in sugar. Yeah, but then they're all tied up in the fiber there and how much risk are you really gonna eat anyway wonderful for you okay you shouldn't need to enhance it

with any probiotic apricots now what have they made it so me so probiotic means that's prebiotic and that's probiotic and prebiotic is adding fiber probiotic is taking the bugs. Because this is what confused me when I was looking at this. So this is probiotic because they've taken normal apricots, which is full of fiber, and added bacteria. Now this sounds a bit dodgy because they're telling me that the bugs cannot be alive. I don't think. Because they're in this thing. What is the shelf life of this? Okay looks like. Okay. March, 2026. It's sterile, right? In here.

So they say they've put the bugs in, but the bugs cannot be alive. So it is not going to be probiotic if the bugs are dead. And they have to be dead because this thing is not going to rot in a sealed container and it's good till March, 2026. So this, the bugs have got to be alive. When you're eating yogurt, if you're eating, you know, kombucha, the bugs are alive. That is why they work. Because they pass, you need those actually to survive the gut and go in, in order to survive.

These are dead bugs. They won't work. Completely BS. Interesting. Wow. Wow. I love how shocked you are right now. They won't work. Completely BS. Interesting. Wow. Wow. I love how shocked you are right now. Alright, let's do this as the last one because we've done all the other versions of this.

Okay, let me just see what the back is. Preserving, so 65 grams. Holy cow. Alright, so this is a bar. Now I know what this is. This is for the Jimbrose, right? But if you actually look at the, first of all, it tells you the amount of protein.

So they're selling this as a health food bar by its very definition, because we're not dealing with it. But if you actually look at the back, yes, there's more protein in it, okay, for that. But it's 22% sugar. It's 22% sugar, okay? 14% fat, of which 13% is saturated fat.

Okay, and the protein amount is 13% protein. So actually, I'm saying we need 16%. It's already below the actual what you should be eating in your total diet anyway. I don't understand this bar. I do understand it if you are taking it as a recovery bar. Fair, okay. If you have just done a workout or if you're maybe a cycling, you're trying to do that.

I can dig that. The problem is if it's there in a supermarket shelf and you're coming in thinking, this is going to be healthy for me, but you're not working out. You're not doing any, you buy and eat it. This is far worse for you than eating a chocolate bar, unless you're exercising at the same time. Yeah. So that's high.

22. It's really high So that's high. 22. It's really high. It's high. Oh my God. Is this even edible? I mean, I used to, so I used to eat those nearly every day until I looked at the back. No, no, no. Until I looked at the back.

Then you went, dude. Yeah. And I realized even when I am working out, I don't need that. No, you don't need 22% sugar. I mean, yeah. You want, you want more protein probably actually than that. I've shifted to one that does only one gram of sugar now. Because you do need some sugar.

You need some carbs. Obviously you do. But not that. Yeah, not that. Good analysis. So, so walk us through two questions I have. Yes. One is how can people read food labels better?

Okay. What were you doing that was making it effective for you to figure it out that quickly? Because the challenge is we have little time. We look at the back, there's like 50 ingredients. The major problem I have with this is this isn't a lack of information problem because all the information is there, but you need bright lights. I need to have my reading glasses with me. But what you would do, I think ultimately in order to better do it, the industry

needs to change what they label, but I don't have the power to do that. So I think what I would do is I would focus on first of all, the amount of, depending on what you're eating, the amount of protein, the amount of fiber, do they put fiber? They do put fiber, the amount of fiber that's actually in there and the amount of sugars. Protein, fiber, sugar.

Protein, fiber, sugar. Those are three things to look at. Yes. And what you don't want is to see an equal balance of all three. You want to try and see the percentages you said earlier. Exactly. Yeah. That's what I would do.

Yeah. And of course it won't be, you're not expecting to get all your protein from a bar anyway. No. So I think what you want to do as well is not concerned, okay, not obsessed about one item of food. What you should do is be thinking about your diet over a week. A week's a good period because there are work days, there are weekend days.

You may have a birthday, you go to a restaurant for your friends and you're eating on the run or what have you. So over a week, how much protein fiber and things have you been eating? That's better because then that allows you to go to the pub, the restaurants, your child's birthday. And then they say, well, I had my child's birthday party last night, so I'm going to do something else. So you need to consider that, but over the context of a full week, rather than obsessing

over one individual bar would be what I would say. And what are the three hidden ingredients that you think people should watch out for on food labels? I think sugar is probably the big, the biggest thing to look for because they, my wife sent me to the supermarket to buy because can you get me some beetroot? I want to make a salad. Okay. And so I went into a supermarket chain in the UK and I bought their finest, because I'm a mug, okay, I bought their finest item. And I brought it back and she yelled at me. She goes, did you see the amount of sugar on here? Why didn't you get the one made with vinegar?

Why did you get the one? And so sugar is the thing that they shuffle in the most because it's so, it improves the flavor so quickly and they put it into beetroot. It's a beetroot. Why do you have to boil it in sugar? It's completely ridiculous. Sugar is probably the biggest, it's the easiest thing to shovel in.

So to watch that. How addictive is sugar? I don't think sugar is addictive. I don't think there is such a thing as food addiction. If you speak to addiction biologists, they do hijack certain pathways. Okay. Which ones? So the part of the brain that makes things feel nice, your rewarding part of the brain, it's the same part of the brain for everything. It doesn't matter if we're talking about food,

sex, or drugs, or alcohol. It hits the same place. The roots to it are different, but it's the same part of the brain. And so I think that clearly sugar tickles the nice part of the brain, because why would it not? But it is not crack cocaine. People say it's worse for you than crack, but it isn't. Okay, because you clearly get used to it, you like it, there are addictive behaviors,

but sugar in of itself is not addictive. If I took sugar away from you, you're not going to go into cold turkey. Okay, you're not. You might think, I want to eat that and what have you. You're not. So it's not addictive, but we need to eat less of it. And clearly there is an addictive behavior of getting used to eating sugars as well. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

Welcome to the You vs You podcast. I'm Lex Burrow and every week we sit down with some of the biggest names in entertainment to talk about the real stuff. The struggles, the doubts, and the breakthroughs that made them who they are. We go deep, flowing childhood trauma, family, overcoming loss, and the moments that shaped their journey. These honest conversations are meant to take the cape off our heroes, with the hope that their humanity inspires you to become a better you and therefore set you free to live the life of your dreams.

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to talk to Logan Urie. Logan is a dating expert, a behavioral scientist, a bestselling author, and someone who is seriously changing the way we think about love and dating. In our conversation, we talk all things dating, that Logan has studied and tested from what to put in your dating profile, the pictures you should and shouldn't be using, to the conversation starters that actually work, and the huge no-nos that people probably do not realize are reducing their chances of success on apps. Whether you're single, dating,

or just trying to be more intentional in love, Logan offers the kind of clarity we all need. Relationships do require work and the best relationships are people who really work on them together. They're so focused on, if I find the perfect person, then I'll have the perfect relationship. Instead of understanding really that they can choose someone great

and then build that relationship together. They don't need to keep searching for perfection. Listen to a really good cry on the iHeartRatio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And back to our episode. Is healthier food more expensive to produce? No. Or is it, what is the reason that healthy food has become expensive?

So I think there's a marketing element to it. So therefore healthy food, they can make money from it. But then what then happens is there are cultural differences as well. Right? Because then what happens is people say lentils are cheap, which is true, but that's a culturally specific thing. If you go to India, you go to South, everyone knows how to cook lentils. So lentils are cheap because everyone can do it, but other things are not here, okay,

here or in the UK for that matter. First of all, do people know how to cook lentils? We're not South Asian, for example, that's the first thing. The second is it will always require half an hour on the electricity or gas. And it's always cheaper to stick a pre-meal into the microwave and put two minutes in order to do it.

So you have to take the whole life cycle of the food and also the amount of time and effort and education you actually have about that specific food. So it's a holistic view of how expensive something is. Yeah. It could be expensive in terms of time as well. Exactly. Yeah. Some people don't, some people don't have the time and culturally it does make a

difference because like lentils are cheap obviously, and, And you go to some countries that they... Exactly. Those are, but if you buy them from scratch, you need to know how to soak them overnight. You need to then boil them for an extra period of time. And if this is part of your culture and you always have a, you always have beans pre-ready to cook and everything is ready, perfect. And you have the spice mix ready, perfect. But for a lot of us, that's not the case. Great answers. That was fun. I'm glad we did that. That was really cool. I wanted to ask about this idea of you say that weight is biology, not laziness. Let's talk about that.

Okay. I think weight is more biology than people think. How about that? Okay. So if we actually look at the genetics, heritability. Okay. So what percentage does genetics actually play into body weight? And we can use that by looking at twins, identical twins and non-identical twins.

Then actually the heritability of fat mass, of weight, is around 40 to 70%. So in other words, let's take the average, 50-50. So 50% is going to be driven by biology and 50% by non-biology. And in the non-biology, it could be socioeconomic status, how rich or poor you are, it could be your culture, it could be any number of different things. So weight is probably about 50%. Now within that 50%, it does play a pretty powerful role.

And I guess the one example I'll give is this. We do not gain or lose weight overnight, we just don't. Any meal, no matter how big, is not gonna possibly change your body weight. Your body weight is the function of thousands of feeding events that have happened over the past couple of years. Now imagine, however, if because of your genetic hand

of cards that you've been given, you are slightly less likely to say no. 5%, best kind of scale we're looking at. So one out of every 20 times you say, hang it, I'm gonna have the extra slice slice of pizza or what have you. 5% over thousands of feeding events is hundreds of thousands of calories. So over the period of time that food intake does begin to influence your body weight, it is not a choice.

In casino terms, the house will always win if the die is weighted a certain way. In that sense, there is a lot of biology, but clearly, if you take the top 20% socioeconomically versus the bottom 20%, the bottom 20% are more than twice and as likely to have obesity and most diseases to be fair as the top 20%. There's no genetic difference between rich and poor people. It's an accident of birth. And so there, your environment really, really,

really does matter. So even with the same genes, the same genetic burden and drive, if I live in a leafy Cambridge village, which I live so far out that the delivery won't deliver to my village, and so this is a true story, okay, then if I'm hungry and I don't have a corner shop,

I have to drive to the next village, if I'm hungry and I just, I don't have a corner shop, I have to drive to the next village. If I'm hungry on a Sunday night, well, either I have to get in my car and drive somewhere, or I have to open my fridge and eat the carrots or almost just my fridge, right? Whereas if I lived in a city, if I live above a chicken shop, if I live above, then exactly the same genetic drive will make me go and I'll make different decisions, the different things that we made. So there's a huge genetic drive undoubtedly, but the environment also matters. How much is willpower involved?

What is willpower? What is it? I think willpower is an interesting term. I think that if we're talking about food intake, which means to say that, oh, I'm not going to eat the chocolate bar or pizza or something today, I think willpower is simply the physiological manifestation of how much you want that item of food and whether or not you say yes or no.

So willpower is simply part of the biology that drives you or stops you from eating it. So that's what I think is willpower. So if that plays a role, yes, willpower plays a role because it's part of your biology. It's almost like a sense of, I like the word discipline more. So as someone who grew up eating, and I've spoken about this on the show before, I literally grew up eating every day, a chocolate bar, a chocolate biscuit, a chocolate yogurt, and a chocolate

ice cream every day. Okay. Because that's how I was raised in my house. Yeah. And I was overweight growing up. And then in my teens, I started playing a lot of sports. I lost lots of weight. And, but then still, even when I was at university, I drank a sugary

soda every single day and had a chocolate bar every day. And because of my genetics or my metabolism, I was lean throughout college and all the rest of it, but I wasn't doing anything healthy. And what I found was that I had to create discipline at one point in my life, because my natural instinct is to want sugar to solve my fatigue or energy or whatever it may be. Because that's what I've been taught or at least trained to believe is that sugar will solve my lack of energy right now, not realizing that actually I could get that from a healthier place. I mean, I guess discipline is one is one way.

I mean, I don't like the term lifestyle. A lot of people call it a lifestyle problem because lifestyle means choice. But I do think that many of us need to make behavioral changes. So that's the terminology I'd like to use because ultimately this is the issue. It doesn't matter whether or not the genetic drives makes it easier or less easy for you to lose weight. It doesn't matter. Ultimately, because if you carry too much fat, you're the one that's going to suffer, right?

So I think life's unfair, okay? And sometimes biologically unfair and what have you. So I think what we've got to do is, for a lot of us, we do need to think about behavioral changes. And you're absolutely right. We need to be more educated about certain things. We need to... Just this conversation we've had, right? I mean, just look... Looking at these things.

And if you then begin to notice... So just this conversation we've had, right? I mean, just look, looking at these things. And if you then begin to notice. So even just what I've said, if you notice a couple of these little things and you incrementally make a better, you buy a better bar, you buy a better, you know, bag of chips or anything like that. But then that's a positive thing.

These are behavioral changes, but we need to sort of get the word out there, right? Where it's not always, There's the obvious things, but the not obvious things also matter. I think for me, one of the behavioural changes that has helped so much is out of sight, out of mind. Well, you just said, like when you walk in and look at your refrigerator and there's only carrots and hummus. Like I said, like I bought this bag in today for this episode, but we wouldn't have this available.

So do I want those chips? Of course I want tortilla chips. I would rather eat tortilla chips than any Whole Foods because that's what I'm conditioned to want. But when they're not available in our snack drawer, you know, then I have to think, I've got to wait 20 minutes. So, so now that is very true, right? So I think we have to control the environment we have control over, which

broadly speaking is our household. And so same for me, my wife bans me from buying. So she loves chocolate. And she, I mean, me, me chocolate, I like chocolate, but if there was a chocolate bar there, for example, I would eat a piece and then I would continue talking to you. Yeah, I couldn't do that. I need the whole thing. Yeah. So my wife says, please don't buy chocolate in the house. So if we go to a restaurant, we go to a meal, that's different, right? Because we're outside, but within our house, like you said, there are no, and I love crisps, so I don't buy crisps in the house because I know that if it's

there and I hear the rustling, I'll eat it. Out of sight, out of mind is a good way of handling it. Yeah, that's been one big thing for me. And the other one that's really helped me is having a plan for when that craving comes. Strategy! Yeah. Strategize! Right?

Like rather than feeling like, oh, you know, I'm in a good discipline mode. I'm not going to have the craving comes. Strategy, strategize. Rather than feeling like, oh, you know, I'm in a good discipline mode. I'm not going to have the craving today. It's like, no, I know that at 8 PM at night, I'm going to get a craving. And so let me have a plan B option available that is healthier, better, more natural, than putting myself into grabbing one of the ultra processed foods.

So whenever I talk to people and then someone come up to me and whatever their genetic drive, they says, oh, you know, I need to lose weight. How would you do it? I said, look, if you know, you need to lose weight for whatever reason, then what you've got to do to the easiest thing to do. Okay. Don't go take a genetic test. Anything like that. It's free. Okay. Is be honest with why you eat when you eat. And some people eat when they get stressed, other people don't. Some people have a craving for chocolate at 8 o'clock.

Understand this. And the moment you understand that, put a strategy in place to kind of mitigate against that. And that is your way into dealing with your biology. Don't worry about the fact that, well, when I go to my friend's house, anything like that, that's fine, because you live in your house. So fix your house first.

Then everything else you can kind of, you can kind of take it day by day. Fix what you have in your house. Absolutely. Those two things have helped me out of sight, out of mind and making sure that I have a plan for the things I know are going to happen, not hoping that they don't happen. Yeah, exactly. Don't lie to yourself. Do not lie to yourself.

Yeah, exactly. Because yeah, it's, I've lied to myself too many times and then ended up overeating or over sugaring or whatever it may be because I didn't have a plan. And so I fell to my devices. I was intrigued to something you write about is why is it so difficult to lose weight? Because your brain hates it when you lose weight. So it thinks I'm losing weight. this is lowering my chances of survival. In a world where there's not enough food, this is not true now, but in a caveman brain

that is actually dealing with this thinking, I'm losing weight, I need to put the weight back on. And so your brain does everything in its power. It does two things. It makes you hungrier, as you know, when anyone who's dieted, you feel hungry. And more insidiously, because this you don't know, it lowers your metabolism. Okay? So imagine if I were... I'm an 80 kilo human being, okay? Imagine if I used to be 90 kilograms and I've lost, so I've lost 10% of my body weight, okay?

The previously... that me, who lost 10% of the weight versus me, never been 90 kilos. He has to eat less than me to maintain the same weight as me. Okay? 80 and 80, but he used to be. Because he's lost that weight and the brain is trying to drag him back, kicking and screaming back up to the weight he was before. Your brain hates it when you lose weight and it puts into homeostatic measures, it's all to make sure you gain the weight back then. So that's why you're literally working against...

It's very depressing. I know it's very depressing, but it's... Yeah. You're fighting biology. Yeah. And as we get older, we're putting on more weight naturally. You do for a couple of different reasons. I think I would have given you a different answer five years ago, but new work has shown that actually you don't begin to drop your metabolism

per gram of muscle in you. All right. Just to be clear. So in other words, how much muscle you're carrying really to your mid sixties. So people thought it happened earlier. It doesn't. Okay. The problem is when you get into middle age, okay. Is this, first of all, we tend to get richer, not rich, but richer. We're sat on our backsides. We have more money. We have more money. We don't, we eat richer food. We're not going to eat less, right? We're moving less. We tend to exercise less.

I'm sorry. That's true. Which means that your muscle mass begins to, begins to lower. So a mix of all that, you have more money, you eat better food, you exercise less. Okay. And that is the toxic mix that then ends up with you gaining weight, middle-aged bread, et cetera, et cetera. How do we stop that?

I think the most important thing, if we, if we're dealing with actually zeroing in, clearly we can say we need to improve our diets and things, this is all true. The most important thing about health span rather than longevity, right? Who the hell wants to live forever, you know, with tubes and you just don't. Okay. But people want to live healthy for longer. The marker that most predicts your health span is the amount, your percent, your ratio to muscle, to fat heading into your late 60s and into your 70s. It doesn't matter very many, clearly how heavy you are matters, but more importantly, how much muscle are you taking into the period of time.

The more muscle lean mass you actually have, going in particular into your 70s, the healthier you're likely to be. So do not neglect, do not neglect moving and keeping your muscles in shape. Particularly as you get older. And that is the way to fight all the bad things that can happen. Yeah. What's really interesting is that as a society, I feel like we've been struggling with weight loss for so long.

And that's where we've obviously seen the rise of weight loss drugs and especially more recently with Ozempic and it's become commonplace now, it seems at least, I don't know in the UK, but definitely in the States and people are open about their usage. There's a debate over whether it's good or bad and people have different views on it for different reasons. But there has been this almost pressure that we've placed on people, not always from a health point, but from a vanity point to lose weight. Whereas what we're talking about today is a healthy... We're talking about health. And I think, look, there is nothing wrong with these drugs as long as the right people get them.

I think ultimately that's true. Now if you have a lot of fat, you have you know you have severe obesity, then the drug is for you because you're ill. You are getting diabetes, the drug is for you. The drugs are not a cosmetic drug. So these drugs are modified gut hormones. They're modified versions of natural hormones that we actually have. So in one way of looking at things, we could say that, well, I've only tweaked one hormone in your body and suddenly you eat less. Then you can argue that a lot of people with obesity probably just have a hormonal deficiency that you're trying to fix. However, the reason these drugs are good is because they're powerful and they work.

The reason these drugs are bad is because they're powerful and they work for everybody. They make you feel fuller whether or not you're 300 pounds looking to lose a hundred or whether or not you are a 16 year old girl who's 75 pounds. That is the problem. It will still make you eat less. So they're not cosmetic drugs. They're powerful drugs. They should be used as drugs, not at the red carpet tool.

So you're saying that there are a group of people who it's healthier for them to use it and there's a group of people that shouldn't be using it. Correct. Because I think everyone who needs the drug should get the drug. And these are people who, in fact, there's more nuance about this. At the moment, certainly in the UK, there are rules where, about how, what your BMI, what your weight should be before you're allowed the drug. And it's above a certain amount, etc., etc. We've already discussed, for example, that South Asians and East Asians, we can't get

that much weight before we get risk of disease. So we need to be more nuanced about who gets the drug. And the person, the people that get the drug need to be closing in on their disease state. Okay? They should get the drug. Okay? So in other words, you could be a little bit heavier, but actually be perfectly Okay? They should get the drug. Okay? So in other words, you could be a little bit heavier, but actually be perfectly healthy. Do you need the drug?

Right? Whereas maybe a South Asian man who's BMI 27, but actually is already close to being type 2 diabetic, maybe he should get it. So I think at the moment, people draw a line in the sand about your BMI. I think we need to be more, in fact, just talking about obesity in general, we need to be more nuanced. Yeah. It's really hard because people will say, well, I feel more confident now that

I've taken it and you know, I feel better about myself now that I've taken it. I mean, okay. As a, as a game, if we game it in our head, do I see if these drugs were shown to be fully, fully, fully, fully safe over a long period of time? And broadly speaking, we know over a long period of time. And broadly speaking, we know the right people will get it. Can I or do I think that if I can walk into a drugstore, because at the moment, for example, we go in and buy Tylenol, okay?

We give it to our kids, right? Now we also know that if I had a whole bottle of Tylenol, I may endanger my liver. Okay, so there, right? It can be toxic as well, but now society has accepted that this is something that we can choose to self-medicate with without a prescription. If we can get to that level of safeness for these weight loss drugs, why not, I guess? Please. I am not saying we will get there, and I'm not saying it's possible to get there for

the reasons which I've told you. But I think as a principle, I don't mind doing that as long as it's safe and only the right people get it. Those are the two critical things. What are the dangers of weight loss drugs like Ozempic? Like what are the actual ramifications? The ramifications are the wrong people get anything very rarely. I think that there are certain things that could happen extremely, extremely rarely. The

biggest danger is the people who are taking it for cosmetic reasons and don't have a lot of fat to lose and take too much of it. And then what then happens is they don't lose too much weight. And what are they damaging? What are the consequences? Because what these drugs do, because they make you feel fuller. That the drugs itself don't do a great, you know, they have positive effects to the drugs, they just make you eat less. So if you are already skinny and take it, you are in effect starving yourself.

That's the one thing. Starvation is not a good thing, okay, for that. Now equally, if you take the drug and don't improve your diet, because these drugs also don't improve your diet, they just make you feel full. So if your diet was crap to begin with and you were eating chips and Oreos all the time, what these drugs will do is to make you eat less chips and Oreos. And so actually what happens is you could end up malnourished. So even yes, you're losing weight because you're now eating calorie-wise less food. So I'm losing weight. Look at me. I'm good. But then if that's all you're eating, you're not doing your fiber, your protein and all that jazz, right? And

micronutrients, then you're going to be skinny and malnourished at the same time on the drug. So the drug is a silver bullet for the feeling full of it. It doesn't improve your behavior. It doesn't improve your diet. It doesn't stop people from not taking it who shouldn't be taking it. So I'm pro drug for the people who need it. Got it. Really, I appreciate that.

I wanted to ask you this question because I think you've alluded to it, but if you could put a warning label on one part of the diet industry, what would it be? I can, I have two things. Yeah. So I think, I think that we've really alluded to it. I think two, two things. The first, which is most important is don't obsess over one item of food. Because look, sometimes life demands a chocolate bar.

Sometimes life demands a banana. It depends what you're doing. Okay. Can you make a healthier chocolate bar? And actually over the period of time, we don't eat chocolate. We shouldn't eat chocolate bars every day. So that's the first thing. We shouldn't.

We shouldn't eat chocolate bars every... Well, we shouldn't. Why should we? It's like saying that we shouldn't eat burgers every day as well. It's very normal though, that people do that, right? That's common. But we shouldn't. Why do you say it's like saying that we shouldn't eat burgers every day as well? It's very normal though, that people do that, right? That's common. But we shouldn't. It is common though, right?

No, no. I think it probably is quite common. It is common. Is it? I don't, I assume so. I mean, you're right. I mean, the grocery stores are full of them. Yeah, exactly.

The grocery stores are full of them. So, so I think what you've got to do is- I did up until I was 21 every day. So that's what you've got to do. What you've got to do is there's nothing wrong with the chocolate bar. You've got to think about your whole diet with those numbers that are there. The second are those numbers that I was actually telling you about. The numbers that just focusing on the calories.

I really wish that they make it in small numbers. I think maybe the genie is out of the bottle and we can't get those calories. I think obsessing over the calories is the wrong thing to access about because it doesn't improve the quality of our diet. To me, the big thing that I think I really want people to take away is this idea of look at the protein, look at the fiber and look at the sugars. Yes. Because that solves it.

Right? Like I'm thinking right now, if someone's feeling overwhelmed, right now they're listening to what you're just thinking right now, like Charles, I want to do this, but I don't even know how to have time to do it. Where would you suggest they start? Is that where you'd suggest they start? Yes.

Yes. Me too. I think that's a really clear way of looking at it is think about your diet as protein intake, fiber intake and sugar intake in the percentages that Giles broke down. 16% of protein, 30 grams of fiber and 5% sugar or less. And all of a sudden, now you're hopefully going to feel healthier, have more energy and naturally eat less or eat less. Eat less crap. You're going to eat better. And you might say that, well, wait a minute, they don't label fruits and vegetables and they don't label meat. Because they don't need to.

Ultimately, if you get, if you're actually eating a piece of meat and some fruit and vegetables in which there's no labeling and it's just, how do I know? How do I know? If you're eating that, you don't need to know. That is the point. Because if you're cooking a steak and you're having broccoli and you're doing the things and you're peeling the potato and boiling it and you're then concerned about, well, I don't know how much sugar they put in it, but it's because you have to add sugar if you want to do it and you want to do. So the moment you're cooking from scratch, not everybody can cook from

scratch, which is what this is, right? So, but if you are eating foods with no labels, then they tend to be fresh stuff, then... That's a great point. Right. That the foods that don't have labels. Correct. Is because they don't need them. Correct.

That I've never even thought about it like that. It sounds so simple, but that's a really good point. And if you're eating that way, then generally you're going to be healthier, safer, more secure. Yes, there's still danger of eating too much and what have you, of course. But as a general rule, we're looking at a general rule. I think that's going to be. Amazing.

Charles, it's been so great talking to you today. We end every on purpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. So Giles, yo. Yo. You look prepared. Here's your final five. The first question is what is the best health advice you've ever heard, received or given?

Do you know what? Move more. That's a great one. Uh, question number two, what is the worst health advice you've ever heard or received? Count calories. Question number three, something you used to believe was true about health, but now you know it's not true.

I used to think that the moment you hit your forties or fifties, your metabolism dropped and that's not, that's not true. It's only because your muscle mass dropped. So I think this metabolism thing, your metabolism stays stable through your life. That was a very long answer. I'm so sorry, but that, but I used to think that five years ago and now I don't think that anymore. What's the most recent study or resets that you've read about the work that you

do that blew your mind or fascinated you or something that made you really curious and interested? When I first learned that this lowering on metabolism when you lose weight is pretty much permanent, right? And so in other words, this is why it's so difficult for you to lose weight. This is probably, I was probably 10 years old, so it's not new. It's part of the reason why your brain hates it when you lose weight or why it's so difficult to actually lose weight. So once again, that's just... So I'm 80 kilos.

If I used... And I'm not, I've always been, okay? But imagine if exactly the same, my twin got to 90 kilos and then came back down to 80 kilos. Then from a physics perspective, you think, well, this is an 80 kilo gentleman, I'm an 80 kilo gentleman, we should be able to eat exactly the same thing. We can't. He will always have to eat less than me to maintain the same body weight

because he has a brain that used to be 90 kilos and is dragging him back up. And I remember seeing the very, very first time seeing those studies, I was going, this is depressing, but, but then, then you think, well, how do we mitigate against these things and how do you do it? I mean, the drugs do a job for that, for example, people who exercise. So exercise is terrible for weight loss because we don't exercise enough, but very good for weight maintenance for that very reason, right? Where when you exercise, your expenditure goes up and it mitigates

against this loss of metabolism. So it's not brand new study, but I found it very interesting. Is there a way to trick your brain? There is a way to trick your brain in a bad way. So in other words, if you gain weight and stay there for long enough time, your brain begins to defend that higher weight. Okay. Whereas if you lose weight, your brain from what we know so far never defends

that lower weight because evolutionarily there was no reason to do that, right? Because this is less likely of survival. So your brain can train in the other direction, vicious cycle, not, not in losing weight. And fifth and final question, we asked this to every guest who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I think that healthy food should always be the cheaper option wherever you go.

At the moment, that's not true. It's very uneven where at the moment unhealthy wherever you go. At the moment, that's not true. It's very uneven. Where at the moment, unhealthy food is cheaper. And so if we want to cure diseases and obesity equitably across the world, regardless of how rich a boy you are, then by default, the food that you eat must be healthy. Charles, thank you so much for your time and energy. So grateful to connect with you today

and learn so many things from you. You blew my mind multiple times and everyone who's been listening or watching, go and grab the book, Why Calories Don't Count, How We Got the Science of Weight Loss Wrong. Follow Giles across his podcast and social media if you don't already, and make sure you tag us on TikTok and Instagram and let us know what you're connecting with, what you're experimenting with and what you're trying. I love to see how you're putting all of this insight into action.

Thank you so much again, Jal. Such a pleasure. Great to meet you. Thanks for having me. If this year you're trying to live longer, live happier, live healthier, go and check out my conversation with the world's biggest longevity doctor, Peter Attia, on how to slow down aging and why your emotional health is directly impacting your physical health. Acknowledge that there is surprisingly little known about the relationship between nutrition

and health and people are going to be shocked to hear that because I think most people think the exact opposite. Hey guys, it's Jhene aka Cheeky's from Cheeky's and Chill Podcast. And I'm bringing you an all new mini podcast series called Sincerely Janaye. Sure, I'm a singer, author, businesswoman and podcaster, but at the end of the day, I am human. And that's why I'm sharing my ups and downs with you in real time and on the go. Listen to Cheeky's and Chill on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Radhita Vleetkya and I'm the host of A Really Good Cry podcast. And I have the opportunity to talk to Logan Urie. If you're out there trying to date right now, being ghosted on Hinge or want to create a dating profile that gives you a solid chance of matching with someone you actually want to go on a date with, then this episode with Hinge's Director of

Relationship Science, Logan Urie, is definitely for you. Relationships do require work. The best relationships are people who really work on them together. Listen to a really good cry on the iHeartRatio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the latest episode of Next Question with me, Katie Couric, I sat down with Jasmine Crockett, Democratic representative of Texas. She's holding out the fork for her party in one of the most conservative states in the union. I think that ultimately who will become

the Democratic nominee for president will be someone that has been out there and has shown that they won't allow themselves to be punched and just say thank you. Like they will punch back. Listen to Next Question with me, Katie Couric on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.