On Purpose with Jay Shetty - JAKE SHANE: “I Was Scared People Would Find Out Who I Am”

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Jay sits down with Jake Shane for a candid conversation about fame, anxiety, OCD, dating, body image, and the pressure of living online. Together, they unpack what it takes to stay grounded when your life is constantly on display and why the hardest relationship to navigate is often the one you have with yourself. We all face moments when comparison, self-doubt, or the opinions of others begin to shape how we see ourselves. This conversation is an invitation to reconnect with who you are beneath the pressure, and to remember that your worth has never depended on perfection or applause. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Visit: https://www.statefarm.com/  Use code PURPOSE10 for 10% ataltrarunning.com/onpurpose. Free Shipping and Free 30-Day Trial. Visit: https://www.altrarunning.com/  On Purpose is now Netflix and Spotify exclusive  http://www.netflix.com/onpurposewithjayshetty  https://open.spotify.com/show/5EqqB52m2bsr4k1Ii7sStc?si=33f7898fb334437c  JAY’S DAILY WISDOM DELIVERED STRAIGHT TO YOUR INBOX Join 900,000+ readers discovering how small daily shifts create big life change with my free newsletter. Subscribe https://news.jayshetty.me/subscribe   Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast  What We Discuss: 00:00:00 Intro 00:01:55 The Habit That Changed My Life 00:02:38 What Should You Actually Journal? 00:03:28 Get Your Thoughts Out of Your Head 00:04:26 Understanding Confession OCD 00:04:50 Creating a Safe Space 00:05:43 What If I Become Unrelatable? 00:07:26 What Would Younger You Think? 00:08:25 Right vs. Wrong 00:09:38 Talking About Private People 00:10:32 Dating as a Gay Man 00:12:24 Transforming Your Body 00:13:15 Making Peace With Your Past 00:15:41 Choosing the Right People Around You 00:17:22 Learning to Be Misunderstood 00:20:24 The Healing Power of Sitting in the Shower 00:22:26 What Weed Really Does to Your Brain 00:23:26 Keep Something Just for You 00:24:52 When People Don't Like You 00:29:00 Internet Drama Isn't Worth It 00:30:33 Don't Profit From Misfortune 00:31:28 The Truth About Cancel Culture 00:32:30 Gossip Stays Private 00:33:03 The Three Rules of Gossip 00:34:50 What Is a Crash Out? 00:35:50 My Three-Month Crash Out 00:37:22 Functioning Through a Crash Out 00:38:58 Facing Your Biggest Fear 00:41:15 When Public Opinion Hurts 00:43:27 Finding Your Spark Again 00:44:29 Does Everyone Know Too Much? 00:48:03 Biggest Dating Red Flags 00:49:37 Living With Constant Criticism 00:51:35 Jake's Dating Rules 00:52:47 The Wild Things We Do for Love 00:53:37 The 72-Hour Rule 00:55:32 Are You Ready for a Relationship? 00:56:29 The Fear of Living Alone 00:57:27 What Makes a Good Friend? 00:59:23 Which One Ruins Your Day More? 01:03:19 Gut Reaction with Jake 01:06:00 Jake on Final Five Episode Resources: YouTube | https://www.youtube.com/@passthatpuss  Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/passthatpuss  TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@octopusslover8    Therapuss | https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/therapuss-with-jake-shane/id1723626781  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If one of these things happened to younger Jake, his whole life would be complete and he would be able to be happy and have it be over. I was so fulfilled while I was on Broadway. And then the second it was over, I'm like, well, what now? Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like, but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon. Jake Shane, welcome to On Purpose.

it is great to finally have you here. And I've been so excited for this because ever since I came on your show, I fell in love with you. And every time I see you at a party or an event, whatever it may be, you were the sweetest, kindest person. So thank you for being here.

Thanks for having me. I've been so excited about this. I'm so happy we finally figured it out and were able to do it. So we've been trying to schedule dinner for a while. Yes. And it's fallen through. You've had crazy travel.

I've had a bit of moving scheduling. And I missed, I think it was your birthday end of last. year, October 27th, so I think it's like your half-birthday right now, if that's even a thing. Oh, my God. It is about to be my half-birthday. And so I wanted to offer you a little gift that I got for you. And so what we did is we actually sponsored a real octopus. Oh, I know this thing. The World Wildlife Fund sent us this. And there is now an octopus in your name. Wait, really? Yeah, genuinely, that is now being cared for and taking care of. Oh, that's amazing. God, I should stop eating them.

Well, that was the hope that this would balance it out. Yeah, yeah. That this would balance it out. But Jake, I wanted to ask you, you are having an incredible moment. It's so fun seeing you everywhere. It's so fun seeing you win. It couldn't happen to a better person. What is this chapter of your life called and why?

It's funny, you ask that I've been journaling so much lately in the, like, just, and I never journal, and I've been journaling. And I feel like I'm kind of, you know that part when you're like in the ocean and it's like the calm before a really big wave. That's kind of what I feel like this is. It feels everyone's like you're doing so much. Everything's happening. Everything's happening. But it feels very tame right now, maybe this week specifically. But I don't know if that's just because I just, when I just got off Broadway, that was like a big whole big thing.

And now it just feels very tame. I don't know what this chapter would be. Okay. Talk to me about all your journaling about. Like, when did you start that? And what's that been like? I started journaling after I had this like time in January where I felt really shitty about myself. And I started journaling like really shitty things.

And then somebody was like, you should journal. I think it was somebody told me that they like to journal to remember things that they would never remember. So like, I saw Jay today and he gave me an octopus. Like just some little things like that Something I wouldn't remember I would remember doing this interview But I might not remember the octopus Or the breath strips

That you have in your bathroom Which is like little things like that That I have just started journaling about And it helps me like kind of like Explain my thoughts out loud In a way Like I'm very good at speaking my thoughts But sometimes journaling helps put them together

That's very helpful for me to hear too Because I like speaking my thoughts too I do a lot of audio journaling Yeah But there is something different about writing it down. I think you're so right that we actually miss. I've become friends with someone recently who like probes me and challenges me. And we'll ask me like, what's the most beautiful thing you saw today?

Yeah. And I'll almost all of a sudden be like, oh crap, I don't even know. And I'm like, wait a minute, I saw lots of beautiful things today. Or I experienced lots of beautiful things today. But because we don't write it down or because we don't share it, like you said, you just forget about it and just disappears. I think I also feel like a journal. I'm everything is going to get exposed or everything is going to come out or everything is going to happen all at once or something something something's going to find out that like I'm not like who I say I am or something and I feel like journaling like writing it down physically is like the one place where I know my thoughts are safe yes like I'm always scared of like my thoughts escaping my head if that makes sense it's like it's like it's like an OCD thing explain explain it's like you feel like you have to that's why I'm so honest it's because I'm I feel like I have to tell everybody every side of who I am or else somebody will find it and use

it against me. Yes, right. Like, writing stuff down in a journal is like the one place that it feels safe. Like, even typing on a laptop, I'm scared that someone's going to take my laptop. Yes. Or like, it's like a very paranoid thing. Yeah, yeah, no, no. But that makes sense, especially in today's world.

And the hard part now is you're trying to say everything, but not everyone has the ability to listen to everything you ever say. And therefore having a safe space where you can truly be honest with yourself. I'm guessing. Yeah. It's huge. Yeah. And it used to be so much easier.

I guess I used to think my podcast was bigger than it was. Because once it went on Netflix and became bigger, people will tell you, like, your opinion it's wrong. And not only is it wrong, it's bad. And like my biggest fear is being like a bad or like bad or doing something wrong. And so like I've been struggling with like saying being everyone's like, oh, you're so relatable, it's like, well, I have trouble being relatable lately because I'm scared of saying the relatable thing is wrong. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do know what you mean.

You're saying that what made you successful was being relatable. Yeah. And now you're worried that saying that thing is the same thing that's going to be scrutinized because the platform's got so much bigger. Is that right? Yeah, people are just like, I don't know. I've had a hard time collecting my thoughts lately. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah. But it is hard because I feel like we're so. so overwhelmed by opinions, feedback, expectations, stats, data, numbers, comments. Like, it's, it is an insane amount of data to hold. Yeah. Like, it's insane.

It's a lot. And it's, it's, I've been spending more time, like, kind of, well, I was about to say, I was spending more time off my phone, but I haven't. So that's just not true. Yeah, I love the honesty. But yeah, you asked what this chapter of my life would be called and, I genuinely don't know. I feel kind of like confused how I got here.

And like kind of confused as to like what's happening. Yeah, yeah. That's fair though. I also started smoking weed again. So there's that. This episode is presented by State Farm. We spend so much energy becoming the best version of ourselves, building better habits, showing up more fully, embracing mindfulness.

But sometimes the most purposeful thing you can do is just handle the thing you've been putting off. If getting your insurance sorted has been living on that list, State Farm is there to help you choose the coverage that's right for you. Go online at StateFarm.com or use the easily accessible app to get help from one of their over 19,000 local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. You just said you just got a Broadway, you know, you're doing a movie, like you've got a TV show coming out. It's like what would, and we're going to start reprograming some of these thoughts, I'm intrigued as to where we can go with this. But like, what is younger Jake feeling about this version of Jake right now?

Whenever I think about that, it's like if one of these things happen to younger Jake, his whole life would be complete and it would be, he would be able to be happy and have it be over, essentially. I was so fulfilled while I was on Broadway and I felt, and then the second it was over, I'm like, well, what now? Oh, you're going from doing a show every single night of the world. week to doing then nothing. When you're doing a live show, it's almost like unanimous validation.

Like, everyone's there because they love you and they see you. But when you're putting something out online, you're kind of like opening it up to people being like, I don't like this. I think that was kind of hard for me. I always felt that way after I got off tour, after I got off Broadway, that's been difficult. You're not trying to be right, even in what you say. you're just literally giving musings and reflections. And it's almost like, I don't know how you can be wrong.

It was never that I was trying to be right until somebody was like, wait, you're wrong. And then I was like, wait, I can be wrong. That's what I mean. Like, I just see you as someone who's like giving your opinion, being vulnerable, sharing. Like, I'm like, where does right and wrong even come into that? I know. And I missed talking about, like, my dating life as well. And I feel like I'm not able to do that anymore.

Like, therapist was always like kind of an outlet for me to, like, talk about stuff like that. but then I would see guys and they'd be like, well, I saw on the show. And I was like, what would they say to you? Like that they would see, that they would know that I was talking about them on the show. Oh, okay. And because it happens in such real time that I'm like, I can't talk about it anymore. And that would upset them because they'd feel exposed, even if you didn't share their name. Even if I don't say anything about them.

Because anyone would feel exposed. I'm like, I don't want to make them. And then I don't want that to prohibit me from, I don't know. I don't know. Had they improved your dating life, not talking about it? on the show? Kind of, yeah. A little, yeah. So that's a good thing, man. A little. So something good came out of it. But I miss talking about it. I miss being like

this happened, this happened. Yeah, I don't know. God, that's, yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, like, predicament right there. Yeah. Like, which way do you go? Which, which way is your heart pulling you right now? My heart is saying if the situation is over, you can speak about it as long as there are no identifying figures to who this person may be. Especially if they're private. Right. You know?

And so that's like what my like heart is telling me. Because I want, I think like being gay, it's like, it's a weird experience. It's a weird dating experience. I've always kind of prided myself and being able to like talk about how weird it is. And so I think if my, where my heart is telling me is it the situation is over. I can speak about it as long as no one will ever find out who it is, besides my best friends. Right.

Or you, I can tell you right after. Right after this. Because I can't keep my mouth shut. Yeah. As a straight man, talk to me about what dating is like as a gay man in a way that I would understand it. From my experience, a lot of the gay dating scene is online. And I think that's where a lot of gay men find, like, community is online because they might, might live their life closeted or and search for an outlet and have, and that can be on

hinge or whatever dating app. And so when you're on a dating app, like the first jump is obviously aesthetics and looks. And if you're attracted to this person, of course, there's prompts and you're like, whatever. And the prompts may be charming and whatnot. But it has been for me very visual based. and that's like led to a lot of stuff with like my body or being comfortable and all that. But as, yeah, it's it's been lonely. I would describe it as very lonely. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. That isn't sound fun. It's not fun. It's very lonely. And I know I'm not alone in that experience. Yeah. And I think I would always talk about how I wanted a boyfriend on our podcast and how lonely it was to not have one. And then when people started, when other people online started talking about my looks and how, if I was ugly or whatever, my whole bit was complaining that I didn't have a boyfriend.

I felt like unvalidated and then I felt like I needed to shut up. And then the whole experience is lonely. I didn't make any sense just now. No, no, no. I get what you're saying. I'm like really trying to find my thoughts. And I like that. I appreciate it.

That's probably one of my favorite things to do on this show is to hear someone actually be vulnerable and open and figure things out. Like, if you can articulate how. If you can articulate how you feel perfectly, then you're not really thinking about it anymore. It's a conclusion. Like, you're already kind of there. And so I like that you're trying to find your way. And I'm with you all the way. And then obviously you show us your incredible new physique at Coachella.

I know. And it goes viral and everyone's talking about it. And that feels really good because I've been working for years for a really, really, really long time on my body. And then it feels good to get a little more male validation from that. So I've discovered that I'm like kind of males. Being gay and dating feels like I'm experiencing what straight people experience in high school, but now. Right. That's like kind of, I feel like I'm 10 years late.

Got it. On like what a 16 year old girl would experience. Got it. Understood. That helps. That really helps. And it's people like me too. I mean, I'll just be, I DMJ straight away ago.

I need that workout and that diet now. Well, it's a spray tan and angles, but it was also, it was, I've been working really, really hard. Yeah. We've seen the Allo Gym stories. Yes, yes. What has that experience been like? Like, I think, you know, jokes aside, like, there's a, there's a seriousness. So I was overweight growing up.

I was bullied for being overweight. I also grew up in an area that wasn't Indian, so I was bullied for the color of my skin. I know what that feels like. I then was lucky enough to get fit and healthy, do well at school. You know, I've been with my wife now for 13 years or whatever. And it's like, I worked through all of that. for you, what has this journey been like where you're like, wait a minute, people are saying these things about me. I'm getting into shape because I'm working out for myself anyway, but

now I get validation. It feels good, but I'm the same guy who I was three years ago. Like, talk to me about that. It's so funny. I saw a photo of myself from like two years ago when I was a bigger. And it's almost like, I can't believe, and this is just me being completely honest, like, that I lived life looking like that or feeling that way. Because, like, and I, and I, and I, and I don't mean to sound horrible and saying that. I feel like I'm a lot more, I feel like, if you can tell, I'm like a lot more cautious with what I say nowadays. But, um, it's like both this feeling of like, I feel so attractive and I feel so proud

of my work. And then I get this feeling of like embarrassment that people saw me the way I used to look. Wow. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm like, I get, I'm like, oh my God. Like, I didn't even think about it during posting it. It kind of just like happened. My trainer calls it like the iceberg effect.

Like one day you just kind of start to look different. And it kind of just goes like or whatever, which way. It's been weird. It feels very good to get compliments. And then I'm like, I start to base all my happiness and compliments about how I look. And then I'll have this like fake sense. of confidence that I'll have from all those compliments, and it'll get shattered by like one old video of me where I didn't, I used to be bigger. You know, you talk a lot about imposter syndrome

and that's where you're kind of experiencing now, which is like this, I'm really proud of myself for what I've built and what I'm doing, both career-wise, physically, everything, everything that you're doing. And at the same time, there's this feeling of embarrassment from how you were before or also looking at it as a child and thinking, oh, my God, Josh, little Jake would have been happy before one of these things, but now I'm unfulfilled. Talk to me about how you get anything done when you are so sensitive. Because I think that says a lot about you, because I think that is a universal thing we all experience. We're all more sensitive than we make it out to be.

We're all more affected by negativity than we make it out to be. But some people get stuff done and some people don't. what's the difference in being sensitive and building as much as you have and getting stuff done versus kind of going, I can't get out of bed today. I think it's about the people you surround yourself with. If I was alone every day, would get nothing done. Thank God I have my roommate Brett. Thank God I have my best friends, Peyton and Julia and Alice and my whole team that makes me feel better about everything.

Because if I didn't have them, I wouldn't get anything done. And there's kind of like experiences like doing Broadway where it's like people bought tickets to this, you have to get on stage and you have to do this no matter what people say. I used to look on Reddit all the time. I don't look on Reddit anymore. And then I move from Reddit to Twitter.

I don't look on Twitter anymore. So like there's certain things that you can do to help yourself and it's kind of like ignorance is bliss. If you have that mindset, like you have to like go into it knowing that if something was really, really, really wrong, people will tell you. Like Louise would tell me. Yeah.

So you're almost saying like limit your exposure to all those things that just increase your sensitivity to a point that you just can't be yourself anymore. Which is hard though because a lot of my humor is very self-deprecating and I would take a lot of those things. But it's gotten hard to look at because it's gotten like real specific and real nasty. Really? Like what's been the one that gets to you the most? That I'm like bad-spirited. Wow.

Or like I have like a bad heart or like I'm not a good person. That is the one that always like really, really kills me. Like, because I feel that way about myself all the time. That you are. That I'm a bad person. It's like, I was talking to my therapist about it. It is like a form of OCD. Just feeling like you're dirty and like a bad person and like your thoughts are bad and like everything about you is like, I think that's like kind of like a trail of OCD.

that you see it in people that are very clean and see it in people who have intrusive thoughts. Like it's like those things about being infected. So when I read something about me being a bad person, that really upsets me. And I can read anything about me being bad at my job. That I don't care about. I really, I thought if someone said I was bad at my job, it would hurt me more than it does, but it really doesn't. It's more about who I am as a person that really kills me. By the way, I feel the same way as you do. If someone thinks that I'm like, inherently a bad person. It like hurts me to my core because I can see all of myself. Like I've seen the shadow sides of myself. Yeah. And I've seen the good sides of myself. And it's almost

easier if you never thought there was anything bad about you because then you wouldn't even believe it. Right. But I want to be able to see what I need to work on. And I want to be able to see the parts of myself I need to improve. But it gets to like a really dangerous murky place when everyone who doesn't know you and has never met you thinks you might be a bad person. Right. And And they're like, God, what do you do with that? The thing that I remind myself is that, like, my friends wouldn't be my friends if I was a bad person, because my friends are good people. That's the one thing that I'll always remind myself is, like, well, I've had the same friends for almost 10 years now. And they would tell me if something shifted in me.

I don't need Twitter to tell me if something shifted in me because Brett would tell me. Yeah, I love that. I think the idea that the people that know you most deeply, most intimately, who've actually seen you when you're hungry, stress, tired. they're the ones who can actually tell you where you're at. Yeah. And someone who's only seen one clip of you or one video of you doesn't really have a have a picture of who you are in life. And that's a great one.

And I love the people around you. I mean, Peyton obviously is one of my, I have to give a shout out to Peyton. We have to. Peyton loves Jay more than life itself. I have to give a shot. I love you too, Peyton. Yeah, Peyton is the best.

Yeah, she's awesome. And like, everyone that you're surrounded by, like, I've loved meeting the people you're around as well. And it was evident when I came on the show, And for anyone who's wondering, Jake is not a bad dude. So just throwing it out there. Like whether I see you at a party, an event, whether we're texting, whatever it is, like you're always the same.

You're always the kindness and the sweetest. And you're a good person. You're a good guy. Thank you. For whatever it's worth. I did need to hear that. So thank you. I'm throwing it out there.

Thank you. As you said, you share so much of your life online. You're having to be a bit more careful, especially in the dating area. What's something that you think you're discovering about yourself that you haven't yet fully talked about publicly, like things that are new things that are coming up where you're like, oh, I kind of just discovered this last weekend and I want people to know about it. Or I'm learning this new thing about myself that people might be surprised to know. I love sitting in the shower.

Sitting in the shower. Yeah, and laying down in the shower. So what, do you take like a stool? No, I just sit on the ground. So how long will you sit in the shower for? 30 minutes. Wow. And what do you do?

Just listening to music. Okay. I think what I discovered lately about myself is that writing stuff down, is so fun because nobody can get that, get to it besides you. There's no computer bug that can get inside your computer and get what you're writing. Like that is on paper. Like that is for you. Like those are your journal is really like your brain.

Like unless somebody came into your room and took your journal out and started reading it, which feels way more invasive than like a computer bug. Yeah, yeah. Because I feel like as a society we're accustomed to people like hacking other people. And that's always like a fear that I've had in, which I know is an OCD thing. But journaling, I've really, really been journaling a lot lately. And I've discovered that that's really, really good for me. And that weed probably isn't.

This seems to be like a running trend right now. This discovery that weed is not good for you. Yeah. And I've also discovered that when I'm feeling confident about myself, my body is shaved. I like groom myself properly. Like I take care of myself. and when I'm not, it's like not. And I feel gross.

And how's that connected to weed? Because when I'm smoking more, I feel gross more often. Right. I got my brain scanned by Dr. Daniel Ayman. I don't know if you ever done that. I've heard of him. I want to do it. My friend's done it.

You should definitely go and do it because I think he'll be able to talk to you about at least what weed's doing to your brain. I know. And then you'll be able to see the difference. Then that visual kind of like sticks in your head because you're like, oh, wow, like that's what's going on. Well, when we talked, I think I was sober from weed.

I don't think I was smoking. at the time. Oh, interesting. What took you back to it? I wanted to look cool in front of this person, and so I started smoking again, and it just slowly but surely, it was like, but it makes me so creative. Yeah. I make my, like, funniest, I get really, I get, there's like 20 minutes of, like, like, where, like, no one can tell me shit. And, like, I am the funniest person in the world to myself. Yeah. And I'm almost brought back to, like, the days of, like, where I was first posting on the internet and like that type of humor that I elicited. And that's like kind of what I love about smoking weed. But then there's the 20 minutes after that where I feel like shit. Yeah. Is that

where all the dance videos are coming back and everything? Yeah. I'm always high when I'm dancing. I'm always high. That's so good. And yeah, I mean, that's like a, that's a great conversation to have with someone like Dr. Daniel Lehman actually, I feel like because he's like, he knows, he knows the benefits of the creativity, but they know everything else that you're feeling. And it's a fascinating thing. I want to go back to the journal thing because I think what you're saying is I feel like as your life gets more public, your private life becomes more important. And I always say to people, I'm always like, my private life's better than my public life. So if someone thinks my public life is good, which I think it looks good. I'm like, my private life is way better. And I keep it to myself because

you almost need, it's a weird one because you're like, I've built my whole career on sharing everything and that's what's been so cool. But it's almost like there is a beauty in having something that's just yours. And that's what your journal represents. Yeah. And I always kind of had this, like, false dream of, like, celebrity and what that meant. And I always thought it was cool when someone was so wanted to know about your private life. And I think I'm coming into realizing that it's not this glamorous thing that I've built up in my head for people to, like, speculate on your private life in the... Like I always grew up thinking that it was like so cool, like all these like women, people would be like, who are they dating? What's going on with them? And I always thought it would make me feel more attractive almost if people like wondered about who I was dating. But then if someone wonders about who I'm dating and they think that I'm too ugly for that person, then that like, you know, I didn't think about the downside. I don't know if I'm making sense. That is making so much sense. But what's so fascinating about it is that when you're consuming.

that content. Like if someone's, if someone's on Instagram and they see, oh, so-and-so is dating or whatever, like, oh, is this person good-looking enough for this person, whatever it is, right? If someone sees that, we all love that, right? Like, we will get addicted to it. We're talking about it with our friends. We're like, can you believe so-and-so together now? Like, whatever. But when you're going through it, it's the worst experience in the world. I've coached so many of my clients through public divorces or moments or whatever it may be. And I will say it right now, like those people, no matter how rich they are, no matter how famous they are, no matter how successful they are, having your divorce or breakup happen publicly is not easy and not fun in any way. And it doesn't matter how

much money you have. So what I'm hearing is, I agree with you. I think when you hear about people, you're, oh, they're so desirable. They're so, you know, mysterious. Yeah. And that's so cool. And then when you're the mysterious, desirable one. And I don't think I've ever really been that, but I've had moments where maybe hopefully felt like that. And then, but I immediately feel the downside. And I think, and I've always struggled with this, is I want everyone to like me. Always, I can't take when someone doesn't like me. It was always hard for me to not have people like me in my personal life. But then when that's your job as well, and people don't like you, and you kind of just have to, like, keep it moving. And you can't like, when I grew up,

if someone didn't like me, I would try to handle why they didn't like me. But when you're a public figure and you're putting out a show, if someone doesn't like you, you can't address every single person that doesn't like you. Of course. You have to just keep it moving. Yeah. I think that's what I've been trying to, I've been struggling with. Yeah.

I remember that when, when I feel like I first came into more notoriety or people being aware of who I was and I wanted to like sit every person down. Yeah. Who didn't like me and I wish I could like set a day where I just sat with each person one on one and like held their hands and looked into their eyes and was like, let's talk. Right. Because I want to, but you can't do that. No.

to millions of people on the internet. And now I've just realized it's all mathematics. I always say to people, it's all just math. It's like if you get, you know, a million views, there'll be 10,000 people in the world who don't like you. If you get a billion views, you'll have a million people in the world who don't like you. And if you get 100 billion views,

you'll have 100 million people who don't like you. Like, it's just math. Right. Right. It's not complicated. It's almost like just about the volume and scale that you operate at. And it's natural. And that's the hard truth about it,

where it's like, it just gets bigger the more big you get. Whereas we think, oh, the bigger you get, the more loved you are. And it is, that's true. You are more loved. But there's a proportionate amount of people that are now just not fans of yours. I think it makes the love harder to believe, though. Like if someone used to come up to me and compliment something I did, I would say thank you.

And now sometimes I find myself saying, like, really? Like you, like, not to be like, pick me, but I'm like, oh, you really liked that when I said that. Like, you really enjoyed that. and they're like, yeah, and it's like because I read something negative about it, like it makes it harder to believe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I personally think, and obviously you're talking to your therapist about this, which is amazing, but I honestly think that's because of our inability to properly receive

good feedback and comments and compliments. It's like we don't have the presence to be really slow and thoughtful when we read a positive comment. We don't really drink it. We don't really take it in. Whereas if someone reads a negative comment, we will analyze every word in it and read it backwards and three times over

and send it to a friend. And it becomes this big conversation. I always say to people that you remember the bad times more than the good times because when something bad happens, you cry for a month. And when something good happens, you celebrate for a day.

And we all know what that feels like, right? If you win, you'll have one party. and then tomorrow you get back to work. Yeah. But if you go through a breakup, you will cry for three months and that will stay with you. And so we just deal with negativity

with so much more depth than positivity. But do you get involved in internet drama? I never get involved. Because I think it's a cheap shot to get involved. I think it's a very easy way for people to talk about you. I don't need to give my opinion. on anything, I don't need to let you, like, that's not what I'm here for. And if I were,

if I were to be doing it, I'm not shy in saying that I love to gossip, but I don't need to gossip on the internet publicly because it will hurt someone's feelings and it will show my face to more people. And I think that that's a very cheap way to get yourself out there. Does that make sense? That is the best answer I heard on it. Really? Okay. I think it's a cheap show. I think it's a cheap shot. Yeah. It's at the end of the day. I really do. I love that. There's been times where I've been like, I want to talk about this. I want to talk about this. But I'm like, you know what? Like, there is more to me than just gossiping. Gossiping is for when we stop recording and we start talking just us to. Because that's the beauty of gossip. I guess it's the idea of like, I don't

want to be followed for gossip. Right. I want people to be like, I follow him because he's funny and he makes me feel better. Yeah. Not like I get my news from him. And There are places for that. But I just, that's not, that's never been my journey. Yeah, it's not the offering you want to put into the world. And I like that answer because I think it can be tempting when something feels like we know everyone's obsessed about it. I think we now live, we also live in a really interesting time that I discovered was whenever there was something viral about someone happening, whether there is an article, a someone getting canceled, whatever it was. These companies are now sending reports to every podcaster on their network.

and saying do this because it will get clicked. Really? Yeah. Oh, see, I don't know that because I'm independent. So am I. Yeah, so I don't know that. So I discovered this when it was happening to me, but it was like basically what was happening was

every time there was something about someone who was well known that was not great, that company is sending a report saying, do this topic because it will get clicks. And so half the time people are talking about stuff, not even because they care or have an opinion, but because their company or their network or whatever is has told them

that will get clicks. Right. Which is a crazy thing to think about, where it's not even something you're thinking about or care about that much, but you're diving in because you've been told. What do you think about cancel culture? Cancel culture exists to me because when you get likes on a video,

likes on a post, likes on anything, it feels good. There is no rhyme or reason. That chemically feels good. That is like a scientific fact. So regardless of what you are saying is, complimentary about someone or negative about someone. Like, for example, when I was doing my skits, my improv skits, and they were getting a lot of likes, the reason I kept doing them is because it was fun, but it was also doing well.

So if you're making videos negatively about someone else and they're doing well, everyone is going to start making video, like, it's like a virus. You have a lot of people now saying a lot about people that they know very little about. Yeah. That's the fascinating part. Right. is that we're reading into like a tiny paparazzi picture, one second of a conversation, and then drawing these massive conclusions based on people.

But we all do that as humans all the time. Yeah. Do you stay away from that in your personal life, like in your private life? No. I do it. I'm such a gossip. I can't help it. I love gossiping.

It's like my love language. I just don't, I try not to do it publicly. Yeah, yeah. But like if you see me and we start talking and like I start gossiping, It's because I love you. Yeah, got it. Yeah. You did start with me today when you were.

Yeah, I'm like, all right. I'm like, it's because I feel comfortable. It's because I love you and I love to gossip. And I think there's such a beauty to it. And I think, but yeah, I just, I won't ever publicly do it. Let's do a quick rules of gossip. Okay. I'll do a rules of gossip.

What's the manifesto? What are the rules of gossip to make it fun and connecting, but not hurtful and painful? Rule number one is like you can't. If something is happening to somebody you really love, you don't gossip with other people about it. Like, you don't like, like, if something was happening to me that was really, really hurtful and really, really bad, I know Peyton wouldn't go talking about it to someone else. Got it. But if it was someone outside of our group and we were like, if we heard something about something, we would be like, what the fuck is going on? Got it.

Rule number one. That's rule number one is protect those that you love. Yes. Okay. Good rule. It's like, you know, protect the family. Yeah. And I would say rule number two is like, have fun.

As long as no one's listening, just have fun. Gossip is fun. Sharing information is fun. What if it gets back to them? Yeah, it's happened to me. Many a time. No way. Yes, many, many, many times.

What do you do in that position? You say sorry? Oh, you do? Okay. Yeah, you just say, I'm sorry. Do they reach out first or do you reach out? No. I'll just be like, fuck.

Okay, I'm sorry. So you'll message them and say, I'm sorry. Well, it's never really gotten to that. Usually I get confronted. I'm an easy person to confront. Like, I'm not very intimidating. But I'm never, like, really ragging on. Like, I'm normally just, like, sharing information.

Yeah. I don't know. And the third rule of gossip is the one you've been talking about, which is, like, only gossip offline, not online. Yeah. That I really think is important. Yeah. Got it.

Yeah. Got it. Do you and pay any other gossip about me? Never. Well, we only say positive things, how much we miss you. I told her I was coming here today. She's, like, tell him I love him. Oh, she's a sweet.

Yeah, she's the best. I love her. Oh, you have to do this for me now, for my audience. Define a crash out. It literally feels like a painting is melting. Like your world is like crumbling. Like, it feels like everything is falling apart and you're just like free falling. Wow, that's good.

The painting melting is brilliant. So, like, I crash out over this guy. During my crash out, I reached back out to him and saw him again, even though I knew it wasn't going to be good for me. And that's because any decision you make in a crash out kind of goes. And it's fun to crash out when your best friend is also crashing out. So Peyton and I will often sync up with our crash outs. So I'll be like, should I just do this? And she's like, yes, should I just do this?

I'm like, yes, even though we both know it's bad. Like there's this like rush. There's a rush to a crash out. I really think there's a rush to it. And are you trying to get out of it as quickly as you're in it? You can't really see a way out. When you're in a depth of a crashout, when you're in like the real, darkness depths of a crash out like there's no way out what's the longest crash out you've ever had

probably over the sky so from january to uh end of my i think i'm still good or beginning of april wow yeah i thought you were going to say like three hours no you just said three months yeah three months yeah it's like a fact like this one guy affected like every decision i made what what was it about this one guy i don't know i really don't know what it was and like I knew I shouldn't have gone back and I went back. And the same exact thing happened as the first time. It just took longer. Never go back.

I know. But I really was like, basically, we went on a date and it didn't end up working out. And then I reached back out like a few months later or a month later, just like throwing it out there. And he came back with like flirty. So we started hanging out again. But then the same thing happened after our, that happened after our first date after like two months. So it was like, do you know what I mean? And it was like, this was all because of a crash out.

And did you feel more mad at yourself or did you feel more mad at him or is it crash out a bit of both? In the moment when he was like, I don't think this is working out. I was like, okay. Like, I was right the first time. Yeah. And he was right the first time. No one was wrong. It was just like that's like this was, if someone,

shows you who they are, what they deem a situation to be, like, believe them. And then does the crash out affect everything else in your life for those four months? Those that are closest to me will tell you, yes. So how do you go to work? How do you do the show? How do you go on stage when you're having a crash out? You need someone to just be like, well, on stage, you're like, these people paid to see you. Okay, so that, yeah, that commitment. Luckily for me, they also pay to see me crash out. So, like, I can get on stage and be like, I'm crashing the fuck out. right now, like, I'm not okay.

And that, for me, for them, is equally as entertaining as me not crashing out. Got it. So it's almost like I can crash out on the job because it makes it more entertaining and more funny. Yeah. But then there's moments where I'm like, wait, no, I really don't feel good. And I really can't do this right now. Yeah.

Like, after the Vanity Fair thing, I didn't want to talk about that. I didn't want to talk about it. I didn't want, I couldn't, like, make a joke out of it yet. And that was a really hard week for me. Because I was like, I can't crash out about this publicly. Normally, everything I can be like, I'm crashing out over this, that, and the third. I couldn't crash out about that. Because so many people were yelling at me or that's what it felt like to me.

Like something like that is hard. Like, I can't crash out. And that's, I think, the moment where things kind of shifted for me, where it being public became less fun. We were texting at that time. Yeah, I was not okay. Yeah, you texted me. I remember. Yeah, I really appreciate you reaching out.

Yeah. Because I can't imagine that being fun. It was, well, it was just like, it was horrible because it's like, yeah, yeah, it just sucked. And you survived. And I survived. I literally like physically, when you physically survive something you're so scared of, you're so dreading it happening. You knew, like, I talked to you about this. Like, people getting mad at me is my number one fear.

Like, I think my physical reaction to that was that I literally would not physically survive. When you physically, like, actually make it out of something that you're scared of, it, like, teaches your mind almost that, like, it's fine. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. After that week, like, I felt like, oh, like, I'm still, I'm, like, breathing. As dramatic as it sounds, like, I'm, like, breathing.

And I felt like I was holding my breath waiting for this thing to happen. And then it happened. Yeah. And now what? Yeah. You just keep going on. Totally. And what I find really hard about those moments.

And obviously, you know, I'm a fan of yours. I follow you. And it's like I'd watched an interview done around the same time. I think it was just before. It was the Rolling Stone one. Correct. And I'd seen that interview. And I was like, Jake's being really honest.

Like, he knows he's not a journalist. He's not trying to be a journalist. My mom is a journalist. Yeah, he really valid. Like, it was just really interesting because I follow you quite deeply in that sense. Like, I keep up with what you're up to. And I was like, oh, wait, Jake said this thing in the Rolling Stone thing. And the thing that he's getting, you know, targeted for whatever you want to call it,

is that very thing that he's already okay. It's funny how that works. And I'm like, if you just listen, and this is the challenge I see with everything, and I go through this myself, I'm like, if someone actually listened to everything I said, right. I think they'd have a better picture of my genuine emotions about things.

But if you just pick one thing I say or one thing I do, you might get a very different perspective of who I am. And I think the challenge today is who the hell in the world has the time to listen to everything I've said or everything you said. And who cares enough to do that as well? Like, it's too much work. And so it's, yeah, it's rough because I felt like what you were saying in the Rolling Stone interview directly would have made the other side of it.

Right. It was like a direct response. It was like, well, I'm not a journalist. I've never claimed to be. I think it's insulted to say I'm a journalist. I'm not, I'm not inquisitive enough to be a journalist. Yeah, yeah. Unless it's gossip.

I'd be a good gossip journalist. There you go. That's the new title. Yeah. That's the new headline. Yeah. That's a new headline. I feel like the.

The good thing is to survive early in that growth journey because then you start realizing that these things will keep coming and keep happening. And you're going to have to live with it forever. So in one sense, it's kind of like nice to get one under your belt because you don't want to wait too long because I've seen it happen the other way. And I think this used to happen a few years back was that people would literally have like three decade careers where they would never have anyone hate them. And then all of a sudden something massive would happen. Right. years later. And they don't know how to deal with it.

And they don't know how to deal with it because the internet. Correct. It's not just bad press. Like back in the day, traditional media and traditional celebrity, you could get bad press where the press was talking about you poorly. Yeah. But the press is now the people.

So it feels a little more individual and a little more like, I think it feels more personal. It does feel more personal. 100% it feels more personal. Yeah. Because you're seeing one person say something about you. Yeah. It feels really, really personal.

There's this, I remember. Ellen DeGeneres was canceled at something like, I can't remember how show she was at that time, like, 46 for coming out as gay. Like coming out in America as gay was like cancelable. Really? Yeah. I remember there's this clip that people can watch of the Oprah show where people are literally standing up on the Oprah show saying, how can you be friends with Ellen because she's gay. Really? Yeah.

It's unbelievable. And you'll see Oprah say like, well, you know, I appreciate her. I like it, whatever it is. And I'm like, that is bizarre to me to think about. You watch that and you go, oh my gosh, like, you know, what a crazy thing to go through. Yeah. And now it's almost like, yeah, it's what you just said. It feels so much more personal.

It feels so much more urgent as well. And it's rough. And I don't think anyone has the magic pill or the answer to how to deal with it. Right. Because you've got to keep moving on. Yeah. You've got to keep getting on with it. Well, I'm glad you're here.

I'm glad you survived. I'm glad you kept going on. Thank you. Because you're making a lot of people happy, making a lot of people smile. You're like, you know. I'm trying. I'm really trying. I feel like I've kind of lost my funny lately.

And so I'm like trying to like get it back. What helps you get it back? Watching TV. What have you been watching? Industry. Oh, I've not seen that yet. I keep being told. You got a very you show.

Okay. You would love it. Okay. And I'm so good at when I'm like, and I know I'm good at when I'm imitating things. And I always say like when I'm. binge watching a show and I binge, I go through this period of, like, binging, and then I regurgitate it all out. That's when I'm my funniest. So that, okay, watching TV. Mine's, mine is genuinely, like, I love watching stand-up comics. Like, I don't watch enough of it. I love

watching stand-up comedy. It's one of my favorite things. Like, I'm like, if I can watch a really good stand-up comic that just is dialed in and, you know, really knows how they're working the crowd, it's, you've never done stand-up comedy, right? I did it in seventh grade. Oh, okay. It doesn't really count. But I love when you see someone so, whether it be a comic or athlete or a musician in control of a crowd, it's like equally as crack for you as it is for them, I feel like. Yeah, yeah. It's like the, oh my God, what am I witnessing right now?

Absolutely. Yeah. What's become your, like, biggest red flag in dating for you right now? If someone watches my show. You don't want them to be a fan? It's weird because it's both a red flag and a green flag. It's like, okay, you still pursued me even after seeing me for all that I was. But like internally, I'm so insecure that you've seen it that I now can't date you.

Yeah, yeah. Because I'm so insecure with all that you've seen. I can't hide anything from you. God. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's almost like you don't get in a normal relationship, like if you're not a public figure, you get to reveal information. Yeah.

As you both get to know each other more. Whereas when you're a public figure who's talking about yourself all the time, it almost feels like everyone knows too much about you already. Right. And now you don't even get to reveal that part of yourself. And it doesn't feel like a discovery even for the other person. And it just feels almost like embarrassing. Tell me about that part.

Why is it embarrassing? Because I used to talk about like my sex life a lot or like lack thereof. I'm like, oh my God, if this person seen my show, they know that I haven't had sex in however long. That is so embarrassing. I can't sit here with a straight face. So what do you do now? I go for older men that wouldn't normally watch my show. Right.

And how's that guy? It's fine. Okay. Honestly great. They have great perspectives on life. This episode is brought to you by Ultra. Making space for ourselves matters. Having time and room to try new things.

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and use code purpose 10 for 10% off. That's A-L-T-R-A running.com forward slash on-purpose. Stay out there. Are you generally attracted to older men or is this because they don't listen to your show? I think generally I'm attracted to older guys. Okay, right, right. And then this has made it even more so.

Easier. Okay. Okay. Okay. So that's a green flag right now, being an older man. Being an older guy. He doesn't watch your show. That's a green.

A green flag is like an older guy in their 30s who doesn't watch my show. And then a red flag would be like someone my age who watches my show. Yeah. It's good, though. You're segmenting your, you know, your pool. It's good. Yeah. What's the face, Jay?

Because I know I'm wrong. What do you mean you know you're wrong? I know I'm wrong. I know what I'm saying is incorrect. And like I'm going to wake up and be like, no way, that's not how I feel. But that's how I feel. I think that's my issue. Yeah.

With having my podcast grow as much is because like I think I say things that I feel in the moment. And then like I switch my mind up like that. And then so when people are like, that's wrong, I'm like, wait, that is wrong. I don't even mean that. But in the moment I did. It's not your opinion on anyone else. Yeah.

I don't think that can be wrong. I know. You're allowed to change your mind. I know. And, you know, it's all tongue and cheat too. Like it's like, you know, it's you saying how you feel about what you're attracted to right now and that could change tomorrow. I think that that's a red flag. I'm trying to think of like another red flag that I would agree with tomorrow morning. Because like I feel like I feel like I can go on a date with someone that watches my show and they'll them be wonderful and it be, you know, so I actually don't know if that's fair to say that that's a red flag. I think a red flag would be, I don't know, what was a red flag for you when you were dating?

That's a good question It's been a long time, Jake You're like, you know, ageing me right now I haven't been on a date for I think lying Lying is good Lying is red flag Yes, this is my answer

If you catch somebody in a lie Early on red flag Yeah Immediate red flag Name dropping is my red flag Oh I'm not a huge fan of name dropping I don't I don't need to

Like or if someone's like brand dropping name dropping Event dropping like Oh I was just going at this place with this person. Very good red flag. It doesn't, it doesn't do anything for me.

I'm like, I don't, I'm good. Well, then I think is this date just a name drop for you later on. Yes, yes, yes,

yes. So now I'm thinking about friend dating because I don't go out and date. I'm thinking of like just friends and how I pick people who I hang out with. I don't like that. I don't,

I get turned off if someone's like, if someone only talks about work or money or deals. Me too. Like I just, I find that boring. And like, you know, back to my crash out from the reason I crashed out so hard over this one guy was because he wasn't a name dropper at all. And like, I've realized that the way I need to be loved in a relationship is constant words of affirmation. It's like someone telling me that they are attracted to me because I read people telling me that.

And I, and I'm very insecure already. and I see people saying that I'm ugly all the time. Really? Do you see that a lot? All the time. And so to have the person that I'm intimate with tell me that they are attracted to me and they're not lying to me is like I think what my most important thing. I didn't realize the ugly comment for you was a common thing or a thing at all. Oh, yeah, especially from other gay guys. Wow, I had no idea.

Yeah. God, that must be terrible. Yeah. It's not great, but I am able to use it to like as part of my humor. Just sometimes it gets a little too mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's a little too mean and a little too specific. And that's when you can't laugh.

And that's when I can't laugh. Yeah, well, you showed everyone with the Coachella poster. Right, right. You did, yeah. Yeah. Just putting it out there, you know. I think I think you did. I'm like flirting with you, Jacob.

I know, I know. But I do that part of my... Actually, you know what, it's funny when you bring up the like, like my body, like transforming my body and stuff, people are, a lot of the comments that I've received are people being like, that just doesn't make sense for him. I think I literally just heard Louise laugh. Like, am I not someone that's supposed to be attractive? Do you know what I mean? Like, that's how it feels to me. And then it feels even worse.

Yeah. There's those clips of like, I remember there's a. clip of like Jonah Hill when he'd lost weight and I think he was on a TV show and someone said to him like, oh, you don't look like someone who would smell good. Yeah. And he called it out on the show. Like he literally goes, what do you mean? I just don't think like, you see the like, he just goes straight at it to combat it because obviously it didn't feel good to hear that. He was like, what do you mean by that? Well, it feels like they're saying to me, your face is still ugly, but your body is okay. Yeah. That's what it feels like they're saying to me when they say that. When they say this doesn't

make sense for him. It feels like they're saying the face is still ugly and need some work to do, but the body is getting there. Yeah. So what are you new dating rules? How are you? Go on first dates. Rule number one, go on first dates. Go on first date. And it's so hard. I hate dating. How do you meet people right now? Right now, Raya. It's, it's touch and go. Yeah. Kind of like it's like sometimes it's great. Sometimes it's not. But also leaving the house. Like, I feel like leaving the house and going to a bar. Yeah. When you base all your, like, romantic validation and online dating, it's a black hole.

Yeah. Like, you're never going to, you're never going to feel good about yourself. But when you go to a bar and you get flirted with, like, in nature, like, it fuels you for, like, that next month to, like, lead with confidence. I like that. The fact you're saying you can go out and do that being a public figure, I think that's great advice for people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

get out there, just do it the old way. I mean, yeah, because what else you're going to do? Yeah, yeah. Any others that are working? Anything else that's kind of? No, I mean, I don't think many things are working for me right now. What's the most insane thing you've ever done in dating or the craziest thing you've ever done on a date?

I mean, like, crashing out over a guy I went on one date with and then telling him, I passed the place where we went on our first date to get back in contact with him, even though I was sitting in my hotel room with my friend Cassie. Like that's insane Like I was like I just passed this place Thought of you No I didn't

I was in my hotel room That's a good one No I didn't And by the way Not only was that I planned that From the second that He said that he was not

I thought he got the ick So I thought he got the ick for me And my friend was like If he has the ick from you Just give it a month And then try again So I gave it a month And I was like my plan is

Well my plan was three months I lasted one month and he's probably going to listen to this and be like this kid's insane but it's over now so whatever yeah that was part of the rules the earlier rules we said Jake that's so bad

I know oh red flag for dating if their friends suck oh yeah that's a good one I like that one if their friends suck bad yeah yeah I also don't like people who are not responsive

I have a big issue with that yeah I'm like I need to get a rhythm of communication I'm a bad responder I don't see here's the I think there's like, I think you've got like a 72 hour rule. Yeah.

Like if you respond to someone within 72 hours, I think it's respectful. Yeah. And I'm like, if I'm getting to know someone again, I'm not dating, but if I was getting to know someone as a friend or I'm like, 72 hours is fair. Everyone's busy. Maybe five days I can deal with. Maybe seven days at a max, right? Yeah.

But over seven days to not communicate, I'm like, hmm, this is like. Yeah, I'm thinking about the person that I haven't responded to in seven days now and I'm like, I have to respond to them. I feel like seven days is good and like anything more than seven days. I'm like, there is no, seven days is good for someone you don't really ever want to see it. Right.

Right. Whereas if I want to build a friendship with someone, I'm expecting them to respond within 72 hours. Right. Yeah. So nice that you have a wife and you don't have to think about the romance. No, no,

I don't have to think about romance, but I do think about, like, building relationships or people at work or whatever it may be. I'm definitely, I think you're always building relationships with people. And I'm someone who's just like, likes having friends. Like, I enjoy... You do love it. You love getting to know people.

I enjoy getting to know people. I enjoy getting to know people deeply. I enjoy to actually get to know what's going on in someone's life and heart. Like, I enjoyed that. And I'm always looking forward to... Again, I don't want to do that with a million people. I'm looking forward to doing that with a few people. Yeah. So you're like, you're looking at me with some dubious eyes. No, no. I'm looking at you with like, have I just said a whole bunch of nonsense for this past hour? No, no, no. I'm like, has anything I said, made sense. There's been so much that has made sense. And the insane, the insanity question was, was a, was a really good on. But why do you feel ready to be in a relationship right now or just

to be dating? I think just to be dating. And I've always said I wanted a boyfriend. And every time I get close to it, I'm like, I don't want this. Because? I don't know. I haven't figured it out. I think I, well, I just had someone on my show and they explained to me the different attachment styles of stuff. So I think I'm avoidant. like I look for people that are not there and then if they ever get there with me I'm like wait what like I don't want that

I think I'm too insecure to like share myself entirely with someone I think I'm just like too insecure as a person to like be able to show someone I think that's where journaling's kind of been helpful because I've been able to like I'm sharing it with like this fake object this object

but it's still something else other than my own mind And I think that's what I've always struggled with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. You talk about the importance of friends and being surrounded by the right people. You obviously have a great crew. I feel like you just told me you're going to be living alone for the first time in a long time.

Well, yeah. And I'm really stressed out about it. I've been begging Brett to stay. But her journey is that she is moving in with her incredible lovely boyfriend, and I'm dreading the day it happens. and I don't know what I'm going to do. Waking up to a friend every day

is like the best thing on planet Earth. We wake up every morning, we go downstairs, gossip for 20 minutes, we go about our days, meet back up for lunch, gossip, go about our days, meet back up for dinner. And like, I don't know,

like, it's, you get very complacent. When you live with someone, you get complacent and not having to make plans. It's like, well, Brett will be home or I'll just be with Brett.

And I think it's going to be really, really, really hard for me when she moves out. I don't know what I'm going to do. How do you define a good friend? I think the most classic answer and the most truthful answer is that somebody who has been with you at your worst, like, I think the song Delicate by Taylor Swift is kind of like, applies to romantic relationships, but it also, for me, applies to platonic friendships as well. It's like she talks about like this feeling of like having this new relationship and like her reputation has never been worse.

So this person that she's with right now must really like them for them. And so the people that have been with you at your worst and stuck by you like that's a good. Like a loyalty. I've learned that loyalty is really and truly everything. Sticking by someone even if it's not convenience or sticking by or doing something for someone. because you know it means a lot more to them than it would to, like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm trying not to get too specific, but like, really showing up for people, you know, even if you don't want to.

Yeah. Making things work for someone, even if you don't want to. Yeah. Because they would do it for you. And knowing that they would do it for you, that's a good friend. Yeah. And you're like that too as a friend. I think I've learned how to become like that.

I don't think I was always like that. And I'm totally fine to say that I wasn't always like that. And my best friends would sit here and tell you right now that I wasn't always like that. What changed you? Like life. Just like things happening. And sometimes life forces you to put things into perspective. And you have to choose.

And you have to decide like certain routes to go down. And I've just been faced with situations like in college or high school or middle school. And each situation like I think I've been a better and better and better friend. All right. We have two games that we're going to finish. that we do with all of our guests now. Okay. One's made for you and one's another game that we do.

So this one is called Which One Ruins Your Day More? Oh my God, I love this. So, Jake, which one ruins your day more? Someone texts, we need to talk, or someone just reacts, thumbs up to a long text you sent? We need to talk. Why? Because the thumbs up, I at least know where you stand. If I, it's the uncertainty that kills me.

Yeah. If I know you're upset with you. me and I know that that text that I've sent that you don't like it, fine, so be it. I'll be upset about it, but I'll be way more upset if you say we need to talk and I don't know if it's good or bad. Okay. Because then my brain starts spinning and spinning and spinning. Okay, everyone listening, do not send your friends.

We need to talk. All right. Which one ruins your day more? You wave at someone who wasn't waving at you or you say you too after your services enjoy your meal. You're waving at someone. because the U-2 is like you're being polite. At the end of the day, it's like you're polite. Like you're just trying to be polite.

You're like, oh, you two, and it's like a silly fun moment. Yeah, yeah. Waving at someone that happened to me the other day was the worst thing. Did it actually? Yeah, it was horrible. One time I did it to Jennifer Aniston by accident, and it was like, we were staying at the same hotel and I was wait. I thought she was waving at me. And I was like, it was so awkward.

I like, it was thinking about it makes my skin crawl. Who was she waving at? No, I think I was waving at someone next to her, but obviously she's like, are you waving at me and I'm like, no, like, I don't, and I didn't realize it was her and like it makes my skin crawl. Which one ruins your day more? You get left on red or they send back a five paragraph text. Left on red. It's the uncertainty. It's the worst. Kills me. Kills me. It's the worst. Which one ruins your day more? Being way too overdressed at a party or way too underdressed at a party? So in New York, you would say that

it's better to be overdressed than underdressed. But in L.A., it's cooler to be underdressed. And I feel these days very L.A. through and through. So I would say being overdressed would upset me more. Got it. I agree with you. I'd rather be underdressed, too. Which one ruins your day more? You send a photo of the guy you're talking about to him

or like a post on his Instagram from five years ago. Send a post to him. Or send the photo to him. I think I've actually almost done that before. and that's happened to me in like other situations where I've been talking about somebody and I've sent them a screenshot of like our own text and that ruins my week. That's just like you have there's nothing there. There's no coming back.

You have to be like, sorry. All right. A couple more. Which one ruins today more? The guy you're dating isn't funny or doesn't get your brand of humor. Doesn't get my brand of humor. Yeah, of course. Because if he's not funny, like you can always, I think you can always teach someone how to be, I think

to at least laugh at, it doesn't matter if they're funny, can you laugh at me and what the jokes I'm making? But if you don't think I'm funny, why are we even talking? Totally. Yeah. All right. Last one of these, you accidentally send a mean girl text about someone to that exact person, or you're caught in a blatant, unnecessary lie by someone you actually deeply respect. I think the mean girl text. Sending a text to someone, sending a text to someone that you didn't mean to send it to. Like, they'll kill me for telling this story and I need to double check it with them. But one time, Peyton texted Julia.

I need to go search for Julia's bag so she'll shut the fuck up. And she texted it to Julia while sitting next to Julia. And I just remember, like, it being like, for everyone else the funniest thing, but for them too, like, not funny. So bad. So bad. Not bad. It was slipping.

It was slippers. It was slippers. Really, you couldn't find her slippers. Oh, my God. Oh, well done. You did good. That was really good. All right.

Gut reaction. So I need your quickest reaction. The hill I die on for no reason is. Air conditioner. As like, everyone should have it. Okay, right. Like, everyone should have air conditioner. I don't care how bad it is for the environment.

I don't even, I'm sorry, I don't. You need to have an air conditioner. Like, it is important to condition the temperature of your home properly. Got it. The most embarrassing. thing currently sitting in my notes app is? I thought I was being really poetic. I know my phone with me, but I took notes of my day.

And it was that I was walking home with, like, makeup products in my hand because I was too embarrassed to walk home with the Sephora bag. And I wrote that down. And, like, I looked back at it today, and I was like, what the fuck? Why didn't I want to walk home with a Sephora bag? That's good. That's really good. The most unhinged thought I've had today is? Oh, most unhinged thought I've had today is probably like, should I smoke before this? And I'm so grateful I didn't. You didn't? No. Oh, nice. All right. I was like, I literally was almost like, should I just smoke?

Yeah. And then my therapist was like, you cannot smoke, like, da, like giving me all this attitude about smoking, reading me a quote from Yoda. And I told her, I was like, I don't even watch Star Wars. So I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. There have been people who smoked before. I mean, like, Wiz had his, Wiz Khalifa had his car down there and smoked before he came onto the show. Yeah. But he's able to, like, control himself while high. There are a couple of people I'm trying to remember now,

but Wiz was definitely one of them. The brand I would sell my soul to be the face-off is. Dior. Dior. Yes, you already are. No, my God. Are you kidding? Dior, I would love to be a dude.

I see you wear Dior everywhere. It's my favorite brand. We both love you, Jonathan Anderson. I love Jonathan Anderson. I think it's just everything he does is so brilliant. and I think what he's done with the brand is brilliant. I agree. I went to his first show out in Paris last year, and it was just spectacular.

Was that the one where he debuted the book tote collection? That's correct, yes. It was just, I was so good. Brilliant. It was so good. Amazing, good answer. The celebrity friend you're calling to help you bury a dead body is. Renee Rapp.

Oh, wow. Okay. Renee's been on the show. Renee, Renee Rapp. She is a, that is a ride or talk about a ride or die. Like that girl is a ride or die. Like I'd call her and be like, I am geeking out. I'm tweaking out over this one thing.

She'll be like, it's handled. We're handling it. That's so good. And you trust that she can like, she's like, you know. She's strategic. She protects her family. Nice. Yeah.

Nice. Jake, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum. Okay. Jake Shane, these are final five. First question. What is the best advice you've ever heard or received? You can't create magic twice.

I like that. If something like works once, there's no point in, like, I wanted to go back for Coachella Weekend 2. And I looked at Louise and I was like, just, I don't want to taint my experience because Weekend 1 was so perfect. And it's such a shallow thing to say for that answer. But like, just like you can't create magic twice. Like magic exists because like, you know, it's like, how did this happen? Like you can't create a miracle twice. Yeah.

The impermanence. is what made it special. The fact that you didn't believe you could do it again. That's what made it rare. Absolutely. I love that advice. Never had that on the show. Question number two,

what is the worst advice you ever heard or received? All press is good press. I don't think it's true. I thought it was true, and then my friend looked at me and said, that is not true. It's so painful, right? It's so painful.

I agree. It's the worst. I fully agree. Question number three, what was the highlight of Coachella? The strokes. Besides, like Justin Bieber and stuff. the strokes. I've always been at the same festival that they've been playing at. And my favorite

song of all time, besides the archer by Taylor Swift, is someday by the strokes. And I never got to see it live. And I saw it live. And I was on my best friend Will's shoulders. And it was like the best moment of my entire life. Really? Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. And I have a video of it too. Someone took a video on me. So it was like, you weren't even having to have your camera. I didn't have to have my phone out. I just got to experience it. Yeah. That's beautiful. I love that. Question number four. What are you most excited about this year? Continuing to work on my body and work out and show people like how much work I put into my body. And I'm also really excited about working on my show that I have in development.

That's been so rewarding and so fun. This is a show about your life, right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, it's so fun to make fun of yourself. Yeah, that's so cool. And you feel like you can do it a little more in a scripted set. Yeah, yeah. I'm not acting in mind, but we're working on one as well about my life. And I'm like,

I'm helping produce it and working with the writers and I'm having so much fun with it. Because I want to make fun of myself. Yeah. And there's no better way to do it than in a scripted show. You're at least getting to play yourself, which I'm not going to do. But it's like, I mean, of course I, I literally am like, I imagine I can't make a show about myself and not play myself because I'm so desperate for a role. So I'm like, obviously I have to play myself. Yeah, yeah. It's brilliant. Jake, fifth and final question. We asked us to every guest who's ever been on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? This is my law. Every airplane should have personalized air conditioning instead of central

AC because when it's central, you're like, when is it turning on, da-da-da-da. But when it's personal and you can just twist it on or off, like every plane should have that. Right. And that should be the law. And that they also shouldn't over-scent. I never understood that. What do you mean? You'll be like, we oversold this flight, how? Oh, yeah, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. How is that legal?

How does that work? Yeah, that is. How does that work? What happens in that situation when they do oversaw? They make somebody get off the plane. It's crazy. It's the craziest thing. Has that ever happened to you?

I would never. No. I would never. You'd have to drag me off the plane. If someone was saying, like, we oversold this flight, please, you have to leave. I'd say, over my dead body, am I getting off this plane? So good. I'm not, I pick someone else.

So good. Jake Shane, Jake, you are so much fun. I love getting to chat to you. I hope you got to open up and share where you're at right now. And honestly, I can't wait to see you continue to win, continue to succeed. And most importantly, I'm excited for you to find that fulfillment that you're seeking. And I'm excited to be there right by your side as you discovered those things. Thank you.

And thanks for happy me. This was so awesome. Thank you, Jake. You're awesome. That's fantastic.