On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Rich Roll ON: Facing Burnout and Leaning Into What Makes You Unique

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

For Rich Roll, being uniquely “Rich” meant feeling out of place. This led him down a road of drug and alcohol abuse and into the rat-race of entertainment law. In his early thirties, Rich decided he needed to change. He quit his job, stopped using and even committed himself to a year of celibacy. He began to rediscover what it meant to be uniquely him. On this episode of On Purpose, Best Selling Author and Ultra-Athlete Rich Roll and Jay talk about navigating self destructive practices, gaining wisdom from those closest to you, and pursuing work and activities that make you feel the most uniquely you. Please reach out on Instagram and let me know what make you the most uniquely you with #UniquelyMe!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Eva Longoria. And I'm Maite Gomes-Rajon. We're so excited to introduce you to our new podcast, Hungry For History! On every episode, we're exploring some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, beverages from our Mexican culture. We'll share personal memories and family stories, decode culinary customs, and even provide a recipe or two

for you to try at home. Listen to Hungry For History on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Munga Shatekler, and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in major league baseball, international banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable

happened to me, and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum. I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bond vivant,

but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you.

Listen to Not Lost on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you. Thank you for coming back every single week to listen, to learn and to grow. Now, I know that you're going to be excited for this one. I know this is someone that you've always wanted me to interview and sit down with.

And this is all someone that I've been dying to meet. And we finally, finally, finally made it happen. I'm so grateful for today's guest. It is none other than Rich Roll. Now, Rich Roll was named one of the 25 fittest men in the world by men's fitness and the world's fittest vegan by men's health. Rich is a globally known alter endurance athlete, wellness advocate, best-selling author, husband and father of four. At age 40, Rich walked away from a career in law, dropped weight and reinvented himself as an ultra-distance endurance athlete. The first of two people

to complete five Ironmans on five Hawaiian islands in under a week. It's crazy, literally insane. Here's also the host of the wildly popular Rich Roll Podcast, which I know you're big fans of. One of the top 100 podcasts in the world with over 70 million downloads. Today I'm excited for him to share his inspirational story of addiction, redemption, and optimal health. Welcome to the show Rich Roll. So good to be here.

Thanks for having me. So good to have you there. Nice to finally meet you. I feel like I know you have been following your stuff for a long time, so. I'm very grateful. The feeling is so mutual. And yeah, it's nice to finally meet you. I feel like I know you, I've been following your stuff for a long time, so. Well, very grateful. The feeling is so mutual. And yeah, it's always good when you,

that is why I do love social media. I love it for this, that when you meet someone, you feel like, I already know this person, we can dive straight into it. I gave you a big hug on the way in. I didn't even think twice about it. Lots of mutual friends. Yeah, exactly.

So I feel connected to you already. Oh, amazing, man. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. How do you describe someone who has done five Iron Man's and on five Hawaiian Islands? Like, how do you describe that person? I don't know.

You're the host. That's your job. I never know how to articulate what it is that I do. People are, what do you do? And yes, I've done some athletic things. But, you know, I'm a writer. I'm a podcast host, I'm a father. I do lots of different things. And I never really know how to answer that question

or fully describe. You know what I do? I think that's one of us today. None of us know how to explain what we do. My mom has no idea how to explain what I do. My wife has no idea. That's the way we do it. And even I do, and they're like,

yeah, what do you want your lower bed to be? I'm like, I don't know, like, when you're gonna get a real job. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But tell me about, you just said that your father, your father, or for what's the best thing you enjoy doing with your kids? Like what's been the last crazy thing

that you've done with them? Crazy thing. Well, we were in Australia for the month of December, so that was super fun. Spent time in Sydney and in Byron Bay. So I just like being out in nature with my kids. Just simple, you know, it's the simple things. It's not like, oh, here's the crazy thing that we did.

It's the little moments. It's the conversation in the car on the way to dropping them off at school or a walk with the dogs on the trails like outside my home, I live in a pretty rural area outside Los Angeles. So those are the, those are the things that I think are the most meaningful and anybody who's a parent, I think, can probably connect with that.

And any memorable conversations recently, where they've given some words of wisdom to you, or made you add an awakening, or anything like that. Trust me, my biggest teachers, you know, my 16 year old right now is, is really handing it to me. I think that I've got my spiritual program dialed in and that I have transcended so many of my character defects. They say, I'm long time in recovery for alcoholism. One of the catch phrases is, if you want to confront your character defects, get into a relationship. And I would up that ante by saying,

have a 16 year old daughter. And she would tell you exactly where you're at. And I feel like God or the universe, or however you want to describe your higher power, kind of puts in your path, these kinds of teachers who will challenge you in ways that you didn't anticipate. My 16 year old daughter certainly does that.

She knows how to press my buttons and we get into it daily. It's great for both of us, but it's hard, man. It's hard being a parent. No, I have plans at some point to become a parent, but I can see and observe from other people's experiences how hard it is. So I'm making sure that I'm as prepared as I can be from that point of view before I dive into it. So yeah, I will come to you for some advice and tips.

Everyone's always telling me, like, where are you gonna write children's book? I'm like, I am never gonna write a book and I have to be a parent because I don't see there being a formula and when I speak to parents, they're always very open about the fact of just, it's a new learning curve every day and every day. Yeah, so awesome. And your wife is an incredible vegan chef

and cook and author. Yes, she's also somebody that kind of defies definition. She does lots of things. It's funny. She's written three plant-based cookbooks, plant power way, plant power way Italia. She wrote a book on how to make plant-based cheese called this, this cheese is nuts. Funny thing is, that's how people know of her is this sort of vegan chef. And she's like, I'm not a vegan chef. That was just one thing that I did. Like she would consider herself much more an artist,

a musician, a spiritual teacher. She has her own podcast. And her wisdom is profound. So I learned from her daily, she's very much my teacher as well. Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, I feel that way, but with my wife. Like when I met my wife, a lot of,

I'd been involved in meditation and spirituality for a lot longer in terms of time. And so a lot of people thought that she was not going to be spiritual enough to marry me. And it's like the jokes on everyone because she's like so much faster, faster me naturally and intentionally. And like all of this is so natural and easy and organic for her. Whereas for me, it's always been a work. Like I've had to work for any growth I've had spiritually or internally.

Whereas for her, she's kind of like just got this natural and exusional. Yeah, exactly. And it's fun to be around that. And it sounds like your wife has the same. So very much so. Yeah, very, very lucky. Yeah. Yeah, we upgraded.

It's good. You're lucky, but also sometimes you want to just relax. You know what I mean? And you'll be like, is that really what you want to be doing right now? Like she's always pushing me. And that's great. You know, I'm always growing because she's challenging me or, or she's sort of showing me where I need that growth. You know, and sometimes you don't want to always look at that.

You want to just not be reminded that you still have growth that can be had. So that's like the challenging part of it, but of course, it's a gift, right? And I would not have accomplished any of the things that I've done without having that partnership. Yeah, what do you do to relax then? I mean, I go into the movies, you know, I'm like, you know, I'm stuck with that. Okay, me too. What's your favorite movie? So recently. Ah, favorite movie recently. Well, like a good one, that is recent. I'm a big movie guy too, so more than TV shows. I see everything.

I can even find the good and the worst movies out there. Okay, okay. But I loved JoJo Rabbit. I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought,

I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought, director and really enjoyed that. Let's go back now. Let's talk a bit about how you got here. And I know you've told a story before, but for me, it's fascinating. And I think for my audience, we're fascinating to hear it. And please share any parts that you haven't shared before or get lost in it in your own

way. But your relationship with drugs and alcohol took you away from your athleticism. When did you get introduced to it? And why was it so captivating when intoxicating that it took you away from something that is so natural to you? Yeah, well, I think, I get the question all the time,

like why do you think you're an alcoholic? And you can kind of chase that answer to your, for the rest of your life. And I'm not sure you can ever get a completely satisfactory answer. I am an alcoholic because I am. I'm more interested in what the solution is to the problem than trying to figure out what caused it. But I would say that from a very young age, I was somebody who was naturally pretty socially

awkward and very introverted. I had difficulty making friends. And I was the kid on the playground who was picked last for kickball. I felt like I lacked that rulebook for life that everyone seemed to naturally have. And I was unaware that there was any other way of living other than how I was living until I discovered alcohol.

And I think, you know, as I was growing up, I found my way into swimming. And that was the one thing that I could do that I had some natural acumen for. And I kind of doubled down on that and got better and better. And the better I got in swimming, the better I got in school. Like I'd learn these tools and these skills about, you know, what happens when you apply yourself and you're dedicated and you see progress in results. So by the time I was a senior in high school,

I was one of the, you know, better swimmers on the Eastern Seaboard and I got in all the great colleges and all of that, ended up going to Stanford. Number one collegial swimming program in the country and obviously an incredible academic institution. And that's really where I was introduced to alcohol for the first time. I'd gotten drunk a couple times prior to that

on recruiting trips, but that was where it really took hold of me. And I have very vivid visceral memories of that feeling of being drunk for the first time and having this sensation like I was being wrapped in a warm blanket. And the answer to every question I ever had was suddenly, you know, at my fingertips and I felt comfortable in my own skin and able to have a conversation and just, you know, capable of kind of navigating life in a way that I felt like everyone else naturally

knew how to do. And I thought, this is the solution that I've been looking for. I think that that's a common sensibility that you find amongst alcoholics and drug addicts. It taught me social skills, and suddenly I could go to parties and talk to girls and crack jokes and all of that. But it works until it doesn't work, and it stops working. Then it starts to denigrate your life and it didn't take long before it started to undermine the goals and the ambitions that I had because I was, I was and still am a very ambitious person,

but it really just eroded all of that. And it's a progressive disease, but over time it took me to some really dark and desperate places. Yeah, and that's why I think it is important to look at the cause, or at least why I find it important to look at the cause, or at least why I find it important to look at the cause, because there are probably so many people listening

right now or watching right now that are like, Rich, I'm not yet an alcoholic or I'm not yet a drug addict, but I feel the same way as you felt as a kid. I feel socially awkward. I find it hard to make conversations. I struggle. So they're actually on the precipice of going in the direction you went in. So it's almost like when we can stop there, we can actually go, well, what's the issue there?

Like why is it that so many of us growing up feelpicked last? Like you said, everyone had the rule book, right? Like it felt like everyone had the rule book, but the funny thing is no one did. But it felt like that to you. And that's how people who listen and watching right now, they feel that I have the rule book or they feel you have the rule book or they feel their friends have the rule book. How do we solve it even before that stage?

What solutions have you come up with there of what are other better, healthier ways to open up, to feel confident, to feel comfortable to win a people? Well, I think it then becomes about the language that you speak so well, right? It's an internal job. It's an internal journey that I think we all have to go on to figure out what makes us uniquely who we are. And, you know, those sort of natural discomforts that I think we all have on some level, whether they're a direct result of childhood trauma or just improper parenting or an unhealthy environment in which somebody was raised and grew up, all of these things contribute to that sense of insecurity or a lack of connection.

And I think the way forward, as opposed to trying to medicate through drugs and alcohol or other things, social media, shopping, whatever it is, anything outside of yourself to resolve or numb whatever emotional, just, you know, sort of, discontentment that you're experiencing is a futile errand, right? Like the only sustainable, healthy way of addressing that is to find a way to get comfortable with who we are internally. And I think it begins with a practice of self-love and a gratitude practice, meditation, mindfulness. There's so much mainstream acceptance

and recognition of all of these tools that I feel were lacking when I was growing up. I mean, I'm older than you, and I didn't go on the amazing spiritual journey that you have gone on. But I think there is now kind of an amenability to that that didn't exist in the 70s when I was a kid. And I think that's great.

So for anybody who's watching or listening, if you're feeling that level of discontent or you're experiencing an inability to connect with other people, be aware of when you're reaching outside of yourself to change that internal state. And instead, kind of direct that inward. And go on that journey instead, and I think it will lead you to a healthier destination over time.

Yeah, really well said. I think you're spot on because what I find is that it's also the narrative that children hear from their teachers, parents, and media. So I remember if you're a kid that spends time alone, teachers or parents would be like, oh, he or she doesn't have a lot of friends. Right. Rather than the narrative of, yeah, exactly.

Rather than the narrative of, oh, he or she's really comfortable being alone. Right, it's like the narrative of always negative or like if you're at a birthday party and only five kids showed up, it's like, oh, they're not very popular at school. When actually most of us would say, we probably don't have more than five great friends.

Yeah, I mean, I think society has created a very narrow box or checklist, and we're all expected to kind of fall in line and meet that criteria. And the truth is, is that the human condition is much more varied, and we need to celebrate those differences rather than judge them against the parameters of what's socially acceptable in that limited scope. And I think that's what we've done traditionally. And that marginalizes most people. So it's about broadening the aperture and understanding that we all have gifts and things that make

us uniquely who we are and to the extent that we can celebrate those differences or those unique qualities. I think that's also a very healthy path for. What have been your self-love and gratitude practices? Because I know you mentioned both of them there, and they're very important pillars in your own life. What's a great self-love practice? Like a daily thing people have done that's really high too.

I will preface my answer to this by saying that self-love and gratitude, these are not my natural disposition. My natural disposition is self-loathing, insecurity, resentment, anger, like all of that, right? And of course, that's fertile ground for alcoholism. So I have to work very hard to keep those negative emotional tendencies at bay and to cultivate, to bring gratitude

and self-love into my life. So it begins with very simple cheesy practices like repeating the mantra, I love myself, or even more powerful, what would somebody who loves themselves do in this situation? If I love myself, what would I do in this situation? What would I do? Always bringing yourself back to that.

Do you know Kamal Rava Khan? I don't know. So he's an amazing guy. You should have him on your show. But he just wrote a book called Love Yourself Like Your Life depends on it. And it's full of all of these kind of self-love practices, which are very simple, but I think very profound. Yeah. Cultivating gratitude involves creating a gratitude list every single day, writing down the simple things that you're grateful for, and then expressing that gratitude through actions and your interconnections with other human

beings on a daily basis. Tell me about an instance where you used, because you're right, like we see these everywhere, they're in articles, like you said, they're considered cheesy now, but we both know that they work. Tell me, tell me about a time when you use the first one, for example, that question of, if I loved myself, how would I do this? Tell me about an instance, what you've seen that profoundly affect your life

and with making a gratitude list. Tell me about a time when you're in that self-loathing, totally degenerative kind of position and then having a gratitude list, how that's made up. Yes, well, I think there's micro examples, like when you're choosing what food to eat, are you gonna choose the fast food thing

or the healthy thing? Well, if you love yourself, you're gonna choose this. So there's plenty of things like that, but I think in a very macro level, like I've leveraged these practices to quite literally change my life. Like I, for many years, was a practicing corporate attorney, very unhappy in that profession,

trying to jam this square peg into a round hole forever until I had a bit of an existential crisis kind of crash into a health scare that really forced me to take stock of how I was living and make some changes. And I made a decision, a very conscious decision at this time. It was right around when I turned 40, that I was going to engage in activities that made me happy, even if they made no sense, even if they weren't moving my life forward in a traditional career sensibility. And that meant like, I'm gonna go to the pool

in the middle of the day and go for a swim, or I'm gonna go trail running, or I'm gonna ride my bike, like at two o'clock on a Wednesday, when I'm supposed to be at work, and I didn't care what anyone thought of that. And I feel like that was very much, it was very difficult for me to begin doing things like that,

but that was how I was exercising or practicing self-love. Like, I'm just gonna do this thing that makes me happy. It's very simple. It's a very primal activity. And it doesn't have to mean anything. It doesn't have to be moving me forward in any particular direction, it's really just honoring myself. Little did I know

that repeating those behaviors over time would completely change how I live my life in every simple regard, but at the time I didn't know that, it was just practicing honoring myself. This is what it sounds like inside the box car. I'm journalist and I'm Morton in my podcast, City of the Rails. I plunged into the dark world of America's railroads, searching for my daughter Ruby, who ran off to hop train. I'm just like stuck on this train, not where I'm going to end up, and I jump. Following my daughter, I found a secret city of unforgettable characters living outside society,

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The worst part is that he can only be guilty for stealing the money from me, but he cannot be guilty for the mental part he did. And that's even way worse than the money he took. But I am here to help. As a licensed psychologist and survivor of narcissistic abuse myself, I know how to identify the narcissist in your life. Each week you will hear stories from survivors who have navigated through toxic relationships,

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I'm sure in your career, like the career path you had that you wanted to break away from, I'm sure there are a number of peers that wanted to break away too. I'm guessing. I'm almost huming having worked. Well, the legal profession is filled with people who are not exactly fulfilled. Right. Right. I assume that.

It's an interesting thing though. When you say, you know, I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm going to go do this other thing. You think they would celebrate you, but actually they get very angry. Of course, yeah. Because if you could break out, that means they can too, and they have to really confront that in themselves.

And that's my point. So if you had peers that, what was different about your ability to break out? And I'm not saying, and you're not an egotistic person, I'm not asking you to be egotistic, I'm asking you to share lessons. What was different in that you were able to break out

and do something that now you're more aligned with who you want to be as the future moves on versus the people that don't make that step. What is the difference? I think it was abandoning any connection to practicality and really living in faith. You know, it really tested my faith. The reason I was able to do it is because,

and this is with Julie's help, was because I embraced the fact that it was a spiritual journey fundamentally. So, yes, I left being a lawyer and I became the soldier endurance athlete and author and podcaster, but it wasn't because when I was a lawyer, I got out my whiteboard and created a wish list

or basically tried to create, this is my dream scenario for my life, I just started engaging in what I felt was more aligned with my unique blueprint. And with that, I would start pulling on the threads that would appear every day and I was tested. It was very difficult. We went through incredible financial dismantling, like I was tested. It was very difficult. We went through incredible financial dismantling. Like I was tested in every regard you can imagine. People saying I was crazy,

all of it, right? But by having faith and trusting in that sense of what was right for myself and learning to listen to and rely on that instinctual voice, I think taught me a lot about who I am, and also about resolve. And ultimately, I think that's why I was able to see it through. So if you look on the internet, it kind of looks like it all happened like this.

Like overnight, I just made this decision and became this other thing. This is, this was like, I mean, I've been doing this for, you know, 15 years at this point. And I got sober at 31. It really began when I went to rehab at age 31 and started to reconfigure my life based on spiritual principles.

And here I am 22, 23 years later, still learning, still growing, still making mistakes. So it's very much not an overnight thing. And it's all a spiritual journey. And what is your faith in at that time? Because it's almost like most people when they're in that transition, it's like you don't really have faith in yourself

or you may not have faith in your skills. Like is your faith in the belief that doing the right thing is the right thing either way or is your faith in the fact that you have your wife who's supportive? Like what is that faith in? Because I feel like that's the hardest thing for people. And I can only speak for myself that I knew that my faith was in,

the guidance of my teachers, my faith was in, the books that I'd read and the philosophy I believed in. And my faith was in, there's a beautiful, beautiful verse in a text called the Manu Smiti, which says that, if you protect your purpose, your purpose protects you. Right. And that was what my faith was in was that statement. And I was like, I'm gonna test that statement

to its limits. But that statement requires that you understand what your purpose is. Correct, yes, absolutely. Not much did not know what that was. That's what I'm saying, so what was your faith in? So, well, first of all, I will say that I was on a journey to discover what that purpose was. And I had a fundamental belief that I was on a journey to discover what that purpose was.

And I had a fundamental belief that I did have a purpose for me to discover. And I used endurance training as a vehicle for that process of self-discovery, because there's something about being out on a trail for hours and hours and hours and hours and on an eight-hour bike ride, your stripped of all artifice and the kind of low-grade suffering that you experience forces you to confront yourself in a very honest way, right? And you meet yourself in a place that you're not used to, and there's a lack of artificiality and artifice in that place where you can be really honest. You're wrestling with your soul at the most

profound level, I think, and that's what attracted me to this world, and that's what helped me answer all of these questions, getting comfortable in that crucible. But if I had to say what is the philosophical belief that kind of underpins that, I would say that we all are truly here. We are here to grow and we are here to, on a journey of greater self-actualization. And the closer we can approximate that place of self-actualization, the better position we are in to express our unique blueprint and purpose

in service to other human beings. And for me, it's been a process of trying to uncover what that is for me, and then ultimately bring greater expression to that for the betterment of other people. What does it feel like right now that it is for you compared to when you first started on this path, where's the evolution of that. Yeah, well, it's interesting because for a long time, it was like, oh, you're the vegan, ultra-endurance athlete guy. And it's like, yeah, I am. And I did those things. But that's just one expression of who I am. And the podcast, you know, much like your show has been about trying to continue that growth. And to understand that that I was able to do those things in the endurance world

because I understood that we are all sitting on top of gigantic reservoirs of human potential that remain untapped and I was able to tap into that aspect of myself in an athletic context and Express that but there are all these other areas of untapped potential in my life and in my friends, people that I meet, everybody's life, right? And I wanted to continue that growth curve and that learning process of tapping into those other areas, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, intellectually, socially, every aspect of what it means to be as self-actualized as we possibly can. And what do we do?

You've mentioned that a few times now. It's interesting that when you achieve something, your identity becomes crafted around it. So it's almost like, you were the healthy vegan dude and you did, and then I can see that there's a part of you that, almost, there's a part of you that's like, but that's not all of me. And I'm more than that. Yeah, I don't want to be defined by Marker.

Correct. How do you process that? Because I think a lot of people struggle with that, whether it's their past failures, or their past successes, that start to define everything about who they attract in their life, who they spend time with, what opportunities they come their way.

I mean, I'll give an example of something that's coming to my mind right now is when we had Kobe Bryant on the show. And Kobe started to talk about how like, and this was huge for me, he was saying basically no one believed that he could make TV or movies or media because he was a basketball player. They're like, what do you know about this space? And so when he was trying to sell these shows, no one wanted to buy them, and that's why he had to build his own studio.

And that's where he was building the studio for Dear Basketball, and he was writing these novels and these books that were then being turned into movies and TV shows and podcasts. So even someone like him was totally being pigeonholed and defined, how do you process that for yourself and how do you help other people process anyone who feels limited by their past failures, but also limited by their past successes?

Well, a couple things. First of all, that identity or whatever it is that's looming out there is just a story. It's only as powerful as you allow it to be, right? You always have control over that narrative, or how strongly you wanna be reminded of a certain identity, you can always recraft that. You only have control over your own behaviors and your own thoughts and your own interactions

with other human beings. You can't control how other people perceive you. That's none of your business. So if you're unhappy with the story that's being told about you, all you can do is act in contravention of that. You can't control how other people perceive that, but you can control the story you tell yourself about

who you are. So it's about becoming, you know, you hear the outage of like be the movie star and your own movie of your life, right? And understand that at any given moment, you, that these stories are just, they're drawn out of thin air. They're not real. This is a projection that comes from a collective imagination. So change the story

if you don't like it. And if you don't like this story that other people are telling about you, you can mute that and just do your own thing. So when I didn't, you know, when I didn't want to be pigeonholed as the vegan athlete, I just started a podcast and started talking about other stuff. And then seven years later, that's still a thing, but I'm known for other things now. Yeah. People will fall into line with based upon your behavior

and your actions. Yeah, with your identity, the way it is right now, what are you most excited to not be known for, but the acknowledged for what you're doing, like for yourself, not from other people, not for the external validation, but what are you most excited about doing for yourself? Just continuing to learn, you know, I just want to be a lifelong learner, and I think that growth curve, you know, always exists, and there's always people out there that you can take valid information and tools from to improve your life.

So I don't spend a lot of time thinking about how I wanna be perceived, but I think that, and people ask me all, oh, what's the vision? Where do you see yourself and fight? It's like, I don't think about that. I'm so fulfilled in doing what I'm doing right now, and the fact that I get to be on this personal growth trajectory by having amazing conversations

with incredible human beings. And then you get to share that with other people on it, impacts them. I mean, I don't know about you, but I can't think of anything more, you know, more gratifying, and any kind of career trajectory that would be more gratifying than that.

What's the most interesting thing you lend recently, whether it was a skill or a technique or a fact or a stat or some resets that blew your mind or some experience that just really changed the way you were thinking about something. That's interesting. You know, I probably go back to Kamal Ravakant, like him and his simple practices of learning how to love himself. Like, he walked me through these experiences where he really hit rock bottom emotionally

in a couple of different ways throughout his life and how these very basic, simple, easy-to-apply practices have transformed how he sees the world and experiences the world. I think is really profound because of its sheer simplicity and power. Do you think, based on that what you just said now, do you think that... Humans only change through pain.

I get that a lot. I mean, pain is the best motivator for change, obviously. And I think the biggest changes that I've made in my life have really been forged through pain. Does that mean I'm stubborn? I'm not gonna change until my whole world is falling on top of me and then, oh yeah, okay, I guess I need to modify that.

But it is amazing how human beings are wired that way because the possibility of change exists in every moment, right? And yet we seem incapable or challenged in our ability to leverage that, unless we're being pressured by some external force to do so. If someone's listening or watching right now, but is feeling like they're a safety, secure, stability, motivated individual,

they're like, oh, there's just too much risk for me. It's like, even the spiritual faith just too much risk for me. It's like even the spiritual faith, everything you guys are talking about, like that's just, you know, to live in that uncertainty, to live with that much faith, to push to that degree. What are your advice for them? Like, what would you say to that kind of... Well, I would say that security is an illusion. I think people that are focused on security have control issues. They think that they can control the world outside of themselves in their own behavior. And I think that that is a vast illusion

that is an epidemic in our culture. I think in every moment we have this sense of, I'm good, things are static. Like I can just stay in this place. And the truth is, with every breath, with every thought that we entertain, with every word that comes out of our mouth, we're either growing as an individual or we are regressing.

That's the truth, right? And there is no security. Everything is a risk. We're here for a very short period of time. So my call to action to everybody is, don't wait until you find yourself in some existential crisis because you've been living your life based upon some, you know, social rulebook that doesn't fit your own blueprint.

Instead, embrace what is uniquely you and have the courage and the fortitude and the faith to try to bring expression to that. It may be scary and it might contravene what your parents want for you and it might seem risky. But ultimately, I think the riskiest thing to do is to play it safe and live your life in accordance with somebody else's expectations of what you should do and be.

Conquer your New Year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast Podcast in each bite-sized daily episode. Time management and productivity expert, Laura Vandercam, teaches you how to make the most of your time, both at work and at home. These are the practical suggestions you need to get more done with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our bodies strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to before breakfast on

the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Danny Shapiro, host of Family Secrets. It's hard to believe we're entering our eighth season. And yet, we're constantly discovering new secrets. The depths of them, the variety of them continues to be astonishing. I can't wait to share ten incredible stories with you, stories of tenacity, resilience, and the profoundly necessary excavation of long-held family secrets. When I realized this is not just happening to me, this is who and what I am. I needed her to help me. Something was annoying at me that I couldn't put my finger on, that I just felt

somehow that there was a piece missing. Why not restart? Look at all the things that were going wrong. I hope you'll join me and my extraordinary guests for this new season of Family Secrets. Listen to season eight of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities. Like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident? Or can we create new senses for humans?

Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagelman on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How did you know that you'd found something about yourself that was uniquely you? You've said that a few times now, uniquely you. How do you know when something is uniquely you?

Because I feel like so many of us are either so influenced by everything that's happening, or we just, I feel like we've lost our ability to talk to ourselves and know that that's our voice. Right? Like it's like, most people when you hear a voice, they hear a voice in the head, they don't know if that's them or something else and they can't tell the difference. So what are those indicators or signals where you're like, yeah, that I'm getting closer,

even if I'm not there? It's a really good question. And I don't have like a simple pithy answer. Sure, sure, sure. I think it's hard. You know, I think you're correct in that we're so distracted. Our phones are always in our hands. There's always a reason to not be present with ourselves.

And the more detached we become, the more difficult it is to know what that internal voice is. So I think the process of trying to understand what is uniquely, you know, what is unique about J involves that looking inward process, right? It's about meditation and mindfulness and getting quiet and trying to, you know, spend time contemplating like, what was it that made you happy as a kid? Like, what did you like to do when you were left your own devices that now you feel like you haven't done it a long time or would be foolish as an adult to spend time doing? And maybe there's a lesson there for you to see, you know? I don't know.

I can't answer that for you. But I know that those answers reside within all of us. And in order to heed them or get clarity, you really have to have the discipline to carve out that kind of quiet time, solitude with yourself. What's the best advice you've received in solitude on the podcast? Is there anyone you remember that kind of you just felt embodied, solitude the best,. Is there anyone you remember that? Kind of you just felt embodied solitude the best or that kind of quiet of that. Yeah, I mean, there's kind of a couple of people. You know, of course, you have like meditation masters, like Sharon Salisberg, you know, some amazing things to say about that. I think maybe the most profound though in the most grounded way was you've all know

her already. Yeah, I love about how clarity is a superpower. And now, because we're so distracted, distraction is our natural disposition to just be clear and quiet, to have presence of mind, to have clarity about what you think about a particular thing. Is a superpower where that used to just be normal, right? Which kind of makes it easier to distinguish yourself because all you have to do is put the phone away,

learn how to be quiet, learn how to connect with your internal voice. And that makes you much more capable than the person sitting next to you. What was the conversation that surprised you the most? Was there anyone that just totally, not blew your mind, but just surprised you with a belief that maybe something you held true, but when you spoke to them, they changed your mind on it. Was there anyone like that that changed your mind on something that you thought was very concrete in your life or... That's a big question. Yeah, I think we're here. I'm always fascinated by our beliefs

and how they can shift. Like, I've always considered myself to be someone who... It's like, I felt like when I was spiritually immature, I felt like I had my beliefs and day with the answers, and then nothing else was true. So what I believe was true, and anyone else's answers were completely false. And then as I started to grow more,

you start to realize you know nothing. And you're like, okay, I don't know anything now because I'm not really sure about any of these beliefs. And then you get to a point where it's like, well, I have some values and beliefs. They work for me. And now I'm willing to trade an upgrade based on what I'm exposed to.

Because now I learn that I need to have a map or a guidebook or a rulebook that works because you need that for life. But then I hear someone say something and I'm like, oh, that is just open up my mind in a completely different way. I think in addition to that, what happens when you're confronted with a truth

that contravenes your worldview? The first thing that it does is it pushes that cognitive bias button and you're like, that can't be right because this is the way I see the world, right? So you feel the resistance coming up. So for you to say, oh, wow, I didn't think of it that way. And to embrace that difference of opinion or perspective, I think is the healthiest thing to do. So for me, it's less about, oh, here's an example, and more about trying to be in that place of empathy and compassion and openness. And to notice when I feel like my resistance creeping up,

whether it's somebody who has a different nutritional or dietary perspective than I do. Or somebody who was able to get sober and maintain their sobriety, by way of a protocol that is that odds with how I think it should be done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to just be like, the world's a big place. The human condition is multivariate.

I don't have all the answers. And to be able to sit with somebody who's coming from a different perspective and try to find mutual ground and meet them where they're at with compassion and with empathy. I think is really powerful. It's something that I'm always endeavoring to do with whatever guests that I have on my show. And I think it's what's sorely lacking in our culture right now. And I think if there's anything that I'm trying to do with my show and the example that I set with how I conduct my conversations is to say, look, if we want to move forward as a healthy culture, as a healthy society, we have to be able to meet each other in

our differences with compassion, with understanding. That doesn't mean that we do it with unhealthy boundaries, but we have to be able to have mature conversations about our differences, because this polarization and the separation that we're seeing and the unhealthy siloing of opinions, I think, is really polluting and denigrating our ability to move forward as a healthy society and as deeply concerning to me.

Yeah, I'm so with you on that. I think that's a great answer because, yeah, that lack of judgment and openness and just stopping yourself from, like you said, letting your controls creep in, that's probably the hardest thing. Because you've been on a train of thought or a school of thought since you were a kid

and it's built and built and built and it's got you to somewhere which is probably okay. And then all of a sudden someone comes and just surprises you with a note. What's been the best way you've found, apart from having a conversation in the podcast, have you found that people are able to create their openness in their own lives? Is it more travel? Is it watching things that you wouldn't watch? Like have you seen that? Like, how can we encourage that more for people to be okay with exposing themselves to opposing ideas without placing judgment on them? Yeah, it's tough.

I mean, I think travel is a big one, right? Investing in experience. People who have done that tend to have broader views and perspectives and more open minded, or more open minded about a variety of issues, then people just stay in one place and have their news feed. I feel exactly the same way because I find, like, as humans, we're so good at that, singular judgment. It's like if one person's doing one thing that you don't agree with, you don't agree

with anything they do. And that amplification of judgment is, you know, it can be really harsh for us. And I fall into that trap all the time. I make that mistake all the time where it's like, and we do the opposite too. If you like one thing one person does, you like everything they do. So we also do it with positives, right? Because it's simpler, I guess, for the mind to process. It requires less thought and less intelligence to either neglect someone based on one negative or appreciate someone based on one positive. It's more complicated to look at the gray area. So with that understanding then, how does that influence how you comport yourself on social media?

Right. There's this impetus or impulse, like when something is happening, there's a wrong in the world. You feel like you have a responsibility because you have this audience in this platform to voice your opinion or redress it or engage in the dialogue and the arguments that surround it. Like how do you think about and practice that? Yeah, my focus has always been like, I'm fascinated by timeless truths.

Like that's where I get my personal sensibility, my personal awareness, everything comes from things that are timeless. So I'm not the biggest commentator on world events. And I never have been. And that's not because I'm trying to stay away from them because I think they're complicated. I stay away from them because I'm like,

this is one element of another problem. Another problem. And I'm trying to address the root, which I believe is timeless, as opposed to the symptom that we're currently seeing. That's my personal approach to it. I'm not saying it's the right approach or the wrong approach.

It's the approach that feels more natural and uniquely j, to me, to feel like I want to address those which are timeless truths. They're roots behind what is really being affected and speak about those at a very human level. And so I've chosen to do that. And because I don't really know when a news report or anything goes, I'm not really even sure if what I'm reading is perfect or right or so I'm not confident on that.

So I'd rather stick to what I believe I am confident on. So that's been my approach. I'm willing to dive into it, but that's kind of, that's been my way of addressing it. And I don't feel the need to address what's happening right now, because I feel like we also have this obsession of we're going through the worst time or this is the worst, this is the worst, that. And I'm just like, well, I'm spending a lot of time

with people who are part of the solution, and I'm doing something about it. And I feel elevated and I feel confident that there are solutions out there because I'm spending time with people who are working on the solutions. So I don't really get a lot of joy from just talking about what's going wrong. That's because that's the basis of what I learned and how I was trained and also what I've been fascinated by because I've seen stories change, facts change, this change, that change,

opinions change. So I'm like, this stuff always is always changing, but there are some timeless truths through the roots of humanity's issues, like ego. Everyone knows that ego exists, everyone knows that ego is an issue. You can see it every day in every form, and I could comment on everyone's ego every day in the media, but I have ego too. And so it's knowing that and working to the root of how do we remove ego and help people overcome their ego. That to me is more fascinating.

For me, I'm not saying that's the most important work in the world. I'm just saying it's the most important work that I can do. And I think that was a big thing for me. And I feel that talking to you, like for me, becoming uniquely me was being very honest about what I could do. And so I don't see what I do as big or small. I just see as this is what I can do. And that's uniquely me.

And that may not be the biggest or the best thing in the world or it may not be the most needed thing in the world. But this is me and that's my offering and being okay with that. Yeah, I mean, I think, listen, I think if everybody was more uniquely who they are, the world would be a better place. Now the counterargument to that is, like, listen, somebody's got to take the garbage out,

and, you know, there's, of course, I understand all of that, but I feel like we are living in a desert of authenticity in the sense that everybody's so disconnected from who they are, and we're all reacting to this world and playing this game and trying to be these certain people, whether it's getting the fancy car or the good job or the right suits or whatever it is, we're living for these externalities, right? And the more that we invest in that,

the less connected we are to ourselves and to divinity, right? And to our fellow human beings. We are coming from ego. And we're living in this detached state that I think ultimately is a disease, you know? And so if there's anything that I'd like to speak to, it's about like that reconnection process. To the extent that we can be more connected to ourselves and to other human beings and Anything that I like to speak to, it's about that reconnection process.

To the extent that we can be more connected to ourselves and to other human beings, and to bring greater expression to that, the world then becomes, by virtue of that behavior, a better place. Can you have both how and why? What do you mean by that? When you're saying, because I feel like it's become very, that rhetoric's very common of like, these material things are taking us away from ourselves. Yet, we find that we all have desires,

we all have needs, we all have likes and dislikes. So my question is, is there a path to have things and get connected with yourself? Are they opposites? Yeah, the things are not bad in and of themselves. It's our relationship to them. We project upon them. And I think the problem arises when what we project upon them is a sense of identity or a contentedness or a crafted identity that is forged through these material items or jobs or whatever it is, right, that helps craft this narrative of identity.

And at the cost of that internal journey of like connecting with, what is truly, what is our heart actually saying? And understanding that that which we seek most, which is connection, happiness, contentment, you know, purpose, all of these things cannot be found through seeking in the external world. They can only be found through that internal journey. And our whole culture has crafted around these externalities. When in truth, what

we seek most is already in our possession. Yeah. And it's almost like, yeah, in the Sanskrit word is Maya, which I'm sure. Of course. Yeah. And it's like, you look at the, it's funny how many. Yeah. And it's so funny how many places I, it's so funny. My friend was here from London a couple of weeks back and he'd never been to LA before and I took him to Hollywood Boulevard just to see Hollywood. And he was just like, this is such a let down. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, you realize what Hollywood actually is. Yeah, literally. And it's like, you know, you have this dream of like Hollywood's an idea. Hollywood's an idea. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. And it's, and it's almost like the physical place

never lives up to it. And you see that with so many areas in reality, I remember so many places. People are like, you have to go to this place. And when I went there and I was like, oh, is this it? Really? And I think that's almost like the same feeling of when we finally acquire that thing.

It's that same feeling. But it's easier to say say when you've had the option to have it or had it. Of course. And that's the, you know, that's the... That's the... Coming from a very privileged place. Correct. No, and what I'm saying is that,

how does someone... This is the way I had it. So when I decided to become a monk, the way it worked for me is I just knew people, and that wasn't me or my friends, or it wasn't my family. I had been exposed to people who had it, and genuinely and thankfully authentically expressed

their sadness. And that was the difference maker. That the people that I had met that had it, whether I saw them in a conference or I saw them in a video, they opened up and said that it didn't fulfill their needs. Right, but here's the difference. You had the awareness or the self-awareness

to recognize that and to take action on that. But that truth, I think, is not a mystery to most people. I mean, here we are, we're in the Hollywood Hills. You look out here, there's lots of fancy houses, lots of fancy people and fancy cars. And in this town, you can't go a day without meeting somebody who's very well to do, and yet also very unhappy, right? It's in the atmosphere of this city.

And most people will think, well, he just needs to get the next car or the next job. Or when you have that experience yourself, and you get the thing that you've been aiming for, and then you have a momentary sense of glee or relief, you realize how quickly it fades. Instead of saying, well, maybe that which I see cannot be found in the external world, instead you think,

yeah, but now I just need to get the new Jaguar or the next job or what. You know, it's always that it's that like chasing the dragon thing that I think most people do all the way to their grave. And that's the great tragedy, of course. So for you, at a young age, to have the self-awareness, the cognizance to recognize that and take a contrary path, I think is unique. Yeah, and I owe it to just me, amazing people when I was young, and I think that's the biggest challenge now, and what I'm trying to solve it through my podcast, and even like this, like I just feel that if you're not exposed to alternative methodologies and pathways,

then you can never have that option. So I would never have chosen the path that I did if I wasn't exposed to it. And today we're exposed to a finite number of calls. Right, there was no on-purpose podcast when you were trying to make up this podcast. And that's the thing, I remember being in, I was at this, look, I went to one of the best colleges in the world. Absolutely, yeah. And when I was a senior thinking,

like, what am I going to do? Like, I had been a swimmer my whole life, and now I'm faced with the prospect of trying to figure out what I wanted my career to be. And I was baffled. And I remember going with the prospect of trying to figure out what I wanted my career to be, and I was baffled. And I remember going to the career office or whatever, I was like, great counseling. Yeah, there were brochures for consulting companies

and investment banks. Yeah, of course. And I was like, this is it. I mean, look, this was 1988. There was no internet or anything like that. There was the resources that are now available to young people to help make these kinds of decisions and the variety of experiences and possibilities that they're exposed to, you know, just would have been mind blowing to me at that time.

You've mentioned your wife a bunch of times throughout this interview as being such an important part of your spiritual journey. What's been amazing for both of you together on this spiritual journey? What have been some of the shared experiences or practices or methods in which you've both learned together and grown together? It's been an incredible partnership. I mean, there were so many times when I just thought I was a crazy person. I'd lend together and run together. It's been an incredible partnership. I mean, there were so many times when I just thought I was a crazy person, like I was not practicing law, not bringing in money out on my bike all day.

Cars getting repossessed. Like we couldn't pay even the smallest bills that we had. It was very humiliating and emasculating. And I remember being at my breaking point more than once and going to Julian saying, this is ridiculous, we have kids, I can't pay the bill. Like I need to go back to doing what I was doing before

and she would say, no, like we already know where that path leads. I don't know where this path that you're on now is going to lead, but I know that the answers that you seek and the resolution that we need ultimately will be found through continuing along this way. You need to do this. Now, that is extraordinary and exceptional, because most partners would say, what are you

doing? Crazy person. I'm going to divorce you. Yeah, exactly. Unless you get your shit together, right? And for her to have that kind of fortitude and that kind of faith to have my back, like, I mean, who gets that? You know what I mean?

Like what an incredible thing to have. So some people might be listening going, wow, you so lucky with you, you've got a wife who's amazing and people often say that to me as well. My wife is very supportive and amazing. But what did you, what do you think you did maybe early on in the relationship?

How have you continued to communicate? Either what did you do before that moment that you feel built such a strong bond with your wife that she had that belief and faith in you and that you had that for each other, if anything, and maybe nothing? And afterwards, what have you done to reciprocate with that love? So she knows that it wasn't not just that you've solved your life because that's not necessarily reciprocation.

That's just what you believe. What have you done to reciprocate and share that journey with her as a way of saying, I'm so grateful you did this. Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, to the first part of the question, I definitely married above my way class. So I don't know. I know what to tell, I definitely, you know, married above my way class. So, I don't know what to tell anyone, you know, like, I don't know what advice is in there

other than like, you know, try to do that, I guess. I mean, listen, you know, my wife is an incredibly strong person. And that was what attracted me to her. Like, she just had a sense about herself. So, I needed that energy in my life and that has benefited my trajectory. In terms of how I pay it back and honor her for that, I mean, that's a practice, just like anything else.

And she's just recently started this new business, plant-based cheese business. So it's now about me showing up for her in that regard and supporting her. You know, she's written these cookbooks. Like, I think there's something about our partnership where we can come together and one plus one is definitely larger than two, where we can co-create and make beautiful things together. But we also respect each other's individuality and independence. Like, we're not relying upon each other to complete ourselves.

You know what I mean? Like she can go and do her thing and I can go do my thing and it's all good. We don't, we're not like, we don't have like a poorest boundary in that regard. Like we respect each other's respective five thumbs. But then we can come together and do things cool. How did you mean in yoga class? Nice. Okay. Yeah, I was newly sober.

I was right out of rehab. I was in rehab for a hundred days in Oregon. Got out of rehab, confused, but understanding that I needed to do things differently. I needed a new peer group, social group. I needed healthy activities to keep me out of the bars and the clubs. And I found my way to a yoga studio in West LA.

And I went every day and met a whole new group of friends and people that became my social circle. So I'd known her for quite some time long before we dated. But I did a year of celibacy out of my first year of sobriety was celibate. And that was a very profound, powerful experience that I would highly recommend to anybody. And it was informed, you know, in large part because my relationships with the opposite sex was very intertwined in an unhealthy way with drinking and using.

And I had to disentangle that and get clarity so that I could become more self-actualized to be the kind of person that I would want to be in a relationship with. So that was incredibly profound. And then I met you, you know, basically I met Julie on the tail end of that one year, and I've been with her ever since. Did you ever ask her what she saw in you at that time? That she was coming out of a divorce. So it was never a sense like, oh, we're going to be together.

Like I thought, my next girlfriend, I was coming out of a really awful relationship situation. And I thought thought my next relationship is going to be with somebody who's younger than me who doesn't have a lot of baggage and it's going to be very simple. And I met Julie who was older than me, had two sons and was getting divorced. You know, the heart wants what the heart wants. I don't think either of us was really in a great place to be in a long-term relationship all of a sudden, but sometimes that's the way these things work out.

And yeah, we've been together for 20 years. I mean, I was like, what was that one year of celibacy? Like, what was the toughest part of that year? And how did you even get the idea or the resolve that that was going to be the antidote to the experience you are having with women in alcohol? when I was in treatment I was very aware that That you know, I'd reached a sort of nadir in my life

You know, I always thought of myself as this smart ambitious in my life. I always thought of myself as this smart, ambitious, upwardly mobile person I got in all these, I had all the, you know, the resume stuff to make me look good. And yet, here I was, this seemingly intelligent person who found himself in a mental institution. So my best thinking landed me in a place that I'd never thought I would be. And that was a profound reality and realization that I had to take to heart. And what that did was it created a willingness in me to receive help from other people. I never wanted to ask for help, let alone receive it.

But I was in a place of great willingness to do that. And it was impressed upon me that my relationships with women were dysfunctional and unhealthy. And I needed to relearn how to do that. And I was told that this would be a good way to do it, celibacy. And I was in a place of just saying yes. Like, if you tell me, if you're telling me that this will make me better than I will do that, rather than, well, how's that going to help, you know, like questioning it? That's what kept me drunk for a long time. So I just decided I was going to say yes to all of these things, and that was one of them.

And it was difficult. And what you realize is, is how much you, or at least I can only speak for my own experience. But the extent to which I was using relationships to medicate myself in the same way I was using drugs and alcohol. If I felt uncomfortable or in a state of dis-ease, I could seek validation or distract myself through the opposite sex. In the same way, a drink or a drug would do that. And I think just understanding that helps me like unclutch or detach from that dynamic in a way that helped me then figure out a better, healthier way for having that interaction. And I think when you say, listen, I'm not dating, I'm not having, I'm like, I'm celibate for a year. It's incredibly, like, it's a very powerful thing because then it strips away, like, basically,

it removes all of the kind of manipulation and ego that goes into like every interaction that you have with the opposite sex and makes you very aware of how much you do that. And also, it's like you're standing in your power because you don't need anything from another human being. And I think that helps you Reframe all of it and I would like I said like I would

Anybody who's who's challenged in their relationships to explore that in themself I love hearing that from you because I literally just in my book. I write about being set up for three years And I was I was trying to figure out how to explain it and express it in a way that I felt people were able to understand what was truly achieved from it. And it's funny, because in my literary, my book, I literally wrote about how the, one of these definitions of the monk term brahmacharya

in Sanskrit is right use of energy. And it talks about the amount of energy that is wasted on the ego Impressing the manipulation sometimes or the coercing of the opposite or same sex and And how much of that time and energy and mental space saved is so powerful for creativity and wisdom and insight and spiritual revelation and so yeah, it's good hearing you say, it gives me even more affirmation. And you become very aware, like you notice.

Oh, I'm feeling like I wanna do this, but I'm not gonna do it. Like you just create, there's a lot of self-awareness that comes as a result of that practice. Hi, man, we're in the last two segments of today's podcast. So we've got Phil in the blanks, which is a new edition that we've started. So I'm going to say this, you've got finished the sentences.

So fitness was always a spiritual practice. I like what it feels like to be who I am, changing your path can set you free or in prison. You're running the rat race will lead to your demise. Okay, I work towards greater self-actualization and service. Social constructs are illusions. Okay, so these are your final five. You have to answer in one word to one sentence maximum.

So your final five, the first question is, what have you been chasing in your life that you no longer pursue? You know, I would, like I said, like I'd love to say like, oh, external validation. How do you know when you are not following your intuition or you're going against your intuition? How do you know personally? You can feel it. If you're, if you're relatively connected to yourself, you can feel that dissonance. How do you feel? It feels like a disease. It feels like a slow creeping anxiety. When your actions are not aligned with your values, you know. I think if you continue to deny it, then the universe makes it known to you.

It starts knocking and then it knocks louder. And then it knocks and it's like, maybe you should stop drinking. You know, year two, year three, year four, then the cops get involved. And then you're not good. Yeah. Fair, fair. Question number three, if you could create a law for everyone in the world to follow, what would it be? Oh, wow.

I really do think the most important thing is to cultivate self-love because that's the foundation upon which all good things will come. Beautiful. Question number four, what is your best parenting advice if you have a piece of advice. Oh, there's so many. I mean, one thing I would say is, your job is to love your kids. It's not their job to love you. Nice, that's it. There's a lot packed into that. And there's a lot packed into that.

That's awesome. I can just leave it there. I'll leave it there. We'll have to go into that one part too. Okay, fifth and final question of the final five. What is the greatest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months? I think the thing in the last 12 months

that has really been impressed upon me is the sheer impermanence of everything. Like at 53 now, I'm starting to confront my mortality in a way that I didn't in my 40s. And when we see kind of the fragility of social structures out there, and now we're dealing with environmental crises and the coronavirus and all of these things,

like we tend to think like we're in a post history world, and we're just not. And as I age and confront my own mortality and see the kind of the impermanence of everything out in the world, you realize how not meaningless but how unimportant most of the things are that we concern ourselves with on a daily basis. Amazing. Thank you, Rich.

It's a very fantastic, amazing, thank you so much. It's a brilliant conversation. Thank you so much for sharing so vulnerable and authentically. I really feel like yeah, every answer you gave was, was, you know, truly uniquely you and and genuine to you. So, I really appreciate them and thank you so much and everyone's been watching. Please please, please go and follow and check out Rich Roll on Instagram, the Rich Roll podcast. Make sure you go and subscribe to his podcast, follow him on Instagram and anything that he said today or that we shared today in our conversation. Please please please make sure that you go and post to an Instagram with the quote, with the thought, with the idea, tag us both in the post as well. I love seeing what you learn and take away from these episodes. It will mean the world to me. Thank you so much for listening to On Purpose and I'll see you again next week.

This podcast was produced by Dust Light Productions. Our executive producer from Dust Light is Misha Yusuf. Our senior producer is Juliana Bradley. Our associate producer is Jacqueline Castillo. Valentino Rivera is our engineer. Our music is from Blue Dot Sessions and special thanks to Ray... Thanks to Ray... The world of chocolate has been turned upside down. A very unusual situation. You saw this taxocasian in our office. Chocolate comes from the cacountry,

and recently, Variety's cacao, thought to have been lost centuries ago, were re-discovered in the Amazon. There was no chocolate on Earth like this. Now some chocolate makers are racing, deep into the jungle, to find the next game-changing chocolate, and I'm coming along. OK, that was a very large crack it up.

Listen to the obsessions while chocolate on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I am Yomla Van Zant, and I'll be your host for The R-Spot. Each week listeners will call me live to discuss their relationship issues. Nothing will tear a relationship down faster than two people with no vision. Does y'all are just floppin' around like fish out of water? Mommy, daddy, your ex, I'll be talking about those things and so much more.

Check out the art spot on the iHeart video app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions. Like, can we create new senses for humans?

So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eaglement on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.