On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Kelly Rowland ON: How To Build Stronger Relationships & Find Your People

Episode Date: December 14, 2020

One of the most meaningful things Kelly Rowland has ever done is admit that she was wrong. In choosing the path of humility and patience, Kelly lays bare the strategies she’s cultivated to build lasting, supportive relationships. It’s those relationships, with her son, her husband, and her “she-cosystem” that make Kelly feel strong. On this episode of On Purpose with Jay Shetty, Jay talks with singer and actor Kelly Rowland about what she has learned from becoming a mother, her reinvented musical identity, and the importance of personal accountability in her relationships. If you enjoy On Purpose, you’ll love Jay’s Genius workshops and meditations. Go to https://shetty.cc/OnPurposeGenius to learn more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Namaste. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. The number one health and wellness podcast in the world thanks to each and every single one of you. I want to thank you for having stayed with us throughout 2020 for using us as your source of insight, inspiration and support during this really, really tough time time and I want to share with you why I think today's guest is going to help us go even deeper into an understanding of ourselves.

Today I'm speaking with none other than Kelly Rowland, someone who needs no introduction, but we'll be talking today about motherhood and feeling powerful and her new incredible music. Kelly's musician, actor and TV personality well known for also being a coach on the X Factor. This year, Kelly released new hits like Coffee, Crazy, and Hitman, and I just saw the music video for that. And it's epic. And most exciting of all, Kelly is preparing to welcome her second child very, very soon. Kelly, thank you so much for doing this. I'm so grateful to finally be talking with you. I'm so excited to be talking to you. I literally feel like I know

you and your beautiful wife. I can't wait for us to actually meet. We started connecting and interacting earlier this year. And you know, for me, obviously, for me and my wife, we've been long, long, long-term fans. And to see you just share such positive energy and insight and diving into difficult conversations, I was so drawn to that and attracted to how you were using your platform for that. And I'm so glad we get to share this space together today. Me too.

I'm so excited. And I think this space together today. Me too. I'm so excited. And I think I've been waiting for our conversation. So just happy that it's presented itself today for sure. Yeah, absolutely. And I wanted to stop because we are in the holiday season. And I do think it's always nice to celebrate and be optimistic around the things that are around us. And you recently started and executive produced a new movie

called Merry Little Christmas. And I wanted to ask you like, what excites you about the holiday season after so many years? Or what are you doing for the kids to make it feel special and different? You know what? I just remember being a kid. And we didn't have much growing up.

And I remember my mom and I living with my great aunts and wanting something as simple as they were all in rocking chairs. So I literally wanted, I asked for a red rocking chair like my aunt Lillian. I literally wrote that to Santa and said that that's what I wanted. So when it came to Christmas, I just remember never really asking for a whole lot.

I knew that we couldn't really do it. And so when I had my son, I went crazy. I went a little crazy with the presents. But I realized I've had to scale it back a bit just so he can understand how important giving is, just as much as we love receiving things but how important giving is. So that was always a really big thing in my household.

And then I started growing up watching all these holiday movies and how I just wanted a up watching all these holiday movies and how like I just wanted a piece of like all these movies like in my life and so to be able to have those experiences and then be able to you know executive producing star in a Christmas movie is really kind of mind blowing and just like sends me into a whole like oh oh my gosh, this is awesome. So I don't take any opportunity for granted for sure. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And yeah, I look forward to watching it.

I'm really looking forward to it. My wife's gonna watch it together. We've been, I'm so glad that it's December now where I feel like I'm finally allowed to start watching festive movies, put up the music on. And so I'm really looking forward to it. But, you know, obviously everyone's celebrations different to it. But obviously everyone celebrations different this year and something that you celebrated this year

is that you did your baby shower virtually, I believe, which is obviously different to what you've done before. Tell us how different that was and what that experience was like now living it in this year and how you were able to do it and it's such a meaningful and beautiful way. You know what? I mean, for so many of us out here, I think that when we are having these moments where we keep thinking about,

I know for me, I keep thinking about the fact that we're just in our homes and we have everything we need, you know, but I can't help but to think about other people who don't have everything that they need. So what can I do? I'm not the only person having a baby, you know what I mean? I think the only person preparing for it. So if I know that's the truth, like what else can I do? And I've been doing work with baby to baby and been in an angel, a baby to baby angel for a couple of years now, and just seeing firsthand what they do and what we do together as a community of women and together as a community as well.

When we have, of course, the fundraiser and everything, it's necessary. You know what I mean? The work is necessary. Essentials, essential basic needs for kids and their families is necessary. No child asked to come into this world. And when we get gifted the responsibility of a child, you know, and life happens or circumstances

happen, I think that it's our job to care for each other as best as we can. And that's what we do over a baby to baby. And I just really wanted to do that because I literally had everything from Titan's birth. So I'm just like, I got a crib, okay, what else can I get? And I'm just like, I'll just get it, you know what I mean? And I just wanted to do that for someone else. I love that. I love that we haven't even been talking for like five minutes. And all you've been talking about is giving and helping and supporting and serving. And I love that because it's just your heart. And it just emanates from you. And we were speaking briefly when before we started recording. And even when you came on and

you said my name and you said it in a way that we knew each other. And I felt that. And I was like, you know, I love that for you, it feels like gratitude and service and giving just feel like such central pillars. Has that always been the case, or was this something you had to work on and develop, or where did that come from? I think it came from family faith, being in a position where I've not had everything, you know what I mean? And knowing what that felt like, wanting help and sometimes not wanting to say what it is that I needed, you know what I mean?

It is watching my mom worked really hard. You know, and I had two moms growing up, you know what I mean? I had my mom, of course, who got rest or soul. And I watched her work her butt off. And then I had a baby's mom, be I say is mom Tina, and I watched her work. So I had these two dynamics of motherhood and women and focus and everything and I just feel really blessed by that

because they both taught me to give. And they taught me to be a cheerful giver. And I think my faith, of course, above anything, has made me a cheerful giver. But I love it. You know what I mean? It makes me feel good from the inside. I feel like we're all here to serve a purpose and to be responsible.

And that makes me feel whole. It's just a, it makes me feel whole. Yeah, that's, I feel it. That's so beautiful. It's, it's amazing to hear that even though you mentioned how, you know, you started out with nothing and that even despite how your life has changed, it seems like the thing that gives you the greatest joy is still giving and supporting and serving others, which is so beautiful. How was it? How was it growing up with two incredible role models? Because it sounds like that was such a special thing

to see two women that were so powerful, professionally focused, but also able to inspire you in that way. What was that experience like? Well, I mean, to be honest, my relationship with my mom, even as a kid, was really interesting to say the least. We all have those stories.

But I always watched her give. I always watched her give in church, in service. And I think that like she's the one that solidified the faith giving for me. And then when it came to watching her sacrifice, I don't think I really appreciated her sacrifice, J, till she passed. So like I had this moment, maybe two or three years after her passing where I said, oh my gosh, that's why she did that. You know what I mean? And I literally took this moment and I was quiet and I set a prayer and I just told her, thank you for the sacrifice. Now I get it. I know what that took. I know how

hard it was. And it was so much forgiveness there. And I didn't realize how much I needed it. And it was necessary for life. So between that and then the dynamic with my mom, a tea is I call her. My mom, a tea was just always giving. And when it came to whether it was tithing in church or like even recently, there's a young woman who's building a charity, and she's doing it in a specific way that we really respect and love. And she was like, we need to really help this woman out because she just don't know what she's going to do. And da like, I'm grown and I'm still getting these calls. Like, no, no, no, this needs to happen. And make sure you do it today, baby, because she needs to make sure that she's, you know

what I mean? It's like, it's that. And after all these years, it's still like that. And it's still important. And it's even more important now, because I have a child and having another child. And you are the first example. Yeah, I love what you said there that even though you realized it was after your mother pastor's way of her sacrifice that you still took that moment to express a prayer and gratitude

and thanks to her even then. And I think that's such a beautiful, powerful message for all of us. If anyone who's listening or watching has lost someone this year or in the past, and obviously it's never easy whether it was this year or any year, and I just want you to take a note from what Kelley just said is that you can still pray, send loves and gratitude to that person, whether they're still physically present or not. And I think that that is such a beautiful way to live

because I've spoken about it a couple of times about how I lost one of my greatest spiritual mentors in my life. It was like a father to me. He passed away this year after suffering from stage four brain cancer. So he didn't pass from COVID. And it was, it was so hard because I couldn't go back for his funeral because, because of COVID. And so I couldn't actually see him before he passed away or I couldn't

obviously go to his funeral, which I really wanted to attend. And the only thing that's really helped me go through it, of course, faith, but the understanding that trying to be what he wants me to become and the qualities that he had in his heart, that keeps him alive for me. And it makes him feel very real and with me. And I think that, you know, I think what you shared, there's really, really powerful and beautiful about, even though you noticed it afterwards, you were still able to connect in that way. So thank you for sharing that. Of course.

Of course. Yeah. No, I really appreciate that. I think that's going to help a lot of people this year, especially, because everyone's lost something and people have lost someone. And so, you know, I think that's going to be really powerful. I want to speak to talking about your intention behind naming your children, because I think it's so beautiful and powerful.

And obviously, the sun's called Titan Jewel, which is like, what a powerhouse name. And I wanted to understand, like, how do you see naming differently or like your intention behind how you select names? And I'm not going to ask you to share any names or anything. I just yeah just to understand that better. With with Titan's name I kept thinking about wanting to give him strength that I felt like I didn't have or a strength that I felt like I was like still working on. And here's how the universe works. So my husband named him, Titan.

And I was like, what a great name. And he's like, yeah, I think it'll be great. And then my husband's father was named, his middle name was Jewel. So Titan Jewel, and I kept thinking about, oh, he's the Jewel and, you know, our crown and all this other kind of stuff. But it was so interesting because his name actually gave, I really, I needed to hear his name at the time when I had him. You know what I mean?

Just to remind myself, I was built for this, I was ready for motherhood, because I was nervous at first. As we all would be for bearing her period. But I kept hearing his name and his name was just constantly, like not just feeding my life, but feeding everything that I was doing in this weird way. I don't think I've ever spoken about this, but it just kept reminding me.

You know what I mean? It was of course about his name, which I feel like he is so strong. Because I'm like, headstrong, physically strong, just strong, period. But he reminds his space about that everywhere that he goes. It's so interesting. But I felt like intention is really important

behind our children's names. And what does it mean? And who or if it's somebody that you even admire, I kept thinking about, well, what am I going to name this baby? And I mean, and wrote down so many different things and funny enough, me and Titan, I was in Vancouver filming. And Titan was here. I wrote down one of the names and Titan calls me and tells me that he wants to name the

baby this name and it was one of the names that I wrote down. No way, that's amazing. So I was like, whoa, it was so cool. So he named the baby. I was literally like, this is perfect. I love that, I love that. And that's so interesting though what you said that because I didn't think about it like that

when I was asking the question and you were saying you hadn't said that before or shared that before around how actually the way you name your kid gave you strength at a time when you needed it. And that's so powerful to think of it that way that, we always, I'm not a parent yet, and my wife and I look forward to when we can be,

and when we choose to be, but the idea of you always think you're giving to your children, but as a mother and as I've heard from many parents, it's like so often the kids are teaching you. I'm honestly constantly a student. It's so interesting how like you are in this space where you're like, there's a matter of year the parent, they're constantly teaching you everything.

I just feel like they're constantly teaching you everything. And he's made me a better person, he's made me a better woman, He's made me a better woman. He's made me a better business woman. I just feel like he's taught me a lot about love and forgiveness. It's amazing. And marriage has to, by the way.

Marriage, hey. Would you like to say hi to Mr. J? Hey, how's it going? Sun, I still need you. Maybe not this early say hi to Mr. J? Hey, how's it going? Sun I used to meet you. Maybe not this early. No ice cream, this early baby. But I know, but you can have some tonight.

We'll have some together. Can we save it for together time, please? Okay, but when can you have some snack? You can have a snack. Go, go, go. But listen, can you do me a favor? Can I have this time? I have like 50 more minutes, okay?

Thank you, sweetheart. Oh, that was adorable. I mean, it's so cute. It's so cute. I love it. I love it. Asking for ice cream at 11.30 AM. That's the best.

That's amazing. I love it. It was also.m. That's the best. That's amazing. I love it. It was also wonderful to see your interaction with him. It's so sweet. But you were saying he's taught you a lot. And marriage. And marriage too. Yeah, I mean, just patience. You have no choice, but I didn't think I had any patience.

No, I'm serious. Yes. I was like, this is not the first time I felt like a real big tension. I was like, this is not going to go well. And my only understanding of figuring things out is just to dismiss them. Do you know what I mean? To not handle it or communicate communicate or talk it out. So communication has been the longest freaking road of my life with everything.

It gives us an example of something that you think, where you've seen that shift, where someone could go, oh, I see that in myself too, because I think there's a lot of people nodding right now back at home or listening, watching, going, I feel that in myself too, because I think there's a lot of people nodding right now back at home or listening, watching, going, I feel that, like, you know, so many reminders. Tell us about a shift that you experience. If you can.

Yeah, of course. Marriage. Marriage. Marriage. Marriage. First of all, the, the, oh gosh, it was just a really big misunderstanding. And between my husband and I, and I'll never forget, not saying exactly that I was wrong.

You know what I mean? Because we I think that sometimes like we sometimes hate to be the one that is inflicting pain or inflicting the misunderstanding. And you don't you don't mean to do it of course, but I think that life just books, experience, relationships, they all teach you. You try to navigate your way through people as much as you can. And I think that understanding comes with understanding yourself and understanding others as well. But I do think that you have to have this level

of understanding for self. I know that I do that, it's probably wrong. But when you see it, you have to be able to call it out. And so when I was able to call it out, and I said what it was, it was like, he kind of looked at me, like, did you just do that? You know what I mean? And I'll say that I'm wrong, but this time,

I was like, it was one that I didn't like about myself. It's always like that one thing, you're like, ooh, I wore that and that's really ugly. Like, I don't like that. And because you see it, like, and it's really ugly, you don't like it. And it just can't possibly exist in you, bowl, but yes, it can. So, yeah, it was a matter of seeing that,

calling it out and just moving forward and apologizing and having humiliation and just saying, it's okay, it's just a part of it. And, you know, moving on. That's so interesting. It's like wearing a bad outfit and never wanting anyone to see that picture ever again And then you're like trying to hide it and and like facing it but but even more deeper, but that's so interesting

What you said that We're scared to address things when we really don't like that about ourselves and And often it comes out when It's also we're scared because it almost feels like it's a weakness, not a strength, like it feels like a weakness to be like, I'm wrong. I have this part of me that I want to work on.

When actually that is strength, right? Like that is courage. We would encourage children to be honest with us. Or we would encourage children to tell us when they feel uncomfortable with something. But yeah, we get scared of that because we see it as a weakness. And I think that that's a really powerful lesson that you're sharing with us all is that, be in our relationships, and this is a little practical activity for everyone who's listening right now.

This week, observe your relationship with your partner, your parent, your child, whoever it is you want, and do, practice what Kelly's you shared with us. Look at something where you're scared of admitting that you're wrong, and ask yourself, is it because it's something you don't like about yourself? And then reframe that as a strength, to realize that it's not a weakness,

it's actually a strength to address that because that's a really powerful takeaway. I think me and my wife say that again, Kelly said. But it's hard though, y'all. It's hard. And the truth is it's like you may not see it at first and sometimes it takes a while or sometimes it takes a couple of years

and when you do finally see it just call it out and it has no no no space and it has no space in a negative way in any part of your life because if it shows up in one place it's going to show up everywhere else in some sort of way and I just I didn't want it to do that. And I was like, oh gosh, I didn't want it to do that. Yeah, yeah. That's, you're right. We have to be patient with ourselves.

And hopefully we've surrounded ourselves with people that are patient with us too, because that's needed sometimes. I know there's plenty of things that I've got wrong in my relationship. and Rade's been super patient with me about and you need that. You need someone who's patient with you and allows you to figure it out while you're figuring it out.

And I think sometimes we make the mistake of trying to fix the other person and change them. And it's almost like you just need to be patient while someone heals themselves. It's like, yeah, you can't always be the one to like engineer it perfectly for them. They sometimes they just need to feel that you have patients and you're there for them.

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Or, cityoftherails.com. Tell me about one of the things that you mentioned, we're titan choosing, you know, the name. It's like, so I remember I'm an older brother to my younger sister. My younger sister's not four and a half years old. I remember holding her since the moment she was born and like carrying her around and she was like my, you know, she was like my favorite person in the world. She still is, but definitely when we were kids, I have really good memories of being just old enough

to really interact with this. And I remember my parents, the way they prepared me was, my mom would say to me, she was like, pray for a little friend that's gonna come into the world, like pray every day. And so every day for like, since they knew she was already pregnant, I was praying for a little friend, which ended up having to be my sister.

How have you prepared Titan for what's to come? Or, how does that work? Yeah, how does that work? He's really preparing me. He's really preparing me because, first of all, I keep thinking about the fact that I love him so much. And for, it's been what, yeah, he's six years old. And for this long, it's taken me to get pregnant because I was like, do I have the capacity for two? I was like a little nervous about that.

And do I have the patience for two? And this one day it was like last year, I saw it away me and my husband were just doting over tidying. It was just so much. I was like, this is just too much. I feel like it's too much. I think it's time to share some spaces.

You know what I mean? So, you know, that's when we started like having the initial conversations about having another one. And, um, Titan did a video this one day before school and he goes, I wanna baby brother, I wanna baby sister. And I said, uh, well, which one do you want? You know what I mean? He says, I want

a baby sister. I want a baby brother. I said, well, I'm glad that you're open to both because we don't know what's going to happen. You know what I mean? Whatever. Oh, anyways, as soon as we found out that we were pregnant, we waited a while until I had like a little bump. And we finally sat him down and told him and his reaction, which I do want to share on Instagram because it's really sweet. He was so delighted to share his space and excited because this is what got me to just broke me. He goes, I won't be lonely anymore. He felt like when he goes like he's he's still in the bed with us. He's still sleeping with us because he likes the

connection and so he puts his hand like right underneath my armpit here or behind my back because he just likes touch. You know what I mean? And I realize we are a very affectionate family. Like we hug and we snuggle and we kiss and we this and we, like that's just who we are. And he said, he, all of his friends have siblings, except for like maybe two, but he always watches them

and then when one of the kids leaves their siblings, he goes and like, eases his way in there. So like one of his friends, Berkeley, Berkeley has a baby brother and he's like, hi, linen, hot like, it's Scorch linen all around the house. He does the same thing with another friend, Selene and her baby sister, Kaya, they're all like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like,

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it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's know what it was like for me, so I'm excited for him. And yeah, I'm excited for him and it's going to be a fun journey. I definitely, my youngest is still my best friend and it's such a special bond when you do feel that excitement around sharing your space with another being and seeing someone grow up and almost feeling somewhat like

a parent to them too in that sense. And it's a fun experience. So we're going to come to you for tips on parenting and everything when we get around to it. Okay. I want to switch to talking a bit about the amount of conversation you've been leading and sharing in mental health and community because I think that it's something that's so integral to people's daily lives and now people are becoming a bit more open and

communities are starting to destigmatize the conversation and communities that have struggled with it in the past. I know that from my own experience to South Asian communities massively struggled with it and being open and honest about it. And I've heard the same about the Black community too. And so, you know, it's interesting when you started to share messages. I was wondering, what tools have you gained from therapy over the years that you feel helped you this year, were there specific practices or insights or ideas that you really felt were useful this year or any challenging year, even if it's not this year, if there have been other challenging years in your life, where you found therapy.

You know, it's, I feel like someone told me before, like, don't wait to go to therapy when there's something wrong, just go. And I would go when there was something wrong. And so, by the time I got there, I was just this think of a ball of yarn. You know what I mean? Just like, just, but it was a big ball of yarn. You know what I mean? Just like, but it was a big ball of yarn.

So you're having to undo all of this stuff from so many years. And I think that people think that if you go in one time, even five times, that if everything's going to be okay, that's not the way it goes. Because I feel like you have to unravel all of this stuff to whatever is at the base, you know, the nucleus of whatever that trauma or void or whatever that is. And it takes a while and it's been a couple things in my life where I just was wondering why I was going through this same thing over and over and over and over again.

And so I finally got a chance to talk to someone who actually became. I feel like he's a soulmate almost. My friend Joe Boldouk and he has this beautiful Facebook space called Speak To Understand or Speak To Understand. And we would talk so openly to where it's almost like, what I was saying was he would finish my sentence. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so happy. I finally have somebody who was like understanding

what I'm saying. And I don't feel, I don't feel I'm going to use the word crazy. I don't feel crazy. I don't feel misunderstood. I feel like I'm being heard. And for me, that's what therapy is. I feel like I'm being heard. I feel like I'm communicating everything out. I feel like I'm getting everything out. So by the time I leave, I literally had a moment where I've left a therapy session and physically felt like I could have skipped a step.

And I mean, because I felt lighter. And I didn't realize in that space or time how much unforgiveness I was holding onto. And it was for a lot of people. And then I was realizing how self-critical I was and how all of that was connected. And it was just crazy. You know what I mean?

When you start to figure everything out. And so I'm figuring it all out and noticing how things are connected and how one has to cancel out the other if you don't get past this one and this will keep you stuck. And I was like, oh, you know what I mean? So it's so much to learn. And then when I, before I had tired

and I was like, well, I want to get all this stuff out before I have children. How is that possible? Because every day is gonna, every day you're gonna go through something new and something else is gonna come up. And it's just something else to get past, you know, and I think that there's nothing wrong with that because that's just what life is and that's the beauty of it

although it is a challenge, but it's still the beauty of it because you should be able at the end of the day to give yourself some credit and we are truly our greatest competitors, our greatest critique. And I did that for a long time. And sometimes the steel surfaces, and I still do that to myself. And it just becomes too toxic.

And then you realize how layered that is. What do you think is the greatest challenge you've overcome, personally, internally or externally? If you had to be like, this is the challenge that made me realize how strong I was and how critical I didn't want to be of myself. Where I realized that, you know, this was all just layers and conditioning, but actually underneath all of that, there was this powerful, strong, important being that cared and that was loving. What, what, what would you say that was? What do you think that was?

So many. I know it's always hard to pick one. I know. Um... I know, it's always hot to pick one. I know! Hahaha! Um... I think, uh...

Gosh. The definitely the self-critical part, the self-critical part, and constantly talking myself out of stuff. Oh, interesting. Yeah, talking myself... So consciously, too. Like, I'd talk myself out of stuff. And that, what I realized was all like stuff in the past.

And when I was able to talk about it, it was like, this is why, you know, and I remember what I did, what do you call the tapping sessions? Yeah, cupping. So I did tapping. And the more I was doing this tapping, but I thought it didn't work. But it came out one day and I literally had a space where I smelled, saw, and felt the space that I was in when the trauma was planted.

Wow. Yeah. So, and I was in a session and I'll never forget, I remembered what that space was and it was going in. Although I'm sure a lot of people will think this Kelly is sounds crazy but it's not because your body holds that kind of stuff and it remembers it there's this book that I still have to read called the the body keeps a score I believe and the the body kept that score for sure for 30 plus years and I had to get past that

For sure, yeah, which by the way makes you so conscious in being a parent because you'd like oh my god I can't say that to him like this because if I do what if it you know what I mean? I I'd be being a parent was a good thing and For me because I'm just thinking too much. You know what I mean? My husband is like, no baby, it's just a no. Just say no. It's okay, just say no.

And then move on. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to say no to this because what if he thinks that, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. He's like, no essay, it's just chill. So it's that. Yeah, and that's hard. Like that's hard because you're right

that the body does keep a score and we do hold onto these impressions in our mind and our subconscious and as you mentioned trauma as well. And trauma also, I think people misunderstand that they feel trauma means something very physical or something that's very externally abusive, which it can be, but sometimes trauma can come from just how someone perceives something.

Like, it may not actually, we may not feel it to be trauma, but because it had a deeper resonance with that person and they interpreted it to be traumatic or tragic, they could actually hold onto it for a lot longer. So you are right that being conscious with your children, et cetera, is powerful. But you're also right that there's the other side where there's this book called Anti-Fragility and it's all about how sometimes when you're overly... Wait, what is it? Anti-Fragility and it's all about how sometimes when you're overly...

Wait, what is it? I'm anti-fragility. I think it's called I'm checking it now as well. I'm just checking it to make sure that I got it right. Cause I'm like, that's anti-fragile. Anti-fragile, yeah, anti-fragile, sorry. And it's a term called anti-fragility. And it's the understanding of like,

do you, it's like that balance between, and it's not like tough love, or it's not like that. It's the balance between being caring and conscious, but then recognizing that everyone has their own experience as well, that they need to grow from. Whereas sometimes if you try and master someone's experience too perfectly, they actually just become fragile. Yes. Because they've never experienced any sort of, your muscles only get resilient when they get stressed and pressurized and pushed a bit.

You sound like Tim. My husband says the same thing. He's like, no, he has to go through that or he has to hear that. Or he, you know what I'm, it's always, I'm trying to sometimes save him from something. And Tim is like, no, he has to go through it. I think the combination is good.

I think the, I think the middle ground is good. I think it will be the same with my relationship. My wife will be like you. That's definitely how she sees it. And I think I'm gonna be like your husband, like that's deaf. But I think the combination's good because I think we do need a bit of both. I think all of us would say,

oh, we wish we were saved from this or taking care of from this in our lives. And I think all of us would say, oh, I wish I got to like try this. Or, you know, we're always gonna have that. So. But I'm happy. I will say, like a lot of people will have regrets

for certain things. And it's like maybe one thing that I have, like a regret over, but everything else molded me and made me into the one that I am today that I'm very proud to be. And I still feel like I'm a student. Like I said about being in motherhood and marriage, I still feel like a student. I still feel like I'm learning.

And I'm grateful to have people around to help me to navigate my way through that. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely get that. I think ultimately all of us have to find that narrative that what we've been through because it is just a perception change. But it's when you find that narrative, when you can really look back at your life and be like,

I know exactly why I went through that. And I know exactly why that pain came into my life. And as soon as you do that, you start to retell your story to yourself in a different way. It is so beautiful. And it's so beautiful. Yeah, it's so beautiful. And I've seen some people who've gone through some really horrific things do that, you

know, and when I've seen them do it, it's given me more confidence that if they can do it in the crazy lives that they've had and the stuff they've been through which is much worse than mine, then that makes sense. Absolutely. A good way to learn about a place is to talk to the people that live there. There's just this sexy vibe and Montreal, this pulse, this energy. What has been seen is a very snotty city. People call it Bose-Angelists.

New Orleans is a town that never forgets its pay. A great way to get to know a place is to get invited to a dinner party. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Newton and not lost as my new travel podcast where a friend and I go places, see the sights, and try to finagle our way into a dinner party. We're kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out. I would love that but I have like a Cholala who is aggressive towards strangers. I love you dogs. We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but we also learn about ourselves. I don't spend as much time thinking about how I'm going to die alone when I'm traveling,

but I get to travel with someone I love. Oh, see, I love you too. And also, we get to eat as much— I love you too. My life's a lot of therapy goes behind that. You're so white, I love it. And also we get to eat as much... Listen to Not Lost on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hot some minds on the planet.

Oh pro. Everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant. The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters. Kevin Haw. It's not about us as a generation at this point. It's about us trying our best to create change.

Luminous Hamilton. That's for me being taken that moment for yourself each day, being kind to yourself, because I think for a long time I wasn't kind to myself. And many, many more. If you're attached to knowing, you don't have a capacity to learn. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. I am Yannla and on my podcast, the R-Spot, we're having inspirational,

educational and sometimes difficult and challenging conversations about relationships. They may not have the capacity to give you what you need. And insisting means that you are abusing yourself now. You human! And that means that you're crazy as hell, just like the rest of us. When a relationship breaks down, I take copious notes, and I want to share them with you. Anybody with two eyes and a brain knows that too much Alfredo sauce is just

no good for you. But if you're going to eat it, they're not going to stop you. So he's going to continue to give you the Alfredo sauce and put it even on your grits if you don't stop him. Listen to the R-Spot on the iHeart Video app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. There's a lot of goodness in that recreating our own narrative and story and and picking apart our lives and trying to find meaning in it. And one thing I heard you say is that you formed a shiko system, which I loved, like, which I think is a big part of this, because I think it's hard to have, I think it's hard to reframe your story

without having a shiko system and having a group of powerful friends and people around you. Tell us a bit about how you came to that understanding and started seeing it as that, as creating this supportive ecosystem of other women and just also other people. I mean, my shiko system started when it started. I mean, at I mean, at 10, you know what I mean? When I first started being around the first little versions of Destiny's Child. You know what I mean?

And it was understanding girls at that time, but girls at that time and growing up in space and boundaries and advice and love being able to loyalty trust, being able to give it as well as receive it. Can I receive it? And you know what I mean? It was so much to learn, but I think that it's the greatest blessing of my life, because

my shiko system still is quite intimate, but it grows every now and then I literally will look up a guy like, please, this is it. I don't want to be friends. It's like, this is already enough, but then you'll meet someone and you realize that sometimes they need a shiko system. So it's been times where that's happened and someone will come in and they'll learn about,

you know, the how important we need each other as women. And I feel like I have the best shiko system in the world. I really, really do. I have all the elements that I that feel me and I'm so grateful for. And so grateful to have. So I love my shiko sister. I love that. Tell us some of the, if someone's listening

or watching right now, and they're like, I love that idea. I need to go build my shiko system. Tell us some of the like unwritten rules or principles or like ideas behind developing one. So if someone's listening going, you know, I really want to do that. What are some of the rules that they can follow

or some of the ideas that helped you kind of figure out? Like what you just said is so awesome. Like, oh, actually, I realize I may not want more people, but this person needs someone. So what were some of those ideas that helped build that? I say going off of your gut in your heart, for sure. I'd also say not judging each other so harshly. I find that sometimes as women, we are most hard on each other because I think subconsciously we're looking at another woman and

seeing ourselves or being competitive by accident because I think that's just the way society has done for so long and it's been a part of a control as well. So we have to start undoing that because sometimes the relationship is bigger than you. If that makes any sense, it's meant to, it's meant to like really, you guys learn so much from each other. You know what I mean? And it's necessary. So I think that not judging each other so harshly in it are like dismissing like once. I mean, there are some round rules. We all know that. But not dismissing immediately to where it's just like this person can never win.

You know, and that's really harsh because I've done it before. I'm guilty of it, for sure. And I have just like let someone go and then when I needed them, I called them back. And that's not cool either. So I feel like it should be a give and take in the relationship. And sometimes there are going to be moments in any relationship where that other person may need you at that time more than you need them.

And you find the balance of that. And sometimes you may need them more than they need you at that time more than you need them and you find the balance of that and sometimes you may need them more than they need you. You find the balance and you have some of those relationships where it doesn't take a lot. Like I have a girlfriend in Houston. We don't even have to speak every day. We probably speak every couple weeks or every month or every six months or, oh my God, I can't believe like a years grow by we pick up exactly where we left off. You know what I mean but

she's a person that I constantly want to hear from and laugh with and we have the best time and I just feel like those are necessary too. So you know it's just about being respectful and being kind. Always the basics. Speaking about being dismissive and judging harshly, you spoke up, I remember you shared this, and I remember sharing it too from you. You spoke up about, like, cancel culture

and against cancel culture, because you strongly believe in this idea of not judging people harshly and not just dismissing them. And it wasn't that you weren't saying to keep people accountable or I remember you explaining like you value accountability and you value conversation but not cancel culture. Can you explain that to us? Because I think I agreed with you so strongly on that and I thought you explained it really well. And obviously people still find ways to make it not make sense. But I want you to have an opportunity

to really explain that so that people can be like, I identify with that. I understand what that means. Yeah, well, I mean, for me, when I was talking about cancel culture, there were elements of it that I didn't understand, too, like, you know, being completely transparent. So, I respect when people come onto my page or my space, as I say, my space, and are able to articulate intelligently what they want to say to correct me. I don't mind being corrected, of course, at all.

But it's a way to say it to where we're trying to understand each other, not trying to bash each other because anybody got confident, like life is too short, it's just ridiculous. So when there were a couple people who were so beautifully and articulately like saying, Kelly, this is the difference. And I was like, okay, I got it. And I understand, like, people should be held accountable of their actions.

But when we start to see judgment in there, and we can't look at ourselves the rest of the way, like, it's a problem. To me, it's a problem. Because I think that we've all seen ourselves in a way where we have this humiliation. You know what I mean? And what does that feel like?

You know what I mean? To stand in humiliation is a really tough place to be. And it's not to say that they're right, not to say that we're right, not to say that they're just so wrong, not to say that we're so wrong. It's just not judging. You know what I mean, it's just not judging, just making sure that judgment isn't caught in between that because I feel like I'm human. I mess up all the time and I'm not perfect. And I am not going to get it right every single time and there'll be something that you'll just like find about me where you're like, I don't like that. And do you write me off?

Should I never, you know what I mean? Should I never be, you know, brought up or hurt or whatever again, like, you know what I mean? Should I stop talking to you? Do I, how do I help you get out of it? You know, even. And some people will completely disagree with me when I say this. But I feel like, you know, when you when you do live under a microscope for so long, you, instead of doing this so much, I always feel like, how would I feel like to be on the other side of that? And I just, I don't like it. I don't like it. And I feel like we can't do that to each other. But I know what the root of that is.

I know what the root of that is. And I know that the root of it is the self-awareness. And, you know, we judge ourselves harshly. We judge ourselves so harshly. We don't mean to. But somewhere in life or somewhere there, you know what I mean, and growing up and in our journey, our own journey, somebody did that to us. And how do we undo that?

I don't think that we make somebody else feel like garbage because they're wrapped up in their trauma and they can't find their way out of it. I have so much, it makes me want to cry, but I have so much compassion when it comes to that. And it's necessary, kindness is necessary. You know what I mean? I really want that tattoo or just all my forehead, so where I just wanna always remind people

that kindness is necessary. We needed it, and especially now, when we saw a country divided greatly divided, and even though someone has different beliefs or ideas of what things should look like, you know, they have, they're right or whatever of what it looks like. I don't necessarily agree, but I'm not going to hate you for it. I just, yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.

You reminded me of, I've read this today. I want to share it. It's by a writer named Russell Barkley and he said, the children who need love the most will always ask for it in the most unloving ways. And Russell Barkley, so I'll read it again, the children who need love the most will always ask for it in the most unloving ways. Because you don't know how.

Yeah. If it was never there, how do you ask for it? How do you receive it? How do you give it? Like, it's no rules on it. Yeah. Exactly. And that's what you just said.

That's it. That's why kindness, as you said, kindness is necessary because it's needed both ways to both the person we think that's doing the hating and the person receiving it to. It's such an important lesson. Let's talk about some of the amazing music you put out this year. I've been watching your videos too and they are epic. I just saw the hitman one,, you know, just literally just before we did this

and I was just like, oh, there's such a great video. I want to hear for someone who's made music for so long. Like how has your purpose and then secondary your creative process behind music transformed? Because there's very few people on the planet that have made music for as long as you have. And there's something to be said for that. Like, you know, it's just, it's phenomenal

to think of your full journey and to think of that whole growth phase. I want to hear how your process and how your purpose has grown behind the scenes. I remember, I mean, I just came into the issue just loving music, period. But I'd say like the process, the past, what since 2011 I'd say, has been, what do I like? What do I want to do? What like really like makes me excited and fulfills me and this, but really when once again, that Titan was again, that Titan,

because I wanted him to see me be authentic. And I felt like there were times in my life where I was kind of like maybe folding or bending sometimes according to the industry and where it was and what was popular and this and that. And I just finally got to a place where I was like, I'm gonna do whatever I wanna do. And I did.

And when I started to do that, I noticed things happen differently. And of course, like places in between there, I would doubt myself. But then it would always do something really cool or great or somebody would be like, yo, this is the best such and such you've ever made. Or, you know, it would have all these like number ones in different countries or whatever like I was like oh okay good This is working. Yay You know it was it was really that when before the process was kind of Calculated in my head or I want to say calculated as much as I was like so much thinking about what do you think? What do you think what do you think what do you think and?

It was what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? And it was, what do you think? So I like what I think. I like what I have to say. Yeah. I love how Titan has been like the theme of each of these revelations. Because it's right. Yeah, you want him to see his mother being herself so that he feels permission to be himself. And you're so right that, you know, all of us in so many different ways and we don't have to be in the public eye to not be ourselves. So many of us in our own lives have played so many roles where we haven't been ourselves. Yo, let me tell you by social media.

Because you're like, yo, as much as I love it, I'm watching, like, and we've all heard the conversation. It's no reason to even get into it. Like, I just want people to be their most beautiful, authentic selves. Like, I have fun with filters, but you're not gonna see me with it. You know what I mean? Like, let's see you. I don't wanna see you.

I wanna hear you, like, you know? Yeah. And yeah, and I think it's scary because you're so right, it's scary because we don't see it a lot. Yeah. And therefore you don't see it being liked and then you go, oh, okay, so if I do that, then it won't be liked either. And so it's kind of like this vicious cycle

that it keeps going around and around because we don't see it around us, so we don't be it. And then it just keeps escalating again and amplifying. So yeah, I think that's another powerful way of hoping that that's how your music changed. How do you think your music's changed from the perspective of it's, I guess that purpose element of that impact behind how you want it to make people feel, is that all to this? It's feeling for me. I just remember the first times of me listening to music how it made me feel.

And when I'm having a good time with my friends when we could have get together and stuff like that, what does this music make it me feel like you know like I remember being at Party two years ago and It was oh my god. It was such a good good night, and I'd heard Coffee spend and so he was spending and I'm on the dance floor and my eyes were closed for at least five minutes. And I was on my second class of champagne, but it was more and so like, I was just lost in the music. And it felt so good. I opened my eyes back up and it was everybody

on the dance floor. You know what I mean? And so when I opened up my eyes, it was so funny because someone came up to me. They were like, yo, you made it eyes, it was so funny because someone came up to me. They were like, yo, you made it look like it was like magic out here. I had to come in.

And I was like, that's dope. Like, because I feel like music is that infectious. And I was like, I want that. I wanted to wear feels like that. And so the moment I heard Hitman, specifically the track, I was just like, I was moved. I was like, oh my God, I just got so excited. And then the songwriter Sam Doe started

like just killing this melody. And I was like, oh my God, and it just kept feeling better and better. And it just became this cycle just of like goodness and good feeling and vibrations and I just couldn't help myself. I was like, let me in my head man. It just started bouncing off the walls. You can feel it and I wanted that and I'm so happy that I got that and I got that with every song off the record this time and I'm very proud of that.

off the record this time, and I'm very proud of that. Yeah, I love that. And you can feel that energy on the track when someone's in love with what they're creating. And then that way everyone else feels it too. And so I love that you're doing that. And I love that that's the, you know, not that you've always done it, but that I love that you're even more intentionally and consciously doing it now.

And inspired to see where it goes. So we end every interview Kelly with a final five, which is a fast five. So the answers have to be one word or one sentence maximum. Okay. You know I'm long winded, Jay, but okay, let's go. I will probably ruin this and ask you to give longer answers because that's what I do when I fall in love with and answer someone's gifts. So here are your final five.

So what is something you learned about yourself this year that you didn't know before? I'd say, oh, I'm very, very smart. Oh, I'm very, very smart. Oh, so I love it. What is your source for feeling powerful and abundant? My faith. And family. Okay, third question.

What's one thing that you are really sure about, but that sometimes people disagree with you. Ooh, really sure about what people disagree with me on. Judgement. If you could make one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Ooh, that's a good question. Okay.

To lead with kindness. Love that. Beautiful. I love that. Beautiful. I look forward to that being a real law. And fifth and final question. What's your prayer, your hope for everyone in 2021? Oh, my hope for prayer for everyone in 2021. Would be to have joy somewhere in their lives,

because we all need it. Thank you, Kelly. Absolutely. Absolutely. Beautiful. You're amazing. And I'm so grateful to have shared this time and space with you. I followed you for years, but to feel your energy through a screen, your energy is so genuine and so real that you can feel it through a screen. And I was like, I don't know. Like, your energy is so genuine and so real

that you can feel it through a screen. And spending this time with you has been so wonderful. I've been laughing and smiling the whole time we've been talking. And we've talked about some really deep and meaningful things. And we've talked about, you know, some profound topics. And like, I've just been beaming this whole time, thanks to you. So I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time to do this. And I want to ask you, as I always ask, is there anything that's on your mind right now that you

feel like, Jay, I have to share this or I'm thinking about something that I didn't say. If there is, then please share it. I literally feel like we touched on so many different things, especially now, but like when you said, what's something I want people to have in 2021, I feel like we had so many things taken away from us in 2020. And, you know, it's so funny because we went into 2020 like, this is perfect vision and this and this and that. And then it's like, wait a minute, like we feel like the rug was like snatched right from

underneath us. And it's like, you know, so much has happened, so much has happened. And I just really pray, my hope and my prayers for people to like really like on all the places that we felt like even more lost on as something was taken away from us on in 2020. Like that it's restored with, like that it's restored with

joy, like it's restored with joy. And whatever kind of way it could possibly be, I feel like we all deserve some sort of joy. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you so much, everyone. I hope you enjoyed listening to this episode. Please share your favorite parts on Instagram and tag me in Kelly and because I love seeing

what resonated with you, what connected with you and we'll be back again next week. But I want to say a big, big thank you to Kelly, go and check out all our latest music and the movie which I can't wait to watch with Rady Mary Little Christmas. And Kelly, I look forward to meeting you, I look forward to meeting Ty for them and I'm eagerly awaiting that moment. But thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I hope you have an amazing holiday season, and I look forward to seeing you in 2021. You as well, thank you so much, until your wife

I know how to drink water because of her. I will tell her that. I will tell her that. She's, she'll be really excited to know that you saw that video, so I'll tell her that, I will tell her that. She's, she'll be really excited to know that you saw that video, so I'll tell her that. Our senior producer is Julianne Bradley. Our associate producer is Jacqueline Castillo. Valentino Rivera is our engineer. Our music is from Blue Dot Sessions. And special thanks to Rachel Garcia, the Dust Light Development and Operations Coordinator. What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down an honorary to kidnap her lover,

and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, haven't comment. They're all real women who were left out of your history books. You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast. Check it out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. Regardless of the progress you've made in life, I believe we could all benefit from wisdom on handling common problems, making life seem more manageable, now more than ever. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the One-Dee Feed Podcast, where I interview thought-provoking guests

who offer practical wisdom that you can use to create the life you want. Twenty-five years ago, I was homeless and addicted to heroin. I've made my way through addiction recovery, learned to navigate my clinical depression, and figured out how to build a fulfilling life. The One-You-Feet has over 30 million downloads and was named one of the best podcasts by Apple Podcasts. Oprah Magazine named this is one of 22 podcasts to help you live your best life.

You always have the chance to begin again and feed the best of yourself. The trap is the person often thinks they'll act once they feel better. It's actually the other way around. I have had over 500 conversations with world-renowned experts and yet I'm still striving to be better. Join me on this journey. Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Conquer your New Year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast Podcast.

In each bite-sized daily episode, time management and productivity expert Laura Vandercam teaches you how to make the most of your time, both at work and at home. These are the practical suggestions you need to get more done with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our bodies strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to Before Breakfast on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts.