On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Jahnavi: How to Create Inner Calm When Life Feels Overwhelming (THIS Simple Daily Practice When Your Mind Won't Stop!)

Episode Date: December 26, 2025

Today, Jay sits down with longtime friend and Grammy-nominated devotional artist Jahnavi Harrison for a deeply personal conversation about faith, creativity, and living a life of service. Together, they reflect on spiritual grounding as a daily practice, not rooted in perfection but in the ability to remain steady through uncertainty and change. Jay and Jahnavi explore the often unseen journey behind purpose-driven work, how passion gradually becomes discipline, and discipline shapes a life of devotion. They unpack the courage it takes to walk a less conventional path, especially in a world that often values conformity and external validation. Through stories of growing up between two worlds, wrestling with self-expression, and finding healing through music and mantra, they invite us to reconsider success not as achievement, but as alignment. As the conversation unfolds, their focus turns to prayer, service, and staying connected when you feel lost. Jay and Jahnavi share why speaking to God, serving others, and creating space for vulnerability can become powerful anchors during difficult seasons. Ultimately, this conversation reminds us that spirituality isn’t about having everything figured out, it’s about showing up with sincerity, listening deeply, and choosing to give, even when the path ahead is unclear.   In this interview, you'll learn: How to Find Peace Through Sacred Sound How to Stay Grounded When Life Feels Overwhelming How to Turn Doubt Into a Deeper Faith How to Express Yourself When You Feel Invisible How to Trust Your Intuition Over External Pressure How to Integrate Spirituality Into Everyday Life How to Reconnect With Purpose Through Service How to Talk to God in Your Own Way   You are allowed to take your time, to find your voice in your own way, and to choose a path that feels meaningful rather than impressive. Healing and purpose don’t come from perfection, but from showing up sincerely and trusting that what you offer with love will return in its own time.   Check out Jahnavi’s Grammy nominated album Into the Forest here.     With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty   Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here.    Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast    What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 04:06 What Truly Defines Who You Are 06:06 Are You Actively Seeking Truth? 08:54 Where a Love for Music First Began 10:31 Understanding Devotional Mantra Music 13:31 Growing Up With an Unconventional Education 21:35 Navigating Identity and Belonging 24:27 Learning to Trust Your Inner Confidence 25:27 When Parents Are Doing Their Best 27:49 Questioning Life Within a Spiritual Community 31:02 From Curiosity to Creative Mastery 34:51 Experiencing the Divine Through Sound 36:43 Creating Space for Others to Feel Free 39:39 When Music Becomes Healing 41:35 Turning Personal Prayer Into Shared Experience 45:23 The Biggest Misconceptions About Spiritual People 49:17 Growing Up Surrounded by Spiritual Validation 51:05 Holding a Safe Space for Spiritual Exploration 54:22 Navigating a Crisis of Faith 56:45 What It Feels Like to Lose Faith 59:35 Using Meditation to Access Stillness 01:03:09 Asking Yourself, “Am I Being of Service?” 01:09:20 Jahnavi on Final Five   Episode Resources: Jahnavi Harrison | Website Jahnavi Harrison | Instagram Jahnavi Harrison | Facebook Jahnavi Harrison | YouTube Jahnavi Harrison | XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Hart podcast Guaranteed Human. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leveh, Rufus Wainwright, Mavis Staples, really too many to name, and there's still so much more to come in this new season.

Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mail Room. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like most guys, I haven't been to the doctor in way too long. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Every week, we're breaking down the world of men's health from testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility. We'll talk science without the jargon and get your real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about.

So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. What up, y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from him? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash.

I don't know how you got on the show. Boo, somebody had tomatoes. I'm kidding. But if they had tomatoes, they would have thrown the tomatoes. Let's be honest. We've all had those moments we'd rather forget. We bumped our head. We made a mistake.

The deal fell through. We're embarrassed. We failed. But this podcast is about that and how we made it through. So when they sat me down, they were kind of like, we got into the small talk, And they were just like, so what do you got?

What? What ideas? And I was like, oh, no. What? Check out Not My Best Moment with me, Kevin on stage, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. There's so many different ways that people pray. For some people, it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized way of placing their body in a certain position or doing certain actions. I think all of those things are designed to bring us into a certain state.

of mind and of being that allows, can allow you to express some of these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard to access. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier and more healed. Today's guest is one of my dearest friends of the last 20 years, but she's also one of the most talented musicians. She uses music not just to entertain but to heal. Charnavi is a devotional singer, writer and artist whose voice has become a refuge for people searching for peace and spiritual grounding. Through her performances, recordings and global workshops, Charnavi has devoted her life to helping people experience the power of mantra, meditation and sacred sound. Her work invites us to pause, breathe and reconnect

with our inner life. And she's also been nominated. for her very first Grammy. If you're part of the Academy, this is my personal request. Go and vote for her. I'm so excited to welcome to On Purpose, my dear friend, Janovee Harrison. Janami, it's so wonderful to have you here.

I just got a massive confidence boost. You, I mean, I just want to let people know. So I've known you now for like 20 years. And I met you through our temple and spiritual community in London, which is where we first met. and we would have both been at college or something like that. And I am so fortunate and so excited about this because sometimes I post these pictures of me on social media,

which are like how it started, how it's going. And all of those, how it started, so many of them were with you. So me and Janovee, for everyone who doesn't know, what we would do is we would do events together where I would speak and Janavi would lead a mantra meditation. and we would like a, that was like our duo. Tag team, yeah, yeah, exactly. And we'd travel all over England.

We did events in London. We did events in Weymouth. We did events. Cambridge. Cambridge. We did events in maybe Oxford. We would do events and we've done this for years together. And that's always what we did.

It was always our duo. And then since I moved to L.A., Janovee comes to my house every single year. And we do an event where Radi will organize this beautiful gathering of all of our friends. and Genevieve will lead a meditation and people are always so moved and just, it's pretty amazing like thinking about being friends for 20 years

and seeing our relationship has always been service-based of wanting to give spiritual experiences to others. But at the same time, you lived with us during the pandemic for a few months, I think. Yeah, surprisingly, I did. So I'm really excited because rarely do I get to sit with someone that I've known for 20 years on the show. Yeah.

And I'm so excited that you've been nominated for a Grammy I mean, it's just such a like monumental historical occasion for, you know, our whole tradition. Yeah. And to really see that just how far you've taken spiritual mantra music to help people and etc. How does it feel? I mean, it's a huge honor. And like you said, it's it feels like an honor not, you know, it's part of our training. And I think that the spiritual tradition that I've grown up in that,

you know, you get an honor and it might have your name attached to it, but you think about how many people have brought you to that moment, how many hands and hearts and minds have all collaborated to, you know, whether it's creating something or whatever it is, it's such a collective endeavor. So I feel honored personally, but I feel honored on behalf of everybody. And yeah, it's incredible. It's amazing. I mean, you've, you know what, it's really interesting because obviously I've seen you grow and you know you tour the world you do retreats you know you made an album with our dear friend willow who came on the podcast with last time it's been amazing to watch but I almost this is really exciting for me because even when you know

someone when I get to sit in the interview with them I'm always thinking I'm actually going to get to know them in a way that I don't before yeah so I want to go back to your childhood yeah and I want to ask you, what is a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today or embodies who you are today? Wow. Well, I know with these kind of things, you're supposed to say the very first thing that comes into your head. And I'm seeing myself in a field near my house. You know, I grew up outside of London, but it's not that far from the city, but it's an area that there's a lot of protected farmland and stuff. So there's a lot of fields and forest.

And it really feels quite rural. And these fields were close to my house. So I used to love walking, cycling there, and just being in nature. And yeah, they would rotate the crops and the things that were grown in the field. And certain years there would be these incredible yellow flowers, rapeseed flowers or sometimes called mustard flowers and you could just kind of walk amongst them and be completely engulfed by these yellow flowers yellow as far as I could see so I don't know why that came to my head but yeah that's I guess that's something that's defined um who I am connection to nature

and just yeah finding a lot of inspiration in that do you still spend a lot of time in nature I try to yeah yeah I do in where is it where you are now or when you're you go back home because I know you don't live in London. Yeah, yeah. I mean, for the last, you know, almost three years we've been living in the Bay Area. So that's famous around the world for the incredible nature. So now we've got the redwood trees and, you know, the incredible California coast. So, yeah, we try to be out in that environment as much as possible.

But I love to, like, you know, I consider myself a bit of a tree nerd. So wherever I go in the world, I'm always trying to learn about what trees are around. And, yeah, it's just something that inspires me a lot. Yeah, I mean, I obviously know your parents. Yeah. Your dad actually was our wedding priest for me and Bradley. Yeah. And so, yeah, she did our wedding ceremony.

And I've known your parents from 20 years now as well. And they've always been just so wonderful. And, you know, they're so loved by our community. Yeah. And everyone has such an affinity for them. Like, what do you think each of them gave you growing up that you carry with yourself today? like what was a quality or a value or a belief or even mindset that you think has really stayed with you for all these years? They're both truth seekers. That's something that I think brought them together. I mean, they both joined the spiritual community for, I think, around a decade before they got married.

So they came from their respective religious traditions that they were brought up with and even countries. You know, my mom's from Canada. and both of them went on a personal odyssey of a sort, you know, searching for truth and meaning, purpose, and life. So I think that courage to depart from the script that's being given, which I know a lot of people had in the, you know, the 60s, 70s, a lot of young people felt emboldened to take some unconventional steps. But not only did they sort of try that on, but they've committed to that life and to deepening, I think, with every year.

And to have parents that are, yeah, they're so committed to a life of service and devotion and community. I think both of them in their own way. My mom's the one, I mean, actually, both of them are very people, people, you know. They know a lot of people. they remember people's names, but they really care about people as well. I think in our community, if they walk from point A to point B, you know, like a five-minute walk, they'll be stopping constantly with every person and care about what's going on in their life at the moment. So I think that's something that's made a deep impression on me.

It's hard to follow in their footsteps, you know, in my life. And I guess in the life of all of us who have grown up with the internet and social media, we have the ability to be connected to so many more people than ever before. And it's difficult to bring that same quality of presence and attention and care to all of our interactions. But it's a kind of a gold standard that I have in my mind. Yeah, so much. It's hard to measure all the things you've received from your parents. Did you always know that you wanted to create?

music did you always know that I didn't know that I wanted to create music in a formal way but I was always I think I was always doing it without consciously realizing that was a thing like I just when I was home recently my mom had some cassette tapes from that I used to record myself you know at what age I'm like probably seven eight nine years old and I had a one of those keyboards keyboard and I would just put on a drumbeat and I would just play I didn't know how to play keyboard but I had total lack of you know inhibition I just record myself spontaneously and I would sing a bit tell a story make up the story as I went along and they were just meant for

my sister to hear like bedtime stories and stuff like that but when I listen back I was like oh I guess I was kind of making up songs and things like that but yeah it was you any good now when you listen back? No, it was embarrassing. I was really embarrassing. We need to hear them. I need to hear this. I think I'm going to digitize them just so I can listen back and be like, wow, I've come

a long way. But I mean, I love to sing. You know, I grew up surrounded by music. My dad and mum both love singing. My dad was really well known for his voice. And yeah, we sung as a family together. So I think it was just always around me. but I'm you know quite introverted by nature so I was never like I want to be a singer yeah

what do you what do you think what's the difference for someone who doesn't know yeah what's the difference between devotional mantra music yeah and popular music or music in general like how would you differentiate them I think there's a few key differences one is one is the most obvious which is which is the lyrics um with with with mantra music specifically a mantra is you know a sacred word or phrase often containing names that refer to the to the supreme being and it's repeated so you know people's first reaction is like often what oh why is that why are you saying the same thing over and over again but the idea is that it's a type of purifying like I always think of a washing machine you know if you had clothes that were really dirty you put

them in the washing machine a few times or something like that. So it's sound vibration that is intended to clarify, purify the heart and mind. But I think the other key difference is the intention of the music. So the intention is often prayer is to connect, like you were saying at the beginning, to that sacred space within. Whereas I think, you know, music can have all kinds of intentions. There can be the intention of the artist just to express something. to just to connect with the listener or just to entertain. I don't mean just in a, you know, to minimize what that is. But yeah, the quality of it is different. You can, you can encounter that. You can feel it. Yeah, no, it's, I remember when I first got exposed to it, it was addictive and

intoxicating in a way that was something I had an experience before. I remember my, my friends and I would love going out to parties and clubs and things like that. And then when I had to versional music for the first time. I was, I was like, wait, why do I like this? But it felt familiar and it felt, it felt like it, I don't know, connected with a part of me that had been buried for some time or not, you know, not awakened. And yeah, it has a really special quality. And now, obviously, years later, it's, it's one of my favorite things to experience, especially when you're churning. Did you feel that straight away? Do you remember if you, did it take a while to appreciate it or immediately you felt?

on my on one of the first retreats I went on like I felt it immediately it was there was a part of it was just fun because there's so much you know there's dancing there's trying like it's yeah it's such a celebration yeah it's not always just sitting correct in meditation exactly it's so festive yeah so I think there's a part of that but there were there were certain people and um yeah i'll tell you later of who specifically but like yeah they were they were just they were just specific, there were definitely experiences I had very early on that made me very convinced that the practice made sense and beautiful and special. But yeah. So if you were, so you were always artistic, as in you're always playing around. Talk to me about the discovery because

so much of our community and our audience is always in the pursuit of their passion. And obviously you're doing something you love. You're doing something that's more niche. You're also doing extremely successfully. This is what you do. It's what you offer to the world. And I think often we live in a world today where we think, well, if I'm not doing something that's really mainstream and if I'm not doing something that has millions of followers, then I can't do it. And then it can't be successful and it can't take care of me and my family. And I think there are people like yourself and others I know that have found something you love that serves other people, makes them happy, is able to, you know, get nominated for a Grammy. Talk to me about the discovery, the early

discovery of this passion or maybe it's not maybe it was always a passion but the discovery of mastery of it what did you what did you study at college what did you think you actually let's go backwards what did you think you were going to be when you were like 11 years old because I feel we all get asked that question what did you what did you write I'm intrigued what did you yeah I remember so I went to school at the temple in the temple community till I was about 10 years old and then I went to, you know, a bigger, regular school. And what was that transition like? That was hard.

It was really hard. Talk to me about the difference. So I didn't go to a school like that. So I only ever went to public schools and grammar schools in England and ever went to a spiritual school. So talk to me about what that means. Yeah. And then the transition from.

Yeah. So the school at the temple, so the place where I went to school is called Bakhti Vedanta Manor. And, you know, it's in many ways, I do. an idyllic environment. There's, you know, it's kind of 80 acres of beautiful country land. There's cows there. There's a beautiful lake. It was a very special environment to grow up in. The school was very small, so we had very individual attention from the teachers. There was a lot of singing, drama, art, you know, in addition to the usual things we studied. And also we would lead the chanting in the temple once a week as a whole school.

So we were doing... Are you still learning the national curriculum? Yes, we were doing the national curriculum. So we were doing all the regular subjects, but we would also have time where we would study texts like the Bhagavad Gita. We would learn, you know, verses and things, even from four or five years old. So it's a very unique way to grow up. Like, for me, it was all I knew. but we used to have there would be schools that would visit the temple as part of their religious education

you know i think some people might not know in the uk religious education is compulsory in school so you go out to places of worship and see how you know how other people live so we'd have these kids looking through the window like pressing their nose against the window looking at us and we'd be like we're not we're not zoo animals but they were curious and and we also didn't know what their school experience was like. But yeah, for me, it was normal. And I didn't realize when I went out to, you know, a more kind of conventional school that most kids don't learn, you know, songs in ancient Sanskrit when they're young

and talk about death and reincarnation from a young age and the soul and things like that. You know, it kind of makes you a bit weird with other kids. And I also didn't have that much exposure to pop culture, you know, so. But you only realized that when you went to a second year, when I transitioned. Yeah, yeah. You didn't know that until then. I didn't know that, but it was a bit of a rude awakening anyways. Tell me about it.

Yeah, I mean, I was, I was confident in my world, but coming out of my world, I felt extremely vulnerable and shy, you know, sometimes people say, oh, when did you give yourself the name Janavine? And I'm like, no, I was given this name when I was born, you know, and I chose to keep that as my name when I went to regular school. So then anyone who has an unusual name knows the embarrassment of, like, the teacher pausing when they get to your name and the kids all laugh or whatever those kind of things are. Even being vegetarian at that time was quite unusual. I think it's much more common now. I just wanted to disappear.

I didn't want to be comment worthy in any. anyway. And yeah, that was really hard because I was trying to erase. I was trying to erase myself in a way so that no one would have anything to say or make fun of. Because you were coming with a different name, a different culture, different traditions. Yeah. Why do you have white skin? But you say you're Hindu. Your name is weird. Can we just call you something else? Why do you eat that you know it's they're pretty innocuous questions in one sense but kids can everyone knows kids can be really mean as well um i didn't even grow up you know with like i didn't grow up around that many kids so suddenly being in a class of 30 kids it can be quite a sensory overload also

if you're sensitive um and it's just i think it's about also having the confidence as a young person to speak about why did you grow up in this way what are the things that you've believe in, you know, sometimes you don't kind of have that experience till you're a bit older. And, yeah, I just didn't have the words to describe it. So I'd rather become silent. So that was really difficult. I felt like I'd been kicked out of the nest, you know, the baby bird kicked out of the nest. And I couldn't get back to the nest because you change through those difficult experiences.

You're no longer, I remember I did wear a school uniform. at the temple school, but it was a different kind of school uniform when I went to the other schools. And I remember my parents were saying, oh, why don't you come, you know, that there's a worship service at the temple every morning. And they were saying, why don't we go before school? You can go in the temple. And I was like, well, I'll have to wear my uniform. And they were like, that's okay. You can just come in your uniform and come for, you know, 10 minutes. Then we'll go to school. And I was like, I can't. And they said, why can't you? And I was trying to describe it, but I was trying to say that when I put that uniform on,

I have to become someone else. It's almost like I felt like I would implode or something if I tried to be that person at the temple. It was just like two different masks I had to wear or characters, roles that I was playing. So learning how to integrate and just be yourself in all environments, that was a real journey. going back into the world of work was a culture shock and it was very very different it was almost easier to go into the monastery than it was to get out because getting out felt like wait a minute I've been practicing all these things for three years and now I have to go to a wine and pizza tasting networking event and I don't drink and there's certain things that don't eat anymore and

things like that and just having to adjust and so it's it's embarrassing it's it's yeah it's hard And I did that as an adult. So to me, it was hard, but it was so much easier. It was somewhat easier. Yeah. But to do that as a teenager is like, you know, is super harsh. What did it, what actually helped to integrate? Well, how did you integrate these two seemingly opposite lives that seemed to contradict themselves?

What did you do to integrate? What did that look like? Yeah. I think in my school, the school school years, like, you know, till 18 or so, I. I just really struggled. It kind of felt like a dark tunnel those years because not that every day was dark, but I just didn't feel like I could find that confidence and that self-assurance to feel, yeah, grounded in who I am.

And I kind of went back and forth in and out of, you know, I'd go to a regular school for a year and then I would actually, I mean, several times I kind of made myself sick actually. with anxiety. I started developing stomach issues and I get headaches every single day. I wouldn't eat at school. I wouldn't, you know, I'd just save my lunch and eat it on the bus on the way home. Just like all these behaviors that were not, I don't know why I was doing those things. So then I'd tell my parents, okay, I want to do like homeschooling for a while and I do that. But then, you know, I could tell myself that I have, it's not like I'm like super academic, but I need to be stretched a bit. Like when you're in that comfort zone of home or you're just with friends or

your parents telling you to do things, you don't always push yourself. So I would kind of yearn for that environment again and go back into it and then feel like, oh, I don't think I can do this. And I think things really changed when I started to feel like I could take agency. for myself and start to have a bit more confidence in choosing the direction of my education, which I think maybe for many people comes around university and you're kind of starting to hone in on what you want to do. But I was going to say, you were saying, you know, when you were 11, what did you want to do with your life? And I remember sitting on the school bus and writing, I remember like three long lists on the page and they were just all these different artistic things.

and I would keep going back to the list and every time I would learn something more about each of those creative careers I might cross one off and it was like a florist and special effects makeup artist and my dad would sometimes take me to like do work shadowing with different people

just to try and see what it was all about but yeah I had no idea where my journey would do you ever narrow down to one or no no that's so funny I was still working on that. Was it hard to go from secondary school or high school to college, like to university? Was that hard, that transition? Or was university not that hard? That was easier.

That was easier because by that time I think I'd develop some confidence. I did my A levels very unconventionally through evening classes, which I was with older people that I found easier to be around because I don't know. I just think I'd also grown up around a lot of older people. and I found I did really well studying independently a lot. And so I think that gave me a lot of confidence, like choosing how I was going to study. You know, then I finished the A-levels in a year instead of two years.

It's like a different way of approaching it. And then I started to feel like, okay, you know, I just, yeah, felt different in myself. I mean, you grow up. So I think university college also people are a lot more open-minded, I found. you start realizing that it can be cool to be different rather than just something to be made fun of. Samihante, it's Anna Ortiz. And I'm Mark and Delicado.

You might know us as Hilda and Justin. From Ugly Betty. We played mother and son on the show, but in real life, we're best friends. And I'm all grown up now. Welcome to our new podcast. Thank you, Bethy! Yay!

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First time gifts are matched, doubling your impact. Our goal is $1 million by year's end enough to lift $700. families out of poverty. Join us at give directly.org forward slash on purpose. Did you have any wisdom from the spiritual traditional community that you carried through with you that helped you through those tough times? Or do you feel it was you were trying to keep it out so much that it didn't really even have a chance? Like I've really felt that when I went back into the world of work, the thing that I held on to the most that really changed my life, I genuinely mean it, was the verse that says, when you protect your purpose, your purpose protects you. And I'm translating Dharma as purpose in that regard. The original is when you protect your Dharma, your Dharma protects you. And when I heard that verse, that was just profound to me. And I started to want to protect.

what I believed my Dharma was, rather than neglect it and reject it to move toward what the world was trying to get me to focus on. And that acted as a real compass for me when I was feeling unsure. Was there anything for you? I'm just intrigued. Or was it so, like, you were like, this is so alien, I have to keep it separate, that you were just trying to avoid it? That's such a great question.

I don't think I've thought about it in that way before. I don't remember actually taking strength from the spiritual tradition. like independently. I think my parents would try to help me with that. And I know for sure, I think on an emotional level, my mom was trying to care for me in every way possible. I mean, I really gave my parents a hard time. I'm also the eldest,

so I was the first of the children to go out to school. What do you mean you gave them a hard time? I would cry every day. I would beg not to go to school. I think they were just, you know, parents are just trying to do the best for you. They wanted me to have operative. They wanted me to grow intellectually, to, you know, to do well in studies and everything.

And I think they were really confused about like, how can we make her be happy and just embrace this with confidence and not just be kind of, yeah, stressed and anxious all the time. So, yeah, I feel, I feel really sorry for, you know, putting them through that. but they were definitely really trying to help also from a spiritual perspective always in simple and digestible ways but I think yeah it was it was difficult for me to really integrate that at the time did you so many kids who grew up in religious and spiritual communities end up leaving yeah did you ever consider it not at the time not at the time and people would always ask me that and I would it was like a very common question especially from people outside of the tradition, they'd always be like, so did you ever want to just rebel and just leave?

And I would always very confidently say, no, no, I never really had that inclination. One of the reasons I think with that is that my parents have been always very broad-minded, very open to talking about anything. And I would have a lot of conversations, especially with my dad, about any, you know, any theological questions, philosophical things, doubts that would come to my mind. We would always talk about it. and he's very well read, very extensively in many different traditions. So he'll always have some great insight to offer. So I didn't feel that pull, but I think what I didn't know was that doubt and crisis of faith

or looking at your tradition from a different lens, it doesn't necessarily always happen in those formative teen times. Sometimes it can come later on or sometimes comes multiple times through your life. So it's not that I ever felt the strong urge to leave, but I definitely went through some difficult times at a later phase. I think when I really started to, yeah, it's almost like with every step further out into the wider world, it kind of demands of me to go deeper in what I practice and believe because it's being kind of butted up against just these intense currents of. everything that's going on in the world. Yeah, I often think about that because, you know, when Radi and I talk about, like, thinking about having children

or whatever it is and, like, how we want to raise them where they have good spiritual values, but at the same time they have choice. Yeah. And it's always hard because you're kind of like, I always think, I always believe that people who choose what they follow and someone who's grown up in a tradition also gets that opportunity as they get older

to keep choosing. Yeah. And I always feel like when you choose, what you follow it, you're more confident about it. It generally has more power, generally speaking. For sure. But when you're raised in something, you have to choose as you get older because you choose whether this value is still yours. And the interesting thing about that is that also just applies to anyone who grew up in the normal system because you grow up with certain beliefs your parents have. And then at one point you pause and you go, wait, do I even

believe this? Exactly. So your parents might have believed that you should didn't work that hard or you should marry a man who works hard or your parents may have had the belief that you should always do what you love or you should never do what you love. You should do what is safe and is reliable. And I think we all go through our 20s and 30s and have reflection points where we say, well, yeah, my parents believe that, but I didn't. And so it applies to all of life, but obviously very specifically aligns to someone who's grown up in a specific tradition in a specific path. Yeah.

When did music go from being passion, exploration, curiosity to mastery? Because I think this is such an important part. I think I hear a lot of people who say follow your passion. And I think that's okay, you know. But if you're going to turn it into something you do professionally, the passion at one point has to turn in to proficiency and mastery. When did you start to actually master? your art and craft what did that look like i don't identify with the word master in any way um

and i don't mean that in a falsely humble way i just uh yeah i feel like i'm i'm very much scratching the surface but i think that um i think that it happened very organically i started to you know when i was 18 i started to develop more of an independent interest in art in my own tradition and really engage with the manta meditation practice kirtan and also you know i'd been studying the violin since i was about 10 years old and that was always something i did basically in my bedroom and in my room with the teacher i never i never really used my instrument in a public place i did i did one time one day in an orchestra and i got bullied and then i was like i'm not going back um so it was a very like I got to a point and I was like, why am I even learning this instrument? So it was only when I

started playing it at the temple in the Kirtan and trying to improvise, I realized that, you know, aside from just participating in this activity, musically, there's something I can offer, something I can develop and refine. And initially that was my connection through the violin. That was my voice, you know. I was too shy to sing. But I think everything, actually stemmed from there because through the violin, I ended up joining a mantra music group that was forming at the time right as I was finishing my undergraduate degree. And I did not know what I was going to do next. You know, I studied English and creative writing, linguistics. It was like very interesting to me, but I had no idea what to do with it. And this opportunity

came like a month before my graduation to tour all over America and all around the world it ended up being. So I was just, it was a no-brainer. I was like, yeah, I want to do that. And I thought that it would just be, I still felt like, well, I'll have to get a regular job. I didn't know what that was. I actually then, I did get a job as a magazine editor, but I got the job and then right when I was meant to go back and take it. I was doing this touring beforehand. And then I just wrote to them and I said, I'm sorry, I can't. I think I need to keep doing what I'm doing.

It was, yeah, speaking to my soul, I guess. So it's been very organic. I think I have struggled with a lot of doubt along the way because anyone who does anything creative or artistic knows there's no assurance of any kind of ability to maintain yourself, have a livelihood with that activity. and so it's a real act of I think faith and courage to sort of just keep going with it a year upon year and so I was many times constantly questioning myself okay so is now the point when I should get

a quote unquote regular job or something that's more yeah predictable and stable do you think you experience divinity when you sing and make music in a way that you don't access through any other practice? I would say yes, yeah, I do. I think it's an incredibly deep idea that you can access divinity through sound. Sound being so subtle, not requiring any instrument, any tool, just your own voice. And it just requires, requires presence. And it's very esoteric, but I feel like anyone can experience it also. We have ears to hear, you know, a voice to use. And yeah, I remember first starting to become aware of that around, I mean, I had many incredible moments when I was a child. You know,

sometimes people ask me what some of my earliest memories of Kirtan. And there's so many incredible times. There was a festival that would happen every year. We would walk in procession through London to this huge park, Battersea Park, and there would be a festival, many tents there till late at night, and the Kirtan would be going all afternoon into the evening. And I just remember feeling so joyful, so exhausted, but like so filled by that experience. I think I started to really notice that, wow, there's something really special here around 16, 17, 18, and feel like I want to come back to this, you know. How you feel when you, I guess there's so many things you could liken that too, but you just, yeah, you want to keep doing it. What have you found when

people are, because I think singing out loud can feel so nervous for people, because it's this call and response where you're chanting and people are responding back, especially when you're live. What have you seen, like, the transformation people have had where they start off, because you do retreats, et cetera, where they start off really nervous and anxious in the report? And then what have you seen that turn into, even for people who think, like, I can't sing to say my life, or you don't like the sound of your voice or whatever it may be, my singing voice.

I'm very confident speaking, but I've heard you sing. I think you can sing. I think you can sing. Now I know you're lying for sure. Now I've proved that last night when we were talking about that. You were lying. But what, yeah, what is that for you? Like, what have you seen?

I'm intrigued for people, anyone who's listening right now, anyone who's listening right now, I hope you're going to go to Spotify or, you know, Apple and type in John Avey Harrison. And, you know, I'm looking, you've got like 134,000 monthly listeners right now. And if someone was listening to this music, or they were going to come and see you live.

Yeah. And you'd say, hey, everyone sing along with me, which is very common at these events. Yeah. if someone's nervous in the beginning or doesn't quite get it, how have you seen people transform over time through retreats and events? Yeah, I think it's really normal to feel nervous. I think many people or even I would say most people have some level of insecurity about singing out loud.

I think the beautiful thing about it is that you're singing with other people. So you're not even, there's no demand that you even sing really loud. You know, you can sing very quietly, but feeling that togetherness, I mean, we experience, we all can experience that if we go to a concert or, I don't know, football match, everyone's singing the same thing together. It's empowering and it's connecting in a way that few things are of that nature. So I would even say that, you know, some people that lead this type of music are more strident or commanding and like, come on, everyone sing. You know, I think I being a more shy nature, I really empathize and understand how that feels to feel so nervous. So I don't expect people to, you know, push themselves in a way that feels just too uncomfortable.

I always tell people if you want to sing internally, because we have an internal voice as well, you can sing back in your heart. I do that on the plane if I'm stressed. I listen to something and then I sing back with my inner voice. it's incredibly freeing and I've seen people relax and become free in a way that they didn't expect by letting go and letting their voice out, you know, everything that feels uncomfortable initially usually feels you feel a great sense of achievement afterwards as well. Yeah, what do you think people turn to your music for like when you're finding people discovering your music?

Yeah. who are not from the tradition, who aren't familiar with it. What are they, I mean, like, you are Raddy's, I think, number one artist on Spotify rap this year. Yeah, that's being in the house all the time. Like, what do you think people are, yeah, what are people seeking? What have you found? I can say what people tell me, which is I think people say that they find a sense of peace,

a sense of shelter and comfort. A lot of people tell me that they listen to their music. to my music in difficult times, you know, so many people say, yeah, you know, I was studying for exams, my parent was unwell, someone in my family was dying, or, you know, I was getting ready to get married, and then I played your music on my wedding day as I was coming in, these kind of transitional and very meaningful moments in life. A lot of people talk about playing my music first thing in the morning or last thing at night when they want to connect to a place of deep prayer or a sacred space.

Yeah, I think that's what people find. And I'm always blown away by people's stories, you know, because ultimately you as a person or I speak for myself, like, we're so aware of our humanness and our flaws and everything that we bring to, you know, we bring all of it to every endeavor. So it's really incredible for me that I can do something that allows someone to enter into that space where they feel so deeply connected because I know that that's not, it's me because I'm allowing myself to be used in that way, but I know that there's something a lot deeper that's happening. Yeah, every time, I mean, every time I'm in one of your sessions, I'm like just at the back to hold back my tears.

I've seen that. I've seen that. I've seen that. Yeah, trying not to cry. I'm like, It's strange, though, because you can't really explain it. It's so hard to put into words where you just got to be in one. And I've had, like, my team has come to sessions. Obviously, we have friends here who have come to events at our home. And it's amazing how you don't need to know the language. You don't really, you don't even need to know to some degree. I know you always explain what it means.

But even if someone doesn't know what it means, it's so interesting. And sound has that potential. I think, you know, if you look at even music right now, like Latin music is, you know, so global now. You know, you've got Bad Bunny who's Puerto Rican and that style of music is taken over and you've got, and that's what's so beautiful about music in general is that. It's so beyond language and so beyond where you grew up. Yeah, it transmits.

It transmits, yeah. Meaning you really feel it. Yeah, which is so special. And I definitely feel that in, you know, in mantra music in an unexpected way. Yeah. Although I would say, you know, I've started to also experiment with, or not experiment, but part of my creative journey in the last few years has been to write original songs also and incorporate that into, especially when I do concerts.

You know, I kind of distinguish certain settings for certain offerings, I think. You know, there's a lot of times I'll lead meditation sessions with Kirtan in a very traditional sense and it has a very, it can have a very intimate feeling, especially if people are, they know what to do, you know, they're ready, but in a more maybe, I don't know if theatrical setting is the right word to use, but in an auditorium where there may be people who have never done this before, I've started to weave together these traditional chants with sometimes original songs in English because it's not only just a tool for making a connection point for someone else with a language of prayer. But for me also, I found it to be something

that brings a certain vulnerability and personalism to, which I think in some ways growing up, I would have thought that that was taboo because the practice of Kirtan is very much not about you putting yourself there. It's really being a vessel, being a channel to just give this pure sound. But I think that there's some value as well in sharing, yeah, a personal prayer, a personal reflection on just being someone trying to go through life and be connected to truth and faith and beauty. Yeah. If someone was to start with one of your albums, where would you like them to start? Like if someone was like, I want to check this out, I don't really know much about it. Yeah. What would you recommend? I think if someone's curious in

the just mostly the traditional songs and mantras my first album like a river to the sea is a great one but I think a lot of people connect with the album that I did with Willow called rise and then my recent album into the forest I think rise and into the forest are similar in that they incorporate both mantras and and some original lyrics yeah yeah that's great yeah for anyone who's starting out there yeah journey of wanting to you know move into devotional music and have never had the experience of it. Or they should check out Raddy's playlist. So many people tell me, oh, I found your music through Raddy's playlist.

She's got a great collection there of also many other wonderful artists. Yeah, I love that. I love that. What's a misconception you think people have about spiritual people? I think people tend to project a lot onto spiritual people that they're like, you're so divine and you must float around your house all day you know spouting like wisdom quotes and that's exactly what I do I've seen you in your robes yeah yeah I think a misconception is that spiritual people don't have doubts don't have material desires don't make mistakes well all

of all of those things obviously are true or that spiritual people have all the answers. I think to try to pursue a life connected to a spiritual core is courageous because there is a level of faith that's required where there's not always a hard, hard answer. There's very good answers, but you also still have to be very open-hearted and constantly open to learning and surrender, which is a very open. very, very difficult. Yeah, such a great answer. Not what I expected, but yeah, such a great answer.

It's, yeah, everyone's human and everyone's trying and everyone's failing and everyone's making mistakes. And I think the problem is when you think that a spiritual person is perfect, then you don't feel spiritual internally. Yeah. Because you don't feel like you've reached what other people have reached or what you should have reached. Yeah.

And that can actually deter you from the path. Yeah. Because you think, oh, well, I'm not like that. Yeah. And they have it all together. And therefore, I must not be spiritual. Yeah. Not realizing that we all already are inherently.

Yeah. And perfection may be the goal and the aspiration, but the journey towards it is far more incremental and step by step than it is this enlightened day. I think, you know, I think that's a misconception I always think is people who's like, what was the day you've realized? Right. I have not had that.

Loh! You know, the light came down from the club. Again, it's how media has portrayed it, where it feels like you have this day of enlightenment. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I've had really special meditations. I've had really special experiences. Yeah. But it's three steps forward, one step back, two steps pause, three steps forward.

Sometimes ten steps back. Totally. And you're like, what am I doing wrong? And that's what's meant to be. Yeah. Yeah. I do find that, you know, I encountered that the more that I became publicly known for doing manta meditation and devotion sacred music

I would start to encounter more and more people coming to me like with you know shining eyes I could feel and sometimes it's very obvious by the words they say that they they are for want of a better phrase putting me on a pedestal or thinking that there's some kind of perfection you know happening which I know is not true and I think part of that is you know anyone that's kind of facilitating us to go into a spiritual practice or experience we may

you know associate that person with the feeling and the and the real the very real experience that we get but I think yeah I think as you get older especially just accepting both your own being patient with your own flaws I've definitely had to learn to be very patient with myself because yeah I mean we're blessed to have as well you know we're blessed to know so many people who truly are exemplary in their life and their actions and yeah I mean I identify without looking at someone thinking God you know I'm never going to be I'm never going to be spiritual what's something that you used to believe to be true spiritually and now you don't agree with it? I think growing up in a particular spiritual tradition, you can have, you're surrounded by

constant affirmation and validation of that tradition. You know, if you're immersed in a community, you're surrounded by people who believe in that path, in those practices. And I think the more that I've grown and encountered people from all different walks of life who've had all different kinds of experiences, I don't know if it's so much something that I don't believe anymore, but it challenges a lot of things that I've heard, things that I've just accepted because everyone around me was saying, yes, yes. And I really value that. I feel that's necessary.

but it's not always easy because sometimes there's not an easy resolution or answer to, yeah, conflicting worldviews and opinions about things. So that's something that I've encountered a lot on my journey. Sometimes it's even people that are within the same broad category of a religion or a faith tradition, but you know different strands of of specific beliefs there's so much nuance and yeah i think i've found it harder to be like this is the answer yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's uh i agree i think it's a healthy thing and it's also it the brain just doesn't like it for simplicity's sake it's just easier for the brain to have its set of beliefs and move with them even if they're not helpful. And so when you allow yourself to be in a paradox, it's challenging. And that's why we

avoid it. That's where we prefer left or right or black or white or binary thinking. And so I find that in my own self. I try and live it like that. I try and live in the middle of the Venn diagram always, like trying not to be binary. But it's hard because it's so much easier to to pick a place to live and say, yeah, I'm going to go all in and believe this is the truth or I'm going to refute it. And it's like, well, no, there's things that make sense and there's things that don't make sense. I was just saying to someone this morning, I was like, it's funny how we've always talked about how whether the glass is half full or half empty. And I'm like, it's both. Yeah. Like, it's always both. That's just a stupid question. Yeah. Because

Could you see it through? Like, could one eye have one lens and the other have the other? Totally. And it's like, both things that. the same thing. Yeah, and both things are true. If a glass is half full, it is therefore half empty. Yeah. And so therefore, the right answer is, I see both. And if you see both, it means I can fill the glass up. Yeah. And it also means I have more to drink. And so this idea of, do you see the glass is half full or half empty? The answer is both. But it's the brain doesn't want that answer. The brain just wants to choose one or the other. So we either become positive or, you know, evangelists of our beliefs, or we become negative and pessimists of that belief. And we don't

recognize that most things have lots of good in them and lots of things that they could improve and grow. But it's the brain for simplicity's sake prefers one or the other. And sometimes it's hard to feel, you know, it's difficult because you also don't want to be, sometimes you have to choose a specific direction or, you know, there is specificity to the choices we make. And sometimes, you know, for integrity, you need to kind of define things, you know, is it this or is at that. But anyway, it's, yeah, it's very context-based as well, I find. But I don't know, I don't know if it's because of me also trying to connect with that space. But I know a lot of people have told me that, you know, there's so many people who have grown up in religious

environments who have experienced a lot of heavy judgment or trauma even. It seems more common than not sometimes, or at least maybe I just encounter people who speak about that. And I've felt encouraged that people have said when they've come to my events or gatherings that they feel it's a safe space to be in a spiritual space but not have something imposed upon them. And I feel happy about that, you know. I want to try to hold that tension. I don't know if it's tension, but.

But it's like, you know, walking a path of integrity and specificity oneself, but being able to create space that feels very inclusive and welcoming for everyone. Hey, I'm Kelly. And some of you may know me as Laura Winslow. And I'm Telma, also known as Aunt Rachel. If those names ring a bell, then you probably are familiar with a show that we're both on back in the 90s called Family Matters. Kelly and I have done a lot of things and played a lot of roles over the years, but both of us are just so proud to have been part of Family Matters. Did you know that we were one of the longest running sitcoms with a black cast?

When we were making the show, there were so many moments filled the joy and laughter and cut up that I will never forget. Oh, girl, you got that right. The look that you all give me is so black. All black people know about the look. On each episode of Welcome to the Family, we'll share personal reflections about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in part of the cast and some other special guests to join in the fun and spill some tea. Listen to Welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What do you get when you mix 1950s Hollywood, a Cuban musician with a dream, and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time? You get Desi Arnaz, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband, and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break primetime wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story. From plening canary cages to this night here in New York, it's a long ways. On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life. The moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined American television, and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines,

waiting for a face like hours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama. That's part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little bit different, but it all involves music and conversation

with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leveh, Rufus Weimright, Remy Wolf, Mark Rebier, Mavis Staples, really too many in a name. And there's still so much more to come in this new season, including the powerful psychedelic duo Black Pumas, my old pal and longtime songwriting friend, Jesse Harris,

and the legendary Lucinda Williams. Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Has there ever been anything that's really difficult that you've gone through in life, that you feel your faith has been integral to moving through? I don't think there's been a life event, like, you know, some of the huge things that happen or, you know, losing a loved one, things like that, that are often the cause of a, you know, a deep, grief and sorrow that you know it sometimes leads to a spiritual search but I think I have experienced

crisis of faith which required faith to come out of that's good yeah yeah um which yeah took me by surprise you know I think the experience especially if you're used to being someone who who that's something that you do feel sure of and then when it's suddenly not there it can feel like rug is pulled out from under your feet and I felt like I'm not quite sure who I am, you know. You're like, like in a coloring book, you know, you've got the lines and that's like the defined color within the lines. But imagine if the lines just disappeared and you just color. Like, who am I without that?

I have experienced that a couple of times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting answer because, yeah, it's, it's an interesting answer because, yeah, Like how I hosted the variety faith in spirituality on his last week. Yeah. And I was talking about how the people who are being awarded and honored, they've showed different types of faith.

And I was saying it showed having faith, messy faith, losing faith. And that's what makes it so real where I think faith-based content or people sometimes have always been shown as one note where like, this is who you are. We're like, this is the kind of person you should be. Yeah. Gotta believe. Yeah. Yeah.

And now I think we're showing these variegated depictions of what faith can look like and spirituality can look like. And it's just so much more real. Yeah. Relatable. Yeah, relatable. Yeah, relatable and grounded and accessible and, yeah, just truly transparent because that's what it can look like. And I think if anyone is a person of, how did faith help you re-find faith? when there was a crisis of faith?

I think there was a period of time, and it wasn't that long, but because of the disorientation that I felt, it felt a lot longer than it was, I think, of feeling like the faith had just totally evaporated. And, you know, it feels like a type of, it feels like a type of darkness because something that had previously given you a lot of light and internal support,

and nourishment just seems to disappear or no, it seems like vapor that is, was that actually real? And I think, I think faith almost, it felt like it seeped in almost like a, you know, through a pinhole where you get light that just comes through a tiny crack and it gradually grows. But initially there had to be a speck of faith. for me to think that faith could even return in a way. I had to be open to that. And I found through that experience, I connected more to prayer spontaneously and personally versus more ritual type of worship or a set,

you know, practice or routine. more spontaneously, more expressively in English. And it's funny because I grew up completely steeped in prayer like throughout the day because that's just the environment I was in. I was thinking about the soundscape of my life growing up. There was always bells ringing and in my tradition we blow this conch shell.

There's these kind of spiritual sounds around. And ancient, mantras, Sanskrit was a very familiar language for me but what I didn't have confidence and ease with was praying in the language that I speak and actually being that

personal to just be alone and speak those words whatever was coming up and I think that was a really transformative experience and time for me and actually led to some of the songs that I've recorded because eventually I thought

you know you don't always think like that I should record this because it's so personal and specific. But I did feel that I bet there are others who go through these times or who feel these emotions who may, it may enable them to express words that they can't find the words to say. Do you think we all need to talk to God more? 100%. 100%.

Yeah, I was thinking about this ahead of our chat. because I was thinking about how much, you know, in the last, I don't know if it's the last decade, but of course mindfulness is a word that we've heard so much. Meditation has become something that is so in many ways integrated into, you know, it's not that everyone does it, but if you say it, no one's going to probably look at you funny. You might see people doing in an ad or, you know, I always remember walking into, I think it was gap or something, you know, on a high street and there were these mannequins sitting like this in the lotus position. And I was like, oh, interesting.

This is like filtering into just everyday, you know, culture and fashion. But I was thinking about how meditation can bring us into this space of stillness and internal connection. But what am I meditating on? and the difference between just coming to a place of groundedness, stillness, calming the mind and prayer to me is quite distinct. That's my personal take on it. You know, someone may use those terms differently and describe it differently.

But I feel like, yeah, if prayer is not something that you've ever done, or even if it is something that's familiar that you did grow up with, I feel like, you know, sometimes they say, I would just try doing something with your left hand or your non-dominant hand because it will reveal something to you or you'll feel a different way of looking at something and doing something. I think, yeah, it might be something that listeners would like to try, you know, to either approach it for the first time

or approach it through a different pathway. Yeah, I like that. what you've been used to. It's like a new neural pathway almost. Yeah, yeah. Just why not try? Yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes it involves, you know, there's so many different ways that people pray. For some people, it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized way of placing their body in a certain position or doing certain actions. And I think all of those things are designed to bring us into a certain state of mind and of being that allows can allow you to express some of these deepest these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard to access in a natural way yeah absolutely yeah yeah for me like i find i love talking to god when i'm driving i do that i do that's my favorite yeah in one of the hardest

times i experienced that was the time you just reminded me of that i i would just talk yeah driving by myself, cry, speak, sing. I find driving to be so therapeutic and a place to share streams of thoughts. Yeah. And I always love it. I think it also reminds me of that Bruce Almighty scene where he's like asking God for a sign. Yeah.

God keeps sending him loads of signs and keeps ignoring them and then his car goes off the bridge or whatever it is. And I'm like, yeah, I'm always looking around for signs that I'm driving and connecting billboards to God's message to me. And it's just like this fun idea that. That there's some, you know, there's some power in what I'm reading and seeing. So I love that. Last question before the final five.

What's a question you ask yourself when you feel lost? Am I connected with my being of service? Am I actually connected with service in this moment? because you believe that if you're connected to service then you'll have found where you belong yeah I feel like it's a state of being which is is protective because it's protective of the experience of being totally lost because you're you're focusing on giving it's it's hard being embodied human you know it's so easy to feel lost for so many different reasons but when you're thinking about how you can serve someone else whatever that may look like

find that that really helps me. It's such a great answer and I couldn't agree more and I think it's I think it's one of the biggest losses of modern education. Yeah. And modern space where everything to solve you is all about you. Yeah. And not about anyone else. And there's been studies on this too. Like if you have depression and you help people who have depression, your depression goes down. And so even in a really difficult state, the active service can still be helpful to yourself. What to speak of when things are not that bad yeah and yeah it's fascinating to me how we always think oh if i have more then i'll be able to give more but yeah actually wherever you are just now you already may have a little more than someone else and if you can help and support in whatever way time energy money

if that is your way of helping yeah i love that answer such a good answer it's something i've been i've been trying to to say this this prayer every day and it's it's a traditional sanscript prayer I won't say all the words, but it ends with the phrase, das anodas, and that means, you know, servant of the servant. And it's funny when I was growing up. And, you know, this is one of those things that in a religious community, a certain thing becomes a way that people do things, which from the outside can seem a bit weird. So everybody would sign a letter or a message, your servant. And I can't remember when it happened, but maybe we were visiting some relatives or something, but I just saw that through a different lens and I thought, that must sound so funny because the idea of being a servant is not something that we would regard very highly in a sort of like regular world. But it's a really profound spiritual idea that to identify as a servant as like an essential identity keeps you always.

looking for ways to contribute and give. So, yeah, I find that really helps me a lot. Yeah, I think if you, it's really interesting because I think the misconception of that is when we think, oh, that means I have to stay small. Yeah. Or that means I'm going to be exploited. Correct. Correct. And it's almost like there's been the servant leadership movement. Yeah. And even the idea of, oh, you could be the see of a company and see yourself in the service of others. Yeah. Like it's it's not based on your position in society. Yeah. It's based on the mood and intention that you do that act with. So someone could be the coach of the biggest soccer team in the world and see themselves as serving their team. Yeah. And someone can be the best player in the

world and see themselves as serving their team. Or you could be all those things and think you're the best thing in the world and no one else is important. And so it's got nothing to do with your external position. Yeah. And I think the problem we think is, oh my external position has to match that yeah so therefore I want to be small yeah I've got to be small and play small and it doesn't make any sense because yeah I'd like to understand I'd like to to understand and grasp that more deeply because I I think I still struggle with that like you've always you know in our friendship you've always encouraged me to to embrace what I'm doing and be you know unafraid to to I guess grow and broadcast out what I'm doing you know bigger and

bigger as a service, but it's so difficult when you're more visible or more in a position of leadership to continue to kind of, yeah, harmonize that idea that I'm serving, but also have to kind of have the things that go along with being more in a leadership position. I don't know. For me, I find it challenging. Yeah, no, I don't disagree. I think that the more closer you get to your unique service, the less you see it as big and small and the more you see it as just yours. And so there is no, it kind of fades away because it's so clearly what you were meant to do that then you don't see it as big or expansive or small or not. It's just is. And therefore, I find that people who know their purpose and their Dharma are less envious and less

comparative and less all of those things because they just found their thing. Yeah. You know you can't be or do what someone else is doing because you know yourself so well and you feel aligned in what you're doing. I guess I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that now. I think I've finally

accepted myself as doing what I'm doing and this is who I am. It's taken a long time. Yeah, well God in the universe had to nominate you for a Grammy to get you to understand that. I mean, he knows that I need a a big, a big push, you know. Yeah, I love it. Jennifer, this has been so nice getting to know you this way.

Like, I know we've, we've had so many conversations. I mean, whenever you're over at the house and you come over, we'll, like, you know, stay up and talk for hours and hours and hours. You know, I love having these conversations, but I feel I'm so glad I get to share you with the community. And I know you've been on before a few years back now. That was like, 2020. Was it 2020?

Yeah, it was in your old place. Yeah, yeah. So amazing to have you back on. Thank you. And I'm a fan of the podcast. So this is like very. cool for me yeah it's awesome to have you here and uh we end every episode as you know as a fan of the podcast with a final five yes these questions have to be answered in one word to one

sentence maximum wow everyone does one sentence no one okay okay uh so johnny v harrison these are your final five thank you question one uh what is the best advice you've ever heard or received don't be afraid you told you that do you remember i've heard it from many different people but I think my parents, mentors, yeah, and it's there in the Bhagavad Gita. Don't be afraid to have trust and courage and keep walking forward. Yes. Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Anything related to what will other people think.

Definitely, definitely. It's when you say you want to do something and goes, what will they say? What will they? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a good answer. question number three is there a decision you made that didn't make any logical sense but was the right one for you the decision i made to on purpose miss a plain home to get to take up this job as a magazine editor um i've never i'm always like a real rule rule follower and the fact that

i had a flight booked is and that i intentionally missed it and just said, I'm going to drop that. That didn't make any sense at the time. And the next morning when I woke up, I was like, what did I do? But I think I was trying to follow a deeper intuition. And it turned out to lead me to this and many other moments. But it took a long time for me to realize. I had to have confidence in that decision along the way. Yeah. I'm so glad you did that. Question number four, what's something that you used to value, that you don't value anymore? I think I used to put a lot more value on other people's opinions, and that doesn't mean that I don't now, but it's something I've actively worked on because I've realized how damaging it can be to place that much weight and concern on what other people are thinking and saying.

But I don't know if I could have come to that point any earlier. it's part of growing up for sure so yeah it's the biggest one it's a weird one you want to it's almost like you want to choose which opinions you listen to from which people yeah because we all have to listen to some like yeah and you know as we talk about in spirituality there has to be some sense of authority the challenge is when you give everyone an authority of yeah and all of a sudden now you listen to everyone with equal you listen to everyone with equal attention despite their lack of authority or competence or character, give weight when it doesn't have any value. That's what I think is the issue.

We all have to listen to someone, but we give too much weight and value to people who don't know anything about that or us. Yeah, I think I used to do that to the extreme, probably because of also growing up in an environment where you're expected to, you know, respectfully hear from anyone who's older than you or, you know, knows more than you. but yeah it's a work and i'm a work in progress for sure i came up with the system when i think like a monk to make it easier because i struggled with that so much in spiritual circles for sure but in general and it came up with something that i call the four Cs which is character care consistency and competence and so i think about the problem that i have and then i figure out who i'm speaking to based on one of those four so if it's a morality question yeah i have to ask the person of high character

because if I just ask the person who cares about me, they may bend morality in my favor. Or if I am worried about my health, I've got to talk to the person who cares about me, but is also competent. Whereas the person who might have, who might consistently be around me, they may not have the best insight and advice. Or like, for example, if I talk to my mom, she just cares if I've eaten well, but she won't give me the best work advice because she'd prefer I'd take care of myself than do something good for work. And so do they all four have to be there? Or it's different things for different I believe no one has all four. Oh. And there are different things for different decisions. Yeah. And they just care about you. Yeah. So there's advice is skewed, but their opinion is also. One of my favorite quote says, don't take directions from someone who's never been to where you're going.

And we all do that. We all take someone's opinion and they've not even been there. They've never, they've never reached that or achieved that. And we're saying, here taking their word as gospel yeah and so yeah those those four Cs have kind of really helped me that is really helpful yeah it's tough one to to learn because you may have people that are very close to you and you assume that by intimacy by the fact that they know you so deeply that they will have all or at least most of those but yeah it's not necessarily the case yeah like even even my mom like my mom has a very good character she cares about me she's consistent but she's not competent in every area.

She's competent in some areas. There's some things my mom has great insight on, but she's not competent in every area of my life, and therefore it's not, you know. But anyway, all right, fifth and final question. We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

I would love everyone to talk to God more. I feel like a lot of, you know, like a domino effect, a lot of things would shift and I know it sounds like a cliche but to truly have this mood of being in service to others to each other. Imagine if that was like a compulsory thing just to be a citizen of the world. I think it would be a beautiful world. It's a great answer. How do you know if you're talking to God or talking to yourself? You know. It's interesting. intention it's intention you might it might look like you're talking to yourself um but i think you it's yeah it's purely about your intention if you address god i mean if you are familiar with

any spiritual tradition most most will agree that god is everywhere in everything um everything is coming from him her and uh so there's so many different ways to do that and and yeah, you can do it in your own way or you can get guidance on how to do it. But I think if you've if you've not experienced it before, it's just, it's so worth it. And it's not worth, it's not worth missing out on what you may find through that experience to, you know, to kind of leave it aside. Everyone, the album was called Into the Forest. Jannevi Harrison just got nominated for a Grammy. I'm so excited, I'll be at the Grammys next year.

So fingers crossed, hoping. See you in two months. Hoping for the wheel. For any of you don't already, please follow Janovey Harrison on Instagram. You can subscribe to her music on Spotify and listen along to the album she's mentioned today. And Janovee, thank you so much for being such a dear friend for doing this interview and so proud of you, so excited for this really big moment in your amazing career. Thank you.

Just you doing something based on service and devotion and it being recognized at this. level. It's so exciting. Thank you. I want to say thank you to you because you've been such an encouraging friend, but also I think so many of these very meaningful moments in my journey have been somehow connected to you through serving together. I've learned so much and I recognize that a lot of significant growth that I've had has been through your encouragement. I really feel that. So sweet. I really feel that. So I share the Grammy. nomination with you and everyone. I'll add that to my bio. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, it's really a privilege. I'm so grateful to be here. No, you're so kind. And honestly, it's been such a joy.

Like, it's fun looking back at those pictures of the last 20 years. Did you mention Weymouth at the beginning? I did. I did. Yeah, I did. Do you know what the funny thing about that picture is? I'm actually sitting behind a pillar, so you can't even see meat in it. But it's like, yeah, we drove to Weymouth, which I can't remember how far that is from London. I think it was about three hours. hours we stayed the night we did an event it was like 10 people came yeah and like i mean like it's a beautiful event it was a beautiful event but that's the kind of you know it's it's fun talking about these things because it's easy to sit here now and you know you nominate for a Grammy and all the rest of it but it's like no it's like we used to drive three hours and i would do a talk and you would chant and lead

meditations and we would do that for free just wanting to do our service and we do it all the time We did it at universities, we did it, and it was just for free all the time. We did it together, and it's fun looking back, and, you know, we both still do so many things for the community and here and there, but it's just so, yeah, it's fun, it's fun looking back. Yeah, and how to channel and hold on to that same spirit, even though the form, you know, the vessel of it may change, it may have more kind of image of material success, but the intention that, yes, I want to be there and I want to, I want to show up with everything that I can give, how to kind of, yeah, hold on to that.

I know. There was a magic about those times. Yeah. Yeah. I remember doing these meditation sessions at SOAS University. I remember running from the tube station across Russell Square, and it would be like three students would be there, and we'd do that for an hour. But, yeah, this precious times, anytime you get those kind of opportunities, I think.

So, yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. Yay. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr. Daniel Eamon on how to change your life by changing your brain. If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with a healthy brain. You know, I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over a thousand convicted felons

and over 100 murderers, and their brains are very damaged. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyankawali, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dabolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy at 3am? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic.

How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, D.D. Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul philanthropist, and global trailblazer. I could feel inside myself at four or five years old

looking through the screen on the back porch that this is not going to be my life. Listen to the next chapter on the I Heart Radio at Apple Podcasts or wherever you. You get your podcast episodes drop weekly. I'm I Belongoria. And I'm Maite Gomez-Guan, and this week on our podcast, Hungry for History, we talk oysters, plus the Mianbi chief stops by. If you're not an oyster lover, don't even talk to me. Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile.

So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the Ostercon. Listen to Hungry for History on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.