On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Jared Freid & Jordana Abraham: Dating App Burnout? Do THIS 30-Day Challenge to Stop Wasting Time and FINALLY Meet the Right Person

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

Are you making time for the kind of love you want? Do you feel like you’re ready to stop repeating old patterns? Today, Jay welcomes Jared Freid and Jordana Abraham, hosts of the hit dating podcast U Up?, for a candid, lighthearted look at modern love. Together with Jay, they unpack why dating feels tougher than ever, from app burnout to myths about what it means to be “dateable,” and how negativity online makes the process feel heavier than it is. Instead of rigid rules, they offer a mindset shift: lead with curiosity, keep your attitude light, and build on a life you already love, not one you expect someone else to complete. The conversation dives deeper into the nuances of attraction, commitment, and the subtle ways we self-sabotage. Jared shares how men often end relationships early, not out of rejection, but out of fear of responsibility and the lure of endless options. Jordana, emphasizes how mindset is 70% of dating, and how showing up fulfilled and confident makes you more magnetic than trying to “fit” someone else’s ideal. Together they discuss the unrealistic pressures of the social media highlight reel and how that can warp expectations and undermine authentic connections.  In this interview, you'll learn: How to Date Without the Negativity How to Be the Best Version of Yourself on a Date How to Turn Confusion Into Clear Boundaries How to Avoid Self-Sabotaging in Relationships How to Stay Grounded Amid Social Media Comparisons How to Build Confidence by Building a Full Life Outside Dating The most powerful shift you can make is choosing to approach love with openness, positivity, and confidence in your own worth. When you lead with curiosity instead of fear, with joy instead of judgment, you not only create better connections, but you also become more grounded in who you are. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here.  What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 03:36 Negativity Doesn't Make You a Better Dater  07:55 Dating Burnout  14:27 You Shouldn’t Just Rely on Dating Apps! 18:06 The Checklist for Dating 22:34 Staying Single in Your 40s 23:59 The #1 Reason Why Men Go on Dates 27:05 Attitude Is Everything 29:45 What is The Best Relationship Advice? 21:18 How to Be the Best Version of Yourself 35:19 Don't Fall for Social Media Relationships 36:01 Using ChatpGPT to Create Messages 39:00 Why Small Talks Matter 42:06 Do Men Actually Have More Dating Options? 44:51 The One That Got Away 47:42 Are Men and Women Different in Long-Term Relationships? 50:15 Difficult Conversations Every Couple Needs to Have  52:20 The Fear Most Men Have When Dating 57:28 What Makes a Successful Marriage?  01:03:27 Marriage is Choosing Your Partner Every Day  01:05:30 Jared and Jordana on Final Five   Episode Resources: U Up? | YouTube U Up? | Instagram U Up? | X U Up? | TikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Maximize your edge by shopping at Lenovo.com during their back-to-school sale. That's Lenovo.com. Dating apps should be used, like, in the same way that fast food is. I don't think you should say never, ever eat fast food. People have these, like, black and white views towards the dating apps. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them. You can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. There's a time and a place for dating apps, and people should use them, like, when they make sense,

when they can't be out there socializing, when they're really busy with work. But it shouldn't be the only tool. in their tool shed. People are afraid to say, like, I'm just tired of them. People look at dating as it's like on-off switch. It's just like a part of your life. Hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month. Join a fitness class.

Go out to eat once a week without your phone. The app, we have to realize it's a crutch. We have to acknowledge who these apps were created for and by. Because they're not for you. Most people listening are pretty social people. You can do it. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Sheddy.

Jay Shetty. He won, the only. Jay Shetty. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so excited because today I get to invite into the studio two people that I've had the pleasure of getting to know over the last few years. I've been on their show like three times now and I always have the best time with them.

I felt like we hit it off immediately and it's got more fun every time. So it is an honor to have them on the On Purpose studio. I'm talking about Jared Freed and Jordana Abraham, the hosts of the hit dating and relationship podcast, you up if you haven't subscribed already. Make sure you go and do that. They break down the confusing, chaotic and hilarious world of modern dating, which I know all of you need a lot of help with. Jared is a stand-up comedian and writer.

His work has been featured on Netflix and Comedy Central. And Jordana is the co-founder of Betches, a digital media brand with a reach of over 40 million across platforms and a leading voice on dating. self-development and modern relationships. Please welcome to On Purpose, Jordana and Jared. Great to be here. Thank you so much. We're so excited.

What an intro. I mean, you do everything. You do everything right. You know, like, I'm just sitting here, listen to your intro. I'm like, man, he's nailing it. Got it down. Just has it down. Like, even when you introduce the podcast, like, this is the podcast for, you know,

you tell people what they're listening. I'm like, I feel like I'm in like a, you know, a class. It's a real professional. Yeah, this is a pro. This is a pro. You know, we run a lot of podcasts. This is a professional. This is a pro.

You guys are pros. The tables have turned today there. Right. I get to quiz you and make Jared feel uncomfortable. Right. That was always, that's always my goal when you come on our show. I'm like, how can I get Jay shoddy? You mess with him a little bit.

A little bit like. And I love it. And you nail it. It's just always a surprise. I mean. He always knows how to take your annoying questions and turn them into, and own them. To own them and then you turn them. I've said this to many people.

I just, I don't want to take over it. over your show. You are doing that. I'm doing that right now. And your audience is like, I hate this guy, he won't shut up, let Jay do his thing. But I have to say what a great guy you are. I, because I did this bit when you came on the show where I was like, Jay, can you give pep talks to people who are going through it?

And then I read this whole sad monologue about my life. And it wasn't me saying it was me. And I, but I was joking, but like, you know, sometimes sad stories are meant to be funny. And you took it and you were like, you are. are enough. And then I texted you later that day. You texted me first. Hey, man, had a great time. And just remember, you are enough. It's the sweetest text I have ever gotten in my entire, I want to make sure it's on camera on podcast because I can't. He's like, they're going to cut this. Right. Get rid of that sappy shit. Let's talk about dating. Yeah, I, I just have to say,

because I, you know, sometimes you listen to people, you go, what do they like off camera? That's like the, it's truly the nicest text I've ever gotten. Yeah. I'm going to send more of the Please. It improved my whole day, yeah, or month, whatever. I'm still talking about it. The feeling's mutual. You guys have been so kind to have me on three times. We have the best time ever. And I love the side of me you bring out. I don't always get to show that. I don't always get to show that fun, playful, energetic side on my platform. So it's, that's a part of me that I get to share with both of you. And so you give me an opportunity to do that. But let's play. You always are game. That's the thing. And I, you know, we appreciate that so much.

because some, you know, we talk about dating and relationships, which is like a very personal thing, you know, so. And that's what we want to talk about today. Yes. Because my audience, community, I've got groups of friends. I've got so many people who've written in. We've scoured the world to prepare for this podcast. But the first thing I wanted to start off with is dating.

You guys know everything about it. You're doing it, Jared. You're not doing it anymore, but there's a part of your life. Yeah. What's your hot take on current dating? like what's what's the take what's the viewpoint that you think is surprising you right now that's different right now on dating i think the negativity that's out there right now while it's founded like you can always be negative about dating and you'll find a million people that will help you

like you'll find a million people that will back you up and tell you how right you are for being negative about it but it's the least helpful thing for your dating life and it's not the thing that's going to get you on the first date. It's not the thing that's going to make you a better dater. It's the only thing that you can find other people to cheer you on for that actually makes your dating life worse. Wow, that's a good one. I like that.

Yeah, 100% agree. Because I do these dating pep talks all the time. And it's a joke. It's pointing out that I heard a relationship and I heard this couple get in a fight. And then I talk about how lucky you are to be single. And I point that out. And you see so many people that are just like, it's almost like crazy to me that they never thought of it.

Yeah. Like being single is a good thing. You're hopeful. You're looking for to make your life better, you know? And I think all you hear about is maybe that you're doing it wrong or do this or do that. And it's like, whatever you're doing is fine. You're you. It's going to work out.

But I think the negativity that we see online, like that's easy to do because it's like biting a mosquito bite. It feels pretty good. But it's not really helping you. That's a great perspective. I was just talking to one of my producers. in a long-distance relationship, and she was saying every night she goes home right now, she turns on her favorite show and she just binge watches it. And all of our reaction was like, oh, okay. And she was like, I sit alone on the couch. And she was like, but actually this is

the last time I'm ever going to get to do this. So I'm loving it. Like that mindset of actually, oh, wow, like this is the last time ever. It's just going to be me on my couch, binge watching whichever show I want and looking at it positively rather than the negative of that. And I think that's, you're so right. And I want to dive into that. I want to hear Jordanis first. Yeah, I think going off of that, I think, you know, we talk about, like, you know, no one wants to hear diet and exercise for, like, you know, fitness or losing weight. But, like, I think that I totally agree with Jared.

I think the diet and exercise of, like, dating is really, like, going into anything you're doing in the dating space with a good attitude and then having a full life outside of dating. So it's not the only thing that you're focused on because I do think attitude is, like, 70% of it. Like, I think it's such an underrated part. I think so many people think if I just. keep going on more dates, more is more. And I'm kind of there, but I don't want to be there. I'm in a negative mindset. I'm on the app still. I'm so annoyed. I'm still on the apps.

You go on the dates and you think you're actually trying, but you're bringing not like a fun, exciting version of yourself that someone would want to date, someone with a full life, someone who just think someone would add to their already great life. And you're kind of expecting someone to fill in what's missing. And I think that's really what holds people back. and they don't even realize they're doing it. And when you're holding back, like more on that, just like when you're holding back and you're being negative,

like, you're not being your full self. So you're not even bringing people into your world. Like, you want, and like, we're not this, like, woo-woo podcast. We're not there telling, like, there's nothing more annoying than, like, cheer up from your married friend. Oh, you'll find it when you're not looking. It's like, goff. You know, like, that's not advice.

That's not helpful. But it's like the minute you give in to like, I got this great life, I'm looking for someone to make it better. I'm not looking for just anyone. Then you start to have taste, you know, and that's something where people are so afraid to even like admit they go, I'm confused. That's what you hear from people dating. I'm confused.

No, you're turned off. Change the wording. Now it's powerful. Now you have taste. Now you have ownership over like, oh, I do like and dislike things. I am looking for certain things in a partner. Like, you know, living your full life. Like, when you say, these are the things I do,

you're willing to have someone go, I don't do that. And you can go, good, get out of here. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. So let's apply that to what everyone's saying right now where there's this mass fatigue around dating apps. You both hear it more than anyone. Where every other person you speak to is just like,

I'm sick of the dating apps. I'm tired of the dating apps. I hear it all the time as well. How do you then apply that to the fatigue around dating apps? So when people are saying to you, hey, I'm exhausted, you're not saying cheer up. What are you saying? I mean, I think dating apps should be used, like, in the same way that fast food is.

Oh, tell me. I don't think you should say never, ever eat fast food. It's going to ruin your life. And I think people have these, like, black and white views towards the dating app. I think they're great in moderation, and you need to be controlling the way you use them, just like anything else on the internet, just like Instagram or TikTok. Like, you can't just be on it scrolling mindlessly. You can't just be on it swiping mindlessly.

I think there's a time and a place for dating apps and people should use them like when they make sense, when they can't be out there socializing when they're really busy with work, but it shouldn't be the only tool in their in their tool shed because just like with fast food, if you eat it all the time, you're going to feel sick. If you eat it on a road trip every now and then, that's fine. You're like an indulge and have a great time. But like don't make that the only, make that your entire lifestyle. Yeah. And we have to like acknowledge that. Like I think people are afraid to say like I'm just tired of them like you hear that but like if you went to McDonald's every day if you went to fast food every day and someone was like yeah I've eaten uh you know fast food every

day for the last week I'm tired of it you would go yeah you should take some time off of that yeah like you we wouldn't look at that person go well you're not trying if you stop going for fast food like people look at dating as it's like on off switch it's just like a part of your life and I don't know it's just it's we like right now I'm doing we we've said on the podcast we're summer challenge. Okay. Okay. Here's the summer challenge. Delete the apps. You're doing it too. I'm doing it too. I'm single. You're deleting all the apps. I deleted all the apps. Okay. This is for June, July, August. And how many apps is that for you? 17? No, I was on one app at the time. Deleted it. Okay. June, July, August. That's the

promise. Okay. And then what's your plan? The plan is hang out with your friends who are in relationships once a month. Okay. Make one plan a month with like Jordan and her husband, my brother and his wife. Make a plan with someone who's married or in a relationship. Then join a fitness class. Do something different. Do a different fitness class. Whatever it is. Go out to eat once a week every Wednesday without your phone. On your own. Put on your own. Put in your pocket. Put your phone in your pocket. Look up. Because we're kind of like addicted to these things. Like the app we have to realize as a crutch. It was made by. male nerds to try and be social.

If you think about it, the app, you never get dumped on an app. You never get broken up with you. You never hear a no. It's swipe left. That's a no from you. Swipe right. You either get a match right away or you get nothing. And when you get nothing, what does your brain go?

Guess they haven't seen me yet. That was invented by someone who didn't want to go up to someone in public and experience public failure. Oh, that's good. So we have to acknowledge who these apps were created. for and by because they're not for you. Most people listening are pretty social people. You can do it.

But sometimes we need to like create these little games like we're doing with this like challenge to get yourself out there because the phone is so addictive. So like I go to dinner on a Wednesday. I sit at the bar and I look up. That's it. I'm not promising you a boyfriend. There's nothing going by the way. That's interesting.

Great. Great. I have conversations. I have stories. I have experiences. is hanging out with your married friends, that is the, that's the answer. Because, and I speak from the guy perspective on the podcast,

of course, but I'm like, I speak for myself. We talked about not saying this anymore, but we see, we're not experts, okay? No one's a dating expert. We are, I'm just an expert in my own feelings and my own experiences. So when I talk on the show, like, I was thinking of, like, we have so many women who, their response to, like, hang out with their married friends.

It's like, they don't know. anybody. Oh, my friend's husbands, they don't know any of their friends. They never have a guy for me. It's like, first of all, don't hang out with your married friends to get something from it. Hang out with your married friends to hang with them and have a good time and be you. Okay. And if you do that, what you want from that experience is for the husband to go, oh, yeah, Jessica's pretty cool. That's all you want. Why does Coca-Cola still have ads? So you think of Coca-Cola the first drink when you need a soda. That's such a good point. Same thing. You want to. want to make yourself Coca-Cola's to your married friends because that husband does know people.

Yeah. He is talking. Yeah. But he meant we don't care about dating a relationship. That's why men don't listen to our podcast. You know, like right now you're RC Cola. Right, right, right. They're going, oh, I guess I haven't thought of them lately. But if you make yourself the first thought in their brain when cool chick comes up, because it's going to happen. But that's the thing. So when hang out with like my brother and his wife and you know i'm doing that with his wife but my brother you know my brother's my brother but like you know if i go hanging out with jordan and her husband like he's gonna you know he comes across i'm the first thought on it well we'll see but i i think person he's thinking about every day and these are like the things that don't go

viral yeah you know you know that's a great point you know negativity goes viral salacious stories go viral not hey go out with your married friends well it's like it's like Lose ties, right? Right. Lose ties. Who do we get that from? Meg, something. Sorry.

We've got her last name. Right. But we've, you know, our podcast, we've just collected all these experiences that we hear the, the voices of so many people and how they're going through it. And I'm not doubting that. Yeah. It's hard.

But it's, that's also the fatigue element. Yeah. Dating apps just get you more. Not better, more. Right. So it's more intros, which are good, more break. makeups, more disappointment, you know, more conversations. If you had more conversations a day, you're going to find more annoying people a day. So, of course, you're going to have more stories

that are negative. Yeah. So the fatigue is really, you know, the numbers of it all. Yeah, I can't remember the exact math, but Tim Ferriss had broken it down. He was like, for every 100 people, there's like five narcissists, one psychopath. And so when you have like a million followers, you're going to have, you know, the same percentage of narcissists, psychopaths. It's the same on a dating app if you, yeah. Like, I think I use sweet and low in my coffee. It's like the strongest sweetener. Okay.

And everyone's going to tell me that I'm going to have a heart attack and I'm going to die. I'm okay with that. For a sweeter coffee, I'm okay. But, you know, dating apps are like sweet and low. Like, you're going to, it's really going to hit you. You know, going to a bar and trying to meet someone new is like putting sugar in your drink. It's not going to, you're only going to get a, you're going to need a lot more sugar. Yeah.

But it's going to be a better quality drink. And if you said this, it's like, no, you don't need a dating app in the summer. No. Right? You don't need it in the summer. Right. You are out in the summer. You're taking vacation in the summer.

You're hanging with friends in the summer. Hence, you're doing the challenge now. That's why I'm doing the challenge. So what's the complete challenge? Lay it out again so everyone else can do it. The summer dating challenges, delete the apps. Just get off them. We'll come back in September.

Yeah. Yes. Doesn't have to be forever. No, doesn't have to be forever. I want to say you can never eat McDonald's back. It's the end of the season. You got to wait for the next season. Wait for the next season and see how it goes.

We've tried the apps. You hate them. So let's try something new. Go to dinner once a week by yourself, phone in pocket. Don't take out your phone. Make it a challenge to yourself. Go to a new fitness class. Just because that gets you out and active and doing something new.

Hang out with your married friend and their husband, married friend and their wife once a month. Make a plan. It doesn't have to be a vacation. Doesn't have to be anything crazy. Just hang out with. with them and have a good time. And I do think the feedback I'm going to give is like, if you come to me and go, well, I didn't work, I think you've looked at it the wrong way. And we're on a

wellness podcast. We can think of the intrinsic value of hanging out with your friends. I hope the listenership can understand that. For sure. Because with dating, some people go, well, where's my boyfriend? And I go, you don't sound like someone I would ever want to date. Right. Well, then again, at the end of the challenge, you go back on. on the apps and you're a more invigorated, more energized version of yourself. Who's not saying... It's the fast food example, which I loved. Who's not saying, hey, as their opening line, because you're more, you know, you're putting

more energy into the interactions that you are having. Yeah, I do that like once a week. Like, once every two weeks, I have mentally been so disciplined and focused on work, working out, eating, right, all the rest of it, that I need a day where I don't care. And so usually Saturday night is that day. I have this, there's this, I have no idea how this place, I don't want to, no, I don't want to get them sued, but I don't know, I have no idea how this place exists. There's this place in LA called Mr. Charlie's. It is vegan McDonald's. Okay. If you go outside, it looks like

McDonald's. They have an upside down frown, they have a smiley, like, that's so funny. From the outset, it's yellow and red. Like, it literally looks like McDonald's. I, as someone who grew up going to McDonald's, but now I'm vegan and I don't eat meat, have been searching for vegan McDonald's my whole life. I've now found it. And the fries taste the same. The chicken nuggets taste the same. The mayo tastes the same. The lettuce tastes the same. So Saturday, usually once every two weeks, I will eat chicken nuggets, fries, burger, whatever it is. But it's that feeling of like, come Monday morning, I'm reinvigorate to work out again. Exactly. Yeah. I'm reintegrate to have my discipline again. Because I've allowed my brain

this space to go there. Yes. And you probably enjoy it so much more than if you had it. If you had it every day, you wouldn't feel great. Yeah. Exactly. Right. One thing I've been getting a lot, though, and this kind of comes from the point that Jared was talking about. Right now, I have so many single female friends that I think are amazing. Yes. That I'd love to introduce to good men. And now it's hitting me right now that I've not thought of Jared before. So now I need to change that up.

And I've heard I've got it. I'm like, you weren't front of mind. You weren't Coca-Cola for me. You didn't come hang out with a married friend. I've messed up. Yeah. But I feel like I have at least, let me think, I have at least three to five female friends who I think are awesome, like genuinely think are awesome. They're the, oh yeah, she's really cool. Right. Like they're smart, they're thoughtful, they're beautiful, all the rest of it. And I actually

struggled to think of single men I know. And that's not, but I'm not saying that they're not good men out there. I'm saying, I don't know many single men. As a married man, I think most of my friends are married or in long-term committed relationships. And they're just struggling out there as well. What are you seeing from a woman's perspective? Because to a lot of them, what they're experiencing is we're strong, confident, ambitious women. And a lot of men are intimidated by that. Yes. I think this is a conversation where I'm seeing all over the place now. I think it's like a very, it feels like a very hot topic now to kind of look at the available single woman. I totally agree with you. I know so many amazing single women. I really don't know that many.

know one amazing single guy. No, I really don't know that many otherwise, and I do think part of it is women are much more likely to want to date men who have the same education level as them or higher or make the same amount of money of them as higher or higher. And I think men are not necessarily looking for that. So I think there's a bigger pool for men of women that they'll be interested in. So I do think women, I don't like the term dating up or dating, you know, But I think, like, when you just look at objective things like education or money, a lot of women don't want to date people who are less educated or have less money than them. To add on to this, I'm sorry to interrupt, the men go by one thing. Am I attracted?

Yeah. That's it. That's the checklist. Right. Well, that allows. That means that could be, that's infinite. Right. What you're talking about is a checklist that women do, are they safe?

Are they educated? Are they, they have the ability to, like, are they hard? worker or the good debt. These are all things that they're thinking about, like, even on the act. And there's, right. And there's fewer, I think, men who meet that criteria for women who are maybe, I don't want to say more selective, but are just looking at things in a different way. And I think as opposed to how things were 20 or 50 years ago, more women are college

educated than men, women are making more money than they ever have before. And so I think the pool, especially as you get older, of men who are at your level or higher, if that's what you're looking for in terms of, like, those things. is just smaller. So I think it just becomes like a numbers game. And I don't know if the solution is for people to be more open-minded or if the solution is, you know what I mean? Because I think there's still a little bit of a double standard around a man who makes

less money than his wife or a man that has less education than his wife. So I think that, I mean, I would hope that as the times change, people are a little bit more open-minded in both directions. Yeah. And I think also, like, we do this all the time. We've talked about this. Where are the single men? And, like, you just said it.

I've said this a million times. I don't know. Even as a single man. Like, I'm a man. I'm not a single guy friend. Right. I don't even know where they would be. Like, I actually, it's become like kind of a joke on the show of like, where are these guys?

Because if there's all these women, but also this, dating and relationships is a topic for women. They get together to talk about this. This is something that men just don't generally get it together and talk about. So it might not be as, you know, in the atmosphere for me. To that level, right. It's, I think dating and relationships seems more like a priority for a lot of women. Just societally, they've been told that that's something they should be thinking about from, you know, 21 years old is like what their future is and who their husband's going to be and what they're getting. And I don't think men are given that pressure. If man goes home for the holidays, he's asked about his job, he's asked about what's going on at work. He's not necessarily most of the time being asked about who he's dating. I think that's a question that women are getting a lot more and that they're much more invested in finding a partner. than a lot of men are around at least men in a similar age group so wait jared you're saying you don't have lots of single guy friends no that not at all that's the thing like i'm not rolling with a group like when you hear a woman get broken up with like the first thing that like a lot of their friends do

they're like i know these other single women like they'll try and like fix them up with single women to go out with they're like their new miranda carry you know samantha crew i've never even heard of that for a guy like oh you got to meet my other guy friends And even you were like, hey, because I moved to Delray Beach. I'm in Florida. And Jordan, I was like, oh, my friends live down there. Do you want to, like, hang out? I was like, I don't want a friend.

Right, do you want a new friend? I was like, no. I don't want a friend. I want to go be lonely at a coffee shop and look at the sun. You know, like I don't want, like, and it's weird because that's my initial reaction. Of course I want friends. Where are all the friendless men? Right.

But I have friends, but I swear, I got friends. You know, like, I sound very defensive. But like, I don't know. like I've thought about this like it is the one thing where I'm like the numbers aren't this off yeah but I don't know because I even like my college friends mostly married you know a couple divorces in their high school friends I got a lot of those still mostly married yeah but I don't really you know I'm 40 I'm single and we just we just don't hear from you know I I know I know I was I was talking to a couple of guys I know who were probably, yeah, late days, early 40s as well.

And they were single and I sent them a couple of pictures of certain girls that I know that are friends of mine that are looking and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And it was like, immediately, it was the point that you said, immediately he was like, nah, she's not, you know. Not for me. Not for me. And it was an attraction thing. But it was so, like, instant.

Right, whereas a woman will say, like, tell me more about him. Totally. Right, yeah. And it was also like, I wouldn't necessarily say that. he was out of her league. He just felt he had more choice. Listen, let me, well, I'll go back at that. That's a good, let's talk about it.

Right, because I don't think that's why men are saying I have all these choices. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now, back to the discussion. I think that's something that's easy to, like, put on single men to, like, hate on them. No, so I'm asking. I would say that, I mean, I've said this on the, the show many like guys there's a pro and con there's there's life is gravity right the the

the the the thing is a guy will not go out with you unless he's attracted to that's just no no other questions just like your friend is it that black and white it's that black and white i'm saying attracted or not or is it like i'm a she's i don't know there's it is men are like be i can relate we see the we see the outline of a woman we go yeah like the idea of like will it matter if i wear you know these types of socks no men don't even notice we just see I'm I'm attracted to that thing and so like when when a guy says he's like not attractive not going that's that's a good thing because you're not on a all women can understand that if you're on a day with a guy if you left the house you know one thing he's attracted you that's a beautiful thing too if you think of it that way

you go I got one thing out of the way if I'm on a day with a girl I don't know why she's there I don't know if she was forced she thought she should if she didn't go she's not That's a great way of looking at you. You know, like, I don't know. Like, I don't know if we, I could get married to a woman. Then I don't know, her wedding day. She's like, and at first, I didn't think he was anything. I wasn't even, you're, you're, you're, you can get a foot in the door.

Right. Well, it's nice and it's bad. Like, I don't want to hear that my wife at first was like, oh, you know, like, but that happens, you know, look at all the our story page for all these women getting married. It's, well, at first I wasn't into him. And then he came over to me and he touched me with his clammy hands. And then I was like, oh, oh, I guess maybe I'll, I'll go on a date.

Like, it's all this, like, horrific tale about how this guy, like, magued his way into this woman. And it's, like, that's nice for her. That's a fun, Marvel, you know, story to tell, like, you're, you know, you're a beginning. But, like. Well, I think women are also more like, I can work with this. Right. Even if someone is not, I think women are more open to dating men who aren't exactly the perfect way that they want them to be as soon as they meet them. Yeah, I can change what they wear and I can.

Oh, well, yeah, they're, you know, they can. yeah, they can work with this or they cannot. I don't think men are thinking that. And in some ways, that makes men more romantic. They're like, I'm not even, if I don't like you just as you are, I'm not going to commit to you. And women are like, if I like the bones, I can work with them. Well, it's that age-old idea of men don't want women to change, but they will, and women

want men to change, but they won't. Exactly. Like, it's that balance of like. Right. Men are just, I mean, like, we always hear about like the Disney princess or like how the Disney movies convince women they're going to find a prince charming and that is very true there's a male version of that you know where men have been told in every coming of age movie that this this woman is just going to show up and she's into video games and she's cool and

she gets it every coming of age movie is some chick who's like ah like giving guys crap and like she's like this dream version and you're kind of told and this guy falls in love so you're kind of told that like someone's going to come along there you're all of a sudden you're going to get it yeah and you're going to want this monogamous lifestyle and you know I don't think either is fair yeah you know and but the looks thing it's everyone has a type everyone's into something there's a butt for every seat I mean I always say this sounds gross but like everyone someone's foot like there's men out there masturbating to feet you know and they there's so many men masturbating a feet that there's a hyperlink on the porn sites that take you directly to feet.

So you are someone's foot. So ugly is not even like hot or attractive is not even a thing. Right. But I'm saying that I don't think think that it's, yeah, it's not like, I don't think the key to doing well in dating is being hot. I think it is really about your attitude. And like, again, how happy you. I think a happy person and like a, again, there's going to, no matter what you look like, there's going to be someone who's attracted to you.

But I think if you are, if someone could be attracted to you physically and you could go on the date and you bring a bad attitude and you seem unhappy with your life and you seem unhappy and you seem like you're burnt out just from being there and your feeling is like he's oh he's not even going to text me again like I think that that is self-sabotaging but you feel that like listen Jordana took my disgusting speech and made it sound a lot better I I it is um you feel that on a date yeah I go out in a lot of you I've been on dates with women who are like the I've had it woman like and then you got to like turn into a clown you got to be like no, got your, got your, got your ear, like, got your nose.

Like, you have to, like, try and make them cheer them up a little bit to, like, go, hey, we're going to be on a date that's not going to be disgusting and horrible. Yeah, yeah. You know, so you can feel when someone's like, I've seen it all. Yeah. And it's hard to get out of. And even if you feel you have, the point is to have the attitude that you're talking about. Right.

Even if you have been in the world. And you can't tell someone to do that. Like, we can talk about it for days, but, like, you got to figure that out. Well, I think, I think the challenge is going back to the. a part about being attractive. We think being attractive means being attractive to everyone. Right. Right. We only feel hot if everyone thinks we're hot. And the reality is no one feels that way because not everyone's going to find you attractive. No matter how, wherever you are on the spectrum of it or however you feel about it, it's the fact that if someone can go out there,

be confident, put the best version of themselves out there, you're giving the person who actually finds you attractive the chance to do that. We've all met people who are attractive that turned us off with their attitude. totally that's like massive and I think we've met people that were like maybe borderline attracted to but are seems so happy and so confident and so happy to be there that it makes them more attractive

I think that there's really like you can't really quantify that but it definitely I'm sure it could sway you too like someone who you're attitude because attitude is everything I mean like you get there and you're like oh my god again to go back to like the you know the coming of age movie

the chick who gets it you know you go oh my god and she's cool and is fun and is like you know you go oh my god everything's here as opposed to being on a date where it's like okay you know show me you're not a dick yeah right and you're like okay i've seen this before you know like i'm not going to be the one that because what happens is if someone's miserable on a day you're like if i do make this person happier now i've made promises to them you know now i've you know love bombed them or like and not even i'm not saying you do that to cheer them up, but you go, now you've, like, put on a performance myself. Like, I'm performing.

Yeah. I'm not even getting to be the real me here because I was just spending the whole time trying to get this person to be happy. And now I've faked it. Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? I'm just because I think that also, that attitude thing also helps you once you're in a relationship. I think everyone thinks, like, okay, once I, like, lock it down, then it's over. But relationships are their own level of work. And I think the best relationship advice I've ever seen is that if you look for what's missing from your partner, if you look for what they're not doing, what they could be doing more of, that's like going to be the reality that you're living in. If you're looking at what they're doing well, what they do better than everyone else,

like you're going to feel really lucky and you're going to feel really happy. So I think attitude just brings you not even when you're single, but once you're like in the relationship, once you're working through that, once you're changing into a relationship that's a long-term marriage or just a long-term relationship, I think that's the attitude is something you really need to keep working on and always be trying to be in a place of looking for what's working and looking for what's good, whether it's your own life or your partner. Yeah, I think this alpha male, high-value woman conversation on TikTok, Instagram, podcast has put this pressure for women to think you've got to look like a model, you've got to look great in these clothes, without clothes,

whatever, right? There's that pressure for women. And the pressure on men is you better be earning multiple six figures you better drive an amazing car you better have a great future and everyone's looking at both of those things going i can't live up to either of them right right right do you see that or well the beauty of being a man is that i don't think i and this is where i feel lucky is that when it comes to dating maybe i'm not making that money but i can i don't think i have to like do the right thing by other men like i never feel judged by other men for how i date and i think think when we hear from women that are dating, they're always wondering, am I doing it right? Is this the right text? Is this the right way to go? And it's almost like, who are you

asking? Who's to say? And I think when it comes to those conversations of like, you know, who we answer to, like, I don't feel the pressure with relationships. You know, I can feel it from the other side of like, hey, what should I wear for a first date? You know, like, when we get that question, like, they're asking us as if we know that we're talking. You know, like, Like, and it's like, what should we wear for the day? What do you say? Whatever makes you feel comfortable and confident. And that's, again, to what Jordana said, the diet and exercise of answers.

Like, no one wants to hear that. Yeah. Well, but you have women that write in about this and you're like, that comes from a place of like, please tell me I'm doing this right. Right. People want rules. Right. People want like the secret sauce, the formula.

And really, it's about you and what works for you. And that's, again, like a less flashy answer. But that's the truth. There's no one way that everyone should act. There's no one kind of person that everyone should be interested in. It's like about what makes you the best version of yourself and everyone is a different person. Every time I hear someone say the phrase high value, I'm like, that person is screwed. Awful.

Yeah. There's awful and screwed. They're thinking of the wrong thing. They're thinking of the internet, I think. And that's the issue, I think, with modern dating, modern. And it's why it's so hard to sort of like appreciate the things about your partner that you really love because you're seeing, you're scrolling all the time and you're seeing someone else's partners. I think of the Pookie and Jet thing. Like someone else's partner surprised them with this bag

or someone else's partner is taking them on these crazy dates and you look at your partner and you're like, where's my crazy date? Where's my like spontaneous surprise trip? And I think that, again, you're not even thinking about it. Is that even something I want? Is that even something that works for me? You're just constantly comparing.

And before you really didn't get that. You didn't get like the behind the scenes of every single couple's highlights of like the best moments that they have together. No one's putting their fights up. No one's putting the, like, stupid argument that they had before bed on the internet. So you're not seeing what's not working for other people until you see the divorce post and then you kind of kind of go through the back.

That's so true. Yeah, it's almost like 25 years ago, you spoke to less people. Right. You knew them really deeply. Yes. And today, you are exposed to more people, but you know them in a really shallow surface way. And so if you had four friends, you knew who was on the verge of divorce, who was having a tough time because you all opened up and you were helping each other out with their problems, whereas

today you're seeing someone who just took that trip for content. Like it wasn't even, it wasn't even a trip. It was content. And they went away and they got this sponsor trip. And now it's like, oh, well, that husband does spontaneous stuff or whatever it may be. Right. And you think there's something lacking in your relationship when there's not, you're only, again, you're only seeing this one side of it. And you don't really know these people that well. You're talking about messaging there and people asking you what messages should we write. How much are you hearing about people getting chat GPT to write their messages back and how are you both feeling more and more it's crazy it's it's funny because again this goes back to i want to be right i don't want to do this wrong so let me

go to chat gpte and it will tell me an answer that i don't have to think about it anymore well listen i think that there's some merit in chat gbt and helping as a tool like anything else like i don't think if you i don't think you should use it not even read it and send it but i think it's like we did a an episode where we did person someone writes in their breakup text They're texting someone after three dates to say they're not interested. And then we have Chad GBT, GBT, write the same text. Chad GBT is better. Not a bad job.

Yeah. It's a little more mature. It's a little well. Is it as personal? Probably not. I think you should edit their thing. But I think if it can help people act like a nicer, better member of society or at least give them somewhere to start, I'm okay.

You're a fan of it for breakups. I wouldn't want to be told to ask for a divorce with chat GBT. But I think, you know, if they wrote the first draft and then someone else edited it, I mean. Well, the thing we have to admit to is that we've been doing a version of CHAPT from the minute dating app started. Listen, when you're texting, you are writing your own script. You are being the person you would like to be. And that's not you on the fly. That's not you on improv or in the moment.

How many times have you been in a conversation or an argument? Then you went home and you go, I wish I said that. I wish I had this. You never do that about a text. The text, you go, you say exactly how you want to say it, the way you want to say it. The reality is, and our podcasts, we always say we want to make you a better buyer. We're not going to fix dating. I get put in the position of speaking for men, and it sounds very icky.

I'm letting you know exactly what a man is feeling because I'm 10% away from the guy you're dating. So I'm telling you what's going on in his head. It's up to you to, like, take that information and do the best you can and waste less time. Yeah. So this goes to like the texting and chat GBT and like, listen, if you want to blame chat GBT for your relationship problems, you're, it's just the truth because right now you're texting with someone who's Googling the movie that you said you loved. Yeah, or the quote that you said that they didn't fully understand.

Right. They've been doing that since day one. Send me a movie quote that makes you laugh every time. If you had none off the top of your head but you thought they were hot, I'll go find a movie co-op. You know, like, that's just the, that's just how it's going, you know? So all this is to say, like chat GBT or someone Googling what to text you, you got to get in person. Right. Well, you've got to have a date. It's like the same advice that we have for the apps. It's like the apps and chat GBT. They're both tools. Should you be exclusively communicating with

chat GBT? Should you be exclusively only dating on the apps? No. Is it something you can use when it makes sense? Yeah. Right. Or at least to help. How quickly have you, realistically seen people move from the apps to an in-person date. How quick do you like it to be and how quick is it realistically? I hate when someone's trying to game the app. So if someone matches with me and they go, let's skip the small talk and go on a date, I don't want to date that person. That's my... Because? Because I don't want to waste my time out. We're on a dating app because that gets you the first few conversations that make you excited for the day. You're trying to Right. It's a verifying process. But when people say that, I'm like, what's the catch here?

This was so easy for you to go out. How much time? How much do you value your day? You don't value your day? Why would I want to go out with you? But the problem is someone always is going to come in and go, well, I hate pen pals. But that's not a good answer. That's the answer is nuanced and gray. If you're texting for six days before a plan is made, yeah, that's a lot long. That's too long for me. for you. For me. But like, I don't know what someone needs to feel safe. I don't know what someone needs to feel excited. You should feel safe and excited. That's the two rules I would give to someone to go on a first day. Do you feel safe? Are you excited? Yeah. And so however long that takes. How long does that take? That's, that's, that's, that's, that's not up to me to say. That person saw you and felt safe and excited in that way. Or they wanted to screw me over and steal my, you know, my identity. I don't know. He felt safe and excited, but not you. Yeah.

Can you pay for my oil change? Right. We've gotten that. We've gotten that, you know, on an... Really? We've gotten messages where, you know, the guy says, I'm so excited to, you know, I had such a great time. I'd love to go out again.

And then the woman replies, me too. Would you mind paying for my oil chain? Right. You're going to meet crazies, you know? Like, this is what happens. You put yourself out there. You've got to play in traffic. You don't want to get hit.

And sometimes you get hit by a weirdo. Yeah. You know, so... But that's a good story. You know, you've lived. Right. Exactly. It's a little tale.

Yeah, it's a great story. But dating, the idea of like, when should you, how should you? We are not here to say. Like, I think that if anyone's trying to tell you there are four rules for dating or, you know, you should never this, I think they're trying to sell a book. You know, we did this to make light and have fun about a subject that dating for some people, they're killing it everywhere else. And this is the hardest thing in their life. That's crazy. And I, when I first started talking about dating, like, as a guy, I didn't realize the gravity of it for some people.

For me, it was always fun. And, I mean, that should tell every woman out there. Like, every guy is, like, they just think it's fun. They don't think it's the most, like, it's as serious as maybe you're coming at it. This isn't every conversation they're having. This isn't podcasts they're listening to. So, again, like, when I first started doing this, you go, oh, this is, like, hilarious. Like, oh, let me hear your dating problems.

And then you start meeting people and you're like, oh, shit. Like, this is, like, real stuff. Yeah. You know, like, it is, they're doing great in their career. their friends, their family, and then they're like, what, what's going on here? How is this happening? Yeah. So, I don't know.

How are you feeling about Jared's dating left? How am I feeling? Yeah. What's my problem? As his friend. No, no, maybe not a problem. Jared, I mean, like a lot of the men out there that, that we talked about earlier, like, has a lot of options.

And sometimes I think that's almost like a lot of the issue with today's dating world is that, yeah, especially for men who aren't, you know. Successful men. Right. Successful high. High value man. No, I'm joking, but like, I'm not. I'd like to be doing better.

Please follow me on Instagram. I'd like to be doing better. Yeah. No, I think, I mean, I think people don't want to talk about this because it feels icky and it feels unfair. But I think that women are a lot of the time, they're constrained by one, societal norms of that they should be, they're more pressure to settle down earlier. And two biological realities is that in that the older you are as a woman, the harder it is to have children. And so I think that there's, there is a free. that men have where they're not constantly thinking about dating against that that time frame.

And again, it feels like in a key conversation. It feels like something that shouldn't be true, but it is true. So I think that men do have more options and in a lot of ways, especially if you're like doing well in your career and you're in a city like New York, let's say. And so I think that sometimes you can be a little paralyzed by choice. And men will end things before the next step. you know men will go this is okay but i don't know if i want to go through the work like i'll say men me i'll speak for myself i have ended things before the next step because i'm like is this the next place of like am i ready for this next phase of life it's not about the relationship it's about do i want to do the work do i want the responsibility and i have a lot

of envy and high regard for people in serious relationships like that takes a lot of confidence It takes a lot of, like, stress and work that I have gone against. I've said, well, I'm going to put my life into, you know, stand up in comedy and, you know, my work, which is an easy excuse for me. Yeah. I also, it's my avoidance of, like, this next thing of life that first few months of dating, you can be, you're all potential. You know, you get past that, you're living in the reality of who you are. And, like, I think that's what a lot of men do. deal with is like, I'd rather be potential than the reality. Yeah, and deal with the reality.

Is it the reality or isn't then commitment? Commitment is reality. I, like, commitment, like, I think it's commitment to, like, the broader thing. Like, to me, when I think of, like, the next step in relationship, I'm like, it's everything. It's house, it's family, it's kids. You know, like, it gets way farther ahead than maybe women think we're thinking. I hear you on that. Like, that resonates with me. It's one of the reasons why we have. when I had kids yet, was because I was excited to be with my wife to get married. Right. But my career took over and then my wife's career took over.

And that was, so it's weird how you can have that at different phases. So I can relate to what you're saying. Yeah. On the children level, we're like, I want to have kids for sure. But, I mean, we've been together now for 12 years and married for nine. And for me, the focus was I'm getting to build and I'm doing what I love. And I don't want to end up feeling like I'm not paying attention to, this young beautiful child

that I brought into the world and I'll do it when I can and I feel like that's a very feels like a very masculine trait and so you're feeling the same I can like the way you're talking I'm like I can relate to everything you're saying it's just I'm married

that's the only I've taken on that commitment I feel good about that one and we're around the same age I think like there's good and bad to everything as we said before like our parents like that may have gotten married young you go well I would never do that for me

and they had kids young And then we kind of were given the ability to like push those things off. And again, there's positive to that. You get to build your career, but then you get so precious with your life that you're like almost, you become too picky, too choosy, too precious with doing, walking forward. And what a lot of men will do, like women will break up after they've tried again and again. Yeah. Men will break up before the next step. And that's why a lot of men have the one that got away.

You don't hear from women with the one that got away a lot. You hear from men, oh, I could have been married to her. I could have been married to her. I've said that about many people I've dated. And that's why it's like, you know, it's funny when you see these TikToks that are so angry and so the negativity I talked about in the beginning. It's not as personal as it looks the way they're talking about it, even though it's personal to them. Like I know from the male side, it's never been that someone's not worth it

or not enough or not, you know, someone that I could have been with. It was always my own. I was thinking, you know, there's a, Tony Kornheiser's a writer. I've heard him say this line, the key of me. We all live in the key of me. You know, when you write a story, you write it about yourself. So it's like, I think what a lot of men are going through is the key of me, and it's not as personal to the women that are feeling like, oh, they have so much choice.

Or I wasn't hot enough. You thought he could do better. I thought he could do better. That was always fraudulent to me. I've never heard it that well articulated. That's really interesting to hear. I'm saying I'm a well articulated person. My mom says that all the time.

No. No, I mean that. I mean that. I don't think I've heard it put that way before, and I can resonate with it so strongly at different ways in my life. Right. I think, right. It's a very...

It's an ideology that I get. Yeah. And it's for all levels of life. I mean, you talk about kids, you know. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think that's just a man's mind is like, yeah, if you talk to me about kids at 30, I would have been so scared.

Right. Like, I would have just be like, oh, my God, I don't think I could be a dad, right? Like, that's how I genuinely felt. Right. Whereas now I'm 37, I think about kids a lot. Right. That's just a shift that I've been through in my own mind, you know, where at one point, if you asked me, I'd have been like, yeah, I'd be fine without them. And now it's like it's a part of something that I want. And it's such a, whether it's age, maturity, biology, finances, I don't know. But there is a sense of that feeling of, yeah, it's not really about the other person. I've always known my wife would be make an amazing mom. That's like not even

the conversation. Well, we get so many emails that are like, he ended it and I wasn't looking to get married. That's always the response. Women were writing, it's not like I said, I wanted to get married. And it's like, it's really, you know, kind of like demeaning towards the men they're dating because a lot of women don't think that men have the emotional intelligence to like, think that far ahead. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. And back to our episode. I don't know if it's demeaning.

I think women are like, why don't you just give this a chance? Right. Why don't we see where it can go and we don't have to get, like, pressure on? Yes. Why don't we like, a woman who's dating a man for three months and he'll break up before they're like in a relationship. And I think there's this frustration of like, I'm not asking you to marry me right

and to commit to forever right now, but why can't you keep dating? me or like really really fully commit i guess it's demeaning to both sides he's thinking way far ahead right way farther ahead than she would even imagine and he's also not trusting her to be able to be told that like he's ending it you know i i i she'll be okay if they date for three years and then don't get married right yeah and i so goes both ways they're not giving each other enough credit right right we're not giving each other enough credit that oh wait he's actually thinking 25 years from now. Right.

And we're not trusting that she's confident enough to handle a breakup in five years. Again, both sides of that equation I feel bad for. Like if someone got dumped after five years and never got married thought they were, I'd be like,

yeah, that sucks. Right, but women have agency too. And I think you see a lot of those stories and you don't get the other side, which is also that like, yeah, if you're dating someone for five years and you've been looking to get married and they're not married,

you can leave also at any time. Right. And that's the credit you're not giving the woman. Right. Of that, like, if you're not giving her what she wants, she can leave. Right. Yeah. Fair.

Yeah. It's so interesting, right? Like, what you're both doing, which I really appreciate is, it's almost like, if we were able to verbalize this stuff for the person that we're talking to, right? Much harder. It's so much harder, but it would transform everything because you'd actually be able to hear someone's heart. Like, you'd actually be able to hear it and go, wow, I didn't realize you were even looking at it from that really thoughtful perspective. I always have so much.

joy when a couple says they listen to our podcast together because I know what you're saying is so true this is all easy for us to say from the sidelines it is so easy for us to say this is simple oh I can give advice on everyone else's relationship I know exactly what I should do when I'm in it I'm like um blah blah blah I'm a bumbling idiot but when I hear a couple listens to our podcast together I'm like we're talking for them like it's almost easier to listen than it is to like put these into words. And I'm like, man, they must be doing okay. Like, not to give ourselves too much credit. But I don't even think it's... Well, they're having these conversations. And kind of like what we said before is, like, I do think when women break up with men, they're like, please change,

please change. And then they don't change. And then finally they break up with them. And I think a lot of men are maybe more than women afraid to have a lot of these conversations. And so are kind of just like secretly thinking about like if they should leave. And then women always feel like they're blindsided. That's true. That's true. Yeah. Men are thinking about for six months before I do anything. Yes, and the woman is like, what do you mean? Yeah, and you've done those were perfect. Right, because any woman that breaks up with her boyfriend will tell you,

and I kept asking him not to stop getting drunk, and I kept asking him to stop doing this and this and this, and he just wouldn't change, and I really wanted it to work, and you just don't really hear that from men when they're breaking out of the people. No, no, no, no, it just wasn't working. And no one ever asked me after a break of what happened. Yeah. No one's ever, right, Jordana does.

But generally, like my male friends, They're just like high-fiving me on the way to a dating app. Yeah. You know, like, and if I had to explain what happened, it would just sound like I just gave up, you know, like, which isn't, you know, something I'm proud of, you know, but it's not something I ever have to really deal with. So would you say you're not looking for a long-term, committed, loving relationship?

No, I am. That's the crazy. Wait, now you're confusing me. No, no, I am, but I'm, you know, I'm afraid of it being... What are you afraid about? If I was to be really... honest about it. I'm afraid of making my choice as someone else's problem. Or are you afraid of making the wrong

choice? Right. Also. And then you make the wrong choice, well, you make the wrong choice with the wrong person. Right. But I do think I know my taste enough at this point to know who I get along with. And again, like, I think a lot of guys, I'm not a soulmate guy. I'm not a soulmate guy. I don't

think, I just think you can make it work with like a lot of people. I agree with that. But they all are very similar types. You know, similar type of personality and thinking and worldview, those types of things. But I do think, you know, I blame stand-up and doing comedy, you know, and the career I chose, but that's not, you know, that's not a really good reason. But I do think the fear of, like, you are someone else has, like, if I fail, I fail on my own.

Like, that's really easy for me. Like, I can sit at home and bury myself in it. I give a lot of credit to, like, you're married and you're starting. a business or you're doing things, and you've got kids that you've got to, like, talk to and they go, what happened? You know, the kids asked what happened? Are you kidding me? I can't even imagine. What happened with the big deal? You know, we didn't get it? Like, what do you say to a kid? I don't know. It's scary. And I think, I think you, you mentioned something a lot that a lot of men feel, but maybe don't articulate, is that it is much more, like, their ability to commit

is a lot more tied to how secure they feel financially, how secure they feel in their careers. I don't think, I think, obviously women care about their careers and how they're doing financially, but I don't think, I think most women will say I can date in any phase of my career trajectory. I don't need to be established in order to get married. I don't need to be established in order to have children. I think men are much more like I cannot fully go there unless I feel like I could take care of a family. Right. And if we go back to that high value, do she conversation, like what makes a guy high value is like career established, safe. Providing. Providing, you know, like in doing okay. I think that's why we talk about dating as vulnerably and as honestly. That's what this is right now. And I think people listening like when we talk about dating is like I like when I hear people just say, oh, good, like I'm not sitting here alone. Yeah, yeah. Dealing with that.

But like, no, long-term relationship. Yeah, I'm looking for that. But I'm also like, I feel a little delusional even saying that. I was in Australia. I just did shows in Australia. And I went to the Great Barrier Reef. I did like the snorkeling at the, I'm not a snorkeler, I don't know, I was just like, they were like, do you want to go snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef? And I'm like, how am I going to say no to that? Like I'm, no, I'd like to sit at the hotel and sit on my phone. Like I can't, I have to do this. This is so on a bucket list item. So I took a boat like an hour away and we got to the reef and I started snorkeling and the mask kept coming off my face and I was like miserable. Then they give you all this lube and they say put it on your face. So now I got all this Vaseline. They give you all the Vaseline. And they put it on. in the face and I finally get the thing on and I start looking at the fish and I remember thinking

like 10 minutes into this. I'm going, is this is this is the Great Barrier Reef? And then I'm like, thinking is, but I'm by myself and I'm like looking at this reef and I'm like, shouldn't I see a shark or some turtle eat something? You know, like I, and then we got back on the boat and I was just sitting alone on the boat and I'm like, man, I guess this is why people have relationships. Like someone to go to the Great Barrier Reef and say how horrible it was. and go man that sucked right like you just want to go oh my god like and i again i'm sure someone gets a lot of value from seeing the great barrier roof but like you know again like this is old school shit i'm not saying i'm saying anything that dr seuss didn't say you know like it's

who you spend the time with and who you get to complain about with and i think i like i remember after that trip to austral i was like i'm not i think i told you i was like i'm not going never going to the great barrier reef alone again right right i just remember being on that boat, just being like, what the hell am I? I was like, do people like this? Do, I don't know. I think people liked that they went with a partner and they were like, that sucked, right? That's how I felt watching Superman last week.

I'm trying to get all my friends to go watch it to just figure out whether I'm mad or not. It was the worst movie I've ever seen in my age. You hated it. I hated it. It was so bad. But it's that feeling of that I didn't go to my wife. I went with a couple of friends and they hated it too. But then the ratings are through the roof.

Right. And everyone else, I haven't, I don't know anyone. So when you go watch it, tell me about it. I saw it. What did you think? I liked it. Oh, we saw it 3D. I saw it in 3D, yeah, yeah.

I didn't like 3D. I thought 3D was a waste of money. I didn't get any of the comedy. I wasn't laughing. No. I didn't find the dog cute. Like, I didn't get it. The dog got annoying.

Yeah, I just didn't get it. I thought the dog got annoying. I didn't get the film. Are you a Superman fan? Yeah, I love Superman. You do? But like, I love the TV version with, um... Do you like Smallville?

No, not smallville is pretty good show. No, not Smallville. I felt that way. It's interesting. And Jordana, I wanted to ask you that with kind of like the opposite end of what we're talking about with Jared. Like, how long have you been married now? Almost four years.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, fine. And what have you, like, you've been building a business? Yeah. The business was fairly established at that point, I imagine. But like, what's that been like for you where almost all the things Jared's afraid of are things you've been doing?

What's that like in reality? I think in reality, it's like so much less scary than you think it is. I think the hardest part is like, especially for you, is like, is the feeling of like finality and commitment and like this is it. I'm making a choice. But I think nothing makes you feel like an adult more than like really making a choice. And I think being married is making that choice every day and saying, you know, I'm going to look at the positive aspects of what's going on here.

It doesn't mean like constantly being positive or never sharing something that's bothering you. But I think sort of what you were saying is like the magic of marriage is not necessarily all the good stuff that you're sharing together, but being able to like go through life and experience all the lows and all the highs. And then you really have like this full intertwined experience with someone. And they help you grow. They help you, you know, if they're the right person for you, their help, they're supporting you. And I think then for me, what was unique about meeting my husband as opposed to anyone else I ever dated is I just felt like this full, I felt so safe and so secure that I could build my career and I could go out there and I could like not be hyper focusing on finding the right

person because I felt like I had someone who was supportive and who wanted the best for me and that I could be fully myself with and like self-actualized and I think that you would have that totally too and of course someone to make fun of the barrier reef with yeah yeah to make fun to like also go through the negative reef as I call it yeah or to go through like the negative experiences or something horrible happens to you and you have someone who's seen that and they're also then when things are good they also they can appreciate that with you much more. Yeah, yeah.

It was really cool, though, because we started this podcast when Jordana was single and also just started dating her now, husband. So it was funny to like, when in the beginning of this show, like, how cool it was to like, it's funny when we first started like, you know, Jordana asking me questions that are like, so you could tell, like, this is kind of about my dating. Like, I'm on a third date, you know, like, what would you say to someone going on a third date with someone they kind of like and they think is a good guy. He listened to

the podcast at that time. I think he did, yeah. That's funny. Yeah. That is the weird. You have a dating podcast and you're like, the weird part is you're more honest on a podcast than you are than you can be with the people in your life. That might sound bad, but like you come on here. We're

talking. We're chit-chatting. And that's the beauty of a podcast. You get to like put in a headphone and just sit and be a fly on the wall. And yeah, there's like... That was a great part of being early dating and having you, I would basically, like, you could be like his mouthpiece almost for any fights we got into or anything, and you'd explain the side. And I would get it more because you do have like that very unique ability to sort of verbalize what men are

thinking or how they're thinking about things that sometimes you just don't come at things the same way. And that's really the source of most conflict in relationships is just having a totally different framework for how you see the world or how you would see a specific instance. And a lot of the times men and women are thinking about things really differently. Right. And, that's kind of been like the frustrating part about like the internet's evolution over the last like seven years of us doing this podcast is like there aren't a lot of male voices straight male voices in this space I'm not trying to like pat myself on the back but like I'm when I come on this podcast I am I'm telling you exactly how I feel and it sounds really icky as I said before

but like this is it like I'm not apologizing for it I'm just telling you. you and like the podcast has been great because you know Jordana's never been like well that's just you you're gross you know like like I am gross but I am speaking I'm within I'm not a hundred percent away from your boyfriend I'm 10% away at a max most of us are 10% away from each other so when we talk about stuff like and you see on the internet like there's no male voice to get back to the horrific stories you hear about dating from the female side and it's because a lot of the male side of this isn't really morally great. Well, it doesn't feel quite as wholesome as the intentions for women on dating hands.

The intentions for women on dating apps is I want to find the love of my life and hold hands when we're buried together dead. And nothing can be better than that. I'd just like to like how do you, you know, that doesn't sound great on the internet and you will find a million voices shouting you down. I'm here to be casual and just have a fun time and maybe if I meet someone great. We have so many people that ask about, and this is like, they'll ask about what men write or people write, what they write as what they're looking for. And it'll be like, I'm looking for a long-term relationship. I'm looking for short-term, but open to long. Before that option even exists, I would always say men are looking for short-term option for long. That's what all men

are looking for. The dream of this person waltzing into my life and making me not want anyone else. princess to us so you know when we get asked like oh what they wrote that they're looking for a long-term relationship but they ended it with me it's like yeah that is bullshit stop looking at what people you know what they're looking for the only thing you should trust on a dating app is i only want short term because that's them being honest every guy on there is open to long term but you know open to short but hoping for long and they believe it so you're not going to win that battle Hey, but you said you had long-term relationship written there. Oh, you're right, I guess we should be together now.

That's never going to happen. Yeah, and that doesn't sound great. No, of course not. That, yeah, I would make out with a bunch of chicks before I met the love of my life. That doesn't sound great, but that's how most men are going about this. It's really interesting when we think about it, even from my perspective, if we're 10% away. Yeah. My perspective has been so transformed, and I hear this from men who are married and have kids,

and so who are one step ahead of me in that journey. and even for me getting married was the best decision I ever made because it actually gave me more time, energy and space to do all the things I loved because as a young man

all I did was chase women and spend loads of time, money and energy on finding the right girl and all of a sudden I got all that time back so when you realize how much time I get back I have a buddy who's like all of a sudden into baking and I'm like, when did this happen?

He's like, I got a wife. I like to bake. It's like I'm like a better, version of myself and every and I remember speaking to like a lot of successful men and they were like the best if you look through history at the most successful and happy successful men I'm not just talking about financially just men who are happy and successful it was because they were committed to one woman because there's so much time and energy to build do be and be accepted I don't doubt that no no I'm not I'm not preaching to you no but I know no no I know you're not

because I've heard you talk about your wife on our podcast and you can tell like this is a partnership you guys are aiming for the same thing you seem on the same page just the way you talk about your relationship and when you see that and feel that you go yeah of course that's the better option than single but then you sit here and you go man i i i haven't really had that and that's the right because you're right it's not just anyone right it's the person that's mutually working on it with you as well and it's your point too you could i could have been with a lot of different people right I think I could have married a bunch of other people that dated, but it wouldn't have worked because either I would have lost enthusiasm and energy, well, they would have.

Whereas the only reason why this one's working is because both people are willing to put in that energy and that work and that time in a way that I don't think I would have had for anyone else. Like, you know, and that's the part that you're waiting for and that's important. Yeah. For sure. So I want to go to the final five before we do some segments with you. These questions have to be answered in one word to one sense.

maximum, but I'm going to change it for you guys. I'm going to change it for you guys because I don't want to do that. But we're going to be quick with it. Okay. Lightning rounds. So I'm going to give you a little bit of scenarios. So you've been on a few great dates, but you're always the one initiating. At what point does that stop being their style and start being assigned they're not prioritizing

you? As soon as you're turned off by that. Yeah. I think, you know. This is my answer. try this. If you're in a position, you're always making the plan and it doesn't, you're turned off by it. First of all, establish I'm turned off. I don't like that I keep making the plan. That's okay to admit. It's okay to say you're turned off. If you don't like making the plan,

if you don't mind making the plan, that's also okay. Right. Both are okay. But if you want the person you're texting with to make the plan and it would make you feel good, send this text. You ready? Hey, I'm really busy today. Would love to see you again. Make a plan and I'm in. Nice. I like that. There's no other answer to that than a plan. If there's other answers, they're not really looking to go out and hopefully you're turned off by that. Or they're not someone who makes plans and they're not for you.

Right. Yeah. Well, I said, I like great answers. That was very succinct. Both of you, that was good. All right, you matched on a dating app. You've had a great conversation, but they haven't responded in two days. How long do you wait before moving on?

Feeling it is the answer. So, like, that person felt it. I haven't heard from them in two days. Okay, what are you going to do about it? Hey, checking in would love to go out. Make a plan and I'm in. Right. Make a plan.

Positive and direction will get you everything you want in life. And my, with dating, if you're honest, you will feel dishonesty very quickly. Be positive. Hey, I've loved chit chatting with you. It's been a couple days. I'm around next week. Make a plan and I'm in. Make a plan and I'm in.

will set you free. It will truly. That's the one. It's such simple advice. Yeah. But I only give advice that would work on me. What would work on me? If someone I was texting with, but I was just getting the dopamine hit from their text and I didn't

want to go out with them if they were like, hey, make a plan and I'm in, time for me to go. Let me put on my hat. I'll be out the door. Yeah. Yeah. And if that doesn't work, if make a plan and I'm in doesn't work, you've saved your own time. You've saved your own mental energy, even thinking about it because you've thrown the ball in their court and now you can move on.

Right. Great. How do I navigate jealousy of friends' relationships and milestones when I feel stuck or behind? Remember that your friends are all liars and they're way up more unhappy than you think they are. No, they suck. How about that? No, I, your friends and the jealousy probably comes from a place of you assuming. I think if you went out for lunch with a friend that you'd feel jealous of, you'd feel really different after that lunch. I kind of tend to believe that. it that guy mode, FTG mode, where you're like, someone will be like, hey, have you met my friend Tim?

And I'm like, FTG right away. And then you meet them and you go, oh, they're a nice person and they're pretty cool. And so I think if you're feeling jealousy towards your friends in their relationships, go for lunch with them. I think that would be like a purposeful move. I have a slightly different take. Go ahead. Go ahead.

I think one, I think the feeling of jealousy is really like, that's a secondary emotion for what you're really feeling. And maybe what you're really feeling is like a loneliness thing. and I think it's okay to feel that. I think that tells you that's actually great because it gives you direction. You know what you want. So many people have no idea what they want.

So I think that's great. I think have lunch with your friends not to see how miserable they are. Maybe they are. Maybe they're miserable. Or maybe they have a great relationship and you can say, what was it about this person

that made them different? You can get inspired by them. I think you can change, like if we go back to the beginning of the episode, you can change your attitude. You can feel like more excited and kind of get like a, a tip from them. I think it's okay to feel

people are so afraid to say I feel jealous and I don't know why it feels like a very icky emotion but I think it's okay to feel jealous. Jealousy is like I know what I want. I want that now I can like really work to figure out how to get it.

All right. Good answers so far. That's all right this one. This person's not overly impressive to me but they're loyal and kind. Do I stay or do I go? I just always think of these things would I want that person saying that about me at our wedding? And I wouldn't want to be with that person. I don't want to be with someone who pities me,

someone who doesn't think. And again, if you're thinking they're not overly impressive, then you're probably very caught up on what other people think of your partner. And that's probably more of a message to you than it is to how they should be. So maybe you have to go and kind of like work that out and why are you thinking that way about your partner?

and you should I would I would want them to end it with me I'd be like I don't want to be thought of like a dog loyal that's what you that's how you talk about the dog right I mean I do agree I think that like usually I would admit I would ask myself what is overly impressive mean to me and what is that adding to my life and then I mean like again I think I part of dating especially as you get older is like figuring out what actually matters and some people call that settling and I think other people call that private prioritizing what's actually important. So I think I would dig deeper into overly impressive what that means to me, why I'm so interested in it, and what I think that's going to bring to a partnership.

Yeah, well said. All right. Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show, but I'm going to apply to dating and relationships. If you could create one dating law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Every time you say you're confused about something exchange the word confused for turned off so I'm confused they haven't text me back I'm turned off that they haven't text me back

that's great answer and being turned off doesn't mean it's over it's something to communicate to the person you're dating and that's an easy text to send from outside it's not easy to say on the inside but to say to someone hey I'm a little turned off that you haven't text me back

since our date and that's all you have to say because again I only give advice that works on me anytime a woman has told me they've been turned off by me it has motivated me take you impressed them

motivated me to like do either end it or be better yeah motivate you to some action make a move so so anytime someone says they're confused about something I've noticed that that's just their way of not telling us that they're turned off so take confused

switch it would turn off and then communicate that. Great advice. Do you know not finish? I think my mistake I used to make in dating, especially before starting this podcast, is wanting to be the person that someone likes and so set, like not stating your own needs in an effort to get the widest reach of people who are interested in you. But what I've learned is that when you express your needs, you save your own time and you find the better match for you sooner because your needs are your needs.

There's no such thing as a wrong need or a right need. It's what works for you. and the sooner you ask or express your need, the sooner you find out if someone's going to meet it, and the more time you save on your own. That's tough. To Donna, Jared, you guys are the best. Great advice, great insight.

Anyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you subscribe to you up if you haven't already. Make sure you cut this into all your clips for TikTok, for Instagram. Tag all three of us. I love seeing the stuff that resonates with you, the stuff that turned you off, the stuff that brought you to life. The things that you're practicing, I want to know who's doing the challenge with Jared.

Do it. It's helpful, and it'll make you feel, you'll feel refreshed very quickly. I will say that. You could do the challenge in a relationship. You're just, you know, put, you're, putting your, you're being more, you're, I'm being more social. Okay, all right. I didn't realize. I like the dinner one, yeah.

Make a plan with a couple. It really does. Yeah, it changes it. It changes things. Get off your phone. This challenge is get off your phone. It's a little bit. Yeah.

When I'm with someone else, I'm off my phone. I love it. Your dinner, Jared. You're the best. I hope you come back soon. Thank you. are awesome. I really hope you'll come back again. We've got a lot to want to talk about next time, but I would have kept you here for another hour if I could have. So I'm so grateful.

Thank you so much. You guys are awesome. You're the best, man. We really appreciate it. This is so great. Thank you so much for having us. If you love this episode, you're going to love my conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your ex and find true love in your relationships. People should be compassionate to themselves, but extend that compassion to your future self because truly extending your compassion to your future self is doing something that gives him or her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life. Ah, come on. Why is this taking so long?

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