On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Naveen Jain ON: Why Understanding Your Genes Can Greatly Improve Your Health & Questions You Should Ask Yourself Before Making an Important Decision

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

Today, I sit down with Naveen Jain to talk about how to thrive in your work space. Naveen shares his views and thoughts on why the people you surround yourself with play an important role in your success, the importance of cultivating curiosity for learning and to find solutions, and how your actions, no matter how small or big, can significantly impact everyone else.   Naveen Jain is an entrepreneur and philanthropist. Jain has a diverse business background and has founded several successful companies in different industries. Beyond his entrepreneurial endeavors, he is passionate about using technology to address global challenges. He believes in the power of innovation, entrepreneurship, and moonshot thinking to solve pressing problems in fields such as healthcare, education, and the environment.  You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 00:16 The three things we need to ask ourselves in order to find different solutions to a problem 14:04 Naveen explains why you need to surround yourself with people who will push you to become better 18:41 “Your imagination is the only thing that limits what you can do.” 24:07 How can we cultivate curiosity in the young minds and make the world a better place? 37:09 This is what happens when you spend your time and energy on things that you don’t enjoy doing. 45:35 Continuous exposure many ideas open many doors for us to find our passion and learn more  56:05 Give children as many dots as they can have so someday they are able to connect these dots and create their own canvas.” Episode Resources Naveen Jain | Website Naveen Jain | Twitter Naveen Jain | Instagram Naveen Jain | Facebook Naveen Jain | Books https://www.evvy.com/  https://www.viome.com/  Want to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum, I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bond-vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand

it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner. Where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to give back to you. Listen to Not Lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Life never stops teaching. It is us who stop learning. The day you stop learning is the day you start dying. The best selling author and most. The number one health and wellness podcast. One purpose with Jay Shetty. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world,

thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed, which is our mission here on purpose, to help you live happier, healthier, more healed lives. And today's guest is someone who's been on the show before, but someone that I always find fascinating, not just because of his insights or takeaways, but more so how he approaches problems, how he thinks about goals. I've always been really intrigued by how he can look at things from completely different

angles and perspectives. I'm speaking about none other than Navin Jane, award-winning book, Moonshots, creating a world of abundance. Navin's current Moonshot adventures are Viam and Moon Express, and as a serial entrepreneur, Navin previously founded InfoSpace, IntelliS and TalentWise,

and Viam's singular mission is to make illness optional, which I find so brilliant and I'm so curious about. Navin has been the recipient of many honors for his entrepreneurial successes. These awards include Entrepreneur of the Year by Ernst & Young and most creative person by fast company and top 20 entrepreneurs. Please welcome to the show, Navin J.

Navin, it's good to have you back on on purpose. It's good to have you back on the show. Well, J. First of all, it's always such a pleasure to see you. It's such a pleasure to be on your show. And I think your energy and your positivity always brings such a joy to my life. Thank you. Well, you're very kind. I meant what I said that whenever I sit down with you, you're one of the few people in the world, I genuinely believe, that approaches problems from the most unique perspectives and the questions you ask about the world

and solving the world's biggest problems. I rarely, people can talk about the theory of that, but I've experienced you do it. And I think that that's a remarkable gift. And I want to start there because I want people to experience that too. When you came up with this idea of making illness optional, talk to me a bit about how you think that way.

Because most people are trying to end illness, or most people are trying to avoid illness, but you talk about making it optional. So let's talk about how you create these moonshots and create these ideas. You know, to me, the questions you ask is the problem you solve. So fundamentally, asking the question is the most, I would say, the best skill you can ever learn as an entrepreneur. But as an entrepreneur, what most people somehow think that if they do something small, it's easier to get started. And what I learned is it is so much easier to do something audacious, something that's gonna change the trajectory

of how humanity is going to live, something that can impact the lives of billions of people around the world. And that is so much easier to do. So every time I start a new company, I ask myself three questions. Why this? Why now?

And why me? And why this is really simple. You start backward and say, God forbid, I am actually successful in solving this problem. Would it help a billion people live a better life? And the reason for that, it's not just because a philanthropic thing to do. It is really easy from a capitalistic point of view to see that if you can build any product, any service that helps a billion people live a better life, you can create a hundred billion dollar company. But you don't wake up in the morning and say, I want to create a hundred

billion dollar company. What should I do? Making money is simply a byproduct of doing things that improve people's life. So I'm going to repeat everything you do ask yourself, how is it making someone else's life better? Because if you do that, they become your most loyal customer. And if you have most loyal customers, you have a great business, right? But people somehow always think I want to make money rather than I want to do something that helps people, right? Yes, yes. That's why this. So in the case of Wyoming, we started thinking that, you know, we as humanity are suffering through this epidemic of chronic diseases, right? We call them with different names, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, depression, anxiety,

you know, call them Parkinson's, Alzheimer, or God forbid cancer. These are all the diseases younger and younger people are getting them. And literally every one of us during our lifetime is expected to have these chronic diseases. And it occurred to me that we as humans as haven't evolved in the last 50 or 100 years,

it takes millennials to change human genes. Then why is it in the last 50, 100 years, this epidemic is growing? And it occurred to me, if it is actually growing, this got to be a way to actually slow it down and reverse it. And our thought was, what if we can understand the human body at a molecular level and find a way to use, guess what?

Food as a medicine. What a new concept, right? To be able to actually understand what foods are good for you and what foods are not. People say, oh my God, such brilliant. And I can tell them that brilliant idea came 25, 100 years ago when hypocritical say, that food be thy medicine. So I am not inventing anything. I am reinventing.

And that's the beauty of the thing. So we say, look, what if we can understand and make illness optional? And why did we say make illness optional? Because I don't think I or you or anyone has power to eradicate chronic diseases. But each one of us has a power to do something about ourselves. That means being healthy is a choice. And that means being sick is a choice. And that's how you make it optional by empowering each person to know what they should be doing and what they should not be doing. Right? So now the second part of the moon shot puzzle is why now? Why now is very interesting in a sense that you have to ask yourself, what had changed in the last couple of years?

But more importantly, what do you expect to change in the next three to five years? That will allow you to solve this problem at scale in three to five years. And more importantly, this problem couldn't have been solved five years ago. Because when something could have been done five years ago, that means the technology already existed for someone to solve it. And the fact it's not being solved is

a very different problem. Right. So you see, can I intercept tomorrow's technologies to solve tomorrow's problem rather than use yesterday's technology to solve tomorrow's problem? And then the most important question in my mind is why me. And why me goes back to the question you asked, what question am I asking that is different from what everyone else in the industry is asking? Because as I say, the questions you ask is the problem you solve. So, I want to give it a couple of framework here because that's to me is a crux of why people fail. So in my previous company, Moon Express, we were, our mission is to go to the moon

and settle on the moon. And someday we can talk about why do that? But every time I say that we're going to go become a multi planetary society, everyone will ask the same question, which is, how are you going to grow the food in the moon? And to me, that question is generally a good question except the wrong question. Because when you ask a question, how to grow the food on the moon, the only solution is to find a way to grow the food. And what if you ask a slightly different question that says, why do we eat food? Just by asking, why do we eat food, we say, oh, only reason we need food is for energy and for nutrition. What are the different ways can we get energy?

Plants get energy from photosynthesis, a lot of bacteria who grow and radioactive nuclear waste, they get from radiation, they get energy. The point is now you have many more ways of solving a problem than simply growing the food that are different. So by asking slightly different questions, you end up finding solutions that no expert would have ever thought about,

because that was another problem they were solving, right? Yes. Coming back to Vio, the problem we were trying to solve was finding the way to make illness optional or finding the way to solve the chronic diseases. We noticed that every expert was asking the same question. They want to know about what's in my DNA or my genes. And somehow if I know your DNA or your

genes, we can solve the problem. Now, I am not a doctor or a scientist. It occurred to me like anyone else will tell you, your DNA never changes. So I am born with my DNA that I get from my mom and dad. Now imagine somebody did my DNA test and told me here is what you should be eating. God forbid I get 200 pounds. My DNA just till the same. Should I keep eating the same thing? Probably not. Now I get diabetes. My DNA just till the same. Should I change my diet? One would say hope so. But DNA hasn't changed. Now I get hard disease. My DNA hasn't changed and then I die. And you go to look at my DNA 10 years after I die, it's still the same. You can look at the DNA for dinosaur, right? So, if DNA can't even tell you your dead or alive, how will it ever tell you you're healthy

or sick? But what's always changing is not your genes, but your gene expression, call RNA or mRNA. And we thought, wow, why can't we measure RNA? And we didn't know how to do it. We didn't even know it could be done. But simply asking the question, we're not going to look at genes. We're going to look at your gene expression, allowed us to look at the problem so differently. And the second part that was very interesting to me was, I read a lot, just like you, just like our friend Jim Quik very interesting to me was I read a lot, it's just like you just like our friend Jim Quikko, others, we just read a lot. And I was reading all the scientific papers and it turns out every single disease is connected to something called microbiome. And for life of me, I don't understand what this microbiome was. And you can Google by the way, Parkinson's

and microbiome, cancer and microbiome, Alzheimer and microbiome, cancer and microbiome, Alzheimer and microbiome, diabetes and microbiome, anything you want is connected to microbiome and I'm thinking, what is that? If everyone believes that the disease is a cause or somehow impacted by microbiome and that 10 companies doing microbiome testing, then why is this problem not getting solved? So it's not a eureka moment I'm thinking, Navin, you are a moron, this can be a problem. And then it occurred to me to go back to the first principle. What question are they asking?

Well, it turns out, Jay, to date, every single company that looks at your microbiome is asking the same question, what organisms are in JS gut? What organisms are in Navin's gut? And there's somehow thought that will help you solve problem. Now, not being an expert, it occurred to me. I don't know what what organisms are in the beans gut? And there's somehow thought that will help you solve problem. Now, not being an expert, it occurred to me. I don't know what these organisms are.

They probably lack a tiny human being in my mind, right? Yeah. And I thought, well, what if the 10,000 different organism could be producing the same thing that's making me sick? So it's not about who they are, but what they are doing. Or the same organism can produce something good in your gut environment, and the same organism can produce something good in your gut environment, and the same organism can produce something bad in my bad gut environment.

So take a person, put them in good environment, good behavior, put them in a bad environment, bad behavior. So our thought was, what if we can find out what they are doing, and how they changing our human gene expression, we can solve this problem, right? So punish the sin, not the sin as Gandhi said. So the idea was, focus on what is it they're doing that's wrong, and then focus on that. And that literally was the concept behind vio. Well, it turns out all the story that we didn't know how to do RNA testing and no one has ever done it.

In fact, no one does it today other than vioIO because we found the technology at Los Alamos National Lab where they were doing a bio-defense project. And this was one of the project was to find out if we're going to protect our country against bio-terrorism. When the organisms are there, what they are producing, that's how they can create antidote for it. And they had developed the technologies on the license, the technology hired the people and build this thing to help humanity live better. And that's the only reason they gave me the license because they realized I am not simply building a company to make money. I'm doing it for the benefit of humanity. And since our taxpayer dollars will be spent in this, there is a perfectly good application of that.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I'm so glad, I mean, I've done the test myself and the results were fantastic as well. Very useful, very insightful. Yeah, and you know, I mean, we tell you what's happening in your body, J, right? So we tell you what's your biological age? What's your immune health?

And I don't know if you did the test recently, it tells you your heart health, it tells you your cognitive health, it tells you your oral health, your dental health, your gum health, and it tells you everything's just happening in your body. And then as you know, it tells you don't eat these foods and here is why. So for me, don't eat broccoli and brussels is part, even though everyone thinks it's healthy. And we say, no, your sulfide production is too high, don't eat it, right? Or don't eat broccoli and brussels is brought even though everyone thinks it's healthy. And we say no, your sulfide production is too high, don't eat it, right? Or don't eat spinach because your oxalate production is not good. Now you can tell here are the foods you should not eat and why.

Here are the foods you should eat and why. And then we go step further. Don't take vitamin B3 because your uric acid production is too high. Or don't take curcumin because your uric acid production is too high or don't take curcumin because your bile acid is too high. But you do need 22 milligram of lycopene. You do need 11 milligram of borburet. You do need 27 milligram of amylase and we go through every vitamin mineral, herbs, digestive enzyme, amino acid, probiotic and prebiotic. And guess what? We built a robotic compounding pharmacy where we make these capsules with only the ingredients in the doses that you need on the spot for each individual and ship them to every month. Now six months later they can do a

retest. So is no longer is it working or it's not working? It's no longer based on faith, it's based on fact. And so you can see the progress you're making. And I think to me what satisfies me, Jay, most is we have now analyzed over 500,000 people. And there is not a day goes by where we don't get emails or messages from people that you change my life. I sleep better, I have lost weight, I no longer have brain fog, I have more energy, I no longer have things like depression, anxiety, all the things, or even better skin, people who have acne or eczema. And to me, not being a doctor and watching changes people's life is what allows us to do

hard work every day. And just like you, I think, Jay, I get up every single day at 4 a.m. in my everyday, seven days a week, I get up at 4 a.m. and I jump out of the bed every day because I believe if I may have used the word, I think I'm doing God's work, it gives me joy. It brings me that pleasure that things I am doing is making people's life better. Yeah. That's unbelievable.

No, it's really special. And I know that that's always been your mission. And I want to go backwards for people because I think when people hear about these incredible ideas and that idea that you told us about now, the idea of asking the question of why do we need to eat? Like why do we need food? That's such a unique, rare way of thinking. Were you always like that in school? Was that a way of thinking you developed and built over time? Like let's go backwards a little bit because I think the way you approach problems is so different and hence why you're saying that most people would ask, like how can you live on the moon?

So how did you develop that ability? Was it something that was God given you were born with it? Is it something you developed and where did you start to develop it and when? Well, interesting thing is, everyone of us had this idea that we're born with certain things. And then you easy to blame someone else for all your problems. I am like this because it is, it is my genes. This is what I was dealt with the bad cards, right? That is an excuse.

Because remember, your genes are not your destiny. Like we talked about in your health, it is your gene expression. You get to control your gene expression by changing your environment, your environment controls your gene expression. Even though people say like, oh, I'm born with these genes and they are mutation that may cause Alzheimer. Now, think about it for a second. There are very, very few diseases that are genetic diseases and never want to undermine them. They have a special name.

They call rare genetic diseases. And the reason they call rare genetic diseases is because they are rare. Most other diseases are not genetic diseases. So when someone tells you have a gene that is going to cause you Alzheimer, I ask them a simple question. Am I born with that? Yes. So this gene is I am born with. It sits in my body for 60 years, 70 years. One day it wakes up and say, I think I completely forgot to wipe out

me. Your memory, I'm going to do that right now. It can't possibly happen. It has to change that right now, it can't possibly happen. It has to change expression of it. That means there has to be a trigger that causes it to do something. And if you can take the trigger away, does it matter what genes you have? So point is don't blame anyone except yourself. Including, I think I learned from you. Don't tell someone, my wife makes me angry or someone else makes me angry. Only you have that power to make yourself angry, right? So coming back to answer your question, nurturing or the environment changes who you become. And most people want to know, is there a particular event that happened that made you different, right?

But as you and I both know, life is full of experiences. Every interaction we have changes who we become. People think it's the last straw that broke the camel back. And we all know it's the straws before that that broke the camel back, right? So my point a straws before that and broke the camel back. So my point I'm trying to make is that in a simple words that every day the people you surround yourself with changes the way you think. So the most important thing you can do is to find the people who uplift you, people who believe in you, people who inspire you to be better,

not simply tell you you are good, they push you to be even better. Right? Every day ask yourself, am I better intellectually today than I was yesterday? Am I emotionally better than I was yesterday? Am I spiritually better than today than I was yesterday and grow every day? I'm Mungeshia Tikhler and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born,

it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're gonna get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it.

So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teens, cancelled marriages, K-pop! But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk too far. And my whole view on astrology? It changed.

Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save a retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet, roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two.

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or wherever you listen to podcasts. Yeah, and I could agree with you more. I'm really glad though, how you answered that question from a Jean point of view. I didn't expect to go down that road and I really liked that context of how to think about who we are and who we're becoming. And you are right that it's not one event that transforms our life for it's not one moment. But it's a collection of thoughts and a collection of people and collection of ideas. and the collection of people and collection of ideas, when you were young, what did you think big?

Did you always have these lofty goals or did you have to learn to do that, I guess, is what I'm getting, is because, and who were you exposed to? Like when I grew up, I always say that in my area, I didn't really grow up around anyone who inspired or motivated me in my field of people I met. But my dad would give me the biographies of people like Martin Luther King and Malcolm

X and people like that. And those people became the people that inspired me. So most of the people that inspired me were in books. They weren't anywhere else. Who were those people for you, where did you interact with them, how did you connect with them, and how did they change the way you thought? You know, obviously, as you know, I grew up in India, we were very poor. We didn't have food to eat, we didn't have place to stay. But the thing that none of us lack really is

imagination. And it's really let your imagination run wild while everybody's trying to contain you into what who you are and define you who you are and trying to protect you by telling you what you can't do, right? Everyone will say, oh, you are born in a poor family, your destiny is pre-written. You can at the most become an accountant and go find a government job that'll actually be there for your rest of your life. Anything you're trying, other than that,

is you're going down the wrong path and out of purely a good intention to protect you, they actually want to contain you to say that is not possible for you. So they're limiting your belief. And what really interesting I found was my mom just wasn't un, you know, she's alive, she's just unbelievable amount of faith in me. So my dad will say, you know, you will never go anywhere. So why are you trying here? Just go get the damn degree in accounting or something so you can have a job. And my mom says, no, no, no, he is very smart.

He can do anything he wants. And then she would say, sky is the limit. And later I realize in my life that sky doesn't exist. Sky is simply a figment of our imagination and what she was telling me was in her own way, your imagination is the only thing that limits to what you can do. We create our own sky. Like when you go from here to the moon, you don't say, mom, I just pass sky, there is no sky. So point is we create these imaginary boundaries for ourselves. I come from this background. So I, this is my sky. I'm a woman, this is my sky. I'm a brown person, this is my sky. And everyone

creates the sky until you get there and you realize that was all in my mind. It never existed, right? So when I was young, I would look at the moon. And what really interesting to me was, I am looking at the same object that the richest person in the world and he doesn't look at it any different than I can. So I am that richest person in the world because I have the same power that they do.

And in my mind, it was about, there's nothing that I'm sitting here when I look at that star that anyone else can do any differently than I can. In fact, I can look at them better because I'm sitting in a darkness and this guy is so much more beautiful than in a sitting without the light. You can't even see the stars. As I came to the United States, and then I started to meet and learn from different people. And as I continued to grow, I started surround myself with people who had even bigger.

I thought I was a big fish in the small pond. Until I realized there was a big pond out there, and I was a small fish. And then I started to grow again. And I think a lot of the people that have, you know, inspired each one of us have been the people who have gone on to change the industry. Now, obviously, you know, today you and I probably know most of them and we met them, but when I actually were being inspired, I knew their name, but I never met them. Now we get to meet with them,

and now you can at least look at them and say, how much did they change your life? But I can tell you that the biggest inspiration for me, or biggest mentor for me, has been my own life. Life never stops teaching. It is us who stop learning. So just every experience we have, if we keep an open mind, we can learn from every single person we meet, even that homeless person, if you can give him five minutes of your time,

he will tell you about his life story, what got him into where he is, and maybe hopefully you will make that mistake. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, I've often thought that the people that are always learning in any situation naturally succeed in whatever endeavor they have. And when I'm hearing you speak about these ideas which resonate with me completely, like very strongly, I start thinking like today, the challenges that we're not always choosing effectively and curating carefully who influences us. Because there's just so much influence, I was reading a study the other day that said the average human is exposed to 74 gigabytes of information every day.

The average iPhone is 256 gigabytes and a fancy iPhone is one terabyte, which means that 74 gigabytes a day, you know, give it like less than four days and you're already at a full storage of an iPhone. That's a lot of information and it's hard to know what's useful, what's useless, what's a waste, what's an investment, because we're just inundated. How could you recommend to people to learn to filter and choose what to give? I'll give you an example. Like, a couple of years ago, it was like,

everyone's like, you have to be an NFT. You have to do this. You have to, like, you know, and then everyone's like, oh, you have to invest in the stock market. Because now it's this. And like, then it's like, oh, you have to be an NFT. You have to do this. You have to like, you know, and everyone's like, oh, you have to invest in the stock market because now it's this and like, then it's like, oh, you have to be an entrepreneur. And it's like, everyone's getting, oh, now you have to hustle.

We're in hustle culture. And so you see this like messaging. Fat messaging. Fat messaging that just constantly pushes people. Yeah. And because people don't know their own values and they're not sure about what they really want from life It becomes very easy to get distracted

How would you guide people into not getting distracted and knowing what is right to focus on? Well, I think you go back and saying Why am I doing it? Let's assume whether there's picking thing you want whether it's a NFT or a crypto or whatever How is that what I'm going to do is going to improve someone else's life? Would it improve a billion people's life because I bought NFT? If the answer is no, then why are you wasting your time? So to me, the biggest thing to learn in life is curiosity. If you ask me there is one gift you could give someone you love the most

and I hate to say that the biggest love I have there is one gift you could give someone you love the most and I hate to say that the biggest love I have for anyone this world probably be your children. Anyone I think, right? It's your children are the one that you know they give you unconditional love and you give them unconditional love and the biggest gift you can give them is that. So our job as a parent is not to take them to the water and make them drink. Our job is to make them thirsty. How do you make them thirsty? Is make them intellectually curious.

Once you give the curiosity to the children, guess what? They will never stop learning. They will always be learning. They'll always find their water and they'll always be drinking. And that's your goal is to make them curious. And what makes them curious is to constantly think about what is possible, not what is not possible. What if it was possible? And the two most beautiful word in English language are imagine and what if, imagine if this was possible, what if I could do it, right? And that's it. And then they'll constantly and become like a child. Why? Why? Why it can't be done? Why? Why it couldn't be done before, right? And asking why makes

you curious and that's how it allows you to dig deeper and deeper and deeper. If I may continue on that cha-jay, I want to talk about, you know, as I said, I have three children and I want to talk about them for many reasons. One is to show people what really matters in life. It's not just simply about leaving the better world for our children. It's also about leaving the better children for the world to continue to go where not only you get to push the humanity forward, you actually have trained them and made them curious enough for them to be able to continue to push the humanity forward. So I have three children. Our

oldest is 32. He went to water and when he was 17, he started his first company. And there was simply about helping young entrepreneurs as a nonprofit to help young entrepreneurs find mentors for them so they can be successful. And his reasoning was, my dad brought me mentors and these kids did not have that opportunity. So I'm going to create it for them. Now imagine what happened. He could call anyone in the world and say, I want you to help these young kids. Nobody sees no to helping someone. In the turn, he built one of the biggest network he could find of the most influential people.

So when he started a for-profit company, everyone wanted to be part of this, right? In fact, just today, my son was, oldest was an CNBC in Bloomberg, and announcing that he's solving this problem, that all his, all the kids of A's were suffering from. I go, there are two problems. I graduate, I can get a job and generally a decent enough job where I can actually find an apartment, but I don't have the money to pay first month rent, last month rent and security deposit. And he said, you know what, what if we don't have that and simply spend $5 a month on insurance and ensure the landlord so you don't have to have

a deposit and he started that company. Then he realized that everyone was complaining and say, that's great anchor. We keep wasting our money on a rent. We get nothing for it. Right. I got to buy a home. He started this company called built BILT, built rewards. And just I was posting on my Instagram, he announced today he raised 150 million at 1.5 billion pre-money valuation. The reason I'm talking about not the money is what he did is so phenomenal. He came up with a concept of a credit card where you can put a rent on a credit card with no credit card fees, no annual fee. Normally when you put something on a credit card, you pay 3.5% 2.5% he convinced the master master card to wave that fee for rent. And then he's able to now earn points on something you haven't paid anything,

and you can use the point to actually buy a home, down payment for a home, or use one to one on any airlines, on a hotel, on Expedia, on Amazon. You can use the points to earn the points on rent and with no credit cards. What's happening? Landlords love it because they are able to bill you on day one day to they have the money. You as a renter are not paying it die more and you're 21 day float to pay your credit card bill. In turn, you earn the points that would completely waste it. And now you can travel or you can use them for next month rent or you can use them a down payment and a home solving the problem that impacted all these people. In turn, he created a great company. Our daughter, that's amazing.

Our daughter Priyanka went to Stanford. Stanford is temp fellow Stanford may feel fellow only cared about women's Education women's health first company. She worked Removing gender bias from hiring using AI It started a company called heavy EVVY women's health company and just today Fast company recognized as the fastest and the most disruptive company that she started year and a half ago. So she's completely changing the idea of how women's health. What I did not realize was she told me is until about 20 years ago women want allowed to be in a clinical studies.

That means every drug we have were never designed for women. They only designed for men. And no wonder these drugs don't even work for women because they were never designed for women. They're only designed for men. And no wonder these drugs don't even work for women because they were never on a clinical trial. And she's changing that industry. Our youngest went to Stanford, became a Schwarzman scholar. And now he's solving the problem of home mortgages.

Right? Again, it doesn't matter the point is they find the biggest problem and they realize they can go out and solve it. And why is it? How did that happen? And you don't have kids yet. But one day you do, I'm going to give you some of the parenting lessons because I have 32-year-to-year. I'm very open to that. So here's what happens. These kids were growing up on an affluent family, unlike I grew up in a poor family We told them there are love for you is unconditional, but our approval is not That means I'll always tell you I love you, but I will never tell you I'm proud of you to be proud of you

You have to do things that make us proud of you and I told them that we will be proud of you that make us proud of you. And I told them that we will be proud of you when you do things that make other people's life better. That means your success is never going to be defined by how much money you have in the bank. It will be defined by how many lives you improve. They may, when they were young, they will say, whatever dad,

but guess what? Every one of them, remembered what dad wants. And they may, they want to make you that they're that proud. And I told them and I say, I'm proud of you. And you do the things that make us proud. We told them that their self-worth doesn't come from what they own. It comes from what they create.

That means you own a lot, but you haven't created anything. You're still a parasite on society, right? So don't still a parasite on society. Right? So don't be a parasite. An ultimate goal of the children was always for them to focus on what can they do and make them believe nothing was impossible. So I remember when they were kids from a bond, I was running a very successful company. And instead of when I sold that company and I realized they were very young, I had two choices. I could sit at home to say,

hey, my kids are young, I want to spend time with my family, which is a normal thing to do. It occurred to me, what would they be thinking? So imagine if I had told them it's not about money, but dad just made a lot of money and dad is now at home. When they go to school, what do they see? Dad's sitting on the sofa watching CNBC. They come back from school, they see dad is still at home and dad tells them, go to your room, work hard work hard finish your homework hard work is what it takes and money doesn't matter.

I watch my dad sitting on the sofa when I grow up I want to be just like my dad sit on the sofa and watch TV and because dad has money he can do that and that's what I'm going to do. Instead what they saw was dad started a second company. Dad started a third company. Dad goes crazy, we're going to go to the moon. Dad, no private company has gone to the moon, you're crazy. Well, let me show you how that's done.

Dad turns 58, dad wants to start a healthcare company. We're going to make illness optional. Dad's time to retire. Well, I haven't showed you how it's done yet. Point was they realized at the end of the day, the dad does it because he loves what he does. He doesn't care about making money. He does it because that's what brings him happiness.

And anything difficult can be solved. And that's why every one of them is taking on audacious challenges because they see the dad do that. So why we tell our kids what to do, we never show them what to do. Yeah, yeah. I mean, congratulations, by the way, and it's amazing to hear about these incredible new

companies coming into the world. So needed, so powerful and so beautiful to see so many purpose-driven companies coming into the world. So needed, so powerful, and so beautiful to see so many purpose-driven companies coming into the world, especially in a world where we're constantly hearing everyone wanting to build a billion dollar company and everything, which is just... It's such a great, it's great. It's great, yeah.

It's not, like, same, yeah. So by everyone who's listening to it, if I may say, should go to AVVY, and if you're a woman, please sign up for Evie. It's a women's health company using vaginal microbiome. In the reason I say that is, I want her to realize that these are the problems she can solve. Her generation is the first generation

that had a shot at solving problems that our generation failed women at them, and she can solve that. Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, no, we'll put that link into the show notes as well so that people can access it. I guess when I'm listening to you right now, you raised a few points then.

I was thinking that you gave the example of dad watching TV. And I was thinking that so much of our society today has been, and actually going back again, you talked about the two most important phrases, like imagine and what if. So much of our society today has become numb to curiosity and imagination

because we simply watch TV. Now TV and TV shows and movies can be incredible for imagination if we watch them in that way because the people that made them are very imaginative. The people that made them are very creative. But what's really interesting is that when we simply subject ourselves to sitting in front of a screen and let those images come to us and we don't use them creatively, we actually become numb.

Yes. And I find that the majority of media makes us less creative, less curious, even though the people that made it are curious and creative. Absolutely correct. So I guess so many people feel like at the end of their workday, because they wake up, they do something, a lot of people do something they don't love. A lot of people maybe do something they kind of like. And then by the end of the workday, when they get home, they just want to switch off the TV to switch off. And it's like switch on the TV, switch off your mind. And then that's how the next few hours pass. How do people find the energy, the ability to say actually you know what,

I'm going to use this time to be more curious, to be more creative because that's going to lead to a better world for me and for others. Hey, it's Debbie Brown. And my podcast deeply well is a soft place to land on your wellness journey. I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental health around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey from guided meditations to deep conversations with some of the world's most gifted experts in self-care, trauma, psychology, spirituality, astrology, and even intimacy.

Here is where you'll pick up the tools to live as your highest self. Make better choices. Heal and have more joy. My work is rooted in advanced meditation, metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma-informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves, the more we are able to bring our creativity to life, and live our purpose, which leads to community impact

and higher consciousness for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Big love, Namaste.

Not too long ago, in the heart of the Amazon Rainforest, this explorer stumbled upon something that would change his life. I saw it and I saw, oh wow, this is a very unusual situation. It was cacao, the tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen, or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun fight. I mean, you saw this tax of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex.

It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate. We're all lost. It was madness. It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle. And it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building

armed with machetes. And we've heard all sorts of things, and you know, somebody got shot over this. Sometimes I think, oh, all these for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions, wild chocolate, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The therapy for Black Girls podcast

is the destination for all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here, we have the conversations that help Black women dig a little deeper into the most impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children, our friends, and most importantly, ourselves. We chat about things like what to do with a friendship ends, how to know when it's time to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of perfectionism.

I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the therapy for Black Girls podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Take good care. Well, first of all, no one should be doing things that they don't enjoy. So I have a very simple rule in my life. As I said, I wake up at 4 a.m. and the day I feel when I wake up at 4 a.m. I'm not jumping out of the bed. That means I'm doing things I don't enjoy. So rule number one, when you wake up in the morning and if you're not jumping out of the bed, you should quit what you're doing because that's not your calling.

When you find your true purpose, find your, you know, not star. You can never, ever just lie down because you're so driven to solve that problem. If I may say, you know, a lot of people talk about passion. I think the passion is for hobbies. Passion is for losers. The true winners have obsession. Obsession to solve the problem. Not obsession about things.

Obsession to solve the problem. When you truly obsessed about solving a problem, you go to sleep thinking about it and you jump out of the bed wanting to do it. And that, to me is find something that you're willing to die for and live for it. Find something that you're willing to dedicate your life to solving and then solve it, right? And you know, a lot of people give up because there are any time you do something, there are going to be the times that things do not working out exactly what you expected.

And to me, that's the sign of your alive. Because the only way you know when you're alive, because you have a heartbeat, and the heartbeat goes up and down and up and down, and when it's smooth, you're dead. So if you're looking for a life, that's a smooth life, you're looking for a life of a dead person. Find things when they're going up and down that tells you're alive. When you are down, just hunker down

and know that the next beat is going to be up. And when you're on top of that beat, never become too arrogant because always remember, the winter is coming and winter shall come, right? And that is the life, is that most people spend their life thinking they need to make money. So they do something they don't enjoy. Guess what?

When they come home, they cannot enjoy because they wasted their life doing things they don't enjoy. And they turn the TV on, as you say, to switch off their mind. And now they're being bombarded with the most, if you're watching news, unfortunately, it's all about negativity. For many reasons, our mind are amygdala is looking for negative news.

So negative news catches our attention. And that's the reason the newscasters know to get your attention. If it bleeds, it leads. They want to talk about all the negative stuff. So you're bombarded. and now you're even more negative than you were at work. And the thing in life is to get yourself out of that mode, not only find your purpose,

but truly be grateful for the life you're living in. Many of us have culturally or sometimes religiously. We are told before you eat do the grace or do the prayer. Why is that? The reason it is, Jay, is that your body, when it's in the fight of flight response, it stops the digestion. You cannot digest your food because remember, the reason you body used to be in fight of flight response because the tiger chasing you. And at that point, body says, you don't need to worry about digesting your food. It shuts down your immune system by the way because you don't need to worry about immune system because you're going to be lunch for someone else.

Or if you survive, then everything comes down and back to normal. Today, we live in this world where when we are at work, our boss is stressing us out. We come home, your spouse is stressing you out, and your constant stress mode, and you constantly in fight-of-flight response. And then we eat food in the flight-of-flight response. It doesn't get digested.

Our immune system is not working, so we get more sick. And then we blame everything on the society. And all it takes is find the job you love. When you come home, be grateful for what you're loving family you have. Give them the love and in turn you will receive the love. And I was just reading about the new book, Jay. You gotta tell me about more about the book on this love. If you can go figure that out, everything changes because then when

you have love, you're always in the sympathetic, more, better sympathetic, more droughtonist sympathetic. Yeah, that's such a great answer. I love the idea that you're saying that we're living in a constant state of flight, of flight of flight, a constant state of stress. And so pretty much every activity we do is in a state of stress. That perspective of finding what you love is so needed yet, so hard, and also different at different times. Like I remember when I was at college and I work, sorry, even before college when I was at school, I worked ever since I was 14. My parents always wanted me

to get a job and I'm very grateful that they set that up. And so from the age of 14 I was working, I delivered newspapers, then I worked at a grocery store, and then I worked in retail, and then I was a tutor. I was always working and I never enjoyed going to the grocery store, but I learned valuable skills there that I still use today even though I don't work in a grocery store. And what I found is that I could learn, sorry. What skills did you learn?

At a grocery store, I, part of my shift was I had to, whenever the truck would come with a delivery, I would have to get one of these handheld palette pullers, go into the back of the truck, put it underneath the pallets, lift it back up and pull it out and then stack it. Now, I hate to doing that. I absolutely hate to doing that. And I'll try and avoid it any cost. But that genuinely, I believe, gave me the skill of the ability to do things I don't enjoy doing for something useful. Yeah, in the sense of like, I didn't enjoy doing that task.

I didn't love doing it. But there are so many things that you have to do, even when you're building your purpose. Of course. That you don't want to do. That's specifically the thing. You don't have a purpose. But you have a purpose. The grocery store, I didn're building your purpose. Of course. But you don't want to do that specifically. But you have a purpose. But you have a purpose. The grocery store, I didn't have a purpose.

But I at least learned to be able to have a discipline of when it's your turn, you've got to show up. You can't just tap out and say, I don't want to do it. And again, these are small skills, these are not. But I definitely knew, I pretty much knew everything in every aisle. Like I knew where it was. So if someone asked me, where do I find bread? I knew everything in every aisle. Like I knew where it was. So if someone asked me, where do I find bread? I knew it was all 21.

And that simple idea, like today, when I'm sitting down and interviewing or I have to prepare, I can pretty much sit down and memorize things fairly quickly. And I don't think memorization for exams is good, but memory is useful in life for so many fours. And so now when I read books, I can memorize what's on a page. I can get back to that page because I feel there was a lot at that time. So I guess what I'm saying is that even if you don't love what you're doing, you can

learn to love something about it. Love it. Love it because you can extrapolate a skill that will be useful when you find your purpose. And so I've found that a lot of jobs have not been I've worked so many jobs that are today I live fully in my purpose. It's much easier, but I've lived so many jobs that weren't in my purpose, but they've all taught me something that is now useful. But my point that is isn't I think what you say that I think we're just a double click on that is that even the job that you're doing, find something about

that job that you fall in love with. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I think we agree as well. I'm saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just want to clarify that for people. Even if you're doing something where you don't love the whole thing and you may not be in a financial position or a family position to quit your job, at least for now, look for the thing about it that you love. Yes. Because that will always stay with you

That's right and so I love the direction in which we're going and I'm glad that we're talking about life We're talking about curiosity. We're talking about how you set your kids up How do you think you would have responded or when your kids were younger and maybe they weren't so externally Successful and they they almost may have had some pushback. Of course. I'm wondering if the kids had any pushback.

Well, they did. Of course they did. Because I feel like I don't know any kid who doesn't think kids grow up thinking their parents are not cool. Yes. And then when they grow up, then they're like, oh no, my parents were right. They are much more cool than I thought they were. Can you tell us a bit about some of those moments where the kids kind of didn't agree

with your philosophy or theory and what did that look like? Well, a lot of these times when the kids, like for example, when we're talking about that your success is all about the number of lives you improve, I remember my oldest son said, whatever dad, and then he walks, you know, he says, that at the end of the day, money matters. And I told them, it only matters when you actually believe it matters. Because most of the time, you don't need much for it to matter.

After the basic needs are met, after that, it's all, it doesn't matter, right? He and I would, a lot of discussion say, I want to buy this pair of shoes. And I said, I don't think that makes sense for you to be owning a $200 pair of shoes at this point. And he said, that I'm going to go get it. And I'm going to go earn it. And I said, sure, if that's what you want to do, that that's what matters to you. Go do it. But I would rather have you spend that time in learning new skills, then trying to go do some menial job because you want a pair of shoes. And that was very interesting.

And I think maybe I wanna just expand on that. A lot of parents, even the successful parents would say, oh, I don't wanna give my kids things to spoil them. I want them to work. I want them to go do the menial tasks to understand what the money means to them. And I think to some extent, you know, people may disagree with that. My philosophy was very different. My philosophy was my job is to teach you as many things as I possibly can. And once you learn those

set of skills, those are the skills you'll have for rest of your life. That means instead of going out and earning money to pump the gas, I rather have you go out and take a summer courses. And I'll pay for it, right? I would have you go and do internship at some place where you can learn something and not focus on making money, even it's unpaid, but that's a skill you want to learn, go do it, even if it's unpaid. So it's always about learning, learning, and learning. And the best example I can give you is something, I think you'll find funny.

When my daughter was 16 years old, she came to me one day and said, Dad, I know you love science and technology. I have found my passion and that's what I'm going to pursue. And I just don't want to do anything to do with science and technology. I have found my passion and that's what I'm going to pursue. And I just don't want to do anything to do with science and technology. And at that point, most parents would say, Sweetie, tell me what your passion is and I want to help you with that. My response to her was, you're too young to have a passion. Dad hasn't done his job of exposing you to everything.

So you don't even know the things you don't know. How can you tell me you don't like them? So I say, so she said, that what is it that you want me to do that? And I said, sweetie, what I want you to go is to go to Singularity University. I want you to learn about nanotechnology. I want you to learn about genetics. I want you to learn about artificial intelligence. I want you to learn about everything.

And she rolled her eyes. And by the way, and that's the article I wrote on ink magazine, if you want to find it's called an entrepreneur versus his eye rolling teenage daughter. That's cool. I like that. Now, she says, Dad, I just, you don't hear a word I say. I told you I don't like science and technology.

And I said, sweetie, you don't know what these things are, so how can you tell me you don't like them, but here is the work, here is what I can do for you. If you promise me that you're going to go there with the open mind wanting to learn and wanting to like what I would promise you is when you come back, you get to decide what you want because I have done my job of exposing you to things and you get to decide what you want because I have done my job of exposing you to things and you get to pick what you want to do. And she said, Dad, if you promise me that, I'll go there with an open mind and I'll do that. She goes there, comes back and the first thing she opens a door, she said, Dad, I've made up my mind. And my first word side, remember, was, oh, yes.

And she said, I made up my mind, I said, tell me what you want. I said, the dad, I've decided I'm going to be either a geneticist or I'm going to be a neuroscientist. I shook my head and I said, sweetie, at the risk of you changing your mind, can you tell me what happened? He said, that you're so dumb. I'm in high school.

I go to these classes and science. I mix things in the change color. And I'm thinking, why do I care? Yeah. When I went to Singularity University, what I realized was, I care about, my passion is about women's health. How can I do that if I don't even know how their body works? How can I go change women's life if I don't even know how they think?

So to me, the science and technology simply the tools in my tool chest for me to pursue the purpose I want. Right. So guess what? If I had done what most parents have done, they would have she would have never been exposed to these things. She would have never found her true love and world would have missed out on a great entrepreneur. Guess what? When she graduated, she did first company using AI to remove gender bias, and now she's using AI to improve women's health. This is simply because we pursued her to follow, learn rather than simply do something that she wanted to do. Yeah, what I like about where this is going is that. And as you were saying this,

I was like, I need to talk to another guest that we've had on about this. I don't know if you know Dr. Gabel Matei and he's an incredible expert on child trauma and illness and everything. And I now know what I'm gonna ask him based on this conversation. I've always agreed with exposing yourself to as many ideas, thoughts, learning as possible.

And you made a significant and it's so funny that I agree with your daughter because I thought I hated science at school. Yeah. And then when I grew up and I started reading behavioral science and neuroscience, I love science. I love the science. I love the science. Science was about the brain. Exactly. Science was about like photosynthesis, which I didn't find interesting or it was about cutting a cell open and looking at the layers which I didn't find interesting. Exactly. And then I was like, but if I knew at 15 or 16 that science was about, you could learn about the brain. Oh my God. And how the brain works and how that, I would have been glued. I would have every every girl in the school would have loved you. Yeah. Everything would have changed like everything would have changed. But I didn't know that,

right? I didn't know that because the way we were taught a certain subject was so bait, not even basic, but it was so specific. Like plant, I've never found plant biology to be interesting. Not do I, but if someone told me about the brain, the human brain, I've never found plant biology to be interesting. Not by the way. But if someone told me about the brain, the human brain, I find it so interesting. And I can understand, I didn't have someone in my life who could have sent me to Singularity University, so I missed out.

But I can vibe with that. So I think exposing yourself to as many new ideas, more learning, rather than trying to get too fixated, too quickly, That's right. It's a really good lesson. And also what you're saying, that when children are growing up, my parents encouraged me to do so many things

that were uncomfortable for me. Yes. That actually turned out to be superpowers. And there were also things they encouraged me to do that were uncomfortable, that did not turn out to be superpowers. And both are okay. they encouraged me to do that were uncomfortable that did not turn out to be superpowers and both are okay. I remember my parents really wanted me to go to the school that I went to, high school that I went to because it was a great high school. And if you asked any kid

while we were in that high school, we hated it. But now when I look back, I am so grateful I went to the high school because I learned so much. And now I look back and I feel so happy that my parents pushed me to do that. Even with simple things, like my parents were really scared that I was going to be a shy kid because I was very quiet, I was very self-contained, I was very shy. My parents forced me to go to public speaking in drama school. I went for seven years to public speaking in drama school. Today my whole life is public speaking in drama school. I went for seven years to public speaking in drama school. Today my whole life is public speaking. And I always think about them, like if I didn't go and I didn't like going, I hated going.

It was so uncomfortable to stand in front of a teacher and learn how to speak and communicate. But today my whole life is based on communication. And I was thinking if my parents didn't push me, if my parents didn't encourage me, I would never be able to do what I do today. That's what I was, you know, I think you're not talking about that. It's not in your genes. It's the nurturing. It is what they gave you, the lessons, and made you uncomfortable. And sometimes what we find in life is that if you can learn to love the discomfort, the comfort becomes very easy. Yeah, exactly.

And to constantly move in that direction, that just because someone finds something uncomfortable, that we feel we think that if something's uncomfortable, we should avoid it. But the truth is that discomfort is where all the growth comes. And I again encourage people to try, I think the idea of trying more things is really. And being exposed to more ideas and more things.

And I think that's something we can. Can I have the dots more? Others you have no dots to connect. That's absolutely right. And I think, you know, we tend to find people who are just like us because that's what people want. But I think we learn a lot from people who are just like us because that's what people want. But I think we learn a lot from people who are unlike us. Absolutely. Absolutely. And they did a study at MIT which showed that

people were more creative, innovative, and productive when they knew people who didn't know each other. The idea that if you know people who know people who know you, you just create an echo chamber where you all have the same ideas and you share the same thoughts. Whereas if you have someone in your community who thinks differently or randomly or whatever it may be, it can spark so much more. I wonder this is the last area I want to talk to you about is I love the idea that you inculcated into your kids the idea of improving other people's lives, doing something good for others. How do you find, have you also, where you are aware also as a parent, about how to help them with personal mental health and their personal well-being? Of course. Because what we find is, at the moment we find either raw, we see people who sacrifice their own well-being for the well-being

of others, and we see people who are just struggling with their own well-being that they can't extend themselves to others. I wonder if you were a parent that was conscious of us, a mental health and well-being and personal well-being. Well, at the end of the day, there is no parent, at least I don't know of any parent who don't want their kids to be happy. So to me, that is just part of in loving someone unconditionally that you do anything to make them happy, or anything for their happiness. And I'm not suggesting you sacrifice. You know, go slightly tangent. There's things that in life that matter the most is that unconditional love that you can receive or the unconditional love that you can give.

And very few types of love that in my humble opinion that are unconditional are, you know, we may say we love our spouse unconditionally, but that is still, you know, it's not the same as the love between mom and a child or you know, that love It's just so strong. I mean, no one can ever say that and fact I think I last time I think when you and I talked about I may have shared this story that I still to me resonates the best there was this kid who wanted to join the gang and and the you know gang members said I don't think you're ready. And he said, no, I'm ready to do anything you want. And he says, if you are really that ready, what I would

like you to do would be to show me that you can do anything that needs done is to go take your mom while she's alive, cut her heart and bring the beating heart back to us. Then we know you can do this. The kid says, I can do this and goes there literally. Staps her mom, takes the beating heart out and then he is walking out, he stumbles and falls down. And the heart and the, he hears the beating heart says, son, are you okay? That unconditional love where mom says,

the only thing that matters to her was, are you okay? Not what you did to me. And that kind of unconditional love always mom says the only thing that matters to her was, are you okay, not what you did to me? And that kind of unconditional love always brings the tears to my eye, that mother didn't care. She simply wanted to make sure that my son was okay, right? Because his tumble and fell down, right? To me, when you want to do things for your children, sometimes the children may not think it is good for them and it is your job

to be an adult and say in a long term it is going to be good for you whether it is sending you to the school or speech you know going to the public speaking but at the same time you wanting them to be a mini version of you is where I think parents go wrong. The kids should not be molded to be another mini me. Right? And then mini me concept happens more often than we want. The kids of the lawyer become lawyer. The kids of the doctor become doctor. Kids of the teacher become teacher because they all try to make them to be themselves. But I think you and I both agree that our job is to expose them to as many different things as possible, give them as many dots as they can. So someday they are able to connect these dots and create their own canvas and give them

that open canvas that they get to create and they can only create that canvas when we give them also the curiosity and imagination. So they can create whatever they want to create and give them that inspiration that is nothing they want to do is impossible. And the only thing that's impossible is the one they believe is not possible. That means they get to decide what is possible and what's not possible. No one else can decide. And the ideas when they are different, it's okay to be different. Because when people tell you it's crazy idea, those are the ideas that are worth pursuing. Right.

When someone tells you it's a crazy idea, it is an audacious idea that you can go out with. But what you don't want to be doing things is is to simply live a comfortable life and live a smooth life. That is to me, the day you stop learning is the day you start dying. Naveen, it has been such a pleasure talking to you as always. I want to let everyone who knows, everyone who's watching or listening know as well. If you want to know more about how Nevin thinks, grab his book, Moon Shots. If you're someone that wants to set goals, if you're someone that wants to set audacious

goals and trying to achieve them, Moon Shots is the book for you. If you want to find out more about your gut microbiome, the company is called Viam, V-I-O-M-E. We will put the link in the show notes as well. If you want to get a gut test done to understand more about everything that we just spoke about from that perspective. And the third is Evie about Women's Health, which we will also add into the show notes. And I mean, it has been a joy sitting down with you again as always, my friend. And every time I sit with you again is always my friend and every time I sit with you I definitely feel I can be a little bit more audacious. I feel that I'm always being mindful of my gut when I'm with you and today I'm also really, really happy that I feel the message that

has really come through is whatever we do, we have to do it to improve the world around us and continue to serve humanity a lot. So thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming on today. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. Well, Jay, I just said you're always been on purpose. And I just love spending time with you. And I hope to hope to see you again soon. Thank you. Thank you anyway. If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor Matté

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