On Purpose with Jay Shetty - Susan Wojcicki ON: How to Avoid Burnout in a Leadership Role & Learning to Celebrate the Small Wins

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

Today I sit down with one of the most influential women in the tech industry, Susan Wojcicki. Susan Wojcicki is CEO of YouTube, the world’s most popular digital video platform used by more than a billion people across the globe to access information, share video, and shape culture. An early champion of online video who was instrumental in Google's 2006 acquisition of YouTube, Susan now oversees YouTube's content and business operations, engineering, and product development.Susan shares to us her story from studying history and literature to being a tech icon. She also talks about the importance of balancing time at work and spending time with family, having her mom as an inspiration in her parenting, and why it’s necessary to practice supportive leadership.What We Discuss:00:00:00 Intro00:01:42 Start a YouTube channel00:03:40 From a humanities major to being a tech icon00:08:00 Sharing her garage to Google00:10:24 Acquiring YouTube00:14:17 Day in a life of a YouTube CEO00:19:30 Supportive leadership00:24:52 Celebrating the little successes00:29:29 Diversity in tech industry00:32:06 The future of tech00:36:33 “Be persistent and not give up”00:40:27 Her mom as an inspiration00:45:33 Final Five with Susan WojcickiEpisode ResourcesSusan Wojcicki | InstagramSusan Wojcicki | TwitterSusan Wojcicki | FacebookDo you want to meditate daily with me? Go to go.calm.com/onpurpose to get 40% off a Calm Premium Membership. Experience the Daily Jay. Only on CalmWant to be a Jay Shetty Certified Life Coach? Get the Digital Guide and Workbook from Jay Shetty https://jayshettypurpose.com/fb-getting-started-as-a-life-coach-podcast/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Increasing your earnings millions of listeners have trusted us to help them make progress with their financial goals You can listen to how to money on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts at the time No one was sure what was gonna happen. There were not a lot of believers. In fact, like there had actually been a really well-known article that had been published so week before we bought YouTube that said only a moron would buy YouTube. And that was actually like a headline news story that ran. And they didn't understand user-generated content. They didn't understand that average people can post content and have that be really successful and that other people would want to see it. Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow. Now you know

that I'm always excited to dive into the minds of people who've done phenomenal things, take an incredible leap, maybe start at things with a bit of risk and excitement, and we're here to unpack how they did that, what they did, what they think they got right, the failures they went through, the journey that they've carved for themselves. And today's guest is Susan Wigiski,

the CEO of YouTube, the world's most popular digital video platform used by more than a billion people across the globe to access information, share video, and shape culture. An early champion of online video who was instrumental in Google's 2006 acquisition of YouTube. Susan now oversees YouTube's content and business operations, engineering and product development.

Please welcome to the show Susan Wogzicki. Susan, thank you so much for doing this, for being here, for giving us this access into your incredible mind and life. And it's been wonderful sharing a few moments of pleasantries with you previously, but I'm very excited for this interview. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I'm obviously, you know, for me, YouTube has been massively instrumental in my personal journey. And so this is truly an honor for me. I remember sitting in a ethnic minority

TV training day run by the BBC in London. And so they're doing this ethnic minority presenters training. There were around six people, brown and black people in a room. I signed up to see if I had any skills to be in the world of presenting in media. And at the end of it, they said to me, they said, yeah, you've got some really good skills. And we really think you should pursue this career. And I was like, great. Do you have a job at the BBC? Obviously I'm born and raised in London. And I said, do you have any jobs at the BBC or anywhere in media? I'll start for like next and nothing. I just really want to be in this world because I believe I have a message to share. And I remember them looking at me with blank faces. And they said to me, there's no jobs in media. And there's no jobs in this industry. And I said, well,

did you just invite six ethnic minority people to tell us there's no jobs in media? And they literally said to me, they said, you should start a YouTube channel. And my reaction to them was, well, that only works for Justin Bieber. Like, that was literally the thought in my head. And here we are today. So, very grateful to you, very grateful to YouTube on such a deep level.

But I want to talk about you today before YouTube. I appreciate that, that's right. And I've heard that from so many YouTube creators where they wanted to get started, they tried, and for whatever reason, they were not successful on the traditional media path, and then they started a YouTube channel and had tons of success afterwards.

And that's actually added a lot of diversity in backgrounds and people, and also what they want to cover as well well and type of content that we're covering. So I love hearing stories like that, so thank you for sharing. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I want to talk about YouTube today, of course, but I do want to talk about your life before and beyond YouTube. And I think what I was fascinated about most, and I don't know if people know this, but

a lot of people may not recognize that you actually studied history and literature and university. And now, of course, you're a huge tech icon. I'm intrigued by what drew you towards history and literature, and have they been useful at all to this journey and technology that you've had so successfully. So I definitely was a humanities major and if you had asked me when I started college whether or not I'd wind up working in tech I would not, I would have definitely said no and I would not have believed you if you if you had told me

that I would be doing that later on in my career. And I love history and literature. I love looking back at what has happened, reading, hearing stories and storytelling. And I really only discovered technology when I was a senior in college. That's, I took my first computer science class as a senior in college. And that completely changed my life.

And, but what I saw in it in some ways is consistent with the history and literature, which is that I love being creative and making things and like doing art and all kinds of projects. And I saw technology as a way of extending that creativity of doing and creating products that could be used by people all over the world. And that's what I fell in love with when I started working on technology. And I do think the history and literature has been extremely useful,

especially now because we deal with a lot of issues that are not just black and white. There are a lot of ethical issues. There are a lot of people issues. And we're dealing with a lot of storytellers, particularly on YouTube, who are covering a broad range of topics. And so having a background where you have understood and spent time training to interpret different meanings of books and literature and what it means and has really helped me and combining both the technology as well as the humanities and putting that together

has been really helpful to me in my career. Was there any part of you that felt a sense of imposter syndrome or self-doubt when you were moving into that space or did you have a confidence that you'd be able to apply those skills and your passion almost pulled you in that direction? When I started the internet hadn't really come of age yet as we know it today and so a lot of people were really confused like why do you want to work in technology especially all the people that I was working with who all the people that were studying history and literature were completely confused like why are you taking computer science and I even remember one of my job you know I had no idea what I was gonna do

when I graduated from school. I literally had no idea. I graduated with no job. I had no idea where I was going. And I remember talking to a career counselor and telling them that I was thinking about working in technology and she was so confused and she kept saying like,

I don't see you as a, that kind of person because a lot of people were not working in technology. And I think the insight I had was like, was that, A, this is a really big growing field. And that it's actually going to be creative and it's going to be a lot more than just people who are coders behind a computer, like writing lots and lots of code. There were going to be all these implications for what it meant and how the technology would be used and the storytelling that went into the technology or that came out of the technology.

And so that for me, what I was really interested in. And I mean, there were definitely times where people were just really, and they're still are sometimes really confused. Like, what are you doing here? But, you know, I just really persisted, and I've loved what I do. And so if I can get back to the parts that I love,

then that helps me get through whatever is the hard time. I think that's gonna be really comforting for a lot of people to hear when they understand your journey. And now when you look back, I think it's always easy to see people have these incredible wins and successes and not recognize that they've had their own challenges or pivots or moments of uncertainty. But taking a trip down memory lane and looking into history, I understand that you lent your garage to Larry Page and Sergei Brind, the founders of Google, of course.

And I was talking about it with my team, literally two seconds before we went live, and I was sharing that with them. And I was like, there's so much history there. When you think about the things that have had such a big impact on the world, Google and YouTube, without a doubt have had colossal amounts of impact and influence on the world today and continue to do on the future,

when you gave them that space, what was honestly going through your head? Like, what was truly going through your mind at the time? People think I had a bigger plan when I gave them the space. They think there was some grand strategy and they were this amazing company and I was so lucky people would say questions like, oh, how did you get that?

Like, how did you have them rent the garage? And the reality is I just wanted the rent. I just wanted the rent payment. Um, that was my, I know that might not seem super inspirational at this moment, but the reality is I was a student. I just graduated from business school. I had student debt, but I had managed to buy a house, and it wasn't that big a house,

but the thing is Sergey and Larry were further behind me. They were living in the dorms, so they didn't have the house, and they needed a place to start their company. And this was 1998, and this time was, it was a huge boom. And so like every billboard on the freeway was like of a dot com company, there was no space anywhere. And so they, you know, they knew, I knew them beforehand as friends. And so they knew I had bought this house. And I had moved also, I still had just stopped being a graduate student. So I didn't think I

needed all this space. And so I said, okay, well, I'll rent it to you. And I worried about covering the mortgage. I might not have enough money. So I'll rent it to you. And they moved in. And it was, you know, it was actually pretty fun. That's amazing. I actually prefer that answer. That's a brilliant answer. And it's so relatable and believable. And now I think I think you're going to inspire a lot of people to let people rent their spaces just based on that story. So if you have founders come knocking at your door, everyone's going to be like, yeah, sure, you can have my space. Hoping, hoping. That's amazing. I think one of the most favorite moments in a YouTuber's

journey is getting their plaques for reaching these milestones with a letter signed by you. And of course, you initiated the proposal of acquiring YouTube back in 2006. That sounds like a much more intentional focus strategic decision than letting Larry and Sergey rent space. So tell us about what was going through your mind at the time because again, I think it's so easy to look at YouTube today and say, oh, of course it was gonna do well. And you know, but there was so many other platforms. How did you know that YouTube had this potential?

Or what did you see that was happening culturally in the world, not even in technology? What was happening in culture and consumer behavior that made you understand that YouTube was going to be something different? At the time, no one was sure what was going to happen. There were not a lot of believers. In fact, like there had actually been a really well-known article

that had been published so week before we bought YouTube that said only a moron would buy YouTube. And that was actually a headline news story that ran. And people did not understand that they didn't understand user-generated content. They didn't understand that average people can post content and have that be really successful and that other people would want to see it. And that was something that I was lucky I had some understanding of it because Google had been working and we had built a product called Google Video. And so Google Video, I had seen two different things that really led me to being sure that

YouTube had a future. The first of which was that people wanted to share their stories. So like we said, you know, upload your content here. We weren't always, we didn't guarantee that they were going to have views or revenue or any of the things that we guarantee today. And yet all these people would upload and share their videos. So there was just something very human and people wanting to share and connect, be found, be understood. And then, I think that that's reasonable. I think people generally understand that people want to be share their stories.

But what really surprised me and was less understood was that people want to see other people's stories. Right? And this was a time where all there was, like the only thing we knew was studios and highly produced content. And so suddenly you have somebody and they're filming in their bedroom, or they just upload something of them doing something funny in their backyard. And a lot of traditional media people thought that this was really low quality content, because

the content had been produced by people who were not professionals without the same type of cost or studio equipment, but yet it was really, really compelling. And so what mattered is people loved it. And we saw, we had one hit and this was the first one that really convinced me was we had these two students, they were singing in their dorm room,

they have their roommate in the background, his homework. Throughout this entire performance and it just brought a smile and a laugh to everyone's faces and we got millions of views and I realized that anyone can have a hit and as a result of that YouTube will create this new form of content and there'll be a lot of success for that going forward. Yeah, I love hearing that because I do think that it is a surprise seeing how much so many technologies that come together to make it a success to the access to making high quality video or even video from your bedroom. I mean, you know, even how that's evolved at the same time. And to see that all coming together and people today, I think, being attracted more to that authentic content, more to that relatable content, more to that person next door content is really

fascinating. I mean, you're running the most famous video sharing platform in the world. It sounds like an exciting, stressful, hectic job. I want you to walk us through what a day in your life looks like because I think when you think about YouTube, CEO, and you think about the journey you've been on since 2006, I don't quite think we know what you do every day and what you're going through every day.

So could you walk us through from the moment you wake up to the moment you go to bed, but what's happening in your day? I'm Munga Ishya Tungisha Tikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running

and pay attention, because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop! But just what I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk too far. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too.

Listen to Skyline Drive and the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. The therapy for Black Girls podcast is the destination for all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. Here, we have the conversations that help black women dig a little deeper into the most impactful relationships in our lives, those with our parents, our partners, our children,

our friends, and most importantly ourselves. We chat about things like what to do with a friendship ends, how to know when it's time to break up with your therapist, and how to end the cycle of perfectionism. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday. Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcasts on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Take good care. Not too long ago, in the heart of the Amazon Rainforest, this explorer stumbled upon something that would

change his life. I saw it and I saw, oh wow, this is a very unusual situation. It was cacao. The tree that gives us chocolate. But this cacao was unlike anything experts had seen. or tasted. I've never wanted us to have a gun fight. I mean you saw the stacks of cash in our office. Chocolate sort of forms this vortex. It sucks you in. It's like I can be the queen of wild chocolate. We're all lost. It was madness.

It was a game changer. People quit their jobs. They left their lives behind, so they could search for more of this stuff. I wanted to tell their stories, so I followed them deep into the jungle, and it wasn't always pretty. Basically, this like disgruntled guy and his family surrounded the building armed with machetes. And we've heard all sorts of things that you know, somebody got shot over this. Sometimes I think, oh, all this for a damn bar of chocolate. Listen to obsessions, wild chocolate, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. What's your favorite song? Well, first of all, I am not a super early riser. I wish I were, but I'm not. So I usually wake up at the last minute possible to still get my kids off to school. And I try to wake up, get them breakfast, everything ready. Then I need to exercise every morning.

If I don't, I'm really grumpy. I need that fresh air and exercise, stretching, just some opportunity to connect with nature and do something physical. And then I go to work, you know, with COVID and hybrid and everything, sometimes I'm working at home, sometimes I'm working in the office. And there at say my time is really focused on what I think is most important for me to get done as a CEO of YouTube. And that is a variety of different aspects. I'm going to start with, one of them is to meet with my key reports and understand what

they are all working on. And to also to review the future products that we're building and understanding where is YouTube going. So I should understand what is YouTube going to look like not today, but what it looks like a couple of years from now. And are we positioned based on what's happening in the external environment to be successful? So if I look at the future and estimate, like, this is what the future holds in two years or three years, are we set up to be successful then?

And in order to do that, I need to know a lot of times, like, well, what's broken within the company today? And what I worry about the most often is when there's something really important for us to get done, that nobody in the company is working on. Like, generally, like our core parts of our business, we have really great people and they're smart, and they know everything better than I do. They do it all the time, but there can be gaps

that companies have and those gaps can cause big issues if you don't address it. So in some level, I'm looking at like, what's broken, where are the gaps, how can I help fix it and make sure that we're set up for success in the future? And then I go home and I have dinner with my family. And I, you know, my kids tell me all the ways I'm scaring out probably. And, you know, we have dinner and put them to bed.

And I usually read, I try not to do too much email at night because I find otherwise I get really wired and I can't go to bed on time. So I like to read, have a chance to reflect on other things before I go to bed. Has that changed over time? Susan, do you think there was a point in your career where you were more focused on sending emails in the evening and having to do that, has that balance changed over time? Or is that something that has always been that way where you've been good at kind of trying to shut off at least as we all try and attempt to do that? Yeah, well, so when I first joined Google, just to really date myself, because Google,

I've been at Google now for 23 years. Like, we didn't actually have the ability to read emails at home when I first started. I know I see that was a blessing, but that we got over that pretty quick. One of the things that has helped me, and I believe it's given me some of the longevity, because tech, you can really burn out in tech. You can overdo it, work really hard and say you need a break. What has helped me in many ways is the fact of how I've balanced my work and my family. In many ways, the fact that I have always had to be home for my family has made it be that I have to have hard stops in terms of my work. And, you know, my children, when they're in a daycare, you have to be there exactly on time. And if you're not, you're charged a dollar a minute.

So there's no option to be late. You must finish at that time. And that has helped me in many ways, like, segment my life. Of, like, here's my work. And I only have, from this time to this time, you get it life of like, here's my work and I only have from this time to this time, you get it done. And then I have my family life and making sure that I try to keep those separate.

And that's actually, it's hard to do that. A lot of times people will think about work when they're at home or home when they're at work. And so being able to separate them has really helped me and tried to turn off my work when I'm at home. But yeah, it's definitely been something I've worked on and I've gotten better at over time. Yeah, no, it's made me think about,

I think I was, someone was telling me about the show the other day called, things called Severance, where it's based on this concept of whether when you're at work, your memory of home doesn't exist and there's a piece of tech that when you're at home, your memory of home doesn't exist. And there's a piece of tech that when you're at home, your memory of work doesn't exist. And, you know, it's an interesting thought to think about like, what would life be like? But it sounds like the most high performing leaders and CEOs are actually able to bring those two worlds into

one another to improve it. I mean, you mentioned in an interview that if you could describe your management style in one word, you would say it's supportive. And I thought that was really quite unique. I work with a lot of leaders. I've coached a lot of organizations, companies, and I don't often hear that word. I really believe it's quite unique. When did you decide that that was going to be your style and how does it look in reality?

Because I think we all have connotations of what the word supportive looks like. But as a CEO, I'd love to know, yeah, when did it kind of feel like, yeah, that's my style and then what does it look like in reality? Well, so I would say I definitely am a supportive CEO, but there are other things too. Probably I would, I'd like to add visionary too,

because I do think especially in tech, it's important to be one step ahead and I'm understanding what the future is and how you get the company there. So I'd like to say I'm like very supportive in helping the company get to what's the right future. And of course, our hard decisions. I mean, there are times where you make a hard decision

and that has to be it. Like, you have to, you got to make it. And if you don't, the company will suffer. So, you have to be willing to make those hard decisions. But one of the reasons I said supportive at the time, and I do believe that's an important part of running a company, is that for me, it's really important to understand what's actually going on in the company. And it's possible as CEO that everybody tells you how good everything is, that their product is great.

It's getting lots of views. It's doing all the right things. They have the right roadmap, and there are a lot of problems. And they're not necessarily going to tell you what the problems are. And so as a CEO, you need to figure out what they are. And if you are a scary person that everyone is really worried about, there are a lot less likely to tell you about what the problems are. And so I really wanted to take an approach where people are open with me, that they understand

that we can talk about what's going well, but also what's not going well. And then I will work with them to fix it. And there are a lot of things that don't go well. I acknowledge that. And I wanna actually talk with my teams about what's not going well. Where are the problems? And how do we get to a plan to fix it?

Because if you don't get that plan, if you don't acknowledge it, and you don't, then it's never gonna get fixed. And so that's one of the reasons I said supportive. Yeah, I find that refreshing. And definitely, I think the balance of maintaining leadership, but also being supportive and being able to talk about and receive feedback on what's not working requires a lot of adaptability, it requires a lot of openness as well. And so, you know, I can feel that that may be challenging

to definitely practice on a day-to-day basis. I mean, how do you communicate to someone on a day-to-day basis that you're there for them, that you're supportive, you're open, you're approachable. Like, what does that look like? Well, how do you make someone aware of that? I was really lucky. I was able to work with this person named Bill Campbell.

And he, if you look up like the coach of Silicon Valley, you'll, you'll read about Bill Campbell. And he was, I was fortunate to work with him for many years. He also was a coach to Larry Page and Sergey Brenn and, and the Google management team and also Steve Jobs. He would, he would, they were, were very close. And he would always say, it's all about the people. That that was one of his big lines is that you really have to get to know the people. And he would talk about when you have your one-on-ones, you need to take them really seriously. And you need to get to know the people first. And you need to know what's going on, what makes them tick, how to support them. And he cared, he really cared.

And like I'll actually tell you this like specific example. So I remember once we had some performance review and for a variety of reasons, it was something in this performance review that upset me. It doesn't really matter what it was, but there was something in it that upset me. And I thought it was really unfair. And I sent some emails and said I was really upset about it.

And he knew that I was upset about it. And so he said, you know, call me. I want to talk to you about it. Of course, like I wasn't calling him back. And at 11 o'clock at night, he called me at home because he was just, oh, by the way, I was leaving on vacation the next day. He called me at home because he really cared.

I knew he cared about me. And he talked to me and he said, like, I understand that wasn't fair. I'm gonna fix it for you. I don't want you to worry about it. He said, I remember he said, like, go on vacation, like hug your kids, have a great time. Don't worry about this.

And when we come back, we'll address it. And, you know, that to me, made me feel like somebody really cares about me. They, they, he went to this extra effort. He didn't have to call me at 11 o'clock at night. But he did. And so I, I, that's just a perfect example about feeling that you really cared for that person and, um, and as a result, I would go the extra mile for him. I would do whatever he needed because I knew he was there for me. I mean, that's fantastic.

And also speaks to the value of coaching, mentorship, having that guidance, which I think so many of us think we have to do it alone or that a lot of the people we look up to have just been figuring it out all for themselves. But the value of coaching, the value of having mentors in our lives is profound and can be so impactful, especially at tough times. I think a lot of the times we try and these days document how great leaders deal

with failure and how they've overcome failure. But I think something I find really fascinating is also how they deal with success. And you've had so many career-defining moments, I'm sure, and I'd love to hear about the one you're most proud of. But what I'm most interested in is how have you learned to celebrate better or has celebration or has acknowledging where you are being an important part of the journey or actually is it like, well, I don't really think about that because we're on to the next thing. So I guess that's a two-part question. Like what's been a career defining moment and where has celebration stacked in the journey

of reaching new milestones and peaks? You know, when I think about my career as a whole, it's hard to celebrate it in its entirety. That's just a reality. I've realized that people just move on. They're like, great, you did that thing, but you know, what's coming next? And I tend to focus my celebration on that people just move on. They're like, great, you did that thing, but what's coming next?

And I tend to focus my celebration on what's happening right now. What are the events that are happening today that matter for our teams? And they may be moments that crystallize that success, like, you know, a product that launches, or, you know, if we identified an issue a year ago, like, let's say we identified something on our survey, like our creators are upset about a specific, you know, issue. And then it's been, you know, we had a team working on it to fix it, and then it's been a year, and we got a new survey back that says, you know, your 20 points higher on that, that matters. Like, so I really, I want to celebrate the big successes, but also the little successes and focus on what we do now. And I worry if you spend too much time talking about like, oh, all these things that have happened and like, yes,

we went from like a garage to a big company. I mean yes, I celebrate that but I celebrate that for like a second and then have to focus on what we're dealing with today because that's what matters. And also celebrate some of the small moments that happen. What's happening today and the people who like people, it's actually really interesting. People are always asking me just whenever I ask questions about things that are just affecting their daily life, like what's happening, like office space and whether people are coming back into the office and what our COVID policy is and all these, like, little things, like, these little things really, really matter to people.

Like yesterday, we just had a really nice off-site where everyone came and, like, we got to meet each other's family and be outside, have a beautiful day, and like, it was great. I, like, I left that feeling fantastic. That's so fascinating because it sounds like the internal successes that are almost invisible to the outside world are actually sometimes more satisfying. And it's really interesting in a world where we're so used

to celebrating our successes publicly, the private successes are actually the ones that bring us the most joy. So the things that people don't know about may never hear about, may never see externally, can sometimes be the most fulfilling. I feel like that's what I'm hearing at least, or at least what I'm taking away.

I mean, there will be times where we'll do a launch and people will be well received. And we're like, yay, that's great. I'm glad away. I mean, there will be times where we'll do a launch and people will be well-received and we're like, yay, that's great. I'm glad this product is doing really well or that it's getting this kind of adoption. But those moments just don't happen that much. And the reality is most of the things that we're dealing with in that every day.

And how do we make sure that what we're doing in the every day is celebrated? And also, I don't want to pin our happiness or the happiness of the company either, just on what the external point of view is. I think it's really important for us to have an understanding, like, these are our metrics. This is what we think is important. If you disagree, like, we can have a conversation about what our internal metrics should be, or how they should be changed, or how we should measure that.

But the external world is rocky and bumpy and unpredictable, and they don't have the same set of information that we do. And so I don't want us to just be swung back and forth. Like, oh, now they love us. Now they hate us. We're happy, we're sad. You know, everyone at the company would be completely confused. Like, what's going on?

It was good, and now it's bad. And like, I have to be able to explain consistently to the company about, you know, we're going, are we doing a good job and make sure that then we celebrate when we work hard to achieve what we said, set out to achieve. Yeah, I know a lot of young people see you as an inspiration as being one of the iconic people in tech today.

And, you know, what do you think is a good reason for a young person today, especially young women as well, to pursue careers in technology? Like, what would be a good reason or intention for getting into technology that you think could inspire younger generations? I would say it's a great career for everyone in all backgrounds. And one of the things I've been really concerned about is not seeing enough diversity and not seeing enough women, but all different backgrounds, like just not seeing a lot of diversity, enough diversity overall in tech.

And if you look at change in our society, a lot of it is coming from tech. And so who are the people that are changing it? Who are the ones that are driving that? You want it to be a diverse set of people. And I think that tech has at least traditionally had an image of being a very difficult place to work, fast moving, long hours, like you have to be like coder who spends you know a hundred hours a week behind your computer. And so people who have that perception are driven away and they don't want to join technology and they don't want to join it as a field. But the reality is is that we need those diverse voices and

backgrounds to come in and to help figure out and shape what that future is. And reasons to go into it, you know, as you're asking is like, you can make a difference. Your products are used by, you know, millions of people all over the world. It's a good career. There's always gonna be demand for your skills.

And I, so I think it's a really important area for us to have more diversity. I think computer science should be taught to everyone at school. And the reason that it's not taught at school right now is basically because they're not enough resources. There's not enough computers. They're not enough computer science teachers who can teach it.

And so as a result, it's given to a smaller set of people. And they don't have, it's harder to get those skills. And then a lot of times like the introductory, you know, computer science courses, not really as introductory as it really should be. And so people join in and think it's hard. And they're like, oh, this is really hard. And they drop out. But I think it should be taught everywhere.

And the introductory class should truly be introductory. And if you did that, a lot more people would understand like, oh, this isn't a hard. I can do it. I can get jobs. I can make change. I can be part of this trend and industry and make a difference. And that would be really welcome. Yeah.

I mean, how far, obviously the tech industry's changed so much while you've been in it. How much further do you think it has to go? Like, what is that change that's needed? What are the shifts that are required to get it to where you see the future of it? And how much has it progressed during the time you've been in it and leading? Our 20s are seen as this golden decade.

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I learned something new about women from around the world and leave feeling amazed, inspired, and sometimes shocked. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, it's definitely changed a lot since I've been in it. I mean, I know that from when I started till now, it's, well, in the industry is much bigger, but it is a much more diverse industry than it is now. Then it was when I started for sure.

And I would say, I do see change across the board. Like, if you look at, you look at who's taking the intro to computer science class and you look at the percentages of how many women are graduating. If you look at most universities, one of their biggest classes now is the introductory to computer science class. And that is, in fact, a lot of schools are saying like,

oh my gosh, we have too many computer science majors. We want people to go back to study the classics and humanities. And it's true, we want people to go back to study the classics and, you know, humanities. And it's true, we need all kinds of people. So I do see it changing, but it's just not changing fast enough. They're still, like, when we look at our overall stats, they're still not enough women here. But, you know, I think it makes a difference. Like, I was thinking, like, who were my role models when I started?

And I can only remember one woman that I really looked up to when I started, like who, and I can only remember one woman that I really looked up to when I started, which was Donna Dupinski, who started Palm. And now I think if you're a young woman, there are like a lot of companies that have been started, there are a lot of women founders, and there's a whole range of tech from like hardware to fin tech, to FinTech, to BioTech, right, to consumer software. So there's many different areas and I think there are a lot more role models too. How do you find, as the CEO of YouTube, like when you're playing this role, I feel like, as you were saying, the industry is moving so fast, there's so many things constantly changing.

How have you figured out, how do you know when YouTube is changing fast enough or not fast enough? Like how do you decide whether you're iterating quickly enough or not? And what is the scale and what's the spectrum with which you rate yourself on? I mean, I often feel like we're not changing fast enough. That's like, that's actually like when I have anxiety,

that's like one of the things I have anxiety about. Like while the industry is changing so quickly and we can't always change fast enough. And that's just the reality to like the systems and the people and how we build. And so at the end of the day, it has to be a prioritization. Like what are the most important things to YouTube?

And let's put, we have to put our people there and make sure that what we do, we do that really well. And realize that we can't do everything. I mean, we're talking here right on a podcast and that's like an area where I would have like to invest, invested more. If you had asked me two or three years ago, I would have said, yeah, I know, I know this is a big area. I know this is really important. It's important to our creators, important to our users. But we only have so many people and so many resources

and we need to focus on what is important to the platform and what's core to the platform. And like we're actually doing a lot with podcasts now, which I'm excited about. And so there'll be lots of good things coming. But if you had asked me a few years ago, I would have said, yes, I see it and I understand it and I want us to get there.

But there were a lot of other things too that we need to do. And that's probably one of the hardest aspects of the job is doing that prioritization and realizing that there's some really important stuff that we're just not going to be able to get to. We can't do everything. You have to choose and make some hard decisions. Yeah, I know it's exciting, though. And I'm excited about that because obviously I believe I remember my team was sharing with me

I Stat the other day separate of this conversation, but it I don't know it exactly but it was around the idea that you know the number one Platform where podcasts are being viewed for the longest amount of time is YouTube obviously and so the fact that it's almost Yeah, the almost the fact that it's happened in an opposite way is great because fact that it's almost, yeah, the fact that it's happened in an opposite way is great because, you know, people are already using the platform in that way. I know it's been incredible for us from the video, but we always wanted a video version of the show and, you know, it's always been YouTube first and the way it's been edited and designed. And we know that that's where it's consumed. And to me, that's what's so beautiful about the platform is often you're able to then

see the stats and the data and then I guess invest accordingly and prioritize accordingly. So very excited, personally and for the rest of the podcast, the community for the advancements and the announcements that I come from that area. If there was a warning season that someone could have given you before the beginning of your career, what do you think it would have been if there was a warning, maybe just a piece of advice, but something that you would have liked

to bit a caution around, because I think when we start something, we can be highly optimistic, and then we start to learn the reality of a situation. What would have been useful? One of the things, you know, when I look at my career, like, certainly being persistent, like there are a lot of setbacks. I don't want to say like it's always been easy or everyone's always been nice and friendly and helpful.

Like, there have been a lot of hard times. But for me, it's been really important just to be persistent and to not give up and to believe. And for me, a lot of it has been just that I believe in the mission of what we're doing and providing information and access and enabling people to have jobs and share their voices and tell their stories. And when people tell me about how that's made a difference for them, that makes all the hard times worthwhile. That just makes them all melt away.

And so having the mission has helped a lot, but I certainly understanding that it's going to be hard. It's not going to be easy and you can't give up. You have to just stick with it. Is there a habit that you've developed over time, a discipline and habit, a mantra and affirmation, a practice that you feel has made life easier that you feel like if young people, if if anyone listening, not just young people, but if anyone wants to develop that would massively support their career and support their life,

has there been something that you point towards? Well for me it's been balanced. Like, I have to take time off. Like, if I'm working all the time, it's, it's not healthy. And, and I actually don't think I do good work either. Like, I want to say it's a combination of both. So, for me, I have to have my weekends off. I have to have a time where I actually just turn off my job and just completely reset. And I find that it doesn't happen right away. Like it actually takes time for that to happen. And but then when I come back to the work, I actually have a better understanding of what needs to get done and things

that seemed really important, suddenly don't seem as important two days later. And so I think having some balance is really, really important. I mean, yes, and certainly having your family time in the evenings and sleep and exercise. That's a lot of longevity. I mean, I've been in this industry for a long time

and I've done this job for a long time. And that is what has kept me going is just being able to keep that balance. I think the other thing too is when I get really frustrated with something, I just stop doing it. I mean, that's another area. And it could be a few things. Like it could be like something,

like I'm just having a really bad day, like over, got to just go to bed, do something different, not think about it. But also sometimes like when we're having a product and it's like, we'll try something multiple times and it's not working. Just we have to try different approach, just acknowledge like this, not working, let's just try something completely different and maybe bring in people who are not on that team or from different teams, different perspective and try something a whole different approach. So I think all

of that type of balance gives perspective and helps you do a better job. I'm sure that was surprise a lot of people too because often we hear the opposite but it makes so much sense that to be creative and to be effective, we need downtime, we need stillness, but it makes so much sense that to be creative and to be effective, we need downtime, we need stillness, we need space, we need space to think, space to imagine. And you shared in an interview as well that your mom has been an inspiration for you. I wanted to hear about how, you know,

the role she played in that journey for you because I think it's always interesting. I think we hear both stories, sometimes when people feel limited and restricted by their parents and sometimes supported. What was it for you that she's played such a pivotal role? My mom is, well, you know, you used to talk to her. I'm sure she would love to be on your show. My mom always has something to say. Let's start with that. And she actually wrote a book about being a parent

and she's like, likes to, you can look her up. I know I'm YouTube or Google and learn a lot about my mom. But you know, in many ways, the fact that my mom always had something to say was, like as a kid, was horrifying. Um, like, I, you know, I, she would embarrass me. She would complain. She would tell people how things weren't done the way she wanted or she would protest

or she always has, she always had an opinion. So my mom is a teacher. I will say that. My mom is an amazing teacher. She's been a teacher for 50 plus years. She literally, she literally, she retired during COVID and she went when she was 80 and she started in her 20s. So she literally is an expert teacher, but she really believes in giving people in like stating her opinion and not holding back and thinking for yourself. And there were times that as a kid, that was a really horrifying thing because

she would be embarrassing me. And you know, she also says like, look, if you're wronged and something happens to you, like you go to a place and they, you know, it's not as advertised or they charge you something different and you don't say anything, then you're actually making it harder for the next person who comes along. Like that next person is gonna also have that same negative experience and so it's your duty and responsibility to speak up

and to try to fix it. And so as a kid, that was always like worry, like what was my mom gonna say and do? And but that helped in many ways because in business you have to be willing to speak up and say what you think and not be afraid of people are criticizing you. And so in many ways I was like,

annihilated against being embarrassed as a kid because I was embarrassed so many times. Um. And, and she, I think also just taught me to think for yourself that if people are saying things that don't make any sense, you should just think for yourself and believe in yourself and believe what you think

and not just go along with what's a common thought. And she's done a really good job and she's really innovated a lot in the field of education, herself by not going along and thinking her own ways about how she got her students to think for themselves. She's a journalism teacher, so she's taught a lot about gotten a lot of students to write stories and to question and to ask her hard questions and then be willing to say it and to write it. And that has gone a long way. She has a big, a big fan club of students. That's, that's incredible. I wonder how, when you became a mom, how did that change your view about your relationship with your own mom,

but then also your relationship to work as well? Well, my kids love having, they have lots of stories about their grandmother. And, you know, I think being a mom, you know, gives you appreciation for your own mom, right? Because you realize, oh my gosh, this is so hard. And you start thinking, like, what did my mom do well? What do I want to incorporate?

And I'll say, like, what I learned from my mom was just the fact that she believed in her kids. And believing in your kids and not necessarily expecting them to fit into an established mold. Like everybody has to be the same, everyone has to do like they're, you know, the same classes and go to the same school and get the same grades, right? Like everyone is an individual. Your kids are not necessarily like you, but you still have to support them to just be whoever they are, even if that's nothing with what you are and support them. And so, like, my, I mean, my oldest kid was really into magic for a while, right?

Like, I know nothing about magic. I love magic, too. I, I, I have a lot of appreciation for magic. And actually, I've learned, I've changed in the sense where now I actually, I'm really thankful when my kids come up with some interest that I know nothing about, but they want to learn about, like, how do I get into that with them? How do I support them and go on that journey with them? But I believe I got that from my mom, which was just supporting people on who they are

and believing in them that they can accomplish, even if it's different than what the established norm is. Well, Susan, I've been so grateful to talk to you today. It's been such a joy hearing about you from you and learning more about you as a person, as a leader. And we end every on-purpose episode with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. So one word to one sentence. Susanna, you ready? These are your final five.

Okay, I'll do my best. Okay, great. All right, the first question is what is the best advice you've ever received? Not to be defensive when people criticize you. Amazing. What is the worst advice you've ever received? That you can't do something. Lots of people like to tell you like all the things you can't do and I don't think they're true. Absolutely. Question number three, what's the biggest risk you've ever taken? Probably joining Google when I was pregnant and they had no revenue and I had a house

and a mortgage and I was leaving an established job. Amazing. Question number four, what would you say has been your biggest failure on this journey? I would just like to have more free time. That's one of the things. Even though I really try to create balance, I still need even more time than I've probably have given myself. I can relate in my own way too, so I'm with you on that one. Fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Well, I would love, at least in the US, what we don't have, that is we haven't many other countries,

is for there to be paid family leave and to have early childhood education. And I've personally seen like how important that is and it's something that we don't have for a lot of working moms and I really think it would make a huge difference to be able to working families across the board. Everyone is impacted. So like really supporting the youngest are our youngest citizens, how to make sure that they have the right time and support.

So those are things I would love for us to have. That's a fantastic answer, Susan. It's been incredible talking to you, you know, often when I sit down with CEOs, if I'm honest, it can often be challenging because there's just so many barriers to what you can say and can't say and I just wanna thank you for having been so open today and been so vulnerable.

And it's just been such a beautiful conversation with a grounded and very, very open leader. And I'm very, very thankful for that. So thank you so much. Thank you. I have a question for you. Please. So from your book, I saw you offer so much wise advice across the board. And, you know, I see some of the people who may need it the most, particularly our young people and teenagers. Like, I want to know, how, like, do you offer classes?

Do you offer seminars? Do you offer camps? Like, I think there would be a really big opportunity for young people to learn some of the life lessons that you provide in your book. Well, first of all, that's very kind of you. Thank you so much. And I'd say that currently the part of my work that we've focused on up until this point has definitely been aimed at people 18 years and older.

And at this point in my life, I'm definitely starting to work with far more younger audiences and younger teens because I see the need for that. And I've always wanted to do that. I think that some of the themes that we've covered up until now are often realized at a later age and stage, whether it's passion, whether it's purpose, whether it's challenges to work and relationships.

But we are, as we speak, we're currently working on a lot more programming around those ages. So, I mean, I would love to partner with you, figure out a way to work together to do that more because that's where my heart is, too. And I too share that belief and value that you stated around really investing in our future leaders and not just saying that and talking about it, but really giving them access to those insights and ideas. So it's right there and we're right on the cusp of doing that.

Okay, good. No, I think it could be really valuable, especially the pandemic has been so hard for a lot of young people. It seems like you have a lot of really valuable tools to help people adjust with challenging situations. So, well thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much to you and your team and thank you for your time and I hope we get to hang out when you're next in LA.

I hope so too and thank you for being on YouTube. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks Susan. The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can't wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday.

Listen to the therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHort Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Take good care. Our 20s are often seen as this golden decade. Our time to be carefree, make mistakes, and figure out our lives. But what can psychology teach us about this time? I'm Gemma Speg, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s. Each week we take a deep dive into a unique aspect of our 20s, from career anxiety, mental health, heartbreak,

money and much more to explore the science behind our experiences, the psychology of your 20s hosted by me, Gemma Speg, listen now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jay Shetty, and on my podcast on purpose, I've had the honor to sit down with some of the most incredible hearts and minds on the planet. Oprah, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Hart,

Louis Hamilton, and many, many more. On this podcast, you get to hear the raw real-life stories behind their journeys and the tools they used, the books they read, and the people that made a difference in their lives so that they can make a difference in hours. Listen to on purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Join the journey soon. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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