Our Ancestors Were Messy - The Revolutionary Black Loyalists! Live with BA Parker and Gene Demby

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

Thousands of our ancestors escaped slavery during the American Revolution, fought for the British on the promise of freedom, and left an outsized legacy in the US, Canada, and beyond. Starring the co-hosts of Code Switch B.A. Parker and Gene Demby taped live at the Moorland-Spingarn Research Center at Howard University in Washington, DC. Support this independent production and access bonus content at https://ourancestorsweremessy.supercast.com Sign up for the newsletter and learn more about the show at https://ourancestorsweremessy.com Stay in touch at [e-mail] Follow the show on Instagram at @ourancestorsweremessy Follow the show on TikTok at @ourancestorsweremessy Listen on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@OurAncestorsWereMessy  SELECT SOURCES The Black Loyalists of the American Revolution Enslaved by George Washington, This Man Escaped to Freedom-and Joined the British Army Black Loyalists Exodus to Nova Scotia An Account of the Life of Mr. David George from SLA given by himself George Liele Thomas Peters The Black Loyalist Heritage Center

The Secret Adventures of Black People Presents Our ancestors were messy. A band of war-weary vets embark on a quest to find the promised land. Along the way, they'll face obstacles that pit them against the elements, the unemployed, and each other. This episode stars co-hosts of NPR's Code Switch, B.A. Parker and Jane Demby. And your host, Nicole Hill. Hi, from the Moreland Spingarne Research Center in Washington, D.E. This is Our Ancestors Were Messy, a show about our ancestors and all their drama.

So typically I tell stories from 1865 to 1955. However, today, I'm doing something a little different. Oh, let's go. Because it's America's semi-Quincentennial, which is the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. Say the word again? Semi-Quincennial. All right now. It's an important and real word.

and the I have a feeling that this current regime might not celebrate black folks what makes you say that? I don't know why I think that, but we were there, if you can believe it. You're kidding. Before, but I don't think they're going to talk about it. Absolutely not. So I was like, let's talk about it here today. So I'm going to be telling a story from the revolutionary era of America,

the colonial revolutionary, that whole period. Okay. That's what we're talking about today. This is pre-newspapers, but not pre-Mess. Don't worry. It will be in here. Like Christmas Addix mess? Does he have mess?

I don't know. I mean, he was the first one to die in the war. He was. I'm not going to be talking about stuff like that. All right. It's going to be different from that. You'll notice that you all have bells. Yes.

Oh, what are? So, yeah. Oh, you don't have bells. Do you want some? Don't worry about it because we're doing it fully? Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Let's go.

So what we're going to be doing is there's going to be decisions that have to be made. You all will make some decisions, and all of you are going to be making some decisions. And you'll bring your decisions, though. Huh? Make good decisions. Make good choices. And so you'll ring your bells to let us know. And you'll learn more as we go.

Now we begin. Hello, you two. Hi. I have some questions for you. Okay. To get us ready for today's story. Okay. How has the black church influenced your identity as a black American, if at all?

Oh my God. So you're Catholic, right? I'm super Catholic, but I'm black Catholic, which is a very specific kind of Catholic. I mean, it's crazy because people don't get it. It's like, there's gospel music and genuflection and communion. And all the, all the people in my church were black. All the priests were black. So it was a very black liturgy.

But, you know, all the Catholic stuff. You know what I'm saying? Wow. So I didn't get the, the first time I went to a Baptist church. If you're a Catholic, you know that mass is 55 minutes. And that's the priest is going long. if he's like ramble. So the first time was up Baptist Church

and I saw at the bottom of the little program an asterisk that said this is scheduled to change subject to change the discretion of the Holy Ghost. I was like, what's this man? We got there at 10 a.m. The Eagles game started at 1. Oh, you missed half that.

I missed the entire game. We went in for four out. I was like, what is this? That's just standard. No, listen. That was standard. It was too much. It was going to run a man.

I was like, dog, this is too much. The praise and worship was longer than mess. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. I enjoyed the vibes. I grew up Baptist. Come down.

You know. Electrolites. My, like, my mom is still a big part of, like, the home church. Like, my deacon sends me a very nice Easter card in New York. It's really nice. My mom tricked me into giving a sermon last year. Wait, you did a sermon? Oh, wow.

It wasn't. I don't know if it was a sermon. They, I was supposed to give a speech. And then I looked and I realized that was the only person speaking there. And they were like, you sit here and it was like the preacher's chair. Oh, my gosh. And I was like, oh, I feel like I've been tricked. Did you get into the?

No, because I have sense. I don't have. That's not my, that's not my ministry. That's not my ministry. That's not my ministry. Okay, so we experienced, the black church has been a part of your experience. Yeah. I mean, whenever people turn these questions around on me, I'm like, you know what we do it right now.

I have, I grew up super, super Pentecostal. Oh. So we're talking. She went past or somebody say something. That's a whole different guy. That's true. But we're, you know, so it's a lot of them, if you don't know. A lot of speaking in tongues, church all day.

I was like four hours. It's so cute. You're cute. Light work. But I will say, and Ronald can back me up on this. Because I grew up every Sunday was a full concert, it's like you learn what it is to be an orator. You learn what it is to move a crowd.

Because every single Sunday, that's just what you do for 12 hours. That's what you do now. Yeah. That's me. No, I mean, not 12. Like six. Okay. What kind of black are each of you?

What's you mean? What kind of black are you? When you, when you, wait, do you have an answer? Wait, what is your answer? Go ahead. I would say that I'm a reluctant huxtable. Oh. My family is, I'm a working class family.

I'm not working class anymore. It's the moving into the black upper middle class has been a very, vertiginous experience. It's something I'm trying to make sense of all the time. It's very essential to my politics. But all the time, I'm like, I'm like, these huxtables, my home, Leah said to this other head and I was like, Gene, you were a huxable.

Yeah, my God. Anyway, so yeah, that's the word I live in now. A reluctant hustles. Oh, if we're using those terms, I'm like a sinclair. Please explain. From living too, though. Like, I, I grew up, I, I grew up in an only child, but I was always raised.

I was gripped around a bunch of elderly people and their siblings. So I come, I come off like a black Amish. Black Amish. My mom is offended by that somehow. But, yeah. So Park is, you know, those kids on the playground, I'd be like, you ain't got the sense. God gave a bit. A little bit.

I did. I talked like an angry Southern baby. An angry Southern baby A black Amish What Like I sounded like Like someone's grandma When I was like five

Oh yes So I have that going for me My best friend when I was a kid Used to call me Nana Like that was her nickname for me Okay Okay So like that

Okay so Sinclair Black Amish What do you say a Black Southern baby That is the first on the show We have not had anybody Explain their blackness that way And I love it All right

Thank you all so much. These questions will factor in to how you experience the story. Let's begin. It's 1775 and we're in Philly. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in the home of one of the most famous Americans in the world, Benjamin Franklin. In the living room behind closed doors, this is in the movie, Benjamin is fighting with his beloved only son, William Franklin.

And here's why. At the moment, there are around 2 million largely European migrants living in the 13 colonies. Native Americans would call them illegals. They're pretty diverse, different languages and religions and cultures, but you can divide everyone up this way. A third, Benjamin Franklin included, are like, we're done with the British. We're called patriots, and we want to do the American Revolution.

Another third are like, we hate politics, leave us out of this. They're not getting involved. And then the final third, including William Franklin, the son, are like, we need to stick with the British. We're called loyalists, and we're going to stop this American insertion. direction. In the movie, Benjamin Franklin is yelling at his son. He's saying, you're going to be a loyalist slave to the British.

Calling people slaves for siding with the British is like a thing that the Patriots love to do. Even though. Even though. Why about the slaves you own? Cognitive dissonance. There's like a thing in anthropology where you can understand a culture by their cognitive dissonance.

So this is part of that. So that's what he's like, you're going to be a little slave. I can't believe you. And William says, dad, why are you going against our king and over what, the Boston massacre? It's not, that wasn't even a massacre. That's fake news. These two, these two will go on to fight on opposite sides of the war. Afterwards, despite Williams' attempts at reconciliation, Benjamin Franklin will die having never forgiven his son for siding with the British.

America was a house divided from the very start. But this is not a story about the Franklins. Oh, I'm supposed to say. Yeah, I mean, it's a different show. Wait a second. In the movie, listening to this fight just outside the living room are Joseph, Jemima, Peter King, Othello, George, and Bob. These are all the people that Benjamin Franklin enslaved in his lifetime. Okay.

They turn to each other and they say the thing that has to be on the minds of the 500,000 enslaved black people across the 13 colonies. Whose side of this are we on? This is the story of our ancestors' revolutionary quest for Promise Land. Let's go. Okay. Here we go. Act 1. Okay. So here's going to happen. We're going to make a bunch of decisions. Okay. And when it's decision time, you're going to see this board.

And I'm going to ask the two of you, what would you do? And I'm going to ask all of you all, what would you do? And we're going to go from there. And there's no pressure. People often say they feel stressed at this part. Don't feel stress. Well, now people are looking at us. Huh? People are looking at us when we decide. Yeah, but it's going to be fine because you can consult each other. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. You'll make good choices. here we go will we don't you will all right so here we go it's still the colonial era and now we are in Essex County Virginia

with our ancestor whose name is David George every historical account I've read about him describes him as charming and charismatic and a survivor you will need to cast him later so just keep that in mind you don't have to pick now

there'll be a point where I ask but yeah just keep it in the back of your head it can be anybody living dead it doesn't matter but think about it I won't have a picture for you because people did not take pictures of, you know, enslaved. Okay, he'd been born enslaved to a sadistic person that we're going to call the cruel man. David sees this man torture his family and he's terrified that he is next, so he runs. But for our ancestors, running was only the beginning because people that traffic in humans don't just let them go.

They own businesses where labor is free. And if you build a whole country with free labor, it'll be competitive on the global market in no time. so industries evolved to keep enslaved people enslaved. After David runs, the cruel man chases him across Virginia. He's bought and sold a few times by other people, always with the cruel man on his heels. Eventually he sold to someone down in Silver Bluff, South Carolina, and he escapes the cruel man for good. On this new plantation, things are a little bit calmer. He meets and marries a very resilient-sounding woman named Phyllis, and they have a baby.

Okay, based on what you've heard so far, who would you? cast to be David and who would you like to see be his phyllis? So I don't want to say because of Django, but you said, Charming, Survivor. Charismatic, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jamie Fox is like a font of charisma. Like, and a person who can, you know what I'm saying? That's what I was thinking. Oh, wait. Oh, I mean, I was thinking like, yeah, Abdul Matine. I mean, the reason she was thinking about him.

I mean, I'm fine. She's always thinking about him. She's indeed, to be clear. To be clear. So that's, you know, if I could, if somebody has that one, you can have the, Phyllis. Oh. All right. Okay.

So we got a bell. So it's Yaya. Yeah. All right. Just look at the population. I know. I know. She knows.

Okay. But you can pick the woman. Okay. You cast Phyllis. She's resilient. They unfortunately don't give us a lot of information about Phyllis. But she is definitely resilient. Do you don't need Brazilian people?

They said Brazilian. They said Brazilian? Resilian, not resilient. Not Brazilian. Truth be told I have tinnitus. I'm working out. Resilient. Resilient.

Oh, man. And who would we want to see next to y'all, y'all, playing his wife. They're about to go on a whole journey. Ooh. Y'all muttering. Hold on, hold on. Oh, do you have ideas?

Wait, who do y'all say? But see, Virginia King should be in everything. That's the thing. She should be in everything. They went to watchmen together. It already worked. Oh. So now we got to do it.

So now we have to do it. The bells have been wrong. Okay. Okay. Regina King is like such a value add to everything. It's true. But now it's done. Okay.

So Regina King and Yaya. And that's who we're picturing. That's what we're imagining. David is, is. Sorry, David is Yaya. Yes. And Regina King is Phyllis. Okay.

Gosh, okay. All right. I'm locked in. Here we go. So they have a child. Okay. And the situation seems calmer. This enslaver isn't as violent.

But David falls into what sounds like a depression. Today we would point to the family separation, the escapes, the captures, knowing his child has been born enslaved. But at the time, he doesn't know what's wrong with him. They're obviously not thinking too much about their mental health. He is one day he's like in the woods and he runs into a guy. We've all had this experience. The dude is like, do you know our Lord and Savior?

Jesus Christ. And he's like, no, not really. And the guy's like, well, if you don't get to know him, you're going to burn in hell forever. And so he's kind of like, oh, okay, for him, that works. Sometimes that works. So he starts thinking about Christianity. Okay. And he starts praying. And at first, nothing happens. But then eventually, he keeps at it. And he says that he hears God say, I will send you deliverance. Okay. Yeah. Could this maybe be a sign that he should run again? He has run before. It's time for major decisions. number one. Here we go. Imagine that you are in his shoes. You tried to escape slavery a few times. It had not worked out for you before, but you are miserable and you believe you've been

told that deliverance is coming. The other thing to keep in mind, you do have a partner and a child. And imagine the child is like under five. Would you run again or would you try to find some peace in slavery? Oh my God. You're a parent. This is the thing you have to consider. I am not a parent. Yeah, and they're in South Carolina, yeah. South Carolina. I, I, okay, they got away with it once.

Yeah, what would you do? No, okay, so the two of you don't think about anything else. Think about your, imagine somebody you love. They need to come with you. What would you do? Leaving my son, my son is forward. My son, oh my God, that would destroy me. I don't know.

I honestly do not know how to answer this question. I would like to think that I'm the person. person who runs. But I also, I want to be, I don't know, but could the current state we're in? It's not a split the baby situation. You can't take your wife and your child cannot come with you. I mean, you could ask them to try to run. She just had a baby and the baby is a baby. But it's like, what would you do? It's a leap of faith. As a Baptist, we believe in the leap of faith. All right. So what's your choice going to be? This is collective? No, no, no. You can decide separately.

then I'm leaving and I don't know what you're doing Jean All right So Parker is running Gene I'm gonna say stay I just gonna see what this story goes

But I don't know That's the right answer No no right answer There's a terrible choice I know There's no right answer Okay Because he's going to die

It's truly whatever You would do in his shoes Right now he's just like I am so miserable What do I do? You've decided you're out I'm out And Gene, final decision?

I'll stay. You're staying. All right. If you are running, let's hear it. All right. And if you're going to stay? It's real. So, David George stays.

Okay. But he's miserable. He keeps trying prayer, and he's still keeping an eye on the horizon for this deliverance that God said that he would sin. And the praying and the hoping does start to make him feel a little bit better. then a black Baptist pastor named Brother Lyle stops by the plantation. During colonial era, Baptist and Methodists were welcoming to converts from laboring classes across race, but in different ways. Can't get into that more right now. Just keep it in mind.

Anyway, brother Lyle is preaching and he's like, you guys, God said, come unto me all you that labor and I will give you rest. And David George is like, oh, my God. God likes laborers? That's incredible. He learns to read. He starts scrolling through the Bible. He's like, like, like, like. He's into all of it. Him and Phyllis get baptized, and then they join Brother Lyle's congregation. So they offer him a position as a pastor because people just like him. So like, do you want to be our pastor? And he is like, pass, because he feels like he's unfit. But eventually he says, okay. And he gets their enslaver to give them a barn for their services. They name it Silver Bluff Baptist. And it becomes one of the first.

of the first black churches in America. Whoa. If you Google it, they'll say they're the first. I wish I could call them that, but like technically, I mean, it's complicated. Of course always. But they're one of the first, like first or second, like official in a building recognized by white people. Under David, Silver Bluff Baptist grows from eight to 30 members.

His congregation is made up of our ancestors, fellow captives. They're all likely to have experienced violent assaults and to have witnessed their loved ones being violently assaulted, but I imagine that at Silver Bluff Baptist, they get to enjoy at least for a little while a sense of safety. Everybody say safety. Safety. Ooh, he sounds so good. In that safety, they'll teach each other Bible stories. Historians note that black folks across colonies seem to love one story in particular. It's there, I want to dance with somebody, they're living on a prayer, their return of the Mac. It's the Exodus tale of how God sided with enslaved laborers over wealthy pharaohs and eventually sent deliverance everybody say deliverance

deliverance in the form of moses who parted the seas and led them into the promised land so in my movie david is preaching he's tearing it up everybody's going crazy very pentecostal tongues and stuff even though they're baptists it's my movie and then the congregation together will sing one of our people's most powerful hymns okay so the song was kirk franklin's revolution i can't play it now for licensing reasons, but you should go listen to the chorus and then laugh, laugh, laugh, and then come right back. Okay, and then the American Revolution arrives in Silver Bluff. In 1779, they hear that the red coats are coming, and David George's enslaver, he just runs

away. He leaves everybody. He's like, I'm out. They're like, oh my God, okay. And now our ancestors and all of you have some more decisions to make. Okay, so black folks are meant to be in this information black guy. out at this point in time. And slavers worry that all the talk of all men being created equal will give them ideas. But there are all kinds of whisper networks across plantations. For example, black folks who were forced to deliver the mail, these are like the number one information takers.

They like drop off the mail to the white folks and then you go to all the black folks and you're like, here's the word. Come on, man. So this is what's been going on. And maybe that's how everybody heard what was happening in Virginia in 1775, Lord Dunmore. governor of Virginia was like, okay, enslaved people. I proclaimed that if you fight for the British, you'll be free. A guy named Harry Washington from a plantation called Mount Vernon was like,

so he tried to escape this plantation before, but his enslaveer, George Washington, had hunted him down and dragged him back. But then work gets out about Lord Dunmore's Emancipation Proclamation, and Harry escapes for good. He dons a red coat, he fights for the British. There was also this other guy. that everybody calls Colonel Ty. He escaped slavery in New Jersey

and joined the British where he got command of a guerrilla unit specializing in raids, ambushes, and assassinations. The papers say that men like him serve in uniforms with liberty to the slaves written across their chests. Now maybe you're wondering how anyone knows

that the British will actually free them after the war, like they said that they would. Like, why would our ancestors believe in them? And the answer is, because the British promised. It's time for major decision number two. Oh, come on now. Who is going? Come on, no.

Are you going to fight for the British loyalists, or are you going to fight for the American patriots? So. Ooh. But the promise of fighting for the British is that they will free you. The Americans have promised no such thing. I mean, this is easy now. No one would you know then.

This is an easy choice. Okay, what's going to be? You fight with the British. Fighting for the British? No one should know then. Oh. Right? That's a resounding bell.

That's a resounding. Okay, what about you, Parker? What are you going to do? Oh, I promise being free? Yeah. You're going to go with the British. What is the pro-American argument in this case? I mean, I don't know.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can work some more for free. Is anybody and there's no judgment? This is a safe space. Is anybody fighting, is going to stay with the- judgment. No, there's not.

Is anybody going to go with the Americans? Okay. Okay. Whoa. Hot take. Hot take. Exactly. Listen.

Sometimes that's how it is. All right. All right. Oh, man. We can't get into it right now from the stage. I have so many questions. Afterwards. After that's afterwards.

Okay. Five to eight thousand enslaved and free black people fought for the Americans. An estimated 15 to 20,000. black people fought for the British, including the members of Silver Bluff Baptist Church. So David George, all of them, they're fighting for the British now. So we're all together. All right. The thousands of the black folks who fought for the Americans.

Yeah. Do we know anything about what their logic was? Okay. So some of them have to do it. They're like they're enslaved and they have to. But some of them really do believe in the American cause and they feel like, okay, I want to support this. And they're hoping that they will be free afterwards.

Because the language of freedom is in. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, no. I mean. I mean, some of them did valiant things.

No, no. I mean, I don't know that much about them. It's not a story about them. Okay. So they are stationed outside of Savannah, Georgia. This is David George and Silver Bluff Baptist. They're outside of Savannah, Georgia, with the British. And when they're there, they run into Brother Lau.

This is of the God digs laborer's message. They're also happy to see each other. I like to imagine some of America's first two black. pastors and their congregation just sticking really close together as they navigate the horrors of war. They're keeping each other encouraged. But then in 1781, the British surrender at Yorktown, and they all learn they'd pick the losing side. You knew it. You heard, you knew how, I mean. Saw Hamilton. We know how it goes. You saw Hamilton. Yeah. America and Britain meet up to negotiate their divorce. George Washington is like, I want all of my property back, including Harry Washington and all

those black loyalists give them back to me. Sir Guy Carlton, the lead negotiator for the British, it's like, well, actually, the black loyalists are technically free because we promised them already. Once they came over, once you got to their lines, you were free. You just had to fight for them. So they're like, there's nothing I can do. I can't re-enslave them because they're free now. So they say that it's about honor, but the British know how crucial slavery is to the country's economic model. And so they also just want them to lose, you know? George and Guy fight and fight, but eventually Sir Guy Carlton agrees to a compromise. He's like, okay, so listen, I'm going to take a bunch of loyalists, including the black ones, up to Nova Scotia, which is the nearest British colony that hasn't betrayed us.

We're going to tally up their value, and then we're going to, like, send you a check. George Washington is like, I know that you're not going to pay us for them. And Guy Carlton is like, GW. I promise. So word goes out to the black loyalist that if they can, make it to New York City, find the right location, get their name and a ledger called the Book of Negroes, collect a certificate of freedom, proving their military service, make it onto a ship. They can stay free. Easy peasy. Yeah, that's all you got to do. David George, Phyllis, and Silver Bluff Baptist are back in South Carolina when this plan is announced. So I'm sure everyone's stressed.

But then our charismatic survivor gets word. Somebody's like, actually, David, there's a boat that will take you from South Carolina to Nova Scotia from here. here, but you got to move. Okay. So you got the hookup. In the movie, David and Phyllis tell everybody to get ready to leave for Nova Scotia right now. At this point, this is like going to another state. It's another one of the colonies. So they're not like, oh, my God, Nova Scotia is just like, oh, okay, a 14th colony, whatever.

So that's what they're doing. Get ready, get ready, ready, is what he's saying. And then him and Phyllis, they're back in their tents. They're packing. They're getting ready to go. Then they get like a little tap, tap, tap on the door. It's Brother Lyle and some of the folks from Silver Bluff Baptist, and they say, Brother David, we're not going to Nova Scotia.

Sorry, but though. Brother Lyle found a ship that will take him and his people to Jamaica. Oh. That was like the weather thing in Nova Scotia. You know what I'm saying? It's cold up there. I was like, hey, bro, I can be free. Every black person I tell this story is like, it sounds so cold.

It's so cold. Look, haven't just gotten back from Alaska on Monday? Let me tell you, Jamaica is sound great. So for them at this time, Jamaica is also just another state. It's another colony. It's a slave colony. They know that. They know that, but maybe he's from there.

Maybe there people are from there. We don't know why, but this is where they prefer to go. And then the Silver Bluff Baptist congregation has decided to go back to South Carolina. This is the home that they know. In the movie, everyone will say, Brother David, Sister Phyllis, Nova Scotia, how do y'all know that the British aren't tricking you? How do you know they won't just re-enslave you? And David will say, because the British promised, it's time for major decision number three. Well, it sounds silly when you say.

So the choices are. Are you going to go to Nova Scotia without any of your friends, or are you going to stay in America? So the choices are Nova Scotia, which is cold. Which is cold. But you would be free. But you'll be free. They promised that you'll be free. I mean, freedom.

But you're going to Nova Scotia without all your friends? No, Scotia. You're going? Okay. Eat some lobster, you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, come on. It's decided. But wait, so, but the folks are staying in.

They're staying in America. They're going to go back to South Carolina to Silver Bluff Baptist Church. I mean, peace be the journey. I mean, good for them. There's all your people, though. These are all your people. It's just going to be you, you and your wife and your kids are getting ready to get on this boat. And then they tell you, we're all going, we're not going to go to Nova Scotia.

We're done trusting the British. We're going back to what we know. Wait, what's happening over there? You're out? You're out? She's out. Okay. Who is going to stay in America?

That's real? And who is going to Nova Scotia? Everybody's okay. All right, so y'all, you're final decisions? No, no, no, Jamaica's not obvious. Oh, Jamaica's okay, okay, okay, okay. No, no, no. I was, I was surprised how definitive it was.

No, no, no, no, just America. Have you ever asked? Like, did Harriet Tubman go to? to Canada? She did. She did. Yeah. But she went to, did she go to Nova Scotia?

To me, it is just blank coldness. It's all Canada. It's rocky, as islands. I don't know. All right, Nova Scotia. Okay. I feel like we are not going to

get the story of one year. Surprise, Nova Scotia. When the members of Silver Bluff Baptist return to South Carolina, they are likely re-enslaved, but they keep Silver Bluff Baptist going and it is still

in operation today. Are you serious? I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, look at Missionary Morgan up there. Oh my goodness. That hat is everything.

Yes. That's amazing. Oh, my God. Yes, they keep it going. When Brother Lau makes it to Jamaica, he becomes an indentured servant. Eventually he's free and he opens Baptist churches across the island that

teach countless black children and adults to read at great personal risk. They call him. The estimates, I couldn't include him in here because they're so wild. They're like, he taught 10,000 people to read. I was like, well, now, I was, oh. There's 10,000 people on the island, but you thought a lot of people that was sort of his claim to fame. After the American Revolution, 20,000 loyalists choose to relocate to Nova Scotia.

This is black and white, making them the first Americans to say, this government is crazy. I'm moving to Canada. But it's not called Canada yet. This is not an original story. Exactly. It never is. It's not called Canada yet. though. This includes

Phyllis and their kids, David George, they are among that number. They're all going. Oh, wow. All right. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. In the movie, we're going to see Sir Guy Carlton on the docks in New York City. His General Birch approaches him and hands him what's called the Book of Negroes. It contains the names and escape stories of

3,000 black loyalists. Birch will say, sir, I've totaled the value of all the black loyalists in this ledger so that you can pay George Washington back like you promised. At this, Carlton will laugh and laugh. And he'll say, imagine paying reparations for slavery. I'm not doing that.

So toss the book aside and say, I'm sure the Americans will let it go. Everybody say let it go. Let it go. You've got to say turn to your neighbor. You say turn to your neighbor. I'm so sorry, turn to your neighbor and say let it go. I will let it go.

I will. That's time for the black Catholic. At that back of service, that was nine years long. There's one thing. Okay. Here we go. too. So this is just a little fun fact, just to set the scene a little bit. When Canadian students meet the colonists aboard those ships leaving America, they do not meet them as traitors or as losers.

They know them as the United Empire loyalists, the principal genteel heroes of the American insurrection. These are the founding families of English-speaking Canada. They stood up for what they believed in despite the cost. They were classy and white, and rich and white, and educated and not poor and triumphant and white. Were they white? No, there were no black people. Don't even. We never heard of a book of Negroes.

It's just white people. Okay, back to the archives. Here we go. It's the summer of 1783. 20,000 loyalists have begun arriving on a rocky little peninsula up by Maine called Nova Scotia. That's where it is.

That's where it is. It's over there. It's shocking. Yeah. It's new. It's new. England. It's New England. Yes, yes, yes. They were called the 14th colony. They did try to get in on the American Revolution, but the founding fathers thought they were lame. I'm not going to get into it,

because that's not what this is. Okay. So it's in summer 173. The loyalists have begun arriving in Nova Scotia. There's a large white population that's already there that's mainly ex-Americans. The First Nations would call these people illegal. Everyone starts spreading out across the province, but 10,000 black and white people head to a town on the southern coast called Shelburne. Everybody says it's pretty empty. We don't know why. The loyalists best expect to arrive and receive a plot of land with rations waiting for them. The black loyalists expect all that too, plus freedom. Turn to your neighbor and say freedom. Freedom. Now, when I'm researching, I will just read like a line. It'll say so-and-so ended up here or there, and I'm like, why? I need so much

more information, but it's just not in the archive. So I don't have to imagine and do all this research. So what I'm going to tell you is like a whole imagine scenario to then explain this one line and maybe why it happened. Okay, so come with me on this journey. I mean, parts of it are real. This part's real. We know that David heads to Shelburne while Phyllis and the kids stay in Halifax, presumably until David finds work and housing for them. So the kids are up there with Phyllis. He's going down to Shelburne. So let's imagine all the boats docking, white boats start heading in the direction of Shelburne, but black folks head in the opposite direction,

fourish miles in a river away. So we're picturing David looking around, he's confused. He's like, what's going on? Then he bumps into Harry Washington, and he's like, where all the black people going? And Harry says, to the promised land, follow me. They head to a lush green community in the forest at the black loyalist name, Birchtown.

It's not the best spot in the province, right on the water near a swamp, but it's run by the elite fighters that had served under the late grade Colonel Ty, who died valiantly in battle. These men are not city planners, but during the war, they'd specialized in raids, ambushes, and assassinations. Rumor has it that when they left America, they'd kept their guns. And maybe that is why 2,000 out of the 3,000 black loyalists choose to live in Birchtown.

The intersection. Exactly, exactly. Some real killers. Exactly. They're Philly The living in Birchtown is tough The black loyalists get fewer rations and supplies Because the science of the day says that they are less human

They get to talk into the megmog indigenous people though And they learn that shellburn in the surrounding areas Were solid rock totally unfarmable The winters are brutal That's why it was so empty So they're like oh my God the British Like what are we going to do? And the megmog are like Don't worry

Okay we're going to help you out they agree to teach them some survival basics. They teach them how to build what are called pit homes, which are like you dig them into the ground and then you can build them with trees because they won't give them lumber and stuff. So they're like, if we hook it up, they start having a couple of babies.

You know how it is. The black loyalists organized work crews and safety patrols. And then I'm sure like the New England blacks are like, okay, Southern blacks, this is winter, it's coming, stuff like that. Is that? I was going to make a game with throwing those jokes.

No, right. So this is by no means a perfect scenario, but the black loyalists of Birchtown are now the largest community of free black people on the continent and likely the world outside of Africa. Really? Mm-hmm. So history has only really captured, like, how miserable it would have been there. But we'll do a little exercise here. If you had been enslaved and now you're freer, David George, and your time is your own, what do you think you would do if you were in Birchtown? How would you spend your time?

I mean, you got lobster fish I mean you're like You know what I'm saying You're fishing You know what I'm saying You could do whatever you want Right I mean

Anything you want it It's cold But you could do whatever you want it Yeah they get there in the summertime So what do you think you would do You would go fishing Oh fish all the time Straight fishing

Lofstra every day Say it less Every day Wait is capitalism Being forced it upon them I mean they have to work But like after all the horrors And all those stuff like that

What would you do with your time? My leisure time Yeah You have it for the first time ever That's right. He can read, right? He can read your song for the first time ever. That's banana. I'd find a book. Huh? What'd you say?

I'd find a book. Yeah, I don't know. And just read. I would go for the longest walks. I would just walk around. It would be so incredible because you can. Because you can. You can't get in the water though because it's too cold.

It's too cold. But maybe some of them are down. My family's from Maine and we have one black cousin who will get in the water. In the water? One black cousin. He'll do it. In the water? Is it a wild description?

It's like a pool of a bad part. The rest of us won't. But in the summertime, it's okay. It's okay. You can do it. For a couple minutes. For like a couple minutes. Yeah.

So maybe swimming, lobster. Lofster. Fishing for lobster every day. Lofes every day. Reading, walking. Okay. Unfortunately, they don't capture what they did, but I would imagine it's something like that. Okay.

A lot of, well, I'm assuming, is that they set up a church? I mean, I imagine. Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. Let's get into that. Okay. Sorry. The black loyalists are super Christians.

Oh, there you go. Religion is to them what the algorithm is to us. It is brought to them by people that you should not trust, very shady, and yet they engage, they like, they follow. This is a cognitive dissonance thing. That's so funny. It makes no sense, but everybody still ain't like. It's like crazy. Their influencers are the preachers, and the equivalent of their phones would be the Methodist Meeting House.

They turn to it for everything. This is where their kids go to school. where people get married and of course where they have church. In my movie, Pastor David George heads to the Methodist meeting house to meet with their lead pastor. So we'll see David in the sanctuary. He's waiting expectantly. And then maybe there'll be some flashbacks of Silver Bluff Baptist, Revolution, Kirk Franklin, all of that. Suddenly, an old man begins making his way down the aisle with the help of the cane.

He's blind. He says, Brother David, I'm so pleased the Lord brought you here today. but you can tell he's not pleased. David George says, Brother Moses, what a blessing, but you can tell. It's kind of not. This is Moses Wilkinson, aka old Moses.

He's a formerly enslaved minister from Virginia who'd managed to escape the British lines during the war and make it up to Nova Scotia. And the way that he preached the Exodus story is very legendary. People say he gets so into it that its congregants worry he'll have a heart attack. In the movie, David will be like,

I'm also very good at preaching that story. My congregants are also very worried about my heart when I preach it too. So then he's going to be like, hello, Pastor Moses. I think I am the perfect assistant pastor for you. And I also think that here in the promised land, black and white people should be going to church together. Moses will be like, excuse me? Interracial church is a colonial era Baptist belief.

David is a Baptist. But Moses is a Methodist, and this is a Methodist meeting house. So yes, our ancestors have just survived slavery and a war and are now some of the freest black people in the world, but Baptists and Methodists cannot just be going to church together. You know what I mean? This would be like a TikTok user and a Facebook user being like, let's be in community with one another. This is not going to work. Some of them are.

There it is. Exactly. This is what it is. So I picture old Moses telling David, your application for the ministry is denied. This here is Methodist country and mark my words, black and white people going to church together will only lead to trouble. Oh, Moses.

It's time for major decision number three, four, four. Okay. If you were David George, would you rather live in Birchtown with your people but you cannot do the thing that you love, which is preach, or would you rather move to Shelburne, which is where all the white people are,

but maybe you can do what you love. there. How much would you sacrifice for a dream? If you would stay in Birchtown, let's hear it. I know you're shaking the baby too. Hey baby. Where was the lake? Where was the water? Okay. So the majority of the room is staying in Birchtown. Gene Parker, where are you going? I'm staying in Birchtown. You're staying in Birchtown? I think I'm staying in Burstown, too. You stayed in Burstown.

All right. Let me tell you what happens. David. Oh, David. David. I swear to God. David. Okay.

So there's only one line in the archives. This will get to that sentence? All this is for this one sentence. Yeah, yeah. David George chooses to live in Shelburne. Come on, man. He's like, oh, I got a career to me. Man, come on, man.

He really likes preaching. That is. He likes preaching that much? He likes it that much. This is so funny. You guys are very cute. There's going to be so much drag on his life, so much unnecessary, like. We just got to happy.

Yes, I'm saying? It's true. It'd be one thing if it, come on, man. Come on, my career. You're creating new problems for yourself when you just got out of a massive. It's true. It's true. All right, let me tell you about Shellbird. So our ancestor heads there and finds out that the British have prepared nothing.

There is no infrastructure. There is no housing. Who could have foreseen? Everybody is living in tents. In modern terms, this is fire festival. Clam shell with the messed up sandwiches? Yeah, exactly. The sandwich thing.

Yeah. Put that orange cheese on it. Like, what is this year's version of Jarl? What is this year's version of Jarlal? Okay, well, actually, it's not Jarlal. But the man who has, he's in charge of getting the water, you know, is a bureaucrat from Boston named Benjamin Marston. So the governor of Nova Scotia, he took that job as like more of a retirement gig.

So he was like, Marston, I'm going to empower you to handle all of this. Oh, Lord Jesus. And he's like, make sure that. nothing goes wrong. I don't want any trouble. And then he goes off. He goes golfing or whatever. So Benjamin Marston, he's like, okay, I got it. I'm in charge of this. When he sees the white loyalists, who history will again remember as noble and white and brave and white and industrious and white, he is underwhelmed. Here's what he writes in his diary. Oh, this is for you. Oh, can I read the one of you? It says your names.

Oh, okay. These poor people are like sheep without a shepherd. They have no men of abilities among them. Been there. This is him talking about... This is Benjamin Marston talking about the white loyalist. Oh, wow. Yeah. He's underwhelmed. But he's like, okay, I'm going to do the best that I can. This is what I got. I do the best as I can with what I got.

So, I picture Marston showing up to work, and he is greeted by thousands of war-weary, unhoused ex-Americans. They're like Marston. Where's our land and our ration and our jobs? Also, we want income equality in this colony, but there better not be any racial equality. See, who could have foreseen? And he wants to be, he wants to preach to these folks.

Marston is like, okay, first of all, good morning. Next, I have three announcements. Number one, we are going to give you your land, but it has to be assigned one at a time. So can y'all form like a 10,000 person line, rich people to the front, obviously. Announcement number two. We were going to bring your food rations in by C from Halifax, but Then American pirates kept raiding our boats. So now we got to bring it in by land.

And that is going to require us to build roads through just miles and miles and miles of forest. It's going to take a really long time. I hope you can die it or whatever. And then announcement number three, when the black loyalists were enslaved, they were forced to be carpenters and construction workers and civil engineers. A lot of the white guys, they're just poor ex-farmers. This is not their skill set. This is not their skill set.

Yeah. They were like shoemakers and stuff. So, what? I'm scared that they're about to do free labor. No, well, here's it is. They're trying to build a metropolis. And so Marston is like, as you can imagine, all the business dudes of Shelburne have decided to give all the jobs to the black loyalists.

And they're just going to pay them next to nothing. Please remember that this is not my fault. That's the end of the announcements. The white loyalists are furious. They're like, this sucks Marston, and it's all your fault. and then they open a bunch of taverns and get wasted in them, which is why out-of-towners come to call them

the dancing beggars of Shelburne. So you've got all these white people who don't have jobs. No jobs. You don't want racial equality. Don't want racial equality. They have no skill set. They're good farmers, but the land's unfarmable. Yeah, so this is the situation.

David heads to the part of Shelburne where black people live, which has been creatively called Blacktown. I don't know who names about that. If black people named it that, then I'm fine. Yeah, exactly right. It didn't, then it sucks. It was like that juice.

What you mean about that? So Blacktown is also all tense, and it sounds like here David George confronts the enormity of the choices that he has made. He's separated from his family. Food is scarce. The white loyalists have dreamt up

what we will come to call Jim Crow laws and they're forcing them on the Blacktown residents. Was this deliverance? I'm going to have you read what happens next. All right, all right, all right. I began to sing the first night at a camp. Black people came from far and near to listen. I kept on every night in the week.

Then I appointed a meeting for the first Lord's Day, close by the river. A great number of white and black people came, and I was so overjoyed, with having an opportunity once more to preach that I could not speak for tears. So he's back in business. My career. He's back then. A white guy gives him some land. and the community builds him a Baptist meeting house.

So now he's got his own. Black and white people start attending, and he starts baptizing folks left and right. Then the governor hears about David George. He shipped rations, granted more land, and Phyllis and the kids are sent from Halifax to finally reunite with him in Shelburne. Okay.

David and Phyllis have homes constructed on their land for members of their congregation, and they appoint church elders. The pews sound full. David is like we are so back. All right. It's summer, 1784. Our ancestors have been in Nova Scotia for about a year.

So this has been the scenario for about a year. The British government has felt... They got through the winter. After winter, they made it. Some of them did freeze. But a lot of them made it. Most of them made it. The British government has failed to live up to its promises for about a year.

I guess the loyalists could have united to hold their government accountable, but instead they turn on each other. Of course. Rich versus poor, Baptist versus Method. Methodist, unemployed versus employed. So that's white versus black. And all the while, more and more loyalists keep pouring into Shelburne. So this is like your classic powder keg situation. These are white loyalists to come into the show. These are white and black loyalists. Just keep coming. Yeah. Because this is like the spot. People still haven't gotten word that you can get land here. It's just not good land. Okay. So one day in July 1784, David George and his congregation meet up at the Baptist meeting house. We're picturing excitement in the air because. today is baptism Sunday. Okay. Yeah, I don't know if it's Sunday, but like the vibe is that it's like singing and rejoicing

all white. You know how it is. Do y'all do? No, okay. I don't know. What do you wear? I want the church in tents. Like, you know what the same thing?

That's it. You could not have done that for the gospel church. So we're imagining everybody heading on down to the river to witness people be reborn. Now, the gossip around Shelburne is that an out-of-town couple named Mr. and Mrs. Holmes have traveled to the city specifically to be. baptized by the fame David George. Mr. and Mrs. Holmes are white. That fact might be why a group of white loyalists who are likely out of work and broke

also head on down to the river. So everybody's there. Oh, boy. I'm picturing the couple David George stepping into the water while Phyllis keeps one eye on them, the other eye on the white loyalists. The vibe is tense. David baptizes Mr. Holmes first and everything goes fine. No reports of trouble.

Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Then Mrs. Holmes steps up. Can you read David's account of what happened next? Mrs. Holmes' sister laid hold of her hair to keep her from going down into the water. Okay, so this is what you have to picture. White women thrashing about in the river. Oh.

Yeah, because one doesn't want the others to be baptized by a black man. This is probably what this is about. And so somebody calls the law. So maybe Benjamin Marston shows up. He's rolling his eyes. David says that they're all told. like the lady says she wants to get baptized, let her get baptized. So Mrs. Holmes is baptized, and then everyone leaves.

David George will be asked to give an account of this event later in life, and here's what he says happens next. Y'all will go back and forth on this one. Just like it worked. Several of the black people had houses upon my lot, but 40 or 50, the spanded soldiers came with the tackle of ships and turned my house in every one of their houses quite over. the meeting house they would have burned down had not the ringleader of the mob prevented it.

So these white loyalists have formed a mob and they've destroyed David's home and the homes of those living on his land, but not the Baptist meeting house. And here's how David responds. I continued preaching. They came one night and stood before the pulpit and swore how they would treat me if I preached again. I stayed and preached. The next day they came and beat me with sticks and drove me into the swamp. after the mob chases David into the swamp they spread out across black town looting rioting attaching ropes to homes and ripping them down attacking any black loyalist in sight benjamin marston writes about it in his diary riot today the disbanded soldiers have risen against the free negroes to drive them out of town because they labor cheaper than they the soldiers David George, Phyllis and the kids escape with the rest of Blacktown to the one place they hope they'll be safe

fourish miles and a river away now most of Black Nova Scotia is in Birchtown and likely bracing for attack and here's what the mob would have known about their community to get there they would have to make it across a river through a lush green forest and swamps and undoubtedly all along the way

there would be black men waiting for them because of kill us Men like Harry Washington who'd escaped America's commander-in-chief and fought with the words liberty for slaves written across his chest. Men who served in Colonel Tye's elite guerrilla unit and specialized

in raids, ambushes, and assassinations. And rumor has it that when the veterans of Burstown left America, they kept their guns. The rioting continues for 10 days. The white loyalists carry out attacks against government officials, the wealthy, and each other. Blacktown is completely destroyed.

But despite all that chaos, there are no accounts of any successful attacks on Birchtown. The continent's largest community of free black people survive the Shelburne race riots, which historians cite as Canada's first and one of the continent's earliest recorded race riots. Wow. Yeah. What do you think about that? That, I mean, the collapse was, we know this obviously because we have the, you know, the benefit of 300 years, but oh my God, that was inevitable.

It felt inevitable. I was kind of like if it was going to go that way, the best case scenario. David and his family found refuge, a sucker. Right. It's also the white economic anxiety thing. Yes. It's such a through mind, right? Yes, it's huge.

There's such a naivete and hopefulness that comes from David. That, like, it never even occurred to him that something. like this could even happen. He's like, yes, white lady, let me put you into the water. Everything's going to be all right. We also got to remember that it's like, we know this now. We know this now. This is the first time that was happening. This is the first time that people are trying to negotiate what it means to be in international spaces in a post-slavery environment. Like, we know this now that this all goes. Yeah. That's not. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Because all this is about this is bigger than us. Yes, exactly. This is like in the Lord's name.

he's called to do this. Yes, yeah. All right, girl, I guess. Okay. You're like, no, you should have known. I mean, maybe he should have known. I don't know. All right.

So we're going to fast forward eight years. So now it's 1792. When we meet back up with David George and Phyllis and the kids, they have left Birchtown. I imagine in a bit of a huff because if you ever been to Black Church, you have to picture him showing up to church after being in the center of the first recorded race riot, like in Canada on the continent. So I'm like, they're like, David.

Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly what it is. It's like, oh, has the Lord told you to invite any other white people in a church today? I know Moses would have been salty. Oh, Moses is so mad. Oh, my God. They're like, yeah, we protected everybody, but like, you shouldn't have I told you.

So we don't know. The archive doesn't say anything about that. But it says that David was able to preach house to house. But in the end, he and Phyllis left Birchtown because, Gene, can you read his words? I guess. My own color persecuted me. Be your own people. So David becomes an itinerant preacher.

He's traveling from town to town, and it's popular. It just keeps growing. Everybody loves him. So let's picture him returning home from a preaching trip one day. He walks through his front door and a man is standing there in front of the fire. Phyllis says, David, we have a visitor. This is Thomas Peters. So in the movie he's going to turn around really dramatically.

He's going to say, hello, David George. I found a new true promised land for our people, and I can get us there, but I need your help. It is time to make one final decision. Thomas Peters was a rumored, he's rumored to be an African prince. Okay. Oh, right. Is this the beginning of that, too? He's the whole temp.

We was kings. This is what I did the issue Because he's technically He is a descendant from a Yoruba tribe And from like what will eventually become Nigeria So he is a Nigerian prince who needs help getting back to his kingdom I can't change that He's sent an email not like

But this is before the internet So there's not an email There's no He wasn't a scam king He's just a guy who happens to be Nigerian Who needs help Happens who actually needs a friend Happens need help getting back

But that's not his fault Okay I know I'm always like, how do I tell this to black people without losing them completely? Oh, this is my. Okay, so Thomas Peters, he's rumored to be an African prince who was kidnapped and enslaved in Louisiana. He fought for the British. Now he's here in Nova Scotia. He'd been going from town to town looking for work and land,

and in the process he's gathering news from across Black Nova Scotia. He learns that even though the loyalists were the labor force building the province, they were barely making enough money to survive. In the winter, they were freezing sometimes to death. They're starving year-round, but their biggest issue is slavery. There were enslaved people in Nova Scotia before the black loyalists arrived. The white loyalists did bring 2,000 enslaved people with them. And on top of that, their former enslavers from America were coming up to Nova Scotia

and contesting their legal right to freedom. And they're winning in some cases. And then some were just straight up kidnapping the black loyalists back into slavery. Our ancestors are being disappeared, and they're terrified and determined to stay free. So they hatch a plan, and they put Thomas Peters in charge of executing it. So here's what he does. He gets himself on a ship that's sailing to London. Not all black people know each other.

But in this case, when he gets to London, he does run into some black people that he used to know back in America. You know how it is. And so they're like, oh my God, hey, like, what's everybody? How's it going? He tells them everything. They're like, oh, no, bro, because they're turning British now. Exactly. What's up, bro?

What's up? And so they're like, we got you. We're going to help you out. They connect him with leaders of an abolitionist group called the Committee for the Relief of the Black Poor. This is a group of rich, well-meaning white people. So Thomas tells them everything, and they're like, you know what? We think that black people might always face discrimination in majority white spaces.

This is like a feeling that we have. Good guess. And so we're wondering if the best shot y'all have is to be in Africa where you'll be the majority. And we actually sent 600 black folks to a British colony called Sierra Leone to test this theory. But they all died. So somebody said it was because they needed like vaccines and a brokered piece with the native tribes whose land we stole. But we think the problem was that they weren't Christian enough. They almost got it.

Almost so close. We want to try the Sierra Leone thing again, but where are we going to find hundreds of super Christian black people who are looking to relocate right now? And Thomas Peters, he's going to look at the camera and be like, is this real life? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's good.

He'd be like Say Les. Yeah, that's with the camera. So now he's back in Nova Scotia. And in the scene, he's going to be pitching David, George, and Phyllis on getting on one more boat and traveling to Africa. Everybody's so tired. Okay, he'll be like David, Phyllis, this time is going to be so different. The British government is going to give us land, rations, and freedom from slavery.

It's going to be illegal there. Africa was the promised land all along. David, will you help me get our people on board? And I can imagine Phyllis interjecting at this point with the question that, obviously, we all have, which is how do we know that the British are going to keep any of these promises, and how do we know they're not going to sell us back into slavery? And Thomas Peters will say, well, because they promised. It is time for your final major decision.

You're David George. Are you getting on another boat to go to Africa, or are you staying in Nova Scotia? I'm going to ask the audience first before. Okay. Who is staying in Nova Scotia? You're tired. You're done. Okay.

One more boats for me. Who is going to Africa? We're hopeful. There's a few of us. Okay. What is that? Would you say like a half mat? Like a two-thirds of a third?

I think more people we're staying in Nova Scotia. Okay. Yeah, I think two-thirds. Two-thirds of a third. I'm tired. It's hot. It's not. I can't start again again.

This is, who's vaccination, so you don't have any natural immunity. You don't have any natural immunity. Yeah. You don't know, look, you've already, like, you don't know how you're going to be greeted when you get there. That's true. I don't know how it's going to go. It's true.

It's true. So what are you going to do? I'm staying in Canada. You're staying in Nova Scotia. But I know that that David and his beautiful Christian heart is like, Colonialism told me to get on this boat. But you're staying. I'm staying.

All right. Gene. Yeah, I'm saying too. You're staying. Another boat trip? You're like done. All right. Okay.

Nicole. I mean, this is the boat trip. It's about weeks. It would have taken two or three weeks. It's going to take several weeks. Also, North Atlantic, down up. Yeah. Routhtads, pirates.

Pirates. Okay. All right. I could catch you and then take you back to America. That's true. This is too risky for not enough gain. Another one for me. So we're staying in Canada.

We're Canadians now. Nicole. All right. Let me tell you what happens. David George and Phyllis decide they're in. Of course. David can't be nobody but David. It's true.

David. He's a great for. punishment. David agrees to help with promo and logistics. They tell the church influencers, the influencers tell their followers, everyone's liking, everyone's subscribing. But then, according to David, this is for Parker. The white people of Nova Scotia were very unwilling that we should go, though they had been very cruel to us and treated many of us as bad as though we had been slaves. They attempted to persuade. us that if we went away, we should all be slaves again.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Do they have that kind of power? Here's the thing. Without the skilled, cheap labor of the black loyalists, it was unsustainable. The wealthy landowners will lose their investments. Towns will fail. They'll be bankrupt. That's a personal problem.

It's true. They come up on some money, though. I mean. But they don't do that. Instead, they concoct elaborate bureaucratic roadblocks and spread conspiracy theories that everyone that goes on this voyage will be sailing back into slavery.

Misinformation. A whole misinformation campaign. That's exactly right. Nevertheless, 1,196 people board 15 ships and are out. Sounds like more would have gone if there had been room. Here's a few words about their 1792 voyage

from David George, founder of one of America's first black churches, survivor of one of the continent's earliest recorded race riots and key organizers of one of the world's earliest and largest back to Africa expeditions. Here you go. Our passage was seven weeks stormy weather. It was great joy to see the land and the high mountain in the distance. Free town, where we now live, appeared like a cloud to us. I preached the first Lord's Day and it was a blessed time. If you ended up at number 10, that's Africa, can you ring your bells, make some noise.

All right. So you are Sierra Leone, and here's your piece of the black loyalist legacy. The enslaved people of America termed black loyalists of Nova Scotia turned Nova Scotian settlers, once they arrived in Sierra Leone, were colonists. We honor them, but we can't ignore that fact. They end up having lots of beef with each other, with Africans, and with the British and each other, more church drama. But they figured out enough to make babies.

and today, their descendants are known as the Creo people of Sierra Leone who count among their number, Idris Elba and the late great Chadwick Bozeman. Nicole, you are so good. Oh, my God. Thomas Peters has a golden statue in his honor, as he did end up being their Moses who led them out of Egypt. David George continued on as a preacher, community leader, and abolitionist activist, and even Harry Washington moved to Sierra Leone, where he ended up taking a revolutionary stand against British influence in their colony. Okay, who ended up at number nine? You're in Nova Scotia.

And you thought it has to be a candidate. I messed up, y'all. I'm so sorry. It was right, David. I'm so sorry. Okay. So after the mass exodus of black loyalists, development in shellburn stalls and the town does eventually empty out. The black loyalist settlements lost half of their community to the Sierra Leone expedition, but those that remain offer refuge to other African Americans on the continent.

And the black loyalist towns become some of the final stops on the Underground Railroad. Let's go. These are the last ones. Okay. Yeah. Care people. Okay. Oh yeah, an estimated 50,000 enslaved people in America escaped to Canada via the Underground Railroad.

But like it was a secret, so nobody really knows. And then whenever I work with a lot of Canadians on this story and they're always like, can you not like make a whole thing of the Underground Railroad? I'm sure no one will have a reaction to that. Because like you guys, you're always talking about it, right? Like about how, you know, the black Canadians are descendants of American slavery's they escaped via the Underground Railroad. I was like, what?

They were like, yeah, everybody knows that. Like north to freedom. I was like, to Philly. Yeah, like, really? I'm like, Annie only went to Philly. But yeah, this is like a very kind of known thing in Canada. But I was like, I'm so sorry that I didn't know. America, it's not my fault.

That wasn't in our textbooks. It wasn't in our textbooks. It's not our fault. This is like what I'm always surprised at like Tamia and Deborah Cox are Canadian. Are they? Yes. So we're Canadian. Oh, my gosh.

I was like, wait, there are black people in Canada? To me, it's Canadian. There are so many, and we're cousins, exactly, who are not Caribbean, but they're the descend, the people who are from Canada, there's like some, I can't quote the exact number, but a significant portion of them are descendants of American slavery. Yeah. So today, Birchtown is home to the Black Loyalist Heritage Center, who've welcomed me into their archives, have been welcoming through this history since 2020.

And Graham Nickerson is the historian that I've spent the most time working on this with. He was raised in Shelburne in the 70s and 80s, And then he became a historian. He discovered through the book of Negroes that he is a black loyalist descendant from Virginia. That's amazing. Yeah, we're all family. Oh, my gosh.

Okay. Did anyone stay in America? That's right. Okay, so this is your part of the black loyalist legacy. Y'all heard this later. You got to do an audio thing. We got to explain what's happening. One person.

Yeah, you can check it with her later. So their part of the black loyalist legacy it's up for debate. There's like a little bit of a point of contention, but there is one way that the country may have commemorated them. The point of contention is around the war of 1812. It was 20 years after the black loyalist left for Sierra Leone, that conflict saw the U.S. and Britain face off again,

enslaved people fight for the British on the promise of freedom again. They escape to Canada again, only this time they're called the black refugees. Some scholars think that the Americans, possibly incensed by yet another betrayal by the people they'd enslaved, adopted an anthem with a verse that was a direct threat to the black refugees and the loyalist example that they'd followed. I know you're about to do. Others say, we can't know what the line meant. Maybe the Americans had let the escapes and the fighting for the British and all that go. Everybody say, let it go. Let it go. Here's the verse. No refuge could save the hireling and slave from the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave. And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave or the land of the free.

and the home of the brave. There's so much more that happened, but for now, that's the story of the Black Loyalists and their revolutionary quest for a promised land. You are the shit. That was incredible. You can spin a yarn. That's incredible.

How do you all feel at the end of that? What are you thinking? I'm like, spent. Spence. There's a lot of information to process. Also, like, overwhelmed. and like learn something I never would have known before, I'm thankful for you for that alone.

I just want to like the way you have synthesized all of these different things, you were probably in the crates, like just in these archives, and you managed to pull out all of these like, oh. I mean, like I feel like our ancestors' stories are so exciting. It's so exciting to talk about. I mean, I have a team that helps me synthesize because, I mean, obviously this is originally like 46 pages long.

We can't talk about all that stuff, but it's an incredible history. It's incredible. I'm excited to be able to celebrate it this year and talk about it and tell everyone. Thank you for bringing us. Of course. I'm so happy to do with you. Semi-Quincennial. Tenthennial.

Tenthennial. I'm the most of the other one again. There you go. This episode was written research, produced and performed by Me, Nicole Hill. Thank you to my play cousins over at Code Switch. That's B.A. Parker and Gene Demby. If you didn't get enough of their hilarity, you really should be listening to their show. I feel you're going to love it.

If you like this show, really, really going to like that one. That's Code Switch on NPR. As always, thank you to my A-Team. That's my day one executive producer, Adriana Ambris, and everyone. We've got a new member of the team. Some call him their favorite author. Others call him a genius.

I am very proud to call him a friend. Thank you to executive producer Jason Reynolds. Thank you to Kyle Murdoch for mixing and mastering. Thank you, Martina Abraham's Ilunga, for story editing. Thank you Chioki I Ensign for research production and voice talent, and thank you, Aselika Smith, for show art. Shout out to Aaron Jacobs and Dr. Benjamin Dalton and the whole team at the Moreland-Spengar Research Center at Howard University.

They also have an excellent podcast on the history of Howard called On the Yard, like and subscribe. Shout out to my Howard volunteers who held me down even though finals were coming up. Thank you, Ava Jackson, Zion Williams, and Marta. Thank you to Shane Lewis for managing the sound on the day of Shane. I'm so sorry that I knocked that cord out right before the show started. I'm really am very sorry. Thank you for being so chill about it. Thank you to Jim Ambuski for fact-checking.

A very special thank you to my guide through all this history, Canada's own Graham Nickerson, Black Loyalist Scholar and Public Historium. We are a completely independent show. If you would like to support us, you can join the household at our Anestorswemessi. com and get access to bonus and behind-the-scenes content and make future episodes like this one possible. So learn more about us. You can visit our AncestorsWeremesse.com.

And before I go, I'll just say, I'm a storyteller by training. I really like this curator title. So I'm a history curator, in part because of quotes like this one from Malcolm X. History is a people's memory.