On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Jay Sean: Master This Skill to Unblock Your Potential & Get to the Next Level in Your Creative Process

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

Is it possible to pivot and lean into our passions later on in adulthood? How can you successfully remain true to your identity while following different ventures? Today on the show we have Jay Sean, a renowned global artist whose impact on the music industry has been profound since his debut in 2003 with the groundbreaking album "Me Against Myself." Over the past two decades, Jay has contributed five studio albums, a standout greatest hits compilation, and a collection of engaging mixtapes. With an impressive career spanning 20 years, Jay has consistently demonstrated his musical prowess and fearlessness in embracing new creative challenges while remaining authentically connected to his artistic roots.  This episode is a masterclass in self-awareness. Jay provides practical insights into recognizing and embracing change, uncovering the secrets to thriving in transition, and forging a path that aligns with your core values. Tune in and get ready to be inspired, motivated, and equipped with the tools to shape your authentic success story. In this interview you’ll learn:  The importance of self-awareness How to let go of fear and embrace new things  Insights on how he has let go of self limiting beliefs How Jay has navigated the ups and downs of success  Balancing what has brought you success in the past while also leaning into your new passions  Remember that embracing new parts of you doesn’t mean you are letting go of yourself. It just means you are meeting different parts of you, growing and evolving.  In Love and Gratitude,  Jay Shetty  What We Discuss:  00:00 Intro  04:06  Jay shares insights into his upbringing, discussing the influence of his driven parents and their sacrifices.  12:15 The moment Jay knew he wanted to study medicine and pursue a musical career  18:27  When it clicked for him and changed the trajectory of his life 25:39 Dreams feeling within reach  35:14 The importance of not keeping yourself in a box  43:40 Lessons learned over the past 20 years 44:45 Why are you doing this? 53:30 Why staying true to himself has helped navigate challenges  58:30 The story of how Ride It came to be  01:01:46 The power of letting go of your ego and leaning into your curiosity  01:13:01 Letting Go of Former Identities  01:17:09 What we can learn from Rocky Balboa  01:19:31 Breaking free from a trapped identity  01:25:38 Conclusion Episode Resources: Jay Sean | Facebook Jay Sean | Instagram Jay Sean | TikTok See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's c-a-l-m.com forward slash J-a-y. For 40% off, calm your mind, change your life. I lost myself, even when I was behind the mic singing it. There was no smile on my face It was me against everyone else in the music industry Next guest is taking America by storm clocking up city huge hit Down down down down down I Would get my car and just cry because I was so lost and so scared.

Who else gets a major record deal and then walks away from it? Let's bring it back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments, and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me. The best selling author in the post. The number one health and wellness podcast. On purpose with Jay Shetty.

Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. The number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now, one of my favorite things about this platform is I get to sit down with friends who are change makers, incredible influencers, doing amazing things in the world,

but I have this behind the scenes friendship with them and I get to hang with them, I get to invite you all into a genuine, truthful conversation, a sincere conversation that we probably have had at dinners and when we're hanging out, but then we get to record it and share it with all of you. And today's guest is someone that I was a fan of ever since I was in my teens.

Like I remember when his first song that I discovered him through dropped and it literally felt like it changed culture for me and my friends. And we knew what we wanted to play, we knew what we wanted to listen to, we were sharing it with all our friends, and to watch his career from afar,

rising the way that it did, and the changes that he's made, the moves that he's made, was phenomenal for Little J, aged 14, and beyond that. I'm speaking about British Indian singer songwriter, Jay Sean, who emerged in the American pop music scene a decade ago with his Billboard Hot 100 No. 1 single down.

The pop music titan changed the game's state side for both Asian and UK acts alike, hitting historical strides and breaking down multiple doors as a solo artist. Jay was the first Asian artist in history to have a Billboard number one in America. He was also the first Asian and first British artist to have two simultaneous top 10 Billboard singles. Jay's also the first British and first Asian artist to have a Spanish language number one in America. Welcome to the show, my good friend,

and amazing human, Jay Sean. Bro, wow, thank you, man. I mean it. You are a beautiful introduction. I mean it, dude. I love that man. It's great to be here, brother. It's so. Wow, thank you, man. I mean it. I'm gonna be a beautiful introduction. I mean it, dude. I love that, man. It's great to be here, brother. It's so good to have you here, man.

And obviously, I got, I met you. So for everyone who doesn't know, and you probably don't know this, I met Jay the first week I moved, when I say Jay also, I'm now talking about Jay. You're not referring to myself. The first time I met you is the first week I moved to LA. Wow. Because I met Jeremy, who's you've been working with for a long time. I met you is the first week I moved to LA. Wow. Because I met Jeremy,

who's you've been working with for a long time. I love you Jeremy. And Jeremy introduced us. And this was in 2018. And I loved how genuine you were, how down to earth you were, like you're so easy to chat to you. Thank you bro. We hit it off right away and I wish you lived in LA still so we can hang out. the time. I know bro, I know. We keep talking about that right. But now it is, it's so lovely to be here with you bro. So proud of you and what you've done. You know what I mean?

I know that you have guests on and it's about them but you know what you've been doing, I've been watching everything, it's amazing. Makes you proud and you know obviously we're both from England, you know, both from what part of London were you from? North London. North London, okay so I was West London obviously, H you proud. Obviously, we're both from England, both from what part of London were you from? North London, okay. So I was West London, obviously, Houndslo. Southville, of course, first. Standard, as cliches against, for any Indian.

But it's not easy, right? Having these lofty dreams. And then being here in LA, which is literally the land of dreams. And broken dreams, let's be honest about that. There's people who have goals, but there's also broken dreams. So to be able to do what you're doing

and what I'm doing, it's really beautiful. So yeah, thank you for having me, man. Yeah, man. Let's start there, because I think, I find it really interesting. I won't point in my life. I think I had big dreams when I was a teenager, but I never actually believed the dreams could be real

because I didn't have role models, people I could see doing those things. Did you always have big dreams in a belief that your life could go down that way? You know, brother, one thing about me ever since I was a kid, I always wanted to, A, work my hardest, try my hardest,

and apply myself. I've been a very driven person ever since I was a kid, and I think really, and so is my brother, I have one brother in a group, and I think both of us have that, so we share that same quality, we're very, very highly driven people now, that comes solely from my parents,

it really does. My dad is a big, big dreamer, big dreamer bro. And I only found out recently, like when I started going into music and my brother went into film, that these were also my dad's dreams, but they were hidden. My dad always, you know, my dad used to write poetry.

And nobody ever knew it, but he ended up being a businessman and a very successful businessman. But seeing my dad's drive and my mom is super hard working as well, we were always inspired by that. Like, wow, how did dad do this? He had three factories.

They used to manufacture denim. They were like, top man and river island, all these places, they used to make all the jeans. And it came from nothing, came from just a vision. So that was them, but then also they put us into a private school. Now private school in England, as you know, it costs a lot of money. Now, I could have gone to a school in the area that I lived in, how's low, but it wasn't the most affluent area time. It wasn't the best school system at the time. So my parents wanted to be able to put us into an education system

where they felt like we could excel. And so they did. But that was a sacrifice. They didn't get to go on holidays every summer and go to Barbados and that money they invested into my brother. And I think because I saw that sacrifice, we always wanted to work hard. So we knew what they were doing. It was for us. But the school that we went to was, I think, and Latin America School. I have to shout them out because an incredible school because not only did you have to be smart to get in. So you had smart kids, but they weren't like,

oh, stuffy, I go to the Latin America and I don't do anything fun. No, it was creative. They were fun. We had so much of a laugh. And it was an all-boy school. and the reason I'm telling you that is we weren't getting dressed up during the day to impress girls. I wasn't doing my hair to impress girls. So how did you make friends? How did you become the popular one? Every almost smart. You had to have something.

You had to either be the funny guy or you had to be the athletic dude or you yet to be like the captain of the football team. So everybody excelled in a competitive way but like in a nice, friendly, competitive manner. So that has always been my nature to do well and to apply myself to whatever I do. And I think I've been like that my whole life. That's why I always, you know, I'm always doing different stuff, picking up different projects because if this is all we got, bro, you know, why not make the most of it? Do the things you enjoy and try to see how far you can get with them. Yeah, definitely. What was it like

having those conversations with your parents in those early days? Yeah. Because we've talked about a million times and every Indian has that pressure and even you know the other night I was at an event and it was the same thing where like Indian parents are talking about this idea of just like Dr. Lawyer and you know we've heard it a million times. Of course, of course. You were on that path. You were on that path to make your parents the proudest Indian parents of all time. And I think there are a lot of people who listen to this and even if they don't have an Indian upbringing, they may have an upbringing where their parents' expectations mean something.

Absolutely. And their parents' expectations are important to them because they love their parents and they see their sacrifice. A lot of people who are listening, maybe thinking, my parents work so hard, I look ungrateful if I follow my dreams. What was that like? Absolutely.

Listen, that's such a good point, Jay, because I, of course, I get asked that question a lot right. And some people might not know, you're right, I was on my path to being a doctor. It's not just necessarily an Asian thing. We can really break this down because as a parent now myself, I understand what it's like to want the best for your kids. You want them not to struggle. You want them to have a profession. You don't want them to be like, oh yeah, you know, I have this dream. I want to be an art painter and this

thing. You're like, that's great. I love that. But I also don't want you to struggle for money. So you don't have to be an Asian parent to want your kids to do well in school job. But the Asian thing, the reason it's a stereotype, I think, personally, is because we were immigrants. So you don't have to be an Asian parent to want your kids to do well in school job. But the Asian thing, the reason it's a stereotype, I think, personally, is because we were immigrants. So therefore, you can come with a dream, and you couldn't come on a ship from India, come to England and go, hmm,

I want to be a professional gymnast. They were like, what's shut up, bro? You just left the bend, you've left the village, you need to earn money. So our grandparents didn't get to have a lofty dream. They just had to work hard. They had to work two jobs sometimes, three jobs to put food on the table.

So then therefore that also gets passed down to their kids. But with my particular situation, the medicine wasn't my parents' dream for me. It was actually mine. I was a super nerd in school, bro. I loved getting straight eight grades. I loved working hard and then seeing the fruit of my labor.

So when I used to get those top grades, it made me feel like I'd achieved something. And it wasn't like, oh, my mom and dad will be happy. I knew they'd be happy as well, but it was like, I'm happy for myself. I worked hard for this, right? So I actually got fascinated with science, still am, completely and utterly fascinated with the human mind

and the human body. So before I did medicine, actually, bro, not many people know this, I think you might be the first person who knows this. I actually did a degree in a combined science degree in psychology and biology. I didn't know that, yeah. Right.

So I did a degree in psychology and biology. I didn't know that, yeah. Right. So I did a degree in psychology and biology, bachelor of science. I fully enjoyed it. And then I was thinking I'm going to go on to perhaps become a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I wanted to help people. I wanted to get in. There was always been my thing. Ended up applying for medicine and did two years of medicine, but like anybody, you have hobbies. My hobby was music. So I was probably about 12 or 13 years old when I got obsessed with hip hop. I couldn't give it up.

I was writing wraps at the age of 13 because I was watching these rappers from, do you remember, I don't know if you remember this, probably you've gone and I'll show my age here. Yo MTV wraps, okay, used to be, because in England, growing up in England, we didn't have access, a, of course, we didn't have the internet back then,

we didn't have access to all of these hip-hop shows. So we had this cable show on MTV, and it would come on, and it was called Yo MTV Raps, with Ed Lover and Dr. Dre. I had MTV bass. Well they got a Nelson right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

And Westwood. Yeah, Westwood. Westwood, all of that. Obviously I'm going completely off top of it. Do it. I want you to. But yeah, like point being, you know, that applying yourself and the working hard and all that stuff, it was anything I took an interest in, I would take it to the extreme.

So science, work, academia, interested in it, wanna do well, took it to the extreme. Let's go. One degree, all right, no, but I wanna do this too. And in my head, there was nothing saying, you can't do that. There was nothing saying, you don't need a degree, bro. Chill now, go get a job.

I was like, no, but I'm also wanna do this. And I think I've always been like that my whole life. So there I am studying medicine, but I also want us for some weird reason, go on stage and wrap. And that was a wrap of then. Yeah. That wasn't a singer.

Yeah. Anyway, so I've always been juggling, bro. I've always been juggling things that I'm passionate about. What's been something that you think you've taken to the extreme more recently? Or is that mindset still there or has that changed as time's gone on? So it's not necessarily taking things to an extreme recently, but I have really been interested in being, you know, the entrepreneur side of the entertainment industry. And it's for a number of reasons, okay?

First of all, being an artist, this is gonna, like next year is gonna be 20 years of me being an artist. That's amazing and it's cool, but it doesn't have to be everything I do for the rest of my life. I've been so blessed to be able to do music. Literally, if you think about my job,

I write songs, then I sing songs. And I go around the world and I travel and I try to make people happy when I'm performing my music. But that doesn't mean I don't have other interests. It doesn't mean that I'm like, for example, I love restaurants and bars. I love them. Anytime I go to a different city,

first thing I do, either before or after my show, where can we go, where do the locals go and eat, what's the local cuisine here, where should I go and sample this city so that I can get to say, I went to Milan and I knew what that felt like. So then I was like, my dream was always like, I want my own restaurant. I want my own bar.

So then I did that, you know, set up an Indian restaurant called Nama and a bar called Switch. And that was fun because it allowed me to use a different side of my brain space and all of a sudden now making entrepreneurial decisions, which I never really got to do through music because it's a different field. So I like, so you know, and we have the yoga studio that you know, my wife Tara, owns and runs. So all of these things keep life interesting for me. And I think that's the thing.

I wanna do as much as I can and enjoy it and see where I can take it. But it doesn't mean you try to do everything because you don't wanna be a jack of, a jack of all trades master with none. It's just what fills me. And so that, I think that the recently that you've been the entrepreneurial stuff. Yeah, that's awesome. What has been like, you spoke about earlier, like breaking that stereotype

of it's not only, you know, Asian families want their kids to like, you know, be taking care of and do well. In the music industry, walk me through what that was like, because I think, even as a British Indian and an Asian South Asian person, I don't think we necessarily know what it was like because I think when you grow up in England, especially in London and around the, I mean, to be honest, all across England, Indian culture is very accessible. Yeah, of course. It's normalized. It's everywhere. Yeah. And then coming to the US, I don't believe when you did that, it was like that as far as I know. And what did you feel you were working with?

What were you excited about? What did you come up against that you were trying to make sense of? Because I think there's a lot of people even right now. I think everyone in different cultures, different traditions, different trajectories, has to face some form of resistance, some form of stereotypes, some form of opposition.

And I've always appreciated your way of navigating these things because I don't think you look at it. It's like, oh my god, everyone's against me. I don't think you lived life that way. Walk us through what's, what goes through your mind. Yeah, of course, man. So I guess we should really just take it right back to the beginning, right? So to answer that question, you know, I'm there. I'm a student. I'm a medical student. I'm obsessed with hip-hop still. I'm obsessed with music. My love for hip-hop would also like then gone into R&B as well because they were sort of hand in hand by then. The good times.

Yeah, good-bye. I just saw Aisha live in Vegas. Oh, did you? Yeah, I love that. It's, you know, it's, again, I'm like, oh, the brother, there's so much that we can talk about about these things because you say that and he took you back to a, he literally transported you back to a period of your life. Yeah, 16, 16. Yeah.

And what do we, what do the stresses when we were 16? Nothing, passing our exams. Get doing well in our GCSEs. Everything else was childhood. It was, it was big dreams. It was your fearless. You can take on the world. You want to do anything and everything and life is just good You had music was great then and just you know vibes were there, right and and that's what I was experiencing

I was I was listening to you know all of that same kind of stuff usher and and you know and jagged edge and blackstreet and all that stuff and And I used to think to myself every time we went out and we'd go out clubbing with my friends and stuff, it would always be especially in London as you know this, quite a heavy Indian demographic. Well, I should say just like a, you know, an Asian demographic. What we call Asian in England, they call South Asian here.

Yeah, times of us in all these clubs, we go to concerts. I'd go and see Fuji's in concert, or I'd go and see, you know, Dasifex, I'd go and see Lords of the Underground, all of these people, still a bunch of, evasions there. And at that time I had started writing,

and you know, I had a friend of mine who's a DJ, and we used to make these mixed tapes, me and my cousin, and we used to make mixed tapes, just for our own fun. And then our friends would be like, actually that's pretty sick. Like, can you make these mix tapes, me and my cousin, and we used to make mix tapes just for our own fun. And then our friends would be like, actually that's pretty sick. Like, can you make me a copy, find me getting a copy,

make, and all of a sudden it was kind of spreading around school and then that Trubby, nerdy Indian kid became cool at all of a sudden in school. And that felt nice, but that was just in school. It wasn't happening on a sudden in school. And that felt nice. But that was just in school. It wasn't happening on a major level anywhere. There was no Asian mainstream artist on stage

that we could go and watch, who would sing and all rap the music that we love. So we would go there and I'm like, I'd be at an Asha concert and I'm watching him and I'm watching tons of Asian scream for Asha. and I'm watching him and I'm watching tons of Asian scream For Asha and I'm I'm there. I'm in the mosh pit But I'm going why isn't One of us up there. We clearly love this music

If we can listen to this music and we can buy this music Why can't we make this music? Why can't we be the one up there on stage? And I think when that click switched for me, that changed everything. Because again, talking about how I just thought nothing was impossible, I said, what I'm gonna do that? Why can't I? Okay, how do I do that? All right, I'll enter talent competitions.

So I did. And I'm simultaneously studying. But then I'll be listening to choice FM at the time it was choice I love to see them. Yeah, yeah, right? 107.1 or something like that right and nice 6.9 I think it was nice It was both I think it was one of those ones. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah exactly so anyway, I'll be listening to choice FM and There was this talent competition and it was called Commander B's Night Flight.

Okay? He's around about midnight and all you have to do, you have to pick up the phone, spit your best verse or sing. At the time I was just a rapper, right? It was obsessed with hip hop. So I said, all right, well, I've got to lose. Pick up the phone, dropped a little rhyme. You either get flushed, you got the toilet flush sound or you get passed

on to the next round. I got through. Eventually they chose the top 100 in the country and then that 100 was put down to was cut down to the final 20. Then the final 20 had to perform live in Brickston Academy. Okay. That was my first time on stage ever. And when I looked around, Jay, I'm not lying to you, I was the only, only non-black, non-white person in that room. And I didn't think about it at the time because you're not going, you're not,

you're not looking at it at that. You just got the mic in your hand, you've got an opportunity, and you're going, this is amazing. How did I even get here? This is so fun. It was fun. But just got the mic in your hand, you've got an opportunity and you're going, this is amazing. How did I even get here? This is so fun. It was fun. But now looking back, I was like,

I was the only Asian kid. And it didn't scare me. And so therefore, I just did what I loved and I did it without fear. And I ended up coming third in the whole competition. And that's what gave me the confidence to know that I can, I think I can take this somewhere.

How did you have that courage and guts at that age? And I guess it's part of that extreme focus mentality, but like, I feel like today I have so many people in my life that I know that are scared of posting on TikTok or posting on Instagram or putting out like for you to like drop that verse on a phone call, you know other people are gonna hear it, other people are gonna find out about it. When you're on stage, of course, you're laid bare in front of all the audience, I think so many people today get in their heads

and they're like, well, I can't post that. I look stupid, I can't do that. I'm not good enough. And even people who are really talented stop themselves from putting things out there because they're scared of what their friends will say. I remember when I posted my first video, it was the people closest to me that criticized it.

Or ridiculed it. It wasn't the audience. The audience actually responded fairly well for day one. But it was the people around me that said, J.U. Talk to you fast. J.E. that point didn't make sense. J.U. editing is not as good as it should be. That was coming from people I knew, whereas the comments were like,

oh, I love this. I just shared this with a friend. And so I feel so many people have that block. What was it for you that gave you that courage to say, this is fun, I love that idea. This is fun, I'm doing what I love, and I actually don't care. How did you have that then? I didn't care.

And you're right, you know, the reason why I didn't care back then, because in order to find out somebody's opinion, they had to actually be in front of you and talk to you about it in person. Now we live in a day and age where we've got connection with every single human being on the planet. We're not built like that, bro.

Where our brains are not built to have that many connections with that many people, we're just not built like that. That's why we get anxiety. That's why we get, because we know that, I post this, it's to go out to the world. And then 99.9% of the people who react are people I don't know. And I have to take their criticism on board. But we want Bill to be able to deal with that. We just not designed to be able to deal with that much. So therefore, of course,

it overwhelms us. Of course, it gives us anxiety. Of course we get depressed because user Z1599 said this about me. But we don't know that person. So when I was a kid, I just did what I did because I didn't have the opinions of too many people around me. And even if I did, like you said, and that's another great point. Often the people who are around you

might not have the courage to take a step out of the comfort zone like you did or I did. So therefore they're just like, oh no bro, or maybe it's love, maybe they're just like, I don't want you to be sad if someone says something about you. I don't want you to be hurt if it doesn't work out. I just loved it. That's the only truth of it all is when I tell you that it was an obsession, Jay.

I was obsessed with hip hop and an army but not just the culture, the technique. So if I was to really break it down, obsessed with the fast rappers of that time. That's what it was. I was obsessed with Big L. I was obsessed with Chipfruit from Food Stickers. I was obsessed with Jay-Z, with the original flavor. The way that they would rhyme, it was very, very fast. And that to me was just so cool at the age of 14. How are you rapping that fast?

So I would emulate it. And I would try to do what they were doing I was like, damn, how did they do that? So it became like this nerdy obsession and then when it came to singers It was vocless. How are you singing like that? How are you doing those runs? How are you doing those riffs? So I would study them. I would study boys to men. I would study all these guys and copy their riffs and copy And that's how I sort of learn how to rap and how to sing by literally just admiring these people who had such a great skill set. Yeah, yeah. And so therefore, when I learned how to do it for myself,

of course I wanted to just go and have a go at it. So why not go up there and have a go? And it wasn't because the end goal was gonna be a record deal. I didn't know, that wasn't thinking that far ahead. The end goal was, I love doing this. If you love football, you wanna kick a football around, you don't wanna just do it in your back garden.

If you get a chance to plan a big pitch, are you not going to go? Yeah. Right? I love that. The simplicity of their answer is beautiful, because I do think that it is love that carries you through. And I think today, it's almost the opposite.

It's the inverse, right? So at that time, we didn't have a lot of role models or people that look like you, or people like you that had made it. And I don't just mean that by race and gender and back. I just mean in general, in life, fame and success and careers like that were reserved for a few. They're only a finite number of TV channels, finite number of music artists, finite number of actors, all very mysterious and unreachable.

And you never knew how they got there. Today we live in the opposite where it's like all your friends are influences, everyone of actors, all very mysterious and unreachable. And you never knew how they got there. Today we live in the opposite where it's like, all your friends are influencers, everyone has 100 million friends. All of your friends are famous. Yeah, everyone's doing something interesting. You know, someone in your family, your network,

who's figured something out, like people are running businesses, there's entrepreneurs here, there's this and that, someone has a podcast, whatever. So now it's almost the inverse where it's like, now you see it happening so much that now you think it has to work out that way. So that time you just said, I never believe, I never even thought about record deal. Now when you start making music, all you think about is a record deal because it does feel within reach or it does feel like

someone else did it. And I fully agree with you. When I put out my first video, all I thought was, I love sharing this wisdom. I'm tired of just sharing it in small rooms of five people. I think the wisdom should reach more people. And I'm just trying to see if it works. But there wasn't, there wasn't a goal or a strategy or a whole approach. Like, one day it's going to be this and we're going to have this and we're going to build a media empire. Like it wasn't like that. It was just, I love love this and I actually don't know what else to do with this Mm-hmm apart from trying to share it. I'm Cheryl McCollum host of the Col. K's podcast zone seven Join us every Wednesday to hear cases like the Long Island serial killer here

Carrie Rossin daughter of the notorious serial killer BTK Way in on the accused Long Island serial killer's children. You show, like, genuine interest and you can't fake it, but these guys can see, like, right through to your soul. So you have to be, like, walled off, prepared. And if you don't know your stuff, they're going to just call you out and they're going to be like, nope, I'm talking to somebody else and not talking to you. Here great insight from one of New York City's finest detective Joe Jacolone, a Col. K. Secksburg. You know, as well as I do, cops weren't even aware of it back then. So they're going to have some difficulty putting those cases together, unless, of course, he confesses.

Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Yes, yes, the street stoic podcast is back. One of the quotes that came to mind here is from Drake. The lyrics that came up for me was from Beyonce. I pulled a quote from just one of my favorite artists in general, Kid Tuddy. We are combining hip-hop lyrics and quotes from some of the greatest, to ever grace a microphone in it.

He says, because it's just waves. Gotta just float, float, and have faith. It's just waves. It's the line that we've all heard before for Lauren Hill. And she says, don't be a hard rock when you really are. A jam. Along with ancient wisdom from some of the greatest philosophers of all time. Xenica, right? And he says, your mind will take shape of what you frequently hold in thought.

For the human spirit is colored by such impression. A stone quote from Epicetus, where he says, don't seek for everything to happen as you wish it would. But rather, wish that everything happens as it actually will. Then your life will flow well. And let's say I know we all could use a daily shot of inspiration. So this is the podcast for you. Listen to season two of the Street Stoke podcast as part of the Mike Bordard Podcast Network on the IHR app, Apple Podcasts or

the ambient get your podcast. Doctors, comedians and scientists, artists and athletes and people of faith in search of extreme happiness. The United States of America are cram champions of the world. At last, a podcast on a mission, a podcast that wonders what is joy. Is it love, religion, drugs, success, money, revenge? Is it a surge of chemicals or a deeper awakening? Can it be nurtured, cultivated and refined? Find out! As Craig Ferguson explores the countless ways people find joy.

The celebrations that dances the science, poetry, laughter, and music of joy. Don't miss it! Joy! With Craig Ferguson! Here it is! On the I-Hart Radio App Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts! I've always believed one thing, right? If I operate from a place of panic, desperation, just looking around competition, it won't work. It doesn't work for me because it's not true, it's not organic, it's not real, there is no actual substance in that product. It's not true. It's not organic. It's not real. There is no actual substance in that product. It's hollow. It's fake and people can see it. And I really believe in that. It sounds airy-fairy, but I believe in it. I know for a fact I have made songs just chasing hits. Just like, oh, that songwork, I went so far down that robo of trying to chase big pop hits. I lost myself. I lost, I

didn't even even when I was behind the mic singing it. There was no smile on my face because I knew you were writing songs for this climate and you got this guy talking in your ear. You need to do a song like this because so and so had another big oh we'll get the producer who did that. Oh we'll write this right with the songwriter who did that. I'm like, but I don't even like that music. Yeah, but that's all that's working right now. So you gotta do it. And there was no love in it. And guess what?

My fans could tell. They could tell. They're not stupid. They know the St. J. Showman. See, doing it. I see what he's doing. It's cool. I love him, so I let him do it.

But the St. J. St. J. that we loved. St. J. that we fell in love with. I see what he's doing. I see what he's doing. It's cool. I love him, so I let him do it, but it's St. J. St. J. St. J. that we loved. St. J. That we fell in love with. I see what he's doing. There's a pressure for him to do it. That's cool. We'll stand by him, but we'll wait for him to come back.

He'll find his way back, as I always do. But when it's not from a place I love, and it's not from a place I passion, and it's not real, I feel like there's a metadata in that that people can feel, and that's always been the story of my life. That's beautiful, yeah, no, and it's great to have that connection to your audience, but when you start, obviously, like you said, I mean, I still remember when dance with you came out, and we used to wait for it to be played on Channel U,

and I'm trying to think of where else, but Channel U was my place back there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, remember Channel U and I'm trying to think of where else, but Channel U was my place back. I remember Channel U. And back in the day, this is again, A.J.M. A.J.M. You'd have to wait for the songs you'd love to come on to record them on VHS. So you'd record it and then you'd make your own VHS music videos. I'd have Usher, U, P.D.DD, Eminem, whatever else it is, and you're collecting all these people. And then now whenever your mates come over,

you put this video in and then you played that, or you're playing channel you in the background anyway. But it's like, I remember in dance with you, Kima, and for anyone who doesn't know it, if you didn't know Jay before the US world, like go back and check that video out, because I still think it's a, like it lands even today.

That's how good that song is. Thank you. And I can still bump in the car and it's awesome. But to me, it was such a moment for the culture because it was actually good music and it was actually cool too. And I think that that's hard to do as well. I think it's really hard when you're like,

trying to do something fresh and new and you're trying to own a sound or create a sound, but to actually do that is really challenging. So when you're at your best, most creative self, as you were just describing now, walk us through the more texture of that recipe of like, when you're really landing in that passion that love the excitement, as you said,

like walk us through it, when you're at your peak creativity, when it's truly authentic, what does that creative process look like? There's no thought. And that's what I always tell people. Making music is not a science. There will be people who tell you and listen, fine. Some people have had a very, very long successful career by methodically thinking, hmm, verse must be X amount of syllables and this melody works because this chord structure worked for the last 10 years, top 10 hits, this is the chord progression and cool, I'm not built that way, that's not how I make music. Amazing hats off to the people who can write hits like that, that's not how I

make music, I feel, I feel and I smile and I jump up and down in the studio when that song is done and if I'm feeding like that, might the one thing the rule I have is after I've written a song, if I am not so excited regardless of what time it is, it could be four in the morning, I could have had a 20 hour day, if I'm not excited enough to go behind that mic bro and sing that song right there that second. It ain't it. If I can say, I'll wait till tomorrow, then that means my fans can go, I'll wait till tomorrow to hear it.

You understand? They have options and the thing is, I go off of that excitement. So when dance with you happened, I met Rishi Rich who really, you know, responsible for just everything from the beginning of the genesis of my career, our work together. He heard something in me. He knew I wrapped, he knew what I sang. And what I had developed was a style of blending the two. So I would fast-wrap and sing, but sing it with a melody.

So because the rap for me was so alive, I didn't approach the beat the way that I would say perhaps if I was just a singer. So I actually wrote it as a rap. So girl, whatever told you, be thinkative, whatever possible, political ways to come and approach you. And so then I'd write those lyrics down, but then I put a melody, girl, whatever told you, be thinkative, whatever possible, political ways to come and approach you. And it was something that I don't think many people had heard before. But it was my style.

And had there been like a suit in the room, like an A&R, who had gone, hmm, you're way too fast. I don't know what you're saying. Slow it down. Too many words. This doesn't work. Who does this? Have you seen, give me an example of someone

who's had success with a song like this, with a verse like that? That's exactly why you should do it. That's exactly why I did it. It's because it is new, because it was fresh and because it was me, bro. It's me, you know? So when that landed on that song, I think a lot of the Asian kids in England grown up, if you're growing up in England, you're listening to probably R&B and hip hop,

which is very common for us at the time. That was the culture. That was kind of what we were into. And then your mom's watching some Indian drama or some Indian shark movie. So you got Bollywood, so you got like, beautiful Hindi melodies going on in the background. And if you're Punjabi like me, you're going to weddingss in their playing pangadarn Punjabi music and it's upbeat

Those were all of my musical influences So when I was in that room It was not foreign or weird or even contrived for Rishi and I To have first of all when Rishi put that Indian flute To me I wasn't like oh, that's Indian. I was like damn that's sick. That's a sick sample. That sounds amazing over a hip hop beat Pop on B chords It was something brand new But it was something it was all the music that we listened to

In one pot. Yeah, it wasn't like it wasn't like we're trying to create a new genre Yeah, we created a new genre by accident Yeah, because it was just the stuff that we were into so then when we did that Had written that song originally kind of left it there Richie was working with Jaggedy D. Obviously up on job be artist. He heard it. He was like this is sick Jump on a bruv. Yeah, he did his thing before you knew it, we had a song that no one had ever heard. And guess what? The people, the Asian culture at that time

had all of their favorite music on one song. You had Benjabi. You had hip hop and you had R&B. And you had this whole thing in three minutes of one song. And for the first time ever, I think by three at that time, young dudes. Because if you were like listening to different jubbi music, they were like uncle ages.

Do you know what I mean? You're listening to like, exactly. And you're listening to like Malki Singh, but he's like 50. All of a sudden you got these young girls and guys who were listening to people who look like them. Yeah, yeah. Doing this stuff, and that kind of, I think, was something that was brand new in it. I've said you got these young girls and guys who are listening to people who look like them. Doing this stuff and that kind of I think was something that was brand new and it just

changed the game man. No, I agree with that. Even when you see that and you artist, I remember the first time I ever heard a Drake song. Right. Early mix tapes. You were like, who's this guy who can sing and rap? And do his own thing. Now, I know that today, like, you know, Drake's gone on to just do hit after hit after hit and all the rest of it.

And I think sometimes he gets a hard time where people are like, oh yeah, he just makes good. And I'm like, well, if you think about it, when he started, he was probably the only like real rapper that also did that, like, was able to mix the two. And I've always loved his music, but to me as well, it was that same thing where it's like he was putting together two things that felt natural to him in his own way. Like he could sing really high notes and then put in like a rap verse.

I know hard on a beat. Yeah, exactly. You could do both. Yeah. And it was just exciting. To me, it's always been exciting when people are not kind of imprisoned and eliminated by a box. And it's what you're saying about even the entrepreneur and the musician in you and allowing yourself. Like, I think today we've become so much better at recognizing that people are multi-hyphenates. Like, you know that Rihanna can have a music career and be a fashion icon, right? You know that an actress can also have an amazing company. You know that.

Exactly. Ryan Reynolds can also sell an alcohol or whatever it may be. Right. There's so many different ways of doing that. You can own a football team like Rex. Exactly. Exactly. But in the beginning, you're like, no, you're an actor.

Just be an actor. Honor that. Do that. And sometimes, oh, actually, you do this role, you're only doing comedies. And then an acting could be like, dude, I know I'm good at comedy, but like, give me a drama, man. At least give me a shot.

Yeah, yeah. Let me show those skills, right? Yeah. So for me, it was always like, okay, I do music, but like, don't tell me, I can only do these records. I can only sing these kind of songs. I can only, these records. I can only sing these kind of songs. I can only sing. I can't bus into a rap randomly.

So that always confused me, because I was like hold on a second. This is my artistic expression. So surely it should just be, why on I had just allowed to do who I am. Because otherwise then it's not J Sean. It's J Sean with other people in his ear. Then it's not just Drake is Drake

with other people in his ear. So I think the reason why people fall in love with an artist is because that person has something unique to share with the world, right? You know, like if you're in a certain mood, you're gonna be like, man, oh no, man. I feel like I, I put on some Adele right now or something.

Why? Because you know what Adele offers. You know what her music, how it makes you feel. Yeah. Yeah. As opposed to just a random singer who's got a beautiful voice. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, no, you reminded me of when Matthew McConaughey came on the podcast, he talked about how he was known as the romcom guy. So he was doing how to lose a guy in 10 days, he was doing all those types of movies and he was amazing at it. It was like Ghost of Girlfriends past and like he was that guy. He was like the hot, hot, throb that, you know, that holds those movies. And he said he had to take a two-year break from making movies to shift

his brand to be able to do movies like The Lincoln Lawyer later on Dallas Pius Club, which you won the award for. And it's like he literally didn't make movies for two years. And he was getting paid like 15 million to do a rom-com. And he said for two years he didn't do anything because that was his brand. And he wanted to do more serious roles. He wanted to do roles that he cared about. And it took him saying no for two years. And that's a lot of like, you know, it's amazing to think that people who've made pivots in their career have had to kind of have these very like

interesting transition periods. What was it like? What's the biggest difference between the UK and the US music scene? Because I think you have that You know you have that as a unique experience. There's a few of you right there's you and then like more recently obviously that people are Ed Sheeran Adele like there's there's few people who've been able to be successful in both. I'll tell you a funny thing right? So obviously at the time pre-2009 I was lucky enough to have garnered myself a worldwide fan base, excluding, I thought excluding America.

I just thought, there's no way America knows my music. And that's because America has, let's be honest, they have the cremder like crem of everything. If you think of any of the biggest stars, they're usually American, whether they're Hollywood stars, you know, wherever you're Canadian. Now they're all from the specifically Toronto. So be brave. But at the time, so we're moving, that specific beach or onto the lake. So be brave. But at the time, so that's why when we were in London,

London is a small island. And so what happens is sometimes you can get, I refer to it as small island syndrome. You can walk around your little place and feel like the big shot, you know, yeah, man. I'm a daggling and bruv, people know me and hear me. Yeah, I'm less the bruv, people know me here. Boy, I don't, I'm a daggling and bruv. People know me and hear me. Yeah, I'm lest a bruv. People know me here. Boy, hey, don't, I'm a Scotland man.

People know me in Scotland, bruv. Okay, cool. That's amazing. And great. And if you can have a career there, and you're happy with it, that's great. I always, again, going back to me being a person who's highly driven.

I would always say, take me somewhere where no one knows me. I wanna win him over, take me somewhere where no one knows me. I wanna win them over. Take me somewhere. Take me anywhere where nobody knows me and let me see if I can win them over. And that has always been something that's very dear to me, even when it comes to shows. Any show, like you could do a corporate gig, right?

And they have it and it's like, people would be like, oh, they're waiting for the show. I'd be like, okay, cool. What's the demographic? This is XYZ. I don't then think, oh, they're wanting for the show. I'd be like, okay, cool. What's the demographic? This is XYZ. I don't then think, okay, I'm just gonna sing XYZ song. I go, how can I connect with them? What am I gonna be able to, what level?

And then, win them over so that then they can go, you know what, I didn't actually know Jay Sean before, or even like his music, but like the dude, I like the guy. I connected with him and he was fun on stage and he was funny and he was an endearing and then he actually rocked the crowd. And now on of a sudden you won him over. Yeah.

So when it came to America, I took that same approach. I was, I remember distinctly being at passport control and I was going to go and sign with cash money. That's why I was going over there. And it was a big day for me and I was super excited. I was like, I can't believe this man. I'm about to get a record deal in America. But I went knowing that if I don't succeed, at least I have everything else that I've worked hard for. And if I do succeed, man, that's only a bonus now. That's can only be even better.

But I'm excited, I'm big cast up, right? Of course, for him, I'm a part of it. I'm a part of it. Little way, right? It's like, oh my gosh, yeah. Big deal. Young money cash money, you're working at this light, yeah. Right.

So then I'm there at passport control. And the guy goes, you know, how they are in America, sometimes they're like, what is the purpose of your business? Oh gosh, I still get it every time. You get nervous in it. I get so nervous, man, I let so many years. And it's like, what is the purpose of your visit to the United States?

I was like, so here's me now, I look slightly cocky, I go, be honest with you mate, that's a sign of big record deal. And he goes, yeah? He goes, what's your name? And I go, Jason. And he goes, my happen heard of you. So now? And I go, J Sean. And he goes, I haven't heard of you. So now I know I've got work to do.

Right on my entry to this country, the good Lord has gone, relax me. Calm your ego. There's work to be done. And it was through that one guy, that immigration officer who looked me dead in the eye and said, so what, I haven't heard of you. And I thought, all right, let's do this.

That's what, that's what. It's always the immigration officers who don't recognize anyone, and I get the same thing every time. It's the best. It's so lovely. But I love that and bro, it humbled me in a split second. I'm not saying I had a big head either,

but if I was to be cocky about my venture in the United States, I learned right there and then, bro, prove yourself again. And that's what I had to do from scratch. Yeah. And it's such a great mindset to have because you could have had that interaction and gone, well, you should know me, right?

You could do that. Or you will know. Yeah, you will get cocky, right? Yeah, you will know me. And it's just, it's so interesting because I feel like that is just never a satisfying way to live. That's what I've discovered, like the idea of thinking you're at the top of the mountain

or that you're doing things, it's the same thing as you said earlier, like when you're making music from love, passion and excitement, I feel like if you're doing something because of revenge, because of proving someone wrong, because of I'll show you, because I'll see you at the top. Like when you do things with that energy, even if and when you make it, it never fulfills you, because that person may not have the reaction you want them to have. Right.

That person would still be like, yeah, don't listen to music. Or I don't like your music. Or when you go up to that guy and go, oh wait, did you hear me now? I'm number one billboard and they go, yeah, don't listen to music. I don't like your music. When you go up to that guy and go, oh wait, did you hear me now? I'm number one billboard and they go, yeah, my girlfriend didn't like it. Exactly. Yeah, it still doesn't, it won't feel you, bro. And it's a very, very good point.

And I think that it's such an important point. Because for me, 20 years of work, okay, what have I learned? What are my lessons? I've been around the world, we were calculating this, I've coming up to a million miles just on one airline. Wow. Just on one airline. So I've definitely done way more.

Must have been around the world 50 times, at least. 50. In terms of mileage, yeah. Easily. That means I have had experiences after experience, after experience, after experience, after experience, some amazing, some horrible. Some that can make you feel like you're on top of the world

and some that can pull you into a dark place and you don't even wanna talk to anyone, depressed, crying. So where's that safe place? Where's the place where you're just okay, man? I'm all right with this. I'm in this industry and it can either make me or break me or it can do neither. Or I can just have a great time while I'm here.

Make people happy. Do you shit that I love? Take care of my family and a good living. And it all comes down to exactly what we just said. Why are you doing this? If I was for the rest of my career only driven to write songs and perform and record to beat the big monster that is down, if that was my only incentive, gotta beat down, gotta beat down, gotta, gotta top that.

I am setting myself up for failure A and definitely a ton of anxiety, a ton of like bad feelings and feelings that just aren't on a vibe at all because I'm doing it all for the wrong reasons. If I then go, if I switch my mentality and go, man, how lucky for you, how blessed were you to be able to have written that beautiful unicorn of a song that makes so many people happy that really did break a lot of records and change your life, gave you a life, and

gave you a life. Put that in your back pocket and be grateful and say thank you. That was wicked. That was amazing. Now let's go on and write stuff that you enjoy, that you love, that perhaps your fans might connect to. But if I was to make the metric of my happiness, chart positions, comments, likes, followers, I'm setting myself up failure because I can't control any of those things. At all. The only thing I can control is the music that I write, the music that I record, the music I put into this world, the way I interact with people when I'm on stage and make them feel. Those are the things I can control. And so therefore, my happiness hopefully

will be in a safe place. You know, because I'm not pinning it, I'm not rooting it in something that is so out of my control. There's this quote that I heard that someone said that, you know, at one point I had to stop being a hit machine and go back to being an artist. And I loved that idea, but I feel every artist goes through this series of phases where you start as a pure artist. You start with pure creativity and pure passion. And then in the scaling of a business, of having team members or whatever it is, you become a hip machine, and you kind of try and, like you said, you try and like mathematically figure out the equation.

You may kind of have some hits, you may not have some hits, but you have this. And either way, whether you've had it or whether you haven't, you've become unfulfilled. And that's what happens. So externally, even if this person is having all the number ones, they're still feeling internally fulfilled

because it doesn't link back to that pure artistry that they started. Why do you started doing that? And then they try to go back there. Everyone goes back there. Everyone wants to go back there. Everyone goes back there. Everyone wants to go back there. Some people take 30 years. Some people do it in three years.

I've met people at both ends of the spectrum who they made stuff they hated for 30 years. Some people gave up after three years and said, you know what, I'm going back to doing what I love. And it's normal. Like it's normal for everyone to have that. So it's so true. It's so wonderful to hear you talk about it in that way,

because I think that we had regrouping here a few months ago, and he was saying the same thing. He was just like, you, he was saying the same thing. He used to say, he was like, we're not, music isn't made formulayically. Like, he was like, you're not trying to think, what are people going to love and so I'm going to make it? And, you know, to, to hear that across artists and musicians,

different genres, different backgrounds, it speaks to a lot. When was your darkest time, or when was the moment where you felt like you would just, this is not, yeah. It's so true, everything you're saying. Artists, we exist in one of two states. We're either, you can't mess with me and best or I suck

Everyone hates me from the worst. I should quit. I can relate In between the hardest place to be is I'm alright. Yeah, I'm gonna. I guess I'm gonna write artist who wants to be I'm a no right artist Nobody has a good ass. All right, man. What cup nobody wants that Who wants to be an old right artist? Nobody. How's it going? Ah, I'm a lot of cops. Nobody wants that. So if you're not killing it, you're here. Your eyes suck. I should quit.

Nobody likes me. People aren't listening to my music. They're listening to that person's music. So, of course, I've had those moments. Not only have I had them, epically in one particular point in my life. My whole journey, man, has been like, it's been like the Rocky story,

which is why I'm so obsessed with Rocky. I love Rocky. Love Rocky, bro. The slide docs out, I haven't started it. Oh man, I watched it, it's incredible. I can't wait, I'm also obsessed with the Sylvester's. So much. Dude, that dude, he's so smart and I watched the,

I watched it, I'm not gonna ruin it for you, but one thing I've always known for about Sylvester Stallone is that this guy bit on himself. That's the story we know, he bet on himself, didn't get cast in movies because of the way he looked, the way he spoke. So what did he do? He wrote roles for himself.

What an amazing, what a genius thing to do. Go, you're not gonna cast me fine. And he bet on himself with Rocky. But he didn't win immediately in Rocky. But what, what, that story tells me is, here's a guy, a bum, just a dude that no one pays attention to. But he's, he's still a human being. He, he symbolizes your average Joe. Your average Joe, who the world ain't really looking at. They don't really stop to notice him. But he has a secret dream. He has a little dream inside of him. You know what I mean?

And then when he gets that opportunity, he goes for it because he's got an A nothing to lose, but B, he's all heart. He's all heart. And he's doing it from a place of love. He's not necessarily need that belt He just loves a the game and be I can't believe I got this opportunity man I'm gonna take this and we'll take it with both my hands. I'm not gonna let go But then the rocky saga the storyline continues the rise and then the fall and that's why he's to me

He's such a great writer is because I think he was simultaneously writing about what was going on in his life From nobody to becoming the biggest thine Hollywood to then maybe getting caught up in the game Losing your roots. Oh now I'm not even speaking the same way I don't walk the same way talk the same way. I don't write the same way because now I'm a star I'm people are looking at me expecting different things and my career was like that when I started off I just wrote from the heart man. I wrote it because Jay Rishi Rich and Juggie Deer coming through on a song who says that why are you calling your own names out on a song most songs are just like hey girl so you're from the last time it's a

imaginary story about something now that you out. This guy thinks it's okay. On his first ever song to go Yon. It's not the intro part. No, it's not like that. Yo, it's yeah, it's not it's not that part. It's it's the verse. It's the verse. Yeah. Why young cockiness, fresh, fun, not even thinking about it, not studying other songs going well, what are the lyrics to they write, what are the big hits? I did it and it connected and it felt right and it worked. First album, I mean, you're familiar with it.

All of it. Yeah, I remember buying me against myself on CD. There you go. Because I was so excited to look at the art. And I loved the idea because on the last track year to wait like a few minutes and fast forward it to wait for like bonus material. This is love, this kind of like hidden things like yeah, massive, yeah. Yeah, and yeah.

I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the Colkays podcast, Zone 7. Join us every Wednesday to hear cases like the Long Island Serial Killer. Here Carrie Rosson, daughter of the notorious Serial Killer BTK, weigh in on the accused Long Island serial killer's children. You show like genuine interest and you can't fake it. But these guys can see like right through to your soul. So you have to be like walled off, prepared. And if you don't know your stuff, they're going to just call you out.

And they're going to be like, nope, I'm talking to somebody else. I'm not talking to you. Here great insight from one of New York City's finest detective Joe Jackalone, a Col. K. Secksburg. You know, as well as I do, cops weren't even aware of it back then. So they're going to have some difficulty putting those cases together. Unless, of course, he confesses. Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

you get your podcast. Something about Mary Poppins? Something about Mary Poppins. Exactly. Oh man, this is fun. I'm AJ Jacobs and I am an author and a journalist and I tend to get obsessed with stuff. And my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my new podcast, The Puzzler, Dressing, Dressing.

Frick's dressing. Exactly. That's good. We are living in the golden age of puzzles. And now you can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered Straight to your ears for ten minutes or less every day on the puzzler short and sweet I thought to myself. I bet I know what this is and now I definitely know what this is. This is so weird This is fun. Let's try this one

Listen to the puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's awful and I should have seen it coming. So me against myself, why was it even called me against myself? It was called me against myself because bro, in all honesty truth be told from the beginning of my career, I have been in this little bubble where I have been fighting myself the whole time. The rapper versus the singer, the R&B guy versus the pop guy. It's always been this duality of who is actually keeping it real and who's the one making the money and

you know up on the stages and are they the same person? Because the guy who's keeping it real was the rapper. He was the guy who was like, you know, you sold out, you're writing these fictional songs about, hey baby girl, this baby girl, that. And on the song, me against myself, it's literally the rap of us, the singer. And the other part of this whole thing was it was me against everyone else in the music industry. Because at the time when I started, I didn't really know it, know it, you know, but now we look back, I was really out there by myself as the only Asian kid in a sea of, I'm talking like a bit of the mainstream artist now. And 20 years ago, even more so.

20 years ago, and it was only until I sort of really started coming across situations where I realized I am the the odd one out. I am the fish out of water here. I'm the one that doesn't look like anybody else. It was very different. And, you know, for me, I felt like, at that point, the only thing that was going to get me through all of this was by staying true to who I am. Right? So, there's this, you know, song I wrote called Good Enough. So what I would do is I would, instead of screaming about it on interviews and running on about it and complaining about how difficult it is trying to break

through and not having the same opportunities as other artists, I used to disguise my songs, my love songs. I used to write open letters to the music industry and disguise them as love songs. So there's a song on my first album on me against myself called Good Enough. And in the lyrics, you think he's talking about a girl who's not the same racer so like he's dating a girl from a different race, but it's actually an open letter to the music industry. And it says, it says, I've got my mother's skin, I've got my father's eyes. That's something that I can't deny and that's nothing that I want to hide. And even though my roots come from the other side, they told me that they won't

mind because I heard that love is blind. And then it says, how do I change a million minds in this lifetime? What is it I have to do? If I erase my history, what defines me? If I had to change my truth, would I be good enough for you. And really it was about me talking to the music industry. Yeah. So I'm like I'm just like you. Why are you giving me a harder time? Listen to my music. Tell me if it fits in where it should fit in. So when all that stuff started to happen I went in a bit of a it was hard for me. I went in a little bit of a dark place because I was like this ain, this was meant to be fun. This was meant to be my dream.

And now I'm not getting the same opportunity as, and I didn't know what to do about that. You know, when my first album, when they tried to take me onto the second album at Virgin, I realized that these people don't understand me. They don't understand my vision, my art, I'ma go step out. So any money that I had earned off that first album and touring, I invested in myself,

like, like, the rest of the loan. And that's where I did the my own way album, of course, why it's called my own way. On that album, I remember leaving Virgin and at the time being told, don't worry, you're going to get another record deal. You know, you've got all the success, you've got these chart hits. Of course, you're going to get signed immediately. I was like, yeah, okay, good, I'll get signed to a label that understands me. Didn't happen. Didn't happen. And now I'm like, well, I had like four years

in the game and that's it. Maybe I should have stayed with Virgin. Who else gets a major record deal and then walks away from it? And then I had to talk to my parents, tell them the situation. I've just given up a chance at being a doctor. I've had one hour amount toward the world a little bit. Didn't really smash it though, did I? Like for the Indians around the world, yes, I smashed it. Of course, they were like, first guy, hour guy. But in terms of mainstream, they were kind of like, oh yeah, that guy had a couple of songs. So I remember being lost, really lost.

And I pretended actually to my parents that I was off to the studio working on a new album. And there were times where I would get in my car and I was driving around park up somewhere and literally sit down in my car and go, it cried. On your own. Oh man. And just cry because I was so lost and so scared. Here's a guy who had all the big dreams in the world, a guy who

worked so hard at school, two degrees. I had to just really just sit there and think about, it has to be a reason. It has to be a reason that this gift was given to me, that this blessing was given to me to be able to try to fly the flag for us. What do I do? I can't just end here. Amazingly, as the universe would have it, about two weeks later, there was this event where I was doing like a meet and greet, and this kid comes up to me,

and he's about 16, 17 at the time, hands me a CD, and he goes, hey man, I'm such a big fan. I make music, please listen to it if you can, my contact details are on there So yeah cool man now look when this happens as you know like sometimes we're like Cool, but sometimes you get 100 CDs you don't get to listen to them all on the way home put it in the car listening to it I'm like like this beat is insane. And I was like, holy, I'm calling this guy straight away.

I picked him up, picked out the phone, I was like, where do you live? Where's your studio? Is that Jason? He's like, bro, come on. I was like, no, I'm coming over now to your studio. And he had a studio in his garden chair. Where is this? in Slau. He had a studio in his garden shed in Slau and this is a fan of mine and I said, we're

gonna work. He said, dude, come on. I was like, I'm serious and it was just me and him. And on that day, I wrote, write it with this kid who had just given me a demo CD. He had a dream. He had a lofty dream. He didn't know that I was also in a place in my life where I needed something. He needed something and I needed something we both wanted to win.

And that song was just sent, bro. And it changed everything. That song, obviously his, as you know, I mean, that was about to live on and on TikTok. That song has had so many lives and so many edits and so many like. It's insane. It's crazy. But without having too heavy on the spiritual shit about it, I think it's because there is something special about that song. I think it's because that song,

it's very Genesis came from a place of where I was at my lowest and needed so badly to be plucked out of this dark place. And I needed something from up here man. I needed something to lift me up. And that song not only just did that for me, it's kind of like a sacred song for me, you know, and it gave this kid a life. It gave him an entire career. One song. And then fast forward 12 years later, it goes and gives another guy a life, some random dude in Lithuania,

who's just like done a remix and put it on YouTube and then it goes on TikTok. This guy is now touring the world. Do you know what I mean? And it also like, you know, did pretty good for me during the pandemic. A little nice pocket change for me too. And it was like, you know, it's special.

So there you go, there was my Rocky story, right? Then boom, down here in the dumps. Back up, now right it's out. J Sean version two's out. Shaped head. The spikes are going on. The shaved head. And one of a sudden man, I got another shot at it.

The reason why I love hearing it is because I remember, like, I remember trying to figure out what had happened between the two albums too. And I remember like, as you were fans were following, he was like, I can't remember. It was like, was it relentless or reckless? I can't remember. Relentless, right?

It was relentless. And it was like, yeah, you were? I can't remember. Relentless, right? It was relentless and it was like, yeah, you were seeing that shift and you never know what's going on on the other side. The best part about that story though is the randomness and allowing the randomness because I think so often as you become more successful, you become more closed and you become more, are're just a little kid, what do you have? And that ego, we've talked about ego a few times

in this conversation, it just shows me again and again and again, the thing that gets in all of our ways is our ego. Ego stops you from being creative because you're scared of what your friends will think. That's ego. Ego stops you when you start thinking, you're the man getting into America

and if you would have acted in that way back at that guy, but you were like, no, no, no, I'm gonna get better. I need more, I need to get more people to know my work. And then Ego again could have stopped you from going, I used a little kid, I'd think, like what does E know? I'm just sure, like, he's just, everyone gives me CDs. Right.

And it's so interesting just how we have to work against our ego constantly and me against myself. In and of itself is actually us against our ego on a daily basis. That's the real battle. The real battle is us against our ego. It really is. It's so true, man. I think I think all of that ties in also, bro, to just keeping not just keeping your eyes open, right? But keeping your mind open. And the thing is, I always look at it like this, man. Self awareness is obviously something that you of course talk about a lot.

And some people go their whole life, man. Not being self-aware. Okay, their whole life. I think very fortunately for myself, I got it quite early on once I started this career. I kind of understood. Again, just like standing out as the only brown dude, I was very self- on once I started this career. I kind of understood. Again, just like standing out as the only brown dude, I was very self-aware, I understood.

Also, understanding that when I came across those problems and those obstacles, I realized very quickly that my sense of humor was able to get me out of them rather than letting it destroy me. So rather than letting me go, when someone says something dumb or something stupid or insensitive or culturally inappropriate, instead of getting mad and causing an argument, I would use wit and intelligence to be able to get

myself out of it. Then I realized what kind of person I was in this industry that I'm in. And this industry, you know, as you know, it can be very, very fake. It can be very, it's hard to find connections with certain people. but if you know who you are in that space, I think you'll be okay through the highs and through the lows. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I love that you recognize that because it's very true.

If I wasn't open to the randomness and I wasn't open to the signs, I wouldn't miss. And I think about that, right? Like I think we all have to reflect on our own life and go, where do we miss out on that randomness? Because we've started to think that things have to be formulaic or equations or perfectly fitting

or coming from the right source. Like sometimes, you know, we all think, oh yeah, that business person will tell me the right thing or that individual. And it's like, well, think, oh yeah, that business person will tell me the right thing or that individual. And it's like, well, no, they could be some random person in your family or your friends group who says one thing to you that actually shoots you off in an amazing direction.

There was, I'm gonna give you a shout. Me and Jeremy had a call like this recently. So Jeremy said to me, he goes to me, he said to me, I just called him random, I was on a drive and I hadn't caught up with him for a while, so I called up Jeremy. And we started having this phone call and I had no agenda, there was no plan,

it was just catching up with him, and he said to me, and he said to me, because Jay, I can't wait till you start a school. And I was like, dude, what are you talking about? That's a very Jeremy, that's it. Yeah, exactly, and I was like, he's a dream. And I was like, first of all Jeremy, I don't have kids.

So I don't even know what school feels like for kids. Second of all, I feel really unqualified to start a school. I think it's actually very, there needs to be a lot of research, there needs to be a lot of understanding, like dealing with kids' mind should be dealt with extremely delicately and thoughtfully. I don't think everyone should start schools. Thirdly, like, sure, it's a nice idea,

but like, I've never even thought of that as even a concept in my life. But I answered all of that, and then immediately something came to my mind. I'd love to go and study the best schools on the planet. And I was like, I would love to actually go and understand, not because I want to start a school, like, I would love to actually go and understand, not because I wanna start a school, but because I would love to understand the human mind

and what we're messing up, that's creating kids who cause issues in the world versus kids that get it right. Now, there's lots of studies and research, but I would actually love to go and sit with parents and teachers and I came back to my team. The next day I was like, guys, I have to go and do this and we have to document it and we have to get, because not because I think there's I was like, guys, I have to go and do this. And we have to document it.

And we have to get, because not because I think there's content in it, I don't even know what I do with it. I just know that I would be fascinated. If over the next five years, I could understand more deeply how to build more compassionate children. Not because I want to start a school. Not because I think that thought wasn't even in your head until this random conversation.

This random conversation that my major said, I could be like, what does Jeremy know? Right, right. I got content, you know, I got stuff going on, you know, he's nice, he thinks he wants me to start a school, but like, that's it. But really it's spot like genuinely, I can't tell you how much that idea is like you are captivated. Right. Because I'm like, yeah, you know, I'd love to know how we build compassionate, empowered, confident children who change the world.

I would love to understand that on a very deep, intimate and personal level, and so I started researching like, where are the best schools in the world? Like, what are the schools that make the most creative kids? What are the schools that make the most of this kids? So I got to go to the school in Spain, I got to go to the school, and I was like, amazing travel now feels alive again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like I got to jump on a school in Spain. I got to go to the school and I was like, amazing travel now feels alive again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like I got to jump on a plane to do to work. It's like, and it's for a purpose, and it's something fun. And I think really what you're onto there, bro, is it's very easy to like sort of become complacent as well. Like you go, this is what I do. Great studio at this time, I write a song, great.

Ba-ba-ba. When do you find out if we've got, if we're lucky enough to have another 40, 50 years on this earth, right? What's gonna light us up that whole journey? What's got, and I think about that constantly, if I've already done this much, I've been lucky enough, blessed enough

to have 20 years in the music industry, what am I gonna do for the rest of my life? What's gonna light me up? What, I'm just gonna tire? I'm just gonna sit there,, oh, I got it. Lovely, I've got my kids, my family, and my wife. That's lovely, it's beautiful, but I'm not like that. I need something to fire me up.

Do you know what I mean? Which is why I did this thing, all of these different companies that I have created. But the biggest thing now that really lights me up, Jay, is seeing what's happening with this new generation of Asian artists. I was about to ask you about that. It really is. It's crazy, man.

I, as you probably know, haven't done an album for a long time, okay? A lot of people are like, yeah, man, when are you going to do another album? And you know what my answer was always was. There's what I said honestly is what I used to say. Nobody cares about an album anymore. They just want music, content. If you, let's say your favorite ice, let's just say Drake for example, let's just say, you're waiting for a Drake album.

And it's like, all right guys, I'm going to be back in three years. I'm going to just work really hard on this. In this day and age that we're in with our attention spans, ain't no one waiting three years, bro? No one's like, which is why he could turn one out a year. Okay, but that's Drake. But people don't wanna wait around. So I used to just say, I said forget album,

that model is old. It's an old notion. I'll just keep giving you music. I'll just keep putting it up. It's on my Spotify, it's on my Apple music. And I did that consistently for years. And through doing that, I sort of like, you know, just spend a lot of time on these streaming platforms. I started discovering all this music, which to me was reminiscent of what me, Rishi and Juggie were doing 20 years ago.

So when I was suddenly, you had these kids from India, singing in Punjabi, but they're singing over like a drill beat. And there's like an English vocal on there from some random artists. And I was like, this fusion stuff is happening again, except this time, it's happening with these 20-year-old kids who are living in India, who have basically grown up with access to the internet

from the moment they're born, they got this device. So yeah, of course they listen to Bollywood and they listen to all this stuff, but they're also listening to Travis Scott and they're listening to, you know, M&M, Rihanna, whatever it is. So that was us 20 years ago. And when I tell you something happened inside me,

it just started bubbling. I was like, I need to get in front of these kids. I need to soak up their energies, that youthful energy, that excitement because they're not jaded. They're not, they haven't even stepped into the industry yet. Their just kids haven't fun. That's who I was 20 years ago. And it lit me up.

And I said to Jeremy, and of course, it was the best news he ever heard. I was like, Jeremy, that's it. Dec's it decided man. He was like you're what? An album. I was like yep and we're going to India that's where we're doing it. He's like great never never been to India. I was like oh this is going to be fun for you bro. So what we did we went to India this year and I recorded three quarters of my album in India I recorded three quarters of my album in India, for these guys, these immensely talented kids, whose faces were just lit up from music. There was no journey.

They hadn't even been on a journey yet. There were no obstacles. There was no problems. There were no highs and lows. It was just love for music. And this album for me now, but I'm so excited about it because again it came from a place of joy and excitement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so it's so interesting how like even that with the going back to your Rocky story example, there's Rocky five where he trains Tommy Gunn. Yeah,

and it's like that whole feeling of he gets his enthusiasm back. Because he's back in there. He's with a young guy who reminds him of himself. Exactly. Again, there's such a need for us to always go and be with the beginner again and go to the source again. And we miss out on that in life.

Because the higher you get, again, less randomness. Means you spend time with the same people, you're not spending time with the person who's at the grassroots, who's got their finger on the pulse, and all of a sudden, again, you're disconnected. Yeah, you're disconnected. Yeah, completely disconnected.

And that's so right, man, I felt myself going, I felt like through my journey and through 20 years, you know what's really interesting is that it's very easy to age yourself out the game, right? It is. And you know, I think it's funny, right? I don't know if you've ever took, if any of the other artists who you've had on your podcast,

I've ever talked about this. Ageism is a funny thing in the music industry. I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so. In the music industry is weird, right? Like if you're an actor, it's brilliant. You just get to play all the roles. Yeah. And sometimes they've become even better because they've been active for so many years. Yeah. Right. The music industry is weird, right? If you're an actor, it's brilliant. You just get to play all the roles.

And sometimes they become even better, because they've been active for so many years and now. Well, now I feel like most, the main actors, in movies are 50 years old. That's the standard age of you had to check the age. Yeah, it's really interesting. So in a way, the more time you spend there, the more years you put into that craft,

we'll actually pay off. I mean, let's say if I was a doctor right now, I'd probably be a consultant within a few years. The more years you put in, you step up the ladder. And whereas music, it's like the more years you put in, it's like you're ending, you're going closer towards the finish line and they're like, come on, mate enough now, get off stage. I don't want to see a 50 year old dancing around, right?

And it's a very weird thing. If again, if I didn't have my sense of humor about that, I could be like, who are you to tell me when to stop working? Who are you to tell me I'm too old to be on that stage? Who are you to tell me that I have not done anything great since that song or this song? But I do understand. I do understand. It's kind of awkward and cringe worthy at some point.

If you see some people who aren't self-aware enough to understand that, bro, maybe you shouldn't be dancing right now. Go and sit on a stool. Make the song acoustic. And let's just get that audience. Yeah, yeah. Being able to let go of a former identity that worked. Yeah.

That's right. That's so interesting. And the thing is, quite often, we're frozen in time. Yeah. I'm frozen in time. On those plaques in my house and in Jeremy's house, there's a baby face chase on. And I look at him and I see that young boy and I see what he's achieved. And I'm proud of him.

But I'm also very aware that maybe I don't want to keep doing this 10 years down the line. Who knows? I mean, truth be told, I'm sure, Snoop, and all these guys said that they wouldn't be rapping. I feel like your favorite artist, redoing songs that are either nostalgic. I think nostalgia is such a big part of music, right? Of course it is. You listen to music to feel that way again.

Exactly. For me, with us, you're too, I don't think I should have made a load of new music and recently. But it's like to me, when he did, you remind me obviously. And there was this scene in the You Remind Me video where the song shuts off, but he's on that silhouette of that. You know which one to my right? Yeah, of course.

The sun's in the background. And he did that on stage. And for me, I was just like, that's all I want to see. Because to me, it's like, that is exactly where I was at 16. I remember trying to do the moves and failing. Exactly. And I'm still peppered in this. What do you think I don't dance, mate?

Yeah, but that's the thing. And it's like, if Eminem picks up a mic, ever, I will be there. I will just sit and watch. I mean, watching Beckham and his documentary take three kicks. I happily watch David Beckham play football any day of the week because there's a feeling there that you'll never get because nostalgia is built that way. Now, nostalgia will never change.

Like, if you had a positive experience watching Rocky, I can still watch Rocky because me and my dad used to watch Rocky together. So, Rocky will never, ever be older boy than me. Because, you know, I watch Rocky a million times. Bro, I'm sorry. I have every word of all of them. Even Rocky 5, even though they say it's the bad one, I still love it. I love Rocky 5.

I love it. Right? But bro, you bring up such a good point. It's such a true point. Yeah. Which is why. I mean, if you go to Vegas, why all of the biggest acts are nostalgia acts, but they put you in a place where you just feel,

they transport you back in time. What can ever transport you back in time as well as music does? Totally nothing. You know where you were, what you were wearing, what girl you were dating, you know all of that stuff, you know when you listen to a song, you know where you, and it's a beautiful thing, but it's really funny.

You reminded me of something when you it's a beautiful thing, but it's really funny, you reminded me of something when he said about the rocky thing, right? And you were saying, again, just to go back to that, the other day when I was watching a documentary, and it's not gonna spoil anything for you, there's some of the scenes are in his house in LA. You probably been to his house, I've been to. I haven't, I haven't.

I've only met him once, and he was amazing. Dude, I was. Yeah, I've only met him once, and he's amazing, but it wasn't as hard. I hope't, I haven't. I've only met him once and he was amazing. Dude, I was. Yeah, I've only met him once and he's amazing. It wasn't as hard. I hope I'm so glad he lived up to what he did. He did, he was awesome. Yeah. But here's a guy who's been acting for, what, 50 years now?

50. 50 years in the game. And what was his biggest breakthrough here? Rocky. Rocky. One. Biggest breakthrough here. But then 50 years of more films.

Now, if Sylvester Stallone is walking down Sunset Boulevard and me and my mate, so whoever was there and they saw him, oh my God, or just any person sees him, what do you think he hears every day of his life? You're in there, you're Rocky! Right? That's what we do. Now, he could take that and want it two ways, couldn't he?

Yeah. He could either go, Shut up! I've done like a hundred films. Why do you keep going back to Rocky? Yeah. Or he could go, yo. Yeah. I get it. Because I love Rocky too.

Yeah. And Rocky, for me, changed my life and I know you guys love Rocky. Totally. And he took Rocky, his baby that changed his whole life. And instead of rejecting it, I'm going, you remind me of the fact that maybe I've never topped you. Instead of doing that, he's like, come in.

I'll put a massive statue of myself as Rocky in my swimming pool, in my house, and I will have all the Rocky memorabilia all around my house, and I will embrace you, and I will have all the Rocky memorabilia all around my house and I will embrace you and I will be grateful for you. And that, I really love that. Because I think the problem is that sometimes we wanna, when we do a show, right? People are waiting, man, you go see Michael Jackson,

it's Michael Jackson. He has some of the biggest best songs on planet earth, one of the biggest pop stars I ever lived, what are people waiting for? And you want to see him do his dance and moonwalk. And he's probably like, oh my god Jackson. And that's where you're waiting for, Billy June. Oh great. Of course they are.

Cause that's why they fell in love with him and that's why they fell in love with Rocky. And they're the people who, for me, in America, man, they fell in love with down. So when I do my shows and stuff like that, whatever it is, even if I've got new songs, I'm not turning my concert into me. I'm not turning it into, hey guys, I know that you, loads of songs that you guys want to hear, but I'm actually going to spend the next 45 minutes singing my brand new album. I'm not doing it.

They don't care, because they don't know it. The show's for them, right? It's such a good point, and I love this idea of, whether it's age, whether it's time, whether it's changes in life, there is a part of your identity where you have to share, do you have to let go, like everyone has to do that. And what's amazing is I actually saw what you just said you don't do happen recently.

I won't name the artist, I'll tell you after it. I'll tell you after it. So it comes on stage and we're waiting for this song, right? Waiting and he's the first act before the main stage, but it's still a nice start I love. And I'm waiting for the song. The beat comes on and we're all there. And yes, we're like me and Rady

and our friends that we went with, really excited. And then 10 seconds into the track, they cut the beat. And he goes, you think I'm gonna do that here? He goes, you think I'm gonna give you that? I was saying he goes, oh, 30 years of songs to give you. And then he goes, based on all these songs that we didn't recognize. And he actually did that.

And he was like, I was like, you just took away my moment, bro. Like, I wanted you to do that song. That's right. Not because I'm limiting you, not because I think you have no other hits. You actually have really talented. Right. But that song is so special and iconic.

Yeah. That I need to hear it. I need to hear it. And I felt like 10 seconds of it was all he gave us. And then he never went back to it. And I thought, oh, maybe he gave it 10 seconds. He'll go back, set finish, didn't get it. And that's exactly that feeling of like,

it's our own stuff. But you're saying, we're dealing with that. We're all dealing with that. We all have a trapped identity somewhere. All of us have what you're saying somewhere. And somehow we're actually mad at it. Right, it's annoyed by it, rather than welcoming and embracing it.

And I think about that, it's been 10 years since I left the monastery. I'm a very different, externally, a very different person today. I'm married, I have businesses, we have media, we change where we live, like so many things. But at my heart, I'm the same person. I'm a very, I'm different externally.

My life is different things. Of course, I've changed, people change. There's parts of me that have changed. But I embrace that experience. It's a massive part of me. But I've found that whether you embrace or reject, people always have an issue with it, because it doesn't make sense to them. If it doesn't fit into their version of how they perceive you, it's complicated. And I think for me, I've learned to accept that I need to give myself permission to be who I am today, to be who I was 10 years ago, and who I will be 10 years from now. And I promise you, it won't be the same.

And I need to give myself permission to allow that. And I think when you see, like you said, when you see Silvestre Sploh give himself permission, we had Arnold Schwarzenegger on the podcast, which was amazing. I know, I heard it. He has the original terminator outfit in his place. He has alien.

He has everything. And he loves it. He really loves it. And I love him for it because I'm like, yeah, bro, you should be proud of yourself. Of course, you should. You crushed it. And he's not trying to be the terminator anymore.

He's not trying to be, but he loves it. He loves doing, my social media manager asked him a question on the way out and said, do you have any last words in you? Like, I'll be back. You're like, I love it and I love it and I love it. And I love it. And I love it for what they want.

Yeah, and I love it for it and he's not, he's not disingenuous, he's not inauthentic, he's not stuck in the past. He's a really, he was great to chat to and so, yeah man, all these people were talking about, but Jay, I could talk to you for hours. We can actually do this.

I think we have been. Yeah, we have been. I could genuinely talk to you for hours and I love this and I think we've, what I love about this conversation, genuine is I feel like we've drawn like, you pulled out Rocky and I think because we have that, we've drawn this really nice arc and narrative for people. And I hope everyone who's listening and watching this, I really hope that you find your own

rocky journey like genuinely in your own way as you've seen mirrored in your life that you've shared so wonderfully today. But Jay, we end every episode with a final five or the fast five. Jay, show on these, you have fast five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Spend so much time on self-improvement that you have no time to criticize others. Love it.

That is great advice, and no one's ever said it on the show. Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? It sounds so stupid, but it's like when you get the big money, nobody told me how to spend it or invest it. It's a great point, right money, nobody told me how to spend it or invest it. So great point, right? And nobody told me, anyway about that, go buy some houses

instead of wasting on stuff like that. So I wish I actually got some advice on that, how to manage money. Yeah, that's good, that's good. I hope that, yeah, I hope everyone is coming into new money is here and that. Question number three, what has been the gift of parenting that you didn't

expect? Because I know you're a great dad and that is no longer, the world is no longer about me. My job is no longer about me. My life is no longer about me. It's all about, it's all for my kids. All of this now is for my kids. And it's the most beautiful thing is there's nothing more, they that grounding than, you know, than when you can be a pop star and famous around the world, but you come home and you're just daddy. It really is the cutest. Yeah.

Question number four, what is the thing that surprised you most about the music industry in 20 years? How much of a change technology would have on it? It's literally flipped it on its head. It is a totally different animal. There's literally flipped it on its head. It is a totally different animal. There's 120,000 new songs that come out every day now. Every day.

Every day, 120,000 new songs come out. So you imagine trying to get yours, it's just a needle in a haystack. And so many people can be independent. You could do whatever you want. Don't need that big record deal anymore. Although I do have a record company that I've started. For South Asian talent, that's my way of giving back.

I'm sorry to say about that, but yeah. And that's what I want to use all of my 20 years for, bro. All of my experience is to now pass it on to the next generation. So I have experienced it. I know all about it now. So now it's my turn to be able to help other people through it. I love that you're doing that as well, because I think there's such a need for that support.

I was probably the two, you know, I was the guy watching Jump Off but too scared to go on. Right, that's it, bro. I know you love rapping. Yeah, I love my heart to sign you with. No, I think the age thing, bro. But no, that idea of like there's just, I think there's any, I'm so happy that you're doing that. Honestly, when I heard about that, that was amazing. And I'm so sad I couldn't come to the event. I was on a plane, I was out of town. Fifth and final question.

If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? The obvious thing for me to think that the world is missing right now is kindness. So what if there was a law that every person that you meet, you had to do a kind act? What if there was a law that you had to do one random act of kindness a day?

And I think that could go on to make the world a better place. Yeah, that would be beautiful. I think so. I love it. Even if you didn't want to do it, if it was a law and you knew you had to do a random act of kindness for somebody, that could have an outcome effect. Yeah, because you would make you do it even end of the day, like't want to do it if it was a law and you knew you had to do it a random act of kindness for somebody that could have a knock on effect

Yeah, cuz we would make you do it even end of the day like you guys are figured out. Yeah, I love it. Jay Sean everyone. I'm so grateful Jay. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you, bro. Thank you for having me. Yeah, no, this was so much fun. I knew it would be I mean would be yapping on for hours I don't even know how long I don't know. Yeah, I left us these guys, but no, that was awesome, man Thank you, brother. So excited for people to continue to listen to your new album on Spotify. Yeah. And where do you like, actually, that's a great question. As a musician, where do you like people to discover your work now?

Well, the streaming, obviously the streaming platforms is where it's all out, right? So everybody knows that whatever they have a favorite stream, if I talk about Apple or whatever, whatever you like, it will obviously be up on there. But really also, I love being on TikTok man I know you do you know TikTok for me is actually a really Catholic tool because it allows me to my my silly goofy sense of humor I allow it allows me to just be a human being rather than just an artist So yeah, if you guys want to just follow me on TikTok. It's just at J. Sean and all of the all of the usual stuff

It's very easy. It's just at J. Sean everywhere Yeah, man. Brother, thank you. That's so much fun, man. My man. If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic

and how to speak to yourself with more compassion. My fears are only going to continue to show me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I just wanna keep doing that. I'm Cheryl McCollum, host of the Colkays Podcast, Zone 7. Join us every Wednesday to your cases,

like the Long Island serial killer. You show like genuine interest, and you can't fake it, but these guys can see like right through to your soul. So you have to be like prepared. If you don't know your stuff, they're going to just call you out. Listen to Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Danny Shapiro, host of the Hit Podcast Family Secrets. What happens

when the person you idolize turns out to be someone else entirely? And what if you were kidnapped by your own grandparents and left with an endless well of mysteries about yourself and those around you? These are just a few extraordinary puzzles will be exploring in our ninth season of Family Secrets. I hope you'll join me and my astonishing guests for this new season of Family Secrets. I hope you'll join me and my astonishing guests for this new season of Family Secrets. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.