On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Nara Smith: ‘The Comments and the Hate Got to Me. I Was Crying Every Single Day.’ The REAL Story Behind Her Viral Persona, Online Criticism & Discovering Her Self-Worth

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Have you been pretending to be okay? Is there something you’ve been keeping inside? Today, Jay welcomes model, digital creator, and mother of three, Nara Smith, for an intimate conversation that blends vulnerability, wisdom, and humility. Known online for her serene ASMR-style cooking videos and elevated fashion-forward kitchen aesthetic, Nara opens up about the personal journey that shaped her—from her childhood in Germany to signing with IMG Models at just 14. Together, Jay and Nara explore the gap between her curated online image and her lived experience, touching on childhood influences, struggles with body image, and the courage it took to forge a creative career on her own terms.  Nara candidly opens up about the physical and emotional toll of working in the modeling industry at such a young age, the silent battles with her body through eczema and lupus, and how motherhood reshaped her priorities. She shares how cooking from scratch became a lifeline, first as a necessity to manage her health, then as a passion, and eventually as a business. As she and Jay reflect on marriage, communication, and the complexities of being modern, working mom, Nara’s groundedness and clarity shine through. Nara opens up about her love story with Lucky Blue Smith—their whirlwind but intentional path to marriage—and the beautifully messy reality of raising three kids. It’s a powerful reminder that real joy and purpose come from living true to yourself. In this interview, you'll learn: How to Balance Career, Motherhood, and Marriage How to Heal Through Food and From-Scratch Cooking How to Set Healthy Boundaries on Social Media How to Communicate Better in a Relationship How to Stay Grounded in a Fast-Paced World How to Know When You’ve Met the Right Partner How to Handle Online Criticism with Grace No matter where you are in your journey, whether you’re building a career, navigating relationships, chasing a dream, or simply trying to keep up with life’s daily demands, remember this: you don’t have to fit into anyone else’s mold to be worthy. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here.  What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 02:16 Blending a Love for Fashion and Cooking 04:44 The Grandmother Who Shaped Her Life 07:57 Starting a Modeling Career at 14 09:15 How to Put Confidence Before Comparison 10:02 Protecting Kids from the Dangers of the Online World  11:59 How Early Parental Trust Can Fuel Success 12:49 Why You Should Never Sacrifice Your Health 14:03 Finding Real Love in the Digital World 17:01 How Modern Dating Has Evolved 18:55 Making Young Marriage Work 21:51 The Power of Knowing What You Want 23:45 Building a Relationship on Shared Values 26:30 Marriage Is Both Collaboration and Compromise 29:45 Why Fast-Paced Dating Doesn’t Work 30:54 Working Together to Strengthen Your Relationship 33:31 Communication Is Key to Connection 35:56 Becoming a Parent on Your Own Timeline  38:29 Your Life, Your Choices 42:18 Own and Celebrate Your Path 44:05 Don’t Let People’s Projections Define You 47:32 What You See Online Isn’t the Whole Truth 50:02 Facing Online Negativity with Strength 52:05 Other’s Opinions Don’t Determine Your Worth 53:25 Choosing What to Share and What to Keep Private 56:10 How Food and Diet Can Transform Your Health 01:00:29 Finding Joy and Creativity in Cooking 01:01:24 How Her Online Persona Was Born 01:04:05 The Reality Behind the Content 01:06:48 Simple Daily Habits That Strengthen a Relationship 01:09:44 Tackling the Hard Stuff with Joy 01:13:04 Dressing for Confidence and Productivity 01:17:58 Living Life on Your Own Terms 01:20:23 Nara on Final Five Episode Resources: Nara Smith | TikTok Nara Smith | InstagramSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast. Focus on your emotional well-being and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say,

hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I would be crying every single day. I didn't want to leave the house. I didn't want to interact with anyone

because all the comments and the hate got to me so bad. South African-born model Nara Smith rose to fame after her cooking videos went viral. And her fans have been fascinated with everything from her family life to her style. People love projecting things onto me because I cook for my husband. I'm in the kitchen and trapped and I'm just at home

and he's the breadwinner. They use me as this poster child of this, like, very traditional wife. I feel like 18 is very young to get married. Did you always want to get married young? I never thought about marriage. I never thought about long-term. But then when I met Lucky, it kind of just clicked.

What gave you that inner confidence to be able to say, I know what I want, I know who I am? The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to listen, learn and grow. Today's guest is someone that I've wanted to talk to for quite a while. And I'm so excited that she's finally here in the studio. Today's guest is Nara Aziza-Smith,

a digital creator and model currently taking the internet by storm with over 14 million followers across TikTok and Instagram. As one of the most in-demand creators, Nara generates continuous viral content and high engagement across her platforms with beautifully shot content showcasing her culinary talents, paired with curated scenes sharing her love of fashion, beauty, wellness,

and motherhood. With her authentic digital presence, Nara has built a strong personal brand and garnered a loyal following that continues to grow. Born and raised in Frankfurt, Germany, Nara now resides in the US with her husband, supermodel Lucky Blue Smith and their three adorable children. Today we'll dive into Nara's journey, balancing her full-time career, motherhood and the journey that she's building.

Please welcome to On Purpose, Nara Smith. Nara. What an intro. I'm just sitting here giggling. I love it. I was about to add, I was like, we met last year. We did. At Paris Fashion Week.

Yes. And it was just so nice to meet you. I'd been a fan for such a long time. That makes me so happy because I've been listening to your podcast for years now. And I didn't even, I was, who came up to who? I can't remember. I'm pretty sure I came up to you, but I don't know. Maybe I can't remember.

I was so flattered. I was like, you know who I am. That's how I felt about you. Really? Yeah. I couldn't believe it. It was meant to be. I loved it.

And when you said that you loved listening to the podcast, my instant response was, well, you need to come on. Yeah. And it's taken us a second, but we're here now. Yeah. And I love it already. Yeah. You know what, for me, it's just, I'm fascinated by people who find new ways, creative ways of sharing themselves.

And then when I met you in person, you're like this really sweet, endearing, amazing, genuine person. And like we connected instantly. Yeah. And I felt so comfortable around you and it felt so easy to be around you. And then you look at your online persona and I'm like, wow, you're like, you're like an actor and a character. And it's, it's beautiful to see.

For someone who doesn't know your content or may have come across it, but doesn't really know you, how would you explain or describe what you actually do online? I always find it so interesting when I get asked that question because to me it just feels so natural what I do. And I guess it's just me being in the kitchen sharing my love for cooking but also wearing outfits that you probably typically wouldn't wear in the kitchen just because I'm a fashion girl at heart.

And when I moved to America, I didn't really leave the house a lot because we had kids and then I couldn't work and all of these things. So I was like, well, if I can cook at home in a cool outfit, why not? It's sitting in my closet anyways. So I think that kind of sparked the fashion aspect of my content. And then cooking is just something I feel like I slipped into. And then also learning a lot about myself, my health journey that also inspired the from scratch cooking. I feel like that's how I build my audience and people love seeing it and tuning in.

It is natural for sure. Yeah. But it's so clever and smart and wonderful at the same time. Like you said, no one's used to seeing someone cook a meal from scratch. No. In like a brand new Prada, you know, dress or whatever it may be. And you're like dressed in all white while you're like... That is risky.

The fact that I actually have never spilled anything on myself baffles me every... No! Not even as an outtake? No! Not while cooking, but then I sit down and eat and all of a sudden I've got stuff on me. It's really...

I don't know how it happens, but fingers crossed that I'm not jinxing it right now. You'd be really disappointed watching me cook. You know what? I think I'd have a laugh because watching Lucky cook in the kitchen is interesting. Is he terrible? Oh yeah. That makes me feel so much better.

No, he's terrible. The only thing he does know how to make really well is a steak. So usually when it comes to like steak, I'm like, you do it. Because sometimes I get iffy with it. So he'll do that. I'll do all the rest. And he's a good baker. Right.

I feel like baking is something that you could get into actually, if you're notfy with it. So he'll do that. I'll do all the rest. And he's a good baker. Right. I feel like baking is something that you could get into actually, if you're not already into it. No, don't. I'm so bad. Like, you just have to level your spoons and you're fine. Right. Yeah. I'm not sure I could do any of that.

I'm like a full on mess. There's a video of me, Radhe always like gets me in the kitchen somehow for videos. And there's a video of me peeling an avocado, which is really the most embarrassing thing. Wait, what do you mean? How do you peel it? Well, just watch the video. Okay, we'll check it out after. It's really embarrassing. It's really bad.

Because I had no idea. I can't imagine that. And Radhe totally set me up. But it's terrible. The reason why I wanted to have you on the show is, I also feel that as creators, you get known for a very specific thing. And of course that's your brand, it's who you are, it's your business. But then there's a human behind that and there's a human story behind that.

And I think that's what I've always loved about my show is the ability to get to know the human behind the brand, behind what's working online, behind the creator. And so I know you grew up in Germany. I wanted to ask you like, what's a childhood experience that you had that you feel really defines who you are today or an experience that stayed with you? I think growing up with my German grandma, she passed years ago, but I think she shaped so much of what I love and what I do. So she's kind of the reason that I got into cooking and I've had an interest in

that she was the one that got me kind of the reason that I got into cooking and I've had an interest in that. She was the one that got me into playing the piano that I played for 10 years. She's the one that taught me how to read and now I can't put down a book and I have never been able to. Like, my room was full of books as a child and I think she's a person that really shaped me and my views on the world and I think that's something that will always be missed with her not being here anymore and I wish she could see me now and I hope she would be proud, but I think she is. How old were you when you lost her? I'm not too sure.

I was young. I remember the day she passed. I was actually at home because I wasn't feeling well. And I'm really surprised my parents let me stay home, but I think they saw that I actually wasn't feeling well. And then I remember getting a call on our house telephone at the time and I just, I don't know, my heart dropped, which is weird because we got calls all the time, but I just knew my grandma passed in that moment and I don't know how.

So I answered the call and it was the old age home that she was in and they were like, is your dad home? And in that moment, I just knew because I kind of put two and two together and that was a really sad day. I don't remember exactly how old I was, but I was definitely in elementary or starting high school. Yeah. Yeah.

And was it something she did or was it how she lived? I think how she lived, like she wasn't afraid to do things. She was very independent. She was just so strong. She was such a strong woman. And I think that's what was really inspiring to me. Yeah. I think it's so beautiful.

I feel like there are so many people around us who've impacted our lives, but they never said a thing. No. Like they didn't tell you how to live. No. They didn't give you advice. It's not that they shared some wisdom with you, but you just felt their presence and their energy and how they carried themselves, especially

grandparents, I think. Rathi has that same connection with her grandmother, who's still alive, but she just feels her infectious energy when she's around her. And that's something I hope that I will have with my children and my grandkids one day, to where I don't have to say a lot. I can just be me and live authentically like myself,

and they'll take away whatever they need to, to live their lives in the fullest way. Yeah, you're reminding me of this beautiful quote from Saint Francis, who I love. And he wrote that, you know, wherever you go, you should preach. So wherever you travel, you should preach and if necessary, open your mouth. And it's that idea of like, we actually preach by not preaching. We preach through our character, our energy, how people feel when they're around us. And that says so much more than the words that come out of our mouth.

It does. Yeah. But where did the modeling begin? Because I believe you became a model at 14. How did you talk to me about that transition of... Yeah. So that I actually started Instagram right when it came out. So right when it came out, I was 14.

Well, 13. I lied about my age. Because you had to be 14. I think you had to be 14. I just added like a year on. Is that a Germany thing? I don't know what it was. Maybe, I mean, Instagram literally just came out. That's the generation I'm in. So I never had Facebook, never had anything that came pre-Instagram. Instagram was kind of my first app that I was on. And I just posted my stuff and I wanted to become a model.

I don't know exactly why or where that came from, but that was kind of stuck in my head. And then there was this hashtag, hashtag we love your jeans that IMG models was doing. So I just kept hashtagging my pictures. Nothing really happened. I was just a girl trying to make it somehow. And then they actually one day the president reached out to me and she wanted digitals and whatever. So my dad and I went around the house, did the walking video on my cobblestone.

It was so horrible. I don't know what they saw in me. But then a week later, I was in Paris signing with them at 14. And then I've been with them ever since. I took a little break when my first kid was born, but now we're back and it's great. What gave you the confidence at 13 to like take pictures, post them? Like, where was that coming from?

I think at that age, at least for me, I had no sense of embarrassment or humility in a way. I was like, yeah, I look great. I'm tall, I'm whatever. At that age, I wasn't really insecure about anything. And I think that came later with, obviously, the modeling industry comes with a lot of your appearance is basically the most important thing. So then all of a sudden, you think about all these things.

And I think that's where the insecurity came in. And I was blissfully kind of unaware of all my flaws, I guess, at that age, which kind of helped me to get to that point. And then after is kind of when the insecurity set in. Yeah. It's so interesting, right? Like, I think that age is also getting younger and younger, where insecurity sets in now. Like if you were the generation where Instagram was your first app at 13,

when I was 13, I had a brick phone. I loved that actually. Yeah. My life was, my parents got it for me because I used to get a bus home from school on my own so I could just text my mom or call her and say, Hey mom, I'm on the bus. And that was the reason I had it. And you know, you had to like key in your ringtones. Like there was no, you know, there wasn't an app.

You had to like press the button three times to get the letter. Literally. Yeah. This isn't a smartphone, right? So it's interesting to think how 13 for me was phones were becoming a thing. 13 for you is Instagram. 13 now. I don't even want to know.

That's one of the things that I actually feel really strongly about is protecting my kids from that world and doing everything in my power for them to not be involved in that in whatever way that is. Like they're not getting smartphones. I mean, they're too young to even have a phone right now. They're three and, well, baby, and then three and four. So that's not something we're even talking about, but Lucky and I have always said

we're never getting them smartphones. We're gonna get them a phone that they can call us with and text us with, but also being in the digital space and knowing what the internet is like and knowing what the modeling industry is like. I would never, ever want to subject my kids to that. So that's something that I think I'm painfully aware of

to where I just wanna protect them so much because also I think I wasn't protected enough when I was a kid because my parents didn't know any better. They'd never seen Instagram before, they'd never heard about Snapchat, they've never heard about all these different apps that all of a sudden started popping up and as a kid you're not very, at least I wasn't very forthcoming to my parents about what I was doing on my phone in my room at night. And I think those things are just so important for me to keep my kids away from because of how dangerous the internet can be, especially for young kids.

Yeah. How did your parents feel when you went to Paris, got signed? Like, what was that like for them? They were really excited. They were so excited for me because I feel like I also matured quite quickly to where they kind of trusted me and what I was doing and they let me travel by myself and let me do all these things which now in hindsight I'm like, you guys really, you trusted me a lot but I never

misused that or gave them a reason to not and I think that's what was really important for them in order for me to do what I want it to do. They were always so supportive as long as I kind of put in the effort to get to where I wanted to get. And they still are. They come and watch the kids if I have to work. They come and help me do something. If I have to do content, they'll help. Like they've always been so supportive, which I'm really grateful for,

because I know not everyone has that experience growing up. Yeah. It's amazing that you were able to mature young, but that they were able to trust you, because that's an interesting balance. I felt like when I was young, I was maturing fast, but my parents, it took a second for them to kind of like let go and trust that what I was doing was right.

Yeah. And so that is wonderful. But did it ever get unhealthy for you? Like from a... Yeah. It's never worth it to sacrifice your health and how you feel for you, like from a- Yeah. It's never worth it to sacrifice your health and how you feel for something, because you are going to be good enough in whatever way you choose to show up.

You do not have to try to fit into a mold that someone else is designing just to be good enough for them. Because at the end of the day, whenever you've outgrown that mold, you become useless to them instead of just starting off as you and them either accepting it or not. And then you move on if they don't. And I think that's one thing that I'm kind of learning. The more I grow up, it's, I don't want to fit in someone else's mold. I'll do whatever I want to do.

If you want to be on this journey with me, I'd love to have you. If you don't, that is okay. And you can do whatever you want to do. And I think I have had so many unhealthy patterns with eating and my self-worth and how I look that I just, I'm happy that I've outgrown that. Yeah, so well said. And for people who are looking at you and they're like,

Nara, I want to be a creator. I want to make stuff on TikTok. I want to be on Instagram. I want to be in fashion. I want to be a model. Let's look at some on TikTok. I want to be on Instagram. I want to be in fashion. I want to be a model. Let's look at some of those lanes right now and break down your advice for people. If someone right now is saying, I want to be a model, what should they be thinking about? How should they be approaching that career?

I think figuring out what exactly you want to do. There's like different things in modeling. You can be high fashion. You can be commercial. You could be runway. Like there's so many different things. So figuring out, I think it's so important to figure out what you want, what your goals are, and then seeking that. So if you want to be a model, maybe

posting on social media, reaching out to agencies, sending in your resume, like really doing things to get to that goal. Obviously, feeling and looking the best to you. So don't try to go off and do something that you think agencies will like, be authentically yourself. And if you feel like the best version of yourself, go and reach those goals. Yeah. And what about from a content point of view? Like what were you posting before you became this version of you online?

Like what was your feed? I think it was pretty, not pretty similar actually. I sprinkled in cooking videos here and there, but they were like super simple, like salads and stuff, because I didn't feel that confident sharing that much of my cooking because I was learning and like cooking anti-inflammatory recipes that aren't super interesting.

So I sprinkled in the cooking. I did a lot of morning routines, like the classic, like morning routines, evening routines, little fit checks, get dressed with me. I would do makeup, tutorials, kind of like a mix of a lot of things. And then cooking kind of started taking off. So I went with that and now I sprinkle in all the other things here and there. How many videos did you post? Do you remember before you had a viral moment that really made you go, oh wow?

I don't remember the exact amount of videos, but I do remember the first video was so random that went viral. It was me filming Lucky. It was like a five second clip of, we came back from church and Lucky was in his shirt and slacks from church. And it was like a random clip of him cutting an apple.

And I said there was some text overlay over it being like, I don't even know what the text overlay was. And then I put some viral song on it and it got 30 million views. And I'm like, I don't know what's happening, but I guess people are finding my husband hot. It's great. So that was the first viral video. And then it kind of was just random things.

But then the first cooking viral video was me making bread, butter and peach jam for my kids from scratch. And that's actually the first video I think that the voice was actually more present because my baby was sleeping next to me. And that kind of went off. And then I didn't really think of it though. I didn't really tap into that niche really until a little later on, like months. I did post consistently every single day on TikTok for like a solid year. I never took days off. It was like every day a video would go up and now I'm a little bit more lenient with it because it's so much content and I think people don't understand how much it takes. Like I'm in the kitchen for like five to seven hours every day and then I put my kids to bed and edit for another two hours. Like it does take a lot of time to do what I do. So I'm trying to like give myself a little bit more time

off here and there. And now with all of my other work things going on, I'm traveling constantly, I'm doing things. So one piece of advice actually that I do have for people is doing things because you love them, not because they'll perform well. I think that there's like a rule that you can make with yourself of like filming content that you know is going to perform well and sprinkling that in because you want to keep your engagement up,

you want to like do that, but then also not getting lost in that and being like, well, I hate doing X, Y and Z, but I know it's going to get my views up and then losing yourself in that and then losing the passion and love that you have for creating content. And then essentially you're putting yourself in this box. You're locking yourself in this box because you think that other people want you to just stay in there. But it's actually just you doing that instead of you being like, okay, I'll post content

that's going to perform really well and that I know people will love. But also I love filming, I don't know, cleaning. So I'm going to post that as well, even though it doesn't perform as well. It fills up my cup. So I think finding the balance of posting good performing content and content that you love. And then essentially the content that you love to create is the content that's going to go viral at the end of the day. Yeah, that's really good advice. Yeah. I think that's really honest advice as Yeah, that's really good advice. Yeah.

I think that's really honest advice as well, because it is that balance. Yeah. Because of the way the algorithm works and everything. And then ideally what you said is you find that intersection and you keep looking for it. And that's why I wanted to ask you your strategy and your time, even hearing you're cooking for five to seven hours, editing for two hours a day. I think that's very real. Yeah.

And I wanted people to hear that because it wasn't like this was the first thing you did and it took off. There was loads of other stuff before it. I've been on social media for 10 plus years now. So even though the last year has been so crazy in terms of virality, I've done social media since I've been 14. So it took a lot of trial and error. It's I've done a lot of different things. Fashion

has been a part of my content for so long. Like ever since I've been 14, I started posting outfits back then. So I think consistency and just keeping going and doing what you love and essentially something is going to stick at some point and you'll kind of tap into that and really use that. But then also not to lose the other parts that you actually love. Because it can get so easy being like, oh, I'm going to do this and I'm going to act crazy like this because I know it's going to perform. But then losing the spark and the love for what you do.

Yeah, definitely. And people are going to see that online. For sure. People know when you're authentic and know when you're true to yourself. And they can tell if something gets done for the views or the clickbait or whatever it is. You want to stay authentically yourself because you want longevity. You don't want to be a viral moment that happens for six months and then you're done.

There's been so many creators that had that viral moment, but now they're nowhere in sight because they haven't really built something that is sustainable. So I would take sustainability and building a community over going viral and getting the followers and numbers quickly, and then just having people that tune in because they're interested, not because they actually like love and support you and wanna be part of this little family you're building.

So many people are told when they have a viral moment or when things happen, you've got six months, make the most of it. And I think so many people are given that bad advice. I've had managers, agents, everyone say it to people, hey, you've got 12 months. And after that, you're going to be irrelevant, so just make the most of it.

And I think it's in that moment going, well, no, I love this. Like, I'm going to allow this to pursue my passions. I'm not just going to keep doing the same thing because someone keeps telling me, just do your thing. I'm going to see how this can build and you can actually then have a longer career. Whereas, like you said, if you just lean into that fad, then that's going to go away and it's not sustainable.

Yeah. And I think building something on what you love instead of what's trending or viral or whatever, and people are going to stick around for that. There's people that have been like big content creators for 20 plus years now. They're doing great and I think it's because they love what they do. It's because they wake up every single day and want to do what they do because they see the fun in it, not because they had a viral moment and did whatever it took to get there,

and then what? You know? Yeah, absolutely. What's exciting you right now? Like, you've got so much going on. I do. What about it is just bringing you joy and bringing you life?

I think being in a position where I feel like I get to do exactly what I've always wanted to do. Like, I get to travel and do my fashion stuff and be in campaigns and do other things that I can't talk about just yet, but that I know people have been asking me for for so long that I can finally dedicate time to

and really get something beautifully done. So I think just being in a position of feeling immense gratitude to be able to fulfill all of my dreams and living this like reality that I've always dreamt about ever since being a child. And I just feel very privileged and grateful to be able to do that. You deserve it. It's beautiful. Thank you.

I think anyone who's listening right now, like I'm sure that advice applies to so many people in so many different walks of life where everyone can think of something they pretended to be or tried to be or wanted to be because someone else wanted that. How exhausting is that though? It's so exhausting. It's so exhausting. It's not worth it. It's not worth it, but it almost, like you said, I love the way you explained

it really simply where it was like, I thought being a model meant you're beautiful. Yes. And I think that's what we all say. I thought going to a good college meant I was successful. I thought getting a good job out of college meant I was going to be rich and that meant I was important. Right? Whatever it is, we all have our own formula of what we were told and what we thought we had to live up to.

Like I genuinely believed that if I went to a good college and I got a good degree and I got a good job, then that would mean my life was on track. And if I didn't good job, then that would mean my life was on track. And if I didn't do that, then that would mean my life was not on track. So that was my version of yours. And I was very lucky that I started breaking it quite early as well. You said it was me lucky that started to break that down for you. How did you guys meet?

How did you connect? Yeah, he sent me a DM, We DM'd for a little bit. And then we exchanged phone numbers and he was the crappiest texter. Like he was so bad at texting to the point where I just wanted to be done. I'm like, I don't even care about talking to this guy anymore. And then one day he said, I'm going on a camping trip. I won't have service, but when I'm back, I would love to just hop on a phone call. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, sure, whatever. Because I would prefer a phone call anyways.

I'm not a great texter. But I kind of thought that he was just saying that. But then he got back from his camping trip and he actually called me. And we were on the phone for seven hours straight on that phone call. And I don't know what happened after that phone call, but it just felt like I couldn't be without him anymore.

So from that day on, we it just felt like I couldn't be without him anymore. So from that day on, we were on the phone every single day. And when we weren't talking, we were just sleeping on the phone. Like the phone would be next to me and I'd just be sleeping because we also had a time difference where I lived in Germany and he lived in LA. So it was a little bit of a struggle, but we still made it work every single day. And then two weeks after that initial phone call, I told him I'd be in Milan because I was walking a fashion show

and he was like, me too, what fashion show? And it ended up being the same one that I was walking that he was attending. So that was the first time we met in person. And then that same day he asked me to be his girlfriend. He met my parents for the first time, asked my dad to marry me when he met him the first time. Then I flew to LA, met his parents. Two days later, we were engaged.

And then two months after that, I believe we were married. So, it was so crazy, so quick, but so great. And now here we are five years later. That's beautiful. That's amazing. That's a true like, rocket ship. No, it truly was. And a lot of people were really questioning whether we were sane and doing it this quick.

But I wouldn't have changed it for the world. It's been great. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. Hey y'all, it's your girl, T.S. Madison, coming to you live and in color from the Outlaws podcast. On this week's episode, we're talking to none other than Chaperone and Sasha Colby.

And let me tell you, no topping is off limits, honey. We talk about the lovers, the haters, and the creator. I worked at Scooter's Coffee Drive-Thru Kiosk. And you are from the Midwest. Mm-hmm. And in the Midwest, they told you, just be humble. Like, you've heard this countless times. You too, right?

Oh, yeah, it's very, like, big in Hawaii. Mine was, I think, wrapped up in, like, Christian guilt. Oh, yeah. We definitely had, like, some Jehovah's Witness guilt there. Yeah. Wait, were you Jehovah's Witness? Yeah. So you were Jehovah's Witness?

I grew up that, yeah. My family still says, hey. Or no, bye. Listen, she may have been working the drive through in 2020, but she's the name on everybody's lips now, honey. Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, honey. Have you ever thought about going voiceover?

I'm Hope Woodard, a comedian, creator, and seeker of male validation. To most people, I'm the girl behind voiceover, the movement that exploded in 2024. Voiceover is about understanding yourself outside of sex and relationships. It's more than personal. It's political, it's societal, and at times, it's far from what I originally intended it to be. These days, I'm interested in expanding what it means to be voiceover, to make it customizable for anyone who feels the need to explore their relationship to relationships. I'm talking to a lot of people who will help us think about how we love each other. It's a very very normal experience to have times where a

relationship is prioritizing other parts of that relationship that are being naked together. How we love our family. I've spent a lifetime trying to get my mother to love me but the price is too high. And how we love ourselves. Singleness is not a waiting room. You are actually at the party right now. Let me hear it. Listen to VoiceOver on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, host of the podcast Are You a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here, and she is sharing stories from the very beginning,

like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode. I remember some things about shooting the pilot. Right, I have some memories I can fill you in. And that you're going to fill me in. Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took to pick us up. I completely forgot about it. And she reveals what she thought

when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time. He said he wrote this like I was in his head in some way which I found really interesting. And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big? She had inexplicable feelings. It is the human being that can't explain to her friends why somebody that might be beneath her is dictating the hunt. You can't miss this. Listen to Are You a Charlotte? on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. And back to our episode. That feeling of when you know, you know, it's such an interesting thing. And there's something about what you just said though. Like I remember when me and Radhie first met, she was at college. She was doing her second degree and I just left the monastery like six months before. And so we literally, I saw her every day until I got a job. And so I would go to her college.

Wait, I love love. We would, yeah, go to her college. Wait, I love love. We would, yeah, I'd go to her college. I would sit in the library and apply for jobs online and fill out my resume and all that kind of stuff. She'd go to her lectures, then she'd come back. We'd hang out in between, have lunch together. And I did that every single day. And it was so beautiful because we've really got to know each other. Because we spent so much normal time together.

Even when we started hanging out, we barely went out on a date. Like that was how we dated. And I was hanging out with her friends, they'd come and join us. And it's like you get such a real perspective of who that person is. As opposed to, oh I see you once a week, we dress up for this date. You know, maybe I spend like an hour and a half, two hours with you. But when you're talking to someone for seven hours a day, when we're spending like seven hours a day together, you get a different sense of who that person is.

And you can only do that when you're young. Yeah. Like if I was dating now at this age in my life, I couldn't even spend that much time with someone because there's so much going on. Yeah. Also today, like dating nowadays, I feel like it's so different because a lot of my friends are dating and they're like, I met this person on Hinge or Tinder and I never had any of those apps because I never really thought about it because it also happened so quick.

I was 18 at the time I got married at 18. So in my mind, I was not really at that point that they're at now. And I always think it's so interesting to see people dating nowadays. It feels almost intimidating and I'm very lucky I'm not in that position. It's hard. I couldn't imagine. It's hard. What advice do you have for your friends?

Do they ask you for advice and thoughts? They actually don't because the thing is with Lucky and I, it went so quick. And I told him, I remember when he asked me to be his girlfriend, I told him, I'm going to take this be his girlfriend, I told him I'm going to take this very serious so are you sure you want to ask me this because to me I never wanted to date just to date and I think now with all my friends they love dating they love the process of it. For me personally I always hated it because I felt like I had to open up to all these people and get to know these people just for it to not work out and it felt like a waste of time for me. So with Lucky, I told him when it became serious,

like I take this very serious. It's either going to end in marriage or we're just going to be done now because I'm not going to invest my time in you if that's not the ultimate goal. And he was like, yeah, we're aligned. And we truly were. So I think- How were you so confident and sure of that at 18? Like, I feel like 18 is very young to get married in terms of, if you look at trans. Yeah. Like, did you always want to get married young? Was that always part of the...

No. Oh, interesting. Which is really odd because I had a relationship before Lucky and I never felt that way towards my previous partner. I, I never thought about marriage. I never thought about marriage, I never thought about long term and I think it just was because I wasn't in love with him and it wasn't the right person that I felt like I could spend the rest of my life with. But then when I

met Lucky, it kind of just clicked and I just thought we're either going to do this or we're not and I think, I don't know, I feel like I've always been a little bit more mature for my age than a person at my age would be. And I've always wanted different things in life than other people. I always wanted to start a family. I wanted to have a slower life. I wanted to get married younger. I wanted to work and build something for my kids. And my priorities were never in like partying or going out or dating around or going on a lot of fun vacations. My priorities were a little different. So I think maybe subconsciously aligned my values and what I wanted with how I shaped my life. That's so, such a conscious way to live.

Yeah. Like it's such an intentional way to live. Yeah. Like for you to even be able to communicate to him at 18 and say, hey, dude, if you don't want to be serious about this, I'm not in like... And also for him to receive it too. Yeah. It takes a lot from him.

There's a lot of maturity on his side too. Because I think a lot of people would say, yeah, of course. And then, you know, leave six months later or whatever it is. But for you to have that confidence and self-worth to actually be able to say that, I think a lot of people at 18 struggle to actually say what they want and need because they're scared of the guy or the girl running off.

And so we pretend and we're like, oh, you want something casual? Sure, I'll be that casual, right? Or like, oh, you want something serious? Yeah, I'll pretend to be serious. But six months from now, I've gone away. So where do you think that came from? Like what gave you that inner confidence to be able to say, no, I know what I want.

I know who I am. Can you reflect for a second on where you think that originated from? It probably was my dad. I think he's always been very supportive in whatever I wanted to do. And he's very type A. So he's from a young age. He told us, start saving, get a job, do these things. And I think he's instilled these like very strong values in me to where I knew exactly what I wanted. And also having finished high school and being in a place where I kind of had to figure out what I wanted to do with my life,

and then meeting someone and being like, this is gonna work out or you're gonna waste my time. I just felt like I knew what I wanted. And I think turning 18 gave me that confidence. I was like, I'm an adult now, I can do whatever I want, and I better do it good. And I think that also gave me that confidence to where I could make my own decisions now

and I didn't have to rely on anyone or anything to make those decisions for me. So as soon as I turned 18, I was like, okay, this is what I want my life to be. If you wanna be a part of it, great. If you don't, great. I don't know, I wanted it to serve me and I wanted a partner to fit into my life

and add to my life and it not feel like a compromise because I feel like I had everything I wanted. I had my family, I had my friends, I was really happy. I had work things that I wanted to do. I was traveling for work. I was busy. So to me, it felt like if I'm going to commit to being in a relationship with a partner, you're either going to add to my life or you're not of value to me. Not in a negative way, but more so I don't want to pour my energy into someone and spend all of this time with someone

that ultimately is not going to add anything to my life. Yeah, it's really smart. I mean, it makes so much sense. Yeah. And when you say it like that, I probably haven't thought about it like that for a long time. But as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking, you're so right. Yeah. And when you say it like that, I probably haven't thought about it like that for a long time, but as I'm listening to him thinking, you're so right. Yeah.

We waste so much time, money, energy on people that are not going to be in our life for longer than six to 12 months. And maybe they're around for a bit longer, but I think about it all the time. The amount of money I wasted on dates, the amount of energy I wasted thinking about whether that person was going to message me back. All of that. And of course we all have to learn and we all have certain things to go through, but there is a wisdom in let's be really clear about what we're both investing here. What was different about Lucky that you had an experience before that made you

feel so confident with him? As you said, you didn't really sense that before. So you knew that it was something special. But what was it about him that you feel now when you're looking back that really resonated at that 18 year old age? I think it felt like it was two complete people coming together and forming a unity. It wasn't like I had everything figured out and he didn't or he had everything figured out and I didn't. I felt like we were both in places of our

life. Him coming out of whatever he was going through and coming out the other end and him being in a place to be able to be in a relationship and me feeling the same way and I think that's what really attracted me to him. Him being in a good place, mentally, physically, emotionally, to be able to have a relationship and also being honest with me. I think what attracted me to him was his honesty. Like he would never tell me something that he wouldn't be able to do. So when I told him I wanted it to be serious, I trusted him enough for him to tell me that's going to work for me or it's not going to work for me. And I think that's something I've never had before because a lot of the guys that I dated or had been with, they'd tell me exactly what I wanted to hear, but I knew in my heart that

actually wasn't the reality and their actions didn't line up with what they said. So that was really important to me. And then also that our values aligned. We talked about kids and money and family and our view of life and religion and all of these big topics, I feel like, on our first phone call. So there was never a part in our journey where anything was unclear. We knew exactly where we stood. We knew kind of what would be deal breakers for each of us. And weirdly enough, everything aligned without it being hard or difficult or being conflicting. We wanted to have a lot of kids together. We wanted to both be working. We wanted to build something for our children.

We wanted to do all of these things. And it just aligns so perfectly. It's remarkable. Like it's truly a blessing. No, it is. It's such a blessing. And the truth is, even though you were able to pull it off at such a young age, for people who've found valuable relationships, whether they're 18, 28 or 38 or 40, they found it because of the same reason.

Yeah. The values and the vision piece is at the center of any successful relationship, no matter what age you meet at. Yeah. So the fact that you figured it out young. Yeah. Just means you save time. But the truth is those are the same things that everyone else has to be thinking about.

Yeah. About the values and vision. We just had Benny and Selena on the podcast. I saw that. Talking about their relationship. And I think it was the first time people could see that their values and the way they treat each other. And it's not who you love, it's how they love you and how you love them back. And I think people got to see that for the first time, whereas we're so bad at knowing whether people are good together.

Because we base it on such insignificant information and data that you don't have. Whereas when a relationship is based on vision and values, it naturally has a healthier or a more likelihood of working out. And I think it's also about compromise. Like even if your values align or your vision of life align, I think marriage, you probably know, is always a give and take and a compromise and a listening to and maybe shifting, not your core beliefs, but shifting the way

you want to go about things. I think marriage is a collaboration between two people. That's how I view it. And I think that a lot of people nowadays, it's like, oh, he gave me the ick and I'm just done or he didn't do X, Y and Z. So I'm going to ghost him. And I think at least in marriage for me, that's not a thing. Like we chose to get married. We chose to be with each other for better or for worse. And obviously there's things that once you live together and once you have your first fight

and once you figure out things you've never encountered before, there is going to be conflict and there is going to be a difference of opinion. But I think it's all about how you go about that and how you resolve that issue with your partner that makes you have a really strong bond. And I think Lucky and I, we've been married for five years now and in the beginning, obviously, everything was blissful. We didn't really think about things, but then we had our first child nine months after being

married and all of a sudden everything changed because you have another human being. You go through pregnancy, you go through all these different things. And I think it was really us learning how to communicate better, how to be there for each other, how to be less stubborn, how to be more loving and compassionate. And I think compassion is such an important and vital part of at least our marriage. And I think that's something that we had to kind of learn to have. Not that we've always been compassionate people and loving people, but when you get hurt or you have emotions or feel anger or rage or whatever, it's hard to be compassionate towards the other person. But we've both learned that even though we can still have our own emotions, I can still be angry at Lucky and be compassionate

towards how he's feeling for that situation and want to find a resolution that doesn't mean I can't be angry or feel my feelings. So I think it's all about figuring out how you work together as a team to really be able to have a really strong relationship despite everything else that goes on work, kids, whatever it may be. Yeah. And that's what love is, right? Like I think love is that ability to say, there's space for both of our emotions. Yes.

There's space for my anger and your sadness. Yes. And there's space for compassion at the same time as me needing distance. Yes. Or whatever it may be. And that's what love is. Like it's far more nuanced and complex than, oh, I love you, it doesn't matter.

Which is kind of like, well, that doesn't make sense. No. Because yeah, because- Because you're going to feel resentful somewhere down the line and we don't want that to happen. And I think with relationships, it's all a give and take. You're always learning. And I think that's something that I found so beautiful about marriage,

which is also why it attracted me to being married, is you're in it, for better or for worse. And you really get to make that commitment to your partner to really just see them through life and for them to see you through life and to really lean on each other. And I think that's something I wish more people got to experience because nowadays,

everything moves so quick. Social media is such a massive thing to where you get that instant gratification of DMing someone or being on a dating profile to where you just swipe and you're done with that person. So I think being really locked in is something that's really beautiful to me. I think a lot of people struggle with like, when they feel that people don't love the way they love.

Right? And it's like, at least what I've found is that most people won't love the way you love and that maybe isn't the right thing to expect. Like the difference of who they are and how they operate. It's more about, are we moving in the same direction, but not at the same pace? Yeah. And we might be coming through different routes. Like I often think about it, like you're both driving to the same place, but you

might be coming from different sides. And so I'm on the phone to Rali saying, Hey, Rali, I'm going to be there in 20 minutes. And she's like, it's going to take me like 40 minutes. I'm like, all right, I'll wait for you outside in the car when I get there. Right. And so like we're going to the same place, but we're coming from two different journeys and what's really needed is the communication. Hey, I'll wait 20 minutes.

I'm going to be 20 minutes late. And, and it's that, that you're trying to monitor. Whereas when we say, oh no, I want to go with you at the same time. We're going to leave from the same place. Everything's going to go exactly as planned. It's just very unlikely. Yeah. Right? Does that resonate or?

I think I'm a very type A person. So in the beginning of our relationship, that was something I struggled with. I was like, well, why aren't you meeting me where I'm at? Why aren't you doing X, Y, and Z? Why aren't you being affectionate now? Why aren't you picking up the phone when I need you now? There were so many things that I needed him to be exactly like me on or vice versa. He didn't understand how I did things and it led to conflict. And sometimes that is really hard to figure out because everyone has different

love languages, everyone has a different past, everyone has a different personality. Like, I cannot expect my partner to do exactly what I need them to do when I need them to do it. So, I think we went to couples therapy for a while because we didn't really know how to communicate properly. I always thought I was a great communicator. But going to therapy, I realized I really have a lot to work on, and so does he. So I think as long as you're willing and open

to making changes and listening and learning and changing, that's what's important. If you're stubborn and stuck in your ways, it won't go anywhere. And I think that's what I like about your car analogy. As long as you're willing to pick up the phone and let your partner know, and you're willing to wait As long as you're willing to pick up the phone and let your partner know, and you're willing to wait outside, or you're willing to whatever it may be,

then you really get to be with someone in the best way you can. Like I want my relationship to be the best version of it possible. So I will do anything and everything to learn and grow and communicate and do all the things that are necessary for me to get there. Yeah, I think you hit on something really important there. It's almost like when people are like, what's a green flag? What should I notice?

What should I look for? It's actually that. Yeah. It's the ability that both people have to say, you know what, I could be better. Yeah. I know I can communicate. Like even just as you said, like I think everyone who thinks they're a good communicator can communicate better, me included.

Like I, same with me, before I got married, I thought I was healed and I'd figured it out and I got married at 28, Riley was like 25 and we'd been dating since she was 22. And even getting married at 28, I thought I was pretty, you know, sorted. And, and sure, there were some things I'd figured out, but there is so much more growth I'd made as a husband than I would have not made if I was still single. And it comes back to your point of compassion. If you feel your partner's judging you and wants you to grow because they think

you should be better, that doesn't inspire you. But when your partner's willing to wait and let you work through your stuff and let you grow in your own time, at your own pace, that compassion is what inspires you and makes you enthusiastic. I think that's the best part about marriage, at least mine, is having a best friend that will push me to be better. Like he's never going to sit there and be like, you're doing great, honey. If we both know I'm not, He's gonna encourage me and really help me to get to a good point, but it never comes from like judgment or anger.

It always feels like a nudge of being like, hey honey, how can I help you to reach your full potential? How can I help you do X, Y, and Z? And I think being married actually was like looking into a mirror, because all of a sudden you have this person that you're like, oh, you're not a great communicator. You're not doing X, Y, and Z,

you're not doing all of these things and it's easy for you to blame someone else because you think that you're better than them in certain ways. Like, I thought I was a better communicator than Lucky, I thought I was better at doing certain things, but then when you actually truly sit down with that person and they're like, well, actually, you're not that great at communicating because you didn't communicate then and there and do this. And I'm like, oh, it's actually like looking into a mirror and actually being able to self-reflect on all the work that maybe you should be doing to

have a really successful relationship. Yeah. It's so well said. And I'm just, I'm just blown away. I'm like, I can't believe. Like, cause how old are you in NRA? You're like... I'm 23. Oh my gosh. You're like, I can't believe. Like, cause how old are you now? I'm 23.

Oh my gosh. I feel like I'm talking to like an old soul. That's what people say a lot. In the best way, in the most beautiful way. No, I love that. And I can so sense that it's so genuine and real for you. Like as I'm hearing you talk, I feel it, like it's real, you know?

And I think it's important for people to know that because I can tell that it's coded into your soul of who you are, of how you've been figuring life out. And it's beautiful when someone can figure it out earlier and be so conscious and honest about the realities of what's going on. You were just saying there that obviously nine months after you got married, you had your first baby. I can't imagine how quick this has moved. And you're like having a child too. Like, did you always want to be a young mom?

Like, was that always the goal? No. No? Okay, so that was... I never... I love children now, but when I was younger, I never particularly cared to be around children just because it never felt like something that I was interested in.

And then when I met Lucky, like something that I was interested in. And then when I met Lucky again, that's when everything clicked. And then I remembered my dad telling me growing up, he would always tell me, I wish I would have had you guys earlier. I wish one thing I, not regret, but one thing I wish I could do differently is have you guys 20 years prior and not have you when I'm almost 50 and trying to chase toddlers around. That's not something that he really enjoyed.

So to me, I kind of took that to heart when I met Lucky and I knew where we were heading and I knew what our life would be like. I wanted to have kids young because when I'm 40, they're out the house. So to me, just raising them while I'm also figuring out my life is kind of beautiful to me. I like having them come along my journey and learning with me and growing with me and me being able to relate to them a little better when they're older because there won't be that big of an age gap between us to where it feels kind of harder to connect with them.

And I don't know, there's never a right time to have kids, at least for me. And I always hear parents asking, when should we have kids? When is the ideal time? And to me, there isn't because you're either too young and you want to go to college, or then you're done with college and you want to start working.

And then when you're working, you don't want to take time off because you just started this job. But then, I don't know, five, 10 years down the line, you're a senior in this company and you're so busy and making so much money. And then that's an inconvenient time. So like, when is the right time? To me, there wasn't. And I just loved having them so young.

And is it hard? Sure. But is it so rewarding at the same time? It truly is for me. Every time someone asks me when's the right time to get married or when's the right time to have kids, my response is always, it's the wrong question. The right question is, do I know how my life will change? Because really what you should be asking is, am I aware of what this is going to require of me?

Right? Like becoming married requires something different of you. It does. Having a child requires something different of you. Yeah. And it's like, am I aware of that? That's a fair comment. And am I willing to walk into that?

No, I'm not saying you could ever know everything about how different your life is going to be, you won't. But there's a sense of recognizing this is going to change my life. And I think sometimes it's like timing becomes about body clock. It becomes about an external thing that doesn't mean you're internally open already. And when we're making decisions based on perfect timing, like you said, there is never a perfect time. There truly isn't.

Like me and Radhika have been together for 12 years. We've been married for nine. We don't have children yet. And it's not because we don't want to. I think we do one day, but this stage of our life just, it's been so much based on like personal realization, especially for Radhika. Like when we decided to get married,

the deal was we were going to live five minutes away from our mom's house. Then my career changed and I got this amazing offer to move to live five minutes away from my mom's house. Right. Then my career changed and I got this amazing offer to move to New York. And now we live in LA. And so Rathi's had to like go on this crazy journey. It's a lot. And it's a lot.

And so we've had to like really learn to like understand what that means for us. Put our roots down. The first few years of our marriage, Rathi would go back to London a lot more because she missed home. Like there was just so much to navigate. And like, we didn't feel that we wanted to invite kids into that uncertainty that we had. That was a personal choice.

That's not the right or wrong answer. It's just what was right for us. And I think it's so interesting because, yeah, I think when you make it about the right time and you make it about an age, like, oh, you had kids early or late. It puts parameters on things that are so restricting. And I think that's another thing when people hear that I have three kids at 23. And I had my first at a few weeks after I turned 19, they always freak out and they tell me, why aren't you in the clubs?

Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing that? And I feel like they're projecting how they want their life to be onto me. That's one thing I really struggled with in the beginning, even doing social media with all these opinions of people having opinions on me getting married young and having children young and them not understanding that that is a choice I made for my life. That doesn't mean that that's the right choice for you.

It doesn't mean that your choices are right for me. And I think everyone is on their individual journey like you were saying. You guys weren't ready to really have your life change because your life does change. And I think if you're ready to have that change, great. If you're not, it's just not the right time for you. And I think judging someone based on their timing

of having kids or timing of getting married or whatever it may be is such an odd concept to me. And I never truly thought about that maybe Lucky and I are doing it really early or whatever until I had people's opinions on it. My dad was stoked. He was like, this is great. You're going to be a young mom. But then hearing other people's opinions, it never even crossed my mind before that this might be such an odd thing to do at 18. And now, I mean, I wouldn't take it back for the world. I think it was the best decision we could have made for us because even though it is hard and it changed our life, we found so much joy in it and we find so much joy in it and we really get to grow and learn.

You learn so much from having children and whether that's patience or understanding or whatever it is, I think I'm at the perfect time in my life to receive all of those lessons from my kids and pour back into them. Yeah, I think you're at a really interesting intersection. Yeah. And again, by the way, these are all societal things. These are not like, they're not real.

No. And I always like to remind people that anything that we think is real today is just something society repeated for long enough that it's become normal. Like when we say the word normal, it just means it's happened in society for a long period of time. And that's why things get normalized. And so when people say,

oh, you got married early, you had kids early, that's very traditional. That's a societal take on your life. I didn't even know it was, because the other day, someone brought it up to me and they were like, you have a very traditional way of life. I'm like, what do you mean? Like, we split chores, I work, my husband works, we have children,

we split everything, like I cook because I love to, not because I have to, lucky cleans. Like there was nothing traditional and then they were like, well, you had kids at 19 and you got married at 18. And I was like, and? And they were like, that's traditional. And I'm like, oh, I guess that's traditional then. It never even crossed my mind because I've always been such a believer in having people make their own choices and never judging someone else based on how they choose to live their life and much rather celebrating them. How cool is it seeing someone else be 35 and crushing life and traveling the world by themselves,

not having a care in the world? I love seeing that. Whereas, I also love seeing moms that are 18 and have a child and are doing life. I love seeing that. Whereas I also love seeing moms that are 18 and have a child and are doing life. And I love seeing that. So I think I've always just loved celebrating people at where they're at, that it was such a foreign concept to me, that people would have a negative opinion on me choosing to start my life in that way early on. Totally. And that's why you're at that interesting intersection, as I was saying,

because that's what I was about to say. Like, you're a career person. You have a booming's why you're at that interesting intersection, as I was saying, because that's what I was about to say. Like you're a career person. You have, you have a booming career. You're a model. You're doing incredible stuff online and you're a mom and you love cooking for them. And it's really funny because we, me and Radhi, in one sense, we got married early and now we're having kids late.

And so it's like, you know, you could, whenever you look at things in any order, it's like, well, wait a minute. No, to me, we're on time. Yeah. To me, you're on time. No, I love that. Right? Because it's like, you're on time, because that's the time that made sense for you. But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show.

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All right. Thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. And I wanted to ask you about that, like in the sense of, and I love, I love your answer to how you see the time and the early and late, but I think there's right now, there's such a big conversation around gender roles and around expectations. Yeah. And by the way, me and Radhe get the same thing that you guys get. So people always say to me, you're so lucky you've got a traditional wife and you're so lucky that you've got a wife who loves cooking.

And I'm like, Radhie loves cooking. Right. Like she doesn't cook because it's a woman's role based on tradition. She cooks because she loves cooking. And I don't cook because I'm terrible at it. And if I loved cooking, I would cook. And by the way, Radhie works. She's, you know, she's got an incredible cookbook.

She's a New York Times bestselling author. She's like creating all this amazing content. Like Radhi's got an amazing business of her own. It's not even divided that way, but it's interesting how these perceptions have settled into society. You challenged them because of what you just said. How do you encourage people to like think about that? Like how to get out of that kind of expectation and role

and kind of find your own values in time? I feel like that's something I sometimes struggle with, with my online presence. It's people love projecting things onto me and kind of how I live my life, just because I cook for my husband because it's my love language and I love cooking. They project onto it that I'm in the kitchen and trapped and I'm just at home and he's the breadwinner and all of these things and I'm

like no, I work, I'm very busy, I travel almost every week, I have kids that I raise, I love being in the kitchen because it's a passion of mine, not because I have to. And sometimes I feel like this is where social media gets tricky for me personally is it doesn't matter how much I voice those things and try to make people understand that I am actually a full-time working mom, that they just don't want to get it. They use me as this poster child of this very traditional wife. And I'm not, there's nothing truly traditional about us as a couple, apart from maybe that we chose to have kids young and get married young. But apart from that, we split chores 50-50.

There's things that Lucky does that I guess traditional men wouldn't do, like do the dishes or get the kids dressed or do the hair or whatever it may be that people don't associate with a traditional man. And there's things that I do like having a full-time career and having Lucky be home watching the children while I travel for two weeks, which is I guess not traditional in their mind. It's odd and I feel like people see that side of my life and I've voiced that side of my life, but they still don't want to accept it. So I've just kind of learned to, I'm going to do me and whoever resonates with that.

Great. If they don't, then there's nothing really I can, I can do to change their minds. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a really hard thing to grapple with. Yeah. Right. It's like, yeah, I remember when, when me and Bradley Fess used to create content together,

a lot of people would in the comments comments, like we'd literally be talking about an issue we had or an argument we had and talking about how we try to figure it out. And there were some interviews we did where I didn't even know Radhie was dealing with something and she'd break down in the interview. And I'd be like, oh my gosh, like I, like what's going on? And we'd talk about it and we'd still still get comments from people who'd be like, oh, they just always project themselves as perfect and happy. And I'm like, trust me, that is the last thing I've wanted to do. Like, the last thing I've ever wanted to do is present myself as perfect.

My marriage is perfect or anything as, because really what I'm trying to share is, hey, this is what I got wrong. Like, I wrote a book about love and none of it is based on what I got right. It's all based on what I got wrong and what I learned through meeting people. And, but it's interesting how not everyone hears that because the noise in our mind of what someone is or what they look like kind of overshadows that, if that makes sense. I don't think they want to hear it.

And I think that's what I've learned with being on social media and being so controversial, I guess, is people don't want to hear it. They don't want to change their opinion. They don't want to see you differently. It's like once they've made up their mind about you or have read something, it's also easy on social media. You read a comment or a headline and you believe it. Like there's so many things in the news or whatever it may be that you read the headline and you believe it. And that you read the headline and you believe it and then you actually like Google and do your research and it couldn't be further from the truth.

Also, nowadays society, they love drama. They love negativity. They feed off of fights and opinions and online situations that cause conflict. And I think that's what people love projecting onto me. They love that I'm so controversial and they can kind of say whatever. And in the beginning, it really used to bother me. I'd used to cry at home and tell Lucky, like, I don't understand why they're saying all these things.

None of this is true. And then I would make a post that's like very subtle, I guess. And I would say in the voiceover, like, I'm not X, Y, and Z. I'm actually a working mom. I actually don't believe in these things. And then all the comments would be like, she's lying. She's gaslighting us. She's... And I'm like, I literally cannot win.

And I think that's what I've learned. Like people don't want to hear the truth. They don't care for the truth. They care about what they want to hear and what serves them. So the less I say kind of the better. Because it preserves my energy. There's no point in me saying something that someone doesn't even want to hear. Yeah.

And it's not the majority, it's the minority. It's like... But that's what your brain picks up. It could be... You could get 50 comments of people that love you. And then that one comment that's just so mean and nasty, and that's what you think about for the rest of the day. And I think that's also why I don't...

You saw me walk in with two phones. I have a social media phone and a personal phone, my social media phone. I post, I literally post my thing, maybe read a few comments because I do love interacting with my communities so much. But then that phone is gone. I don't read my comments. I don't really scroll on social media. I don't really consume media.

And then my personal phone is for everyone that actually knows me and can have an opinion about my life. And that's the phone I care about. If anyone on that phone texts me and has an issue with me or thinks something, that's when I'll actually sit down and think about it. The other phone, I couldn't care less. You don't know me well enough for me to care about your opinion at this point. That's a really smart way of separating the two.

Yeah. Because when your mind can't separate the two, you have to physically... You have to physically do it. That's a really smart way of separating the two. Yeah. Because when your mind can't separate the two, you have to physically... You have to physically do it. Yeah, you actually have to have two separate things. It got so bad after I had like towards the end of my pregnancy with my third, I just had whimsy. But that's kind of when everything picked up and people had all of these opinions. And I just remember how badly I was struggling reading all of these comments. I would be crying every single day. I would tell Lucky, like, I didn't know what to do.

I didn't want to leave the house. I didn't want to interact with anyone because all the comments and the hate got to me so bad, especially being in the last little stretch of my pregnancy and then with all the postpartum hormones. And I just realized that if I keep reading these comments, I won't be happy ever again. And it also felt weird now in hindsight looking back, why am I giving them the power to make me feel some sort of way about myself even though that's nowhere near to what my reality is? And I think sometimes the lines of social media and reality can get blurred to where I think sometimes the lines of social media and reality can get blurred to where I am not that. So why would I even entertain that enough for me to go home and cry? Yeah, I'm sorry, sorry to hear that.

That's okay. I can't imagine like being pregnant, the hormones, like taking care of kids, figuring out, you know, it's like, it's a lot though. It's a lot. It's a lot to carry. And it's so bizarre to me that someone is doing what you do can be controversial today. Like, it's so bizarre to me that someone who's doing what you do can be controversial today. Like, it's so bizarre. Like, it goes totally over my head because I'm like, wait a minute. Like, how is this?

It could be anything. How is this any, like, you know, it's so funny how something that's so fun and expressive and what to me comes across as artistic and clever can be anything. I don't even know how you misconstrue it. Like, I can't even wrap my head around that. I don't know, but I think that's also where I struggled, because I was like, I'm just doing this for fun. I just love cooking. I love being in the kitchen.

My kids need to eat. My husband wants something specific that I can just film me making. And it just came from such a loving and fun place that then I think it hit me harder when people had all these Negative opinions on it because I just felt like I was sticking to myself I wasn't like on the internet slagging anyone off or doing anything controversial At least in my opinion and then seeing those comments I was just very taken aback and confused by it

but now I've kind of moved past that and really figured out how to manage my reality and my work in a better way. Yeah, definitely. I love the way you've split that up. And I think that's such great advice for anyone who's online or creating and even in life. Yeah. I think, you know, even if you're not a creator

and you're listening to what Nara is saying right now, there's such a reality in being able to separate and say, these people really know me. They've lived life with me. And by the way, they're honest with me. It's not like I'm just surrounded by people who agree with me. But at the same time, there's a group of people here. Maybe it's people, your colleagues. Maybe it's people that you sometimes work with.

Maybe it's people at school, college, whatever it may be, who don't really know you. And they also don't know what you're going through. I think something you've done so beautifully is you've spoken so openly about your eczema journey, you've even shared imagery. And like, when I saw you do that, I thought, wow, this requires so much vulnerability, requires so much courage. It requires so much strength to see someone like yourself, who is known for fashion and modeling and all of that that to actually come out and share that.

Walk us through why it was so important for you to share that and also what was the, yeah, what made you do that? I think by nature, I'm a very private person. So I think even with the content I put out, it feels very safe to me because even though I'm showing parts of my life, I'm not giving everything away. And I think sometimes I feel like there's so many young girls out there, or girls, or boys, or whoever actually, that watch my content and think I'm perfect. I'm not perfect.

I'm nowhere near perfect. No one is. No one is perfect, regardless of how high of a pedestal we put people on. And I think one of the things that I struggle with on a day-to-day basis is my eczema and my lupus. And I really struggle sometimes getting out of bed or looking presentable or feeling confident when my face is flaring up or I'm losing my hair in chunks

or whatever it may be. So I kind of got to a point that I just felt like I had to share that with people to help anyone go through it because I think a lot of people put me on this pedestal of me being perfect and I just wanted people to realize that everyone goes through things, everyone has things that they deal with maybe behind closed doors and if there's even just one person that could feel a little bit more confident to deal with their flare-up or to feel seen or to feel understood or to feel less lonely. That's what I want to use my platform for. And the amount of people, especially younger girls, that would DM me

their pictures of their eczema or DM me how they felt or the fact that they couldn't believe that I would post these images online because they can't even leave the house feeling the way they feel. It just made me feel like I actually did something to help someone and that's always been something that's been really, really, really important to me. Yeah, it's so beautiful to see you use your platform for that. I can't imagine how much that means to those young girls. I, growing up, had really bad ex-man. Oh, so you get it.

Remember what it was like and it took a long time for my parents. We tried out everything possible under the sun and, you know, it will come back and go away. And, you know, so I can't imagine how much strength they feel knowing that someone like yourself that they look up to and admire and, you know, that they follow is being able to share that journey with them. And that's also what started, as you were saying earlier, what started the from scratch. Yeah.

Food, right? Like that's connected. Can you walk us through that? A lot of people think it's a gimmick and I get it. Like I'm not going to be in the kitchen every day making bubble gum. But those are like the fun things to me. But initially where my cooking kind of came from is after my son was born, my eczema started flaring up tenfold again and it was really, really bad. And it just kept getting progressively worse. And then when he was around two, I just remember I had this insane flare up all over my body. I could barely get out of bed. It was horrible and I just remember feeling so helpless and so sad and I didn't know what to do. So I did so much research on food and how it impacts your body and all these

things. I would spend countless hours browsing social media, reading books, doing all these things to figure out how to heal myself. And I think a huge part of my eczema was that I was eating all the processed food. Not all of it, but I feel like by default when you go to a grocery store, you buy bread because you think it's bread, but then you never check the ingredients for it to be 30 different ingredients. Or you, I don't know, you buy the most random things thinking that there shouldn't be a lot of stuff in there. And the more I kind of checked the ingredients on things, I realized that I was actually not eating good food. And also raising kids, it was really important

for me for them to have a really good diet because growing up in Germany, food is so different over there. I always grew up with my dad going to the store every day, cooking fresh food. We never had processed food. It was never the way it is in America. So then I kind of shifted my whole eating and I went on an anti-inflammatory diet and really made sure that I was eating right. And then that kind of morphed into me making more things because a lot of the anti-inflammatory stuff

you couldn't just find on shelves. So I was like, I'll just make my own waffles with cassava flour and coconut milk and all these different things. And then that kind of just evolved and evolved. And then I was like, I can make bread. I can make sourdough. I can make, I don't know, cheese, whatever it may be.

It kind of just turned into a passion of mine to do that. And I just realized it can be more cost-effective, not everything, but a lot of things are more cost-effective if you make them yourself. It's, you know exactly what goes into your food and you can kind of customize it the way that you want it. So if you want your bread to be saltier, put more salt in or whatever it may be, you can kind of do and I think my love for cooking played into that and then I just spent so much time in the kitchen developing recipes and cooking and really

just having fun with that and then that's where the content kind of came in and people, really just having fun with that. And then that's where the content kind of came in and people, it kind of divided the internet a little to where people either loved it or hated it. And that's kind of what kickstarted my whole content. But also I think growing up with my German grandma, she made so many things from scratch. And I think the older generations do that.

I never, people are always so shocked that I'm doing it and they've never seen it before. And then there's people that really slate me on the internet for being inauthentic and that this has been done before. And obviously it's been done before. Where do you think all of our food used to come from? Like I'm so... That's so random. No, it's so random.

So I just, I love celebrating that as well. And every time I bake bread or do something that reminds me of my grandma, that's something that I really do cherish. So that's kind of where it all started. My health playing into that and then me just kind of recording what I would naturally do. And then sometimes I'd have fun with it and put a fun voiceover with it or like, dramaticize things just a little bit or make a recipe that's a little quirkier like making bubblegum which is so easy and fun to make.

So I think my reality and then playing into it a little was what really formed my content. And that is the food you're eating and the kids are eating. Oh 100% yes. Yeah exactly. Yeah I was like it's yeah it's not just for the content. No. That's what they're eating that day.

No we don't usually buy bread. We don't usually do all these things. Obviously I love eating out sometimes. I'm also just a mom. I love trying new restaurants. So it is kind of that duality of when we're at home, I try to make as many things as I can myself. And when we're traveling or out,

I'll do whatever it takes to do that. Sometimes I love a good restaurant. Sometimes I'll much rather cook at home. So I think that's another big thing. I love doing both and I'm not confined to the kitchen. I cook and do things because I love to do it, not because I have to. If I'm tired, I will go eat out. If I don't want to do that, I will go into the kitchen and make myself a meal. And I think I just love it so much to where it never feels like a chore to me.

Do you remember the moment you nailed, like, you figured it out? You were like, I'm going to wear this, I'm going to cook this. And the voice, like, because when I first watched you and I was like... The voice was different. I was like, this is amazing. I was like... I just love creativity. Like, I get a real, like, this is amazing. I was like, I just love creativity. Like I get a real like kick out of it. Like seeing someone, the point is you're playing into the joke.

Like it's part of the, you know, you're very consciously doing it. So the voice actually originated from, I love ASMR. I listen to it every night before I go to bed. I even like the ASMR where people like eat food and it's like slurpy sounds. That's whatever. before I go to bed. I even like the ASMR where people eat food and it's slurpy sounds. That's whatever. So I love ASMR. Also, the voice originated from me actually having to be quiet

because my kid fell asleep right next to me and I had to be so quiet talking to where that kind of developed. And then people were like, we love the ASMR. I like put it on, like people literally put on my videos for their children to go to bed to. And that is something that was really fun to me. So the voice kind of came and played a role in it.

And it was never conscious. I was like, I literally just have to be quiet because my kids sleeping next to me. I spend an hour putting them down. I'm not gonna have them wake up, but I do need to get this content up. So that's where the voice came from. Wow, that's such a cool story, that's great.

And then the outfits, I just loved dressing up. I remember when I started dating Lucky, I told him I will never wear a dress ever. And he was like, just try it. And I was like, no. But then I was pregnant with my third and all that was fitting in the Texas heat was a dress. So then that kind of evolved in my content as well to where I kind of got known for my fashion and the dresses that I wore.

And then that kind of evolved more and more where Chanel actually sent me a look that they would debut on the runway months later. And they'd never done that with anyone ever before. And that felt like such a privilege. And then fashion obviously has been a part of my life for so long. So that just became like a fun outlet for me. I'm like, if I'm not going to leave the house in these outfits, I will wear them in my kitchen. So that's where that came from.

And then what else was there? That's kind of, those are the pillars of kind of what I do. Yeah, we talked about the cooking, the fashion and the voice. I think it just like evolved with time. It was never like a conscious thing that I sat down and I was like, I'm going to speak like this to do this. I'm going to wear this to do that. I'm going to do this because I want a reaction.

It was never premeditated or thought out or whatever it is. It just kind of evolved. And then sometimes I'm like, yeah, it would be fun wearing a yellow outfit to make Capri Sun because I want to. It's just I'm just having fun expressing myself. like, yeah, it would be fun wearing a yellow outfit to make Capri Sun because I want to. It's just, I'm just having fun expressing myself. And if people want to tune in, it's great. Yeah.

I love people knowing that 99% of creators, when they start something, it was never that thought through. No. And that's what made it so beautiful. Like I remember, if you look at my first videos I ever created, I'm in these really beautiful scenic locations in London. But the truth is me and my friend were just walking around trying to find out where security wasn't, right? So we had no permits.

We had no booking. We had no money to like say, oh, we're going to... So we would just walk around London early in the morning and try and figure out where security wasn't. And we'd find these spots where you'd get like London Bridge in the background or St. Paul's Cathedral in the background. All these beautiful iconic locations because I like the look of them.

And we would just find it. My earliest mic was literally a backpack with a mic stuck into it to hold it up because we didn't have a mic stand. And in the first videos you see, my hair is like flying all over the place and everyone would be like, why has he got a wind machine? No, it was cold.

I was in London and my hair was just moving. A wind machine. And like, it just looked really, those early videos at that time, I mean, now they'd be out of date, but if you looked at them like 10 years ago, when I've, nine years ago, when I first started creating content, these videos went super viral, but it was like, I didn't plan any of that. No. That was just what happened.

And obviously what I said was planned or thought through, but all these little things that people would notice, it was like, we just got lucky. No, I know. Like there was a lot of it that was just, you know. That's how I feel sometimes people are like, I can't believe your outfit matches this. And I'm like, I didn't even realize either. Or people are like, I can't believe you've never spilled anything on yourself.

I'm like, oh. Or they're like, wearing white to cook pasta sauce is brave. And that doesn't even cross my mind. Or all these random little things that people pick up on, you don't really do consciously. People always tell me, she has a full production team, and a nanny, and staff at home, and a cleaning crew. And I'm like, it's literally me, my iPhone, a tripod. Sometimes Lucky's like, do you want help filming? And I'm like, no, because it

needs to be like a certain, I'm like very type A. So I'm like, no, no, no, it's me and my tripod. It's okay. And then he does cleanup. Bless his heart. Because at the end of my videos, there's like a pile of dishes. But people always assume these things and they're like, she has a nanny. No, we don't. Lucky and I tag team. And when I'm filming, he's with the children.

When he has to travel for work, I'm with the kids. And now it's at a point where we should be looking at getting help because it's getting quite a lot and we don't have family that live by. But all these assumptions based on a piece of content that 99% is just coincidence has always been really baffling to me. Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. Shout out to my thick thighs.

We'll save lives. Clearly. Save lives. I'm a strong believer that there has to be at least one thick thigh in every relationship. Like, it's personally why I don't really go for guys who have the same body type as me because it's like playing a xylophone when you're cuddling, you know? Bone on bone hurts. Wait a second, Evie, that was the hottest thing you've ever said.

Can we please ignore that? It's the realest. That was not the hottest thing you've ever said, trust me. For me as It's the realest. That was not the hottest thing you've ever said. Trust me. For me, as the thickums one, yes it was. Okay, okay. Touche. Thank you very much.

You know, queers love to date people who look exactly like them. You know, everybody's looking for that twindrome, but I need somebody to balance me out. You know, I'll be there like weird massage chair in the back with all my knuckles and elbows, and they'll be like my memory foam bed, you know? We balance. Honestly, the bigger the build, the better. I want to feel petite. Please. I love a man with thighs. I love a man with arms. A little belly. I've been super into the little like, beady boys right now with a little belly.

You put that little belly out. Hey! That's what you're supposed to have. High key. Listen to High Key on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Maren Morris is here. You came out of a marriage, you came out of quote unquote

country music, and you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell. I realized I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace. And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself. There were a lot of like identity crises going on, but I realized like, I can't look back and slow down for people. I want to set my own pace and I will sacrifice my comfort to move at the pace that I have worked really hard to move at. Literally everything that could change in your life

happened in like five years for me. And you know, it was a slow burn. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Radhida Vlukya and I am the host of a really good cry podcast. And I had the opportunity to talk to Davy Brown. Davy Brown is one of the most sought after wellness educators and through her signature

blend of advanced meditation, breath work, metaphysical physiology, spiritual psychology, and holistic trauma-informed facilitation. Davey has touched the lives of countless students, including renowned artists, athletes, and executives of global corporations. But anything can be used as a tool of avoidance. With women, any kind of thing where there might be this underlying edge of self-sacrifice as martyrdom. If you're never filling, you're telling yourself a story and you're actually avoiding what you should be doing. Your life at the end of it is still going to be a sum

of your experiences. And so you got to get in, you got to get your hands dirty. Listen to A Really Good Cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now back to the discussion. I think it's just so hard for people to imagine. Yeah. Like how can someone be a mom, cook every day, from scratch, look great,

like, you know, like have all your aesthetic down. Like it's so hard because so many people are just like trying to like get by, but you've made it something that's fun for you and enthuses you and energizes you. Like it's not something, and you've taken something that you are doing every day anyway for the kids because you want to cook for them and made it something fun. And I think about it, like my mom, I've been talking about this a lot lately because I've been reflecting on just like how amazing my mom is. And it's like my mom cooked me and my sister

a fresh breakfast, a fresh lunch and a fresh dinner every day. She was the breadwinner of the family. She dropped us to school, picked us up until I was old enough to do it myself. She helped me with my homework. She had my sister with her homework. My mom just didn't film it. If social media was a thing then.

Could you imagine? And my mom could have filmed it because she was doing all of that. Yeah. She literally did all of that. Now she didn't do it in Chanel, but she did all of that. And even now I look back and I think, mom, how did you do it? And I think I look at you and I think it's amazing, Nara, like it's really amazing that you're able

to, and it's kudos to you, like you're the one working hard. You're the one figuring it out. You and Lucky are the ones splitting it up, but it's admirable to see you're like working hard. You're taking care of your kids how you want to, you're cooking how you want to, you're dealing with your own personal health and everything

else that comes with it. And I'm sure it's not easy. No, it's not easy, but I'm privileged to be able to do what I do. I feel so grateful that I get to do it and have the flexibility of being at home with the kids and splitting my time with Lucky. I feel grateful that his job allows that too. So I think we've created our little daily routines that really help. And we just love living life like this. And I know it doesn't work for everyone.

And I always think it's such an interesting thing when people try to knock me down just because their life looks different. I understand our life looks different. I'm not expecting you to do what I'm needing to do. I'm just putting out content. And if you feel some type of way about it, you can also just keep scrolling. Like I'm not forcing it down your throat.

If you want to tune in, great. And take away whatever you want to take away from it, great. Like I've had moms be like, I'm not cooking like you, but I made my kid bread yesterday and it was amazing. And that always makes me smile. I'm like, you don't have to do it all. I don't do it all. That's the thing, like people think I'm this perfect person

and I'm not. I have a husband that's very involved. I have very like good structure. On some days I can't get out of bed because my lupus is flaring up and I just can't do that. So I think just taking my content with whatever you want to take from it and just enjoying it. Yeah.

And if I'm honest, I see so many people and there's one quote that I love from Gary Vee where he talks about how hate is loud. Yeah. And it's like, I always remind myself that it's like, people who love you are just quieter, like they'll like something. They won't say anything. No, they won't. And yours is different.

I mean, there's so many wonderful comments. So whenever I'm looking at your stuff, I see so many people being like... To me, I only see the hate comments. Yeah. I'm always like, oh, okay, time to get off. After like five minutes, I'm like, oh no, okay, I have to be done now. And I think we're all like that because we're all wired that way. And I'm here to remind you and just say, when I look at it, I see so many people being inspired.

Like, I just tried that recipe. Oh, I love that look. Like, oh, I'm going to try this for my kids. Or like, oh, that was... And what you just said, like, my kids fall asleep to this. So, and I think the beauty is that I don't think this... First of all, I think you're hilarious and really talented. I don't think you're saying that, at least from my perspective,

not saying that anyone should do what you're doing and really talented. I don't think you're saying that, at least from my perspective, not saying that anyone should do what you're doing at all. Like I don't, you're not coming across as a teacher or a preacher or a guru. Like it's, that's not what it comes across as. It's just, that's you living your life and having fun. And it's almost making something like you love cooking and that's awesome. It's also just making something that's quite laborious into making it fun, right? I saw this video the other day where it's like two guys

who clean all the places that no one wants to, and they video it and they put it on TikTok. See, that's the stuff I love watching. And it's so cool. Like these guys will literally go around and clean subway stations, clean this, clean that, clean stuff, make stuff look nice, because they want to. And I think it's, they have a cleaning business too,

but it's like, it's so cool. And I'm like, that's awesome. Like you're taking something that's pretty hard to do, something that's true and you're making it fun. And I think that at the very least, that's something we can all look to as well is we all have things we have to do every day that we don't want to do. And if you can try and make them more fun, more enjoyable, whatever it is for you that works.

But I want you to know, yeah, I see all these good comments. It always makes my day when I find you on my For You page. Thanks Jay. And it's just fun and it's, and it's fun to watch interesting, curious, talented people who, you know, to me, you're a comedian in disguise. Really? I love that. Yeah. You're a comedian in disguise to me.

Like it's like, that's what comedians do is they create great characters that people can laugh to connect with and resonate with and poke at. Yeah. And that's what you've done. And then when I met you in person, I was like, Oh my God, like, you're like one of the sweetest, nicest people I've met in person. And then you're like this complete badass on like, you know, on social media. And I love that, that juxtaposition of just, you know, you being who you are and then playing this role.

I feel like my content is, it's like, to me, I view it as myself, but enhanced. Yes. Like the funny version of myself in some videos, the more like polished version of myself in some videos, the more, I don't know, creative version. It's like me, but depending on the outfit I put on and what I cook, I become an enhanced version of myself. And that's so fun to me, which is also why I love fashion and cooking, because

you can dress up and feel a completely different way. Like you feel, at least I feel different ways depending on what I have on. And that's kind of the energy that I tap into. And that's kind of the part of my reality person that gets enhanced for that video. Yeah. And I love that. I love that. That's how you think about it.

Yeah. And by the way, that becomes really real in normal life too. I remember when I was saying earlier, like when I would go and see Vathi in the library or work, I remember I used to get dressed as if I was doing something important. And that helped me. And that was at a time when I made no content.

I didn't have any videos. I was doing it for myself. No one even cared who I was, but dressing as if I was important helped me feel like I could apply for jobs, that I could show up as my best, that if I bumped into someone that, because I was in a really tough place. I was rejected from 40 companies after leaving the monastery. No one would give me a job. I was living in my parents' loft. I was getting rejected left, right and center.

I didn't even know if I'd ever get a job again. Was that hard for you? It was super hard because I'd become a monk because I loved it. I'd left because I didn't think it was right for me anymore. And now the jobs that I would have landed with ease three years before, because I had a first-class degree, I couldn't get them. And that was really hard for me because I just, you know, I never imagined that I would not be able to get a job and pay my bills and living with my parents again.

I felt bad because I was, you know, living off of them and they don't have lots to offer me. So it wasn't easy, but I remember dressing up for me felt like I can do something important today. And for some people, they don't want to do that. You'd rather be in your sweats, whatever. That's awesome. But all of these little things really work with our mind, like psychologically. And I think we underplay how much sight and scent and sound can change how you feel. Yeah.

I don't own sweatpants actually. Like Lucky does, sometimes I'll like... You own zero sweatpants. I own zero sweatpants. I used to own them, but then I got rid of them all. You're my inspiration. So to me, I don't wear sweatpants apart from maybe when I steal one of Lucky's, but that's like very rare.

I just, I think a lot of how I perform during the day is how I dress. So if I want to get stuff done, I will dress a certain way. There's like never a day where I wake up and don't do my skincare. There's never a day I don't wake up and do my hair at least. If I actually want to feel like my peak level of production, I do my makeup. Not because I feel like I need to to feel prettier, but more so it makes me feel productive. I put on what I want to wear to feel a certain way. If I'm like, oh, I'm going on a little lunch with my friend and I want to feel like super girly and whatever, I will wear a cute dress.

But if I'm like, OK, I actually need to just power through meetings all day long. I will wear a suit because that makes me feel like I'm just going to get stuff done. So to me it's all about dressing and doing things to make myself feel a certain way. Yeah. So I'll never fly in sweats. I don't do that.

There's like things I do to make myself feel a certain way. And I know it doesn't work for everyone, but growing up also my dad had a weird thing with sweatpants. He was like, you're not. There's this thing about, I think Karl Lagerfeld said something about sweatpants. I don't remember exactly what it is, but my dad basically said, if you... Let me find it.

Yeah, you need to find it. Because he had a quote about sweatpants. What did he say? So he said, Karl Lagerfeld said, sweatpants are a sign of defeat. Yes. You lost control of your life, so you bought some sweatpants. Yes. That's what my dad would tell me growing up.

He said, Karl said that. And that's why we're not doing sweatpants. That's crazy. If I ever was in my pajamas, like after 9 a.m., he thought I was losing it. So when I was 16, I bought my first sweatpants and then I really liked them, whatever, because I feel like in Europe, like they love their little tracksuits,

like the Nikes, but then the older I got, I'm like, actually my dad's right for me personally. Like I feel like I've lost control of my life if I wear sweats, I cannot. The like, what I'll do is like get a matching pajama set if I really feel like I just need to veg out. I'll do a matching pajama set. But that's just what works for me. And I think that's also the thing with like fashion in my

videos, like I want to feel good. I want to feel confident. I want to dress up and feel like these different people. So that's where fashion plays like a massive part in how I go about my day. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun. And it's so interesting how

the way we're parented had such a like. Like, Rali has that with waking up early. Really? Rali was someone that even if she went out to a party at night, her mom would be like, if you're not up in the morning... No, I'm telling you. ...like you're late.

Yes. So, like, Rali wakes up so early every day because that's hardwired into who she is. Yes. And I think we all have different versions of that. Yeah. I was so excited after the pandemic up so early every day because that's hard wired into who she is. And I think we all have different versions of that. I was so excited after the pandemic to never wear sweatpants again. Cause I'm the same. I don't like sweats, but during the pandemic I fell into it and I was...

You can find comfy denim. Like you don't have to do skinny denim. Like I feel like the more baggy ones are coming back anyway. So just wear that then. For sure. Yeah. I think what I'm hearing from you, what I've learned from you is that you found a way to do life on your time in your way with your permission.

And I think that's what we're all seeking. Like I think that's what we're all looking for. What we all really want is to be able to get married when we want, to not get married if we don't want, to have kids when we want, to not have kids when we don't want. And I think when we feel like to not have kids when we don't want. And I think when we feel like we're living according to everyone else's expectations and society's rules, that's what takes us away from who we really are.

And it seems like you've found a way to do things on your timeline and in the way you want, whether it's sweatpants or not. And there's beauty to that because I think that's what we're all looking for. I think it's also nowadays, I feel like everyone tries to fit in certain worlds. Like everyone wants to buy certain things, look a certain way, get a certain haircut, do certain makeup. And I think that was never really appealing to me. I love doing what I want to do. I want to encourage I love doing what I want to do. I want to encourage you to do what you want to do, regardless of what that may look.

I just love empowering people to really find their truth and speak their truth and live authentically like themselves, which is so important to me. And I just love sharing my journey and hopefully that inspires someone to do what they want to do. Not replicate what I'm doing, but do what you want to do and feel empowered in making decisions that may not be the norm or may not be what society wants you to do.

And I think that's what's so beautiful about life. Like, you can do whatever you want to do because you get to live life and experience all these things and do exactly what you want to do. You don't have to do what I'm doing. You don't have to do what every other influencer is telling you to do or your parents are telling you to do or whatever. You can be yourself.

And that's so beautiful. I love that message. Yeah. Nara, it's been such a joy talking to you today. I've learned so much. I've learned so much about you. Thank you. I also have to figure out how you became so eloquent.

Like you're a brilliant speaker. Stop! No, you are. I'm being honest. It's wonderful to see someone young with an old soul who is working on themselves, working on their marriage, trying to give their kids a beautiful conscious life in whatever way you believe is important. And I'm a fan, I'm going to keep supporting. And I, and I love I'm gonna keep supporting,

and I love watching you and your family grow together. We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These have to be answered in one word or one sentence. Okay, bring it on. Maximum. So, Nara Smith, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Don't try to be perfect, just do it.

Good advice. Second question. What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Try to get it perfect. Cause nothing's ever perfect. And if you wait, okay, I'll, I'm going off on a tangent. You can, you can. If you wait for it to be perfect, you'll never get started.

I would much rather you try your absolute best and put something out or do something and knowing you've tried your best rather than constantly overthinking it, trying to get it perfect and never progressing in life because of it. Question number three. What's the least Narra Smith thing you do? I don't style my hair every day.

Okay. Unless I want to feel productive. So sometimes on days where I'm like, today is just like not my day. I'm like, okay, no hair done today. I love that. I guess. I look forward to those days when I'm not on camera

and I will literally be wearing a hat. No, the hair is like the first thing I don't do when I don't have to do anything. But then like all the other stuff, I'm like, I actually have to get ready or else I don't feel productive. But the hair, sometimes I'm like, you know what, I'll just put it in a little ponytail. It's fine.

I love that. Question number four, what role does faith spirituality that play in your life and how important is it to you? It's so important because it's my center and I feel like it guides me and it keeps me grounded and it keeps me humble and compassionate. And it really makes me have a purpose and makes me wake up in the morning knowing

I can be the best version of myself and I'm protected and I'm blessed and I get to live life so beautifully because I have faith. Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show. Yes. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow,

what would it be? Being more compassionate and not doing things you wouldn't want people to do to you. Because I think sometimes we don't think about that and people just go off and do the most insane, bizarre things. And I just want to create a law, whatever you do not want done to you, don't do to other people. That's great. Yeah.

We need that. Yes. We absolutely need that. Nara Smith, thank you, don't do to other people. That's great. Yeah. We need that. We absolutely need that. Nara Smith, thank you so much. Thank you so much. For your openness, your vulnerability, your time and energy. What people don't know is while Nara was driving here today, she actually had a flat tire in a rental car to get here. Cause she's in LA at my home, at the studio.

And she went through that to get here, because she's in LA at my home, at the studio. And she went through that to get here and she turned up just the sweetest, kindest energy. And I always feel like when someone's going through something, you know, I was thinking about it, I was thinking, oh my God, that'd be so stressful. You're in a new town, you've got kids, you know, all this stuff going on. And she showed up just wonderful energy, just super still. I felt so bad. I'm sorry again for being 30 minutes late.

You just, you do not need to apologize, but if you're not already following Nara, please follow her across all of the social media platforms. Also let me know on TikTok and Instagram, clip cut away, show us what resonated with you, what connected with you, what advice is going to help you. Whether it's breaking through into doing something you love, whether it's trusting your timing and not trying to live on everyone else's time, and whether it's finding your passion and pursuing it with all of your heart. I think there were so many great insights and wisdom in this episode.

I can't wait to see what resonated with you. And Nara, thank you so much again. Thanks for having me. I look forward to spending so much more time with you. Thanks. Thank you. If you love this episode, you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness

and healing your inner child. You could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like, that is so unfair because that's not who I am. And that really gets to me sometimes. But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like, but I know who I am.

Why does anything else matter? High key. Looking for your else matter? High-key. Looking for your next obsession? Listen to High-key, a new weekly podcast hosted by Ben O'Keefe, Ryan Mitchell, and Evie Oddly. We got a lot of things to get into. We're gonna gush about the random stuff we can't stop thinking about.

I am High-key going to lose my mind over all things Cowboy Carter. I know. Girl, the way she about to yank my bank account. Correct. And one thing I really love about this is that she's celebrating her daughter. Oh, I know. Listen to High Key on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. It's your girl, Tia Madison, coming to you live and in color from the Outlaws Podcast. We're talking to Chaperone and Sasha Colby. We talk about the lovers, the haters, and the creators. In the Midwest, they told you, would you just be humble? Mine was, I think, wrapped up in, like, Christian girls. Oh, yeah.

We definitely had, like, some Jehovah's Witness skills there. Yeah. Wait, were you Jehovah's Witness? Yeah. My family still is. Hey. Or no. Hi.

Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or where you can find the latest news on the show. my family's still gonna say, hey, or no, hi. Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, honey. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Maren Morris is here. You came out of a marriage, you came out of quote unquote country music,

and you had a huge growth spurt from what I can tell. I was expanding and growing at a really fast pace. And yes, you could throw motherhood and the postpartum thing, learning about myself. There were a lot of like identity crises going on, but I realized like I can't look back and slow down for people. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast.