Our Ancestors Were Messy - Feature: The Lonesome Hearts Column with NPR’s Code Switch (plus an announcement!)

Episode Date: September 3, 2025

Was dating any easier in the past? Nichole Hill joins Gene Demby and B.A. Parker, hosts of NPR's Code Switch, to put this question to the test by traveling back in time to 1937, using archival persona...l ads from the Washington Afro-American newspaper. Together, the trio gets a small taste of what it was like for Black folks to date almost a century ago. Turns out, the ancestors were messy, too!Support this independent production and access bonus content at https://ourancestorsweremessy.supercast.comStay in touch at ouranestorsweremessy@gmail.comFollow the show on Instagram at @ourancestorsweremessyFollow the show on TikTok at @ourancestorsweremessyLearn more about the show at https://ourancestorsweremessy.comListen on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@OurAncestorsWereMessy 

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi, it's Nicole Hill, host and creator of our ancestors were messy. Here with two updates. Update number one. I'll just get right to it. Season two is in the works. You told your friends about the show. They listened and left comments and reviews and sent so many encouraging emails and DMs. A lot of them telling me what kind of black they are, which I think is very funny.
Starting point is 00:00:27 And they and you joined the household. Over the summer, this community of donors just grew and grew, and now I have so much more help covering the cost of production and research and all these archival subscriptions that I have to have now. We're still an indie production. It's still lean and mean after our day jobs we grind type beat, you know, but thanks to the day ones and the new members, I can say that I will be back with another season of Our Ancestors Were Messy in 2026. If you would like to join the household and support this independent production and access directors commentary for episodes, bonus episodes, even if you're interested in those, you can go to our AncestersWemessy.com. The link is also in the show notes.
Starting point is 00:01:15 And for updates and information about the show, you can follow our Ancesters Were Messy on Instagram. All right, update number two. I am going to put out a couple episodes before I release season two starting. right now. This is one I did back in 2024 with the team at NPR's Code Switch. The show's host, Gene Demby and Bea Parker, who are amazing, invited me on to talk about the Black Press and their society and gossip coverage. And I asked if I could just like real quick, like in a casual way, take them through a 1937 singles column and see if Gene and I could find Parker a date, you know, normal interview stuff. And they say,
Starting point is 00:01:58 said they were down, so that's what we did. And that's what you'll hear. You will also hear this version of me that had spent a couple years pitching our ancestors were messy to studios and being rejected because the whole like black history and comedy and sound design. It's a tough cell. So the Nicole that you're going to hear, she's really excited that anybody cares about this topic, but she is a little deflated and she has no idea that as she speaks, She's already been accepted into the Tribeca Festival. You can hear all about that journey on Minnesota 4. But for now, I hope you enjoy this episode in our talk
Starting point is 00:02:35 and can appreciate the fact that there is nothing new under the sun. More soon. Her name is Nicole Hill and... I am a storyteller. I primarily tell stories in audio. Nicole tells stories about everyday, regular, regular, black and brown folks who are looking for belonging, people trying to make sense of their places in the world.
Starting point is 00:02:59 She does that on her show, The Secret Adventures of Black People, and most recently, she did that for Tracy Ellis Ross's series. I Am America. And Nicole loves love. I grew up in a family of women who love pride and prejudice. We love, like, old black and white movies from the 30s, from the 40s, I love it.
Starting point is 00:03:21 She said, come Christmas time. It's Hallmark Movies, period. I want to see all. all the Christmas tree farmers, get all the big city women to leave their high pressure job and come help them raise their child. I don't care. I'm a feminist. I know it's backwards.
Starting point is 00:03:36 It doesn't matter to me. But as much as she loved those movies, she noticed that there were hardly ever any black folks in them. So at a certain point, she started looking for distinctly black love stories. And what she found was a treasure trove, thousands upon thousands of these archival black newspapers. And they were filled with personal ads. from black people trying to find love, and those papers went all the way back to the 1890s. And Nicole very graciously agreed to share with us
Starting point is 00:04:04 some of what she learned from reading hundreds and hundreds of articles from these old newspapers about what black love looked like in the past and what that can teach us about how we should understand our present. And she got into all of that by asking us a very intriguing question. What's the oldest love story? you know. I mean, the oldest love story I know
Starting point is 00:04:29 is probably my grandparents because they, think of the 1930s in North Carolina, they met as teenagers in a potato field. So, romantic.
Starting point is 00:04:42 Sultry. Really hot. It's probably literally sultry. They're tired. Your eyes meet across the, what does a potato field look like? I just imagine them both with like a big sacks
Starting point is 00:04:54 and just putting potatoes in them and then look at it. at each other from across the field. Their eyes meet. Which grandparent do you think made the first move? Oh, my grandpa, for sure. Do you say something about her, like, her bushel or something like that? Like, damn, Ma.
Starting point is 00:05:09 Why? I'm not up on the... It's like hearing my grandpa Roy right now. Wait, Gene, what's yours? So, the most important formative love story for me involves fictional Hillman University. Or was it home in college? I'm talking about a different world, John.
Starting point is 00:05:27 I'm talking about a different world. Dwayne Wayne and Whitley Gilbert having this on again, off again thing. And so, Whitley Gilbert was to marry this dude who's running for Senate. His name is Byron. Get her the point. Anyway, they're getting married. This really dramatic wedding. And Dwayne interrupts the wedding.
Starting point is 00:05:46 And he's like, baby, please. Baby, please. Please. I do. Please, baby, please, baby. Please, baby, please. He breaks up their wedding. They run off together.
Starting point is 00:05:59 I guess the idea is they're supposed to live happily after. But obviously that's ridiculous now. As a grown up, as a grown up who has done some healing, no. But as a 10 or 11-year-old, yes, yes, absolutely. So two very different kinds of love stories. But Nicole, you've been reading about hundreds of different kinds of love stories in your research going through old. black newspapers. Can you talk about some of what you've learned? So one of my favorite papers that I
Starting point is 00:06:33 found is the Washington Afro-American, which is a subsidiary of the Baltimore Afro-American, which still exists today. Yes, it does. What I really love about it is, of course, they're covering all the national and international news headlines, all the important things. But the thing that's unique about them is, you know, all the black papers around the country, primarily the Chicago Defender and the Pittsburgh Courier are really focused on the fight, on helping black people to gain their independence, to organize politically and socially and fight for justice. But people are people. And so, you know, sometimes to get people to drink their medicine, you want to give them
Starting point is 00:07:16 a little bit of sugar. And so what the papers would do is they would publish gossip, they would publish love poems, they would publish little things that the public might like, you know, when they're tired of reading about the struggle. Now, papers like The Defender and the Courier were hesitant to do those things. The Washington Afro-American, they were like, let's go. Give us all the drama. Give us all the gossip.
Starting point is 00:07:42 We will run this right after we do, you know, your important stuff and go vote, do all of that, but then also flip to the back page and find out who's getting divorced. Comfort of the drama The salacious to all the tea And stay for the... Breakdown of the New Deal Exactly right Essentially, these newspapers
Starting point is 00:08:06 were like Instagram updates Back in the day And they're talking about love, love, love. We're talking love poems, love scandals, advice on how to find love, advice on how to get out of love, and people searching for it. I need that now.
Starting point is 00:08:23 What did a thirst trap look like in 1930s? I'm curious. Gee! Okay, so this was, no, they had them. They had them. Don't even worry about it. They were there. Only ever women, though.
Starting point is 00:08:35 Of course. So it's a lot of bathing suit picks. Just women at the beach or a beauty contest. Well, this was the thirst. This is how they were trying to lay traps for women back in the day. It was a lot of like, girl, I got a job. The end. You know what?
Starting point is 00:08:52 You know what? Sometimes that still works now. So when I'm reading these papers, what was really interesting to me is, you know, we talk so much about how dating is really hard now. Our parents give us advice on you should do this. It's like you don't understand the context in which we're living in. But I'm reading these papers and I'm seeing like, you know what? If people in 1937 are talking to their parents, their parents were the first generation of people to ever be born free in America. they're not having a good time.
Starting point is 00:09:22 Not everybody. I don't want to paint a broad brush, but so many, the overwhelming majority, are just figuring out how to be free in America. And their love stories are coming during the tail end of this kind of Victorian era. Like, we're going to get together for economics because it's socially acceptable,
Starting point is 00:09:40 you know, kind of like a more rigid form of love. And then their grandparents were enslaved. And their love stories, they're hard to even know. if they shared them at all. And so what they would have imagined for themselves when it came to love may have been pretty limited.
Starting point is 00:09:58 But by 1937, black people are in the midst of the Great Migration. Cities are urbanizing. The 20s have happened. And so there's been this introduction of companion at love. This idea that you shouldn't get married because of some, like, stodgy, religious. I mean, of course that still exists, but we're introducing this idea of,
Starting point is 00:10:21 you should find a person who sets your soul on fire, who makes you feel complete and whole, and you should run off with them. You should be with them forever. You should marry for love. A word. This is a new concept, exactly I know, right? But it's new, and what it means is
Starting point is 00:10:39 we're no longer kind of looking over at whoever the next door neighbor and just considering them. We're maybe moving to a new city and looking out at everybody. and wanting to go on dates and see how we feel. Are we vibing? Do I feel connected?
Starting point is 00:10:56 Or am I bored? But tell us about the social and political life back then. What was going on? Okay. So it's 1937. That's the year we're going to focus it on. Life expectancy for men. It's about 58 years for women, 62.
Starting point is 00:11:10 So it's like you got to get in there and do it. You got to live your life right now. Not a lot of time. Absolutely. FDR is that. the president, black people have voted in mass for him. And we've actually been voting Democrat for the past 10 years after having left the Republican Party. Or I guess you could say they left us. Another way we're breaking from our parents at the time, right?
Starting point is 00:11:32 Mm-hmm. That's exactly right. Outside of politics, I'm going to tell you about pop culture. I'm going to tell you what people are getting into for fun. Okay. Okay. Okay. So 1937, there's this new thing that was introduced at the World Fair. It is called television. Okay. People are saying it's going to be huge. The most famous person in America is probably Shirley Temple. Right on. The biggest book, The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien, that just came out. Wow.
Starting point is 00:11:57 Your big pop stars, the top of the charts, Billy Holiday and Duke Ellington. Taste. Exactly. We're living in that time. And there's a really, really popular dance. It's called The Big Apple Dance, White People Have Stolen It from Black People. Same as it ever was. It's the same.
Starting point is 00:12:15 And then if you're living in the cities, you are going out. Now, that is what it is about. It is about hanging out with your friends, hanging out at church, hanging out with colleagues, having fun. It's this idea that you could go to cities in the north that were still segregated but had black communities, you know, like a city like D.C., let's say, which has the highest concentration of black people in the nation. You have Howard University, and Howard University is the capstone of Negro education in America. So all these people, the doctors and the lawyers and the great thinkers of that day are going to Howard, and then they're settling all around U Street, which they called Black Broadway at that time. And so you get there and you're seeing 200 black-owned shops and businesses.
Starting point is 00:13:03 I think it would be kind of fun to see if maybe Gene and Parker, or maybe one are you, both of you, I don't know your situation, but to see if you could find somebody that you would maybe write to in 1937 to go on another date with. Never make that sound again, Gene. I'm off the market. I am a perpetually single black woman in America who is looking for love in 1937. I feel like I would crush it in 1937. I feel like I would do great. Are you kidding me?
Starting point is 00:13:42 with my skill sets. Okay, what are your skill sets? I love this attitude. I can't cook. I can't cook. I can kind of clean, but I also have a rumba. Can you like so? I can darn, like socks and stuff.
Starting point is 00:14:03 That's helpful. That's helpful. But like if you need like a dissertation on Titus and Johnicus or you want to know about Vincent Minnelli's film techniques when he made Hallelujah. I'm that girl. And I'm here, and I'm sure there's a nice, sensible black man at that time who would love to hear these things while I spent his money. Okay, and what kind of a man is Parker looking for both today and 1937? Or if they're different.
Starting point is 00:14:41 Well, present day, I find, you know, just tall, big dudes who cry a lot and listen to the speed metal. But if you go back in time, like, you know, I would love a nice farmer. Just a kind man. Funny. He could be taller than me. He doesn't have to be. I know I'm kind of tall. Likes art.
Starting point is 00:15:09 It doesn't have to understand it. but at least enjoys it. Just like a nice partner. Nice. And, you know, there you go, that's all a one. Nice is so nebulous. That's not so much to ask, is it? Nice.
Starting point is 00:15:24 Non-misogynistic for that time. Okay. He's like, oh. Adjusted for the time. Adjusted for the time. Okay. Okay. Well?
Starting point is 00:15:33 I'm going to introduce you to the Lonesome Hearts column, which is essentially, these are the apps of 1937. Hi, Doug. It's on page 18 of your local paper in D.C., the Washington Afro-American. Okay. And the editor is a man named Albertine Ash. Albertine.
Starting point is 00:15:51 It sounds like a chemical. Asperteen. Vagely cancerous, vaguely, carcinogenic. Okay. So he runs this column. He's been running it for years, and he's got some specific instructions. Okay. This is what Albert said.
Starting point is 00:16:04 He said this column is for sincere, lonely hearts. Please do not write flowery language and fictitious names. Lonely Hearts are not to be played with. All right now. All right, Mr. Ash. I feel like that's definitely like a Motown lyric. I think it's a good idea to check out the competition to get a sense of what they're saying.
Starting point is 00:16:26 So these are the women who are writing and under the column that says husbands wanted. Husbands wanted, not even like, you know, boyfriend to see once a month. Not even boo-thing. Well, this is the thing. He's naming the column Husbands Wanted. People are saying
Starting point is 00:16:40 They're open. All right. Okay. So we're reading in between lines here. Modern individuals. I'm going to read you this letter, sign, Brown Eyes. Hello. To the Lonesome Hearts Editor, I am 19. Light brown, five feet, six inches tall,
Starting point is 00:16:58 black hair with a medium-length wavy bob, play piano, like to keep house, like children, and am considered quite good-looking and charming. My father left me a legacy, which I can't receive until I marry. I suppose he thought I would run through it uselessly alone, but I will share it with the man that I consider for marriage.
Starting point is 00:17:18 I could never marry my present boyfriend for reasons untold. All right. I want to know what those reasons untold might be. So I want some tall, handsome, neat, lovable, brown-skinned man between 25 and 30 to write and send me a picture of himself in credentials. He must be a college man with a good disposition, clean, not drink excessively, industrious, and know how and when to invest. He must be a real he-man of athletic build, but not under six feet, brown eyes.
Starting point is 00:17:56 First of all, not he-man. I mean, some of 1937, you know, the depression is still kind of like maybe waning, but it's still happening. Like, people ain't getting enough nutrition. You know what? Brown-eyes, I understand. I get where she's coming from. I mean, I'm not saying she, her standards are too high.
Starting point is 00:18:14 I'm just saying, like, wow, she wants all of the things. All right, Steve Harvey. I'm not saying she should lower her stams. I'm just saying, and maybe in D.C., you know what I'm going, it might be easy to find a college educated dude. Near Howard. She's like, let's go. I feel like she's narrowing the playing field.
Starting point is 00:18:28 Pre-civil rights act, something like 4% of black people at college degree. So, I mean, I'm just saying maybe education in particular might be a thing that might be like a high, the shoulder to cross. I got you. Okay, Jean. just one more column, just to give you a sense, a feel for what the ladies are asking of the men. Yes. So, okay. This one is from someone named Smiling Peggy to the Lonesome Hearts Editor. I would love to meet some nice gentleman, plural, between the ages of 24 and 29, employed, lover of church and movies, all good, clean, fun, and color doesn't matter. I am brown skin, considered nice looking by my friends. Five foot five, weigh 156 pounds, high school graduate, regularly.
Starting point is 00:19:11 employed, not interested in any man who has been married, I won't answer all letters promptly and give a fuller description of myself. That's your composition. All right, Peggy. She likes movies, just like you. Movies, church, a man with sense, and a job?
Starting point is 00:19:27 In a job. I thought you and Peggy are looking for something closer to the same thing. You mean a more rational version of a man than what brown eyes was looking for? Brown eyes, that's for everything. All right, so you've got the lay of the lay-in.
Starting point is 00:19:44 You've got to feel for it. Now, I should say, when people say color doesn't matter what they mean, because we are in 1937, it doesn't matter if you're light skin or your dark skin or your brown. Well, no, there's no mention of dark skin. They mean light skin or brown skin. Nobody mentions dark skin. These colorist people. I know.
Starting point is 00:19:59 My people are left out. Everybody just says color doesn't matter. And we are, we should, for those of y'all can't see us, we are all dark brown, all of the three of us. Chocolty people. Out here fighting for us. Every day. Even back then.
Starting point is 00:20:11 Even back then. Especially back then. Oh, my gosh. Jean and I have both made selections for you. All right. Jean, you better have done right by me. I'm trying to always try to do right about you. All right.
Starting point is 00:20:23 Nicole, I don't really know you, but I trust you. Gene, I know you and you're going to do me dirty. I'm not going to do you dirty. I'm not going to do you, I promise. And I am like a producer on a reality show, so who knows what I will do. She was the most. She was chaos. She wants drama.
Starting point is 00:20:38 Ah, Potster. Okay. All right, okay. Okay. I'm ready. Let's go, let's take turns. We'll go one and one. So, Gene, I'll go first.
Starting point is 00:20:47 I'll share my first one. Okay. Okay, Parker, please meet Bachelor number one. To the Lonesome Hearts Editor, ex-male man who went wrong, desires the friendship of a broad-minded and successful woman between the ages of 25 and 55.
Starting point is 00:21:04 I am at present employed on the WPA, but expect better very soon. I am 39, light brown, 5 feet 4 inches weigh 165 pounds to like medium size, with a dignified appearance. I once owned my own home and car, I am affectionate and will try to be a good husband. Was in government service 14 years before real estate investment, as well as others, caused my downfall, ex-mailman? Ex-mailman, I mean, I was with you, but I feel like that's going to be.
Starting point is 00:21:42 be some evenings hearing that a lot. What do you mean? What do you mean? I'm just being like, they tried to take me down. The ops tried to destroy me. I'm going to have to hide my money in a loose brick in the living room
Starting point is 00:21:59 and all of a sudden it's going to go missing because he's got a new investment deal. I promise I do right. I'm making it right. He's going to be like, I promise, I promise. I just need the right woman to turn it around between the ages of 25 and 55. He's like, it don't matter.
Starting point is 00:22:15 It don't matter. A broad-minded and successful woman. Now, you are successful, and he would love it if you had already achieved some of that success, and you would just bring it on home to him. Pass. Pass. Hard. I just typed it, pass.
Starting point is 00:22:33 As an agent of chaos, that's fine. All right, Gene, you're up. Okay. To the Lonesome Hearts Editor, I'm a widower. My wife has been dead. nearly four years. I own my home, a farm, and six-room house. I'm getting old.
Starting point is 00:22:50 Wait, is he old? I'm sorry. I'm getting old, but I'm not too old to take care of an honest and kind woman who is strictly a one-man as I'm a one-woman man. I'm an April-born man, and if you don't mind, please give me your birth month. No harm in giving out our birth dates as the only thing
Starting point is 00:23:14 Under the sun that makes a good man or good woman is a good principle. Signed Eastman. Just before you say, I'm just curious of Parker, do you understand, do you have any idea why I thought that person might be a good match for you? Because, you know, I'm an astrology girl. Yes. Oh, my God. You get me.
Starting point is 00:23:35 See, I told you I was trying to be right by you. Oh, my God. I feel like. And he's an Aries? Oh, my God. See? That's my moon. I was like, I feel like
Starting point is 00:23:51 y'all be on the same page. Oh, my God. So he's got a job. He's got a farm. He's got a six-bedroom house. He's getting older, so he might get gone soon so I can get that house and that farm. But also, to Nicole's point, like, older. And that time, if you live in the 58, older could be, like, 30.
Starting point is 00:24:11 You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's true. I can't work through it. And he did not mention kids. Oh, that's right. Oh, that's right. He didn't. Oh, I can make this work.
Starting point is 00:24:21 Oh, a nice, a nice, kind, Aries, older man with, like, his life together. He's, I mean, he's up there right now. Okay. We're working through it. Like, I mean, RIP to wife number one, but I might be wife number two. I mean, she might have been, like, the Libre or something. You know what I mean? Like, that's probably why.
Starting point is 00:24:41 We don't know what happens to it. Exactly. That's one vote for Eastman. Eastman, we can make it work. All right, next up. To the Lonesome Hearts Editor, I am an artist, 43, dark brown skin, 5 feet 8 inches, weigh 185 pounds,
Starting point is 00:25:04 neat with black curly hair, and have been in show business over 15 years, own my home in the West, and I expect to go back as soon as my contracts here expire. My wife is dead, and I have a young son. I would like to meet a refined, oh, wait. What's the problem? Now, just know that people say what they want,
Starting point is 00:25:28 but everybody, you know, we have to be flexible with our ass. So I would like to meet a refined widow, 40 to 45. I can't, I'm sorry, I'm not in my 40s, and I'm not a widow. Yeah, but this is what he's saying. You know, we can't just rule people out. Like, he's saying best case scenario, a widow. But he might be open.
Starting point is 00:25:49 Let's see. Let's see if you'd still be willing to write to him. One who can appreciate a nice home with pleasing surroundings. I am willing to marry if I can find the right type, but she must be that type girl. Or you will be wasting your paper. Color and looks mean nothing. Character is what counts with me.
Starting point is 00:26:09 Artist Dantar. All right. Okay, so quick question. Why do you think he's specifically asking for a widow? Maybe she got money? I feel like that could be part of it. The stigma attached to a woman who is 40 or 45 and has never been married might be. Because he's asked for a refined widow.
Starting point is 00:26:31 So that also seems to be code of like, I would like you to have a little bit of money, a little bit of class. It's very specific. And I feel like I could wait out for my neck and cold. Like, I don't need, I can wait this out. I don't know about him. Okay. All right, then. Gene.
Starting point is 00:26:49 All right, we got one more for you, though, before you make up your mind, Parker, about who you forever food is going to be. Okay. To the Lonesome Hearts Editor, I'm 36 years old, brown skin, weigh 138.5 pounds. That's very specific. Barber by trade, a steady worker and a churchman, do not drink or gamble. I would like to get in touch with some refined girl who is looking for a one woman man for a husband. Color doesn't matter. What I want is happiness at home. I would indeed appreciate a wife, one whose ways and ideas are similar to mine. I'm quiet, old-fashioned myself. I desire one who
Starting point is 00:27:24 enjoys the same things I do as movies, radio, reading, and church. Her height 5-3 to 6 feet, weight 120. Age does not matter. We'll exchange photos. Signed Homer. I do like the name Homer. It's such an old-timey while. We got a 36-year-old barber. He likes church. He likes movies, radio. And a barber back then, like, would have been, like, a social hub, right? Yeah, like, he would have been connected, you know.
Starting point is 00:27:59 Okay, so Homer said that he was old-fashioned. What do we think that means? He seems very traditional. I don't know if he would love the independence that I see. Right, because old-fashioned in 1937 is like 1901. So that's a Victorian vibe. They were like, I saw Parker talking to some man on the corner. And what were you doing talking to him?
Starting point is 00:28:26 Like, I was buying groceries. I can't believe they'd let these women read these things. Exactly. Like, that would be, you're right. That would be the vibe. Or like she went out and she didn't have gloves on her hands. People could see her dirty hands. Like, she's tempting men, you know.
Starting point is 00:28:39 Oh, he's going to tear my books in half. No wife of mine is going to be reading this filth. I'm like that. My father is James Joyce. Lexington Hughes, what do we know about these Negroes? What? Oh, my God. What kind of weird ideas is he trying to put in your head?
Starting point is 00:28:58 I'm just thinking about, okay, at Eastman's house, I could turn one of those bedrooms into like an office and a library. You could knock down a wall. Oh, my God. You could absolutely knock down a wall. The options are endless. And a farm-style house? That's so popular right now.
Starting point is 00:29:18 Oh my God. HGTV would be on me if they knew. What do you know about farm life? I spent my summers as a kid on a farm. Oh, my God. You know, I've seen livestock get chopped. You know what I mean? Like, I know some of the ins and outs.
Starting point is 00:29:35 I would have to learn. But, oh, my God, we have made a Hallmark movie for me in my relationship with Eastman. Oh my God. Okay, so it sounds like you've made your final decision. I feel like I, I mean, Eastman, I could take him or leave him. He seems well adjusted for the time. He could be a partner.
Starting point is 00:30:03 He's an Aries. He's an Aries. Very important. So he's an independent thinker. And as an Aquarius You already know As an Aquarius I already am
Starting point is 00:30:15 I know you know the vibes And I as a convivial isolationist Someone who loves people But also prefers to be by herself Being on a farm with my man Best case scenario Best case scenario And I'm not that far from D.C.
Starting point is 00:30:31 If he's sending letters to the paper I can see the vision Gene, this is the most kudos I will ever give you. You did good. You did good. Just the most? I mean, I found you a for Apooh. You found me for Apooh?
Starting point is 00:30:48 You found me a farmer who's into astrology. That is like top-tier idea. I want that now. All that means to me is that you're a 30-something woman who lives in Brooklyn. You're not wrong. There's so much to be said about the beauty of every day. life. And in particular, what fascinates me about this time, about the people who came right after slavery, who were born free, this first and second and third generations, they're imagining
Starting point is 00:31:21 what being black could be. And they're trying on a lot of different identities. They're trying real estate investments. Maybe they're failing. They're becoming farmers and businessmen and trying out traveling. There's a lot of people, the papers, especially in Chicago, would tell stories. They'd send their correspondence around the world. And they would just write back stories of this is what life looks like in London. Did you know there are black people in Italy?
Starting point is 00:31:48 And people are wondering, could a black person travel? Could a black person be a writer? Some of these papers published short fiction. I love to read these papers and see them imagine what black life could be. I'd never imagined that they were dreaming so big. I think my picture is just that they're suffering.
Starting point is 00:32:08 but they're imagining so much for us, and we're living that now. And that's what I really love about visiting the past in this way. Are you saying that I'm going to hate myself saying this. Do it. I know. I know. Go ahead. We are our ancestors wildest dreams. Gene. There it is. Nicole Hill is a storyteller who hosts the podcast,
Starting point is 00:32:39 The Secret Adventures of Black People. Nicole, thank you for coming on. This is so much fun. Thank you for having me. I'm sorry that I didn't find you a better boo. It's all right. It's all right. This was an absolute delight. I've learned a lot.
Starting point is 00:32:53 And I've learned not to underestimate you. Or the stars. And that's our show. You can follow us on Instagram at NPR Code Switch. If email is more your thing, ours is CodeSwitch at NPR.org. And don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter. You can do that at NPR. And subscribe to the podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcast.
Starting point is 00:33:25 And we just wanted to give a quick shout out to our Code Switch Plus listeners. We appreciate y'all. And thank you for being subscribers. When you subscribe to Code Switch Plus, it means you get to listen to all of our episodes without sponsor breaks. And it also helps support our show. So if you rock with us, if you like our work, please consider signing up at plus.mpr.org slash coach. This episode was produced by Jess Kung. It was edited by Leah Dinella.
Starting point is 00:33:47 Our engineer was Maggie Luthor. And a big shout out to the rest of a code switch massive. Christina Kala, Xavier Lopez, Dalia Mortata, Vireland Williams, and Lori Liza Agra. I'm Bea Parker. I'm Gene Dempe. Be my Valentine. Be easy. Share a glass and hydrate. God.
Starting point is 00:34:13 Oh, some of these people are in black. Okay. I know. I threw some in. Oh, oh, okay. So this is like B. I don't get too much away. I'm sorry.
Starting point is 00:34:20 Sorry. So it is like the BLK app after all Have you been on that app for real? Yeah, it's all of a sudden A random ass white man is in the mix And I'm like, where did Mike come from? That's a choice

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