Oversharing - Am I Inconsiderate For Taking Care Of Myself Before Others?

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Jordana recently celebrated her birthday while Dr. Naomi was off visiting a long distance friend and the two share about their very different experiences. The hosts also side-bar about the recently viral Netflix Documentary Unknown Number and if you haven’t seen it yet go watch it first because they spill all the secrets. A new mother and caring friend writes in asking if it's okay to not be there for someone when you yourself are holding on by a thread. Dr. Naomi gets real about a concerned wife and daughter who thinks her husband's mismanaging a vacation with her father and is looking for a Betchecist on the situation. After giving birth, one listener is at odds with her new body shape and seeks an intention for how to embrace this era of her life. A Betch is left speechless and a bit triggered after her friend ghosted her for months and blew off a trip, only to emerge from the woodwork with a new group of friends. Another listener is sour that her partner wasn’t applauding her recent weight loss only to discover he “hadn’t even noticed” and she is not sure how to feel about it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

How is your weekend? I know you were in Charleston. Yeah, so much to talk about. Talk about. Charleston, you had a birthday. your birthday is right before Maddie's birthday. You guys were almost birthday twins. Almost.

So close. Missed it by a day. Yeah, Charleston was great. It was quick in and out. It was fun. We went to a party for Jeff's friend's 50th. And we didn't know anyone there except for like literally nobody. But it was really fun.

Sometimes, you know, there was like a dance party at the end. That's kind of my jam. So I was like feeling like I was one of the girls without actually knowing anybody. And it's like a good bonding. It's like we're all kind of now I feel like we have a bond with all these people that I never met and we didn't have to actually talk to all of them. Yeah. We bonded through our boogie. You're going to keep in touch.

We boogie bonded. No, probably not. You're like absolutely not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. It was lovely for one. No, it's just it's nice when you have a long distance friend. and they've created a new life to like know their people, you know.

Yeah. No, it's that's, that's nice. And also, I mean, impressive for you because I do feel like that's like a little bit of my worst nightmare, like going into a huge social event where I don't know anyone. And then like resisting the urge to kind of just like retreat into like. Hibernate in the corner. Probably just talk to Jeff a lot or be on your phone or really. Because again, especially for an event like this.

where it's like it's not like you move to a new town and these are all the new people in town. Like you're probably not going to see these people again. Right. And it's just it's a lot to be like they all know each other. Yes, totally. I'm impressed. Thank you. Yeah, I felt proud of myself.

I do think like I said, you know, obviously we're chatting, but the idea of just like dancing together is like I'm in the mix, but like I don't have to make small talk all night long. So yeah, there's a temptation to be like, I'm never going to see you again. I don't really care what you think about me. So I'm just going to be like antisocial in the corner. Right. Because it doesn't really matter. But it's not like I'm trying to win your friendship. But it was a good time.

It was really fun. That's great. Yeah. It was a good little challenge, I guess. And you had your birthday. I had my birthday, which is just like so ironic. I feel like Carmen's come to get me because, you know, on your birthday, I just kept talking about how, you know, on your birthday, you're doing something so fun and you don't want

to be interrupted by all these calls. So you should be texted. And then my birthday's on a Sunday this year. It's yesterday. And Mike is in India for work. Right. So we had celebrated the week before. So my birthday was like pretty much me and my dog. And I had a good, I got a massage, which was great. But other than that, I had a lot of free time. Nobody's calling you. Could have been fielding calls, but I put out there that I don't want any birthday because it's like the one year where I'm not doing anything. Oh my gosh. But you called me. So that was nice.

Yes. I got, you know, I got mine. I got payback. It's actually a good lesson in like relationship communication because I think sometimes, and this is for like couples and friendships, you can establish like this is what I want. And then maybe it changes. And it's okay to kind of be like, hey. Actually. The thing I said, I didn't want you to do.

I want you to do. Right, but not all the time, just this year. Yes. Next year, go back to leaving me alone. Yes. All right. I will check in year by year we can assess. I mean, it's all about communication.

Right. I think people are, I mean, we have some emails like this too. I think people are, there's like a fear of like over communicating. or something. You don't want to have a whole conversation about something or like go there. So people sometimes just don't say anything. And then there's like these. And these are usually for smaller things.

There's just like this small lingering resentment feeling for all things. Because especially for friends. I mean when you're in a couple, maybe it more like builds up. But I think with friends or siblings or people you don't live with or see every day, you're kind of like, I could bring up that that thing you did kind of annoyed me. or I could just like let it go and like just not get into it. Right. And if you have too many of those, it does. It can affect the relationship. So yeah, I agree. I think there's also a fear of being like a little bit too like emotionally needy in a relationship that doesn't feel like it's that type of like you're not each other's person.

So like you're not your number one attachment person. person. So do, is this worth? What are the expectations? Yes. Right. Exactly. And yes, we have some emails about like friendship expectations, which I think are interesting to look at like how much can you expect in terms of like emotional digging in. Right. From different relationships in your life. Yeah. I think they're, they're really great. We're going to get into those. But before that, we had a couple requests to discuss the documentary unknown number on Netflix, I believe it was. And I had watched and I, you know, I could see why people want us to discuss it. It seems like a psychological landmine. Yes. And spoiler alert, if you haven't watched and you want to watch, it was very, it was,

I don't want to say entertaining because it was like really weird and messed up, but it was entertaining. Yeah. So check it out. It's called Unknown Number. It's on Netflix. Yeah. If you don't want to hear hit pause. here and skip because there's no way we can discuss it without spoiling the ending. Yes. So spoiler alert, alert, alert. What did you think as a psychologist watching this documentary? So many thoughts. So for those of you who aren't going to watch it and just want to know, it's the story of this girl in high school and her boyfriend who are getting like just horrifically bullied on their cell phones.

Like someone is sending them. They're 14. They're 14. It's like I think it spans between like 14 to 16 or even. It's like years basically of someone harassing them, trying to break them up, telling her she's awful. It escalates into like you should kill yourself and just these horrible,

horrible texts that she's getting, the boyfriend's getting. Then they end up breaking up. over it because it's just like too much. They're fighting because they keep making the whoever this texture is, keeps making the girlfriend insecure. And she's like not sure what he's doing. Ask some questions.

They break up. He gets a new girlfriend. And then that girlfriend's mother starts getting texts. So it's like all over the place. The spoiler alert is the entire time pretty much, it is the girl's own mother. The original girl's mother, yeah. That is set from a blocked number, some app that she used, is harassing her own daughter

with like really vulgar, disgusting sexual texts about her boyfriend and what she's doing with her 14 year old daughter's boyfriend. Insulting her body and saying like no one likes you. And it's crazy because they sort of show the mom. Well, one, I thought this was documentary was unique in that the mom is in the documentary. So usually the villain is not like willing to be interviewed or, or it's like a jail or something. And so she was like being interviewed the whole time, which is to me what threw me off from thinking it was her. Yes.

Because you're like, who would ever participate in this if you would be so shameful that how could you ever even show your face? Yes. So, I mean, as a parent, and look, we have our shed our shame. And if she wants to come on here, I will help her shed her shame. And we can help her shed her shame. But this is something that I think is a pretty shameful type of a behavior. We can talk about the one of the investigators said it best. It was like a cyber munchausen. That was kind of what it ended up being, which was. Was like, did you think that that was like what, why she was doing that? Yeah, I think she was doing it because she wanted to, I think there was a part of it that she wanted to like create that. What my assessment is, they were really close. She was like the soccer mom. She was the coach of the team.

She was always like super on the PTA involved in her daughter's life. Then at like 14, her daughter got this boyfriend. She probably felt a little pushed out like she wasn't her number one. person anymore. Right. And as a result of, you know, I think there might have been something where she might have gotten one or two texts very early on that perhaps were not actually from the mother. You thought you believe that? I don't know. But I could see it. That seems crazy. It does seem crazy. But maybe it just gave her the idea of like, oh, wow, she's so upset about this. I can be there for her. We can be close again by me like supporting her through this.

you know, bullying. And then she was like, oh, wow, the bullying kind of stopped. Now we've lost this bond. Right. And then she herself started it back up, I think to be able to be like, oh, come tell me what happened. What messages did they send today? Oh my gosh, that's awful.

And also maybe break up her and the boyfriend so she could kind of have her daughter back to herself. But it also seemed like she kind of had a crush on the boyfriend. To me it almost seemed like she was. trying to relive a youth or something or she was trying to be the daughter. Like she was just like she wanted to be involved in this relationship. Yes. Somehow.

Yeah. I do think there is a thing. I mean, not to this extent. This was this was crazy because it was like not even a text or two, which would still be crazy, but it was years. Yeah. And like why did she need to tell her to kill herself? Tell her to kill herself.

Right. Like like multiple times. insulting her body and telling her she should be doing more sexual things with the boyfriend. And that's why he's going to break up with you because you're not like giving him all sex. Like all just the worst, the worst, the worst. Like the worst things if you could think of to text a 14 year old. And it came from her own mother. Crazy.

Yeah. So I do think that there is a culture of like parents getting really involved in like the the high school drama of their kids. If like you, you don't, she wasn't working. I think she was laid off. She probably had too much time on her hands.

And she started feeling like, okay, this is my own personal, like I'm going to create my own personal, you know, drama here. Yeah. So I think part of it is like she was torturing her daughter,

but at the same time, she was in control of it. So it's almost like, you think if someone's doing that to your kid, that's like your worst nightmare. Like I couldn't think as a parent of a worse nightmare than someone harassing my like 40 texts a day just like trashing her, bringing her down. Right. But she was in control of it.

So it maybe didn't feel as scary to her or the whole thing was so twisted. But the whole time I'm kind of like, and this was the weird part. If that's me, I'm like, these messages are coming. through this device, remove the device. Right. As a parent, you would, as a parent, you would remove the device. Yes. Right.

I think both parents, his, the boyfriend and her were so focused on like figuring out who it was that it was almost like they didn't want to just end it because they'd never know, like who the villain was. They weren't being protective in a. you know, as the tradeoff for. Right. There's someone out there that like wants harm to my child and I need to find out who it was. And I get it.

Like kids need phones and whatever. But like and if since it was her own mother, she would have gotten a new phone number if she would have changed it. But I don't even know if they ended up doing that. She would have gotten a new number and she would have been able to continue the harassment. But it seemed like just not sending them. She's getting 40 texts a day while she's at school. like how about you're just not going to have your phone at school right and then she also didn't

care that they were totally blaming the other girl oh my gosh yes they she basically like framed this other teenage girl who was then now now she's psychologically tortured because everyone in school thinks she's like a vicious bully yeah and then they have this one line where the mom is like basically she admits to doing it she said she didn't send the first couple I don't really believe that, but fine. Okay. And then she's like, listen, people drunk drive all the time and they don't get caught. And so you don't like think they're a bad person, but like I got caught. And it's like, I don't think it's the same thing. When someone is like, obviously drunk driving is horrible, but you're not like setting out to actively be an aggressor, I would assume most of the time

in that scenario. Yes. It's like a very different. she was crazy. Yeah, does not completely fit. Yeah. I think the thing that makes this documentary really, like you said, entertaining and compelling is that you have the mother sitting in the interview chair the entire time talking as if she's like so upset about this, trying to find out who the person is. And then she's sitting in the same basic interview chair and saying, well, I made a mistake. And I got caught. And the sad part was the daughter's reaction to the whole thing when she found out about it. So like if anyone watches it or if you've watched it, I watched the scene where they told

the daughter that it was the mom. Like I rewatch that scene three times. Oh, yeah. Because they have the body cam from the cops, which was also another really interesting thing where you could see the moment where they like catch her and confront her and tell the daughter and tell the husband. That scene where the daughter's sitting there, I'm like, is she hearing what they're saying? Does she know what they're saying?

And the mother comes over and starts like stroking her and like, heading her. Are you comforting her? Is she comforting you? It made me feel so sad for the daughter because the end of it, which was actually the saddest part of the whole thing. And I could even like feel like I'm crying, just thinking about it is they interview the daughter at the end. and they basically wanted to like take away the mother's access to the daughter and like remove her. So she couldn't continue to hurt her. And she like still wanted her mom.

And she was just sort of like, I know that I shouldn't, but I still need my mom. Right. Well, it kind of made sense when more I thought about it. At first I was like, did she know like why is she not care that much? But then the more I'm thinking about it, I'm kind of like, she really doesn't. have anyone else. Like she doesn't have this boyfriend anymore. She's an only child, it seems like. Yeah. And her mom, like you said, is her primary attachment. It almost makes you think like that's how people stay in these abusive relationships where sort of everyone else is

cut out. And all the people at school probably think she's, are like now really bullying her because they're like, oh, your mom is this crazy person. And you also framed this other girl and all this stuff. So she's probably feels so isolated that the only person who's still getting. And giving her this like seemingly unconditional love, at least her face, is the mom. Yeah, which is why I think it is exactly what that detective said. It's like a cyber Munchausen's because in Munchausens, you can like make your child sick. You can kind of hide that you're making your child sick and then you get to take care of them. And in like a cyber bully thing, you can hide that you're making your child mentally and

psychologically sick and then take care of them. And even the way at the end, the daughter like, oh, still wanted the mother to take care of her. There was that dynamic. There was something about that dynamic, like isolating someone, like you said, and then being the only one that could be there for them.

And she gets the, like in Munchaus is you get the attention of like, oh, the cops are looking into it, the kids at school. How are you doing? She must be so upset. Are you okay?

How are you handling like your daughter being bullied? And everyone's talking about you. and now you're kind of like in the, you know, the popular parent crowd because everyone's like aware of you and, oh, brutal, that poor girl. Like, I really, I really, really feel for her. I hope she can find her way out of this and be okay. But that was crazy. Check it out. Unknown number on Netflix.

It is a watch. It's even fun. Now that you know it's the mom, it's still like, I, almost want to rewatch it now knowing that it's the mom. So I think it would still be a good watch even though you know it's the mom. Yeah. I agree. I think it's still really good.

And it'll be fun and it's funny. It'll be interesting in a different way to watch. All right. So let's get into some emails and stuff that are slightly less insane. Still drama. Yeah. I'm glad we don't have one of those. I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone.

in our community. That's just awful. Yeah, that would be crazy. All right. Well, guys, if you want two bonus episodes a month and all the episodes a day early and ad free, you can subscribe. So subscribe on Apple or Spotify and make sure you check it out. People who subscribe seem to really love it. So we really appreciate you guys being part of that community. Or you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups. How do they do that? Yes, you can come find me at Naomi Burn I actually, you know, it's funny, I was meditating when I was on the plane to Charleston. And I was almost like missing my group because we always meditate together at the beginning of every group and I meditate with them. And I really have such warm feeling. So if any of you guys are

out there and you're listening, love you, love our community, love spending time and doing what we do together. So if you want to be a part of it, Naomi Bernstein.com, come check us out. And yeah, get involved. Love that. All right. Check it out. Or if you want to give a voicemail at the end of this episode, if you want to leave us a voicemail,

you can call 646363-6294 to tell us about your issue, give us some feedback on the show, anything like that. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com with your email, feedback, whatever it is. Let's get into our episode. I will read the first email. Hi, Naomi and Jordana, long-time listener and first-time email are here.

I have a question related to emotional support and expectations of friends. Sadly, for the past year, my childhood best friend has been going through infertility, including multiple losses. Her and her partner are now considering interventions like IUI and IBF to get pregnant. Meanwhile, my husband and I welcomed our first child earlier this year. I've tried my best to be supportive, sending gifts before her big doctor's appointments, calling her, texting weekly, etc. Despite my efforts, she expressed to me recently that she feels I have not been there for her and would like me to check in more. I am struggling with this because I'm trying my best to support her through this, but I'm also spread very thin,

caring for a newborn baby and attempting to take care of myself postpartum. And although I would never show it to her, admittedly discussing pregnancy loss and infertility so often and in such detail has been hard for me when my hormones are all over the place and mental health is so fragile. I think the sad truth is that perhaps I am not the right person to support her through these challenges and the way she needs, given where we both are in our lives right now. I love and care for her so deeply and I don't want this to affect our friendship, but I don't know how to move forward. The situation is related to family building and fertility, but I think it could be considered more broadly. What expectations are realistic to put on a friend when it comes to emotional support?

And are those expectations still fair when you, the friend, are in an emotionally vulnerable time themselves. Thanks for your insight. Love the pod and you guys. I like this question. Yeah. Because the example is great, but I also agree it could be applied to anything that anyone is going through in a friendship. We were just talking about this, how the expectations for friends are often a little bit like murkier than like a partner. Like a partner, you're like, oh, of course, you're going to be at all the appointments and check in every day because we live together and do all this stuff. And we're like a unit. And I think with friendships, people, you know, they have their friendships and they're involved in each other's lives,

but they also have their own full life outside of the friendship. So I think it's not always clear what your expectations are as someone's friend. Right. And I really think it depends on the two people and the friendship and like what they're both open and willing to be for one another. And that again, like we talked about before, that can change, right? Like before she had a baby, she might have been willing to be like the number one and only, friend that was supportive to her. Like I do think some people have these intense best friendships where it's like the expectations of that friend is the same as like your parents or your partner

is that one friend versus like maybe having a friend group or like two or three friends that you can kind of spread some of this around to. Sometimes it's kind of like we're each other's person. And I think when that happens, and life circumstances change, you might need to, you know, kind of, I hate to say, renegotiate, but like renegotiate the terms of the friendship. Right. And I also think that sometimes these things, I sort of like ebb and flow, like sometimes, you know, when you and your friend are going through the same thing, if you're in college or you're after

college and you're like in the same boat, there can feel like a closeness. And then a lot of the times as you enter your 30, your late 20, 20s, your 30s, people sort of start to reach different milestones at different times and they're going through different things at different times. And you just relate to people a little bit less based on what you are or aren't going through. Yeah. So it's tough. I don't know. I think there's another dynamic to it, which is, and we've talked about this before, right? And I see this with my patients and I hear this when people talk about like feeling, if someone's feeling depressed, right? Or and what is depression?

It's like a ruminating negative thought pattern of like different aspects of your life. And so sometimes when you're in that mode, whether it's anxiety, we can call anxiety and depression like they're kind of cousins. They're ruminating. They're chronic. You can't really get them to go away. They affect the way your physiology feels. And it feels like it's kind of not something that you can control.

And sometimes it does feel like I want to share. this with the people that I'm closest to in my life. But I do think there's a point where continuing to repeat the same negative narrative or scary projections or whatever that is isn't beneficial for the person that's doing it. And it can end up feeling maybe sort of like this where I don't know. I can't imagine that there's new information on a daily basis, if it was like new information, like, oh, I got this doctor, I got this appointment, you know. I mean, it might be.

I could see how it would be. But I guess I think even so, even if it is, I got this result and this result and here's my plan, my next plan for the next thing going through. And this is what the doctor said. I do think, like, even with that, is that something that someone not involved? and it directly needs to be updated on all the time. I mean, I read this email and I was like, she sounds very supportive, sending gifts,

calling and texting weekly. Like, what more could you? Yeah. I would be interested to know, like, when her friend says that she's not, hasn't been there for her. What she wants. I guess she wants her to check in more.

She wants her to check in every day. Every day. That does seem like a large ask for someone who doesn't live with you. Right. to an extent. Right. And again, I think. Or has their own life.

Yes. If their dynamic was we talk every day and this is where it's hard and it feels like I, like I can't be a friend through thick and thin. I think if their dynamic was we talk every day, we talk about shows, we talk about what we're going to do on the weekend. We talk about things that are like light and fine, then it feels kind of like, great. This is fueling both of us. If the topic has changed to like every time we talk, it's about this like,

like sad, hard, heavy thing, now it kind of feels like this is draining because she loves her and it's hard to hear it every day. Yeah. Believe me, if I could tell my kids like, I'm overwhelmed with all of your emotions. Like, please text me once a week. I might do that. Right. I mean, but those are your kids. So you have to do it with like certain people that you are like responsible for taking care of. I mean, I wonder if she is a therapist because it's the kind of thing where it's like if I texted a friend and I was like, hey, I'm in a, I'm, I have like a urgent situation. Could you come by my house and feed my dog today at three? I like really need someone to do that. I'm sure they would say yes. If I said that every day. Right. I think there would be a

point where they would be like, I think you need to bring in someone that's not me. Yes. To help you out with this thing and I could do it once a week. But it's like, and again, that's like a physical thing. But I still think that like we, we probably downplay how easy it is to check in on someone. But it is if you're paying attention, a lot of emotional weight to have these kinds of conversations very often. Right. You don't know what to say.

You don't know how to help. It's very hard. I always say the hardest part of being in relationship is sitting with the people. You love just sitting in the muck with them. And that's what this friend wants. But if she has a new baby and she's dealing with her own, it sounds like mental health issues about maybe there's some anxiety or depression there on her end. She's like,

I'm trying to just deal with my own stuff. And then every day I'm supposed to kind of sit in the muck with you. It feels like a lot. And I think it's okay to communicate some of that. And I get it. Like if I talk to, you know, if you talk to anybody and you're like, what's the most important thing to you in your life? And you're kind of like, I want to be a good friend. Or like if we talk about self-esteem and we'll talk in a little bit about body image,

it's kind of like, okay, let's not focus on our body. Let's focus on our character. Like, I'm a good friend. I'm a good, you know, kind human. So I think when it comes to giving yourself permission to step back from being unconditionally always there for somebody, I could see why she's struggling because it feels like I'm not being a good friend. Right. But I also think you can tell yourself, like, I can be a good friend and I can, first of all, I think she should just communicate. I'm dealing with my own stuff and I love you so much that when I hear that you're struggling

on top of what I'm struggling, I know there's nothing I can do to help you. It brings me really down. Like it's, you know, it's very hard and I'm happy to be here for you in the way that I have been, like calling, texting, sending. you know, once a week or however often it is and sending, you know, gifts when I can, that feels like something that she can do where she doesn't have to sit in it with her. And if that's something that she feels like can keep her own tank full while she's giving to her friend, that's probably why she's doing some of that.

Right. You know, like sending a gift is like, great, I can send this gift. I don't have to like sit and hear how sad you are and how fearful you are because that's hard for me because I love you and I don't want you to feel that way. Yeah. And I think the friend is probably feeling like depressed and upset on her own. And there is sometimes maybe you are the target of. Yes.

Feeling like, oh, this person isn't checking in more because it kind of gives you an outlet for or somewhere to target your frustration or your sadness into someone else. And I don't. I mean, again, she seems to be pretty, being a pretty good friend to me. Yeah. We don't have the friend's side of it. But I think it was just, I think, I agree with you. I think she needs to relate to the friend what she's going through because I think there is this feeling like, oh, I can't complain about motherhood.

I can't complain about something that has to do with having a baby when this person doesn't even have that. But if it's like, if that's the reason that you are not able to be there for her and the way that she wants you to be there for her, I think it's a very relevant and an important thing to do. And just because someone else is having an issue doesn't mean that your issues don't matter. I totally agree. And I also think if there are listeners out there that are dealing with a friend that is emotionally exhausting,

I also don't think you necessarily need to have your own mental health issues to say like, this is too much for me. Good point. Like I think you can do that regardless. I agree. I think in this case, it's good information for her to have. But I think this might be an occasion where you're like, if I'm willing to give and if it sounds like what this listener is giving, which is a lot, I'm really supportive.

and a really good friend, just because you're not available every single time someone wants every day or every time they have a thought or a feeling doesn't mean you're not a good friend. And if that's what that person's like, that person might have to have their own realization of like maybe I need a little bit more of a tribe than just like a single person that is my person. Like I need to get a community, which is why community is really important because it's not just one person. Yeah. several people that you can kind of spread that connection to. And there are online communities for infertility and people going, like, I mean, again,

I think Reddit is like a scary, horrible place a lot of the time, but or like the Facebook groups were like, but also it's like there are literally digital, we do live in a time where there are digital places where you can find people going through the exact niche issue as you, even if it's like honestly there's like fertility but then there's like fertility with infertility with like endometriosis Facebook groups. There's like infertility with like, you know what I mean? Like whatever you're specific, which is like kind of cool that you can find that online. And like you could get into it with like all these people who have, you know, very

similar experiences to you who would understand that. And obviously it's like a different kind of support than someone who's known you since childhood. But maybe like the like the friend said, maybe I'm not the best person to be riding through the day to day of this. And maybe there are better people for that in this one circumstance. Right. Or like even just the only person. I can't be the only person. Right. You know, maybe besides her partner, which I'm assuming, hopefully she talks to them about it, but it can't be the only person, which is why people love the group therapy

concept because they're like, once a week I have my group. And oftentimes once a week you have your individual therapy. Then you talk to like a friend. you journal and like there's your community you know right so yeah I would forgive yourself it sounds like you're being a good friend you might need to address I mean it sounds like she brought it up with you so she's asking you um and you can give her that answer of like I'm really going through my own stuff but I also it's very draining and in order for me to be a good friend to you and be able to have the energy to go and like send you a gift after you know you have a loss. I need to be like okay myself so that I can kind of be there for you and the people other people in my life. It's a hard

conversation to have. It really is to say like I don't know that I can give you what you need emotionally. Right. But here's what I can give. Right. And then I think that's just like a boundary. And it's like obviously it's like a weird, weird conversation because you know, I think we're taught or like it feels like most of these scenarios involved oh i'll i'll be i'll do whatever you need i'll be there yeah unconditional right any day any night like but that's sort of just a saying like everyone has their limits and you're right it does it transfers like you go from being attached to your parents who literally are that like you call them at three in the morning they're going to talk to you you're going to be there like unconditional i'm your person i'll be there no matter what then you kind of

transfer that attachment to your friends as you're like in high school and college. And at that time, nobody has anything better to do, but to be a good friend. That's like your number one priority. A lot of times like in those years of your life, maybe besides like work or school or whatever, but interpersonally, that's like your number one priority. And so you can give all that. So this transition time, I think when people get partnered and start having babies, it's a hard adjustment to be like, I can't just, my number one priority is not you anymore. And that's hard. Right.

Hard truth. Yeah. All right. Well, good luck. Let's let us know how this conversation goes if you have it. Let's do a batch assist. Do you want to read this one? I will read this.

Hey, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thank you so much for everything you do. I've been a listener since guest appearances on you up and was so excited when oversharing became a podcast of its own. I do remember coming on and talking to you. Jared like yeah people love those episodes back when I lived in New York it was a long feels like a long time ago but that was fun um thrilled to be a subscriber to both just adding that upper echelon status we love our subscribers you're here check it out you get a free trial if you want to

try it out i am writing to you today as i sit here incredibly conflicted my husband and i have been married for about a year and a half together for a few years prior to getting married my husband and my father have always gotten along, but we do live about an hour and a half from them. They have a great time together whenever we go spend a weekend, and they usually text throughout the week, share memes, and have a good relationship. My father has always wanted a closer relationship as his father-in-law was his best friend. I feel he's always envisioned the same for himself. My grandfather passed away a year ago, and I feel it has strengthened my father's desire

to put more effort into spending time with my husband. Recently, my father extended the invitation for my husband to join him on a trip. They would be away four days in a state where my father has other friends and partaking in aviation activities, essentially my father inviting my husband deeper into his world. My husband was excited and jumped at the chance to say he would love to partake. Plans made, flights booked a few weeks later, last night, this is fresh. My husband comes home and informs me my father-in-law, his husband. father is joining in on the trip as well. I knew immediately this isn't what my father would have

pictured or wanted. I'm assuming my husband understood the same on some level as he said, I knew you would be mad. When I proceeded to get mad at this information, in this logic, he spoke with my father and asked before extending the invitation to his own father, and he said, your dad said it was fine. He was totally cool with it. The fact that those words being spoken do not mean my father's actually okay with this is a whole separate email and going on two years of therapy, but I know the words spoken aren't always the words meant. I checked in with my father and asked if he was genuinely okay with this. Again, the words were, I don't care. While peppered with his actual concerns like, we're doing the air shows, I'm not sure it will be of interest, or whose idea was it?

Overall, what I read to be hurt feelings that my husband didn't want to spend time with just him. I've known the man 30 plus years. I know how to read between the lines. I now want my husband to uninvite his father and leave it the trip my father intended. But I know at least an additional plane ticket has been purchased for my father-in-law so far. I also feel a little upset when my husband didn't speak with me about this first, as he knew my feelings would be against inviting his father. I do feel it only fair to share that on my husband's side, everyone has a the more the merrier mentality when it comes to events like you. this. And the request to join would have been innocent and an invitation extended if the roles were

reversed. We also live incredibly close to my husband's family and see them often. My family can be more oriented to sticking to the core group. And I feel my father was really looking to spend some one-on-one time with my husband. I'm not sure how to navigate reversing my father-in-law's invitation without hurting feelings or how to stress the importance of this to my husband who feels I'm overreacting. Any advice you can give would be so appreciated sincerely a take it back, batch. Okay. So I don't think you can un-invite the father-in-law. Yeah. I feel like she's getting a little too involved in this, I have to say. Yeah. I think the energy would be better spent working with her dad on how to express himself if he didn't want him to come. Like the dad gave him the okay.

it's not like the dad's not going anymore. Maybe the three of them could be close. She does seem like she's overreacting a little bit. Yeah. I, again, I validate her feelings. I think because her grandfather died and, you know, the father was very close to him. She probably just feels really bad for him.

And she, like, is trying to, I mean, their bond sounds great. They text throughout the week. I don't know like that many people that are texting their father-in-law like multiple times throughout the week and like going like the fact that he was excited to go on this trip with the father-in-law and his friends who he doesn't know is really nice and really sweet and really cool that he's like investing himself and being close to her father and his friends in this way. I agree. I think she's she said she's in therapy because of issues around her father like not a. expressing himself and like saying things he doesn't mean. And it sounds like her antenna or her like little hairs on the back of her neck are standing up that her father's going to be upset,

maybe passive aggressive. That's going to somehow affect her negatively. And she's like trying to protect him from himself where he said it's okay. He gave permission. I don't, he's not spending time with just the husband anyway. he's going and seeing a bunch of his friends. It's almost like this husband is going on this trip with the father and a bunch of people coming full circle to my party where I didn't know anybody.

But this is an entire weekend. He doesn't know anybody. Four days. Even if he was like, hey, I don't know anybody. I want to invite my dad just so like I kind of have a person. If you're hanging out with your friends, even if it was, that's not, doesn't sound like the reason. But even if it was, I think that's a reasonable ask.

Like I think she's overreacting. I think this is her own sensitivity about like that her father is not going to get his like perfect dream trip. Like who does? You know, it might not be exactly what they want. And if you have to share your son-in-law with his dad for a weekend, you're still going to grow closer. You're still going to have bonds. He's still going to meet your friends and do all your aviation activities and all the stuff. Yeah.

I think she's overreacting. And I actually think that I love you. You're a listener. Keep listening. Don't be mad. But like honestly, I think it wasn't the nicest that you came at your husband so hard about this and got mad at him when he did check with your dad. He's going to spend all this time with him.

He's leaning into being close to your family. And like, I don't think he did anything wrong here. The only thing I would say that the husband could have done differently is if he knew that she might have some weird feelings. feelings about this. He avoided asking her. He purposely didn't tell her before kind of arranging this on the side because he knew she would be annoyed about it. So, but also like, again, I think she needs to be more open minded and be like open to hearing what his thought process is, which is even like, four days is a long time to spend with your dad and a lot of people that I don't know. I love your dad,

but that's a long time. And my dad likes this kind of thing. And like if she would be open to that, I think maybe he'd feel more comfortable like going with him. But I do think she needs to appreciate that her husband is doing this nice thing. I don't know many people who would go on a four day trip with their father-in-law and all their friends. Yeah. And there's a whole other side of like his dad where he's like maybe he doesn't take any trips with his own dad.

So he's kind of like, I'm taking a trip with my father-in-law. We don't really take trips together. Like I can kill two birds with one stone, spend time with everybody. unless he's going to do a separate four-day trip with his own dad. I just, I think what's happening here is you, listener, are trying to micromanage your father's emotions.

And that's not your job. He's a big boy. And if he wants something different out of this trip, he can speak up. So I don't know what you're, what's happening in your therapy, but I think what should be happening is you are not, you're the keeper of your father's emotions.

You don't have to be a mind. You don't have to, if, you know, that's up to him to express what he wants and doesn't want. I think there must be something she's scared of on a deeper level when her father is upset but not sharing it. Right. That she's worried about. Like, I don't know if he's going to be cold or distant or mean or withholding or something, but you can't be walking on eggshells trying to.

to read between the lines and interpret what your dad wants. It's his job to say if he doesn't want him to come. And frankly, even if he doesn't want him to come, I don't know if that's like the nicest thing, you know? Right. If he's looking for more male companionship, this should be a good thing. Yeah, excluding the father, I don't think is,

this sounds really lovely. Like I couldn't imagine. I mean, we don't have, you know, Jeff's dad is, is passed away. But like, I couldn't imagine like my mom and his mom, like, going on a trip together for four days and like getting along and everybody wanting to do that. Like, that's really nice. So I would focus on the positives of all this. Yeah. I would appreciate that. The dynamic sounds nice. Don't, don't make it weird by like insisting someone be uninvited from this trip. You're going to make it weird. Yeah. Let them all have fun that your dad will get over.

it or he won't, but that's his responsibility. Let's do some intentions. I will read this email. This is a common one we get. So I think this will be helpful for a lot of people. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm hoping you can help me set an intention for navigating postpartum anxiety about my appearance. I have a seven-month-old and while I lost most of my pregnancy weight, my body is still changed. I'm softer and squishier on my stomach and I have some stretch marks and I'm breast feeding and have noticed more weight around my upper body area and things aren't as lifted as they were before. Some tops and outfits I just can't wear because I need access to breastfeed my baby. My pre-pregnancy jeans fit but dig into my sides, making a muffin top appearance. When I have tried

on a size up, I feel like they don't fit properly elsewhere and that they fit strangely around my stomach that makes me look like I could still be pregnant. It makes fine and clothes to wear difficult because I feel like I don't look good in anything and it makes me not even want to see people or go out in public. I've left the house thinking I look okay before, but then caught a glimpse of my reflection while out and immediately wanted to go home because I didn't like what I saw. I just don't know how to dress my body besides in leggings and stretchy athletic shorts and a giant t-shirt to hide myself. Even then, I feel like if I wear something oversized, I look frumpy. But if I wear something tighter, you can see every roll in bulge. I feel like because I had a baby, my appearance is more under

a microscope by others, which is contributing to my anxiety. I also have had a bit. I have had body image issues with my appearance in the past from being bullied by my sister and her friends when I was a kid. And I feel like some of those same feelings are what I'm now feeling. I have bought some new clothes and I exercise and do small things that make me feel good in other ways. And while I'm proud of my body for what it is done and sustaining and building life, I like clothes too. I'm a therapist. I just haven't been able to chat with since I had my baby. Maybe I'm putting too much of my value into my appearance and this all sounds shallow, but I'm having a hard time with this. I'd love to hear what you come up with for me. In the meantime, if this makes it onto the pod, Dr. Naomi, have you had any

similar feelings after having children of your own? Thanks. A bet you just wants to feel confident in her body again. Yes, I have had this. I remember, you know, this just happened maybe a month ago. And, you know, Maddie comes up to me and she's like, so when did your boobs get saggy? She's worried for herself. She's just kind of trying to play it forward. Like how much time she doesn't even have boobs yet and she's worried about them getting saggy. But it was like that question of like, okay, I guess that's just the definition of what's happening at this point. And so yeah, your body does change. It's going to change.

And I think it is hard to get to that place where you kind of accept it for what your new body is instead of trying to make it go back to the body that it was before. because it might not. It might. Some people do, but like it might not. And I think it's kind of a microcosm for everything in life, which is that like everything changes. And if we're clinging to this one, you know, way that we're deciding it's going to be, you're probably going to end up unhappy.

And it works. It's the same thing for anything. Like I want to meet my husband and be married by the time I'm 28. It's like that's the way that you think it should be. and it's probably not going to be that way. So if you keep trying to force that thing of like, I need to get back to this body that I was before, you're probably going to end up disappointed.

So I think a lot of this is about accepting your new shape. And a lot of that is mental. She talks obviously about her sister and the friends bullying her. That's the voice in your head. Right. When you're looking in the mirror and you're making whatever comments you're making, it's like that voice is embedded in your mind. And the societal voices,

I do think like a lot of people when they give birth, you do hear a lot of people commenting, oh, she looks great. She, you know, oh, she gave birth however long ago. You look great. You look, you know what is that mean? It means you look like you were. Before.

Right. And I mean, it's fun. This is the kind of thing that I think is usually said in a positive light to a lot of people. but if you hear that and you see that, even if it's not at you, you hear other people say it to other people, I think there is this feeling of, yeah, people are noticing one way or another. Right. People who look great.

And then there's people who no one says anything to. Right. Totally. I do wish it could be like most people, a lot of people have issues around like this round soft, squishy belly, that that is like a bad thing and they don't want it. And it's like that midsection thing that is what a lot of people focus on. So or whatever your own personal tightness I've heard is not quite there. Right. So it lifted it in the tightness. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's like in a different context like soft and squishy is like nice and

warm and, you know, it's like round or big or soft or squishy. Like, why do these have to be bad words about your belly? Like, bellies are kind of supposed to be round and soft and squishy. You know, some people don't have that, but I think typically that's more like the normal female shape is to have like some roundness around the belly area. Right. Well, like, Like she said, it's like this is what her, this is what happens when your body does, which, you know, is something that is biologically like that it's supposed to do. It's had a baby. It birth the baby and now it looks different. Yeah.

And she talks a lot about clothes, which I think is an important thing because she has a new body than she had before she had a baby, right? That's sort of, she's saying she lost the way. It's the body that's different. It's, that's probably not going to be changed fully back to the way it was. unless she had some sort of surgery or something like that. So let's say she has this new body. And she's saying, she talks a lot about how she wears clothes that are big and then she feels frumpy

or she wears clothes that are tight and then she feels large. I think it is, you know, you spend most of your life figuring out what looks good on you in the body that you have growing up. Yes. And now you have a new body. And I don't, I think the idea that you're going to magically immediately know how to dress this new

body probably adds to your stern. and your anxiety that you're like, nothing looks good. It's like, no, maybe you just haven't fully figured out what's going to make you feel good and confident in this new body of yours. And it's a little bit of trial and error and finding the top with the right shape that you feel good in. And I think that, you know, it's been seven months. It hasn't been seven years.

Yeah. No, she's very early on too. Yeah. Give yourself some time to like figure out what kind of tops you do get excited in going out. And I do feel for her that she's like, I don't, she doesn't even want to leave the house because she has this feeling of, I'm not excited to go out. I don't feel good in my skin. Yeah. Yeah. It's really hard. The tough part is like she's going to have these thoughts. She's recognizing them, which is important. You know, you're going to have these thoughts about, you know, your body or negative or my belly is too

round or, you know, this is squishy and this isn't tight and like you're going to have that thought, but I think it's important to recognize that you're having that thought and challenge it. Like, you know, not just accept that as a reality that you have this thought and now you have to internalize it. Like challenging your mindset instead of just accepting your mindset. But yeah, the clothes thing is hard because what happens is every day you wake up and you put on these clothes like you said that fit your old shape or that you're trying. to fit your new shape, but they don't really work.

I mean, I'll be honest with you just personally. I've said this to you before. Since having my kids, I rarely wear pants that have like a button and a zipper and like are not elastic because I just find that it when I pull on elastic pants, I don't have to stress about it like pinching me or hitting in the wrong spot or and look, we can talk to a stylist about this. I'm not a stylist, but I do think that there's something about wearing something that's so like one size that draws your attention every time you get dressed in the morning to whether it's like a symbolic of like fitting into this exact size that I bought, whether it's

five years ago or five weeks ago or five days ago and now you're bloated. It's like a checking that you're, oh, every time you get dressed, you're like checking your body size versus if you buy something that's elastic, which is I think why the athletic shirt took off because it has these nice, big, thick, wide waistbands. You could yank it up a little, you could pull it down a little, and it's not like this constant check-in of whether or not you're the same you were yesterday or the day before or the week before. So I really like the idea of not having your clothes be like your meter for the day of how you should feel about yourself. Well, it's like the clothes are changing to form whatever your body feels like that day

as opposed to you kind of having to squeeze into the clothes. Yes. Yes. So that's my own personal tip that I feel like has been helpful. It's like a pair of elastic waist pants. One day, you know, there are 10. The next day, they're a 12. And you don't really know the difference or feel the difference because.

But yeah, I think. This is hard and you're going to have to make up your mind to challenge your thoughts and like accept this new shape. And when I do meditation with people, one of the things I love to do is have them put their hands on their belly and breathe into like a big round soft belly. So you can kind of just really accept that there is like beauty and breath and mindfulness and pleasure and pleasantness and accepting. in a round, softened belly, that this like washboard abs thing isn't the only way to exist and love yourself. Yeah. I love that.

The intention that I wrote for her is kind of short and sweet, and I think it's helpful for anyone who's experiencing this is challenge my mind, accept my body. So your mind, whether it's the voices of society, or these girls that bullied you or your mother or your grandmother or your dad or whoever put this into your head commercials Victoria's Secret fashion show comments that is those voices create the inner dialogue in your mind and like challenge that notice it and challenge that while you're accepting this new shape that like you said has brought life into the world and you're sustaining that life and your breastfeeding.

So, like, you know, it's so beautiful. It's so much bigger than just your body. I know that she knows that, but sometimes it's hard to remember it. Yeah, and her body is also like this isn't the last shape her body's going to be in, I think. Yeah, it's going to continue to change again. Hence my saggy boobs. They keep dropping and dropping and dropping. Getting lower and lower.

Yeah. So, you know, and I think that's almost the hard part. Everyone wants like a set, like this is what it is. And it's hard because especially in this period, I'm sure, after postpartum, where our body now probably looks different than it did like a month ago. And it probably will still look different a month from now. Yes. I know what you meant by that was it could get change in a way that might make you feel,

that might be easier for you to accept. It could be. But it might change in a way that's harder for you to accept. The challenge is in accepting your body shape the way that it is and challenge the thoughts. that make your body not feel okay to you. All right. Let's do some triggers. All right.

I will read the first one. It's a long one. This is a long one. Buckle up. Here we go. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I love the pod. I've been a listener since the beginning,

and I am a U-Up subscriber. I have a triggered scenario for you. An important context that all ties into this. I'll try and keep it concise, but there's years worth of buildup to the trigger. We go. We're here for it. I have a friend, we'll call her Katie, who I used to be really close with.

We both had our first baby in the pandemic and we became really close friends and texted all the time. Then we get together with our babies as often as we could when lockdown lifted. She lives about an hour away, but texted constantly about dumb stuff and deep stuff. The only sport I follow is Formula One, which I've been into since 2015. It has become really popular in the U.S. because of the Netflix series about it. I got Katie watching the Netflix show. She loved it. And I taught her all about the rules in the history of the sport that you don't get from the show.

Since then, she's been a fan and watches all the races. When Katie was pregnant with her second baby in 2022, her husband, let's call him Steve, began exhibiting what would be eventually diagnosed as bipolar 2, where he gets manic episodes but not depressive ones. During his manic episodes, he would basically become a different person and become emotionally abusive or leave the house for days. About a year and several episodes later, Steve finally got on meds at work for him

and he hasn't had an episode in over a year. But in the process of getting him on meds, they discovered that he has a genetic blood and bone marrow cancer. In the fall of 2023, Katie and I decided to do a girls trip the following year in October, 24, to the Formula One race in Austin, Texas.

We made this plan after Steve's cancer diagnosis. We bought weekend tickets, it's about $400 each. Fast forward to summer of 2024. Katie stopped responding to my text. Since Steve's diagnosis, Katie had been texting less and gotten off social media and said she'd been avoiding her phone because of anxiety, which was understandable with so much to process.

But then she fully stopped responding. I was worried about her and for over two months regularly sent text checking in with no response. I have pages and pages of unanswered messages. This was also the time when we needed to look at flights and hotels for a trip or to cancel the trip if it wasn't going to happen. But no response on any of it. I eventually messaged Katie's mom via Facebook to see if she was okay. Her mom said she was in good spirits but wasn't really being social and that it wasn't personal to me.

After months of not hearing from Katie, I made the call to sell the tickets and Venmoed Katie her half, no response to the Venmo. I was fine with canceling the trip because I ended up being pregnant. with my due date a month after the trip would have been. It was a whoops pregnancy. But I was really irritated with her basically ghosting me on our plans. I empathize with her anxiety, but all I needed was a text saying she needed to cancel the trip. Eventually, Katie got back on her phone and thanked me for selling the tickets and said, sorry for being MIA and was hoping I wasn't mad.

She said other people were mad when she reached out, which made her get off her phone again. I was mad, but I was also sympathetic and didn't want to pile on. So I said it was okay and I understood and was just glad to hear from her. Now the triggered. Thanks for bearing with me. We got you. Context's important. Yes.

Yeah. Last weekend, Katie said she was staying at her moms with the kids for the weekend in my city and asked if we wanted to go to the zoo. She said Steve was hanging out with friends and having a weekend off from the kids. At the zoo, I asked if she ever gets days off breaks from the kids. And she said yes. In fact, in August, she's going to Europe for two weeks on a girl's trip and they are going to the F1 race in Amsterdam. She said, after I got her into F1, she joined an online chat group for women F1 fans and made a group of friends.

And she and four other girls are going to Paris, London, and Amsterdam for the race. I told her I was excited for her, even though it kind of hurt. She responded, why? Oh, because our trip didn't happen? I was so triggered. I've attached screenshots of the text that followed later that evening. Even though she technically apologized, I'm still really hurt and irritated. She never responded to my last text and it's been three days now.

So how triggered can I be? Curious to see what you make of this. Thanks for staying with me in the long email, sincerely left in the dust. Okay. So do you want to be the listener writing in or Katie? I will be the listener writing in. These photos are so cute. It was good to see you.

I appreciated you getting in touch. Sorry to be insensitive sharing about the upcoming trip. I cherish our friendship and was bummed our own friend trip didn't get to happen and hope we can do it one day for real. I appreciate you acknowledging it. I wasn't sure if I wanted to say anything. To be honest, it did really hurt my feelings. It felt really shitty to hear that you've created a community without me around something

that I originally shared with you and then seemed to prioritize these needs. newer friendships over ours. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying that's how it felt. I know you were struggling with your mental health last year and that your lack of contact wasn't personal to me. And you explained that, but it was really tough to have to make the call to cancel the trip and figure out what to do about the tickets by myself. So then hearing that you plan the same trip, but bigger with other people less than a year later, kind of made me feel like shit. Yeah, it was honestly under the impression that it was canceled ages before as soon as you realized your due date. It seemed way too close to risk booking hotels and flights, etc.

Seems like we should have had a conversation about it because I would have been okay with canceling it but was still down to go and wasn't automatically planning to cancel it. I tried to get in touch to have that conversation last fall but never heard back. Our friendship means a lot to me and another little group of people is not meant in any way to diminish or replace you. Honestly, it's kind of a relief that like only two of them even know about blanks cancer treatments. And and I get to kind of just talk about how much I, how much Lance stroll sucks at driving instead. Ha ha ha.

Kind of nice to have a little escapism friendship group that occupies a different section of the brain, but you're buried much deeper in my heart. Ha, ha, I understand that. And I'm not saying I don't want you to have this other friend group. And I'm genuinely excited for you to have this trip away to be your own person away from all the other stuff. I feel like we don't talk about stuff the way we used to and I miss it.

I know you have a lot on your play. I think about you guys a lot, but have wanted to give you space and not bring it up if you don't want to talk about it. I hope you know that I'm here for you if you ever do need want to talk about anything. Dumb stuff, deep stuff, hard stuff. I'm here for it. I guess I've been a little unsure since, sorry, I guess I've been a little unsure since the silence last summer about where things are between us. So I'm glad we're talking about it. I hope you can just see how the F1 thing just hit me sideways and poked at a sore spot.

Okay. So I do think the context of all of this is important. Seems like this is she's still pretty irritated at the friend after this. I think the main irritation comes from not double acknowledging how weird and irritating and messed up it was that she just didn't answer her for several months. Yeah. And it seems like she said that when she apologized for that originally when she came back, she stopped speaking to other people who were like mad at her about it. Right.

So it makes sense to me that she's like not answering this last text because she's like, I didn't really want to like, I said sorry and now I'm like, I don't want to like get into it again. Yeah. Yeah, that is, it's hard because it's kind of like she wants more of an addressing of the situation. I think what the listener wants is kind of like, we don't have to talk about this if you don't want to. Like if this is an escapism thing and you want to talk about F1 racing and not talk about cancer or what's going on, like I can do that. Like I could see her feeling like I don't know why you need to just totally transfer to this other group.

If you don't like, I'm here for whatever you want. We don't have to talk about it. We can talk about it. I could see why she's really hurt. And she didn't even invite her on the trip. Like. Right. I think the part about her introducing her to F1,

not that relevant. Like, okay, you can find a new hobby. If you don't own it then at that point. Right. I would let go of that part that was like, oh, this is my, you know, this was my hobby first. I would get rid of that.

I think it's more like, you didn't even tell me, like, you weren't, we had this trip planned. I never heard from you. That's like kind of painful. Yeah. And logistically weird.

I tried to get in touch with you. Like, I think she could say, like, I get why you didn't really want to speak to anyone, a text just saying that to me. Mm-hmm. And a text like explaining that would have been all I needed. And I do think that's like a little bit of a personality issue. If someone, it's okay to need space.

It's okay to say I don't really want to be like talking to anyone now. I'm not answering any texts. I'm not being in my phone. But say that. Don't just like disappear. Yeah. Even if you say that and then disappear, I think is reasonable. Right.

Like just say that. And then after that, if you don't want to answer and anything else. Like, yeah, I could definitely see why she's heard. I think even just the idea, I know you're saying, like, she doesn't own Formula One and, but like, I don't know, it's almost, you know, like if you, like we talked, probably got a Taylor Swift email, like you talked about going to the concert together. You find out that someone's, even like you said, we were going to watch a show together. And you find out that someone watched that show with someone else. It's like, hey, we were supposed to watch that together. Now you didn't answer me.

for months and now you're watching that show going to that race with other people. I could see why she's really hurt. Look, give this friend some grace. She's going through like the worst possible thing. Clearly quite avoidant. Yeah, quite avoidant. I thought, I will say, I think this listener communicated herself really beautifully. Like I liked the way she expressed herself.

I like the way she said, like I'm here for you, whatever you need. Here's how I feel. she wasn't combative. I think right now your friend is just like her tank is like totally empty. She cannot tolerate any more conflict or any of this, which is probably why she didn't reach back out. But yeah, this is triggering. I also think there is a certain kind of person that doesn't maintain, like she said they're

not like childhood friends. They met in the pandemic, right? They met around this thing of having their kids together. around the, not to say, not to diminish the depth or the meaning of their friendship, but I think it's more speaking to this person. And I think there are some people like that. It's not always obvious who they are where they kind of cycle through friends because they don't really want to be like confronting anyone or they don't want to work through an issue with someone or they don't want to work through something. So they just find a new crew. It's almost,

it's almost like a dating where it's like the person doesn't want to like deal with the issues that they have with the person. So they just break up and date someone. else and never resolve it. I wonder if that is a pattern for this person. I do think there are people that are so avoidant that it's like I'd rather just find new friends than like deal with the emotional, you know, baggage of maybe doing something that upset somebody. Like I'd rather just avoid it and start fresh. Right. Then have to handle that. That is a good point. It does seem like that's what's happening because, again, not that it's that's so short ago, but they did meet in the pandemic. It's not like she knows her and she knows the way that her friend cycles work.

And that is a person. I've met this person before. Yes. And they have a lot of friends that friendships, I think, that sort of cycle in and out. Yes. And this group of friends, they probably have like no expectations of her. They're like, oh my God, the fact that we're even like meeting up one time ever in life is like the coolest thing. I have no expectations of you. Like if she never responded to them again, it would probably be like, okay, that was a girl that we once did that cool trip together. And that was like it. Right. And if they, if she, I bet you if she gets into anything with any of them or has, you know, it goes through anything on her own.

The same thing is going to happen with this group. So it feels really personal. I agree it's really triggering the way that she's sort of like not fully acknowledging how weird it is that she was just completely avoided her. but I don't think it's personal. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, there's only one way to find out if this is your friend, you know, and it's to have a conflict with them. And this is the interesting thing.

I know maybe we'll just kind of tease it a little bit if we end up doing it. But I think sometimes we got an interesting email from a listener and they might want to come on the show perhaps about like, I want to confront this conflict with this person. and they want to just sweep it under the rug and move on. And sometimes that just feels like I can't, like if you instead of that last long paragraph would have written like, no problem, totally get it, you guys might be chit chatting again and texting again. But because you like wanted to like kind of wrap it up and have some closure, now she

feels like she's out again. And you like literally, you might not hear. hear from her again for months. I don't think it would be the craziest thing because that's what happened before. So I do think sometimes there's a compatibility factor with friendships of like there are friendships. Like we're both, I'm willing to sweep it under the rug. You're willing to sweep it under the right. That's great. This works for us. And when you have a conflict, I'm like, I'm willing to sweep it under the rug. I don't really like the feeling of sweeping things under the rug. Sometimes that can be a little friendship can be friendship ending. Yeah. That's a great point.

And people don't talk, I mean, people don't talk about the nuanced dynamics of many different friendships, but I think this is definitely one of them. Yeah. And it happens in romantic relationships too, but with friends, it, you know, it can feel a little bit more casual. Yeah. And in the romantic relationship, I think people can stand a little taller and prouder of like, I'm addressing this because I need to be with a partner that knows how to communicate. And so, like, I'm not going to second guess myself because community, everyone knows, like, communication is one of the most important things. of like a, you know, romantic partnership. So like you could be like, if you're not communicating, you're the problem.

But in these friendship situations, it might just be a little bit like, oh, that's not really their style. Yeah. I have this friend. They don't really like, like to go there. But I have many other friends who do. Right. So it's fine.

Yeah. Agreed. I'd give this a six. Yeah. I agree. I just think I just bearing it down to like she didn't even tell her she was going to cancel. then like right after she finds out finally gets back in touch with her. She's like, not only did I not tell you about whether or not we were doing our trip,

but I booked an identical trip with a bunch of random people that I just met online. Right. So yeah, I agree. I'll give it a six. Yeah. At least like don't mention that the trip is about Formula One. Just say you're going on a trip with some friends. Yeah.

Yeah, it seems like she's like a little oblivious to how, just to how rude that was. Yeah. All right. Let's do one more. We have a voicemail. And again, if you want to leave a voicemail, you can call 646-363-6294. Love a voicemail. Let's roll the tape. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I'm a big fan. I just wanted to call about something that I ran into this weekend.

So my boyfriend and I share a birthday. So we got a hotel in a big city near us and went to dinner and had a whole fun planned night. So another side story, I started a GLP 1 about two months ago, and I've lost 22-ish pounds, and I was kind of talking about it, how I was happy, and I said to my boyfriend, is it noticeable? And he said, not really. And, of course, I have had two or three drinks by this point start crying at the dinner, embarrassingly. and we get in a whole, not fight, but I'm upset the whole night, and it affects the whole night where he,

I'm very sensitive about this topic, and he was saying to me, his message she was trying to get across is it's not that it's not noticeable, it's that he didn't see anything wrong with my body to start, so he wasn't super hyper aware of what looks smaller or checking out my body every time I change to see if I'm looking any skinnier. so he just said he honestly hasn't been paying attention. And to me that was very triggering because I was kind of thinking like, oh, I need to work harder.

It's not noticeable. Like I'm a failure, blah, blah, blah. And basically I just ruined the whole night. We went back to the hotel and I was crying and it just caused a whole hour and a half long conversation going in circles. And yeah, then, of course, I felt really guilty for it affecting the night and his birthday. Yeah, we were going to go out for drinks and kind of bar hop together. And the whole plan just kind of got ruined. So I felt so much guilt then.

So there was just a lot of layers in that. And yeah, I was definitely very triggered. I know it's a lot of me projecting in my own problem, but I'm really curious to hear your guys' thoughts. Thank you. Bye. Thank you for the voicemail. Yeah.

I love voice smells. I love hearing. Like it sounds like maybe Midwestern accent or Canadian or something. It's super cute. Love hearing your voice. Yeah, this is interesting because I definitely get her perspective of like, I'm doing all this. I want you to notice it. But I also think it's kind of sweet that he's like, I'm not like hyper like analyzing the shape and size of your body.

Like I look at you. I think you're beautiful. He didn't say this, but I'm assuming if they're together. Right. He's attracted to her. Like it is a good example. of like we are so hard on ourselves and like examining like every little bit of like how something looks and fits and feels and someone who you're physically intimate with is just like I'm not

thinking about all the nitty gritty details of your body. I'm just like being with you and enjoying you. Right. Yeah. I see both ways because I think it's a little bit damned if you do damned if you don't where he's like, yeah, you look so much better than you did a few months ago. Like you look amazing. Like that might reinforced this feeling of, you know, he was unattracted to me before and he just didn't say anything. And now, like, I do think you could sort of spiral from any answer about this question. So I do feel for men a little bit around this topic because it is a little bit of a, damned if you do, damned if you don't notice these kinds of things a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, but I do understand the triggered aspect of where she is, where she's like, I'm working so hard at this thing. And one of the things about, obviously, you want to look the way you want to look for yourself, but you're in a like romantic sexual partnership. And I do think there's this idea of like being attractive to your partner is not something that's not part of the reason that you're doing this. And I think it's motivating to hear from your partner that you look really good and that you see all the work that you're doing and it uh you know you're you look amazing and i'm so attracted and blah blah blah and you know i i'm so in awe of how much work you put into this and all that stuff like

i do think being recognized is like part of the motivation that she has for doing this so when he's like yeah i don't even really like think about what you look like it can feel like well now i don't feel motivated or now I don't feel seen for how much work I put into this thing, which, and that's kind of a thing in relationships, I think, where it's like one person cares a lot about this thing. And so you, but you want the, you want the partner to value what you do, even if they just don't really value it as much, because it's part of what you're bringing to the table in a sense, in your mind. Right. I get that point. I really, I do. I get that point. And maybe the only thing I think he probably could have done better is to say that, like,

I'm so attracted to you. I think you're so beautiful. I thought you were beautiful then. I think you're beautiful now. But I do think it comes back to the conversation we were having before about the postpartum body where it's like, if someone says like, oh, my gosh, you know, oh, you've just had a baby. You look great. Then there's this feeling of like, I have to maintain this or people that lose weight. And someone's like, oh, you look amazing.

it's like that's not always helpful. Yes, it acknowledges that you've worked hard. Right. That you're putting effort. But then it's like if I stop. Yeah. Then are they going to think I look great? So I kind of, I like the boyfriend's response. I think his response is like, if you want to do this for you, it makes you feel better when you zip up your pants or you like catch yourself in a mirror. That's great. But for me, like I was attracted to you before. I'll be attracted to you if you go back to that weight or that size or whatever it is. Like I'm not, this isn't an issue for me. Like I kind of like the way you look no matter what. So I get what you're saying that it's sort of like you want your effort to be acknowledged. But I think it's kind,

I think if she could shift her mind to think this is so sweet. It's a low pressure situation. Like if you wanted to stop taking the medicine or you wanted to go back to the way you were before that he's not going to. Yeah. And I agree. in a long-term partner, it's not, it's not great to have your body be micromanaged by your partner. Right. Of like, oh, yeah, I noticed that your clothes are not wearing fitting the same way as they. Like, that does feel stifling and I think a little anxiety written to the idea that someone you're with is hyper fixated on small changes in your body. Not that this is small, but I can see the other way too.

Yeah. Or even like that feeling of like, oh, you lost weight or this or that. they're like super into you now. It's kind of like, oh, well, if I'm, if I'm not or if I change, like now you're going to change how attracted you are or how often you want to have sex or be intimate or. Right. So I get it. I get that you're working hard at this and you're proud of yourself and you kind of want him to be proud of you. And maybe if I was talking to him, I'd be like, you know, maybe address the effort as like one separate thing. Like I admire the effort that you've put into this and but the actual outcome like I'm just as attracted to you and I

think this is a thing that people you know assume and this is for like any relationship but I think specifically in heterosexual relationships that like you assume that your partner wants you to be like smaller and smaller is better like a lot of people like we were talking about a few minutes to go, don't mind around and squishy. Right. They kind of like it. They feel like it's womanly and shapely and soft and feminine or whatever. So I would take it if that's what you're getting.

I validate the hard work that he's maybe not acknowledging that. Or maybe you just feel like unnoticed in general and that that might be a different issue. Like if you just generally feel like my boyfriend's like not paying any attention to me, that he doesn't even. Or is he attracted to me? Right. Like you get a haircut and they don't notice. It's like you're not even looking at me.

That doesn't feel good. Like I want to feel like there's an attention there. Yeah. So that part I could definitely validate if it's like, oh, I didn't even notice, you know? Like you went from like brunette to blonde. Oh, I didn't even notice. It's like, what? Right.

Are you even looking at me? You know? Well, that's kind of, I think, I think that's a bigger part than maybe we're acknowledging to an extent. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe there, and again, if there is that bigger issue in this relationship where you feel like he's not even paying attention to you, or maybe he's not initiating sex, or maybe he's not saying nice things or giving you compliments or affirmation, I would address that separately from the weight issue. I think the way he handled the weight issue, like, I like it. You look great before. You look great now. You want to go back to how you were before. I'd be perfectly fine with it. But I think if it is this bigger issue, like he doesn't even. notice me or look at me or like say nice things well that's sort of what he said is i didn't really even notice like if he had said you look great i thought you look great before not like oh you did

love lose 22 but like yeah i had no i had no idea yeah yeah so that might be the issue like i you know i think there is this thing in a couple relationship where like you take off your clothes and get in the shower and you're like are you noticing like right that I'm naked. Do you care? Are you interested? Like, you know, so yeah, I could see that that that probably is a bigger part of this. But I think that can be a separate issue that maybe you address than like the weight issue is like, are you looking at me? Are you noticing me? Are you sexually attracted to me? Right. And maybe that's what she's feeling. But if you drinks in, she just hears, I didn't notice and that's triggering. Yeah. No, I definitely validate her being

triggered by this. But I think the fact that she doesn't have a pressure to stay this way is really nice. I agree. I'd give it a four. Yeah. I'd give it a four with the idea that this is like information for you and him to maybe have a different conversation of like, I would like to feel like, you know, maybe you verbalize more that like, yeah, yep, that you see me, that you're attracted to me, that you notice.

things about how I look that you like. So yeah, this is a good, good information for a conversation. Agreed. All right. Well, this was great. We helped some people. Thanks for listening. Yeah, thanks for listening.

Hope this helps. We love updates. Give us updates. Yeah. And if you're interested in coming in and having a real life conversation with us, we are interested in talking to you too. So hit us up. But for now, that's our time.

Great work today. Betches.