On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Matthew McConaughey & Jay Shetty ON How To Turn Barriers Into Green Lights & Refuse To Let Challenges Defeat You

Episode Date: November 2, 2020

Jay Shetty is joined by Matthew McConaughey in this ON Purpose episode to share his wisdom on overcoming the challenges you face in life and turning them into green lights, or a way forward in life. Tune in to learn how reflection and recalibration helped McConaughey overcome multiple life challenges and led him to see the green lights in red-light situations. Learn how you can apply these same techniques to your life. Text Jay: 310-997-4177See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You can listen to How to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Regardless of the progress you've made in life, I believe we could all benefit from wisdom on handling common problems, making life seem more manageable, now more than ever. I'm Eric Zimmer, host of the One-Dee Feed Podcast, where I interview thought-provoking guests who offer practical wisdom that you can use to create the life you want. 25 years ago, I was homeless and addicted to heroin. I've made my way through addiction recovery, learned to navigate my clinical depression, and figured out how to build a fulfilling life.

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with world-renowned experts and yet I'm still striving to be better, joining me on this journey. Listen to the one you feed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, the book has that, the book has that moment as you, as you're reflecting or recaliburating on a lot of the themes that are there in the book. And I, I was thinking about that the other day that I feel, I was talking to someone about it. I was like, I feel that way about both laughter and tears. Like there, there are almost two things we try and hold back. Like we're like, oh, you can't cry about that,

or you can't laugh about that. And actually sometimes those are the two best things to do about most of those scenarios in life. And why not do it more and more? I know we're trying to raise our kids to say, hey, you know, I tell my story, and this is part of why I got into, went into, finally went to film school in college. I started keeping it diary because I would go to the theater

and it'd be a packed house. And I would laugh at the joke that nobody else in the theater laughed at. The whole theater would laugh at the joke that I was like, I didn't think that was funny. I was fine and I was not crying when people, someone close died. I was crying when someone was funny. I was fine and I was not crying when people, someone close died. I was crying when someone was born.

And I was going, is this okay? Am I weird in my office? And I was like, no, that was leaning to that. It's okay. And let's start writing these things down about how you feel about particular situations, Matthew. And started to write those down and then find some confidence to go,

that's okay. Talk to my parents, talk to friends about them. They were like, no, that's different, but that's, you know, keep writing down those unique sides of yourself. And that's a good point. We try to raise our, because hey, laugh cry whenever it's, come on. Let it out. Let it be part of the conversation. It goes along with people say, oh, don't, you know,

that old ad is don't talk to yourself. Yeah. What? No, do talk to yourself. Just remember to answer. Talk to yourself all you want. Just answer. I love that. Just answer.

That's true. We're pretty good. Yeah. Actually, that's half the challenge, right? All of these old rules or statements or whatever it may be. Kind of blocked that thinking. But what you were doing by writing it down, and I love that, and I love how much of the book

is literally looks like scribbles of your writing and your journals and your annotation, which I get fascinated by. But that was you, when you talk about the concept of knowing who you are is hard and eliminating who you're not first. It's when you start writing these things down that you start constructing who you are and deconstructing who you're not. Yes, that was it. And it was, look, I look at my early diaries. I was writing when I first started like 15, right before I started writing those things down like a you know, a theater of how my own personal response was the situation. When do most of us go to a diary? When we're having problems, dear diary,

so I'm so broke up with me, it broke my heart. The stuff I won't say to anybody else is just between me and you, hard times. Early 20s, I started to notice that when I would find my groove and get wrong on something and was successful and was waking up in the morning, looking forward to heading out into the day

and having good human interactions with people and was succeeding at schools. I was like, you hadn't written in your diary in a while. Just like, when do we pray? Usually when we're in trouble. All right, I've been dissecting my failures. I think I need to start writing stuff down and make sure I take the time to write stuff down when things are going well So I can dissect my successes in the hopes that when I get into another rut again in the future, which I will I can go back to my diary and go what more my habits back then when I felt like I was rolling Yeah, and you can find a bit of science to that satisfaction It can be who you're hanging out with where you were going how late you were staying up

What you were eating? Yeah, you know, I mean it can be who you're hanging out with, where you were going, how late you were staying up. What you were eating, you know what I mean? It can be all kinds of things. You can find a science too. I'm going to get back in that groove again and it can help nudge you back. It's never the same, but it can help get you back in your lane. So you know, this identity, who are you? It's a tough question to answer. What is easier and more fun is to go, all right, from not

sure who I am, let me answer who I'm not. What are those people places and things that are giving me a hangover or not feeding me back or not bringing out my true self? Well, you know what, I'm going to eliminate those from my life. I don't know where I'm going, but I'm getting rid of where I don't want to go be anymore. And by process of elimination, you end up with more things that will feed you and feed your good wolf right in front of you because you've eliminated the things that were feeding the bad wolf. Yeah, that's brilliant.

You've reminded me. I believe I came across it when I was looking at Christianity and I'd heard it. And it was a statement of like, you know, don't make God or the Bible your spare tire, make it your steering wheel, right? Like that kind of way of thinking about it. Like, you know, it's not just for a bad time. And I love what you're saying there, because you're spot on that.

We struggle to get into a groove again, because we forget what we did when things were good, because we never thought about it. And when you're going good, you think you're never gonna forget it, because you think, oh, this is it, this is the mean. This is how it will always be. I've trusted that Hill's coming.

Yeah, and we remember the bad times, more than the good times, because when something good is happening, we celebrate for a day, and when something bad's happening, we cry for a month, and we get so immersed in that pain, that you remember that pain,

you have a good memory for pain, but we don't necessarily have a memory for movement and joy and growth. Pleasure and success and those things. Yeah, and I know I have to watch this for me when things are going really well. I'm like, aha, this as I said, this is the mean. This is as it should be, and you can just sustain this. And if it goes below this, that's a debit. But it should always be this way. And it's just not fair to ourselves or anyone else because either we're gonna create our own crisis for ourselves or the world's gonna give us one

that we didn't ask for. And we're gonna have to adapt to something and be beneath that mean again. And it's good to have a little map if you can. Of wait, where was I? Where's my head? Where's my heart? How lined were they in the decisions and choices I was making when I felt like life was

one big green light? And you can go back and you can see that you can engineer them by our habits. Yeah, it's like, I mean, using your beautiful metaphor. It's like remembering a root or a path to somewhere. Like when you knew you found that really cool path up that really beautiful road and it was quicker and faster. And if you never wrote it down, you just forget it. But tell us, you said like we all have three choices. You were like persist, pivot or concede. How have you, how have you decided in your life when to persist, when to pivot and when to concede? Because and tell us share some examples for those that you think would help

people understand. Let's bring up a situation. And if you can think of one, shoot at that, we can deconstruct these three on that. Yeah. Well, maybe growing up to become a lawyer. You thought you wanted to become a lawyer, that maybe you want.

Yeah, so I thought I wouldn't become a lawyer. That was the in-house in-family credo. That was it. I was a great debater. I would win arguments. I was tire great debater. I would win arguments. I was tireless in them. I was in school debate in high school. This is it.

Family business and going well, shoot the joke. Was you go become there? You'll defend the family's business, Matt, you go ahead. Great. I'm heading off. Great idea. I go to university texts, head towards law school. Well, the first two years in school, what are you taking?

You're taking liberal arts, filling out some credits. After that sophomore year, you have a better start knowing where you want to go because those credits, they have to fulfill the direction you're heading. If you switch your major's junior senior, you can lose credits. Well, I was not sleeping well with the idea that I got to finish school here. Then I got to go to law school. Then I got to try a good job. Then if I'm practicing, I'm really not making a mark or experiencing

anything until I'm in my 30s. And I said, I really don't, I'm not excited about the idea of spending my 30s getting educated in a classroom about something before I can actually practically experience it. So I had been writing, as you know, and I started sharing those writings with a friend of mine who was at NYU Film School's name is Rob Bender. He said the writings were good.

He also said, you know what, you got great character and confidence you should think about in front of the camera too. Well that part I kind of was too, didn't have the courage to even embrace the idea of being in front of the camera. It was too avant-garde. I came from a blue collar, worked your way up. You had to be an actor. I mean, that's like, that's some European, you know,

or whatever, you know, so, what is that? That'll never fly. But I could grasp the idea that I'll go, I want to go be a storyteller behind the camera. Now I got to call dad, mom, who are paying my schooling for this. I got to pivot, all right. Now I could have kept my head down and just gone,

no, this is just a pipe dream you got right now. Lawyer of work, just follow it through. You'll be a damn good lawyer, which I believe I would have been. I could have persisted, but I said, no, I got to pivot here. Now, how do I pivot here? I got to get the approval of mom and dad, especially dad, and I don't think this is going to go over well with him, so let me make a plan, how to re-approach this situation. Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, full in love, make mistakes, and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade?

I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships, and much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences, incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science, and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life. Join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about, from the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our 20s. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me,

Gemma Speg, now streaming on the IHOT Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on IHOT. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities.

Like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Concert your New Year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast Podcast in each bite-sized daily episode. Time management and productivity expert Laura Vandercam teaches you how to make

the most of your time, both at work and at home. These are the practical suggestions you need to get more done with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our bodies strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to before breakfast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm going to call him Tuesday night, 730. he'll be home from work, he'll have had dinner, he'll be having a beer on the couch with mom, he'll be in a great mood, he'll be able to digest this, this question better. I call him up and I said pop I said he goes, I go, but I said dad I don't want to go to law school more, I want to go to film school. I hear this pause five seconds. I want to go to film school. I hear this pause five seconds.

Then I hear this voice, I'll sign you share that. What you want to do? I said, yes, sir, another pause for five seconds. And then I heard three words that were a launch pad for me coming from my bad at that time. Couldn't have said anything better. And I did not expect this. Three words were, oh, don't have said anything better, and I did not expect this. Three words were, huh? Don't have acid. Oh, thank you. Not only did you approve, you shot me out of a shotgun and said,

this is more than privilege, you got your freedom here and you better do a damn good job at it. Whoa, it was freedom and I was off. I went to film school. We've got confidence in telling stories, started working in front of the camera and here I sit, whatever, 20, 30 years later. So I made a pivot at that time because the idea of continuing on to go down the path and being in a lawyer just, I wasn't sleeping well.

It's always a good way for me to explain to him, how you sleeping with it. What's waking you up at night? The idea of doing it or the idea of losing it or missing it wasn't, I wasn't sleeping well. It's always a good way for me to explain to them, how you sleeping with it. What's waking you up at night? The idea of doing it or the idea of losing it or missing it. It's a good way to measure kind of choices we got it we want to make in life. Well, you know, I do it with scripts all the time or I really want to do this.

Well, let me sleep with the fact that I am going to do it for two weeks. And I'm going to see what wakes me up at night. And I'm waking up because I'm going, oh man, I'm not sure if I trust that director of that script. Now I'm gonna sleep with the fact that I'm not doing this. Now what keeps me up at night? Waking up going, no, I've got to do that project.

I can't go without it. It's a good measuring stick for going, well I think I'm gonna do it. You know what I mean? So what, I wasn't sleeping well with the idea of being a lawyer. It would have, things would have worked out in another way and probably okay if I would have done that. But my soul was itching and I was uncomfortable and I made a pivot at that time.

Yeah. That's, that's a great one. Everyone is listening and watching right now. I literally want you to write these two things down because these are practical things that you can do and I know that my community loves stuff that they can actually do. The first one here was write down your wins, write down those grooves, write down when things are going in the right direction, the green lights, and what's going right,

and how you're doing it, who you're around, what's happening. And the second one here, I love this piece of advice. Like sleep with it as if you are going to do it, right? Or sleep with it as if you're not going to do it. Like both of those are great, yeah, great ways of testing, which one you woke up feeling more excited about or nervous about or anxious about and what part of it. Like that's such a, I love that. Like that's so practical. I've never, I've never thought about it like that. And

I think I'm gonna, I'm gonna play with that one too. It's a cool decision-making paradigm. If you can give yourself enough time to really commit your mind like, I'm doing this and you will start to realize to realize well what does that mean for the next six months of my life the next year what am I going to miss out on or or or or are you are you thinking about everything you're going to do with that and it's more of a reason it's waking up at night because you just can't wait to get up and work on it that's another thing saying yeah you probably I'll do it there's there's good scared and there's bad scared. You know? Yes, nice going any situation and be scared,

but let your spider sense stay away. Am I scared? Because this is a great challenge, and I'm not sure what I'm gonna do, but I've got the curse to dive in. Or am I scared? Because the pedigree around it isn't maybe up to the excellence that I want.

And that's another kind of scared. You're like, I need to listen to that. Maybe that's a reason not to do it. Yes, yes, yeah. I love that distinction between the two. And that links nicely to one of the other quotes that stuck out to me in the book, where you were like, you know, when you can,

ask yourself if you want to before you do. And I thought I was like, yeah, that's real right there, because there's a lot of things. And actually it's one of the biggest things I hear a lot of is, I'm always encouraging people to move towards their purpose and things that fulfilled them and moving in that direction and pivoting as you did. And a big part of that question is, but I can do so many things. Right? And that's a common thing where people are like,

oh, but I could do this, I could do that, I could do this. But you have this really distinction. Ask yourself if you want to, what does that and why that was such an important one to write down and push out? Well, it worked its way into a nice little limeric riddle as it laid out. And it's got, you know, there's different ways

to look at the line. Look, too many options can make tyrants of all of us. You know, the devil's in the yeses more than the nose. I've been there where let's say me after I got famous in the time to kill. My life did a 180. The Friday before the time to kill came out, there were a hundred scripts I wanted to do and were to John anything to do. But 99 were no, you cannot do them. And one of them was yes. Well, over one weekend, I got a movie that does well, time to kill that Monday. Out of those hundred scripts, all of a sudden it was 99 or yes, there yours go for it, please, there are green lights, please do them. One of

them is no. And I'm going, oh, wait a minute. And a matter of 72 hours, I three days ago would have done any of this and couldn't do any. And now you tell me I can do all of them. Well, I, all of them look great. I mean, you asked me to be discerning right now and to ask inside my soul when my head is just spinning, going, wait a minute, two days ago, what have done any of these?

How do I know what I want to do? I want to do all of them. But wait, Matthew's only 24 hours a day. I know, but I need 90 hours a day. Anybody giving that? Nope, they're not giving that. Still 24 hours a day. Oh, what I got to do?

Well, for me, I had to get the hell out of Dodge, get out of Hollywood and go hear myself think, let my memories catch up, let my brain get reconnected to my heart and soul and get an myself think, let my memories catch up, let my brain get reconnected to my heart and soul and get an auto bond in there because at the moment, at that time, there was a one lane gravel road and it was bumpy driving, you know, between the old head and the heart. So I took off and had to go listen to, try to listen myself and get some just, you know, some sort of demarcations between all this frequency of options

that were now on top of me. I don't know if that answers your question. It does, it does. I was gonna follow it up with, what's the hardest know you think you've ever had to say? Like what was like the one which you were like, this was like, this challenged me where I wanted to say, like, what was like the one which you were like, this was like, this challenged me where I wanted to say yes, but, but I had to follow my own advice and say no. Well, the hardest no for me, and I'll base this on career.

Yeah. Well, it was about 14 years ago, and the stories in the book of when I was romcom king. Yeah, okay, yeah. They were fun. They were easy. I love doing them. I was getting paid big bank for doing them. We missed them. My wife does for sure. You know, I mean, maybe I still got another good one in the, in the, in the out there. They were making money for the studios. I was the go to rom com guy. And like I said, they were Saturday characters. They were easy.

There was nothing wrong with that. But I was feeling very vital in my life. I just had a newborn son. I'd met the woman that I'm now married to. And I loved harder. I was could get angry or harder. I laughed louder. I my life was like vital. And I was like, boy, my life's so much more vital than my work. I wish I could find some characters that would challenge the vitality of my own life, the man I am, the man I am in life, I'm living.

So I want dramas, I was looking for these dramas, where those dramas weren't coming. So this goes back to process of elimination. If I can't get what it is I want to do, I'm going to stop doing what it is I've been doing that's not feeling me up. Right. So, I made a staunch stance and said, I'm not going to do the wrong comms anymore, I'm not doing the action adventures.

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Well guess what? If you're not going to do those, I'm kind of, you may not be working for a while. And that was true. For 20 months, I didn't work. It's a long time. For 15 of those 20 months, I got offered zero, not a zilch. I was gone. I thought Hollywood would make it forgot about me. So that was a big no. The hardest no because I'm sitting there. This time getting offered $15 million dollars offers for well-written, cool, romantic

comedies. I'm like, pretty damn good. And by the way, it's even better, the version of $15 million dollars is a better script than the one that was offered to pay me in dollars, even though they were the same words. And I was like, well, you know, so, I looked at those things, but I said, no, I made this choice with myself. I made this choice with God.

I made this choice with my wife, Camilla. My family knows about it. I really need to go through this dry period. I don't know how long it's gonna last. I've got to hang on to the belief. But if it's to be something will come up, the work I want to find will come up and find me. And sheers heck, 20 months into it.

All of a sudden, I was a new good idea. So I had an unbranding two-year phase. I didn't rebrand. I unbranded. I was gone. I wasn't in the rom coms. You didn't see me on the beach without a shirt. Where's McConaughey? I don't know. He's forgotten. Forget it. Don't even see him on the script because he's not going to do it. It's

rom com. All of a sudden, son's going, you know, it'll be good for killer Joe, magic mic, mud, true detected, downstairs, but McConaughey, be a good idea. It's kind of an interesting, I had to novel idea now. It wasn't novel two years before. So that was a big time where I dug my heels in and said no. That's eliminated what it was I was doing to then find and be found and offered what it is I wanted to do and who I wanted to become. That's a great connection to that answer.

Like I wasn't thinking of that when I said that. That's a great connection to that answer. Like I wasn't thinking of that when I said that. That's a great connection to that because almost unbranding or unlearning or almost like you said disappearing is the hardest way of refining your identity because you don't know what the next step is. So there's a leap in that darkness. There's that. You're you're you're consciously and deliberately and intentionally throwing yourself into limbo.

Yeah. Which is the worst thing. We're all in a certain limbo right now. It's the most uncomfortable part. It's part of the reason our country is divided so wide right now because people need purpose, identity, and something to cling on to. So they're clinging onto the fringes just to have a sense of, okay, at least I'm about something. I don't know if I agree with it's about,

but at least I'm about something. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you're throwing yourself into a limbo, and then look, I had help. I had a great wife next to me helping me out. I had a newborn son, which was my North Star compass every day.

Every time I get antsy, what am I doing? I have no significance in my life. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I was like, well, look at your family. Look at that young man right there that you were part of creating and that you can raise as a father. It's a brand new day for him every single day.

Let's try and see what he's seen or put things in front of him that are gonna make him go, ah, I like this next day. So that was, that gave me an anchor during that time when I was getting what I was had some times of being quite wobbly. Yeah, no, that's beautiful, man.

I think that that is a great lesson for all of us. And it's so funny that when I was reading your book and literally in the last couple of weeks, I've been talking to my team because I've been coming off, like I was saying to you earlier, my book space. And I was looking at 2021 and I was kind of having this moment where I was like, and it's literally timed when I was reading your book,

I was like, I need to start saying no next year. Like that's my next challenge. Like my challenge next year is to go deeper in what I've committed to and do it better and go into just immersing myself into it rather than trying to do all these things. At one point in my life, it was really important that I was trying to do a lot of things. And now...

Probably being offered to do things you've never been able to offer to do before. Totally. And it's like... Yeah, please, thank you. I'd love to. Yeah. And I'm literally in that phase of my life right now, in this phase of it, where I'm like,

okay, well, actually, I need to stop that. So it just came so perfectly timed, and it was so interesting I was saying to somebody the other day, I was like, there's all these opportunities, but it's not gonna work if I just keep chasing them. And I loved how you brought that back to relationships, because this part of it, I think, and the relationship

you have with your kids, your wife is beautiful, but it's like, it's really interesting the way you explain it. The arrow doesn't seek the target, the target draws the arrow. And you said that you weren't even in a space where you were seeking partnership. You weren't even looking for it. And I think this is, you know, when you just said that, like, even though I didn't know what was next and I unbranded myself, but I had my son and I could look at what I've created, I think for a lot of people,

they're struggling because even their relationship world is in limbo, whether they don't have the right partner or they don't have a partner and, you know, their work life's kind of going, but they don't have that. Where was it for you where you felt you attracted your wife, where did that come from? So, we all have our biological clock, an idea when we're younger, when do we see ourselves? I don't have a meeting that woman or that man, and then having a family,

and those years come up on us. I'd never really been a time clock keeper, but subconsciously, I was at a time in my life where I was sure as heck didn't want to date anybody unless I thought it had possibilities of becoming a full true long term relationship. I didn't want to waste my time dating someone unless that potential was there.

If there wasn't time for us to move on and we had some Amy Bull break up with some wonderful women that we just both saw, hey, this is not going to, we both want to find the one that we have more potential. We've gotten to a point as far as I think we can go so, you know, um But I did find myself Looking I found myself in the produce section at the store Looking down wonder if you're gonna ring their finger. I wanted to maybe I'll say hi to her I was I was looking you know at the red light at, at the club or a bar or a friend would introduce.

And what I did in my own thoughts and meditation and prayers on what came to me was, it's okay. Matthew, don't try so hard to find the right woman to start a family. I know everything you've always, the one thing you've only known you've ever wanted to be was a father, but you don't try so hard to find the right woman to get married.

You might end up an 80-year-old, 80-year-old bachelor with a bunch of kids, and I'm not gonna judge you on that, but quit trying to make it happen. And soon as I quit trying to make it happen, and when I was out and not sort of measuring women, like maybe is it possible, maybe not objectifying, like,

well, I don't know, I was more present, I was more fun, I was more me. And soon as I quit looking, that's when she came. Not the same way I did, but when she showed up and I saw her now, my now, I've been moving across the room, right to left in my eye line. And I remember I saw this woman and under my breath to myself

I said, what is that? And say, who is it? I said, what is that? I got up, introduced myself, spoke the best Spanish I've ever spoken. I never spoke like I had a Spanish sense. And since that night I met her. There's never been another woman I wanted to go on a date with, it's been a night with Anything and she's now mother of three of our children and and we've been married now for

what are we coming on? eight nine years and That's when I was able to find her that's when I was able enough it goes back to let it one of those earlier lessons with my father Moving on be less impressed more involved. Yes. Yes, that's when I was I was comfortable enough, it goes back to one of those earlier lessons with my father moving on, be less impressed, more involved. Yes. That's when I was comfortable to be myself and give her her space because I wasn't trying to die sick. Wait, are you the one?

I wasn't measuring her. I was able to be myself, hold my own constitution. She was able to be herself and we naturally came together. So it drew the the target drew the arrow when I quit looking. I then that's when I found the one for me. I have to ask, do you dream a lot? Matthew, do you remember your dreams a lot when you dream? I remember ones like that. I do dream a lot. And like most people, most dreams, I forget most of them. But I have had a few that are consistent, that have been recurring dreams. And when I have a recurring dream that is note for note, shot for shot, exactly the same

dream, I take that as a sign celestial suggestion at least that my subconscious is trying to tell me something or my God is trying to tell me something. And I try to back up and go, okay, I need to listen to this. And you can't go to someone else for advice about it because it's only your dream. And it was a dream. So you have to really go, how much merit do I give this? And you were talking about it earlier. The truth is sometimes we don't,

we miss the green lights around. Yes. They're there. Are we in a place to receive them? Are we in a place to be patient enough to make them personal and see why they came to us? Then are we courageous enough to act on them and preserve them and make them part of our daily habits

and inner being. They come around all the time. And as you know, you can't listen to every sign. Are you running circles? You know, I've done that before. You know, you're seeing art everywhere. Oh my gosh, I got that quote in there about a manful of ideas needs to be, these some starvation.

A manful of truth needs to be fed. Well, I've had those times when I'm full of so many ideas. I'm inspired everywhere and I'm going, I got to cut some of this out because there's too much inspiration. I can't focus. There's a shotgun spread and I need a little rifle here. And at the same time, you don't want to be so closed up

that you're missing them or you let them pass and you don't give them credit when they come. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You want to have your dreams obviously, not a dream while you were asleep was to become a father. Like that's always been a big thing for you. What was it that you dreamed of about being a father that you looked forward to so much? And how

is it being un like how has that been completely surpassed in reality? Yeah. So because I'm not a father yet. So I'm not yet. Not yet. Yeah. So I remember when I was eight years old, this having this romantic realization that the reason my dad wanted me to call the men that he would introduce to do sir and shake their hand and look them in the eye, which I was looking up at their eye as a young eight year old boy, it came to me that what's the one consistency in all these men that I am giving them the respect of yes sir? Why am I calling sir? Because their fathers and I remember eight you're told going oh, that's it That's when you've made it that success as a male on earth to become a father. So to me, that was like, ta-da, one day, then you've made it, Matt.

That was always very clear to me since I was eight years old. And the one thing I always knew I wanted to be. Now I have children. You have the first, if and when you do have. I write about in the book, the first six months after you have your first born, don't double down, triple down on any instinct you have. Man is never more masculine and clear. The man's heart and head and spirit are never more lined than the right after he has a firstborn.

Triple down on any instinct you got. Career-wise, relationship-wise, everything. You're in the zone. Good to know. And so then you have them, the thing that, one of the surprising things, and all parents, I think know this, is that before having children, I thought it was more about environment than it was DNA. You have children, and you realize we were like, no, more about biology than I thought.

They kind of are who they are. I can nudge them and shepherd them and move them their way and put them in front of what turns them on and try to keep them from from dangerous harm, but they are who they are. The best thing that I didn't notice about having children before I had children is that now I'm immortal. Immortal. Hopefully they have kids and that's the lineage. So now, whatever perceivables shadow we leave when we're gone, that's my, that's the shadow. I wanna leave, that's the shadow that will keep me alive forever, that's to just keep living shadow right there.

You become immortal when you become a father or a parent, a mother becomes immortal. That's great, too. That's great advice, that's beautiful. What's the skill or what's the skill or quality that you think you're most wanting to see them develop or vice versa? What's something that you think they've taught you about yourself that you didn't expect? I come in on our trying, hoping to raise them, whatever they individually, known individual ways, to be conscientious, autonomous, and confident people.

We value family. We also value self-reliant. I wanna, you know, and you'll see if when you become a parent, you have to measure. Kids aren't afraid to fall off out of a tree until they fall. So, how high on that limb do you let them go before telling them, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

come down down. Because for the first time when you do that, they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, come down down. Yeah. Because for the first time when you do that, they're like, what? What's the big analysis and they get nervous? Yeah. So you measure in life and it's a metaphor to treat them, but you measure, well, I'm not going to be cool because if they fall from that one,

they may just scrape their arm and bruise themselves and that'll be worth it. I don't want to ruin the innocence and purity that they have. But then all of a sudden they get up to them, tall enough, you're like, dude, if they feel from the mat, that's where we're going to hospital. I think I may need to tell them to come on down. But for the first time, you're going to make them conscious. Yeah. You're going to have to put on the fig

leaf. You know what I mean? Um, so to measure that and let them negotiate situations on themselves for themselves, let them the three of don't interrupt every time, the three of them arguing, or they're arguing with their friends, let them negotiate. That's real life. They're gonna get out. The world's not just gonna lay out a carpet for them.

In my life, we're the fluent family. I wanna give my children a lot of them to own up to where the affluence that we have, but damn sure not rely on it. Yeah. And then also, how do we define success? It's a very interesting thing. Look up the earliest web-sertictionary version of success

to today's version of success. Today is about it. It mentions fame and money and all these things. And the original version talks about integrity. So what is success? What do they want to be relevant for? They're all three very kind children. Some one of them's more conscientious than the other two.

One of them's the comedic relief in the family, but smart as well. The other one is very creative, but Dogon doesn't know where she put her glasses in their honor phase. The other one when you're looking for your glasses, she reminds you, he reminds you they're on your face. You know what I mean?

So there are different, there are some of them are very practical times, some of them are very whimsical, they're all very, very kind. And I hope they're conscientious, autonomous and confident with who they are, and have the ability to, you know, we still say, we never, we never say don't talk to strangers. No, we travel the world and we're like, yes,

go introduce yourself, go ask them. No, no, no, I'm not going to do it for you. I'll be over watching, engage the world to good place. There's evil in it. We have to, but I don't want to, don't want to get you gun shy about the harms in the world before, you know, you realize some of them yourself and let them engage in somewhere they may have the bruise or the scrape. I don't want to engage in the ones that send them to the hospital, but you engage in the ones that you come away going, oh, that didn't feel like what at the, as I said, don't, now you know, you know, so selfish, you know,

well, that's another thing. I can get into what I feel about that word selfish and unpack that because I'm a fan of that word because the most selfish is actually being the most selfless people, you know, look at what we're in now and all the change we're going through. I don't know how to make systemic change. I don't know how to write policy. But each one of us know how to look ourselves in the mirror and say, how can I do a little bit better? Yeah. How can I value values a little bit more for myself?

And if I do that, you do that. And another person listening does that. Well, all of a sudden, we start forming a collective. And that collective will be better. It will be a more valuable society. So what is that spot where the choice I call that you could typically utilitarian? Where's that spot where the choices we make for us?

Yes, I'm doing this for me. My ego wants to do this. Where does that eye meet the we? Yes. Where does the want meet the need and the need meet the want? Where do we look as good as we feel? I'm feel as good as we look. You know what I mean?

Where do those overlap? And that seems to me to be the honeyhole. Yeah. I'm trying to unpack and continually chase. Knowing, I'm never gonna get there. But I think that's what it's about. Tari, chasing yet. That's what our lives are about. That's what America's about.

You know, it's an aspiration. And if we have the will and the want to go, you know what? I want to incrementally, I incrementally believe life is going to have an evolutionary small ascension. But things can improve just a little bit. Or what the hell are we growing older for? What's experience for? Or not going, you know, if there's not at least a little bit. Or what the hell are we growing older for? What's experience for? For not going, you know, if there's not

at least a little ascension, and keep chasing that, stay in the race, commit to the chase of that. And that is as close to the destination as a kid, you know? Again, maybe it'll be realized two generations later. You know? Yeah, there's a few things in there. There's a Sanskrit word called Dharma, which has lots of translations,

but one of them is purpose. And purpose is seen as the meshing of passion and compassion. And so what you were saying there of that understanding of that ego-tisted, utilitarian of like, where is it that I feel like I'm winning and we're winning, like, and it's, and it's having an impact, like, because you're not going to find it in either or, like, if you get obsessed with just your ego-tistical

pursuits, we all know where that goes. And if you just get obsessed with trying to make a difference and trying to serve, but you don't feel like you're playing your part in a way that fulfills you. It's, you know, it's unsustainable too. And the point you were saying about, yeah, the point you were saying about children. Crossley. Yeah. The point you were saying about children too, I found that really interesting because something I always kind of wonder about before I have kids is like fragility.

And like, what is my fragility barrier or limit for my kids? because what you're saying, there is like, we reflect our fragilities and insecurities onto them. And I remember I had a couple of friends who I remember they, their daughter probably I don't know, like two years old was like on the other side of the room and there were candles then she was just playing with the candles, like a hands were over the fire. And my, and I don't have kids, but my instinct to a response was like, guys, she's gonna burn us all.

And we need to go save her. And they were like, no, nope, like that was their limit. Like they were like, nope, let her play with the fire. It's only a tiny candle. If she hurts herself, she'll know. She'll, and I was like, wow, like,

you know, I'm not recommending that. I'm just saying. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, she'll go out, she'll remove her hand from the fire before she's actually really burned. And she'll know from that on that that glowing thing is hot. And you want, you know, we'll do it again. Usually we'll do it again.

And you know, we don't, we can be told what to do, we can be taught what to do. We can give us advice, but really, we don't like to be told what to do. No, nobody does. Kids don't even like to be told what to do we can be taught what you can give us advice, but really we don't like to be told what to do No, nobody kids don't even like to be told what to do. No one does you go experience something And you have a parent you have friends that let you go give it a shot. Maybe you can pull it off I didn't pull it out. I wasn't able to pull up sometimes you'll see him pull off to be like oh you just changed my reality Yeah, I couldn't pull that off, but you did. You can jump further.

I didn't think you could make it over that creek. And you did. Whoa. Robo. Okay. You've redefined my measuring paradigm for the situation now. So sometimes they can surprise us. Because they have a more talent, a true or more of a talent

or something than we ourselves do. The other thing to answer that question about what did they talk to me? You know, when we first said kids, before we had kids, Camilla said to me, one condition. So what's that? She goes, you go, we go. Which means my work takes me all over the world. And up to that point, I had always gone off on my own, lived in my air stream trailer with my dog. I don't go out on school night. I go to work in the morning. I come home, fix my meal, have a drink, study tomorrow's work, go to bed, over and over and over.

I don't see anybody, nothing. Also, my family there way that can be an artist with my family. And of course But of course, the good voice, the smart voice, my other ear said, you better say yes, man right now. So I'm a yes man. Anyway, it's gonna have to be the most wonderful thing for creativity as well. Yeah. When I'm doing, as you know, I've done a lot of hardcore dramas that happen to be like R rated, that my kids cannot see.

But it's been great for me when I come on my kids five years, I was like, what's this movie about? And I've got to tell them in the version that can make it sound favelic or make it sound where they're with it and they think it sounds really, really cool and interesting. In a g-rated way. So that's been really good for my creativity

to answer those simple questions from my kids when I get home from work or why are you doing this job? Why are you taking this role? Great, thank you for asking me that. Let me see if I can give you a satisfactory answer. If I can't, it's another measurement that we see earlier. Well, maybe I don't have this down yet. Yeah. You know?

Yeah, I love that. That's beautiful because I think, especially as someone as successful as an artist as you, it's so easy to get wrapped up in like, this is how I get the most creative. Or this is my optimal performance level. Or I know how to get into zone. And that can sometimes be our greatest block to actually getting into the zone in a completely different way. Yeah. I'm very much added a great mentor, mine, who would tell me, Matthew, you work so hard

and prepare so hard for a scene. You love to go in any situation, balanced, both feet balanced. You love to go in like this. She goes, I'm gonna tell you this. I dare you to start looking at life and your work right before you go into it. Get on one leg and see if you can find your balance

because in finding your balance is when you're most alive. In finding the balance, the stable position, is when life's a verb and you see life come and your life really happens. You know, and it was a great note, not just in work, but in life, go into a situation and instead of coming in, set, locked in, do the work that you know

how to be sturdy and balanced, but go into it intentionally off balance and find your balance. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I love that. Again, my head's like applying that to a million things right now.

That is so beautiful. I love that. I love the fact that when we're off balancebalance, that's when we're most alive. It's when we're most animated, searching, seeking, like looking. As soon as you feel like you've got it, you know, it just, that's beautiful. That's really beautiful. I love that. And in your book, in the last chapter, you took about the 10 goals you set out to achieve.

And we were just talking about your kids achieving things that you didn't see yourself achieving. You had your life goals written out. Have you surprised yourself? Did you always feel convinced it was going to happen? Which ones have been the ones that surprise you and which ones are the ones that were like, yeah, I saw that. Well, it's funny things. Here's why I didn't surprise myself because when I wrote those tingles down in 1989, I forgot about them the next day. I never looked at them again. We got to had written them. But obviously I didn't forget I wrote them because I accomplished all 10, although I consciously

never looked at them again or remembered them even in a mentalist in my mind. Wow. So, I guess the best I can tell is that, oh, you wrote down some really true goals for yourself, Mccon hay, because you didn't even have to write them down. They were written inside you with the unwritten word because you accomplished them. Now, look, there's something there that I pulled off, I'm like, what? In 1989, you didn't even know you were going to be an actor. You would even admit you wanted to be an actor. And you wrote down you wanted to win an Academy Award for Best Actor.

What? Didn't look at that for 28, 29 years and found it, right in this book and I went, okay, wanted to be a father, keep God in my life, family, live a life where I could look forward looking back. I had some pretty cool aspirations that for the most part, I've succeeded in some way in achieving. Yeah. It's special to see that. And I love that that it was, again, planted as a seed,

but you weren't obsessed about it in a practical way, because it's that obsession that almost makes you feel so far away from it. If you're constantly looking at every day, going, oh, where is that? Where is that? And you're only looking at the Oscar, whereas actually for you, it was that pivot of like, I've been doing these types of movies,

and I feel like I need to un-brand my, all of that was what got you the Oscar. It wasn't obsessing over the Oscar. You're exactly right. And look, your word, purpose. It's, let's deconstruct that in this way for myself as well as everyone else. Because that clarity of purpose to see something and go accomplished. I love that. I need that. It gives me significance, achievement. I can measure it.

I wanted to do that today and I got that done. This is what I wanted and I got that. But it's a dance because not everything is like that. And I don't, if you have a, for instance, in my work, I wouldn't have gone and done work that was deemed excellent. I'll, I went into Academy of Water, or done whatever work I've done work that was deemed excellent. All I went into catamort or dumbed, whatever work I've done that anyone may deem excellent. I would have been as good at it.

I wasn't as good at it until I had a family that came first. When it was my top goal, I was more resultant or it was more about the result. When I had family and I was like, oh, well, there we go. Now I've made it. Acting was number two. Didn't mean I worked you less hard at anything. I worked hard at, but I was all about the process. I've gotten so many more results when I didn't give it damn about the result. It's like that, you know, best rounds of golf. You know, when you walk off the 18th,

they'll and you're headed to the next tee box and they go, no, you finished the round. You're like, oh, I didn't even know this over the run. Oh yeah, you said 63. What? You know, my best work is when we wrap and I'm like, okay, everyone, I'll see you tomorrow morning. They're like, no, there is no tomorrow morning.

This is a show's over. I'm like, oh, that's it. You know, it's the Bo Jackson. He didn't run across the goal line. He ran across the goal line through the end zone of the tunnel. You know what I mean? It's like extend your finish line to a place that you're like, Oh, it's like now dealing with COVID. I think it's very good for us to think, what is this is the going on for another three years? Well, probably be able to engage somewhat normally before then.

But if I think that in my mind, I'm already starting to get my purpose and survival skills are coming to the forefront. I'm preparing. If I'm thinking, I hope it's covered over tomorrow. I'm wasting 30% of my energy thinking, it's tomorrow the day, and then I wake up, oh, I hope it's covered over tomorrow. I'm wasting 30% of my energy thinking, it's tomorrow the day, and then I wake up, oh, not today.

Yeah. Okay, maybe tomorrow. No, not tomorrow. You're wasting the energy. So it's a good practice. I think to put things way out in front of you that are beyond your reach. So then they don't stay in that first place.

You can't quite grasp them. You can't, they're not tangible. And you'll actually probably achieve them have a better chance of achieving them if you just put your head down and stay in the process. I love that. I love that, man. Everyone, that is green lights by Matthew McConaughey. Make sure you grab the book. We're putting the link in the comments. I highly recommend it. If you want to be entertained and lightened and have an experience at the same time, it's a perfect journey and that. And if you want to learn more about someone

that you've been watching for so many years and loving and appreciating, then this is the book to go to. Matthew, we end every episode with a fast five. These are the final five questions. And they have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. So that's the deal. And you've always been already been very generous

with your time. So this is the last thing. thing so your first question is what was your biggest lesson from the last 12 months Make sense of humor your default emotion Nice, I like it awesome. All right question number two. What's something you know to be true But other people would disagree with you on what something that you're like very confident about, but people may not agree with you. Spending time alone and not enjoying the company is a healthy, constructive practice because there's only one person we're stuck with in this life. Spending time alone and not enjoying the company is a constructive trick with it. Don't pull the parachute in the discomfort. You will work it out. The monkeys

on your back will finally start playing and then then swinging from the trees in a right way and you will get organized. Don't pull the parachute in the discomfort. Stick through it. Because if you pull out too early, when you're not get along with yourself, it's gonna bubble up in awkward ways later on and you're gonna be forced to go through the pinnacle. So stick with it. You'll come out the other side.

You'll shake hands with yourself and you realize there's only one person I can't get rid of. And that's me, we better get along. Yeah, I think. I love that, that's great advice. I had many moments like that in my monk life. So I could definitely relate to sticking through that. Okay, question number three. If you could have one superpower, what would it be? Invisible. That's the one.

Yeah, I got it. I got to just take the easy low hanging fruit and go and then just say, okay, now that you're invisible Let's see if you can handle this great free. Yeah That's a real tester there. That's the one that'll challenge somebody the most about what can you do with that power? It is true. It is true. Can you be trusted with that power? Yeah, can you trust yourself with it and can you deal with what it exposes you to? Yep. Yeah, those challenges. Absolutely. All right. Question number four, when does a risk not make sense? Because as you were saying, your father, when you take risks, you started to take, you've taken loads of

risks in your life, you know, there's, there's plenty of examples in the book. when does a risk not make sense? When it's for risks sake. It's like an eccentricity for eccentricity sake. Like, well, what the hell is that for? I like to see, is there construction? Is this a constructive risk? Is taking this risk, what can it pay, what can I get from it? What will be the green light in this? What is my ROI?

Return on investment of taking this risk. And like I said, it's not a risk unless you can lose a fight. It's not really a risk, unless you can lose a fight. Yeah. Well said. All right, fifth and final question. If you could create a law that everyone in the world

had to follow, what would it be? It's not a law, but I'll say this. Great question for all of us to ask ourselves every day. And it will change, this answer changes. Great question to ask ourselves, is this two words? I value. Question more. Yeah, because we all, you know, I bring this up in the book about, we all want to be relevant. Damn right, we do.

But let's not forget to ask relevant for what? What really matters? What's going to pick? Think long money. Not short money. What's the long ROI? What's the big, eternal green light, you know? To yourself out for the future, you know? As much as you can, you know? Yeah, I value is a great question that I think it's prudent for all of us to ask ourselves. I didn't know what it'll change, it'll change.

The answer will change. I think it's a great law. I love that everyone. Matthew McConaughey, green lights. Make sure you go and grab a cup of the book. Matthew, this has been amazing. I've loved every part of this discussion. I'm so glad I got the opportunity to not only read the book, but to spend this time with you and dive in. If there's anything I didn't let you share anything that's on your mind that you're like, yeah, I really want to share this. So I really want wanna put this out there at the stages you as if there's any.

No, that was it. I look forward to talking to you again in the future about your three years as a monk. I'd love that, man. And how much that or how much or how little to what extent that still defines who you are today. Yeah. Because as we all know, the truths truth that crosses in those times of solitude

The world is built to strip those away. Yeah, and it takes its hard To maintain those truths amongst the mass that I'll Emerson quote May the truth that comes to me in solitude? Can I please march through the masses with still the clarity that it holds? Yes, so I'd love to have a lot of the deeper, longer conversation about what that, you know, for a year. Yeah, for sure. I'd love to share with you. Yeah, it's been seven years since I've left and it's just, it's been the, you know, I've

always described it as like, monk school was like going to school. And then the last seven years have been like the exam. And so I feel like I've been applying, I've been noticing the lessons everywhere in the masses in the real world. And, you know, I'm not, I'm trying to pass as many tests as I can, but you know, some you pass, some you fail. And I, but I enjoy the fact that I feel I have the schooling in the map. And so I've tried it. For me, I've tried my biggest, you know, vision is to try to continue to live it. And actually, I enjoy the challenge of having to apply it in the masses.

Yes. Because that's where the fun is. Like, that's where I get the excitement. That's what it was, right? Yeah, that's the thrill. The thrill is not being on the mountain top. The thrill is being in this very, in the game.

Yeah, in the game. So yeah, man. I look forward to that. Let me know how it's best. I'd love to. That would be beautiful. And this was awesome, man. And we can't wait to share it with the community.

They're gonna love it. And they'll love the book too. It's perfect. Like, it's exactly what our community loves. So, it's gonna be amazing. Okay. And thank you, Jay. I should enjoy it.

Yeah, thank you. I really enjoyed it. Pleasure meeting you, Matthew. Thank you so much. Take care. Have a wonderful evening. When my daughter went off to hop trains, I was terrified I'd never see her again, so I followed her into the train yard. This is what it sounds like inside the box cart. And into the city of the rails, there I

found a surprising world, so brutal and beautiful, that it changed me. But the rails do that to everyone. There is another world out there. And if you want to play with the devil, you're going to find them there in the rail yard. I'm Denon Morton. Come with me to find out what waits for us

in the city of the rails. Listen to city of the rails on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Or cityoftherails.com. Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Gemma Speg,

the host of the Psychology of Your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money and much more to explore the science behind our experiences. The Psychology of Your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg, listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season, and yet we're constantly discovering new secrets. The variety of them continues to be astonishing.

I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. get your podcasts.