On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Stop Trying to “Win” An Argument With Your Partner! (THIS Shift Will Turn Conflict into Communication)

Episode Date: February 20, 2026

Why can it sometimes feel easier to connect with the outside world than with the person we love most? Jay explores why love can feel stressful instead of safe, even when both people care deeply. Drawing from his Audible Original Messy Love: Difficult Conversations for Deeper Connection, he breaks down the everyday habits that quietly create distance: subtle disrespect, scorekeeping, unspoken resentment, mismatched conflict styles, and the fear of saying what we really feel. Through real sessions with three couples, he shows that what we often label as incompatibility is rarely about love itself, it’s about unresolved hurt, inherited fight patterns, and the deep need to feel respected, recognized, and taken seriously by the person we care about most. Jay introduces five transformative principles that can help couples turn conflict into connection. From understanding how respect, not chemistry, is the true foundation of lasting love, to breaking the silent resentment of scorekeeping, he invites listeners to reflect on where imbalance, miscommunication, and unexpressed needs may be shaping their connection. He explains how our conflict styles, whether we vent, hide, or explode, are protective patterns learned over time, and why repair, not perfection, is the true marker of a healthy relationship. In this episode, you'll learn: How to Build Love on Respect, Not Just Chemistry How to Stop Scorekeeping Before It Turns Into Resentment How to Express Needs Without Blame How to Identify and Improve Your Conflict Style How to Repair After an Argument Instead of Withdrawing How to Communicate Feelings Instead of Accusations Healthy love isn’t built in grand gestures or perfect moments. It’s built when two people choose understanding over ego, consistency over intensity, and respect over being right. And knowing those choices are available to you at any moment. Listen to Jay’s Messy Love: Difficult Conversations for Deeper Connection on Audible. Visit https://www.audible.com/pd/Messy-Love-Audiobook/B0G16Z76ZD With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty Join over 750,000 people to receive my most transformative wisdom directly in your inbox every single week with my free newsletter. Subscribe here. What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:17 Difficult Conversations for Deeper Connection 02:24 Principle #1: Influence, Respect, and Recognition 14:50 Principle #2: Scorekeeping 20:15 Principle #3: Conflict Styles 25:50 Principle #4: The X, Y, Z Communication Method 33:14 Principle #5: Create a 30-Day AgreementSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human. I'm Bowen-Yay. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan-Cortina-26 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boen, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves.

I'm Mike Delarocha, a host of Sacred Lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect, and heal. This year, we're talking honestly about mental health, relationships, and the patterns we're ready to release. If you're looking for clarity, connection, and healthier ways to show up in your life, Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dellerooch on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie.

You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable? Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy. A new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist. 12 months, 12 areas of your life. Money, love, career, confidence. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for your...

entire year. Listen to DJ Hester Prins, music is therapy, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. Today we're talking about messy love, difficult conversations for deeper connection. We're living in a time where people are more connected than ever before. Yet so many of us feel deeply disconnected in our relationships. We have access to endless information, constantly, constant communication and more tools than ever to improve our lives. We set goals for our careers, our health, our routines, and our personal growth. But rarely do we pause to reflect on how we love, how we listen, and how we show up for the people closest to us. Many of us were never taught

what healthy love actually looks like. We weren't taught how to communicate when emotions run high, how to repair after conflict or how to feel safe being honest without fear of loss. Instead, we carry patterns from our past into our present, hoping things will somehow work themselves out. And when relationships feel messy, confusing or painful, we often blame ourselves or the other person without realizing that most of what we're experiencing is learned behavior, not personal failure. Today, I want to share five powerful relationship lessons from my new audible original messy love, difficult conversations for deeper connection.

My hope is that these are not just ideas for you to think about, but active practices you can bring in to your real life relationships. In my audible original messy love, I sit down with three different couples over three sessions each. Together we explore how to build emotional safety, navigate conflict and rebuild trust in their relationships. I'll walk you through five core principles from the series and after each one offer you a simple exercise you can try for yourself, whether with a romantic partner, a family relationship or any bond that holds value for you. And to hear how these tools come to life, make sure to check out messy love available only on Audible.

Audible's well-being collection has everything to inspire and support you in every step of your well-being journey. So let's get started. Principle 1 is all about influence, respect and recognition. Early in the series, I meet Amanda and Ryan, a couple who feel out of sync in their schedules and emotional connection with one another. I quickly identify that beneath their frustration is a shared desire to feel influence, respect and recognition from one another for what they do. When we don't feel seen or valued, we start to build resentment, not because we don't care, but because we don't feel safe to keep giving.

Let me share a moment from my conversation with Amanda and Ryan that really captures what this looks like in real life. As you listen, notice how both of them aren't actually arguing about tasks or schedules. They're wrestling with something deeper, the need to feel valued and understood in the relationship. Hearing Ryan and Amanda share, it's becoming clear to me that the underlying core issue is respect, recognition and influence. In any relationship, people aren't really arguing just about the finances. They're arguing about, do I have? have an influence in the decisions we make. People are not just arguing over what roles they do

or how many chores they have. They're arguing over how much respect they feel. And ultimately, everyone wants to feel recognized by their partner for the work they put in. And so that's at the core of this relationship. Thank you both for being so vulnerable and open. I really appreciate it. This is the reality of what we're all dealing with, which is we like each other, we love each other, things make sense, but there's the realities of life, whether that be financial, emotional, mental. And as I'm listening to you both, when we really get beneath the surface, it seems like less of a income conversation and more of a influence, respect, and recognition conversation.

And I mean, Ryan, you just said totally straight away. Yeah. And it took a lot of years to understand, like, when things happened. it's not personal. Like if I feel like she took a low blow, understanding that it's not her legitimately wanting to hurt me as just her protecting herself in the same way that I do it in my way

when I get insecure, when I feel less than, my natural reaction is to get angry and loud and big because then I don't feel weak. What are you exact roles right now? I get the sense overall. But what are your exact roles right now? And how have you learned to place value? It sounds like in those heated moments,

there's an unequal value on certain roles. Now I generally go to Pilates or work out before I teach because I need to like set myself up for the day. And because by 9 o'clock my phone, like I have a work phone and obviously personal phone, the amount of people needing my attention is so, intense that I really like those hours. So usually before Ryan and Piggy wake up, I've already worked out and taught two classes and I'm already like well into my day. Late morning or midday,

that's where a little chaos comes in as if Ryan and Piggy have gone for a walk and I come home and I'm a little bit of a tornado and then I go to the Wellness Center and I see patients. She's kind of always a tornado because everything's stacked. If the smallest little glitch and the schedule happens, things start to fall apart, I'm the support role. So back to what you're asking. Traditionally, I'd be like in the 50s, like the man that goes to work. We kind of joke about that. I'm more of the homemaker and I make everything run around the house and all of the errands

and the store and things like that, you know, and she works. And in those moments where she's flustered and busy and like, I got to do this, I got to do that. And I'm trying to like make her, like make her some food. and make this and gather this. Another thing that happens a lot when she's like that, she'll just be barking orders and do this, do that. And like, where is this?

Where is that? So now I'm freaking out having anxiety tack because I can't find this piece of paper or we ran out of this and she needs that. And so that's where the resentment builds up. It's like, I do so much. But in this moment, you'll make a comment, like, I'm not doing enough.

And all this other stuff that I did that you have no idea that helped you. helped your day out and made it more efficient, you're going to harp on this one thing, and now I have to feel bad about that. What you're hearing there isn't really about who does more. It's about what happens when appreciation turns into accounting. When recognition fades, resentment fills the gap. Here's an exercise I want you to try. For the first set of the exercise, I invite you to ask yourself, in what moments do you feel seen and recognized in your relationship. And then, when do you feel invisible or overlooked, like you aren't being seen

and recognized in that connection? Notice what comes up for you, then see if you can share this information with the other person in your life. I want to start with something that sounds obvious, but changes everything. A lot of people think the foundation of a romantic relationship is chemistry. But chemistry is the spark. The foundation is respect. And here's how you can tell the difference between a relationship that feels exciting and a relationship that actually feels safe. In a healthy relationship, you feel respected, recognized, and influential. Not in charge, not dominant, influential. Like your presence matters. Like your feelings register. Like your voice changes the room because love without respect doesn't feel like love. It feels like anxiety with good

memories. The respect part is really important. Respect isn't just being polite. Respect is how someone treats your reality. Do they take your feeling seriously? Do they handle your boundaries like they matter? Do they speak to you like you're someone they're proud to be with, especially when they're annoyed. There's a reason respect is such a big deal in research. Respect is one of those things you don't appreciate until it's missing. Because when respect is missing, everything starts to feel personal. A joke feels like a jab. A disagreement feels like dismissal. A boundary feels like you're asking for too much. And here's a modern very 2026 reality. A lot of women aren't breaking up because they stopped loving someone.

They're breaking up because they got tired of being handled casually. The relationship didn't end in one big betrayal. It ended in a thousand tiny moments of disrespect. The eye roll, the sarcasm, the you're too sensitive, the I forgot that happens every time it's important to you. Respect is the difference between I don't agree with you and I don't take you seriously. Notice the difference between those.

I don't agree with you as respectful. I don't take you seriously as personal. Now let's talk recognition, because this is where so many relationships quietly fail. Recognition is the feeling of my partner gets me. Not just my highlight real, not just my cute side, not just my social self, me.

In psychology, there's a concept called perceived partner responsiveness. It's basically the science version of I Feel Seen. It means you feel your partner understands you, cares about you and appreciates you. And here's why this matters. When you don't feel recognized, you start performing. You start editing yourself. You start picking your words carefully. You start managing your emotions so you don't ruin the vibe. And you can call it being chill, but it's actually being alone while in a relationship. Recognition is what makes love feel like a place you can exhale. A lot of people I speak to say some version of this. They say they love me, but I don't feel known.

Or they're there, but I feel invisible. And in real life dating culture, recognition looks like simple things. They remember what stresses you out without you having to remind them. They notice when your energy changes. They don't make you explain the same. emotional pain twice. That's recognition and it's rare because it requires attention. Now here's the piece that changes the whole game. Influence. Influence is when your partner is open to being affected by you, not controlled by you, affected by you. This is where the Gottman research is powerful. John Gottman's work on couples consistently points to the importance of accepting influence, being able to say in small daily ways, your opinion matters.

I can be moved by you. I'm not in a power struggle with you. And Gottman's team has written about how, in heterosexual relationships, a common predictor of long-term stability is whether the man can accept influence from his partner, meaning he can soften, consider, adjust and share power rather than turning everything into a standoff. Let me make this very modern and practical.

A lot of people think influence means I get my way. Nope. Influence means I don't feel like I have to fight to be considered. It's the difference between being with someone who listens and being with someone who only hears you when you've reached your breaking point. Influence shows up in tiny moments. You say something bothered you and they don't argue out of it. You make a request and they don't treat you like an attack.

You bring up a need and they don't punish you with withdrawal. When influence is missing, people start doing what they're famous for doing. They start adapting. They get quieter. They get easier. They get more low maintenance. And everyone thinks the relationship is better now until they leave. Not because they stopped loving them, but because they stopped feeling like themselves.

Here's the cultural trap. Being cool versus being respected. Here's a trend I want to call out gently because it's everywhere. So many women have been taught to be the cool girl, the unbothered one, the easy one, that I'm not like that one. But the truth is, being low maintenance is not the goal. Being highly respected is because love is not earned by shrinking. Love is sustained by mutual care. If you have to downplay your needs to make someone love you, that isn't love. That's emotional rent. If you're listening right now and thinking, okay, but how do I know if this is my relationship, here are three questions that cut through the noise. One, do I feel respected when we disagree? Not when we're in love mode, when we're in conflict. Do I feel recognized on my hard days?

or am I only lovable when I'm convenient? And number three, do I have influence or do I have to escalate to be heard? Do I need to cry, threaten to leave or shut down for my feelings to count? Because if your relationship requires emotional extremes to produce basic consideration, it's not intimacy, it's instability. So here's what I want to share about principle one. Respect is how love stays safe. Recognition is how love stays seen and influence is how love stays equal.

Now principle two is all about scorekeeping. This is another key principle that plays out with Amanda and Ryan and is at the root of so many couples, I mean. Scorekeeping happens when we track what the other person did or didn't do and quietly use that information to build a case against them. But over time, this internal scoreboard can turn into resentment and emotional. distance. Scorekeeping makes us adversaries. Shared understanding makes us partners. And when couples begin naming what they value in each other, instead of what's missing, the emotional tone of the relationship changes almost immediately. I'm Bowen-Yen. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina 2020-26 winner Olympic Games,

we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boone. Hi, hi, Matt. A-L-L. Hello. Hey, Matt, hey Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to two guys, five rings on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanko Wali.

And I'm Hurricane de Bolu. It's a new year. And on the podcast's health stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and to start doing that.

We break down the topics you want to know more about. Sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your body in mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other. Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey there, this is Dr. Jesse Mills, director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health and host of the mailroom podcast. Each January guys everywhere make the same resolutions. Get stronger, work harder, fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? To kick off the new year, I sat down with Dr. Steve Poulter, a psychologist with over 30 years' experience, helping men unpack shame, anxiety, and emotional pain they were never taught to name. In a powerful two-part conversation, we discuss why men aren't emotionally bulletproof,

why shame hides in plain sight, and how real strength comes from listening to yourself and to others. Guys who are toxic, they're immature, or they've got something they just haven't resolved. Once that gets resolved, then there comes empathy as in compassion. If you want this to be the year you stop powering through pain and start understanding what's underneath, listen to the mailroom on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. In my work, I've noticed that contribution usually shows up in five areas. Financial, mental, physical, emotional, spiritual. Conflict often happens when two people, people are giving generously just in different currencies. And because those currencies aren't named, both people feel depleted and misunderstood, even used sometimes. Conflict often arises when

someone feels they are overgiving in one area and under receiving in another area without naming it. So here's an exercise. Your next step is the same one I asked Amanda and Ryan to do. Ask yourself, in what areas of your relationship do you feel like you? are overgiving and under receiving. And in what areas do you feel you're undergiving and over receiving? Share your findings with your partner and see if you can make any alterations to find more balance in your relationship. And schoolkeeping's often very unlabeled and random. It can be, I plan the last three dates. I always text first. I was there when they were struggling, but where were they when I needed support? I apologize they didn't. Schoolkeeping doesn't. You

usually start with resentment. It starts with imbalance. And imbalance doesn't feel dangerous at first. It feels annoying. But over time, small mental tallies turn into emotional distance. And here's the part that's uncomfortable. Scorekeeping feels justified because most of the time it is. The reason we keep score from a psychological perspective is humans are wired for fairness. Research in social psychology shows that people are deeply sensitive to perceived inequity. When one partner feels they're investing more than they're receiving, relationship satisfaction drops significantly. Equity theory basically says, we don't just want love, we want fairness. And when something feels unfair, your brain flags it. That's not pettiness, that's biology.

But here's where it gets complicated. Fairness in relationships is really. rarely mathematical. It's emotional. One person might be carrying more financially, carrying more emotionally, carrying more mentally, and the imbalance might be temporary or chronic. The problem isn't noticing imbalance. The problem is turning it into a silent ledger. Let's make this real for 2026. Schoolkeeping today looks like tracking who initiates plans, noticing who says I love you first and more often, watching who shares their story on social media, counting how long it takes for someone to reply,

mentally logging who compromised last. It sounds small, but it changes the emotional tone of the relationship because once you start keeping score, you stop giving freely. You give to balance the sheet, and that shifts love from generosity to transaction. John Gottman's research on relationships found something fascinating.

Couples don't survive because they split everything 50-50. They survive because they respond to each other's bids for connection. A bid can be small. Look at this. Can I tell you something? Are you okay? Healthy couples turn toward those bids about 86% of the time. Unhappy couples?

Around 33%. Not because they're evil, because they're tired, because they feel unseen, because they're already keeping score. And when you're keeping score, you start missing bids on purpose. Oh, now you want my attention. Oh, now you're affectionate. Oh, now you care. Scorekeeping turns connection into revenge.

Scorekeeping feels powerful. It gives you evidence. But here's the truth. Scorekeeping is usually unspoken resentment. And unspoken resentment becomes emotional. withdrawal. You don't scream, you don't leave. You just start caring a little less. You stop initiating. You stop softening. You stop breaching. Not because you don't love them, because you're protecting yourself from feeling foolish. So what's the alternative? This is important. The solution is not to

ignore imbalance. The solution is to address it directly instead of storing it. Scorekeeping thrives in silence. Healthy love says, I'm feeling stretched here. I need more support. I notice what you're giving me here, but I do feel like I'm carrying this alone. That's not nagging, that's clarity. Because once resentment builds, you're not negotiating needs. You're negotiating wounds. The next thing I want to talk to you about is conflict styles. In messy love, the second couple I meet is Gladys and Justin, who are having a difficult time with the way they communicate and trust in one another. I shared with them three core fight styles or conflict styles. Venting, I want to fix this right now, hiding, I need space and time to reflect on my feelings, and exploding what happens

when the first two go unheard. Here is a moment where I introduced this idea to Gladys and Justin. As you listen, notice how naming the conflict style immediately lowers the temperature. Often when we finally speak up, we speak louder but not clearer. When I say louder, I don't mean you're shouting. Yeah. It's more confident, but it doesn't mean confidence is clarity in is that person really able to understand what we're saying. That's why this exercise of that trigger and reaction is so important because what's happening is the trigger is speaking louder, maybe not clearer, and the reaction is minimizing and projecting value onto it. And that's where everything escalates. What happens when it escalates? So you don't feel seen and heard,

Gladys, Justin will say, can't believe we're here again. It's too small. Why are we doing this? Where does that go? I just shut down, which is the next one, but I just shut down. And then that's when he kind of wants to have a conversation. And at that point, I don't want to have a conversation. It just becomes an argument. And then the conversation becomes very defensive. And then at some point, that is probably the biggest thing, like I feel it in my chest when this happens. I get so angry that I'll just scream and be like, I don't care anymore, just get off my phone. Like, I don't even care. I don't want to talk to you.

Walk away. And I start becoming really rude. Yeah. And that's when we've already gone too far where it's like it's unsavable at that point, that conversation because tension's high, there's loads of emotion. We've lost that rational part of us that has the ability to. Justin, your thoughts on that? Yeah, that's pretty accurate.

And it happens on both behalf. You know, there's sometimes where we'll shut down and then I do the same. We just don't talk. And then there's like that awkward silence. And then somebody breaks the ice. Most of the time it's me, you know, coming to try to figure it out. Right.

Yeah. And so what we're really speaking about here is that in terms of your communication challenges, the communication challenge is for Gladys is saying what you really want, when you want it, and being really clear about it and for it not to be a trigger. I think the challenge is when we only communicate,

communicate when it's triggered, it's no longer communication, it's now a trigger. That's why we call it there. And I think communication is actually there's nothing wrong right now. And there's nothing that I'm agitated right now. And in this piece, I'm actually going to share what I want. If I communicate when I'm not triggered, chances are I won't trigger the other person. But if I only communicate when I'm triggered, chances I'm going to lead to a reaction. And I think for yourself, in that just in, if you're only reacting to a trigger, you're going to have a reaction. But for you to break this cycle, we've got to make sure that you're able to, even if Gladys gets triggered, to be able to approach it in a form of validation and making her feel seen and heard. And so there's responsibility and accountability on both sides because we don't want

to get to the escalation point, because that's the point of no return where repairing from that is a lot harder. When we understand how we fight, we stop assuming it's about whether we care. Here's a moment where we go deeper into triggers and how quickly reactions can spiral when clarity is missing. Conflict styles aren't flaws. There are patterns we learn to protect ourselves. But when those patterns go unnamed, they collide. The goal isn't to eliminate conflict. It's to understand it well enough that repair becomes possible. Conflict styles aren't flaws. There are patterns we learn to protect ourselves. But when those patterns go unnamed, they collide. The goal isn't to eliminate conflict, it's to understand it well enough

that repair becomes possible. For this exercise, I invite you to identify which fight style is most common for you in your relationship. Then consider why you think this style developed and whether any adjustments could be made. Are you a fixer, a venter or an exploder? Most relationships don't fall apart because of big betrayals. They fall apart because of how two people fight or don't fight. Your conflict style is the invisible script you run when something feels off. It's how you react when you're hurt, when you're misunderstood, when you're disappointed. And most of us didn't choose our style. We inherited it. Here's what's fascinating. Research shows that conflict is not predictive of divorce. Avoidance of repair is. Gottman's work shows it's not about whether you argue,

it's about whether you repair quickly. Do you soften after? Do you circle back? Do you say I didn't mean it that way? Or do you stay in ego? Here's the hard question. Ask yourself, when we fight, do I feel closer after or more alone? Because conflict styles don't determine compatibility. Repair does. It's not about finding someone who you never argue with. It's about finding someone who stays with you even after you argue. principle number four. The final couple we meet in messy love, my audible original, is Jeremy and Richard, who are deeply in love and committed to growing together, but working through very different communication styles. This is something I see quite often in my work with couples and can be

incredibly frustrating without a solution. For this, I offer the XYZ method, a simple framework for expressing needs without blame or judgment. It goes like this. When you X, I feel why, how can we work together to get to Z? Let me share a moment where I introduced this framework to Jeremy and Richard. The challenges as humans, we all internalize all statements. So most people, when they hear this statement, you don't understand me. What we hear is, you're not an understanding person. Yeah, sure.

Right? I'm not an understanding person. And then what the person on the receiving end does is think of all the ways in which they are an understanding person. Hey, but wait a minute, I understood when you had that doctor's, hey, wait a minute, I understood when we were with Jay. It's like, no, the way you want to share is very specific. When you do X, I feel Y.

Yeah. How can we get to Z? We can use this framework that is evolved from many solution-focused therapies to be really specific, right? That's how we want to try and have that conversation moving forward. Because the other challenge we all say to our partners is we all say, you always do this and you never do that, right? You always leave the dishes unclean.

You never organize vacations for us to go on. And so we speak in finality and completeness as opposed to when you leave the dishes uncleaned, very specific, when, not always, not never, when you leave the dishes uncleaned, I feel you don't value me. Whereas you could have just said that as you don't make me feel valued.

And that lands completely differently. You just don't value me. And the other person is like, what do you mean I don't value? I just made you coffee this morning. I took the dog for a walk. I cooked us dinner last night. What do you mean? Like, no, you don't value me.

The dishes were uncleaned last night. And now you've already lost the argument. When you do X, I feel Y. What you're doing is you're taking accountability for your feeling and you're being specific to clear up when you feel that way. And then the person gets an opportunity. to explain how those two things are not connected. So what I want you to do, Richard,

is I want you to express something to Jeremy. You may have done something before. I want you to take something you shared in anger or flippantly or something you shared without this process. Maybe you said, you don't value me. Maybe you said, you're careless with money. And I want you to now say it with this new rhythm and new script. I was just kind of thinking about, like,

when that typically happens, it's usually around like cleaning the house. Oh, that's true. That's where my mind went to first. And I'm a very clean person. I just want to state for the record, but he's freakishly obsessively clean. I don't think you're a dirty person at all.

I think you can be messy. And when I spend a lot of time making our house nice and clean and lovely like a hotel, I and when so yeah so now I want to use the script so how would Richard have said that before today how would Richard have said that how would you say this without the script um god why can't you just wipe that up you're a dirty slob brilliant or like god I just cleaned up deep cleaned the whole house and like you're you know making a sandwich you can't even wipe up the crumbs he will get bothered by me eating food after he's cleaned the kitchen

Deep clean, but like, I don't mind just like wipe down the counter. There's like crumbs. How would you say it with our new skill set? Okay. When you do these kind of things. No, it's been specific. When you leave the crumbs on the counter after I clean, I deep cleaned our home, I feel like you don't value the love and work that I put into our household.

to make it nice for us. So how do we get to the Z? Yeah. What can we do? Well, what do you need at that point to get to Z? Well, in order for me to get to Z, I would want you to be more mindful when you've noticed that I took a lot of time out of my day

to make our home the way it is. Sure. Yeah, that comes off much better than. that would make me feel valued. Sure. That, you know, you appreciate all the hard work that I do for our household. Here's where we take that XYZ method and apply it in real time. So what makes the XYZ method so powerful isn't just the words themselves.

It's the space it creates between reaction and understanding. So often in relationships, we think we're arguing about the behavior. But what we're really fighting is the means. we've attached to it. The moment we assume intention, the conversation becomes about who's right instead of what's true. The XYZ method helps us untangle that. When you X anchors us in observation, not interpretation. It asks us to describe what happened, not what we think it says about our partner. When you say, I feel why, it reminds us that emotions are not weapons, they're signals. And when When we take responsibility for our feelings, we stop asking our partner to defend themselves

and instead invite them to understand us. Finally, when you say, how can we get to Z, that shifts the energy completely. It transforms conflict from a courtroom into a collaboration. For this exercise, think of a point of frustration in your relationship and attempt to communicate with the other person using the XYZ model. make sure you feel heard, then create the space for the other person to do the same. Let's talk about something that sounds simple, but quietly determines whether a relationship deepens or deteriorates. Communicating your feelings, not your opinions. Not your analysis,

not your sarcasm, your feelings. But here's the truth. Most people think they're communicating their feelings when they're actually communicating their conclusions. And those of very different things. When something hurts, most of us don't say, I felt ignored. We say, you never listen. When we feel insecure, we don't say, I'm feeling anxious. We say, you don't care. That shift from feeling to accusation changes everything. Here's the hard question. Ask yourself, when I'm hurt, do I communicate to be understood? Or do I communicate to win? because these two intentions create completely different outcomes. And our final principle today comes from my conversation with Justin and Gladys.

Lasting change feels overwhelming when we think in terms of forever. But when we focus on just 30 days, trust becomes achievable again through small, consistent actions. So what I suggest to them is to create a 30-day agreement, sharing a moment now where I introduce this idea to Justin and Gladys. As you listen, notice how the energy shifts when the focus moves from forever to just the next 30 days. For the remainder of this session, I want to focus in on creating what I see is a 30-day agreement that you both make together, that becomes a rolling agreement, which is an agreement to everything that you both just mention the growth, the love, the connection, but we want to do it with practical terminology.

And what I mean by that is, well, how often do we want to talk? What do we want to talk about? How often do we want to meet and connect? Let's structure that. Let's create what our current boundaries are and where we want to stop them, because what we don't want it to become is that right now you both feel really clear that it's not time to get back together or it would be too early, it would be too rushed, it would be too forced. And we want to get to a point where we're where we don't rush into it or fall into those moments, but that you both are able to progress. And so I want you to talk about

what a 30-day agreement would look like. It's like what are we both signing up for in terms of time for connection, in terms of space, in terms of how often we're getting together, in terms of whatever our boundaries. Okay, we may spend one or two, three days together in a row, but then going to need two days off.

Like, I'm going to, you know, whatever it is. And then that can change. That agreement becomes something that you come back to. But actually, in the next 30 days, I'm willing to spend one more day together. And it becomes like that guideline I gave you for the three-part communication.

It's that whenever emotions take over in either direction, you have something to turn to. And you both keep each other accountable to that. You're not making a commitment for the next 12 months. Yeah. It's a 30-day agreement that, again, what I would encourage you to do in 30 days is to sit down and do this again together

as if I was there and say, okay, well, this is what went well. this is what didn't work. Maybe we didn't spend enough time together. Maybe we just spent too much time together. Maybe there was this. And so then you create a new agreement. And it's 30 days,

which means you're not signing a contract for life. I think that's sometimes what's so hard about relationships as we make these big decisions. We were like, oh, we're just going to move back in together and figure it out. And it's like, well, okay, well, what does that look like in 30 days and 60 days? And so this patient approach is healthier for LAA.

It's healthier for both of you as you've both talked about. And so if right now, you're both signing up to no other romantic partners. It's a 30-day agreement. If that changes in 90 days, it's something you can update each other on and move on. But at least there's clarity,

and you both have a transparent approach to it. I agree. I don't know why imagining. It has to be like a three-page agreement, you know? No, that's what I'm imagining. To be honest, the simpler and the less to better. To me, it's not about how many points you have on it. It's more about having the key things that move the needle

for both of you and checking. in with how you feel. So yeah, I would say I would like you both to like write this out in your words together. Okay. This would be a great activity to do together as your homework. Print it out. Keep it somewhere really, really clear where you both have the same print out the same words. You've chosen those words together. And ideas for each as well, you know, you may find that going out for brunch and dinner is nice, but then you want to add other activities and things and trips or whatever else it that includes. I think getting language down right so that you both feel really clear about it and you know what you're honoring would be something I would recommend you both do after this together.

Does that feel good? This feels really good. It does, yeah. The beauty of the 30-day contract isn't in grand promises. It's in small, consistent actions that rebuild trust slowly and intentionally. Trust isn't restored through intensity. It's restored through repetition. Here's an exercise. Create a 30-day contract with the other person in your relationship. In the agreement, be sure to include these three things. One, identify your core pillars, what are integral to the relationship, what they are and what they mean to you. Two, set realistic commitments and boundaries that you both feel good about. Number three, revisit and renew your agreement regularly. This is a working document and not a one-and-done deal. These five principles are just a few. These five principles are just a

few of the powerful insights you'll hear in my Audible original, Messy Love. For much more where that came from, please check out Messy Love exclusively on Audible. Check it out at audible.com forward slash messy love. Thank you for listening. Remember, I'm forever in your corner and always rooting for you. I'm Bowen-Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Quartina 2026 winner Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boen, hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo.

Hey, Matt, hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. about identity, loss, purpose, peace, faith, and everything in between. Celebrities, thinkers, everyday people, some have answers. Most are still figuring it out. And if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on my iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

What is something you've had to unlearn about love? That it's earned. That I was unworthy of love. that it needs to be forever for it to count. February is the month of love. Whether you're in a relationship, casually dating, or proudly single, it's a great time to reflect on yourself and what you want.

I'm Hope Woodard, host of the Boy Sober podcast, and each week we're looking at love from every angle. Listen to Boy Sober. That's B-O-Y-S-O-B-E-R. On the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an I-Heart podcast, guaranteed human.