Our Ancestors Were Messy - Special Episode: Once Upon a Time in Harlem with Filmmakers David Greaves and Liani Greaves

Episode Date: October 16, 2026

An interview with David Greaves and Liani Greaves, the father-daughter duo behind the documentary Once Upon a Time in Harlem about a party organized in 1972 by filmmaker William Greaves. He invites some of other last living luminaries of the Harlem Renaissance ver and for four hours, this incredible group, reminisce, laugh, and argue, about the Renaissance and their place in a rapidly shifting cultural landscape. Support this independent production and access bonus content at https://ourancestorsweremessy.supercast.comStay in touch at [e-mail] the show on Instagram at @ourancestorsweremessyFollow the show on TikTok at @ourancestorsweremessyLearn more about the show at https://ourancestorsweremessy.comListen on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@OurAncestorsWereMessy 

Whenever I meet listeners, like out, you know, in real life, one of the first things y'all say to me is Zoran Langston. I'm always like, I know those two. And that drama and everything having to do with the Harlem Renaissance just stays with you. And I see the download numbers. So I know what y'all like. And that's why I know that you are going to love this new documentary called Once Upon a Time in Harlem. It drops you off in the middle of this.

dinner party in 1972, with maybe like a dozen or so, of the last living luminaries of the Harlem Renaissance. The guest list includes poets, playwrights, journalists, but most excitingly to me, the librarians that saw all these artists nerds at the library and was like, you and you, come to my house, let's eat chili and talk about art. And then they made magic. So in the documentary, you get to see all these creatives and organizers in a room together in the 70s. So like decades and decades after the Renaissance, and they're all reminiscing and critiquing and arguing and wrestling with the legacy of this enormous movement that they'd been a part of and how it was being remembered and misremembered by 1972. So I was at my house here in 26, waiting impatiently

for this thing to come out, and then the filmmakers got in touch with me. And they were like, Zorin Langston, mm-mm, and I was like, oh my God, can we talk, please? So I'm going to share my conversation with David and Liani Greaves. They are the director and the producer of Once Upon a Time in Harlem. We talked about how they made this incredible documentary, our favorite storylines from the dinner party, the guest list, the mess, taking something from the archives and turning it into art. And one of my favorite historical people, one of my favorite ancestors, the person I feel I'm most in conversation with, she shows up in this documentary. I could not believe it because she's such a low-key behind-the-scenes off-camera person.

but she came to the party and she talked a little bit, so I get to ask them about her. I had such a good time watching this. I had so much fun talking to them, and I figured that if you listen to this show, you probably will too. So while I work on bringing y'all another season, here's a little something in the meantime.

And speaking of season two, I know. I heard you just now. I know. I know. I am working hard. I'm working every day. I've got something very special planned. And if you join the household at our ancestors were messy.supercast.com, you can get monthly updates on the process and the progress and my emotional state around it. I'm so grateful to the household for making this work possible.

I'm so grateful to all of you for listening and diving into these histories with me. Once upon a time in Harlem received a limited release. So depending on where you're living, it just hit theaters today, October 16th. You should grab your friends. You should grab your family. You should grab your neighbors and go check it out. And for now, please enjoy my conversation with the great and good David and Liani Greaves. If there's ever been a movie that I am more interested in, that is more made for what I love, I don't know what it is.

I'm so, so excited. I watched it. I think it was last week and then again and absolutely loved every single minute of it. Before I get into specifics, though, I want to ask, Why was now the time to tell this specific story? I know you've had the tape, you've had the footage for a long time, so why was now the right moment? You saw that.

I'll take it. Because it was the right time. You know, dad had done it for the future, you know. And he wanted to make sure these folks would not be forgotten. And it was important to him that we know about that history, know those people, because they were so. fascinating and bringing them all together and letting them talk and collaborate in conversation as they were back then. And I think it's more meaningful even now than it was playing in 72

because you can look back through two layers of time and get a real perspective on the Renaissance. Yeah. I think everything is in its perfect timing, like that it would come out. I think we need it now this film more than ever. Like we need that, we need that history. We need to be able to see that history, especially right now when those kinds, the history is being suppressed and changed and, you know, and all of that.

So it's like, in its perfect timing, it took the time that it needed. Yeah. Yeah. I thought the same thing, I was like, wow, to be able to see something so intimate right now when both the big historical things are being suppressed, but also like the intimacy, those kinds of moments we don't really get to know

about to see it right now feels exactly right. It did feel very kind of meant to be. Yeah. So people often say that the makers of things are the only ones who know what it's really about. I wonder for the two of you, what's once upon a time in Harlem really about for you two? What a really about, for me, is bringing my father's vision up, making it seen, you know, that he had the foresight to say, you know, this is going to be very important in the future, you know, it's going to be very important for people to know that this time existed, that these people existed, and that, so that for me is the meaning of it, that, that, um, so that for me is the meaning of it, that, that, were able to bring that with the help of my stepmother, Louise Grease, who shepherded after my father had passed. And it was just, that's the important thing to me. I would say why the meaning of the film is to have people pay attention to the way that they're behaving in the now, you know, in the film Richard Bruce Nugent says, when you're in it, it is the now.

You're never thinking about what it's going to mean. And look at what their now was, how creative and incredible there now was. And so I think my grandfather wanted for us to, was showing us this so that we could pay attention to what our, to the way that we are behaving in our circles, in our friend groups, in our, in our communities and how we are, you know, creating with each other and interacting with each other to show us what's possible, what was possible, you know, what we're capable of who we are. And then how do we bring that forward in our lives? And when you both of you talk about it, you sit up straighter when you keep talking about what it means.

And that's what being in an archive really does. It does make you kind of like puff out your chest a little bit and sit up a little straighter and realize like right now what's in us based off of like what you've seen in the past. Yes. Okay. So this is like, we're getting into some deep, deep history in this, in this documentary. What would you recommend as a primer for getting into the movie? If people need a little bit of a refresher on the Harlem Renaissance and some of the people that you feature.

I would recommend this podcast called Air. I didn't even set that up. I really didn't. I would recommend that. I mean, honestly, because it's such a wonderful. It's so captivating. I mean, again, but to be, it's so captivating, but, you know, like the Langston and Zora.

And then, you know, Louise Patterson is in our, is in our, the typist that was working with them. And so, you know, I love our film also because it does kind of serve as that. Yeah. You know, you can kind of pick and choose as you hear a name, you can write it down and you can just do it, do your rea. through your research and study and you hear a piece of, you know, the Negro art Hocom, which I love. If you haven't read it, you have to, you must.

And then the Lankton response to it. But like if you hear someone mention a poem or whatever, you just, you know, find it and be curious. Yeah, I think they can do the start with the film first or they can start with studying, looking at the names, you know, in the Harlem Renaissance first. And seeing their work, you know, reading, reading their work, reading their poetry, and then seeing and seeing their artwork and then seeing them live. Yeah. I think that. So it worked either way.

Either way they can look at, look at, discover the people from the film or discover them first. Yeah. A hundred percent. I would say the thing that's, here's what I would say, watch it, go to the movies, watch it on October 16th, go look up everybody, go back on October 17. There you go. Again. Yeah. It's the second watch.

It's the third watch. It was so funny last night we showed it and people where Emmanuel was saying he saw it for the 10th time. He's like, and I still see. And even me, I was still seeing. I'd be curious were there names in the film. Sorry, I'm interviewing you, but were there names in the film that people that you didn't know? Listen, now here. Oh, oh, definitely.

But I was like, I've got specific storylines that I want to talk about. And people, because first of all, Ted Austin, Poston, Poston. Okay, I've seen his picture everywhere. I've always seen his picture in the archives. I did not know who he was. And I've seen his name on byline, but I didn't connect with the photos of him. That was who wrote it. And seeing him, seeing William Patterson in the room, who's, you know, this influential labor and Communist Party leader,

see, we've got librarians and historians, people that you would not. think automatically when people say the Harlem Renaissance, these aren't the names that get often celebrated. Were you surprised to see them in the room as opposed to, you know, sort of like the bigger name, celebrities that everybody might think of? I was. I mean, I just learned that those names, you know, like most, I think I say like most people, but I don't know that most people learn or study the Harlem Renaissance, but I mean, you know, growing up, you sort of, you know, the names that you know, right?

So in popular culture. So like Aaron Douglas and Langston Hughes and Zora Nielhurst. But those other kind of names that were very important, I did not know and was introduced to, like George Shiler, I was introduced to in the film. Yeah, it didn't matter that they were not widely known, you know, the fact that they were still those creative elements, you know, they were still part of that whole collaboration.

and it isn't just the big names that make a history. You know, it is the folks that are on the ground and just interacting that really are the foundation. Like Regina Andrews. I was just about to mention Regina. That is the name I did not know. And I was like, of course the librarian is going to. Of course, you have a curator and a historian. And of course, these people are in the room.

But they don't get talked about. Yes, that's right. And they were critical. I mean, Regina Andrews was the nucleus around which a lot of these rioters would circulate. You know, they would come to the library. They met a young lady who was fascinated by them, you know, and fascinated by their work. The one who was on the bond, Bonn Thompson says, she recognized my name. I'd never done anything before.

And they later went out on a date. two. Yes, that's right. Really? Wait, did they talk about that? Messy part. Now to get a messy. I can't wait to tell you the archive. I do. You know I have a question on the math. Don't say the mess, that messy part.

Okay, I'll be. My absolute favorite person that I have discovered in Black History traveled to Georgia to see her, to read her papers is Louise Thompson Patterson. When she was in there, my eyes immediately welled up. I think she's just such an extraordinary, very undersung, you know, figure, but she did so much she was everywhere. This is selfish now. Is there some kind of backrooms, some kind of other footage of her somewhere, just talking up a storm?

I know she was so quiet, though, but. She was so quiet. There's not. No, actually you heard. And we didn't get to interview her either. Yeah. Yeah, which is unfortunately. Yes, absolutely.

But I love the moment in there in which she kind of gears, brings everybody to, you know, I think the women need to be, need to be talked about. And that was, she was another person that I did not, I didn't know about until, and the more you research her, you just find that she was a very important organizer and activist. Yeah. She was everywhere. She was part of everything. Yeah, yeah.

And there is more of her in the outtakes, you know, in the conversations. in the conversation there. In that conversation, yeah. In that conversation there, but we have to obviously short it. Yeah, of course. I'm sure. I can't imagine cutting down all that footage. That's right.

I don't envy you that. Speaking of the women was kind of, what were the storylines that you wanted to be sure to highlight when you were selecting tape? Would you want to be sure you were highlighting about the women in their role in the Renaissance? Well, there was a point when I was doing the film and I said, gee, there's a lot of men up in here. you know, we had the win. So for Zora Neal Hurston, when on a bomb top, we're not on a bomb top,

when Bruce Nugent says, Zora, Nia Hurston, you know, your opinions are very important to you when they're yours. Uh-huh. And that was, I thought, oh, we can kick off from there to Zora Nia. I went through her poetry,

and I looked at her essays, And then there was one of those essays that ended with the line on, I'm too busy sharpening my oyster knife. Yes. My mother talking about sharpening her oyster knife. I said, oh, well, that's the section. That's the going and Leonie voiced it. Yeah. Oh, that was you.

Yes. Oh, I love that read of it. I loved it. Yeah. Yes. Oh, thank you. Yes. It was great.

I was like, oh, who's reading this? Yeah. And then the other thing for every day, I said, the women folk have to. have this. That is the when Regina Andrews says that Essie Robson, I said, that's got to go. And I remember my aunt's saying, well, you know it was Essie who really did such a sudden.

I know what's going on? This is why I had to make a whole episode about it. I was like, she was right. So I said, you know, that section had to go as smooth as that. That's right. Yes, yes. Oh, I love it. I'm sorry. Did I cut you off?

No, no, no, no. Not at all. No. Okay. Amazing. Oh, okay. Have we all been saying County Cullen's name wrong this whole time? Is it Cante? Cante.

And she says Cante. Yeah. Yeah, we said Cante. Yeah, Cante. Yeah, Cante. Yeah, Cante. Yeah. When I was watching, I was like,

I mentioned his name once. Wait, did she say Conte? Yeah. Like, Counte Cullen. Yes, yes, yes. Go. Whatever she says, Idae says. That's how we're going to say.

That's what we're going to be saying from now on. Thank you. Oh, okay. What were some of the, you know, we've kind of, we've been hopping around storylines. But for you all, what were sort of the main storylines of this party? You don't have to go into like a ton of detail, give up spoilers. But sort of what were the things you were wanting to follow? I think one of the major ones was the relationship, the nucleus around the library.

I think that was, you know, that was a big one, that this was a place that people kind of gathered. That and as well as the, you know, with a jury major, who I also love in our film, who, you know, just as these people that were, these women that were the people that kind of brought everyone together where you would find everyone and everyone at their parties or in the library, writing and creating space for people. So I think that was a storyline that just sort of developed because that's just what the Renaissance was, was people were in community with each other. So that was one that I think we really captured, you know, throughout the idea. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it's interesting that the

women played a role in bringing folks together. And the men did not do that. You know, I don't have any, well, the only thing was that Regina says that she and Ethel Ray is to go by Claude McKay's apartment up the street. I remember that. Yes. Then could, she says they were a sounding board, you know, for the artist. So, but I don't hear about the men and dining people that are doing the same kind of work, you know. You know, with regard to his storylines, too, it's kind of, we thought about that a lot.

And I think we, at one point, there was an email. I think I put that email and I was like, plots are overrated. And I was like, let's just not deal with that whole thing and just, you know, just show the party and show the event. And they were just captivating. As my dad said, he knew, my grandfather kind of knew if you put these people into the room, all you're going to want to do is just watch and listen. And be sure the cameras to record. And have the cameras rolling. And be sure it's rolling.

Like, the following everyone from conversation to conversation makes it that much more immersive. And the places that they go, I think the people that I represented kind of create the storylines to me. It was like, wow, like it just, I just kept circling back to the fact that there's a historian and a librarian in the room. And I couldn't get over that. And then, of course, all the places the conversation went were so fascinating. Were you all hesitant? Because I know we've, like, even on the call, we've been like, okay, well, what mess are we including? What mess are we not including?

How did you decide what would rise to the level of like inclusion and what maybe needed to be left behind? So, for example, Paul Robson. Paul Robson, when Ted Poston is drinking at the table, at the seat, and he's telling the story about, well, you know, I was when I found him in the park. And we had no idea what he was talking about. And we were thinking that we, so, we were watching at wondering whether or not Paul Robs, he wasn't dead at that time of the filming.

So what is he referring to? We couldn't figure that out. And then I went up finding that article in which it says that he was found injured in the, in the park. But that was something that we were like, can we put this in? Because what is he? Which sent you down, sent me down a path of Paul Robson, which is its own sea of drama and messiness.

and all of that. And I was like, why was he in the park in the middle of the night? And this is the questions that we started having. That could figure out why that would have happened. Yeah. Why he was out at night, you know, at that time to be found like that. But nonetheless, that happened. And we did wind up putting it.

So that was one of the things that we weren't sure about. Yeah. Was there something else? Well, it's not in the, it's not a, in the film. But it's part of the messiness. I'm thinking about when Gene Hudson and I were screening from these roots in the editing room.

Oh, it was interesting. And the editing room, that is messy. It's a dark place, you know, and becomes almost like a confessional, you know, the soft sound, you know, and everything. So she became very pensive, you know. She said, you know, there was a party with, when Touloula Bankhead came. And she was wearing a full-length mint coat. And when she opened it up, she was naked underneath.

Women really loved that move back then. And then she said she grabbed that Gene Hudson, you know, where sun don't shine. So she grabbed that. And Jean Hudson said she had to push her way. And my mind couldn't really take all that in. At the time, she told me she was looking at a party. Oh, my goodness. Okay.

So what were some of the exchanges or moments that you keep coming back to when you think about the whole, the process in making the film? The thing that just came into my mind just as you were saying that is Romer Buren saying art comes out of a community. It comes out of audaciousness. I think that is such a. powerful statement, it feels to me very central to the film. I keep talking about this film, feeling like it's like a recipe for a Renaissance or an awakening. And if you listen, if you watch

it, it will tell you how to have that happen. And this is one of those things. You know, art comes out of a community. It comes out of audaciousness, right? So I have to be in community and I have to be audacious in my being. And like these are the, so I feel like there's those kinds of like moments in the film, but particularly that statement from Romero that, Romero Bearden, that feels like, yeah, that's one that I constantly come back to. Yeah. I mean, to me, there's so many statements in there that are meaningful. I love Richard B. Moore.

I was going to say, I'm in Neurology. Yeah, yeah. What shall it be today? What shall it be like straight socialism or Negroology? I said, gee, that's so current today. And the first of all, there has to be a seminar on what is Negroology? Yes. Then once you've defined that, then we can talk about, you know, bringing socialism.

So, yeah, that's, and Ribbitt should be more, so much more that couldn't go in. Yeah, that's a whole other film probably. Sure. Was there something that just barely made the cut where you were like, like, oh, it's just like we're going to have to include this, even if it makes it longer. It was just so important. No, there was, no, I can't think in one particular thing.

But Lee Whippers' speech. Oh, yeah, Lee Whippers' speech at the United Nations. Oh, his lasty speech, because he did that in one take. He just read it straight out. And I loved it for it. I mean, because he'd be here, the whole thing, you know. And the entire thing. Had to be beaten back before.

I had the whole thing. This is what you were fighting for, though. Yes, right. But that was how my father worked. I'm going to put it on, on him. He would leave things in a cut that I would say to myself, that's not going to be in the whole thing. Why is he leaving it in there?

You know? But he always kept it. Then finally he would cut it down. And that's what happened here. It was a great long speech, but it had to be cut down. So cut it down. I said, what would Vladimir Zelensky have said if he was in the same position of no one coming to his aid? It became very easy to cut up the parts that would really resonate with today.

Wow. That framing is actually quite helpful and incredible because it is, if you did not know how invested Harlem was in the struggle for independence in Ethiopia, in the defense of their independence in Ethiopia, it's just so, it sparks the curiosity. Yeah. Hearing that speech and the fact that he remembers it and the fact that it is so long and so passionate, it just was, it just, it really struck me.

I'm glad that you fought to keep that in because that was a moment that I felt like very compelled by. Yeah. Yeah. It's very beautiful. Okay. What has making this movie meant to you personally as, you know, creatives, yourselves, as black people, descendants of all of these incredible creatives.

Like what has it meant to you personally? It's been, it's the greatest work I think of my life. It's been an incredible opportunity to, I feel really grateful to be able to share it with people, like to, you know, for you to see it, for people. for creatives to see it because again, I realize I think this period of time, the period watching them is a recipe for how we can live in the future. And I believe so wholeheartedly, like when people see it, it'll cause them to rise to the occasion to pay more attention to who they're being in the world, you know, in the moment. They'll hear those things like,

you know, you're asking about phrases. When you're in it, it is the now, you know, and they will pay more closer attention to the now because right they are making history you know that they are capable of making history so um it feels it it is meant it is meant that like to be able to shepherd that i mean beyond you know my grandfather uh wanting for this film to happen and then it or gathering these people together and wanting to share it and then my grandmother really she worked her last, her last days of her life to try to make this, this film to show the footage, to be able to turn the footage over to the community. But even beyond that is each of those ancestors that are in the film, you feel a sense of, I felt a sense of obligation to them

to kind of have their voices heard so that people can see them to know, you know, as the poem says at the end my grandfather's poem that we've lived, I've lived. You know, the thing that everyone of us has to say we have lived, we were here, you know. So it's been an, it feels like an honor. Yeah. It's a gift. He feels like a gift. Oh, well, yeah. And then I get to work with my dad, which is kind of, which is, I have a question about that. Very, very, a lot of fun and completely unexpected to be able to do this. Right. Yeah. and something we ever thought about. Is there something you both discovered about each other

that surprised you in this process? Oh, I discovered that my daughter is extraordinarily capable. That's what I did. That's what I discussed. Oh, Jesus, you know. She's grown. With the other producer, and saying about that I don't know what they're talking about,

I'm very. Yes. Yeah, so that would be my. Yeah. And I think I, I, um, it was, for me, it was, it's been, you know, this is my dad's first film and he's turning 80 this year. So, you know, it's just, you know, it's just, yeah, it just feels like it, it feels, it, it feels, I feel very proud of him, you know, I feel very proud of him. And also it, it, it, to realize the level of attention that he was paying, you know, to what had to be in the film, what was important.

And I mean, he's always been in my mind, I always say, you know, when I meet someone that I really am a fan of, I'm like, you're like up there with my dad, like my top five people in the world. You know, it'll be like a list of like four people that I'm like, these are my top favorite people in the world or people that I think are incredibly smart. And my dad is that person.

But to see him actually to work this closely with him and to see him actually make these choices and make, and they were all the right choices, even when I pushed for other things. Like, no, you were right. You were right. Okay, okay. Yeah.

Yeah, there was a lot of things. I just didn't, I didn't, there were some things that I didn't understand in the moment. One thing that my grandfather liked to think about a lot was this idea of conflict. and that when you see to notice that conflict is you know when you have conflict to just pay attention to that because it's an opportunity that nothing else is is learned or really understood except for when you meet something in conflict and so rather than kind of being like oh no this isn't for me you know

you see how you can you be how creative can you be in that moment and so I would so my dad would say this had to be in there and I'd push back and then I'd have to have to sit with myself and kind of think about why am I resisting that what is that about why isn't why you know maybe this is important maybe I don't know what I think I know right and often that was the case he was right um so yeah and would you all debrief wonderful learning learning process is all I was going to say yeah yes would you all debrief these things with each other like as you're going as you're learning as you're seeing each other in these different lights did you talk about that No, really. We just sort of, we paid a lot of attention. When we, my grandmother passed away in, in

23, and she was running my grandfather's company. And for her, the most important thing was this, creating a retro, this, the archive was holding the archive of the 60,000 feet of film. So that was what we did. That was the first thing. And that's what she was really working on, was getting this rest. She wasn't working on a movie. she was working on the restoring of the film. And it was after we kind of went into and then she passes away and now we have this legacy that felt like just how I'm doing it with you. You know, just sort of like, oh my gosh, this legacy that now you have to figure out how to deal with.

And one of the first things that we did at our first meeting with Louise was to go to that quote and we, you know, frame it. And so thinking about my grandfather's work and what was left to be done was to go return ourselves to that quote of, you know, the conflict quote and that, you know, the play is the thing. And so we talked about that. We, you know, I shared the, those quotes and those materials of my grandfather's writings, which we use some of in the film. I shared that with the person that was doing the restoration of the film. I shared it with Anne DeMare, who's the other editor. her on the film. I shared it with Lynn True and I got her the book. So I wanted for them to,

for people to understand that when they feel something for all of us, we talked about this, when you feel something in your body and if it, you know, don't like ignore that, say it because there's something there. You know, like let's keep looking. So we grounded in that before. Especially when you're in a creative process, the reminder that when you're feeling something in your body, that is not to just be like, I'm sure it's nothing. Like, you have to, that's where the last art comes from is diving into that feeling. Yes, yes. And that's one of the things my father said to me is that, David, if something affects you viscerally, go with it.

Yeah. And that's so, as you say, when you get that tingle, you know, they say to you, that's very interesting. Yeah. Hold that, you know, go with that. And so that played a huge part. Yeah. You know, one of the things that vibrated. Yes, yes.

That paid a huge amount of what goes in. Yeah. Wow. Okay, I have to ask about archiving because obviously this is a work of extraordinary archivism. Is there something that your granddad, your dad did that made the process easier? Things that we should keep in mind when we, I mean, so much of our things are digital now. And so it's going to be a whole, that's a whole other process. to go through a digital archive.

But are there things that he did to preserve all of his records and the footage that maybe we should be keeping in mind today? Let me. So I'll share with you about the talent releases, for example. Oh, my goodness. So important. So, yeah, but who's thinking nobody, you're saying that, Nicole, but we weren't thinking about that we were making a movie.

So we were about thinking about nobody was thinking about a talent releases until. you know, we got a movie deal. And then they were like, yeah, so we just need the paperwork now. And we were like, the paperwork. Because my grandmother, much of my grandfather's materials, archives were sent to the Schaumburg Center. And so we had some storage, but a lot of it was sent to the Schaumburg Center. And it has not been, they haven't, some of it has been archived and, you know, dealt with and gone through. and some of it is remaining in boxes.

And I went through all of our storage and did not find anything that we had in our homes and in storage spaces and had to go to the Schaumburg Center and, you know, call up boxes after boxes, after boxes, to go through and find. And when I found that day, when I found those beautiful, beautiful talent releases

with the signatures. and the signatures are just wonderful. It was really fantastic, but they were paper-clipped. They were photocopies. So I believe their originals are in those boxes somewhere, but they were paper-clipped and they were photocopied and it had a yellow sticky on it that said from my grandmother that said releases from Harlem,

like these are copies or something like that. So I, you know, so that my grandparents did keep, well, we didn't have them in our person, they did keep very careful records. My grandmother was very good at that, of taking good, you know, like the location agreements and production kinds of things like that. Thankfully, they were good with that. So, yeah, and otherwise, the rest of the material was at a storage called Iron Mountain, a cold storage, the actual film footage,

was there. And so, you know, keep your stuff and, you know, recognize the importance of it, too. We talked to a young man today that was thinking about, you know, interviewing his grandmother or grandfather. Yeah. He had one of the students who were great, but one of the students said, you know, he had some footage from his, from, I think it wasn't in Alabama, that has, grandfather had taken him down, down there many years or years ago, and he had recorded some or something. And I said, have you recorded him lately? He said, no, I said, listen, you must record it now. You must record him now because in relation to,

when he looks at it in relation to that previous stuff, he's going to see, see things that differently. Archive your people. Archive. Yeah, talk to your people. get their stories down, get their stories down and be curious. I mean, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that.

I know I'm at time. So that's the perfect way to end it, especially the note about the talent releases, which you would not necessarily think today. Sure. I think got to have. Yes, yes, that's right. That's right.

Oh, my goodness. Thank you for this beautiful documentary that you've made. I absolutely loved every minute. I felt like I was in the room. I felt like I was in a time machine in the room, getting to, like, watch all the elders and the grown folks talk. And it just made me feel like exactly what we've been doing this whole interview. You keep sitting up tall and sitting up straighter. I just felt 10 feet tall.

So thank you so much for, I can't even imagine the amount of work that went into putting this together for us. But it's stunning and gorgeous. And you have to see it at minimum two times, but really, I do you like 10. Yes. I agree. That's my record. Always bring somebody with you. Always bring someone with you.

Yes, you're going to want to debrief it. Yeah. Thank you for being you in the world. Honestly, I am so grateful to you for your work. And it's just, it's so awesome and amazing. And I just, you know, 50 years from now, I know that people will be talking about the work that you've contributed into the culture. And I'm really deeply grateful and happy to be.

here to have had a chance to meet you in person, sort of. Yeah. I hope we do get to meet in person. Yes, I would look forward to that. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.