On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Jay’s Must-Listens: 4 Powerful Lessons to Reflect From This Year & Move Into the Next With Clarity & Inspiration ft. Dr. Orna & Novak Djokovic

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

Today, we reflect on the moments that shaped us, challenged us, and quietly transformed us over the past year. Not just the highlights, but the heartbreaks, the pauses, the uncomfortable in-between seasons that forced us to grow in ways we didn’t fully understand at the time. In this special end-of-year compilation, you’ll hear powerful, deeply human insights from voices like Selena Gomez, Cardi B, Madonna, Novak Djokovic, Mel Robbins, Codie Sanchez, and more. Each conversation reveals how love, loss, pressure, purpose, spirituality, money, and self-belief intersect in real life, and why growth so often comes from moments we never would have chosen. You’ll hear Selena and Benny reflect on how love grows through safety, patience, and showing up imperfectly. Cardi B opens up about depression, heartbreak, and how time, accountability, and resilience helped her reclaim her power. Madonna shares why cultivating an internal, spiritual life is essential in a noisy, distracted world, while Novak Djokovic explores the tension between ambition, self-worth, and purpose even at the peak of success. Mel Robbins challenges us to reclaim our energy by letting go of other people’s opinions, and Codie Sanchez reframes money, risk, and opportunity as skills that can be learned rather than fears to avoid. Together, these conversations remind us that growth isn’t linear, healing takes time, and the most meaningful progress begins when we listen inward, protect our energy, and move forward with intention. In this episode, you'll learn: How to Turn Hard Seasons Into Personal Growth How to Build Love Through Vulnerability and Safety How to Heal After Heartbreak Without Rushing the Process How to Embrace Failure as a Starting Point, Not an Ending How to Let Go of Other People’s Opinions and Reclaim Your Energy How to Build Resilience Through Accountability and Time How to Move Forward With Purpose, Not Pressure Give yourself permission to heal at your own pace, to learn without shame, and to start again as many times as you need. Protect your energy, listen to what truly matters to you, and trust that small, intentional steps create meaningful change over time.  With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty. Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. Check out our Apple subscription to unlock bonus content of On Purpose! https://lnk.to/JayShettyPodcast  What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:20 Selena X Benny: Love Story 04:48 A Misunderstanding In The Studio 10:35 Love Blossomed From Friendship 12:27 The Little Things Matter 13:01 Emma Watson: Day To Day Activities & Hobbies 16:53 Honesty In Hardships 18:04 Staying Authentic To Yourself 20:01 Four Steps Forward, Four Steps Deep 23:07 Embracing Failure Creates Space For Resilience 24:34 Depression, Vulnerability & Divorce 28:53 Time Heals All 33:48 Handling Constant Criticism & Pressure 36:45 Madonna: 28 Years On A Spiritual Path 42:24 The Third Space Theory 44:16 Spiritual Practices To Keep You Going 48:30 Have You Really Dated a Narcissist? 50:15 Why Money Breaks Relationships 56:51 When Intimacy Needs Don’t Match 01:00:37 Cody Sanchez: Using Credit Cards the Smart Way 01:03:57 Do You Really Need Money to Start? 01:08:23 When Success Still Feels Like Not Enough 01:17:28 Where Your Energy Is Really Going 01:22:44 The Let Them TheorySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human. Hi, I'm Radhi Dvlukaya, and I am the host of a really good cry podcast. This week, I am joined by Anna Runkle, also known as the crappy childhood fairy, a creator, teacher, and guide helping people heal from the lasting emotional wounds of unsafe or chaotic childhoods. Talking about trauma isn't always great for people. It's not always the best thing. About a third of people who are traumatized as kids feel worse when they talk about it,

get very disregulated. Listen to a really good cry on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The show was ahead of its time to represent a black family in ways the television hadn't shown before. Exactly. It's Telma Hopkins, also known as Aunt Rachel. And I'm Kelly Williams or Laura Winslow.

On our podcast, Welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly. We're re-watching every episode of Family Matters. We'll share behind-the-scenes stories about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in some special guests to spill some tea. Listen to Welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyankawali, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane de Bolo, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy at 3am?

And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Listen to health stuff on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to my podcast channel. Thank you so much for being here.

If you haven't subscribed already, make sure you do so that you never miss an episode. Now, I want to ask you, what moment changed you the most this year? Where in your life did you grow the most this year, even if it didn't look like growth? at the time. What if the toughest moment of your year was actually the moment preparing you for what's next? The end of the year is always a time for reflection, a time to look back at our journeys, our lessons and the growth we've experienced. Some moments challenged us, some inspire us, and some remind us of the power of presence, courage and connection. In this special compilation, we revisit some of the year's most powerful conversations on on

purpose. Deeply personal stories from guests whose honesty, insight, and lived experiences offer invaluable guidance as we move into 2026. The perspectives shared here are more than stories. They're practical roadmaps for how to grow, reset, and move intentionally into the year ahead. Let's get into it. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. He won, the only. Jay Shetty. Selina and Benny take us into the heart of their love story, sharing how vulnerability, patience and humor have shaped their relationship.

What started as a friendship between two young artists blossomed into love, reminding us that connection grows through presence, laughter, and small acts of care. I was saying that watching both your love story, and I know you were saying, Selena, two seconds ago, you're like, this is such a safe and cozy space to come to. I'm hoping that today we get to know your love story on a deeper level. and we get to access really what's in your hearts and minds because I think there's so many interviews

and so many things that kind of will touch on the surface level of stuff but I hope we can go deeper. So what I want to start with is I want to actually rewind and I want to rewind to a place where we don't retell the story but we get to relive your story with you. And I think there's a difference because when we tell a story it's like this is what happened but when we relive it, it's almost like going back to who we were

when that happens. So I want to go back to the first time you ever met. And I want to hear about it. Well, the funny thing is, is we actually, it was so long ago that we don't remember. We know that her mother put us in a meeting together when, how old were you? So she was 16.

Wow, I didn't realize it was that long ago. And I'm like four or five years older than you. So I was probably 20, 21. And her mom was trying together into music. And her mom is amazing, the way she goes. from room to room, gets things to happen. Yeah, she's a power. Gets things to happen and, you know,

and somehow she got us a meeting together. And we don't remember that. And, you know, after we had done songs together, there was one time where, it was probably 2016 or 17 or something. I remember when you were in a studio, like Interscope studios, and I remember I came, she doesn't remember it.

But I remember I came in and I had this talk with you. And I remember being like, whoa, wow, like, Cine was really like a complex person, like in a good way. And I was like, wow, she's, she's so deep. And we had this conversation where I really, I was just really left by being like, oh, she's deep. And then we went and thought nothing more of it. And then when we did our song together,

I remember leaving, not not feeling romantic at all i just remember leaving and i was talking you know because when you're a pop star like she is and you're a huge entity and and and you've done so many things in your life before like people set up all these walls before so it's like you get like like before i came and they're like well you know this things like this and this is like this and like she might not want to do that and like stuff and they they speak for people so much and then i remember Me and the director were so nervous. And then the first second, you like disarmed everybody.

And I remember walking back and Jake was like, he's like, the guy who directing it with me is like, it's going to be so easy. What they made it seem like she was, this was going to be this crazy thing. And the warmth I felt from her in that moment. I remember leaving being like, wow, Selena's such a cool girl.

And Celina, you don't remember this at all. No, no, she remembers the video part. But it was interesting because, yes, I don't. Yes, I don't have a very good memory, but I just remember the video shoot. I didn't see anything romantic nor really felt that, but I had a really good time. And that was probably the first time after years of doing music together and not together. That was the first time I really got to hang out with them. And it was fun.

I had a good time, and that was that. And then how it kind of continued was I was always cautious because I always wanted to make sure that I did protect myself. So to be honest, I didn't talk to them very often. I thought she hated. Really?

I really did. I knew that was coming. I really did. I thought she didn't. Like, I would see her and I would be like, does she not like me? Like, we weren't thinking about anything. I was like, wow, she really, like, didn't talk to me.

And I was like, I thought it was being nice. And, like, my friends would be. be like, no, no. And then, like, there was another time I remember, and my friends were like, oh, yeah, it's kind of weird. And I was so sorry. And there was like a few times. And I, and I didn't know. And I was just like, you know, I was like, that's okay. I thought I was being like polite by not. She didn't really engage. Basically, we, I was working on some music and we, we went through some of the demos that we had and single soon came up,

which is ironic because it was actually nowhere near where I was in my personal life. But Benny happened to do the song. No, no, I didn't even do the song. It was like one of my guys who did the song. Oh, and you came to fix it. Yeah, and I like came to help out because I was like, oh, I want their song to,

I was like, I don't like the way this product. Let me just at least help them. I said, I was like, well, I'm not sure if it'll be okay because I don't know if Selena likes me or something. And then John Janick, the, you know, the president of Interscope, he was like, well, why don't you just go into the session? She usually doesn't have people in, but just go in and like, if there is something that you feel is weird, like try to just smooth it over and talk to her and get in. And I said, okay, I'm going to go smooth it over. So I went in.

It was so funny right before I came. Her engineer told me like later that she was like, oh, Benny's coming. And she was like. And here's our reasoning. I'm going to defend myself. Yeah, you should. Very nervous around the producers watching me sing. Of course.

It's just a very intimate thing for me. I feel like I need to sound a certain way or do whatever to make them happy. And when I get to record just me and my engineer and maybe someone I trust, I get more out of the experience. So I just was thinking, okay, well, maybe he'll stay for 10 minutes and we'll just talk for a second. and 10 minutes turned into, like, 30, then he went to the other room, and I finished recording, and he stayed there. And then, yeah, this is too long. No, no, no, no, I like, so here.

So from my perspective, here's what happened. I get in there. I'm like, I got to smooth this. I love this back and forth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, I don't have this with anyone. Like, I was like, I want us to be chill. And obviously, 99% of it was in my head.

And I come in, we just start talking about. about life and her A&R is there, one of my friends is there, and we're just, we're talking about life and we start talking about dating. And I was like, yeah, you know, I went out on this date, blah, blah, blah. And then I was talking to her and I said, oh my God, I have so many good single guy friends. I was like, we have dinners at the house all the time. You should come over sometime. And I wasn't even thinking about anything. And we're like talking about like our ideal date and like this and that. And I wanted to make sure she did the line, right? So I was like, oh, I'll stay there to like make sure it's good after.

And then, so I did, we left. And then I didn't have her cell phone number because she changed her number a bunch. So I like, I like asked someone, I said, hey, give me your cell phone number. I want to say like, you know, thing. And I wrote, I was like, oh, my God, you were. And during that, I, when I was with her, I was like, oh, my God. I was like, not only, she's like really cool. I was like, I want to be like, I was like, I want to be like, I was like,

I want her to be, like, in our friend group. And I couldn't even be thinking, I was like, I want her to be in our friend group, and I want to make sure this thing smoothed out. So the song figures out, goes well and everything. So I said, let me just text her. Thank you or whatever. And I was like, you know, you were so sweet or something, something like that. And then she writes back, I guess we just were texting throughout the day.

And she told me, she looked back at our message. She said, somehow you started sending, like, selfies where you looked really bad on purpose, like the worst ones in your phone. Who you started to do this. Yes. Which, by the way, no girls should really, or anyone in their right mind to someone they would have a crush on do that. But we were talking about ugly photos, like, because I always say, I take the worst photo sometimes. And he's like, oh, you said something.

And I sent him the worst pictures of me, like, since, like, in bed sick. And then, you know, me at weird photo shoots. said, now looking back on it, I'm, I'm just thinking, that's, these are so weird. I don't know why I said it. Did you like me in that moment yet or not yet? Yeah. Oh, you did? Okay.

That's what I was trying to figure out. I had no idea. So I had no idea. And somehow we decide. So wait, why did you do that if you liked Benny? Why were you sending? Well, because I didn't know that it was going to be, like maybe I thought it was just going to be flirting and not really anything else.

Got it. But I really started to. to just, I don't know, fall for it. So I didn't know any of this. And then we decide, we're like, I forget how it happens, but we're like, yeah, let's hang out. And I was like, oh, my friend's having a birthday party tomorrow. I was like, just come along.

And I was like, just thinking friends off. And then so she comes to mine. And I guess she thought the party was going to be at my house. But I was like, oh, in my head, I was like, oh, she'll just come over. And we can just like grab a drink first and then go there. Like, not thinking anything of it. I was like, we'll just, like, grab a drink in my friend's wine bar. It's on the way.

And then we'll go there. You were there. And we were sitting together. And she said something like, well, you know, because it's a date I wore, blah, blah. And I was like, and I was like. No, I said if this was a date, I definitely would have dressed like a nicer. And he just kind of looked at me and I thought we were on a date. And I was like, we're on a date.

And then we went. And then we didn't really talk about it. So who thought it was a date? She thought it was a date. I'm sorry, a nice man takes me out for a drink. I'm assuming it's a date. I didn't know. But no one had asked each other out yet.

No, it was like, let's just hang out. And then we go to my friends, we go to this Thai restaurant. We go to Jitlada and we're like hanging out. And there's a bunch of people there. And then she all of a sudden, like, leaves. And she was like, I got to go to, I have a video shoot really early in the morning. And I was like, okay. And I was like, but I wasn't like, because it wasn't a date to me or anything.

And so I was like, okay, cool. And I stayed with my friends and stuff. And then she texts me after. And I remember you being like, that was like one of the most fun times I've had in a really long time. Celina, so you technically asked Penny out on the first official day. She did. She did like every. Walk us through that confidence, that, that energy.

There wasn't any confidence. That's the scary part. I think that's when I recognized that I had some sort of feelings for him. The key takeaway here is that love thrives in authenticity, showing up. even imperfectly, allows deep connections to form. It's not about creating the perfect story, it's about cherishing the moments that truly matter. Emma shares how the smallest, most ordinary moments can become profound teachers, how paying attention to what's unfolding right in front of us can reveal who we're becoming, what we need, and what's ready to change. It's a reminder that

growth doesn't just happen in big milestones, it happens in the quiet shifts and honest check-ins we allow ourselves. I was going to ask you actually, because I want everyone to get up to date with where you are now. Like, what is your day-to-day life look like? You just said, like, I wake up and I shower and I go on a walk. What does your day-to-day life look like right now? And what makes, what's it made of and what are the things that you love and look forward to? I recently started riding a bicycle. And, yes, I started riding a bicycle before my driving ban. But now it's particularly fortuitous. I also ride a bicycle for that for that reason. But I thought that was mainstream news.

Yeah. Oh, my God. I was getting phone call. Like, it's on the BBC. It's on international worldwide news. I was like, my shame is everywhere. This is, I mean, what I say? I don't know.

I think in a funny way, what the sweetest result of it was getting so many messages from people being like, happened to me too. I feel you. This is awful. It sucks. Which was kind of nice in a way. You want to lift. Yeah.

Yeah, totally. Do you need a lift? I was like, actually, yes. But I think, again, it's funny, like, I went from, when you work on movies, I don't know if people know this, but like, they literally will not ensure you to drive yourself to work. I've asked so many times. You have to be driven. You have to be driven. It's like not a choice. And especially because they need you there, you know, down to the minute, basically, depending on what they have going on. And so I went from basically only driving myself on weekends or during holiday to then when I became student driving myself all the time. And, yeah, I did not have the experience or skills clearly, which I now will and do. But I think, again, this was one of these, like, awkward transitions I made from kind of living this, like, very, very structured life to living a life where I was like, okay, I guess I'm going to get myself to this place and I'm going to, like, do this thing that I've basically not done since I was 10 years old. So it's been a discovery and a journey that's been, yeah, I guess humbling because on a movie set, I'm able to do all of these extremely complex things, stunts, sing, dance, like, do this thing, do that,

whatever. And I'm like, yep, don't worry about it, guys, no worries, I've got you. And then I get home and I'm like, okay, Emma, you seem unable to remember keys. You seem unable to like keep yourself at 30 miles an hour in a 30 mile speed limit. Like, you don't seem able to do some pretty, like, basic life things. And it was definitely kind of, yeah, I had days where I just wanted to turn around to people and be like, I used to be good at things, okay? I used to be really good at things.

And I know it doesn't look like that right now, but I used to, I can do things normally. So, yeah, it's been, it's been humbling. I feel like all of us, I feel like all of us can relate to that, though. Because doesn't everyone forget their keys, their wallet, doesn't know where things are. Like, these are, these are like serious. And by the way, I was, I think I was three points away from losing my license before I moved to the States. Thank you for that confession.

I appreciate that so much. Because I was in the States for, I've been in the States now for nine years. And I think it happened just, but then all the points get wiped off. Wow. And I think I'm now back to six points. I spend two months in London a year. Okay, this makes me feel. Every time I go back, I seem to.

Very much better. Yeah. Wow. So I'm confessing. too. Okay, thank you. But I haven't lost it. A lot of people, actually, a lot of people have, like, taken it upon themselves to come and confess to me, which I found, like, very, like, very enduring and, like, really, really appreciate it. But no, I think, you know, I think something I've been realizing is we, most of us live in a state of, like, I'm just trying to kind of figure it out

and keep it together. And the only thing that is different between us is, people's willingness to be honest about that, the degree to which they can admit to, actually, I'm just like scrabbling around trying to keep the pieces together versus, oh yeah, I know everything's amazing and everything's incredible and I'm having the best day ever and aren't you? And so I do love the people who are just willing to be like, yeah, it's not going so well today. I'm like, great, amazing, what a good starting point. Like, I don't know, failure as a starting point feels like, I feel like attempting things is so compelling. And of course, success is wonderful, but I love to see people who are like, I'm really bad at this, but I'm going to try.

Like, I love you. That's everything to me. That seems to be becoming harder and harder now, like that desire to attempt something that you might not be good at because it's exposed or because. everyone will see it or because everyone will hear about it. Talking about attempting things, I mean, you're currently studying, right? You're learning. Yes. Yes.

Well, two things I want to say there is I think in a way I was sort of, I mean, I'm someone who's always cared about vulnerability and authenticity, but I think I was also forced into it to a degree that maybe even I wasn't ready for and that, like, I just started so young that, like, I had to learn in public. I had to make mistakes in public and say, oh, okay, now I've learned this. And I had to be willing to go back and be like, hmm, like, there were some gaps here. And here's what I know now. And I think people's, I agree with you.

I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to learn in public and continuing to learn. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons why I have gone back to school and why I continue to do it is because I want to make sure that I have things to say. that are worth saying. And I think you can only do that if you take a minute sometimes and listen to some people who aren't you. Not just the sound of my own wonderful voice. So, yeah, it's been great.

And I think also I wanted to be inspired. I think being around, my favorite piece has been being around young people who still believe that the world is malleable. and things are changeable and that like anything can be done is such important energy there's so much dystopian fiction at the moment

and dystopian movies it's all dark it's so dark and I'm just like what happened to thinking about the utopia what happened to like planning for the best case scenario like where did we lose yeah vision

excitement imagination possibility so I think it's been been, yeah, it's been wonderful to be around young people and just to sit there and listen. Yeah, yeah. Do you ever, I mean, you clearly read so much. Do you have to take yourself away to do it in order to be able to do it? Do you have to cordon off time? Like, how are you still managing to study and learn?

Because that seems like it's important to you. Yeah, you reminded me as you were talking of one of my spiritual teachers, my monk teacher, who always said to me, if you want to move three steps forward, you have to go three steps deep first. And what I found often in my life is I'm trying to go four steps forward and I haven't yet gone four steps deep. And so it's almost like, I mean, this is probably a terrible analogy, but maybe thinking of the movie, The Substance, I don't know if you watched it. I didn't see it.

Okay, fine, okay, terrible. Let's move it. No, no, no, no, let's forget about it. But it's that idea of like every extra step you take when you haven't learned and you haven't experimented and you haven't attempted is taking away from your ability to move forward. forward. And sometimes I think when we feel stuck or when we think things are not moving or they're not progressing, they may be assigned to say, well, pause and go deeper for a second

or pause and go inward for a second. And so to me, hearing that from you, I find that, and I'm, I definitely fail at this all the time. There are so many times I'm trying to push more forward than I've gone deep. And so whenever I notice there myself and I notice that I'm just kind of trying everything and nothing is working, it's actually just the universe and self-saying to me, go read, go study. And so I've found that I've had to really carve out time to make time to do what I love, which is to read and study. But I found that I'm someone who doesn't love 30 minutes a day. I'm not that kind of a reader. I'm someone who needs to read for three or four hours, if not more. And so I found that carving out deep, immersive time is more important to me

than this kind of mechanical 30, 40 minutes a day, which is great for you if that works for you as a habit. It doesn't for me because I'm a bit of an extremist. And I just need to spend a whole weekend reading as opposed to, you know, I don't need to read every day. So I'll try and, I try once a month on a weekend to just absorb into a subject that I love. And I'll take a course, I'll go to a class,

I'll watch a TED talk online, I'll read as many books as I can, and I try and immerse myself that way. What's your learning style? I'm the same as you. And actually, someone who I really respect and ask for advice for often, and I ask for feedback on myself, he said to me, Emma, I think if you did 90% of what you wanted to do at 50% of the speed, you would get so much more, like life would be so much better.

And I was like, wow, 50% of the speed and only 90% of what I want to do. And he was like, I think that's the minimum, to be honest. And I was like, wow. But I think it's, yeah, what you said resonates. I think I often have to remind myself that it's not about speedily getting somewhere. It's just not the point. Things are supposed to happen with a certain timing. The key takeaway here is that life's transitions, even the awkward or challenging ones,

are opportunities to grow. Struggle doesn't diminish our past achievements. it humanizes us. Being honest about where we are and embracing failure as a starting point creates space for real learning, authenticity and resilience. Want to make a real difference

this giving season? This December on purpose is part of Pods fight poverty, podcast teaming up to lift three villages in Rwanda out of extreme poverty. We're doing it through giving Directly, which sends cash straight to families so they can choose what they need most. Donate at give directly.org forward slash on purpose.

First time gifts are matched, doubling your impact. Our goal is $1 million by year's end enough to lift 700 families out of poverty. Join us at give directly.org forward slash on purpose. What do you get when you makes 1950s Hollywood? a Cuban musician with a dream and one of the most iconic sitcoms of all time. You get Desi Arness, a trailblazer, a businessman, a husband,

and maybe most importantly, the first Latino to break prime time wide open. I'm Wilmer Valderrama, and yes, I grew up watching him, probably just like you and millions of others. But for me, I saw myself in his story. From plening canary cages to this night here in New York,

it's a long ways. On the podcast starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama, I'll take you in a journey to Desi's life. The moments it has overlapped with mine, how he redefined

American television and what that meant for all of us watching from the sidelines, waiting for a face like hours on screen. This is the story of how one man's spotlight

lit the path for so many others and how we carry his legacy today. Listen to starring Desi Arnaz and Wilmer Valderrama as part of the

MyCultura podcast network available on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. On this week's episode of the next chapter, I, T.D. Jakes, get to sit down with Oprah Winfrey, a media mogul philanthropist,

and global trailblazer. My life, although it may look like an anomaly, it has only been possible because I was obedient to the calls. This episode dies deep into how Oprah turned pain into purpose and what it really means to evolve with everybody watching. Every decision I have ever made has come from sitting with the spirit and asking God, what would you have me do first? Whether you're rebuilding, reimagining, or just trying to hold it together, this one will speak directly to you. Listen to the next chapter on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast, episodes drop weekly. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler.

Nicholas Sparksk is here. I would imagine that you've gotten a lot of feedback about setting a standard of love and romance that a lot of men probably can't measure up to. I have heard such stories at my book signings, right? Where's my knower? Where's my John from Dear John? And at the same time, in the course of my career, I've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book. Oh, really? They get up to the table.

The doodle dropped to his knees. And I feel so bad for them. I'm like, dude, you're, you're in a Walmart in Birmingham, Alabama, you know. But it's happened. And, you know, you get a lot more of those kinds of stories than people coming up and saying, I've ruined, I've ruined men for the rest, which I'm glad. I would feel bad if that was more common, actually. No, that's what you come to Dear Chelsea for.

Yeah. To get uprated. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you get your podcasts. Cardi B opens up about the difficult chapters she has walked through in her life, career pressures, relationship struggles, and the loneliness that followed. If you've ever been in a season that felt heavy or impossible to move through, her story shows how accountability, reflection, and time can help you for

rebuild and grow. Talk to me about that depression. For you as confident as you are, as bold as you are, to be so vulnerable, and I'm so sorry you went through that, but to be so honest and open about the fact that a year ago you were in this dark depression, and it seems like the worst it had ever been. Yeah. What got you there? Why were you feeling so low? It was just a lot of pressure from my career. And I also felt like my marriage, Like, I felt the love dying. From my end, from my end, from his end, I was very lonely because I chose to be lonely,

choose to be lonely. I was saying, like, you know what, I can't go through this anymore. I have to put a stop to it. But when I said I was going to put a stop to it, because you could say you're going to put a stop to it, and you could, you could go a month without being around somebody. It's not until you, it's not when you say so.

It's when your heart say so. I kept telling myself, I will not contact this person for a month. I will not give in. I will not forgive this easy. I will not go back. I will not go to the patterns. I will not go through it. But I was crying every day.

I was hurt every day. I was out here in LA in a mansion by myself. I was thinking about it every single day. And when your heart is not done, your heart is not done. Then I told myself, I'm pregnant. I'm going to accept the, I'm going to accept my flaws, the flaws that I bring in this marriage. I'm going to apologize for it, and I'm going to work on it. And when I take accountability and you take advantage of me taking accountability and you take that as a, see, I know she'd be back instead of me taking accountability and you take advantage of that, it really just killed everything.

And while it was dying, I had a human growing in me. And I just kept thinking like, it's like, was life? going to be without this person. What life going to be without raising my last child without this person? Was life going to be with that person not being my friend anymore without nothing? When you have those type of thoughts, it will make you sad. It will get you depressed. It will have you lost. but I overcame that and I am the strongest that like I have ever been

like I almost feel like when was I ever my strongest I felt my strongest when I was 22, 23, 24 that's when I felt like my strongest and I was like living in a power and that's how I feel right now like I feel like I live in a power and it took months

for the heart to say you're done instead of my mouth and my brain my heart had to be like you're done because you could say it and you could take actions but even if you take actions if you're not done you're not done

like I kept asking like around that time I was working with Shakira and I was like how the fuck did you overcame this like how did you overcame this and it's like it's going to happen and it's like it will never happen and it happened it took some crying it took some thoughts scary thoughts but i'm here honey yeah i'm here and i'm

the strong as i've been and i'm just i love hearing that but it was hard i can tell i can tell i can see it as i'm speaking to you it's it's not easy and i think those moments in all of our lives are the most difficult moments. What did you do for your mental health at that time? What did you do? What actions did you take? What did you have to do to keep yourself together and come back the strongest you are right now? I think there are so many people who are listening who have probably been through similar things who feel broken, feel hurt, feel lost and confused. What works for you that helped you come back the strongest you've ever been? I don't know if it was just time because I kind of did a little bit of everything.

Like, I did do therapy. I did saw a therapist. She's really good, by the way. It was like on Zoom. And it was like, I was telling myself like, I was like, I can't believe I'm telling a whole stranger, my feelings, my thoughts, my personal business for three fucking hours straight.

I was just like, what the fuck am I doing? That just feels so weird. Yeah. I was in there. I did therapy for, I did a couple of sessions. They didn't get me no nothing. I was all spring, all summer, recording. It just wasn't like enough.

I just felt like I just had to let it die on its own. Let things die on its own. And the bad thing about it is that it's like, not only am I dealing with that, that's my personal life. I was also dealing with fans putting pressure on me because they want, you know, they want an album. They want products for me. I had people that don't like me talking down on me. And then I had peers trying to start problems with me. And all of that, while I was going through a mental breakdown at home.

So it was just a lot. It was like, I'm trying to work it. I'm trying to sleep it. After I gave birth to my daughter, my baby girl, I was just like, take a break from work. And I was just going out every weekend with my friends. It was scary talking to somebody else and giving them a little piece of me. That's just my heart, just a little piece of me. and but i overcame that and i just that's why i feel like i just became a little bit more

better like just resetting yeah it's a good it's a good reminder that time is the ultimate reset and time does have a healing power that we you know the cliche of time heals all wounds but it's the truth but it's true yeah it's a cliche because there's true in it. Yeah. There's some reality in it, that time and distance and being patient enough, I was working with a client recently who was going through a breakup. And when we would speak in the first month, she would tell me every single day that she couldn't stop thinking about the guy she was breaking up with. That broke up with her. And then the second month, she'd tell me every other day. And then the third month, she'd tell me every other day. And then the third

month, you tell me once a week. And then the fourth month, you was just telling me once a month. And I was like, you don't see it, but I see that it's affecting you less and less and less as time goes on. But when it's you, you feel like you're just still stuck there. And so it's such a great reminder that time is the ultimate reset and time does heal. And just because time heal, like in the meantime, don't think that you shouldn't like try to get help because it's like therapy didn't really help me.

Like that. I didn't work for you. Not as much. Well, maybe because I didn't get to the part of where you get the help. I mean, I did do it like six sessions. I don't know if I don't know how fucking on. Like sometimes when I give advice to girls, I would like, bitch, boss up. Boss up, go to work, get pretty.

But even when I was doing that, I had like a pain in my heart. And sometimes when I was going out with my friends and I was having a good, good time, it will always be like around 4.30 a.m. when it's time to go home and I'm drunk and I'm thinking to myself, I am alone. I don't have nobody to talk to. And it feels really weird and it feels very lonely, especially when you're used to that. However, don't avoid that. Don't avoid that, but it will be time that will heal it. It will be time. Time just heals everything.

When you said again last week, you were saying when you put new music out, it was kind of the lowest you'd felt in another year. What's the hardest part for you to take that criticism? Because like you said, you're quick with it. You've got responses. You've lived in a place where you had people coming at you. Why is it so hard to put out something you love? It seems like you really put your heart into your work.

Yeah. And so when you put that out, is that why the criticism hurts the most? Because you put so much heart and soul into your work? Yes, because I put like a lot, I always, I don't like what, like, I'm not a lazy person. And I do understand my flaws. Well, it's not really my flaws because a lot of people will say something about my accent, right? But it's funny because my accent to some people might be my flaw, but it's also my my superpower and what makes me unique.

Some people say that I have a Spanish, a Spanish accent, but I really don't really have a Spanish accent. I have a very unique accent. I talk very unique. When you try your best to, like, perfect your accent, perfect your flows, perfect everything. I always try to perfect everything that I'm doing at the time. I was trying to perfect it. Like, even when I was a stripper, like, okay, I'm a stripper, but I'm a big,

the best pole dancer in here. And I'm gonna fucking bust my ass, bust my knees, practice every day and to like a be the best at it. That's the same with music. I'm gonna perfect it. That's the same with my marketing.

I'm gonna perfect it. That's the same with my business. I'm gonna perfect it. I like to perfect things. And if it's not the best things, if I'm not the best at it, I could say that I tried to be and I'll work my ass off to be.

and I didn't make it easy for myself. So when people just throw it in your face and then make other narratives on top of it with that, it's like, that is so mean. And it's also like different narratives of you. Like it's like, wow, you don't even know me. You don't even know me and you're making all these stories, scenarios, all this this over one song.

The key takeaway here is that time is one of the greatest healers. Growth often comes through discomfort, and while therapy and external support absolutely help, the ultimate reset is patience, self-awareness, and persistence. Difficult chapters can lead to profound transformation if we let them. Next up, Madonna discusses the role of spirituality in navigating life's ups and downs. Her spiritual practice has been a guiding force throughout her life, helping her stay driven, aware, and intentional. She emphasizes the importance of reflection and taking space for yourself,

especially in a world increasingly dominated by work and digital distractions. What's your intention for being here today? Why now? Why today? Well, in the past, I've usually done interviews to promote my work, whether that's music or a tour or film. But today, I would like to talk about my spiritual life and a spiritual path that I've been on. For over 28 years, this wisdom has helped me navigate the opposite downs of life, for lack of a better expression. People ask me a lot through the years, like, what is the reason you're still saying? What is the reason you keep going?

Why have you not fallen by the wayside like other people? Definitely a lot of my peers who are no longer with us, like what would you say? is the key, and I would say that is my spiritual life. I absolutely would not be where I am or who I am if I did not have that. It's helped me enormously, as I said, navigate the ups and downs of life, so I feel like I would like to share that with people. So that's really the point of I'm not here to promote a product or I don't want anyone to buy anything. I just, I want to share something with people that has pretty much saved my life. That sounds dramatic, but it's true.

Yeah, it seems like it's something that's extremely meaningful to you and a deep part of your life that often I feel you don't get to share in other spaces. So even though it's been a part of your life for nearly three decades, maybe you haven't shared parts of it before, what would your life look like if you didn't find it? I would believe that the physical world is all there is. I would believe all the illusions. And that would be my downfall.

And that is most people's downfall. What does spirituality mean to you? Because I think that word itself means so many things to so many people. Well, yes. I mean, a spiritual life or a spiritual path could mean a lot of things. I know that you have a spiritual path. And for me, it's not really about, like, who's is the best or, you know, it's whatever works for you.

I've been studying Kabbalah for 29 years, so since 1996, yeah. It's a long time. It's a long time. And I'm not a frivolous person. I don't suffer fools gladly. If something, if I think there's something false about it or corrupt or not authentic,

I wouldn't have stuck around for so long. I've had the same teacher for all this time. I feel like almost like it's my responsibility to share with people because I feel like, I feel like people need guidance. People need enlightenment. And for me, a spiritual life is having an internal life because you know this, I'm sure. You know, if we get caught up in the belief system that our value in the world is based on people loving us or other people's approval or how much money you have

or how many fabulous outfits you have or how many followers you have on Instagram. Those things don't make us happy. Those things don't bring us peace. So having an internal life and being able to look internally and having some kind of practice, whatever that might look like,

your prayer, your meditations, the time you take out of every day to stop and take stock, Like, contemplate, we live in a very busy chaotic world. Lots of noise, lots of distraction. I mean, how many times have you heard people say, oh, you know, social media and, like, all the, you know, people can't walk down the street without listening to music.

Everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time. Like, there is no peace. There's no quiet. We're not comfortable being quiet with ourselves. And looking inward and asking ourselves, why am I here? What am I doing? Or what is my intention

and a specific choice I'm making right now? Whether it's about my work or the way I'm raising my children, decisions that I make about everything, really. I have to ask myself. And if you don't have a spiritual life, you're never going to stop and ask any questions. You're just going to plow through life.

And you're going to see everything that happens to you as just a random event. And I don't believe that anything is random. I think everything that happens to us is meant to happen to us to teach us some kind of a lesson. But the question is, are you aware enough? Are you awake enough? Are you interested enough to find out what that reason is? Like, why did this happen to me?

What is my lesson? I don't want to go through life seeing everything that happens to me is random. But I also don't want to go through life as a victim. and I've had a pretty challenging life and it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or like being a victim or, you know, why isn't this happening to other people? Why is it happening to me?

Why don't I have what that person has? I'm sure you know the expression comparison is the killer of joy. So, you know, it's like you've got to get out of that game. You have to have a spiritual life. You just have to. You're reminding me of something beautiful that I came across called the Third Space Theory. Have you heard of it?

It's this idea that as humans, around 50 years ago, we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home, and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church, a community center, or a third space. And the point of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying, was a place that you could look back at work and home, and you could reflect on your life, you could take stock, You could introspect. But as time's gone on, what's happened is we lost that third space. We stopped going to temple, church, community, whatever it may be.

A place of self-reflection. A place of self-reflection. And we ended up with working home. And then after the pandemic, we lost work. And so now we're in one space, and we don't have a different vantage point to where we are anymore, which is what I think you're saying. Go back on even one more step that, to me, is like a prison. get if you get if you remove the spiritual life spiritual practice you remove the workplace then you're

in the home and then removed once more from home is you're looking at your phone which is even takes you out of home it's a great point yeah so yeah where are you you're nowhere living in the virtual world yeah we're living in the virtual world not even in the material world we're just yes but a virtual and a virtual world is not a bad world but if you don't have consciousness there's really no point to living. Yeah, it's, yeah, so it's, it's interesting to think about that because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea that if we all had, we need physical spaces to sometimes make us do internal things.

Yes, I mean, some kind of ritualistic behavior has to happen. What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued. What, I'm curious, what are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been so supportive and emblematic of your journey that have kept you going at the times, as you said, there were so many times you could give up or things could go wrong or you kept pushing and they kept you locked. What were they? What are they? Well, one really important thing is studying, making time every week to sit down and study. I mean, you can study the Bible,

you can study the poetry of Cahil Gibran or you can study the Vedas, you know. And you did that, right? You actually studied different traditions on your... I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbalah, I was looking for answers. Why do you think that was? Why were you looking for answers?

Because I had everything that people would assume would give you happiness. I had successful career. I had fame, fortune, monetary things, physical things. But I wasn't happy. And I naturally sought out, well, when I was a dancer, I had a roommate. She was a Buddhist, and she would get up and chant every day. And so I was very intrigued by that.

Like, nothing bothered her. You know what I mean? Everything bothers me. Everything bothers me. I'm, you know, I'm a Leo. I'm Italian. I'm very dramatic. I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time,

but I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness that everything was happening for a reason. She never got upset about things. And this is in the beginning of my career when I was living in New York and I was broke and a lot of crazy things happened to me. It's really scary, traumatic things. And I would always ask her,

her name is Marianna, I would always say, why are you, like, never upset? So I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't speak to me. And then later on, I started practicing yoga, Ashtanga yoga, and my teacher, Eddie, Stern, he still has a... Love Eddie, he's great.

You know, Eddie? Yeah, he's amazing. I got quite caught up and competitive about, like, first series, second, series, third series. But one thing I noticed is that a lot of people would come into his practice, his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do the poses. They would just go and sit in front of the statue of Ganesh or light candles or prayer.

And I realized, and Eddie pointed it out to me because sometimes I would have injuries. I would, or I would be traveling, and I couldn't practice yoga. And he'd say, look, are you breathing? And I'd say, yes. And he said, you're practicing yoga. So I realized that I was too, still too caught up in the physical poses. And he's like, no, you don't understand. You're missing the whole point.

The poses are just something that you do to breathe through, to calm your nervous system down, and to bring you back to your center. And that really spoke to me. There was a big, no, it was a painting on the wall of the yoga studio. It says, desire and detachment. And I said, what does that mean? And he said, well, of course, we want,

we want all the beautiful things in life. We want all the pleasures. We want all the happiness. We want it all. There's nothing wrong with that. You can't be attached to it. Because then if you're attached to it and you don't have it, what's going to happen to you? The key takeaway here is that cultivating an internal life through spirituality, reflection or mindful practice anchors us amidst life's chaos. Understanding our experiences as lessons rather than random events allows growth, purpose, and resilience. Dr. Orna masterfully explores the dynamics of narcissism and relationships, showing how our interactions often reflect deeper patterns within ourselves.

She reminds us to look beyond surface labels and understand the real drivers of our behavior and choices in relationships. Everyone feels like they've dated a narcissist. Mm-hmm. How accurate are they? A hundred percent accurate because we all have, hearts of ourselves that are narcissistically oriented, meaning there to protect our sense of self. Some people move more to the extreme, and they're really, like, deeply wounded and have to

spend a lot of energy protecting themselves and working around their ego. But most of us in certain situations were provoked to behave in more narcissistic ways, and when we're offered other conditions, we can be more open and interested in the world. So it's usually the way it's used in pop language, it's usually just like a word that covers up a whole other world of things. I think when people talk about, I've dated a narcissist, they're like, that person didn't give me enough attention. And what's that about that? There could be so much there. Like what went on between the two of you. Why? What happened? Where were you in that? It's, it doesn't tell you much. Yeah. I'm so happy to hear that because I do think that the word is relief, and it's not that it's

wrong. It's just that don't stop unpacking it there. Yeah. So those words are really helpful for you to categorize, summarize your experience, but don't feel that that's the end of the investigation. Like there's so much more. Exactly. And you're actually doing yourself a disservice. Yeah, and the moment you're thinking about, I found a word that finds all the problem outside of me, you're deluding yourself. When you find couples coming with financial issues, is it really about money? Money is a big issue for people. Money is a big issue for people. You know, the question of money, one of the questions that people, that couples deal with when they're fighting or debating about money is the deep question of, mine versus ours. What's mine and what are we sharing? And the most concrete version of it is money, but it's everything. It's time, it's attention, it's airtime, it's sex, it's so much is like mine

versus ours. But money is like, especially in our culture, money is like the most concrete way to talk about it and to fight about it. Like if you're making more money than you're, spouse or then your partner who pays for dinner like what what's what's the vibe between the two of you is it shared money or is it no we're still going dutch right fights about money are or are about the concreteness of money but they're also about where do i begin and end and what's us together and then there's a whole other thing with money which is money is also something to do with our with reality, right? You, I mean, back to the idea of someone hiding a suitcase with bills, unpaid bills under the bed,

like how realistic is your relationship with reality, with what you have, with what you're making? Like, when people talk about money, they're talking about reality in certain ways. I usually ask people, how do you think money should play out between the two of you? if you're making more money than your partner what is your ideology on this what do you really think should happen does that give you more power does that mean you should be making more of the decisions does that mean your partner should be paying for less how do you think about it each of you just what's your basic ideology which is hard for people to acknowledge right they want to feel like no money doesn't matter but it matters to everyone in some way

or another. They have an ideology. So are they willing to put it on the table to be honest with how they think about it? And then once you compare these ideologies, then we can have a discussion. It's back to the idea of like the couple creating their political backdrop. Like what is the politics of this relationship? Are you like socialist or are you capitalist? Are you, what's your economic system? What if we disagree? What if we vote differently? you probably will disagree on some level you will somewhere you will disagree and then it's going to get interesting it's going to be like a congress like debating what's the right way to do it but it's better to have that debate on the table rather than act it out in those like what was that film there was that oh my god it's a

film in which there's a shipwreck there's this couple that are sitting at the dinner table and they're looking at each other like who's going to pull out the credit card oh I don't know it. Brilliant scene. Everything about their relationship was in that scene. I don't know. With her kind of pretending she lost her card. Oh, okay. And him were reluctantly pulling out his credit card and then there was, it was just like perfect. I was thinking of a movie called Fairplay. I didn't see that. Did you see that? I heard about it. I didn't see it. I don't know if you'd enjoy it. I don't know your taste in movies, but I think it's really interesting. It's a story where it's a movie made about a couple who are competing for the same job because they work at the same

company. Oh. But it's really dark. And it really goes into that the psychology of competition, gender roles, the pay gap. Yeah. Everything comes to play. Yeah. And it shows how it affects them from the bedroom to the boardroom to everywhere else.

Awesome. It's really well done. Yeah, it's really well done. It just shows you what's going on inside of our heads that doesn't often come out. and and just how we all feel. And it's so interesting how society and all of this has such a play on how we feel about our role and who we are. Today we have so many more people to look at and view and see how their lives are going.

I had a friend who his girlfriend made more money than him, and he did really well for himself, but she made more money than him. But she expected him to pay for everything. and she wanted him not only to pay for dinners and rent and she wanted him to buy her a car because she believed that that's how she's a man because he's the man that's how she should be treated and that was you know that was for her imagine them having a conversation they ended up but what would their conversation sound like literally this I deserve this I'm a queen I'm a princess I'm like this hour should be treated like

Do you think she would, she said something like that? She said stuff like this, yeah, yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. And you see a lot of this language on TikTok and things like that about what a high value man is, what a high value woman is. And a lot of the language and vocabulary out there today. What is what is meant by a high value man?

I mean, there's lots of different definitions, but generally it's someone who does, has a good career, makes a lot of money, does well for themselves and, you know, the obvious definition of it. Well, it's not obvious. Yeah, yeah, no. To me, it's not obvious. Yeah, it's just interesting to hear how these societal ideas kind of, because then we're like, oh, but you're not with a high-value man, you know, and it's really interesting because in my world, a high-value man would be someone who has good values. Right.

The good values being like ethics. Yeah, ethics, yeah, exactly, like character, moral character, like strength and courage and bravery and honesty and, you know. That's what I would consider a high-value person, forget a high-value man. Yeah. And it's interesting how all this language at play kind of cascades ideas quickly, like you said, because it's easier rather than saying, I'm with a good man, it's easy to be on with a high-value man. But, you know, what does that mean?

Right. Yeah, I was going to ask you, do more people want more intimacy or more sex? I think it depends. First of all, it's a complicated thing to draw the love. line between intimacy and sex. Oh, interesting. Okay. And I think it depends very much on the stage of the relationship. Early on, one of the things, I mean, we all know that, one of the things that binds people,

one of the strongest glues, is sex, like passion and excitement about each other and, like, you know, wanting to get into bed together. And then at some point, people start coming to terms with, like, differences, differences in scripts, differences in appetite. I know that the, like the stereotype is that men are more focused on sex and want more sex and women want less or it's less important to them. I don't think that's actually true. I think, again, it's very hard to make generalizations and it changes between like straight and queer couples. So it's really not necessarily about the biology. But I think typically there are different focuses for men and women. And then later in the relationship,

things change because I think later in the relationship, the line between sex and intimacy gets very blurry. And I think generally everyone wants both intimacy and sex. Everyone wants it, and everyone wishes it for themselves and wants it in large quantities. everyone needs it, but they focus on different things. And no one has energy for it. And no one has energy for it. And anyway, a lot of it is about wanting to feel desire of some sort. That's what it is.

That's really what it is. And not necessarily wanting, you know, oh, I need to have it three times a week or I need this or I need that. It's a lot about the experience of desire and being desired that is really kind of the thing we all want, to be living in desire rather than living in a certain kind of deadness. The key takeaway here is that self-awareness is essential. Relationships challenge us to explore our patterns and understanding those dynamics allows us to set boundaries, make healthier choices, and build relationships that honor our value.

Hey there, Dr. Jesse Mills here. I'm the director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health, and I want to tell you about my new podcast called The Mailroom. And I'm Jordan, the show's producer. And like a lot of guys, I haven't been to the doctor in many years. I'll be asking the questions we probably should be asking, but aren't. Because guys usually don't go to the doctor unless a piece of their face is hanging off or they've broken a bone.

Depends which bone. Well, that's true. Every week, we're breaking down the unique world of men's health, testosterone and fitness to diets and fertility, and things that happen in the bedroom. You mean sleep? Yeah, something like that, Jordan. We'll talk science without the jargon and get you real answers to the stuff you actually wonder about. It's going to be fun, whether you're 27, 97, or somewhere in between.

Men's Health is about more than six packs and supplements. It's about energy, confidence, and connection. We don't just want you to live longer. We want you to live better. So check out the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Kelly, and some of you may know me as Laura Winslow. And I'm Telma, also known as Aunt Rachel.

If those names ring a bell, then you probably are familiar with the show that we were both on back in the 90s called Family Matters. Kelly and I have done a lot of things and played a lot of roles over the years. But both of us are just so proud to have been part of Family Matters. Did you know that we were one of the longest running sitcoms with the Blackcast? When we were making the show, there were so many moments filled the joy and laughter and cut up that I will never forget. Oh, girl, you got that right. The look that you all give me is so black. All black people know about the look.

On each episode of Welcome to the Family, we'll share personal reflections about making the show. Yeah, we'll even bring in part of the cast and some other special guests to join in the fun and spill some tea. Listen to Welcome to the Family with Telma and Kelly on the IHeart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. No one is harmed, no death, no trauma, just a few cells grown in a dish. This is David Eagleman from the Inner Cosmos podcast, and this week we're tackling a tough question where brain science meets the future. Lab drone meat is going to force us to confront the boundaries of our ethics and our imagination. It invites us to question why we draw

lines exactly where we do, and whether those lines are drawn in ink or in pencil. And what does this have to do with sanctity, brain plasticity, social belonging, messed up boundaries between mental categories, flesh copyrights, and the future of personhood? What is the table we're going to set for ourselves? What does this question uncover about brain science and our calculations of morality? Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Cody Sanchez dives into financial literacy, debunking myths about credit, debt, and the resources needed to start a business. For anyone who's ever felt overwhelmed by money, even small actions, like opening a credit card,

this will help you feel more confident in your financial decisions. Walk me through the myths about credit cards and debit cards that people can solve right now. Is there a special credit card they should be getting? Is there one that's better? What should they be looking out for? What does APR mean? Walk me through the hidden things behind credit cards that we all feel stupid about. when you see an ad and you're like, I have no idea what that means.

Yeah, it's so true. You know, I had an employee actually, Christian, who's in, from the UK too. And we were ridiculing him mercily, actually, because he only had a debit card to pay for things. And I didn't even know that the UK was completely different. No, there are credit cards, but it's not, it's not normal. I was like, you're a 28-year-old man and you don't have a credit card. And he was like, you need to travel more, Cody.

And I was like, sorry. But then we got him a credit card so he could start establishing credit here. But moral of the story is, here's, I think, the couple. first steps to financial freedom. You know, if you want to set up your kid for success, you actually want them to get a credit card really early. Doesn't so much matter what type of credit card. I'm not like the points guy where I like to operationalize and optimize every aspect of a credit card. I think that is almost more work than trying to make more money. But I think if you go from any of the major banks, there are a lot of rules around credit cards, so they're really not

allowed to mess with you so much on interest rates. There's a lot of protections for consumers. So don't stress too much about which one. Which one seems like it has some next per for you and you can get the most amount of money that you need. Cool. So that's step one. And if you can do that for your kids when they're in high school, they will actually have more access to the first pillar, I think, of wealth, which is resources. We all know what's the saying. It takes money to make money, right? And so if you come from nothing, well, you can start actually building up your resource pile just from your credit, which you can start at a young age. You don't need to be rich to do that. And then after resources, you pile on knowledge, right? The rich pass on how to invest. We need to start doing that to our next generation. Then you pass on wealth accumulation. That's where you start to pile on your own money. And then finally, you pass on the ability to invest to continue to move cyclically your money around and make it work for you. But that's where I would start. It's like you start with a credit card. You have a debit card really just because you want to get cash out sometimes if you're going to the club and buying drinks or whatever people do these days that are cooler than me. And that's where I would start. And then I would move to this.

next level of, okay, if I have some credit, now we need to focus on earning. So how do I make more money? But I think most people skip that first step because credit is scary. And like, listen, Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's partner, obviously very famous dude, but here's a line I love, which is men only go broke by three things. And it's whiskey, women, and leverage. And leverage means debt, right? Warren Buffett gave him a little adage to it at the end. And he goes, I think actually what my friend meant to say was it's really just the last one. It's really just leverage. And Warren Buffett, one of the richest guys in the world, said he doesn't like debt. But here's the problem, Jay. He's highly levered. He has a massive amount of debt. Why? Because he has debt on assets and other people's things as opposed to personal guarantees on his own. He's not mortgaging his house to buy these companies. He is raising debt on a company in order for it to make more money. And so if you don't understand, understand all that right now, that's where I want you to dive in a little bit more. But you can start with a debit and a credit card.

Yeah, no, I think it's so important to understand debt. And you see that when you see a celebrity buy a new home. And you realize they borrowed to buy that home, they didn't buy it in cash, even though they have the cash, and it's available to them. And I think that idea is so foreign. If someone's thinking about starting a business right now or wants to grow a business, and the number one thing you hear is, well, I don't have any money, I don't know how to fund it, how much do you actually need to start a business?

I think you never suffer from a lack of money. You suffer from a lack of knowledge on how to get money. The richest people in the world, they never use their own money entirely to buy things. And if you can sit on that for a second and let that sit in, then I think you can really open up your eyes to the fact that all around you, there are deals right now. And there is money that is waiting for the actually rarest of things,

which is a human who wants to work really hard and has a good idea where to put the money. And so you actually don't need money to start a business. I don't think you need it at all. What you need is some access to it. And so, you know, next week I'm going to the SBA, the Small Business Administration. And they just ran out all of these new programs for new business owners where they will, one, do grants, where they give you money. And grant means you take this money, you don't have to give it back. The government is going to give it to you. Maybe because you're a minority or a woman or have a core needs business. They also do a ton of loans. You know, they'll loan you 90 percent. of the purchase price of a business if you need one. And all around us are also people who want to invest. And so like there's a website called percent. And on percent, if you have a small business and you need some debt for a small business, you can actually get debt from your small business through a website. But I think the most important part is not just tactically. It's like, can I change my belief to believe that money is all around me? And I do not need to have only my own money in order to get rich. And I want more people to think that way. It's hard. I

get it. Do you think everyone needs a side hustle right now? I have two thoughts. One, I do not believe that you have to go all in on the thing that you want to do in life. I think that is told to you by people who had survivorship bias. It worked for me, so it's going to work for you. And what do we know to be true? 90% of startups fail over any five-year period. And so I actually think that the way to never have risk in building a business, if you want to do a startup and have no risk, I think you keep your job, you do really well at that job while you're doing it, you use your salary to fund your side hustle or your next venture, you keep moving forward on it until your side hustle matches the cost of living that you have, your cash flow, and then you leave your business or your job to go start your business once you have enough money from inflow of the business. And I think we've told too many people and idealized this idea of entrepreneurship when in fact, you know, I had three or four businesses fail. If I had just left my job that paid me good money, I would have been sleeping on somebody's couch. And so you can have a side hustle, but please keep it on the side for a minute

until you make sure it's not just a passion project. It is a profit project. Yes. Yeah. And I think that's the smartest wisest advice. I'm in the same boat. When I started doing what I do today, I had a full-time job. It didn't pay great, but it paid enough to get by. It paid my bills. it means, it means I wasn't creating from a place of stress. And when you're creating something new from just stress, it can be quite debilitating. Now, sometimes stress can be the greatest motivator. It can propel you. It can be your launch pad.

But you've got to kind of get it right. Too much stress and you fall apart, too little stress and you stay in the golden handcuffs. That's right. And I think that's where I see a lot of people stuck today is I meet a lot of people who I feel have tied on the golden handcuffs, but not using that. the investment. So it's like I want to have a lifestyle with the money I make. I don't want to use it to build a new life. The key takeaway here is that access and education, not just effort, create opportunity. Taking the time to understand resources and systems allows us to leverage them

effectively and take control of our financial futures. Novak Djokovic reflects on the delicate balance of stress, motivation and purpose. Even after reaching the pinnacle of tennis, he emphasises is that growth comes from passion, self-awareness, and the desire to inspire others. And if you've ever felt weighed down by pressure, his perspective shows how it can become a launch pad rather than a trap. Do you feel like in your career you've achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player? Yes, and more than that. And at the same time, I still want to do more. And I know that that comes in a big part from a good place meaning from a place of

purpose, inspiration, motivation, love for the sport, passion for the sport, passion to make people happy when they watch me if I'm doing that and I have a feeling that I am by still actively being on the tennis tour and

having my tennis career, active tennis career, I'm still spreading that light by playing tennis and inspiring younger generations. That's something that comes from a good heart a good place. But what comes from maybe, let's say, not necessarily a bad place, but less of a good place, I have identified that as well, is my feeling of not being enough. And that goes back to my very, very beginning of my life and my relationship, particularly with my father. And

not being, not doing enough, not being good enough, et cetera, et cetera. So now that I'm talking but I kind of get emotional about it because it's still deep inside of me. And it's kind of the battle that I also go through often. Because a lot of people, even closest people in my life, ask me, you know, what more do you want? You know, you have achieved everything. What do you want? Why do you keep going? And I tell them the good part that I told you that I still really strongly feel it's inside of me.

And I feel like as long as I have the capacity or ability to compete for, for the biggest titles in my sport, I want to keep going. And also, partly the part that I didn't mention that inspires me to keep going is to test my limits mentally and physically. Because when I was starting to break through into professional tennis, I remember when you reach your 30, you start counting your days to your retirement.

Like after 30, you know, that's it pretty much. Even though there were some exceptions like Jimmy Conner is the legend of our game, he played, I think, semifinals or finals of U.S. Open when he was 40, you know, still, still, you know, dominating the tour. So there were very, but very few exceptions. Nowadays, it's different. Why?

Because I think the care for the body has improved so much. I mean, now not only top 10 or 15 guys or girls on the tour have like multiple people in their squad to take care of them. you have top 50 people that are taking care of them. It's due to the improvement, of course, of the conditions for the players and we earn more across the board. So it gives you, it allows you to hire more people that would take care of your body. And I think that it's also a kind of a curiosity from my side.

How far can I go? You know, I'm 38 this year. You know, how long can I push my own limits? And I don't feel like I do have a limit. And I feel like the limits are normally constructs in our mind. I've seen the episode you did with Brian Johnson the other day. And then he talked about, you know, he's by a lot of people's opinion very extreme. But, you know, he dedicated his own entire life to getting the data and understanding what are the best conditions for the longest living life that he can have for himself, which I think it's something that is admirable.

and, you know, I give him huge credit for that. And I understand because as a professional athlete, you know, the care for your body and your mind and the devotion to the daily habits is so tough because when you want to change a certain habit, science says it takes at least 21 days, right, for the brain to start growing, you know, new neurons that are reprogramming. But if you don't have the right environment, that's going to be very, very challenging.

So that was also one of the things that I wanted to reflect on. And your question is the environment is the one that can be very stimulative to you, it can be really supportive, or it can be pulling you down. So it's super important even though we always encourage ourselves to be independent in terms of what we do, what we eat, how we sleep, how we lead our lives and what we do and how we can live the best version of our lives possible. But at the same time, we are social beings. We are very tribal beings.

And even if it's a smallest community, we still want to belong to that community. We still want this community to support us, even if it's one person or two. But it's super important in the end of the day because making tough choices, these are tough choices. Because society, when you go out there, you know, super majority of the places where you go to eat or people that you see, kind of a vicious cycle and they lead their life in a certain way that maybe doesn't coincide or correspond to your choices that you want to make, the new choices, or maybe the new changes. So it's really hard, you know what I mean? Living in the big city and deciding you want to go through transformational journey on a daily basis, we're being exposed to something that

is contrary to what you're trying to achieve. I feel like it's reinventing yourself constantly. You know, for me, I've had this kind of upbringing, had the great. foundation and you know I've achieved incredible things I was dreaming of becoming number one in the world and becoming a Wimbledon champion and that was my dream I achieved that dream within two days I won Wimbledon and at the same same day became number one in the world in 2011 in front of my family in front of President of Serbia who was there I mean it was with a welcoming of hundreds of thousands of people on the way back it's just you know once in a lifetime

type of experience and when you do something for the first time obviously that big it's just like you're you're flying to the moon i mean you're not you it's a kind of an old out-of-body experience but then i felt like i had to set new goals and because i was you know at the time 2011 is 23 years old 24 so okay what do i do next you know i feel like i'm at you know peak of my powers and i want so so then i want to won multiple slams then i want to win all slams at once then i want to win gold medal for my country, then I want to make history, and so forth, so I think goal-oriented mind, particularly in sports, but also in business or anything, really, I think it's super important because the clarity from my experience is something that is essential to have also peace

of mind and to have a calm heart that you know what you're doing and that you set your goals, your short-term goals, your long-term goals, and you know exactly the strategy. that you need to implement to achieve them. And you surround yourself with the people who are supporting you, but also people who are telling you what you don't want to hear, giving your constructive criticism or maybe giving you non-constructive criticism and then putting you very down, but that's also part of the journey.

It's also learning how to get up like a phoenix and rise and try to develop a thick skin, so to say. So it's a constant process. Really, I don't see myself. fully satisfied, if that's maybe a shorter answer, because I have that part of me, which is like, you know, I think I can still do more. But the other side of me is like, of course, I'm fully satisfied. I'm happy and I'm proud.

And in a way, I can't wait one day for me to reflect on everything. But while I'm steering my active career, I don't have time. Tennis has a longest season of all sports, January, starts January, ends almost end of November, And, of course, I earn my right in a way to be selective with tournaments where I play. So that's what I'm doing. I'm not playing as much. I'm focusing on the big ones. And I'm trying to incorporate all of these other things inside of my career and basically

expand the platform and use my voice for other things than just the tennis court. And I'm, you know, super blessed to be in a position that I am. But as I said, it's a constant journey and process. The key takeaway here is that purpose. driven effort transforms challenges into growth. Whether in sport or life, aligning motivation with passion and community allows us to turn pressure into performance and inspiration. Mel Robbins teaches us about the power of our attention, energy and boundaries. By letting go of the need to control others' perceptions, we reclaim our own agency and how these small intentional choices

in work, relationships and self-expression create meaningful change. It's so interesting how we think love is over caring, but actually over-caring is over-enabling that person and overwhelming that person. Yes, and it's control. It's control. You're not, like, if you think about what love really is, and for me, love is two things. It's consideration, right? It's having someone in mind.

If you pour in oat milk instead of the cow milk, because that's what they like, that's act of love. It's also admiration. And admiration is the ability to see something in somebody that you deeply admire. I want to go back to something that you said, though, because it was genius. And it had me think about the idea of the power of your time and energy. And you were talking about, imagine if your time and your energy had dollars associated with it. because I don't think we value it. And I started to think about one of the biggest obstacles because what's ultimately happening

when you start to use Let Them and Let Me is you're going to see that you've turned other people into a major problem. And you have turned them into a problem in four ways. First of all, you allow them to stress you out, but you're not going to do that anymore because you're going to let them be. But the second way that you've made them a major problem in your life

is that you give so much weight to other people's opinions. And in the example you were just talking about, what was happening is by asking you, what do you think? Roddy was doing what we all do, but most of us do it subconsciously and we don't even realize it,

which is before we even ask ourselves what feels right for us, we stop and consider what we think somebody's going to think. And you have that really brilliant thing that I've heard you say a bazillion times that I love, It's not what you think, you think of thinking. I'm like, wait, well, blah. But so I want to play this out because this is so important

was a huge thing for me. If you open up your favorite social media platform, we've all had the experience where you go and you pick a photo and you then put it up and you're like, okay, should it put a filter on this? And you start to then question, is this the right photo? And then you go back to your photo roll.

And then you start working on the caption. Should I put emoji? Is this too much? Should I do this? And then you are worried, why? Because you're actually thinking about what other people are going to think or do in response to what you're posting. Yes.

Which means if you take the value of it, right, you just overvalued something that you will never be able to control, ever, ever, ever. And yet you're doing it subconsciously. And what typically happens is if you notice everybody's got hundreds of draft Posts? Yeah. You know what that is? Yeah.

That is a graveyard of energy you wasted on something that you didn't, you'll never be able to control because the average person has 70,000 random thoughts a day. You can't even control half the crap that goes in your own mind. So what makes you think any post is going to guarantee that any human being thinks anything? And the Let Them Theory revealed to me, Jay, how often I was subconsciously valuing. Oh, for sure. Someone else, and that, like, are they going to think negative? They think this.

Is they going to think too much? And there's such a simple way to change this. You just let them think negative thoughts. That's it. The next time you catch yourself stopping to consider what you're going to post or what your colleagues might react to and that's what's keeping you silent, say yourself, let them think negative thoughts. Because that's what you're actually afraid of.

Yeah. And so when you say, let them think negative thoughts, something wild happens, you accept the reality that no matter what you do, it doesn't guarantee that anybody thinks anything. And then you say, let me.

And here's where this gets really cool. Let me remind myself, I can think what I want, and I can do what I want. And your social media in particular, as you and I both know, it's your self-expression. That's what it's there for.

And if you can't allow yourself to express yourself there, then it's going to be everywhere where you edit yourself because you're not just letting people think negative thoughts. For sure. But if you operate in a way now and you now take the value, you take the money back, we're not going to pay Jay the money for his opinion.

I'm going to take the money back and where I'm going to put the value is operating in a way that makes me feel proud of myself. Because when I operate in a way, whether I'm posting something or I'm speaking in a meeting or I'm showing up and not responding to my dramatic, whatever, I'm proud of myself. And when you're proud of yourself,

you don't even consider what other people are thinking because you've just anchored all of your worth inside of yourself. And that's why this is another reason why this is so unbelievably powerful. Yeah. And the truth is no one's thinking about you for as long as you think. It's true.

No one's thinking about you for as much as you think. no one's thinking about you as much as they even say they're thinking about you and we just like you said we keep draining that energy consumed by it you reminded me of the beautiful charles horton coolly quote and he wrote this in 1890 and he said the challenge today is i'm not what i think i am i'm not what you think i am i am what i think you think i am which means we live in a perception of a perception of ourselves. So if I think Mel thinks I'm not smart, then I don't think I'm smart. So it's not even reality. It's not even factually proven or checked or tested. By the way, everything in the let them theory, this book is literally every thought, those 70,000 thoughts, that's what you're

addressing in this book. Yes. And let them, two words, gets rid of the sphere. Yeah. It literally does. Because I was talking, I've talked to at least three friends this week and all of them are concerned by either, hey, Jay, I'm thinking about posting a video on social media. I'm scared of what people will think. So that's for their professional or their passion. I've got another friend who's worried that a lot of our other friends are talking about him negatively because he's recently

fallen out with them. And so he's worried. Like, what are they saying? They're all talking to each other. What rumors are they spreading about me? Like, maybe it's not true. And the thing that they're holding onto is they just can't let they can't let them. No, but they can. Yeah. See, I don't think they have the tool. See, here's the thing.

If you're worried that people are gossiping about you, let them. Let them gossip about you. Here's why. You can't control it. It's going to happen anyway. Yes. And so if you can't control it, why on earth would you allow any time or energy to be wasted? Yeah.

It's an act of self-torture. So if you are worried that people are gossiping about you, first of all, let them gossip about you. Yeah. Because they're going to do what they're going to do because you cannot change what other people do. You can't control what they think. You can't control what they do. If they're going to gossip, they're going to gossip.

So let them gossip. And when you say that, it's a relief because you actually acknowledge the thing that you've been afraid of, and it's like you're allowing it without allowing it. But then don't forget, you have power. Let me remind myself that I get to choose what I think about myself.

I get to decide what I do and what I don't do. whether or not I respond or not, and I get to decide who I spend time with. And so the bigger question becomes, if you're busy worrying about, which means you're expending time and energy, people who are gossiping about you,

why would you want to be friends with them? Yeah. And so now you take responsibility for your own part in chasing people that aren't treating you. you in a way that you deserve. Yes. And you recognize that the power here

isn't just letting people be. And when you let people be, your relationships get better because people reveal who they are and where you stand, and then you get to choose how much time you spend or not. Yeah.

And not everybody in your life deserves an explanation. They don't deserve a response necessarily. And so you also get to choose who you tell your story to or who you apologize to or who, how you respond to it. And that's where your power is.

And I'm not saying this makes it easy because you're probably in a situation like that going to have to say, let them, let them, let them. And then you're going to see them on social media and you're going to be like, should I block them, should I not block them? Are they going to see if I do that? Should I not going to let them.

Let them of their lives. And if I want to unfollow them, let me do that because I get to choose what comes into my space or not. The key takeaway here is that your time, energy, focus are valuable. Protect them, use them intentionally, and don't let external validation dictate your actions. Once you make that shift, then you make space for freedom, growth and fulfillment to grow from within. As we close this episode and this year, remember this. Life is not about perfection, it's about presence. Growth is not linear, but every moment, struggle,

draw your reflection is a step forward. The lessons are clear. Embrace failure as a starting point, show up authentically in your relationships and life, give yourself time to heal and grow, protect your energy, attention and focus, pursue your purpose with passion and courage. The past year has shaped us, challenged us and reminded us of what matters. As we move forward, carry these lessons into your next chapter. You're capable, you're growing, and your life is a canvas to become your best self. Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant on why discomfort is the key to growth and the strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. If you know you want to be

more and achieve more this year, go check it out right now. You set a goal today. You achieve it in six months. And then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief. There's no sense of meaning and purpose. You sort of expected it and you would have been disappointed if it didn't happen. What up y'all? It's your boy, Kevin on stage. I want to tell you about my new podcast called Not My Best Moment, where I talk to artists, athletes, entertainers, creators, friends, people I admire who have had massive success about their massive failures. What did they mess up on? What is their heartbreak? And what did they learn from it? I got judged horribly. The judges were like, you're trash. I don't know how you got on the show. Check out Not My Best Moment with me kept on stage on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and on the new season of heavyweight. And so I pointed the gun at him and said this isn't a joke.

A man who robbed a bank when he was 14 years old. And a centenarian rediscovers a love lost 80 years ago. How can a 101-year-old woman fall in love again? can listen to heavyweight on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts this week on dear chelsea with me chelsea handler nicholas sparks is here i would imagine that you've gotten a lot of feedback about setting a standard of romance that a lot of men can't measure up to i have heard stories at the same time i've had seven marriage proposals in lines to sign my book Really?

Up to the table, doodle drop to his knees. And I'm like, dude, you're in a Walmart in Birmingham, Alabama, you know. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.