On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Jamie Kern Lima ON: Body Shaming in the Beauty Industry and Developing Unstoppable Self-Confidence

Episode Date: May 10, 2021

Jamie Kern Lima (@jamiekernlima) sits down with Jay Shetty to uncover her rags to riches story, how to build your intuition muscles, and how persistence is the key to crushing your self-doubt She’s an entrepreneur and a media personality, and the first female chief executive officer of L'Oréal. Her latest book, Believe It, is written to inspire a new kind of self-belief and confidence in you and your dreams! Achieve success in every area of your life with Jay Shetty’s Genius Community. Join over 10,000 members taking their holistic well-being to the next level today, at https://shetty.cc/OnPurposeGeniusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Neum, I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bond-vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner. Where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party? It doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Munga Shatekler and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us

want to believe. You can find it in major league baseball, international banks, kpop groups, even the White House. But just what I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcasts. When my daughter ran off to hop trains, I was terrified I'd never see her again, so I followed her into the train yard. This is what it sounds like inside the box car. And into the city of the rails, there I found a surprising world so brutal and beautiful that it changed me. But the rails do that to everyone. There is another world out there, and if you want to play with the devil, you're gonna find them there in the rail yard. Undenail Morton, come with me to find out what waits for us and the city of the rails.

Listen to City of the Rails, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Or, cityoftherails.com. And he was like, listen, we love your product. We want to wish you the best of luck, but it's a no. Okay, can you tell me why? He was not three feet from me face to face and he says, do you want me to be honest with you? And I said, yes, please.

And he says, I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you and with your body and your weight. Wow. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now one of my favorite things that every week to listen, learn and grow. Now one of my favorite things that I get to do on this podcast is introduce you to people

that I think have amazing energy, amazing insight and incredible ideas. And not just that, plans of action, strategies, techniques and journeys that when they share them with you, you'll be able to follow in their footsteps, you'll be able to feel inspired, and you'll be able to innovate and start living your passion today. And today's guest is going to help us do all of those things. I've known today's guest for just around a year,

but I have to tell you that in this year, I've been able to experience our energy through personally spending hours with her, like literally hours. I think when we first met, I spent all of 14 hours with her back and forth on a journey we went on. And then across messages, phone calls, and she's extremely personal, has phenomenal insights

for your growth in journey. And today, she's here to talk about her incredible book, Believe It. Our guest today is Jamie Kern, Lima founder of IT Cosmetics. And today we're gonna talk about how to go from being underestimated to being unstoppable. Now for those of you who don't know,

Jamie's the co-founder of IT Cosmetics, a company that she started with a husband in their living room that has become the largest cosmetic companies in the United States. Listen to this worth over $1.2 billion. As the first female CEO, Andalorial, she's an outspoken proponent of female leadership and professional empowerment. And if you don't already know how incredible story you're in for a treat, Jamie, welcome to on purpose. Jay, thank you so much.

I am so excited to be here at such an honor and I can't wait. Thank you. This is so fun because I feel like I remember the journey when we started talking about your book and we started talking about what you accomplished and the incredible journey you've been on. Now, first of all, I think it's important to say, and I really mean this, even though you're a friend, and we live in a world where we're surrounded by people doing amazing things, it is important to say

that what you've done is truly historic. Like, it is historical. We shouldn't underestimate it. We shouldn't just pass it off. We live in a world today where you hear numbers all the time and everyone's like, oh yeah, this company did this and this, what you've done is historic. And I just wanna take a moment to recognize that as your friend, as an interviewer today, and for our audience, because you're about,

everyone who's listening right now, and when you go out and get the book, you'll read about it. You're hearing about a journey of someone who's listening right now, and when you got and get the book, you'll read about it. You're hearing about a journey of someone who was the underdog, someone who didn't have all the possibilities and access in the beginning, but someone today who's having such a big impact on people's lives.

So Jamie, today we're gonna go through the journey in a different order. I wanna start with what I saw the other day, because I really wanna give testament to the book. I saw a video on your Instagram the other day because I really want to give testament to the book. I saw a video on your Instagram the other day where you were unboxing the book with your husband and your daughter. And it was a super emotional moment.

Now you've achieved a lot of things in life. Tell us why the book was so deep and personal and meaningful after everything you've been through. You know, Jay, I watched my daughter open the book and the thing that I felt, my husband started crying and he never cries. And he was crying. You know, I think this is what it comes down to

is you know, when you Google my story, you see, oh, Denny's waitress becomes billion dollar entrepreneur and it seems like such a fairytale. And after years of having somebody with me on Instagram saying, like, oh, did you get lucky? Or, you know, I wish I had connections like you. I kind of realized that if we don't

share the real stories behind the stories, like all the real stuff, and people feel alone in their own rejections, or setbacks, or, you know, self-doubt, or not enoughness and watching my daughter open the book was kind of my proudest moment because this is the first time ever that I've ever just pulled back the curtain and said here's what really

happened and here's you know here's how the first three years of constant rejections happen and here's how I got through them. And here's the things I did wrong, the things I did right. At the end of the day, it's really a story. This book, believe it, is really a story about a girl who went from not believing in herself to believing in herself and not trusting herself to then learning how to get still and hear my own intuition

and make the decision to trust it. and how to go from doubting, I'm enough to knowing I'm enough. And I think that why I got super emotional watching my daughter open it is because I realize, this isn't just my story. It's a story of so many people out there right now on their own journey of learning how to believe in themselves and trust themselves and know they're enough. And so for me, it's the most meaningful work I've ever done in my life, because it's not about me and it's just, I don't know, I'm just, I'm honored. I think

every one of us, and you are a testament to this. Oh my goodness. Every one of us has a story to share that if we're, you know, courageous enough to share, it can really inspire everyone else on their own journey of like stepping into the person they're blinded to be. So yeah, it was a really emotional moment and just proud for my daughter to see that I want her to grow up and not doubt herself the way I did for many, many years and to, you know, learn to believe in herself to you. And I'm just honored to have learned a ton of lessons that I can hopefully share with her

and so many other people. Yeah, I'm glad you're doing that. What I love about this conversation already is everything you're saying is exactly what 99% of our listeners, our community, me a few years ago before I got started. Like this is the emotion that feeling we all had, we doubted ourselves,

we were negative about ourselves, we thought that someone else got lucky, we thought someone else just had it handed to them, and so we judged them, or we had a different perception. But tell me about a time, or their times, when you felt you underestimated yourself. Because I think we've all been underestimated by people. And you put up a quote the other day on Twitter that I loved.

You said, you might be tempted to underestimate me, but let me save you some time. Don't. And I love that. I was laughing when I read that, but I know you. And I've spent time with you. And you speak about in the book times where you underestimated and doubted yourself. Tell us about what that really feels like because I think people forget when they see you today, they're like, oh, she's probably been confident in her whole life. And I know as your friend and someone that you've been vulnerable with, that's not true. And so I'd love, I'd love for you to share a bit about that.

Yeah, so many stories, Jay. And this is something I think too, for anyone listening right now who's struggling with self-down and who knows they're made for more, but still doubt themselves anyway. I think it's a lifelong journey for all of us, right? It's something that even to this day, there'll still be days where maybe a friend I was counting on

didn't show up for me the way I thought they would. And I start, and it hurts my feelings, and then be I go right back down, like, okay, let me get over that. There's so many moments. And I think us learning how to handle those moments and is key to everything. Because I think self-doubt kills more dreams than almost anything else. One big moment that stands out to me, and there's so many that I share in the book, because I really want to share how I navigated things the right way and how I did it the wrong way and everything I've learned. I remember a few years, well, actually, let me tell you a different one. So I knew, ever since I was a little girl as sitting in my living room, I always, I would watch Oprah every single day

and I always thought, oh, you know, one day I'm gonna grow up and I'm gonna interview other people. Like, I wanna share their stories with the world. I knew I was gonna do that my whole life. I just knew and I was finally working in my dream job in my 20s and 30s as a news anchor, telling other people stories and I thought, like, oh, and I started, I went through this big season, the setback where I got a hereditary skin condition called rosation, there's no cure for it, and I would be live anchoring the

news and I would hear my earpiece from the producer. There's something on your face, there's something on your face. You know, can you wipe it off? Can you wipe it off? And they were having my back. Like, they were great, but I knew there wasn't anything I could wipe off. I knew it was that this bright red,

because my skin would get bright red, all bumpy and like sandpaper texture. I knew I couldn't wipe it off. I knew it was the makeup breaking up under the hot lights. And so I went through this season of just trying to find every product out there that, you know, and nothing would work for me. And I thought that I was in the season of setback in my life. And what I later learned is our setbacks are often our setups for something that

we're supposed to do next on our own calling and our own purpose in life. But at the time, I was in the season of self-doubt, where my inner critic was really getting loud and taking over. And there'd be so many times I would be, you know, live on television. And I'd be thinking thoughts like, our viewers change in the channel. Am I going to get fired? And I went through this big season, the self-doubt. And then I had this, you know, moment one day, this really strong gut feeling where I was like, wait a minute, if I can create a product that actually solves my own problems, I bet you there's so many other people out there that like me,

their whole life, they've seen these these beauty commercials on TV and magazines that show perfect skin. They've never seen anyone that looks like them. And I always aspire to look like those ads. They always kind of made me feel like I wasn't enough, deep down inside, but I realize, wait, I've never seen anyone that has a skin challenge. If I can create a product that works for me, I bet it's gonna help so many other people. And, and then I had this wild, crazy God-des-dream.

I was like, what if I just redefined beauty in the whole beauty industry? What if I'm sitting there, right, as a broke news anchor, because you don't get paid much to all and journalists? So I'm sitting there, like if I launch a product that works, what if I put real women every age and shape and size and and and gender identity? Everything, what if I, you know, and I call them beautiful and authentically mean it. And that's how I use this model. And I had this whole big dream. Meanwhile, I'm sitting there knowing nothing about the beauty industry, having no connections, but just had this gut feeling. And when I look back on my journey now, and you know, that was 10 years ago,

when I look back at my journey over everything that's happened, um, I have done so many things wrong, but I think one of the biggest defining moments, and I share all the mistakes in the book too, but one of the biggest defining moments of one of the things I did right was when I would get a strong gut feeling, like I decided to trust myself, and it changed everything. Doesn't mean it was easy. It was a hard journey after that, but it was a moment to Jay where I say, I really thought I was in my dream job,

but I also had this big moment come over me where I realized like, oh, the victory isn't in just not quitting, right? We're always told like, don't quit, don't give up. I feel like the victory is in us knowing when to let go of a dream, right? I think that's as important as knowing when to go after one. And it was this moment where even I thought I was where I was supposed to be.

I all of a sudden felt like I wasn't. And I was supposed to take this next leap. And I decided to trust it and become an entrepreneur. And that was crazy. I love that story. Thank you for sharing that because I think when you think about that, like being on broadcast television, talking to so many people and then to have someone whisper in your ear, there's something in your face.

I mean, like that is, you know, that's scary. Like that's really scary. Tell me about how you even got there because I feel like there's even a layer before that that when you had the confidence to be on TV and that was a dream that you had watching Oprah, tell us about the period even before that. Maybe it was in your teenage years as a young girl. What were the doubts and the underestimations you had in even to get to that stage of being on TV?

Yeah, I think that being a person who is kind, and I think maybe you can relate to this, I think whenever you're kind, people underestimate you just right off the bat. And so that's been something that is important to know, I think your whole life. But I was always underestimated for that, but I also always had this kind of internal knowing. I'm actually curious if you've had this. But you can tell I want to interview other people. That's not happening today.

I'm not letting you. I'm not letting you. I'm not letting you. Okay, one question. Because maybe your listeners can relate to this or maybe even remember this moment. It's not happening today. I'm not letting you. I'm not letting you. OK, one question. Because maybe your listeners can relate to this. Or maybe even remember this moment. But I was nine years old when this happened.

And I remember watching Oprah on television. And Barbara Walters said to her, asked her a question at interview. And Oprah said, I always knew I was destined for greatness her whole life. So she always knew this. And I remember at the time, this made the press everywhere and people started kind of like hating on her for saying this.

I think people weren't used to in particular a woman being so bold to say something like that. But I remember being a nine year old little girl. And even though, you know, and I think we all deal with underestimation, I also remember having this feeling when Oprah said that when Oprah said, I've always known I was destined for greatness. Remember seeing there's a little girl going, me too. Me too. And I would literally see what's possible through her Sharonhone story and her Sharonhone vulnerabilities. And that's a big reason I wrote this book to you. But that's, this will be my,

I'll try to make this my only question for you. Like, because look at everything you are doing, looking at how you are helping to heal humanity through love and look at the millions of people you're impacting. Like have you always had that feeling as well? Yeah, it's a really good question actually, and this is why you were a great interviewer.

I don't think I've ever been asked that question before. So when you were watching Oprah, and I grew up watching Oprah too, but I think the first person that had a big impact on me through their media was M&M. So I grew up as a teenager listening to M&M. And I would not just listen to his music, I would watch his interviews, I would watch his early videos.

And I think I learned so much about resilience and opportunity from his story. And, you know, he had so many famous songs, which would have so many lines about like, you know, taking your shot, taking your opportunity. And so I don't think I ever believed any of what I am able and blessed to do today was possible. I don't think I did because I didn't know anyone who'd done it. I wasn't exposed to the media industry. I don't think I did because I didn't know anyone who'd done it.

I wasn't exposed to the media industry. I wasn't around people like that. But I always knew that I had to try. And so I was very much convinced that I could try and that I had to put myself out there and I had to take opportunities and I had to give things a go. But I never was aware of the result.

I never really believed that the result was mine. I just knew that if I listened to what M&M said, that it might happen because he had this belief set. And so when you ask me that question, I know exactly what you mean. And it's lovely hearing you say that. I think we should celebrate that because we would all want our children to say, oh, mom, dad, I want to go and help people.

I want to go and serve people. You're not celebrating even your work. It's not just celebrating the success of a makeup company. It's like you're celebrating the success of you wanting to help people with a real challenge, with real confidence, with... There's so much depth to that. So your first chapter is called, when your intuition talks to you, believe it,

how do you know you're hearing your intuition? Because I feel that for so many people today, it's got so quiet. And your mainly hearing just noise and your parents and your family, how do you know when you know it? It's like, oh, that's my intuition. How do you know? The therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here, we have the conversations that help black women dig a little deeper into the most

impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children, our friends, and most importantly ourselves. We chat about things like what to do with a friendship ends, how to know when it's time to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of perfectionism. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Take good care. This is what it sounds like inside the box-paw. I'm journalist and I'm Morton in my podcast,

City of the Rails. I plung into the dark world of America's railroads, searching for my daughter Ruby, who ran off to hop train. I'm just like stuck on this train, not now it's where I'm just like stuck on this train, not where I'm going to end up. And I jump. Following my daughter, I found a secret city of unforgettable characters living

outside society off the grid and on the edge. I was in love with a lifestyle and the freedom this community. No one understands who we truly are. The rails made me question everything I knew about motherhood, history, and the thing we call the American Dream. It's the last vestige of American freedom. Everything about it is extreme. You're either going to die, or you can have this incredible rebirth, and really understand who you are. Come with me to find out what waits for us in the city of the rails. Listen to city of the rails on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your

podcast. Or cityoftherails.com. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprobe. incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant. The results don't really matter.

It's the figuring out that matters. Kevin Haw. It's not about us as a generation at this point. It's about us trying our best to create change. Luminous Hamilton. That's for me being taken that moment for yourself each day, being kind to yourself, because I think for a long time I wasn't kind to myself. And many, many more.

If you're attached to knowing, you don't have a capacity to learn. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw, real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon.

Yeah, I'll ask you later if you bleached your hair like Eminem and if you were slimshading and I do that whole phase. I don't know, I don't know how to call him offline. But I love that like was so many in your life that you turned the volume up on and were inspired by it, I think that's huge. So yeah, you know, intuition, when you're intuition

talks to you believe it. I have learned Jay, time and time again. And I believe, by the way, every one of us has an intuition and a knowing. And I believe that our knowing is always right. And I think that to exactly to your point, I think all of the noise of everything around us, of self-doubt, of our inner critic of, you know, our friends and family who love us, but like don't get our dreams or our hopes because they're seeing it through the lens of their own fear or their

own experiences. And all of that can become so loud that it's like this huge barrier almost of self-doubt. It reminds me of like when you're on a flight and you see all these clouds below you, it's like we're walking through life with all these clouds of self-doubt. And sometimes it's so hard to like penetrate through them and hear our own our own gut and our own internal knowing and I think a lot of people have lost touch with it and haven't heard it for a long time. Absolutely. Yeah, but I think it's a lifelong journey and and I think it takes a lot of practice and I also think it takes a lot of grace that we give ourselves right Because a lot of times we'll think, oh, I trusted my gut, but it was wrong. And all these things, like, what do I do?

And I think that it takes literally a lot of practice and it takes building that muscle and getting still and learning to hear your own truth. And I'm sure that, you know, through all of your teachings of meditation, you probably hear from people all the time, like, oh, Jay, I try to meditate, but all I do is go through my to do this to my own head

Or all those things right it takes time and and you have to give yourself grace in it and you know an example of how I started Building this this intuition muscle also is looking back at experiences, right? Like everyone listening right now can probably think of a time that they trusted their guide They trusted themselves and it was right or they can probably think of a time that they trusted their gut, they trusted themselves, and it was right. Or they can probably think of a time when, oh, I had this feeling that this person I was dating was super sketchy, but I didn't listen to that gut feeling, and I was like, I should have.

We all kind of can look back and build this muscle. And a big powerful story that happened to me that I think is a universal story because so many of us go through different variations of someone else telling us we're not enough or someone else telling us we're not the right fit or someone else telling us we're not qualified, right? And sometimes it's ourselves telling ourselves that too,

but there is a moment where after I decided to take this big leap as an entrepreneur and put my job and wrote the business plan on my honeymoon flight to South Africa with my husband, got back and went all in. And I just thought, Jay, I thought, oh, if I can just create a product and it's amazing and it works, it's just gonna sell.

Big goodness, I didn't know how hard it was going to be to be an entrepreneur or I may have such a guest myself. But we poured every penny we had into creating a product and hiring advisory board. And then what I wasn't anticipating was from the moment we launched the brand and from the moment we had a product that I was like, oh, this is life changing. And it works. It would be three years before we could afford to pay ourselves. And all of the beauty retailers that I had put on pedestals, that I love, like I would say my tip money

is a Denny's waitress to buy a Maclipstick or a Lancome Island, go into all the big department stores all over the world. You know, like I loved, I loved it. And so I had always held these amazing retailers on this pedestal. And now I'm sitting there with my own company, thinking like, oh, the product works. They're gonna love it.

And every time I would send my product to all the department stores, the beauty retailers, QVC, everywhere they all said no, unanimously. No, you're not the right fit, your packaging's not nice enough. And this went on and on and on. And about two years into it. And we were staying alive, by the way,

selling about two to three orders a day on our website. And that was it. And about two, a little over two years into the company, I got a phone call from a potential investor. And I was like, and I was so excited because I thought, oh my gosh, and this was a big private equity company that has invested in a bunch of the consumer product companies

that we all buy in grocery stores. And they've invested often in pre-rambony and made in big household names. And I thought, oh gosh, if they invest in it cosmetics, like, A, I'm not gonna go bankrupt and B, they're gonna help, like maybe they'll use their leverage to get me into these stores that keep telling me no. So Jay, I was so excited. I thought this is going to be life changing.

And I, we started doing meetings with them and then entered the diligence phase and they loved our product and, and, and diligence phase meaning like we should have product pipeline and future projections and all the stuff. And it got down to the final meeting and my husband and I flew up for the meeting and I'll never forget this moment because it's literally a moment that's so deeply

when I think about how I built my muscle of intuition. But we were there for the final meeting and I just thought it was going to be life-changing and I was standing there about three feet from the head guy and he was super nice and he was like, listen, we love your product, we want to wish you the best of luck, but it's a no. We're going to pass on investing in cosmetics. And I was like, okay, and I'm so used to hearing no at this point, right? And I'm like, okay, can you tell me why? Because feedbacks usually a gift.

Can you tell me why? And he was not three feet from me, face to face, and he says, do you want me to be honest with you? And I said, yes, please. And he says, I just don't think women will buy a makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. And I remember in this moment, two things, yeah, two things happen. So I remember feeling, like physically feeling this, like, feeling through my body of like a lifetime of

body doubt, just like flooding my body. And I remember looking at him, I literally felt no anger at all. I mean, it's obviously super hurt. I was watching the words come out of his mouth. And literally I had this feeling, like this deep feeling that he's wrong. And I remember this feeling like it was yesterday. It was like literally in the pit of my stomach, like it was like this, this knowing he's wrong. But I also knew I had no proof he's wrong. His words hurt. I went out to the car and cried my eyes out. And I had to do a lot of work to like turn down

the logging on those words, not repeat them over and over for years. But I just felt like he was wrong. And the other thing I thought, Jay, was it's weird. I mean, the one thing too, that when I look at the things I've done right to how to build this billion dollar company, I never took the rejection personally, even when it hurt. And there was hundreds of rejections. But like, in the case of this guy, when you said those words, I realized after I had a moment, you know, to process them, he was just as much impacted by a lifetime

of the beauty industry as I was and to the point where he thought Oh, if you don't look a certain way, I can't make money off you. So his words and in a way were just confirmation of why I needed to keep going because things needed to change and I Share so much more about this, but six years later Six years later, six years later, when Loria acquired the company that I started, my living room, they acquired it for $1.2 billion cash, and it was all over the, they released this right in a press page, which I didn't know they were going to do until the day before.

And that day, it was all over, it was the homepage of the Wall Street Journal everywhere. And I got an email from that investor. And I hadn't heard from MJ in six everywhere. And I got an email from that investor. And I hadn't heard from MJ in six years. And I got an email from him. And he said, congratulations on the L'Oreal deal. I'm so happy for you.

I was wrong. And I learned it would have been the most successful investment in sperm history. And the other thing that I just want to share, because I think this is share, because I think this is powerful, because I think so many people, especially listening to us watching us right now, are coming out of a really hard year and the year of things not making sense. And sometimes, you know, people are just in a season or a moment of rejection or setback.

There's a really famous quote that says rejection is God's protection. And I think supplies to every faith, and a lot of people will replace it and the rejection is the universe's protection. And it's wild. Because when I look back at so many rejections that I've gone through, and I just feel like someone might need to hear that today, right? Because it's like I look back and even when they didn't make sense at the time and even when I thought there's no way this is meant to be

or all those things, like this just hurts or it feels unfair or personal or I look back and it's like, wow, I'm so grateful for the hardship or the setback because years later sometimes, and sometimes it takes years till we see like, oh, I'm in the place I'm supposed to be. I was per, you know, the rejections, God's protection. But in this case, Jay at the time that he said those words to me, I was so desperate. I didn't know how we were going to stay alive as a company.

I would have probably given him the majority of the company for almost no money, right? And because he didn't believe in me and because of that rejection and then and then a lot of others as well on the way and other people that did believe in us for sure. But because that guy didn't believe in me by the time we did tell our business to L'Oreal we were still the largest shareholders. So it's like, wow. I always thank God not just for the open doors but for the closed doors. Absolutely. And just having that trust in it, right? Absolutely. What a, I loved every bit of what you just shared,

because I think that's the reality of it. And, you know, obviously you've only told us about one of the bigger rejections, and the book goes into detail on all of the smaller rejections, the quick rejections. I mean, the idea of that you were patient that you didn't pay yourself for three years. There's so much patience involved. There's so much resilience and adapting and going at it again and you're getting so much negative

feedback from even people of influence. And I think, you know, and I can relate to all of those in my own personal life and my journey. There's so many parallels that I'm like, Oh, I remember exactly the executive that I had a similar run in with. And so what I'm fascinated by though is how much have you found that building something successful? What percentage or what ratio is it? Mindset versus the actual skill of business and product that you're doing?

Like, if you had to divide it, where would someone like you divide it? How much of this was you having to learn packaging, learn sales, learn spreadsheets, learn growth versus how much of this was you being adaptable, being persistent, being resilient and relentless in that pursuit. Tell us a bit about that journey of both of those. Yeah, I mean, gosh, if I had to answer that just right off the fly, I would say 80 or 90 percent mindset. Wow. I really believe, and now in this journey, you know, now having a blessing, I mean, thousands of entrepreneurs and just seeing the ones that make it, and now having the blessing and meeting thousands of entrepreneurs and just seeing the ones that make it and the ones that don't and the ones that build things are

even just human beings and the ones that go after their goals and things like that and step into all of who they are. And versus kind of like stay in their comfort zone and talk themselves out of their own truth, I really believe, I truly believe, where you come from, doesn't determine where you're going. I believe that we all tell ourselves these lies, like, oh, I don't have the right connections, I don't come from the right family, or I am not qualified, I'm not smart, and all those things,

I don't believe that. I think that people that change the world, right? Are actually famous Steve Jobs commercial and it's Jack, oh my gosh, Jack Kirstack, I'm trying to be the last thing that said these words, but it's like the people that are in his words, the people that are crazy enough to believe they can change the world are the ones who do.

It's not the people who are smart enough change the world, it's not the people who are smart enough change the world. It's not the people who are right. And it's like, look at you having and you're brilliant, but having a vision to take, to make wisdom go viral. It's like, you had the guts to go for it. You know what I mean? You had the guts to believe you can. And it's like, there's so many stories I share in this book where, oh my gosh, I was not by any stretch of imagination the most qualified person in the room. And I was not the most experienced in all those things. But so many times, I just made the decision to believe that I could. And sometimes that's what it comes down to you. And I also feel

like I've learned a lot of powerful lessons along the way as well that have become freeing. And I heard you share a quote, you'll know where this is from, you share where it's from too, but that you can't be anything you want, but you can be everything you are. Are you sure that really fast again? Yeah, no, that's it. I talk about it. So good.

Yeah, I talk about it in my book. I talk about how we've been told two lies since we were young. And the two lies are the first one is you can be anything you want. And I do think that's, there's a lie in that because I think you have a unique journey and you're not meant to be anything. And the second lie that we've all been told is you'll be nothing. You won't make it. You're insignificant. You're irrelevant. It won't work. And that's where I say that the you can't be anything

you want, but you can be everything you are because what you are is, and that's your story, what you just said now, the idea that this person said to you, like, oh, people are not going to buy makeup from someone who looks like you, like, that's, I mean, that's one of the worst things I've ever had anyone say. Like, that sounds terrible, but the idea is that you became who you were meant to be. And I think that stops you from the idea of envy and comparison and all of that. But oh, you're going to. That's so huge. That's so huge. And just to add one thing to that, I'm going to get so

far to it right now, because I just know I know someone needs to hear this right now who's going through this because we're in this world of social media where we're like, oh, it's so tempting to compare ourselves or to get distracted or to feel less centered, to see someone else's highlight reel and think we should change who we are. And there's two big things that happened, Jay, in this journey. And one of them was after three years of hearing no, we finally got a yes to get one shot on KVC, right? One shot.

And it came in KVC's alive TV shopping channel. So in the US, they're broadcast to a hundred million homes live. And there's no script and every company from Apple, iPhone to Dyson, vacuum, Vitamix, they all sell their product there. And I had learned, oh, you can sell more product than an hour on QVC, than in a whole year in department stores.

I'm like, oh my gosh. And my whole thing was like, well, if I get this shot, if I can ever get on QEC, let me take this huge risk of, instead of showing models a perfect skin, let me actually prove that I made a product that works for everyone. And I had this vision of what if I just take my makeup off and show my bright red rosation?

What if I put women of all ages and sizes and shapes and skin tones and skin challenges like, and as models and show live how the product works? I had this whole vision, yet for three years, they said no, every time. And by the way, that's another example. My gut kept saying, you're supposed to be on QVC. And for three years, they said no.

And I think when these things happen to us in our life, when we have a gut feeling, but then like, oh, it must have been wrong. If you still feel in your gut, it's right. It's right. And you're supposed to keep going, learning to look back on those moments, I think is how we build our muscle. And, you know, we, so we finally get this yes and this one shot on KBC. And it is, it's's a long story. I go to detail in the book on how it happened and what happened and all that. But, you know, just to share one tiny piece of it, we learned that in this one shot I was going to get

in this 10 minute window in live TV, I would need to sell over 6,000 units of our concealer in this 10 minute window to hit the sales goal or not come back. And we were only doing two to three orders a day on our website. And so we didn't even have enough money to manufacture the product, or not come back. And we were only doing two to three orders in the data website. And so we didn't even have enough money to manufacture the product, get it in there.

So we applied for 22 SBA loans, the 23rd bank, tiny bank in California said yes, just covering the money to get this one order off to QVC. And it was consignment. So what that meant was, in this 10 minute window, right, I get this one shot on national television after three years ago, and if we didn't hit the sales goal, whatever product didn't sell, they would ship back to us, and we wouldn't be paid for it, right, as a consignment deal. And so you really shouldn't take this risk as an entrepreneur, but we were to the point where it was like it was this. Dioniope. I didn't exactly. And so I thought, okay, we have a 10 minute window and I had this whole thought of what

I was going to do. And we use some of the loan money to hire third party consultants that help so many people sell their product on TV and they really, truly do help so many people. And then I was faced with this dilemma though though because what they all told me was, okay Jamie, like if you want to shot at succeeding, which most people fail on KVC after one chance, if you want to shot at succeeding, here's what you need to do. And they told me exactly what to do, which was to cast all models that were in their early 20s, you know, perfect skin.

And I'm like, okay, but that's not why I made this business. And is that why I made this product and you can't fake authenticity. So if I go out there live on TV and I'm like, you know, it'll create a barrier disconnection with me and the customer. So I knew all those things, Jay, yet I was like, oh my gosh, I get one shot.

What do I do? And I couldn't try it both ways. And I flew out to QVC a week early before this one shot on air and they're in Pennsylvania. So they're about 30 minutes left to fill. And I sat in this rental car all alone in the QVC parking lot, which sounds creepy now because I've now been in the parking lot thousands of times. But this was before I ever got a first shot and I sat there in the parking lot staring at the front door. No, like watching people in and out all day for a week's street and I sat there in that car like

praying, crying, feeling like, you know, because I think all of us go through these moments where we believe in our values, but then they get challenged. And I just remember honestly at times being like, well, maybe if I try it their way and then I get success and then I build maybe then I'll try it my way. That's authentic. Like I had all of this stuff. Yes, yes, go ahead. Right. I've self-doubt. Like enter my head, challenge my values. And I'll never forget there was one moment in that car where I just imagined like, okay, if I have one shot, what do I wanna stand for at the end

of the day? And I imagine like who that person was turning on their television. And I don't know why, but I kept imagining like a single mom folding laundry who had like forgotten. Like it was too busy to remember that she mattered and that she's beautiful. And I had this crystal clear moment of intuition

where I just realized like I'd rather, she's gonna bless me with two seconds of her precious time. I'd rather ever look up on her television and see me showing women who looked like her calling them beautiful, meaning it. Like I'd rather have her see that and be reminded of her own beauty and have her not buy anything.

I'd rather that happen than me like sell a ton of products and stand for nothing. And so I knew what I had to do. And I knew for me it was like, how do I try and stand for something for every little kid out there who's about to see these images and start doubting themselves

and every grown person who still does. And I just knew what I had to do, but honestly, it was really scary. And I remember walking into the studio for this one shot, this 10 minute window. And Jay, you'll totally understand the setup, but there is cameras everywhere, a big time clock on the floor, at 10 minute,

that was set for 10 minutes. And I knew once the host came to my set, because everything's so quick and real time, like they'll go from Dyson vacuum to, you know what I mean? So once she came to my set and that clock started, we'd be live to a hundred million homes that would get one shot.

And I learned, which was really fun. I learned, oh, if you're not selling, hitting your goal a minute or two in, they'll actually cut your time. Like you can, yeah, eight minutes left and jump to two minutes left. And you know, oh, it's not going well. And if you try to sell nothing sells, so I was freaking out. And, you know, you talk a lot about this and about vision and about mission, about purpose. And about this and about vision and about mission, about purpose. And those words of wisdom that are so powerful that you share are what helps save me. Those ideas are what helps save me in this moment. And what I mean by that is in this like 10 minute segment as we are about to

go live. And I see the clock and it's like 959, 958. And I'm live. I would go into this space of, is my dress too tight? I felt the sweat dripping down and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. In my head, okay, if I make this about me, in this moment, I'm done. Like, I had to in that moment with so much pressure, remember why am I doing this? And like, oh, it's way bigger than me.

It's literally not about me. I remember the moment my bare face bright red, Rosacea came up on national television and I was literally shaking like a leaf and from the pressure of just the moment. And I remember going over to other models, other real women, all ages and skin tones and sizes and skin challenges like I have.

And I'll never forget there's about a minute left in the host. And I didn't know how it was going as freaking out I knew that they hadn't cut my time yet. There was a minute left and the host says the tan shades almost sold out the deep shade is down there And I'm like and shade started selling out and I just literally and I remember the 10 minute mark hit and the big sold out sign came up Across the screen and I should have crying, a national TV, and my husband comes running through the doubletters in the studio and I'm like,

we all remember this booking. And he's like, we're not going bankrupt. And you've met my husband, you could probably imagine doing that. So we're all going bankrupt. And that one airing day, this was after three years of no, right? And that one airing, which was September of 2010,

turned into five airings and a hundred went airings the next year. And then I did 250 live shows a year for eight years. And we built the largest beauty brand in QVC's history. And it is right now, as you and I are talking, it is right now to this day. And the only reason they share that is because it was three years of no.

And like, somebody in your audience needs to hear this today that like, no one can tell you you're not the right fit. No one can. And if you listen to your gut and you're knowing, it's not about selling a company for a billion dollars. It's not about selling out on QVC. It's about, oh, like you said, like am I stepping into all of who I am and am I trusting that. And those are the moments that change our life. Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, full in love, make mistakes,

and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week, we take a deep dive into a unique aspect I'm Gemma Spagg, the host of the Psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships, and much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences, incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science, and a bit of my own personal experience.

Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life. Join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about. From the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our 20s. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg. Now streaming on the iHotRadio app, Apple podcasts, or whatever, you get your podcasts. Conquer your New Year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast Podcast. In each bite-sized daily episode, time management and productivity expert, Laura Vandercam, teaches you how to make the most of your time,

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In the 1680s, a feisty opera singer burned down a nunnery and stole away with her secret lover. In 1810, a pirate queen negotiated her cruiseway to total freedom with all their loot. During World War II, a flirtatious gambling double agent helped keep D-Day a secret from the Germans. What are these stories having common? They're all about real women who were left out of your history books. If you're tired of missing out, check out the Womanica podcast, a daily women's

history podcast highlighting women you may not have heard of but definitely should know about. I'm your host Jenny Kaplan, and for me, diving into these stories is the best part of my day. I learned something new about women from around the world and leave feeling amazed, inspired, and sometimes shocked. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, no, wow, I mean, I was literally with you when you were sharing that. And that's what I love about the storytelling in your book as well.

It's like, I'm with you and I can feel it with you. And when you're talking about whether you're sweating or whether you look like I'm with you. And I feel it all. You know what I love about what you've just shared? It convinces me and gives me more confidence in faith in the idea that purpose is the only thing that can let someone win. Because what you were just sharing with us is you had to make it not about you.

It was about the people who were struggling with the skin condition. It was about the people that are not being welcomed onto ads and not welcomed into magazines and not welcomed because of the judgment that society had at the time. And you were doing it before. I feel like a lot of these topics are being talked about today.

This is what we're talking about, it's like 13 years ago, like 13, 14 years ago. And it was like a seven-year journey to try and shift this to happen in the beauty space. And the thing that's so special to share is we built to millions and millions of customers over a thousand employees, all of that. And like I think it's like 95%

the last time I checked over our customers have no skin issues. Wow. 95%, Right? It's people that feel less alone and more enough and more seen in our tired of seeing images that don't look like them. And don't just want to find great makeup products

because actually it's not even why I created the brand and even though I love our products, it's like it's not like I created the brand. I created it to try and shift culture even for women to be more confident on the days that I don't want to wear makeup. You know what I'm saying? And to feel just as beautiful. So it was like this way bigger, bigger thing. And exactly what you said, I think is so true. And I, you know, one of the stories I talk about in the book is this experience I had of Mean Girls and dealing with that. And I actually never was bullied as a kid.

I had with Mean Girls and dealing with that. And I actually never was bullied as a kid. And the first time I ever was bullied was in my 30s in the QBC Green Room. And it was like shocking because it was adult women. And I've never shared, I mean, 95% of the book, I've never shared before. But I share these stories because I just want everyone going through them to connect and to see, like, oh,

here's one idea of how to get through it. And here's another perspective on it. And, you know, in this story, I had friends I thought were my friends. And by the way, most of my close girlfriends are their friends for like 20 years. And they are amazing. And they all have different faiths. They don't vote the same. They don't love the same.

All the things. And they are amazing. So I'm blessed out really great friends. But one thing I learned is, you know, when you start a new dream, not everyone's happy when you actually start to become successful. And I had this moment where I thought there's a couple of just a handful of women. And I really thought of my friends and when my brand sort of really taking off, they didn't like that.

And I went through this season of bullying, which I go into in the book, and I would like go out and leave a show after like selling all the sales pressure and I leave a show and go sit in the car and cry for hours and then come back in and have another show and just trying to get through it and figuring it all out. And I had this big moment that was, the two big moments actually, Jay, that happened in the KVC

green room that we're life changing. And I've now seen to the universal across thousands of entrepreneurs I've met and all the women I mentor now, two big things happen in this journey of Mean Girls. I realized, oh my gosh, so many of us think, it's easy to think that someone else's success takes away from our own. And I don't believe that's true.

And, uh, right, it's not true. And what I decided to do in this moment of getting bullying was not let it be a distraction, not actually even for a second think I'm competing with them. And I had this big, uh-huh moment where I realized, and I believe this to my core, none of us are here to compete with anyone else. I believe we're here to compete with the person we know we're born capable of becoming. And that person has nothing to do with anyone else. Like, that's to your point, our own unique purpose, our own unique calling. And that's what I focused on. And even to this day, Jay, I know I'm nowhere near that person yet, who I'm capable of becoming.

But I'm sure, you know, on my journey, but the thing that when I kept that as my focus, what ended up happening in these eight years I spent in the green room, I saw thousands of entrepreneurs come and go. And when I look back at like, oh, what's the commonality with the ones that actually made it, and the ones that built something that lasted or built something that matters. And to your question earlier, it's not how smart are they, how qualified are they, right? It's literally this simple. This is what I've seen in thousands of entrepreneurs. The ones that were the same on air live,

selling to customers, which is a form of connection, right? But as they are in the green room, the people that had that alignment were the same for better or worse. Some are quirky, and crazy, and funny, and some are not. But the ones that were offensively themselves on camera, same as in the green room, those are the ones that last, right? And the whole idea, right?

Because you know all of the research out there that you can't, like it's impossible to have a real human connection unless you fully show up authentically as yourself. And so many people think, oh, I'm distracted by social media, I need to show up like somebody else. Or this is working for someone else on their page or with their community. So let me try to show up like somebody else or this is working for someone else on their page or with their community

So let me try to show up that way because then I'll get more followers or like or let me show up this way in the dating world whatever it is It we're literally putting a barrier up a disconnection when we show up as our representative and I watch this happen thousands of times where someone would be Super, you know, whatever in the green room, amazing, funny, happy, sad, introverted, whatever it is. And then they go on air and they're their representative. And you can't think authenticity. And it's the most freeing lesson in the world because it's so much pressure when you think you have to change who you are or be more like someone else or

Hide the parts of you that you feel like our past mistakes or Embarrassing or anything else and it's like oh no the power is and the freedom and the freedom is in realizing Oh my gosh when I fully like like fully show up as who I am for better or worse, that's your superpower. And that's when people actually authentically connect with you, whether it's customers or your community online. And I feel like when people get that,

it's the most freeing thing in the world because it doesn't matter what someone else is doing on social media or this or that. It's like all that matters is you like fully showing up as who you are. It's really, and I talk a lot about this in the book, this idea that authenticity alone doesn't guarantee success, but inauthenticity guarantees failure. It's just seen it not thousands of times. I just think it's one of the most freeing things to learn. And I think it helps us to use the words you shared earlier. I think it helps us build our confidence

around becoming all of who we are. Yeah, but I love the way you define authenticity as alignment between the green room and being on stage. Because I think authenticity today, there's a lot of misconception about that. Authenticity just means like being yourself, and showing yourself, but what you're saying is actually like internally, your integrity is aligned.

And what I love about the book, and this is what I recommend to everyone, when you grab a copy, you'll see this, is that Jamie walks through all the struggles we have. So you have chapters which he just mentioned, believe in the power of authenticity, but then there's other beliefs that we all need, like believe in being brave over being liked.

And I love the way the book structured on what we need to believe in versus what we need to stop believing. So Jamie, I wanna ask you this question. And I think it's gonna really help everyone who's listening and watching today, because when I'm speaking ask you this question, and I think it's going to really help everyone who's listening and watching today, because when I'm speaking to you, I can feel you're just belief in humanity and believe in people just like, it just, you know, bounces off you.

Like it's coming through you. Like you really believe, not just in what you're saying, but you really believe in everyone who's listening, but they're beating themselves up right now. There's someone who's listening to this and they've just spent the whole day beating themselves up. They've spent the whole week beating themselves up. And I almost think like the opposite of belief is not doubt, it's beating yourself up

because doubt is questioning yourself and that's a positive healthy habit. But the negative unhealthy habit is you're just beating yourself up. If someone's listening right now and they've been being themselves up, what would you say to them? Yeah, I would say you're not alone. I would say the very, I love that you're asking this question. It's so important because I think when we do beat ourselves up, it's so easy to think that we're alone and not. But other people don't do that. It's just us and we're wrong and we're bad and we're damaged and all those things, right?

And I think the first and most important thing is that I think this is a universal thing that every person, and I just think even the way our brains are wired that we're tempted to do that. And I think that the words we say about ourselves to ourselves, right, are the most important and powerful words. So one of the things I really go into in my book, and I talk about this a lot, is this idea of almost an imaginary volume dial. And another thing I talk about a good friend of mine, Bob Gough taught me this lesson, and I said, oh my gosh,

it was just in a small group conversation. I'm like, this has changed my life and I'm like, Bob, can I share this with everyone? Because it's going to serve a lot of people and I talk about this too, where he talks about the power of your microphone, right? So here's the thing we all need to get really good at and this takes practice and it takes time and it takes intentionality in terms of just being aware of it. But I imagine a volume dial, right?

And we need to get really good at knowing when to turn the volume down on stuff and when to turn the volume up on stuff, right? And for example, with the guy that said to me, no one will buy makeup from someone who looks like you, or I can go into literally thousands of stories, Jay, about some of the rejections and some of the things that people sent to me along the journey. And even to this day, I mean, every one of us hops on social media and it's so easy to see a great,

beautiful positive message. And it's just as easy to find someone saying something hurtful, right? So this is something that's a universal experience. And whether it's someone saying this in social media or it's us saying it to ourselves, we have to get really good at. And the way I do this, I literally imagine this imaginary volume dial where I, and still to the day, you know, I still have thoughts of self-doubt that pop up about the most random things.

And I'm now able to catch them. I literally imagine myself turning the volume down on them. And I instantly replace it with something positive that somebody said that I believe I know it's true. We are not built to remind ourselves about the positive things about ourselves, right? We have to do it intentionally and share story in the book of well first I want to say too about the microphone thing. A lot of us have friends and family around us that mean well and that we want to keep in our life because they've been in our life forever and all the things. But when we share our

hopes or our dreams of them or when we share our hopes or our dreams with them, or when we share our struggles with them, they say things often with a great intention that just aren't worth, that just lower our vibration, right? And one of the things I talk about that my friend Bob Bofscher and I talk about this a lot in the book is learning how who to hand your own microphone to in life to speak into and when you need to take that microphone back. And a lot of people struggle because maybe they watch your show and they have big vision for the kind of life or the kind of health or the kind of love that they want in their life. But then they're sharing that and those thoughts and those ideas with people in their circle

or in their family or in their home, and then instantly they fill their vibration get lower. Instantly, they go back to that place of self-doubt. And so one big thing, and I talk about Selot and believe it, is holding your own microphone. Imagine for anyone listening and not watching this. Imagine a news reporter who's holding a microphone and they hand it over to somebody to speak into you, right, and give their story. And then they're able to take their microphone back. You watch really

season TV news journalists. They never let go of their microphone because they know if you give it to someone who's giving you a firsthand account of something or other, that personal take that microphone and you have a hard time getting it back on live TV, right? That's such a good analogy. That's such a good analogy. But imagine in real life, every second Jay, we're giving our microphone to someone else

when we're letting them speak into our life, right? And sometimes it's like a friend at the gym and sometimes it's a family member. But we have to get really good at going, oh, when I'm struggling and when I, you know, need someone to talk to and I talk to this person, is this filling my soul? Is it helping me? If it's not, you have to take your microphone back from that person. You can still keep them in your life, but maybe you talked to them about like, what happened on the bachelor last night or whatever,

but you don't talk to them about your struggle. And similarly, you know, so many people I know want your show and are inspired for their own purpose and their own sense of health and their own sense of peace. And, you know, if you share these ideas maybe with a partner, maybe it's your spouse or your boyfriend or girlfriend or significant other, whatever, they may not

be on that same path of enlightenment and personal growth. And you might be so frustrated that you keep sharing it with them. And then you're just like, oh, so listen, like, and then all you're doing is literally stealing your own joy and lowering your own vibration. And you keep trying to do that. And so I've learned this lesson. And I think it's so powerful of taking your microphone back. And similarly, you know, why you and I talked, I think for 14 hours, the first trip we were on

and Roddy and all the amazing people on that trip is like, oh, you can feel when you're speaking into each other's microphone and your vibration's going higher. And people get it and they're dreaming. And it's not that people tell you what they want to hear. They'll still call you out in your craft. But like everyone has this vibration, right? And I think knowing, and by the way, your show can be something that someone puts their microphone up to, right? It doesn't always have to be a person physically in their life. Your book is a perfect example. Absolutely.

Yeah, exactly. And so that is huge. And what I would say for people, you know, really just struggling with that inner critic is that I think it is a practice of identifying it. And for me, of course, I am the biggest proponent of therapy. And I'm the biggest proponent of personal growth and all of those things. And in my book, I share a lot of the tools that worked for me because I think that so many of us are in that spot and that self-doubt takes over.

We start to hold on to past labels people put on us. Words they said about us past mistakes, past miscalculations or regrettable incidents or things we did wrong. But like, I believe in life, like we're not our past mistakes or any of those things. I believe we're our intentions going forward. And I think that, you know, starting some of these, implementing some of these tools from the book and into your real life is really big because for me, I battled self-doubt my whole life. And, you know, there are so many stories, the investor and the weight one is just one of many. There are so many that I share and talk about how did I get through. And, you know, I would create

this imaginary toolbox that I would just go back from and pull from. And one thing in my imaginary toolbox is just every time I catch myself, putting myself down, telling myself things like you're not quite off, I get a shabby. I pulled from another moment and I replaced that in my own mind and I try to turn the volume up on that, right? And sometimes it can be, you know, something kind that somebody said in the line at Starbucks like, sometimes it can be someone saying,

oh, you just brighten my day and I'll remind myself, oh, and I turn the volume upon that. There's a moment I share the first time when I met Michelle Obama and some things she shared to me in the book. And she just said the most beautiful words now. I won't give up the story, but those words, I replay them in my mind, right?

So, when I have moments like I'm tempted to replay my own self-doubt, I literally turn it down and I replace it. And I think that's a big thing. And I think it's important to know we're not alone in a solid journey. You know, the way we started this conversation, I think, is so relevant to this question, which is all of us have these experiences of self-doubt, and then we all of a sudden have the noise in other people's opinions, or if you're launching a business or building a community online, like what I went through was years of no proof that my idea was going to work. So when we have no proof around us that what we're doing might be successful. And we have friends and family worried about us saying,

are you sure you should have quit your job or are you sure you're qualified? All those things, right? And then we have rejection. And then we have our own self doubt. It can be so loud that we literally end up like staying in our comfort zone, talking ourselves out of our own truth, right? Staying in our comfort zone, never starting the dream, never, you know, writing the book, never creating the blog and the podcast or, right? All those things, we stay in our comfort zone, which makes a lot of other people more

comfy too, but then it ships away at our own soul. And I think it's, it robs us from becoming the person we're born to be. So it's a journey, I think of intentionality. And we're all in a together, right? And what a beautiful thing that anybody going through this right now is able to hear your show and is able to hear you and me and connect with us. Because I believe we're all connected. Absolutely.

And I believe we all have the same hopes and doubts and fears and dreams and all that. I love that. Everyone, that is Jamie Kanlima. Believe it is the name of the book, how to go from underestimated to unstoppable. I want everyone to go and grab a copy of the book. You had like a smidge of the stories. There are incredible stories, tools, techniques, everything inside this book that's going to actually help you break through the biggest issue in your life, which is belief. Self-belief, that's the biggest block. There is no bigger block. And all of it is laid out in this wonderful book that Jamie's put together.

And Jamie, I'm going to end with you with what we do with every guest. There's our final five. So these answers have to be given in one word or one sentence maximum as there are final five. And so Jamie, are you ready for your final five? Let's go, Jamie. Okay, awesome. So the first question I have is, what is the best advice you've ever received? God can dream a big dream for you than you can for yourself. I love that. That's an awesome piece of advice. I fully agree.

Okay. Second question. What's the worst advice you've ever received? You need to change this about yourself to fit in and then you'll do great. Brilliant. Great answer. Okay. Third question.

What's something that you know to be true, but people may disagree with you on. Something that you're confident about, but people may not quite get it. These famous words, I'm so confident about them, and I remind myself about them every time I start to doubt myself, it's a famous thing I think that applies in our what faith you are, and God doesn't call the qualified.

He qualifies the call. Oh, I love that. That gives that just. Not everyone agrees with it. I live by it. That just gave me she was that that's really power. I love that. That's beautiful. I love that. That is, yeah, that is so beautiful. I love that. Thank you for sharing that with me. Okay, question number four, we got two left. Question number four, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months? Champions aren't made when the game is easy. And this has been a tough year for so many people.

I believe if anyone's listening to your show right now, I believe they're a champion. I think we'll get through this and certainty won't take us down. I love that. Thank you for saying that. And fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Be left. Hmm, I love that. Live love, be left. That's beautiful.

We all are. Everyone, believe it, is the name of the book. How to go from under estimated to unstoppable. Jamie can't leave it. Jamie, it has been just amazing talking to you. I've felt every ounce of energy through the screen. I know that right now you've been busy with press and interviews. You've got so many amazing people supporting your book. I mean, you know, Jamie's got everyone's from like Oprah and Robin Roberts and just incredible people that absolutely adore you and what you do. And I want to thank you for taking this time to be on on purpose to stay up after everything busy day to do this interview with that much energy and that much conviction. I mean, I'm just totally grateful to call you a friend and I'm grateful for how you show up every single day. And I'm grateful for just how you showed up today, despite the amount of things you have going on. So thank

you so much, Jamie. And I can't wait for this book to be in people's hands. I'm so excited. Jay, I'm excited. And thank you to you. And it is always the greatest joy when you meet someone in real life who's literally fully exactly as they are when you see them, you know, online. And that was you and wow, what a gift. It's a super grateful for your friendship to you. And I hope our conversation blessed people because again, we're all in this together and said thank you so much.

Thank you for having me. Absolutely, everyone, please go and follow Jamie on Instagram. Tag us both with the biggest lessons and takeaways from this session. When you're reading her book, go and post that on Instagram as well. Tag her and tag me to let us know

that you found out about the book here so that we can see all the love and all the learnings that you're gaining. Go and find her across social media, Facebook, Instagram, all the other platforms, and go and follow and go and learn about how you can do. You can start to believe in yourself,

believe into your dream, and find that voice inside of you. So thank you again, Jamie, and thanks everyone for listening. Next is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHartio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcast. Take good care. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season, and yet we're constantly discovering new secrets. The variety of them continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share ten incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The world of chocolate has been turned upside down.

A very unusual situation. You saw this tax-appache in our office. Chocolate comes from the cacao tree, and recently, Variety's cacao, thought to have been lost centuries ago, were rediscovered in the Amazon. There is no chocolate on Earth like this. Now some chocolate makers are racing deep into the jungle to find the next game-changing chocolate, and I'm coming along. OK, that was a very large crack it up.

Listen to obsessions while chocolate. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.