On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Naveen Jain ON: How To Break Down Your Biggest Problems & Solve Them Without Mental Suffering

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

Naveen Jain, the entrepreneur and philanthropist has committed his life to solving some of the world’s biggest problems, and he shares how with Jay Shetty in this episode of On Purpose. No matter the issue, Jain does his best to solve the roots of problems and not just tackle the symptoms, bringing tangible hope to uncertain times. Need a voice of reassurance and a fresh perspective? Listen to Jain share his vision for the future in today’s episode. Text Jay Shetty 310-997-4177 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. This is the Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Lewis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours.

Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. We all realize that if our tribe died, we could not survive alone. That mistaking care of tribe was something we did for our own survival. And I really think it's very interesting is that today, we believe it doesn't matter how much we have,

we're going to always want more and there's always going to be scarcity because people are greedy. Hey everyone, today's guest is a truly fascinating individual. He's an entrepreneur, a serial philanthropist, and he's also the founder of some of the most innovative companies in my opinion on the planet. They include companies like Viome, Blue Dot, Moon Express and InfoSpace. His name is Navin Jane and he's truly got a mind that challenges innovation, it challenges intuition and it's not just counter intuitive, it's not just different, it is truly, truly radical. So Navin, I am so genuinely

grateful, humbled and fascinated to be sitting with you today. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart, I genuinely feel that when you think and you articulate things, I'm like wanting to solve a puzzle. So for me, this is a puzzle to be solved, not an interview. But first of all, Jay, it's so kind of you and I'm honored that you chose me to be here because I think you're going to have some fun conversation. And hopefully we can move the needle and we can help billions of people live better lives. Absolutely, and I think we really share that mission. I think we both really care.

And for me as someone who I genuinely believe sitting in front of you, someone who's just starting out, I wanna learn today, I'm sitting here in front of you wanting to learn from you. So I'm excited to be coached, mentored, and empowered by a incredible mind. And Jay and Sam here. I'm here to learn from you in terms of how you can take all the information and really provide the people that essentially can use that information to live better lives. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm really, really excited

about this. I want to dive straight in. We know that your book's called Moon Shots and your company right now that you're building, working extensively on is Moon Express. And when I read about the mission of Moon Express, I was like, whoa, like how does one even think about? Because people want to get to the moon. But you don't want to get to the moon so that we can live there.

You want to get to the moon so that we can take lunar resources and apply them for innovation to the world. How did you even come up with that idea? Well, I mean, if you think about what are some of the biggest problems facing humanity? First thing is really the survival of the human species. So every one of us who you know worries about

the climate change and everything else, the first thing they tell you is, I'm really, really, really worried about this planet. And my answer to them is, please don't worry about this planet. This planet is going to be just fine. Worry about the human species that may not survive. If you think about it, when all of the dinosaurs died, this planet tried. The planet was totally fine.

And it created the human species. If we keep doing what we're doing, human species may not be around to enjoy it. This planet will just go on. It's going to create new set of species and they may be smarter or dumber than human species. So my job really is to figure out and say, is there any way we can potentially make humans as a multi-planetary society. Because if all of us are living, seven billion of us are living on a single spacecraft, and we call that a spacecraft planet Earth.

Now imagine, if our spacecraft gets damaged because we get hit by an asteroid, then we couldn't become just a dinosaurs, right? And if you can hear any dinosaurs rolling in their grave, what would they be saying? They will be saying, if they had one good entrepreneurial dinosaur, they would be roaming on the moon and the Mars and the beyond. It didn't happen for them. So why not we as humans could start to figure out, can we actually live on multiple spacecraft? So if one spacecraft gets damaged,

either because of some external situation or we humans are pretty capable people ourselves We could destroy this planet and at least we could save the human species and recreate the human species on other places Well, so the human planet is more powerful than the human species So we're more likely to go extinct Do you just think though that this is quite I'm going off the line here I'm going into the line here, I'm going into the conversation as we were talking about. Do you just think that humans are too irresponsible, that no matter how many resources we have, we're so irresponsible, we just waste whatever we're

given? Well, it's very interesting is that human species actually everyone thinks is greedy, and it turns out actually we as human species are very giving, in fact giving and philanthropy and taking care of others is built into our DNA. So if you go back and look at the things when we were living in small tribes, we all realize that if our tribe died, we could not survive alone. That means taking care of tribe was something we did for our own survival. And I really think it's very interesting is that today we believe it doesn't matter how much we have, we're going to always want more and there's always going to be scarcity because people are greedy. In fact, we can go out on a stadium,

70,000 of us could sit in a stadium and we enjoy the game without ever feeling greedy about air or oxygen. We never slept that guy next to us and say, it's not breathing my air. This is my air. I paid for it. People just all of us can enjoy air and oxygen because we inherently believe the air is in abundance. Oxygen is in abundance. Now imagine, if the energy was, becomes the next air that becomes abundant, that means is democratized and is demonetized. Now, every 90 minutes, more solar energy falls on planet Earth than we use in the whole year.

It's just simply a matter of conversion. And that will happen. It is no different than if you go back a couple of hundred years ago, the most precious metal used to be aluminum. And the reason was because it was very hard to extract pure aluminum. And we needed to extract from box site, which was extremely hard to do.

Until the technology called electrolysis came about, it made it so cheap that we now throw it away. Now, what would be the electrolysis of the solar power that will make it so easy, so cheap that electricity or energy will become abundant like air and it will be freely available to everyone. And if you have a free energy and abundant free energy, you'll be able to get abundant fresh clean water. Even the dirtiest places in Africa, you'll be able to distill the water and all the

organisms that people get sick from, they're going to all go away. Now imagine the same thing can happen with agriculture, same thing can happen with the food. What if we had abundant food? What if everything that we value today, everything that we fight over today, what are all of those things become abundant, right? What is that we fight over? We fight over land, water, energy.

And you start to think about, if we can have abundant energy just like we talked about, abundant water that we talked about, and land, where is the scarcity of land? We are a tiny pale blue dot in our own solar system. Our solar system is a tiny dot in our galaxy. Our galaxy is a tiny dot in our universe. And our universe may be a tiny dot in this multi-verse. Where is that scarcity of land we talk about? The scarcity is our mind that believes we cannot live anywhere else. What if we can change that? Well, I love how optimistic you are. It's incredible to hear optimism because I don't doubt to either. I don't doubt to either. You're right. And I think it'll be fascinating. I'm fascinated to see you do it.

But how do you actually mindset now, Jay? Because I think one of the reasons people believe that it can't be done, because in their mind, it is impossible. Totally. that it can't be done because in their mind it is impossible. Charlie. The minute people believe something is impossible, it becomes impossible just for them and no one else. So now let's talk about living on the moon. Because see, how can you possibly live on the moon? Are you that naive to not know there is tremendous amount of radiation?

How are we going to go live on the moon? So one thing someone to talk about is, how do you take the most complex problem and you start to break it down into simple things and I want to give that mindset to everyone who's listening to it? So let's start with like living on the moon. When people say, you cannot live on the moon because there is such high radiation

and you just stop for a second. Now let's see what technologies currently exist or needs to be created to make that possible. And suddenly, you will realize that nature has already solved many of these problems. We find bacterial species growing in radioactive nuclear waste. Imagine what that means is, now the nature has figured out how to protect its DNA from extremely high radiation and use the radiation as a source of energy. Now, if we can take these bacterial genes, use CRISPR, which is a genetic editing technology, to modify the human genes in vivo, would it be possible to become radiation resistant?

Absolutely. Now, the technology may not exist today, but would it be possible to become radiation resistant? Absolutely. Now the technology may not exist today, but would it be there in three or five years? Absolutely. So now we say, okay, that problem is not in the beyond the realms of physics. It can be solved. Now it's the next thing people say is fine, I give that to you. How are we going to grow the food on the moon? And my answer to that is, that's a dumb question.

The question you need to be asking is, why do we need to eat food? And then suddenly people say, oh, you're that stupid. In that case, let me tell you that. We need food because we need energy. We need nutrition. And I just stop for a second. Let's analyze both of them.

You need energy. The plants can get energy from the solar system like photosynthesis. bacteria gets energy from radiation. Can the solar system like photosynthesis. bacteria gets energy from radiation. Can't we use either photosynthesis or radiation as a source of energy? Yeah, that's quite possible. Now it comes to our nutrition.

What nutrition are we talking about? Well we need hydrogen, we need oxygen, we need nitrogen. Hold on. There is a water on the moon. If there is water, there is H2O. That means there is hydrogen. There is oxygen. We can break down the water and you can hydrogen and oxygen.

Now the nitrogen thing is pretty interesting. Let's think about how we're going to get there. Let's put that on the shelf. Now living on the moon is simply about how do we get nitrogen to the moon. And that problem now we can work on solving. And that is really what I mean by taking a complex problem, breaking it down and saying what is the that needs done to solve that problem. This is what it sounds like inside the box card.

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I saw it and I saw, oh well, this is a very unusual situation. It was cacao, the tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen, or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun fight. I mean, you saw the stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate.

We're all lost. It was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind, so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle, and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building arm with machetes. And we've heard all sorts of things that, you know, somebody got shot over this.

Sometimes I think, oh, all this for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions while chocolate. On theHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Absolutely. Now if you're listening to this you can't see my face. If you're watching this you can see my face. If you're listening I am mind blown right now because I love the way Naveen thinks about a problem and if you are listening and you want to take notes, take notes on how Naveen solves problems

and how he thinks about them differently. It's so unique, it's so powerful. And I'm so glad that we align and agree because the way you think about these problems is how I think about the human mind. Because to me, when I think about it it no matter what planet we end up on yeah if our mindset and our mental health is not taken care of we both know that no matter what facilities you provide us with the human mind will find flaws the human mind will feel imperfect it will feel depressed it will feel anxiety so for me that's the big problem that I'm trying to solve. I think in the first of all, you're absolutely correct

that human mind to some extent is always looking for problems because at the end of the day, if you think about how we grew up in the savanna of Africa, what was the thing we always survived? If you missed the bad news, if you did not hear the some type of rustle in the leaves, your whole gene pool got wiped out. A good news did not matter. So, the only thing we are mindful is constantly scanning for is negativity. The amygdala is designed to think about what can go wrong, always skimming for the bad news,

is looking for the bad news. And that's the reason the people in the news business have figured it out. If it bleeds, it leads. They're constantly feeding you with the negative news because they know your mind will always be paying attention to it. And that's the reason. All of the scientific advances that's making our life better is no longer being talked about because people are not looking for that. And that's why I admire people like you, Jay, who are honestly taking the message and the message is really simple. individuals and collectively billions of people. So your mission is so close to what it needs

to be for each one of us to be thinking, what can I do? Not what can someone do for me? What can I do for someone else? What can I do to make the lives better for someone else? Our success will never be defined by how much money we have in the bank. Our success will never be defined by how much money we have in the bank. Our success will always be defined by how many lives we have been able to improve while we are still alive. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I want to rewind back because in the book, Moonshots, you talk about your life and you

talk about how you started out. And I do think that's important to highlight because your journey is incredible. You didn't have it handed to you on a plate. No one gave you the wealth, the resources, the knowledge that you have here and said, hey, here you go, go change the world. You are an immigrant. You have the immigrant mentality. I want to know where did this desire and this hunger to want to have this impact on the world come from and where did it start? Well, you know, it's really hard to find specific things, you know, people tend to rewrite the history after they become successful, they go back and rewrite their life or what that moment was. But the truth really is, life is a continuum. Every thought process is built on

something in the past, every experience is built on something from the past, and there comes a time where you essentially become different and it's not like something in the past, every experience is built on something from the past. And there comes a time where you essentially become different and it's not like suddenly it is a step function, it is a continual change that's constantly happening. So to me, growing up in India, we were very, very poor. We didn't have a food to eat, we didn't have a place to stay. And we lived in most remote villages where there were no schools and nothing. And despite all of that, my sister went on to become a postdoctoral and applied mathematics. My brother has a PhD in statistics and computer science and I did my engineering and MBA came to the United States

about 35 years ago with five dollars in my pocket and just a dream. An amazing thing happened. The God has been so kind to us. Any which way you look at it, God has given us everything we could have possibly asked for. And the only way I can pay the debt back to the society for what I have received is to go back and do things that can help improve the life self, billions of people in the society. I know the people who helped me don't need my help.

And the only way to pay back is to pay forward. And I hope that by the time I die, I would have paid my debt back to society. That's beautiful, man. That's beautiful. I couldn't agree more. You're so right that the people that help us, you can't pay them back.

And the only way to pay them back is to pay it forward. I couldn't agree more. You're so right that the people that help us, you can't pay them back. And the only way to pay them back is to pay it forward. I couldn't agree more. And I feel that my work in the same way from my teachers that taught me everything I know, this is my same expression of that feeling, that emotion. I would love to even, you know, let's exchange some notes here because you learned a lot being a monk and Eastern philosophy. And the things we are right now learning and doing is goes back to that. With Vio. With Vio more otherwise, if you start to look

at the basic knowledge of what makes us happy. So you talked about being depressed and anxious and mental health. And you go back and look at this thing. People had so little in ancient days, they didn't have air conditioning, they didn't have fancy houses, but they lived happy. What was it? Because it came from inside. If you are unhappy with yourself, if you don't love yourself and you are unhappy with yourself.

It doesn't matter, you could be in paradise and you bring that unhappiness with you. And if you are in love with yourself and when I say love with yourself, I just wanna make sure, I'm not talking about being self-conceited. What I mean, you're not looking for approval from someone else because you're comfortable who you are.

You're not looking for someone to're comfortable who you are. You're not looking for someone to approve of who you are. And then if you are happy inside, you could be sitting in a dark corner and you are happy because you don't need someone to make you happy. Happiness is a choice. And people can make their choice every single day. Even if you are very, very rich, you can find a reason to be unhappy. I'm only flying in a Gulf Stream 5. My life sucks. Look at Larry Page. He's got 747 converted. Look at Bill Gates and he's flying in this big plane. My life just sucks. Or you can say, oh my god, I woke up from the bed and my joints don't ache how lucky I am. I turn around and say, wow, look at the women next to me. I am just so lucky.

You can, every day, you can find reasons for you to be happy. The happiness is when you are comfortable with who you are. And the minute you start to prove to someone else, then you are never successful and never happy. And that's the reason why I believe that only way to measure your success, full or not, the day you become humble is the day you become successful. If you still have IOT off arrogance left in you, then you still try to prove something to yourself

or someone else. And the day you let go of that, your success. I love that man, that's beautiful. That was one of my quotes I had down in my notes, because when I read that, that touched me so much, because I so much believed that the desire to always be a learner, desire to always be a student and to recognize what you keep saying the words,

intellectual curiosity, and how that disappears when we lose humility, how the ego just takes over. And even, I think you and I briefly were talking about education and that is again another problem we are facing is that we believe the job of the teacher or the job of the parent is to take the horse to the water, take the child, make them drink.

And I think that is the fundamental problem, we are not creating the thirst. Because if you can make someone thirsty, you never have to take them to water or make them drink. They will find their own water and they will drink all their life. And that is what I call intellectual curiosity. Give them a chance to think, what if everything they want is possible? What if the world can be created exactly what they want? So, don't focus on what the world is, focus on what the world can be because if you can

imagine it, you can create it. Well, that's your philosophy. You're great at, and I love it. And I agree with it. You're great at seeing how your work can empower others, not make them dependable. That's right. Right. You don't want to create things so that the world depends on you. And so that you're seen as someone who's providing everything. Your belief is that how can we find ways to empower people uniquely? And that's really interesting that as we are talking about the company, the healthcare company that I started, our mission was making illness optional, not making illness obsolete. Because making illness obsolete says, just listen to me, let me do it.

And you can count on me to do something. Instead, we say, no, my job is to empower you with information and actionable things that you can do to make illness optional. That means you have to have a choice and ultimately it will be your decision. Tell us about why I'm a bit more about how you actually going about solving that problem. Because I think healthcare is just such a huge issue. And I love what you said earlier that you don't want people to rely on the government to change anything and institution to change anything, but people can become the change themselves. So let's do it by my own. Yeah, so I think, you know, before we get to why,

I just wanted to give you a little bit background on how I got to be here because as you will realize, I am not a scientist, I am not a doctor, I'm not a physician, I will not rocket scientist. Right? To me, the biggest strength that you and I have is not being an expert at what we do. Right? You, if you are came from a media and you try to do what you're doing, Jay, you will miserably fail because you're trying to bring the knowledge of the existing paradigm into a new paradigm and you feel. The thing I believe you're absolutely the master at it is because you were naive. You were willing to challenge the foundation of everything that everybody in this industry take it for granted.

So to me, if not being an expert is your biggest expertise. Well. But if you are afraid to do something because you say you don't know much about it, always think that is your biggest strength that you don't know much about it. And I'll tell people, this industry has never seen anyone like me because they should be scared because I don't know what is possible. I love that. It's unbelievable. That is so funny. That's amazing. So as I was finishing my project of the Moon Express going to the Moon and taking literally the Moon shot, what do you do for an encore? And I thought, you know what?

To do an encore, you got to go out and maybe solve yet another moon shot. And I thought the two biggest problems, really that I want to solve were education and healthcare. And I start to look at both of them. It turns out that both of them are very, very similar. In a sense that in both cases, people believe the system is not working for them. In both cases, people believe the education system and the healthcare system is completely broken. And it turns out neither of the system is actually broken. In both cases, it's doing exactly what it was designed to do. So you look at our education system.

It was designed to teach us skills. In the industrial era, we needed, you know, 50,000 people were lathe machines and 50,000 accountants and 20,000 of this skill. And you could learn that skill, use the skill for rest of your life and life was amazing. In the world of exponential technologies, it doesn't matter what skill you learn, even by the time you graduate, the skill you learned has become obsolete. So how do we create an education system for the new paradigm where skills are no longer needed, however learning to learn is needed.

So it is basically not that our education system is broken. It was designed for our current system. And you know, just to give you an example, if you see your grandpa using that old flip phone and say, and he's making a call, say, grandpa, your phone is broken. Grandpa says, no, the phone is doing just fine. It was designed to dial the phone number. And it does that. It doesn't play Angry Bird. It was designed to play Angry Bird. So it's not broken. If you need is to play Angry Bird or to play apps, then you need a totally different phone But doesn't mean you phone that was designed to be a phone is broken and that's the reason I believe the new education system will be

Learning to learn it will be about learning to solve problems and most problems tend to be multi-disciplinary rather than unidisciplinary That means you have to learn multiple disciplines rather than become expert in one discipline. It has to be collaborative. It has to be adaptive, right? And all those things will come about. Today in our education system, collaboration is out the window.

So if I'm in sitting in an exam and I say, hey, Jay, what do you think is the answer to this problem? They call that a cheating. And you do the same thing and the company people say, what a great team player. Sometimes. That is such a good example. So point is, we have to change the education system has to adapt. Now you look at the healthcare system exactly the same thing.

It was designed at the time. So when we were dying from infectious diseases, so we waged the war against the bacteria and viruses without realizing what makes us human. And to me, that was the really the biggest learning for me was when I started looking and start to look at why is it that we spending more and more money in the healthcare and people are getting sicker and sicker? The hardest part for me was here is the only industry that we know of that only makes money when the customer doesn't actually get better. So healthcare industry, everyone makes money

when you are sick. And no one makes money when you are sick and no one makes money when you are healthy. What other industry you can get away with that? In fact, when you have a chronic disease, I wouldn't be surprised if a farmer company than the hospitals have a caching button. You go there and say, I got a chronic disease, catching a lifetime subscriber. They don't want to understand what is causing that chronic disease. All they want to do is suppress the symptom so you become dependent on their drug for

rest of their life. Now imagine, if you were to do a simple research and it's called Dr. Google. So you go to Dr. Google and you type any chronic disease Parkinson's and microbiome. You type autism, depression, anxiety, autoimmune diseases, obesity, diabetes, heart disease, liver cancer, pancreatic cancer, breast cancer.

Every one of the things I mentioned is caused by one thing and one thing only. Chronic, low grade inflammation causes chronic diseases and chronic inflammation happens with the imbalance of microbiome. And when I was going out and looking at the healthcare, it turns out to me that in last five to seven years, the research is pretty clear that every chronic disease is caused by the imbalance of microbiome. And people are wondering, what is that term he's talking about the microbiome? Let's go on to his step back.

We as humans, there are more foreign cells in our human body than the cells we get from our mom and dad. There are more foreign cells than the human cells. That is nothing. In fact, a lot of people talk about our genes or our destiny. Now, one thing people don't realize is from the time you are born to the time you die, your genes never change. Your DNA stays the same from the time you're born to the time you die. Somewhere along the lines, you get sick. How can that possibly be your DNA?

It has to be something else. And so it is really not your genes, but your gene expression. And it turns out the human genes that we get from a mom and dad, they're only gene expression. When it comes to gene expression, our human DNA express is 20,000 genes. That's it. There are organisms that are living inside the gut. 40 trillion of them.

And how much is 40 trillion? Just to put in the context, there are 7 billion people live on this planet Earth. If there are 5,000 different Earth, all the people combined live inside the single person 40 trillion of these organisms live inside us they produce somewhere between 2 million to 20 million genes they express 2 million to 20 million gene that means at best we are 1% human That means at best we are 1% human. What happens in our gut controls everything in our body. And it's very interesting that we talk about these mental diseases. Every day there is a research that shows that how our gut controls are.

There is a neural circuit. In fact now they found how it is synaptically connected to our brain reward center. So imagine when you're depressed, what the first thing you do, you eat. When you're anxious, you get butterfly in your stomach, you don't get butterfly in your head. Right. It's very interesting is that suddenly we start into realize that gut may be key to our overall health and overall being. And I can say that to you, I never tell anyone in the Eastern philosophy. That is it. Right.

When you go back and not only talks about the gut, in fact, you remember mom will say, listen to your gut. Do your gut check. But I was going to see something different. Remember Brahma, the creator of the universe, it comes out of the navel. It shows that's where the life starts, life starts in the gut. In fact, the first time we are seeded is when the baby goes through the mother's birth canal, that's where seeded with all these microbes. The first seven days of mother's milk contains colostrum.

Colostrum cannot be digested by the human body. It can only be digested by the microbes in the gut. So imagine what nature is telling us. I just created this offspring. The only way to keep this offspring healthy, it do not to feed it, but to feed them. Because when you feed them, they release the nutrients. It actually modulates and trains our immune system. Now, if you think of a human body, it's pretty gross to think that way. We are actually like a donut, right? The attitude that goes through in the middle for us, right? And our human body is really around that. That's sufficient. It's around the tube. 70% of all of our immune system is along our gut lining.

That means our microbes are constantly training our immune system. Immune system, it would cause the inflammation. Immune system is what keeps us actually alive and healthy. Now, most people have very hard time understanding this concept of microbiome. So I came up with this alternate tongue in cheek story of what made such human or how humans were created. And if you can indulge me for two minutes, I like to share this story. Yeah, I want to hear it. Because once you hear that story, you can never unhear it. Okay, let's do it. Right. So, you know So if you imagine that we know this planet is 3.6,

4.6 billion years old. And about 3.5 billion years ago, you start to see life on this planet, the amoeba, the bacteria, and viruses, and yeast, and the fungus, and mold. Humans are only a couple of million years old. So how did humans come to be? So imagine if this is how it could have happened and I'll give you the scientific basis for each one of the things that I'll tell you the tongue and cheek. So imagine now all these one day all these bacteria and viruses and organisms got together and say we're sick and tired of living in this small space

We want to take over the world and they all looked at each other one of the smarter ones is I have an idea What's your idea? What if we can create something by pedal? What if trillions of us could live inside it all we have to do is keep this thing healthy We can make it crave any food we want. It's going to go run around everywhere and find the food for us and it's going to feed us. And it's going to go everywhere in the world. It's going to poop everywhere. It's going to spread us around and we're going to take over the world and they created this new invention and they call that humans.

And after they created humans, they all started to wonder what have they just done. So today, as we are all afraid of artificial intelligence, and we wonder, what if someday AI becomes smarter than humans, what is going to happen to us humans? These organisms were no dumb. They said, oh my god, what have we just done? What if someday our invention becomes smarter than us? What is going to happen to us? They reassemble and say, master, master, we have a problem. What is the problem, son?

Master, aren't you? Would it be created humans? What if someday they become smarter than us? Master, see, don't worry. We put all the controls in place. What are those master? Humans seem to be forgetting that inside their cell, this thing they call mitochondria, it is one of our bacterial brother right inside their cell. It powers the energy. It gives energy to their cell and

Remember, we all talk to it all the time. Anytime they don't take good care of us, we tell our brother to shut the energy down and they all dead. Master, that is brilliant. But are you forgetting something? They start into develop something called brain. What are we going to do about that? Master says that the first thing we thought about, you remember we all live in the gut. We put a direct connection to their brain. And can you believe that? They call that a vagus nerve. They were thinking like, if you they call it after last vagus, what happens in the gut is going to stay in the gut. They go, what happens in the gut

goes everywhere. Now, I'm going to tell you a secret. We control their mood and emotions. We use the vagus nerve to control their amygdala. We control their prefrontal cortex. Now, what makes them feel good? This serotonin thing, we don't let them produce much of that. 90% of all the serotonin, we produce it ourselves in the gut. If they want to feel good, they better feed us right. Now, like a good leader, we make them think

they are the one who are making the decisions. We sit here, we pull all the strings. So we are the puppet master. They are simply our puppet. So sit back relax. We're taking over the world. Now imagine to that story, Jay, it sounds really fictional, but there is a nature paper that was published three months ago. That says how microbiome in our gut uses the microRNA interference to control our amygdala for their own benefit.

They control our mood and emotions for their own benefit. There was a paper that was published that how microbiome and mitochondria constantly are communicating in aging. So as we age, our microbiome changes, it reflects in the mitochondria that changes our energy. And now they're able to find that they can replace the mitochondria in the cell and the signs of aging go away. So I really believe that every day we are now finding that there is a neural, neural circuit that's directly connected to our brain and they've optically stimulated the epithelial cells, the gut lining lining and within milliseconds it actually hit the reward center of our

brain. Someday when we think our gut is our secondary brain what if we are wrong? What if that is the primary brain? Before this was developed our brain was developed we had the gut. Gut may be the primary brain, just like we used to think the earth is the center of the solar system. And when Galileo said it may not be right, they started to stone him to death. What if we are wrong? What if gut is really the key?

What if the gut is the brain? And we are simply the puppets that are actually run by these organisms. And when we die, these organisms simply find a new host. So what do we do at Wyome is very interesting. We found the technology that was developed at Los Alamos National Lab. They were trying to solve the problem of the bio-defense work. And they developed an amazing technology that can look at your gut every single organism, not just who they are, not who is active, but most importantly, what are they doing? And by looking at what they are doing, we are able to now understand what is causing the inflammation in your body and what nutrients you're lacking. So now you can personalize the food for every individual

and saying, a food that's good for you may not be good for me. And one of the very interesting things we learning is there is no such thing as universal healthy food. It's finished that people pop I taught all of us. It was healthy. It turns out, it's finished has so much oxalic acid. Unless you have enzymes in you gut to detoxify oxalic acid, when you eat spinach you are going to harm you. The same thing happens with pomegranate juice in the blackberry. People who go on a keto diet, what happens if they eat too much protein and some people when they eat too much protein, it doesn't digest in the upper intestine,

it goes to the colon. And it feeds the protein fermenters that releases the ammonia and sulfite. And it makes you causes higher inflammation that causes bloating. And by the way, chronic low-grade inflammation that may end up as obesity, diabetes and all other chronic diseases. So what we actually do is to be able to tell you what food is good for you and why, what food is bad for you and why, and specifically just for you.

So here we are able to now understand the key to the health and what is a healthy food, one person is not healthy for someone else. And food is really the medicine. And here's very interesting. We felt really, really good that we have really cracked the code of understanding what, you know, he's human. And history is amazing to keep you humble, right?

We go back and look at what hypocritic seed, 2500 years ago. All diseases begin in the gut. One man's food is another man's poison. Let food be thy medicine, let thy medicine be the food. And I'm thinking really, even before that you have our Vader. That's my point, right? I have a Vader.

I have a thousand years ago. 5000 years ago, what did they say? Everyone understood they did that thing at a gross level, the Kapa Pita, right? And they say really, gut is the key. Everything. Everything was in the gut. And you know, if you go back and look at the Ayurveda,

it talks about the life starting in the gut. And it talked about looking at the gut and finding out what is going on. And telling you what food is good for you. And we all have a unique makeup. Unique makeup. All different. Right.

Yeah. How did it happen that we forgot everything? Well, we ignore it, right? Like we want to be the discoverer. Yeah. We want to be the discoverer. We actually, I talked about we want to be the inventors. Yeah.

And therefore, we don't like using previous discovery, not recognizing that everything was previously talked about. But that is the beauty that if you want to make a big change, you have to stand on the shoulders of the previous judge. That requires humility, like you said. That requires the humility to do that. Otherwise, it's much more fun to think you founded something. It's like my saying, oh, we found the food is the medicine. Yeah. Really? No, we did not.

Yeah, exactly. But we liked that. It feeds us. The only thing we did is we are able to now scientifically prove what they already need. Which is brilliant. I'm so happy to hear that. Like it's brilliant.

It's modernizing Ayurveda. That's exactly what it is. Now that is the reason, you know, when people like Deepak Shrup are listening to me and they say, really? So now you're learning Ayurveda. I'm like, real? That's what I'm doing. Yeah, but the difference is you're not just learning it. You're finding out ways where we can be more specific, yes, more detailed and we can do it at scale, which I think is powerful. And also explain to the people in a simpler word, the science behind it. Yes, absolutely. And that's what we need. We need that. Like, I think all of these ancient sciences exist, the mind, the gut, etc.

But if we're not able to explain it to people in a powerful, productive way, so what you're doing is just unbelievable. But here's the interesting part. It doing that, it can only work if people, if actually when people try, but we have to come together as humanity. So, interesting thing is, look at the pharmaceutical companies. To large extent, they want to keep us sick. And, you know, a chronic disease to them, as we said, is really about a subscriber. From their perspective, they believe the humanity will never come together. And you know when you get the data about one person, it is about data about one person. If you want to solve this problem for billions of people, millions of us have to come together. So we can understand exactly the different

permutation and combinations of the organisms and peptides and enzymes in your gut. So we can understand exactly the different permutation and combinations of the organisms and peptides and enzymes in your gut. So once we understand that for every single disease, that's why we believe we can make disease optional. But unfortunately, I can't do it myself. We have to have a million people come together to help us solve this problem. And if we don't, we're going to watch our children

and grandchildren suffer. I believe our generation is the first generation that has the technology at its disposal to once for all eliminate chronic diseases. And if we don't do it, it'll be a missed opportunity for all of us. And I don't know about you, but I have three children, RJ, and I cannot watch them go through this. And my dad just passed away two weeks ago from Pancadic Cancer. And I was reading the research, it clearly shows that how Pancadic Cancer is caused by the microbiome

moving from the gut, going to pancreas, shutting down the immune system. And I was by his side when he passed away two weeks ago. And I said, Dad, I wish I had started this company two years ago. I would have found the solution. I can't help you, but I promise you I'm going to work twice as hard to make sure no one else suffers from it. So I have made it my mission to make sure that we can eliminate these sufferings from chronic

diseases. Anyone who has seen their parents go through dementia, Alzheimer or any types of chronic diseases. We look at autoimmune disease. It's so prevalent in our society now. And when you look at the drug, all they do is simply suppress the immune system. They don't care what causes the disease. No one wants to look at the root, all they do is simply suppress the immune system. They don't care what causes the disease. No one wants to look at the root cause of what is causing the disease. They simply say, let's suppress the immune system if you autoimmune disease. But Doc, if you suppress the immune system, don't you think I'm going to get other diseases? Oh yeah, but we got drugs for them. Oh yeah. But what happens when I take those drugs? Well,

you're going to get other symptoms, but don't worry, we got drugs for them. And by the time you get to my age, you're popping more pills than blueberries. Yeah. That is a sickening system where no one is looking at what makes people sick. Everyone is trying to keep the people sick so they can make money. So I really hope that people who are listening to this understand that we actually can come together and solve this problem.

And if all of us can come together, our generation will be the one that will be known for solving this problem. So let's stand up together. Let's not just watch it happen. I loved what you said to me when we were outside around. A lot of people, if you're listening right now, first of all, if you can't see me, I'm nodding because I want to be a part of this change. Thank you for sharing the story

about your father as well and what you promised him because I genuinely believe that so many of these issues can be eradicated if we approach it in the right way. When I moved to the US, I was shocked to see the advertising around pills and healthcare. Can you believe that? I could not believe it. I just could not believe that every ad in between a show

was about, I mean, the small princess or, I couldn't believe that that's legal. Like it just blew my mind. But here's the thing, what they don't tell you is the best selling drug has efficacy of 20%. And what people don't understand, what efficacy means, that means 80% of the people will have no benefit 20% of the people who do benefit will also have all the side

That means hundred percent of the people will be harmed 100% of the people will be harmed and 20% may also get some benefit. Yeah, what other industry you can get away with that I know how is that that? I know. How is that legal? I don't get it. How is that legal? That's the industrial, medical, industrial complex is what is really keeping us sick. And if we came together as humanity and we all were able to understand our gut and we

could all come together to really collect all the data that makes us sick. Imagine what will happen. Our children, our grandchildren will never have suffered for it. Now, I hope we can all come to help. I hope so too, Manam. My recommendation is that, you know, please sign up for a home if you can. And I'm going to actually make it, you know, give everyone a at our cost. That means we make zero cent from it.

I'm gonna offer that to all of the people who are listening to it, that they can do it at our cost. That are amazing. Thank you so much. And I highly recommend it as well. I highly recommend it. We need to get to that place. It's unbelievable what you're doing.

It's unbelievable what you're doing. So let's, I wanted to talk about that. To get everyone, before we shift the conversation slightly, I wanna end up part of the conversation on this point that you raised outside around some people may be listening and going, wow, Navin, you're super smart, which you are, you're super talented, which you are, but you're dealing with really big problems. I'm trying to solve small ones, but I love the example you gave me outside outside about solving small versus big problems. Yeah. So I think what we were talking about is it's so much.

First of all, it takes same amount of energy. If you're going to do something in life, make it meaningful, do something that you actually are passionate about, what are you willing to die for and the live for it? Imagine God forbid you're actually successful in doing what you're doing. Would it actually move the need? Would it help a billion people live a better life? And what we were talking about is it's easier to solve a bigger problem than to solve a small problem. And here's why I say that. If you start to take something a small problem like we give an example of finding a better

roommate, sure. And you tell someone, hey, what are you working on? I'm finding start to take something a small problem like we give an example of finding a better roommate. Sure. And you tell someone, hey, what are you working on? I'm finding a building an iPhone app to find a better roommate. People say, great idea. Go have fun. When you tell someone, you're going to make illness optional. People stop and say, tell me more. And I have seen the best and the brightest could their job join you because they believe this problem is worth solving. So I remember when I started this company, not being a scientist in a doctor, I went up on a national TV and I say,

you know what, I think time has come for us to make illness optional. And I described what can we do. And I got a call from the head of IBM Watson. He says, I can build the AI for you that can do that. And if you can go, get me the data what's happening inside the gut. I'm going to quit my job. And I'm going to come and join you because this problem is worth solving. A scientist at the Los Alamos National Lab, who has been working in the federal for 15 years

Solving this problem calls and say, you know what? I can tell you exactly everything what's happening inside the people got I want to come and join you quit my cushy job come and join you because this problem is what's solving and Suddenly we had the best and the brightest coming together. And every VC starts calling and say, oh my God, what are you doing? Why are all these billion people joining you? And they want to give you money. So imagine what happened.

I never had to look for the talent, never had to look for money because we were solving a problem that was big enough that is what's solving. And that's why I believe anyone who's listening to just remember two things. If you know nothing about it That is the advantage you have and if you're solving something big the humanity will come together

Universe will align itself to bring the talent from all over the world to come to you No longer we are bound by the geographical boundaries a best in the brightest in India or Ukraine or London will come to help you because you no longer have to be in the same geographical location. And that's why I believe entrepreneurs are going to be the next superpowers. It is not going to be the nation states. Individuals like you and IJ and a small group of people are now solving the problem that only the kings and the queens and the aristocrates and so per powers did whether it is going to the moon or is solving the health care

problem solving the problem of the climate change is not going to be cure to treat your parasitity is going to entrepreneur like a lawn musk it is not going to be the solved by health care by you know Obama care Trump care Putin care is going to be the salt by health care, by you know, Obama care, Trump care, Putin care is going to be solved by some entrepreneurs saying, enough is enough, let's get rid of the diseases. Let's not, let's not just prevent it, let's reverse them. Right. And that is the kind of things. Education system is going to be solved

by some entrepreneur listening to this podcast and saying, I'm going to go out and solve that problem. There is going to be an entrepreneur who's going to go out and say, let's make enough of the food. So the food becomes abundance. And again, going back to how do you take the problem and finding out is it a symptom of the problem or is it a root cause? And I want to give one more example, Jay, because I want people to

feel super empowered. Because I want people to know how to think about the problem. So, for example, if most people will believe today that lack of fresh water is one of the biggest problem on this planet. You are an entrepreneur, you go out and start to think about solving that problem. He said, can I build some type of a nanofilter in a tube that means when you see, when you're drinking it, it actually shracts the microorganism and I can have the fresh water.

And you feel good about that you're working on the right problem. Until you realize that majority of the fresh water is actually used for agriculture. And you say, aha, what if I can change the way agriculture is done, use aeroponic agriculture, aquaponic agriculture, or even use the seeds that can use lightly salted water. Won't that fundamentally create enough fresh water for humanity? And you feel really good.

Until you realize that majority of the agriculture is used to feed the cattle. And you say, aha, if people want to eat cattle, the beef, can I actually create beef using the stem cell from the cow just like nature does? Nature starts with a single cell and multiplies and creates all the different tissues, skin tissue, the, you know, muscle tissues, eyes and the liver and the lung. If all you want to eat is muscle tissues, why create any other tissue? And now you can create just with a single cell, all the muscle tissues and you can have bio factories of beef or frog lag or chicken without ever having to raise a single cattle. And suddenly we worrying about seven billion people, now we have double the agriculture that can feed 14 billion people. And if you're not using it for agriculture,

now we have all the fresh water for humanity. Now imagine, understanding what is the symptom and what is a root cause. And if you don't understand the root cause, you always end up solving the symptom. Yeah. And that's because you're a problem first entrepreneur. We talked about that technology first entrepreneurs versus problem first entrepreneurs. Too many people are looking at technology and saying, oh, this can be cool. Yeah. Like this would work. This would be fun. But actually, when you're starting at the root.

Yeah. And so if you're listening to this, if you're on entrepreneur already, you want to be an entrepreneur, you're an aspiring one, whichever position you're in, please, please, please start by solving a root problem. Not only will it work more, not only will it have more people who are gonna get behind it, build that community, but it's actually gonna have impact. That's right.

And I just feel so good that, you know, there's never been a time in the human history where we're living in this decade of amazing innovation. The good thing is that in the next 10 to 15 years, half of the Fortune 500 companies are gonna go bankrupt. That means there is a room for each one of us to create a massive, massive enterprise. So if you wanna create a billion dollar company,

you solve a 10 billion dollar problem. And you and I both know those 10 billion dollar problems are the problems that are facing billions of people. 100% 100% well said, brilliantly said. So amazing, I want to move the conversation on to talk about there's this one interaction that I found when I was researching before this and that's why I wanted to point out specifically

and correct me if I'm wrong, sorry. So your son once told you that he was going to make more money than you, right? And you had an unbelievable response to this. And I think that has, you've really been able to inculcate these values that you have through to your children. Let's talk a bit about parenting and raising responsible young conscious adults. Yeah, Jay, first of all, thank you very much for that. Because if I look at my life and I see what are my biggest

accomplishments in my life, I would say that would be our children. Because it was easy for me coming from a humble background to be hungry and wanting to really do things that could move the needle. Our children grew up in a very affluent home. And it was a challenge for us to think about what do we do. And I remember having this early days conversation, me and my wife thought we could live in a small home and we will never tell children that we have money and maybe they would just essentially start to grow up thinking they have no money.

And I told my wife I say say, one day, hopefully, they will learn to read. That will all fall apart. So, instead, why don't we tell them, we have all the resources in the world we need, but we give them the values that we want. And it was very interesting that once we start, once that particular thing happened when my son oldest was 10 years old. And I was absolutely the top of my game. And when he told me that I could have

simply put my arms around him and said, good luck son. Instead, that was a teachable moment. I sat him down and said, I'm surprised you think of success in the way of making money. You will never be successful by simply counting the money. Your success will be based on how many lives you've been able to improve. And if one day you're able to improve more people's lives than I did, I will be so proud of you. And his response at that time was whatever dad, but imagine he was 10 years old and I remember when he was 17, he was at Wharton and he calls me one day and said, Dad, I have an idea. And I say, what? He said, Dad, you know, I've been thinking about it that I am going out. I meet so many kids at college, I go to friends, see my friends at Harvard and Stanford, a lot of them come from middle-class family and they all are brilliant, but they

never had mentors like you provided for me. So I'm going to start Cairo's, I'm going to start a club where I'm going to bring them the same set of mentors you had for me. So I can go out and get the same mentor for them. And that's how I'm going to help millions of people live better lives. And he remembered from the 20s, 10 years old, right? There's another, you know, obviously, graduate from Stanford, and then he's started a company, sold the company. And now he's so focused on simply solving real world problem.

He's solving a problem of affordable housing using technology. He's solving the problem of senior care. He's, you know, his belief is very simple just like you and I do. The Silicon Valley has lost its soul. It is now building the gadgets and the technologies for the sake of building the technology and the latest technology. When smartest people are building the Alexa enabled toilets, there is something wrong with that picture.

When there are people who are graduating with tremendous amount of student loan, people who graduate cannot find an apartment that they can pay first month last month rent. What did he do? He started a company where he is now saying instead of paying first last month rent, what if you just pay five dollar insurance and we insure that so you don't have to come up with the money upfront?

What if the senior care doesn't require the nurse to be at home? Why can't we ubrize it? So four or five people in the neighborhood can have a nurse and anyone who needs it presses the button, the nurse comes there Right, so really using the technology to solve real-world problem rather than saying I got a blockchain I got a cryptocurrency wake. What can I do now? Right and now second beg was really our daughter

she Actually gives run for his money he actually gives run for his money. He's as smart as they get. And by the way, anyone who wants to Google and he's probably just this month alone, he's on probably multiple magazines, right? Just really, really doing amazing things, but she gives them run for his money.

She went to Stanford. She's a Stanford STEM fellow, Stanford Mayfield fellow. She's on the youth ambassador for United Nations and she cared about women's education. And now she's working at the AI company to essentially remove the gender bias, a company called Pymatrix. And our youngest one is a senior at Stanford and just got selected to be a Schwarzman scholar and they only select 150 people around the world.

And I still remember a conversation with my daughter and the only reason I'm mentioning that is because I think many parents listening to it probably going to find it really fascinating. When she was 16 years old, she came to me and said, Dad, I know you love science and technology. I want nothing to do with science and technology to get used to it. I found my true passion and I'm going to pursue it. And most dead at that time would have said, sweetie, I'm so glad you found your passion. I want to help you pursue that passion. To me, that was not how I thought. I thought saying that is same as saying, look, I just don't have time to do whatever you want. Instead, I told her, I said, sweetheart, you're not letting dad do his job. She says, what is dad's job?

I said, dad's job is to expose you to enough things. You're too young to have a passion. You don't even know what you don't know. So how can you possibly tell me you don't like it? She said, what is it that he would like me to do then? And I said, glad you asked. I want you to go to Singularity University. I want you to learn about nanotechnology,

neuroscience, genetics, and computer science, artificial intelligence. And then come back and tell me, what is your true passion? And then you can pursue it. And since the dead, if I go there, would you promise me that when I come back, I get to do what I want.

And I say, as long as you go with an open mind, wanting to like and wanting to learn, you have my word. She goes there for four weeks and she comes back. And the first thing she say opened the door was, Dad, I made up my mind. I said, all right, sweetie, I gave you my word. What is it that you would like to do? And she said, Dad, I've decided I'm gonna be either

a neuroscientist or a geneticist. And I say at the risk of you changing your mind, would you tell me what happened? She said, Dad, you're so dumb. I'm in high school. And high school, I learn about all this stuff and I'm thinking, why do I care? Why mix things, the color changes and I look at all this stuff and say, what would I ever do with this thing? When I went to Singularity University, I realized I always cared about women.

How can I help women's life live better life if I don't know how their brain works? I don't know how can I improve their health if I don't know what genetics is. So I realized science and technology is simply the tools in my tool chest for me to do what I want to do. Right? Guess what happened? She graduated and now she's working in AI to do what? To remove the gender bias in hiring.

Did exactly what she wanted to do, but using the technology to solve that problem. And that to me is the key is finding something you're passionate about, but making sure you get enough tools in your tool chest. Because if you only have hammer, everything looks like a nail. So if you have a wrench and you have a screwdriver, you can solve multiple problems using the right technology to solve the right problem. Yeah, and it's knowing which problem you want to solve

and what skills are going to help you do that in a big way. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. Because she could have gone and worked in women's welfare, etc. and wellness. And then, you know, absolutely. And my, you know, again, one more thing I was going to just point out. Yeah, dude. If you want to solve a small problem, go and start a nonprofit.

If you want to solve a big problem, create for profit company because profit is what allows you to help more people. It allows you to scale. If you can take thousand people make enough profit to get to 100,000 people, use that profit to get to 100 million people, use that profit to get to a billion people. If you're the richest man in the world and if you're losing money, it's only a matter of time you don't have money. Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that's really smart. And that's a really fascinating point because when I was young, I never really saw, and I wasn't exposed to role models who were full profit and changing the world.

And so I believe that to help the world, I had to be a not-for-profit. I believe to make a real impact, you had to work for a charity. But I love the fact that we live in a world today where you can have a poor profit company because of which you can actually have a deeper insight. So doing good and doing well and no longer mutually exclusive. Correct. In fact, to do well you have to do a lot of good and if you do a lot of good you can do 100% 100% and that's exactly what we should be encouraging. That's unbelievable. And you do so much on top of having said all of that, you still do a lot of philanthropy work.

We do, but you do a ton. So, you know, to me, that is about a short term thing you do because people need help. But I still dedicate my life to solving the problem, fundamental problem. You can keep people giving money to give them food and give them education, give them thing. But unless you can scale to get rid of the health care so that you don't have to be

sick anymore and you can change the way education is done so it doesn't cost as much money. What if all that can be done using software? Then you don't have the marginal cost of delivering education can become zero. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I literally, and I hope, and I hope now that we've connected today, I genuinely want us to be friends because I'm learning so much by sitting and listening to you. I genuinely feel you, you 100% have one of the most amazing minds in the planet.

Thank you, Jerry. Without a doubt. No, no, no, I'm genuinely, I do not say that without a doubt. And at the end of every interview, I do a final five questions. Okay. These are the final five minutes. Okay.

They're usually a bit more rapid fire. Go for it. You articulate answers so well. You're free to go. My number one question is, how do you remain a continuous learner? You are right now, like you are reading, you're studying. I want to know how does Navin Jane learn? So one thing I do is that every time I am trying to learn something, I go deep into it.

So I read probably 15 to 20 books on the same subject. If you read one book, the author's view becomes your view. When you read 15 books and all different point of view, you can create a view, which is different from all 15. And that is the key. So one of the trick I use actually is very interesting is that until two years ago, I didn't know anything about microbiome.

So what I did is I created a Twitter feed of every entity to do with every scientific journal that has anything to do with microbiome. And I have 50 or 60 of them. And every day in the morning, I get up at 4 a.m. every day and I go through my Twitter feed. I read all scientific journals. And you can do that for new science. You can do the the for cancer and you can start to do the for every single

thing. So I use the Twitter feed to learn about the subject rather than following Trump. I love it. Such a practical tip. Practical tip. Second question. You wake up at 4 a.m. I knew that. You have an incredible morning routine. Walk us through it. So first of all, I think that's really a dumb thing to do. You don't want to tell us? I tell you why. Following the habits of anyone doesn't make you them. Correct.

So the habits are actually the worst thing to follow. And I always say that, like Tony Robin takes ice bath every day. You can take ice bath three times a day. You're not going to make it Tony Robin. What makes you Tony Robin? So think like Tony Robbins. So I think you should have asked me how I think about a problem. But my routine, I mean, like going back to the question,

the main thing is getting up early. Every person who has ever made a difference in humanity has always gotten up early. Because the morning hours, there is a lot of scientific evidence when the first sunrise comes the amount of the you know in terms of brain is aligned with the light and you are starting to wake up and you have fresh thought. In fact when in the night by definition your circadian rhythm is off you both your bacterias have a circadian rhythm and you mind your circadian rhythm and as soon as it becomes dark you can temporarily light up the thing but your body and

your circadian rhythm knows it's not the same sunlight and your brain wakes up with the sunlight and again going back to the things I think. I agree with you. I agree with you. I know. Easter philosophy. You know there used to be a sun salute. Sun salutation, what was that? That was the way for people to know that now the body is waking up, you stretch and you salute to the sun and you get to learning and reading. The early morning, remember the Grokels used to be the time to learn when the sun rises. Absolutely, there's a beautiful quote from Martin Luther King where he said that, if you want a new idea, read an old book. And read in the morning. Yeah, read in the beautiful quote from Martin Luther King where he said that if you want a new idea read an old book

Yeah, and read in the morning. Yeah, I read in the morning absolutely Absolutely, and I agree to you by the way, I wanted to clarify I agree with you that copying someone's routines doesn't yeah But understanding successful people's routines inspired so when I ask you about your morning routine Yeah, the thing is you don't need to wake up at 4 a.m. anymore in the sense that you're good like you don't need to you don't need to wake up at 4 a.m. anymore. In the sense that you're good. You don't need to do any of this. You're doing it because you're passionate about it. This is to me is passion comes from, I think passion is for losers. Obsession is for entrepreneurs.

So don't be passionate. Be absolutely obsessed with it. Because what are you willing to die for? And find something, so the way you can ask yourself what is your calling is, close your eyes and imagine you have everything you wanted, you have a billion dollars, you have beautiful family, you have everything you want, what would you be doing? And if you do that now, you will get everything that you want. Yeah, I love that. Awesome. So, okay, let's do. Yeah, we kind of went, yeah, we went for two, but we, we, we went into a different direction, which is fine, which is fine. Three, what's your

big advice to young aspiring entrepreneurs? Dream so big that people think you're absolutely crazy and never be afraid to fail. You only fail when you give up everything else is simply a pivot. Perfect. Nice pivoting. I like it. Okay. Question number four, what's your biggest prediction for the next five to 10 years? I think we, we as humanity has never seen a decade like this. Everything that we have taken it for granted next 10 years is going to fundamentally change the way we live. The trajectory of how humanity is going to live is going to change in the 10 years, in the next 10 years. Everything from the way we dress, you know, having a personalized 3D printed clothes to sensors that are essentially going to be built into everything in our tiles,

the mirrors, our toilets are going to be analysed, as the mirrors are going to be built into everything in our tiles. The mirrors are toilets are going to be analyzing as a mirror. So going to be analyzing us are tiles are going to know exactly a room temperature perspiration where we are is going to analyze and say when we are depressed, what's going on when we are say everything is going to be analyzed. I really think this is one of the most innovative decades where the nano, nano bots in our body is going to be constantly monitoring our health is going to be repairing our tissue is going to be constantly monitoring our health, is going to be repairing our tissues, is going to be in a tissue is really bad,

we're going to be 3D printing our own organs. And you know, it's going to be just fundamentally the most amazing life we're going to live. Amazing. And question number five, when everyone listening and watching reads moon shots, what will they receive? What they will receive will be a mindset that says everything is

possible. The only thing that is not possible is the one that you believe is not possible. And everything else, if you can imagine it, you can create it. So go out and dream so big and dream of crazy ideas and don't look for anyone's approval and just know that if you're getting everyone's approval you're not thinking crazy enough. I love that, I love that you're such a living example of that. I hope that in our friendship you're going to help me even stretch my mind. Absolutely.

And I think more abundantly as well but thank you so much for coming on. It's an honor and I tell you one of the things I admire about you is your way of giving You do this not because you think this is a way to make money you do this because I know Because you want to inspire others to be better You're giving your time and you giving your energy to making this world better J And I salute you. I on is I'm humbled and I'm honored to be in your presence. Thank you. I'm so, so grateful and the feeling is mutual and I'm just excited. What I'm really looking for in my life as well is more and more mentors that are doing incredible things. And

even this conversation has made me realize the value that you have in playing that role in my life. So thank you so much. Thank you, Jay. Thank you. Amazing. So anyone who's watching today, I'm sure you've had your mind blown. I'm sure you've learned a ton. I highly recommend going back and re-listing to this episode because there were so many great stats, figures, facts, but underneath that, if you were really paying attention, there were lots of great mindset lessons about how you can rewire your mind for abundance. So make sure you do that. Make sure you also go and get the book,

Moon Shots by Navine. It's super powerful and all of these insights are just touching on the surface. Make sure you go check out Navine on Instagram, Twitter, everywhere on social media as well. Go ahead and follow him and we've got a volume. So we're gonna send everyone the link to sign up to Viam, highly recommend it

if you really want to make, yeah? If you want to make health care and it if you really want to make yeah if you want to make health care and wellness if you want to make it not obsolete but an option if you want to make it elective illness and elective and optional then please please please go and sign up if you believe in this mission thank you so much for listening and watching we'll see you soon When my daughter went off to hop trains, I was terrified I'd never see her again, so I followed her into the train yard. This is what it sounds like inside the box car. And into the city of the rails, there I found a surprising world, so brutal and beautiful that it changed me.

But the rails do that to everyone. There is another world out there. And if you want to play with the devil, you're going to find them down the rail yard. Undenail Morton, come with me to find out what waits for us in the city of the rails. Listen to city of the rails on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Or cityoftherails.com. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season, and yet we're constantly discovering new secrets. The variety of them continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share 10 incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation

of long-held family secrets. Listen to season 8 of Family Secrets on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do a flirtatious gambling double agent in World War II? An opera singer who burned down an honorary to Kit-Nap her lover, and a pirate queen who walked free with all of her spoils, haven't comment. They're all real women who were left out of your history books. You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast. They're all real women who are left out of your history books. You can hear these stories and more on the Womanica podcast.

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