On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Marc Randolph: ON Co-Founding Netflix & Staying Happily Married for Over 30 Years

Episode Date: September 30, 2019

On this episode of On Purpose, I sat down with Marc Randolph. Marc is a Silicon Valley entrepreneur, investor and mentor. Marc was co-founder of Netflix, and CEO until his retirement from the company in 2003. Marc shares how to get started if you feel stuck, and why even the best ideas don’t really matter. You’ll also learn his best marriage advice and what to look for in a mentor. His approach to business and life will forever change your perspective on both. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg. Listen now on the iHeart Radio Amp Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart.

I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions. Like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to inner cosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the IHART Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

The one you feed explores how to build a fulfilling life admits the challenges we face. We share manageable steps to living with more joy and less fear through guidance on emotional resilience, transformational habits and personal growth. I'm your host, Eric Zimmer, and I speak with experts ranging from psychologists to spiritual teachers, offering powerful lessons to apply daily. Create the life you want now.

Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I have to appreciate everything about how unbelievably fortunate that I've been. I've had this idea that actually turned into a real company that had the chance to spend time with my wife and my family and have all these things happen. I do not deserve anything else, especially not to be complaining about that. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you. Now, I know that you're coming back every week to learn, to listen, to grow, to expand your mind, to be able to make a difference in your business,

in your work, to make an impact in your personal and professional lives. And you though, that I'm always focused on finding you incredible guests who I can learn from by listening to them and share their insights with you in digestible relevant ways so that you can make the changes, so that you can take the steps in your life to overcome those fears, to put aside those excuses, and start making real progress. And today's guest is going to help us do that in an unbelievable way. Now I'm going to introduce you to him in a second. And when you hear his resume, you hear what he's achieved.

And the work that he's doing now, it is going to blow your mind. So this is definitely one you want your notebooks out for. If you haven't got your notebooks out because you're traveling or you're driving or you're walking your dog, then take a screenshot right now and come back to this podcast so that you can take notes because I promise you the amount of mentorship you're going to receive is absolutely incredible. Today's guest is Mark Randolph,

the co-founder and first CEO of Netflix. He's a veteran Silicon Valley entrepreneur, advisor and investor. Mark was co-founder of Netflix, serving as their CEO as the executive producer of their website and as a member of their board of directors until his retirement from the company in 2003. Mark's career as an entrepreneur spans more than four decades. He's been a founder of half a dozen other successful startups, a mentor to early stage entrepreneurs, and an investor to numerous tech ventures. Most recently, Mark co-founded Analytics Software Company,

Look at Data Sciences. And his new book, which you'll be talking about today, is called That Will Never Work. I love the title, The Birth of Netflix, and the Amazing Life of An Idea. That will never work, Mark. Thank you for being here. Oh, it's a pleasure, Jay. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's awesome to have you here. And I love that title, by the way. I think it's brilliant. I can't think of the amount of times I've heard it.

I can't even remember the amount of times I've heard it. And who is the first person you ever heard it from? Well, I've been hearing it all my life for the most part because I've been one of those guys with these crazy ideas. Probably the most famous one is my wife, who you expect to be deeply supportive, but it happens to all of us. You come running down with a great idea, and what did everyone say? And she said, that will never work.

That'll never work. And then that'll never work. But and now of course, the joke between us, because I've learned that she's kind of a reverse indicator that if she doesn't like an idea, all right, I'm out of something. Right, right. That's interesting.

My wife is my mainstream test. Uh-huh. So if I'm thinking about something and wondering whether I think it's scalable or whether a lot of people will be interested into it, that's when I go and ask my wife. So we have the opposite effect. But actually, in a conference, you said that your number and rule in life was staying married. Why was that such a priority for you?

Well, you know, people tend to get this whole business thing and let it take them over. that your number and rule in life was staying married. Why was that such a priority for you? Well, you know, people tend to get this whole business thing and let it take them over, you know, they think, this is what's important that somehow, if I make so much money, I'll be happy. Or if only this, I'll be happy. Or only that, I'll be happy. And you've got to put these things to perspective.

The goal is balance. At least my goal is balance. So long, long time ago, I said, I know a lot of guys who were on their sixth startup and their sixth wife, and I don't want that to be me. So I mean, we're kind of jumping almost to the punch line of my life, which is like the thing that I'm most proud of in my life

is not starting this company with 150 million subscribers or any of the other things that have accomplished. It's that I did all that stuff and stayed married to the same woman that my kids know me and I think like me and I get a chance to pursue the other passions in my life at the same time. I absolutely love that. I think that's such an amazing message and I'm so glad that you're saying that that's the punch line and that's the real success. I think that's beautiful hearing for anyone who's an entrepreneur listening or anyone who's a businessperson listening.

For them to hear that is such incredible advice. So thank you for sharing that. My pleasure. Yeah, I think it's awesome. I want to dive in this interview is going to be really phenomenal because I think what you do so beautifully with your life like you just did is you have everything from business, mentorship, you have life mentorship, you're able to really think about and we were just, I was just getting mentorship on Disney World.

I'm going to Disney World this year and Mark was walking me through how to have the best experience at Disney World. So I love the breadth of your experience. One of the things I wanted to start with and this is because I've been fascinated by the story. I've read about a million times on the internet. I've seen so many versions, but I get to ask you about what happened with Blockbuster. And I know you've shared it before, but I love it because I would love to hear it from you because I've only ever read and heard about it. Well, certainly, but the first thing you've got to realize is that

people kind of have this vision that Netflix has always been the Netflix they know now. That it's in every country in the world, that it's streaming video, that it makes its own TV and radio, that it's a euphemism for getting laid. That stuff all came later. There was a time when if you wanted a movie from Netflix, we mailed it to you, and we were a DVD by mail business. And it's kind of weird how often I meet people, especially younger people who have no idea where Netflix started.

Totally. And actually, this, again, you got to stop me. I'll go on these words. Day before yesterday, Netflix announced that it shipped its 5 billionth DVD, announced that it shipped its 5 billionth DVD, which blows my mind. Anyway, going way back, our company idea sucked. I mean, we launched this thing and the idea was to do video rental by mail, and it didn't work. And it took us two and a half years to finally come up with a business model that actually made sense. And here's how blockbuster gets involved, is that when all of a sudden you figure something

out, things take off and it gets incredibly expensive and we didn't have the money. So I think that year we were on track to do about five million dollars in sales, which is not bad. But we were also on track to spend $50 million. And you know, you don't need to be a accountant to know that that is not very sustainable. So there's a term in business called, pursue strategic alternatives, which is code for, we gotta sell this sucker. Right. And fast.

And our strategic alternative was blockbuster. And blockbuster was in a totally different place. So we were on track for five million, they were gonna do six billion. We had about a hundred employees, they had 60,000 employees. They had 9,000 stores. So we were nothing. So we called these guys up and said, we tried to get a meeting, nothing, like crickets. So going out about our business.

And then as it happens, we were on this corporate retreat. And we are not far from here, where outside of Santa Barbara, at this dude ranch, called the Alicell Ranch. And I mean, I'm dressed up today. I shaved for you, Jay. That is my sign of sincere respect. I'm terrible now. If you only knew how infrequently that happens, you'd realize that's my genuine flexion. But so we're pretty casual in Silicon Valley, and so when you go on retreat, you got to work at it. And seriously, I had with me on this three day retreat was shorts. I had some t-shirts.

I was in flip-flop sandals, so that was it. And of course, that is when Blockbuster calls and says, we'll see you tomorrow in Dallas. We're gone. Fuck. How are you going to get from, how has all ranch to Dallas, but a more morning? And so we did that thing that prudent entrepreneurs do, which is when they're $50 million in debt, and we charted a private jet. Hey, it's Debbie Brown. And my podcast deeply well is a soft place to land on your wellness journey. I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental health around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey.

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When a relationship breaks down, I take copious notes and I want to share them with you. Anybody with two eyes and a brain knows that too much Alfredo sauce is just no good for you. But if you're going to eat it, they're not going to stop you. So he's going to continue to give you the Alfredo sauce and put it even on your grits if you don't stop him. Listen to the art spot on the iHeart Video app Apple Podcast or wherever you listen to

podcasts. And here's the, here's a, okay, now I'm going to share the little bit of Netflix trippy with you, which very few people know. The jet was owned by Vanna White. I don't know if you know who Vanna White was. She's the woman who spun the letters on a wheel of fortune. Oh, wow. So, yeah, who spun the letters on Wheel of Fortune. Oh, wow So did not know that yeah, and I'm going wow

Spitting letters pays pretty well, I guess so we're on Vanta White's jet. We all fly to Dallas. We go up into this building this huge building And we walk into this massive conference room and Blockbuster guys come in John and Tioco head Blockbuster, Ed Stead is CFO, and they're in their, you know, they're casual, but they're like Hollywood casual with the $3,000 loafer kind of casual. And I'm in flip flops and shorts and a t-shirt. And I remember I was kind of jealous because read Hastings, my business partner, was there and he had on a Hawaiian shirt, get buttons. Anyway, make the pitch. We're going to

we'll combine forces. You guys are on the stores. We will run the online business. We'll find another buzzword, synergies. We'll all live happily ever after. And they ask questions. And finally, they ask the big question, which is how much should we pay for you? What do you, what are you talking here? And we had talked about this in the plane, and we go, well, we're in the whole 50 million bucks. So Reed goes 50 million dollars. And nothing, nothing.

In fact, I'm looking over at John Antiocho and he's like struggling not to laugh. And we're going, oh, and so obviously the meeting with Downhill quickly. But it's a fun story, but the real revelation took place on the jet home. And we're all kind of sitting quietly, and I know our CFO was there, Bernie McCarthy, and I know he's sitting there going, all right, how am I gonna make the cash last longer? And Reed, he's not a dwell in the past guy. He's already off in the future

of what some other business problem. And I'm going like, oh, now what do we do? This was gonna be our way out. And finally, I go, okay, so I, you know, tink the glasses and go, gentlemen, one thing left. Now we have to kick their ass. So that was the moment when you go, that made my dad used to say, you know,

Mark, sometimes the only way out is through. Yes, yes. And this was that moment when you go that made my dad used to say, you know, Mark, sometimes the only way out is through. Yes. Yes. And this was that moment when we go, okay, if we're going to make this happen, we're not going to have to rely on this day as a smocking of blockbuster saving us. We're going to have to figure this shit out around. I love that. And with the other interactions with them as well for the same purpose, so that was the

only one. No, there was no future discussion of collaboration, but there was kind of this friendly rivalry between the two companies. And it's funny now, you occasionally read stories, the newspaper, about some grizzled veteran of the Vietnam War going back to Ho Chi Minh City and meeting up with us.

And so we still have like email and phone conversations with the guys that we were fighting with at Blockbuster telling war stories together. I love that. That's beautiful. That's awesome. Now tell me, like you've obviously entitled this book, The Amazing Life of An Idea. And I think today I hear this a lot, and I'm sure you hear it even more than I do. But everyone has an amazing idea. and everyone has a cool idea. But in your work, you talk a lot about how it's not just about the idea and the idea is actually a very small part of it. Tell us about that thought process and why it's such an important message.

Yeah, it's, it's, um, everyone has an idea. And a lot of ways it's just why I wrote the book is because, you know, it, there's this, my daughter graduated from college, you know, four years ago, and I was sitting in the audience and I'm, I'm just going waiting, waiting, and then I hear it, which is the fall your dreams bullshit. Everyone here is that stupid thing. Cause, but then no one ever tells you how, how do you follow your dreams? Because everyone has one.

I mean, it's not just a business idea. We've all got something that we want to make happen. But no one knows where to start. And what I try and tell people is your idea is nothing. Your idea is not going to be what happens. Your idea is your starting point. And it's called the amazing life of an idea because I'm trying to show people that the original idea we had, video rental by mail, was a terrible idea. But that wasn't the point. The point is that when Reed and I had this idea, video rental by mail, we didn't go home and go, great, let's try it by business plan.

And let's do a PowerPoint slide show. We said, can we really mail a DVD to someone? And so we just turned the frickin' car around, and then went down to Santa Cruz and bought a Patsy Klein music CD and mailed it to Reed's house. Because we realized, thinking about it was worthless. You have to start and try something and do something.

So the poor, why I rambled again. No, you're allowed to do it, right? Yeah, I think it's great. So I'm a headwork. But the point is that these ideas are fleeting, the idea, your idea, it's a bad one. I don't know why it's a bad one, and you don't know why it's a bad one.

But I guarantee, I've never never ever seen a successful company ever that's successful the way their original idea was. The people that are successful are the ones who take that idea and start and then they find out why it's a bad idea and then if they're clever they try something different based on what they learned and if they're clever they try something different and eventually you end up with a Netflix. something different based on what they learned. And if they're clever, they try something different. And eventually you end up with a Netflix. Yeah. Your mileage may vary.

Sure, sure, sure. But that process is the... The ability to pivot. Consistently, the ability to shift direction. But I find that so often, I think the thing that I see the most and I think what people struggle with the most is knowing when to pivot. Yes.

And when they're going in the right direction and how long is too long or how short is too short. And I'm're going in the right direction and how long is too long, how short is too short. And I'm sure you've seen this time and time again with all the companies you've mentored and advised. It's probably the question I get asked the most and unfortunately, it's also probably the hardest one for me. Where's they'd ask me one that I was easy? But it's really when do I know when to give up? Yes. And I think what happens is people fall in love with their idea. They get this idea and it's like a baby

and it can be the ugliest thing in the world. To them it's going, oh my God, it's beautiful and they project it forward. They're holding the baby, but they go, oh gosh, it's gonna be the smartest, it's gonna be the first kid to walk. He's going to walk way before his age group, and they can picture it in high school, hitting the game-winning home run, or graduating from college first.

But it's just a baby. And it could just as easily end up doing heroin behind the 7-11. You can't tell. You can't fall in love with the idea. What you have to do is fall in love with the problem. And the reason I say that is because the problem won't get old. And you'll never give up on the problem. Eventually, you'll figure something out. And occasionally, yes, you do run out of time or not of money, or you go, I have no more ways to solve this. But it's much more evident to you than knowing when to stop hammering on your idea.

Yeah, I love that emphasis. I think that's great. And I think about that so often, whenever you hear about entrepreneurs solving problems, and that being the root of where everything begins, and I think so often, we're like, well, what's my idea or what's my passion, or where do I want to start? And it's like, but then I don't know how this links to the real world. And the only way it links to the real world is if it's solving a real problem. And I think you're

so true that you can always go deeper into solving a problem and you can't get tired of it if the problem still exists. And I think it's about finding a problem that we really believe in. Yeah. Because I think that's part of the challenge too is we often find problems because they're cool or they're interesting or they're trending But they're not necessarily a problem that we're deeply committed to Not too long ago in the heart of the Amazon rain forest this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life I saw it and I saw oh well. This is a very unusual situation It was cacao the tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen.

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Listen to Hungary for history with Ivalongoria and Maitre Gomez Rejón as part of the Michael Tura podcast network available on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts So I'll play I'll play a little game with please. I'd love to and with the people who are listening So I'll tell a little game with you. Please, I'd love to. And with the people who are listening. So I'll tell a quick story. Because, and I'm going to tell you the story because there is a way to come up with ideas that are good ideas. Ooh, I like this. And it's a simple one. It's by training yourself to look for pain.

To, despite being an optimist, to train yourself to see the world as an imperfect place. And I don't mean solving these global problems, like don't try and cure malaria or look at something that you know really well, that you bump into every single day as you're, you're promoting your business or working with your own, with your family, okay? So the story is about this, this job I had 40 years ago, and I was a house painter. This is during my university years. And different world, obviously, no technology whatsoever.

And back then, when you would buy paint, it came in those cans. I remember my parents used to have paint on it. With a lid on it, not kind of stuff. And that was fine. And now, 40 years later, I go to paint and paint still comes in that stupid can. And it's lame. Because first of all, it requires a screwdriver to open it, right?

And then when you pour it, it all drips down the side of the pan, and it fills up the little limb, and you've got to stir it with a stick, and then you've got to paint, and you still paint all over you, and it's just the most disastrous experience. And then of course, when you've got to close the can, you hammer it, but a hammer on it, I mean, it's ridiculous. But what happens is if you're picturing as I'm talking this about painting,

and you're imagining painting, and you're going, yeah, that can sucks, some people go, that's stupid. Why don't they sell paint like in a milk jug, or even better like the kind that you put detergent in. The detergent comes in, where it sits in a counter with a little spout that it all pours out from, or why isn't there an aftermarket lid, or why isn't there a magnetic stir?

But people automatically begin filling in these blanks, and it's a story that happened to me, that it's an amazing thing, when people begin looking at the frustrations in their life, without even thinking about it, these ideas pop into their head. And it's coming back to focusing on the problem, because the problem will never get stale. And so much of what happened at Netflix

was just bumping into one problem after another. And as soon as you solve one, well, low and behold, there's a new one. Yes. And it's why being an entrepreneur is such an amazingly exciting business because it's perpetual. Yeah. And I just want to point out to everyone who's listening and watching right now, what

Mark said, that was really powerful because not only is Mark talking about finding the problem, which you may have heard before, you may be thinking about before, but something he specifically said, it was like trying to solve a problem that you know well. And I thought that was a really powerful point, because I think sometimes we can get lost in problems that we actually are very distant from and don't deeply understand and have no familiarity with. And I think we are better at coming up with solutions

for things we are very familiar with. Yeah, you started off by saying that, you know, you might have an idea, but you're not sure how it fits into real life, or how even the problem fits into real world. But you do, you figure those things out by actually starting to try and solve them. And they take you places. It is absolutely a follow where it goes.

It's a murder mystery. It's a, it's a crossword puzzle. It's a jigsaw puzzle. It's such an interesting process of seeing where this problem takes you. And then lo and behold, sometimes it goes into an area and you go, well, I'm solving a problem for seven people. And you go, okay, that's not viable. Fine.

But sometimes lo and behold, you stumble onto something that everybody wants. And that's luck, and that's okay too. But that's interesting. You've just sparked a thought in my head that I don't actually think of often and I don't hear often at least. And it's about how the number one thing needed to be a good entrepreneur and an idea creator

and someone who takes an idea into implementation and execution is wanting to continuously problem solve. And we don't actually hear about it like that often, that someone who's an entrepreneur needs to constantly be happy to move continuously problem solve. And we don't actually hear about it like that often, that someone who's an entrepreneur needs to constantly be happy to move from problem solving, problem solving to the next problem. And just keep going down that road. And I think one of the things is a lot of people, I mean, it's back when I was a lad, Jay. Not that long ago, there wasn't this thing. There was a thing called an entrepreneur, but there certainly wasn't something that you became and it was never something that you would go to school and get a degree in.

I mean, inconceivable. So in some ways, it's good because now not everyone who goes to a university thinks they have to be a banker or a lawyer or a doctor. They actually think, wow, I could actually be an entrepreneur. But the problem is a lot of them want to be it for the wrong reason. And they want to do it for the glorification, which is also a shocking thing to me, that they think it's the way to get rich or it's the way to be famous or you're going to be on Shark Tank or that is not what it's the way to be famous or you're going to be on Shark Tank or it's that is not what it's all about.

I mean, we're here in L.A. and it's like the people who move here from all over the world to be an actor or an actress because I think they're going to get rich and famous. Well, I hate to break it to you, but not going to happen or at least the odds are extremely far against it. But if you're in some city and you're going, I love performing. I love taking on characters. You're doing it for the right reason. But then it doesn't make a difference whether you're richer famous. You're still getting that enjoyment.

An entrepreneurship is the same. And again, long way back to where we started, it's because of that thrill of solving the problem. If that's the reason you're doing it's because of that thrill of solving the problem. If that's the reason you're doing it, you will never be unhappy in that job. Absolutely. And how do you see it? Like, I know a lot of people who say to me like, Jay, I'm just stuck with overthinking. I just procrastinate all day.

How have you pushed so many people to take their first step or to overcome the fear of getting started? Because I've heard you say before that, and I love love this by the way. If you have an idea, you learn more in an hour of doing it than in a year of studying it. And it's like, how do you get someone to just, how have you seen it? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. How have you pushed people in action? So there's two things. There's one thing that you say and you say, just fucking do it. Like, stop thinking, start doing. But that's very similar to the follow your dreams.

So I'll give you a longer explanation. Please. I mentioned before that people fall in love with their idea. But what happens when you fall in love with your idea is you naturally embellish. So you start with this idea and it's simple. And it could be done pretty easily, but you don't do that. You leave it in your head and you add something on and all of a sudden you've added, it's a house, but you've added on a wing. And now you

put a second story on and then you add on the tennis courts and you go, let's put in this beautiful driveway and let's put in the skateboard ramp and pretty, and you've gargoyles and turrets and you've got this castle in your head. Now then, when you go to price it out, you go, shit, this is gonna cost a lot of money and this is gonna be really, I'm not even sure it can build it like, it's too complicated and too big.

So the trick is not to build the castle in your mind but to take your immediate, your small idea and do it. And if your idea is, I want to build a castle, the cleverness is not what's my idea. The cleverness is how can I figure out a quick, simple and easy way to validate it. And I'll, I'm trying to think you're whether like dare trying to give you an analogy. Please for that. Go for it. It's a little dorky. Well, we'll give it a shot. If I see you, you're kind of eyes kind of glazing over. I'll kind of know that maybe I'm losing you. So years ago, I was working with a young entrepreneur in San Francisco. And he was at a party late one rainy, well, that's every night.

Late one rainy evening in San Francisco and what happened to him is something that happens to everybody at that situation, which is the party ran out of beer. And then they all been arguing about whose turn it was to go out and buy the beer. Find an open liquor store all that stuff. And he goes, idea, much more, because idea, pain. My phone knows where I am, my phone knows my taste, my phone can have a database of all the

open liquor stores that deliver, credit card, hit a button, beer shows up. Great idea. This is a bunch of years ago. Yeah. And back in the day, to test that idea, you would have had to actually build the app, establish relationships with all kinds of liquor stores, you'd have to do a marketing campaign. He didn't want any of that crap. He didn't want to spend the money, didn't want to have to code anything. So, he parsed apart the problem.

And he said, am I really wondering, does my phone know where I am? No, I know that. My worrying about, can I build a database of, no, I, liquor stores, I can do that. Well, people trust me with their credit card. I know that. What don't I know? What don't I know? What I don't know is does anyone care? Yes. And more importantly, if they order once, will they order again? What's the average order size? So now here, that's the setup. Here's the clever creative way of quickly, simply and easily testing it.

He goes, huh. And what he did is he printed up business cards that said, nothing more than need beer, call me. And then he went and stood outside these apartment buildings in San Francisco on Friday and Saturday nights. Whenever someone in the right demographic came along, he'd give them the card and say, hey, if you need beer, call me. And then he'd go back and he'd wait and they'd call and he'd get in his bike and he'd go to the liquor store and he'd buy the beer. He'd go to the apartment and he'd put on a Viking costume. Don't ask.

And then he'll be goes and delivers the beer. And he figured out how to test this idea, not by building the app, not by raising money, not by getting a co-founding engineer, but by printing out business cards. He collided his idea with reality. He did the equivalent of what Reed and I did. We mailed that first, musics, used music CD. He quickly and easily found out, is it a good idea? And it wasn't.

Yeah. Because everyone was drunk. The orders were small. They were all taking place at one o'clock in the morning. There was no repeat business. But he realized that with a business card. And more importantly, he had real people telling him what worked and what didn't work. And someone eventually said, you know, I have an office, someone office manager in the

day and we do these big beer parties. And I'm carrying cases up and down the stairs and then he goes, huh, maybe I'll pivot to doing, pivot to doing this. And that didn't work either. And then someone said, would you stock my fridge for me? And he pivoted to that and it worked. And he took this meandering path of an idea. And the idea that worked bore little resemblance to the one he had at the beginning.

It was another example of the amazing life and idea. It was the amazing example of, another example of looking for It was another example of the amazing life and idea. It was the amazing example of, but another example looking for pain, another example of how to test something quickly, simply and easily, and in many cases without even actually doing it. Absolutely, that's such a great answer by the way. I'm so glad you went on for that.

That journey, that was brilliant. And again, I'm learning so much just by this, this conversation is unbelievable so far. If you've been listening or watching right now, I really hope you're taking notes. Again, all of this conversation, you'll learn so much more by this this conversations unbelievable so far if you've been listening or watching right now I really hope you're taking notes again all of this conversation you'll learn so much more by reading the book That will never work which we're discussing right now by Mark Randolph So one of the things I love that you point out there which is which is so special I feel is Testing that which you don't know right like it wasn't about building a database because you know you can do that. I loved all those examples.

You know you can build a network of liquor stores that people have done that before, but it was testing the part that you don't know. And I think you're so right, that's so much we waste all our time and money and resources in building the website, building the app, building the platform, and not even testing the idea at its root core,

which actually doesn't cost any money. And that's what I love about your idea the most, that people always say, well, I need some investment or I need someone to get dead on. That is exactly it. I am now the master of collecting excuses. Every once got some reason I can't do it. And that's a great, I can't raise the money.

It's because you designed a castle, which takes too much money. Figure out a simple way to try it. I can't do it because I don't have a business degree. I don't have a computer science degree. I don't have a technical co-founder. And these are all examples for people starting tech ventures. Yes. But everyone with their idea has an excuse.

Yes. And what you have to begin recognizing is, is this a legitimate excuse or not? Am I just scared? Absolutely. And it's okay to be scared. Absolutely. It's the nature of, it's risk-taking is not doing something crazy, scary, dangerous. Risk-taking is starting down a path where you can't see around the corner.

You don't know what's next. And not being afraid to re-root along the way. That's the fun part of it. It's not just jumping off a cliff. Here's another mask to figure out cliffs. Let's go the opposite direction. Let's go up the cliff. So I do a lot of, I'm a climber,

an alpinist for most of my life. Yes. And in rock climbing, and now people climbing the gems, you maybe people might recognize this, that when it's easy, two things are in place. One is you can see all the way to the top, and the holds are big enough that you can not only climb up,

but if you don't like it, you can climb back down. So the next level of difficulty is, you can still see all the way to the top, see the whole ruse, but it's so hard now that you can climb up, but you can't climb back down. Right. Now, the real scary stuff is when you can't see all the way to the top and it's so hard that if you climb halfway up, you can't climb back down. But the other piece about rock climbing is that you can't always see all the way

to the top from the bottom. So, what you have to do is you go up the first four or five holds and oh now I think I can see the next four or five and you go up those and all of a sudden the root reveals itself to you. That is what taking an idea down a path is like. It requires that courage to start even though I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to get there. I mean, I'm going to gather you're going to a limb here. You're probably a reasonably adventurous im eater just because of the travel stuff that you do. So you go into a restaurant sometime and you see something on the menu and you go, I

have no idea what that is. But you order it. Yeah, to try it out. That's the argument. If you have that level of risk taking, you are fine. Because something comes, what the hell? If you don't like it, you don't eat it. Yeah, right. You know, but occasionally you get amazed. Yeah. And that's what's so wonderful about trying things. Yeah, that's beautiful. So well said. And where is, where on the journey is feedback useful?

And what feedback is useful? Because I think, because I think, you know, you've, you've talked about obviously a wife, you talk about this conversation, a blockbuster and of course countless more, but just, I think, I think a lot of a struggle with people's opinions and how people's opinions hold us back or focus back. And I'm not talking about the excuse kind of, I'm really focused on feedback and going, what type of feedback is useful? And how do you decipher whether that feedback is useful or not, whether that's from a potential investor or a customer or client or whatever it may be? None of it is useful.

Boy, that's too simple a way to say it. But what you're hearing is mostly right. Nothing is useful. There are a different way to say it, and especially pertinent since I'm down here in Hollywood, is nobody knows anything. Nobody knows anything, and that's the immortal worlds of William Goldman, famous Hollywood screenwriter, and ironically wrote 20 movies and won Academy Awards, but is known for those three words from his adventures in the screen trade book. But he meant that no one can tell

how well a movie's gonna do, which laughter it does it. It is absolutely true in any new venture. No one knows. And so anyone who tells you, well, I think this or I think that, they don't know what they're talking about. The only feedback that's valuable is the feedback

that comes from trying it and seeing how the real person you want to respond actually responds. That's the only thing that counts. Investors, no, they don't know. And they also don't necessarily have the same criteria in my success that you do. Your spouse, God bless them, they have to want the best for you, but they don't know either. You just can't tell. No one can tell a good idea from a bad idea. The only way to do it is to try it. I'm sorry, I know that. No, that's great.

I wish there was a shortcut. So I guess, I guess looking at it from a different perspective is like, when a mentor's useful, like you obviously mentor people and guide and how do you know a mentor is useful? That's a great question. What type of question should you be asking? And since I'm a mentor myself, I guess I don't want to dismiss all of my advice. But most of my advice is designed around helping people

get started. And when they're starting, how to keep them on the right path of continually getting customer feedback. And again, I don't want this to be too commercial because this advice is good for anybody who's trying to solve something. Whatever you think your problem is trying to solve. Even if it's a problem of your own, you want to collide that with the reality as soon as you can and that's the feedback. But yes, having a mentor who understands what you're up against

and has confidence in you and that you enjoy spending time with, that's the three critical things. Interesting. I mean, now I can't remember the very beginning of our conversation, but in many ways, I do a lot of work with early stage founders. So I'm a mentor or work with early stage founders. So I'm a mentor or you can call me a founder coach. But what's interesting is most of my job is marriage counseling.

Is that because the real challenges are those. Oh, that's what this came from. We were talking about the beginning about life balance. How do you do this at the same time? Oh, that's what this came from. We were talking about the beginning about life balance. How do you do this at the same time, keep yourself healthy and keep yourself sane and maintain your relationships and keep your hobbies alive? And so it's funny, people can be brilliant marketers or brilliant technologists and the thing they struggle with is that.

And at least in the tech world where I spend a lot of my time, the most stable configuration is two founders, a tech and a business. But it's one from Mars and one from Venus. And they're spending more time together than they would with their partners. And you realize that helping them keep that relationship healthy is critical and hard. They have to, it's a credibly lonely being a CEO because you can't necessarily reveal everything to your employees and you can't necessarily reveal everything to your board who is your boss. And so there's really no one who understands

that you can talk to. That's another role that a mentor plays. You're kind of gathering not just the role of a mentor plays, but how much of making a company successful is emotional and psychological, not technical and accounting. Yeah, I love that answer. Let's dive a bit into the marriage counseling because I know that my audience is so focused

on learning about relationships and I love learning about it too. And I'd love to hear from your perspectives and learn from you as well. What have you seen have been the kind of like the building blocks of making sure that a relationship with your spouse or your girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever it may be has been able to be maintained through the growth and momentum of a successful company? So one thing I've learned is I can't speak for humanity. I know what's worked for me. Yeah, I'd love to know what's done there. But again, I just want to make sure that, you know, that it's not a miracle. And I'm not a guru in this sort of thing. But what works for me is radical honesty. And what's interesting is that radical honesty

is the principle that I use with my wife. It's what I use with my kids, but it's what read Hastings and I use with each other. It's what I use with my employees. It's, there's life is way too short to bullshit people. And more than that, people are smart, and they can tell when they're being spun, and there's something incredibly powerful

about speaking from the heart. And honesty doesn't mean just delivering bad news. That means delivering good news. It means revealing your vulnerabilities. It means admitting I don't know something. It means saying you're right and I was wrong. I mean, it, but it's an incredibly powerful thing. And I can't, I can't recommend it enough.

Yeah, absolutely. But again, it's not easy. Yeah, and in terms of time and energy, do you feel that in the growth of a, stages of a company, it's, is it impossible? Is it like literally impossible to spend quality time with your partner? Or is there, is there any balance? Or, you know, what is the reality of it, I guess?

It's, it is difficult. I mean, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Having a startup, launching Netflix was like having a second family, a family who woke up in the middle of the night and cried, a family that required you to go away and take care of an emergency. And you also have your real family. And I had young kids who were waiting up in the middle of the night and crying, and we're requiring you to travel away in emergencies. So it pulls you in all directions. And it's almost like the big rocks model of time allocation. You've

got to pick the things that are critical and make sure you carve out the space to fit those in. And it Netflix in those first few years, even before then, my wife and I had this principle that every Tuesday, 5 p.m. sharp, I would leave the office. And she had a babysitter and we would have a date night. We just go downtown, we go for a walk, we've got a wine glissia movie, but we'd spend time together away from the kids away from the business. And it was really hard at first to preserve that time because the start up and everyone's always grabbing you. So in an emergency, emergency meeting before five, you can talk to you on the way to the car.

But the magic of it is that once you've defended it successfully for a month or two, everyone realizes it's futile to even ask. And more importantly, they all begin going like, well, nothing's gonna happen on Tuesdays after five. I can now take some time off on Tuesday after five. Absolutely. And it ends up giving them space.

But perhaps the most important thing is it models for everybody what the culture really is. It models what the priorities are. Absolutely. If the CEO of the company can do this with, I guess I can, I can too. And culture is not what you say. It's what you do.

So we can talk all we want about how we believe in family and balance, but then no one ever takes vacations and everyone is there until midnight every night. That's saying one thing and doing another, which besides not modeling the behavior, also says that you are an insincere liar. The probably the most important lesson that I've learned from 40 years of being an entrepreneur is,

and this is going to sound strange, but I am not that special. I've really come to realize that so much of what I've done are things that anybody could do, that these things which I try and beat into people are not rocket science, they're not things that take a great education, you don't even need to be that smart, it's an attitude, it's being willing to start, It's being willing to take a risk And those are things that anybody can do and I've just realized almost everyone I speak to they're smarter than I am They're hard working more hard working than I am

They're better prepared than I am And they just need to get going and if I can let people know and they just need to get going. And if I can let people know they can do this, then I will really have accomplished something in my life. That's beautiful Mark. And thank you so much for placing such a strong emphasis on life as opposed to his business, and as opposed to just investments and mentorship

and entrepreneurship, but really putting that emphasis on relationships and love and connection and service. So thank you so much for doing that. It's my pleasure. Yeah. And I think I love that about love and connection and service. So thank you so much for doing that. It's my pleasure. Yeah. And I think I love that about setting and preserving these rituals. That's kind of what it is. It's like, it's not, I think when we leave it open, like, oh, yeah,

we'll try and find some time this week to spend time together. You never do, right? It's almost like it needs to be the structure lets you be spontaneous. I feel like I feel like if you just leave it to spontaneity, then you'll never find any structure. But when you start with structure, you can spontaneous, I feel. Like, I feel like if you just leave it to spontaneity, then you'll never find any structure. But when you start with structure, you can find spontaneity. So maybe one day you went for a walk or you went for a dinner or you went for a movie.

And you could go whatever it was. But setting that structure is so helpful and useful. I really agree. And having rhythm to life. Yes, rhythm helps as well. I mean, I know that you have this nice rhythm set up. So you know, okay, one day I'm busy. Yes, but other days, you can type, grab time for other things. I mean, it's just a matter of figuring out how to make your life work with your work.

Yes, absolutely. Now, I love that. Great advice. And then, again, what you mentioned, the second partnership, which is usually this co-founder partnership, and you and Reed Hastings used to commute to work together. Yeah. And I tell us about that, because that's fascinating, is that pretty common in the startup world of co-founders? No. Comedic to work.

And it's cool, I love it. I think it's great. It is. I mean, and one little piece of it is that so much of a startup is luck. I mean, there's certainly a lot of things about the Netflix story, which were luck. The DVD player actually being widely adopted was luck. I mean, there's certainly a lot of things about the Netflix story, which were luck. The DVD player actually being widely adopted was luck. The fact that blockbusters

said, no, was luck. I mean, you can, you know, I'm here because I did a bunch of things right, but I also had a huge amount of things break my way. But one of the lucky breaks was that Reed Hastings company bought a company that I had helped start and that was luck. But then the real luck was that he ended up happening to quince, that I live in the same town as I did. And that we began carpooling back and forth. And so we became friends in this weird way that would probably not have happened organically.

And then the other lucky thing is this company that Reed was running that, what, my company, it was again acquired by someone else and we were both being fired. So there was another lucky break. So a lot of things conspired. All of a sudden have Reed and I together on a 40-minute, uh, to 40-hour commute. Um, knowing that in six months or so we'd both be out of jobs. And that began the process of saying, well, Reed was saying I'm going to go back to school, get my higher degree in education and change the world, and me saying I'm going to go start another company. And then him saying, I kind of want to keep my hands in this whole entrepreneurial thing. So how about this?

I will be your angel investor. And we decided to put an idea together. And then I would, you'd fund it, I would run it, and away we'd go. And that began these crazy car rides over the hill, as we call it, going over the mountains every day from Santa Cruz to Sunnyvale. Brain storming ideas, brain storming ideas about pain we had, about ideas we come up with. And going back to that amazing life of an idea,

most of the ideas we came up with were terrible. I mean, this is not like we're going, gosh, we've got to think of an idea about movies because they're both passionate about movies. We were throwing all kinds of crap at the wall. I mean, one of the things Netflix almost was, was personalized baseball bats, like made on a computer driven milling machine.

Yeah, right, right. Just to your exact specifications, Jay. Another was customized shampoo. Like you sent mail in a lockier hair, and we'd formulate it just for you. But I'd then go into my little office and research them all day, and then the drive back,

I would tell Reed what I learned, and little by little, went through hundreds of ideas. And even one of them was, let's do video rental. Let's try video rental by mail, because video rental big category, and I had previously in my career done a lot of mail order stuff and direct mail.

But stuff you knew, stuff I knew, then I'd seen the problems, both of us had seen the problems with video rental. Who had. But back then, video came on those VHS cassettes. Yes, I remember. Yeah. You're age, you probably watch Lion King

about 6,000 times. Yes, yes, yes, yes. On your VHS cassette. But it didn't work, like too heavy, too expensive, too fragile. And so that idea got abandoned, and then on to the next crazy idea. And that's where the DVD came in. Because on one of these rides, Reed mentioned that this new technology, DVD, and he goes, wow, what is it?

Like, what's this little disc, the size of a music CD? And we're going, huh, thin and light. It's cheap, yeah. Sheep, this might change some things, but then that's where it comes down to, don't think, act. So rather than this big debate about, who can we ask whether mailing a DVD is too fragile? And who can we, let's build a business plan

and let's imagine how we're going to build the website. We want to screw it. Let's just take the first step and see if you can actually mail one of these things to yourself, which is when we turn the car around and then drove back to Santa Cruz and went to logos, record and tape, use music store and bought a Plattspatsy Klein music CD and then two doors down to the stationary shop and bought the little pink gift envelope that you put a greeting card in. And CD and the envelope and address to Reed's house

in Santa Cruz and pop it in the slot and go to work. And then 24 hours later, Reed shows up, doesn't even say a word, just holds up the little CD unbroken that got to his house for 29 cents. And we might be some merit to this video by mail after all. Wow. So it's a, you see that in all the examples you're sharing with me, we know that the more we experiment, the more we fail, right? It's the more we experiment, the more you're going to fail,

because the more mistakes you're going to make, the more you're going to have to pivot, the more you're going to have to figure things out. How have you and read consistently gone through failure after failure after failure and how, when was there a time when you were failing where you just felt like this is not going to happen? Like this is not working. And how did you get through that one? Every failure is a learning. And people go, tell me your biggest failure.

And I feel like a fool because I sit there, I can't think because you were learning. But yeah, I don't frame it that way. What's your biggest lesson? There you go. I mean, I got a million of those. Yeah, what's your biggest lesson? So many of my ideas were terrible. Yeah. Um, biggest lesson. Okay. It's the power of focus.

And the courage of walking away from today in exchange for tomorrow. for tomorrow. And that sounds so simple and boy it's hard. And when we launched Netflix, it sold DVDs and it rented DVDs. And about two months in, we were crushing it. Million, how are $100,000 in that first month? All selling DVDs. And that was a disaster because we knew Amazon was gonna come in and that was not sustainable. And we did this for months and months and kept, couldn't get rental to work. And then finally realized that doing the sales

is not, is paying the bills, but ironically it's making it harder to get rental to work because it's confusing for customers. We're spending all of our time on sales and not focusing on rental. So there you come down to the realization, if you're going to do something, pick one thing and do everything you've got on it. But then comes the courage, which is what? Do you focus on the sales, which is paying paying the bills but it's eventually going to go out of business?

Or do you bet it all on this unproven Technology there's renting DVDs by the mail which was selling no signs so we in one day Pulled the plug. Wow walked away from selling DVDs entirely 99% of our revenue turned off like a light switch But it focused the mind on how to make really, 99% of our revenue turned off like a light switch. But it focused the mind on how to make rental work. And this scales large that everyone has this problem where they're doing something that's working, and they know that's not the future.

That's not what people want in the future, but they're scared to do it. And you can take it at a personal level. You really want to take a swing at doing this. But God, I have this job and I it's paying my rent and and you're trapped. And that is the most tragic thing I can imagine. People feeling trapped. And I'm not naive. I'm not saying, you know, walk away. Vlog, yeah. Just pull the plug, but start. Start dreaming about it. We'll leave you trapped even longer. You have to recognize it's really hard to do two things really, really well. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I agree with you. I think, you know, I've had mentors who've said to me before that, you know, when you're really in pain, that's when you'll find your potential

and that's when you'll be able to break through. And I always be like, oh yeah, that makes sense, but I'm proactive, that's not true. And then I realized that actually when you felt the plug was being pulled for you or you pulled the plug for yourself, that's when you've really dug deep. And you almost work harder

because now you can't come back to what you had the day before in terms of your example You're not coming back to oh yeah, we already know we make X amount of money through this right you've now made it Impossible for yourself to rely on something that doesn't have a future and now you've got to find something And it's in that point that you're more likely to find something but you don't have a choice Absolutely, and I think it's almost like giving yourself no choice whenever that's right for you And I think it's almost like giving yourself no choice whenever that's right for you personally

is a good way to go because I've found that when I've had no choice, that's often been the time when I've done my best work. Absolutely. And it is, it's a courage thing too. I mean, you can wait till desperation, but you can also say, I'm gonna just give it a shot. Do you know Ernest Shackleton is?

No, I don't, no. Ernest Shackleton, he's kind of my hero. Okay. He's a polar explorer. Okay. Andice Shackleton, he's kind of my hero. Okay. He's a polar explorer. Okay. And this is the turn of the last century. And he wanted to be the first person to travel by land over the Antarctic continent. So I will not tell this whole story.

It is the most unbelievable story though. But anyway, he has this boat. It's the unsinkable wooden boat. And he's sailing to drop off him in his expedition and they get stuck in the ice. And they go, no big deal. So they all pile off the, they will wait for the spring when it melts.

So they all pile off and they have camps on the ice. But of course, the ice crushes the boat and the boat sinks. So now they're all sitting on this ice flow. And it's pretty cushy. They've got to have dogsled races and they've got all kinds of food and they have wood from the boat for fires. And he's watching this ice flow as a spring comes, gets smaller and smaller. And he's going, well, I can sit here in my comfortable surroundings until all of a sudden we're all dropped in the ocean. Or I could take advantage of the fact that it's spring and there's open water,

and I can put my entire expedition in our three lifeboats and see what happens. And it thus begins one of the most unbelievable stories of adventure and leadership you could ever tell. But I've always thought about that. This guy who looked around and everyone's comfortable and said, we can't sit and be comfortable. That's what happened at Netflix.

What happens all over the place. I love that. Thank you so much. You're amazing. You're an incredible story, Tala. You're fascinating to talk to. I'm excited for everyone else to read this book. That will never work.

I genuinely believe that if you've got a big idea, you've got a small idea, you've got no idea. This book's gonna help you navigate the process of getting started and then navigate the process of actually making it happen. And I think those two are so distance, it feels sometimes, they feel so far away. But this book will definitely definitely get you closer Mark

We end every interview with a final five so I ask you a final five rapid five quick five questions You have to answer each question in one word to one sentence maximum if I allow you to go on then you can and I probably will because you're No, you don't so I hear hard questions the final five number one. What's your favorite slice of pizza? start easy oh I'm hard at questions. The final five, number one, what's your favorite slice of pizza? Start easy. Oh, plain cheese, man. Nice, again. Question number two, the best trail you've ever hiked, or your favorite hike of all time,

because I know you love it. It's the, oh crap, it's the one I want the coast of Italy, the Chiquitera. Okay, the Chinquatetta. Okay, wonderful. It's a small trail. It's a small trail, these five towns that are only accessible by fishing boat. It's really old towns, and they've built this network of trails that connects the five

towns that run right along the ocean. Amazing. Oh, spectacular. I love that. Okay, awesome. Question number three, one company you wish you started Oh My my life I hit a buzzer and pass

Yeah, I guess the way phrasing it is a problem you wish you would have solved I was there a problem that you tried to solve but then you've seen someone else actually solve it really well. If there is, if there is, and then you can pause, and I'll choose another one. What does it say about me that I can immediately jump to a one word answer about that? That's because of course there's hundreds of things where I go,

oh my god, that was so clever, I wish I had done that. Yeah, I can't that one. That's okay, that's cool. We'll substitute that for another one. So your question number three is, tell us about the Canada principle. Uh-huh. Yeah, one more than one sentence. Yeah, you can do one sentence Sometimes it seems that you can easily get a 10% lift for example as we could have by expanding to Canada But it's always harder than you think and that if you take that same 10% of time or effort or attention and

focus it on your core problem, you'll reap much bigger rewards. Another way of saying it, beware of low-hanging fruit because it rarely is. Nice, wonderful, great piece of advice. Awesome. Question number four, your favorite show to binge watch, or your favorite TV show? I've made it everyone else. We're, I have so much access to it. Almost done with sex education. Okay. Oh my god, that is hysterical and fantastic. That's sick.

Oh, awesome. Yeah, no, I was thinking one of the problems I'm just going off an tangent here. I think one of the problems that I was thinking about when you took my paint can, what I was thinking about was struggling to find what to watch it. Nah. That is literally the problem I think of all day long.

I mean, my wife could sit down and we could spend an hour trying to figure out what to watch. Especially when it's two of us. I can figure out what to watch when I'm on my own. It's two of us. And then you don't watch anything because it's too late. Why is that so hard? What, someone out, one of your listeners has to like,

totally go fix that. But here's another principle, which is that if something seems obvious, there's something you don't know. Right. So go on. Tell us more. That it's just that if it's something, what you have to do before you have this great idea

and you go, it seems like there should be an obvious solution, there's something you're missing. So what you've got to do is do the research and say, who has tried this? What is the unknown barrier that I just don't see? Otherwise, you end up just repeating the same mistake someone else has made before. Absolutely.

Absolutely. So someone out there, please go and solve this. Yes, please. And tell me about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. I tried to mark about it. By tomorrow, hopefully. I love it.

And the fifth and final question is, what is one habit you're most proud of breaking? Most proud of breaking. Yeah. Any habits that you've broken in your life that you think were good at? What? End tool, physical. Sure. A recent one is the cell phone addiction.

Okay. Tell us about that. No, you know, it's such an obvious one, but everyone is afflicted with it. Now it's almost like being a non-smoker, which I was never a smoker. But now you see people and you go, oh my god, what are you doing? The constant pulling it out this habitually. Yeah. And it's just taking me the sense of saying, leave it in your pocket.

Leave it. And I finally actually got into the point where now I no longer have that urge to grab for the phone at every time I have a spare moment. And it's partly this wonder, wonderfulness, this wonder of stopping and taking it in. I mean, it's a, it's a standing meditation when you're in line or when the plane lands and everyone goes in their phone. No, just look around. I mean, it's such a, it's a cool, it's a cool replacement. I'm really, really digging it. So, you know, I was, this was unfortunately not too long ago, but I was flying someplace and I was flying first class. And something was wrong. You know, I don't know, something with the seat or that didn't get my first choice of meal

or the little towel was too dry or something so stupid. And I remember complaining to my wife and I had this revelation, like you stupid bastard, how dare you? How could you possibly be complaining about something like that? And it was this moment where I realized I am so unbelievably lucky I have to appreciate everything about how unbelievably fortunate that I've been. But I've had this idea that actually turned into a real company that had the chance to spend time with my wife and my family and have all these things happen. I do not deserve anything else, especially not to be complaining about that.

So I think I take back my stupid answer about the cell phones. That is not the most important habit. The most important habit I broke was pity and recognizing how lucky I am. Thank you so much, Mark. Thank you for your final five. Thank you for being on on purpose. It's been awesome talking to you.

And everyone has been listening or watching back at home. You can get the book. That will never work. The birth of Netflix and the amazing life of an idea by Mark Randolph. I highly recommend going out and picking up the book and diving into the story of the place that's giving us all the stories that we consume. I mean, to figure out the fact that there are literally how many people in the world now, like 150 million subscribers in the world, all of us consuming off this platform to figure

out how it was actually birthed, what happened behind it, and really what happened behind the scenes. Go and check it out. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you have subscribed. If you haven't already, and please, please, please, go and follow Mark Randolph. Mark, where can they find you if they want to follow more of your work and hear your insights? They can find me at markrandolph.com or at a mb Randolph. Perfect. Awesome. Please, please, please go check out Mark and thank you so much for watching and make sure what I'd love for you to do with this episode.

Genuinely, there were so many moments where there were so many subtle points, tips and hints that I'd love for you to find those and share them on Instagram and Twitter as well. I love noticing what you're learning from these sessions and make sure you tag in me and Mark as well so that we can respond and see what you've taken away. Thank you so much for listening and watching Mark.

Thank you as well. Jay, what a pleasure. Thanks, Peter. Thank you so much. What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down an honorary to kidnap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, haven't comment. They're all real women who were left out of your history books. You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast.

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