Oscars Outsider - The Odyssey Could BREAK the All-Time Oscar Record?

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey is a genuine cultural moment — but could it become the most-nominated film in Oscar history? Dylan and Craig break down the full awards race case for The Odyssey, including whether it can beat Sinners' all-time record of 16 nominations, how the Anne Hathaway lead-vs-supporting decision could push the count to 17, and what history says about Ben-Hur's blueprint for blockbuster Oscar dominance.They also debate every major performance — Robert Pattinson vs. John Leguizamo for Best Supporting Actor, why Tom Holland is the weak link, and the one category (costume design?) where The Odyssey might shockingly miss. Plus: fall festival lineups for Venice, TIFF, and NYFF — what Paper Tiger, Wild Horse Nine, and Dune III mean for the race.Films discussed: The Odyssey, Sinners, Oppenheimer, Ben-Hur, Dune III, Digger, Paper Tiger, Cliff Booth, I Am Rocky, Bucking Faster, Prime Time, Ink. Categories: Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actress (Anne Hathaway), Best Supporting Actor (Pattinson/Leguizamo), Best Supporting Actress (Samantha Morton), Best Adapted Screenplay, Best Editing, Best Costume Design.Chapters:0:00 Intro2:00 Festival news: Venice, TIFF & NYFF13:35 The Odyssey: the film & its moment25:54 Cast & performances32:54 Oscar prospects: nominations record & category odds50:51 Dune III threat & final thoughts

Why have the Cyclops be naked, presumably because you think it would look goofy like one of those 70 Sinbad movies if he had like a loincloth on? But you don't show his dick. We saw last year sinners break the all-time nominations record by getting 16 nominations. Craig called it right now. Does The Odyssey fall short of that? I would have less of a problem if they were presenting it within its intended aspect. ratio on these wide screens and then just like shifting it to one side and putting subway surfers and the empty space on the other side.

I always pluck the cord of my microphone before I start hitting you with killer takes. That way I turn a hunt into a podcast about the awards race and Hollywood history. This is Oscar's outsider. Oops. All Odyssey Takes Edition. The gates are open. We're going to catch you with all of our great Odyssey takes. we're going to review the movie we're going to talk about its chances at the Oscars. How good

will it do? Could all-time records potentially be in play? Which categories do we think it might overperform in and which categories do we think it might disappoint in? What are some historical parallels that could help us understand the current moment of Odyssey fever? Get your shipmate's slash you to a mess because this siren song is getting underway. This is Odyssey Outsider. I'm dilemmicus. That's Craig Lipso. Craig, how you doing? I'm doing good. That was excellent. So we're starting this a little bit late because you were practicing that intro, right?

Is that what was going on? Yeah, yeah, two days late. It took a lot of time in the mirror. So we're going to hit you with all things honesty. Very shortly, we had a moratorium last time we had a show about two weeks ago. And now the movie is out. the moratari mislifted. Before we do very quickly, we should, as usual,

get some news in you. What's happened in the last week or so? So for me, I think the most important new information that we have in terms of the awards raise is that we have most of the lineups out for the fall festivals. Fall festivals are going to be kicking off in September. We know at least some, if not all of the movies

that are going to be at the New York Film Festival. We have the official lineup for the Toronto International Film Festival. And the big one is that we have the official lineup announcement for the Venice Film Festival. The Venice Film Festival is going to be getting underway on September 2nd, really the first one and the most important one. And one which can really influence the Oscars race in case you're wondering if you look at the last 10 years of Golden Lion winners, Golden Lion winners is the top prize. The Venice Film Festival, five of the past 10 Golden Lion winners have been Best Picture and nominees, and two of them have one best picture of the shape of water and nomad land. So it's definitely an important data point and an important moment for films to really kick

off their campaign heading into the all-important end of year season. Craig, have you had a chance to look at the Venice lineup? Yeah, I was taking a look at it, and it's pretty interesting. So one of the first things that I noticed was that we don't have that the Netflix, the Cliff Booth film. And then I saw that they are saying it's not going to get a festival run. So I'm wondering what that actually means for its chances. This is something that we thought might be one of the films that Netflix is really pushing this award season. And since the acquisition of Labola Negra and just the overall like stance of this film,

I feel like that has almost completely gone away. I don't think I was ever really expecting a big. Oscars push personally. If you look at the last couple movies that Fincher has made for Netflix, they pretty much just made them movies that might show up on your home page and that's kind of all the promotion that they're getting.

Yeah, I agree, but I think that the prevailing thought going into this year when Narnia was still on the slate was that that was going to be the big awards push. Narnia was going to be the big awards push. And then when that got pushed back into next year, it seemed like everyone was looking to see what would fill that void.

And Cliff Booth seemed like the obvious choice at that point. And it is worth pointing out that a lot of people do say that Brad Pitt really pushes for the studios that make his movies to present them as Oscar nominees. The fact that the curious case of Benjamin Button was an Oscar nominee and was the studio spent a lot of money making that an Oscar nominee. The explanation that's usually given for that is that that's what Brad Pitt wanted. That's what they felt they had to do to make him have. happy. And then last year, there was F1, which a lot of people saw as a similar situation that they mounted a big Oscars campaign because Brad Pitt told them to. So from that angle, maybe it's surprising that they're not doing that for Cliff Booth, because this is the character

that got Brad Pitt, his only Oscar. You could kind of picture him like telling Netflix, like, hey, you guys, if you want to stand by good graces, you've got to give an Oscars campaign, but maybe not. Yeah. There's also another Coriata film that I didn't even know, He had two films coming out this year. So I was surprised to see that. Of course, sheep in a box was not well received at all at Khan. So it'll be interesting to see if this is maybe more of a player. Yeah.

Yeah. We are going to see the premiere of Bucking Faster. The Werner Herzegg movie that Herzeg pulled out of Khan when they didn't give it an in-competition slot. And it's worth pointing out that as we mentioned earlier, that Jim Jarmes did the same thing last year. with his movie the father, mother, sister brother,

which didn't get an in competition slots. We pulled it out of Khan and premiered it instead at Venice.

And it won the golden line last year. So I don't know, that might be good news

for Bucking faster to kind of doubt that that's going to happen. No. The opening movie at Venice

is going to be Danny Boyles, Inc., which is a sort of Rupert Murdoch biopic with Guy

Pierce. Do you think that's something that we should be watching? I, don't think so. Just based on kind of what happened with the apprentice biopic, I'm not sure that there's a lot of

appetite for this. And like the appetite even around like the Sam Altman biopic, I think that even if it's like really scathing, I just feel like people aren't going to want to touch it. So I don't see it being a player this award season. What do you think? I don't know. I don't think like, yeah, I guess the Murdoch family still is a pretty powerful. So you could see that being something that interferes. The historical parallel there would be Citizen Kane, which was, you know, attacking William Randolph Hearst, who was the most powerful press baron at the time. And Hearst tried to get the movie buried and didn't succeed. But the fact that it never won best picture at the Oscars is often blamed on Hearst's campaign against it. You could

maybe see something like that happening. I don't know. Yeah, the Luke Guadadino's Sam Altman movie is an interesting case. We talked about it briefly. I didn't really have much details then, but Amazon was originally going to release it and they dropped it, presumably because they had just signed the new deal with Open AI or something. But apparently Neon, I think Neon has it now,

and they're thinking of pushing it for the Oscars from what I've read. I don't know. We'll see. That's not playing at Venice. Guadernino does have another film that is going to be premiering out of competition. there. I don't know that's kind of title. Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know how he does it.

He's like one of those Japanese directors where it's like, what do you mean? They have three movies this year. Primetime is maybe something that I'm going to be watching. That's something where Robert Pattinson plays Chris Hansen, the To Catch a Predator guy. It's got to be the fiction debut of a documentary in Lance Openheim. Robert Pattinson, speaking of people with lots of movies, man, this is a huge year for him. And we haven't even seen him in the new Dune movie yet. So, I mean, we might talk about this later.

But do you think this is the year that Pattinson gets, gets his first Oscar nomination? Could he get two Oscar nominations in one year? I mean, I think it's definitely possible. I would love to see it. I don't know what film it's going to be for. We'll dive in when we talk about Oppenheimer a bit more, I think. But, or not, yeah, you know.

I threw you off by saying Lance Oppenheim, didn't it? Yeah, you did. But yeah, I think it's definitely a possibility. I would love to see it. Yeah. Okay, a couple more notes that I'd like to cover on these festival lineups. So the Toronto International Film Festival lineup is out. I would say that in recent years, the Toronto International Film Festival has kind of become the home of more schmaltzy, corny, crowd-pleasing movies.

So maybe shouldn't be surprised that the opening film is going to be being huge. human by the director of Coda. But I think the one that that maybe interests me the most, and that feels like such a Toronto title feels like to be an obvious Fred Runner for winning the audience award at Toronto is I Play Rocky, Peter Farley's movie about the making of Rocky. Do you see that as an Oscars player? I'm not sure.

I don't really see it, to be honest. you know between this and the Anthony Bourdain biopic with Dominic Sess and also like primetime these kind of non-musical biopic with like weird subjects are I guess not weird subjects but just like not traditional biopic fodder I don't see a lot of space for them and I guess the Sam Altman one is another one I see maybe one of these films getting through. I'm not sure that I am Rocky. Although I'm interested in seeing this one

because if you listen to our podcast about favorite best picture winners, Rocky is one of my favorites. So I'm interested to see it. You don't think it has an underdog shot? Maybe we'll see. The one other thing that I wanted to note is that for the New York Film Festival,

they have announced that their opening film, is going to be Paper Tiger. James Gray's new crime drama, which is not premiering. It already premiered at Cannes. But it's a premiere at Khan, as we covered, was not super rapturous. It was a little lukewarm,

didn't generate a lot of attention. Probably the most significant headlines that generated were about, like, Adam Driver being grumpy when being asked about Lita Dunham and Scarlett Johanson not showing up and not answering James Gray's FaceTime after the movie. So not the best look for the film, but this is a big chance potentially for it to kind of relaunch its campaign.

James Gray is a New Yorker. This is a New York movie. It really feels like a home court advantage moment that he secured the opening night slot ahead of the social reckoning. It should be pointed out. The social network premiered at the New York Film Festival. And its sequel is not opened, I should say. The social network opened at the New York Film Festival. the social reckoning is not going to open it, it's going to premiere, but they're instead giving that opening slot to Paper Tiger.

Do you think that James Gray could use HomeCard Advantage to kind of reboot his award season campaign after a kind of a full start at Con? Yeah, I do not think Paper Tiger is dead in the water by any means. I think that this is a great campaign move and it'll be interesting. I mean, there's a lot of risk here because, like, we talked about when we were doing our con coverage, James Gray does not have, there's not a huge appetite for James Gray within North America in the same way there are in Europe. And he never gets Oscar domination as far as movies either. Yeah, but this being like a New York film and I could see it potentially happen. Yeah. I mean, Marty Supreme got a huge boost by having like a preview screen. at the New York Film Festival last year.

That feels like a comparable thing where like a very New York filmmaker with a very New York movie uses the New York Film Festival as kind of a launching pad. Yeah, I think there's maybe an outside shot here that paper tiger still becomes an important movie that a lot of people actually watch

and maybe get some buzz. Anything else? I'm launching here. That was bad, man. All right. Is there really? other news that you think we should cover before we get into the into the into the wine dark sea should we plunge in let's go all right so we so the odyssey has been out for for more than a week now

it's into its second week um it's making a lot of money um it's making a lot of money it's getting a lot of rave reviews as i think most people who didn't have an axe to grind assumed it would it is definitely the movie of the summer it is like moment, I think. It's not an exaggeration to say that. I can say that when I went to see The Odyssey, I was like to kind of take it a vacation day. And afterwards, I saw it early and afterwards I spent some time hanging out in a couple of terraces. And I saw like nowhere near a movie theater, by the way, but I saw two different instances of a young dude reading a paperback of the Odyssey, like clearly freshly purchased from the bookstore. So I guess that's what I mean. Would I say that this is

like not just a popular movie. It feels like a cultural moment. It feels like something that's really influencing what people are talking about, what people are reading, what people are studying, what YouTube videos they're boning up on the history subjects of. So, and for Christopher Nolan, this is really a kind of an ascending to the throne moment, I think, as well. I think this is, not to glaze it up too much, but like, Volta recently had a list of the most powerful directors in Hollywood. And it's notable that like nobody even questioned the fact. that they gave Nolan the number one spot and said it was an easy choice.

And the fact that Ryan Coogler, who's a bit of a Nolan protégé, was number two, almost kind of makes his position feel that much more solid. I think you could compare Nolan's position right now to like Steven Spielberg in 1993

or James Cabron in 1999 in terms of one director being unquestionably at the top position in the industry. I mean, the Dark Knight was the biggest movie of the year, but that was a Batman movie.

You know, that's not all on the director. Oppenheimer was a huge event, a huge movie that ended up crossing the billion dollar line. But, you know, Nolan skeptics will always point out that the Barbenheimer phenomenon was a big part of that. It didn't totally do it on its own. With the Odyssey, there's no asterisk

attached. Like, this is just this is all, all this movie making a lot of buzz. I don't know. Do you think I'm getting carried away, Craig, by calling The Odyssey like such a big deal. Yeah, I don't think that you are getting necessarily carried away. It's definitely like a movie that is in conversation with people that aren't always going to the movie theater. Like when I'm out like talking with people at social events, people are talking about this, this film.

Either their plans to go see it or they've seen it already. So I think that this is like it definitely feels like the movie of the summer. Yeah, I'm excited to to dive into it. I went and saw it on Thursday, so one of the first available screenings. And there weren't very many cyber trucks in the parking lot. So, you know, do with that what you will. Did you like the movie? Okay.

So I actually did. I was not expecting to like this. I'm not going to like, I did like the movie. I do have some issues. with it, but I was looking for it. I think overall, it did kind of, kind of kick ass, though. So, you know what? That pretty much aligns with my take.

I often think that a lot of the decisions that Nolan makes are a little drab and predictable and kind of wishy-washy. He doesn't really commit too hard to one side or another. Like he's not really doing a hard historical realism thing, which of course, a lot of people online seem to wish he was doing, you know, a lot of people are really nitpicking the costumes and stuff and be like, ah, that ship's not historically accurate.

And it sounds like those people just want like Robert Agers, the Odyssey. And that's kind of an annoying thing because it's like a fantasy story. You can do whatever you want with it. But on the other hand, Robert Eggers, the Odyssey sounds kind of hard as hell.

Like, I would love that, actually. It would be cool. And if you see like an actual recreation of what like bronze age, mycene Greek armor look like. You'd be like, okay,

that does look way cooler than what's in the movie, because the choice is, do feel a little bit in the like similar to what you see in like dune or a marvel or a star wars movie not that surprising uh on the other hand he's not even if he's not leaning into historical accuracy he's neither is he leaning into kind of fantasy wacky colors costume design sets and stuff it's a little predictable um i think it's a little um the fact that we don't actually have gods in the movie we sort of have athena but you know the twist at the end makes it seemed that she might not even be a god at all, but just a manifestation of his guild.

To adapt a Greek, an ancient Greek drama and not have the gods being seemingly being embarrassed about the gods, being embarrassed about the monsters that you give them very little screen time. That's the kind of stuff where I'm like, come on, man. Why did you even want to do it? You know, why have the Cyclops be naked, presumably because you think it would look goofy like one of those 70 Sinbad movies if you had like a loincloth on? but you don't show his dick. Like, I mean, pick a lane. Like, you'll go one way or the other.

So that kind of like sort of drabness and predictability and wishy-washy and seemingly sometimes being a little embarrassed about the material kind of annoys me. Having said that, I think the movie does absolutely slap. I think it's a great time in theaters. I think it has like super thrilling scene after thrilling scene. Very similar to Dunkirk for me. And maybe just because there's so many people running on beaches. And Dunkirk is for me, Nolan's best movie.

So that's a compliment. Yeah, I had a great time. I kind of feel like you reinvented like the 90s blockbuster from first principles. You know, we even have like a cameo by a popular rapper who has a track on the opening credits. Like that's so like 90s pop-core movie coded. And that's fun stuff. It's a fun summer movie. Especially Robert Pattinson's performance.

Hell yeah. A very 90s, sniveling villain. Yeah. It was great. It definitely, yeah, it was a highlight for me as well. Yeah. Yeah, I had a great time watching this.

I do have some issues, and I think it's going to be more fun to get into my issues than it will be to just continue to glaze it. So I do feel like shooting exclusively, like, 70 millimeter was a bit of a mistake. and maybe that's a little bit of a hot take. It made it feel a bit more digital than I would have liked it to. I mean, I saw it on a Limex screen, so it wasn't the huge IMAX screen,

but it was like the IMAX ratio or as close to it as I can get in town. And it also, I feel like that constraint of that aspect ratio and the fact that most screens, are going to have like a cropped version, I think that that didn't do it any favors. I did find like the constant like centering of subjects pretty distracting. And I think that forcing being forced to work within these two different aspect ratios within the same frame caused a real issue with like presenting scale.

And I think like if you were to see this in widescreen, I wonder if it would really, if you'd get the same kind of effect on some of the like things that are meant to show scale. I don't know. What did you think about the, about that? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I agree that the new trend

that has now reached this peak of shooting the same movie from multiple aspect ratios, like we've seen for, you know, Dune and Sinners and other movies in the past is a bit of an issue for that, that reason you pointed out, it limits what the cinematography can do in terms of composing for the frame. And I think it does end up with a lot of centering in the frame because you have no choice in a way. And that ends up to a bit more boring compositions.

And that's one reason why, you know, a lot of people still like to compare known to Kubrick and the comparison doesn't make much sense to me. And I think that's one of the most clear ways in which the comparison doesn't make sense. like Kubrick would never compose for multiple frames at the same time because he was a meticulous composer of the Misanen within the proscenium within the precise frame. Yeah. I think Nolan has a lot of talents with the camera in terms of the depth and motion, but I think his talents are more comparable to somebody like Peter Berg or Michael Bay, who is more attuned to those things like depth and motion, but not necessarily like a precise organizer of painterly images within a specific frame. And yeah, I think composing for multiple aspect ratios at the same time is a problem. The fact that people are not necessarily seeing the same movie is a bit of a problem. I think, and I think that the arguments that people will make against that take don't really make sense to me.

Like, people will say like, oh, well, there's actually no useful information in the top and the bottom of the frame. And that's why it's not a big deal if it's cut off or not. like, you know, and that's why it doesn't matter if like widescreen theaters don't actually show the whole image because that's just there to provide added depth. And scientifically, you can't even pay attention to what's happening at the top and the bottom. Like that's dumb as hell to be. Like for one thing, it's acting like it doesn't make any difference whether you're sitting near the front or the back of the cinema, which obviously affects how much you can see. It also doesn't account for the fact that your eyes can move. Like you can look at different parts of the frame if you want to.

You're not like forced to be focused just at the center. even if the cinematography maybe is trying to far as you to do that. So yeah, I think it's cool to have like an all IMAX film and it provides a certain immersion, but there's a lot of issues with that as well. And if this trend continues,

that that might have to be addressed. Like I've got no problem with like shooting in that aspect ratio. I just think that all theaters should be showing the same film. I don't agree with creating this like widescreen cut for release. Yeah. I would have less of a problem. if they were presenting it within its intended aspect ratio on these wide screens and then just like shifting it to one side and putting subway surfers and the empty space on the other side.

I just think that this idea where you have to compose for multiple, multiple frames is what I don't like, especially when scale is just such a like a big theme within the film. and the fact that some of those shots where they've got like giants and mad Damon, I think that information is lost, even if you're not scientifically able to see the entire frame, like whatever the bullshit reason is. I think that you do, you still lose the effect. Yeah.

And there is a debate I've noticed online about why widescreen theaters don't just show the proper aspect ratio with like black bars on the side. and a lot of people are saying that it's because iMacs owns the extra information at the top and the bottom of the screen when you use iMacs cameras so they don't allow it to be showed in iMacC theaters i don't know if that's true or if that's just like a rumor that is circulating but it but it almost sounds like the most

logical explanation because i can't think of why else they wouldn't do it like i said the argument that oh there's no useful information in the top and the bottom makes no sense to me like that's that's a fake argument in my eyes um but yeah and anyways any other thoughts about the actual quality of the film before we get on to uh to oscar's race stuff yeah let's uh let's do a little little rundown on performances and stuff um okay so glaze it or blaze at matt damon i hate that you framed it that way um yeah i mean i guess i'm gonna have to glaze it more than than than blaze it it's not like my favorite performance of the year but there is kind of a bit of like a stubborn child thing that that that kind of peeks through his uh he's uh he's his grizzled grief-stricken exterior. That gives it a little more character in depth to me than it otherwise would. So yeah, it's a good performance.

Yeah, I glaze it too. I mean, I like Matt Damon and he is being a little bit just Matt Damon here at times. But it worked for me. Tom Holland, glaze it or blaze it? I'm going to blaze it. I think it works okay in the movie, but it's, It's not like it's, it's not an impressive performance. It feels like it could be a TV show.

You know, it's like a fine performance at a TV show. It is very basic. This was one of the most distracting parts of the movie for me was Tom Holland. I thought that is performance was really weak. And I, yeah, it was distracting. So, so blaze it. And Hathaway. Glaze the fuck out of it.

Hell yeah. Hathaway rules. Okay, let's go. Yeah, same. Zendaya. I got to blaze it, man. I got to. I don't think Zendaya is good at this.

I like Zendaya as like a star. Like in the right movies, she works super well. You always see her acting, though. Like she's never like completely just disappearing into a role. And so it depends on how she's cast like in Challenger's. I thought she was great because the fact that you can kind of see her acting works for the character.

But in her basically cameo appearance as Athena, for one thing, it's almost identical to her basically cameo appearance in the first Dune movie, which is the sense that they basically stitch in a few like perfume ads. And I was not impressed with the performance. I didn't think it that it jived well with the material on it. So I didn't think that her performance was terrible. It's definitely not the standout here. But I like the way that she was used.

And I felt like having her kind of like blow in with the wind and blow out, there was like a real, uh, ephemeral use of her. And so I, I actually liked it here. So I'm, I'm going to glaze it. Uh, RP. Pattinson. Yeah. Ah, we already covered it. Best performance in the movie. Yeah, totally. Okay. Uh, Le Piedem, Nuongo. I'm, I'm, I'm going to glaze that. I, I think she's got a lot of screen presence. I think she's, uh, she's a real movie star. Uh, I mean, she has a very small role in this. Two very small roles. Uh, I should say. Yeah. She's playing clay, uh, Clayton Nestra. Uh, as well as playing Helen, depending on the seeds. But her moments with John Bernthal, brief though they are.

I thought they worked well. Yeah, I agree. Charlize Theron. Yeah, I glaze it. It feels like an obvious casting choice for me in terms of like that's what Nolan wanted for that for his version of Calypso. And she slots right in. Okay, I am going to blaze this. I felt that she was like pretty wooden.

and I just like it felt really out of place. So I was not a fan. Samantha Morton. The performance I have to glaze it. Nolan's version of Circe, I think is a mistake. I think reimagining her as like an aging hippie herodin who turns men into pigs, even though they haven't done anything,

but accuses them of being pigs the whole time. I think that's something that he probably felt was really feminist but comes off as anti-feminist to me. Like it comes off as like a very nasty caricature of like a man-hating woman. So I really think that's a mistake. And another example of Nolan making such a sexless movie too, which is one of his trademarks that, you know, in the Odyssey, in the text, Cersie and Odysseus are lovers.

And Odysseus is so into her that his crew is basically like, please make us be people and bring us back on the ship. And he's like, no, I'm too busy big in this hot witch. I think that going that direction. Well, it's a good example of him using his imagination and creating something new that's totally different from the text, which he should be doing is a bad choice for me. And I did not. I thought that was a bad scene.

Even though the horror stuff was really cool, actually. That's another example of him using his imagination to create like a cool horror scene with like the transformations and the physicality of that. But to get back on track, the actual performance by Samantha Morton. Yeah, she's really good. Okay, I think it's a great scene. I'm going to do a light glaze on this.

I thought that she was good. I didn't think that she was like, she didn't blow me away or anything like that, though. You're not going to give her the only standing ovation for a cast screening since Heath Ledger? Maybe that just brought up my expectations so much. But I did think it was a great scene. Like you said, the idea of treating this as horror scene, I thought was a really great decision, a really inspiring choice by,

him and one of the things that I thought had a lot of um you know a lot of personality had added a lot of personality which I don't think that like I don't have the way associate yeah well yeah I I think that it had the you know this kind of monolithic Chris Nolan feel which it like I said it worked for me but um this added a lot of personality to the film that I don't agree with that films otherwise have so I really liked that scene um Okay, Elliot Page. Yeah, yeah, he's good. He's good.

Again, like, it's like some of these performances we've talked about. It's basically a cameo. It doesn't have too much. But when they're in the Hades scene, which, for one thing, the Hades scene is kind of like drab and, like, not too much as being done with a visual language. And yet it sort of works as like a theater production where they just like dump a bunch of coal on stage and make it kind of happen very simply. In the Hades scene, I thought Elliot Page as Sighton was pretty effective.

that moment. Yeah, I agree. I think for that scene alone, it was a great performance. Yeah, that's all I had to go through. Oh, Travis Scott maybe. I don't know. I mean, he has like three lines. Yeah. But I guess the track of the end credits was kind of cool. Yeah. All right. Yeah. It's no like iced tea deep blue sea or, you know, it's not in the top tier like that, but, but it's fine. Ice Cube. Sorry. We're missing. We're missing one of my favorite performances. John Lucasamo. Oh, yeah. John Leguizamo is awesome. Yeah. I'll use the hell of

that. Yeah. All right. And if you want to hear Mike, more complete thoughts, I've got an article up on substack.

So you look, you out there listening. If you look for Dylan Ferguson on substack, you can read my article and get some more of my takes on the movie. But why don't we talk

about it as an Oscars contender since that's what we do here on the show. So obviously it's going to be an Oscars contender. Nobody is, I think, stupid enough to deny that.

The question that's related to, to what degree, will it be one of many films or will it be a clear frontrunner? We saw last year sinners break the all-time nominations record by getting 16 nominations. Craig called it right now. Does the Odyssey fall short of that? Could it tie that? Could it break that? So Variety has it at 14, I think is what they are projecting. And that seems.

That seems reasonable. I think it hits, I think it hits 14. I could see it maybe doing 16, though. Like, I mean, I like this so much better than I liked Oppenheimer. So I feel like there's more showiness to this film as well. Like it's more of a like in your face movie.

There's a lot more like production design or production design is maybe a bad example. So Oppenheimer had it too. But like it's just got more scale and it's a more. movie, movie than Oppenheimer, which was more talky. So I do think that it has a potential higher ceiling than Oppenheimer. So sinners hit 16 last year by basically qualifying for every eligible category, with the exception of best actress. They didn't run Haley Steinfield as Bexas best actress. So they basically didn't have the best actress contender, but hit every other eligible category. I don't think there's a single category that Sinner,

hit last year that you would say, that I would say, oh, Odyssey's not getting that. No way. I'm not saying it's necessarily getting all those, but it's conceivable that Odyssey hits every one of those categories and hits best actress, because they might run Ann Hathaway's best actress, and she could get a nomination for that. There is a path. I'm saying that the Odyssey gets to 17, gets to the new record. Yeah, I definitely see that. I see that happening. I could. I could see it. Yeah. Okay.

So wins. Let me do a little quick historical parallel. I feel like the most obvious historical parallel is with Ben Hur from 1959. And now we're talking about this, the 60th Oscars. Ben Hur was the most expensive movie ever made at the time. And was really a Hail Mary Pass to save MGM studios at a time when not only MGM, but all the major studios were feeling a lot of pressure. from television that was causing them to kind of rethink how they were distributing movies,

the kind of movies they're putting out. In some ways, comparable. A lot of people have made the comparison to, like, recent years in Hollywood where there's a lot of pressure from streaming on movies. For Ben Hur, which was an adaptation of a book from the 1880s, as well as a sort of remake of a popular 1920s movie, they tapped the director William Weiler, who was a who was, who was a very big director at the time who'd already won best picture and best director twice for Mrs. Miniver in the best years of our lives to handle the movie with a fancy new film format.

Wasn't actually cinemascope the use for Ben Hur. It was at MGM 65, MGM-65, I think they called it, which is essentially the same thing as ultra-panavision. It is a 65-millimeter format with a super wide aspect ratio. It's basically three to one. So they used this, they heavily promoted the movie as having this, you know, a new type of film with a new Aspect ratio. And it being just a huge historical drama. Ben Hur would win 11 Oscars, which smashed the previous record of nine.

It was nominated in 12 categories, which was about as much as it could have been, I think. The only one that it did not win for out of the 12 was best screenplay. probably did not win that only because there was a very public feud over the authorship of the screenplay, which is one of the most contested screenplays in Hollywood history, maybe only challenged by Citizen Kane in terms of how many people have poured over and analyzed and try to figure out who wrote what. So probably because of those extenuating circumstances, they missed on winning all 12 of the nominations. 11 wins at the Oscars remains the record. It's been tied twice by Titanic and Lord of the Rings the Fellowship of the King.

So I've asked you about the 16 nominations record. Craig, do you think that there's any possibility that the Odyssey ties or breaks the 11 wins record? It's too soon to call, but I would say no. I think that there is going to be a huge push behind Deere, whether it's good or not, I think is going to be a big factor. And also Wild Horse 9 has not really been seen yet. And I think that this is still an early release. Like I think that I feel like it coming out within the summer,

it needs to sustain momentum for a really long time. I think it's definitely possible. But that is a challenge that films that are coming out within the normal window for contenders are not going to have. And we've got a later release for Dune this year. it's the last of the trilogy, which it could be seen by Academy Voters as, you know, let's give it some flowers here.

So I think that it's going to have a tough road to get the 11, 11 wins, but you never know. Yeah, I mean, obviously it's way too early to be making those predictions, but that's never stopped us before on this show. But if ever there was a movie where I feel like you could potentially, make such a bold prediction this far in advance, like eight months in advance or whatever the

hell it is. I'm bad at math. This would be that movie. I can see that path. And I think there hasn't been enough critical pushback, which isn't to say that all the critics love it. There are definitely some critics who do not like it at all or are at least like kind of lukewarm and skeptical of it. But there hasn't been that kind of resistance, I don't think, that would put any breaks on what it is what it could accomplish. And it's all going to come down really to which other movie can develop a ton of momentum because the ball is in every other film's court. You mentioned Wild Horse Nine, which that's going to be preparing at Venice, which we didn't mention. But yeah, you know, it's all going to be a question. We're not going to know

until at least September. Which, which movie is going to be the challenger that will emerge, which movie are that are all the Nolan skeptics going to line up behind and say this is our champion, this is the one that we're going to push? Is it going to be a rival spectacle like Dune 3 or is there going to be a big movement to try to rally behind something smaller and more, you know, maybe something set in the present day that's character-based? Yeah, I think that Dune is the biggest possible bump in the road for Odyssey hitting any sort of awards record.

just by way of either there being a lot of momentum behind it being the last one or it being a vote splitting because there's a lot of shared cast there. There's a lot of shared categories in terms of craft categories. Yeah, the scale of the film. I think that it's the biggest potential wrinkle. Hmm. Okay. I want to circle back to Anne Hathaway because I just mentioned that the path. to the Odyssey breaking the nominations record

would require Anne Hathaway getting a nomination for Best Actress. Basically, it can't happen without that, plus everything else, leading up at the same time. The question about Hathaway, and we both agree that the performance is good, is do they run her in supporting or lead?

The role definitely feels like more of a supporting role, but of course, that's never stopped them before. And I think this is a very interesting decision to make here, because I think one battle after another provides maybe a cautionary tale from last year in the sense that there's probably going to be a lot of people who are of the opinion that they shouldn't run on Anne Hathaway supporting because they're going to run Samantha Morden as supporting. And they don't want them to split the best supporting. So the idea would be to leave the category to Samantha Morton by putting Anne Hathaway in actress. But that's what one battle tried to do last year with Chase Infinity. They tried to leave supporting to Tiana Taylor by running Chase Infinity as lead actress.

And of course, Chase Infinity ended up missing the nomination for lead actress. Plus, Tiana Taylor didn't win supporting anyways. So do you think that may be universal and the awards campaign is taking that example to heart? And they're going to just run Hathaway as supporting anyways, even if it does put her in direct competition. with Samantha Morton. I think you're right that the risk is real, but I feel like they are going to risk it. I mean, it feels like the momentum right now is at least behind Samantha Morton as the standout supporting actress from this and that there's a lot of love for Anne Hathaway. And people are thinking of it as more of a lead performance, I feel like, or at least a more lead performance within

the context of an awards race. So I think that they're still going to run her as elite actress. Okay. All right. So what I'd like to do is I'd like us to each pick a category where we think the Odyssey could surprise and overperform and another category where we think it could disappoint and underperform and miss a nomination altogether. Let's start with surprises.

What do you think we could see as a surprise nomination or a surprise win, approach it however you want? Yeah. That's a good question because right now, I don't know that anything would really surprise me. Yeah. Like that anything, you know, it could appear in pretty much any category, except for like best documentary. That would surprise me. So I don't really have a pick as to what could surprise because it feels like it could be a player in all of these categories.

In terms of where it could potentially miss. How about a performance, a performance that you think. people might be sleeping on its Oscar nomination potential. So I think that people are maybe sleeping on, because I've heard people talking about Robert Pattinson. And I think that the prevailing thought is that John Likwazamo has the best shot for best supporting, which is a great, like a great performance. But to me, the one that I remembered, and we talked about first was was Pattinson.

and, you know, we almost forgot to talk about Liguizamo, and that's not to say that he wasn't fantastic in it, because he truly was. But I could see maybe a surprise being Robert Pattinson and getting in supporting and Likazamo missing. You know what? I was going to go to complete opposite with that. I was thinking that Robert Pattinson getting supporting actor

is the obvious choice here. So I was going to say that John Legazamo getting the best supporting actor nomination instead would be the surprise. But I don't know. what the consensus is. But to me, it makes sense that people see this as Patinson finally. He's never been nominated before, which is, it feels kind of surprising. Not really because his career is still like, it's only been a few years that he's been

that much, kind of a major movie star, I guess, rather than a teen hard, hard rob or, or like, somebody just doing him, the occasional weird movie. And he's in, he's in so much stuff lately, as he said. and always turn into great performances. So for me, it felt like it made more, it would make more sense that people, and people do really like that performance. We're not the only ones talking about how much Patinson is great in the film.

That was the obvious best supporting actor nomination for me. I was going to say that Legu Zamo could be more of the surprise because I could see it being kind of like Delroy Lindo and Sinners last year. The moment where people were like, oh, you know, that guy's been in so much stuff over the years. But we've never really kind of thought of him as like an Oscar nominated actor as in that kind of position. And it's like, you know what? Maybe now that he's getting old and he's, he's showing up with this like killer bit part in a big movie.

It's time we gave this guy a nomination. You know, that's kind of the path I saw for Leggazabo. But maybe that's an obvious one after all. But, you know, I totally agree with you. It's hard to pick something that feels like a surprise because it feels like anybody in anything could be nominated for this movie right now. Yeah. So, yeah, you hit me with a potential disappointment.

Where do you think the Odyssey could miss? So there's two places that I think it could potentially miss that people might not see coming. One, maybe not hugely surprising would be best adapted screenplay. I could see this potentially missing here just for whatever reason, if there's not goodwill around some of the choices that he made during the adaptation. I think that is like unlikely to happen, but I think it's possible. The other place that I wouldn't mind seeing it miss is editing.

I think that there was some issues, I think, like with, like it was a well-paced movie. And I think that like Oppenheimer again was also a well-paced movie. But I think that some of the decisions between when to, cut between Odysseus' journey and Telemachus' journey were a little bit arbitrary, and so I think that it's possible that it potentially misses, although I feel like that is a bit. I'm, I like Jennifer Lim's editing here like I did for, for Oppenheimer. I think often in the scenes where they're like running down the beach and stuff, that there's a great propulsive rhythm to the editing, though I think there are some moments where I was kind of like, eh, that's, that,

that maybe could have been better. One that stands out for me is the moment where the Silla monster is like eating the people on the ship, which is another moment that I think is little to wishy-washy on Nolan's part where he barely lets you even see what the monster looks like. But just because we've been told clearly in advance, six people will die. And I feel like they cut that together in such a way where it looks like nine or ten people die and that's maybe a small quibble but I'm like I feel like they could have cut that more clearly so that we notice the six people die. Yeah, watch the gun unloading. Count the shots. Yeah, there you go. That would be a great bit actually if Silla just shows up with a six shooter and it's like

I only got six bullets. That's why at least six you're going to die. Yeah, but I would be I'd be shocked by either of those missing, of course. But let me say that one where I could see it missing is costume design. I feel like it being a huge historical epic, you assume it's going to get a costume design nomination and maybe it will. It probably will. But how many people have you actually heard saying like, oh, wow, I love the costumes in the Odyssey, you know?

Like I get that those craft nominations usually just come down to like these events that the studios put on to Wu, Oscars voter is where they invite them into a space where they're like, this is how the costumes were made. Isn't that impressive? Remembered to vote for us. But who actually likes? I feel like nobody is satisfied with the costumes.

Either they don't care or they're like, well, this is not at all historically accurate. Or they're like, like me where it's like this just kind of looks like what you would see in a Marvel movie. Like it just, it feels like predictable. Hollywood pseudo- sci-fi kind of patterns

and doesn't feel creative or doesn't feel some weird fragment of the past that is alien to us. It feels too familiar and too unsurprising to me. And I don't know who out here is

raving about the costume design. And I think considering that we might see some slightly non-traditional movies nominated for costume design. The Devil Wears Prada, too, could be one that gets in there just because it's a movie about costume design. I think I Love Boosters could be a surprise inclusion in maybe not that's much of a surprise in costume design because that's another movie that's like in the fashion world and has a lot

of like really exciting and weird costumes. There could be enough of these kind of surprise players that only get the one nomination, that only are nominated for costume design, that there isn't really enough room for the Odyssey to get the token nomination that nobody's really that enthusiastic about giving them. Yeah, I could see it happening. All right. Any other thoughts about the Odyssey's Oscar odds? Do you really think that Digger is going to challenge this?

Because I don't know, I think that I feel like, look, so our last episode, we thought we reacted to the Digger trailer and some people got mad at us because we were both like, I don't know, this looks like it might suck. But I still feel like if you're a Matt Digger. Damon fan. You were probably watching that trailer the way like Trump fans were watching the last Biden debate. You know, like, oh my God, he's cooked. He's cooked. This guy's supposed to win. He's not winning. Like, I think that that's one movie that we were talking about as maybe the biggest competition that I'll reiterate it. It doesn't feel like as much of a serious competition as it did before I saw the trailer.

It is feeling more and more like it is going to have a very similar trajectory to Marty Supreme and just not performing as well as people maybe thought it was going to go going into award season. So yeah, I don't know. I think it's possible that it is just like a bad trailer and maybe it works. And maybe it's going to find an audience that is just. not us. I think that that's possible too, but you never know. Like this could be similar to everything everywhere all at once or something like that too.

I think that's entirely possible. But it also could be similar to like don't look up where like it got the the best picture nomination, but it ended up just kind of sneaking in as an afterthought because well it had fans and most people were kind of like this satire is kind of dumb and not for me. Yeah. yeah all right um any other thoughts before we wrap things up Craig no i think we uh we about covered it yeah i i i mean this is this is the one to beat

this is the the movie to beat this year i think um we'll see there's still a lot of time left but yeah but i think any any nolan or odyssey haters who were looking for evidence in the first week of its release that it wasn't going to be as big of a deal as a lot of people thought I think you're going to have to keep looking because I don't think we see much of it much indication that this is a train that's going to slow down based on early returns. Yeah, for sure. All right.

Well, thanks for listening. Don't forget to like and subscribe if you're into that kind of kinky stuff. And let us know in the comments what we're right or wrong about. My name is Dylan Ferguson. And like I mentioned, I do write about movies sometimes on substack. It's free. just look for my name, D-Y L-A-N-Ferguson. I do have a full article on The Odyssey Up now.

I might have something up pretty soon about backrooms and Blue Heron. So look for that. If you're into it, Craig, Midwinter, thanks for doing another one of these things with media. Any final thoughts for our listeners? No, just hit that like or subscribe button on whatever platform you're on. Nice. All right, we're going to sail off here.

We'll catch you next time on Oscar's Outsider.