Oversharing - Am I Addicted To Online Shopping?

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi face the music as listeners let them know how they really feel about the Taylor Swift concert ticket debate. Our Overshare email comes from a listener who just can’t resist the “Add to Cart” button. The Betchicist of the week goes out to an expectant mother in need as her husband prepares for a European getaway…with his mother?! A male listener writes in for advice about staying present with his more mature girlfriend. They wrap up with the Triggered scenarios of one Betch getting left out of the game, while the other gets left out of the will. Check out our latest promo codes here: https://betches.com/promos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. What's up?

How are you? I saw you got another dog. Yes, we got our second little pup. I mean, Jeff and the kids got a puppy. So cute. I get to play with it. So that's really fun. We'll see how that goes.

No, she's cute. She's doing really well so far. She's like mostly going to the bathroom outside. She's very cute. She's a playmate for Penny. So I think it's going to be good. That seems less intense than going. It's like kids, I guess, going from zero to one and going from one to two.

Right. It's less of a transition. Yeah. You're already walking one. Right. Throw on another. Leash. Right. Totally. That's exciting. I wanted to talk about, so we got a lot of feedback to our Taylor Swift debate. It's funny how many emails we've gotten about like interpersonal issues relating to

Taylor Swift tickets. Like there have been quite a few. I don't always include them because they're not that good all the time. But we've gotten quite a few emails, which is funny how this is sort of a cultural phenomenon. And there's like relationships being ruined over Taylor Swift tickets. Well, we, we typically, you and I don't disagree that often. So I'm curious to hear what everyone had to say about it. Like, I'm not saying we always agree, but like that one, I think we were kind of, you know. Right. Very much on a different page. Right. So what are the listeners thinking? I mean, I got some DMs from people who were like, I totally agreed with you. And I saw a lot of emails about disagreeing with me, agreeing with you, Naomi.

But I saw a couple in there from people who were like, people were torn. People felt very strongly however they felt. Obviously, I guess if they're writing in, they felt very strongly one way or the other. And I guess it became like a moral issue of like my character, which fine. I don't really see it that way. And I was thinking about it because I was like, you know, am I an asshole? Is that like? It's always a good thing to think every now and then.

Right. You know, just kind of a little check of myself. Am I, you know, am I bad person? Am I an asshole? And the more I thought about it, the more I like don't really think I am. Okay. And here's why. I think there's a few things going into this specific situation.

I just think like Taylor Swift tickets are not like a life saving thing. It's not like this is COVID and you are buying masks to sell them at. But people can live either way. Like, because someone, even someone who's the biggest diehard Taylor Swift fan does not mean they cannot listen to her music. She has them now in theaters. Like there are many ways to consume Taylor Swift content that I just don't feel like it's like anyone's moral responsibility to like make it so that as many people. It's not healthcare. Like it's not.

Right. Like we don't need to make sure that those in need get the most Taylor Swift. access. I just, I don't know. I just think another part of me was like, isn't it almost like a cultural issue? And I don't want to like defend myself by using society.

But I will. But I will. I feel like there's so much star worship that it's a little unhealthy. Like in a really healthy society, it's like, oh, if I can go to this concert for this person that I like, great. But if not, it's not like I, it is like a tragedy. So the guy who's buying the tickets is helping everyone else to detach from Taylor Swift. Look, I get it.

No, he's not doing any of that. He just wants money. I agree. It's not like the, it's not like the most attractive quality in someone. I think it's a little icky. But I also just like, I don't know. I just didn't think it was that bad.

No, to your point, I think there are lots of people that know someone during COVID that was like buying up all the toilet paper and like you're not going to end your friendship because you show up at their house and they have like. 17, you know, cases of toilet paper in their pantry. So I get it. It's not like a, you know, survival issue. I think my issue with it is that he had to go out of his way to get the tickets. So going, like he knew ahead of time, I can get these tickets. This is what I have to do. I have to go to the Taylor Swift fan website and sign up for a promo code. And I, and he probably knew that he wasn't

going to be using the tickets and he was going to be reselling them. So that's, if someone gave him the tickets for free and then he wanted to resell them, I could see, okay, I got these. They're mine now and I can do what I want. But the idea of going on there, pretending to be a fan, knowing what she's trying to do is prevent exactly what he's doing from happening and like skirting around the system, that's the part that I think is sketch. Right. It's like find something else to do that day other than buy tickets that you know you're not going to. It's a little sketchy. I don't, I'm not really, I guess,

another part of this is that I'm not that familiar with like how hard it is to get a pre-sale code. It's not that hard. It's not that hard, but you kind of have to, you know, the idea is that you're a fan. That's like everyone knows it. It's clear.

That's what you're supposed to, you know. I'm a fan. I'm going to go on anyway. He's working the system. I see in like a unsavory. It's, to me, I agree it's unsavory. Right. But I don't think it's friendship ending.

Yeah, I could see that. You're not, I mean, you're not like stealing food out of a starving child's mouth. You're not, again, like hoarding masks. Right. Like this group of friends will be okay. Yes. You know, I don't know. It's just not to me, it's not like an essential thing.

It would be like it would be nice thing. And so I think it's especially disgusting when people do that over things that people actually do need, like in a crisis. I think that's really obviously like morally important. I don't, I don't know. I don't see this as the same. I hear you. And look, to be honest, this is my opinion with the star worship thing.

Unless you have really good seats, you're really watching this person, whoever it is on a screen. And you're not, I mean, it's just the idea of being in the same room as a celebrity. So I do feel like it's a little bit worshipy because you're not. Not really. I mean, the seats in the way back are just terrible. You know, like I said, she looks like a like a little peg from the game of life. Right. It's like, you know.

But I will say this, over the weekend, so I've mentioned in here that Jeff is in a U2 tribute band. If anyone's in the Dallas area, it's called Pride in the name of U2. And he sounds just like Bono. It was incredible. It was really fun. So like if you want to go see a band that you love and it's not about the, you know, star worship thing. If it really is just about enjoying the music, go see a tribute band.

I mean, it was a free show. If there's any cover charge at all, it's not more than 10 or maybe $20 if you want a really good seat. And I have to say, he looks great. He looks great on stage. He's, you know, he just, he's been really like tightening up. his diet. I'm like, wow, damn, 50. He looks really good. And he sounds really. I'm fan girling. He looks good. He sounds good. If you live in Dallas, check it out. I'll be there. And I'm like,

yeah, you want to meet Dr. Naomi and get some amazing music and also maybe ask her an interpersonal question. I mean, it's funny, though, because I like really am bugging the entire time. Like, it's just such a good fun. I've seen you. Yeah. You are like, it's like, it's a kind of amazing, like, I don't know. The vibe is amazing. And I feel like you are so in particular are like, having fun changed, you know, like embodying the music. Yes. Yes.

It's a good time. It's funny because like whenever I, you know, it's not like we go out dancing all the time or like, you know, Josh or our other siblings that come to the show sometimes. I think they're like, this is the only time that they get to see me like really just feel. feeling the music and but I do that like any time I go to any kind of show I'm like I'm here that which it's such a fun experience to just you know get into it so that you know there are ways to get that vibe without having to necessarily pay like even you two tickets are like nuts you know I agree yeah so maybe that's the solution everyone can just like chill out about seeing the actual person. Right. We live in an age where I can imagine 40 years ago before there was,

you know, a million different ways to listen to a song. Like the concert was probably much more value. I don't know. Totally. There are a million ways. But again, like tribute bands are great. When they're really good, they're really good. Like it's sound, you close your eyes and it sounds like you're there. So throwing that out there. Hopefully he's playing one time when I visit. Yeah. That would be awesome. Yeah, so, okay, I acknowledge both sides of the Taylor Swift controversy for anyone who's writing and DMing and, and you know what, it's okay to disagree. I also think that's the case. It's okay to disagree. We can disagree, but I hope everyone's being nice.

I didn't read anything that was out there, but I hope whoever's disagreeing is disagreeing respectfully because you're my baby sister. And I don't want anyone being mean, even though you're wrong. You're wrong. Yeah, and that vice versa. if you disagree, if you agreed with me, then, you know, again, be civil. Yeah. Bring some class back into this country. Okay.

All right. Before we get into the emails, I did want to just let the listeners know that I have. If anyone's interested in joining one of my groups, I have some openings on Monday evening. Shoot me an email Naomi Bernstein-psych at gmail.com. If you have any interest in joining one of my groups. Check it out. know people love those groups. So I think it's a great way to get access to you because I don't think you're accepting any new individual patients, right? No, I maybe have like one spot, but it's like a

Wednesday morning, which most people can't do. But I really, I've said it on here before. I've, you know, this modality is my favorite. The groups and it's, I think because a lot of my group members heard about these openings from this show, so they're all betches, fans and I cannot say enough how amazing the community is in these groups and the women are just, it's mostly women, although I would love to have men. I've said this before and we have a male email today, which I love. I'm excited about that. But the women in these groups are just so insightful and supportive and kind and it's just a beautiful thing to see and be part of and I love it. So, working, can they email you to be part of it? Naomi Bernstein.

psych at gmail.com. P-S-Y-C-H. You guys know where to go. I'm sure those will fill up fast. So, if you're listening, get on it. So let's get into our emails. If you guys have a voicemail that you want to leave us, you can call 646363-6294 or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. But I'll read our first overshare. Are you ready? Let's do it. Okay. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I absolutely love this podcast and recently subscribed. Thank you for all the great content you put out. I have a problem that I think a lot of your female listeners may be able to relate to. For some context, I'm 27 years old and currently in a graduate school program studying anesthesia. It's incredibly rigorous. I'm either studying or putting people to sleep in the

operating room most hours at the day, seven days a week. Eventually, I will have a rewarding career that I love, but I'm pretty miserable and tired at this point in my education. Recently, I found myself frequently shopping online. In this day and age, you can't escape the advertisements on Google, Instagram, Facebook, and podcast specifically targeting all of your interests. Like many other women, I love following influencers and celebrities on Instagram to see recipes, wellness trends, travel recommendations, et cetera. But inevitably, I end up purchasing stuff I don't necessarily need. I'm consciously aware that I'm overspending in this category and it causes me a lot of anxiety. Because I'm in grad school, I don't currently have an income and shouldn't be

spending any portion of my savings on news are genes or a hair growth supplement, even even if an influencer has a 15% off code at checkout. This lack of restraint has even caused me to panic about my future spending habits. Am I going to blow my kids' college fund in 20 years because I can't say no to the simplest of online marketing employees? I told my therapist my concerns and she replied, You should really have more grace with yourself. School makes you so unhappy and leaves you with very few resources of dopamine.

Of course, you're seeking out a source of gratification. So what if you spend $100 every couple weeks or so? I understand what she means. Everything I've bought online thus far, I've worn multiple times or thoroughly enjoyed, and I haven't escalated to hoarding behavior. However, much like something such as binge eating, I feel a loss of control around shopping,

and I'm ashamed at how easily I succumb to marketing and press ad to cart. An easy answer would be to delete social media and stop listening to podcasts, but that would eliminate some of the few simple pleasures I get to enjoy in my limited free time. I would also feel so disconnected from my friends and pop culture news,

any advice on resisting targeted ads and excessive online shopping and potentially finding other avenues of gratification that are better for my bank account. Sincerely, confessions of a shopaholic. Totally get this. I think a lot of people, this happens to them unless you are very mindful of what you're doing. This is like another one of the reasons why I steer away from social media. I get it. That's not what she wants to do. She wants to stay connected. That's fine. But I do. you, it's like, you know, there's all the greatest minds in the world working on this, how to get you to buy something that you don't really need. That's like.

Right. Or even really, sometimes it's like I buy something and I'm like, I don't even know if I even really wanted that. Right. Like I bought, you know what I bought? Before we went on vacation, like many months ago, I was looking for stuff for the kids to like keep them busy and I bought. I don't know if you probably don't get ads for this.

But like it was like this learning to crochet. kit. Okay. For your kids? Ridiculous. I think it was like you get to crochet these little like creatures like little characters. So I thought maybe they would like get into it. But it was so hard. Like we started it was just it was just a stupid purchase and it was way overpriced. And when I got it, I was like, what did I? I spent $40 on like a bag of yarn and like two. little sticks. Like, it was ridiculous. So I get it. I've fallen into that, which is why I try to

stay away from from that too. But I, an idea that I have, right? One, two thoughts, if I may. One is, I get what her therapist is saying. It's not the end of the world. If the problem isn't really now, like if she sets aside a budget and she's like, okay, I'm going to put aside $100 a month that I get to spend on impulse purchases, whatever I want, right? like online shopping. Because like you've always said, or you said in the past, like somebody has a golf habit. I don't know how much that costs, but that's a lot of money. But it doesn't feel as like frivolous and stupid.

Right. It's like I'm playing a sport and I'm like, you know, hanging out with my friends. And so it feels like a little bit more of a worthy spend than, you know, whatever it is that she's spending on. Well, I think that's a great point of like her, but I guess that's the real question to ask herself. And she sort of answered it, but not really. It's like, does this actually like bring me joy? Do I actually feel good? Like there's this whole process of like this online shopping make me feel good or not really.

Because if it does make, I can understand the therapist thought if it's like, if she's like, I actually really enjoy this and like I get a lot of use out of these items and it's fun for me. Then I agree there's like some slack to be cut for herself. But if it brings her almost like more anxiety than not or she finds herself purchasing stuff that she doesn't really feel like she really even wants or she gets it and doesn't feel that good when she gets it. I think that's a different story. Totally. And that's why I think when she mentioned this idea, I want her to catch herself of like, well, if I'm doing this now, am I going to blow my kids college fund? Like, don't even turn that one off. Shut that thought out. That is not a thing.

Just because you're doing it now doesn't mean you're going to do it then. I would just say, okay, if I'm really not enjoying it now, then don't do it now. Or if I really can't afford to do it now, don't do it now. But don't not do it because you think it's going to turn into something different down the road. That's just like too much forward thinking, too much fear-based thinking. But if you really, she may really not be able to afford it now, which sounds like. All right. She did mention that, right.

She doesn't have any income. Yeah, it sounds like maybe she can't truly afford it now. or if you're going into debt over it or you're having some consequences on it, then you can take some action. I think one thing is maybe have like a note on your phone of like things I'd like to get. And then when you see it, it's like I tell my kids when they, this is my trick when they go to the store and they ask me for a thing. I'm like, okay, why don't you pick it up and hold it and we'll take a picture of you holding it.

And then we. when we go home, we can look at the picture. And if you still really want it, we can save up for it or you can get it for your birthday. And we'll keep it in like a file of things that you'd like to get for your birthday. So that kind of makes them feel like they're not like just giving up. Like they're still feeling like they're kind of keeping this thing in mind and they might get it at some point. But they're not getting it right now. So I love that.

I do that too sometimes with myself. But I don't take a picture with stuff. But like sometimes if I like see an online ad or I get like a marketing email for like a big sale and I put a bunch of stuff in my cart and this actually sometimes it works. Sometimes I think I thought of it because it happened to me where like I didn't have my credit card on me and I didn't like feel like going and like finding my credit card and like putting it in. So then I'm like oh, I'll just do it later when I'm like already around my credit card. And then right when you're around the credit card, you're kind of like don't even I forgot I even wanted this. Like I forgot like the high of buying it in that moment. has left. And sometimes it doesn't. And that's kind of when I know that I actually wanted it. There you go. You know? So just creating a little bit of space, I think, between the impulse and the actual action, I think can help you. I think it will help you reduce a little bit of the spending and realize what you really want. Or is it just, I'm tired. I'm lying here. I'm scrolling. it's so easy to just double click the side button and purchase this thing that I don't like it just

they make it so easy to just impulse by it. You literally have to move like two millimeters. And your credit card information is like saved on your phone or right. You know. It's I think have a file where you put all the things you want and then like when you want to reward yourself or like if you really can't stop thinking about that thing, you can come back and buy it. So try that.

And that way you can kind of have a middle ground where you're not telling yourself, I'm never buying any of this, but you're also creating a little bit of space and patience, like you said, to decide when you come back to it, you might be like, like if I did that with that crochet kit, I never would have bought that crochet kit.

I was like, I'm going on a plane ride. I'm going on this thing. I need this. And I was probably anxious in that moment of like how they were going to handle the time or whatever and just went ahead and, did it. But if I went back to it even an hour later, I'm sure I wouldn't have bought it. Yeah. And I'm a sucker for like sales too. If I'm like, if something is marketed as like being

cheaper for a limited period of time, then I can convince myself that I need it. Even if I don't. And something I like need to just, I sometimes repeat to myself as like, just because it's on sale doesn't mean like it's additive or that you need it. It just happens to be like less money. Yes. Totally. It's so true. Good luck. I think everyone deals with this. And I think that's a great first step is just give yourself a little space. It'll be there tomorrow. Let's do a betcha assist. Do you want to read it? Yeah, I'll read this one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, long time listener, first time caller, you up with benefits and oversharing subscriber and could not get through my weeks without the Betches podcast. Awesome. This issue could have easily been submitted to you up because it's a messy relationship one, but this is the best of both worlds because I need Jordana to weigh in and I believe it really needs Dr.

Naomi's professional opinion because I'm utterly lost. I fully understand that detailed background is crucial to diagnosing a problem or providing insight, but I firmly believe this one is massively fucked up at face value and this email is already long enough. My husband is 39 and I'm 43. We've been together for nine years, married for five. We have a four-year-old and I'm currently 11 and a half weeks pregnant with baby number two via IVF due in April. We chose the IVF route because of my age and thankfully we're lucky

to have fertility insurance through work. I know Judana can relate to IVF struggles and let me tell you the struggle is real. Cancelled retrievals, canceled transfers, shots, patches, pills, and Viagra. Yes, Viagra. All this to say, this pregnancy was not unplanned. Now to the issue at hand. I've never had a good relationship with my mother-in-law. She's overbearing, unhelpful, and insanely judgmental. She lives six hours away, yet still manages to calm every one to two months and stays for at least four days at a time. I always thought she was a problem, but I'm very slowly realizing that it's not her.

The problem is my husband and his displaced responsibility to her. She was a single mom and his dad has not been in the picture since he was four. He won't speak of it. Therapy alert. So I can appreciate his admiration and respect for her, but at almost 40, it's unhealthy and over the top. She turned 60 in 2022, and since then he has wanted to take her to Italy, which was our honeymoon trip. She has never expressed an interest, never desired to travel abroad, and is in no way Italian, so there's no dying relatives to visit one last time.

The original plan was for all of us to go, but we decided to put off the trip until our IVF journey was complete. In mid-August, at six weeks pregnant, my husband had announced that this was the only time for him to take her. Before, God willing, my words not his, the baby arrives. I was shocked and speechless, just sat there with nothing to say. There was no concern, comment, or regard for leaving a high-risk pregnant, full-time working wife and his four-year-old child. Not even a, how do you feel about this? Will you be okay? I had hoped he would come to his senses and think better of it, but alas, at seven weeks pregnant, he booked their first class tickets for $20,000, 11-day trip to Italy. I've been mortified, devastated, and saddened at the very prospect of any spouse being okay with

leaving a pregnant wife and toddler to go on an international vacation with his fucking mom. That's all I'll say you really feel. When I presented him with the fact that he has no concern for our well-being, that we are not his priority. He completely dismissed it and did not even have the decency to say, but I am concerned about you and our child, not once. It was all about him wanting to take his mom on a trip of a lifetime and make memories together. Fuck off. I still don't even know how I'm going to tell my friends and family that

yay, we are pregnant. And oh, by the way, at 13 weeks, my husband's leaving on a European vacation without us. Side note, the second trimester timing was a complete coincidence. He never considered any of it. In fact, he was actually going to go earlier, but the flights were more expensive. Other than couple's therapy, which is already scheduled, is there anything else I can do at this point or is it really that I am the crazy pregnant hormonal one. Thanks so much in advance for both of your sage advice and helping me navigate this mess signed ditched and devastated fetch. Okay. This woman feels quite strongly. Yes. This is an interesting thing because like I feel like this is sort of one of those things that on its own doesn't sound that horrible. But like the way that

she is describing it sounds like she uses the term devastating a number of times which again I understand her concerns with like she's a high risk pregnancy she doesn't want to be alone like I can totally see I think that her concerns are valid but I do feel like devastated does feel a little intense for this situation to me right I you know I I think what feels probably more stating is what sounds like. And again, I'm not there. We haven't gotten his side of the story, which I would love to get, that he just seemed to have zero regard for her feelings in this or how, you know, I think anytime a parent, I think it's pretty uncommon for one parent to leave for 11 days. That is a long time. Without bringing the family or thinking of bringing the family or just

acknowledging that that's kind of a long time for a leisure trip. If it's a work trip and you have to do it, that's one thing. But I think it's pretty uncommon for one person in a household with small children to leave for 11 days with like no acknowledgment. Right, without asking what like that would. And again, I don't think again, if she were okay with it and, you know, this was something that he really wanted to do and they had talked about it, I don't think like that would be the most insane. thing I've ever heard in my life. Right. If he handled this and it goes to show him, he doesn't seem to be the best at talking about his emotions. I think if he came to her and said, look, I only have one parent. I'm afraid of losing her. She just turned 60. It's scaring me.

I want to make sure that we have this time together. I'm feeling anxious about whatever, like that she's lonely or if he would have come to her with a little bit more of like the context of what this is and why and whatever, they probably could have had a conversation. And she might have been like, I get it. I want you to have time with your mom. Why don't you guys go to Maine for the weekend? And that would feel better, you know, to me.

And then maybe after we're done with IVF, we can all go to Italy or just some kind of compromise where she's like, I want you to have time with your mom. What is it that you're looking for? How can I support you in getting what you want? Like he wasn't really including her in the emotional piece of what he's trying to do and just was kind of like, I'm putting my head down and I'm running through this tunnel and I'm not looking back. And I think that's the part that felt really hurtful.

Yeah. And I totally get that. I think this is like, this to me is a signal of, and she said she didn't want to give the entire background in the interest of time. To me, this is indicative of some other probably larger looming issues in their relationship. The way she even just talks about him, it doesn't sound like there's a lot of like mutual respect and mutual like understanding of each other. You know, like saying like I used to think it was his mom. He's the problem. Like it doesn't sound like she particularly likes him at that moment.

And again, I don't know. It sounds like there's a lot more background to this. Maybe that's very warranted. But it seems like she's coming at it from a. a place also of like they're they're both sort of like one track minded a bit in this sense because she even says when she says I presented him with the fact that he is no concern for our well-being that we are not his priority so like she's presenting that as a fact right right that's an intense fact right which and then she's like he dismissed it okay so that's like sort of what I would have

expected from and again I'm not saying she's not justified in feeling as though he's not prioritizing his family and feeling as though he has no concern for their well-being and how it would feel that way. But saying that you're presenting it as a fact to him, like, what do you think he's going to say? Right. I think he's going to say like, yeah, totally agree. Like I do not care about you guys at all. Right.

Like. Yes. I agree. I think the communication here is the issue. And look, I hate to say it by the time she hears this, he's probably already going to be on the trip and perhaps even back from the trip. because I think it was, sounds like it's happening like a week and a half from the time that she wrote this email. But I do think moving forward with your relationship, maybe if you, the listener, can lean in with a little bit more, as we always say, curiosity and like softness and just kind of saying, this feels to me like a lot, you know, leaving me and I, you know, I'm nervous because I'm scared.

Yeah. Yes. You know, to be alone if something. goes wrong and this is how I, like instead of focusing on the action and the behavior to let him know how she feels and say, I'd love, there must be something really strong emotionally going on for you here as well. And I'd love for you to tell me more about that, you know, and then maybe he'll open up about his feelings about his mom. And maybe he just doesn't feel entirely safe because he knows how she feels about his mom and that his mom was kind of the problem for a long time. So maybe

he doesn't feel safe saying, I really love my mom. I'm afraid, you know, I'm having fears of her mortality or like, I just, whatever, I don't know what it is, whatever it is that she creates a safe space for him to talk about it. So he doesn't just have to be like, all right, I'm booking a flight. I'm leaving for 11 days. This is what I'm doing, no discussion, which I think is his way of saying, like, I want to handle whatever these feelings that I'm having are and I'm just going to do what I have to do. and I'm not going to open up about the deeper parts of it.

So I do think it would be good for their relationship to kind of get to the bottom of what this is about for both of them in conversation. Yeah. And it sounds like they have some couples therapy sessions coming out. So it might be especially I think it's hard to like the way you're saying with like the way she should approach it. I think if that's not generally like your style, it sounds like from her fuck off statement that that is not necessarily like her default.

fault mode is to be like, right. And what makes you want to go to Italy? Right. You know, when I'm 13 weeks pregnant. Right. Taking care of the kid. Like, yeah. That probably could be.

I think she's very, she's doing the right thing. They're getting like someone who's trained in this kind of communication to help them get into it. Let's do some intentions. I will read them. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I love the pod. It's so therapeutic and much appreciated gift to your listeners. I'm a 33-year-old man falling for a 39-year-old woman.

I have a history of fixating on something superficial in a partner that turns me off. For example, weight, an unsightly scar, etc. I might like the person, but hem and ha about how important this one thing is, and I ultimately take my inability to drop the thought as a sign that she's not the match. With this woman, we've been clicking on all cylinders, and I'm super attracted. The superficial thing I'm fixating on with her, though, is age. Funny thing, I really like how mature she is. But I worry that if this relationship becomes long term, she'll physically age ahead of me,

that fertility will be hard, that our dating timeline needs to move faster, that she's only a few years away from menopausal sex problems, and that I'll lose attraction. I don't think about it when we're together, but when I'm at home and bored, I've been scrolling Reddit threads from people with similar concerns or Googling celebrity couples with younger husbands, who so often leave older wives. rationally, I want to stop worrying. If the relationship continues to feel great, let it be great. It's not even that big of a gap.

Can you share an intention to help quiet the worries? How do you know when a concern about a relationship is a stoplight or just something to accept as you move forward? Sincerely, please remind me that it's just a number. I feel like a lot of men tend to do this, especially like, you know, when you see men who are like a little older and single, it's because they're sort of like fixating a lot of the time on little flaws and women too. I think women do this also. So I don't want to just gender it. But this is a very common thing that I think I hear or see.

Totally. Well, I think it's sort of like your mind takes over and tries to find the thing that you can pick, that you can see that there are symptoms of to focus on because then it feels like you have control about what if and then what is his big fear i'm going to end up with a woman that i'm not sexually attracted to perhaps i think that's his maybe his big fear um or whatever identifying for him what is your fear and then recognizing that you're picking out a symptom that you can currently see to try to control whether or not you're going to end up in that situation and i will just say that life, if you're going to be with someone, if you are looking for a lifelong partnership,

you are going to have to be willing to change your mindset, accept certain things that are not ideal and make it work. There is not going to be a person, because right now he's fixating on these symptoms that he can see, whether it's, you know, oh, she gained weight or she has this scar that I'm not attracted to or in this situation. Right. What's going to have?

these are just the ones I hate to say this and not to scare you, but those are just the ones that are poking their heads out. Like there's lots of stuff that could happen that you have no idea about. I mean, you could have a partner that develops a terminal illness. You can have a partner that becomes an alcoholic. You can have a partner that decides that she wants to move abroad and you don't want to move abroad. I mean,

and there's a million things that could happen that could make a relationship difficult. So when you're deciding on a life partner, you have to accept that person and then whatever that person grows into as you spend the rest of your lives together. So I get his concern because, yes, all those things that he said might happen. And yes, they probably are going to have to be on a little bit of a faster timeline than if he was dating someone that was 33 instead of 39. Yeah, that's probably true. And some of these things are probably true. but it's almost like the first overshare that we heard where she's like, well, if she was like, well, I'm okay now with my spending, but I'm afraid I'm going to blow my children's college fund.

It's like, okay, well, that's one thing you can be afraid of. How about being afraid that like you might not be able to have children or how about being afraid that one of your children might, you know, not get into college or, you know, like she's picking a thing that there's a little tiny symptom of to play it forward and worry about that's probably not going to even happen. And so I think he should just kind of relax into the certainty of what he has now, which is like, I know that I have this person. I'm super attracted to her.

We have a great time. It doesn't sound like he wants to break up with her. It sounds like he's really enjoying the relationship. It's like a self-sabotaging intrusive thought. Yes, because he's trying to control the unknown. And that's going to lead you to a bunch of random symptoms. Like when you get married, you can feel pretty. sure that day, but like, you don't know what's going to happen. Like, I've seen couples, one person

loses a parent and it puts them in a tailspin and they start getting depressed and they have different, you know, mental health issues that come along with that. You can't control for all of this. So you just have to kind of say, this feels really good right now. I could sit here and play investigator and try to find everything that could potentially go wrong. Or you could just say, look, it's worth, you know, being supportive and being there with someone. And I would express his concerns to her that it sounds like the sex is very important to him. Fine. He doesn't want to, you know, lose attraction.

He doesn't want to have, you know, menopausal sex issues, whatever. I think he can express some of that to her and say, I would love to be able to be a partner together with you to make sure that we're maintaining this aspect of our relationship that's important to me. I think that's fair. And I think if it's said in the right way, it doesn't, it won't come off like, insulting. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I think people, you know, that's a valid concern. Totally. And there's any, you know, and I think just seeing it as like, we're together and we're going

to be partners and working through whatever comes up rather than like, I need to find a person where no issues are going to come up. Right. Especially because like issues will come up with you. And whoever you marry is going to have to accept that anything that can happen with you might happen. Like if they think about your life or anything, any baggage that you bring and everyone has their own thing to an extent, I would imagine. So it's like there's also, I think sometimes you don't think about when you've been single for a while. No, everyone always thinks that they're like the most incredible person to live with or be with or whatever. And that, you know, they're worried about them having to deal with someone else. Right.

Right. You know, everyone has to compromise and even things that that you're doing. So I think that like, 100%. If you recognize that, sometimes it gives you a little more compassion, I think, for the other side. Right. It's tough. And I agree. I think a lot of people when they're picking a partner and they've been single for a long time, they've seen like so many things, what goes wrong to end a relationship. And then it starts to be like this big box of clues or like a big duffel bag of clues that you have to like, schlep around with you wherever you go, like your baggage of like, oh, well, this went wrong. So let me look out for this or this went wrong and let me look out for that. When I think the better mindset is saying, like, can I communicate with this person to work

through whatever comes up together? And if you're attracted to her now, everybody's going to age. Everyone's going to get older. Everyone's bodies are going to change. So, you know, maybe either you aren't in for a long-term partnership, which is fine, if that's what you don't want, then I would let her know for sure. But if you're, if having a long-term partner is worth it for you, then it's worth, you know, saying like I have to change my mindset to say I, it's worth it for me to work through these feelings, issues, whatever it is with somebody else.

So the intention that I wrote for him is I will trust in the certainty of now rather than the fear of the unknown. Because any partner that you choose, you don't know. how they're going to change. You don't know how this is going to, you know, it's just you have to kind of be like, right now, this is, I feel good about this and I'm going to lean into that. Right. And if things change to the effect that it makes you so unhappy or different, you're no longer happy, then you have the ability to make decisions at that point.

Right. I think a lot of guys, I don't know this for a fact that I'm just saying this right now, but like I think a lot of men, maybe some amount of women, I don't know, but a lot of men are afraid of like getting married, being in the relationship, losing sexual attraction, and having to break up a whole family and marriage over that, which feels kind of douchey. Right. So what do you say to that? I mean, I think part of it is like realizing that you have, if you, if it's worth it, I think you have to ask yourself, is it worth a long, is a, what am I getting out of a long term partnership and is it worth it to have to work through sexual issues together?

Right. That will come up probably inevitably in any relationship. Eventually anyway. I mean, anyone who's, you know, in their 70s and 80s isn't having the same sex life that they were when they were 20. And doesn't look the same as they did when they were 20. Right. Oh, by the way, we have to talk about the Golden Bachelor.

I was just thinking that. Maybe we'll save that for next time. But I was thoroughly entertained by the first episode. Same. I really enjoyed it. So, but yeah. So I'm even looking at that and he's like super attracted to all these women and like you can, it's a mindset.

So I, but it's not going to come necessarily automatically. It might be something that you have to work towards a little and you have to weigh it. For some people, a long term partnership is not, the benefits of that are not worth the effort that it would take to work through the struggles that arise in the relationship. And that's fine. So sometimes just figuring out, like, what am I looking to get us? Am I going to have, do I really want that, you know, the home with the kids and coming home every day and eating dinner with people and having that family time?

And do I want that enough? Because there are going to be tough times. And I think like there's, I mean, we're sort of ingrained in us that everyone should want that and then if you don't want that there's like something wrong with you but i think a lot of people don't want that and if you can own that and like you know go against the grain and do what actually makes you happy i think you sort of you know make a lot of other people happy to because you're not pretending yeah totally and there's you know even the uh the website that like field app you know like there are other people out there that might also not want like your stereotypical committed

relationship. So I think if that's not something you want, you can find companionship in the way that you want it and you don't have to go there if you don't feel like that's something that is that important to you. But I think it is worth figuring that out. How badly do I want a committed lifelong partner? And if you do, then part of the tradeoff is that you have to work through these things and you can't just say, you know, yes, I get it. You could leave at any time, of course, but, you know, it's hard to go into it with that mindset too, because then you're hurting somebody. Cool. Well, good luck. Let us know if you tell her you're scared of her getting old. I let's know how that conversation goes. Let's do some triggers. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana,

big fan of the podcast. I recently had an awkward conversation with my mother-in-law that I found kind of triggering, and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Some background. My husband and I, both 32 years old, have been married for almost two years. Our anniversary is actually the same date as Drodana and Mike's. But we've been together for over 11 years. So I've known my mother-in-law for a decade at this point. We're not super close, but I've always gotten along well and haven't had any issues in the past. My husband and I recently took a trip to his parents' house so they could get some quality time with our three-month-old baby. We live five hours away so we don't see them all the time. On our recent trip, I was talking to my mother-in-law about my grandfather's recent passing

when she mentioned that her and her husband were trying to set up a trust for their assets in the event of their death to make sure everything goes to their kids and grandkids. I told her that makes total sense. She then followed up by explicitly stating that they want to make sure nothing goes to me and her daughter's husband. I didn't know what to say in response because it seemed like such an awkward or inappropriate thing to say to someone. And based on her tone, the rest of the conversation, I know she wasn't trying to be funny by making the statement.

She was being serious and genuinely meant it. I don't expect to get anything from them as they aren't my parents, but to me, that should literally go without saying. It also seemed weird to say because of how marital assets typically work, as in whatever my husband gets is mine and vice versa. I initially just thought it was a really awkward thing to say, but as more time passed, I couldn't stop thinking about it and how inappropriate it seemed to me, even if the sentiment behind it was true. I don't care about their assets and what we get from them. We're doing really well on our own and honestly have more in assets, savings, et cetera, than they do. Not to mention that I'm the higher earner in my relationship, not her son, so I very much don't need her money. Feeling slightly triggered by the statement isn't about the money at all. It just seemed like an unnecessary jab

and reminder that by her, I'm not actually part of her family, even if my kids are. Again, it could have just not been said. I'd love to know, your thoughts and how you would react to the comment. I haven't told my husband about it yet. Do you think that it's worth saying something to him about it or should I just drop it? Thanks for your help and out of the will batch. I agree. I think this is pretty triggering. This is like a very weird thing to go out of your way to say to someone. I would be like a little insulted by it. I totally agree with her. Like the act, the fact that like they wouldn't actually leave me anything wouldn't be that triggering. Like I wouldn't care about that. It would just be like

that they felt that they wanted to like. I totally agree to. like let me know that there was nothing in it for me. Right. I totally agree. This seems wildly inappropriate to have to go out of your way just to say by the way. It's it sounded almost like we are creating this entire document just to make sure you don't get anything. Right. That's kind of how the conversation landed, which just could have not been said. I don't know what this is about. And I don't know what you would even respond to that to like try to suss that out. Like I guess you could say like, oh, like, is there something that makes you think that I like am trying to like get my hands on all the family's money or something? Right. I mean,

I don't even know if it's worth a conversation with the mother-in-law. I think it's more worth a conversation with the husband. And just a thought that's crossing my mind is the fact that she hasn't mentioned this to him yet, I think is interesting. Right. Like, if this was me, I would have come directly on the ride home. We would have been talking about that comment. This weird comment your mom made. Yeah. Right.

So it seems like there maybe is some kind of a generalized, like lack of communication. And maybe this is just a hunch that I'm throwing out there. You know, I can't help but think that maybe she was sending the message to her son, perhaps through the daughter-in-law, like didn't want to tell him, like felt like he might be offended if she said to him. By the way, I want to make sure your wife doesn't get anything. So she's telling the wife to then tell the son. Perhaps. I don't know.

Right. It just seems weird that you would tell the person that it's more offensive to. So not tell the person in an effort to get it to the person who is less offensive to. Or maybe she did tell the son and he was like, I'm not going to tell her that. Like you could tell her. I guess that's possible. Or she just maybe doesn't want. I could see that the son being offended.

by the comment also, and maybe she's protective of her relationship with him. I mean, we're going off on a tangent here of speculation. But I don't know why she did this. I definitely find it triggering. I give this like an eight, just unnecessary and hurtful. And it's like she said, it's so obvious. Okay. I'm not going to, I'm not your child.

I wouldn't expect that I would be. Right. It would make me think the person just like didn't like me and sort of wanted me to know. I'd give it a six because I do think it's offensive, but I also think it's almost like so clearly something weird that she has going on. Like there's something weird, like, she's been in the family for 11 years. They're already married.

Like, I don't know. I wouldn't be, I would be almost like, almost, I would almost be almost be like it's like a little embarrassing for you because it's like you don't even have that much money. Right. Oh, yeah, it's true. You can just feel bad for her too. I mean, that's what she said.

She's like, I have more money. Like, we have more assets and savings than that. So I do think there's an element of like, okay, sure. Yeah. You know, like, you're kind of like, it's like a little embarrassing that you're so protective over the small amount of money. Yeah, totally. Like, yeah, I could probably bring it down to a seven.

But I definitely think this is weird and rude. I agree. And yeah. All right. Let's do another one. Okay. Hi, Jerdin and Dr. Naomi, love the podcast.

Needs some help and perspective. My boyfriend and his friends were meeting up to play volleyball and my boyfriend invited me to come play. I'm a little timid around his friend. so I asked him to pick me up last minute. He couldn't, so I met everyone there a little later. When I get there, I say hi to him and his friends, and I can't remember who said this, but someone goes,

oh, Stephanie, one of the other girlfriends, is sitting over there if you want to sit with her. Then him and his friends walk away and sit about 15 feet away from me. I know I should have been more direct and told them I wanted to play, but I thought it was obvious since I came in a sports bra and Nike shorts. Also, every time I go when they're playing volleyball, I play as well. I've never just sat and watched them play before. I feel like it's partially my boyfriend's responsibility to help me feel welcome,

especially around his friends. I just felt like a burden and super isolated. My overreacting sincerely sporty, sensi spice. Sensi, sensei. I think she's saying like sensitive. Oh, sensitive. Like sensi. That makes sense.

How do you feel as a Naomi was casually, extremely good at volleyball growing up? How would you feel in this scenario? I feel like you could relate. I mean, you know, I thought about it and I think my initial reaction is if she was more confident, there's something that just feels like there's a lack of confidence, which is fine. It's something to work on. But I would have just been like, actually, I'm going to play. When she said, like, go sit over there with Stephanie.

I've been like, no, I'm playing. You know, like I came to play. Right. Hello. Murray Sports, right. Right. Yeah. So I think she didn't do that because I think she, you know, she just.

is maybe insecure around his friends. Maybe they haven't been dating that long. Maybe they don't know each other that well. And I think her initial, it's almost like the lens that you see the world through. Right. So she has these lenses on that are allowing in a lot of this like, um,

rejection or, um, exclude, you know, feeling excluded like she's almost looking for that. So that's what's coming in versus her. just being like, oh, she probably didn't know that I came to play. I'm going to let her know. I planned on playing and then follow them over to wherever they're going to sit before the game starts. Like, right. I get it and I have empathy because I do think there are people that struggle with this like assertiveness and kind of that that and the antenna that are up about being excluded are really finely tuned, like she said, sensitive. So it's,

Sometimes the feeling of being excluded overpowers that confidence to just kind of say, my boyfriend's here, I'm here. I plan on playing. Let's do it. This is going to be blessed. Right. No, that's a great point. I think she definitely could have just said that originally.

And it wouldn't, like if she were a different kind of person who just said that, it wouldn't have maybe been that triggering. Mm-hmm. I do think if her poor boyfriend invited her to come play, it would be nice, especially if she's like a little bit more like timid or he knows her. well and he knows like that she usually plays it would be nice if the boyfriend was like oh like right but also he's not a mind reader so like if you wanted to play even if you just told him like oh am i i you know someone said like go stood over there like is it okay if i play and then he was like oh of course

like and then brought you over but maybe i don't know i could see why she'd be like a little annoyed with him right i agree too i think if i don't know what stage of dating they're in but i think if i don't know what stage of dating they're in, but I think if it's relatively early or she doesn't know his friends that well, I do think the nice, kind thing to do is to see her walking up, notice that she's there, come over, give her a hug and a kiss and wrap your arm around her and be like, hey, look who's here. Like, I'm so excited. Yeah, like she's with me. You know, we're playing.

And then when the girl said you could sit over there with Stephanie, I mean, this is the fantasy of how she wanted it to go. He's like, no, she's playing. She's on my team. Whatever. Right. You know, that would be a nice boyfriend. Sound like such a good boyfriend.

Thanks. No, I do think that would be like the nicer thing to do. But I also think some people are kind of like they find it attractive when someone can hold their own in a social setting and not feel like they have to do that. But so I see both sides of it. But I do think if you know you're dating someone who's a little timid, who's a little shy, you know all these people. She's coming in.

I certainly think it's a reasonable expectation that when you walk up to meet with your boyfriend, that he comes over to greet you and like say hello. Right. And this is just tell you to like go sit somewhere else. Yeah. With the girlfriends. I think it's a little bit of, I could see. It's like a little bit of a red flag that he didn't, you know, make her feel more.

Wasn't a part of the process of like welcoming her into this group that she didn't, was seems already established and she didn't know anybody. I agree. And I think it would be totally fair. her to say to him, like, even later that day, like, you know, I felt a little, like, not ignored, but it says like, it seems like I didn't, you know, I came to, to play with you and your friends and didn't really feel like I was, like, particularly warmly welcome there. And I, I just wish that maybe you had, like, put in a little more effort to make me feel comfortable. Yeah.

I think that's reasonable for sure. I think it does speak to him and his, like, awareness of the emotions of people around him. Like, I know that if I was inviting Jeff to like, let's say he was, I was meeting with a bunch of girlfriends and I mean, look, we've been married for 15 years. It's different, but I'm just trying to, you know, put it in a context. Even now, if we were married for 15 years and I'm sitting at like a dinner table with a bunch of new friends that he's never met and he's going to come stop by for a drink, when he shows up, I'm going to like make a thing of the fact that he showed up.

I'm not just going to sit there and like keep talking with my friends and pretend that he just walk in the room. Or like so and so's husbands by the bar. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Especially if she didn't even, if he doesn't know so and so or her husband. So I'd probably, you know, make someone feel good. Like, oh, hey, look who's here.

Come on. Here's a seat. Yeah. I agree. And then I think that like, I understand why people don't do that because they're like, oh, well, like, I don't want them to like think I'm needy or not like me. But it's like, your needs are kind of your needs. And it's better to know early on if the person's just like not really going to make an effort to meet them. There doesn't mean there's something wrong with him, but it just might mean like you're not a good match.

Like you need someone who's a little more attentive. Totally. And he might need someone who's a little bit more self-sufficient in a social setting, perhaps. And so yeah, it might not be a match, but I don't, I think she can work. I do think it would be good for her to work on being able to just be like, I deserve to say it's okay for me to say I planned on playing. that's okay, whatever. Right. Agreed. And just kind of, that's something for her to work on. But in the meantime, while she's working on it, I do think she deserves the support of her boyfriend. So agreed. I give it a five. Yeah. I could agree with a five. Four five. Four point five. There we go.

There we go. Okay. We did it. We did it. I love it. If there are male listeners out there, we want to hear from you. Sometimes I do fear that the show is like a little, it's like two, female leaning and I would love to you know if there are male listeners if you have topics that you want to hear about yeah right in right in we'll move you to the top of the line I have to say I see a lot of the male listeners that we do have a lot of them are writing in with a very similar kind of dilemma of I'm dating someone they have this thing that I'm sort of hyper fixated on interesting and it's very tough for me to let go of it I saw like a few like that so this one was sort of representative of that. We'll take, you know, emails of all kinds. And if that's you, you can also write

in an email again. We'll let you know if the little thing is big enough for you to hyper fixate on. Yeah, that's true. And if there's enough, it'll make them all kind of feel validated and try to figure out a way, like noticing this pattern. And hopefully we can help you figure out a way around it. Well, we gave you an intention for today. Hopefully it helps. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby, Jorge Morelas Picoe, and Rebecca Sous McCown. Editing by Basilio Perez. Guest Booking by Allie Friedlander. Send your advice emails to Oversharing at Betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294.

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