On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Selena Gomez ON: Befriending Your Inner-Critic & How to Speak to Yourself With More Compassion

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

You can order my new book 8 RULES OF LOVE at 8rulesoflove.com or at a retail store near you. You can also get the chance to see me live on my first ever world tour. This is a 90 minute interactive show where I will take you on a journey of finding, keeping and even letting go of love. Head to jayshettytour.com and find out if I'll be in a city near you. Thank you so much for all your support - I hope to see you soon.Today, I am talking to a good friend and celebrity, Selena Gomez. Selena is a globally and culturally celebrated artist, actor, producer, entrepreneur, and philanthropist of her generation. As a recording artist, Selena has sold more than 210 million singles worldwide and has over 45 billion global streams. Her upcoming biographical documentary, Selena Gomez: My Mind & Me, is out right now. In 2019, she launched her beauty line, Rare Beauty, exclusively with Sephora. As part of the partnership, Selena announced the Rare Impact Fund pledging to raise $100M for mental health services for individuals in underserved communities. Philanthropy and activism have been key pillars of her career and she's used her platform to advocate for many important causes. Selena has raised millions of dollars for charity including Global Citizen and Lupus Research Alliance.   Selena bravely tells her story about her long battle with mental health and how this led to her life mission to help spread mental health awareness around the world and provide mental health services for the less privileged. I get to deeply understand her inner thoughts on topics such as dealing with pressure of being a celebrity and the gossip that comes with it, finding self healing, embracing change, being one with your inner self, and living day by day being content, kind, and full of love to share. Life isn’t a simple journey, but despite the complications, challenges, and struggles, we can always find it in our hearts to tap into our inner good and be compassionate, especially to ourselves.   What We Discuss:00:00:00 Intro00:04:21 Selena Gomez: My Mind & Me documentary00:06:59 Sharing our darkest secrets with others00:10:04 Befriending your own inner critic00:13:39 Learning to be more compassionate towards yourself and others00:18:59 Taking control of your own story00:26:04 Getting asked frustrating questions00:24:39 No one is perfect, even celebrities00:27:40 How do you deal with imperfections?00:33:03 Areas in your life that made you who you are00:35:07 Embracing change00:39:36 Mental health awareness00:43:59 You have to be aware of people00:48:10 How do you deal with fears?00:51:23 What is your intention?00:56:13 Sometimes parents project perfection around their children00:59:57 Pain, suffering, growth01:06:09 Wondermind - mental fitness01:09:30 You’ll figure it out, keep going01:12:18 Missteps parents may have taken01:23:07 Producing the series 13 Reasons Why01:27:50 Selena and Mandy on Final FiveEpisode ResourcesSelena Gomez | WebsiteSelena Gomez | FacebookSelena Gomez | TwitterSelena Gomez | InstagramSelena Gomez | YouTubeDo you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on CalmWant to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart, Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. I am Yom LaVanzant and I'll be your host for The R Spot. Each week listeners will call me live to discuss their relationship issues.

Nothing will tear a relationship down faster than two people with no vision. Does y'all are just floppin' around like fish out of water? Mommy, daddy, your ex, I'll be talking about those things and so much more. Check out the R-Spot on the iHeart video app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on I Heart. I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions.

Like, can we create new senses for humans? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. There's blessing in the breaking even if it's just road rage. As simple as that to maybe losing someone that you love.

There is no perfect way to heal. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one of you that come here every week to become happier, healthier and more healed. And I am so excited to be talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book, Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait to share it with you. I am so, so excited for you to read this book.

For you to listen to this book, I read the audiobook. If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to eight rules of love.com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep or let go of love. So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book. And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour. Love rules. Go to jsheddytor.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more. I can't wait to see you this year. And you know that I love sitting down with guests who allow us into their lives, who allow us into their journeys to understand more, to help

us not feel alone, to help us feel connected in our pain and in our purpose, and to recognize that we have so much more in common, and that when we work together, we can truly find the light in our lives. Now, today's guest is someone who I believe does this with every step, every word, and everything she takes on in her life. I've had the fortune of getting to know her over the last few years, and I can honestly say

that not only is she one of the most genuine and kindhearted people I know, she's also just one of the most loving and soulful people who truly wants to change lives. I have to start the episode by saying this. I believe today's guest is someone who's extremely on purpose. I'm speaking about the one and only Selena Gomez, one of the most globally and culturally celebrated artists, actors, producers, entrepreneurs, and most importantly, I know to her philanthropists of her generation. As a recording artist, Selena has sold more than 210 million singles worldwide and has over 45 billion global streams. Her upcoming biographical documentary, which I want you to go and see, Selena Gomez, my mind and me is out right now. I got to see it

earlier. I'll tell you all about it. And in 2019, Selena launched her beauty line Rare Beauty exclusively with Sephora. As part of the partnership, Gomez announced the Rare Impact Fund pledging to raise this is outstanding pledging to raise $100 million for mental health services for individuals in underserved communities. Forlantopry and activism have been key pillars of Selena's career and she's used her platform to advocate for many important causes. Selena has raised millions of dollars for charity, including Global Citizen, and the Lupus Reaches Research Alliance. Please welcome to the show,

Selena Gomez. Selena, it is so wonderful to be with you. That was so nice. I felt very like emotional and I felt so, I felt so honored. Thank you for saying those kind words. I meant every word, I think whenever I've sat with you We've always had a conversation about purpose. Yeah, always had a conversation about service Mm-hmm always had a conversation that's reflective, but I wanted to start with this because I We are gonna talk about lots of deep and meaningful things today. Yes, but I also wanted to start with this because It's my first memory of meeting you and you you've probably forgotten this but at least for me I'm gone. Here we go. Okay, so you'd come over for dinner. There's a first time we met and I

Remember that we were about to eat my wife and made dinner for us and We say a prayer before we eat But the prayer is chanted in song somewhere in Sanskrit which is a language that a lot of prayers are in for my practice. And I remember having to do it in front of you and then afterwards opening my eyes and go, I just had to sing in front of Celine Vroom. Right. I actually do remember that.

Do you remember that it was? You were like, I don't know if I should sing in front of you. It was like, please, I thought it was beautiful. I thought it was amazing. And also just to say the food was incredible. I remember that more than anything. I love that. Well, I wanted to start off by just saying to you that I truly believe that this documentary is so special.

Genuinely, it is, it is powerful, it's inspiring, and it's the work that we so deeply need right now. And your voice in the conversation, the global conversation around well-being and mental health is the most powerful voice there is. It really is. Thank you. And so when you put out a piece like this and you let us in, it only strengthens the conversation across the world. And that's something that you're doing. So I want to just start off by

saying that from the bottom of my heart, I'm so grateful to you. Thank you for saying that. I think that is a huge part of why I decided to release it. After having an internal battle, I mean, daily at one point, maybe I shouldn't do this, maybe I shouldn't release it. This is too honest. This is too much of myself until I realized that ultimately it was meant for something bigger. It wasn't just about me.

It was about for something bigger. It wasn't just about me, it was about other people. And it took a life of its own and became what it is now, which I'm still nervous about. I'm still anxious about. But I think releasing it is a huge healing process for me. And it's me letting go of that version of myself. Wow. That's so letting go of that version of myself. Wow. That's so powerful to hear that.

I mean, when I hear you say that, that I feel like you're one of these people that you serve in order to heal and you give in order to let go. And that's such a beautiful cycle because I think often we think when we're going through things that the more insular we go, but you're someone who opens up and says, here it is. I think being in moment of my life, whether it was my health or personal life, friendships, relationships, I feel like giving myself completely to something is just the best way I can love. But I never wanted the pain that I endured

to put some sort of guard on myself, an armor, if you will. And I never let that happen because I still believe. And I still hope. I hope for love. And I hope for healing. And I hope for change. And hope for healing and I hope for change. And I never want to lose that. Of course there are days where I feel so far away, but I would rather continue to get my

heart broken and to not feel at all. That's the greatest sign of strength. I mean, that is such a powerful statement. I think with a statement like that, you're encouraging so many people to feel heard. I mean, I think most of us feel far away from those things. Right. And we're scared to admit that. I mean, you start the documentary with the promise of,

I'm gonna share my darkest secrets. Yeah. And when I heard that, I thought, wow, like I was thinking Selena, what was, why is it that when we share our dark, what happens when we share our darker secrets? Not just for you, but for any of us. When you're with your friends, when you're with your family, what does that do?

I think at first it's frightening, but I feel like if you surround yourself with people who support you and love you, you have to be careful with who you share your story with. I think that can be dangerous. Sharing something that maybe was really hurtful or sharing a story about your internal struggles to someone who may not be giving you the right advice or guiding you another way that will only lead you to more pain is scary. So first and foremost, I would say, making sure you surround yourself with great people. And then I would say making sure you surround yourself with great people. And then I would say learn everything there is to learn once it's out.

Once you say, okay, I'm dealing with depression. Then find out every single thing you can about what that means. And when you have a relationship with depression as opposed to allowing it to keep sinking and inside of you, it's a little bit more freeing. I think to understand yourself better, I want to know what triggers me. I want to know why I get depressed and start asking yourself questions to open up yourself instead of, you know, so easier, so than done though, I should say, but but instead of you know, keeping it in, I find that the biggest reward is letting it go.

Yeah, I think there's that statement in the documentary that says, you said your mom would always say, if you're afraid of something, learn more about it, and then you'll feel we'll go away or something according to those. She definitely did that when I was younger. I lived in Texas and we were huge with the tornado scene. That was what was happening and I was terrified. So I would bring like a cross and I'd bring like a big pillow and I'd lay in my bathtub because that's what I googled is supposedly going to help. And my mom would just kind of smile at me and she, the next day, remember, she got me a bunch

of books and it was all about thunderstorms and different clouds and formations and all this stuff. And she just told me, she's like, it's not that scary. You know, especially when you know that it's just a part of the world. And I guess they are still scary, but now I understand what happens. And yeah. But I love how you're applying that to depression, you're applying that to different things in your life. I completely agree with it. I mean, my favorite thing that I say in the documentary

is that I have bipolar, I just, I learn how to live with it and I just have made it my friend because that's truly what it can be to me now. Yeah. And tell us about that process of, when you first discover something like that, like you said, it's easier said than done. The voices are so loud. There's so much inner judgment. Yeah.

You know, our inner critic is so painful to live with. That's evidently. And now when you're saying, I'm trying to work on making it a friend, which is a beautiful transition, tell us a bit about that journey of inner critic to, inner friend. Well, to be honest, I've been to four treatment centers, and I have a lot of opinions on, you know,

rehabs, if you will, or, you know, places to go. There's a lot that I don't agree with, but what I will say is throughout all of it, learning lessons through dialectical behavior therapy or cognitive behavioral therapy, there's something that's always been embedded in me throughout all of those different moments in my life. And that was always to recognize when something was happening to me accepting it. And I think once I realized that this was something that wasn't going to go away, this wasn't

something that was going to be fixed by going to these places. It was more so, what can I know about myself? Okay, if I kind of go down this road, I'm going to get triggered and I know that feeling and I know how to avoid it. However, I go to therapy. I also have medication that I fully am on, that I believe in full heartedly. And it helps me stay balanced. But I still have to deal with it. I still have days that are pretty low and moments that I'm just too over the top. And I'm like, I want to buy everyone a house.

And I want to save the world. But I just have learned to kind of understand it. And the best part about that is also my family and friends learning how to live with it too. They can be great friends to me in that way. And that took a lot of time as well. Yeah, no, these are such, you know, I know that you do so much work in this space. But today when I'm hearing you share all these insights and they genuinely are such, you know, I know that you do so much work in this space, but today when I'm hearing you

share all these insights and they genuinely are insights, they're so powerful because even you just saying like I have to realize that I don't have to fix it or that it's not going to go away, like these things make difficult things livable with. And when we look at the seasons or we look at the weather, it's like, you know, it's going to rain one day and you know, it's going to be dark one day, you know, it's going to be sunny another day. And when you know that, you stop trying to fight and change it. Yeah. You can accept it, which it sounds from what I'm hearing from you. Yeah. I mean, it's taken me a long time. It's, um, that's not six years. That's probably 10 years in reality, but it really, it's really been interesting and I feel better and I feel great now that I can talk about it.

Yeah. The thing you keep mentioning today is letting go. And I think all of us are trying to know how to let go of old selves, old parts of ourselves, or parts that don't serve us anymore. And I remember when I lived as a monk, some of the areas that we'd live in, there were often we'd come across a lot of snake skin. And we'd always use snakes as an analogy of how we leave behind. So snakes don't break out, they don't rip their skin off, they slither out, and their skin just kinds of like falls away. Yes. And then we would naturally not find snakes, thankfully,

and find snakes skin. But that analogy was like really resonated with me. The idea that when we're shedding, when we're letting go, it's not a aggressive process. How did you learn to become compassionate and calmer with yourself? Because at first, we can really feel that we're trying to break something off. Yeah, I think I tend to blame myself when I can't let something go.

I feel maybe something is my fault or I should have done more of this or less of that. And it starts to become, you know, just like a really, I kind of turned sad. One thing I've noticed when I watched the documentary back for the first time, I didn't even recognize that girl anymore. And it broke my heart because I was talking about my body and my image and and I just hate that. I have ever felt those feelings. And I think because I have a younger sister, there's been this huge responsibility given to me in a way that has helped me. And I say this about my fans as well or people that have grown with me.

I've almost had to get back up every time, more so for them than myself. And that's something I've learned to really understand. It's healthy to wanna be strong for other people, but I needed to recognize I needed to be strong for other people, but I needed to recognize I needed to be strong for myself. And that took a while and it took things like making myself uncomfortable and changing my my thought process, changing the things I watch on TV, changing the music I'm listening to. Little things that I can adjust that will perhaps change my mood or make me feel better

instead of worse, you know. It is some of these small things, isn't it? Yeah, oh my gosh, I love scary movies, but I can't watch them all the time. I'm like happy and I'm like, guys, let's watch a scary movie everyone's so quiet. Why on earth do you want to do that right now? And you're kind of like, yeah, you're right. Do they manage to persuade you? Yeah, most of the time. But it was Halloween, yeah, you're right. Do they manage to persuade you? Yeah. Yeah.

Most of the time. Yeah. But it was Halloween, so I got my way for a few weeks. You did? Yeah. What did you end up watching? Oh, we watched Halloween. We watched Freddie Krueger, Nightmare and Elm Street.

Which one ruins your mood the worst? Like, which one makes you? Oh, my goodness. Probably like, hereditary. Something really dark. Yeah. But it was fun. It was Halloween, we were just celebrating. Yeah, no, I always call it cliffhanger chemicals.

Oh yeah. I feel like when we watch things that put us into states of anxiety or stress, we release all these cliffhanger chemicals. Totally. And now you're like, well, why can't I sleep? Yeah, exactly. Why am I having bad dreams?

Yeah, rather these like that. So my wife's like that, she can't. I have to, she was gets really excited to watch things like that too. I'm like, Rade, we can't do this. You will not let me sleep for the rest of the night. So it's so funny. Yeah, yeah.

But I think it's really beautiful to hear you say, there's these little changes because I think that's what people feel hardest to change. And I think when I watch the documentary, the greatest challenge you really empathize with is having to do this when every time you're in a car and then every time you get out the car, there's cameras, there's people, there's opinions,

there's, you know, that's something very few people can relate to. But I think what's so brilliant about the how the documentary is made is that you really feel like we're living that with you. And so you're like, wow, even though I can't relate to what Sillyin is going through, I can understand how it must be really challenging and really stressful. And so what's it like having to deal with all of this that all of us are dealing with

too, but you're dealing with it with an added layer of exposure. Yeah. To be honest, I don't know any different. That's what's really scary. Sometimes I think that's really sad. And other times I just think, well, this is what I've been given and this is the path that I want to continue to walk in. And I know any moment I can, you know, quit and walk away

and, you know, that's just not really how I was raised to be. So maybe if it had happened to me later in life, I would have had a different outcome, but because I was raised in it, I really had to learn the hard way on how to deal with it, on how to not give, if you will, that, like, bait that people want. And I mean, I think I do my best to try and eliminate these negative stories or other people illustrating my journey, it just I interrupt them with my truth and that's what I will always continue to do.

And that's what this documentary does as well. It's going to be me taking control of my story and no one can change that or say any different. I actually am so glad you addressed that because I've always found out with you that you always lead with love even in those areas and and I always am so in admiration of that and in awe of that because I see that whenever there's a narrative that whenever there's any narrative your your choice will

always be the lead with love and inject love into that and to re calibrate when did you find the strength to start taking control of that narrative? Because I think that's an amazing skill that today people needed more than ever. But when did you start developing the confidence around that needing to do that? Um, I would probably say,

I started beginning to gain that confidence when I went through a breakup. And that's something that was super public. But all of those things that I felt so bad about myself and just so terrible. Every day I wanted to debunk those feelings. I wanted to take control over that narrative because I did feel that way. But the greatest gift I got from all of that was me actually being honest with people, sharing my story and gaining the confidence to know I am enough.

And I actually worked really hard at being a good person and I know I'm a great person. And when people paint these unnecessary stories, it actually gives me pleasure to just combat it with love, like you said, or kindness, you know, I think it's actually fun for me because it is who I am. I can't waste my time, if I'm to be honest with everyone in this room. I don't want to waste my time being upset or taking in all of the negative things that I hear online. And I don't even hear it.

It's just what it gets really bad. Other people tell me and then I see in you main things happening and people talking negatively about other women and it just drives me absolutely crazy. And I think I'll just always be that kind of person. And I would say I'm grateful for my past

because it's made me a lot stronger. Yeah. Well, I want you to know that, you know, we see you for that. Thank you. Like, it is, it is, whenever you do that, I am completely mind blown because it requires so much self assurance, it requires so much commitment to your truth and then also for everyone else. So thank you so much for leading the way even in that. And that was a big like, no, it's so hard to do.

It's so easy to be defensive. And you've found, because it's your truth, you've found a way of sharing your truth without making it defensive. Of course. I mean, thank you. I don't know if I intentionally do it, but it works really well, so I'm sticking to it. Yeah, stick to it. Don't change it.

Yeah, teach it. Yeah, exactly. Teach it, the new masterclass. Yeah, no, I genuinely mean that. How many times a day do you have to switch tools and jump from document to document to keep up with your team? You deserve to collaborate in one single tool. So check out Coda, the dog that brings words, data and teams together.

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Once again that zip Recruiter.com forward slash o and p you are p o s e zippercruter, the smartest way to hire. One of the things that comes through in the documentary is, we're just getting full access. Like, that's what it feels right. Like full access at all times. And we get to see all of your relationships. And you get to see the relationships that are long-term, you get newer relationships, you get all these different people who are interacting with you and they're interacting with you in every element

like we get to see you straight after an interview, straight before an interview. And I could tell there was a time when you feel a bit at angst because you get asked poor questions or like you know and I could see that in you and that really hit me because the reason we set up this conversation, this podcast in the first place was I was hoping that it would be a place where people like yourself could share your true purpose and seeing you share on screen just how hard it can be to deal with just,

does it minimize the work you're trying to do? What happens? Tell me what happens when you're asked. I actually just feel like insulted sometimes. I sit in what I worked. I mean, I work so hard. I love what I do. I love my job. I love talking about my job. There's different facets of my job that I love talking about for different reasons and when I Sit down and I have to do press from you know starting at 8 a.m. till you know whenever the night ends it's It's frustrating. You want to spend that time talking about meaningful, meaningful moments. And I just, I wanted that to be in the documentary because I felt like I know that a lot of artists,

maybe not everyone, but I know a lot of artists and people in my position feel that way. And I hope that it will only, maybe shift that a bit and maybe stop asking people what word you associate with marshmallow and maybe ask them how they're doing. You know, maybe just having a bit of an inspiration to do more and be better. And yeah, it actually is pretty crazy because that happens, It's weird. Yeah, it is really weird. And it's interesting because I feel like there's such a trend

that's been created about asking people click-badi, buzzy, you know, moment questions. And then you think, well, this is a human totally with emotions and ideas and views. And I think often people think, oh, I've only got them for 10 minutes, I better just ask them all this stuff, but you forget that there's a whole person behind that. The document really humanizes you. What parts of you did you really want people to understand better or see more that you think they haven't been able to see over time? more that you think they haven't been able to see over time. Just I guess where I was meant to be. In the beginning, it really made me kind of sad. I wanted it to be a documentary that was really fun and about me doing this big tour and

instead I felt so bad because we were filming these really intense moments and then I had to stop filming. I think I really ultimately wanted people to realize that I'm not really that put together. I can be and I feel much better now, but I don't want people to ever look at me and think she has it all and she's figured it out and she is you know perfect or whatever. I hope no one thinks that but I just don't ever want to be that kind of public figure. I want to be someone that hopefully could be a friend that could just that could just disarm you from the celebrity-esque part of it. I just want to be someone that people can genuinely walk up to

and say, hey, I understand what you walk through I did too, and have a conversation. In the 1680s, a feisty, opera singer burned down a nunnery and stole away with her secret lover. In 1810, a pirate queen negotiated her cruiseway to total freedom, with all their loot. During World War II, a flirtatious gambling double agent helped keep D-Day a secret from the Germans. What are these stories having common?

They're all about real women who were left out of your history books. If you're tired of missing out, check out the Womanica podcast, a daily women's history podcast highlighting women you may not have heard of, but definitely should know about. I'm your host, Jenny Kaplan, and for me, diving into these stories is the best part of my day. I learned something new about women from around the world and leaf-healing amazed, inspired, and sometimes shocked. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm David Eagleman. I have a new podcast called Inner Cosmos on iHeart. I'm a neuroscientist and an author at Stanford University, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. On my new podcast, I'm going to explore the relationship between our brains and our experiences by tackling unusual questions so we can better understand our lives and our realities. Like, does time really run in slow motion when you're in a car accident?

Or can we create new senses for humans? Or what does dreaming have to do with the rotation of the planet? So join me weekly to uncover how your brain steers your behavior, your perception, and your reality. Listen to Intercosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose I've had the honor to sit down with

some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant. The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters. Kevin Haw. It's not about us as a generation at this point. It's about us trying our best to create change. Luminous Hamilton. That's for me being taken that moment for yourself each day, being kind to yourself because I think for a long time I wasn't kind to myself.

And many, many more. If you're attached to knowing, you don't have a capacity to learn. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. Yes, you're right.

Yeah, why is that important? Why do you think it's important that I guess for a long time, your people did consider celebrity to be perfect or maybe it was portrayed that way sometimes maybe it wasn't. But why do you think it's important for people to see that no one in the world, including me, anyone we're talking about, there's no one who's perfect. But why is that so important? It's important to me because I felt like I had to be when I was, you know, when I was going through relationships, I felt like I had to be a certain

way. That's why in 2016, I was talking about my body and talking about my appearance and talking about how, oh, everyone's going to see me as this Disney kid. No one's going to take me seriously. All of those moments, that's kind of where, yeah, that's where all the confusion came from for me. Yeah. Yeah. No, that does make sense. That's a really fascinating answer because yeah, it's almost like you've had to live that way. Yeah. And then you're kind of unpacking it for everyone and breaking down that image that's created.

And I think that definitely comes across. One of the things that stood out to me in that unpacking of the perfection element that you're talking about, we're so scared of imperfection because it reveals there's parts of us that are not ideal by some external comparison or by some internal trigger or some past experience where we have that feeling. How do you now deal with your imperfections? Like,

how do you feel about parts of you that are not perfect? I'm okay with that. I actually think a lot of who I am are just a few things that are not perfect. Even down to my laugh, sometimes I used to be insecure about my laugh or the fact that I'll always talk during the movie or, you know, I always do something minuscule. And I think little things like that make me happy because I feel like everybody else in the world. You know, recent, for example, very small example, but Halloween, I was a banana. And I genuinely just got the cheapest outfit, put it on and roam around Times Square with my friends

and have the best time. And everyone kept sending me these memes because everybody else kind of went all out. And maybe I could have painted my face and done a little more, but everyone looked really sexy and fun. And literally I could have painted my face and done a little more, but everyone looked really sexy and fun and literally I was a banana. That's basically sums up who I am to a tee.

And it was, that to me means that I don't have to be perfect all the time. I'd rather be that girl. Yeah. And how does that apply to work? Like how does that perfectionist mindset work in terms of like music or creation or acting? Like because that's beautiful in your personal life. It sounds like there's this acceptance of, you know, we can be, we can be more inflow. Mm-hmm.

But then how does that apply to like writing or creating or building? Like, well, I think how I don't, I, Well, I think I don't... Well, I always say this in any session, there are no stupid questions. I always have to say that out loud because sometimes I genuinely will think, well, what is this mean? And how can I unpack this and create a song from this? Or how do I unpack this scene and do the best I can. You know there are mistakes that happen in the studio and on set that actually ended up

becoming a part of it. You know me messing up a line actually ended up being funny and we kept it in the show or you know there's something I said in Aliric that was wrong and it ends up being the biggest hook that we've got. And I look for those moments and crave those moments. That's a great example. I love all of those. And it just, that's what feels like magic. Right? Like it's when the imperfection can somehow become a part of the process where you're just like, wow, this, this, this actually feels like we got somewhere. And so I think when we start, I love that idea, applied both personally and professionally because I think even the parts of ourselves that

we consider to be imperfect, the parts of ourselves that we consider to be broken, when you start seeing use in those, when you start seeing use in those, when you start seeing purpose in those, it's I always say that there's, there's blessing in the breaking. And every moment that you encounter in your life, even if it's just road rage as simple as that to maybe losing someone that you love, there is no perfect way to heal. There is no perfect way of dealing with something. It's more just how am I going to be a better person? How am I going to make the best choice for myself so that I don't end up angry at that person

on the highway so that I don't end up ruining my day because of what someone did to me on the 405. You know, I want to also say that how can I turn something like losing someone I so dearly love into, well, how can I celebrate that person and the great things that they provided me or that they gave me, that takes a lot of work. So I don't say that lightly, but I try my hardest to do that and I try to have my friends hold me accountable to reminding me, hey, let's try to flip this and try to turn it into something else.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think what I'm gathering from listening to you is that again, it's you're not saying I've arrived and this is how I think now, you're saying this is what I'm trying to practice. Like this is the approach that I'm mining in my own life and this is practice. Every day is practice. I even said it last night at the premiere. I was saying, I don't I don't have anything figured out. I'm definitely not like, I'm sold, I'm good. It's more just, this is a continuation.

And my story's not done. And I can't wait to find out what's going to happen next. And doesn't mean it's going to be easy. And sure, there's going to be bumps that happen. But I'm going to learn how to live with them. Yeah, as someone who's so committed to moving forward, what did it feel like going back to like your school and all these old places I won't give away too many

but in the documentary you go and visit. I love that. Yeah, what does that do? Well, going home is like, to me, it's untainted territory. Right. It is safe, it is simple to me, it's untainted territory. It is safe, it is simple and kind, where I'm from, it is all about, being together, loving each other,

I go home and people are like, welcome home, misgommas, they're not treating me any differently. And I enjoy visiting what made me who I am. And it always gives me the good sense of, of like, oh, I hope I can inspire people from where I'm from, because there's not a lot to do. Or I'm from, but I hope I can inspire just one person to do something bigger than that. Was there any particular place that you went back that almost gave you a special feeling or something surprised you that you're like, I didn't think this was going to be... Well, my snow cone place. So I really, I loved that place.

I would go with my dad all the time and my cousin and we would get the pickle snow cones with grape in it. And it would just be so yummy and amazing. And it just, you know, brought me back to when it would be so hot in Texas. And I was with my family and we would just stop there and sit outside for an hour and just talk and it was just the best. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's great to hear.

I think there's always, I have this park in my hometown. It's called Brumfield Park and it's still charming to me even though I don't think anyone else went to find it by charming. Did you like, okay? I know. But when I go back,

I know where I used to go and buy my ice cream from and you know where the truck would be. And there's all these special moments that you, that almost, but it sounds like again, like it sounds like it's not like you're like, oh, I missed that.

It's almost like that was a part of me and it's a beautiful thing. But now I'm happy to be new. And even today when we were just walking over here and we were talking about just you finding places that fuel you. Yeah. And it seems like you've become open to saying,

okay, that life is changing and transitioning. And there's new places that feel more like home than old places. I hate change. I really do, but I felt in the past year, which is pretty, it's pretty new. I have really, really embraced the uncomfortableness of change. And I think it's because I get so exhausted of the same thing over and over again. And it scares me, but I did learn that my world can be bigger. By being in a different destination, I work on my show, Only Murders in the Building,

it's in New York, where I shoot, and I've never, I've never spent more than a week or two in New York, and I'm there for months. And just that alone was an uncomfortable experience. But I loved it. And I loved the friendships I made and the knowledge that I was gaining, the people I was around, the park and walking

and just how precious life is. It's celebrated, there's culture. It just becomes addicting to wanna put yourself in these situations and see what happens. So I will say in the past year I felt more comfortable with change and I'm grateful for it and I just I'm gonna continue to do that and I want that. How did you get comfortable with that discomfort? I guess in the first place if you're someone who said you know like changed, didn't like change. Yeah. Well, I guess obviously naturally work and everything like that. But was there something internally where you're like, okay, now I need

because you've done this, you've done uncomfortable things your whole life, right? Yeah, definitely. Like you've had to do so many difficult things, whether it's going on tour when you're young or transitioning careers, you've constantly done uncomfortable things. Yeah, but I think I had always kind of returned to the same behavior and the same pattern of maybe, well, I'm nervous of going out because I don't want to be seen today or I'm going to just stay in because I feel anxious or I don't want to go out to that event because I don't want to get seen. I was finding myself just being terrified of the world and that just isn't a way of living. And it's easy to go do a job because, well, I'm with a bunch of people. They help me look good. I do my job, I smile, and I'm done. But taking spontaneous trips or getting out and going to the Balboa Park, which is a very simple park

and just doing that kind of stuff is necessary and I noticed that New York really helped me. It just really opened me up. The show is really great and I think being around a bunch of New Yorkers, it does something to you, man. It's good. Yeah. Well, one of the biggest changes in atmosphere that you took when the documentary is you go to Africa. Right. And that's like a, that's a big change, you know, even if it's a short period of time, but you were still there for a, I was there for a week, yes. But I mean, that definitely wasn't the first time that I had taken trips in the vein of wanting to go for a mission.

It was one of the most beautiful moments of the film for me because we actually thought we were just going to make a quick little video about what we were there to do. And then we fell in love with the people, we fell in love with the story, and we started noticing that everywhere in the world, mental health is very, very real. It's very much something that's affecting everyone. And then you kind of realize that the world is, it's a small place sometimes because you're all kind of walking through pain and you're all looking at things in a different way, but ultimately you all want to be happy. And I felt like they inspired me more than I could have done anything for them. It was a really beautiful trip and yeah, it was one of my favorite moments of the film.

People don't always understand how mental health exists ever in the world when you said that they're also experiencing mental health. What was their experience of it compared to what we would understand as our experience in the US? Yeah, well, I was talking to a woman named Betty and she was, you know, basically kind of the person touring Giving us the tour around the village and the schools and she was lovely But when we stopped to have a conversation we just were sitting down and she She told me her story and how she was dealing with suicidal thoughts

and that how she went to a lake and sat there for two weeks contemplating. Not a day or an hour of moment, it was two weeks and that was something that I felt floored by because that's different. Obviously, we can have those thoughts, but she dismissed herself from everyone. And she had to find it with herself when so many people don't need to walk through that alone, but she did. And she did it well and she's proud of it. And now she is in an incredible school and she's going to grow up to be the best influence

for her village, for her sisters, for everyone that she's around. That's so, so special. And I'm just having those conversations with someone from across the world. It's mind blowing. You don't really know what people are walking through until you do stop and have a conversation.

Two weeks. I can't imagine that feeling what you must be walking through for two weeks to just be sitting there. And did she feel the same from your deeper conversation with her? Did she feel the same feeling that a lot of people do here? Where it's like, I don't know who to talk to and I don't know Open up to her don't know to trust she thought that she needed to be Everything for her family and she felt like she was letting them down same thing if not feeling good enough not feeling like her being there would even be helpful and You do find the similarities in in it And that's how I felt like I bonded with her.

It's incredible, right? Like cross-culture, cross-world to have a human moment like that with someone. What purpose of those missions played in your life in terms of, like you said, this not the first time you've been out, and I'm sure it's not the last as well, it's something that you want to continue to do. I mean, there was a moment in the documentary where you don't want to leave. Yeah, I don't think I necessarily will always be broadcasting when I'm taking these trips or wanting to do more and help and travel. So I think that I will probably have these quarterly or even just maybe once a year, I kind of have to set

time apart for that and I make it a priority, just because I feel personally that everyone is my brother and sister. We're all here together, living, being, and wanting to navigate life together. I want to continue to travel the world and be able to spread some sort of message or bring change in some form. I don't know. Something. I want to be able to continue to always do something. And eventually I do believe my life will end up being something along the lines of doing the things that you do, you know. I got a few more things to do first, but eventually yes. Well, you're already doing them.

You don't, you're already doing them. And yeah, there's that moment. There's the moment in the documentary, I think you're asked through a mirror envelope question. What is your greatest dream, or your ultimate dream, I think is the word. And this is exactly what you say, you say I wanna find a way to change lives.

And I wanna find a way to impact lives. And I think when people think of their ultimate dream, that's not the natural thing that comes to their mind. Right. When did serving, when did helping others become such a big understanding others as well? Because it's not just, I know you feel you're growing from these experiences. When did that become an ultimate dream? Like when did that, what was your dream as a little girl and then, you know, how did that evolve?

I think that I was just, I was just gonna say my mom. I mean, from a very young age, we didn't have a lot, but it didn't matter. It was everything's giving, we were going to, you know, we would go and help out in soup kitchens. And my mom would talk to me about, you know, why we were there and explain to me the way of the world. And we would, you know, see, see really hard things.

In Texas, you know, can be very, you know, very conservative. And my mom would just break those barriers for me and explain to me how beautiful people are and how complicated and complex things are about the world. She never protected me in a way of not showing me the bad things. She showed me everything and that's what has always been a part of my life. I mean, down to, I'd be on set and I'd be talking to the director and someone would come give me a water and if my mom noticed that he didn't say thank you she would just remind me gently in a way that was like hey next time be aware and be thankful and it's kind of like oh yeah you're right sorry mom but you're you're right you are you gotta be aware of people and you have to be aware of what people are walking through. Yeah, I mean, that's such a, yeah, yeah, no, and it's such a, I think that's such a beautiful message

to anyone who is growing up with a little bit more in terms of anyone who's growing up, even, you know, everyone goes through so many difficult things, but I felt the same when I first went to India. I was around nine years old when I first went to India. And I remember we didn't have a lot growing up, but we were still traveling to India. We were in a car and you look out the window

and you see kids your age. I remember just seeing tons of kids my age on the streets. And it was just, yeah, it just made me aware that there was a whole other world out there of experience that I only learned about later on. But I couldn't agree with you more that when you feel like you're a part, even a small part of the solution, the problem starts to feel more within reach.

And I feel like sometimes when we push the problem away or we try and keep it out of sight, it just feels bigger and harder and more difficult. Absolutely. Ignoring it is not fun. I've done that before. It just you end up coping in ways that you never thought that you would and you end up feeling disappointed because you just, you don't want to ever feel like you're doing the wrong thing. I believe that everyone deep down knows what's right and what's wrong. And when you're at your rock bottom, if you will, because I believe that everybody does eventually have one of those moments. Hopefully it's just going to get lighter and lighter because you can start to attack it

in a way where how do I approach this and figure out how to get myself out of this state of mind. And I've learned how to do that in the past few years, and I'm really grateful for it. It's a choice sometimes, but then I also hate when people say that because sometimes they genuinely wake up in a depressive state. And I can't get out of bed,

but I allow myself to have that day and just focus on things that can make me feel better. Instead of pushing it away and saying, no, it's fine. I'm going to go out. I'm going to go do something. I'm going to go get my adrenaline up and get ignored and ignore it and ignore it. It doesn't help at all. Yeah. And you just said that everyone goes through a rock bottom moment. Yeah. And I give everyone goes through that in their life in different ways. How have you become more mindful of your fears and rock bottoms?

Because I think often we ask people like, I look at your life and I think you've gone through so many difficult things. And you know, how do you deal with fears now? Because we all still have fears. We all still have worries. But I feel like you've found a way to become mindful of those things and become a bit more prepared for them. Well, thank you.

I think maybe you are seeing a good side of me because I have the hardest time doing it. I don't know. My fears are relatively, you know, they're quieter, maybe I should say. You know, like for example, this documentary coming out, I am still nervous. I'm nervous for the reaction. Even though I know that I have good intentions behind it, I think that I just have to understand that my fears are only going to continue to show

me what I'm capable of. The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep doing that. And I just hope to get better, hope to get smarter, I hope to become stronger and be a great person. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a phenomenal answer. And it's, yeah, I don't think I'm seeing the, I don't think I'm seeing a good side of you,

silly, I think I'm, I don't think I'm, I'm like, what do you think of, so? I think, you know, I, I don't think it's a good side because I don't believe you have a bad side. Oh, I think it's a, and but I, but I think it's a, it's your truth that we're seeing, you know, it's, it's, we're seeing. It's the essence of us that I'm trying to see in you and myself, anyone around me, anyone I meet, whoever you bump into, it's like, when you see someone's essence, that essence is pure and is genuine and is strong

and powerful and capable, and everything else is not a side of us. It's just stuff that covers us up. Right? Right? Doesn't it feel that way? Yeah, absolutely right. Yeah. I feel like I don't have a side of me that I don't have stuff that's covering over who I really am. Exactly. And it's how to navigate controlling those things and taking control of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And I love what you just said about how confronting your fears is what gives you a sense of confidence and strength. Because when you get through something tough, it does. It feels incredible. I mean, walking through all of those moments that I'm, you know, sharing with everybody

else, it is really great. I mean, it's so sad to watch, but I would not be who I am. Of course, it's such a cliche if it wasn't for that, but facing your fears and tackling them, it's the only way to get through them, I feel. Yeah, you said intention is so important there. And I think that anyone who's in the public eye, sometimes all you have is your intention because you can't control anything else. Yeah.

What role is intention played in your life? And then with this work more clearly, what is your intention for everyone who's going to watch it? Like, what is your hope and wish for the different people that will see it? But first of all, what role is intention played in your life, especially as things have continued to grow? You know, I think maybe in the past five years, I felt like projects I was a part of, even endorsements, something like that, the intention behind me being a part of anything needed to be good.

If I did, if I got a lot of money, I'm just being super transparent from doing this line for a t-shirt and I'm just making this up. There's a huge part of me that actually feels uncomfortable with the whole idea. And that's just me. I have to think, okay, this is thank you, but I need to figure out how this is also not going to be just about me. It's going to be about everyone that's involved in this. How can I turn it into, hey, we're going to do some percentages to this, and this is how we're going to do the deal. I then feel more comfortable stepping into a situation and accepting it. But I've never based my decisions on what will get me to the top quicker, what will make me number one, what will I break records?

All of those things to me are just bonuses. They're just great if it happens, it happens that way, but that's never been my intention. And some people in my position would think that's kind of stupid. It's the whole point of doing it is to break these records, to do all that stuff. But for me, and I think the reason why I am, who I am, is because just enough is what I am. I think that I just want to be enough, and that doesn't have to be me killing myself, trying to be number one at something. Or striving to be number one for something that's exhausting. Yeah, how do you define being just enough now?

What is that evolved? And I'm sure it will change and I'm sure it will grow. But right now, what is that? I feel open, I feel ready for relationships and change. I will be shooting season three, so I'll be in New York for quite a bit and I can't wait to see what will happen and all the people on me and all the people I get to spend time with again, like Stephen Marty and it'll be fun. Yeah, I love that.

Well, Selena, this has been such a beautiful conversation. And the good thing is we don't have to end it here, but we get to invite, we get a very special guest who's joining us today, a very special gift for my audience here and our community and everyone who's listening and watching, we get to have your mug on the show, which is amazing. So I am so excited about this,

because to be able to talk to you both about the incredible work you're doing together, her incredible lessons that she shared with you over time that you spoke about so beautifully today. And I got to talk to her before we started recording as well and just hearing about how innovative and creative she is. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. So if you're okay with that, I'd love to. Oh, I would love it.

Bring out your mom. Please. Mandy over in a second. So we will go and grab her. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Oh, what are you doing? Oh, no, I'm sorry.

So it's so exciting to have you here, Mandy. This is amazing. This is really special when I had that I was going to have this opportunity. I think it's always interesting hearing about someone's journey through someone else's lens, especially your mom, like, you know, who else in the world?

And now my mom's gonna be upset that I haven't had her on the project. You haven't had your mom in the past? So now I feel the pressure. Oh, you have to be the next. I'll have her on a, I'll make my podcast. I'll just make one. There we go.

And have her on there. I love it. But I was going to say, you know, it was just so beautiful in the documentary. And even just now hearing what Selunah had to say about the amazing impact you've had on her, hearing about you going to the suit kitchens when Selunah was younger in the documentary, as I said before,

hearing about how you always encourage her to learn about things that scared her. And that would help her. Yeah. And that would help. I mean, these are really, I hope you feel extremely proud of this incredible human being. And just, you know, from an outsider's point of view, just how incredible it is to see someone sharing their truth with so much bravery, so much courage and impacting the lives and saving the lives of millions of people across the world.

And I'm sure you feel a big part of that. I mean, honestly, I always hope to be a role model in the sense that I was honest about everything with her and who I was and as a person because I feel like sometimes if parents project a perfection, then their kids feel like they have to live up to that or achieve more. And I just wanted her always know I'm a person. I'm going to mess up. And I was 16. So I was even more of a lost person. So I'm kind of surprised she came out as great as she did. So, beyond this. But yes, I'm very proud of her. And, you know, I played a little role in it. And then she's like navigated herself into a wonderful adult. And there's been ups and downs. But it's just been, it's been an honor to be her mother. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health,

personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here, we have the conversations that help Black women dig a little deeper into the most impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children, our friends, and most importantly, ourselves. We chat about things like what to do with a friendship ends, how to know when it's time to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of perfectionism. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. And I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care. A good way to learn about a place is to talk to the people that live there. There's just this sexy vibe and Montreal, this pulse, this energy. What was seen as a very snotty city, people call it Bosedangeless. New Orleans is a town that never forgets its pace. A great way to get to know a place is to get invited to a dinner party. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Newton

and not lost as my new travel podcast where a friend and I go places, see the sights and try to finagle our way into a dinner party. We're kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party. It doesn't always work out. I would love that, but I have like a Cholala who is aggressive towards strangers. I love the dogs.

We learn about the places we're visiting, yes, but we also learn about ourselves. I don't spend as much time thinking about how I'm going to die alone when I'm traveling, but I get to travel with someone I love. Oh, see, I love you too. And also, we get to eat as much. I'm very sincere.

I love you too. Mike's a lot of therapy goes behind that. You're so white. I love it. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Debbie Brown. And my podcast deeply well is a soft place to land on your wellness journey. I hold conscious conversations with leaders and radical healers and wellness and mental

health around topics that are meant to expand and support you on your journey. From guided meditations to deep conversations with some of the world's most gifted experts in self-care, trauma, psychology, spirituality, astrology, and even intimacy. Here is where you'll pick up the tools to live as your highest self. Make better choices, heal and have more joy. My work is rooted in advanced meditation, metaphysics, spiritual psychology, energy healing, and trauma informed practices. I believe that the more we heal and grow within ourselves, the more we are able to bring our creativity to life and live our purpose, which leads to community impact

and higher consciousness for all beings. Deeply well with Debbie Brown is your soft place to land, to work on yourself without judgment, to heal, to learn, to grow, to become who you deserve to be. Deeply well is available now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Big love, namaste. What does that feel like? That's a whole other experience having a child at 16.

I mean, that's a very challenging stressful thing for yourself to go through. You're obviously not mentally in a space to be raising a child because you are a child and you're trying to figure out who you are. And even in some of my really hard times, I feel Selena came into this world at the perfect time because I was really lost myself. And I wasn't going down the right path. And then when I found out I was pregnant, I was like, Oh, I have someone who's going to, I have more responsible for and they're going to look up to me for guidance. And even at a young age, that hit me. And I'm thankful that that hit me.

And that I did, I did allow that pressure to make sure that I was trying to do everything right for her. But that was a moment that when you're 16 in that phase, you're trying to figure out your path in life. And I think I kind of lost a little path of my life because I had something more important to like take over. And I think that the delay at a lessons is something that I felt like even now, you know, I still feel like I'm a little bit youthful even though I'm like creaking and popping when I walk, you know, I still sometimes feel like I have a little bit more adolescence in me and still things to learn.

And so as a teen, it was really challenging and it was really one of those beautiful like vortexes of being young and being able to keep up with a child and having that energy. So I was able to go to school. I went to a conservatory after. So I would take her to school and she started kindergarten and then I would go to school and then I would go to work and then I come home

and do her homework and put her to bed and do my homework and do it all over. And I think about that now and then like come home and do her homework and put her to bed and do my homework and do it all over. And I think about that now and then like, no way. And then like, no way, I have a hard time getting up for my little one now. So it was like I was way too young then, and I'm like way too old now. No, stop.

No, but you know what I mean? It was just like, where was the sweet spot? I just kind of skim by it and you know, accepted the challenge. No, that's incredible. Mums are amazing. I know. Mums do it. Mums across the world, my mom included just unbelievable resilience, unbelievable, found

tolerance. I mean, that sounds like such an incredible journey. And you know, as you were telling me earlier, you haven't yet managed to watch the documentary. Right. You've seen parts, but you haven't been able to bring yourself to actually watch it. Tell us about what that feels like and how hard that is. Well, first, everyone's telling me how fabulous it is. So it's like making me making me more and more eager to kind of put that down. But the reason why is because like we lived some of that together, we've went through that and we've found healing and we've moved past some of it.

And even if it's something that she went through and I didn't know she went through it, it's as a mother it's going to affect me of like, oh, it's going to hurt my stomach, it's going gonna put me in that mindset. And I'm gonna wish I could go and protect her. And she, you know, she was amazing and came through so much that I already feel like I protect you a lot. And I was like, maybe I could just get through the holidays to not where I'm going up to her all the time going, I'm sorry I didn't know. Cause mothers do, like you wanna take away your kids' pain. You don't want them to have to experience that,

even though that is part of developing who they're gonna be and who we all are, is our pain and our suffering and our growth. So it's like, either I'm gonna have to be in that mood where it's like I either I'm going to have to be in that mood where it's that time where I'm just like I'm not getting out of bed today and hardy now I'm going to be a little funky and then watch it and then just be alone and kind of cry and then call her and tell her I'm sorry that I wasn't there in that moment, but you just can't helicopter parent. So it just feels like her first breakup she ever had, I cried.

I was like, oh, they're both hurting. They're both hurting. These four kids that wish I could take their pay. Like our date was like a chaperone to like the movies. Like they didn't make it. I love it. We sell them. Mom's hot, though.

That's a mom's hot. Like unless you're a mom, you can't, you know, you know, it's hot to, it's hot to fully understand. Like, just everything you just said there of like, wow, like we've already lived through that. We've healed through that to revisit that again. That's painful to feel a sense of guilt that I wasn't there for someone in a certain way. I didn't know what they were going through that. Carries just

saying, I mean, Selena, hearing that from your mom, like, what does it feel like when she's like, she hasn't been able to watch it because of all of this? How does that feel to you? Well, it's not far off. I've only seen it twice. And I've premiered it a few times for people and I've stepped away from watching it. I think I relate to my mom because some of those moments were really hard and it's not so much if you don't mind me like saying this, it's not you not being there. It was me not letting you be there. That was the hardest part. And it was also not letting

most of my people like my family in because I was in so much pain and I was walking through all these things. And in a way, I am glad that I walked through some of it alone because it made me who I am, but at the same time, it breaks my heart to know that I had to walk through that when I didn't need to do it alone. So it's very much, it's a relate to her. I understand why she feels that way for sure, and I get it. So. Yeah, it's wonderful hearing both your perspectives on it because I think again, just you being him, Andy, and I'm so grateful that you genuinely are here because it just grounds this back into, we're not watching

a TV show, right? Like, I think Alec did such a great job with it because I, even though I'm not sill in his mother, it's like, I can feel what you're saying through the way the story's told, but I think often when we watch things like this, we're like, oh, yeah, that's a TV show. It's not someone's life. And then when I'm sitting on a set and with you, I'm like, oh, no, no, this is real life. This is someone's actual life and emotions and that, you know, that having your voice in this conversation is so useful for that. Well, I mean, I look at, like, kind of go on what we're going to, the premiere last night, I had a moment before where I was crying. I'm like, I'm going to need to cry and just

get it over with, even though I was just there to support her. And I didn't watch the film. The power and the fear, which I always call fear, the false existence of hearing real. And so like the fear is like, everyone is seeing you in your darkest moment. And it's out there for the world to judge. And they will judge it however they will, because even, you know, again, not seeing the documentary, I hear it's very real and raw and honest and open to do something like that. It's for me, I cry out of fear of like how you were feeling and like how I could protect you. And then I was like, I know that the little bit I did in the interview, I was down a week afterwards because it

did put me back in that place even though we weren't there and I I blacked out the minute you know Alex said action and he was so nice about it and my lovely friend dear friend Emily who does my hair and makeup she was like she was like they're going this is all crying and she's like I didn't like, they're going, she's all crying. And then she's like, I didn't know. And I'm like, well, now everyone's going to know. And there's something beautiful to that because it's, you're exposing a lot and that can be fearful. But you're also giving a lot if that's how you look at it.

And so I think it can make those dark moments really beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's something you as a family seem to have definitely embodied the idea of using your pain to serve others, figuring out a way to make sure that these stories are not just told in silos, but they help other people feel connected. And you know, with what you're doing with Wondermind, like tell us a bit about the mission behind why you founded that, why you brought that to life, because I feel it comes from the same place of like, we're going through these things personally,

but we also know this is a collective global challenge. And so we want to be a part of supporting those communities. When I was really young, and I was about seven years old. I did have my first and only suicide attempt. However you say it didn't happen. Seven years old. Seven years old. I think that would trace us back the time of always not feeling like nothing around me

made sense in my world. And it was just like I felt like I was, and nothing around me made sense in my world. And it was just like, I felt like I was, and, you know, nothing bad was happening. It's just like, this seemed strong to me. This seems wrong to me. I seem wrong. Like, how do I fix this? But from that moment, I've always carried, I think,

that moment in my life, in my mind, of not wanting anyone to ever feel that way, which is what led us to 13 reasons why and some of her fans opening up to us. When I read that, I knew that needed to be a conversational piece. And from the response of what it did and opening those conversations, I inspired me to do more,

but it was like about the timing of what we wanted to do and how we're going to use it. And so, collaborating and figuring out what's missing out there as a support system was the ecosystem that we're planning and working tirelessly to create, where all of it is cohesive and you have one place to go to see that, you know, we actually target it really a filter of feelings. So everybody has feelings that might not be a diagnosed medical condition, but also how can we put out content every day that, you know, keeps it light light but keeps it real and keeps it open for conversation and build a community where everyone will feel safe and not ashamed of like a feeling that they're

having and not ashamed. I heard you guys talking about perfection. It's like I don't like to pretend there is perfection. I think perfection kind of puts a little bit of pressure whenever you can just be. Like, just be and like, so I'm not a big social media fan, but definitely go to Wondermind where we share positive messages. But I think what inspired me was creating this for everyone and content for people to have access to

that can afford to get treatment or don't need treatment, but they need someone to say, hey, check this out. So it's really for everybody. Yeah, thank you so much for sharing your personal experience though, because I can imagine that, you know, the fact that you've held that close to you for this long and now that's coming out in this beautiful way, but when you're holding onto it, it doesn't feel that beautiful always. I mean, Selena, how old were you when you first learned about your mom and that?

I don't think, and this is probably fair enough to say, like, she never really hid a lot of stuff. When I was younger, I never was aware that we didn't have enough. I was never, she did such a great job of, I feel we're talking about you're in your air, but you did, mom. You did of being like, who's this woman you speak of? I have like explaining situations to me that we would be in.

And, um, and I feel around 18, I kind of started to realize more of her story. And obviously it broke my heart. And there are things that I never knew were going on. And she did such a great job of just letting me have a really great childhood. And then once I realized we could be open and honest with each other, that's kind of how under mine started as well. We really ended up working together on an interview. We shared such interests with, you know, the person that was interviewing with us and we thought,

hey, this is something we could probably do together. And it happened that way and it's been really fun. I do want to, I know this is like a love fest, but like, I do want to, there's a moment that, like like you touched me during that time that I don't even know if you remember. I remember I was doing that going to school, going to work, trying to get her out of the the neighborhood I grew up in and try to give her a better life and this was pre her doing anything besides directing films with kids on the street. Yeah, but she wasn't doing anything professionally. I was sitting in front of a mirror and I was

trying to get ready and I just started crying. I was crying, I was crying and she come up behind me and she was so young and she like started playing with my hair and and she's like, what's wrong? And I said, I just don't know why I'm doing what I'm doing. And she goes, you'll figure it out, just keep going. And it was like, I was like, she's already smarter than the people. So it's like, it was like a really good, like strong moment. You don't ever want to, you know, I think being vulnerable in front of her allows, you know, the vulnerability to, you know,

be welcomed. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's so true as we're growing up. It's like, we often look at our parents as perfect unless they let us in. Yeah. Or by the time you figure out that they're not,

and it's interesting that you're saying that at least you felt you were just always open and honest with what you were going through. And with your own challenges and your own struggles, when you're going through your own stuff and you're watching your child go through their stuff, like what's going through a mother's mind in that situation? Like how are you dealing with your own stresses and pains? And trying to be there. And often, as Selena said, and you said, children don't want their parents involved at a certain time, right?

Like I can relate to that completely. Like I think, you know, I listened to everything my parents set up until I was 13 years old. And then from like 13 to 25, I didn't want to hear from them. And then after 25, I was like, Oh, you guys were the best. You're right. But everything and you go through that journey. So, you know, when when your child doesn't want your help, when your child is not allowing you in, like what goes through a parent's mind, especially when they're going through their own work themselves.

I just needed more therapy and in a feeling, and you feel, because, I wanna use this term lightly, like you feel like you felt in some capacity. So then you're like, I know, I took that opportunity to try to see maybe where were the missteps I took as a parent was I too open with her, was I too liberal with her, or, you know, should I not let her do Barney, you know,

like, it's just all these decisions that, you know, you make, you would just reflect on. And I think, I think as parents, we have this capacity to decompartment lies your feelings and then prioritizing everyone else's, like I was telling you earlier when we were talking. It was, it's easier to bury your stuff and then kind of focus, which then becomes unhealthy

for the receiving party and for yourself because you're not taking care of yourself. So I was, I went through it. A lot of days didn't get out of bed. There was just like a lot of crying, a lot of therapy, and I had a therapist because I also, I had a miscarriage during the madness. And you know, I had this therapistcarriage during the madness. And, you know, I had this therapist who gave me the best advice ever.

She's like, just, I need you to leave your house once a day and go, go to the movies, buy a ticket. I don't care if you watch it. But every day you need receipts that you left your house. And so I'd like walk through the mall just like crying, being lost and, you know, not knowing what to do. And I would buy stuff and I'd have walked through the mall just like crying, being lost and you know, not knowing what to do. And I would buy stuff and I'd have to go and take it to her in each session.

And I didn't even ask her the purpose. I was like, she's just trying to get me to get out of the house. And then I realized the whole like after about six weeks of doing that, I started feeling more comfortable with being even more vulnerable because I'm crying and I know the world's going to be okay and nobody's judging me. People are asking me, hey, are you okay? That kind of thing and I'm just like, and then you just keep walking. But that judgment that everybody's afraid of, it showed me that, because I was mad that I felt as a mother, and this isn't my eyes, not like you know, like I felt as Selena's mother, and then I also my

body hurt my other baby. So I was like angry at myself completely. And I needed to see that, oh, the world's alive, and there is forgiveness. And I can still find happiness for myself because I was just like being a mom was something and the only thing I really knew to do since the age of 15. So when that's gone, you're just like, oh, I'm supposed to have all these, that don't even tell my child, I'm supposed to do things, you know? So it was, I'm a lot of growing, you know? And it's hard when you're in it, but when you get out of it, it's fantastic.

It really is. It's just, you feel lighter and you feel like more hopeful, you know, and then when you have that next opportunity or that next, you know, downtrodden moment, you know, you're going to get out of it. It's like, all right, I just got to get through this. Just got to figure it out, got to vibe through it. And then it'll pass.

So I think, yeah, you were talking about rock bottom a little bit earlier. Yeah, definitely hitting rock bottom. It does. It feels like you're breaking through. What's really refreshing hearing both of you together is just, I feel like this is going to heal a lot of parent children. Relationships like listening to you both today because I'm just thinking so often we think our thoughts to ourselves and we never share them with the people that those thoughts are about. So, you know, I'm sure there's so many children out there who their thoughts are like,

I wish my parents did this better and my parents could have done this and those of valid thoughts. And then there's parents out there at the same time having the same thought of like, I wish I didn't do that to them. And I, you know, and often we just never find out. We never know because we don't get to have these open on-est dialogues. And so I really think this on top of everything you wouldn't do. This is really going to inspire a lot of parents in these.

Thank you. Yeah, it's because it's even listening to you. I'm just I'm thinking to my parents and I'm thinking to my friends' parents and I'm thinking, everyone needs to be able to open their heart because somewhere, everyone's painting themselves, the villain and someone's painting themselves as the person who messed up and got everything wrong.

And in our head we're thinking, are they got away with it or they do not aware of it? So I find, I mean, did you, were you always open to therapy and always open to this self work? Was that a part of who you were as well always? And that was, or was that something you kind of turned to it as well? Well, I will tell you a haunting little secret

that when I was really young in junior high, I wanted to be a criminal psychologist. So that's, that's why I always say that. She's making fun of me and murder. I think that's that one was I on that person but um I I was already reading on serial killers at that age because I was fascinated with the The mind set and I didn't come from you know an environment where therapy was even talked about but I just at a certain age I really felt like super depressed.

And so I had to go out and explore it myself and go through tons of doctors. And you know, you would say one thing and it was just like, they go, Hey, are you seeing things? I'm like, I saw black butterfly the other day and they go, Oh, see you're hallucinating. And I'm like, am I? So like, I had to go and I wasn't, but it was a real black butterfly. So I had to learn like how to understand myself and my mind on my own. And finally, also I did, I went away to a facility and was the first time I got to really spend all that time.

It was best 28 days that I spent on myself. And, yeah, you just, like, you have to kind of build that relationship with your mind. And I think people are so afraid of being honest with themselves because then they have to face it. But what helped me is I realized, like, you know, in this relationship, I was parenting her the way I needed to be parented, not what she was needing. And that is how I feel like I made my contribution

to healing this relationship was like, okay, pull back. I need to know her and her needs, not like be the mom of bear, even though I still haven't lost that completely. But like, you know, sometimes I just need to listen and not fix it. And so that was the biggest thing I think I really went on a little tellspend there. But like, that was the biggest thing that I learned through,

you know, that whole time that we were separated. It was like seeing who I was and how other people see me. And I do that every day. I'll say something. I'm like, okay, how did that come off to someone else? You know, because I have ADHD, so I'm quick to like, spurt out whatever's in my brain. And then I'm like, they really didn't need to know that.

But it's out there in the world. The self, the self work in this room is, is amazing. Yeah. No, no. The amount of like self reflection and self awareness in this room is really strong. This is, yeah, this is very powerful stuff. No, and, and you did not get lost on a tangent. I think everything you just shared with us, even you just coming to that conclusion of knowing that you're

parenting someone that you deeply loved in a way that you wanted to be parented. I think that is at the core of so much of how we all live. Yeah, we're all loving people the way we wish we were loved. And we're all hurting people the way we wish we weren't hurt. It's so... It's just fascinating when we finally, you know, look beneath the surface and uncover why it's all there and where it is. And to do that together and separately, I love this idea that there were times when you have to do this at a distance from each other as well.

I think that's such a healthy message to be out there as well in the world. I think we're often all trying to solve all our issues in the same place. Yeah. Definitely. I think there are moments, even in friendships, where it wasn't necessary for me to take a step back and figure out what is serving me, what's not serving me, what makes me happy, what's challenging me, what's helping me move forward versus what's not, I think it's really important.

I think when we're looking from the outside in, we limit people to certain experiences we've remembered them for, certain people we expect them to be with, people that they're meant to be around, the way families are meant to be, like there's all these meant to be. And then it's like, well, no, in reality, there's space, there's distance, there's reflection, there's the need for all of these things. With the work you told me earlier with me as well in terms of how you now taking these messages on screen. Yeah. Which you're sharing,

which I know is such a big part of the work. And I feel so excited about that. Like that feels me with the greatest amount of joy knowing that we're going to see better representation of mental health on screen. I think that's huge. Where did you start to realize that from 13 reasons why as we spoke earlier, like where did you start to realize that from 13 reasons why, as we spoke earlier, like, where did you start to realize

that was so important for people to see that representation on screen? Well, I think it comes back to not wanting people to feel like I did at seven years old. It's like, I'm so open. Like with, you know, oh, I'm bipolar or they'll have ADHD, you ADHD, I was misdiagnosed for a while. So I was always so open with it. And even in a town where they're so accepting and certain capacities, it's still like, well, she's not stable. And I even would joke and go, yeah, I'm crazy.

I'm crazy. I'm crazy. And I was not supporting myself in that. And I didn't want anybody to feel that way. So, you know, during 13 reasons why we worked tirelessly, the entire team to make sure we were executing the whole point of it in that, you know, we're losing teams every day to suicide. And it's horrible and unnecessary. And, you know, how do we, how can we, as adults? And that's why it was so important, I think, for me and Sleena to go out and talk about it. So parents would watch it together, you know. And

once that got the reaction, it got, you know, I heard different opinions and I wanted to hear everyone whether they thought it was a bad idea a great idea It touched them it offended them like I really like listen to everything and all the you know data And I've always been someone who enjoyed storytelling and so I someone who enjoyed storytelling. And so I like to tell stories. And if I can, you know, show, and like I was telling earlier, I like using Silver Linings playbook because they're bipolar, but they're having a life. They're having a relationship. And as it may come with challenges, every relationship comes with challenges. It's not just a mental, a mental issue that someone has that causes those challenges.

We're all people, and if we just learn to understand each other, they'll be less fear of it. And then people will get more treatment, and they'll just be more happiness. And I know sometimes I feel like I'm being like, the world's gonna be happy. You know, kind of like that. But, you know, and again, like my adolescence that's still there. But I think that's what inspires me is to, I scared off people by talking about myself in a negative way.

And by, you know, not sharing enough, so it's like, or sharing too much. So then it's like navigating that and like, you know, like I mentioned, like, one of the flu over the Cuckoo's Nests and growing erupted favorite films, love them, but that's not the reality, Selina or I live in every day. You know, I have been in a facility

and but it was not like what's being portrayed. It was a beautiful experience and made me a better person for it. So it just like media loves to tell all of the bad stuff. It's like we could use it as educational without preachy. And so let's just tell stories of real people dealing with mental health issues and different capacities and show that you can that you're alright. You're going to make it. It's like and you just need to give yourself that that permission. And then once you give yourself that permission, you're going to come out a happier person. I like, I embrace my ADHD. Like I really do. We have a lot of fun together. Well, I think this is painting a beautiful picture of just how like we always want growth to be this perfect line. Right. You know,. We expect growth in families individually

to just look like, oh, we're just all growing at the same time and isn't this beautiful? And it's like, well, no, growth is not that way. And growth is being patient when my daughter wants to grow this way. I'm trying to figure this out. Or I'm going to be patient while my mom tivots and shifts.

And that's what growth is. Growth is being patient with each other and growth is holding space and being okay when we're not being the nicest people to each other. That's so much more to growth. And so I want to thank you both for displaying that and sharing that with us today. Oh, thank you.

Because it's, yeah, it's, it's special seeing it from this perspective for sure. Rather than either. I, we end every on purpose episode with a final five, which I'm going to ask to both of you. Okay. So you'll do one question at a time each. Okay. And these are one word to one sentence maximum.

Great. They are not questions like what's your favorite content. Okay. I promise. It's fun. They're all thoughtful questions as you would expect. Okay. your favorite color. The problem is, they're all thoughtful questions as you would expect. Okay, so question number one is, what is the best advice you've ever received or heard when it comes to mental health? I'm sure it's like an a bernet brown book.

I'm feeling like that. I'm feeling like that. You're right on my roof. I think the best advice had been given is probably what I have thoroughly said throughout my documentary and speaking with you is learning how to make it a part of your life. That's why I say make it your friend because I think you have to understand why. And sometimes you may not always know why. But if you can understand that it's a feeling like my mom said, where maybe this will pass and maybe you just gotta go through and you have to have the day in bed crying, you have to do those things in order to figure out

what it is that's gonna set you free from it. Maybe that would be it. Right, advice. Make your practice. Yeah. I think mine was take your time. That was what I was told when I went to train. That's free. Yeah.

Take your time. It's really good. Yeah. What's some of the second question? What's some of the worst advice you've ever had or received when it comes to mental? That it's all in my head and I can just control it. Like stop having bad thoughts. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say yeah, somewhere along the lines of like you're fine. I

Mean, yeah, I had someone say to me literally like you're so dramatic you make up everything, you know, that was so hurtful. The worst, I felt the worst. Calm down. It's like that's never a word. Good answers. All right, question number three. How would you both define your individually your current purpose in life? I fully feel that I am exactly where I'm meant to be. I am meant to share my story and in the season of my life I want to be loved the way I love people.

I want to give the way people have so generously given to me and I want to continue to work on become becoming a better and a happier person every day. It's a beautiful purpose. I've received so now I want to give. Oh, for. Wow. This is really beautiful answers. Question number four, what's something you used to value that you don't value that much anymore? Oh, people's opinions. I agree. It's so exhausting. I would say it is nice to hear great things, but I accept compliments in a man or where I can appreciate them, but I have to learn how to just know that I got to keep a straight head. to just know that I got to keep a straight head, I got to like understand that everything

is a gift and not to let things get to my head. Yeah, because I always say, if you accept all the compliments internally, then you'll have to accept all the negative. So just be careful. Just be selective with what we let in. Yeah. Yeah. There's a beautiful quote. I can't remember who said it, but it says, uh, don't let compliments get to your head and criticism get to your heart. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love that. That was very poetic with what I was trying to say. It's been said for thousands of years. Thank you for just repeating.

No, no, but I think it's such a beautiful experience. And yeah, and I think that's also when we're mindful of giving compliments to others, I think something that I've learned is that I enjoy, and we've talked about this today, I really enjoy the art of learning to see someone's essence. It's something that I try and live by because, and then when you want to compliment someone, it's like, how do you give a compliment

that isn't empty, flattery, or that isn't just surface level. And I think when we get compliments like that, they don't go to our head, they do go to our heart. It's different. So I hope that we can also learn to compliment each other in more beautiful and genuine ways. Fifth and final question, question number five is if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Practicing forgiveness. Wow.

I probably would say something super simple and cheesy, but treat others the way you want to be treated. Yeah, and then we throw in the forgiveness. Yeah, honestly, that's the biggest thing. Yeah, forgiveness. Yeah, yeah. I say we campaign. All right, let's do it, mom. Forgiveness, get paid. That's right. Wait, can I ask you a question? Of course you get it, yeah. Okay. When is the last time you did something for the first time? Ooh. Wow, when did that come from?

Okay, when was the last time when you did practice? The first time. The most interesting answer that came to mind straight away, even though it was a couple of months ago now, I went trekking with guerrillas in Rwanda. Wow. And it was amazing.

It was, yeah, it was a few months ago. And it was the most incredible experience of my life. That sounds like wild. Yeah, so they're mountain gorilla. And they're not, you don't, they don't have any technology on them or, you know, they're not treated a certain way. They're not in a zoo or they're not trapped. You are in their home.

And you have to set out early in the morning to go and look for them. And the people that are doing these tours, they know where they usually are, so they take you in that direction. Oh my God. And then you finally discover like this family of gorillas. And I thought I'd see one or two.

I was very, I wasn't skeptical, but I was kind of like, who knows? Right. We saw 18 gorillas like a family. I do think they could do it. Did they cuddle you? So no, I wish. I only want to see is what. Javing cuddle.

They cuddle each other. But the guides tell us that the only thing you have to do is maintain your distance. You're not allowed to try and touch them or their kids because they see that as violent. The gorillas are just so peaceful and they're so calm. And they have this sound that they make. This was my favorite part of the experience. So we were told by our guide that if you make this sound, it basically tells the gorillas, we come in peace. And so this sound is, you have to make that sound. And the gorillas make it back to you. No, they'll see you about all they'll do it to you as they come closer,

just to let you know, hey, we're not trying to harm you. We're just gonna walk past you. I love that. It was really special. So that was the most recent memory of someone. Well, that's a hell of a one. I No, it was really, it was really truly special. It was, you know, it's just being with another creature that another form of life that is uninterested in you.

Yeah. It's very humbling in a good way. That's it. Yeah, this form of life doesn't even care that I exist. We're like staring at it, taking pictures. And the girl is is like, yeah, whatever. That's a good question. That's a good question. Well, Selena, man, you have both been so gracious with your time today. You've been so kind and generous with your energy. And this

documentary is going to change so many lives. And it is going to shift the culture of how we share our pain in a way that truly positively impacts the lives of people across the world. And so thank you, both. So you really appreciate it. Thank you for sharing your heart for years, for sharing your soul and for taking the time to create something that's truly going to be talked about for years and years to come. Oh, boy, thanks. Thank you, Jay, you're the best. And thank you for your friendship as well.

Of course. Mandy, thank you for opening up so vulnerable with us today about your experiences, about all the gifts and the challenges that come with loving family and each other and also for leading as part of this movement and everything you're doing with one mind and trying to help people all across the world with mental health and wellness. Thank you so much for your commitment to it. No, and thank you, thank you for everything you do.

Yes. All together we can make it happen. I love it. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you for everything you do. Yeah, yes. All together we can make it happen. I love it. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you, boss. Thank you.

Thank you, boss. I love it. Thank you. Thank you, boss. I love it. Thank you, boss. I love it. Thank you, boss.

I love it. Thank you, boss. I love it. Thank you, boss. I love it. Thank you, boss. I love it. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I

can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the therapy for Black Girls Podcast on the iHART radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care. I'm Munga Shatekler and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in major league baseball, international banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me, and my whole view on astrology changed.

Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Nuneum, I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bon vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend

to a new place and to really understand it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to Not Lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.