On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Simone Ashley: “Self-Belief Changed My Life”

Starting point is 00:00:00 We were just together for dinner last night, so this feels very weird. I know. We were at the Bangkok Supper Club. You are one of my dearest friends. You're like a sister to me. We had a great time. But you've become a New York girl now. Yeah. So tell me about what are the three top recommendations in New York that I shouldn't miss this week and people shouldn't miss? Bangkok Supper Club was a vibe. It was great. We were going to go to Frenchette, but I shifted because I wanted something else. But Frenchette is great. You landed from London last night. Lander from London. Why did you shift away from friendship? I was feeling summery kind of vibes.

Starting point is 00:00:34 I just really wanted chicken and rice. And I think it's got good veggie options as well. So I got recommended to go there before and all of my friends that I've gone there been like it's one of the best. Third place, I can't think of the top of my head. There's so many. There's two good ones to start. Last night was good. So your recommendations are good.

Starting point is 00:00:53 Hey, it's Jay. I don't know what your day's been like. but I was just thinking about you for a minute. And I hope you're being a little patient with yourself because you deserve it. And yeah, I'll talk to you soon. Simone Ashley, welcome to On Purpose. Hi, thank you for having me.

Starting point is 00:01:20 What's the biggest difference in your life over the last five years? Like if you look to your life where you were five years ago, personally, professionally, and you looked at it today, what are the biggest shifts you're noticing? So five years ago was 2021. We were just coming out of lockdown. and I was really worried because, like many people, lockdown left me in a place where, especially as an artist, I didn't know when the next paycheck was coming in and what was going to be happening with my work. So I was kind of smiling through it.

Starting point is 00:01:53 And I remember January 2021, I was sat in my friend's apartment and I was like, I just need one thing. Like, whether it's a commercial, I'll do a toothpaste commercial. anything. And then I got a call for Bridgeton literally the next week. And I was filming a little mermaid as well at the time. And yeah, then life completely changed. Then I was filming the whole of 2021, Bridgeton. We filmed for like 10 months because we were filming during COVID. Personally, over the past five years, I've definitely grown so much. And I'm really proud of that. I think I've really taken upon reflecting on myself and trying to grow into the women I want to be. My community of friends has just, that's one of the best things that's happened.

Starting point is 00:02:48 Back in 2021, if you told me these are all the people that are going to be in your life, I would just be so happy. And especially my community of girlfriends since moving to New York has just expanded. And that's something that's been so important for me. me. My relationship with my family has really grown and deepened. And I think that for me, the more maturing I've experienced, the deeper my relationship my family's got. Yeah. So personally, I would say that and professionally, it's been way of so many exciting things. But I would say the past two years, foot's been full on the gas on the floor and just going with it. Now I'm just staring at

Starting point is 00:03:30 your teeth going, you should do a two-face commercial. Oh, really? I'm like, yeah, have you done one yet? Is it coming? That's all I'm thinking about now. Like, I completely ignored everything you said since then. I know you've talked about this before, but talk to me about getting that call for Bridgeton, when you're in this moment in your life, that feels like, I don't know when my next paycheck's coming, I don't know what comes next, hopefully I get a toothpaste commercial, but then you get this incredible opportunity, which, did you know then how big it was going to be? I didn't. I remember because the first season came out at Christmas, so December 2020. It was very visible and everyone was talking about it. And, you know, Regé Jean-Page,

Starting point is 00:04:09 Paige, Phoebe Dinova, they were everywhere. Even though I'd done sex education, I'd never really been at the forefront or the lead of a show like that. And I didn't understand it at all. I was just so excited about the character and the storyline and that I had to go and do horse riding training and all these things. So it was only when it came out that I really started to understand how it was going to change my life, I guess. And to be honest, only lately the past two years or year, I've really been able to have a clear understanding of all of those things. I've always been someone that's first and foremost drawn to the craft and everything else is just a bonus. And now I think the more experience I've got and the more variety my ambition has, I want to do

Starting point is 00:05:07 loads of other different things. Now I'm really understanding. And it's fun to like learn and explore different factors of what the work can do. What was it like growing up Indian wanting to be an actress? It was a question that never entered my head, really. I never had this narrative growing up that, oh, I'm an Indian girl. Even though, you know, my mom practiced Hinduism when I was growing up and my family in California had a really intimate relationship with their culture and their religion. I just saw what was in front of me in my life. And, you know, me and my brother, we grew up westernized in England, between England and California. And it was something that never really entered my head. I always loved the color of my skin. I always had this confidence in

Starting point is 00:05:56 myself and I think anything that felt like a hindrance wasn't because of my culture or my heritage. It was maybe I was a bit of an awkward teenager or I didn't, you know, I wasn't growing into myself like the other peers around me were. So I guess to answer your question, I just, I felt like any other young teenager. Yeah, I can relate to that actually. When I was growing up in London, I felt like I never saw. I was, I was bullied for the color of my skin growing up in primary school. But I didn't really understand. understand why. Like, it didn't make sense to me. And so I don't think I internalized it that much. And I felt like I grew up believing I could do anything or be anything. And I never saw my color

Starting point is 00:06:37 of skin as an advantage or a disadvantage. It just felt like who I was. Yeah. And even though I was bullied for it or even though sometimes it felt like I was experiencing racism, it became something that I was so confident and comfortable about. And so as I'm listening to you say that, I'm like, how did you get that balance right? Like, how did you feel confident and comfortable in your skin? And happy about the color of your skin and at the same time not make it your full picture, if that makes sense. I guess my personality or things that I was drawn to, I spent so many summers in California, so my skin was always exposed. I was always wearing summer dresses or shorts or, you know, clothes you would wear in California or in the summer in London. And I loved it. I never

Starting point is 00:07:20 wanted to shy away from that. I think brown skin's so beautiful. And I think I, think many people do feel that way. That was something that took my my headspace more than anything else. And yeah, similar to you, I did get bullied sometimes, but no one could ever say or do anything that made me believe that what they were saying was true. And I think my mom's so beautiful as well. She really is. And I know it's a biased thing to say that everyone thinks I'm beautiful, but my mom really is just stunning. And that was a great example for me. Looking up to her, just, you know, she's got much lighter skin than me. But I still had a great example of just loving the color of my skin. This episode is presented by State Farm. We spend so much energy becoming the best

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Starting point is 00:08:45 when we walked out, like all these girls came up to you and they were like, Simone, like, thank you so much for what you've done for representation and the way you carry our culture and you inspire us. And I was thinking, what does that make you feel now when you think about it from little Simone who wants to be an actress who's growing up in admiration of her mother, who's looking at life and going, I want to be this thing, I don't know how it's going to happen, when it's going to happen. And now you have all these young women coming up to you and saying, Simone, you did it. Like, you're showing me what's possible. Like, what does that feel like? It's amazing. I really want to just spread good in the world and especially women help women feel like their dreams are possible. And if I can do that with my work, then I feel so satisfied and so happy. So when girls and women stop me and say things like that, I feel really proud. The narrative I had as a kid was slightly naive. I was just like so unnoticed.

Starting point is 00:09:47 aware of any inhibitions that maybe the rest of the world could have put on me in the career that I was choosing to do. And yeah, now I'm a grown woman. It took me a few years, but I do understand what I represent and I think I can articulate more now what I want to do with that and how I want to hold myself. And I think I just want to shed positivity on it and also just have it as an open door, I don't think the color of your skin, your culture or heritage should ever be something that corners you or stereotypes you or puts you in a box. So I try to make choices and the work that I do that helps elevate that belief. And yeah, I also celebrate it. I don't really overthink it too much. I think I just follow my heart with it. And I think it just comes

Starting point is 00:10:34 from first and foremost as a kid. I just always loved the color of my skin. It wasn't anything that I second guessed at all. I love hearing that. I hope that. I hope that who's listening to that who's been feeling a bit uneasy or feeling a bit uncertain about how they fit in and where they are, even hearing you being an awkward teenager. Tell me a bit about that actually. We can't see it, Simone. We don't believe you. I'm awkward. I'm awkward. You've seen me be awkward before. Yeah, I've seen you awkward before. Fair, fair, fair, fair. So you're still awkward. Yeah. Like, we went bowling like a month ago and I was so like overthinking. That was the worst worst game of bowling I've done in my entire life. I did pretty well. You actually did really well.

Starting point is 00:11:11 Yeah. You actually did pretty well. I was impressed. That was the worst and I was so embarrassed because I was with all your friends and I was like this is the worst. How am I having my worst game of bowling when I'm out with all your friends? It's good to humble you. Yeah, that's exactly how it felt. I was like, this is humiliating. I was awkward then and then the moment we went, I was like, oh, this is fine. I'm overthink. When I was a kid, I had certain experiences growing up in my household that made me want to escape reality, I guess. And I also went to an all-girls. school, which is just dynamite for any kid, any young girl growing up. It's, that's the deep end. And, you know, you're surrounded by young girls that maybe come from very privileged families or have older sisters that they can borrow clothes and makeup from or girls that are already dating boys. And it's like a minefield of like all these different milestones that you reach as a teenager. And I think I was just so awkward and I was really quiet as well. and very observant.

Starting point is 00:12:14 And I still am like that. But I think I truly believe anyone in this world can be a superstar. And when I say superstar, like, the most confident, popular for a better word, or the best shiny version of themselves, if they're within the right agency of people. And I think I was just trying to, I was just not in the right environment for me. And actually leaving home young and starting to find my community, I found myself in places where I could be myself even more. Yeah, I think I was just awkward because instead of being a teenager, sometimes,

Starting point is 00:12:49 I actually was just constantly thinking about my career and what I wanted to do. So maybe that was just unrelatable for certain people. Do you look back at that now as a strength, or do you feel like that made you miss out on being a teenager? I think in some ways it was maybe slightly isolating. But, you know, it made me who I am now. And I wouldn't say I'm missing out on anything, because I have such a great community of friends and experiences now.

Starting point is 00:13:16 And I'm still friends with some of the girls that I grew up with, but having that like wolf pack that you like go through prom and, you know, university and all those things with, I never really had that because of the career that I chose because it just took me so far and wide at a pace that was so maybe slightly unrelatable. I think I would regret it if I felt like I was lacking something now. It's interesting hearing about your experience of an old girl school. because I went to an all-boy school

Starting point is 00:13:42 and I'd look back at it and go, I felt like there was no pressure on us because we didn't have girls to impress. Like I can imagine if we had girls at school, we'd all have dressed differently, we would have acted differently, we would have put in more effort, but all of us would just kind of come to school

Starting point is 00:13:58 not caring about anything. And there was almost like a freedom in it now when I look back to some degree. I mean, I'm sure there's all sorts of studies on whether boys schools and girls' schools are good for people or development. And I don't know enough about it, but what I do know.

Starting point is 00:14:11 know, for me, at least it felt like there was no pressure and there was freedom. And there was something nice about that, at that age especially. But I wanted to go back a little bit because you were talking about growing up and even the home environment, not always feeling as comfortable. And I wonder, one of my favorite questions to ask people is like, what's a childhood memory you have that you feel as defined who you are today? My mom has really strong values. And she would always tell me stories that taught me those values. And one particularly was about not being materialistic. My mum grew up in like a small village in the south of India, right?

Starting point is 00:14:54 Where it didn't matter what you wore or what you did, how much money you earned. Like your currency was your kindness and just who you were as a person. And I think my mom very much instilled that in me. And she always raised me and my brother to just have good values, to share, to not be materialistic. And there was a story she once told me about when she was a kid. And I think me and my brother were fighting over something, like a piece of cake. It was definitely some form of food. And she was like, you know, once you've eaten it and you swallowed it, like, it's not food anymore. It's not, it's just mulch. It's nothing. So what are you guys fighting over? and I'll never forget that.

Starting point is 00:15:37 It just made me kind of grow up, not feeling possessive or precious over things. And this isn't something that I think she meant to instill in me, but I think it eventually evolved into me not being envious of people, especially my friends. I think it's really hard to have friendships of people if you're feeling envious of them. And I've experienced that vice, like, reverse. And it's hard. Envy isn't really something I've ever had much experience with.

Starting point is 00:16:04 It's not something that has like been in my mind too much. You're so right that envy destroys friendships. It does. I've had both experiences of it or even seen it where people have said they lost a friend because they admitted they were envious. Or they've lost a friend because they know their friend was envious of them, whether it was about their relationship, their money, their career, whatever it may be. What for you defines a good friend? Someone that's honest with you. And even if it's slightly uncomfortable, to be honest,

Starting point is 00:16:34 about something. I think the term friend is an ongoing heartbeat no matter what happens above that. For me personally, my friends are there for me, even if I'm having a really hard time, and I can be so annoying and I don't stop talking about something or I just can't seem to get through something or I'm just not the best version of myself, but they're still there and they're supportive and they accept me, even at my worst. When I have my wins and my moments of celebration where I want to bring everyone together, they show up and they're there. I think a good friend is, I guess it's the polar opposite of envy.

Starting point is 00:17:13 It's just wanting your friends to win, wanting them to just have their flowers and have their moment that they've deserved, whether it's finding true love or a career milestone or something small, something big, whatever it is. Feeling such pride, joy and love for a friend when they achieve all of that, that's real friendship to me. It feels like you were saying that since moving to New York,

Starting point is 00:17:39 your group of girlfriends feels really like that. Yeah, I think I've found in New York particularly, girls here, my friends, we're all in similar age groups, like late 20s, early 30s. And it is kind of that sex in the city narrative of like trying to find love in a city like this. And it's always the conversation we talk about whenever we're all hanging out. Or my girlfriends, we encourage each other to be fit and healthy, to go out and have fun, to go and take a risk, to live our best lives in this city.

Starting point is 00:18:15 And that's been so amazing for me, especially coming from like an all-girls school, where I felt so awkward and out of place and that quite unrelatable. I think growing up is learning how to relate to people and finding universal languages between people no matter how different you are, how different your backgrounds are. And I think especially for women to just annihilate competition and to just support each other. And it's all like, oh, I feel the same way, or that's happened to me before, or I feel insecure about these things or awkward about these things. And it's just so, it's quite cathartic. How do you find those people? How do you get there? Because I feel like people listen to you right now,

Starting point is 00:18:55 they're like, that's what I want. Like, I really wish I had that, but I'm surrounded by people who are envious or or shoot down my dreams or don't make me feel like I can achieve anything. Like, how do you attract people like that? How do you find those people in such a big city like this? I don't think there's any algorithm to it. I was in London for like 10 years. And I still go back on and off for work and to see family and friends. I had many years to really grow quite a small but strong group of friends

Starting point is 00:19:22 who are literally like my siblings. I met them whether it was through work or through partners I dated or whatever it might be. In New York, when I moved here last year, I knew nobody. And I was starting to film Double Wears Prada. And I got very lucky, actually. I got introduced to one of my friends, her name's Savannah. And she's just like a firework. She knows so many people.

Starting point is 00:19:51 She's very social. And she literally took my hand and was like, we're going to go out. Like, every other night, whether it's just for a dinner or you're going to come and meet this person. and we're going to go to this concert and you just got to come and meet people. And I just got lucky and fell into a group of people that really felt like open-armed community. It was something I manifested.

Starting point is 00:20:13 I just said yes to everything. I tried to bring people together or if I was going out to the gym or something I'd invite my girlfriends to go. And I think it's just if you put it out there, then you'll find it. But, you know, that took me some time to get to that place.

Starting point is 00:20:29 as a person to be so confident within myself and to just go out there and throw myself out there. I guess anyone listening who is feeling lonely or wanting to make more friends or wanting to build that community, you know, I feel lonely all the time. But I think there's a difference between loneliness and being alone. Sometimes I've got to get out my head and be like, I'm not lonely, just because I'm travelling on my own or like whatever. And actually, practicing gratitude of, oh, I do have so many people that love and care about me. Social media is the worst. Social media will make you feel like the loneliest person. There's a culture of wanting to show that you're busy, you're surrounded by people, you're loved, you're with a crowd of

Starting point is 00:21:19 cool people, having this awesome evening and everything is quite perfect. And, you know, social media is the worst for that because I might be on my couch after like a four years. 16-hour day, exhausted. And, you know, maybe none of my friends are out and about or whatever. I didn't get invited to something and you see something on social media. And it makes you feel like a loser. But it's not real. I've matured enough to know that it's not real and it's nothing to take personally, if that makes sense. No, that's huge. It's huge. And I love hearing you say that because I'm sure people look at your life and think, I wish I had that and I wish I could do that. She's living in New York.

Starting point is 00:21:58 And then you start to realize that it is all in our, it's half in our head and half on social media, where we have completely confused being alone and being lonely. And I was remembering when I was doing some research on that, there's this amazing writer named Paul Tillich. And he wrote about how there's a difference between being in solitude and being lonely. And he was like, it's really interesting in the English language. We always say I'm alone.

Starting point is 00:22:23 We never say I'm in solitude. And solitude's the strength of being alone. solitudes, the joy of being alone. And being alone is the pain of being alone or the stress of being alone. And he said, we just don't use that word. And so we just think alone means lonely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And therefore, lonely means sad, depressed, disconnected, away from everyone else. And I think that reframe that you just put out for people is really important. And like you said, you just finished a long work day or a work week. And you've gone on social media and you see everyone having a great time. Of course you're going to feel. Yeah. And everyone's only posting the best moment

Starting point is 00:22:57 of the week. No one's going up there and going, I'm alone today, you know, or some people are, but you're not seeing it as much. I think it's so, like, friendships and adult friendship seems to be such a big theme in the world right now, whether I'm reading a substack, whether I'm on TikTok, whether I'm on Instagram, the conversation around finding adult friendships is huge. But from that, also the romantic perspective, you just said you're kind of, you know, sex in the city vibes, New York, girls that are dating. I've heard you say before, you're entering your single, era. And I wanted to know, what have you learned about yourself while being single that you didn't know about yourself when you were in a relationship? Being single, I think it's such a

Starting point is 00:23:38 important time because you really get to know yourself when the noise stops. I think it's really important to take that time and trust it and sit in the discomfort of it. For me, I guess it became quite specific over this past eight months because my life became so work consumed since January. I didn't stop traveling and shooting, doing press, filming, releasing music. So it was really important for me actually to be single and to prioritize myself and my work. I'm someone that I'm like, I can do it all. I can have a relationship and this career and like do it all. And I probably can. But I just had to trust that. You can for sure.

Starting point is 00:24:25 Yeah. Yeah. You can. I know. I'm the friend that's like, if your birthdays in three months, I know what I'm going to get you. I'll organise it. And it's a joy for me, right? So I don't think it was a problem about like capacity.

Starting point is 00:24:39 I just think maybe it was just about practicing stillness. And kind of connecting to what we were saying about feeling left out or if you see things on social media and you feel like you're alone. I always try to go back to like, what do I believe in? And it really strengthens me and my values and what am I believing in right now? What are my work priorities? What are my friends or whatever? It just kind of makes you a bit more confident and comfortable within the silence. But manifesting is a real thing.

Starting point is 00:25:14 Like when my cup is full or my batteries are fully charged and I'm feeling healthy and happy and I'm glowing. and I'm glowing and I can only achieve that if I have had space to be on my own. And when I've reached that level, things come to me. What are you trying to manifest right now in love? Manifesting love itself to be really simple. And I think that is, you know, someone that I can experience joy with, someone that I can be myself with, someone that I can learn something from and learn about myself from.

Starting point is 00:25:47 I really want to meet someone that believes in my dreams and has dreams of their own where they're not afraid to step in and just go for it, you know. I'm going to say dreams. I'm not like, oh my gosh, like big house on like some awesome piece of land and like all these kind of things. It's much simpler than that. I think it's just finding someone that doesn't see it so complicated to do life with me, where it's just. just you have an amazing connection, an amazing friendship, and just is curious and excited to give that a go. But also, Jay, like, I don't know. I'm also, maybe I'm at a point as well now where I'm like, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:26:34 I think it's going to be a surprise to me what lands. I love that line you use because I've never heard someone say it like that, the idea of someone who doesn't find it complicated to do life with me. Like that's such a great way of putting it. Yeah. Like I think we're all looking for something that feels a little bit simpler. Not that it's easy. I think just to be clear that I don't think relationships or love or any of that is easy,

Starting point is 00:27:00 but you want it to be a bit simpler. You want it to make sense because the rest of life is so chaotic and crazy and intense and full of pressure. And you want to come home to something that feels a little bit lighter than that. And deeper as well, not lighter in the sense of it doesn't have any... gravitas or depth. It's a joy to make time for my friends. It's a joy to make time for my partner. It's a joy to organize things and plan around my work schedule. I'm the type of person when I, when I wrap at work, I'm so excited to go home to my partner and see them, share my day, spend time with them. Everyone's like that when I say, I'm the type of person. Everyone feels that way.

Starting point is 00:27:41 No, not everyone. I think that. But I think that to have that, joy and excitement to make time and make memories and all of those things, it comes from a place of capacity. And I think I just really believe in myself and I believe I deserve that kind of love. I believe I deserve that kind of life. And that self-belief has led me to where I am in my career. And I think maybe I've had experiences where maybe there's a mismatch in that capacity. I think it comes from a place of self-belief. If you believe, that you deserve all those things, that happiness, that joy, you will make it happen. We're manifesting it right now for you, right here, we're on purpose.

Starting point is 00:28:24 This is the moment that we're going to come back to when it all happens. And you're saying, in this moment you're locked in, you channeled. It's an important part of all of our lives. Like, it's such a real thing. And you are looking for someone who has a frequency match with you. And that frequency of generosity, that frequency of reciprocation, that frequency of reciprocation, that frequency of the joy and the excitement that you're saying that you want to feel for someone when you go back, for someone to receive that and for someone to give that back.

Starting point is 00:28:53 Yeah. And that requires you to live in that at all times because then you'll know. Yes. It's like if you're already living in that, when you go to meet someone or see someone, you'll know where they stand and how they feel and whether they're meeting you there or not. And this idea of, you know, everyone's always being honest with you. Yeah. And sometimes we're like, oh, they're not being honest with me.

Starting point is 00:29:15 because they're not telling me what's going on. And it's like, well, that's their honesty. Their truth is they're not telling you what's going on because that's who they are. And so everyone's always being honest with you. If you only saw it that way, then no one's actually being dishonest because they're showing you what they can give, who they are and where they're at right now. And that's all they can give you. It's something I still struggle with, to be honest, because it's almost like I have like

Starting point is 00:29:39 a piece of cake that's just the best. I preference cake quite a lot. And I'm like, oh my gosh, it's so, it's delicious, it tastes so good, this is the best cake ever. If someone's not willing to try, I find it really hard because I'm like, if you did, I think you'd really like it. I've got to like, so stupid. What I'm trying to say is I think I still struggle with understanding where someone else is at with their journey of self-belief and space within their heart. has nothing to do with me. Yes.

Starting point is 00:30:16 You're my friend, my brother. I've been on the phone to having conversations about this before, and that's something that I still struggle with to just not take it personally or make it about me. And I think, you know, sitting here saying this now, it makes sense and it resonates. But it's something, it's like a muscle I need to exercise, for sure. What do you think is the difference between, like, a failure at work?

Starting point is 00:30:38 Because that we can take personally, but it seems like you don't. And then you've got a failure or rejection in relationship. and we take that much more personally, all of us, I think. Yeah. And so talk to me about the difference for you in both of those. Like if you have a door shot on you at work or an audition doesn't go well, I feel like being an actor, all I ever hear from all my actor friends is just like, God, I thought I was going to get this project and then it didn't work out.

Starting point is 00:31:00 But talk to me about the difference between failing at work and failing in life or love almost. And of course, it's not failure, but at least that's how it feels. Rejection. Yeah, rejection. Yeah. Since I was a kid, it was written. I would never, I've not once said if it doesn't work out. I've never, oh, I've said it now, but like as an example, but I never, that thought I wouldn't even let it enter my mind.

Starting point is 00:31:24 It was written that all my dreams within my career were going to have opportunity to come true. That's so powerful. I love that. It came from self-belief. I just wanted it so much. And I knew that I was capable. That was very internal. So any time I got rejected or someone didn't.

Starting point is 00:31:43 believe in me professionally, it just, it touched the surface. It didn't erupt my internal belief at all. Sometimes I'd just be like, well, they're dumb to not see, like, what I'm capable of. And, like, I got rejected so many times from, like, agencies or casting directors or whatever, directors when I was in my early 20s. But I never worried about it because I was just like, well, I know that the right people are going to see my vision. And it did happen. And it's, you know, in no way have I achieved everything that I've wanted to. I've got a long way to go. And it makes me feel badass and confident. And so it's something that no one can take away from me. It's something that I probably should practice applying to my personal life. But the difference is the whole thing I was saying about it just touches the surface, rejection or disappointment professionally. When it's your personal life, friends or a partner that you love, you are giving them your internal. belief. I'm sharing my belief with them. If someone doesn't understand that, rejects it. For me, it's very emotional. I find it hard to just be like, oh, it didn't really affect me or I just touched

Starting point is 00:32:56 the surface because it's something that I don't give very often. And when I do, my self-belief changed my life and it, it coloured my world. So when I give it to someone else and they don't want it or they're scared of it or it's too much for them or, or it's too much for them, or or whatever it might be, which is totally fine. I find it really hard to not let it shatter my world. And that's okay. I used to see personal Simone and professional Simone as two different people. You've said this before, like you've got your avatar and whatever.

Starting point is 00:33:29 And actually, maybe something that I should try is just seeing it as one person, like that confident, badass, unstoppable kind of attitude I can have. maybe I should just apply it more in relationships, but relationships really soften me. If I love someone, I want them to be part of that self-belief. I loved what you said, that relationship soften you, I think that's why we want it. It's because you don't have to be this badass, focused.

Starting point is 00:34:00 You don't have to be that way in love. You can use some of those skills and tools, but really what we want to do is just rest and be embraced and be held and hold back and be at peace. telling you this last night. I was talking to a client the other day and I was like, do you believe you'll be a billionaire? And they were like, yes. And this is a female client. I was like, do you believe you'll be a billionaire? And she goes, yes. And I go, do you believe that there is the biggest, boldest, most beautiful love out there for you? She was like, I'm not sure.

Starting point is 00:34:27 I love what you said. I think love, we all want it to be soft. But it's the belief needs to be as strong in it existing and it being possible as we do in our career goals or our dreams or whatever it may be. It's like, can I hold the same belief for my love life, even though my love life will look very different, because it will be softer, it will be peaceful, it will be less driven focus. You don't want your love life to be like work. No, yeah. Yeah. And so I think, yeah, that balance is really, really easyful to hear. What's something that you used to value in a partner, but you don't value anymore. Someone may say, I used to value someone who was always there for me. And now I actually value a lot of interdependence where like they don't need to always be there. They're going to be busy

Starting point is 00:35:13 sometimes. I'm going to be busy sometimes. And we realize that that's what life actually looks like. Or something more superficial. Like I used to value someone who always picked up the bill on the first day and now I don't because I want it to be an equal partnership. That's a more superficial example. or on the deepest level, it's like, I used to value someone who believed in my dreams, and now I don't want someone who believes in my dreams, I can believe in my dreams, but I want someone who's cheering me on while I'm doing it.

Starting point is 00:35:39 I think humans are, they're so layered, and the people I've fallen in love with, I've also fallen in love with their flaws. So, for example, I used to really value the funny guy, and now maybe I don't want to go for that. But actually, I can't honestly say that. because I was so proud to be in love with someone so funny and so charismatic and actually maybe deeper beneath that, they were quite anxious and quiet or shy or slightly insecure or whatever it

Starting point is 00:36:14 might be. But it wasn't something that I saw as like a, oh, a red flag. I just thought it was a beautiful thing. I think I just definitely value someone who no one's perfect, but who has who has a relationship with themselves that's healthy. Because I think if you can understand yourself, look in the mirror, understand who you are, or you're just willing to sit with the discomfort of your own journey and expanding who you are, all these different things. I think those are the kind of people I really can click with

Starting point is 00:36:46 because that's life. And I think that's something that I've learned ever since my early 20s, but only because I decided to do that for myself. I want to grow. I wanted to be a bit of a bit of, version of myself. There were aspects of myself that I wanted to get rid of. So I'm kind of reverse answering your question in a way. No, but I hear what you're saying. You're saying that I want to embrace someone's flaws and the parts of them that they're still exploring and understanding.

Starting point is 00:37:15 And at the same time, you need someone who's working on that part as well and aware of those parts as well and trying to because ultimately you can't carry those forever by yourself. And I think a lot of people do that in long-term relationships where they think they're making space for their partner's flaws, but actually they're just carrying them. And then eventually that weight breaks them down because they go, well, I can't. I can't do this without you because they're yours. And if you're not going to carry them and only I'm going to carry them, well, then I'm carrying myself and you. Yeah. And then eventually that's going to wear away and I'm not going to be able to hold that much Wait. That's something I've had to learn because my stamina can like overtake and be like, I'll do it. I'll carry both of us. But again, that comes from a place of self-believe of like, I've done it. I've done it for myself. And I'll show you how good it can be. And going back to your values question, like at work when people ask me, oh, what's your dream project or what's on your bucket list? And I always say, okay, here's a rough example of what I'd love for.

Starting point is 00:38:21 to do in music or in my movies or other things. But there's never going to be the perfect project. Like with the dream director, dream time, dream location, dream cast, all these things. And then for it to get greenlit and financed and for a pandemic not to happen and all these things, it's never, I don't believe it's ever like going to happen like that. It's, you meet opportunities and you surrender to it and you open yourself up to it. And you're like, oh, this is kind of my dream project for all these different things. It may not have this one thing that I wanted in it, but it's still amazing. And I think I'm like that when it comes to meeting people. I get taken by surprise quite a lot. And I think for me, first and foremost, it's born out of a connection.

Starting point is 00:39:06 And I am quite drawn to people that are quite different to me in a way. Yeah. So I guess it's hard for me to even list like perfect scenarios or things of a person might be. I think my values will always be kindness, you know, a zest for life. I think that the opposite of depression is creation, right? So wanting, yeah, like, let's create together. Let's go on this journey together. Let's create a home together, a family together. Let's create experiences with our friends together. Even like, it's Sunday and we've got no planned. Let's create a cozy day together. let's that's making something like you're moving forward in life and you're building and you're you're just going forward but it's the opposite of being stagnant and not giving something a go

Starting point is 00:39:57 and I definitely am drawn to people that are like let's just do it let's give it a go I think about that all the time I'm like really what you're looking for as a co-creator yeah is not feeling like either of you are carrying everything or all of it but that you're co-creating and there's so much magic when that happens. I wanted to ask you, obviously, you released your first EP this year called Songs I Road, New York. I got to hear it early on. You were sending me stuff. I was like, this is incredible. And I wanted to ask, what was it about, was it New York that brought that out of you, that you've always been a singer, you've sung since you were young, but was it like, was it being in New York? Was it certain experiences? What brought that out of you to do that here

Starting point is 00:40:39 and to obviously name it songs I wrote in New York? So it was something that was in development for about three years. Fraser T. Smith really reared me and developed me and really like guided me into songwriting and helping me discover and develop the kind of sound I wanted. And he always had that belief in me and that patience with me because I was in my lyric writing and my songwriting, I think I was trying quite hard to be bombastic, to be edgy in my lyrics or to be a poet and all these things. which is fine, that's part of the exploration. But when I moved to New York, something happened where everything in my lyric writing

Starting point is 00:41:23 and what was coming out of my heart just felt so simple. And suddenly it just became a story and a narrative that a lot of people could relate to. And it was a narrative I was so proud of. Moving to New York was a massive turning point in my life. it really helped me find my confidence in a larger way. I was meeting new people in, you know, summer in New York was just, it's the perfect setting to write music for me.

Starting point is 00:41:55 And I got very lucky working in the studio with Dan and Toulou, who are musicians I wrote my songs with, one of my songs with, New York got me out of my head, because my body will always have better ideas than my head. And it really, every time I'm in New York, I don't stop. and which is a good and a bad thing but when it comes to making music it just everything felt so instinctual

Starting point is 00:42:19 it feels like these songs are so personal especially someone who knows about your personal life but I'm like when you listen to the music it feels so raw like did it ever feel scary so scary so I I've never felt so nervous in my life really? Yeah yeah

Starting point is 00:42:36 everything you've done everything I've done when a movie comes out the studio, the studio will protect me. If something goes wrong, it's on, it's usually, it can be on someone else. Or if it's on me, then, I don't know. I've, I've been quite protected. I'm not perfect in any way. I'm not flawless.

Starting point is 00:42:55 I'm sure I've had quite a few bodies of work that have come out where my performance isn't maybe up to scratch. But my music, it was all me. It was so exposing. And I felt so, nervous. I was quite a difficult person to be around for those few weeks. Was that because the music was also so personal? Was that a big part of it? I was scared it was going to be misunderstood. But anyone that listened to it was like, what are you talking about? Like, this is so positive.

Starting point is 00:43:28 I think it was also, I was releasing at a time where I was still on a journey of finding my peace with certain things. So I think it was a, it was a mixed. of that. So Free's my favorite song. Yeah. But I picked out a lyric from tragic romantic. Diane Warren wrote that. Oh, no way. Yeah, I didn't write tragic. Okay. But I'm interested to hear. Yeah, this is a lyric though, but I mean, you put this in there. So red flags look like roses to me. I keep wanting what I don't need. Keep running to what I should run from. It's always the same old story. I'm good with what's not good for me. Why was that an important lyric to have in there then, even if Diane wrote it.

Starting point is 00:44:11 There was a kind of tongue-in-cheek atmosphere around these lyrics, right? And I think the title, Tragic Romantic, it's quite dramatic. And I think it was kind of a like, well, here we go again. Another one bites the dust kind of thing. We were talking about this earlier that like maybe addictions are too strong of a word, but just that I love falling in love and I love that journey and my heart's going to get broken. but it's worth it's worth it for all the highs. And, you know, I overlooked the red flags because even if I get one petal of the rose, it's worth it. I don't think it's something that I practice

Starting point is 00:44:52 in my daily life now. But I think there was something quite tongue and cheek about it that I felt a lot of people could relate to, especially my community of women. Tragic Romantic was, I'm, you know, it was something that I felt nervous about. It's an amazing song. And I was, I'm so honored that Diane gave it to me and I worked with it on her. But I always want my message to be positive for young women and to have positive morals and lessons and values. And tragic romantic, there are aspects where I was like, I don't have to take it so seriously. And it's a story. And it's a chapter of a story. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Home should be a place that feels like a sanctuary, a space that truly reflects who you are.

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Starting point is 00:46:35 Tell me about free. Free, Zike. One of my favorite songs. Every time I talk about it with people about the story of the writing and the message behind it, it just makes me feel this really delicate kind of happiness. I wrote it with Dan and Toulou within like four hours. And I remember the day so vividly. I think it was on a Monday and I went in the studio and I was telling them about this experience that I had over the weekend.

Starting point is 00:47:05 And I was just so full of happiness. And I was like, here, you have some happiness. You have some happiness. Like it just felt so it was just overflowing. And so we started writing the song, and they were so excited that I was sharing my story with them. And Dan, when we got to writing the Middle Eight, the bridge of the song, I'll never forget it. He sat down on his chair and he looked at me. And he was like, you know, the real acid test for writing a love song like this.

Starting point is 00:47:35 like free is if you can write down the lyrics on a sheet of paper and read it out almost like it's a speech to this person. Maybe it's your wedding day or whenever it might be and you're just saying the lyrics as if it was a speech and it all makes sense. And something just clicked in my head as soon as he said that and it freaked me out as well. Like this experience was so fresh and there I was in the studio making this very confessional song. And though the lyrics are incredibly simple, when someone listens to it, it's very easy listening, soulful, warm, I hope, and lyrics are so simple, but free was about, for me, it was all about gratitude. I was saying this to you last night at dinner, I think in day-to-day life, happiness can remain quite

Starting point is 00:48:27 dormant within ourselves. And sometimes we have experiences. or we meet people that just bring it alive and remind you of it. And it was just one of the best happiest experiences of my life. And I was so proud of it. And I was so proud of myself of how much love I had to give and that I saw and believed in. And Free was about documenting that. So that happy memory could just live forever, like gave it wings and it could just live forever. And then I ended up writing quite a good song.

Starting point is 00:48:58 Like my whole team were like, damn, this is a good. song. I was with a band doing live rehearsals the other week and they've worked with like some pretty, pretty big artists and they were like, this is a good song girl. And I was like so proud of it because it came from a place of just pure, pure love. I love that. Yeah, you feel it when you hear it. And I've loved all the acoustic versions you're posting on TikTok too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. It's great to see it like in that raw version of you just hanging out at home and singing along and it's What has allowing yourself to sing and share your voice and write done for you differently than acting? Like what does it do for you as a person, as a human?

Starting point is 00:49:42 I think I've kind of made my own opportunity to have space for my voice to be heard. In the film industry, I'm still working really hard and grafting to get to projects, which I know will happen for me where I can really showcase what I'm capable of. and I have had many opportunities like that but there's even more that I can do and sometimes it takes time because like we were saying it's finding the thing that perfectly aligns

Starting point is 00:50:11 at the right time but with my music singing came before acting for me I was singing since I was like six years old I love it so much and I never wanted to look back and feel regretful that I didn't make it happen

Starting point is 00:50:25 and I have a team of people that really believe in me and I've been working with people that really believe in me. So I'm very lucky in that sense. But yeah, it gives me more opportunity to use my voice creatively because I know myself more than anyone. So I'm not limited in that way. I respect you so much for doing it. I think it's so easy to get caught in our lanes. Yeah. And we are living at a time when multi-hyphenates can exist and people are doing more than one thing. But still, I feel like it's so easy for people to label us and for us to label ourselves and say, this is all I am. And if I'm...

Starting point is 00:51:00 pivot, then people won't take me as seriously in this area. And I completely disagree with that because it's almost like, if you've already achieved what you've achieved, the joy is in trying everything you always wanted. And I often say that to my team where I'm like, I'm already living in bonus land. I want to do everything. Like, I want to try stuff that my child itself couldn't believe I'd have an opportunity to do this because otherwise I'm going to regret it. At the end of my life, I'm going to look back. No one's going to remember me anyway. And so no one's going to care. I'm really. In a good way, in a good way. I mean, in like a genuine way. Most people are not going to remember the biggest musicians of all time after 100 to 200 years. Like, you just won't. You know, when you look at history, like the only people that have really lasted in history are like Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Muhammad. You know, you look at like religion and spirituality or people who changed the world or the stoics from 2,000 years ago. But you don't really remember people beyond certain time periods. And it's a good thing to remember. Because it takes the pressure off and you go, oh, God, I can do so many things.

Starting point is 00:52:04 Yeah. And I should do what my heart's calling me to. I'm not saying do things because you can. I'm saying do things because you've always known that that's who you are, which is what you're saying. We have a game for you, Simone. Okay. This game is called Would You Rather Dating Game? Okay.

Starting point is 00:52:18 So we want to find out because we are trying to manifest this for you today on the show. Okay. So dating game, would you rather Simone Ashley? Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Would you rather date someone who has never been in a series of? relationship or someone who just got out of a 10-year relationship. I'm gravitating towards dating someone that has been in a long-term relationship.

Starting point is 00:52:39 Yes. But again, who knows? It's a game. It's a game, Smith. No, no, no, no, go on. I'm going to let you philosophize. No, I like you when you become a philosopher's. No, I mean, you never know. You could date someone that's never been in a long-term relationship, and it could be dynamite.

Starting point is 00:52:56 It could be the best thing ever. Cool. What do you think? I think I gravitate towards someone who knows what commitment looks like to. If it's been enough time. If it's been enough time, I think that's a really important part of that answer. Because if it's immediate, then that's unhealthy. But if it's been enough time, I gravitate towards that answer because I just feel like

Starting point is 00:53:14 that person knows what it looks like to commit and grow and build. Yeah, yeah. And as experience. It depends what age you are as well. We're talking about people in their late 20s, mid-30s. I think that's, if you haven't had a long-term relationship, what's the reason. And again, they could be a really good reason. Yeah. And that's fair too. Would you rather be with someone who falls for you very quickly or someone who takes things extremely slow? I think, look,

Starting point is 00:53:38 falling very quickly, I think I'm someone that does that and I gravitate towards that. I think it's about a choice. If it's two people making a choice and it's like, I feel this, I'm ready, let's go for it. I think when it's like, you fall quickly and then someone's like, oh, I don't know, I'm changing my mind now. Like, I don't know. I've got a very big open heart. So it's hot. I don't know. This game is hard. You didn't great. There's no, there's no right answer. The good thing about the game is there's no right answer. Okay. All right. Would you rather date someone who plans every date six weeks in advance or someone who prioritizes being spontaneous? Spontaneous. Oh, yeah. But you're the planner though. You were like... I'm the planner, but I really gel well

Starting point is 00:54:19 with people that are spontaneous because it gets me out my head and encourages me. Yeah. So you're going to plan Yeah. Their gift six months in advance. Yeah. But yeah. I love spontaneity. Would you rather date someone who knows exactly what they want or someone who is totally open to where life takes them? Totally open.

Starting point is 00:54:36 Would you rather be with someone who wants to spend every free moment together or someone who gives you lots of independence? Lots of independence. Why? Because I need that. With my lifestyle, I can't. So they're taking you every moment going, Simone, where are you? No, because I think it's attractive as well. If someone is like I'm doing my thing.

Starting point is 00:54:54 thing because I think then suddenly I feel responsible. Yeah. And that's not cool. We're just giving clues to the public. That's what we're doing here. This is like we've got a lot of people who watch the show, got a lot of everyone, got a lot of celebrities, got a lot of athletes, you know, so we're got to get it. We're going to get this out there.

Starting point is 00:55:13 Yeah. Would you rather date someone who insists on talking through every disagreement immediately or someone who always needs a night to think first? It depends. Again, it's all kinds. I'm like, let's talk about it. That's not that hard. I'm a let's talk about a person, too, yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:27 Yeah. Would you rather date someone who's your biggest cheerleader or someone who's your most honest critic? Biggest cheerleader. Yeah. Like, I've got so many people that can be my honest critic, my friend, my team, like, you don't have to bullshit me, but yeah, be my cheerleader.

Starting point is 00:55:44 100%. Yeah, you're right. You can find other people to do the other one. That's the point. You can find people in your life who'll be really honest with you, but you want your partner to have you that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:55 Would you rather be the one to say, I love you first, or have your partner say it before you? My last experience, I wasn't the one to say it first, and I kind of liked that. I was like, okay, cool. Protects you. So that's the way we go. And then do you say it back immediately, or do you wait? Oh, it's all within context, Jay. It's all within context.

Starting point is 00:56:17 But, yeah, I mean, look, if I felt the same way, then yeah. Or eventually. Eventually. So you'll make someone wait. Someone could say, I love you. you like literally wouldn't say anything to them for seven days. No, no, no, no, okay. Within, it's all within context.

Starting point is 00:56:29 It's all within context. But, okay, let's say in this, in this moment, if someone, if I was with someone, I felt the same way and they said, I love you, yeah, I'd say it back. Okay, we're just throwing it out there. Throwing you out there. I'm just, I'm just being a big brother, you know, like helping you out here. That's what we're doing. I appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:56:44 Yeah, that's what I do. Samad, I think one thing I wanted to talk to you about was this idea that I feel people feel, especially like, you're 31 now, you said. And it's like turning 30. a big deal for people. And I feel society, social media has made it an even bigger deal for people. One of the biggest things I think people worry about, even when it comes to envy, comparison, friendship, one of the biggest themes is timelines. And I think we all had a timeline when we were growing up or we saw timelines around us. Figure out your dream job by 30, get married by 35,

Starting point is 00:57:15 have kids by 40, and maybe that's all pushed back by 10 years. Maybe 10, 20 years ago, that was even five years earlier, whatever it may have been. Talk to me about how you have. Talk to me about how you handle comparing timelines with friends, family and people around you? Not perfectly. In my family, I'm somewhat the anomaly. My brother, he just had a baby. I know. Congrats.

Starting point is 00:57:37 Thanks. He's so cute. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got opposite lifestyles, right? Like, he got married, got the dog, had a baby, all of those things. And I'm so, so proud of him and happy for him. And he's such an amazing example.

Starting point is 00:57:54 just moved to New York and I'm making movies, making music, traveling all over the place. And sometimes that can feel a bit scary. But I think you just, you got to trust it. You've got to trust your journey. You've got to have faith in your journey. Don't compare and despair. I think it's hard as a young woman as well. You know, the 30s are all like when you're going to have kids or all these kind of things. I think in my moments of where I'm feeling low, I can put pressure on myself and be like, wow, the next person.

Starting point is 00:58:29 I've got to be really careful. I've got to do all these things. I've put a timeline on my years and like set out a plan. But when I'm feeling the best version of myself, I just let it go. And I'm like so much gratitude for the life I have. And I just manifest it, trust it, trust it, trust it. And my time will come for my people.

Starting point is 00:58:49 personal life or the dreams that I want to have personally that will happen when it's meant to happen. I've seen people who got married early, then had kids late, and seen people who got married late and had kids immediately. Yeah. And I've seen people who crushed their career and then found love late. And then I've seen people who found love in their 20s and then figured out their career at 40. I feel like the timeline thing is such a messy indicator of success. Yeah. Because anything can speed up, slow down, or 180 at any point. And you see that with people at all stages. Like, you know, when I watch your career trajectory, it's incredible.

Starting point is 00:59:27 Like, it's so awesome. I'm such a proud friend and just watching you just achieve all these incredible things. And do them so phenomenally well. Carry yourself with grace. Put yourself out there. I met your friends. They're amazing people. Like, just there's so much of your life that you've got right.

Starting point is 00:59:45 And I think sometimes people usually rush the last piece of the puzzle. and that can almost crumble everything because you already work so hard to build all these facets of your life up and what you just said when you trust yourself and you trust yourself on the last piece of the puzzle you start to recognise it's not the last piece there's always going to be more pieces that keep getting added to this beautiful picture that you're building

Starting point is 01:00:09 but when you think oh gosh this is the last piece I need to figure it out you just try and like squish anything there and then that can start to affect and disjointed everything else everything else. And so I think it's so fascinating, whether it's career, whether it's love, whether it's friends, whether it's family. I've seen people who found love, who have a great career, and then they're doing therapy with their mom at 60 years old, and that's what's healing their whole experience, right? It shouldn't be a race to success in terms of having, settling down, finding a person, marriage, career. I don't think it should be a race to success.

Starting point is 01:00:41 It should be a race to just finding peace and happiness. And that can take place at so many different places in everyone's life. Have you ever lived that experience of getting to a place where you're like, this is it? And then it wasn't. Because I imagine, yeah, you've talked about this idea of like nearly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk to me about that.

Starting point is 01:00:57 The neelies are the ones that really, I find hard to process and to make peace with and to understand and to let go. Because, again, because I'm such a dreamer and I'm like, well, why not? Like, we had all the ingredients. Like, it was a nearly. But again, if we apply it to what I did in my work life, you know, it took me some time to really understand this. But if I didn't get a job or if it was a nearly, I really learned quite quickly that it was opening doors to something else. And when it came to work, it's so easy to understand that and accept that.

Starting point is 01:01:36 And it happened for me. There were so many things in my early 20s. I nearly got. And I'm so glad it didn't happen. So glad it didn't happen. Because if it did, I think things would have been maybe a little bit more complicated or different. Yeah, I think in my personal life, because you just want it, I want it right now kind of thing. So when it's a nearly, it's hard to practice that acceptance and patience.

Starting point is 01:02:00 Is there a particular example you can think of? I could count on like forehand the amount of projects in my early 20s where I was like, I got to the final rounds. I got to the screen test where I flew over and did the chemistry read. And it was like, oh my gosh, I was dreaming about it. it and I was imagining what it was going to be like and I could taste it. And I didn't get it. I look back and I'm so glad it didn't happen because things that did end up changing my life, I probably wouldn't even been available to do them. When opportunities don't happen, it's giving space for something else. And it's kind of an annoying thing to say because everyone

Starting point is 01:02:36 says that and it's really hard to trust it and believe it. But from experience work wise, oh my gosh, that I put money on it. Nine years ago, I got contacted by a production company in L.A., which I lived in New York at the time, where we are right now. And they were like, Jay, we want to produce a TV show with you. We'll go and pitch it out to all the big streamers and production companies and everything else and come and do it. So I was like traveling to L.A. on my own money, which I didn't have a lot of at the time.

Starting point is 01:03:07 I was coming up with a sizzle reel, coming up with a deck, figuring it all out on top of my day job, flew out when I did meetings, came back, flew out when I did pitches. And I remember being in a meeting with Netflix. And Netflix turned down my pitch. This was nine years ago. And I would never have started on purpose if they didn't turn it down. Yeah, yeah. Because I would have got this show.

Starting point is 01:03:28 Maybe it would have run for two, three seasons. Yeah. Obviously, I wouldn't have been in charge of it. It wouldn't have been my show. I wouldn't have owned it. And now I'm like, now we're back on Netflix. And it's just so, but it's like it's my show. I own the show.

Starting point is 01:03:40 I get to decide who I sit with. I get to decide who I talk to. I get to decide what it looks like, everything. And I'm like, wow, like that moment when I got rejected, it felt like... You couldn't see all of this. I couldn't see all of this. I had no idea. And I was like, oh, well, who knows?

Starting point is 01:03:55 Like, maybe I'm not made for this in this way and whatever. You can tell all these stories. And then you go, no, actually, that shunning was the best, nine years later, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. Yeah. And I think it's so hard because we kind of live in these little tiny cycles of, it's the worst three months of my life. It's the worst six months of my life.

Starting point is 01:04:11 And it's like actually if you zoom out, you look at life. And you keep working and you keep focused, things will work out and make more sense. If it's meant to be for you, it will happen. Also careful what you wish for sometimes. So clear. I nearly wasn't able to do Bridgeton. Because? Before the pandemic started, before everything shut down, I was on Little Mermaid.

Starting point is 01:04:35 I have quite a small role in that. So proud to be part of that production. But yes, I was one of the. mermaid sisters, really small role I had like one line, but they had booked me to film in Sardinia the spring, summer of 2021. And because of the pandemic, like, things got delayed and delayed and delayed. And when I got Bridgeton, they said no. I think they kind of, they didn't actually look into the details of it of like what Bridgeton was, the scale of my character, like, how big it was for me. No one knew who I was. No one really cared. And they said no. And luckily, my manager at the

Starting point is 01:05:14 time, my team really eloquently fought for it. And they were like, this, this is going to change her life. You've got to let her go. Over like two days filming somewhere and something, you've got to let her go. And yeah, they, thank God, Rob Marshall, let me do it. And yeah. And so careful what you wish for. I say that as an example of you might really want something and you get it, and it could really mess up what happens in the future. Those are those sliding door moments. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's why you've got to be so intentional in those moments

Starting point is 01:05:47 and be really careful about what you're really trying to build. Yeah. Because in one sense, one's bigger in the little mermaid feels bigger in the moment, but then one's bigger for you. Yes, exactly. And it's better for you and what you're building. And be careful to not emotionally react to, desperation, which is a really human thing to feel. There is no shame in feeling desperate.

Starting point is 01:06:08 Like, as an artist, I feel desperate all the time, all the time, hungry all the time. And I think, you know, look, we're talking purely about work. I think I'm in a very privileged place to sit here and talk about this. But when you're desperate and you really want something and you're hungry for something, sometimes you can make decisions that in the long term don't suit you. So that's something I've really learned with work as well. What would you say to someone who feels behind in life? I think, you know, you could say the things like, be grateful for what you already have,

Starting point is 01:06:43 or that's going to come for you, just believe in yourself, work really hard, and it'll happen for you. But when you feel behind in life, it's something that's quite deep. Feeling behind in life comes from a place of maybe you have to practice what life really is, you know, practicing how can you just be, you know,

Starting point is 01:07:04 and not have all the things that make you feel successful or confident or in control, how can you just be and be okay with it? Because I don't think there's an answer to that, I think. We're always going to go through feeling behind, feeling like someone's got something better than me, feeling disappointed, and there's no quick fix because sometimes things are out of control and sometimes you just got to be. And if you can be okay with that and be at peace and be happy with that, no matter what's going on, which is, you know, really hard.

Starting point is 01:07:37 I'm not perfect at all. But that's what my answer, my real answer would be. The biggest problem with feeling behind and looking up is that one day you'll be ahead and then looking over your shoulder and both positions are just not great to be. Whereas if you learn to just be where you are and recognize, let me get comfortable with this, let me understand me. and me, then whether you're ahead or behind, it won't matter to you, whether you're number one or number 100 on the list, it won't matter to you because you were comfortable in your own skin. And if you're number one, one day you'll be number two and one day you'll be number three. And if you're number three, one day you may get to two or one. And that's always going to

Starting point is 01:08:15 just move and change. Exactly. But I think to that point, maybe you do get to a place where you have all the things you want, but you're not happy. So even if you are feeling behind in life, like how can you find what does happiness mean to you? You know, how can you find happiness without all the things to fix it? What's the biggest pressure you've had to let go of in your 30s? I was going to say, I think, getting married, but I don't feel that pressure at all, to be honest, from my family or anyone. I can make it feel like a pressure when I'm feeling frustrated

Starting point is 01:08:49 or I feel like there's, you know, something I'm doing that's stopping myself. I think it's a want and a desire to find someone. And I think I'm trying to be careful to not turn that into pressure. I love that answer because what's interesting is you can want the same thing, but it can either feel like a pressure or it can feel like a pursuit, something you're excited about, the desire part that you just mentioned there. And often what we do is we go, I want it, I don't want it, right? So we oscillate between like we think the point is, if I want something too badly,

Starting point is 01:09:18 whatever it may be, work, career, love, we go, okay, I better go to the other end and not want it. And it's not that. It's actually going from how can I turn it from being a pressure to a pursuit? and a desire and an excitement and joy and abundance because it's okay to want it. I'm not wrong for wanting it. And I think sometimes we make ourselves feel, no, no, no, I shouldn't want it,

Starting point is 01:09:38 I should just forget about it. And it's like, no, no, no, how do I purify it? To want it from a place of abundance and joy and bliss and excitement as opposed to wanting it from pressure, desperation, stress, frustration. Exactly. It makes me think, you've seen Shawshank Redemption?

Starting point is 01:09:53 Yeah, of course, yeah. I can't remember the quote, but. There's that quote about time and pressure because the whole story is about them chipping away and it's taking time in terms of geology, like pressure to get through this wall. Geology is the study of pressure and time. That's all it takes really, pressure and time. His dream was the escape. Yes. So it always inspired me and it reminded me of that because if that's my dream, then how do we take time and pressure and not make pressure this bad, dark work? Simone, it's been such a wonderful time talking to you, as always.

Starting point is 01:10:32 And we get to do this. I'm lucky. I get to do this offline with you all the time. Yeah. But the last time I saw you, apart from last night at dinner, was I got to come to the premiere of Devil Wears Prada too. Yeah, yeah. Which I'm such a big fan of the first one. And so you giving me that opportunity to come and crash with your team and come to the premiere that you were such a big part of the movie.

Starting point is 01:10:51 Thank you. It was unbelievable. The movie was awesome. I loved it. I thought it was like a brilliant sequel. It was so awesome. at the premiere, being with you, seeing you be celebrated and, you know, and you living off of crazy little amounts of sleep.

Starting point is 01:11:04 I had no idea how you didn't even get to go to your own afterparty and had to run to London the next morning. But, I mean, being a part of that, you've talked about it so much, I've seen so many of the interviews, it must have been so special. Now when you look back on it, because the movie's out, and of course it's going to go out on streaming soon. But now that the movie's already out, when you look back on an experience like that, What do you remember?

Starting point is 01:11:26 Changed my life, changed my world, professionally and personally. I remember every detail of that experience. I remember everything. I've just felt so proud to be part of something of that caliber with that cast and to be working with David and Aline. And just one of those experiences and moments in my life that just I really, I've never felt so present in my life. best experience of my life professionally, but my world around me, moving to New York and what was happening to me around that time,

Starting point is 01:12:05 the happiest I've ever been in my life. So forever, so much gratitude towards that. I remember getting the call. So many people have asked me, like, oh, apparently there's this video of you when you get the call of getting this movie. And we started talking around this time. Our friendship was just, like, starting to grow.

Starting point is 01:12:25 And I was going through a few experiences. And when I got this call, I was just so happy. And I was very emotional. And I've never shared the video with anyone, like, because I just, I find it a bit weird doing that. But I'll give it to you. Oh, please. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can do what you want with it.

Starting point is 01:12:45 No way. Oh, my God. Wow. You haven't shown it to me before either. No, no. I don't think you've sent it to me, yeah. No, because it's really emotional. It's a lot.

Starting point is 01:12:53 That's beautiful. But I remember that because. happiness was just surrounding me that year. I'm very, very grateful for it. Well, once I've seen it, and once we talk about it, I'll decide what I do with it. That is very sweet of you, and that's beautiful. I remember what a challenging time it was, and so I can't imagine. And it's always like that in life. Like, there's one door opening, and other closing, another, you're trying to break down and other, you know, it's, and I've always felt like as your friend, like you've just navigated it well as best as you can.

Starting point is 01:13:25 can as a human really. It's, you know, and your mission's so clear of how you want to inspire others and help others. And I think that keeps you. But I think to that point, like anyone listening to this, I speak a lot about these amazing moments and how happy I am or I was and the gratitude towards it. But that is something I want to emphasize. Like, my life is not that all the time. I'm a young woman going through the journey of a young woman, you know, and there's ups and downs and there's fails and there's moments of darkness but if there's anything I do want to share with people is to inspire them to practice

Starting point is 01:14:03 remembering the happy moments and being grateful for them because that's your light in the dark. Yeah, I always say that we remember the bad times more than the good times because when something bad happens we cry for a month and when something good happens we celebrate for a day and that's why what you're saying is you've got to shift it

Starting point is 01:14:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, if something good happens, we're like, have one night and then it's over and then back to work tomorrow. But if something bad happens, you're like talking about with your friends for a month, you're crying about it. It defines like three months of your life. And that's why you remember it more. And I love that reframe and shift for you. Simone, we end every interview of On Purpose with the final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum.

Starting point is 01:14:43 Okay. So, Simone, Ashley, these are your final five. Question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received? Be kind. Second question. what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? That person will always be there. Describe in one sentence each of these people, Merrill Street.

Starting point is 01:14:59 Icon. Anne Hathaway. Icon. Emily Blunt. So funny. Icon. Stanley Tucci. So funny.

Starting point is 01:15:10 Cheeky. Yeah. Simone Ashley. Your friend. I was expecting so funny on icon. And awkward. And awkward. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:19 So funny, icon, awkward. That's yours. That's my answer to this. Question number four, what helps you in your hardest moments? I'll wallow and feel about myself. But to get me out of that, I'll dream big. I'll go back to all the things I have coming up and just listening to music or going on a run or something

Starting point is 01:15:42 and just dreaming big. I'll live in my dreams for a bit. And that kind of takes me out. And then that's my mission. Yeah. Fifth of final question, we ask this to every guest. who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Be respectful. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:15:59 Be respectful would be great. You've had so many people on here that probably said something really, like, profound. No, no, no, no. People do both. Like, people say be kind and be respect. People say that. And then people come up with like, you should be locked out of your phone for the amount of minutes you use it and things like that. Like people come up with like more technical stuff. It's up to you. It doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Simone, thank you so much. much. Honestly, this was incredible. I can't, can't wait to see you again.

Starting point is 01:16:25 I'm so glad that we got to do this and kind of, I feel like it's a time capsule of our friendship. I feel like we can come back to this in like 10 years and 20 years and look back on it and be like, look what happened from, you know, this conversation, that conversation. And I hope you'll come on again in the future. But honestly, I'm so proud of you, so grateful that you exist. So excited to see what you'll continue to do in the world, the path that you're saying, the example you're saying for so many young women across the world and myself.

Starting point is 01:16:51 and people like myself, so inspiring. And thank you for being so raw, real and true. I appreciate you deeply, truly. Thank you. Thanks so much, Jay. Thank you so much.

On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Simone Ashley: “Self-Belief Changed My Life”

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