On Purpose with Jay Shetty - John Legend ON: Growing From Grief & How to Turn Childhood Adversities into Fuel for Your Passion

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon.Today, I talk to the one and only John Legend. John has garnered 12 Grammy Awards, an Academy Award, a Golden Globe Award, a Tony Award, and an Emmy award making him the first black man to earn an EGOT. During the course of John's career, he has released seven celebrated albums. His eighth studio album, Legend, which was released on September 9th, is out right now. John recently began the second leg of his critically acclaimed Las Vegas residency entitled Love in Las Vegas, which runs through October. And his MasterClass on songwriting has just been released.   John openly shares his amazing journey as a songwriter, singer, and family man. We start the conversation with his childhood - from growing up in a Christina home, being homeschooled to transitioning into a public school and the challenges that come with it. Next, we dive deep into how community support plays a huge role in molding children outside of the home, the value of knowing what you want in life and finding the means to attain it and sticking to it, and the relentless pursuit of a career and build a family where love, care, and a safe space is prioritized.  The hurdles may have been tough and the path may be unclear at some point, but John’s story is telling us to believe in what we can do and remain passionate about the things we love to do.   What We Discuss:00:00:00 Intro00:03:07 Homeschooled00:07:23 Transitioning into a public school00:11:13 The strength of community support00:14:21 Healing, recovery, and forgiveness00:17:47 Creating stability at home00:21:36 Focus on what’s important to you00:29:06 Surrounding yourself with people you’re comfortable with00:31:13 The truth about ego00:35:19 Your partner gives the most honest feedback00:39:20 Becoming a better partner00:43:56 We never completely forget our trauma00:47:52 Pursuing a career and building a family00:51:29 Advocacy for better living opportunities for the society00:54:35 What keeps you going?00:56:27 Who do you want to collaborate with?00:57:51 Inspiration don’t come everyday01:01:08 John on Fast Five01:04:47 John’s The Many Sides of UsEpisode ResourcesJohn Legend | InstagramJohn Legend | TwitterJohn Legend | FacebookJohn Legend | YouTubeJohn Legend | WebsiteDo you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on CalmWant to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The One You Feed explores how to build a fulfilling life admits the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on emotional resilience, transformational habits, and personal growth. I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists to spiritual teachers offering powerful lessons to apply daily. Create the life you want now. Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade.

Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Jemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week, we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The Psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app,p Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Lewis Hamilton and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. When we first met, we were very attracted to each other.

It was, our chemistry was great. But that level of attraction is more like infatuation at the beginning of a relationship and love when it is able to stand the test of time it has to be deeper and more like, more real than that. like more real than that. I'm so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book,

Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait to share with you. I am so so excited for you to read this book. For you to listen to this book, I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eight rules of love.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour. Love rules. Go to jsheddytor.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. Now, I know you're here because you're fascinated as I am about creative stories, people's backgrounds, walks of life, choices they made, decisions that

change the trajectory of their journey because you're trying to make the same in your life. And today's guest is someone that I had down as one of the names when I first started the show four years ago, nearly four years ago. And it was one of those people that I wanted to speak to because I was a fan of his music for a long time, his journey. And I'm grateful that today we actually get to do this in person in my studio at home in LA. And so I'm speaking about none other than one and only John Legend who's gone at 12 Grammy

Awards, an Academy Award, a Golden Globe Award, a Tony Award, and an Emmy Award, making him the first black man to earn an E-GOT. During the course of John's career, he has released seven celebrated albums, his eighth studio album, Legend, which was released on September 9th. It's out right now. I've been listening to it. It's beautiful. I can't wait for you to listen to it if you haven't already. John recently began the second leg of his critically acclaimed Las Vegas residency entitled Love in Las Vegas, which runs through October. So make sure you check that out. And I'm really excited because his masterclass on songwriting has just released.

And if you don't already have a masterclass subscription, make sure you grab one. I first got one when Bob Iger had his Masterclass. That's what took me to the platform. And now John Legend has his own on songwriting. So John, welcome to the show. Great to see you, great to meet you. Yeah. I'm excited for our conversation.

Yeah, me too. I usually know people that are on the show. And I was like, we've never met. Yeah. And we've never met. Yeah. And we've never crossed paths, you know, and so it's always nice to, I feel like this is the best way to get to know someone deeply and intimately.

Sure. You do a podcast with them. When else would you have a situation when you meet someone and you have over an hour to talk to them and learn about them? Yeah, when was the last time you did that? Is that when was the last time you sat down with them? I don't know that ever happens.

Yeah, it's a blessing and it truly is. But I mean, I remember being a kid in London or remember when we first heard your music and we're like, who is this person? Yeah. At the time I was listening to R&B and hip hop and rap and then it was like, oh, this is very different. Like, this isn't, you know, it's hard to kind of pin it down

into one of their genres, but I wanna dive into your journey today as well a little bit. And I wanna start with you being homeschooled. Yeah. When I was researching and reading, I was like, wow, I had no idea. Yeah, I was homeschooled by my parents, particularly my mother.

We grew up in a very Christian home. My parents sent us to a Christian school for a couple years, but it was a little expensive for them to send us to private school, but they still wanted us to have a very kind of Christian education. They decided that instead of sending us to this Christian school, they would basically take the curriculum from the school, use the books from the school, and the school had this home school liaison as well, because a lot of evangelical Christian parents like to use this method. We would work with the school, but my mom was our main teacher, and we were home a lot with her.

We had friends in the neighborhood, relatives in the neighborhood, but yeah, we were with our parents and at the house quite a bit when most of our friends were going to public school and being around a bunch of other kids. What's your strongest memory from that time or something that you took away that has kind of stayed with you because I find that homeschooling still a fairly small population when it comes to people? Yeah, it's very big in the evangelical Christian community. What I remember from, I was very precocious,

so I love to read, I love to independently do whatever. I just wanna advance past whatever I was supposed to be doing at the time. I was obsessed with like encyclopedias and dictionaries. I ended up winning the city spelling bee during that time. So I was very perccious, wanted to learn everything. My mom had a typing textbook, and I just decided I was gonna learn how to type.

I was taking piano lessons during this time too. So I just wanted to learn everything, and know how to do everything. What's something that you've been trying to learn more recently, or do I add that mindset that's kind of like carried through? Well, I don't. What would you like to then if you had the time?

I should do more masterclasses. I should be a consumer more masterclass. But yeah, I haven't done that recently. I do like to read a lot and I like to just read about how the world works. I like to read about policy and I'm very interested in, how to craft a better society that's more loving and more generous and more just and more equitable for more people.

And so I like to read books that kind of discuss some of these policy ideas and ways of thinking about the world. Yeah, no, that's beautiful. And it is true. I feel like we all get so busy that it's hard to find time to keep learning. Yeah, I mean, I haven't recently taken up anything where I'm like, I want to learn how to do this that I don't know how to do.

I try to do it with guitar for a while. And then I just got so busy that I never like stuck with it. And I haven't had something like that recently that I've done. Maybe I should learn another language. Yeah. My friend did some dual-ingo. Yeah.

No, I worked for her. No, I'm with you too. I feel like, but it's fun looking back at like, what was that in childhood that we loved and kind of reconnected? It'd be good. Now that you brought it up, I'm like, why haven't I picked something I want to learn about?

I always thought about should I go back to college and take classes and just randomly take classes where there's no pressure to get good grades, but just you want to learn something. That'd be fun. Well, that's a beautiful point that as an adult, you actually get to go and learn something without the pressure of having to be good grades.

Like my mom, she's going to college right now, she never graduated and she decided she would just go. And you know, she's like almost 70 years old. That's amazing. What's her experience been like? She loves it. She really enjoys it. I think it's very like stimulating for her. And you know, she doesn't work. So it's like something to occupy her mind and to stimulate her mind. And she really is learning new things. That's amazing. and work, so it's like something to occupy our mind and to stimulate our mind, and she

really is learning new things. That's amazing. So you went from being homescored to then being like, and obviously there's many years in between, but being homecoming king. Yes. And that's like a prom king. Prom king. Yes.

Sorry, we don't have proms in London, so, you know, where I grew up. So I always missed that. I would watch Hollywood movies and I'd be like, why don't we get to have prom? And so we never did that. But what was that experience like if then moving from like this very specific homeschooled culture, religious culture, institutional culture and then transitioning?

Like talk to me a bit about that transition as a young adult or as a child. It was interesting because at the time, the impetus for us transitioning into public school was our parents getting divorced. And that, the impetus for that really was, it began with my grandmother dying. So my grandmother was very important in our lives. She was very important in my mother's life.

And they made music together. They ran the church choir together and we're very close. And when she died, it really sent my mom into a spiral mental health wise and she ended up abusing drugs and just really becoming distant from our family for a while. During that period, my parents got divorced. Our world was being shaken in a lot of ways. And one of the ways it was being shaken, it was like, oh, now we're going to public school

after entire 10 years of my life where I didn't spend any time in public school and it was quite an adjustment coming from home school. And I also, because I was so percretious, I ended up being skipped two grades ahead because I tested out of the grades I was supposed to be in. And so I ended up starting eighth grade at the age of a sixth grader.

And starting high school at the age of 12 and graduating at the age of 16. So all of it was a bit difficult, socially adjusting to my parents being divorced, adjusting to being in a public school, setting when I had never been in one before. There were a lot of adjustments to make. That's why I'm always wary of the idea of homeschooling kids,

because the social development just isn't really there. But I figured it out. So, yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I think music was always my way of helping me find ways to connect to people because even though I was too shy to really strike up a conversation in person, I wasn't too shy to get up on stage. And once I got up on stage, it was my way of introducing myself to people. It was like, oh, this is me, this is who I am. And I didn't have to break the ice with people

because my music was my way of breaking the ice. It was like my social crutch, I would say, at the time. It enabled me to make friends, it enabled me to feel like some control over what I was doing. And I think when you feel like you have something you're really good at, it makes you feel a bit more empowered to do other things and to connect with other people

and feel like you can take up space because you feel like, oh, I have something that I've shown everyone that I'm really good at. I think that is such a great point. And I completely agree with you. I was a really shy kid growing up and massively interested and still am to this date in many circles, but my parents forced me

to go to public speaking drama school. And so I would go for three hours a day, three days a week, so nine hours a week, all year round. It's a lot of time. And as I improved in both those areas of my life, that's where I would feel at home. And now I started to have more confidence in different circles and you could move that around.

And I was speaking to my friend recently, one of my closest friends, his son's like 10 years old. And he was saying that he's struggling with confidence. And I said exactly what you just said. I was like, well, have you helped him get good at something? I was like, you know, what is he interested in? What's he naturally gravitating towards? That he could be encouraged encouraged in further because that would empower him, as you said. Exactly. And I think that's such a beautiful thing because we don't know what to validate

a self-thru in my kids. But hearing you reflect back on it makes sense. But I'm guessing at that time, there was a lot of stress. I mean, being a young kid who's parents are divorcing like, like you said, like your mother's also experiencing mental health and drug abuse. Like, how were you making sense of that? Like, what helped you? It was hard to make sense of it. And I parted my way of dealing with what was going on

with my mother was to try to ignore it, honestly. And so I would pour myself into school, pour myself into music, pour myself into music, pour myself into these things that kept me busy so I didn't think about everything that was happening in my family. And my dad did a great job of helping us, guiding us through it. We had a lot of extended family in our community, cousins, aunts, uncles, who helped fill in the gaps as well. And then we had people at school.

I had a guidance counselor, who he was one of the only black men that worked at my school. And he really decided to take me and my older brother under his wing. And just was really helpful in just figuring out school, figuring out how to get into college,

all these other things that my parents didn't really know how to help us with We just were fortunate to have other people fill in the gap You know, they say it takes a village to raise a child and I think a lot of times when your parents aren't able to give you everything that you need It's good to have other people in your life that can do it. Yeah, especially now. I feel like I Feel like there's so I'm not a parent yet of course you are, but it's a there's so much pressure on two people to be everything to these new human beings. And what you realize is that you know you don't have to be everything. It's great to have other people around you, a village or community. That's one of the things that was so difficult about the pandemic was that feeling that

you didn't have that community support that most people will normally have, that feeling of being disconnected and separated from a lot of people, despite all the technological ways that you can get in touch with them, it's nice to be in presence with people.

And I think when people didn't have that, we were seeing the results of it with a lot of kids learning loss and following behind in school. And there's a lot of things that you just can't do remotely that you need that community support to do. Yeah, no, absolutely. I want to give a shout out to our community for staying with us through the pandemic because for me Sitting with someone like this face to face Even for an interview. It's like the connection that you have with someone as opposed to through a screen

Yeah, it's just incomparable. It's different and We we made the most of what we had to do during that time But clearly it's preferable to be in person. And I think particularly for kids, as they're trying to learn, they need them. Yeah, did you have to, you said then, I think you're so right, like as kids, we ignore stuff like that, we try and avoid it, we try and, you know, we have to,

we, and I loved what you said, you poured yourself into your music, poured yourself into school, and that's why outlets, artistic outlets are so fantastic to have as young people. Did you ever have to revisit it? Did you feel like it naturally just improved? There were changes, or did you ever have to revisit that as an adult to be like, do I need, did you ever feel the need for any healing, or did you feel that just naturally kind of

came to a loss? Well, we needed to heal. We needed to forgive our mother because we felt we needed to forgive our mother because we felt abandoned by her. Wow. She eventually got sober, came back to her family, she healed in a lot of ways as well, and you know, recovered in a lot of ways. And we still had to deal with forgiving her though because I think when you feel let down by your parent, part of what you need to do for your own growth is figure out how to forgive them and how to love them and not be held back by whatever resentment or anger or disappointment you might feel because

if you continue to hold on to it, it actually hinders you as much or more than it hinders anyone else. The person that may be the object of your forgiveness, that's great to forgive them, but it's just as important for you because that's the best way for you to go on and live the best life that you can live is to get that weight off of your shoulder that you're holding on to. Did you know there are currently over 2.4 million podcasts in the world, including the one you're listening to right now? It takes a team of people to help bring these podcasts together.

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And it's almost hardest doing that with our parents, because when we're young, you kind of see them as the person who is meant to be the caregiver and the safety. Yeah, and I think the letdown is bigger. Traumatic. Yeah, it's dramatic because you expect them to, you know, they're supposed to have all the answers, they're supposed to do the right things, they're supposed to show you the way

to do it. And then when they, when we realize they're not infallible and then they fall from grace in our eyes, I think the disappointment is even greater. Yeah, but I love that point you're making that there's there's two sides and you got to experience the beauty of your mother's growth and transformation and change. But it's like that person's like, I'm back. Yeah, and you're like, you're like, oh, okay, you don't know like you've gotten used to dealing with not being with them and not having them in your life.

And my parents got remarried during this time and that was weird. So it was like a lot of dealing with all those feelings, dealing with forgiveness, wondering how to adjust to having that person back in your life, all of that. It was very interesting. Yeah, mine was kind of the opposite.

We're like like I was encouraging my parents as a 10-year-old to get a divorce. So I was seeing an experiencing and they would both tell me about what was going on. I'd be like I think you guys should separate because I want you both to be happy. Yeah. And we'll be happy and then they stayed together until like three years ago. Okay. They never separate until now. And I feel like there's so much happier and fulfilled because of it, but they would think they were staying together for the kids.

And as a kid, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like I don't think this is real. That's so interesting. Well, yeah, I think when my parents got divorced both times, it was the right thing. They got divorced twice, so they're not together now. My dad's remarried and my mom hasn't. But, both times, I think it was the right thing to do.

I wasn't actively encouraging it when I was younger. It was traumatic for me when I was younger. But, it was the right thing to do. Yeah. How are you finding that now being a parent yourself? What are the parts of this journey that kind of influence your approach now because you are aware that we are not perfect

to any one of us? Yeah, I'm not aware we're not perfect, but I do feel, I think Chrissy and I both really believe in the idea of creating stability in our home for our kids, showering them with love and encouragement, teaching them about what it means to be kind, what it means to be loving, what it means to be generous, what it means to be passionate about something and pursue it.

All of those things we want for them, and we want them to see in us a loving relationship that teaches them what love is supposed to feel like and what is supposed to be like. I want us to be a great example of what love means for them and how they should expect a partner to treat them, how they should treat their partner. I want to be a good example for them and I think Chrissy does too. And yeah, I don't want to get divorced. I know that. Yeah, yeah. Like I really, truly, you know, and you've come from a situation where you're like, well, they should have gotten divorced is the right thing for them to do. But, but also I'm like, oh, I really want a stable home for our kids. Totally. And I want them to be surrounded by love and to see in us an example of what love means.

And hopefully we can maintain that for decades and decades to come. Like I want us to be grandparents having them over for Sunday dinner. And like I want that for us. Yeah, I wish that for you too. Definitely. That's beautiful. And I don't disagree with you. I think the point you made there is so clear that you want what stability means. And I think what sometimes adults don't recognize

as staying together is unstable. Sometimes it is. Sometimes. But there's always gonna be some instability, instability of course. But I think that's the challenge. Like we usually see togetherness as stability and breaking up as instability. But often if two people are together, but it's causing more stress for everyone else.

I am Yomla and on my podcast, the R-Spot, we're having inspirational, educational and sometimes difficult and challenging conversations about relationships. They may not have the capacity to give you what you need. And insisting means that you are abusing yourself now. You human! That means that you're crazy as hell, just like the rest of us. When a relationship breaks down, I take copious notes and I want to share them with you. Anybody with two eyes and a brain knows that too much Alfredo sauce is just no good for

you. But if you're going to eat it, they're not going to stop you. So he's going to continue to give you the Alfredo sauce and put it even on your grits if you don't stop him? Listen to The R Spot on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season.

And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets. The depths of them, the variety of them, continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me,

this is who and what I am. I needed her to help me. Something was gnawing at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt somehow that there was a piece missing. Why not restart? Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oh, pro. Everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant. The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters.

Kevin Haw. It's not about us as a generation at this point. It's about us trying our best to create change. Luminous Hamilton. That's for me being taken that moment for yourself each day. Being kind to yourself. Because I think for a long time I wasn't kind to myself. And many, many more.

If you're attached to knowing, you don't have a capacity to learn. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw, real-life stories behind their journeys. And the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. That's true.

And there's definitely circumstances like that. God forbid that happens to us. No, no, no, no, definitely, no. And by the way, it's so interesting what you're saying because I literally just spoke, I just interviewed Dr. Gabal Matey, it's so interesting what you're saying, because I literally just spoke, I just interviewed Dr. Gabon Matei, and he's like a healing and trauma expert and research, and he's like in his 70s,

that thing, really. And so he's been doing this his whole life, like looking at trauma, looking at addiction, looking at children, and he literally just said, what you just said, where he's like, you can't love your kids too much. Like, you know, giving them a safe, loving environment.

And I think for a long time, I confused love and safety. And I realized like safety was really what you needed as a child. Yes, you really do. Yeah, I really truly believe that. And we want to have them feel safe and surrounded by love and care. It doesn't mean you don't want to allow them to make mistakes,

but you do want them to feel like they can make mistakes in safety. And I think when people feel unsafe, it contributes to fear, contributes to trauma, and a lot of things that make their responses unhealthy as they get older because if they're dealing with so much fear and danger in their lives, it affects the way they respond to stimuli, it affects the way they deal with fight or flight and all these things that kind of,

these mechanisms at your body has to deal with trauma and fear, like if they get activated too much, then it's hard for them to cope with life. Yeah, absolutely. When someone's as exceptional as you are at what you do, I want to hear about like, what was the hardest part about getting that good? Like when was it challenging to pick up an instrument or learn an element of music? Like, was it just so natural and effortless that it's always been that way?

There's always effort and I think part of it is like figuring out what you want to specialise in, what you want to do really well. I play the piano pretty well but I I'm not like an expert concert pianist. Like, I've seen what they can do, and I can't do it. And I got good enough at the piano to accompany myself, to accompany others, to write, and to perform live. But people that focus on playing the piano are much better at playing the piano than I am. What I've chosen to focus on is being the best singer-songwriter that can be. So I spend a lot of time focusing on my voice, focusing on songwriting.

So those are the two most important things for me and those are the things that I spend the most time and energy on. And it's not easy to write songs and it doesn't come automatically, but I've developed ways of getting to that point where I'm pretty good at writing a song. Even my worst songs are pretty good. That didn't come automatically though. It came through just writing a lot, listening to a lot of music, but also writing a lot of

music, and trying different ideas, seeing them work, and collaborating with other people who push me and bring out the best to me and give me new ideas. All of that made me a better writer, but it wasn't easy and it wasn't automatic. Yeah, there's often a perception that people have that the way you write songs or whatever is that when someone's going through emotional turmoil, their artistic expression is heightened. And then when their external circumstances are less stressful, it can be harder to find creativity.

Is that true? Is that accurate or have you found that you can always, or you have a method to always tap it? Because your songs are like, your lyrics are highly emotive. Your songs are about real issues in your life. It doesn't matter whether your external life has changed. How have you continued to be able to access that? Because I think some people think, oh, when my life was hard, I wrote my best music. And now that my external life is simpler, because there's no easy life. My external life is simple. I there's no easy life, my external life is simple,

I kind of find it harder to access. I've gotten so experienced at writing that I can turn it on pretty much at any point, but one of the ways I do that is by bringing other people in the room. And so that way, you're not always relying on your own inspiration, which may be hard to summon sometimes. And I think because I've been such a promiscuous collaborator, it enables me to stay refreshed

as a creative person because even if I don't immediately have an idea, I could be in a room with someone who does, and then I can bounce off of that, build on that, and we can create something together. And then I also have quite a bit of methodology around my songwriting that makes it easier for me to tap into my creativity and tap into that inspiration, so that when I have it, I'm able to go from inspiration to completion in a way that's tried and true for me. And that's why I spend a lot of time

on in the master classes, just explaining, like this is my methodology for writing a song. The inspiration is gonna come from different places. Sometimes it comes just from a dream about a song and I sing it into my phone and remember it that way, record it for later and then go to completion when I go back to the studio and sit down to write. But either way, the inspiration is going to come at some point.

Sometimes it's just a riff that somebody else plays or a beat that someone else plays. And then it leads me into a vocal melody and a vocal melody leads me into a feeling of like, this is what this song feels like to me. This is what the story is that I wanna tell. And then I know how to build a song pretty easily from those kind of seeds of ideas.

And yeah, that's what I spend a lot of time on in the Masterclasses, just teaching that once you get this seed of an idea, here's how you take it to a complete song. And it works really well for me because it makes it so that I can write once I have the idea right pretty quickly. Yeah, and I think I want to unpack that for everyone

because I think from anyone that I've sat down with who I believe is extremely high performing in their space, obviously everyone on a masterclass is at that level in their field. And then when I've sat down with people like Kobe Bryant as well, or like, no, Vagio, Kovic, or Jennifer Lopez, it's like everyone always talks about this balance

with what you're saying perfectly is like, there's inspiration and then there's regulation. There's like actual methods and process structure. It's like, we all think that there's a magic moment, which it sounds like there is. But then that magic needs to turn into a method in order to actually turn into something beautiful Absolutely and the people that you were referring to like Kobe He was so naturally gifted so he had this God-given gift to be this amazing athlete, but God-given gift to be this amazing athlete. But he took the gift, which some people have, and don't maximize it like he did, he took that gift and worked so hard, practiced so hard.

It's been so much time in the gym. Like, there needs to be more to your ability than this natural ability. It needs to be cultivated, it needs needs to be honed it needs to be practiced and with songwriting I've gotten to that point where it's not just oh I haven't give for music oh I can sing oh I have a good ear it's oh I've spent a lot of time honing my craft as a songwriter and it helps me figure out how to take this idea and make it a song that works. And I love how everyone's different. Like I completely agree with you.

Like when I'm doing this, it's like even though I'm not in the same field as you, you could say something. I'm like, oh, I need to do more of that. I think, I mean, when you, when Kobe passed, I spent a lot of time just thinking about just like what it takes to be someone like him And I think it really inspired me. It's like you really like if you want to be great If you want to be like world-changingly great at something you got to put in the time and energy to do that And it can be

Inspiring to see examples of that in the world and then say yeah, I want to be more like that Yeah, well even when you're giving the example of when you're in the studio and you're bringing people in, like for me, the podcast is like that. Like I sit down with people that I'm not in the field of a tour. Yes. And I get to be like, oh, that's how they do in their field. How can I apply that? Yes.

To mine. And I think that's what Mosscloth does. Great. But because we had Russ on the rapper and he was talking about the opposite where he was like, I don't like having anyone in the room with me. Because if people are in the room with me, then I don't get to be silly, or I don't get to be totally expressive.

So he said to us, he was like, I get rid of everyone, and then I make weird sounds into the microphone to see what works for me, whereas if my boys were there, he was saying if my boys were there, he was like, they're all laugh at me. Yeah.

And so I'm wondering, who do you like having around you like? Could you give us an example of some people that you've sat with that you're like, and they don't have to be even people that we know. There could be other people behind the scenes. But someone that you're like, oh, yeah, when they're in the room, they kind of spot me this way or that way. Well, I take his point as saying, you don't want people around that aren't totally bought in creatively because you want people in the room that are in there to create something beautiful with you.

And if they're there to be like, you're kind of what my sense is, I don't know him and I don't know his friends. But what my sense is that he's saying like, he might want to be too cool around them. Yes. And if he's too cool around them, he may not come up with the best art. And I think it's important to have, I don't have random people in the studio when we write. Like I have only writers in the studio and we just sit there and vibe off of each other and see where the vibe takes us. And hopefully everybody's bought in to the idea that we just want to make something amazing and something beautiful and something interesting and something that's a great song.

And they're not worried about being cool, not worried about anything else other than let's make this great. That idea of being around people that you're okay to make mistakes around, feel us around. That's the kind of people you want in the room. And we just try things and I try not to have an ego about my ideas. So that means if like I, I do a thing called a mumble track usually where I just mumble a melody and see if we like it.

And some of the other writers in the room may do the same thing. And I'm like, oh, I like their idea better than mine. And I think you need to have that openness to other people's ideas, that humility, when you're a collaborator. And so I think part of what I'm really good at is that spirit of collaboration.

So I understand that all the great ideas don't need to come from me. And that I can benefit from this other energy and creativity in the room and be open to it, you know? and that I can benefit from this other energy and creativity in the room and be open to it, be humble enough to receive it and not think that it all has to come from me. Yeah, egolessness is hard though.

That's like, especially as you become more successful, I think that's something people struggle with because you have to trust yourself to some degrees. So how did you... Well, I think so, the interesting thing about ego is the people that you think of that have big egos also very insecure. So it's like, it's very interesting thing

about that combination of the inflated ego and the heightened insecurities at the same time. And it can be very debilitating when that's the issue because a lot of times when you hear well this artist, whenever they come they won't let you look at them, they won't listen to that. And what I hear when I hear that is not, although they think so much so highly of them. So I think all they're pretty insecure probably. And so it's interesting thinking about that and what that means and what the kind of,

I don't know what the psychology is behind that, but it's an interesting combination that I've observed in the world is that people that are seen as having big egos and being difficult to work with are also usually pretty insecure. Exactly. I think you spot on when I started the show, when I started interviewing people, I noticed that too, where there was natural social anxiety. And a lot of people were just so used to being on when the camera was on.

That's when they came in a full force, when the camera was off, it's not that dating care, it's that they didn't even know how to connect because they've been so trained in that way. And so you're right, I think it's so interesting that from the outside, we can be like, oh, that person has an ego, or they're being arrogant, or they're, you know, they have a, they're bragadocious

or they have a good bottle, but it's not that. Yeah, my assumption is that they're probably insecure. That's usually my assumption. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's what I said. I've got to give you a bit of context before this next question because I, so my wife, we've been married for 10 years now.

Sorry, married for six has been together for 10 years. And she, my team was looking at the other day and she was reading a book. And they were like, oh, what are you reading? Because she'd taken the cover off and the can tell. And she was like, oh, I'm reading my husband's book. Like, it's in my book, which I wrote two years ago, now two and a half, two years ago.

And they were like, have you not read it? Like most of my teams read the book and she had it. And they were like, no, she was like, no, I never got around to it. You know, I read bits. So like, so my question is, I had Chris, he said something similar. We're like, she sees a name of a song and then she's like, wondering like, wait a minute, how did he call that the name

and the subject? Is she your number one finder? Is she listening to everything or do you often find that, like, she's catching up with everyone else? Well, she doesn't love hearing like demo versions of songs. So she doesn't like to kind of be in the sausage making part of the album. And so she'd rather hear it once, everything's done.

And so that ends up meaning that she's like learning about things when, you know, close to win a lot of other people are learning about them too. And so yeah, there are times where she's like, oh, news to me. She just doesn't like to be in early on the process because she's found, I think from when we first started dating that when she fell in love with the demo versions that we changed them so much that she didn't like, you know, kind of falling in love with the early versions because it kind of almost disappointed her

when the finished version was out because she felt like less connection to it. So she decided she just didn't want to be involved early on in the sauces making. Well, she has good reasoning. My wife just didn't have time for me. But I find that's interesting in couples, right? The idea of like, we were talking about being a good example as a couple

and trying to build that loving relationship. Like I find that in an immature stage in my relationship, I constantly wanted my wife to be my number one fan. Like there was a time where I was like, I wanted to read everything and listen to everything and watch everything and share everything. And like, this I'm talking about like, maybe like seven, eight years ago.

And then as time went on I just started to realize I was like well she's not with me for those things right like she can support them and appreciate that. But she's living with the real me and is experiencing that like I guess my question is like how do couples appreciate and admire each other in an effective way when often we just lean on our partner for validation and glorification often. Yeah, I still really want Christy to be into my work. I love it. And I think more so, because it just feels good to know that she has good taste and she loves music and that she likes something I did. Like, you know, I'm like, that's awesome.

And I want her to love it. And I respect her a lot. And I trust her a lot. And I feel like she has good taste. So if she likes something I did, and she especially likes it, then that's a really good sign for me. Yeah.

So it feels good. Like, it's not that I'm insecure about it. Is that like, I really want her to love it. Yeah. I want everyone to love it, I really want her to love it. Yeah. I want everyone to love it, but I want her to love it more. I know, I'm the same. I was doing something recently, but my wife's also the person that will give the most honest feedback.

Yes. Like, I will practice a presentation or whatever I'm doing in front of her and she will just pick it apart. But I know she's doing it out of love because she also wants me to be incredible at what I do. And we help each other so much. And we believe in each other and we support each other so much. So, you know, when she's working on a cookbook, I'm, you know, helping her. I'm tasting stuff. I'm doing whatever I can to help. And, you know, we collaborate on a lot of business things together. So there's a lot we do together, but she doesn't like to be in the weeds

of my music creating career, but she goes a lot of my shows. She always has feedback for, how we can put the show together better, be more effective at the set list and arrangements and different things like that. She has ideas about how it should look and she's giving me great feedback over the years on that kind of stuff. So I'm always happy when

she's proud of me and when she's excited. That's when I feel very like, okay, we're doing something right here. Yeah, no, I can relate to that too. If I do something in my wife's happy, it's a different, it's a different format. Like my Vegas show, like I'm so proud of it, but it was especially good for me to hear that she was so proud of it. And so excited to show her friends and tell people about it, because it was like, it's an extra good feeling when she says that. Yeah, definitely. No, I really, and I think the question came from, I think it feeling when she says that. Yeah, definitely. No, I really, and I think the question came from,

I think it was when she said something about when she saw the song title, I don't love you like I used to. I don't love you like I used to. Yeah, yeah, and that's an interesting song. It's a great song. It's good. For a couple, because it's like, when you go through things together, you learn more about each other.

Totally. You grow and it's not the same kind of love you had when you first met. When we first met, we were very attracted to each other. Our chemistry was great, but that level of attraction is more like infatuation at the beginning of a relationship and love when of a relationship and love when it is able to stand the test of time, it has to be deeper and more like more real than that. We've been through enough together where it's like really fortified us and made us stronger and those tests have made us grow together and you know realize things about each other that we didn't know and going through all of that makes you be able to write and sing a

song called I don't love you like I used to it's different now but it's better Yeah I love that song because I felt the same way I was just like that is such a great title because you're like oh no what's going on and they? And they're like, no, actually, it's true. Yeah. And I think the challenge with love is that we we've been programmed to believe that it should stay the same. Yeah. We've been programmed to believe that you should go recreate your first date and everything

should feel like your first date. And it's almost like, well, what if it got better? You know, what if there's more? What would you like when you met Chrissy and how have you evolved? Do you think as a as a as a human, as a person? What has evolved and grown about you in a positive way? Well, I think I was more selfish than, like I wasn't a great partner at the beginning

of our relationship, even though I was very into her and very excited to be with her. Like I was still selfish. I was in my mid 20s, still like, you know, not ready to fully be like the committed partner that I am now. But you know, once you really figure out

that you love someone and you're really like love so much about them and you really want to make it work with that person. Like you have to decide, like I'm going to do the things I need to do to be a good partner in this relationship and I've just grown as a person because of that too because when you stop being so selfish,

when you think about not only the joy you get from a situation and the pleasure you get from it, but also think about your responsibility and your commitment in that situation. I think you just grow and you mature and that's, you know, I think part of it's just a matter of time. You need time to be come that person that you want to be thinking you're mid-20s, you're still dealing with impulse control, you're still dealing with selfishness, you're still figuring out what you want to do in your career, all these things are happening. But when you figure those things out, you can just be a better person in general. And I think it makes you better at other things too, when you're able to understand that balance between what you're trying to get from a relationship,

but also what you need to give to make it work. Yeah, what did you think that you didn't value about her in the beginning but today, like, oh, I noticed that more now. Like, I didn't even get that at that time because of my immaturity or earlyness. Well, I feel like I've just learned so much about her personality, how she reacts to stress, how she reacts to life, how she can find a joke, even in like the craziest,

even in grief, like she's able to find humor. And like, I feel like you see so many things about your partner as you grow together and as you experience adversity together. And what I've seen from her just made me love her more and value her more. Like, I think she's cooler now than I've ever thought she was. Like, I just really have seen her in all kinds of situations. I just value her more and all of her more than I ever had been. Not too long ago, in the heart of the Amazon rainforest, this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life. I saw it and I saw, oh wow, this is a very unusual situation.

It was cacao. The tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen, or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun bite. I mean, you saw this tax of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate.

We're all lost. It was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind, so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle, and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building arm with machetes.

And we've heard all sorts of things that you know somebody got shot over this. Sometimes I think, oh, all this for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions, wild chocolate, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A good way to learn about a place is to talk to the people that live there.

There's just this sexy vibe and Montreal, this pulse, this energy. What was meant is seen as a very snotty city. People call it Bos Angeles. New Orleans is a town that never forgets its past. A great way to get to know a place is to get invited to a dinner party. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum and not lost is my new travel podcast where a friend and I go places, see the sights, and try to finagle our way into a dinner party

where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. I would love that, but I have like a Cholala who is aggressive towards strangers. I love the dogs. We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but we also learn about ourselves. I don't spend as much time thinking about how I'm going to die alone when I'm traveling,

but I get to travel with someone I love. Oh, see, I love you too. And also, we get to eat as much... Three cents here. I love you too. My life's a lot of therapy goes behind that. You're so white, I love it. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, full in love, make mistakes, and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships, and much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences, incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science, and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life. Join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about.

From the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our 20s. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg, now streaming on the iHot Radio app, Apple podcasts or whatever, you get your podcasts. That's beautiful, that's great. I wish the same for my merits too. It's, let me go. I wish it for everyone's honesty.

I love love, I went to two weddings this weekend. Oh wow. And like, I truly, like, I can, when I'm at these weddings, like I genuinely get emotional and I genuinely feel like joy for this couple in embarking on this journey together. And I love celebrating that. I love seeing it flourish and seeing people who are committed to each other, make it work. Like, I love seeing it flourish and seeing people who are committed to each other, make it work. Like, I love it. Yeah, no, me too. I love love too.

I've just written a whole new book about love. It comes out next year, but it's like, I officiated two weddings in the last 12 months. And the difference, the pressure and the honor of doing that, my whole thought person head is don't cry. Don't cry, because I love love so much. And all I wanna do is cry and just appreciate the moment. I haven't had to do it any wedding.

I was like, do no, I've sung quite a few. Yeah, I can do it. But yeah, I got emotional this weekend, and I think part of it is being a dad to now, because when I watched the brides, dad walk her down the aisle, I got super emotional. I was just thinking about my daughter and thinking about my son and just thinking about, you know, just what it means to pour all this love into these little people and then to watch them grow up and experience life and

find love. It was beautiful. That's amazing. I love that. And you mentioned grief and then you, the song, Pieces and the new album. There's the beautiful lyric, let your broken heart learn to live in Pieces. And I literally just haven't stopped thinking about that because I think that there's so much about us

that's constantly trying to get everything to fit and even with a heart we're trying to become whole again, like there's always that concept, but you're like, let your broken heart learn to live in pieces. Like where did that come from? Like that idea. The idea of the song is that we never completely shed or forget this trauma that we make out through in life, this loss, this heartbreak, like, we'll remember it. There'll be times when we'll feel those pains of memory that it'll come back. It doesn't mean you can't heal, it doesn't mean you can't recover, but it does mean that that

grief will still be a part of who you are, a part of your story effectively recovering from that means not forgetting it, not that it didn't happen, but learning to live with it, and learning to continue to live with it, and experience life, and joy, and pain, and all the things that come in life afterwards, continue to like live on, despite the fact that this grief

won't ever leave you completely. Yeah, it's almost like we're asking the wrong question. Where it was like, how do I move on? How do I get over this? And you're saying, well, I'm saying you're gonna carry it. It's part of your life now. It's part of your story, part of who you are.

Like I said, with Chrissy, like I've seen so much growth through our grief and through our tragedy, it's always going to be part of who we are. And I'm fine with that. Like it's part of who we are. It's we carry it with us and it's okay. Yeah. And I'm sorry for your loss.

And I'm like, you know, you know that I mean I don't think there's pretty much anything harder to go through than yeah I've never been through anything harder but it just means you know when you live long enough you're gonna go through something like that and figuring out how to continue to live as you carry that with you. Is what the song's really about? Yeah, and often we find that those traumatic and difficult experiences can break people apart, but you focus on growing closer together. What do you think is that difference?

Your values are so clear. I can tell in this interview, values of children, a family, a lot of kindness of connection. How do you in moments like that? Is it that your values just drive you forward or like how do you make sure? Because I think sometimes people just have experiences

that derail their everything else that's going right. Yeah, and I don't know because like, I think part of it is just we were already on a great foundation where we really respected and loved and enjoyed being with each other, respect each other's values and the ways, you know, the things that we saw in each other's character that we fell in love with or still there. But I think you also have to like commit to working through pain, you know, and I think we both committed to doing it, like doing the work that we needed to do to get through it.

Yeah, I'm happy to hear that. And my prayers and I think we were just really in the middle of the day because... Yeah, and I think having already had two kids together was definitely helpful because they just bring so much joy into our lives and laughter and fun and they're a great focus for our energy. And so even when you're going through deep grief on losing a pregnancy, you still have these two beautiful babies that you love. And I think that was certainly helpful.

Now the questions are moving into a selfish space where I'm asking just for me now. So how have you managed like what have you know you've ever said this beautiful relationship you've got you've got two beautiful children that you both love and you know when I think about me and my wife like we also spend a lot of time saying look let's stabilize our relationship first before we think about having kids because we don't want to invite beautiful new souls into a relationship where we're not sure where we're going or how we're working together. How have you managed to be so career focused and successful and keep a relationship successful with this? Because I find a lot of people having children can be the most stressful time of their life.

It's stressful. I mean, first of all, we're very fortunate. We have lots of people around us to help us. We can afford, you mean, first of all, we're very fortunate. We have lots of people around us to help us. We can afford, you know, childcare. We can afford a lot of things that there are plenty of families that can't afford. Having that is no small thing. Like those having help, having my mother-in-law around,

having, you know, grandparents around to help, is like all these things are very helpful, and they alleviate some of the stress and make it easier for parents to balance it. But yeah, I do think you have to be ready to take on that responsibility. I think a lot of times, you know, it's about figuring out is that the right time in both of your careers to do it, particularly for the woman, like it can be very difficult to

figure out when that can be because particularly in America, we don't have a lot of leave that's available for maternal or paternal leave, that's available for a lot of families, and there's all kinds of obstacles in the way that make it harder for people to be working parents. And so I think a lot of people are making decisions about when half kids based on that. And that's a real like practical consideration that needs to be figured out for you to be able to handle it. Because a lot of the stress around parenting is around having the resources and the childcare that you need. And when that's not right, it can be stressful, it can be stressful on your marriage, it can be stressful on so many other things. And so yeah, and my prescription, that all those things need to be in order

is like a hard prescription to fill though because it's like, it takes resources, it takes family, it takes everything being aligned and everything's not gonna be perfect for so many families and they're still going to want to bring a life into the world and yeah, it's a challenge. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think those things changing, I mean, when I was born and raised in London and so when

I worked there, like the maternity leave and the paternity leave was fantastic. I mean, it could be even better, but it was great. It was like at least six months and then you could extend for another six months if you needed it and it was not to be nerdy But like these are policy things that can affect people's decisions. You know, we're having a lot of Conversation around reproductive rights and whether the state can force people to have kids and what I think are conservative fellow citizens should realize is that people sometimes would like to have kids, but they're not in a place to be able to afford it or take care of it. And so if there are policy solutions, like child tax credits, free

child care, that would make it more likely that people would choose to have kids. And I think there's so many families that could use that kind of support. And I feel like one way that we could come together, conservatives and progressives, they say, if you really believe in this idea that families are important as like a foundation for our society, and you wanna do things to support people having children in their lives and building families. Like one way to do that is make sure

they have the resources to make that choice in a way that they can handle it, and their family can handle it. Yeah, is that one of the areas that you've been focused on as you were speaking about earlier with? Has that been an area of focus for you? Well, this is something I think about all the time. So I think about it when it comes to our schools, making sure our schools have the resources that they need,

making sure our communities have the resources they need. And it's kind of the impetus behind my entire political inclination is how do we make our society more livable, more loving, more just, more equitable, and how do we support folks who don't have the resources they need right now, how do we make sure they get those resources. And so a lot of times, my work has been about the criminal justice system, but what I like to do is point out the choices that we make around criminal justice and how they are resource choices as well.

They're more interconnected. Yes, they're more connected because when we spend so much of our societal energy and resources and budgets on policing and locking people up that necessarily precludes us from investing that money in other things. And so my advocacy work has really been around, let's invest in these things that are edifying, that are building, that are productive, that are loving, that are just, and not invest as much as we have in the things that are more destructive and more about the state monopolizing force and violence

through policing and jailing people. Thank you so much for going nerdy on it. It was good. We had to. No, it's important. I think it is important to see the interconnectedness of a value of family man, children, and then how that actually scales up to an economy and a society, because we can have these in our small units, but it needs to change it. And I get into arguments with friends of mine who are close with and they'll see these

news stories about crime going up and robbery is going up and they always kind of default to what we just got to punish people more, like make them scared to do these kinds of things. And what I'm always thinking about is, well, how do we create a society where just less of that is happening? How do we create a society where just less of that is happening? How do we create a society where people are healthier, they have the resources they need, they're not homeless, they're not addicted to drugs, and when they are, they're being treated and not punished. Like, how do we create society like that?

And then a lot of these issues with violence and with property crimes and all these other things, they'll go down if we're investing in the kind of preventative measures that would make us healthier in general. Yeah, absolutely. You were speaking about the journeys of people from everyone that you were homeschooled around or in your community, the journey that you've taken is, I'm guessing obviously that's very unique.

It's very different. When you look back on your life now, it's like, A, what's there? What keeps you going? And when you look back, what do you look back at and go? That was really special and that was beautiful and that was something that I always cherish. What keeps me going, well, part of it is just the joy

I get from creating new things. It's a very like amazing sense of gratification that you get when you walk into a room and nothing exists except you know, loose ideas in your head. And then a few hours later, like you walk out with this new thing that exists. It's a song. And like a few hours later, like you walk out with this new thing that exists. It's a song. And like, that song could be the one that changes your life. It could mean something to all kinds of other people. I just, uh, at the wedding, I went

to one of the weddings. I went to this weekend. Some guys said, I went to your show and it actually saved my marriage. And like, I could be writing that song and then save someone's marriage tomorrow. And the fact that I get to go to work and create something brand new that didn't exist before is such a joy. And I truly, like, I wanna do it all the time. Yeah. That keeps me going.

Yeah. And then being on stage is really exciting for me and fun. I love the connection I feel with the audience. I love when the show just feels like everybody's clicking on all cylinders. We're doing this together. We've got band members, dancers, singers. Everybody came together to put the show on and we get it right and we feel the energy from the crowd and we feel the love from the crowd and we're giving it to them.

They're giving it back and we feel this connection and this chemistry, this energy that we're all creating together. I love it. I truly love it and I want to do it as long as people will listen to me. I think it's going to be a long time. Who's someone that you spoke about collaborations? Who's someone that's no longer with us that you would have loved to have collaborated with in person or that you think it have like brought something out of you that need a Simone. I'm a big Nina Simone fan. I named my daughter Luna Simone after her and and I um have always loved her artistry and I would just love to jam with her. It would be so fun.

She's such a great musician and has such a cool approach to arranging songs. She always did such interesting covers of songs too. She would do the definitive cover of so many songs, just because her musicianship and her point of view is so interesting. I would love to just soak in that for a little while. Yeah, and what about someone who's alive

that you haven't collaborated with, or someone that you find inspiring in any field of music or Kendrick Lamar I love I just want to see his show Like I've worked with almost every rapper in history But Kendrick I'm truly a fan of and I went to go see his show this weekend and Love his new album love all of his albums. I just think the level of artistry and care that he puts into everything It's just so impressive. He's one of my favorite artists in any genre right now

I think he's just incredible. I love that when you're working on an album like how much Because you're someone who works consistently on an album for a long amount of time before it comes out right like there's not always new music all the time. What kind of in that creative process, like how do you stay inspired in the ups and downs and the ups and flows of a long creative process, which is rare nowadays, like when you say, we got something like Kendrick, right?

Like everyone talks about Kendrick, is someone who work on an album for a couple of years, which used to be the norm and it's for... It's still the norm for me, like... Yeah, that's what I mean, yeah. So I feel like making an album is about a two-year process for me, and I try to put them out every two or three years. But you're not always going to be inspired every day,

but there's always another day. And most albums around an hour or a little bit less, a little bit more. I did a double album this time. It's an hour, 20 minutes. But over a two-year period, I'm'm gonna have enough inspiration to make an hour. Yeah, that's right. So there will be days when you don't feel it.

And like I said, one of my best ways of combating any kind of writer's block is having other energy around me and other creative people in the room so that I feel like I can get inspired by things that are outside of my own head. And so I think that's important, scheduling the time to write, I think it's important rather than just kind of waiting around for inspiration randomly to hit. Because you need, I think you need to actively summon that rather than just kind of hoping it'll,

it's gonna knock you over the head every once in a while. You need to actively summon it. And so for me, scheduling the time is important too. Yeah, do you have any like weird quirks or habits to help summon that moment or like some kind of things that you need around you or any items or things you need to see or is it more like just scheduling planning structure.

And then you want the inspiration to come and like it could come from a movie you saw or just a line from the movie. Inspiration could come from a song you listen to in the car on the way to the studio. Inspiration could come from just a random conversation you had where just this line like stuck out to you. And then like I said before a lot of its due collaboration so a producer may come in and he have a track or she'll have a track and play it for you and it's just music but it speaks to you and you'll feel something from it and then build a song from that. And so those are different ways the inspiration

comes. What's been the difference about the first day when you stepped into a studio like to now when you step in like what were the emotions and the feelings then? What's changed? What stayed the same? Well, I think I have a better understanding of what I want to do now when I go into studio. I think before I just had less creative confidence I think and I've earned it through just work. Time, work, repetition, I've just written a lot and when I walk into studio now I just feel like I know how to write a song, I know how to write a really good song and I just need to like work on it. I need to

spend the time, spend the energy and do all those things to get inspired, like I said before, and then I'll figure it out. Yeah, John, you've been so gracious with your time and energy. Thank you. I have loved this conversation. This is fun. We've gone everywhere, like, we're just,

we're talking about relationships, we're talking about children, we're talking about your child, like it's been so beautiful. We end every episode with two segments. One's a fast five, quick question. So one word to one sentence on says maximum. Okay. And then I'll tell you by the other one.

So John Legend, these are your fast five. All right. Question number one, what's the best advice you've ever received? I love Quincy Jones advice. He says, still from the best. Nice. That means, you know, be open to being influenced

and like take some of that. Yeah. That's great. know, be open to being influenced and like, take some of that. Yeah, that's great. Like, listen to different artists that you love and like, think about how to incorporate their artistry into what you do. And I think the more, I know this is longer than I said. It's good, it's a good one. But I think the more you do it, you just start to develop who you are, but it's informed and inspired by all your influences.

Yeah, love that answer. You're allowed. It's good. You're allowed to go. Question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever heard or received? I don't know. I don't really catalog bad advice. One thing we laughed about was Kanye didn't like the title ordinary people for a song. Wow, yeah, yeah, of course. He changed his mind after a while. At first, he's like, I don't think he was like, can you come up with a better...

But it went out that way, you never got changed. No, never got changed. Yeah, never got changed. Yeah, never got changed. But it was his, he was like, can you come up with something better to say than that? But eventually he fell in love with it and ended up directing the video for it. And it became, you know, obviously, in a very important song at the beginning of my career.

But we always thought it was funny that he was like, I'm not sold in this ordinary people idea. I love that. Question number three, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore? Oh, I don't know. Well, I mean, we just go through different phases in life and I think I wanted, like, a certain kind of freedom when I was younger, when I was a bachelor and, you know, you like treasure this kind of freedom

and living like without as many commitments. But then you fall in love and you have kids with someone and then like the commitment and the responsibility is like life defining in so many ways. And you don't value that kind of freedom that you thought you wanted before. Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. We never had that answer before.

That's a special one. All right, question number four. The podcast is called on purpose. So how would you define your current purpose in life? My purpose is to bring love into the world. It's so much the core who I am artistically, but also politically, I think love is like, I'm not religious, love is my religion.

Yeah, that's beautiful. And fifth of final question for the Foss 5 is, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Yeah. Woof, one law. We ask this to every guest. You're getting us the same questions as every guest.

Oh, well, one habit to go back to love one another. Yes. Let's love each other. Yes. That's very Christian. It's like the part of our Jesus' two commandments were that you would love God and that you would love your neighbor as you loved yourself. And if you think about that idea of loving your neighbor as you loved yourself. And if you think about that idea of loving your neighbor as yourself, it's a pretty powerful idea. And if that were to guide our

behaviors and our politics and and and just the way we treated each other, it would be a, you know, pretty good world to live in. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. And and these ones are going to be shorter. This is a segment called the many sides to us. And so again, this can be one word for each one, literally one word. So what is a word to describe what someone would say about you meeting you for the first time? Calm. Definitely.

You were very calm when you came in today. I would have to agree with that. We walked over, you were very calm. Yeah, I don't have a lot of highs and lows. I'm very even keel through life, which can be frustrating, like as a partner, like Chrissy would like for me sometimes to be a little more dynamic,

but I think it's also like, it's a gift and a curse because when you're going through like tough times and you need stability and you need a rock around you I can be a rock Well, that's why you need the humor in this one tornado. Exactly. That's why we're good together Yeah, that's my wife to my wife's the spontaneous one. I'm the even guilt Well, that works for us. All right question number two

What's a word to describe what someone would describe you that knows you very well? I think honestly so much much of how my friends will describe me as that I'm an even, kill person that I'm a calming presence and that I don't have a lot of highs and lows. So I think people that first meet me think that people that know me for a long time think that as well. That's good. That's not a bad thing. Alright question number three.

What is the word this time you can't say the same answer. Okay. Because we're going't say the same answer. Because we're gonna say that the first two made sense. What is the word you'd use to describe yourself? Creative. I love to create and I love putting new things out into the world.

What's the word that someone that maybe doesn't agree with you would say about you? Well, let me think. Let me go to my Twitter mentions. Well, I think people that don't know me, you know, they know that I call myself John Legend. That was an assumed stage name. I wasn't born that. So they probably think I'm pretty arrogant.

I don't think I am, but I could give off that sense that I'm pretty arrogant. Right. Okay. Question number five, the last one, what's the word that you're trying, Tim Body? Love! Love. I love it. I'm legend, everyone.

The Masterclass on songwriting, John Legend teaches. Songwriting is available right now. I hope you go and subscribe to Masterclass genuinely. There's a phenomenal platform when you get access to all these incredible thinkers, leaders, teachers, guides. When you sign up, as I said, I've been a subscriber since Bob Aguiz and I cannot wait. I can I become a good songwriter, John? That is the question, even though... That's a good question. I feel like there has to be some level of foundational, musical understanding to use my class, but I think if you have that, it can be really helpful.

Well, I did grade five theory. I played piano up to grade four. Yes. And I used to play percussion, but I haven't done it since I was 12. And you may need like a collaborator, like instrumentalist like a guitarist or pianist with you to help you kind of have some music theory because I can't in my class I don't teach you a lot of like how to play the instrument of course, but I teach you how to take the knowledge that you have and Build a song from it. Absolutely. I love it. John. Well, I hope we get a bump into each other again Absolutely, Jay. This is a real true pleasure. Thank you you, man. Thank you so much for time and energy.

Great to meet you. Thank you. And everyone who's been listening and watching back at home or wherever you are if you're on the move, make sure that you tag John and I on Instagram on Twitter on TikTok. Let us know what stood out to you, what you learned, what you gained.

Maybe there was some amazing experiences that you didn't know anything about. I love seeing what you take away, what you learn, make sure you share that with both of us. And I'll see you at the next episode. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum, I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bond-vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things.

It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, try to get invited to a local's house for dinner, where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Munga Shatekler and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in major league baseball, international banks, kpop groups, even the White House.

But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me, and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season, and yet we're constantly discovering new secrets. The variety of them continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share ten incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. Listen to season eight of Family Secrets

on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.