On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Justin Baldoni: ON The Power of Reflection for Lifelong Relationships

Episode Date: August 19, 2019

On this episode of On Purpose, I sat down with Justin Baldoni. Justin is an American actor, director, and filmmaker most known for the show, Jane the Virgin, and directing his most recent film, Five Feet Apart. We discussed everything from what it takes to let a pure message pass through you, all the way to finding more nuanced alternatives to “toxic masculinity.” Justin brings a unique perspective to the table, with his Hollywood success and speaking on the TEDx stage. We also talked about how to deal with feeling excluded from the group, and what it takes as an adult to cope with those wounds that still have yet to fully heal.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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podcasts. Hey, it's Debbie Brown, host of the Deeply Well Podcast, where we hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your well-being journey. Deeply well is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Namaste. My heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Namaste.

Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Jemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The psychology of your 20s, hosted by me, Gemma Speg.

Listen now on the I Heart Radio Amp Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I still struggle with it today. I always felt like I wasn't included. Like I wasn't a part of the group. Like I wasn't a man. Like I wasn't man enough. Then suddenly I found myself being looked at

from a superficial lens as one of those guys. So I was inducted into the club because at some point in my early 20s, I finally grew into myself maybe, but it was never comfortable. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purper. I'm so grateful and appreciative of the fact that you take out time out of your days every single week to learn, to listen, to grow, and to focus on self-work and love in your life.

And you know that I'm committed to finding and bringing you the guests that I believe are living a life on purpose, that are doing things with a heart of service and wanting to have a meaningful impact in the world. And today's guest, I can truly say, is someone who's dedicated to that vision and that mission. He's a director, actor, producer, and entrepreneur and is focused on creating a service-based life through entertainment and media. He starts in the award-winning Jane The Virgin,

which many of you have probably seen or heard of and being fans and followers of, and also he's the founder of Wayfairer Entertainment. He's an incredible human being who I connected with, probably about a couple of years ago, but we've been trying to make this happen. So for me, this is a huge moment. I'm so grateful to have with me Justin Boerderne, Justin. Thank you for being here. I appreciate you so much, man.

No, I mean it. I'm really happy to be here. Of all the things that come my way, this was one that I was like, this has to happen because I appreciate the on-purpose aspect of everything that you do. And it's like, you know, this is it. This is why we do it, right? This is why we do everything. So thank you, man. No, thank you, man.

That means a lot coming from me, definitely. And I want to dive into so many areas of your life today. And I want you to start with what you just said now, like when did you get to that point where you realized everything was about service and on purpose, and how did you get there? I don't think I'm there. I think that's one of the things we'll probably uncover is I don't think we ever really get there.

I think that there have been moments in my life that were both caused by me making poor decisions that led me to a path that were both caused by me making Poor decisions that led me to a path of having no choice but to realize that this life is not about me And then there were things that happened that were just completely completely out of my control But I don't know if we ever get to a place where we realize that life's just about service because that's just not the way that the ego works And the way that our brains are built to work. So I feel like I'm every morning I wake up some days I get it and then there's some days that I don't. And the days that I don't,

it's about then making sure I wake up the next morning and seeing if I can get it. And I think that's just the journey that is life, right? It's just, no, I don't think we ever arrived. Maybe you've arrived. If anybody, maybe you have, but I definitely have not. So yeah, man, I think that it was a combination of a lot of things. So I'm with you. I've not arrived either. I completely agree with that. I think you have to, we have showers every day because we get dirty, we have to brush our teeth every day because they get dirty. We have to eat every day because we get hungry. And so we have to feed our souls and minds and consciousness every day too in the same way. In my faith there's a quote that says, at the end of each day we have to take ourselves and do account. And we have to look at all the things that we did that would be pleasing to God and then ask for strength to do better. And then look

at the things that we did that day that were about us and maybe would be displeasing and ask for the strength to do better, right? So we wanna repeat the things that we did well, but we want to do better and improve on the previous day. And that's it, little by little day by day, it's what we're told. So, you know, I'm glad. And both of those things that you said there are so important because you have to know

what you're doing well too, right? You gotta repeat those again and make them happen again in your life. And that can't happen if we don't reflect. And if you don't actually think about, like, I love the idea of taking things into account, I'm a behind, by the way. And so this idea of, like, taking ourselves into account, the actual quote is that take ourselves into account as one day we'll be summoned to a reckoning, right? Or that it's art summoned to a reckoning, this idea of like we're gonna have to like look at our lives

and all the things that we've done and all the decisions that we've made, whether they be for us or for somebody else, the pain that we've caused, and one day we will have to, we'll have a reckoning with all of those things. So by taking ourselves into account every day, right? Little by little, we're like, we're

kind of like being proactive in that process and not waiting until the day we're standing under, you know, before our creator and having to do the same thing. So yeah, man. So then you mix in our business and this industry and all the interesting things that come with it and you're like, you know, it's a battle every single day, which is why I say, I'm still trying to figure it out and work on it just like everybody else. But that's what fascinates me so much and what I love about what you do is that you're able to be in an industry that's seen a certain way, that may function a certain way, but you're able to bring that soul to it and you're working hard to bring that service element to it. And that's

when I first reached out to you and I kind of want to go back there because I think you've done so many interesting things in your career and your journey. And I'm sure many people already know about some of them, but even if they don't, I want to highlight them and unpack those stories with you. But when I reached out to you, I saw you had given this TED talk by being man enough.

And I looked at and I was just like, wow, here's the guys. You know, from the perspective You were talking about it like you've been an actor asked to play very alpha male roles And then you're looking and reflecting and taking into account Yeah, and and you're noticing and you're observing that like oh wait a minute This isn't me like I've almost been pretending to play roles and be someone that I'm not How did you start unpacking that and that journey to get to that talk?

First of all, that talk was, I think I still have PTSD from that talk in the sense that it was one of the scariest things I've ever done, especially at Ted Women. Like being in a room with 1,500 of some of the world's most powerful women and then being a man and giving a talk that's like feminist digiation, right?

And then also the Ted stage talk about self-doubt. Like, what do I have to offer the TED community, right? I'm an expert in nothing except myself. And even that, I'm trying to figure out. So that was a hell of an experience. And my son was born eight days or nine days before that. And we were shooting Jane and it was just this crazy time. But I think for me it was about, look, you get to Hollywood and Hollywood decides what

they want you to be, right? Suddenly I'm playing these characters and I'm auditioning for these characters that couldn't be farther from the way that I viewed myself. And also, these are characters I'm playing the types of people that also made my life very difficult when I was younger and caused me a lot of pain. So I realized early on, I remember calling my first manager, sent me an audition and the title was like super hot. And I remember I called him and I was like, I don't, I think you sent this to the wrong

person. I don't think you're like, it just wasn't how I saw myself. And I was a bit of an ugly duckling. And I had, you know, girls never really liked me. And all the things grew at the wrong times. And eyebrows weren't cool back then. And definitely not the big nose and I was super skinny and very insecure and had acting and you name it, like braces

in high school. And I was bullied a lot and I was picked on a lot and I would compensate with overconfidence when I was younger. But all those boys from the time I was in elementary school, to even, I still struggle with it today, I always felt like I wasn't included, like I wasn't a part of the group, like I wasn't a man, like I wasn't man enough, right? And then suddenly I found myself being looked at from a superficial lens as one of those guys.

So I was inducted into the club because at some point in my early 20s, I finally grew into myself maybe, but it was never comfortable. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save a retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet, roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail

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So I remember early on in my acting career playing these roles, but having no idea, like how I would talk or say things or walk or because even my walk, I was made fun of at one point by kids when I was in seventh grade. And these memories are burned into my soul. And so I'm playing like a really cool frat guy at 20 years old. I had no idea. I wasn't invited to frat parties when I, like, you know, I'm playing like a, I'm playing like a really cool frat guy at 20 years old. I had no idea. I wasn't invited to frat parties when I, like, I know, like, how do you, how

did I do that? How do I do that? And, and I found more and more every time I got a job, I was, it was like living in conflict. And then I realized that I was actually living in conflict outside of the work because I would become a different man based on who I was with. So I would change my personality, the way that I carried myself, the way that I walked, based on the company that I was in.

I would become a chameleon to be accepted, to be liked. And all of those, and then I noticed my behavior with women as I was dating and relationships and I just started to think about all this stuff, which unfortunately, we don't often think about because the world is built to distract us. So in thinking about it, I realized that I was having a innate issue with my masculinity. It was much deeper than that, but that was at least a part of the issue. And then I saw a lot of other men having a very similar issue. And then the more I learned about feminism and women's rights, I realized that that was also

a big contributor, if not one of the main contributors to the oppression in that certain way. And so I just started to like dig into it and learn. And I don't know how, but Ted eventually asked me to come speak. And I wanted to use my platform to talk about it because I just felt like, man, if we could get more men to open up and think about this stuff and go inside instead of projecting outside, I don't know, maybe we'd have a different looking world. That's just the surface layer. Underneath all of it, I believe there's spiritual issues that need to fundamentally change. But you can't change those things with the snap of your fingers.

So I chose masculinity as the surface level thing for me to discuss and talk about. And also because it was parallel to my journey playing a character that was also kind of trapped and struggling with his masculinity. Yeah, absolutely. And what have been some of those challenges? It's so funny when I'm listening to you, there are so many things in common. I'm sure. Before that I'm listening. I was like, wow, like I was super bullied when I was young because I was very overweight. And so I would be really. Yeah, I was, I was very overweight. And my wife had the same things for me, my wife, even though we didn't know each other at that time, but we both grew up on that side of the journey and experience of how we were bullied growing off.

That's so interesting, because my wife and I were bullied for being skinny. Oh, wow. It's a funny thing. The policing is very interesting, and we oftentimes forget that, and God bless my wife, but we were watching a, we were watching a Meghan Trainor song all about that bass, because my daughter obsessed with that music video. She's four years old and everyone's dancing. And we're watching this video

and Maya is liking it and some of the words are kind of not attacking, but... Provolket is for skinny girls, kind of making skinny girls possibly feel bad for being skinny, right? And we don't realize there's a whole other group of women and men that are bullied for looking a certain way. And my wife has a lot of trauma from growing up and, you know, she couldn't put weight on if she tried. And so she's telling my daughter things like,

you know, it's okay to be who you are. And you know what, if you're skinny, when you grow up, that's also beautiful. And, but also explaining that their bodies are beautiful and all of our bodies. And it's so funny that like we don't think about the policing on both sides and where that comes from. So, but yeah, but the result is the same.

The result is like a lot of insecurity in your thirties, in your forties, in your your 50s, you know, throughout your life. Yeah, and I can relate to the chameleon aspect too that you're mentioning. I can totally relate to that. But we don't often think about it, right? Right. I've said it so, and like I've repeated it because I came to understand that fairly early when I chose to go and become a monk, which is the most random decision of everyone I grew up with. Yeah, I want to talk about that. It was, it was, no, we can talk about another time, not today, but, but,

isn't that you? But, for the reason I'm bringing up is just, I think, as we're reflecting, I'm hoping everyone who's listening or watching right now, I hope you're getting an opportunity to reflect. Maybe you have already, maybe you haven't. But if you're listening or watching right now, the reason why I'm sharing when I'm listening to you is I've also played that one.

I was on Red Table Talk recently, and I know you were too. And. I'm saying wonderful. They're wonderful. They're amazing. Yeah, the whole family is just beautiful and incredible. And I was talking about this.

I was talking about how like I was switching my personalities to appeal to women and appeal to the opposite sex. I would switch who I was. Of course. So that a certain type of person would like me. Where have you found, what have you found from giving that talk, doing that research, doing that work up till that point in your life?

What did you find out about identity and on that deeper spiritual level? I'd love to hear that from you. I love how you said that you were not using but engaging a viewpoint around something more surface level to talk about something deeper. Well, I think all of our issues are inherently spiritual, but we can't, you can't snap your fingers and fix a spiritual problem unless people are willing to go there. And as you know,

having been a monk and me, you know, every day waking up and struggling, the connection that an individual has with their creator, God, the universe, I mean, even God is a buzzword now for people. Like God is triggering to people, which is a bizarre thing. Like people are so anti-religion now that, and because they've had such terrible experiences in whether it be their churches or, you know, with various groups that people are very hesitant to even talk about God. So now we're using words like the

universe, right? Who created the universe? I don't know. Something did. So I used the word God, but it's so hard to tackle a spiritual issue when we're not realizing we're actually spiritual beings having a physical experience. So that's why choosing, you know, that's my being looked so it's social justice. It's all of these things. They're all interconnected. If you strip it all down, right? Whatever the problem that's plaguing the world, it all comes down to spirituality and the way we view each other as other or the way that ego takes over, or our drive for power and money or success, and are for, and completely forgetting that we are here really to serve each other, and to be of service to our creator, the universe, God, whatever, whoever you want to call it. So some of the things I've learned, I've learned that I don't know anything.

I am, you know, after the TED talk, I found it really interesting because we were talking about this outside. I never planned on being a public spokesperson for anything. Like I'm not a thought leader, right? I'm not someone that's going to like change my Instagram bio and call myself a thought leader, right? I'm not someone that's gonna like change my Instagram bio and call myself a thought leader and like make that my world. I actually inherently kind of,

I'm a little allergic to that phrase, right? I'm not a leader in anything. I was a guy with an idea that sort of talking about the things I cared about because of the way social media works. People then attach certain labels to me because also of the way the industry works, then it becomes a little povloviant on my part or your part, you start to do more of that thing.

But inherently, I kept it as pure as I could. And then suddenly you're asked to give more thoughts and more opinions and then you're on the TED stage and you don't know what the hell you're doing there. That's my journey. But afterwards, what ended up happening was I didn't expect there to be so much negativity and I didn't realize how polarizing the masculinity issue was and how interconnected it was with

the political climate and the culture divide that's happening in our country and around the world. this happening in our country and around the world, right? As an example, feminism is now a weaponized word. And if you're considered a feminist, then people assume they know your political ideology. The same thing with masculinity, right? You're a liberal snowflake. You're this, you're this. And I found myself getting very attacked. And I am not good with that, because of how I was treated as a young boy, there's a lot of open wounds there that I've been working

on healing for a long, long time. So as we were talking about out there, I could have a million people tell me amazing things, but I could have one guy tell me something with just keyboard courage with some anonymous name that I happen to read on accident in my days route. Conquer your New Year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast Podcast in each bite-sized daily episode. Time management and productivity expert Laura Vandercam teaches you how to make the most of your time, both at work and at home.

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And as a matter of how enlightened or prayerful I am, there's a part that hasn't healed from being that kid that of course I will eventually hopefully get to a better place, but none of us have been trained to really know what to do with social media this way. So I found myself having a lot of interesting reactions to the talk, being loved and supported by women, getting tons of texts from women when it came out.

Very famous women, women that I hadn't seen in 10 years, 20 years, a few men. I was wondering. Yeah, right? You were one of them. Being promoted on all these female facing magazines and websites and things, and then the male reaction was really negative.

And I was confused because it ended up perpetuating the same issue, which was this feeling like I am not good enough for my own gender, which happened as a boy. And then I'll, here I am talking to men as a man. So, the end of the day, I'm an athlete, I'm a dude, I work out, I love, like, I love some of the aspects of masculinity, I'm a sports fan, I'm like, you know, all of it.

But I also am an emotional person. And all I'm saying is that you can be both, and maybe we can use all of those aspects of masculinity that make us strong men to explore the hidden inner parts of ourselves to become more full humans. And the response was like was terrible on that. I didn't realize that. Yeah, I really didn't realize that.

And I got really sad and I didn't understand. And I realized that without knowing it, I had used certain words that sensational media has weaponized for a political agenda, like toxic, right? I'm not saying toxic masculinity doesn't exist. But that word now, if I say it, a large part of the population will not listen to what I have to say, even though I'm not using it in a polypsychologist. I'm saying the aspects of masculinity that encourage policing and bullying, that encourage us to change our personalities, maybe to treat women poorly, those things are toxic.

And by toxic, I mean they're bad for you in the same way that, like, a harmful chemical causes cancer, right? That's all it is. But that word can be weaponized. And then we're living in a very sensitive time where things are very polarizing. And we are in the middle of this culture war. And I found myself in the middle of that. And I realized that man, I should have done a little more research because the men that I actually want to reach, the men that I want to talk to the most are the men who are rejecting the message. And then I was in an echo chamber. I was in a

silo. I was talking to the people that already believed in it. So that was something that I learned. That's beautiful. Why not? With my work around masculinity and man enough, I'm changing a little bit of the way that I talk about it, because women don't need to hear what I have to say. The women are doing the work themselves. My work is with men, as a man, healing also some of the things that have happened to me and that I've been working through, and hoping that by displaying vulnerability

and by talking about things that are hard to talk about that you and I have been through, that it gives other men permission to do the same because at the end of the day, men are killing themselves at a higher rate than women, men are our dying of heart disease and cancer more than women. We are, we isolate ourselves, we clearly cause a lot more wars and doing our doing a lot more damage And I just feel like there is a lot of opportunity for healing. And that's at its core what it's about. It's about healing. Yeah, absolutely. And you've said that so well. And when I saw it and when I'm reflecting on it now hearing from you, for me, it was just really clear that you were speaking about something that was around personal growth, personal healing, personal transformation from the perspective of,

personal growth, personal healing, personal transformation from the perspective of, hey, have you had to look at yourself in a while? Are there parts of you that you would like to change? Are there parts of you that you haven't explored? Are there parts of you that you forgot and even exist there? You know, are you really being the person you want to be? We have been trained to do that. Absolutely. No, we haven't at all. Nobody's taught us that. No, absolutely. Our fathers didn't teach us to like look at ourselves and observe our behavior.

We didn't learn that stuff. The movies are not teaching us that. The magazines are not teaching us that. What are they teaching us? How to get the girl? How to make your body look good so you can get the girl. And we don't even think about that language. What does get the girl mean?

And we're already thinking about women as a possession. Getting a thing an object. So without even realizing it, we're like brainwashed to think a certain way. Versus attracting a partner or a mate, it's just it's not in our programming. We've been socialized. And women have been socialized to respond as well. I mean, there's two sides to this equation, which is why we both, and I've noticed this had to change our behavior around various groups, especially women, to become the man we think they want us to be, instead of being just who we are. We were born to be, and who we were born with, full of shit and baggage, as we are. Yeah, absolutely. And I think what I took from it was just that encouragement to people to unpack your own bags. You know, like, we've all got to do that healing

ourselves. No one's going to do it for you. Like, no one's going to walk into your life and fix you. And it's great. Anyway, but I just wanted to say that I personally thought what you did was awesome. I personally think hearing from you today as well. And I'm hoping everyone is listening and watching is taking that in from a point of self reflection. Like, that's what I'm learning from this. It's like, let's look at ourselves in the mirror and not look at our bodies in the mirror. Just that. Let's look at that inside in the mirror and go,

okay, what do I like? What do I want to work on? Where do I want to grow? Am I happy with this? Am I pleased with who I am? We all have that feeling. You know this feeling when you're in like a social setting and you say something or you interact with somebody

and then you leave that person and you're like, oh my god, it was such an idiot. Yeah. Or why did I say that thing? All of us have it. They're like people are like, they're like, in the room. And I was like, yeah, yeah, he's good. But nobody, nobody talks about it, right? The things we all have it because all of us are trying to like figure out who we are. And if we just, and if you, and if you have that moment and you're like, wait, why did I say that thing? That wasn't me, right? What was I trying to prove? Why did I change my,

that little like self-awareness can take you on a deep, deep journey into like, I don't wanna say enlightenment, but into the self-reflection and awareness, and you can't start to change something unless you realize that it exists in the first place and you come to terms with it. So, anyway, yeah. And it's both those things. It's looking back and going like, how did I say that to that person?

And then looking at what we say to ourselves too. It's like reflecting the voice in our heads and going, wait a minute, did I say that to myself? Is that how I'm talking to myself now? Yeah, and then if you say, oh, I'm such an idiot. Yeah. What is that? Now clearly, that's how we're treating ourselves.

You know, it's funny, my wife oftentimes says to me, stop treating my husband like that. Yeah. Right? Yeah. This beautiful... That's awesome, I love that. She's like, hey, be nice to my husband. Right?

Because she sees me do that to myself like that because I can take the self reflection and then I can go too far. And then she's like, hey, right? And then now it's fun because I get back to her all the time. Yeah. Because we're all doing that to ourselves, right? That's what marriage is at its core. And we can talk about marriage. Yeah, yeah, go for it. Marriages, two people

coming together and putting all their shit on the front lawn and having that be the fertilizer for their new home. Yeah. You know, it's like, that's what it is. Yeah, 100%. No, I love that. And what's interesting is, you know, you've gone from obviously using your platform to spread a message, but just recently, just now you were saying that actually you've been taking social media downtime too. You've been taking breaks from tech. Yeah, I'm just, I just don't think that we're, I just don't think any of us realize also the damage we're doing to ourselves. You know, it's funny.

I had a question for you. Go on. You are, you're a king at social media. I'm, I look at, I'm, I'm marvel at what you've been able to do and what you've been able to build, especially because you're doing it, and it's all the same. It's all the same with the same intention.

I can tell, I know you're in, I can feel intention. Only God knows intention, but I have this thing where I'm allergic to self-help gurus and like, I just, it's like, it's like, no, no, no, but like, there's like a, there's a thing because I, because we're all flawed, right? And it's so easy to put ourselves on a pedestal. And it's so easy to then suddenly with the millions of people or the 20 or 30 or 40 people in a church or a congregation to start to think that that's about us

and not about what's coming through us. So I, and this is just me putting this on you, but I feel your purity and I sincerely thank you for that. However, I don't know how you do it because you're creating so much content on such a massive scale every single day. And building businesses also for helping people that I look at you and I'm like,

how are you able to like separate you as your person from like this world that hinges on commenting and liking and putting out content and I don't know how you do it. So first of all, I would love for you because you knew at some point it was going to be flipped. No, I didn't. I was at the point. I'm only, I learned. I'm not an expert on anything. I'm not a guru or self-help person. I'm here to get help and to learn and all I do is pass that on, but I don't know how you do it because our brains are not wired for this thing.

Like we haven't been wired for this, but yet you're doing it in such a beautiful and pure way, which is why as I see your numbers rise and you get this is the number one, you know, podcast on iTunes. I have so much joy for you because I'm like, oh my God, finally someone that I actually believe really cares is doing it. But how do you separate and not go to bed at night thinking about the poster you're gonna have to do tomorrow? And the interaction and the engagement that you have to have to get people to swipe up, how do you do that? So I think the first thing I'm gonna say is I'm grateful, man, thank you.

I really appreciate that coming from you. Like it just, it was very hard. It was very hard brother. It was very hard to say, like I'm feeling the environment and the genuine, like I'm just very grateful to hear that from you. Like it means a lot because it's not been easy and it's a daily practice. And the first thing I'm gonna say is I have an awesome team.

So that is a huge part of it. And as things grew, I really understood that I couldn't do it on my own and that if I tried to do it on my own, then that would get very difficult. So I think one of the biggest things was recognizing I had to find people with good energy, find people who didn't just want to do this because they got paid to do it, but that they were also doing it because this was deeply connected to their mission in life. and it was helping them fulfill their purpose. And that's what I've always said to everyone on my team. It's like, I want you to be doing a role that feels aligned with your purpose as much as it's aligned with mine, because it's not good enough for you to be

here because you get paid to be here. And so I'm very fortunate to have an amazing team that is doing that, so that I'm not having to think about everything all of the time. So I think that's one big thing, but for me, I've had that daily practice for a long time, and I've talked about it a bit before, but I call it seeds and weeds, and that's my check-in system, and that's the check-in system for my Vedic tradition, Hindu tradition, of checking the seeds and weeds in my life. So the way I take account is I ask myself at the end of every day, at the end of every week, or at the beginning of a new venture, or a new business, or a new project, and I ask myself,

am I doing this as a seed or a weed? The seed is a positive intention, which is a pure intention, and a weed is a negative intention, an intention that I know could start off amazing, but will end that. So a negative intent, so as an example, give me an example. It's like greed, ego. If I'm doing something. I'm doing this for, oh, there's a deal coming and I'm gonna do this. Just, you know what, it's gonna make me a few grand. I'm gonna do it.

Correct. So I would put that there and that's different for different people. Like, yes, I'm in a, I have to take point and say, I'm in a privileged position where now I can decide to do that, right? Sure. And there was a time when I stuck to that

even when I couldn't, but I appreciate that not everyone can do it. Yeah, I'm just putting it out there as a disclaimer for other people. I'm not pushing that on anyone. But for me, I know for a fact that if I'm doing something just, we were talking about it earlier with guests, like I want to have guests here that I can have these conversations with. Like there may be a guest that may get me the good numbers and like be really good

for my brand, but it's like if I've got nothing to talk to them about, or if we're going to sit here and just talk about their new CD, right, I'm not going to run the CDs anymore, but you know, you talk about, then I'm just like, sorry, just to show my age. But you know, the point being that like, if that's all you're going to do, like, that's not exciting to me. So we in my team, when we're talking about guests that we want to have, we sit there and talk about like, what would be the talking points? And like, you know, just what do the research, and we'll be like, okay, well,

let's talk about the meaningful stuff. Like we're trying to look at like, how do we, you know, and so I think for me, a big thing is, I don't wanna do things out of ego, greed, just for money, right, my own pride, or just for perception. So I'm looking at, how can I do things out of kindness, love, compassion, service, right, impact. And I can still be as strategic about it.

And that's the missing link I feel. And this is all inspired by one statement by Martin Luther King. He said that people who love peace need to learn to organize themselves as well as those who love war. And that's the missing link that we can all be as spiritual and as deep

and as pure as we like or trying to be. But if we're not strategic and if we're not voting, you know this because I see you do it. If we're not focused and we're not organized, then we're doing a disservice to this beautiful message. And I think what you pointed out so beautifully is

I actually feel being a messenger of a message that is through me is actually liberating. He takes some of the pressure off. Now I'm like, no, it's not about me being perfect and now it's not about me having to live up to a certain standard and now it's not about me having to be perfect all the time and say the perfect things all the time and look perfect all the time and all of that stuff and I think that's where it takes the pressure. Do you still have the human moments where you struggle with like, oh, that didn't do as well as I wanted it to or that person didn't respond

or just finding yourself maybe in a moment where you want to be just purely connecting with another human, thinking about, you know, the strategy of something tomorrow or, you know, do you still have those moments? Yeah, so I would say that I definitely have the moment of assessing, I love assessing performance. Yeah. Because I also think, but it's the lens through which you're assessing it. So let me explain what I mean. So I'm assessing, I will look at a post and be like, oh, people didn't like that video as much. Interesting.

But I'm not going, people didn't like that video as much. Oh my God, I'm so sad. They don't like me. I'm depressed about it. I'm myself worth is now falling down. Oh my God, maybe my views are going to tank now and people are going on. That's not the line of thought. My line of thought is, okay, what can I learn? Why didn't they like that? Like did we spread the wrong message? Was it not meaningful enough? Like did we use the wrong thumbnail?

Like I'm like, I'm trying to learn from it. And ultimately it's coming from that. As a strategy, as a business, as organizing. Correct. But what's so interesting is that I look and I see Instagram and it's a strange intersection of people's personal lives and business. And it's very difficult to separate the two, right? Because we're almost

inextricably linked as personalities and as human beings and as business and monetization platforms. And that's what's never been discussed or talked about. Right? So as an example, you might share a post of you and your wife that has nothing to do with your business, but then 90% of your other content's gonna be about your business. Granted, your business specifically is to make a difference in the world. And you have to help people and mine, but I know that's been one of,

and not to bring it back to me, but bringing it back to me. Please bring it back to me. No, that's been one of the struggles that I've had is, I had to take a step back and I had to say, like, wait, what am I saying and what am I doing? Because it's such a powerful tool, but as we know, tools can be used for good.

And tools can be used to destroy. And I'm seeing so many negative things happening in people's lives as individuals. I'm seeing the dating world. I feel I feel I have so much compassion and sadness for so many of the people that I'm seeing trying to navigate themselves in this like social media instant gratification dating world. I'm seeing, we're seeing, you know, epidemic levels of depression amongst young people, right? Because of the likes and because of, you know, these are, I mean, we were lucky. We didn't have social media when you were, you know, I'm older than you. No, but yeah, we. But we didn't have it. Like imagine that pressure.

You know? So, yes, so I looked at it and I just said like, okay. Why am I taking this picture? Yes. It's that simple. It is that simple. Why am I doing, why am I taking this picture? And what I've been doing, you know,

and I took it a little too far because I really haven't been posting nearly as much as I used to, is I kind of took took account as to why I was doing something, which really comes down to purity of intention. Right? 100%. Why am I posting this? Do I know what's going to get likes? Or am I posting this because I like it?

Yes. And if you can just strip it down to that and start to battle the Pavlovian like instincts that come up when you're thinking about it, then I think that you're on the right track. And so that's kind of the world I'm in now, which is sharing far less, far less personal moments, although I share personal moments, but I'm sharing them because I like them. And I'm acknowledging and I'm aware of the thing in me that for some reason doesn't feel accepted when the strategy as the business person isn't getting the response that I feel like it could

or should because I'm not like you in the sense where I don't have a platform where I'm quite literally trying to affect and change people's lives all day long, I'm creating a different kind of content, but my world has come together with my personal life and my business, and it's a very tricky thing. And you're seeing a lot of influencers and celebrities dealing with this kind of this strange intersection of like business and personal life, the promotion of brands. It's a very lucrative thing for people in our position, like with this privilege, but at the same time, at what cost, and what are we saying and how are we doing it and what

are we showing and it's really trying to figure out and I'm on the journey of trying to figure out how I can do it in a pure way. Yes. Because it's a necessary thing. But I need it to feel pure because my filter and my accounting system is straight up like if this doesn't feel right or pure, I can't do it. Totally. It basically can't do it. Totally. It physically can't do it no matter how much you're gonna pay me.

Yes. And that's kind of the problem. Yeah. So that's kind of my issue with social media right now. And I'm also, I don't even think you asked me this, but I've also been struggling and thinking a lot about just overall intention. And I'm seeing this, I'm seeing

this trend in especially young people that want to change the world. And I don't know if anybody really knows why they want to change the world. And that's troubling to me. In an age where everybody's trying to be more authentic, nobody is. And that's scary for me, thinking about my daughter's generation, which is why we, at my company at Wayfair, and personally, we don't say authentic anymore. We say sincere. You know, and I believe that you got to ask two to three wise, always. Yes. Sure. Why do you want to change the world? Because, well, why do you want to do that? Because, the

third wise is going to be because I want people to remember that I did. Or, and you know, you look at this hustle mentality, this world that we're living in on, you know, where we're showing our lives to everybody, and then I just look at them and like, well, what's driving you to do that? Why are you sharing that? Why are you broadcasting live on Instagram?

Who are you talking to, and what are you trying to say? And sometimes I think about the future and wondering if an alien civilization came down and discovered the remains of our 2019-2020, what would they see? They'd see billions of people all over the world broadcasting themselves and taking pictures of themselves instead of seeing the moments around them. And the other day, it was funny. I took, when I took a month off, we talked about taking a break.

It took a month off after five years of building and the show and everything else to be with my family. And the last few days, I just left my phone somewhere completely. And I was sitting in this restaurant by myself getting some food for my kids who were down the street. And I didn't have my phone.

And I just remember looking around and I was just smiling because I was watching people. And I went, oh my God, I've been missing life. And I looked over and I saw they had this like, jenga set. And it went over and I got, and I just played jenga by myself. I would have never done that because I would have been on some social platform or writing down some idea or answering an email. And I would have missed the beauty

that is right in freaking front of us. And that's kind of the struggle that I'm having my inner battle with it because we've never been trained. Like we talked about masculinity well, men have never been trained to hold this conversation. Never been trained to hold women, like the female trauma. Remember, and trained to hold our trauma. Well, as human beings, we're not trained to live in a digital world where we're connected

to our phones and being like liked or loved based on what we show. Like it's not, our brains aren't used to it, especially if we don't have the spiritual foundation to keep us grounded so that our egos don't take over. So the long response to your question is that's what I'm thinking about right now, is how can I navigate this world? How can we have this conversation

where in the back of my mind, I don't care how many downloads this podcast episode gets. Like I share a picture of us, I don't care how many likes it gets episode gets. Like I'll share a picture of us. I don't care how many likes it gets. If people like it, that's fantastic. I hope Instagram gets rid of the likes. You know? Like we just do it because we love it.

We want it. It becomes from our soul, it becomes from our hearts, and our desire to share what comes through us, not because it feels avoid. And I have a lot of voids to fill. And that's kind of what I'm exploring and on the journey over right now. I love them, and that's amazing. What a great, what a great reflection.

Not nearly too much. I'm not as enlightened as many of your guests because I'm just realizing we're so, you know, I just... No, but what I love about it and what I'm glad, and this is beautiful. Like, you know, the one thing I love about the podcast is I have no idea where it's going to go, and this is exactly right now I'm having one of those moments where I'm just like, I love where this is going and has gone so far because I'm just listening to and and all I'm thinking is that actually that's the beauty of it that we are trying to learn about

this new world and we're exploring it And we aren't going to make mistakes. We are all going to post something that we know we did for the wrong reason, and then we're going to reflect and be like, okay, I'm going to try this next time. And okay, that didn't quite work. I got that wrong too. And so I feel like this constant self-reflection and self-checking. That's all we have. And what you mentioned about the three Ys, like I've often referred to as the Y ladder.

I'm like, you need to build a Y ladder, and then you can walk up it if the Ys stack up. But if you can't answer them, that means you've got no rungs on that ladder. And start with two Ys. The first Y is never enough. No, 100%. You gotta go with the Y of the Y.

Yes. And it's one of the things that, if you like my daughter's four, Y, Y, Y, the fourth Y, there's no answer. There's never an answer. You can't get past the third. But like that curiosity that wisdom can only come if we ask ourselves these whys. I love the why ladder. Like why? Why? Yeah. Just if you can get to the second why, you'll find that there's something missing. Yes. And if we can get to the point where we can acknowledge the parts of ourselves that are uncomfortable and dirty,

if we can get comfortable and the uncomfortable, the parts of ourselves that are doing things to fill that void, then like, man, that's a recipe for happiness like no other. Even if it's like, ooh, I don't like how that feels and you don't do it, great. Yeah. And we don't have to beat ourselves up

because we failed. That's the other part of it. Like, we don't have to beat ourselves up because we failed. That's the other part of it. Like, we're going to beat ourselves because lots of good can come from our doing things impurely. And we are going to and we are going to nobody is pure. 100% and the biofaits were told that like we will never conquer our ego. Yes. Ever. Yes. You can go be a monk for a billion years or 80 years. You know, it's really funny. This also made me think of something. Baha'u'llah says in the Baha'u'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a of silence now come down here and put that into practice. You're doing that. I was actually doing that because it's easy.

You can spend 60 years in a monastery and practice all these things. But can you practice it down on Hollywood Boulevard with 3 1,500,000 followers, with a million people or two million people that download your podcast. Can you practice what you've learned as a monk in the middle of superficiality and materialism?

That's what you're literally doing, man. That's why I applaud you. Well, no, the crazy thing about it is that I've said to so many people that like being a monk was like going to school, and then this has been the exam. Like I've actually said it like that. Like this has been the exam. Like I've actually said it like that. Like this has been the test of everything I've learned is the last six years since I left the ashram,

this has been the test. And when we were trained in the Vedic philosophy, same thing. So I loved the fact that we're so aligned on belief, A, you'll never overcome ego. No one's fully out in enlightenment. You're constantly in the path of purification. It's all about sincerity of purpose.

So I loved the use of the word sincerity. And the key thing was also that half of our day was silence and half was service because we were told it's easy to feel humble when you're on your own. Like it's easy to feel you've overcome ego until someone challenges it. So if you're on your own all day,

you can be like, oh yeah, I'm over ego, like I'm cool, like nothing can trigger me and then the next thing you like in the car on the Pacific Highway or whatever it is, it's all of a sudden, like, you know, all day, you can be like, oh yeah, I'm over ego, like I'm cool. Like, nothing can trigger me. And then the next thing you like in the car on the Pacific Highway or whatever it is, it's all of a sudden, like, you know, you're like, oh my god, I'm full of anger. And you're spot on. And therefore, I think that it's okay.

We just have to rapid awareness, like rapid awareness, this stuff. And that's what I always explain to people. It's like, you're not trying to make something disappear. You're trying to spot it quicker. And then you're trying to transform it quicker. Like, it's just a speed thing. It's not a matter of yes or no.

I think we live in this binary world of, one day I'm impure and one day I'm pure. And it's like, we both know it doesn't work like that. But what does work is that I get quicker at spotting those moments, and I get quicker at change. It's funny, people ask me a lot, the effects that making my last days had on me.

Yes, yeah. And my last days was a documentary series that I produce where I've been traveling in the country for seven or eight years telling the stories of people that are terminally ill, but living amazing lives. And there's something that happens to somebody when they find out they're dying. That the reason I created the show was because I wanted so badly for an audience to be able to have that same moment without being given the diagnosis.

What if you could wake up and live as if you were told from the doctor you had six months? What would you do? How would you treat people? What would you care about, right? That was my dream, that was my goal. What I found was the thought of mortality and being around so many individuals

who are so close to death was that exact thing that you described. It was the thing that an argument with my wife or a friend or In the middle of deal points, you know, in a business was the thing that made me come back faster because at the end of the day It's does that matter Why am I reacting that way and when I leave here? How am I gonna feel about it? Now if you're dying and you have six months to live It's just it's a totally different thing then if you feel like you have another 80 or 90,

which none of us even know how long we have. But this, this, this coming back faster is all that we really need to do. That's what I talk, that's what my wife and I talk about. It's great. It's, so what if we get an argument? But how fast can we come back? My personal version of that is how fast can I apologize? Do I have to wait till the next day? Or can I do it almost the second that I say it? And Abdul Baha in my faith basically says in the future the crime itself will be the punishment.

The goal is to get to a place in civilization, right, where we are so spiritually grounded that the very act of the crime itself will be all the punishment that's needed. Like that's where we want to go. That's where we want to get. Like the so like how fast can we come back? Oh, I didn't feel good. All right, I'm back on course. And it's like the pain of committing the crime is the punishment. That's it. Yeah, it's that the remorse that is the knowing that we knowing that we displease right? Like that's what that's where we have to get to, which is why when I say like all of these problems are spiritual in their core. You know, like because like everything like the prison like to talk about the the prison

industrial complex like all of these things are, they're all broken, but they all have spiritual fundamental issues that if we just looked at them as, you know, wow, wait a second. People change. Like I can change, you can change. I just might have cursed at that person, but three seconds later I was so regretful that I did.

Let me go apologize to that person. I'm gonna track that person down and say I'm sorry, right. I think about that all the time when I'm driving in LA because there's so much road rage. Road rage is getting worse. Have you noticed by the way? Oh my god. It's getting worse. Think about it. There's a lot of reasons why it's getting worse, but like someone, someone, someone, someone, someone drives by you, right? And they like literally flip you off and you're like, did I do something wrong? Literally. It's right. And I sometimes wonder if like, what if that person then slowed down and said, I'm sorry, I'm just having a bad day. Because generally that person flips you off and then you then get pissed off and flip off the next person. Or that ruins your day, right? And it sends you

down this spiral of negativity. But can you do it on both sides? Can you have instant reflection? Can you fight with your partner or your wife or say something stupid and then then then immediately apologize and say, why you're sorry? Not just that you're sorry. Yes. Oh, man, this is why that happened. That's what we're getting to. How fast can we come back? Yes. I love that. I'm so glad you brought up. That's such a beautiful statement. And I love that practical aspect of it. Oscar's going on questions like, how far can I apologize?

Is it brilliant one? It's gonna be from a sincere place. 100%. 100%. So I tell you, as you and I both know, our partners know when the apology is real or not. Oh my God, yeah, definitely.

It's like, my wife will tell me straight up, like, now I don't believe you. Yeah. And then that'll piss me off even more. So what do you mean? You don't believe me. Yeah, yeah. She's like, why? And then I'm like, nah, I don't believe you. Yeah. And then that'll piss me off even more. So what do you mean? You don't believe me. Yeah. Yeah.

She's like, why? And then I'm like, all right, all right, give me a second. Yeah. Right. And then you come back. And what we found is like the faster you come back, the happier you are. Yes. Right.

You're never going to be like completely without it. Absolutely. If you are completely, this is another podcast. But if you are completely without it, then you're not going deep enough. Yeah, absolutely. The two things that always have to be specific are apologies and appreciation. Right. You can't do either of them. What are you thankful for? What are you sorry for? Yeah, you can't do either of them with being generic. But that ties back to the taking yourself to account thing as well. Getting super specific for yourself and for your creator of what am I, what did go well? What am I thankful for?

Yeah. Right. Now you're going to get a taste of your own medicine. So I one thing I was going to say that I really love about what you're doing and the way you're doing it is that when I came to your movie premiere, which I was so grateful you invited me to five feet apart. First of all, it was a beautiful event. It was so amazing to be a part of it. It's the first movie premiere I've been to actually. So I was so amazing to be a part of it. It's the first movie

premiere I've been to actually. So I was really grateful to be invited. I don't, I don't usually go to the ones I've been invited to, but this felt special and I wanted to come because I just feel that you've genuinely tried to be of service through your media. So I was interested to see how you were going to do this one. And this is what I loved about it. I was watching a movie which in and itself, is a story of two people, but we'll talk about in a second and how you got there. But for me, I was learning gratitude. I was learning forgiveness.

I was, you know, if you were watching it sincerely, you were going to take away all these messages. And I could tell that everyone was almost, what's the right word? Everyone was so engaged to watch it sincerely because the whole audience was in tears. Like the whole time. And for anyone who's not seen it, yeah, I highly recommend going to see it. Please go watch it.

It's, I just saw it on my plane right back home too. Oh no. It was on my airline. It's so funny. I always tell people, if you're gonna watch it on a plane, just be prepared because your partner's gonna think you're having a nervous breakdown.

There's seat partner, you know? Literally, yeah, exactly. But think you're having a nervous breakdown. Their seat partner. Literally, yeah, exactly. But if you haven't seen it, please go watch it. I went out to see it on the night that it came out. We're just inviting me. I've seen it twice after that. And all I'm going to say is that people weren't just crying at the end. People were crying the whole way through, but then they would laugh. And then they would cry again, and then they would laugh. And that's what's so beautiful about it that you're able to teach or at least share messages of gratitude, appreciation, forgiveness, love, all of these things through crying and laughter. And I think that's very unique and I think that's very special that you could go to a theater,

go to a cinema and watch a movie that was able to bring out all of those responses. Like I'm sure people after that, like, called up the person they love, and which is like, I love you, like, you know, just, I want you to know this in a good way. Yeah, and what's funny was that was my only goal. Yeah. I mean, I had a few specific goals. None of them were financial,

but one of them was if people, because I got asked this question a lot before I made it and after, is what would you hope an audience would do? Like, what do you hope an audience would do? What do you hope the audience reaction would be? And I always said, if somebody left the theater and called somebody that they loved and told them, then we will have succeeded or forgave somebody that they were arguing with or apologize

to somebody or just notice how lucky they were to be able to hold the hand of somebody they loved, gratitude, all of these things. So that was so thank you because that really was, that was the goal and the response has been incredible. I think more than anything, it was a human project. You know, one of the Arabic words for human, right, is insan, which has infinite definitions, but of course, one of them means they who forget, which is funny that like insane means like they who forget. And

the idea and this was you know my partner my production company is Muslim and we were having conversations about this is one of like it's interesting that that's one of the words for human is that we forget everything we forget our. We forget our joy, we forget our pain. Like we just forget, and it's both a blessing and a curse, and part of the beauty of life is in the remembering, right? My idea that God created us to remember him, right? Not to like, like, which means that he built us in a way that makes us also forget.

So then the journey to remembering is that much more beautiful. And I think that that journey in a film should replicate the journey in life. So for me, a movie that makes you cry strips away all the stuff in the barriers. Like it's like the roomy quote, like all the barriers we built up against love. It strips it all away and it leaves us open so that we can then take in a message. So my strength I found early on was, as a storyteller, I both enjoy and excel at making people feel things, which is why I would say like a mission statement for me is helping people take the journey from their head to their heart, right? And that's essentially what the film is supposed to be, is if we can strip people down, we can make them feel something deeply. And the social media, like instant gratification, on demand, society, if we can like

just make people feel then we can create room and space for them to have that light bulb go off where they realize how grateful they are or how lucky they are or the fact that they can take a full breath or how meaningless the argument that they're in is or the depression that they're facing because maybe they weren't invited to that party that they see all their friends are are at on Snapchat or Instagram or how many likes they got. You strip it all away and just sit there and watch something that just brings you back to what matters and helps you remember. That was the goal of the movie and that's kind of the goal

for all the content that we're creating. It's can you remember, can you remember how lucky we are and how beautiful life is and can be because you can't have happiness unless you're content with what you have. And so I'm happy that the response was that. And also it was inspired by my friend Claire who passed away, who had cystic fibrosis, who was a walking example of that. And she was featured in the second season of My Last Days. And I mean, she was the one that said, we all have the ability to make our lives a beautiful piece of art. And the hope is that people walk away from that movie having that experience, and crying a little bit, and laughing a little bit.

Like after you cry, something funny is that much sweeter. Yes, right? And then after you laugh, something sad is that much more emotional. But that all comes from real people. My last days, people think it's so depressing, it's inspiring. 100%.

Because they're not just sad all the time. They use humor half the like in many ways to deflect from the sadness and but it doesn't change the sadness but sometimes that stuff's funny and like you know it's just an extreme situation so yeah yeah man it's been a really really beautiful experience and now I'm off to my next one yeah yeah you can't tell me anything about it but Yeah, I can. It's another, it's another tier jerk, yeah. It's based on another documentary. We're making a movie at Warner Brothers called Clouds based on the life of Zach Silviaq,

who was, it was a viral YouTube documentary that I had written the song called Clouds. And the week he died, the documentary went viral and the song hit number one on iTunes. Wow. And it's basically a story about how this young 17 year old chooses to live the last year of his life knowing that all of his other friends are going to college and how he chooses to spend his time and the impact that he wants to have on the world. I love that man. And this is

what I'm saying. This is this is why I love the work you're involved in because it's in may not and you know, we both believe in this education and entertainment world of like where you're able to enlighten through entertainment. And I do believe that that was the reason why I came into this world and wanted to be involved was because I really saw that too, that I felt that we're always going to want to watch movies. We're always going to want to watch documentaries.

We're always going to do that. But if the creators behind these can become more conscious, if all of us can come with an angle of, okay, why is this serving anyone? Right, beyond what you said, the monetization or any of that stuff, how is this really helping people? Because in the world today, we have this dichotomy

between just as we have junk food, we have junk media. And if all you're consuming is junk media, that's gonna destroy your insights in the same way junk food destroys your outsides. And that's very nice. So you're the only, that's funny. That was quite literally in an early deck when I was starting the company and begging people to make things with me that I said it was like we are doing the exact same thing in television

and media that we've done in the food system. Right? Which is what we're creating the low hanging like this taste really good. It's really sugary. It's filled with all these natural, like, you know, natural flavors. And then five minutes later, you feel terrible about yourself. Yeah. And, you know, there's so much content that's being created that make us feel better about being worse people. And we're really interested in UR2. How do you create content that makes people want to be better? And finally, now we're in a place where that's becoming cool, which is going to present an entirely new set of challenges. Because we're going to find ourselves swimming in a ocean

where everybody is now trying to make similar content. But there's going to be differences in the intention of why people are making the content, which is going to be the difference of why things work and why they don't. But for most people, they're not gonna be able to see that, right? I say this a lot, but it's like your grandmother's cooking.

Yeah. You can make the exact same thing that you could get at a restaurant. Absolutely. But this, your grandma's tastes so much better. Yes. The ingredients could be identical. Yes. But she made it with love. Yep. That's the same approach that we have that I know we both share with content. And it's going to be really tricky in the next, that's my prediction in the next five years is there's going to be so saturated with like, you know, the gurus and the change

your life and the content that does good in the world that that we're going to have to really be mindful of the three Ys. Yes. You know, that's why I always ask people like, well, why? Why? Why? Because if it's not coming from that other place, then that means that it might look the same, but behind it? Yes. Yes.

The iceberg underneath it isn't really doing anything for anybody. And then for people like us, we're going to have our own challenges, man, which is the more successful anyone gets the more of a test it is for the purity of the reasons we create. Absolutely. And nobody is exempt from that.

100% and my teacher keeps reminding me, I've actually invited you to an event. Yeah, I'm gonna jump. I'm hoping you're coming. I'm gonna jump. I want you to meet him. So he keeps me in check. He's 70 years old, he's been among for 40 years.

He comes out and travels and meets, and he's with us here at the moment, and he's someone who just me and my wife are talking about the other day, because he can say things to me that, if most people said, there are people in your life that you need that can say things to you,

that no one else can say, and that you will listen to it, and do your ego is naturally limited because you have just so much respect for them. And I feel like you need people like that in your life, who you trust to the point where even when my ego really wants to respond to him and justify myself and it still does.

You don't, you shut up and listen. But I don't, and I shut up and listen. And that's like such a benefit to have someone like that. But we're very privileged to have those people. Most people don't have those people. So if anybody listening, find those people. If you don't look for it, surround yourself with people that tell you those people. So if you're for anybody listening, find those people if you don't. Look for surround yourself with people that tell you the truth.

Yes. I was telling my sister this last night, just it's so like truth, even if it is, can be hurtful, is so important. However, in giving of the truth, then we have our whole, then, you know, it was this quote that I love. I was telling her,

not everything that a man thinketh can be disclosed, not everything that a man discloseth can be considered as timely. And not every timely utterance can be considered suitable for the one who hears it. It's a quote from Baha'u'llah. So the idea is not everything that you think can be said, you're right?

And then you just, it's like the three wise. And then you have to really think about when you're saying and when you're giving that feedback. But maybe we can also be that for each other. Yeah, I'd love that. I know that would be amazing. No, I'd appreciate it. I think we need more people in that category in our lives who can do that and you're forced to shut up and listen because you want to and I want to ask you some some advice now because even though you know, I'm not doing I don't have much. I don't know. No, no, I'll tell you why. I'm not a father yet.

And and in my life, obviously, one I have kids at some point. And and the reason why I'm asking you this is, I'd love to hear how you've been trying to pass on whatever you have or to learn from your children to in this process, because I know it's a two way thing, you know, it is, man. Well, I think our children teach us more than we teach them, especially in the first few years. My kids, one of the things that I'm trying, actively working on is trying to see the world the way they do.

I don't know why or how we forget the wonder of the fact that somehow, like, our body, we've come into existence from not from any will of our own doing. So we're here. And all of this is happening, and everything was somehow built and created, and we're just like, yeah, that's Hollywood Boulevard.

Yeah, yeah. Like, no, that's Hollywood Boulevard. Like what's underneath that? Like, whoa, the sun rises and sets. The stars, like my kids, look at all of this in there. So curious. And we're just like, that's old news. But is it like stars really?

Like, is it old news? The fact that what we're looking at doesn't actually exist today and it's millions of light years away that those are balls of gas that were planets that were once there or not there are stars. It's like, we forget and then we just get, and then we're just like, yeah, we're like,

oh, did I get, how many likes did that get? You know, and my kids are looking at the world with so much wonder and that's something that I'm really interested in and excited about that I try to remind myself like I stop and I look at the world and I look at the fact that I'm driving a car. Like we're driving a car or you're flying on a plane. Like we ever just, like, how often do you stop

and you look at like that thing weighs a hundred tons and yet it's somehow in the air. Like, it's like the world is magical, man. Like, we're spinning my wife. My wife often talks about the moon and so Maya's obsessed with the moon and trying to explain to her what the moon is. And then in explaining to her what the moon is,

you're like, oh my God, that's freaking cool. Like, we're actually, look, what are we looking at? How big that thing is, how we're rotating and how the moon's rotating and there's the sun. So that's something that's exciting to me is looking at the world with wonder. And I think in terms of what I'm trying to pass on to them, I'm trying to do a few different things.

One of the things I'm trying to do is show that I'm not perfect. Because I think the moment that we realize our parents are human is one of the hardest moments of any person's life. And I want her growing up and him growing up to see me as just like what I'm talking about today, which is I'm just trying to figure this out.

And hoping that me asking questions and digging in and my wife doing the same will give them a completely new set of tools that unfortunately most of the world doesn't have right now, which is introspection. And also, of course, raising them with faith from an early age, but explaining that faith has to be practiced, right? And by faith we're told that faith is the funus of words and the abundance of deeds, you know, teaching them that it's about doing, right? Faith is about doing.

The ways that that's practically happening, you know, is when things happen, it's like a real-time explanation of why Daddy's crying or why Mommy's upset. And understand teaching them that it's not about them or when you lose your temper explaining that, I'm just overwhelmed, but this is not your fault. I'm doing this thing now where I'm teaching my son where his heart is, he's 20 months old. And I was thinking about practically all the things that I didn't learn, not because my dad

wasn't able to teach me, but because it wasn't in his like orbit, and so I'm teaching him where his heart is physically first. And then I'm starting to also teach him all the things that his heart can do. So I've wrote a song of the night called Show Me Your Heart, right? So we're like literally singing about, like, show me your heart. And now they sing it. And I say, where's your heart, Max? Well, he just goes here. And then it's about saying, well, you know your heart is the strongest muscle in your

body, right? Of course, it's good to have muscles, but nothing is stronger than your heart. I love that. With Maya, we do this thing when we put them to sleep at night, and I, and I, anybody's, and I, I don't share this in a way of saying like this is the right way to do it or look at us, but we go through attributes, because we believe the only way you can know God is through his attributes, right? His it attributes. So we talk about all the things that she is, starting with brave, strong, kind, patient, resourceful, powerful, beautiful, noble. And we go through this long list and she repeats after me and after my

wife every single night. And then we talk about all the people that she loves, and then always ends with her loving God, and then her loving herself, and being enough. And now we're doing that with Maxwell, but he can't say all the things. So, but his first words that he's learned are these attributes of God, right? All of these attributes.

And then what happens is things happen during the day, and we're finding little ways to connect what happens during the day with the we're finding little ways to connect what happens during the day with the words that she's learning at night, and the words that he's learning at night. So if she shares something with her brother, we talk about how, my see, you're giving or see yourselfless, right? These attributes, because we believe that most of our spirituality develops before the age of five. Yes. And so those are some of the ways. And then also just making sure that they know that we're flawed.

And that's going to be critical as they get older, is explaining that like, daddy doesn't know what to do here, or daddy messed up. Here's what daddy did wrong. And here's how we're learning about it. And so that I don't have to fall from grace when they're in their 20s because that's going to happen. Yeah. And everything. All right. There's going to be that moment where I'm not a superhero. Right. And also making sure that they know that I can't fix everything. And I can't save the world. I can't save everything. But I'm going to do my best. I love them, man. That's so awesome. And I love the fact that you're also setting this.

It's setting an example in a human way. And I think that's the balance. It's like you're setting an example in a human way. And I love that. And I see you doing that. And I haven't been with you yet. And I really want to, when you next to it, the skid row kind of love love that you do. Oh, it's my thing.

It's my thing. It's probably just a special challenge. It's my thing. But I 100% want to turn up with you because I've seen it. I've only witnessed it through social media. Thank you for social media to be able to see what you do. And I've been traveling when you've done it here and you've been invited in the past.

And I really want to join next time you do it. Because I think it's like this, you know, for your kids to grow up and see that and not see you as Superman is like the perfect person. But to see you as someone who's wanting to make a practical difference too, like being out there doing things. I mean, that to me is so special

because I think when children grow up and see their parents doing things that they don't need to do in one sense or whatever, maybe, oh yeah, I give money to something or we do this, that's good. But when you're giving your time and your energy, like time is our most valuable resource. And it's one of the reasons why I think it's so great

that you start every one of your podcasts by thanking people for their time. So when you give your time, that's a true act of love. It's one of the reasons why. So I have this quote from Abdul Baha'u My this is in my wife's handwriting And it says this is like the the it's like the essence of So much of the way that we try and attempt to live where there is love

Nothing is too much trouble and there is always time and this idea of Of course time is limited, but when you love something, right, there's always time and how is love manifest indeed? So, that's kind of at its core really what it all comes down to is what are we choosing to give our time to, which is one of the biggest struggles living in 2019, 2020, right, living in this modern day, which is so many things that want to take our time. This good real carnival just for two seconds. Yes, please. Oh, that's just the coolest day ever.

It's a day of humankindness. And from the outside, and it looks like a big carnival in the middle of one of the worst manmade disasters in our country, Skid Row. We clearly have an epidemic of people experiencing homelessness in Los Angeles as the, you know, the data just came out and we're like skyrocketing through the roof. And it's really it was a way to figure out how to use like the perceived celebrity and coolness to actually create real, you know, real impact and change. And so we started with trying to create an event that brought people all to the worst place in Los Angeles and physically transformed it into a day of joy and love. And it's one of the most beautiful things I've ever experienced. Because for one day, you cannot tell who is homeless and who isn't. You cannot tell who's richer, who's poor,

who's struggling with an addiction or a mental illness or not, right? Because the chances are both sides are. It is a day where everybody comes together and sees each other as one. You don't see people on their phones, people aren't taking selfies, people show up to work to be of service on both sides. And the way it works is we have this day where we partner with all these service organizations. We bring all the people together that are competing for the same money from the government and from the state, and we bring them all together to offer all the services in one place. And we create a day where one volunteer gets partnered with one guest who's experiencing

homelessness, and they walk through this experiential carnival together. And of course, there's the superficial things like food and clothing. There's like gorgeous barbecue and truckloads of clothing and toys for kids. But then there's all the other things. There's psychologists, there's social workers, there's the DMV for ID cards, there's housing initiatives, there's dental, there's medical, there's eye exams, there's classes for people that can't see. There's blood tests, HIV tests, there's triage for people that have open wounds on their feet. Like, you name it, it's there.

There's haircuts, there's manicures, pedicures, feet washing. We wanted to create this experiential day, but all the guests are providing the service, and it's a one-on-one connection. And that, and what came out of that was an idea to take it further. And we created the, it's called the one-to-one program, where we're now taking as a pilot program 100 volunteers, and we're partnering them with 100 people experiencing homelessness or extreme poverty that want to be a part of this program for one year of friendship. And then we're going to fund the friendship in the sense that we're going to give every volunteer a $500 gift card that can only be spent on the friendship. And based on the exact needs of that individual. So if that person maybe needs, maybe they

just need a night away from where they are or a new outfit for a job interview or whatever it, or maybe they just need to go see a movie or they just go have coffee together. Whatever it is, it's about building this friendship. And then we provide the support to both of them via all the different service providers that we know. Because I believe that the one thing we're not doing when we're looking at the problem of homelessness is we're not addressing it from a human standpoint, which is like, forget about addiction.

First of all, everybody needs housing. I'm a big housing first initiative, because you can't get your life together unless you have housing, right? Imagine trying to go to a job, but sleeping on the street, or trying to show up on time somewhere, or trying to battle depression, or your substance abuse addiction,

which is always caused by past trauma without having a freaking place to live. We are totally backwards the way we're approaching the issue. However, why are we looking at it from a place of human to human connection, saying, you matter, I see you, I love you, you belong in society, there is nothing different between you and me. I'm not otherwise in you. I'm bringing you in and what can I do to help? We're not looking at it from that point. Yes, let's put people in and what can I do to help? We're not looking at it from that point. Yes, let's put people in housing. Yes, let's get people help, but let's also see if we

can create awareness by building friendships. So we're testing this program, we're seeing what happens, we're seeing what results come from it. My hope is that it can become a scalable solution to people that have servant-oriented hearts that want to actually feel like they're doing something and with people that want to get off the street or want to create and want to have an actual friendship and What we found is that they're people on both sides that want the same thing. So let's bring them together and You know, we'll see what happens. That's beautiful man. Crazy. I'm so glad you're doing all this and you haven't figured it out yet I haven't it makes me happy. I haven't I know I know I know you're honest and sincere when you say that but what I'm so glad you're doing all this and you haven't figured it out yet. I haven't. It makes me happy.

I haven't, man. No, I know, I know you're honest and sincere when you say that. But what I'm saying is, imagine, imagine not that we ever figure it out, but no, imagine as you grow even more and more, we're going to be so grateful as a world to have so many of your gifts in a, you know, and receive all of them because I'm so happy to speak to you today and hear from you and hear about all the incredible work you're doing across the board. And the fact that you haven't figured it out, that gives me a lot of faith.

No rule I ever. Well, and that's what I've loved about, we brought up Marvel earlier. That's what I love about superheroes. Like, superheroes are not perfect. And we have this viewpoint, which when you look from an untrained eye, you think of the Marvel superhero as perfect.

But they're not, they've all got flaws, they've all got origin stories. They've all got issues. But they're still trying to do their best, right? They're still going out there and trying to save the world and trying to make a difference with all their flaws. And they're working through their flaws in the background behind the scenes when you don't see. I've always thought of superheroes as our parents. Yeah. They're just our parents. Like all Superman is as our father is trying to figure it out. Yeah. They're just our parents. Like, all Superman is, as our father is trying to figure it out. Right.

Yeah. But yeah, man. Yeah. No, I really appreciate. Thank you for having me. No, so great. No, we probably went way over on that. No, this is perfect.

We still, we end every episode with the final five, which is a final five rapid five quick fire out. Oh, God. You can either answer in one word or one sentence maximum to no more than that. I totally forgot. I did not, I forgot that we had one sentence maximum. Oh, no. To know more than that. You'll be fine. I did not, I forgot that we had to do this.

Yeah. Okay. So question number one is what is the best advice you've ever received? All right. The best advice I ever received is from somebody who's, uh, who's very near to passing away actually. He was, he's a very dear friend. And I was in that early part of my relationship

with my wife and we were struggling because it was not easy. And he told me, whatever my emotions are telling me to do, do the opposite. If it's not coming from the purest and sheer place of love, my reaction, my emotional reaction to something, is the thing that I need to run from.

And at single-handedly, I think saved my relationship, which became my marriage, because our insecurities were triggering each other. And everything that I was doing was not working. And I just wanted to like overcome it and push. And he sent me down. He's like and he was and he was and he was and he was a he's a Qi Gong master and a martial artist and a meditator. He would meditate for like six hours a day. He was to do the opposite of what you're feeling when it doesn't come from love. So his name is named, his name is Marvin. So sending him tons

of love. I love it man. It's awesome. Send him love too. too. Love that question number two. What's the worst advice you've ever received? Oh my God. I can't think of one. I've received so much, so many, so many, so much terrible advice. You stump me. Okay, that's cool. Yeah, I can't think of one. Here's what, that's cool.

Yeah, I can't think of one. Here's what's coming up. Sure, yeah, yeah. Any advice another parent gives to another parent. That's unsolicited. Okay, good. Actually, here's the answer to the question. The worst advice I ever received is unsolicited advice.

Nice. That's good. I like it. Okay, good, that's a good answer. Okay, I'm gonna help. Anyone tell me guess struggles with that. I like it. Okay. Good. That's a good answer. Okay. I'm going to help.

Any one time a guest struggle with them, I'm going to bring that up. Yeah. Uncelesive rights. Yeah. Because it's not asked for. Yeah. Question three. Something you're trying to learn right now.

Yeah. Something you're wanting to learn right now that you're working on. Learning. I'm rewiring my brain right now via something called narrow feedback because I actually have a very addictive brain and I struggle a lot with stillness and my meditation comes from moving and I want to be able, like you, to sit in stillness and meditate because I believe that through stillness and through quiet and meditation, as Abdul Bahá'u'll says, the mysteries of the universe are revealed. And so I'm really working right now and actively quieting my brain and sitting and meditating.

That's awesome, man. I love that. Question number four, something that you're trying to share at the moment, something you're trying to teach, something you're trying to give. Something I'm trying to teach and give is that I really believe that service is the key to everything. And ambition and service can sometimes be in direct conflict. And stripping it all down to the wise, right? Like why are we wanting to be of service? So that's the thing that I'm really interested

in exploring and teaching right now is asking people to dig into why they really want to do something. Like why do you want to be of service? Great, why that, why that, the three wise. I love that. And question number five, I've never asked this to anyone on the show before, but when are you and your wife coming over for dinner? Well, as soon as we get into the fight, I'm so excited for all of us to hang out.

Yeah, meet together. I think we do a full way into it. Yeah, although I'll know we should. We should do it. Because my wife and I are really interested in, we've had so many people come to us Because my wife and I are really interested in, we've had so many people come to us about marriage. Yes. And this idea of goals and thinking that we're perfect and all these things and we are constantly trying to tell people that it's the opposite of that. It takes real, substantial, uncomfortable work.

And we only show the 20% of our lives that we want people to see, that we project. And Emily and I are really, really excited. We're going to be diving in and possibly even creating content around dating and marriage, because we just see so many people that want it, but don't realize what it takes. And I feel like you and your wife are similar there. So, but we have to be careful because us together,

we're just going to, you know, we'll probably end up coming up with too many things. And we don't have the time to do everything. Yeah, no, I love it. Justin, you're amazing. Thank you so much. Everyone who's been listening and watching, if you got this far, I'm so grateful.

Thank you so much. If you've listed the whole way through, I appreciate it so much. It means so much to us. I'm guess my prediction is most of you will make it all the way through because Justin is, I won't take it personally. phenomenal to listen to. I'm going to go, I'm as I won't take it personally. phenomenal to listen to.

I'm going to go, I'm genuine, and I genuinely mean this, I'm going to go back and listen to this episode again and make notes because there were multiple times where I was like, if this wasn't a conversation, I wish I had a phone in my hand to take notes. I wish I was writing notes. So I'm going to go back, listen again, I highly recommend it.

That's where Jay says it. So go ahead, go and find three things in here, go and find one thing in here that you can practice for the next week. That's what I'd love for you to do. It's find one thing in here that really resonated with you, that really connected with you. And for the next seven days, the next month, just try and practice that in your life. Because if you can make it relevant, if you can make it real, then you can just take one thing away and start implementing in your life. That is where you'll make the biggest

changes, not just posting the quote on Instagram, not just sharing the shareable moment, but actually trying to live that every day. So I highly recommend that you do that. I think Justin gave us a choice of at least 100 million ideas that you could try and implement. So just try and pick one. Thank you so much, Justin. Thank you so much, and I'm so grateful, honestly. Thank you, man.

Thank you so much for listening through to the end of that episode. I hope you're going to share this all across social media. Let people know that you're subscribed to on purpose. Let me know. Post it. Tell me what a difference it's making in your life. I would love to see your thoughts. I can't wait for this incredibly conscious community we're

creating of purposeful people. You're now a part of the tribe, a part of the squad. Thank you for being here. I can't wait to share the next episode with you. Getting better with money is a great goal for 2023. But how are you going to make it happen? Ordering a book that lingers on your nightstand isn't going to do the trick. Instead, check out our podcast How to Money. That's right, we're two best buds offering all the helpful personal finance information you need without putting you to sleep. We offer guidance three times a week and we talk about debt payoff, saving more, intelligent

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