On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Sophia Bush ON: Learning To Accept Yourself In The Present While Becoming A Masterpiece

Episode Date: March 2, 2020

Jay Shetty and Sophia Bush are equally passionate about social justice and current issues. Today they sat down to talk about the path to Hollywood, the importance of grassroots involvement, and the current issues that challenge the world today. Jay Shetty and Sophia Bush cover topics that range from climate change to self confidence. You’ll also hear Bush’s advice for those who want to make a difference in their communities, but don’t know where to start. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi, I'm Brendan Francis Neum, I'm a journalist, a wanderer, and a bit of a bond-vivant, but mostly a human just trying to figure out what it's all about. And not lost is my new podcast about all those things. It's a travel show where each week I go with a friend to a new place and to really understand it, I try to get invited to a local's house for dinner. Where kind of trying to get invited to a dinner party, it doesn't always work out. Ooh, I have to get back to you. Listen to not lost on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Conquer your New Year's resolution to be more productive with the Before Breakfast Podcast. In each bite-sized daily episode, time management and productivity expert, Laura Vandercam, teaches you how to make the most of your time, both at work and at home. These are the practical suggestions you need to get more done with your day. Just as lifting weights keeps our bodies strong as we age, learning new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen to before breakfast on the iHeartRadio app, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Munga Shatekler and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want

to believe. You can find it in major league baseball, international banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The more causes I highlight, the more likely I am that a light bulb is going to go off for somebody. Because my entire audience isn't going to care about cancer, and my entire audience isn't going to care about the environment, and my entire audience isn't going to care about cancer and my entire audience isn't going to care about the environment and my entire audience isn't going to care about girls' access to primary school education and Guatemala but they're all going to care about something.

What's your name? What's your name? What's your name? Hey everyone, welcome back to on purpose. The number one health podcast in the world thanks to each and every single one of you who come back every week to listen, to learn and grow. I'm genuinely so proud of the incredible community that we've built over the last 12 months.

And it means so much to me that you're here with me this week. Now remember, make sure you're taking screenshots, saving the best things that you hear and posting them on Instagram So that me and our guest today who you already know it is But I'm about to share with you more about her You can share with us the insights that are really standing out to you I love seeing what you find fascinating from these conversations now today's guest is an American actress Activist and entrepreneur her, as you know,

is Sophia Bush. Now, she's a global education access advocate. Sophia has starred in various independent projects, shows and movies, such as the hit comedy, John Takamastai. I remember seeing that. It's great, incredible, too. I remember seeing that. And the CW's hit drama, One Tree Hill, I love that. I remember seeing that. And the CWs hit drama, One Tree Hill, I love that. And starred as Detective Erin Lindsay for four seasons on Chicago PD. Sophia was named one of the most charitable celebrities by CNN, which I absolutely love,

and devotes her free time and her work time to bettering girls' education and the environment. She inspires millions by using her personal platform and social media influence to raise awareness and funds for great causes. Sophia launched her podcast, which I thankfully got to be a guest on, Work in Progress, which is amazing if you've not yet heard it. And these discussions stem from her aha moment of realizing you are allowed to be both a masterpiece and a work in progress simultaneously. Welcome to the show, Sophia Bush.

Sophia, thank you for being here. Hi, Betty. Yeah, it's so good to see you. I know, we did it. I know, we did it finally. We've been wanting to do this for such a long time. Truly, and the last couple of months for both of us have been so crazy and when I'm home, you're gone.

And when you're home, I'm gone. I know. And we did it. But we're here. Yeah. And you've been busy trying to save the world and make such a difference, which I love seeing on social media. I'm always following you on Instagram. And we're always messaging and DMing each other about what's happening. And I love seeing the work that you're doing. And I can't wait for you to share with my audience today because I think it's so purposeful, it's so powerful, and I really respect you and admire you for what you're doing. So thank you so much for doing it

and taking the time to do it with, like I said, your free time and all of your time. It doesn't seem to be like a separation for you. It feels like it's all one. I don't know how else to do it. And I certainly know that I have more to learn and I'm always trying to see other perspectives and go deeper with the work. But yeah, I don't know how to turn it off.

We just talked about the undisaved, like I feel like. I feel like I live such a blessed life that I get to do what I love every single day. I have an incredible community that allows me to express myself and share my ideas and is ready to hear them and give me their ideas and learn from them. I get to sit with amazing people like you and pick their brains and it's, I see it as our, you know, for me, I see it as a responsibility

to want to use the platform that I have to do good through and, you know, me people are like you, but I'm gonna go, I'm gonna start in a different place today. Okay. And I'm gonna say, do you do this around, I don't think you ever get asked this. So I'm hoping, I'm hoping you don't ever get asked this. Okay.

Do you still play volleyball? Not really. I mean, the irony that I was annoyed when I had to do my first play because it meant I couldn't play volleyball that season is not lost on me because that was also sort of the year where everyone grew and I didn't as much. So I was never going to be a volleyball player. All those girls are like six feet tall. Oh my god, like professional volleyball players college player, you know, they're tall. I probably would have been, if I had stayed playing soccer, like I did an elementary school, that probably would have been if I had stayed playing soccer like I did in elementary school

That probably would have been a better idea. I didn't know you played soccer. Yeah, but I'm like the world's biggest Apesh at soccer fan. I hope that's okay to say Carol. Yeah, no like the girls on the women's national team are like you're our OG fan Like before anybody cared you cared Women it which leads do you follow the MLS? Or not really or you're not or you don't really follow? I mean, either teams that I love, and I'm a huge L.A.F.C fan, and I think I spent years watching Lionel Messi

and Abby Womback is one of those people here. Oh my God, and by the way, we're football fans. Let's clarify. It's real football. Real football. Real football, you play with your feet. Thank you. There it is.

This is important. So, yeah, no, I'm like, I'm a big fan. I had no idea. Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay, I love that. Yeah, no, I'm obviously growing up in London. I'm a huge, huge football.

Yeah, I will never forget many years ago. I was speaking at Glamrs, Women of the Year, Words in New York. And it was the year that the Women's National team had won the World Cup and everyone was just freaking out. And halfway through this sort of dinner portion of the event, Abby Womback walks up to me. And it's like, all the girls on the team are too scared to say hey to you, but they're all broke Davis fans, we think you rock and I was like, hi Abby. And I was like,

I just, I was able to speak English to you in just like one minute. And we all hung out for the rest of the night and a bunch of us have been friends ever since and that's been like the coolest thing ever. But yeah, no, I was, I was like, fully star struck. And she was like, they're star struck. I was like, no, I'm star struck. This is a whole mood for me right now. That's amazing. Yeah. I love that.

What else did you love doing growing up outdoors, especially, like what were like your fascinations? I was a really outdoorsy kid. You know, I grew up here in LA. And it's funny because people are always so surprised by that. You're one of the few people I knew that actually grew up here. Yeah, and I grew up in LA, not like Beverly Hills, not the industry really. My dad is a photographer, but I didn't know anything about what I do now.

And I grew up playing in the dirt and hiking in the mountains and visiting the ocean and spending time in the desert and going to Mexico and riding horses at a barn in Burbank. And it was really cool. And I think that's where all of my passion for the environment came from because my whole enjoyable childhood life happened outside. I think about that a lot because having moved to LA, I spend a lot more time outdoors here than I did in London. And even my parents always tried to get us to go outdoors more and we used to drive to Europe all the time.

So I was always outdoors, but when you drop here, I can only imagine how incredible it is. Like the beaches you'll play around and... I went to summer camp every summer as a kid up in the Sierra's, you know, camping in giant canvas, kind of like oversized army-looking dance, you know? And learning about nature and sleeping under the stars and yeah, it's really California's magic. I love that how you said that that's what sparked your love for the environment.

Like that's really beautiful to think of it that way that the more time we spend in nature, the more time we spend outdoors, the more we explore, the more we value what the world truly has to offer and what's being affected. And we'll definitely get on to that today. I 100% want to dive into it with you. But I wanted to start with talking about your podcast

because you launched it last year. Yeah, September. So yeah, so September you launched the podcast. I remember coming on very soon after you launched it. I absolutely loved my experience with you. You asked me questions I'd never been asked before. I loved that. And yeah, and you did.

And I still remember and I'm always trying to think about like, I don't know how to do. I'm like, I should send everyone this interview so they know, just ask me questions. I don't get asked. But, you know, I'm going to try to do the same for you today. I don't know if I'm as good as you. So I'm going to try. Oh, come on. But genuinely, like, work in progress.

I love the title. I love the experience. You made me feel super comfortable. We'd never met before that day. And you just allowed me to really express myself and share my story. And I just felt so comforted. And I think you do that for all your guests. But the thing I love about the podcast is how you talk about this simultaneously being a working progress and a masterpiece. And I know you've been asked this before, but I have to ask it for my audience. Tell us what that means to you and how you wrap your head around that for your own self and for how you share it through the podcast. So it's funny. I've been asked what made me say that,

what made me write that. And I realize, and this happens to me a lot, I think, you know, they say hindsight's 2020 for a reason, clichés or clichés, because they're true. I think that sometimes when I say or write something that really cuts to the inner part of the heart of the people who read it or hear it, it's because it's the thing that I needed to hear. And the world is hard for everyone. And we've all been put on this hamster wheel where we're terrified that maybe we're the one person who doesn't have it figured out or why haven't we,

you know, we've got this sorted, but why don't we have that sorted and all these other people look like they have it figured out. And we're all asking each other, how do you manage your time? And how does this person manage their time? Because we all think we're failing at managing our time. And the overwhelming feeling

of especially as a woman, we all suffer that. And then women have this sort of added compounding stress of no matter what we do, we're told we're wrong. If you prioritize your career, why don't you have kids? And if you have kids, well, you didn't want to have a career. And if you're single, like, what's wrong with you? But if you're in a relationship, did you settle? You know, it's, it's exhausting. And I, I was having a conversation with some friends, and we were talking about something I'd said a few years earlier that I realized was also something I needed to hear, which was stop worrying so much about being someone else's version of enough. Someone else's definition of enough is actually what I said.

And I said, you know, now I think what I'm trying to do is figure out how to own, how can I own what I've done, how can I own what I've made, what I've made, how can I be proud of the person that I am and also set goals? I don't want to set goals so much that all I'm ever doing is looking at the horizon and missing what's around me, but I don't want to get complacent with what's around me and stop growing. And there has to be a world in which I can be both.

I look around at everyone in my life and I give them patience to grow and I also think they're incredible. I think the people I surround myself with are masterpieces. And how do we get to the place where we're allowed to be both a masterpiece and a work in progress simultaneously? How do you know that you're enough

and also know that you can always be better? How can both of those things be true? And yeah, it was like a big aha moment. And then it, that phrase, once I wrote it down and shared it, it sort of took the internet by storm. And then it started getting stolen by people. And then I started seeing it everywhere. And then I, somebody said, well, have you looked it up on Pinterest? And there's tons of thousands of, you know, pieces of art that have been made out of it. And I was like, Oh, shit, that thing that I needed to hear apparently a lot

on the people needed to hear it, too. Oh shit, that thing that I needed to hear apparently a lot of other people needed to hear it too. I'm Jay Shetty and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hot some minds on the planet. Oh pro. Everything that has happened to you can also be a strength builder for you if you allow it. Kobe Bryant. The results don't really matter. It's the figuring out that matters. Kevin Haw.

It's not about us as a generation at this point. It's about us trying our best to create change. Lumin's Hamilton. That's for me being taken that moment for yourself each day, being kind to yourself, because I think for a long time I wasn't kind to myself. And many, many more. If you're attached to knowing you don't have a capacity to learn.

On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys, and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on-purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. Our 20s are seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, fall in love, make mistakes, and decide what we want from our life. But what can psychology really teach us about this decade? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the psychology of your 20s.

Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak, money, friendships, and much more to explore the science and the psychology behind our experiences, incredible guests, fascinating topics, important science, and a bit of my own personal experience. Audrey, I honestly have no idea what's going on with my life. Join me as we explore what our 20s are really all about, from the good, the bad, and the ugly, and listen along as we uncover how everything is psychology, including our 20s. The psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg, now streaming on the iHot Radio app,

Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts. I'm Mungaisha Tikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball

teams, canceled marriages, K-pop! But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good, there is risk too far. Am I whole view on astrology? It changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. But I love that and I'm so glad you shared that because...

I love that paradox too, because I feel like everyone's always asking us to choose. And it's almost like, well, first of all, who's asking you? And second of all, why do you have to choose? Like why do you have to accept that you are just a masterpiece, which would be hard for most of us to accept? And how do you accept that you are just a work in progress? And like you're saying, not celebrate. So tell me about which areas of your life right now

do you feel are a masterpiece? On which areas are working progress? If you don't like that. Oh, man. When I say masterpiece, you're a very humble model person. So I know you, but an area that you feel very happy and accomplished and proud and just confident about. And then an area that's working progress.

It's really interesting you asked me that because just a few weeks ago, one of my best friends, my friends Sam, we were out, our friend Christine was visiting from Nashville. And the three of us went on this hike. We had this like beautiful afternoon and we had hiked up to the top of this mountain range out near the beach. And we were in a grove of ancient oak trees, they're literally called the trees of life. Where is this?

This is in the Tupanga Canyon State Park, just magic. And we were sitting and we were talking about some things that we had all been learning over the prior year. This is maybe a month after New Years and New Year's makes us off. Thank you. And Sam said, I want to share some things I've learned about myself. She was like, but Sophia, I want you to go first. I want you to tell us something you love about yourself. And let me tell you what I was like, this feels very uncomfortable to me, guys.

And I was looking at them and Sam was like, you can do this. Sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss and I'm not gonna sweat. And I really, at one point, I almost started to cry because I thought, why is this so hard for me? What has taught me to be small? When I am the person who goes out there and sees everyone is so big and advocates for their bigness and their right to take up space, what is this? And finally, I started to laugh and I was like, okay, you guys, I'm really smart. Sam was like, you are the smartest person I know.

Goofy, I've never met someone. She was like, when I saw you talking big, it's like I almost fainted, I couldn't, and it turned into this whole thing, and I was crying and laughing. And I was like, yeah, I'm really, really smart. And I do the research and I care, and I look into things in a very real way and I dig into

things and I don't share about things or advocate for things almost. I really know that I know what I'm talking about. I travel to places to be on the ground, to be a witness and an advocate. And that conversation led me into realizing that I always show up and I really show up for my friends. And I show up in ways that have also kind of gotten me burned a little bit. You know, I haven't had friends always show up for me in the way that I show up for them. But I'd always rather

be the person who shows up. And it was this big kind of opening thing. So it's a really roundabout way of saying it's hard for me to identify the arenas or maybe the verticals in my spreadsheet that I would say are masterpieces, but the things that I take pride in that I know I'm doing well at are my commitment to people, my commitment to research. I am very political and it comes at a risk. And I do it because I know I'm doing it right. And I'm also really willing to learn. So if I get something wrong, if I've missed something,

if I've had blinders on, I wanna know. And coming from a place of conviction that my activism is always rooted in, what is best for the most people and is the root of what I believe always love for another. And if those are the questions I can answer clearly, then I go full steam ahead. I'm really proud of those things. Like that, that's where I'm doing well.

That's beautiful. I love that. And thank you for sharing that. Thanks. I definitely feel you've always showed up for me. So I appreciate that. When you came to my event, it meant a lot to me. So so so. And you took the time to come and I felt that as well. Like we'd been missing each other and not able to talk. And I know we'd had a few conversations, but I invited you

and you showed up and you stayed till the end. Yeah. And it was just I felt very loved and touched and moved by that. And I wanted to know that. So please always know that I will always shout too. And thank you for sharing that also because I think it's so true that often we're the ones going and petitioning on behalf of others. And we're pushing ourselves to help people realize that they're enough and to help people realize that they have meaning and they have a voice and they have a purpose. And in that we struggle with ourselves to just be like, oh, I'm kind of good at this or okay at this.

Am I okay at this? Exactly, yeah. And I think that that's a very real struggle. And you've got good friends who forced you to say it. So I love them already. It was so brutal. I was like, you guys are horrible. I was literally holding myself like Molly Shannon and just like, I'm going to take

you away into this distant land. Oh, God. And, you know, we'd, we'd like exercise, we were sweating, there were dolphins moving. I was like, I'm very uncomfortable. But yeah, I think it's, I just think it's so important that we start figuring out how to do a bit more of that for ourselves and that it's okay. Yeah, it is okay. Okay, tell us about the work in progress, Ari, which probably will be a bit easy. I'm shit at time management. It's just not my spiritual gift.

I hate email. I think email is literally the ugliest, worst designed, who's the product designer of an inbox? Because that person should be like sat down and have their hands taped to a computer until they fix it. Like reprogram the whole thing. Threads are garbage. You can never find anything you need. Everyone's email signatures are eight miles long. I don't care. Like the number of emails that get sent for no reason, I just don't do it. I don't do it anymore. Looking at an inbox makes me feel so stressed out

that I'm like, if you know me, if we have a real relationship, you know not to email me. Text me whatever it is. Send me something on WhatsApp. You can DM me on Instagram and get a hold of me faster than you can in an email. It's just, I'm not good at that.

I'm trying to get better because I do also know that there are portions of my career that operates, so leave you an email. So I begrudgingly look at it, but it makes me feel very stressed. And I get that that's an irrational complaint, but here we are. I'm accepting all of myself too.

I know. I think that discernment with people has not always been my spiritual gift either. I really love people. Sometimes people will say like, which I always find ironic, I posted something it was recently the anniversary of the shooting at Stomendagles High School, Marjorie Stomendagles High School. And I just think that those Parkland kids are so incredible. And I was talking about this debate we have in this country about guns. And talking about it from the perspective,

which most people know me, which is I'm pretty progressive. And then people like to say, like, well, you're one of those Hollywood liberals. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. OK. My growing up was in Los Angeles. My whole Hollywood career has been in North Carolina, I don't know, that was Hollywood liberals. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. My growing up was in Los Angeles. My whole Hollywood career has been in North Carolina, Chicago, New Mexico, like what are you talking about?

But, you know, I come at this from the perspective of being a person who believes we need reform and who analyzes the data to understand why and who also was given my first rifle at 12 and own guns and shoot them as a hobbyist. So I sit at an interesting crossroads, and I posted something about this, having a really frank and vulnerable conversation

about what we're doing to our kids. And I'm not a parent yet, but there's no such thing as other people's children in my eyes. We're all in this together. And somebody, there was some really thoughtful conversation and some people's tempers flared, but I think we had a really good sort of talk

and debate and back and forth. And someone was like, every time I come to your page, you're just so angry. And I looked back at my last nine posts and they were all just pure rejoicing of like community and life. And I was like, okay. But figuring out how to do some of that, how to advocate and how to boundary set for myself. I've realized it's a little easier for me to do with activism. It's easier for me to do in the way

that I'm willing to give to the world. But the way that I will fight for the world is because of the way that I love the world. And I really love people. And I have realized that's what makes me so feisty on their behalf. But when that applies in my more interpersonal relationships, it has made me a little bit blind because I very often, whether it's in platonic love or romantic love, I have fallen in love with people's potential. I have fallen in love with the best thing. I have fallen in love with the best thing

that I see in someone as my partner or as my friend, rather than really taking stock of the full picture. And I've made excuses for bad behavior, which means that I have made excuses for being treated badly. And that has been a really important thing to look at. When you start to say, this doesn't feel good to me and you look at why, it's always easy

to look at the way someone has mistreated you but trade your confidence, not showed up, whatever the thing may be. It's harder to then take the perspective and step in front of the mirror with it and figure out what you put up with, what you ignored, what you allowed. Yeah, that's a work in progress for me. I am having to learn discernment. I'm having to take action as face value rather than words. And I love words, my God. I love to read, I love to talk, I love to to converse. Words can really be like a powerful drug for me.

And actions are the thing I have to focus on. I have to train myself. I have to train myself. I'm training myself to focus on actions because they're easier for some reason, or have been easier for some reason for me to excuse when the words are there. Yeah. I love that.

It just shows how such a beautiful quality that you have, which is noticing the potential in others. That's such a beautiful quality. It just shows how such a beautiful quality that you have, which is noticing the potential in others. It's that such a beautiful quality. It's the best. Like, to have that and recognizing when someone's at the lowest that they have this spark of brilliance, so that they have this little genius inside of them and you want to fan it and you want to grow it and you want it to develop, but recognizing that if misused or misunderstood or misapplied is the right word. Actually, if it's misapplied, it can actually be your greatest pain point because if it's

misused and you do it in a way where you want someone to become more, you know they can become, but they choose not to. And love is a really powerful drug. You know, it feels good. It releases endorphins and oxytocin and all those things in our bodies. And if the way that you love someone becomes a supply for them, it's not a reciprocal exchange. And it is just as much my fault when I have loved someone who has used my love as fuel rather than created a charge between the two of us that runs like a battery. And that's

true again in romantic relationships and friendships. And you know, I've in the last year, I've done a big clean out, big house cleaning. And it's been in every arena by the way. I've actually renovated my house. I have cleaned out my stuff in ways and done charity auctions and giveaways and all kinds of things. And I have really, I've whittled down my favorites list and my friends. I have a minimalist. I have streamlined my group of friends. And I've gotten to a point

where even people who've betrayed me, I'm not angry about it. I'm just really clear. I don't sugarcoat the experience because that's a denial of my experience, but I don't hold on to anger about it anymore either. I'm just like, oh, I see. And that's okay, but I operate differently. And if I give of myself this way and you don't give of yourself a return, that's fine. You do you, but I only have so much of this to give. So thank you next. This is why you're so awesome because we've gone from talking about email inboxes to, to, to, you know, to, to really looking at discernment, which I think is such a, it's, you've brought about such a subtle challenge that I think so many of us face, especially in romantic partnerships and in friendships and even in work.

You know, even hiring people and even, yeah, hiring people, working with people, being friends with people, long-term relationships. All of that, it's just discernment is so tough. And I'm so glad that you've raised it because I think for everyone who's listening on watching right now, I'm sure you can relate to something Sophia's saying. And I wanted to see what she's saying is so beautiful because you're talking about how it's not about just having an anger or resentment toward them. Actually, it's the clarity is really the goal of all of that. That if you've experienced

that aim for clarity, so you know where you stand with someone and you know where they stand with you, rather than still making up some fiction version in your head of what you wanted to be or it could be. And so yeah, thank you for sharing that. And and and and with your regard to email inbox, sorry, I have to go back there because I thought what you just said was so brilliant. But isn't it the worst? I'll tell you exactly what I do with email. I want to hear your tips too. Oh, thank God. Teach me. No, no, no, no, these are my tips. This is just the rules I set for myself. Okay. Everyone in my life knows that you will get no longer than three word to three sentence emails from me ever. I will skim read and scan read any email that is above three lines as well. So if you want to talk to me or

we need to get through something, then find me on WhatsApp or a phone call. And at first when I started to do this, people thought I was quite abrupt or slightly rude on email. And it was never rude, it was just short and clinical. And the reason was because I was like, I don't think we can actually come to a real conclusion. Having an email exchange where every email is worth like 10

paragraphs and I'm like, I've expected to read this, process it, and then respond when actually we could do on a phone call, I could explain myself much better, and communicate better, and we'd save time. And so for me, I feel like paying with email, but I've just come up with these rules. So everyone's aware. And I always make sure that email is my last task

of the day, not my first. Because I believe that email means you're now living according to everyone else's timelines and you're now living according to everyone else's priorities. And so email is my last and least important task of the day. So everything else is much more higher priority than email. And it's changed my life because I get done what I want to get done in that day. And anything that's a priority for me to send an email, then I will send that email or I will make that phone call or I'll message that person on WhatsApp, but it will always be my last and least important task of the day.

Okay, so here's my question. Yes. Do you set a timeframe at the end of the day during which you answer email? I do. Yes. So I will set a timeframe and I often try and make it a time frame where I wouldn't be productive in any other area. So I find that 9am to 2pm, I'm at my most productive from a personal creativity standpoint. So I like to be alone during that time. And then after that

time, like today, I'm doing a podcast because I feel I'm better conversationally at this time. Right. Or I'd be better sitting at my phone during my email, but I'll never use my priority time. And I talk about this study a lot. I read a study that said, you can't be creative and logical at the same time. And so when you're doing email, it's just demanding so much logic and rationale. But then if you're trying to be creative or record a podcast or have a real human conversation, you can't do it.

And so dividing your days into creative and logical or dividing your weeks into creative and logical can actually help you become more effective. So that's really helped me with time management because then I feel I can actually dive into the ocean of creativity because I'm not then having to be pulled out into doing something logical, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, that's anyway.

Back to, I'm just glad you raised the email thing. I will, I back it. We should have a new designer to be at the interface everything. Honestly, I'm going to, like, I'm going to start a contest or something. I don't know what anybody's going to win, but we're going to fix this. Yeah. Absolutely. You've said a lot of powerful things. We talked about one of them.

There's another one that you said that I want to read for me. You say that the world has taught women to look at each other as competition. And you believe this is a distraction strategy, which I think is spot on. I feel that way about competition in general, but I think specifically what you're saying that it's heightened for women. Tell us about when you first had that moment where you realized that and then how that's changed how you are. I don't know when the realization, I mean the aha moment, it was kind of like getting

hit by a bus where I was like, oh my god, it's a distraction tactic. Wow. distraction tactic. Wow, because you look at productivity, you look at the way there's been so many studies done about how company culture gets better when women are at the helm and equally represented at the company because when there's just one of us anywhere, then it's terrible. You just put a target on somebody's back whether it's a woman in the boardroom or you're trying to get diversity points at your company. So you like put a person of somebody's back, whether it's a woman in the board room or you're trying to get diversity points at your company So you like put a person of color at every kind of level in the executive I'm like cool. You just made that person more of it. What are you doing? Yeah, you know

So being the one isn't it but when you when we find these arenas in which there are parity we see how the return from companies goes up. You know, when companies have both racial and gender diversity in good and equal numbers, they make more money. So this isn't just a moral conversation we're having, it's also a fiscal one. And I think that sometimes the fear of all of this comes in because people think about the pie chart, right? And they think like, this is all the resources that there are. And so if the women start making as much money as the men, we're gonna make less money.

And what they're not accounting for is that there was as of the sort of economic statistics of last year, if we created true gender parity and salary in America, our annual GDP would increase by $2.2 trillion. So the pie would get this much bigger. Like literally everyone would be making more money. So that I think is really important to remember. That's why again, an adage arising tide lift saw ships. It's really true. And yet, true. And yet, we don't think about it that way. Our little lizard brains love this fear of scarcity because we evolve to be afraid and being afraid kept us alive. You know, like, something's watching me as a lion, I have to run. Whatever. We don't need them in

the same way anymore. In modern society, we don't need the fear and the anxiety and the way that we evolve to have them yet we have them and we put them in these really disparate places everywhere. I think about it like a pressure valve when the pressure doesn't get released it starts coming out sideways. And with women in our oppression, there has been for some luxury to proximal power. And proximal power is a hell of a drug. So when you are the one woman who gets promoted and you survived harassment and abuse and degradation on the way up and you see another woman coming in and a bunch of the guys at work are like,

oh look who's coming to take your seat. They never say to us, oh man, she's cool, maybe she's coming to take my seat. They say she's coming to take your seat. There has been this culturing that we are each other's competition. And then there's been a popularization through narratives that have often been told by men

and entertainment that women are meant to fight over men. So true. And when you see it come from everywhere, so true, what? When it you see it come from everywhere, when it gets dumped on you from everywhere, you know, why is it that it 10 years old? Girls start to get small and quiet in school. By 10 years old now, girls are conscious and self-conscious about their bodies. And they think that they're not pretty and they think that they're not smart. And they think that like a girl is an insult.

You know, this comes from everywhere and it starts at such a young age that we grow up in it. We don't even know that we're participating in it. And, you know, I still have one of my best friends from junior high in high school. And she and I were talking and she was like, oh my God, do you remember in seventh grade

when like that boy Drew was in love with you and I was in love with Drew and I was like, oh my God, do you remember in seventh grade when that boy Drew was in love with you and I was in love with Drew and I was so mean to you because I just couldn't tell you. And suddenly my best friend just started being so mean to me and I didn't know what was going on. And now we laugh about it while we're playing with her kids and talking about what we're doing next weekend. But no one told us we couldn't talk about that, but we had been cultured to be

afraid of it. And how lucky we are that we got past that. But I'm using it as an example, because it's so ingrained from such a young age. And then because girls aren't cultured to talk about it, guys will talk about it, they'll fight about it. They'll just throw it all out there, but women are supposed to be small and supposed to be good and supposed to be sweet. And the pressure of the small and the good and the sweet is like a vice on our hearts and our necks and our heads. And if you don't learn, and the unlearning, because really actually it's an unlearning. If you don't unlearn that stuff, and the tools to unlearn aren't just readily available everywhere. I think more now, but when I was in high school, they weren't anywhere. No one was talking

about this stuff. Now we have, you know, therapists on Instagram and Glenn and Doyle leading a revolution of women being untamed, but we didn't have that then. And so we had to go looking. We had to come home to ourselves and to this kind of intuitive understanding that we evolved because of the grandmother's. Human beings are here because of mothers. We are here because of the village, the community of women who has raised us. And this is a long, buried secret. But when any of us learns

it, when we touch it, it's like, God, I always knew that. This is the thing that I was missing. But it really requires some work. And so for me, it's so important to cultivate excellent community with all of my friends, with the women in my life, and with the incredible men that I'm so lucky to have in my life. I got the best male allies in the game, one of them sitting right there. But you know, this is a real kind of untangling of a knot.

This is a real kind of untangling of a knot. And we all just carried the knot around for a long time and didn't know why it made us feel so bad. As you said, the media has such a responsibility to play in. You have all these young girls and boys. And it is also how men treat women through the media like you were saying about like women competing over men in media or women being the only seat at the table and there's only one and therefore they're competing for that role like and having been in media yourself like how do you feel about and are you supporting projects now and movies and documentaries and work that you feel is reshaping our views or on media.

Absolutely. And I certainly hope so. And it's interesting, you know, when you look back at the things that shaped so many of us, in certain ways, the great ones stand the test of time. And in other ways, you look back and go, oh, that's not, we shouldn't have made that joke. Okay. you look back and go, oh, that's not, we shouldn't have made that joke. Okay. But it, I think it all offers us perspective. And certainly for me figuring out where we have some of the power to steer the ship, you know, this podcast, my podcast, I get to have conversations that are thoughtful and intellectual and vulnerable. And, and I have with people who don't all think the same way. And where we really get to talk about it rather than like quickly tweet, this is the thing. We get to talk about it. We get to arrive at things together. We get to question things together. And and I think that's why perhaps this world is getting so much traction because people are

starving for a gathering place where we can learn together rather than feel judged together. Yeah. Or just pass our judgments. And I think that openness is so key and so often I feel like I feel like a curious learner in all of these areas because it's really interesting like having grown up in England versus the US as well and having grown up with my mom and my sister being the closest family members to me. And so then my relationships with women have been very much affected by my relationships

with my mom and my sister who I have very positive relationships with. And then moving here and also like, my parents never made my ethnicity feel like a strength or a weakness growing up. So I was oblivious to it. And it sounds weird, but it's true. I've just never identified as anything but myself. Can I ask you that?

Yeah, of course you can. Yeah, I'm like, I'm curious how as a question? Yeah, of course you can, yeah. I'm like, I'm curious how is a kid in school? How did what you may or may not have experienced at school affect what your parents were doing? And if it wasn't such a thing at home or you didn't have to have the talk

because in America, every black family knows that if they have a son, they have to talk to him when he's eight, maybe earlier, about what it means to move in the world as a black man. And the same goes for brown men and women. And it's a thing that every single friend I have, who does not look like me, they either had the talk or they're giving the talk to their kids.

And so I'm curious about the difference you think, being in England, and then also, how did your culture, how was that taught to you in your home? Yeah, it's a good point. And I mean, I don't wanna get into me because I really wanna talk about you. I just really like to ask you. Yeah, it's a good point. And I mean, I don't want to get into me because I really want to talk about you. I just really like to ask you. Yeah, I'm going to answer this just because you've asked.

But yeah. Yeah, so first thing is, yes, I was bullied and experienced racism at school, especially in my primary school because I was the only one of the few Indian people at school. Got it. So that was definitely there from other kids. Sometimes even I felt some teachers were racist too. So I definitely experienced it on that front too. But I feel like my parents were just,

they never told me that it was harder to be like me, but they never told me it would be easier either. So they never told me either story. And how did they talk to you about the bullying when you would come home and tell them what was happening? They just supported me, loved me. And I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong. I'm just saying this is kind of the making of who I am today. And they just supported me, comforted me, stood up for me when they felt it was wrong.

And as embarrassing as it was, my mom going to talk to teachers or, you know, whatever it was. I had to have those moms. Yeah, my mom was that mom, but I respect her for doing it. You know, she stood up for her kids, but she never made me feel more or less than based on who I was. And equality always was very much in our family and the way I was raised in terms of just respecting everyone for who they are. And that kind of viewpoint.

But for me, it's just, yeah, I empathize and do see what you're saying that for so many people growing up is totally different. And I think in, I definitely think in England, diversity in different cultures are far more, there's far more education of that. So for example, like in my, and I don't know if this is the same

because I wasn't raised here, but in my primary school, we celebrated every religious holiday of every, every religion. We celebrated every cultural festival of every culture. We had just as we would have a Indian festival. We would have a, you know, you know, any other festival in, in, at celebrated at school. So very early on, you just got exposed to everyone's cultures and everyone's way of dressing and all that kind of stuff.

And it was seen as a festival. It was seen as something celebrated rather than like, oh yeah, there's that weird thing that they do. My junior high in high school were like that. Right. And I loved it. I just loved it. Like whether it was Greek Easter or it was a Hindu holiday

and my friend Megas Mom was doing it. It had enough for all the girls. We were learning about everyone's, really what I think about it as is everyone's love language. You know, my family is Italian, Catholic, agnostic, Jewish, Irish. like we are all over the place. And the way that we eat and the way that we celebrate and the way that we do holidays.

I wanna eat that for you. Oh my God, come over all the time. It's so fun. Like that is a love language. And I think it's really great when we can offer that to kids. What are the causes and activism that you get behind and what is your reasoning for the ones that you choose?

Because sometimes it just feels like there is so much going on. Oh yeah. And I know that a lot of people listening and watching may feel overwhelmed at times. Like, Jay, like how do I know what to help with? Like there's this, there's this, there's that, there's that, there's, you know, and whereas you seem active

in a lot of spaces, you're not exactly just saying, oh no, it's just this, you're active and supporting, like you said, you're showing up. How are you deciding what's important for you and why have you chosen the things that you focus on? So again, it's like when you were saying about the way that I love people, it's like what a gift. And it's also in a killy's heel, right?

You know, it's a double-edged sword. My understanding of what the world needs feels the same. It's big and it's broad, and I like to go deep in so many different directions. But for me, the environment began it. Growing up in it, I wanted it to be safe. You know, animals, planet, ocean, forests. And then for me, beginning to realize the way women were treated. In the world, I was like, oh hell no. That got me so into women and

girls. And when you look at how to elevate women, you have to look at how to elevate girls, and you elevate girls in school. And when you elevate girls in school, you automatically elevate the boys in school. And, you know, the more I learn, the more I see how it's all connected. And the way that I think about it, when people ask me about causes, you know, we both have this cough, right? Let's say we were actually sick and we went to the doctor. You'd never go to a doctor who would just look at your lungs, or if you had a pain in your arm who would just look at your bicep and be like, that part seems okay. Go see the other doctor.

A doctor looks at your body. They look at your muscular skeletal system. They look at your circulatory system. They look at your respiratory system, your nervous system, the body is made up of interconnected systems, and if one fails, the body fails. The planet is just a giant body. And the more that you start looking,

or the more at least for me to personalize it, the more I started looking at things, I would see that these veins ran into those muscles and that those muscles were pained by these nerves, and all of these things is connected. And if we have been touched by cancer, we should be talking about the environment, we should be talking about environmental protections and what's happening with the water and the air.

If we understand that the only reason we're sitting in this room is because we were afforded an education, we should be making sure that the education system doesn't leave anyone behind. And when you start examining the education system in the United States, for example, you find out that California has one textbook and Texas has another, made by the same company. But the textbooks in Texas aren't talking about the Civil War the way the textbooks in California are. And they're not talking about the Second Amendment in the same way either. This is problematic and we should care.

You know, everything I've ever looked at leads me to something else. And what I realize is I like to learn as much as I can about every single issue and be able to understand how the systems of the world are interconnected and integrated. And then my privilege and the way that I spend it is that because I get to talk to millions of people every day, the more causes I highlight, the more likely I am that a light bulb is gonna go off for somebody.

Because my entire audience isn't gonna care about cancer and my entire audience isn't gonna care about the environment. And my entire audience isn't gonna care about girls' access to primary school education in Guatemala, but they're all going to care about something. And the more that I can offer and the more that I can research and the more that I can give as an opportunity, the more likely I am to turn somebody on to the thing that ignites their sacred rage and it gets them out of bed in the morning and it gets them

to call their senators, it gets them to go out and vote. And so I want to be learning constantly about the newest coolest thing and the best way to show up for something and where to give your money and where to give your time and how to green your house and how to start thinking about your environmental impact, whether it's through furniture or fashion or who you vote for. It all really matters. And while I think we have a responsibility to do the research, it's not that hard, you know?

That's what I was gonna ask you because when you were speaking about all these issues, all I'm hearing is research, study, learning, like these are not just, they're not sentimental for you. No. And I hear that when I- Their missions for me. Correct.

And when I hear you speak, when I see you're activism on social media, it fills me with joy because I do feel that, I mean, any activism is good and useful, but when it's sentimental, and it's not grounded in research, you can be misplaced, and it can again create more challenges for the person trying to do it and the person receiving. So when you've built up this research mindset, like you said, it's not impossible and anyone can do it. When you've been researching, what's been the research

that's most surprised you? Or when you've read something or studied something about an issue and you're like, I completely missed this when I was just sentimental about it or when I was just passionate about it, right? Because everything starts with passion. Everything starts with passion or pain. Well, you're like, I've seen this issue, et cetera, but when you saw something, you're like, Oh, wow, that's just switched to live, but now I'm going to approach this differently. Yeah.

For me, it's really about how much each of these things is tied together. And so not to get super controversial, but this is what's coming to mind. And it feels important. We have a big debate in this country about a woman's right to choose and about abortion access. But what nobody's talking about is at the end of the last presidential administration, we were at an all-time low for women seeking abortions in the United States because access to reproductive care, including abortion, had gone up.

So women actually had access to all the steps of care that come before it, so they didn't need the last option. They had more access to birth control, they had more access to screenings, they had more access to plan parenthood, they had more access to family planning, so they didn't need it.

And there's all these people who have, because so many elected officials have figured out that they can't run on much anymore. So they have to run on something that feels like a nuclear issue. They can't run on policy and they can't run on healthcare because they're trying to take all those things away from everyone, what can they run on?

So they weaponize issues that should be left up to families and their medical care professionals. And they weaponize them with false science and they weaponize them with fake science, and they weaponize them with fake videos, and they claim that plan parenthood is doing terrible things which they are not. And people fall into that because it's media, and it's really sneaky and it's well done and it's hidden. But for me, when I talk to people, and I'll sit down with someone who is pro-forced

birth, I am pro-forced birth. I am pro choice. I'm also wildly lucky, I've never had to make that choice. You know what I mean? I'm very thankful. However, it's not my right to make it for anyone else, but when I talk to people who are pro-forced birth, my whole thing is I get it.

I wouldn't want to make that choice. I don't want anybody to have to make that choice. But it's not up to you to say you know more about someone's life than they do. It's not up to me either. But if you really wanted to stop abortion from happening, you would be out there rallying for open doors to women's reproductive healthcare access. And they are integrity. They aretwined in such a way they cannot be separated. Because guess what? The same people who are out there fighting to reduce

abortion access across America are the people who are trying to stop healthcare providers from providing birth control under insurance. These are people who are continuing to make sure Viagra is covered under insurance. Viagra, which by the way was rushed through FDA approvals in six months because it met an urgent medical need. But the female Viagra, which I met this incredible woman, her name is Cindy, she's like a total badass and she she was like, why isn't there a Viagra for women? So she created it. It took her six years uphill battle and she actually had an elected official

who works for the United States government and say, what do we want a bunch of horny women running around for? Which then led me to the point again, if when you pull out the thread, where I was like, oh, so you wanna be able to take Niagara and you want to have sex with women whenever you want, but you don't want us to wanna have sex with you.

So basically what you're saying is, you still view us as property. You want us when you want it but you don't want us to want to have sex with you. So basically what you're saying is you still view us as property. You want us when you want it. You don't care how our experience is and you also want to take birth control away. So like you want us to not be able to plan our life, be able to run for office, be able to do the things you do. I mean, it really, you can't help but understand how it's a bigger picture. And if you want to fight for women and families,

you have to fight for women and family planning. And that's an issue a lot of people have a hard time with, but we can talk about it like this. We can just look at the data and the reality of the circumstance. And we can do these things together. We can actually I think close the loop. It's in the same way that, you know, there's a lot of people out there talking about how we have to change our diets because of climate change and they're right. But something that I think we're missing

is that so many people who are chefs and people who, you know, live in the Great American West, who are hunters, who live off the land are some of the biggest environmental advocates that there are. And if we got, you know, all of the progressive big city, big city vegans together with the chefs who live off the land in states like the Dakotas and Montana, maybe we'd actually get the senators from those states talking to each other and we'd change the food system. And we move into regenerative agriculture and we'd stop using pesticides on our animals and our plants and letting them leach into our water and giving

everyone in the country cancer. You know, all of this stuff is connected and the reality is that if we do the research and we see each other, we realize we're all connected too. And we have to, I think, follow the data. And we have to look at what's actually happening, rather than just our emotional response to it. We have to take a step back from our emotions. And then we need to look at who out there is triggering them and why they want to. Because just in the same way that women have been raised for generations to compete with each other or see each other as the enemy when we are a sisterhood and we are all we've ever really had when you think about it, we should be looking around going, why do they want us fighting? If the population

is fighting with each other, we're not watching what they're doing. And right now in this country, we're seeing senators who aren't doing our bidding. Congress passed a bill about background checks in Mitch McConnell, who is the Senate majority leader who calls himself the grim reaper. He actually gets off on the fact that he is committing such dereliction of his elected duty that he gave himself a nickname. He won't vote on it. Even though Americans want simple protections that also protect peoples right to a hobby. We're so much more on the same team than we think we are, and it's really on us, I think,

to do a little bit of research, and let me tell you what, get into the data because emotions are hard, but math is perfect, 2 plus 2 always equals 4. The data reports are the things that when everything feels crazy like this, actually calm me down and motivate me to go out there and fight for people who think like me and for people who don't. Where do people go for that data? Where are you finding that bad source so that people are not going into the fake news, not getting lost into the media paid perspectives.

Where are you finding that, where you will find in the best data for you? I really think one of the most important things we have to do, and look, I love social media. It's really fun for connection. Stop getting news on Facebook. Just stop. We know that they have lost control of how news is distributed. Recently, I'm in this affected you,

the Brexit vote, the big referendum happened and they found that 85% of the ads run about Brexit in the most recent vote were false. And those 85% were run by Boris's party. That the other party didn't run any ads that lied, but they also ran 5% of ads. I mean, it was crazy. And so we have to remember that when things are being bought, they're harder to trust. And it's the same here in the US, like a lot of our news, Fox News actually came out last year. I don't know if you saw this and said,

well, we're not an actual news program. We're in an entertainment program, but they call themselves Fox News. Yeah. And I understand that there are plenty of people who feel like MSNBC is biased, but it's important for us to look at facts. I love to read articles.

I read papers I know I can trust. I read news on the BBC, I read news on Al Jazeera, I read news on the New York Times and CNN, and I look at Time Magazine, and I look at reporters who I trust, reporters who put out data, and then I start finding out where they do their research. I look at who they follow, I look at who they retweet, and those are people I gravitate towards. There's an incredible woman who used to be the head of the White House press corps.

Her name is Jessica Yellen, Y-E-L-L-L-I-N, and she does this thing now. She uses Instagram like a news channel and she does a thing called news not noise. And every day she'll post the news and say, this is noise, this is noise, this is a distraction. Don't worry about these things. These are the things you really need to know. Well. And it's such a powerful tool to cut down on the noise. I do a lot of research.

I work with a lot of organizations that I trust. And so I share a lot of data on my Instagram as well. I use my Instagram stories almost like the news every day because I know where it's coming from day because I know where it's coming from, but I know where it's coming from because I've worked on multiple presidential campaigns and I've worked from inside the White House and I know who to trust.

I speak to attorneys, I talk to lawyers who testify before the Supreme Court. That's my privilege of access. And so I spend it by sharing what they pass on to me with the people who follow me. And that comes from both sides. You know, that's Neil Kichal, who gave an incredible perspective on why impeachment is important and what it's meant to do. And then it's Evan McMullan, who was the former Foreign Policy Director of the GOP.

He's another person that I source news from. And I think it's important for us to go to sources that are really verified and trustworthy and global. You know, we should understand the way the news is being reported in other places. I mean, the BBC does such a good job. Like, I can't imagine having getting to grow up with the BBC on in the background, you lucky man. We can set boundaries so that this stuff doesn't overwhelm us. But for me, figuring out where the truth is, that feels like, you're not going to be national treasure. It's like, that's my national treasure hunt. And then it makes me feel so excited.

And it's almost like half the battle is won by the truth. Yeah. Because once you have the data, you have clarity, you can then you can make a informed decision, you can add your passion where it actually matters. Yeah. You know, what's actually being affected. Tell us about now that the kind of,

the other side of it, which is the boundaries that you're setting, so that you're not just constantly being triggered, or that you're not just being negative or angry, or just kind of reacting irrationally. What are you doing on that front, apart from the data, which I think is a huge one for it. What else are you doing,

or what boundaries can people set for their own sanity? I mean, that's a hard one, and that's taken some learning, because there are some days when I am just pissed. I'm pissed when I hear that protection of water is being rolled back. As if somehow pollution cares if you're a Democrat or a Republican. Climate science should be our priority,

no matter how liberal or conservative we are in every country, everywhere, this matters. It was just 70 degrees in Antarctica in February. This is not okay. That's just a fact. But for me, just like you would for your home, no matter what home you live in, no matter what side you're on or what your beliefs are, you care about the health of your home. Yes. Whether it's whether the rent's been paid, whether it's been checked, whether it's been, you know, all of that.

And the earth saw home. It's as simple as that. Yes. And you realize again that all the messaging that's made us feel as though it's up for debate, someone's profiting off of that in a big way. And it's up to us to come in and advocate for our home. And I've had to learn in a way to advocate

for this home, for myself. And it's not always easy, you know? Being a person in the public eye is strange. The way that people talk to you, the way they think they have a right to talk to you. The things they wanna say almost, because they feel like that person can use a cut down. It's like, I get a cut down every day.

It's really hard to be on the receiving end of thousands of them a day. Oh, so you were saying that they actually feel that because you have a platform. Yeah. And do they do they do you think they assume that you don't know your stuff as well? Absolutely. There's a lot of people who say stick to acting. I'm like, well, clearly you didn't know that I was a journalism major who was taking an emphasis in political science when I was in college. This is what I know.

Interesting. But it can be a lot to be on the receiving end of a day loose, whether that's in commentary, criticism, threat, or just a never ending news cycle that's sort of been designed like a cage match, which also doesn't make sense to me. So for me, I have had to learn to filter. There are some days when I'm really angry, and I used to be angrier publicly. And I have learned as I've gotten older and wiser about where to spend my anger because that is a privilege you spend also. I love that, yeah. And about how to bring people into conversations rather than push them out. And that's not to say, look, there's always people who feel pushed out, there's always people who feel like I'm doing it wrong. But I can tell what the sort of percentages are. And I've had to learn that as a practice and as something I deserve to learn, because it makes me feel better to be cultivating a space that is very factual,

very data-driven, very serious. You know, I'm not here to hold, you know, to hold the hand of cruel people, but I am here to welcome people to a space with tenderness and intellect. That feels like a mission for me. And tenderness and intellect is powerful. Sorry, Karen. You know, as James Baldwin said, I love my country. And so I reserve the right to criticize her.

Because I want her to be the best version of herself. I want to build her into the best version of herself. And I think about that a lot. I reserve the right because of herself. I want to build her into the best version of herself. And I think about that a lot. I reserve the right because of love. And beginning to figure out how to have that be my drum beat in everything I do in the world, I'm sure five years from now, I'm going to look back at now in the way that I'm looking at five years ago and go, oh my god, I've learned so much since. Yeah, of course. But I do. I think about the way I communicate and I try to make sure it's rooted in tenderness in

the same way that my ferocity is rooted in love. And then I take days off. Like I'll take a Saturday and just put my phone away and binge Netflix or walk the dog. You know, I take my dog, Griffin on a hike and I and I go and I meet friends and we do like bottomless mimosas at brunch and every you need that. You need joy. You know, even the warriors need to celebrate. even the warriors need to celebrate. And I remember many years ago,

taking with a wonderful advocacy group that was working on a human rights atrocity happening in Uganda, we took 10,000 kids and we marched on Washington, D.C., and we eventually got President Obama to sign a bill, and the whole thing was incredible. And there was a man who spoke at that march. And I know he was important, but I've seen a lot of important people speak. I couldn't tell you who he was. I don't remember. I remember his face.

I don't remember his name. I don't remember what he did. But I remember when he said, for every step, for every step, you take in defense of another, you should dance in celebration for every step you take in defense of another, you should dance in celebration of this. And I thought, oh, so many of us are missing that. We're missing the celebration, we're missing the reveling in the joy that we have something to defend. And for me, when I feel like I'm getting too stressed

too overwhelmed, when my temper gets short, I'm like, oh, I haven't been celebrating the wins. I haven't been acknowledging the masterpiece. I've just been so head down on the work and progress. And I have to do both. It's also an active resistance. It's an active self-love. It's an active self-care.

It's probably, you know, my doctor would say, like, an active preserving your heart into your old age, you know, like don't put yourself in too much cardiac stress. So that feels important. And now I'm at a point in my life where I have done so much work. And I do pay so much attention that I've learned to pay attention to myself and that little voice in me that goes like, I'm not okay today. And then I go, I need to disconnect or I need to celebrate for that part of myself. Yeah. And I always find that when you're active in making the change, you actually carry the burden less in one sense, in the sense that when you're seeing progress, when you're turning up, when you're noticing people's lives change,

that all incentivizes you more to continue. And I find that sometimes our apathy or our disengagement from something because it's complicated, because it's hard, because it's tough to deal with, that actually makes it heavier. And so it's almost like when we're lightening other people's loads, it becomes lighter for us too. Because then it becomes a relay race.

Then we're passing the baton. We're not on this marathon road feeling tortured like how many more miles? You know, looking at your Fitbit or Apple Watch or whatever. A relay we can run. We can run for each other. And other people running reminds us we have the power to do it too. And yeah, it feels important. And something else that struck me when you were saying that, when you lean into the apathy or the fear or you think, I can't possibly do anything about this. What that does is that puts you back on the hamster wheel of feeling small and feeling

powerless. Every time we feel small, every time we feel powerless, every time we get apathetic, the people who are making the money on our apathy win. You know, the the Wizard of Oz, who's just a guy controlling a puppet who doesn't know what he's doing. Those people are winning when we believe the lie that we're not powerful. Yeah, that's so true. So true. And I've always felt that whenever I've got involved, people are always just like, oh, how are you so positive or how do you believe that things are going to be better or whatever? And I'm like, because I'm seeing it happen. Right. I'm seeing people's lives, whether it's one person or a thousand people or a million people,

whatever it is, like witnessing that. Of course that feels you would pride and joy and celebration, like you're saying, because you can see what there is to celebrate. It's not that you're just positive because you're being positive. It's like when you see someone smile, when you see someone cry out of joy, when you see someone who's had their life transformed because of the work, the money, the energy, the time that was positioned rightly to support them, that all that can do is fill you up with joy. It can't fill you up with anything else. And so yeah, I'm so grateful that you are

Approaching everything with so much openness when I hear you. There's no Like there's no rigidity of thought like you're very open the data is rigid and that is what it is But after that you're so open and I think that's needed so much that open conversation that open dialogue the ability to sit in rooms with people who don't think the same with us without any anger or fear or judgment. Like that's what's needed so much because the answer has to come, as you keep saying is, it's gonna come through connection, it's going to come through being together,

it's not going to come through being in opposite rooms. Like when was anything solved being stuck in a different room from someone else and not going into the same space. We don't solve in a vacuum. No, never. And it's not possible. So I really appreciate the way you share and the way you express everything that you're sharing with me because it just feels real like it feels without judgment and it feels genuine and sincere from like you said, someone who genuinely loves.

And I think that that's what's needed is that if we're all working from that place of like, are we doing this for us and our people and their people? Are we doing this just for love? Because that's a different binding force. When it becomes about us and them or our people and their people, it's like, what are you basing that on? Because you could slice and dice that pretty much anyway. But when you're looking at it from that point of view, so yeah, thank you. Thank you so much.

I really hope that everyone is listening and watching today is feeling that much more educated on how to approach this. Because I think that's what I'm learning the most from the way you're sharing is you're giving us a method to approach this. Because I think that's what I'm learning the most from the way you're sharing is you're giving us a method to approach this and you're giving us the freedom to decide whatever it may be, but we need to use this methodology to approach this. Yeah, I think it's really important. And if I may, you know, for anyone in the US who's listening to this, we have elections coming up. A lot of people don't realize they've been purged from the voter rolls. A lot of people don't realize they've been purged from the voter rolls.

A lot of people need to re-register because they've moved. It feels kind of complicated. I'm very lucky to be a founding member of a nonpartisan civic engagement organization called I Am a Voter. It literally just helps you make sure you're ready to vote. And if you text the word voter to 26797, that's voter to 26797. In under 90 seconds, you can check your registration, reregister if you're not registered. And it'll give you the address of your polling place. And it's like, there you go. You just know what you need to know.

It's the easiest quick little chat bot I've ever encountered and it doesn't bother you. After the fact, it'll give you a reminder when your elections coming up, which is I think a lovely thing to have, but it's not like your information isn't being sold anywhere. Nothing nefarious is being done with it. We just wanted people to have a quick and easy nefarious as being done with it. We just wanted people to have a quick and easy resource because it should feel simple and empowering to participate in the world in which you live. Absolutely. How is your activism affected your acting or your acting affected your activism? Well, the acting is what gave me the platform, which is everything, you know. And the activism, I've had the pleasure of proving over time, you know, to stay in the

ring, to be serious about it. And what's really incredible is that now there are people I meet who will say, I got to know you as an activist and then I found your work. Or I got to know you as an actor and then I really fell for you as an activist. It's really cool when people want to be on a journey with you, not just for what you make, but who you are. You know, the activism is who I am. My career, which I love, is what I do. And when I get to bridge those things, when I get to bring what I know from service into characters I've played or into the way they think about things, that feels really cool. Hmm.

Do you think being vocal around specific things affect your roles in the media and how much work or... Oh yeah. Yeah. I've lost out on a ton of work because I'm quote to political. Wow. But what am I gonna do? Watch the world burn and make more money and pretend I don't care.

I'm like, keep your blood money. I'd much rather do the jobs that I love and live a life that I'm proud of, which by the way, is still great. Yeah, and I love and live a life that I'm proud of, which by the way is still great. Yeah, and I love that. I think that's why we should want to see people. You know, as soon as someone says, oh, well, we won't cause someone or work with someone professionally

because of specific things, that's, it's a sign that there's something that's challenged there. And I think it's a sign that they know they've been doing something wrong and they don't want to be so challenged. They don't want people to look at their books or look under their covers. And I want to look into all of it. I got asked on the podcast, I did an interview and the person I was interviewing said, okay, let's just play a game and let's say tomorrow you were the president of the United States, what would you do?

And I'd say, I said, ooh, I want to do a forensic fiscal audit of the entire United States government, the budget and the budget of every state in the union. I want to know where all the money is going. Yeah. And the guy I was in front was like, oh damn. I was like, yeah. Yeah.

I wanna look, I wanna look in the cupboards and behind the fridge, I wanna look at all of it. Well, absolutely, yeah. I think if we drag it all out, we can streamline it, clean it up. And I feel that way about all the things. And, you know, I'm very proud to live by my morals, in my life, and in my work. And again, I'm sure that a

couple of years from now, I'll look back at today and think, oh, if only I'd known then what I know, now I'd have been doing even better. That's the point of life. We're supposed to evolve. If we don't evolve, we die. It's like sharks have to swim forever, right? Because they never stop moving or they die. And I think that as humans, living in these bodies with legs that walk us around and really like

and to sit down, at least I really like to sit down. I love a lounge. I think that our constant motion that keeps us alive is learning, it's evolving, it's growing. And I guess one of the big things for me that I find is, how do we keep going even when it feels like everything is going right. That's actually what I find most fascinating. Like whichever, whatever you're in, whatever side you're on, whatever your preference is, whatever it is, let's say things are going your way. How do you still be a part of the change?

Because to me, when things are going well, that's when you have to go all in. It's like on your health, right? It's like, let's say your physical body and your mental health. And I do this every day because I'm traveling across the country, speaking about mental health, speaking about well-being.

And I come across so many people, I was just at a conference this week, and I was speaking at this really large corporation. And I could tell that the CEO was kind of saw a lot of mindfulness and meditation and wellbeing as a bit woo woo, it's a bit like, oh yeah, yeah, you play with that, you know, and his head of HR, his global head of HR, she was highly into this stuff. So she was, you know, we're really getting along and talking about all of this stuff and while well being and

sleep and decision making is all important. It's been, you know, all these leaders are leading like thousands of people in their teams and hundreds of thousands of people. But I could tell that he kind of saw what we were into as a bit like beneath him almost. He didn't really value mental well being, You know, he's an old school guy and doesn't really see it as like an issue in his own way. Yeah, I think it's frivolous or extra. Totally, yeah. Well, yeah, exactly, extra curricula.

It's probably a cost to the company, probably even having me in the head. He's over there, why are we spending so much time here? And it's like, you know, she's there and she's really into it. I can tell that, and I can tell she's even scared of opening up about how much of a practitioner she is of yoga

and mental health and everything, and mind for us, because she almost feels judged in her workplace. And so anyway, I'm watching this and I'm just thinking that, and I address it in my keynote without addressing him or anyone in particular. And I'm just like, you know, when you think that you've got it all

together and that you don't need this stuff, like that should be the time when you think you need it the most. It's like when your health is at its best place, that is not the time to stop spending time on your health, right? When something's working, that's not the time and this is how I feel about this is, I don't know, you know, I'm going to say it because I think it's really important to say it. I don't really, you can do anything and vote and everything and everything could go your way, but please don't stop there. Because that's my biggest fear when things are going our way as humanity. We just give up once we get what we think we want, right? It's like once you made it, like once you chased that girl or guy and you got them,

then you stopped putting in the effort. Once you chased and got that job that you worked really hard for, you stopped putting in the effort. Once you got that promotion and you stopped putting the effort, that's just how the human mind works. It works really hard in the chase. And then after the chase, it's kind of like, we did it now. And it's almost like, how do we keep that momentum? Because I think that there have been times in history where politically, financially, environmentally, socially, we believed we'd done it. And that was the reason why things went backwards again.

Does that make sense? Oh, yeah, we got to stay vigilant. But the vigilance doesn't have to feel like a chore. it. And that was the reason why things went backwards again. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. We got to stay vigilant. Yeah. But the vigilance doesn't have to feel like a chore. No, feel like a rallying cry. Yeah. It's like you can feel that alive every day. And I think the perspective shift is important. So Esther says that on average couples go to Yeah, says that on average couples go to Marriage counseling Seven years too late. Mm-hmm. Well, that's late. Seven years too late Mm-hmm, and we have this idea that we are supposed to

Go fix something only when it's unbearable rather than look at what's going right and figure out how to make it even better You know and I think a marriage is a really good example because if you're really happy, don't you wanna learn tips to make that happiness last? Don't you wanna learn how to communicate even better than you already do? You know, don't you wanna learn how to like keep the spark alive for even longer, whatever the thing is?

And I think we have to have that kind of understanding about how we move in the world. When things are going well, we should figure out why, we should figure out how to sustain them, and then we should figure out how to do better. 100%. When we feel safe in our life, we should look at someone in our community

who maybe doesn't and figure out how to pull them up to our level. Yes. Yes. You know, those things feel really important. And I think again, instead of looking at this stuff as a chore, we should look at it as an opportunity. 100%. It's like how lucky if your life is great, how lucky you are that you can make it even better. And if you're having a hard time,

how lucky you are that you could do a little bit of research and figure out how to change it, figure out who to vote for. You know, you're stressed out about who's running your country? Look at your local elected officials, who's running your city, who's running your neighborhood, how do we make change on a local level? You have so much opportunity. And instead of being paralyzed by it, I think we should be excited. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And that's what I mean. Like, you know, it's feeling like you're done or feeling like one decision or one moment will change

the trajectory of a city, a country, a town, a company, a family, whatever it is. It just doesn't work like that. This is all ongoing work. And a moment can trigger and incentivize more growth in the right direction, but we should never bank that a moment can change everything. It doesn't work in that way. If we want something huge to happen for the world or ourselves, it has to be a daily commitment we make.

It has to be a weekly commitment we make. And like you said, that's not a chore. It's not like boring discipline. It's fun. It's exciting. It's something to live for. It's meaning it's purpose. it's all of that stuff. Yes.

And so, okay. What I'll admit is that I understand that on this big, like, love the world level. Yeah. But let me tell you something. We talked about this six months ago. I have really, here's a work in progress thing, really been trying to get back into a daily meditation practice and I'm just not clicking in. I am just not.

And the irony is not lost on me that I am just not mentally clicking into the reality that I have the privilege of doing that for myself. That I deserve that. I am not sinking into this is what I do for me and I am so lucky. And I have to call myself out on it right now because again, there's always a thing to do. There's always a thing to improve. There's always a thing to learn. And I'm stuck on that. I'm stuck on that hurdle. Well, that's why we're going to go to India together. Great. always a thing to improve. There's always a thing to learn. And I'm stuck on that. I'm stuck on that hurdle. Well, that's why we're gonna go to India together.

Great. But I called myself on that so many times because I was somebody who focused on mastering the mind so much, but I neglected my body. And so for me, it was the other way around where in 2019, I was far more focused on physical exercise and my physical health.

And even this year year I cut out sugar and it's been changed my life. And just so many things that I've been focusing on in the same way. And so yeah, we, 100%, I always call myself out on the other ones. But yeah, no, I'm glad where we've evolved this conversation. And I want to talk a bit about now,

about how you built this platform. That is how we got here because, you know, this is Sophia's heart for anyone who's listening and watching. I had this, you know, Sophia's a friend and obviously I'm a big fan of her and her work both in acting and activism. So I wanted to speak about both today and I was going to go from acting into activism, but we're doing it the other way around because our heart pulled us to activism and now we're going back.

But it is important for everyone listening and watching to understand and to hear about your journey because even for you, I mean, you almost stumbled into acting because of a high school requirement. Yeah. It wasn't even like, it was just, tell us about that and tell us about the joy

of things happening in that way sometimes. Yeah, it was so surreal. I grew up wanting to save the world and save all the animals and then I wanted to save all the people and I thought I'm going to be a doctor. First I thought I'd be a vet and then I decided I wanted to be a doctor. I think there's also that cultural thing. My dad is an immigrant. He moved to the US in the 1970s from Canada. And my mom is first generation on her side. Her mom came through Ellis Island, like full American dream story from Italy. And I always joke with people,

it's like, you know, in immigrant families, it's like you can be a doctor or a lawyer, or a lawyer or a doctor. And people are always like, is your family from New York? I'm like, all of my mom's family. Like, you doctor, and people are always like, is your family from New York? I'm like, all of my mom's family. And, you know, and Joe and Uncle Raymond, like those are my people.

And so I was kind of on that track, like this is what you do. And you know, my parents cultivated this life. And I have the privilege to go to a private school, which was never lost on me. And I knew what my tuition cost. And I knew all of that stuff. I knew that it was a thing I needed to be grateful for

and that I was lucky to have. And so I was like, well, obviously, I'm gonna go to medical school because that's what good girls do. That's what good kids do. My dad now is like, I always thought you were gonna be a lawyer. He's like, listen to you.

So like, do you mean arguing in data points for the betterment of human society weird? I have no idea why you would have thought that. But I had this requirement. My school was amazing. You know, we celebrated everyone's cultures and holidays. And we had these, these two years of arts requirements in middle school, seventh and eighth grade. And every semester you had to pursue a different kind of art.

And my friend, who I was talking about earlier, whom I'm still friends with, she was a theater kid. And I'm talking like sing show tunes, you know, walked through the halls of school, singing in falsetto. I was like, I love you the most, but like, we're not the same. Like, I'm not this. And if I never thought theater was for me,

because I wasn't a musical theater kid, the irony is that now that, you know, now that I'm an adult, all I wanna do is go see musicals in New York, but not the point. And I had to do this play and I was so annoyed because it was the same semester as volleyball and I meant I couldn't play volleyball

and I just thought this was so horrible. And I had this light bulb moment because I always loved English and I loved literature and I loved reading and I loved stories. And still to this day, I can't give anyone a book I've read because it's underlined and annotated and folded and notes everywhere. And I did a play and it was like a book came to life.

And I was like, do people know? Does anyone know that this is what theater is? And then I went really deep into this sort of oral tradition of humanity and how before there was written language, we shared stories and the orators were the secret keepers. And that was how we survived. And I was like, this is sacred. Like how middle school dramatic, right? But also true. And so I started

doing theater all through high school and my parents loved it because I was so passionate about it. And they just thought it was a great extracurricular. And then I told them that I wasn't going to go to medical school. I wanted to apply to a theater conservatory and they were like, oh my god. to apply to a theater conservatory and they were like, oh my God. And I got into a BFA program, which is a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree, and it's small, and, you know, 14 kids get accepted and you have to audition,

and it's a whole thing, and I got there. And for me at that stage, I think because I'd been so academic always, there was a looseness to that that really wasn't good for me. It made me anxious and it didn't feel like it was serving me. And I don't think I had the wherewithal or the relationship with myself to figure out why or to know what questions to ask, I just went, this isn't for me. Not the acting, but the program, this isn't for me. So I transferred into the journalism school, to the Annembourg School of Journalism at USC, and I was studying political science and communications and thriving, and my little brain was just on fire.

And when my brain was on fire with the way that we tell stories about people, I started booking all of these auditions I was going on in my after college class schedule. And I did this HBO movie and then I worked on the first season of this show called Nip Tuck and then I booked this pilot and the pilot didn't go but those producers did this other pilot and they wanted me to come and read because they said we made this show. I'll never forget it. This producer named Joe DeVole who's so funny. He goes, we made this TV show and all these kids are so depressing they make you want to kill yourself. It's like we need somebody to come in and be funny. Stir the pot. We want you to come read for this and I was like, I didn't know what I was doing. I was 20 years old and I was like, I didn't know what I was doing. I was 20 years old. And I was like, okay. You know, I was a junior in college,

just figuring things out. I'd done my pilot on my spring break. My agents were like, you can't treat your career like an extracurricular activity. And I was like, it is my extracurricular activity in school. Literally. And I'm in like the honors program.

What are you talking about? I have an academic scholarship. I have to keep my grades up. It was, you know, it was like a whole thing. And I went and I read for this TV show called One Tree Hill. And I booked it. And I had to move to North Carolina two weeks later. And I was like, I don't know if I can do this.

This is my senior year in college. Like, these are the days everyone talks about. Thank God, my advisor Annie in the journalism school sat me down. I'd never heard her swear by the way. And excuse me if I offend anyone but look, it's a quote. And she looked at me, she goes, are you kidding me? Go! You can always come back to school.

This is what you want to do with your life. And this woman was like so sweet and little and like polite. And so I was shocked when she swore at me. I was like, oh my God. And so I went and and the show took off. And it was it was like the best of times. And the worst of times we all made our worst mistakes, we had some of our greatest successes. The girls and I are like so tight, which is the best. And we weren't always, and we talk about it. We came up through it together, and now it's like we're like a little crew of piranhas. Like anyone comes for one of us and we're all right there. And I love them with my whole heart.

And yeah, I became a director on that show. I mean, I got, I mean, the DGA, because of that show, I started going on text-outs and learning about production and really diving in, partially to keep myself sane because we were in this small town. We also couldn't get away from each other. It's like, look, we loved each other, but we couldn't get away from each other Um, it's kind of like being homeschooled, you know, you just want to get out in the world, but you're like there with your siblings and

You know, it's like it's so many things and it was beautiful and it was weird and It was fun and it was painful and we learned a lot. And I was doing environmental work, but also the attention, the becoming like a, becoming tabloid fodder is really traumatizing. And people say you signed up for it and it's like nobody signs up for it, you don't know what it is, you can't imagine what it is until it happens to you. And so I think there was a period where

I pushed away public attention as much as I could. And then, you know, I would go to the fundraiser, I would do the thing, but I really just, I didn't want to be out there. And then, Deepwater Horizon happened. And I was mad as hell. And I got a call from these lawyers at Global Green, who was this organization that I worked with for a very long time. And they said, everything you're seeing on the news is a lie. It's martial law down here.

It's bad. And something clicked and people had been asking me, why aren't you getting on Twitter? Why aren't you getting on Twitter? I was like, who cares about breakfast food photos? The irony of how many chefs I follow on social media. I care. It turns out. But I realize I could get on Twitter and I could go there and I could be the news. I'm a journalist. I can do this. I got on a plane two weeks later and I launched a Twitter account. And I was within two days doing satellite feed interviews on the news, telling people what I was seeing, telling people what the experience was, talking about the fact that they were busing in young men of color from the poorest parts of Louisiana and telling them that if they wore respirators on the beach during cleanup of carcinogenic toxic waste, they would lose their jobs because the photos looked

bad for BP. I talked about this on the news. And it was that experience where I went, oh, see, here's what's happened. I've been driving a car for a long time, okay? And then I got on the auto-bond and I put the pedal to the metal and now I know what it feels like to race and I'm racing for them. And I'm racing for you and I'm racing for that.

I over there who thinks he hates me but he's got kids and I want his kids to have healthcare and free school lunch and whatever. Like now I've tasted it and I'll never go back. And I and I realized that I could use my voice and I could use that gross kind of attention and it keyness that people want to put on celebrities and especially the way that they want to pick women apart like, you know, carcasses for the feast. And I was like, oh, I'm about to do something with this.

Here we go. And I had to learn and I had to sit at the feet of people smarter than me and I had to show up and I had to make mistakes and I still make mistakes and I'm not perfect. But when I tell you, I have applied a dedication to this like almost nothing else in my life, that's how it feels. And so that was really how the whole thing started. I did nine years on a

TV show and I set myself on fire as a warrior for my community while I was there. I love there. I love that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I don't think I ever, you know, for I work with so many people and speak to so many people and getting criticized is getting criticized or getting pulled apart or getting trolled

or whatever it is, whether it's the newspapers online, it doesn't feel any better, depending on your status and whatever whatever it is, whether it's the newspapers online, it doesn't feel any better depending on your status and whatever way it is. Money doesn't replace. People often think, oh yeah, well you probably don't hear it if you live in a mansion, right? And it's like, well, no, the people, the people, humans are humans, the same stuff hurts. It's not replaced. It cannot be replaced by a car or money or whatever it is. Yeah, and when your mom calls you crying because she is reading the comments,

or when your parents have someone show up at their home to threaten you, nothing protects you from that. Exactly. And it's really weird the way we treat people. Yeah. But I took my power back by living out loud as this warrior person. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. All right, Safiya. I'm going to ask you to use your warrior persona to do the final section of our podcast. Who is it? The speed round? So first, we've got a new part, which it's called fill in the blank. See, this is how you know I listen.

Yeah, I know. So this is fill in the blanks. Okay. So you have to fill in the blanks with the last word. And then we have the final final. Oh my god. Terrible picking. I'm literally my hands just started spilling. Okay, I'm going to try. But they're all they're all aimed at your worry and this like they're not just you know,

they're on brand. Okay, so freedom for all is everything. True equality starts with us. Being brave means. Being vulnerable. Absolute kindness is not... ...hateful. Acting has allowed me to... Have a platform.

The best acting is... Honest. Change is hardest when. When it's... When it's got a change inside, I think. Okay. I have no tolerance for mean people. Okay, good. Okay.

Here are you. That was good. You were quick. You were quick. That was good. Okay. Literally my hands are so pretty. Yeah.

No, I gave me this is stressful. Because here's the thing, you're sitting across from me and like we're in the warrior moment and we're talking about passion, but like also, I'm just a kid who can't believe I'm an adult, who's trying to figure it out, who's scared all the time and who's so sensitive that things that I read on the internet, whether they're amazing news stories

or mean comments, or like even when I watch dog food commercials, whether they're amazing news stories or mean comments, or even when I watch dog food commercials, all of it makes me cry. So it's like, I think as strong as you are, as is tender and as frightened as you are. And so I feel like it's also, I have the responsibility to share that part. It's really easy to talk about the masterpiece stuff.

But like, woo! So yeah, when I'm like, oh God, I have to perform and what if I don't do it well and I've got like, then my hand starts, it's fine. Yeah, exactly. I always say that to people, people like, I've been speaking since, I went to public speaking drama school in our 14,

finished when I was 18, I've been speaking on stages ever since I was 18. And so people are always like, don't you feel, do you feel scared when you're on stage? You've done it for so long. I'm like, I still feel scared. Every time before I walk onto a stage, if I care, I feel scared when you're on stage, you've done it for so long. I'm like, I still feel scared. Every time before I walk onto a stage, if I care, I feel scared.

And that's what I've learned that I feel scared when I most care. And I will, my heart will start beating faster. My hands can get shaky. I can feel sweaty. And I love that feeling now because I've learned to... Well, you know you're alive. To love it.

Yeah, I've learned to love it. I wanted to do good for you. And I was like, you gotta go, you gotta go. Well, you did really good.. To love it. Yeah, I've learned to love it. I wanted to do good for you. And I was like, you gotta find a good reason. Well, you did really good. Okay, so this is your final five. Okay. These are the ones that you know about. Yeah.

The rapid-fire quick-fire run. Okay, so one word or one sentence answers maximum. So Sophia, these are your final five. Question one. What have you been chasing in your life that you no longer pursue? Approval. Nice.

Okay, question two. So that's a work in progress, but that's the one. What question do you wish more people would ask each other more often? What keeps you up at night? Question number three, what was your biggest lesson from the last 12 months? Slowing down. Okay, question number four, what do you believe most people miss understand about activism? I think people believe that at least people in my position do it for points.

They don't realize we do it at our own risk for love. That's great. I love that question. I'm fifth and final one. You're amazing in this part of the way. These are like so concise and precise. Someone's good at Twitter. It's good. The fifth and final question. If you could create a law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

I would love to ban lies online or in print. I don't think fake news should be allowed. I don't think manipulating people for corporate profit lying to people about their health, about the cleanliness of their water or the safety of their food, I don't think that should be allowed. That's a great answer.

That's a really good answer. That's my law. That's your final question. I'm out at the government. That's the law. That's the great answer. That's really good. That's my law. That's your final. I did the government That's the second one. Yeah, I love it. Thank you, Sophia. That was amazing. That was incredible. I'm so impressed You're like yeah, that was such great answers. That's a short period of time and you completely crushed it So thank you so much, but thank you Sophia for coming on today I'm so grateful to have you on on purpose. I feel like we have to do a part two as well. There's so much more we could talk about,

but anyone who's watching or listening today, please, please, please, go and follow Sifir on Instagram, if you don't already on Twitter, go and listen to work in progress, such an important podcast, such a powerful podcast, incredible guests, please, please, please, go and listen and go and subscribe to the podcast as well. And get involved in the activism that you are passionate about that Sophia's involved in, get involved through her programs, anything that she's up to,

she's always sharing it online. So if anything she said is really resonated with you or anything that really connects with you, then please, please, please, go and follow our point. Don't just stand by and wait, go and get involved and become an activist as well and your own right and your own space and your own way so it's a fear any final messages for us anyway you'd like anyone to find out more about you. Gosh I mean yeah online the podcast that's all great I should hope that everyone is listening to us has read your book. That feels important. Not out yet. Well, will it be out by the time this comes out?

I don't think so. Okay, so then I hope that everyone who's listening to this is pre-ordered your book. Hello. It's very important. Yeah, my books got a lot of what we're talking about right now. I'm just helping people really, you know, it's cool to think like a monk. And that's because I mean, monks first of all have the happiest brains, data-driven wise on the planet. And I just really want more people to have their own peace

and stillness and purpose so that they can affect greater change in the world. That's really what amongst mind is, is that if we can create a beautiful place to live here, then we can create a beautiful place to live here. And so I'm approaching my activism from that point of view because that's what I can offer and that's what I'm fascinated by. And I'm really grateful for all the work you're doing because together, that's when we're strongest, you know, outside in and inside out. We need, we need both. We need both. Thank you so much.

Like that outside in and inside out. Yeah, we need both. Yeah. We need both. Thank you so much. Like that outside in and inside out. Yeah, we need both. Yeah. We need both. Thank you so much. But it's not bumper sticker. Thank you so much for coming on purpose. Thank you everyone for listening. There were so many insights.

I said to Sophia, we were gonna talk for 45 minutes an hour. We're talking for over an hour and a half. What is the exact time? About an hour and a half. Hour and 50 minutes. Just for you, I hope this has been a powerful episode. Make sure you Instagram, tweet, Facebook, LinkedIn, all of your top quotes, thoughts, ideas from Sophia,

anything that stood out to you. I love seeing them because it helps me learn what's really connecting with you. Please tag me in Sophia in on Instagram so that we can interact and engage with each and all every one of you. And I can't wait to see you again next week. Thank you everyone for listening.

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