On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Jada Pinkett Smith : ON How To Heal Your Past & Love Yourself Again

Episode Date: February 17, 2020

Jay Shetty and Jada Pinkett-Smith sit down and discuss how her childhood shaped her in good and bad ways. After leaving home for Los Angeles at age 18, Pinkett-Smith had to learn how to allow herself to lay down her ego and live with an open heart. Everybody has a story, and Jada Pinkett-Smith has developed the unique ability to take any life experience and find the good in it. Watch the episode of On Purpose to learn how Jada Pinkett-Smith was able to overcome her past and thrive. 👉 Get Jay’s Best Podcast Collection 👇 https://jayshetty.me/bestpodcasts See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Debbie Brown, host of the Deeply Well Podcast, where we hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical

healers and wellness around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your wellbeing journey. Deeply Well is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply Well with Debbie Brown is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Namaste. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Lewis Hamilton, and many, many more.

On this podcast, you get to hear the raw, real-life stories behind their journeys, and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. Where I grew up, you weren't allowed to be open and loving.

Right? You know, it's like that a get you killed basically, which you had to be was slide slick. You know what I'm saying? You had to have one up on everybody else, right? And so it's a tough way. It is. And so it's such a tough way. It is.

It is. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to on purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you. I'm so amazed at how you're also committed and dedicated to listen, to learn and grow every single week. And I truly am grateful to each and every one of you that's listening or watching right now.

And today my heart is filled, literally filled with gratitude, with joy, with a deep sense of appreciation because I'm getting to have a conversation with someone who I have admired and respected from afar for so much of my life. And within the last year, I'm honored, genuinely honored and privileged to call a dear dear friend. And even though we've only known each other for maybe about a year now, I feel like I've known her for lifetimes. And I mean that literally I feel like I've known her forever. And today. And I mean that literally. I feel like I've known her forever. And today's guest, as you know already, is none other than Jada Pinkett Smith.

She's an incredible actress, producer, creator, musician, mother, philanthropist, and so much more. She's the host of the number one show on Facebook. As we all know it, it's been nominated for tons of awards, red table talk, where they dive in into this table of purification, this table of transparency as she calls it, and shed light on these tough topics that we never get to speak about. And she's one of these people that, from the moment you meet her, her whole energy will just captivate you and embrace you.

Like you'll feel this big hug. And I felt that way from the moment I met Jada and I'm so grateful that today she's on on purpose. Jada, thank you for being here. Oh, Jada, don't bring me the tears. You know, I know, I know. You know, I meant to, I send you these long, like deep messages every time we exchange because it's just who I am. I can't not tell you how much I've loved you from afar for so long And now to be a friend and to call you family and someone that since I met I feel like I've known you like for lifetimes It does feel that way and you've been so instrumental in my growth and you know We just really vibe in some places that you can't really share with everybody, you know, just where you're willing to walk with me on my spiritual path.

And I just appreciate you for that. You and your beautiful wife. Yes. Yeah. I wish you did. She's in London, so she doesn't get back. Oh, okay. So tomorrow.

Got it. And so, yeah, she would have loved to see you. When I told her you were coming on today, she was very happy. Yeah. You've really, I still remember that day when you surprised her of being on the show. Oh yeah. Because I just want to start there because so I met Jada when I was asked by Facebook to host the launch of Red Table Talk.

And we met behind the scenes for a few moments and that became this conversation that connected us. And then we went on and I mean, Red Table Talk is just phenomenal. We all love it. We're so happy you're doing it. I want to dive into that. But then we come to the show and literally that whole morning, my wife's like, what should I wear?

And I'm like, you know, even going to be on camera. Like, I was just like, Jada's into it. Like, I was like, I'm going on camera. You're not going to, I did that whole man thing, right? And I was just like, you're not even going to be on camera. I was like, why are you worrying so much? Right. And we get there.

And then you're like, you know, you and your team like, well, you should both do. Yeah, I was like, why are you worrying so much? Right. And we get there and then you're like, you know, you and your team are like, well, you should both do. Yeah, I was like, you have to. You gotta come on. I'm holding my head in there. Anyway, but you've always been so loving to both of us. And we've learnt so much from you and the family.

And anyway, thank you for being here. But I want to start off with talking about your childhood. Okay. Because we've talked about it a bit before as well. Yeah. I want to hear about what was so formative about your childhood into Okay. Because we've talked about it a bit before as well. And I want to hear about what was so formative about your childhood into who you are today. What are the experiences that form the parts

that you love, form the parts that you're working through from the parts that you're editing? Yeah. Let's start there. It's so funny because the components of my childhood and the experiences that I had in my childhood that have formed what I love are also the same experiences that have formed

the characteristics within me that aren't so pretty, right? So I had a lot of adversity during my childhood, you know, and my mother was a heroin addict and my father was an addict alcoholic criminal, so he would describe himself. And so I did a lot of growing up, having to teach myself, let's say, the ways of the world were kind of thrown at me in the streets of Baltimore. You know what I mean. And I think that because I had such independence as such a young age, I really, I could really see who I was and who I wasn't. There were a lot of strengths I was able to acquire at a very young age, a lot of what

we would call mother wit. You know what I'm saying? It's like that knowledge that you don't learn and the text books at school, but through life. textbooks at school, but through life, right? And so I would say that I got prepared for a lot of things at an early age, that at a point of time in my life, I didn't necessarily see it as a gift. So I went through a lot of depression

in my early 20s. through a lot of depression in my early 20s. And just feeling like life isn't supposed to be this hard. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And like, yeah, you know, and I really, as life has gone on, I just realized, mm, that's kind of like this. And that you're not unique.

Yeah. You know, that people are suffering everywhere. Everybody has a story. You know, and then I was able to take my life experiences and find the good in it, which was, that's the very thing that made it possible for me to come to LA by myself at the age of 18. And work out a career for myself and craft a life for myself. You know what I mean, but

I have been working through and I'm still working through. You know, an understanding that life is not an enemy. You know, and that adversity is not meant to steal things from you. It is actually meant to help you find the things within you that help you find the giant within actually. But that and just learning how to lay down my warrior. You know, the fat, yeah, man, yeah, that's been a consistent struggle. Yeah.

Because as soon as I'm in trouble, as soon as I feel hurt, the first place I go to is fight. Right. Right. And so yeah, I've had to really learn how to lay down that warrior and even in my, within the biggest hurts, sit with that pain with an open heart.

And that is, whoo, Jay. That's not hot as death. We already like, hold it up. You know? Yeah. Yeah, so that's, you know, I love the warrior within me. Yes. And specifically the spiritual warrior that has come out

of my life experiences, but that street warrior. That street warrior's a home doozy. Yeah. You know, and she can be cruel and she can be deeply unloving. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so that's the shadow area within myself that I am at least now far more conscious of than I've ever been.

And even if she comes out, I can grab her quick before she's eating right. You know what I mean? And so, you know, it's all about just getting to those deeper levels of consciousness. You know, you might not necessarily be able to dissolve those aspects of your, you know, shadow as quickly as you want. But as long as you're, you know, as I get more and more conscious of those shadow aspects, I can just get the reins of it a bit faster and replace it with something that's closer to love. Yeah. You know, but I also realize that I'm, I think one of the biggest realizations that I've made is that I'm actually learning

how to love. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here we have the conversations that help black women dig a little deeper into the most impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children, our friends, and most importantly ourselves. We chat about things like what to do with a friendship ends, how to know when it's time to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of

perfectionism. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Take good care. I'm Dr. Romani, and I am back with season two of my podcast, Navigating Narcissism. Narcissists are everywhere,

and their toxic behavior in words can cause serious harm to your mental health. In our first season, we heard from Eileen Charlotte, who was loved by the Tinder swindler. The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money you took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissist in your life.

Each week, you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships, gaslighting, love bombing, and the process of their healing from these relationships. Listen to navigating narcissism on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets.

The depths of them, the variety of them, continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am. I needed her to help me.

Something was annoying at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a piece missing. Why not restart? Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I think that a lot of us, yeah.

Both yourself and others. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. This is Jade everyone. I guess you know, you have a show where you interview people, and I'm so glad that we get the tables of 10 today. It's no table, but the tables have turned today.

I'm so glad that we get to hear you. Just in five minutes, you've basically given us a whole thesis on how to grow in our lives. I'm so glad we get to just hear you talk. I'm just listening to them. I just want to listen because the world needs this. It needs to hear you say, you're so kind, you're so patient with everyone else. It's like, yeah. So, I want to dive into, you know, I was just saying that you're so patient when when I when you interviewed me or whenever I watch any of your interviews, you're just,

you're such a listener. And the best quality I take away from you, Willow and Adrian from that day was just you three are like the best listeners You you engage people in a way that makes them find stuff They didn't even know that was in them right and and my only hope and I'm asking you to bless me to do this I'm trying to do the same back for you today You always do it though, Jay No, just because we have front of cameras today No, I'm just serious, but I mean it I really really mean it. But let's dive into what you said, because let's, I mean, there's tons of stuff I want to from what you just said. Life

is not the enemy. Yeah. Such a powerful statement. Yeah. I feel like from what you just said, you went through with your mother and your father. Yeah. There are people who are listening who have similar experiences. There are people who have no idea what that feels like. But all of us in our own way, like you said, feel life is the enemy at some point. How did you face that feeling that life is the enemy? How do you face that in the first instance? You've talked about the transformation, but when you first get a grip through that, how did you grapple with that? grapple with that. I really started coming outside of myself and looking at the world and having conversations with people about their life and realizing I wasn't the only one

that was hurting. You know what I mean? And that mostly everybody you meet is hurting at some capacity, but hurt is hurt. So everybody's trying to measure, you know, hurt as much as I, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, but that's usually, you know, those trauma patterns are usually the things that we run into fiercely, that create more suffering and more conflict between people, right? And so I really started looking at that and realizing, oh, wait a minute, hold it, hold it, hold it. Okay, now you have to get out of your ego.

You have to stop thinking that you are so special that you're the only one that hurts this way. Because that's ego on the other side. I think that you know what I mean. Yes, that's a really, yeah. And I had to really confront how egotistical I was in my martyrdom. Yes, thank you.

Right, we never really talk about It is the color was in my martyrdom. Yes, thank you. Right, we never really talk about that side of ego. We always look at the boisterous, full of themselves, but that other spectrum of the ego that to me can be a bit more insidious, because it's not recognized in the same way as how we identify ego. And when I came upon that one, and I mean fiercely egotistical, and oh, how I suffer, and no one suffers like me,. It was like all of that.

And bring a more suffering into my life in order to prove and to build on that martyrdom. And I was floored. I was floored in that discovery of myself and that face of my ego that had really taken the lead in my life. Yeah, I love the way you just put that. I think I completely agree because the ego wants to be the most anything. So we look at the ego, like you're saying, we look at the ego is like, oh, I'm the best at this. Right. I am the most accomplished. Right.

But then on the flip side, what you're talking about, which is the insidious as you said, ego, it's the, I'm the most pained. Yes. I'm the most hurt. I've had the most wrong done to me. Yes. And so exactly, it's that ego just pushing it aside. And unfortunately, like you said, because we don't think of that as ego

Right, we actually and what you said which which really just blew my mind now You're like actually we go and collect more pain to prove that we are the most pain That's crazy You put it that's exactly what it is crazy I didn't mean to say about you. I'm not saying about myself. No crazy. You can call me crazy any day, Jay, because it's, you know, it is a level of insanity. And I had to really look at that. Yeah, me too. You know, and I had to make a lot of changes in my life and Have the courage to make those changes. Yeah

Because you know more than anybody is not easy to grapple with those Ideas and energies within absolutely. Yeah, and this that's beautiful the second thing that really stood out when you were when you were sharing the earlier notes with us when you said you had to lay down the warrior and when you say that what I hear is I hear so many people thinking like they're fighting for justice. Yeah. Or they're fighting for justice for themselves. We're fighting for what we think is right. We're fighting for what we believe is right. And when you say I had to lay down that warrior, that always wants to fight and get going.

And that sounds like a very tough thing to do again, because everything about you when you're fighting feels like you're doing what's right. Like I hear that so often with people like, but I know I'm right and I know they're wrong. And it's like, we know we're like, so it's so factual in our head. Yeah.

But you're actually talking about actually laying down the warriors giving you more peace. Yeah. So tell us about that process. Yeah. And it's not even, let me tell you what's deep about that inner warrior when it comes to, specifically dealing with relationships that are close to you.

You know, whether they're friendships, whether they're marriages, whether they're specifically dealing with relationships that are close to you. You know, whether they're friendships, whether they're marriages, whether they're parent-child relationships, right? For someone like me, who's dealt with a lot of loss and heartbreak in my life, one of the things that I did in order to survive it was to create this wall and kind of this invincibility. That warrior, right?

There comes and goes, you can't take me out. So bring it, right? So now when you are confronted with heartbreak with someone who you say you love and the warrior wants to come and go, what's up? Which you got? Yeah. So that's not loving and it's surely not going to create more love. So that's not loving, and it's surely not gonna create more love. But it's been the defense mechanism that's protected me from the wolves, the bears on the street. Yeah.

Where I grew up, you weren't allowed to be open and loving. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like that gets you killed basically. Which you had to be was slide, slick. You know what I'm saying? You had to have one up on everybody else. Right? And so. It's a tough way to do it. It is. And you definitely, you know, you also have to in order to protect yourself in the war zones that I grew up in. It's like, you know, there's a little killer that's inside of you, you know what I'm saying?

And so all of these aspects of my personality that have been nurtured. And even coming out to LA at a young age and dealing with all these, all these suit, what I call pseudo wolves. They're not even doing it. I'm like, please, right? But yet, and still having to have that killer instinct on point, you know, and that's kind of where Will and I connected. Yeah, that inner killer.

Yeah, you know what I'm saying? It's like, we know how to fight. You know what I mean? And so, um, so then when it's time for he and I to actually have some openness Because of what we've nurtured. Yeah And I have a lot of people around me that I have relationships with that come from those kind of backgrounds environments And it makes it very difficult to Get to loving, kind, compassionate, gentle spaces within and without. Right? And so even

learning to have that, because that killer instinct will turn on you. And that's what you don't realize. It's like you think you're protecting yourself from other people and from the world, but at the end of the day, you're shutting yourself from yourself. Well. Right? And to the point, you don't know,

you're not even connected to your soul, your heart, your like, and when I had to wake up and out of that fog of how I had been operating and my heart and spirit weren't actually in the lead, that is such a heart confront. Yeah. When you have to look at the things within yourself that don't confirm who you thought you were. Yeah. And then you have to look at how it's affected people you actually care about.

But that's the work. Yeah. That's the work. But it's beautiful that you could see it and separate it. Yeah. Because I think half the time the challenge is people just see it as them. It's not. Right?

Like that's what you're like. I am just this. But I think half the time the challenge is people just see it as them. It's not. Right? Like that's what you're like. I am just this. And like if you had just accepted you're like, oh, I'm just bold to more. I'm just street. I'm just, this is just who I am. Yeah, no. And I can't change it because it's who my conditioning is.

But that's what I'm saying. Like it's, it takes such a moment to be able to separate and go, wait a minute, I can either lead from the heart, I can lead from this, or I can be led by whatever it is, like the opposite. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University,

and I've spent my career exploring the three pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions, so we can better understand our lives and our realities. Like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident?

Or can we create new senses for humans? Does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagelman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Not too long ago, in the heart of the Amazon Rainforest, this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life. I saw it and I saw, oh wow, this is a very unusual situation.

It was cacao. The tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen, or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun fight. I mean, you saw the stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate. You're all lost, you're this madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind, so they could search for more of this stuff.

I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle, and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building armed with machetes. And we've heard all sorts of things that you know somebody got shot over this. Sometimes I think, oh, all this for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions while chocolate on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting

to save a retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet, roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money can help. That's right, we're two best buds

who've been at it for more than five years now, and we want to see you achieve your money goals, and it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering list of questions, interviewing experts and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is Choc Full of the Personal Finance Knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week and we talk about debt payoff.

If, let's say you've had a particularly spend thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, how do monies got your back? Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to how to money on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think it was really my... I guess when I turned 40, I really got serious about my spiritual practices

and my spiritual connection. I always knew that there was a power higher than me, but I wasn't connected. So it's different knowing that there's a higher power and then actually taking the time to cultivate that relationship. You and I have talked a lot about this. And once I started really cultivating, and that takes such a discipline and such a deep trust, right?

Cultivating that relationship with that higher source. And started to realize the beauty and the depth of love that was in that source. I said, well, this is what I am. Because this is where I'm, this is what I made. Yes, yes. All this other stuff has been acquired. Wow.

Yeah, this is actually where I'm from. Right, this is actually, I'm from. Right. This is actually, this is it. I think I'm from this. But I think that I'm a Baltimore. No, no, no, no, no. I'm a the source. Yeah.

Right? And so I've been stepping towards, you know, shedding all the ideas of what I believe that I am. So it's just been a lot of ego death. You know, it's a constant ego death. I feel like every day, some aspect of myself is dying. And that I completely understand, you know, why some people just choose not to do it. Yeah, because it's almost like a part of you mourns every time even a bad part dies, right? Because they're good friends. Yeah, they feel close. Yes. They feel close because it's been a part of you for 10, 25 years, whatever it is. And so every time it dies, you feel like you Yes. They feel close because it's been a part of you for 10, 20, 30 years, whatever it is. And so every time it dies,

you feel like you've lost a part of who you are. Yes. But we're saying that it's not really. Really you. You know, so it's almost like you have to send off those aspects of yourself with, and one of the things that I've learned, you gotta love those shadows.

You gotta love them. They might, you know, it's like, those shadow pieces got me, they helped me survive. Maybe not at the highest level, but I'm here. And you know, you just send them off with thank yous. You know, for this next part, I just don't need that, but thank you for all of it. The good, the bad, the challenging, the joy is just for all of it. And so I feel like in the bigger scope of the spiritual spectrum, when we can embrace our own shadow, When we can embrace our own shadow, it decreases, it dissipates the negative energy that's put into shadow. Right?

Yes, yes. So ultimately, in the collective shadow, we can help bring light, you know, as we're dealing with our own personal shadows Thank you so much for that that The thank yous to your shadows like I love to your shadows That is so powerful because I feel like if you try and drop something out of haste Yeah, or out of like resentment. Yes. Just pick it back up. It's quickly. You do because you don't really detach And so when that's so powerful, thank you for that. Like just that, just as simply as you put it, just just love your shadows

and love them to leave, right? Like love them as they leave. Not this like, not this like resembling, oh, I don't need you anymore. Yeah. Out of here, like that, that kind of warrior again. Absolutely. Thinking that you're protecting yourself, but actually you're just making it easy for them to creep back in. That aversion is just as, yeah, is just as, I've listened, I've learned that any extreme, you know, I was the queen of extremes. The queen of extremes.

You know, queen of extremes. And now I'm trying to be the queen of neutrality. Ooh, I like it. Yeah, and so, yeah, no big highs, no big lows, you know, because it's all on each side is pitfalls. Yes. You know, and so, you know, for me to just, I'm always trying to find that mental place

for right perception. So any extreme gets us into false ideas of some kind. Yes. It's so true. It is. It is so true. You're so right. Because in the Gita, it said that attachment and aversion are two sides of the same coin. Yeah. So the Gita is my book. Yeah a version are two sides of the same coin. So, the Gita is my book.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's my book too. Yeah, it's my book too. Yeah, and that statement is so powerful because we think, oh, those who are attached are going down the wrong path. But it's also those who are falsely averse, or what sometimes the book is called as monkey renunciation. Yeah. Right. Like a monkey just like playfully will say, I don't need that banana. I don't need that. But really in its hearts, like, craving it. Yep. And it pulls it back into its life.

So yeah, that's a really tricky dance. It's a tricky dance. That's, I like that. Yeah. But I like that word. Because when you see it as a dance, it is, it's a dance. All of it is, you know, I mean, just realizing that, you know, the other thing, you know, we're having this conversation days after, you know, the tragic death of Kobe, and the feeling and the idea of impermanence is absolutely terrifying. And the ego, and I even

went through this after hearing about Kobe and having certain situations in my life and realizing how the ego just came in and shut me down People were talking about how they were opening up and What happened and what I realized is now Having in my life right now having to deal with the idea of impermanence how so not only do you have to walk in this life with openness But knowing that there's no ground underneath you. And the way in which the ego wants it to be. So as soon as that happened, my ego came in and said, we got to get control.

We got to get control. Yeah. We got to get control. Just like to get shocked, get shocked into get control. And I was like, oh, but it was such, it was like, it just showed me that next level of purification they need to happen within and the acceptance of impermanence and knowing that I don't have the ground under my feet in the way in which my ego wants. But what I have learned is that the ground under my feet is that of a higher source. That's the only ground to walk on. It's the only ground. It's the only safe ground. It's the only safe ground. It's the only thing that one can truly rely on and that our human interactions are for our lessons.

Not for reliability and that way. If you come across relationships and people that you can rely on 50% of the time, 60% of the time, so that's a win. Yeah, shoot. Shoot. Shoot. It's so great. Yes, and I think that oftentimes we come into these false ideas of what our human relating

is supposed to be about. Oh, yeah, tell us about that. Okay Oh yeah, tell us about that. Okay. Yeah, tell us about that. This is probably one a lot of people not going to want to hear. I think it's true. I think the more we talk about, and this way, if you're an expert this, and you do it out of compassion,

it's like, we're talking about these things as people who are going through it. Yes. Like, as you know, we've always talked about it in that way. Like, when you're saying all of this, I'm like, I did that. I did that. I do that. I still do that. It's not coming from a place. Tell us from that place. From that place and just recognizing that what I've learned, and I've learned this from my own faults. What I've learned, and I've learned this from my own faults, and where I think I've shown up for people, or where I've failed people, in realizing in my own relating with people that relationships

are simply there to show us ourselves well, yeah, and I think a lot of times we go into relationships We you know we gravitate to friends or we gravitate to lovers or husbands wives and what have you? And we're like, this person is supposed to know how to love me. Yes. Oh wow. Right?

And so when the inevitable disappointment comes up. Inevitable. Inevitable. Inevitable. You know of how this person has failed you, how this person has hurt you, how this person has hurt you, how this person has betrayed you, how this person hasn't been the most integrist, we could go on and on and on. Right? Now, we are taking it personally,

and we're looking at something is wrong with me, or something is wrong with them, but something is wrong. Yes. Right? Yeah. Once again, the ability to lay the ego down. Yeah. And look at the mirror. Right. And say, what is this showing me about myself? So hot. It's so hard to do because at the end of the day, no matter what's happening. Now, and now I'm not talking about people have been victimized in a certain manner, right?

I'm talking about, right, I'm talking about consensual relationships that go awry. Yes. No matter what, I've had to realize that no matter what circumstance I'm in, and no matter what's happened, I have to take responsibility. This is going to help a lot of people push into that. Yeah, that's a hard one. Yeah, it is hard.

And I guess it's even harder when you have kids. I think one of the most difficult aspects in my history of relating. In those moments that I wanted to hang on to victim or I wanted to hang on to blame, I would have that moment where I had to look at the situation and go, well, you let this into your life. So why? Yeah.

Let's look at that. Because at the end of the day, Jada, that's all you have control over. Yes. Right? So when I had to start looking at how I was relating to people, how I was being affected and how I was affecting them, but then making the choice to only look at my part. Yeah.

Jay, Jay. Oh, that responsibility. That level of responsibility, but what it reveals to you about why you're making the choices that you're making and inviting certain dynamics and people into your life because at the end of the day, it's your invite. Wow, yes, you invited them into your life.

You invited it. You chose it. So now you have to look at the why because that same saying of nobody can do to you what you don't allow. Yes, absolutely. Well, when I tell you that's a painful one to have to, because first of all, it goes against everything we've been taught about what love is supposed to look like, what romantic love is. Oh, man. Right. Yeah. It's like, I don't need to look like, what romantic love is. Oh, man, right. Yeah.

It's like, I don't need to look at me. No. He's the one that went out and did, did, did, did, did, did. Yeah, but she chose them. So let's talk about it. Yeah. So well put, because you're in by, it's like if someone comes to a party at your house,

right, and you didn't like how they behaved. You could be upset with them or you could be like, but I sent them the invite, right? Like, and that's all of the way I didn't like. Because it's the same thing, but you've got to look at the fact I invited them. I'm the one who told them to come. Right. And maybe in the back of your head, you even knew that they would probably do something like that, but you still invited them.

Yep. Whether it was an obligation, expectation, whether it was lost, whether it, whatever it was, that. Yes. And that part, when you have to really look an expectation whether it was lost, whatever it was that. Yes, and that part, when you have to really look at it's like, I invited this person in because it blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when you look at why they were invited in the first place, then you realize why the circumstance

is what it is. But I realized in my own life, if I wasn't willing to take responsibility for that, my life would not change. 100%. And we stay stuck in certain patterns when we're not willing to look at ourselves.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a hurt piece. Yeah, that's, that's, I mean, that is the best way I've ever heard it being put. Because I think we hear that self-reflection piece a lot, but it's really that what you've just put the like, the magnifying glass on it, just, it's your invite. You made the choice. You selected it.

And when you realize why you did that, that's what your actual enemy. Like that's what you're actually up against. Yeah. Not up against that person. You're up against this conditioning or habit or pattern. Yes. That is making you choose that type of a person in your life. And it's never the person. That's the thing I realize. It's always me. It's all ways me. And I can make a choice. And what I realize is that that's self-love. That's real self-love. That's real self-love.

It's not just. When we can have the love, love ourselves enough to have the courage to look at ourselves and be honest, look at our patterns, look at our creates, and then make the changes, have the courage then to make the changes that we need, make the changes that we need, that reflect a more loving embrace of ourselves. Nobody can do that. I don't care how much they love you. Now, what we can do is be responsible enough to bring people in our lives who do, who assist in nourishing that self-love. But people can't create it. And I think a lot of times we try to look for relationships that buoy us up,

relationships that confirm ideas of what we think we are. Okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we rely on people to confirm us. Yeah, yeah, versus relying on ourselves and the self-love patterns that we have the courage to create to confirm us. Absolutely, absolutely. And I've heard you say that, that actually, when you surrounded yourself with people who are honest with you, yes, that that's what really helped. Right? Because if you're always surrounding yourself with yes

people or confirmation people, then you're just creating that bubble of confirmation. Yeah. But you actually were saying that, how do we, there's two things there because I find like, attracting people to be honest with you requires two things. One is that you're ready. We all say like, I want real feedback, right? But it's like, you have really, really want real feedback. And that's why you've got to ask that to the people that you really want it from.

Like you can't just throw that around. Like you didn't just go out of the streets and go give me feedback. But one thing is you've got to be ready for honesty. And the second thing is you've got to be able to give honesty to others in yourself too, because if you're struggling to give honesty, then how do you think that person feels about giving it to you or to

anyone? And so we create this cycle of this circle of dishonesty. And even if it's not dishonesty, we're not trying to lie to anyone. Right. It's just, I'm just going to hide it and harbor it. Exactly. That's a lot of what happens in relationships. That people spend a lot of time figuring out how not to be found out. Yeah. Right. So whether it's like, Oh, I don't want this person to know, you know, this person I really care about, to know that I'm actually scared in this area. I don't want my friends to see that I actually don't, don't know what I'm doing. What's going on? We spend so much time masking. You know, feeling as though

we need to be something. You know, one of the things that I will say about long-term relating is that you do get worn down to a place where things can get so raw in the most beautiful way that there's just no more room for pretending and that you know each other so well, you can't hide. And then you come to a place in your relating where you go, now am I just gonna leave this and then go someplace else, create another relationship where I can be more confirmed on what I'd rather see myself as. I create more of a buffer.

A buffer to hide it. Or am I going to stay in this and get to my true self. Wow. And that's usually what the decision comes down to. Right. And it's a hard. It's hard. Confident.

And, you know, even in when I see that people decide to go their separate ways, I go, I get it. Yeah. I get it. Because it is so excruciating. You know, but if you can find the friendship, and that's another thing, there's this friendship that that blossoms you know that

super you know just basically exceeds whatever romantic ideals or you know I Whatever fantasies that you had about your relationship, right? And there's this friendship and this spiritual partnership that starts to be created once you are willing to walk the landmines of the traumatized child together. Cause that's all it is.

That's what it comes down to. It's too traumatized. Too traumatized kids trying to figure it out. Yeah, what are they gonna figure out? And when you sit down and you go, okay, we're gonna walk this landmine together and then you might lose a couple limbs. You good with that?

They'll grow back. They'll grow back. You know what, we can tell grow back. They'll grow back. We can tell the side. They go grow back. They'll be better. They'll be better. They'll be better. They'll be stronger.

You know, but it is. And I think that's the challenge for so many people that, and I think this is not mutually exclusive, but it's like, I think feel, I hear a lot of this and tell me if you feel the same way. I hear a lot of one partner trying to go on this path and one struggling. It's always like that. It's really that it's like, oh, here's two people. And you know, with me and Rade, it was very much like, we did some processing together,

but we also did a lot of processing separately. And I wasn't even conscious that she was doing it. Like I didn't even know, like if I'm completely honest, I'm like, there were times when we were just distance and working on stuff independently. And then when we both figured out our own time, we came back in our own timing and continued to push forward. And so, but I find for a lot of people,

they feel that they're trying, they're trying to face themselves, they're trying to take on those lessons, but then they're like trying to pull someone up. Right. And then they're like trying to get everyone through the landmine. Right.

And it's kind of like, it feels like a lot of pressure. That sounds like a hard place to be. What's your thoughts on that? Like what have been your realization? I'm not looking for a solution. Right. It's like what's been your reflectionisation? I'm not looking for a solution. Right. It's like what's been your reflection of realisation, seeing people go through that hearing that and wanting to support and help them too? I would say that in relationships and when it comes to growth, it's their seesaw.

There are times when, you know, sometimes your partner is going to have to pull you. Yes. Sometimes you go to have to pull your partner. Sometimes you do have to go your separate ways and figure out a whole lot of things. Because the first thing you have to figure out is who you want to be. Definitely. Who do you want to be? Definitely.

That's what it comes down to. That's what it comes down to. What kind of life do you want to have? Who do you want to be? Yeah. And then you can actually communicate that. Right. It's half the time we're just expecting people

to be mind readers. Yeah. And I felt like that for so long, I just wanted people because, and it was because my mom could always read my mind. And this is what really helped me. I just started to look at, and this is something that really helped me,

which I hope you're helps anyone who's listening or watching right now, like I sat there and I was like, what do I emulate that my parents did with me that I am now projecting onto my wife or my partner, whoever it is. And when I started to do that, I started to see all the good things and all these things that I don't want to be. But I'm like, oh, because my mom could always predict and read my mind when I was young, I always expected my partner to be able to do that same thing. Right.

With no information, with no communication, with no help from me, they should just know. And I had the opposite. Right. I wanted to have that mirroring from my parents. And because I didn't have it, I expected it from Will. Right.

And it's so, we end up doing the same thing. You said it's a same thing. Whether you have it or what you do. You know what I mean? And so it comes down to that, like, us coming out of our, you know, what do you call it, the trial. The trauma test child.

Yeah. Traumatized child child or you know, in your case, you know, it's you had a you actually had an experience that you were trying to recreate. Repeat, repeat, you know, and so a beautiful one at that. Yeah. And but a rare one too, like it's a lot to put it back. So you can't just be like, you can't expect anyone to live up to that. You know, and also it's like, what are you expecting that person to live up to? Why? Right, but you know, that's part of all the the ideas of romanticism too.

And when somebody really loves you, they know. They just know. They just know. They just know. If they don't know, then it's not like, it's not true. It's not true. But so many of us operate off of that idea. Movies, media and music. Yes, it's just, they just, it's a lot of fantasy. That's such a great point. You so expect it. You really do. No, and you're like, and this magic fairy dust

of them knowing, and then you put it all on that. So even if someone treats you really badly, but they knew what gift you wanted, or they knew what you wanted to do on your birthday, you take that as the thing, even if they treat you like crap in between. Yeah, I guess messy. You've defined for us so many words today, I feel like.

You've really given us either defined or you've deeply taken us to the... You've really taken us to the depths of so many words today. Like genuinely, when we talk about ego, we talk about self-love. What is your... And you asked me this too, and I'm intrigued by yours, what is your most current, and I say most current because we're trying to evolve. Right. What's like your most current definition and understanding of love? Where is that at right now, and how is your viewpoint of where it is?

I can tell you probably more clearly what I know love isn't. Let's start there. It's a good place to start. Yeah, because I'm still in all honesty, Jay. I'm still trying to figure out what love is. Yeah, me too. Yeah, you know, I think it's a journey. And I think that right now, where I've started is self-love.

You know, and like on the deepest is most excruciating level, ever, right? But what I'm very clear about is that I have no love to offer anyone if I don't love myself. And I'm talking about on a very deep level, right? Through and through, because I just got to a place where I wanted to heal myself so that I have that to offer. Instead of all my trauma, I'm tired of hurting people. And that all comes from my traumas. And so I've made it a point to just do some really deep healing.

Because for this next part of my life, I just, I want to leave a legacy of love, you know what I mean. And so what I have realized love is not romanticism. When I tell you, I've thrown that out the window. I'm like, that ain't it. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

I don't want any parts of it. Yeah, the false, the fake, the magnet. All the false, magnified, projected. I need you to be this, I don't want it. And so what I'm looking to do, you know, I'm in the process of learning to love myself and love others. And I know that true love is not unkind. I know that true love is compassionate.

True love is not always easy. That's for sure. Right. But it's not cruel. And ego has no place. So that's what I know it's not. Love that.

All right. And what I do know also, and this is just me, I feel as though true love has to go from here to here to there. So it's actually that higher source, it has to come from my connection to my connection through the higher source back. Cause this right here, I'll mess it up every time. Believe it, believe it, I'll mess it up every time. Yeah. And it's and it's not like it's like it's just it's it's and I think it's a brilliant design. Yeah. Of the highest. Yeah. You want to love you better come know me. Yeah. You really want to love somebody.

You really want to know yourself. Really want to love yourself. You better come know me. Yeah. You could try this. Yeah. You could try acquiring all these things and I'll give you all the riches you want. Oh, you can have all that. See if it buys you love. See if it gives you the love you're looking for. And it doesn't. It's a brilliant desire. looking for. And it doesn't. It's a brilliant design. And masterful because it works for anyone and everyone. That's when you know it's a design. Like I love that you. Yes. I've never heard it put that way. But you've really, when you describe it as a design, almost like a law. Yes. It's like a law. It's a law. And so that law is so, when you think of it as a law, you just realize that there is no, because I feel like when you first fall in love,

you think you're the exception. Like there is no cop loot, does not think that they are the exception, me included. Yes, me included. When I first got married, I was just like, yeah, I'm the exception. Right? I'm like, my ego is like really proud. I'm like, yeah, I did the exception. Right. I'm like, you know, my ego is like really proud.

Like, I'm like, yeah, I did it differently. I got it wrong. My friend's got it wrong. I'm gonna get it right. You know, that feeling. And then you get into it and you're like, oh, okay. Because it's a law.

It is. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter how evolved you think you are. It doesn't matter how spiritual you think you are. Like, if you think you are all those things, then you've missed the whole law. You missed the whole goal. Yes, that's it. You've missed it. Yeah, you missed it. And I love that you've said it's designed and it's law. When we look at those language, it's just so clear. Like, it's designed this way. Don't try and be that one person who breaks that design or avoids it, it doesn't work like that.

That's the ego and the energy that comes with it. I think I can do better. I can do better and I know better, I'm smarter than, and then all those kind of romantic feelings, they're so powerful and so strong that it makes you feel like you've reached a height that is beyond what it actually is. It's actually not, it's a heightened state that's not in the highest ranks of love. It's actually in a pretty low rank, you know, once you really get into it, you know.

And how have you changed that imagery? Because I feel like with you and, you know, what you really get into it, you know. And how have you changed that imagery? Because I feel like with you and, you know, recently you and Vietnam, you know, I know that you travel sprout and know we want to go to India together. Yes. Like there's just, you've started crafting your life in a way where your imagery is changing. What I mean by that is like we have, like when we hear the word love,

we have a mental picture based on movies, media, music. When you have a, when you think of romance, you have a mental picture on what it looks like because of movies, media, music. Like we have these mental pictures, but you've been changing where you visit, what you read, who you spend time. Like it's not just like, you're not just thinking

about this stuff. My point is like you're making a real effort to travel, but also travel internally, with books, with listening, with teachers, whatever it may be, to go there. It's not just like, you don't, you kind of start thinking this and then it happens, if that makes sense. Yeah. That makes sense. It makes a lot of sense.

Tell me about any experiences that you've had where you've traveled or you've been that have just left like a, or even, and it could be traveled through a book, anything that had a, left a big impression on you where there was something which gave you more faith in what you're saying, that gave you even more strength in what you're saying about how love goes up and then that if that makes sense it makes all the sense in the world and I was say My deepest travel has been In my bedroom in meditation You know meditation people think about about it and really lofty terms, right? So

I'm going to take meditation out for a minute and just say in my bedroom and stillness. Love it. Because if you can just be still, right? And in stillness is where I learn to have a very intimate relationship with myself. And a very intimate relationship with the higher source. Right? And those moments when I'm in the fire of that pain. And I have to look at what's coming up, why it's coming up. And just have the patience to sit with myself and eventually that higher source comes in with an embrace of some kind

that helps me understand why I am where I am and helps me see what I need to change within, whatever trauma pattern within that I need to change, in order to dissolve a cycle that I'm in, a cycle that I'm trying to get out of, or a pain that I'm in. Usually, when I realize if I'm in an enormous amount of pain of some kind, then I have a false belief. So I sit in stillness and I listen until I can recognize the false belief. And it may not come in one sitting. Right? It might take two, might take three. But it always comes. because once the universe knows your intention, you know what I mean and what you're in search for, honestly what you're in search for, the universe gives you the answers. And so that's been my biggest travel is inward.

The best answer because that's available to everyone. Yes. That's what I love about it. As soon as you said that, it's available to each and every one of us. It's not about going, you don't need to go anywhere. And I have often said, you know, like I've often said, like a monk is simply a traveler except the journeys within. Yeah. Like that's the real travel. That's the real travel. And you don't need to. And what you just said so beautifully about stillness and the way you describe it, and what you were saying that if I, you just say, if I'm experiencing any pain, it's because of a belief.

Yes. It's because of a belief that I have. And that's so powerful. Like that is so profound. And when you went a step further, it's like, it has to be what you said, like, in touch with the universe, it has to be a request, not a demand.

Usually our question to the universe is not a question, it's rhetorical, it's like, why is this happening to me? That's right. That's not stillness, that's not what you're saying. It's, you're not, you know, when you're sitting there and you're just like, why is this happening to me? What's going on? Like, why am I, like, that's not stillness that's not what you're saying. You're not, you know, when you're sitting there and you're just like, why is this happening to me? What's going on? Like, why am I like, that's not stillness, that's not a question. A question is like, where's this pain coming from?

Yes, why? What does this show me? Show me? I'm always, yes. With someone I was speaking to the other day, they called it an innocent request. Like, you know, it has to have that that intention of that innocent request. It has to have that intention of that innocent request. Please tell me. Exactly. No, it's got to be now because that's that energy that closes us. It has to be the most, the thing that I've realized in my journey is surrender. Realizing my journey is surrender. So true. Right. And I'm only at a very elementary level of surrender, you know, and trying to get to

I'm every day, Jay, I'm trying to deepen my bow, you know, to my heart, to the heart of others, to the highest. Just trying to find those levels of surrender to bring me the peace. And the love within that I can share with others, you know, And I think for me too, I've learned that love is not red, it's blue. Love is really cool. It's all fiery and passionate, you know. It's like you can't moments of that, right? Yeah, moments of that. But if you expect your foundation, moments of that. But if you expect your foundation, love has to become gentle and it has to have a certain stillness in order to really penetrate. In a way in which you can embrace all the beauty and all that's ugly as well.

And I think that people think love is supposed to just be beautiful and fluffy. Well, when we get to true love, yes, it is. All of it. You can smile at it all. Right. That's what blue love gives you. Red love. All kinds of aversion. Yeah. All kinds of not that. No. No. No. You can't be that. That's not acceptable. It's got so many conditions. Yeah. Conditions. You know, I say blue love is the unconditional love. And that's where I'm trying to live.

You know, and it's it's a headache getting there. You know, but that's one of the reasons why I'm looking forward to our trip to India. Um, you know, I'm, I'm at to put my good, my big girl pants on because, you know, India's one of those, but yeah, no, but you know, India's one of those places that you gotta embrace it all. It's so, it's a lot of suffering. I mean, I have a very, very difficult time

looking at and being confronted with suffering. Yeah, definitely. And India has a special kind. It does. Right? And I am looking forward to that confront, you know, because it's going to be that next place within me to be able to that blue love I'm talking about.

When you look at it and you understand within me to be able to that blue love I'm talking about. When you look at it and you understand that in what I call the spiritual ecosystem, it can be no aversion. And so just being able to embrace it. But it also has shown me that that's where my codependency comes from, always trying to prevent suffering. You know what I mean?

It's only to create it. Yeah. Exactly. That's so interesting. It's always to create more. Yes. That is so interesting. Yep.

All of us wants to prevent suffering, but actually that is what ends up us creating more suffering. Wow, that is so far. I never thought about that. I've created a lot of suffering in my life with people that I care about in trying to prevent their suffering, only to create more. That's a pain. That's been a jagged pill to swallow for me, you know, but it's lessons, really painful

lessons I've had to have in order to see my codependency. I can see it. No. Yeah, there's no- I was like, what, how do you hurt people by helping me? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How does it make sense?

It does it. Let me show you. Ba! How does that feel? I don't like it. There you go. Yeah. And that's the amazing thing about India,

what you were saying to go back a few steps was like India is a place where nothing's hidden you see Someone being born on the street and you see like people dying in South France. It's like nothing's hidden And it's this extreme and it's the extreme Yeah beauty and rich. And you know, in India, everything is right. I mean, the extremes of it all.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And it, it, it's a lot for me. Yeah. It's a lot to have. Yeah. You know, but it's, it's, it's where my lesson. Correct.

You know, everything we're trying. Yeah, it's trying to like, like, we walk away from it. Yeah it's, it's where my lesson. Correct. You know, everything we're trying to write. Yeah, it's a try to like, we walk away, try to like, you know, yeah, yeah. You know, to just be able to walk in it and have it and at the right time. At the right time. Yeah, at the right time, we have to recognize that too, that it's again, the extreme point comes back to everything

because it's like, you can push things too far and you can do things too soon. Yeah. And the right time doesn't really exist. There's never going to be a right time, but you have to take that sense check and the more self-aware you become. You know when you're stronger and readyer and you're prepared. How have you done this with Willow and Jaden?

Because I think I've had the fortune of spending some time with Willow and she's an old soul. She is. She's incredible. And I've got to spend a little bit of time with Willa and she's an old soul. She is. She's incredible. And I've got to spend a little bit of time with Jaden. And I look at him more from afar and the work he's done. And I'm always telling you how impressed I am and how incredible it is to see the work he's doing for the world. And so for me, it's like, how did you? And again, and I know you don't see this way.

And that's what I'm setting it up. It's like, I'm not asking this from the point of view like Jada you're perfect and how the kids prefer I'm not I'm not asking for that perspective because I know you wouldn't want that either I'm asking it from the perspective of like when I met them They seem like people who are curious They are knowledgeable for sure Fabian the years, but they're experimenters. They're open. They're not they're not Fearful. They're okay with getting it wrong. You know, there's an openness, and a playfulness,

in a good way. And I've just been deeply, and I wouldn't even use the word impressed. I think I've just been so in awe when I'm with them, and just that the humans they are, and how they connect and interact. And so, I mean, of course, you should be very proud that they're just such unbelievable. And this, we haven't even talked about their talents. No.

But I'm talking about them as people. Yeah. Like, how have you tried and how have you and will tried so much to give them the values of curiosity, of gratitude, of love, of kindness, because they're aspiring for these same things in their own ways. But they're aspiring for these things. They're not aspiring for other stuff. Yeah. From the conversations I've had with them, like, they're aspiring for these things. They're not aspiring for other stuff.

From the conversations I've had with them, like they're aspiring for what we're talking about now, in their own way. In their own way. I wish I could take credit for all of that, but they really came to me. They were given to me. My, let me even change that.

I've been, they were born through me. They aren't mine. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. Um, but they came like that. Yeah. You know, I would have to say a lot of that is the blessings of the highest, you know, and, um, I would have to say a lot of that is the blessings of the highest, you know. And I will say that Will and I in regards to the foundation that we created for Jaden and Will and I'll talk about Trey after one of the gifts that my mother gave me,

even in the chaos of addiction, was that she stood out of my way. Yeah. And I was allowed to self-actualize early. Right? And try a lot of things out, you know, and, and, and, and, you know, win and fail by my own hand. And Will and I wanted to offer, we offered that to Willow and Jaden as well, they self actualize very early. Right. My belief is the greatest gift you can give a child is to give them to themselves as fast as possible.

Right. And that's scary too. It's for a parent with the control of the trying to prevent suffering. I mean, that's why I lost it straight off, because I'm like, it's been, you know, and it's trying. As a parent. You know, it's been really trying. But you have to have the courage to be, you know, at, look at the, I'm gonna put those little bumpers that are on the, in the bowling alley.

Oh yeah, yeah. But the bumpers up, so the ball's not gonna fall in the gutter. Yeah, yeah. You know, you don't go that far. Exactly. So as ball's not gonna fall in the gutter. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Exactly. So as they were growing up, just realizing how close the bumpers needed to be and as they got older, just being able to move them further, further, further,

further until now they just, not gonna fell up. Now they can play without you. You got it. You know what I mean? And trusting that the same source that looked over me and has protected me is the same. So there's, let me tell you something,

there's no better parent. And I got that firsthand. So because of my experience, because I was really parented by, when I didn't even know it. Yeah. When I think back on my childhood and the kind of crap I was into,

how many times, how many situations I put myself in that would have, me being here as a miracle, and I'm not just saying that to be like on some whatever, right? That's real top. That goes for Will and I both, right? And so when I started to look at my life in that way

and how I've been protected and the harsh lessons I had been given, I was like, well, the source is a fog better pair than I ever could be. I think it's just fall back. And just, you know, we'll put these, right, we'll put these bumpers up and just witness, you know, and the great thing is, is that when things get real for them, they call us. Yeah, of course. And they ask.

Of course. But they ask of course They have that friendship with they have a friendship with us both and a real trust. Yeah a real trust And I'm so grateful for and I think it's because I never Really treated my kids like children. I didn't even know how to do that because that's not how I was raised. I just didn't relate to them like that because I wasn't related to like that. You know what I'm saying?

My father at seven told me, A, listen, I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic and I'm a criminal. I can't be your dad at seven, right? And so I had a lot of respect for that. Because I was like, okay, I know what it, thank you. At seven. At seven.

I was like, okay, okay, cool. It wasn't like, oh, I can't, I'm like dad, right? It was like, oh, I know where you're at. I'm just, you verbalized it. He verbalized it. He didn't play no games. And till today, that's how I am. He verbalized it. He verbalized it. He didn't play no games until until today That's how I am if you could just be straight up with me. We're good. That's amazing

You know what I mean? And so I Did not play games with my kids. I didn't really know how to be a kid parent. Yeah, you didn't test them I didn't let yeah, it wasn't like who you know, it was just like a listen. We in this together Mommy's gonna make some mistakes, you know what I'm saying? So what's popping? What's going on with you? It's like, and I just kept them at my hip. They went where I went.

They would, they would just at my hip constantly, but I didn't do the like, I wasn't the soccer mom. I wasn't like the, I was like, look, mom's got a gig in Australia. We're all packing up, going to Australia for a year and you rolling with me. You're gonna be on set with me. You know what I mean?

And you just said, mommy's hit. They just, when I went on tour doing my metal music, hey, mommy's going on tour. We about to be doing some metal stuff. Yeah. We could risk it. Yeah, we could risk them. It's a on tour. Yeah. We about to be doing some metal stuff. Yeah. Yeah. We could risk it. Yeah, we could risk them. It's a new experience.

This is going to be good for everybody. You're rolling with me. So, you know, and just living life together, you know, and allowing them to experience and express experience and express and make decisions about their lives at very early ages, even like Jayden's always been a night owl. To never get him to go to sleep, you still can't. He would never lay down until I did. And as he got older and he'd be working or he had school or what have you, I wasn't going to fight him about going to bed at a particular time. I just wasn't.

We would negotiate how long he could play video games. I remember that as conversation. Yeah, you know, but I would have to, I would go, so you know, I said, I want you to pay attention to your your level of energy throughout the day. You know, with you going, you go to bed whenever you want, but you have to be responsible for that. Yeah. So he would go to bed and then, you know, figure out his bedtime.

Totally. Right? So even just little things like that, like eight, seven, yeah. go to bed and then figure out his bedtime. Totally. So even just little things like that, like eight, seven years old. Or there was a violation. You know, not asking them, what do you think we should do about it? If you were the parent in this situation, how would you handle? I like that question. That's a great question.

I told you off the video games at 8, you tried to be slick and you played till 9. You violated our agreement. What would you do in my position? Oh. Oh, mommy, I think I probably... I probably tell my kid they couldn't play video games for two weeks.

He discovered himself in through it. That works for me. Does that work for you? Yeah. I said, okay, are we in agreement? No video games for two weeks? Yeah. So also instead of me putting boundaries in on them,

teaching them how to do it for themselves. Oh, wow. I love that. Which I think is a big one. That's huge. I mean, as an adult, most of us don't know how to put boundaries in us. And not trying to put shame on mistakes. That was another big one.

I hated being felt. I hated feeling like I had to have some kind of shame on mistakes I made as a child. And so I really, I always told my kids, like, tell me the truth and we're gonna work it out. And we always did. So I never had to punish in a certain way. It was just like, we're gonna talk about this and then I want you to tell me what boundaries

you put in on yourself. Yeah. In an honest way. That's such a powerful way. There's so much self development and self growth I'm going to talk about this and then I want you to tell me what boundaries you put in on yourself. Yeah. And an honest way. That's such a powerful way. Yeah. There's so much self development and self growth in that for them already. Yeah.

I mean, that's, yeah, that's, I look at my parenting and my parents will always, how I describe them with me at least, like until 14 it was, there was a lot of pressure. There was a lot of, uh, what's the road where there was a lot of constraints and there was a lot of, what's the road where, there was a lot of constraints and I was meant to be. And then when I turned 14 for whatever reason, I started to rebel and get stuff wrong and make my own mistakes and fight for my independence. Right.

And from that day on, my parents started to slowly back away and be supportive from a distance. Yeah. And that's what my parents had been since that day. But that's because my parents were waiting for me to be able to tell them, hey, look, I'm ready distance. Yeah. And that's what my parents have been since that day. But that's because my parents were waiting for me to be able to tell them that, hey, look, I'm ready now. Yes.

I don't really want you to be that for me anymore. And I want to make my own decisions. And so when people talk about how is it become your mango like doing this, it's like, actually, wasn't that hard because my parents were just supported from a distance. They've never really tried to make my choices for me after 14. Up until that point, they were very involved. And then when they saw that,

oh, he's not gonna listen to me. He's not, you know, they're gonna let me. And so it's interesting how, but I love what you're saying. It's about self-boundaries, self-discipline. Cause that's what it is. It's called self-discipline. It's self-discipline.

Yeah, the only way you're disciplined is by someone else. Exactly. In your life growing up. So you never know what self-discipline is. It is. You've actually helped your children learn self-discipl else. Exactly. In your life growing up. So you never know what self-discipline means. It is. You've actually helped your children learn self-discipline.

Absolutely. That's huge. That's huge. You talk about at 14, your parents backing off, Jaden at 15 made a request to leave the house. Yeah. I was one of the most excruciating decisions I made in my life was letting him leave. But I knew he needed it. Yes.

I knew. And I told Will, I said, we'll be lucky to keep him in this house till he's 16. I knew that when he was three. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so at 15 and very respectfully was like, this time for me to go, I need to go out here and feel the rain. And I knew he was right.

And I had to let him go at 15. Yeah. And that's always hard for a parent. I don't know what that feels like. Best decision I ever had. Yeah, still, yeah. I always knew that. I mean, I was in the rain at 12.

Yeah. And I was like, if he can't survive the reign in Calabasas at 15, I was a five in the reign at 12 in Baltimore. And so I also love that I had the experiences that I had and the extremes that I had because I have been willing to allow my kids to engage in life in a certain manner without being utterly fearful like some parents like the people saying to me all it's like you know I'm going 15 like yeah Yeah, he had the resources. He made his own money. Yeah, you know what I'm saying is like Yeah, if he can't if he can't survive in, you know, what's

been creative for him and what he's creative for himself, then that's a beautiful way of looking at him. Yeah, I'm like, I was like, I completely utterly trust that he's got this. Yeah, he did. Yeah, exactly. He did. And he is. He's cool. You know, I love that. When I'm hearing you talk and everyone is listening to you talk, what I want everyone to realize today is, what I love about when Jada shares about what she's going through and going through still and what we're working through and we're working together, it's like,

and I don't like using this because it's so cliche, I'm trying to find better language for it. So we can do it together, but it's like, it's the real deep work. Like it's not this isn't like... The fluffy, the fluffy, it's not fluffy like self-care, like just tell yourself you love yourself every day. Like it's not that. Like please do not. When when J.D. took that self-care, if you've listened to this episode, you know it's not that. Like this isn't just the like, be nice to yourself. Like being nice to yourself means looking at all your demons and your and the pains and the

like that's what it really means to be nice to yourself. Like if you're being nice to this room, you clean it clearly. You go into every corner. You don't just say, oh, you're a beautiful room. You clean it and you purify it in every place. And when you talk about red table talk is the table of purification. Yeah. And the table of transparency. For me, it's like, what I see you doing is everything you're doing, even Huller, you know, and like all the work that you're doing now, it's like it feels like you have infused all of what you've learned and grown in and you're now trying to share it through your work. No, but you're, I mean, beautifully sharing it. Like, I mean, the conversations you've

added to the table, Huller, like all the work you're doing now, it's just completely infused with purpose and with a desire to help, but not preach. You're not preaching, there's no... I can't preach. I'm not preaching. I'm not preaching. You can preach. You can definitely preach.

But you're not doing it now. You're doing the most compassionate kind of thing. I've only ever met this day there. Right. So for me, when I'm looking at you, I'm so, and that's what's always, and I said this to you, and I said it to Wilhelm, you know, when we're together, I was like, what, what you both do with your platform and the growth you've had in the incredible careers you have, but the fact that your heart is doing this, like, to me, that's, that's what excites me so much. Like, that's what gives me so much faith and hope and like, just, just so much like, bigger to do even do what I do when I see both of you do it. And I'm like, despite everything, you could do anything you

want to do right now. You could do anything and you know that you can do anything. You don't have to do anything. But you want to do this. Yeah. And that just shows how important it is. Yeah, I feel like I just feel like the more that we can share about our journeys, you know, it's like because we're all journeying, you know, at some capacity. And so it's just like, I know that in my life, when people had the courage to really talk to me. And I'm saying, really talk to me. And I'm saying, really talk to me. It helped change the trajectory of my life with a conversation.

But it has to come from real places and experience. Clarissa Pinkola has this saying, the well-written upon woman, right? And I look at people in that way. It's like people sometimes are so shameful or feel so ashamed about experiences that they've had or things that they've done or pitfalls. And I always say, you have nothing to share if you haven't been through something. Yeah, totally. You know what I mean?

At least such a boring story. Yeah, and it's like, that's where we get the real deep lessons, you know. And I had a friend of mine who's going through a really bad divorce. And I was telling her, I was like, man, just know this. There are some really powerful blessings on the other side of pain. I promise you, you know, if we're willing to embrace the experience in that way. Absolutely. You know, so amazing.

Thank you, Jay. You're an amazing interviewer. Is there anything that I have not asked you that you wish I did? No. And you're like, J, if I was sitting here, I would be with you. You're an amazing, I was an amazing interviewer.

Yeah, love. This has been great. No, thank you. It's always so great talking to you. All right. I mean, my conversations with you are by far some of my favorite conversations that we've had. And we've talked for hours. We have we can go

That's a sure so we end every interview the final five. Yep, and these are rapid fire questions We have to answer in one word or one sentence maximum. Okay, so we're gonna find this hard. Okay, because we can talk I also go for an attendant. So these are your final five. Okay What's something you once took for granted that you value now? People. Beautiful. What's the one question you ask yourself the most? Probably would be who are you? Yeah, beautiful. Okay. Question number three, what's the best advice you've ever received or read or heard or been given? Lath now, because you're going to laugh later. Oh, okay. Ruby D.

Nice. I liked it. Okay. Question number four, the worst advice you've ever received. You liked the worst advice I've ever received is for myself. That's how I'm doing. That's beautiful. That's how I'm doing it. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Anything that you say to yourself. Yeah, it's like, I've given myself some of the worst advice.

Jesus, yeah, just like, you know, going in and showing, you know, who's boss. You know, whatever, like all that, you know, it's just the worst advice. That's special, that's special's special. Yeah, that's special. That's the show. Most people will remember something bad that they've been told. No, I have given myself the worst advice. Yes. And fifth and final question. If if you could give

everyone one practice or one habit that they should practice in 2020, every day, a daily practice or daily habit, and a simple one, it can be anything. What would you want the world to do? Stillness, any amount of stillness you can give yourself where there's five minutes, where there's three hours. Go someplace, be quiet.

Turn your phone off, turn off everything, and just sit in stillness so you can hear yourself, right? And if the longer you stay, you will hear beyond yourself, right? Into those higher, reach into that higher, right? But that would be my advice, just find the courage to be still. That's beautiful. Yeah.

Thank you so much, Jada. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This has been so wonderful. I feel like everything you shared today again,

as it always was just so open, so honest, you're so able to just go there and talk about all your beautiful parts that you've taken within. And thank you for taking us on the journey with you. But thank you for doing this. Thank you for having me, Jair. So grateful to have you as a friend and so grateful to have these exchanges and for many

more. Yeah. To keep, you know, for a lifetime of working through all this purification, purification is the best way. It is. It's the best way. It's not pain, it's not healing. It's purification.

Like, we need to, you know, yeah, thank you so much. So grateful to you. And I know my audience is very grateful to you. Well, thank you for having me. I love talking to you. And this was a much needed conversation today. OK. A nice way to start my day, James.

Thank you. No, I'm glad. I need the word to be. Thank you so much. you I am Jan Levan Zant and I'll be your host for The R Spot. Each week listeners will call me live to discuss their relationship issues. Nothing will tear a relationship down faster than two people with no vision. Does y'all are just flopping around like fish out of water? Mommy, daddy, your ex, I'll be talking about those things and so much more.

Check out the R-Spawn on the iHeart video app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum, I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bond for bond, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner, where kind of trying to get

invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Eva Longoria. And I'm Maite Gomes-Rachon. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast. Hungry for history!

On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages, from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two for you to try at home. Listen to Hungry for History on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.