On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Humble the Poet ON: How to Get Out Your Own Way to Find Love & Breaking Society's Common Myths About Relationships

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

Today, I am talking to Kanwer Singh aka Humble the Poet. Humble is a toronto-bred mc/spoken word artist with an aura that embodies the diversity and resiliency of one of the world’s most unique cities. He stimulates audiences with ideas that challenge conventional wisdom and go against the grain, with dynamic live sets that shake conventions and minds at the same time. Humble's latest EP titled Righteous/Ratchet features the first single H.A.I.R, a celebration of women of all shapes, sizes, hair and walks of life. His self directed video for H.A.I.R has amassed almost 2 million views since its release. The video features YouTube sensation and longtime collaborator, Lilly Singh. His first book Unlearn: 101 Simple Truths For A Better Life was published through Indigo Press in October 2017 and became Heather's Pick and has stayed on the Globe & Mail Bestsellers list since its release. Humble's next book Things No One Else Can Teach Us was released in the fall of 2019. Humble emphasizes the importance of making the relationship you have with yourself the best among all the relationships you currently have. This is because knowing your own self worth will make setting boundaries easier for you and for the people around you. We exchange thoughts on what makes us resilient, why self respect matters more than self-esteem, the constant validation we seek from others, and what makes love so simple.     What We Discuss:00:00:00 Intro00:04:54 Why do we try to impress others?00:06:46 Self-esteem versus self respect00:12:27 What makes us resilient?00:17:04 Not everybody’s going to like you00:20:27 Be in relationship with yourself first00:25:36 There can’t be love if there’s resentment00:34:14 How to develop a healthy relationship? 00:40:21 We are attracted to what’s familiar, not what’s healthy00:54:46 Not getting a reward is not a punishment00:58:47 When you’re in a romantic relationship with someone01:06:45 Love is simpleEpisode ResourcesHumble the Poet | WebsiteHumble the Poet | FacebookHumble the Poet | TwitterHumble the Poet | InstagramHumble the Poet | YouTubeWant to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When my daughter ran off to hop trains, I was terrified I'd never see her again, so I followed her into the train yard. This is what it sounds like inside the box-top. And into the city of the rails, there I found a surprising world, so brutal and beautiful that it changed me. But the rails do that to everyone. There is another world out there, and if you want to play with the devil, you're going to find them down in the rail yard. I'm Danielle Morton. Come with me to find out what waits for us and the city of the rails.

Listen to the city of the rails on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Or, cityoftherails.com. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season, and yet we're constantly discovering new secrets. The variety of them continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share ten incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience,

and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. Listen to season eight of Family Secrets on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade, our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time?

I'm Jemma Speg, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The Psychology of Your 20s hosted by me, Jemma Speg. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. You don't win love. You don't find love. The love is already there.

The analogy I like to use is love is the breeze. And the work that we're doing is to open ourselves. I struggled in my last situation because I could not receive love. It wasn't that there wasn't love there. It was my inability to open my sales because of the walls, the lack of vulnerability, my need to win in an argument.

All of these ideas I realized that it was me. I had my door closed, I had my sales closed to the breeze that was always there. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to become a happier, healthier and more healed. Now one of the things I love about the show is sitting down with a friend who's an incredible

thinker, a thought leader, a philosopher, a poet. It provides a very special conversation when I get to sit with someone that I hang out with a lot offline, but then we get to turn the cameras on and the recording devices on and do something online. I hope you get to hear that friendship, that brotherhood in today's conversation. And I find there's something really special about sitting down with someone who has really interesting ideas, has taken the time to document them and systematize them into a book. I'm speaking about one of my dearest friends, Humble the Poet, a Canadian-born rapper,

spoken-word artist, designer, poet, internationally best-selling author, and former elementary school teacher. What began as reciting spoken word poetry and coffee shops to impress girls, evolved into creative adventures that has spanned the last 10 years, crossing genres, mediums and oceans. His first two releases unlearn and things nobody can teach us have become international bestsellers. And today we're talking about his new book How How to Be Loved, Simple Truths for going easier on yourself,

embracing imperfection and loving your way to a better life. I want you to go and grab a copy of this book right now, order it right now. We're putting the link in the captions and in the show notes. How to be loved by Hum humble, the poet, humble. It is so great to have you here, man, officially. Yes, thank you so much for having me.

You're, you're included in my bio, ping pong frenemy. Oh yeah, yeah, ping pong frenemy, yeah, I mean, well, we shouldn't go there. We shouldn't go there. I mean, the only official game we've had, I won. And that's why I think pong frenemy. You won, you won that pair of very old headphones that was the prize.

It was a birthday party, and our friend found a pair of headphones and made that the prize, and then in the first round, you knocked me out. No, it was, so when we play unofficially, humble beats me in ping pong all the time, like I don't think I've ever beat in you when we've been hanging out ever. It doesn't count, you haven't beat me. It doesn't count, yeah, but then the official game Like I don't think I've ever been and you when we've been hanging out ever. Yeah, it doesn't count. You haven't been. It doesn't count. Yeah, but then the official game

I won and then I give the headphones away to someone who I thought deserved them more. I was lucky that day. I can't believe it. I was on some lucky street. Well, yeah, it was a party. Yeah, it was a party. I farted harder than you. So you were a little bit tipsy. So I don't drink. So I got to wear. Yeah, there was a few competitive advantages. I love it, but humble, man, we've been friends for like, I'm like, four years now. I feel like since we started having our conversations. Yeah, completely.

And it's been beautiful to like just, you know, I think as two people in an industry where it's busy and we're doing so much, somehow I think we found a way to have these really meaningful conversations. I remember I was at your house earlier this year, at your apartment earlier this year, and we were hanging out, and then the next day, everyone was like,

well what time did Jay leave or what happened? Because everyone, I always leave early to go to sleep early, generally, is what I do. And I was at your house to like 2 a.m. And everyone was like, how. And I was at your house till 2 a.m. and everyone was like, how did you get J to stay out till 2 a.m.? And we went, all we did was have deep, meaningful, thoughtful conversation. Completely.

It was, so you're one of the few people that I can actually do that with. So I cherish our friendship very deeply. I mean, likewise, as I said, this is the first conversation I'm not holding a no pet. I just sit here and try to pick your brain as much as I can and try to learn as much as I can. And I appreciate you always make time for me.

Always man. Always, but I'm so glad you wrote this book, bro, because you know I'm obsessed with love. Yes. My new book's about love. Yes. But I think when you're obsessed with something and you get deep into it, it's really interesting to hear

from someone else who's obsessed with it and gotten really deep into it And I want to talk to you about What we said in the intro about the idea of how you used to do spoken word to impress girls Yeah, and I think the idea of impressing someone is such a big part of how love starts Like I can relate to that so much like the extent I've gone through To impress women in my previous life, it's insane and walk me through,

why do we try to impress people that we may be attracted to or maybe not even attracted to? Yeah, I think, you know, I think for thousands of years, we lived in smaller communities and we only understand ourself in relation to everybody else. You know, you walk into your family, you know, where you are in the hierarchy. And then we, you know, many of us,

including only two generations ago, have came from families and small villages. So it's like you find your definition and your value in relation to others. And in modern life in these big metropolis cities, it's not as relevant, but that need to be seen, that need to be validated, is completely there. And I think that's where we have a lot of challenges in realizing love.

It's because we spend so much time trying to feed our self-esteem, not realizing that love comes from self-respect, which is way more internal. And it's completely, you know, you're absolutely right. Like even me doing poetry back then, it was like, I was writing about things as an artist that mattered to me and I was exploring concepts, but my only motivation to share it was to get attention. And you start to feed off of that. And it gets really interesting now because we live in a world where that attention, there's

a metric beside it. You can count your likes, you can count your comments, you can count your followers. So now it's like, the world suddenly tells you who to be if that attention matters. You're like, oh, I did a post, I didn't get enough engagement. So let's go ahead and post something else. And then, oh, this really did a good, got a lot of engagement. Let me make five more things like that. And it's killing our ability to discover ourselves

and our authentic selves. And instead, it's making us live for display purposes, which is going to continually close pathways to love. This is why I love talking to you. I'm loving this already. There's so many things that you said that I'm like, yes, I want to talk about this. I love what you just talked about. I saw you post about this a few months ago about the difference between self-esteem and self-respect. And that really hit a nerve with me when you first posted about it. Walk us

through how you define them differently and why that's useful in this journey of to love. So for me, self-esteem is external, self-respect is internal. And I feel like the ways we go about it don't have to be much different. When you keep your promises to yourself, you build self-respect, and I think either you're chasing one or the other,

the more self-respect you develop, the less self-esteem you're gonna chase. The more self-esteem you develop, the less self-esteem you're going to chase. The more self-esteem you chase, the less self-respect is going to be in the room. They kind of can't hold hands. So for me, you start to realize that it's a relationship. It just depends on how you're going to spend and devote that energy. The challenge with self-esteem and it being external is there's just way too many people with way too many opinions on who you can be. Like that Dita Von Tees quote, you can be the juiciest peach in the world. They're just some people who don't like peaches. And that can have an impact on people.

And a lot of people are negatively impacted by the comments on their social media, by how well they received when people are looking at them or what have you. So what I'm realizing is as we focus on self respect, to me, which is a honoring your commitments, doing hard things, focusing on progress, and not perfection. That's a really big one. I think when we have these ideas

of what we think love is, it's oftentimes not love, attention, control, power, admiration, beauty, success. These things are all external things that we can receive from the world. And they feel like love, and they give us a lot of immediate gratification. I refer to them as bootleg love.

Like when you go to the outlet mall, you gotta fake Gucci boat. And you know, you get a little rush from it immediately, but you keep thirsting for more. You know, it puts you in further scarcity. So when we focus on that, it's a never ending journey. Whereas when we develop more self respect, we feel a level of peace.

It's not, instead of getting everything you want, you start to want less. Yeah. And I think for me, that's the really big difference. And self respect can be literally developed through anything that you commit to do. And the more difficult, the better. I say, do hard things for me.

It's a cold shower in the morning. And when we focus on progress, especially as we're entering a new year, it's really important to set intentions instead of expectations. Because oftentimes we say, oh, I want to lose 10 pounds. Now you're suddenly told yourself, I'm not good enough as I am.

And when I lose 10 pounds, magically I'm going lose 10 pounds. Now you suddenly have told yourself, I'm not good enough as I am. And when I lose 10 pounds, magically, I'm gonna feel better. Instead of doing that, because you're harming your relationship with yourself, focus on progress. I want to have a healthier breakfast. And maybe my breakfast has 10 different elements to it. I'm gonna switch out one at a time.

Or I wanna wake up earlier. Let's say I'm waking up at noon every day and I want to get to 6 a.m. You can't just jump from noon to 6. Let's focus on progress. Let's start with 11.45. Slowly work our way down. Progress can be endless.

Whereas I think society, especially in capitalism, they need to sell us stuff to make us feel like we matter. And the message they keep sending us is chase perfection and Perfect doesn't exist and perfect is the last place love would exist because the only way to develop a deep connection with somebody is through your vulnerabilities If you were perfect, you can't be vulnerable So for me vulnerability comes through self respect being brave enough to admit You know where you're difficult to be with what you you struggle with, what your challenges are, and then that opens up someone else's opportunity to do the same,

and then you connect on a deeper level. Yeah, I want to reflect on some of the things that came to my mind as you were talking. It's interesting, isn't it? Like, we say we want love, but actually we want attention. We say we want love, but actually we want validation. We say we want love, but actually we want attention. We say we want love, but actually we want validation. We say we want love, but actually we just want compliments. So we don't actually know what love is or want love because we're chasing it through these other forms of cheap adoration or cheap affection. One of the things that hit me about what you just said

about vulnerability and this pursuit of perfection when actually imperfection is at the core of love and relationships is I was coaching a CEO recently and we were working through some of their mental health challenges. It was really interesting to me because I was encouraging them to share that with their team. I was saying, you should share the challenges you're going through because it will be a healthy thing to do. And they said to me, they said, Jay, how can I share my challenges? I'm the strong one. I'm the brave one. I'm the one who has it all together. And I said to them, I said, what's stronger than you telling them

your truth? Like what's braver than you being vulnerable with that person? Like there's nothing more strong. There's no greater act of courage. And when they went and told their team, they followed through on the advice, the team's unanimous response was us too. Like they were going through the same stuff and all of a sudden they felt connected. So I guess what I love about what you're saying, when you talk about like not chasing perfection, when you talk about doing hard things,

there was one more thing you said. It would be- Honoring your commitments. Honoring your commitments. So those three things that you mentioned, to me, that's actually what self love is. Like we keep her in self love and you've talked about self respect, which I think is a really great pivot and pathway. But those three habits are really deeply important when we're alone and when we're single

and when we're not in a relationship. Let's talk about why doing hard things is so important in the pursuit of love. Because I don't think those things, a lot of what you just mentioned, I'm like, is this a habits book? You're like, you're helping people with their day-to-day habits. But there's a connection there that I don't think people see. Yeah, one of my favorite mantras for myself is an easy day at the gym was not a good day at the gym. And I start to apply that to life. An easy day of life is not a good day. I think what we have in this society is we sell convenience and we sell comfort. And both of those

don't inspire growth or evolution or for us to unlock a better version of ourselves. So, voluntarily doing hard things, you know, prepares us when hard things find us. You know, I think, for example, you know, when, you know, as an entrepreneur, it's a very challenging job. But then, when you're an entrepreneur, entrepreneur you understand that hey money's not guaranteed I don't get a salary every two weeks Nothing's promised to me so then when you come across a situation where things shut down layoff's recession Well, have you you're better prepared, you know life's gonna throw curveballs what we can do when things are good as practice

Our swing so for me doing hard things is picking a challenge and My personal But for me doing hard things is picking a challenge and my personal equation is one foot and what I know, one foot and what's familiar and what's unfamiliar and what's uncomfortable. So I'm not overdoing it. If I want to learn to swim, I don't jump into the ocean the first day. We started in the kitty pool and then we work our way up and picking things voluntarily that are difficult, whatever it is and understanding that even for us, you know It took 10 years to learn how to read there was a systematic program put in school for us to do it

Forget that. Yeah, yeah, wow and we didn't have we didn't have self-esteem issues or confidence issues back then being like I don't know the alphabet. I shouldn't even bother or when we were babies trying to learn how to walk You know, we got up and we fell back down we We didn't give up. It's not for me. But it's adults because we don't have somebody kind of lottering over us, we may start something, we're not okay with sucking at it in the beginning. We don't see it as fun.

But, you know, I play a lot of video games. If I drop 90 bucks on a video game and it's too easy, then it wasn't worth it for me. You know, we need challenges. We need to, we need challenges. We need resistance. We need a push and pull. We need that tug of war. Because that's going to make us stronger.

It's going to make us more resilient. Sitting in the ice makes you resilient, helps you recalibrate your fighter flight. So now your fighter flight isn't triggered through an awkward conversation or an email or a text message or a bill that comes. You know, it gets back to where it needs to be, which is important.

So I think for me, it's recognizing that it's not chasing comfort, it's not chasing just simplicity, it's not chasing convenience. It's being like, okay, there is a harder way of doing things, let's do that for the sake of doing it. Because when the difficulties of life find us, we're much more resilient and much more prepared. And I think for me, that allows me to realize

my value as an individual, what I'm capable of, and how I can spread that and be of service to other people, which to me is a massive language of love. Wow. Yeah. I mean, when I'm hearing you speak, it's like that getting comfortable in discomfort is almost like the number one skill needed in life because I feel like most of, as you said, what society is trying to teach us in your words, convenience and comfort, and it's trying to avoid discomfort. We're trying to avoid it, we're trying to dodge it, we're trying to hope that how can I avoid any sort of pain, struggle, discomfort?

And while you're not saying to invite it, but we've got to get comfortable in that uncertainty and comfortable with that pain. And that applies to anything from dating through the breakups, through to loving ourselves, of course, through the journey we're on One of the things you said in the book that I wanted to pick out was Feeling left out and rejected brings up those ancient anxieties of danger Yeah, and I think that's one of the biggest discomforts is feeling left out and rejected like when you talk about being uncomfortable and rejected. Like when you talk about being uncomfortable, when you go to an event and you feel like you'd rather lock yourself into a bathroom because you don't want to be around anyone. Or forget

that you didn't even get invited in the first place. And sometimes you get upset because you didn't get invited even if you didn't want to go there. So talk to me through that sentence, feeling left out and rejected brings up those ancient anxieties of danger. Again, if we were ostracized from our communities back, you know, generations ago, it actually meant our death, you know, and that's in our programming now, which makes us in modern life prioritize likeability over everything. And the challenge with that is so many things that create pathways of love and allow us to realize love won't necessarily make us likeable to everybody.

If you want to establish boundaries, for example, establishing boundaries will reduce the amount of people that want to be around you because so many people enjoy crossing boundaries or find power in that or find significance in that. But it's important to establish boundaries. It's important to show your teeth. I have a chapter in the book called Love is Showing Your Teeth. It's important to let people know if they've crossed the line. It's important to let people know if they've hurt you.

It's important to let people know if they're doing things that you're not okay with. Because if you don't, you absorb it inside instead. And then you fall into this world of resentment which to me I think is one of the darkest places we can be and you can't express or realize love in this place of resentment. So our fears of not being legable, you know, as I said in the subtitle of this book is going easy on yourself. This is in our programming. We want to be liked, we want to be accepted. And we are in a modern society which has given us scores for our likability and acceptance.

But that will not necessarily help us realize more love. And we have to see the difference. Not everybody is going to like you. And that's okay. And focusing on that will allow us to build deeper connections with people that do matter. Going back to this idea of the CEO and the vulnerability, I was raised in a household that subtly told me to suck it up, be self-regulated. Now, I also viewed vulnerability as a weakness. I viewed having a romantic partner that complained as just being naggy and weak, not realizing that my inability to have empathy, you know, was because of the fortresses I made. I made a fortress to protect myself, but really it was a prison. And then when somebody came to me that I cared about with their problems, I wanted to instantly solve it. I thought that's what men do, men solve problems, were a solution oriented, but the, what I realized from myself was, no, they were sharing

their pain. It was triggering my pain. I didn't want to feel my pain. So I want to shut them up. And the three ways I was trying to shut them up was either not speaking to them, trying to solve their problems or saying something really stupid. Well, there's other people going through way worse than you, like have some perspective. And then slowly realizing through this journey that empathy is feeling their pain, not saying anything, just giving them a hug and being in that pain together. And for me, like, these are very recent realizations for me as I'm trying to figure out how to deepen my connection with human beings as well. And I don't hold it against anybody for being raised to think that vulnerability is weakness, but you are absolutely right. The strongest thing in my connection with human beings as well. And I don't hold it against anybody for being raised to think that vulnerability is a weakness,

but you are absolutely right. The strongest thing you can do is be vulnerable and admit where you're having trouble. That's ultimate strength. And I'm glad to hear that that story worked out for him. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But I mean, you just said something again, interesting, which I actually had known down was,

where is this? Oh yeah, you just said something again, interesting, which I actually had known it down was, where is this? Oh yeah, you referenced the need to sit with your pain in order to experience love. Yes. I don't think we naturally put those thoughts together, and that's what I've always loved about what you do with ideas is, I don't think we kind of, like when you hear that, you're like,

well, I need to unpack that. Yeah. Because you wouldn't necessarily think those two things correlate. The inspiration behind this entire journey was a relationship that I was in that didn't run the course. And all I would do in isolation, especially during the pandemic, was beat myself up over it as if I had somehow failed.

So there was a lot of reflecting and thinking about the what it could have showed us. And sitting, not realizing the subconscious, because whether we're aware of a trauma, whether we're aware of a discomfort, we feel it. And we're going to feel, and then most often going back to modern society, there are so many convenient options to suppress that temporarily. So for me, I was living that life. I was, if I felt anxious, I would go and have a slice of pizza, or I would go and,

you know, watch television or go on my phone. And then you started to realize that so often, the only reason we get involved with somebody is because we're outsourcing the antidote to our loneliness. Now I realize that loneliness isn't having people around. Loneliness is a lack of connection. And I could contribute to why we have such a high divorce rate because people are getting together, but they're not getting together as two individuals getting together with these kind of romanticized ideas of you're my better half, you complete me.

Humans don't need completing. Humans aren't half a person. And I think, but these are ideas that are sold to us, they're sold to us in media, they're sold to, you know, every single famous couple of the Ross and Rachel's, they have to be people with very unhealthy attachment styles to be entertaining.

Because the most healthy relationships we know are not very eventful. They wouldn't make for entertaining television. I don't think it's a conspiracy that these television shows exist. They're just entertaining us. Yeah. And I think realizing that for me,

having a relationship with yourself is being alone. Being alone isn't sitting in bed on your phone. Being alone is being absolutely alone, doing absolutely nothing, which for me is also a form of meditation. And for me, it's my favorite form of meditation because it's a form that doesn't require you to ask, am I doing this right? Because there's no right way of doing nothing. Instantly, you start to feel anxiety

because you're not stimulated. The dopamine is not coming. And but the longer you do that, the more grounded you become with yourself. And now you're in a position to be in a relationship where you can serve. The book has love stories and there's one love story about somebody I connected with wanted to pursue. They explained to me they don't have time and I was upset and I was like,

look, if you don't make time for people then you're never going to have anybody, don't you get lonely. And she goes, I do get lonely. And then I said, so what are you going to do when you're lonely? She goes, I dance. It was when I'm lonely, I dance. And then I connect with myself. Wow, that's super mature. Yeah. Yeah. I was on the phone like, I guess I got to, I guess I better go dance too. You're like, I like dancing too. Let's dance together. Yeah. And I left her alone after that, because she was very clear with her boundaries and what have you, and what you realize is we want connection, the fast food version of connection, self-connection,

would be self-pity. Nobody understands what I'm going through except for me. Nobody's ever had their heart broken, I'm all by myself, I just wanna be able to complain about it. But something deep to actually create an authentic connection with just yourself can be able to complain about it. But something deep to actually create an authentic connection with just yourself can be dancing to feel your body. How many of us, when is the last time we've looked at ourselves in the mirror and looked at our body and were not critical and looked at our body from

a perspective of gratitude? Like how many of us have already chosen our favorite body part, even though our body has been with us since day zero. And even when we make poor choices, our body tries as best to adjust. We have bad posture, our body tries to adjust. We don't put good things inside our body. It tries as best to adjust. This relationship with ourselves, our physical body can be the first step to creating an authentic pathway of love, which can then inform the relationships we can have with everybody else. You know, this conversation is just, in a beautiful way, as always, just connecting so many dots that are coming up, and I want to talk about a few things.

One thing that came up was this idea of what you're saying, setting boundaries. And I think one of the challenges that we have with setting boundaries is we want to be perceived as nice. And when we set a boundary, we think we're going to be perceived as unkind. And so we'd rather not set the boundaries so that again, someone likes me and thinks that I'm a nice person. But inside I'm going, God, I wish I wasn't around this person. I wish I wasn't here. I wish I wasn't doing that. Why do you think so often, or what are your thoughts about

how we compromise our own values and our own boundaries in order to appear more nice and likeable? Like that seems to be the biggest disassociation for myself. Yeah, I think it's the short term gratification versus the long term. Right. I think the short term gratification,

for me specifically, I can say, I became someone that people came to with their problems and I felt value that I was needed. And it took a therapist to help point out where she said, listen, the reason you actually want people, that you are receiving people, is because it's such a one-sided conversation that it gives you the impression

that you have a relationship, but you're never vulnerable. Because they're just telling you their problems, they don't even notice that they're not asking you about yours. And you like that, because that helps you avoid being vulnerable, which feels uncomfortable for you,

but she goes in the long run, which you don't realize, and you said it, it builds resentment. And there can't be love if there's resentment. Not too long ago, in the heart of the Amazon Rainforest, this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life. I saw it and I saw, oh wow, this is a very unusual situation.

It was cacao, the tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen, or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun fight. I mean, you saw the stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate.

We're all lost. It was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind, so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle, and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building armed with machetes.

And we've heard all sorts of things that, you know, somebody got shot over this. Sometimes I think, all, all these for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions while chocolate on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey it's Debbie Brown and my podcast deeply well is a soft place to land on your wellness journey. I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental health around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey. From guided meditations to deep conversations with some of the world's most gifted experts

in self-care, trauma, psychology, spirituality, astrology, and even intimacy. Here is where you'll pick up the tools to live as your highest self. Make better choices. Heal and have more joy. My work is rooted in advanced meditation, metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma-informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves, the more we are able to bring our creativity to life. And live our purpose, which leads to community impact and higher consciousness for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow,

to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well is available now on the I Heart RadioRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Big love. Namaste. In the 1680s, a feisty opera singer burned down a nunnery and stole away with her secret lover. In 1810, a pirate queen negotiated her cruiseway to total freedom, with all their loot. During World War II, a flirtatious gambling double agent helped keep D-Day a secret from the Germans.

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So what happens is this feeling of I need to be needed, which again, if we think about how we were raised, a lot of us were raised to find our value when we were needed. A lot of us made these decisions and decided our pathway of life when we were at kids when we were thinking very binary. It was either this or that, black and white. And as we became adults and we can see life a lot more complex, we never updated our policies. And so what happens is life is more complex, but we're looking at it through such a simple shade.

And this idea is like, okay, and when we were kids too, whenever something negative happened, we absorbed it as if it was our fault. I have a story in the book, my mom, I once got sick and I vomited all over my bathroom as a little child. And my mother was awakened from that. She had work, she got upset with me.

And I blamed myself for that. Not having context as an adult, realizing, wait, you know, she works on that shift. He's not a horrible person. You didn't mess up. It's just everybody can be cranky and why have you. And now, you know, she works on that shift. She's not a horrible person. You didn't mess up. It's just everybody can be cranky and we'll have you. And now, you know, making jokes about my mom because the grandmother version of my mom is completely sweet.

She has time. She's not working anymore, no more survival mode. But me internalizing that story, that narrative stuck with me up until today. We've had conversations about gratitude versus guilt, you know, and my journey as an artist crashing on people's couches, people giving places to stay, hearing my mother's voice, don't be a mooch, fill up their fridge full of groceries,

make sure they know even for, you know, the help that you've done with me in this journey, what can I give Jay, what can I give Jay? And then questioning, is that authentic gratitude or am I just operating from a place of guilt? And if it's not authentic gratitude, then it's not being done with love. And then if it's come from a place of guilt, that's usually related to fear, which is definitely not from a place of love. And I think going through that journey, I think, is extremely important.

So when we fear being unlikable, we're closing off an option in a pathway to realize love for some short term peace from our anxiety. It's like pleasure. Like we're chasing pleasure to Medicaid or lack of peace. Yeah. When the peace would come from establishing boundaries, there's going to be an uncomfortable transition period, but you'll get to a point where the people who love you

view your boundaries as an instruction manual on how to be with you and how to have a healthy relationship with you. Because what happens is for the people who have boundaries and you respect their boundaries, they will stay in your lives. Instead of you just trying to avoid somebody who always tries to overstep your boundaries. Yeah, I mean, what you just said, there was so powerful. I was interviewing someone the other day. And they asked me the question. They said, interviewing someone the other day and they asked me the question they said well what's your working style so they're like what's you how do you like to be communicated with and how do you like to be informed of updates and things like that.

This is a great interview question like for someone to ask me i'm interviewing them but they're asking me that and i got to tell them what are your pet, what are your pet peeves when it comes to communicating? And so like I got to walk them through What I realized was they made me feel really comfortable and confident with them because I was like wow this person's really mature and knows that I'm not perfect. I'm not always gonna be available They need to understand a few things about me to work well with me What what was demanded of me though was self awareness in order to infer that to them. And so what I find here is that what happens in relationships or in love is that we don't feel that way.

We feel that person should be perfect. They should already understand me. I should understand them. And we're gonna do whatever it takes to love each other. And the other problem is even if you ask that question, chances are a lot of people don't have the self awareness to share what their peeps are. So the girl who says to you, Hey, I dance when I'm lonely, that's high self awareness. Right?

Like that's the fact that there was an answer there that was satisfying to you and that almost left you speechless to some degree. But completely left me speechless. Yeah, it's like, oh wow. So I find that there's two sides. One is our openness that I'm going to get into a relationship where we're both not perfect. Yeah. The other is the other person having the knowledge of themselves. Yes. And it feels like we're lacking in both right now.

I think definitely, and I think one of the reasons is because of our ideas around love. the knowledge of themselves. And it feels like we're lacking in both right now. I think definitely, and I think one of the reasons is because of our ideas around love. We don't have to teach somebody that imperfection is okay in the world of love. Every single person we currently love, we could probably list out their imperfections. And then the second question is,

do any of those imperfections disqualify them from your love? You know, also, you know, the analogy that I always think about too is like the first time I held my baby niece I had never met her before. I had never had an interaction before, but just holding her filled me up with love So you don't even need history. You don't even need interaction. So oftentimes we have this skewed idea that love is something you earn, love is something you win, love is something you qualify for, love is at the end of the rainbow. And I think these ideas motivate these types of actions, where I have to appear perfect. Another thing I realized about myself recently, and I think this is for a lot of men who are often seen as distant or avoidant.

As we spend so much time on a date trying to win over the other person, charm them, make them feel like we're really worth it. That we spend no time looking at the other person to see, is this a good fit for me? Totally. We get over their wall, we penetrate their fortress, we make them feel safe. Then once they communicate to us that they like us, then we begin this process. I'm like, wait, so true. Are they for me? And then also we are viewing a human being and then also we get this Realizations subconsciously or consciously that the further connect with this person, I'm gonna have to be vulnerable

And then that raises anxiety and and then we pull away. And I think often women find that confusing. It's like, I thought he was into me. He was into the idea of you liking him without asking himself if you're a good fit. And I think before we enter any of these situations, we have to do that. And I know the activities and the practices

for that will build self-awareness. And it really is going deeper than what we normally do. Oh, that is so well explained. All right, so that is me, man. That is so well explained because love bombing is such a big thing right now. And I did that in my teens massively. Like that's how I spent the majority of my teens

where I would be interested in a girl only to win her over, to then retreat as exactly like you said. So I can relate to that so deeply. How does, and generally, I don't know, I've heard a lot of men admit to that, or at least men that I've opened relationships with where people will say that, I don't know how much women do that. Like, I just haven't heard that and I don't wanna build gender stereotypes or anything, but I guess as the person in the relationship on the receiving end of that, how do you know? Because it's somewhat a mutual exchange, right?

So I'll give an example of what I mean and I wanna unravel this with you because I think that's very common. The amount of friends I have that are girls recently that have said that's happened to them. Numerous. So what's happening is I'm trying to win you over, but you're allowing me to win you over, you're also not doing the checking as to whether I'm for real or questioning that. So I guess what I'm asking is, if you're on the receiving end of someone love bombing you and trying to impress you and trying to win you over,

what do you do in order to make sure that you are actually taking things slower? Because what ends up happening is you fall in love too fast, that person then walks away and then you go, oh, but I thought we had something. So how do you avoid that? I think you have to be intentional with what you're looking for.

Okay, if I don't, you know, if I don't know you, I'm gonna love bomb you based off what I think your values are. You know, let's say, oh, I think based on the fact that she's wearing a pair of expensive shoes, I need to seem like I have a lot of money, so I'm gonna pull out the Rolex. I'm gonna pull out the nice card.

That's what I think matters to her. I don't know. And maybe for her, she's looking for the spark, which I think is a whole other conversation than herself. I think the best thing to do is abandon this idea of the spark and instead actually ask yourself, what do you want in a person? So the activity that I was required to do in my therapy was,

I had to relive my entire love life. I had to write it all down. And then when I read it, anytime I felt warm or I felt some love I had to highlight it. And that's how I began to figure out what I specifically want. I think, generically, everybody kind of wants the same thing. Well, everyone goes like, good looking, good sense of humor. Like everyone says the same thing. I literally generically everybody kind of wants the same things. Well everyone goes like good looking good sense of humor

Like everyone says the same thing. I literally went on the streets a couple of weeks ago Or maybe a month ago now and I was asking you what are the top three things you're looking for? Look for someone and they were like a nice smile good sense of humor and like I was like really like literally Everyone said the same thing. So yeah, sorry carry on completely But and again, I'm guilty of that as well. But the next question is, you're focused on the details and not the feelings. So the next question should be,

what does a nice mile make you feel? What do good looks make you feel? What does knowing somebody is rich make you feel? That's your actual list. That's great. No, like, oh, I want him to be rich. Why? Well, that's gonna make me feel like I'm secure.

You know, that makes me feel I'm taking care of. So what you want, it's not someone who's rich, you want someone that you know that take care of you. Now, there can be people who may not have the juice he has bank account, but their energy, their effort, their determination, you can just see it in their eyes, you can see it on their day-to-day activity. You can always put your money on that person,

they're always gonna show up, that'll scratch that same itch. And I think when we get very specific with what we care about and how it makes us feel, now that love bombing just won't work. Yeah, it's serious. Because they're going based off of things that they think are kind of generic.

And as I said, we have this generic idea of what beauty is, you know, but beauty isn't that. You know, for some person might be watching me right now, think I'm super handsome, somebody else may not. And that's completely okay. Everyone's allowed to have their own taste. But the feelings of what we're actually chasing, even when we think about a person of the past and ex,

we don't miss them, we missed a way they made us feel. We can carry that feeling forward and require that as we get to know somebody. Can you establish all those feelings and those markers in a first day? No, and I don't think you should. You know, I think it is important to be open to people, give them that opportunity

and see if they can elicit those feelings. And I don't think love bombing someone can be clever enough to love bombing you through those feelings. Yeah. Because love bombing is not going to tap into a pathway of love, it's going to tap into this fast food version of it, the attention, the validation,

making you seem like you matter. I read one of these posts recently that said, listen, stop bragging that you were chosen over somebody else. Most likely you were chosen because you have less boundaries. Wow. So this isn't a brag worthy thing.

And again, our media, our songs, all the things, making us seem like we should be competing for each other. All of this stuff, it informs what we think matters. We have this idea of the night in shining armor and the damsel and distress. Like, I went deep to try to figure out where that came from real life. Back in feudal societies, the only social mobility,

you know, a man had to increase his chances of finding a partner was to join the army. You know, because if you grew up on a farm, you know, there was an access to education or anything, you have to join the army, potentially come back a hero. And now that he's a hero, he will have more opportunities in an arranged marriage society as well to choose something.

So now it's like be chosen and be chased. And I think that that dog and cat situation right now is really making us focus on external things. Whereas if we are grounded in who we are, develop a healthier relationship, initially it's gonna close us off to a lot of people who aren't on this journey of self-awareness, but in the long run, it'll allow us to be

that very minority now who stay in healthy relationships throughout their life. Wow, man. If you're listening right now or watching, I'm talking to Humble the Poet. The book is called How to Be Loved, Bi-Humble the Poet. Simple truths for going easier on yourself,

embracing imperfection and loving your way to a better life. Make sure you go and order a copy while you're listening. This conversation is blowing my mind. It better be blowing yours too. And I think there's just so many, you know, huge insights that I'm taking away from you listening to you today. Because ultimately you're demanding a sense of vigilance from a person. I think we're all still living in that very basic sense of, I just want to be validated.

I want to be complemented. I want to be appreciated. So as long as someone's doing that, we must be in love. They must be kind, they must be nice. And that's too shallow. Like it's too, it's not a healthy way of inferring whether someone feels good about you. And it's funny because it can be really intoxicating. Yes. Like it can be really intoxicating that you lose all sight of reality and you think, well, this must be love or this must be the truth. I guess, how do people slow down the idea of falling in love? When like you said, it's sold as so important and special And we're so desperate for it almost.

Right? Like we're wired to just want it now. How do you kind of take your time as you're saying? And I read a study that said it takes 200 hours to get to know someone. And when I saw that number, I thought, well, how many people in my adult life have I spent 200 hours with? Yeah. And I was thinking, not many people have I spent 200 hours with.

Yeah, I don't even think we have 200 hours. I don't think so either. And so, you know, when you start thinking about that, you're like, wow, and we're all trying to fall in love in like two months. I think the study said that men say I love you after like three months and women take maybe four to six months to say I love you, but that's quick. So how do you kind of slow this process down and what do you do in that slowness? Because as me and you know, this isn't just about how many months you've been together. It's more than that.

Completely. I think the big realization that I have is chasing the delicious will never bring you around to nutritious. And I think, you know, and that's really what this is. So when you say the validation is addicting, it is. It's salty french fries. And you can't just have one. But you do this long enough, you're going to feel like crap. You know, and now if you've been eating french fries all day

and now someone goes, here's a plate full of broccoli, it's going to be an adjustment. And that's what I'm saying here. You have to establish a healthy relationship with yourself or you will be incapable of having a healthy relationship with anybody else. I had a friend yesterday tell me, if I break up with my boyfriend

and he doesn't call me nine times panicking, then he doesn't love me. Because he's not fighting for me. If I break up with my boyfriend and he doesn't call me nine times panicking, then he doesn't love me because he's not fighting for me. I'm like, first off, he's not fighting for you. You know, the only reason he's calling you nine times because he is super anxious. Yeah. That's he's trying to suppress anxiety. That's not there's no love in this conversation at all. And what we have to understand is we have again, the Bobby's and Whitney's, the Rossis and Rachel's, all of these things that we see, you know, even our, including our parents, you know, our first models of love were those who raised us and they were imperfect beings, you know, and

now we often find ourselves attracted to what's familiar over what's actually healthy, you know, and if you're parents, if mom, or your father was hard to impress, you're gonna find yourself being gravitated towards somebody who's hard to impress. If you were a caregiver in the house and you want someone that you can take care of, and again, it's building this awareness. It's understanding that I can keep doing this.

Again, I can keep eating fast food every single day and it'll feel like sustenance, but it will take a toll on me. And all of this stuff will exhaust us, you know, versus taking the long route which is, hey, I need to establish my relationship with myself. I need to actually have a clear definition of what I want in a partner and the deeper I go with that, the more unique it is. I shouldn't be in a room full of five people and we all have the exact same wishlist for a dream partner. It should be very specific. Based off our experiences, based off what we care about

and based off where we're headed in our lives. One of the analogies I use especially for my last relationship that didn't work is I don't have a bad thing to say about that person but we weren't going where I needed to go in that relationship. And it's like, if I gotta go to Boston and there's a beautiful private jet going to Hawaii, I can't get on that jet. You know, there's another amazing limo going to Florida. I can't get on that. If the only vehicle going to Boston is a bike, I have to get on the bike.

But the first question is, do I know where I'm going? Or where I want to go? And I think for everybody right now, if you feel alone, you can not outsource that. You cannot address that on the outside. And now we do live in a world where, okay, you make the decision to get someone else to make you feel less lonely, you build a life together, you share a mortgage together, you have a bunch of kids together, and now you're just in that world. And then you know, you're doing external things to medicate from that

as well. And the challenge with that is as this modern life gets more and more convenient, most of the things that we use to medicate ourselves turn into weapons against us as well. You know, it's a lot easier to get access to alcohol. It's a lot easier to get access to any substances or junk food, which are quick, easy, convenient and cheap. So instead, let's focus on what's nutritious and we all everybody listening knows what's nutritious for them They know that people when they're around that fill them up with energy instead of the people that they're around that drain them They know the places they know the activities. We're all aware of those if taking the long row Because the long row lasts longer You know it takes longer to get there, but it'll last longer.

And these short bits of, I just need to feel like I matter to somebody because my entire life, I didn't feel like it, that has to get addressed. And that has to get addressed through journal writing, potentially therapy, potentially coaching. But in all of that, it's getting us out of black and white thinking and encouraging us to be more self-aware.

What I'm hearing is like, there's a big difference between people that feel good for us and then people that are good for us. And we're so addicted and obsessed with what feels good that we're not able to focus on what is good, because we're almost compelled to be like, well, this person feels great, they look great, they sound great, my friends think they're great, my parents think they're awesome. The world thinks really highly of them, they must be the right person,

rather than what you're saying. And all I keep hearing in everything you're saying is like, there is just so much work to do individually and personally and simultaneously and being in a relationship. There's just so much reflection. There's reflecting on the way your parents love you. There's reflecting on your axis.

There's reflect, which is what you've been doing through this whole book journey. There's reflecting on how you got here. There's reflecting on where you're going. There's just so much reflection and introspection required. And most people just wanna throw the towel in because it's exhausting, it can be hard. But I guess what we both agree on

is that it's a lot harder to not do the work. It's the pain of the work or the pain of the regret. It's one or the other. And I think also, the know, the subtitle says going easier on yourself. Look, nobody is weak. You know, if I open up a bag of salty potato chips and I give you one, and you want,

you're not weak from wanting another one, you know? And for people who eat really healthy, they understand that that's not having unhealthy food in the kitchen, that's leaving it at the grocery store, you know? And you do that long enough, you can start to change your taste. And personal story, you showed me your snack drawer and you pointed to a bunch of things that were delicious. And after trying them, I was like, oh, this is all super healthy.

His definition of delicious is way healthier than mine. But that's because my wife, yeah. And I've seen that before, because we can actually change our taste. Addiction, we all have addictions. And to go from a bad place to a better place, we have to travel through a worse place. And the multiple addictions we have, whether we're

addicted to a person, whether we're addicted to social media, all of it falls under the exact same category of unintended rewards. I scroll through my phone, see a bunch of stuff that makes me feel insecure, see a bunch of news that heightens my anxiety. Oh, look, a cute puppy.

It was all worth it. You know, that's no different than gambling on a slot machine. You just keep pulling it and then all of a sudden the reward comes. That's no different than being in an abusive relationship. The bad days are really bad, but the good days, we don't know when they're coming,

but they feel you're fork. And getting ourselves out of that, I think it's really important. It's like, if I was like, oh, I'm in the mood to have, to go to this fast food restaurant. I'm so in the mood, I go, I eat it. How long does the satisfaction from that actually last?

And also, when things feel good, they're not, you know, our roller coaster isn't going super high and super low, so it's hard to even pay attention to that. How is, you know, we don't notice when we're not feeling anxiety because it's not a feeling. And I think we have to really be mindful of that

because we're not in a world that is designed or encouraging us to make these healthy decisions, because this world just needs us to run on fumes, contribute to its economy, work, work, work, work, keep up with everybody else. If you're sleepy, have some caffeine, if you're too hyped up, have a Xanax, take them both different times, and it's like, just contribute. Being aware of ourselves means we would find a lot of, you know, we'll realize, and the reason the cover says,

says how to be loved with a D in parentheses, is the only way to realize love is to be loved. It's to realize you are the source of love. And when you're the source of love, you're not gonna be going out and doing retail therapy. When you're the source of love, you're not gonna be, you know, traveling halfway across the city to take an Instagram photo to count your likes. When you realize you're a source of love and that you can give it to everybody and it's a gift. It's not alone. You're not giving it, hoping

it comes back to giving it because you're overflowing with it. The same way you would give it to a baby. It doesn't need to be reciprocated. The more we realize that, the less we need it from the outside world. And as I said, nothing is designed around that. We just have to, again, keep this junk food out of our kitchen, keep it out of our homes and not be hard or critical on ourselves when we falter or when we have a bad day.

The last chapter of this book, I specifically say, I am all I'm doing. I am not a love guru. I'm a kid who I am somebody who's desperately trying to understand this because I've made mistakes in my life. I'm the kid at the front of the class taking notes. And at the end of the day, all I'm telling you is the difference between French fries and broccoli. And while I'm telling you the difference, I'm eating some French fries and I'm eating some broccoli. You know, and that's important. I think, and for you and I, we both know this being being embraced in the wellness community, you know, over on the side of the ocean, everything's

very linear. It's like, hey, I used to be really messed up. And then I learned all this stuff, and now I'm awesome. And for three payments of 1995, you could be awesome too. And I think for guys like, us, we're more in the cycle. Like, hey, I messed up. I figured out what the problem was. I learned some stuff. I'm sharing what I'm learning. I'm still struggling with stuff,

but I'm going to continue this journey. And it's a cycle. I'm going to have my winter spring summer and fall. And that's going to be a constant thing and I'm going to be constantly working on it. Join me on that journey. summer and fall. And that's going to be a constant thing and I'm be constantly working on it. Join me on that journey. And let's compare notes, let's compare best practices and let's realize that we're not

a little bit critical when we think we're the only one unrelated to love. I remember finding, you know, finding an accountant and having so much anxiety because I was an artist for so long and didn't do any taxes or anything You know, he helped me out in an hour and the total someone that story realizing that they had the same anxiety and Told someone else and they had that is a lot of anxiety that people have and they feel shame and guilt That there's the only ones going through it. And I think the more we reveal this stuff the more we have these conversations openly You know, it may not get us a lot of likes on Instagram And and it may scare away some people who want who have an idea of who they think we are. And for me, one of the biggest lessons I learned in the last year was more damaging than any criticism I've ever received

was a compliment. Because the compliments put me in a cave. Our twenties are saying is this golden decade. put me in a cave. Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, fall in love, make mistakes, and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s.

Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships and much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences, incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life. Join me as we explore what our twenties are really all about from the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our twenties. The psychology of your twenties hosted by me, Gemma Speg, now streaming on the iHotRadio app, Apple podcasts, or whatever

you get your podcasts. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here we have the conversations that help Black women dig a little deeper into the most impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children, our friends, and most importantly, ourselves. We chat about things like what to do with a friendship ends, how to know when it's time

to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of perfectionism. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Take good care. A good way to learn about a place is to talk to the people that live there. There's just this sexy vibe and Montreal, this pulse, this energy. What was meant is seen as a very snotty city. People call it Bosedangeless.

New Orleans is a town that never forgets its pay. A great way to get to know a place is to get invited to a dinner party. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Newton, and not lost as my new travel podcast, where a friend and I go places, see the sights, and try to finagle our way into a dinner party. We're kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out.

I would love that, but I have like a Cholala who is aggressive towards strangers. I love the dogs. We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but I have like a Cholala who is aggressive towards strangers. I love the dogs. We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but we also learn about ourselves. I don't spend as much time thinking about how I'm going to die alone when I'm traveling, but I get to travel with someone I love. Oh, see, I love you too. And also, we get to eat as much—

I love you too. I love you too. My life's a lot of therapy goes behind that. You're so white, I love it. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Cage, it was one friend that said, yo, humble, nothing ever bothers this guy.

That is always cool, he's always calm. And then I want to live up to that. And I almost crumbled with that facade. Wow. And that became, reputations themselves can become a prison. So we need to do our best to break out of those knowing that half the time those reputations we create were there to protect us and we don't realize now they're imprisoning us.

I mean, that's a whole nother level of D. No, it's so true. It's so true. I was just in the studio recording my calm meditations. So we once a month, I'm in the studio for like four, five days a week, four, five hours at a time to do a month of content for my daily meditations on calm. And me and the crew have a really good like banter. So there's a producer in the studio, there's a sound engineer in the studio and there's two sound engineers remote. But it's the same team we work with every month, and I've worked with them for 12 months now,

nearly. And it's, we have such great band and all we do is lay into each other, we're joking around, and then I'm teaching meditation at the same time. And I kind of set that culture from the beginning, where I was joking around with everyone, messing around with everyone, for that same reason that I don't want to be perceived as guru and I often go out my way to talk about soccer or FIFA or whatever it may be. Just because I love soccer and FIFA, like that's a real genuine love for me. But I'll do that in order to get away from this kind of pedestal because what I've realized is everyone's a theist,

like everyone's looking for God in their own way, whether your God is your football team or whether your God is your favorite restaurant or your God is a person. And so everyone's looking for God in some way or the other and we keep projecting God-like imagery onto people, and then they let us down, and everyone will let you down. There isn't anyone who will live up to that God-like imagery. And then we

almost make it like it's a fault in them as opposed to realizing that it was a fault in a vision that that someone could be that way. It's hard to feel that pressure on yourself like what you're saying, like if Humboldt's always the calm, collected guy, that's like a godlike projection. None of us will always calm. I'm definitely not always thoughtful and reflective. I can be irritable and irritated. So yeah, I love that idea of breaking your own reputation for yourself. And I think just a reminder that it will not disqualify you from love. There is a four-minute compilation video on YouTube of Beyonce falling off stage.

And I challenge anyone to watch it and think if it changes their love for her in any capacity. It doesn't. If anything, it increases it. And again, going back to our village small tribe days, this was, this is also a survival tactic. It's, you had to find the best hunter and start to emulate them and almost worship them because you would hunt like them and that would be good for the whole tribe. But not only would we start hunting like them, we would start dressing like them, walking like them, talking like them, you know, and that's spilled into our culture where it's like, I love

the way LeBron James plays basketball, I love the way Steph Curry plays basketball, but now I'm also going to drink whatever brevity drinks. I'm also going to wear the shoes he wears. And then also, they're encouraged to not film their practice and just let us see them become super human on stage in front of us. We don't watch them to be good, we watch them to get better.

So this also puts in this message that perfection is something that you want. But again, perfection is not real. These people aren't perfect, I'm not perfect, you're not perfect. And that's important for us not to be perfect. Because that's the only way we can actually be vulnerable and have these meaningful connections.

And knowing, you know, and it's having these conversations especially having conversations with people who are on social media that don't even have, they're not even public figures. And they still refer to the people. Like the people need, the people wanna see where I'm going on vacation. And you're like, who is the people need, the people want to see where I'm going on vacation. You're like, who is the people?

And the big thing I've been thinking about recently is this concept of, again, getting out of the black and white thinking, you know, there are rewards and punishments. Society and social media and your friends groups will reward certain behavior. And it can be subtle. And you can see that your parents growing up, they will reward certain behavior. And it can be subtle, and you can see that your parents growing up, they reward a certain behavior. We have to realize that not receiving a reward is not the same as the punishment.

Mm-hmm. You know, so when people say society expects me to be beautiful, you may be right. I'm not gonna argue with that. Society, I can't tell someone what signals and cues they get. But what I can tell you is if you decide not to play the game, you won't be punished if anything you'll be left alone. If I don't play social media the way it needs to get played,

I may not grow, but they're not gonna blow up my phone and make it impossible for me to exist. I just may not get any more rewards. And I think that's important to understand that not getting a reward is not a punishment. Let's get out of that black and white thinking. And then again, we can be a little bit easier on ourselves, a little bit more liberated,

because maintaining these expectations, expectations are gonna only close more pathways to love. Expectations from other people, expectations of ourselves. What we have to do is just have intentions, which is I wanna get better every day. And that progress is something that we can celebrate, each self-respect, and we can also do that with other people. We can set intentions of what we want things to be,

and those intentions will also include our boundaries. Oh, man, so powerful. I want to talk about, we've talked a lot about, like, finding love within yourself, being alone, finding that inner growth, that confidence. We've talked a lot about meeting the right person. How do you know whether to figure it out if someone's right for you knowing what you want in someone? I mean, treat by, you know, when we have been in a relationship for a long time and you are in a long relationship that inspired you to write this book. And you find, as you said, you're going those separate ways that you

want to get a Boston, private jet going to Hawaii. Sometimes we spend longer in a relationship trying to figure out whether it's going to last than we do in actually building it, making it last. So we're questioning a relationship for longer than we're creating a relationship. So if someone's in that phase of their life, what are some of the things that you thought about? What are some of the things you discovered in the writing of this book that you'd encourage them to reflect on, or to introspect on?

Without playing the blame game, let's always focus on where we can take responsibility because that's where we'll have power. In any situation, if somebody rears ends my car, that's not my fault, but it's still my responsibility. I got to go to the mechanic, I got to go handle insurance. And I think in our conflicts with people, we have to look at our responsibilities as well, and I think that's super important.

In these situations, when we look at our responsibility, what we consider to focus on is love as the verb, love through service. One of the simple things that I realized was like, okay, when I feel enthusiastic about somebody, I wanna share my world with them. That doesn't build a connection as much as me enthusiastically diving into their world.

Sartre man, so much. And this doesn't just apply to romantic relationships. This can be you and your grandkids. This can be you and your siblings. This can be you and your grand kid. This can be you and your siblings. This can be you and a coworker. You know, these relationships, we make them about ourselves because we want to find that value, but we'll gain more value and build stronger connections when we dive into the other person's world and start to see that.

Now for some people, communication, I think communication is key. You know, everything needs to be a conversation. We need to become more aware as a couple, as well about what we have expectations of because so often it's a template. Having a conversation with somebody yesterday, even like the definition of things. What's the definition of cheating?

Everyone has different definitions. And if somebody's like, oh, hey, well, it's physical. But then for somebody else, it might be emotional, you know? And that is something that, you know, these are uncomfortable conversations need to happen. For folks like us, we grew up around arranged marriages. And I think the one thing that I always thought was cool about arranged marriages is,

they ask a lot of the inconvenient uncomfortable questions. They ask those up from the jump, you know, family history, medical history, finances, all of this type of stuff. But I think all these uncomfortable conversations, which we think, you know, will just kind of fall into place. Jordan Peters talks about this. He goes, have a definition of what a made bed looks like. Have a definition of what, you know, the rules are at the breakfast table, you know, including yourself, recognizing the micro issues that can become bigger issues,

and you address them, you nip them at the butt. And I think those are really interesting things to do. I love the Shirley Glass analogy too, which is walls and windows, which is when you're in a romantic relationship with somebody, there is a window between you. So first, acknowledge there is a window. So now let's not look at that other person

as our possession. Let's look at. So now let's not look at the other person as our possession. Let's look at them as someone who has opened a window to us and we have access to them. And then we need to create a wall around us. Because the moment somebody outside gets a better view of what's happening on the inside, that can be a really strong definition of infidelity. You know, whether it's physical or not.

But I think that's a really important thing to understand. This is not your person. This is somebody who's giving you access to them. And now you can continually strengthen that relationship. And I think the other one is love is a game. But the goal of the game is not to win. The goal of the game is to keep it fun so everybody keeps wanting to play. So treat it like a game, but treat it where the goal is for every, you want to keep everybody in the room wanting to play. And I think that's important because when we get into battles or disagreements, the disagreements turn into something else very quickly. And there's something called the, the bagel method

or donut method, depending on what you like better. You have the small circle, you have the big circle. Whenever there's a disagreement, the small circle is where you should identify, and this is from the Godman Institute, I'm not thinking credit for this one, but the small circle is where you identify your actual non-negotiables. Meaning you're gonna go to dinner,

what are the actual non-negotiables? You're vegan, that's an actual non-negotiable. Now, all that everything else becomes a lot clearer or there might be three or four more things that maybe had Mexican yesterday. So today, we're not going over Mexican. Don't want to have carbs so I don't want to do pasta or what have you. Doing that for yourself first prepares you to communicate to somebody else. And I think that's really important. So often we expect people to just know us, just understand us, read our minds. Through all we've been talking about a self-awareness and as an analyst, journey, we don't even know us. I don't know me. How can I

expect you to know me? And then when you do know me through your observations of me externally, recognize that you're on my team and you're telling me these things for the benefit of us. When there's a problem, it should not be me versus the other person. It should be us versus the problem. And the big idea in explaining all of this is realizing that love is fuel, not glue. Love doesn't keep us together. Love is what we use to work at it. And this applies to romantic relationships, our relationships, our co-workers, our friends, our family. We have to work at it. We sometimes feel like it's autopilot because especially, I know, brown boys and their mom, we get this unconditional love just for existing.

That can't be what we're looking for in our romantic relationships. There needs to be conditions. And then we need to say, we need to be on our toes putting in energy and effort. And I think that's really important where, back to what I've learned from you through the Gita, you are only entitled to the labor. And that labor in itself should be the reward, not the outcome of that labor. And in these relationships, saying, I love you, and I want to serve you, and serving you is the point of review.

And this is where the love is revealed. You know, love is going back to the original. You don't win love. You don't find love. The love is already there. You're doing the work. So the analogy I like to use is love is the breeze. And the work that we're doing is to open our sales.

You know, I struggled in my last situation because I could not receive love. It wasn't that there wasn't love there. It was my inability to open my sales because of the walls, the lack of vulnerability, my need to win in an argument, my need to be in control, my silly ideas, there might be something better out there. All of these ideas I realized that it was me. I had my door closed, I had

my sales closed to the breeze that was always there. When we do that work, that by default will create a better relationship with ourselves, which will inform every single relationship we have around us. MOSTICALASSE. MOST man. Masterclass, I want everyone to know when you open up this book because you're gonna order it straight after this conversation if you haven't already, there are chapters in here that will blow your mind.

I wanna share some of them with you. We've talked about a lot of them today, but there's a lot we have not talked about. So we have, we discussed this one, we did not talk about love and ego won't hold hands. Definitely go and read that chapter. Chapter 18, envy pulls us away from love.

Definitely want you to go and check out that chapter. This one is one that really struck out to me. They can only love us for yesterday. Love is saying no. There are some phenomenal chapters in this book. I highly recommend it. The book is called How to Be Love The Simple Truths for Going Easier on Yourself, Embracing Improfection,

and Loving Your Way to a Better Life. Humble, this has been, I mean, we should record our conversations more often because I'm like, this has even been one of those, like, it's been a really fun, like, what I love doing with you, which we've done today, which we do in real life all the time, is we're like really unpack stuff. We're kind of like critically analyzed stuff. And we're kind of trying, like, break down as much as we can to try and get to the core of what we're talking about. Is there something that I haven't asked you about today or that you feel compelled to share with our community that's really on your heart that you want to pass forward?

I mean, as you were reading all the chapters, I want people to know every chapter is only two pages. That's why there's so many chapters, there's over 60 chapters. And the way we designed the book and I would love for you to do it, you can open to any page and you will find a quote that stands out immediately, that will give you that. So what does it say? The more we keep our word and act on our commitments, the more momentum we create, and the better habits we can build.

And that is talking about self love. So all it is is you can open this book to any page, you'll find something you love. If you read that first chapter, you'll definitely be in tears as I was in tears writing it. And if you finished this book, you're going to walk away not considering love complicated. Love is simple. Not easy. I'm not saying love is easy. I'm saying love is simple. You know, this was a labor of love and a labor to love for me to write. And I really, really, really appreciate you opening me up to your community and all the help that you've done for me, even behind the scenes with this. It taught me the journey of going through this taught me a lot in terms of service, in terms

of authentic love. And I'm super grateful for that. And thank you so much for having me, man. Of course, brother. I highly recommend this book. As Humble said, it's one of these red books that you can literally flip to any page and you're going to find wisdom right there. And so if you're one of those people who needs it, it made really simple, really accessible to kind of shake you up, wake you up, you know, take your mind away from distractions. This book is beautifully created for that.

I highly recommend this book. I'm going to be picking it as one of my books of the months for my genius community as well. Please, please, please go support Humble. He's an awesome dude as well in real life. Please go follow him on Instagram, on Twitter, on all forms of social media and make sure that you tag me in Humble with your insights and your takeaways from this episode. I think we've really got into some fascinating territory that I didn't even think we would, and I want to know what your thoughts are on that, what your reflections are on that. So make

sure you tag us both on Instagram with your biggest, biggest insights, and I can't wait for you to listen to another episode of On Purpose. Big shout out to humble for turning up again. Humble was, I mean, I want to end with this because you were one of the first guests to ever come on the show. You were in the first couple of months when we launched. And that's really special for me because when we started the podcast and when you would have recorded with me, the podcast didn't even exist. I don't think. And for everyone who believed in me to come on the show back then means the world to me. So the credit goes back to you. I mean, I remember when you asked me, I was like me. You want me on the show back then means the world to me. So the credit goes back to you because I mean, I mean,

I remember when you asked me, I was like me, you want me on the podcast and it was, you know, it filled my heart. And yeah, it was definitely, you know, there, there was a little kind of a juxtaposition here. Like I'm coming to talk to my friend, but this is also the biggest podcast in the world. And it's like the excitement of talking to Jay, but the, the anxiety around being on a podcast is, it's just, it really tripped me out a lot. And I appreciate, as I said, I appreciate you having me,

but I'm so happy and proud. I think what I want your audience to know is one of the reasons our conversation goes too long is because you are so clear in purpose driven with what you do. So you don't, when we, L., LA is a city full of dreamers. And you are, you are, you're, you're mission based. So you don't tell me your ambitions. You tell me your mission. And then I watched the mission come to life. And, you know, with

most people, you know, your goals should be clear. Your strategies can be negotiable. And I think, you know, when you mention this podcast or you mentioned a million of the other things that you're doing to watch you speak about it, to watch it come to life and to watch it grow and to watch it become like, and everybody's, people quote you all the time to me, not knowing we know each other.

I think recently in an episode you mentioned my name, my phone blows up. And it becomes, and but it just makes me so proud because this is a, this is purpose driven, but it takes work. And you have an amazing team helping you do it. And you're consistent with it. And good things happen to people who stick with it. So just like, congratulations with this. For me, it's being full circle, being, being one of the first episodes, and me being here now, seeing all the changes that you do has been, it just, it fills my heart. That also lets me know where love exists. Thank you. I'm so inspired. Well, and as your friend, and also as someone who, you know, doesn't like to falsely glorify

and just pump people up for the sake of it, because I don't see the value in that, in the same way as I don't see the value in criticizing. In the same ways, I don't see the value in criticizing people for no reason. You crushed it in there, man. Everything that you shared, there was so many great messages. And I honestly haven't thought this fast and reflected on so many things this much in a long time. And so you have this unique ability

to get me in the zone really quickly too. And I value that friendship so much, man. It's such a rare intellectual pleasure and joy as well No, it's always fun man. I wish you know, I'm glad this is recorded so don't need the no pad. Yeah Well, everyone else is gonna need a no pad. Yeah, but thank you, humble again everyone the book is called how to be loved Go and grab your copy right now, and thank you so much for listening to this episode. The one you feed explores how to build a fulfilling life admits the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on

emotional resilience, transformational habits, and personal growth. I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists to spiritual teachers, offering powerful lessons to apply daily. Create the life you want now. Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis, new name. I'm a journalist, a wanderer, a bit of a bon vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about and not lost is my new

podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it. I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner. We're kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

I am Yomla Van Zant and I'll be your host for The R Spot. Each week listeners will call me live to discuss their relationship issues. Nothing will tear a relationship down faster than two people with no vision. Does your all are just floppin' around like fish out of water? Mommy, Daddy, your ex, I'll be talking about those things and so much more. Check out the R-Spot on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. and so much more. Check out the R-Spot on the iHeart Video app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

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