On Purpose with Jay Shetty - HILARY DUFF: The Human Behind the Headlines (Her Most Honest Chapter Yet)

Episode Date: March 9, 2026

Today, Jay sits down with cultural icon Hilary Duff for a raw and honest conversation about  growth, identity, and the quiet courage it takes to evolve in public. Having grown up alongside an entire generation, Hilary reflects on what it means to return to music after more than a decade with her sixth studio album, Luck or Something. She opens up about shedding politeness in favor of truth, embracing maturity without losing the joy of her past, and finally feeling rooted in who she is, not just as an artist, but as a woman, a mother, a partner, and a daughter. Jay and Hilary explore the hidden weight of fame, the loss of anonymity at a young age, and the resilience required to stay grounded in an industry that constantly defines you before you can define yourself. Hilary speaks vulnerably about navigating eating disorders, divorce, co-parenting, estrangement with family, and the reality of loving people through complicated relationships. Through it all, she shares how motherhood reshaped her priorities, how love taught her to accept stability over chaos, and how creativity became a necessary way of reconnecting with herself. Hilary’s reflections reveal a powerful truth: what the world often calls luck is usually years of quiet strength, hard choices, and inner work.  In this interview, you'll learn: How to Trust Your Intuition Over “Luck” How to Grow Without Rejecting Your Past How to Accept Healthy Love (Even When It Feels Unfamiliar) How to Break Family Patterns Without Losing Compassion How to Balance Motherhood and Personal Ambition How to Hold Joy and Pain at the Same Time How to Reinvent Yourself Without Losing Who You Are You are allowed to choose steadiness over chaos, truth over politeness, and peace over performance. Growth isn’t always loud, sometimes it’s simply deciding you don’t want to repeat the same pattern again. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty JAY’S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe here.  Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast  What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:04 The Joy of Being Celebrated 02:46 Choosing Truth Over Politeness 05:15 What’s a Childhood Memory That Keeps You Grounded? 06:56 The Truth About Growing Up in the Public Eye 11:38 Learning to Feel at Home in Your Own Skin 14:22 Where Real Confidence Comes From 19:08 Opening Your Heart to Love Again 21:28 Understanding the Weight of Marriage 25:03 Deciding to Fully Commit 26:24 Trusting Your Intuition 27:28 Owning the Work Behind Your Success 30:36 The Burden of Being the Family Peacemaker 36:18 Navigating Divorce with Intention 38:26 Sharing Your Story on Your Terms 43:50 Holding Joy and Hardship at the Same Time 46:44 Healing and Connecting Through Music 51:49 The Hilary Duff Renaissance  54:50 Staying Attuned to Your Children’s Needs 01:00:59 Building Confidence as a Parent 01:02:26 How Did You Name Your Kids? 01:04:27 Disney-Era “Would You Rather” 01:08:42 Hilary on Final Five  Episode Resources: Website | https://www.hilaryduff.com/  YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSRmCrFvCPomTqjzwoF9MGw  Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/HilaryDuff/  Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/hilaryduff/  TikTok | https://x.com/hilaryduff  X | https://x.com/hilaryduffSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human. Everybody has their reasons, and relationships are difficult, especially with your family. Especially. As painful as it feels to share, when I decided to make this record, I could only talk about the things that I've gone through. Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is someone that we have been excited for such a long time. energy in the studio has been electric for her arrival and I'm not being hyperbolic or overhyping. I really, really mean it. I'm speaking today to the one and only Hillary Duff,

actress, singer, author and entrepreneur whose career has grown up alongside an entire generation that I seem to have in my office. First known to many as Lizzie McGuire, she's continued to evolve as an artist and storyteller balancing creativity, family and reinvention. Hillary is now entering a new chapter with her sixth studio album, Luck or Something, her first full-length release in over a decade out February 20th, 2026. And you can see her on her Lucky Me tour, World Tour, kicking off this June. Do not miss out. We'll put the link to the tickets in the bio. Thank you so much. Hilary Duff, welcome to On Purpose. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you. We are very excited. I cannot tell you. I want to tell you because it's so important. I woke up this morning and everyone's like,

you know this is our Super Bowl, right? And I was like, what? Like, I was trying to figure out what in the day. And they're like, Hillary Duff is coming to it. Like, that was the reaction. Like, people are like, this is our Super Bowl. Forget this weekend. No one cares.

That's so sweet. Like the excitement in the house. And everyone wants pictures. Everyone has asked my permission. I was like, I will ask Hillary. I usually don't allow. You know, it's just, but the energy around the excitement that you bring to people. Yeah.

I mean, how does that feel? Because you've done it for so long, but you still bring this like really electric energy to everyone who's a fan of yours and has been for so long. I swear to God, I'm not trying to do an album plug right now, but I just feel bucky. I feel like whatever reason my purpose is to be here is like to connect with people and I've had the joy of being able to do it for 20 plus years and some of that's felt high and some of that's felt low. But I genuinely feel like people are excited to like meet me and say hi and like have a quick moment. and it just feels like, it feels normal. Like it feels really like genuine always.

And I'm always met with that. And it's a really, you know, I'm not saying it's not a big responsibility sometimes. But, you know, being met with like excitement and someone being like, you've meant so much to me. It's a lovely feeling. Yeah, no, it's definitely there. People have got stories of coming to your tours at 13 years old and saying ridiculous things to you, like in my team. And meeting you for a few moments and just having the best experience. But I was thinking, yeah, you've meant this for 25 years. You've had, you've been so many things to so many people to the characters you've played, the music. Of course, now your new album. What's the version of Hillary Duff that you want people to meet now at this point in your life? Part of the reason this, you know, return to music is feeling so good to me is just that it's like, feels completely, like, rooted in my truth and who I am and what I live with. And, you know, introducing people to, you know,

my past 10 years and knowing that we are going to connect on many levels of experiences and feelings and disappointments and celebrations and like everything in between. So that's kind of what I want them to know about me now and who I want them to to meet. Like they have known me my whole life. I have, you know, played a character that never grew up on TV. You know, she stayed that same age. And not that I feel that that's like the public consensus around me anymore. I think people are pretty familiarized with me and who I am, but I care a lot less. And I feel like truth is more important than like politeness and all of all of that. So that's what the record feels like to me. And that's kind of just how I feel comfortable moving through the world.

You know, I don't know if that's just with age or being a mom of four or being in a settled relationship or being in the industry for as long as I have with many ups and downs. Yeah, I feel like people are getting to meet a mature, real version of you and one that is very accepting and embracing of this amazing journey you've had, which is so beautiful. I think as humans, we tend to have this perspective of like, well, now I am who I am. And I've, like, given up everything. And I feel like you have this beautiful way of being like, I love those experiences. and they mean so much to me and now everyone gets to come on the journey with me.

Yeah. At least what I'm hearing. I think that's true. I think that's absolutely true. And I get to like keep the pieces that still work for me and, you know, obviously continue to grow, but I like move with like a confidence and like a knowing that just occurred, you know? Also, also compiled with like a messy insecurity and all of those things are just like what makes up the feeling.

accepting of all the things that come our way and that like we discovered on on our path, you know? I'm always fascinated by, especially for people who've been in the public eye for so long, like the experiences that they had that we were less aware of. And I wanted to ask you, what's a childhood experience you have that you feel defines who you are today? This is so random, but like just like a huge standout memory for me and my childhood is like catching tadpoles in Tick-Tac boxes in New Bromfels in Texas. And it was something that we did after school, like almost every day. It's a huge part of me feeling like I have my feet on the ground constantly, even in this, you know, kind of out-of-body experience of a career that I've had and

like navigated through. I think like being from Texas and being so normal and kind of grubby and dirty, like is a part of my personality that has helped me just be that and not be kind of what can happen, you know, with 25 years in the industry. Yeah, yeah, that's almost what's helped you stay grounded. I think some of those, like, early childhood memories of having, like, a lot of, like, freedom. And I really never thought that I'd raise my kids in L.A. and we're having a great time. But, you know, I grew up very different than this. And I'm happy to have those roots. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I'm going to come to you for all the tips. I have some of my- figuring it out, but I do know a lot. Yeah, I will say that I have some of my favorite people who

grew up here. Like I have a couple of people on my team who, obviously I'm born and raised in London and I only moved to LA eight years ago. But I have a couple of members of my team that were like born and raised in LA and like went to all the school. And they're just like phenomenal human beings. Yeah. Just like the sweetest sort of the earth humans. And it's it's such a wonderful thing to kind of redefine what it means. To be like an LA person. Yeah. Or like like you said, if somebody's been in the industry for 25 years. Did you ever think about that along the way like on the journey of like what am I holding on to and what am I losing or what am I keeping? Did you have to think about those things? You lose anonymity. You know, like I've completely lost that. I've lived,

you know, pretty much in the public eye since I was 10 and probably around 15 was when I feel like the world started getting very like interested in what I was wearing, who I was dating, what I was eating where I was. Like, that was an interesting kind of thing to navigate where I feel like I lost some serious innocence, you know, where you're just like, oh my God. And then you get a lot of people constantly talking about your life and seeing it on the cover of magazines and all of that stuff. Like, that was a really strange period to also be, like, forming as a person privately.

And some of those, like, lines get blurred where you're like, I'm, I am this. but I am this. And I, you know, I think I've lost a lot and I think I've gained a lot. Like, I wouldn't change it. But I've become very tough. Like, it's not a easy, it's not an easy industry. And I think it's not very easy for other people to deal with you in this industry. What do you mean by that part?

I think it looks very, like, shiny. And for other people to cope with how it looks is, a tricky thing to navigate. Yeah. Was there a time when everything felt like it was a dream from the outside, like you're saying shiny, but for you, you were having to really grapple with some stuff behind the scenes. Through all of it, you know? Navigating people is like tricky and that's not, it wasn't like all negative. I think I had like a great time being a child actor. I had a great time like turning into a pop star, like,

but it is not easy behind the scenes. And there's, so much that goes on and ways that you feel out of control. And now, you know, I have my own life and my family and my family that I've created. And it's really nice to have that pillar. Yeah. Because all the other stuff, now this is like fun. I mean, no, it is hard work. And to be honest, my friend, one of my friends is Megan Trainor.

And she texts me the other day and she's like, I just want you to know, you have made this look seamless. And I'm so impressed, but I know that it's hard as hell. I honestly was like, thank you so much for saying that. I've had the stomach flu. I like flew all my kids out because I missed my family so much, but like they all have like coughs and stuffy noses and I have to like sing on stage at night. And we got trapped because of weather and then all my gear and my crew and my like it's just all so crazy. But I think that this time around I get to pick how much crazy I can tolerate. It's probably more comforting to hear that someone sees the hardship than you make it look easy. It's almost like hearing make it look easy. You're like, oh, but, you know, on the

inside, it's never that. And it's almost like the easier it looks, the harder it must be. You were reminding me of, I listened to this TED talk years ago. And it was this model, I forget her last name, but her name's Cameron something. And the TED talk is called, looks on everything. Trust me, I'm a model. And it's just really, it's yeah, it's fascinating. And she, it's fascinating. And she, She's a brilliant speaker, and she really talks about kind of what you were just saying. So she shows images of what modeling she was doing, and then she tells us what age she was and shows us a real picture of that time. And obviously, models are different because with you, people are seeing all of your life.

In one sense, with a model, you're only seeing the picture of them on a campaign. And at that time, we weren't really following models on social media or wherever else. And so she shows like, this is a picture of me at 14, like smiling with her parents. And then this is a picture of me at 14 modeling. and she's like romantically posing with this guy. And she's talking about how much of a disconnect there was between her real life and the life that as a model she was portraying. Right.

Also, when you're a model, you don't get to be like, I'm not really comfortable wearing that. I don't really want to do that pose. You're a model, right? So they're like, no, we're hiring you to, this is what we wanted. And then, right, it's a little different to be like an actor who she was posing in a photo shoot. Yeah, yeah.

that direction of just not having agency, not having choice, especially at that age. And I was thinking about for you, you've talked very openly about the eating disorders you had and just like what that looked like and how, you know, at the time so many people were pitt against each other. And the culture was different. Hopefully it's different. You can tell me if it is. But that's what it felt like at the time.

What was it like for you to get comfortable being comfortable in your own skin? Like what did that take? Like today you're saying like, you know, it's not easy. It's still hard work. but I'm kind of in control. I'm in charge. Like I feel better. But talk to me about some of the stops on that journey and what that looks like for so many people who may not grow up in the public eye, but also deal with the same challenges. I feel like I've actually always had quite a bit of like self-confidence and a good, this is such a lame term, like a good head on my shoulders.

Yeah. But I have. I, you know, I'm in my friend groups when I was a teenager, I was like pretty confident, but also mixed with the insecurities of like your teenhood and your 20s or your early 20s. Like, of course those normal things came up. And then on top of it, I was dealing with like, yes, people commenting on my body at a young age and starting to get photographed and people like asking you how many times you weigh yourself or comparing you to people that were thinner than you or other girls, you know, in your like line of work. And I definitely struggled for a lot of little while there just trying to fit a certain mold and have control over something in my life. Thankfully, that was like pretty short-lived.

But definitely toyed with it during a time of like, I'm on tour. I'm filming a movie. I'm, you know, like a lot of moving parts to my life and just trying to also like form as a person. Honestly, I think it took just time and bigger things happening in my life that like having children that took the spot of the other things that didn't mean as much to worry about. And luckily, those things felt easy to me to replace. I think having success at such a young age makes making like work choices a little harder because there's like a pressure of a level of success. And I think once I did have kids and, you know, my phone wasn't ringing as much and I wasn't able to show up to work as much and say yes as often, I ended up just saying no a whole bunch and not being worried about like sitting still. And a lot of great things came from that decision.

And a lot of confidence came from that decision. A lot of my steadiness has come from being in such a great stable relationship. that's helped me a whole bunch get through some pretty heavy themes in my life. Yeah, I'm excited to hear about that more, especially after what you told me earlier. Where did that early confidence come from, that good head on your shoulders?

And I love that. And I think so many, and the reason I ask it is there are so many young people who listen to our show or young parents with young kids who want their kids to have that good head on their shoulders and have that confidence. Where did that come from for you?

and how were you able to hold on to it? I think a part of it is who you are. And then I think a whole bunch of it is your influence around you, you know? And I had a mom who was very supportive of a dream, you know, and she made me take it seriously because it was a big change for our life to, like, leave Texas and come to L.A. But she also didn't, our, like, livelihood wasn't weighted on whether or not I booked a job or not, you know. And I think that I found confidence in work and working, you know, but I think it was a little more weighted.

But like when I see my son play a really good soccer game, I see his confidence building. And when I see, you know, he is the captain of his football team at his school, sorry, soccer team at his school. And he is... No, it's football. You can say that here. You're like, you have to write the first. Yeah, I was like, yeah, we don't need to do that. Sorry, I had to, I'm sorry.

He, I see his confidence built when I, you know, so I think it was just that. Like, mine happened to be acting. But those things were confidence builders. At times they were confidence. strippers. I had a lovely support system. And I also got to be a kid. Like, that wasn't all taken away. I had like normal friends. And I felt the highs and lows of friendship and being confident, not confident, and dating and all of that stuff. I don't know. I think some, some of it you're born with and some of it is like what is what you're surrounded by and what you, what's modeled for you.

Yeah. We were talking about this a bit earlier off camera, but I was saying that, like, I feel like lot of confidence I get, when I was a kid, came from the fact that I always knew my mom would catch me if I was to fall. So it didn't come from feeling like I would never fall because I had challenges and got bullied or different things would happen anyway, right? As it does in any kid's life. Yeah. But I always knew my mom would catch me. And that was like such, and even as a grown man today, I'm like, I know if I called my mom, she would still catch me today, like after all those years. And it does build such a sense of confidence. And then I think the other side of what you're saying, which I appreciate, which I think we're finally realizing is that confidence does come from

competence. It comes from doing hard things and putting yourself out there and taking action. And for you as acting for your son, it's playing soccer. And those steps and seeing yourself go out there and play a game, there's confidence that comes from building a skill or building competence that doesn't come from just sitting there and thinking about it or, you know, hoping that you naturally feel that way because people may not be born that way. Yeah. And so both of those ideas resonate. Matt and I talk about this with the kids all the time,

and it could be as simple as them going and making their own water instead of just being like, I'm thirsty. And we're like, oh, let me do it for you. You know, like sometimes we do, of course. We like our kids to take care of our kids. But, you know, we have the conversation a lot that's like the more they do, the more they can do. And the more you can do, the better you feel about yourself.

You know, so just being, trying to hold them accountable to be competent for their level is something that I feel like helps form your confidence. Yes. And like will make us feel okay about sending them off into the world at some point. I remember I'm not recommending this and I'm not condoning this at all. I just remember I had friends who were parents. And they had this particular methodology that they were training their kids with.

But we were sitting on one side of a table and hanging out and their child was like playing with a candle on the other side. And my natural instinct, I don't have kids. My natural instinct was to go take the kid away from the candle because obviously there's fire and the natural instinct. And they were like, no, no, no, just leave it. Like, they're just playing and figuring out. And I was like, wow, like, that's really bold.

You're like, hope she's wearing a ponytail. Yeah, exactly. I was like, wow, like, you know, and her hair was very short that she didn't, she had and grown her hair out, but she was like two years old or something. Yeah. Or maybe three. And I was just like, yeah, it's not, again, not recommending, not saying that's a good thing.

I'm just saying that there is something to be said for being competent at your age and your level of experience and providing that to your children. It feels like what you've been saying about your relationship right now, you've said it a few times like it's built such a foundation for you to go through so much. What is it that creates a foundation of strength and peace and a relationship for you from your experience? I could talk about this for hours. That's a good thing, right? I think it is time and just getting to the place where you can be in the trenches with someone

and they can know everything and accept everything and help you move through things in the best way. I mean, for me, I think Matt and I always loved hanging out with him. I love, he made me laugh like crazy. Like he was such a, he just kept showing up for me over and over again. And I think coming out of, you know, being divorced and being a young mom and having a lot of stuff happen in my family life, I think I was just like not ready for super health yet. And someone who was like totally nice to me and wanted to like have like a healthy relationship and and just like keep showing up, I guess. And so it took us a little while to, it took me a little while to just like, I think, accept something good.

And it wasn't until we had Banks, which is our seven-year-old, that I feel like I really, like, could settle in to the relationship when I realized, like, the kind of parents we were and how we were doing as parents together. I really remember, like, just feeling like my shoulders could be like, and it was really, like, really a nice weight off. And then, like, our relationship from there continued to just be, like, emotional shelter, you know, instead of dramatic, like, craving those younger, dramatic highs and lows and just feeling better in the, like, steady. Which also comes with challenges, and I talk about those challenges a lot on luck or something. It's nice to be where we are right now and know that some of those highs and lows feel like a snapshot of a time frame. instead of a continual struggle. You know? I love what you said about that feeling

that I think we all go through when you find you a person. I've been with my wife for 13 years now. I'm married for 10. Congrats. Thank you. And yeah, it's our 10th wedding anniversary this year. And so it's really exciting to celebrate.

But like when I think about it that way, it's like I love what you said about this point that when you first meet someone who actually loves you and is kind to you and it's really hard to accept. It's really hard to accept, both based on how others have treated us and how we've treated ourselves, I feel like it's a mix of both of those experiences. I agree with that.

Right? It's almost like you're wrestling with it. I don't know, how I felt before in the past. Is that how you describe it? How would you describe it? Yeah, and you want to like poke holes in it to make sure it's like steady enough, you know? Yeah. That's what I felt like I was doing.

I think it added an extra pressure that I had a child already. And like I didn't want to expose him to something that wasn't like for sure going to stick. and work out for me. Yeah, I mean, I'm just feel so settled in a good way, like, so happy that I'm like, God, your intuition works and it's good because it is really, it is to commit your life to someone is a very big choice. Yeah, it's only after you do it and you spend a few years together, you realize how big it is. Right. Like, I was like, when I made that commitment, I actually I don't think I had a clue what that commitment meant. Right.

And then years later, you're like, oh, okay, now I'm actually living that commitment. Yes. When I made it that day on my wedding day, it was kind of just like, it was, it felt natural. It felt real, but I almost hadn't really experienced what it meant to say that, if that makes any sense. How old were you when you got married? We were, I was 28 and my wife was 25. So pretty young. Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty old.

I wonder if it's like that by design. Yeah. What do you mean? Because marriage is so hard and it's such a big choice that I wonder if you do it at a slightly younger stage of your life or else you wouldn't do it because it's such like a crazy. That's a good point. It's such a crazy thing to commit to. It is. It is.

Yeah. Me and my wife had talked about that before. I feel like it was older compared to people we knew back in London. Yeah. We got married late. Oh, you did? Compared to a lot of our friends, you got married very early. Then you guys moved to L.A.

And you're like, oh, no one's married here. Yeah, exactly. Then we moved here and we're like, oh, wait, there's no rules. This is great. Like, you know, we got friends on. like marrying at 40, having kids at 40. Like, no one cares. And it was nice. It was refreshing, actually, from coming from a culture where people were getting married at 22, 23, 24, 25, and being able to have that space.

But we've talked about that many times where we're like, oh my gosh, we've grown so much. And my wife especially, she feels like she's been so many different versions of herself in the last 13 years that... It's amazing and speaks volumes of your relationship that she could be so many versions of herself in a marriage. Do you know what I mean? Like take on, you said lots of different versions of herself. It's very hard to like grow, I think. Yeah. A lot of the growth that I did outside of motherhood happened before I was in a relationship

or in between being in a relationship, which is like kind of just being alone with yourself. Yeah, right. So basically you're saying that I must be amazing. Amazing. I'm so patient. That's correct. I'm just so flexible. I didn't want to like pump the ego too much.

I know. I'm just like, thank you. That was what I was getting at. Yeah, my wife's just so lucky that I've been like so patient. It's been the other way around on many, many occasions. But marriage is so hard. It is so hard to grow with someone. It is so hard to continue to grow.

It's so hard to grow at a different pace. It's so hard to grow at opposite paces sometimes it feels like. Yeah. What would you say the biggest lessons you took away from your first marriage that really have helped you in that healing transition? I don't love to talk about this too much because, Because, you know, I felt like in that time of my life, I was so ready to get married. I was in something that I really adored.

I was ready to have a baby. I was ready to have something of my own, you know, that I could just like focus on and it be mine. And like my life felt out of my hands a little bit at that moment. And I just wanted to like shrink it. I've been pretty open about, you know, being a divorce person and what that's like and being a single mom and being, you know, kind of like choosing to like end a family is a huge horrible choice to make. But I also co-parent that with with that person and we do a great job mostly. Sometimes there's bumps and frustrations. But again, ebbs and flows, right? But like we

adore this person that we created and we do a great job. This is like before, you know, conscious uncoupling was like a coined a term and we really tried to do that. I really tried to do that. Like, you just grow. Yeah. And I think I did. You strike me as someone who like follows your intuition. You even said it earlier when you were talking about your current relationship. You're like, I'm so glad my intuition was right. Yeah. And then I was like, and the album's called luck or something. And so I wanted to ask you, what's the relationship between intuition and luck and has your career and journey and even this inspiration behind this album, how much of it

has been luck and how much of it's been intuition. I think a lot of it has been intuition. And I think that falls under the category of the or something part of it where I'm like, actually, I deserve some credit here. I feel incredibly lucky. I don't know why me. But I do know that I've also worked really hard.

And I know that I've had to go through a lot. The title is pretty loaded and does mean a whole, and does mean a whole bunch of different things to me, like what I just said, but also it's a coy way of, like, responding to a question I'm constantly asked, which is like, how are you so normal?

How did you get through this? And I'm like, luck or something. Yeah, got it. But I think the or something is the real weighted portion. It's good when you think you're lucky and everyone else realizes it was hard work. It's kind of what I think is like the accurate assessment. And anyone that I know that I believe has achieved something amazing.

And when I say achieve something amazing, I think it's, it could be being grounded in a difficult industry. It could be something athletically successful. Like whatever you define as greatness or success or winning, it's the problem becomes when everyone else views it as lucky. And, you know, you view it as hard work. And it's like beautiful when, like you said, I see myself as lucky. Like, I don't know why me. Like, that's beautiful. And then if we can, but it's always the other way around.

It's almost like, yeah, people like to think, I got asked that the other day. I was asked, someone was asking me in an interview, like, why do you think people listen to you and why do they connect with you? And I was like, to be honest, I always struggle with that question because I feel really grateful and fortunate that anyone even cares to listen to me. I remember speaking of rooms of like three people. And so I feel completely humbled by where it's gone. And then I was like at the same time, like, I think it's because I've been doing this for a long time, I've done it for longer offline than I have online. Yeah, like, honestly, when I zoom out and like it would be hard for you to answer this way, but. I'm like, probably because you're smart.

You know what I mean? Probably because you're smart. Probably because I think that you have a gift and you can connect with people. I feel like I have a similar gift like that. Like for some reason I resonate with people in a certain way. But like you have to take credit for what you build. And you also can feel lucky. And you also can feel immense gratitude.

And, you know, how did I get here? feelings, but like you're also smart and you're good at what you do. No? That's very sweet. I appreciate that. I appreciate it coming from you. But I like what you're saying about the idea of all these things can coexist. Yeah.

And that's why I like the luck or something. I think you're so right. Like we're allowed to feel all of these emotions. Like there's pride, there's gratitude, there's luck, there's intuition, there's, there's and confusion even still. Yeah. Insecurities. And everything.

And it's almost like when we're forced to be like, well, tell me the one thing that, change your life and you're like, oh, luck or something. Yeah, it's like, luck or something is the new answer now. That's what I'm going to use every time I'm asking. You can have it. I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to use it now. I'm going to encourage lots of people to use it because, yeah, and I, honestly, we've only met briefly, but like the, the impact you've had on people proves that there's so much hard work, so much talent, such a gift, like so much, you know, because you can't have that people grow up watching a lot of people. It doesn't mean that you carry that same impact, so same back at you. And it's, yeah, it's something that's very visceral

in anyone that's followed you for a long time. I wanted to jump into your album because I've been getting to listen to it, which I've really enjoyed, which has been so wonderful for me. And I'm, I'm very deep into, because I love words and I love spoken word, I love poetry, I love, I took out some lyrics that really, I felt were beautiful and powerful. So I may read your own lyrics back to you. I can't sing them back to you because I can't sing them back to you, because I can't sing to save my life, but I may read them back to you. But I wanted to ask you about this one. So you say, in your song, Weather for Tennis, you write, or you sing, I'm a seasoned apologist for the people who I love. I'm an amateur psychologist. The key to everyone's handcuffs. Keep the peace because I'm a

kid of divorce and you're the starter of wars and there's no winning in yours. Where does that show up in your life today? Like where did that come from and where does it show up? I think it's talking about being the person who's smoothed silver and makes everything right and extends themselves and continues to show up and try to make things easy for everyone. And you're talking about being in a relationship that is going to keep playing a game. And, you know, towards the end of the song, you finally realize, like, I'm going to put it into this. The message behind it is a feeling that a lot of people can relate to of just, it's exhausting to keep up always being the one to make things right

or to carry the burden or to make the call or to stay the bigger person and keeping the peace because you're a kid of divorce is obviously very relatable. People don't need too much explaining on that one. I think it's definitely a role that I play in my life. And Matt had this amazing idea for the song. we started playing tennis together.

And I think that it was definitely inspired by just like the game of tennis and kind of applying it to a relationship, a romantic relationship that's probably not going to work out. Expand on that further with a tennis analogy for me? The chorus is, if it ain't the weather for tennis, then I guess we can argue until dinner time. So it's just kind of about a game being played

and a cycle that is constantly like repeating. Yeah. Right before we started writing the record together, maybe a year before, I was like, if we're going to last the long haul, we need sport. We need to like learn how to play a sport together. And so we picked up tennis. And I also forced him to learn how to ski, which is like one of his favorite things to do now. And we love to ski. But I think that, I think the chorus was inspired for him because we had started playing the game of tennis. I think you're spot on. I think so many kids can feel like they were the peacemaker in their

family. I know plenty of people who've gone to therapy or talked about that with me and this idea of just they were the one trying to calm everyone down. And people have different versions of this, right? Like you meet comedians who did it through making everyone laugh and then that becomes their journey and that's a very on the nose example. But all of us have played some sort of role of being mediators. I often feel is that I do what I do today because I mediate my parents' marriage growing up. And so I was the kid who was like at 10 years old, like listening to both sons. and helping them connect and trying to find the points at which they could relate to each other.

And I don't regret doing that. I'm actually very happy I did that. I gave me great skills for life. My parents divorced when I was around 18. And I feel like that was a really hard time. Because I was like kind of an adult. And then you're like, did they just stay together to get us to this point?

and now you have guilt that they were like unhappy or just like so many different things. I gave up being the peacemaker of it when I became around 21. So I remember that time vividly in my life where I was like. What did that feel like giving that up, making the choice to be like, I'm not doing that anymore? Oh, it was tough because there were certain members of my family that felt that I was giving up my responsibility.

And you're like, this actually wasn't my job in the first place. Correct. And so that was the, I remember that being the tension where I was like, I love my parents. I'm grateful for everything they've given me. I'm really valuable. And I wouldn't be who I am today if I didn't have this situation that I grew up in. But I think now's the time that I've spent,

however many, obviously I didn't start mediating when I was four years old, but I've spent, whatever, 10 years in my life trying to figure this out, and I'm not capable. So there's a part of me that felt like a failure, there's part of me that felt like, you know, like that I was right

and I was free to give up the media, the peace part that you're talking about. about. But I think that's what's so interesting is that I gave up that responsibility at 21, even though I saw the decision at 10. But did you ever get answers to your wise and your questions? Or was that something that you kind of found on your own? I think it was really hard for them to like be honest with each other. And there was a lot of like fighting and it wasn't not like they could hang out and be in the same room. And so when it came from me getting divorced, I was like, I'm not going to have that. Yeah. We're going to be like

do holidays together as much as we can. And not that it was always easy, but it felt, way easier than the alternative. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, yeah, I don't, I don't, my dad and I don't really have much of a relationship and we don't speak very often. It's hard because I think there's not a whole bunch of answers and it's, you kind of hear

one side and then try to take from it what you believe. And then, you know, the same on the other. And it's really hard, I think if a family breaks apart very dramatically, it's hard to find you're way back sometimes and some people want to and some people don't yeah it's i feel like as the older you get you realize you've got to answer the questions yourself and find you've got to kind of find the full stop by yourself kind of like the point that you're making this lyric of just i've decided i'm not taking on this responsibility in whatever in whatever way you played it do you do you feel sometimes do you feel free of it or is it is it always like something that no i don't play that role you're

always kind of conditioned to play that role i do i think it's a a little bit like muscle memory where you lean on it and then you have to remember some of the through therapy or wherever you find your solace like you have to keep pushing those good habits or good things to say to yourself to cope and make different choices. It's almost like that conditioning pulls you back and then you've got to find this new thought process almost like learning new lines as an actor and going well yeah this is the new life that I want to build and even what you just said about how you knew that when you went through it, you didn't want to mirror some of those behaviors. And you're like, no, we're going to do, we're going to do holidays together

and we're going to change things because that is that muscle, that is tearing away that muscle memory and going, I'm going to change it. Yeah. Yeah. There's another amazing lyric that I love that I took apart here. So this one, okay. Don't tell me what song it's from. Okay. I like to play a game. Oh, okay. Oh, I didn't know. Okay, fine. All right. If you want to play games, we're going to play some games later. Okay. Okay. But you can, I won't tell you what song it's wrong. Okay. So the first question will be, what song is it from after I read? Okay. Okay. I like this. This is good. I should have done it like that. We come from the same home, the same blood, a different explanation of the same thought. People ask if I've seen you. And honestly, I hate it. Because the truth is that I need to, but there's no way to relay it. Not if we don't talk. Yeah. So that's from We Don't Talk.

And this is a hard one for me. This is a really tough one. My sister and I don't speak. And I think in my adulthood, I've come across more and more people that are having this experience. And as painful as it feels to share, when I decided to make this record, I could only talk about the things that I've gone through. Like, there would be no purpose to make a record after 10 years

than to be, then to face, you know, what it's been like. So that's my truth. And I really worked hard to lyrically make sure that I'm just speaking about my experience. You know? It's very hard to be, to be, you know, a person who's, like, had their life exposed in the industry for 25 years. And we were talking about, you know, that earlier tiptoeing around kind of what the outcome has been for some of it. But, yeah, that is, it's a very vulnerable song and it's a very raw part of my existence. And I hope it's not forever. but it's for right now. Sorry.

Don't be sorry. There's a tissue there as well if you need it. You guys come locked and loaded because this happens. Thank you for being so vulnerable and open with me because it's, can't imagine how hard it is. Yeah. And so sorry that you and her are going through that. I'm sure it's hard on you both in different ways.

Totally. I agree with that. It's definitely a raw nerve. Everybody has their reasons and there's, um, relationships are difficult even with your family, especially with your family. Especially, yeah. Yeah, I think it's easier when you aren't connected that way. Yeah, and it seems like you yearn for that relationship back because you say, I need to.

Like, it's not, it's not something that you're kind of throwing away or giving up. As you said, there's a part of you that seems hope it changes. That's the person I grew up with. one. I really hope she hears the song. You do? Yeah, I hope she hears it and I hope it's at least the beginning of some way back to whatever it is that's good for both of you and that you both desire because whatever that looks like. Yeah. That's what's hard with family is that we assume that good looks like everything's close and everything's perfect and that's what we think when we're growing up. And we get older and we go, oh wait, it doesn't, it doesn't always look like that.

You desire, like, in family, like this picture. And that's not reality a lot of the times for people. Yeah. And so you're like, you get to a certain age. I mean, I have my own family who is put first no matter what. And I've gotten to make different rules for my family. But, yeah, you get to a certain age where you're like, oh, that doesn't feel good or that's not right. Or that's, you know, it's very hard to think of.

family in the way that you grow up thinking of family when so much shifts and changes. And I love my family in certain ways and certain memories and also like huge struggles have, you know, occurred. And not like putting that one responsibility on anybody involved, you know, assuming some myself. So, you know, it's, it's very complicated. Yeah. I think family is complicated. You absolutely right. Thank you for being so open and honest to the point that we can tell just how hard this is for you and how heavy it all is. And I'm sure everyone is listening right now is thinking that, God, I know exactly what relationship in my life makes me feel that way, whether it's with a sibling of father, a parent or a family member. And so yeah, yeah, thank you for

going to do one more, you can guess the song, do one more lyric. Love it. Yeah, one more lyric. Please don't make me cry. I hope I'm not making you cry I would hate to be the one making you cry that is not my intention whatsoever and I respect you too much to you tell me how you feel about stuff this is the last lyric we're doing

so we went I promise okay what I find fascinating about you is your lyrics are so real and raw and clear and they are so resonant with anyone and everyone who's going through similar things through you are, which I think many, many people are. And so often when I read lyrics,

they're so metaphorical, but you're like poetic but real. And so this one, you can guess the song. So the lyric goes, I wish I could sleep on planes and then my father would really love me. He'd show up on my wedding day and tell my family they're all so lucky. He'd tell me how he wish he stayed and that he never meant to disappoint me. But till then, I'll exist as the optimist. I think more just being very vulnerable and open about what it's like to be in a family that, you know, your parents aren't together and you don't have, you know, relationships with both of your parents. It's devastating. And it feels, I don't, I think it doesn't matter what age you are. You want your parents to feel like they care about you.

And big portion of my existence. hasn't felt like that. I don't know if that's the truth, but that's how it feels. And so that's just what I'm sharing in that song, The Optimist. I love that song so much. I think I live in this world that like, I'm really happy. I'm really like goofy. I'm really silly. A lot of hard things have happened to me. And I think that with the album, I wanted to share that emotional depth and that some of that heaviness, but like disguised with, you know, a very joyful track. And I think that's, like, very much how I like to exist in the world is like this balance of these two things can exist at the same time. And, you know, the record is a pop record. It feels like you want to blast in in your car. At least I do. That's when I knew it was done, you know. But they're like life topics. And life is really challenging, really hard.

really tricky to make the right calls and the wrong calls. It's all just a process and like a very beautiful and messy one. And I feel like the record has just so much of that in it, you know. It feels like a capture of 10 years of different things flying at you. I know you have this other song that we all love. I'm not reading out anymore lyrics. I know you have this other song that we all love called Mature. I was just thinking as you were saying that, that there's a lot. so much maturity in being able to be like, hey, I'm fun and goofy. And at the same time, there's all this stuff going on. And like, and I think that's everyone who's growing up with

you and is experiencing all of that too. And I feel like only knowing one side, especially through someone that people have followed and continue to follow for so many years, it's, you feel less alone. I feel like people are going to feel less alone when they listen to this album. But in a good way, not just like in their fields, but like you said, blasting it out, it's a part of it. Like, I love that juxtaposition of making people feel less alone, but also making them have fun. I love that juxtaposition too, and I love that word because playing the few little shows that I played before I go out this summer was such a cool feeling of like the audience one is like my age. So they're all adults now. And we've grown up together.

And it was like I'm playing these old songs that feel so good to people. and hold such a sweet, like, innocent part of their being, you know? Like, that meant something to them at a very, like, pivotal a coming of age. And to get to hold that memory for people is such a, like, badge for me. But then also to meet them with, like, the new songs and kind of experiences that life is provided. It was a really cool experience to have them sing, like, these songs that they, the hat that they have from the record, you know, to sing them and us be adults and be connecting on that level is like really, really powerful. So it's like this really cool, floaty feeling of

like this thing that feels really good that we get to lean on and like celebrate from our past, but, you know, be like, me too, you know, in the now. That says so much about you because I think that you saying that I want people to have that experience that meant so much to them, even though you have transformed, you have grown, you have changed, you have gone through all of this, that just speaks volumes of your character, honestly, because it's so easy for people to want to be like, that was me, Dan, I'm going to leave that behind, this is the new me now, and that's generally what we do as humans. We're like, yeah, that was that and it was cool.

And it's like for you to be like, no, I just love doing it because it brings people so much joy and I get to share this part of them. Like, that juxtaposition truly is, yeah, I just want to thank you for that because I think It shows just how much you have in your heart of wanting to make people happy and wanting to, finding them to have these moments. I think it, you know, I don't know if it would have been possible for me to do 10 years ago. I don't know why now all of a sudden, I really don't know how to answer like what shifted and what made me find such peace with my past, you know.

Like, but I'm really proud of it now. And I get to go and celebrate it. And it feels like I get to be a part of it with everybody instead of trying to like shy away from it and be like, like, I'm an adult or I'm changed or I'm different or that's not me anymore. Like that is a part of me and it will always be like a part of me and it feels really fun to celebrate that with people. That it meant something to. It's almost like we all go through pain and then there's transformation and maybe at 10 years ago there was some transformation happening in your life. But now you're coming back as a celebration.

And a celebration is like how we look back at our whole life. Like I went to I went to 370th birthdays last year. And like I looked at life like. totally different because I'm 38. Same. Yeah, yeah, it was the same age. And I went to, I went to these three 70-year-old birthdays. Two of them I'm very close with.

One of them I'm becoming closer with. And they had like their kids, grandkids. They had all their friends that were important at different phases of their life. And everyone gave speeches and like it was, I'm a sucker for this stuff. Like I love love and friendship and all this stuff. And I was like, wow. like when you're 70 like life just looks so different and it's what you just said it's like you're at a point where you're celebrating your you know not that you're 70 years old and not not saying that yeah

but that spirit of like I've had a lot of chapters you know that it's really weird people will be like oh what is what do you remember from this time and like what do you remember from 25 years ago like certain things stand out but yeah that's that's amazing definitely when you get to 70 I can imagine if I'm almost at 40 and feeling the thing that everyone told me I was going to feel at 40. Imagine what 70 is like to get there and like a life well lived and having people from all your eras show up and, you know, speak for you and have relationships as long as you can have at 70, you know, it's cool.

Yeah. It's really cool. Has making music and writing being your therapy, has that been your outlet? How would you describe making this album? Is it therapy? Is it transformative? Is it is it celebration? What is it for you and what does it give you? I think that what really triggered me wanting to make an album was having my fourth child and being like I love motherhood. I'm obsessed with my kids. Obviously I wouldn't have four kids if I wasn't like deeply, utterly obsessed with like the way they run through the house, the way they breed, the way we like, just. just everything about the smallest things to the biggest things, like, obsessed with them.

But I was like, I can't stay here and just be, like, in this because I know so much else about myself that has to be, like, stretched. So I think I got really jealous, actually, of Matt after I had towns and I was like, still nursing and, you know, busy with the other kids and, like, running our household and all of that, all of that responsibility, which I actually genuinely love, but I can't, that can't be, like, it for me. So he was, like, going, he has an amazing studio. He was, like, going to the studio every day and just, like, getting to have a loan time and getting to, like, sit with things that, like, bump around his head in his head and, like, make him tick and, like, purge, you know, his, like, creativity and create. And I was just, like,

I want that too. And he was like, cool. Like, are you serious? Like, it's not like for 10 years I've been writing songs. I've been like deep in motherhood. It's been way easier to like film a TV show, which I also love doing. But like motherhood is a place where you just can completely focus on and throw all of your energy to and then like forget yourself. So being able to know that he has like the front row seat to my whole entire life.

and then sitting and like figuring out what this is going to sound like and what I'm going to talk about felt so safe and so natural. We have such a busy life. It wasn't like there was just endless sessions where I'm like, we're writing for eight hours. Like a lot of it was like a text and I would like, I'm going to get the kids from school. What if it's this line?

What if it's, what if this happens instead of that? You know, like it's just like quick phone calls and a conversation in the kitchen while making plates for the kids. It just happened really naturally and like a wave that it would happen like this with like the way that we live together. That sounds crazy, chaotic and beautiful. Yeah.

That's what a way to make an album together and what a way to, you know, experience, have the experience that you were having and then going off and creating. When you speak of motherhood, it's so real and at the same time it's just like so wonderful to hear about it from you. Like it's, and I know we were speaking about it earlier when you walked in. and just how like you're like dropping the kids off at sports and like picking them up. And even today, I think when you arrived, you were like, yeah, I'm going to go get to pick up the kids after this or whatever. You know, and I'm like, it's so wonderful. And obviously you just said like you wouldn't have four kids if you didn't. What is, what would you say is your favorite way of showing love to the kids?

One thing that my mom was with me and my dad as a young child really playful, extremely silly and playful. And I have that from them. I love that. And I love to play tricks on my kids. I love to be silly and get down on their level and just be really playful with them. And I think that's a huge, important part of, like, the parent-child relationship. And then time. Time spent, talks, dissoning.

to make an album and go on tour, I'm going to miss so much that I've really tried to be there for. And it could make me cry again thinking about, you know, Me, my four-year-old has her school tea party this Friday, and I'm not going to be there. And, like, for Banks, I threw the tea party with, like, three other moms and was there. And so you're like, this feels off balance. This isn't fair. But I will make it fair. I'll find a way to make it fair. And so I think just showing up for your kids and giving them the time, even if it's yesterday, I had a really busy day. And I flew up the canyon for like 40 minutes with Me Mae Mae, of with Towns, my youngest. And I drove to Luca's soccer practice to go do an hour-long interview and then take him to his next soccer practice. And by the time I got home, it was like 9 p.m. But Matt and I drove him to.

because we were both at the studio. And then we, like, walked the track and watched and play soccer. It's like, we got our time. Not all the kids got their time, but two of them did. And you just try to, like, find the balance and be like, hey, I'm not choosing towns this day. I'm choosing, May, I'm going to go watch her a dance. Or I'm going to, you know, you just find a way to make it work and try to be in tune with what your kids need and keep conversations open.

And that's that. Do you think about sometimes, like, when they get older, I'm going to talk to them about how, like, I wasn't at this pie where we did. this thing or do you think about it that way or not really is that am I completely missing the point? The things that kids stick that stick with them is so devastating. My son. That's so painful. It's so painful. Like my son. Please, I need to know now. Okay, we were at Disneyland. This is, okay, he's 13 now, so he must have been like eight or nine. And Disneyland's a big deal. We happen to go like every year, but it's a big deal. And he would not.

get on this roller coaster. And I was like, everyone's going on it. Like, you can't know until you try. Like, I ended up pushing it too hard, making him cry. And it, like, he wrote like a thing about it at school. No. I was like, what about all the times that I'm amazing? Oh, no. And all the time, now we can joke. And he loves to ride roller coasters. And I'm like, I told you. I told you. You had to just listen to me that you would know. And we could have been having more fun since this age, instead of this age and blah, you know, like we obviously like razz each other a ton, but he's always like, remember that time he made me cry because I went to get on the roller coaster and I'm like, never live it down.

He needs to write a new thing in school now about how he loves roller coasters and how it's tired from that point. They don't see it like that, but I'm going to tell him you said so. Yeah, yeah, that's the only fair. But did he ride the roller coaster the first time after you? No. Oh, so he wasn't even that bad then. I think he was like you put some, you tried to put too much pressure.

on me, blah, blah, blah. Now, like, we just went to Disney World for Christmas with the kids. For three days. It was so insane. Four kids, Disney World, three days. How are you doing that? On Christmas Day, we flew. It was crazy. That's the best Christmas. But now I put no. I'm like, you ride it when you're ready. I am not going to be, like, nabbed as that. Yeah, yeah, not by that teacher. You're reminding me that I, my niece and nephew, my nephew is like, he's 10 years old now. he was like two years old when this happened barely yeah maybe two years old we were in a we're in the pool at christmas time we'd taken the family away and we're in a pool and he was in one of those donuts and he needed those and he had his armbands on and everything because obviously he can't swim

yeah he can't swim he's tiny and so it was me him and his dad hanging out in the pool and uh oh stitches what happened oh okay so i was i was playing this game with him which he loved so he won't say this I was playing this game with him where I was pretending to be a little shark coming at him and I would come out and I'd surprise him and he'd laugh and whatever and so I'd keep doing that

one time I do it he falls through the hoot like the donut like for some reason he got so scared that his whole body just fell through it and obviously Min has got him out immediately like he was fine

all he does is tell this story he's like do you remember see? And you're like you can't possibly remember and I'm like dude you weren't even like you were there but you do not have a memory for this He's like, no, I remember that moment when you were trying to be a shark.

And now he's teasing me with it. Like, it's not like he's actually upset. For the first few years, I thought he's never going to be my friend again. I was really sad about it. But you're so right. Like, it's so true. Kids are just... When the fun games take a turn and you're like, oh no, now you're scarred.

Totally. And he's 10 years old and now he uses it against me. And I'm like, hey, I've got loads of stories on you. Like, I've got so many stories on you being silly when you're younger. And we've got video of it too. But no, you're so right, kids. And I guess that's what's so hard with children. It's like you think you're doing things right.

And then, you know, you never know. And that's why I think that overriding love is just so valuable, right? Because you can't predict how they're going to react to one of these experiences, I guess. Right. You also just don't know that you're always doing things right. And I think that's okay. I have a lot of confidence in being a parent just because, you know, the more times you do something, you're like, oh, I know what this looks like.

Oh, I know how to do this thing. but I've never been a parent of a 14-year-old And I've never been the parent of a eight-year-old girl. Like all of these things are just, it's just a constant checking in, updating. One thing that works for this kid doesn't work for this kid. And so it is chaotic, but it's so fun. And you like learn so much and the love is so big.

And we laugh a lot. I'm so grateful for that. It's my favorite. We have these big doors that open in the back of our house and we just will like open up all the door we have to put, we have cats now, so we have to put the cats away, but we just

like open all the doors up and it's just like kids running in and out and soccer and the backyard and everybody playing and jumping on the trampoline or swimming and I just am so appreciative of them and Matt and what we've built. It's such a haven. How did they end up with all these cool names?

Like towns and banks and me, me. Towns and banks and me, may, may. Gosh, how did they end up with their names? They're so unique. I know. I know. Well, May, that was, we thought she was a boy. She was the only kid that we didn't find out when we were having

because we had her in the pandemic. And I think we were all looking for ways to entertain ourselves and surprise ourselves. Yeah, for sure. So she was a, her, like, gender was a surprise. And we thought for sure she was. going to be a boy. She was a girl. And both of our moms were born in May. So we named her May May, or May. We call her May May. She just came to the realization that her nickname is longer than her real name. And she's, like, really confused by why we would do that. That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. And she's smart. Yeah. And she introduces herself as May May. But she's like, why is Banks not like Banks, Banks? And like, what is going on here? They're very funny. Yeah. I don't think we wanted like traditional names, but we also didn't want like, like names that, you know, they didn't feel comfortable with as adults. So we hope we nailed it. But they also have more normal middle names. Okay, right. In case.

I like them. They're so fun. Thank you. I feel like I haven't met them before, but like they all sound like they have a personality based on their name. They all have a very big personality. I like that the girls' names, the two banks and towns, they kind of have like last name sounding names, which feels strong for girls.

And that was kind of my goal. Nice. I love it. I've been amazing to talk to, truly. I've loved this conversation. I feel like I've learned so much about you. I feel like I feel closer to you just from how open you've been, how vulnerable you've been. We have a couple of games, as I promised you segments to finish off our interview. So I'm going to bring them out now. So there's a couple that we invented recently that we absolutely love. And so there's two games. The first one is called Would You Rather? And it's the Disney-era edition. Oh, yes. Usually we play with, like, disgusting food or, like, horrible things, but let's go. This is a lot easier. So would you rather have to say, hi, I'm Hillary Duff and you're watching Disney Channel, every time you introduce yourself, or have the Lizzie McGuire animated character in your head

at all times? Oh, she lives in their rent-free, baby. I think I would have her living, I mean, I've accepted her in my head, so I'm choosing the latter. Okay. That makes sense? That's good. We can't see it. You'd have to do it. Okay, second one. Walk every red carpet now in low-rise jeans or a scarf worn as a top. No. No. So my option is low-rise jeans on the red carpet or a scarf as a top, a dress skirt as a top. Oh my gosh. That is so impossible. This is forever. This is for eternity?

This is, yeah, yeah, it's would you rather. Let's say for the next 12 months, let's say for the next 12 months. That works for me. I'm going low-rise jeans. Okay, there we go. All right, perfect. I was being kind. I was being kind.

Would you rather have come clean play every time it starts raining or have wake up as your alarm clock every morning? Oh my God. Well, I feel like every time it's raining and I open Instagram, Come Clean is playing. In your head? Yeah, but the way that I'm going to skirt around this is that we, live in L.A. and it doesn't rain very often, so I'm choosing that one. Good answer. These are great

responses. I love that. Okay, very good. There's so many more. I'll have to send you some of these because I need to get through some of these questions. But this is the last one of the, would you rather Disney-era edition. Okay. Would you rather bring back ultra-thin eyebrows or foundation over the lips? Oh, you definitely didn't come up with that one. I didn't. Whoa, I think, oh, that's so tough. I think I'm going to go with ultra-thin eyebrows. It might be a vibe. I think so.

I hope, like, the 12-month-rule can be applied to this answer as well. I'm going to go thin eyebrow. I never want foundation on my lips again. That was, like, a must before I went out. I would just, like, blot out my lips. Now we're, like, all crayonning to make our lips bigger. That's fascinating, isn't it? Hence, 12 months makes sense, because you never know what could come back.

That's true. Okay, this game's called gut reaction, so you have to just finish the sentence. Okay. One thing my kids make fun of me for is getting gotten by AI. What do you mean? Oh, you'll literally be like, this is real. Oh, yeah. I'm like, look at this.

My son's like, cats don't jump on trampolins. So that's, you're insane. I'm like, right, got it, got it, got it. It is getting scary. I know. It is getting scary. Me and my wife. to like giggle about it right now and some of the things that we see are like funny but no it's

I don't like it at all yeah yeah it's scary all right uh the most cringe moment of me on the internet i wish could be erased is oh gosh the most cringe moment of me on the internet honestly I probably felt like it was the with love dance for a long time but now you've owned it we're back baby I love that it's it's been all over my ticket Turkfeed. Like, I've not seen anything else. I've been showing it to everyone. I'm like, yeah, it's all I've been seeing and sharing. The first, I'm not joking, I'm not joking. First artist you'd want next to you on a long tour bus ride. Probably Taylor Swift, because I bet those buses are nice. Oh, you want to go on her bus. Yeah, this was on your tour bus. Oh, okay.

Well, she would probably give me all the tips for tour because she hasn't stopped. Absolutely. Yeah, those, those, I mean, tours are hard work. I've never done anything. nearly as long as any musician on the planet. I did like 40 shows two years ago and I was like, this is insane. I know. It's really hard. Unbelievable.

I was just gone for 12 days and I almost like cried when I just like saw my pillows on my bed and I was like, oh, it's going to be a good night. I get my pillows back. Hillary, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. So Hillary Duff, these are your final five.

The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Do you because everyone else has taken? Great advice. Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Never grow up. Third question. Your favorite thing about Matt that you don't say to him enough?

He's really handsome. There you go, Matt. Yeah. You can play this as many times as you want. I know. He's really, I mean, I just, I love looking at him. And I think that he's such a funny guy that it's easy to. to just be like, yeah, he's so funny.

He's like the best. It's easy to, he keeps us laughing. Like, he's just like really a fun, funny, like, goof. But he's so handsome. I love it. Fourth question. Will we ever get a Lizzie McGuire reboot? I can't answer this in one sentence.

But I can say that right now it's not in the cards. I have a world tour to go on. And that's going to take me a few years, I think. but when I think about Lizzie, you know, I was really excited thinking about her at 30 and going through 30-year-old things. And now I can't really see her at 40. Maybe I could start to see her around like 5560. And I think that's interesting. That is interesting.

Yeah. We'd love to see that. I love it. All right. Very good answer. Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? I wanted to say like loving each other, but you don't have to love everyone.

You come into contact with and you don't have to like trust everyone. And you also don't have to accept. Like that's the other thing. Like accept, accept everyone. But I think that there needs to be some guidelines. Do you know what I mean? Like the basic things. Yes.

I wish there was just acceptance of like everybody being like created equal and accepted for. skin tone or gender or whatever but there has to be some rules in place for like bad people so I guess using common sense with acceptance Hillary Duff, thank you so much so excited for everyone to hear your album so excited

I hope I get to come see you on tour I'm really excited to see you perform live let's go I'm gonna keep you updated I would love that this is such a joy It's such a treat. Thank you for being so open and honest. I hope you got to share everything you wanted to share. I hope you feel seen and heard and so grateful that you trusted me and trusted our platform to come and be so open.

So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. No, I really enjoyed him. Yeah. Thank you. If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.

There's blessing and the breaking. and every moment that you encounter in your life, even if it's just road rage. This is an IHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.