Oversharing - Am I Living My Life Out Of Order?

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi discuss what it means to encourage your kids’ interests without projecting your own onto them. Our Overshare comes from a Betch who worries about what suburban life will be like without children. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who loves her mother, but feels embarrassed by her behavior in public. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for letting go of the need to control and correct other people. And we’re feeling triggered by friends who don’t make the effort, and discarded gifts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How are you?

How is it going? It's going great. Busy day. It seems like a busy day for you too. Yes. I'm at the Spotify offices, actually. in the financial district. Ooh.

Because the Bech's podcasting studio is under construction. Okay. So they were kind enough to let us use their facilities. So I just did you up and now I'm doing oversharing. And I'm like ready to go. The views from here are insane. You can see like the entire city. It's crazy.

Oh, so nice. That's nice. Stare off at that while you're recording or in between. Yes. And the snack situation here can't be beat. Oh, gosh. What are you got? They've got a full coffee bar, pirates booty, seaweed snacks.

Like, none of that cheap shit. They've got the good stuff. Yeah. That's good stuff. That's good. It's all like Cool Ranch Doritos. It'll just make your breath stink for the rest of the day. And like, yeah.

No, they're like healthy. It's very new age corporate American office. But like, you know, millennial. Like they have all like the snacks and the perks and all that stuff you see. Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. Speaking of snacks, one thing that I was going to bring up with you, unless you had something else that on your mind to chat about.

Let's talk about snacks. Well, it's not exactly snacks. It's almost like, I think, and maybe some of our listeners can relate, we've talked in the past about like maximizing life, right? Like when that woman sent in her engagement photo and the mother-in-law like retouched it and post it. and posted it, like just taking whatever you have and seeing how you can make it that much better. And I was thinking about how sometimes I do that with my actual kids. How so? Like if they're, and I guess I related to snacks to where I'm kind of like, what kind of, you know, and I guess it's somewhat normal.

You're like, okay, I want to give them healthy, nutritious snacks. And like, I want to, you know, them to grow tall. and I want them to be healthy, but sometimes it can get a bit much where you're sort of like, I know that they have an aptitude towards something. And then I get kind of like, ooh, let's turn this into something.

Can you give me an example? An example. Perfect example. Brooks is six. He's in first grade. He's a really good athlete. So I think, like personally that like, excites me, you know? Because I was an athlete and I get like excited about it. And so I'm like,

he likes to play football. He loves football. He loves the Kansas City Chiefs. He's like obsessed with the whole thing. We live in Texas. Football, Texas, Chiefs, some of the girls love Taylor Swift. It's like a perfect like combo of stuff. All America. It feels really good. And so I'm not, I can't, I catch myself not be like, okay, this is great. He loves football. He gets excited about the chiefs. They're winning. So he's, you know, I think he's pretty good for his age.

He's good at throwing the ball. So Jeff and I were talking. We're like, maybe we should get him like a coach, like a football, because he's on a team, but the coaching, there's like a parent coach. He's better than everyone else on the team. I get it. I hope nobody's listening. But, um, yes.

But, um, no. I just, I'm kind of like, he's not really getting coached to his potential. Now, he's six, right? Like, I'm aware of this in the back of my mind. But anyway, we, you know, we're looking online. It's like right before bed. And Jeff's finding this like football, like a, you know, a football coach for him. So we end up booking an appointment with this football coach that's like he coaches like

the backup quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys. Ooh, fancy. And he does six-year-olds? So I don't think he really does six-year-olds, but I reached out to him, and I'm kind of like, I have a six-year-old, and I think he has an aptitude. And, you know, will you meet with him? And they're like, his name is Brooks Bernstein. Okay, what are you saying? So is he automatically who you would think would be great as football?

Yes, no, not. So we set up this meeting. We meet with this coach. The guy's like legit. It's on this like legit field. He's showing him all these moves. And then I come home and I'm almost having this like like a fantasy. No, like the opposite after it.

I'm like, what am I doing? Like this is ridiculous. He's six. Like he could barely even like wipe his own butt by himself. And he's going to like this perfect. professional football coach where I know that my own parenting mindset is more like, and one of my patients was just talking about this today, like, you should parent like a gardener, not a carpenter, right? Like you plant the seed in the soil, you give it the love, you give it what it needs, and then you let it grow into whatever it's going to grow into. But isn't that what you're doing? But you're not like, you're not like, oh, I'm stopping him from doing things that he loves so that he can get better at football. You're, to me, this is the equivalent of, like, getting him a bigger pot.

You know, if he's a plant, you're, you're changing the pot to be a bigger pot so that he can grow more effectively. He's outgrown the old pot. I guess that's a, that's a lovely way to look at it. And I will take, I feel like I'm going to, like, the GMO superstore to buy, like, the artificial feed. and like, you know, inject hormones into the plant to, like, make it grow faster than what. That's what it felt like to me that I was like.

To me, you're so far from that. Like, you could never be that. I think almost by your fear of that shows like you could never be like stage mom crazy. But I think it's good that you're thinking about it, like the reasons behind why you're doing all this stuff. Yeah. And I was mindful. I was like, you know, like sports are my thing. And he's like, you know, he loves it.

And he's passionate. good. And I, and I, I just was like, after we left this coaching thing, I was kind of like self-aware. Like, this is a little much. This is a little ridiculous. Like, I almost like didn't want him telling anybody about it. I think it would only be so much and so ridiculous if he didn't want to do it. No, yeah. No, he wanted to do it. He was like, cloud nine. To me, that's like with a question to ask yourself if you're doing all these things. Like, is it for me or is it for them? or is it, you know, if it's an opportunity and I have the means to do it and they are going to really love it and it's, you know, I think anything that gets a kid off their screen or a phone

that's in the real world, they're moving and they're outside is kind of great. I don't see the issue with it personally. Okay. Unless he was like, I want to go play with my friends and you're like, no, you have to be a football star. Right. And like, I'm, you know, you're got to support. the family financially with your future. Like, yes. No, it's definitely not that. It is exactly what you said. Like I love nurturing a part of him that's like, you know, he's passionate.

He's outside. He's not on a screen. He's, you know, moving his body and like focusing. So I do think it's coming from a good place, but I almost felt like this is a little bit. Right. Much for a six-year-old. Right. Well, in your quest, and I know this is important to you to have.

your kids be extremely average. I know that that's something that you've been trying to instill in them since mediocrity. Yeah, this does go against that, I guess, trying to get him better at something. But I also think, like, if he could be the next star of whatever, like, he will thank you for this one day. Yeah. And even if he's not, he'll be like, oh, I gave it a shot. Like, I really got into it. Yeah. I do, I really struggle, I think, personally, and I don't know if other parents in here can relate. to this kind of like, you know, just like letting them unfold, how they're going to unfold, and then also like being, seizing every opportunity to like maximize every potential that you see in them where it's like, and it, you know, I just notice it in other areas where like if, you know,

one of the girls is doing well in school, I'm kind of like, okay, you got to apply for this competition. Like, why don't you do this? Why don't you do like? Well, you're almost like emotionally masturbating their future. It's a weird term to use when you're talking about that. But like you're kind of like getting a high off of well, what is potential. They're a doctor and I have a daughter that's a doctor or my son's a football star. Like it is a little bit about you in like that kind of like you're like dreaming or like romanticizing their future. Yes. That you hit that's what it is. And I don't when I catch that happening, I don't like the way it feels where I'm like, it's now. Like they are now, what they are like, like who they are is right now.

And I want to sink into this moment of enjoying them right now, not like you said, emotionally masturbating my way into their future of like, you know, what they could be one day, which I have to stop and catch myself and be like, it really doesn't matter. Right. Like, well, I think a little bit of that is okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like it's, I think it's like human and it's real, like to date someone and to say like never think about what your wedding will be like, like, because that's wrong. I feel like you wouldn't give that advice either because you'd say like, it's okay to like imagine a future for them that's with them, this person that's exciting. But if that's all you're doing, then you're not enjoying the relationship now, that would be bad. But if you're every now and then you think about like, oh, we like, we'd be like, our kids would be so cute. You wouldn't be like. That's awful. Yes.

And that's where my mind goes. And I think it's fine. I just think I had this, especially like the football thing was a perfect example of like, because I'm watching the other kid that's in line behind me. And he's like a sophomore in high school. You know, so it's like, what am I doing? Well, this is, I felt a little crazy. But yeah, so I think just the awareness of, and I don't think it was bad.

He loved it. It was a cool experience. Like I think it made him feel cool. Like he had like a professional coach. So no harm, no foul. But for me, I come to this awareness of within reason, playing your children's future, the same way we do for ourselves. Like, we do that for ourselves all the time.

Like, I'm going to play out my future. It felt a little icky more so doing it with our kids when it's kind of like, I don't know my feelings on what his future or their future is going to be shouldn't be really part of the equation. Like it should be coming from them. I mean, in an ideal world, right? If we're all like the best version of ourselves at all times. But I think in the scheme of like living vicariously through your children, you're probably doing better than most.

Okay. I'll take it. Yeah. But I like that. Now I'm going to have to catch him in a game or something. Oh, yeah. You should come visit. It's really very adorable.

Yeah. It's cute. And so like another one, right? So he comes home from school yesterday. he's like, four girls have a crush on me. Ooh. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then I'm like, he's going to be like a player.

He's not going to be a nice boy. I have to let him know. Like, you only get one girlfriend at a time. Meanwhile, he's like over it. Like, he's not even thinking about that. But I'm like playing forward, like how to prevent him from being a douchebag. Because like four six-year-olds have a crush on him. Right.

I think to prevent the douchebagginess, you just have. have to see the, like, you have to respect your mom and respect women and see your dad treating your mom nicely. Yeah. And I think that's, to me, that's like probably most of it. All right. I would guess. And then, yeah. I'll take your word for it. The guys with all the options, actually, I feel like are nicer to women because they're not like trying to prove anything. Yeah. That might be true. In my experience, anyway, like the hot, you know, the hot commodities are sometimes like more, they're not like manipulating anyone. Yeah, they could just be more honest, I think, which is all I would ask for from like a guy in the dating world is honesty. You can't

like force commitment. You can just force honesty. If I notice him getting out of hand, I'll have a word with him. Yes, please do. I mean, he does have two older sisters who I also hope eventually we'll keep him in check. But yeah, his aunt Jojo can come in and give him a little talking to. Yes, we'll have him on the podcast. Why are you doing this, Brooks? How many first grade girlfriends do you have? How funny would that be if we interviewed him about his first grade love life? That would be pretty amazing. I would love it.

We'll let him maintain his privacy for now. But we'll watch how he dates as he gets into middle school or something. Sounds good. All right. All right. Let's do some other people's issues. If you guys have a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail at 646-3636-26-294. or you can email us your question.

We get some great questions at oversharing at betches.com. I will read our first overshare. Okay. Hey, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I love the pod and I've been a fan of Betches since the early days. We live in a big city.

Over the past year, most of my friends had moved to the suburbs, 30 minutes away as they started having kids. Me and my husband, we are in our early 30s, feel ready to move to the suburbs, but unfortunately we are having fertility issues and I'm not pregnant yet. So a child is still,

at least a year away in the best case. I'm scared if I move, it will be hard being in a kid-centric world without children, but at the same time, I'm ready to move into the suburbs as we had originally planned by the end of this year. We are ready for a bigger place, including an outdoor area and a normal-sized kitchen that we can really invest in, which we can't get in the city. Do you have any advice for how to continue moving through life, even if you can't control all the external factors? When do you change your plans or decide to persevere if things haven't happened according to how you imagined. Jordana, did this impact you at all

when you moved to the suburbs? Thanks so much. Ready for the quiet life fetch. All right. Great question. Great question. I'm going to let you start on this because you're kind of living this right now.

Sure. Yeah. Definitely can relate to this, heavy relate. And I think I have moments where, you know, I felt like I don't belong here in the suburbs. Or I don't feel like this makes sense. like, you know, to have like a big house with no kids in it.

I can sometimes feel a little bit weird. Or if you're around, you know, most of the people that you're around in the suburbs usually do have kids. So there is like a little feeling of like, is this makes sense for me and totally validate that feeling. But I think that those feelings are smaller than like your day to day life. And like the way I see it is like I'm preparing for the life that I do want. And there's a lot of things that I'm doing out.

here in the suburbs, including, like, renovating and making my house, like, a house that I want to raise kids in that I think would be a lot harder to do if I had a little kid who didn't want to go to the marble yard on a Saturday. Right. Or, like, do all these things, right, have a lot more. Because it is stressful creating the home that you want. And so there is a perk in, like, I'm doing it in this other order that wouldn't be my first choice of order.

But I think that, like, if you think about anything. anything, there's like positives and negatives. So the positive of this is I have more time to focus on this because I'm not focusing on raising a child at the moment. And then when the child does come, I'll have the house already. It does, it feels counterintuitive to like move to the space without the things to fill it. But when I think of it practically, like it actually is helpful. And I do believe like the longer I've been going through this, the more I'm kind of like, I'm going to live the life that I want to live right now. And I'm not going to wait for certain things to happen to live the life that I want to live. And I think about that in terms of like dating and other stuff. Like if you

want to, a lot of people are like, I don't want to go to that city because I want to go there with a boyfriend or I want to go there with my husband. And I don't think that's the right way to look at it. I think if you want to travel to a place, you should go there right now. Like you might not have it tomorrow. And it might not even be better when you have all those things. So, you. And, you. You know, I'm thinking about it. I'm not saying I don't get caught up in this mindset of I don't belong here or why am I here or like I feel left out. Like I definitely have moments of that.

But I do think on the whole, I'm kind of like, this is a great life regardless. And, you know, it'll get better in certain ways, maybe in the future. But even if it didn't, and this thing. the mindset I practice is like the life I have now is great and it will hopefully be great in this other way once I have kids. But there's a lot of positives to my circumstances in the moment. Totally. And the thing I really love about what you said is like not getting fixated on the order with which your life unfolds, which I think happens a lot because there's like so many different ways where you're like, well, it's supposed to happen this way. I'm supposed to like date someone and then

marry them and then have kids or like however your career fits in there. And sometimes you date someone and then you have a kid accidentally right away before you can get married and like, that's okay. And then maybe your career gets put off and you don't get to do it until you're later. Maybe that's, there's so many things that are out of our control that even to think that you can control the order of these things is like almost like a god complex you know like if they happen at all that's great we don't have a lot of control in general but to want to control not only how they happen but the order in which they happen it's almost like asking for i'm not right validated i'm not like invalidating the idea but i like the idea of like this is going to happen the least i could do is

accept the order in which it happens totally and i think like gratitude does make you take you out of that like seeking mindset again of like you know I'm maybe I'm not lucky in this way but I'm really lucky in this other way and like a lot of people feel the way that I feel about wanting kids about something with their career or about you know they have kids or they can't afford a house or something like that like I think the idea of sure life isn't perfect but um where I'm going to meet myself where I'm at and enjoy the things that I am really lucky about because you do kind of take those for granted when you focus on what's lacking. Totally. And this, I mean, I've said this, I think, before, but this is why when I do my

groups, I love the fact that I'll put people like with all different stuff in the group. There's like the person that doesn't have kids that wants kids. There's a person that has kids that's overwhelmed by those kids. There's a person that had a kid when they were 20, that now doesn't have a career and you put them all together and it does make you in some ways like have that perspective of like I'm grateful for what I have because the other thing that I think that I want comes with its own challenges. So like I really love that. A lot of groups are very much focused on like, okay, here's an infertility group and everyone's going through infertility and we're all kind of coming at it from the same perspective, which doesn't allow you to have that zoom out like

gratitude. So yeah, I definitely can see. I'm sure there's moments where like, you know, you're walking around and someone's like, oh, like, where are your kids and whatever? Like, I don't have any, you know, I'm sure that moment is like a little pang of something. Or you can't relate to someone or you see there's a big event happening. But the moments in between, like for this listener, it sounds like what you're saying is that you're able to kind of like enjoy all the millions of moments in between those few moments where it like comes and hits you and feels like, okay. Right.

I think a harder part for me maybe it was like in the beginning was like wondering if everyone's wondering why I don't or like, you know what I mean? Like thinking about what everyone is like the judgment of anyone else around why I'm here or what's, you know, why I'm here without kids when everyone else does. I think that was a big part of it. like but then it's kind of like once you think that through I kind of like play that out and I'm like okay let's say there are like yeah she doesn't have kids that's kind of weird why she here so what right like if that's the worst thing someone could think about you totally or even if they know and they feel bad for you like okay okay right right I'm breathing really living like if they're not going to think

about that they're going to think about you know something else about you that like the way that your parenting or why you didn't do this or, you know, it's not one thing, it's another. So, yeah. Totally. Yeah, I feel like aversion therapy for me, like doing it to myself is almost like the best thing for me. It's like if I think about the thing that I'm anxious of and whether that's like something financial or something about like kids or something like that. And I like, just like face it, like the monster, you kind of like face the monster. Okay, like let's say this fear happens, right? Let's like play it out. Okay, we play it out. this person's thinking this, that's my fear.

Okay. Right. Like, it's fine. Like life goes on. Yes. And even if there's a moment, like even if it did make you feel so terrible that you cried or so terrible that you were in a bad mood for an hour or whatever. And even that, okay, it'll pass.

Right. You know, so yeah, I like that mindset. And I do think for this listener to go through and be like, okay, so what's the worst case scenario that someone looks. you and says, oh, I wonder why she bought that house. She doesn't even have kids. That's, like, annoying. And no one would say that's your base, but like if they say it behind your back, it would be rude. It's not nice. But like, okay.

Fine. Right. Yeah. And I think that's true. For me, it's true of almost all fears. Like, I have a fear. I spend too much on tiles. Like maybe I could have gotten them cheaper. That's another. And I'm like, all right, let's play that out. Like I think about that it bothers me all day. I think it play it out. All right. You overspent on tiles. Let's say that's a fact. Let's say. Okay.

Right. Like, okay. Yes, you're not going to be thinking about that. And what helps me sometimes when I have these thoughts is like, think about something that to this day on whatever it is, October, whatever, 10 years ago, what were you thinking about? What were you stressing about? I'm sure it was something, whatever it was. I don't even know. That's like completely gone.

It's over. Right. You were so worried about that thing and how that thing was going to turn out, what that person thought about you when you wore that dress to that party and you had that pimple or whatever the thing was. And it's like, it's totally gone. And this, the tiles or the thing, whatever it is, that will be totally gone one day as well. And so will you.

Yeah. To keep it in perspective. Yes. But yeah, I validate. the fear, I think you should live your life, do what you want to do, and everything will fall into place eventually. Yeah. All right. Moving right along.

Let's do a betraces. You ready? I will read this. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. I love the podcast, and I'm looking for some advice. I'm the only daughter. I do have an older brother of a widowed single mom. As a result of our shared gender, many shared interests and her single parenthood, we have always been close.

Even as an adult, I've made sure to prioritize making time for her. However, she has also historically been unkind and impatient with other people and sometimes me, but that's not currently a problem. She's not always like this, but it happens regularly enough that it is a problem. I'm tired of our time together being ruined by it. It usually looks like this. Someone does something she thinks is dumb or annoying. and she snaps, telling them off or even shoving them or hitting,

kicking, shoving their things. Cars and grocery cards are items she's targeted. This behavior, yeah, it's weird. That's a lot. This behavior is deeply embarrassing for me and I've often found myself apologizing for her and telling her it's not okay to treat people like that,

but her rage has also resulted in her running and hiding from people who've reacted with violence in return. This sounds really, uncomfortable. This is crazy. Even if it wasn't shameful for me, it's horrible to treat people like that, especially when it's a shop worker. I've worked as a server in the past, and I know how hard it can be to take

that kind of behavior, and how much it can brighten your day when people are kind. The most recent incident occurred when she was asked to check her backpack at a store with a no backpack policy. There were locked lockers and a security guard, so the items were safe. I also said we could leave or put it in the car trying to get ahead of the reaction. I could see bubbling. She proceeded to argue with the security guard saying, what the fuck? This bag is the same

size as a purse. Why the fuck do I need to do that? Et cetera. During this, I said, mom, please just let this go or leave. And this is really embarrassing for me. Please stop. It ruined the activity for me. Hours later, I'm so sad and ashamed that this is the way she treats a low-wage worker just doing their job. When I've brought this behavior up, she has said that I'm too hard on her. Most of the time she's nice. I don't notice her good behaviors. I really do try to praise her good traits. And subsequently, nothing changes. I really want to spend time with her and I like most things about her, but I can't take any more of this. She claims she's not angry or emotional in these situations and will not seek therapy to work on managing her anger. Do I just need to accept this behavior? Surely I don't. How do I create a boundary

around this behavior. Should I just spend less time with her? That last one makes me feel sad to even consider help, signed in need of anger, momagement. Interesting. Usually with these, it's like the person doesn't like the crazy person, but it does seem like in this case,

she actually, like, loves and does want to spend time with her mom. Yeah, it's like a Jekyll and Hyde. Like, she's great. She likes her. She likes spending time with her. And then she just snaps on someone and turns into, like, rage monster. Unatic, yeah.

I mean, this is very embarrassing. You definitely validate that. I can't imagine being with the person who's doing that. Yeah, no, unacceptable behavior. It's putting her actually in a dangerous position if she's, like, picking fights with people, strangers, and they've, like, come back at her. Come for her.

Or attacking her. So I definitely think there needs to be some boundary here, which she's aware of. And it doesn't have to be cutting off your mom. And it doesn't have to be not spending time with her. I mean, what comes to mind immediately is, like, just spend time with her not in public places. Right.

Yeah, I would say that. I think I would say that. She clearly doesn't agree with your assessment that she's being rude, which is kind of annoying. I assume she's not the only person who said that to her, like in her life. But clearly she has some, like, unexamined rage. Yeah, and it also, I mean, there is a bit of, like, a little, some kind of a manipulative gas-lady thing when she's like,

I don't have rage or anger issues. You don't see the good things I do when she's just so clearly acting in a way that's not acceptable at all. And then she's turning it into like, you don't see the good things about me and I have no problems. And like this is not an issue. Right. Well, to me, like this, yeah, I totally agree with you. The solution is like, all right, we don't have to hang out less, but I'm not going out in public with you because I don't want to be embarrassed like that. And I don't like very, that's, I mean, that's what I would do. You can come over. You can

order Chinese food, pizza, sit inside, watch a movie. You know, even if you did something that was like outdoor nature that didn't involve any other humans, that would be good. Maybe the movies, if you get there before she has time to interact with anyone. Yeah. I mean, that would be scary too. Like the ticket take her. I don't know what her. There's rules places. It seems like at least the way maybe she's describing it. It's not. She's kicking people's shopping carts. Like, I don't know what these people are doing to her to. I can't imagine if it happens all the time that it's she's nothing to do with it. No. Yeah, 100%. Even whatever, even if she didn't have anything to do with it. Like, you don't need to curse at someone or kick their belongings. So this is definitely an issue,

her issue. I would try that. Just try. And if she really wants to go shopping with you, then maybe she'll be motivated enough to change this. And if she's mad at you because you don't want to go in public with her, then let her be mad at you. Yeah. That's another, like you kind of said, like to me, the solution is simple and the fact that she continues to go out with her shows that she doesn't want her to be mad at her or like have a negative interaction with her, which, I mean, I get it because she sounds like scary when she's mad. I get that, but also like you're an adult, you don't have to be around her. Yeah.

Yeah, it is, you know, there's a hard thing, I think, sometimes when you have single parents where it really feels like you're responsible for their emotions in a lot of ways, like they're all alone. And I think it's common to feel like I can't abandon this person or it's hard to set boundaries with this person. And so I think that's a common feeling. And I can understand, one, because of her rage and two, because you're, you know, she, you know, she's widowed. She's widowed and like, like, you know, probably whatever emotions come along with that, that you feel like you have to tiptoe around her.

But I think it's a very reasonable boundary to say, we can hang. We can have sleepovers if you want. But I'm not going out in public with you. Yeah. And I feel like you're giving, you're almost putting the ball in her court. you're giving her options. You're saying, A, you can go seek therapy and, like, get your anger under control. You don't seem to want to do that. So then you're going to do option B, which is that I'm just not going to go out with you. But you have the choice to, like, go work on yourself. And if you become a more

patient, kinder person, like we can, you're like giving her a choice. I think is the important part here. Yes. And I think she's, you know, it's really nice that you still want to spend time with her. Because this is scary behavior, even if it was like once a year, I could see this making you feel like I can't trust this person. Like they're actually putting me in a dangerous position and being disrespectful. So it is really nice that you still feel connected to her. There must be some like really strong bonds there in the in between time when she's not acting like this. So I would just lean into that stuff and you can't force anybody to change. Right.

So you can, like you said, give her the option. And if she chooses not to work on it, then great. right, we're just going to have our own private relationship. Yeah, and I can't imagine this doesn't come out in any interactions with you. Yeah, I just can't see that. That is surprising. Right back in and let us know if there's more to the story around, you know, how this, how you interact with this. It does bring up, and I would love to hear a follow-up, an interesting question, and maybe we'll discuss it further, that we got around like the shame of admitting that you're,

close relationships, like talking about the struggles that you have in your close relationships with like a spouse, you know, we got the follow-up email about a woman who was saying, like, it's really hard to talk about your marital problems with friends. And this might be another example of that. Like, it's, if this is your mom and, you know, you've been so close and maybe she is kind of like still that number one attachment for you, it can be hard to admit. and talk about like major issues that are going on in this relationship. So if there's more to the story and you're open to being vulnerable about it, we'd love to hear the rest of it. But it is, you know, when you have someone that's like your number one attachment, we can get very protective over that to the point where we almost are like a little, I don't want to say delusional, but just like not focusing on the reality of what's happening.

Right. And that happens a lot in like romantic relationships, I think. but this is a good example of that happening in a different kind of dynamic. Yeah. Let us know. Hopefully the boundary helps you definitely have every right to do it. And I get where she's like, it's sad that I have to do this. But like I feel bad because she doesn't like want to do that.

Yeah. And I can imagine it being very anxiety provoking anytime you go anywhere and you see that there's like a stickler of anything at the door. You know, like that happens sometimes. Like, no backpacks or like, you know, whatever it is. I don't know, whatever people do, you have more than 10 items in the checkout line. And like there's wolves. Like always ready to fight. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. So I'm sure this will alleviate some anxiety for you in not having to worry about how she's going to react to other people. Let's do some intentions. I'll read them. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I have been a listener since the beginning and really feel like your advice and calm energy has actually shifted my thinking and mindset. I'm so grateful. Love it. To that end, as I've tried to become more and more aware of my thoughts, I have really noticed the strong need I have to try and make people do things the way I think they should be done. I often have strong opinions about major aspects of people's lives and feel the need to make them follow these opinions. For example, I think my friend who is out of work is not going about trying to find a job. job the right way or really at all. I also often find myself telling my parents they should drink less and exercise more. This other girl could use this girl as a coach for her mom. But I also find that I have

this desire to control or correct in even benign moments. For example, just now I was watching people get in a long line to order at a counter when there are two virtual ordering kiosks right next to them. I have this strong urge to walk the 30 feet up to them and tell them they can just use. the kiosks. I don't know why I feel like I know best in that I need to push this correct way of doing things onto others, and I realize that one, it's not my place, and two, it doesn't affect me at all. But I still constantly have these thoughts, and it can make me feel very frustrated at everyone from my friends, family, and random people in line. I also think it makes me sometimes an annoying person to be around. I've gotten much better at identifying these moments, but I could really

use an intention so that I can let these thoughts go and not alienate the people I care about. I need something to remind myself that it doesn't matter that other people may do things differently and that I just need to focus on myself. Please work your magic, sincerely, a type A batch. This is a great one. I feel like this person, is this person the woman who was telling the other mom about that she should cover the baby's legs? Yes. We're getting like her side of the story. Yes. Yes. And I really love her introspection. And I'm glad that, you know, maybe listening to this has helped her kind of reflect on that activation that happens when you see something going down in a way that's not optimal. Right. And people have this

all the time in different ways. It's, for some people, it's not like with perfect strangers, which for friends, it sounds like for her. It's more with like the people closest to you a lot of times I think this happens where it's like like nagging them a little bit. Yeah. Like if, you know, this isn't you because you're so not type A and I'm not either, but like maybe Mike does this to you or if it's kind of like he's putting something away and it's not exactly the right place or loading the dishwasher or whatever. It's a little bit more like, you're, we're doing this together. We're sharing a life and there's like a right way to do this. And I'm just going to kind of gently scoot you over in that the direction towards the proper way to do things. I think she's noticing a problem because it's extending beyond like her own home and

Right. Where she feels she's telling strangers the best way to do something. Right. Right. Which on occasion is helpful. I'll validate that on occasion. You're like, oh, like those, that lines actually, like there's no one on that line. I would be like, all right, thanks.

Yes. I am actually the one where like I'll go into a bathroom sometimes if there's like 10 stalls and then there's like 10 people waiting. And I'll kind of like scoot up to the front and peek under to make sure that we're not all waiting when there's like four open stalls. Taking one for the team by checking the feet. Yeah, checking the feet. Because I'm like, are we all wait? Like a lot of times people are waiting and there's like two open stalls and like we

could be moving this along. So I see. Voluntary bathroom attendant. Like, all right. Come on. Number two is open. All right. You're going to number four.

Let's keep it moving. Yeah. I mean, those people are useful sometimes. I'll validate that. Yes. So I get it, but I think the bigger picture that I think she's asking for help with is like sitting with that discomfort of like, this is not being done the most efficient way.

And that's okay. And not everything needs to be efficient and not everything needs to be perfect and not everything needs to be like there is, again, like the math. maximizing, right? Like we could maximize our time here. If we go to the kiosk and we could maximize our time, if I just peek under the stall, make sure that we're not waiting around for nothing. But sometimes when you notice like she is that it's becoming like a little obsessive.

That you're being annoying. Yes. And I do think it's probably, I'm sure if she's aware of it, other people have probably become aware of it. Right. And so I guess she just needs to breathe through those moments where she has that urge. And I validate the urge. I think that, like, especially if that's something that's clearly served her in the past in some way, shape, or form.

So, and it can be helpful. So validate that it's not an evil thing. But I can also, if she's becoming annoying, what should she's, what intention would you give her? So that when she sees something being done ineffectively, she can butt out, I guess. Yeah. I think if she can look at it as, like, a bigger picture. opportunity for her own letting go of control. This seems like it's a pattern for her.

And I'm sure she's only focusing on how she's doing this with others. I have a hunch. She's doing this a lot with herself. And that feels like okay and fine and better. But there might be the only one dealing with that. Yeah. But there might be room there to also kind of like let go of control, let your life unfold in a way that might not be optimized.

all the time. So I think when she notices she's doing this with others, she can be like, okay, this is my chance to work on this, you know, ongoing need for control that I have. So the intention that I wrote for her, which also just brings her back to mindfulness of like, this is how the universe is unfolding. It's unfolding in a way that these people are going to take 15 minutes to get their McDonald's instead of, you know, five minutes to get their McDonald's. Okay. That's what's happening. It's not the end of the world. It's not the fastest, but it's okay. It's almost like my aversion therapy. I don't know if that's the actual term. I might have made that up where she's like, okay, play it out. Right. Exposure therapy might be more. Exposure. Yeah. Exposure. Right. Let's play it out.

They spend 30 minutes and they waste 30 minutes of their life. Yes. Yes. And it probably applies to her too. So the intention that I wrote for her is I will notice with curiosity my need to control, pause, breathe, and focus on what's already unfolded. Which is like, this thing is already happening in this way. Let it unfold in that way. And that's great practice.

This is for you. And I guarantee if you do this with other people, it will also allow you to do this for yourself in your own life when you notice what I'm assuming she didn't talk about it. But I'm assuming is like probably an overly active need to control the outcome of things. Right. And you're not in charge. That's just the bottom line. None of us are we're not in charge.

We're not in charge of certainly other people. We're not in charge of all the different ways. that the universe unfolds. So I think it's great that you're noticing this. And I think if you can be just curious about it, like, oh, here it is. Oh, here it comes again, my need to control the outcome of the things around me. Time to practice. Time to hit the gym.

I'm going to do that, too, for when I get annoyed at like the doctor, when I'm waiting too long. I think that's, like you said. This is already unfolding. Let me be curious about why or how it feels even, not why, more like how it feels to allow this to unfold just as it is. Right. And I think that's the key to like meditating, even if you're not actually meditating, right? Like that's sort of, that is meditating, right?

Yes. If you're noticing your own feelings and sort of taking yourself out of them, even if you're not sitting there on a pillow in complete silence, I do feel like that's still a form of meditating. You tell me if I'm wrong. A thousand percent. And that's why when people say, like, I don't have time to meditate, you can do it at any moment of the day where you're just simply the observer of what's unfolding. Even what's unfolding in your own mind.

In your own head, yes. You're the observer of what are my thoughts and what are my physical reactions to my thoughts. Like, I love the idea. of kind of, I'll tell my patients sometimes, like, when something's happening and you're feeling activated, like put it in a comic strip. Like, I'm going to visualize a comic strip of Jordana sitting in the waiting room and the doctor's office and the whole thing. And then I'm going to write a thought bubble of like, what's Jordana thinking while she's sitting in the waiting room? And then if I was going to do like a little art therapy around this, it would be like filling in the

body with like what you're feeling in your body okay you know pressure in the chest uh getting hot you know whatever it is that you're feeling in your body that's what you write inside the body piece and then whatever the thoughts are that's what you write inside the thought bubble and so you're like watching yourself from a distance instead of being in it feeling like you have some when you see a comic strip you're not like oh wait hold on i'm going to change what's show what's in this. I'm going to move this body here. I'm going to pull the doctor out. Doctor is going to be calling Jordana Abraham. No, you're like, okay, this is what the strip shows. This is what it is. Yeah. Just look at it. And if you could look at something almost like you're like a scientist.

Love it. Like you're just observing. You're not judging. The scientist isn't like, oh, this happened. That's so like this happened when I put the solution into that. Like that's so, they're not judging the outcome. They're just like observing the outcome. And noting it. They're writing it. They're writing it down. They're noting it. But they're not. not like upset about it. Yes. Yes. Research your, be the researcher of yourself. Yeah. Right. Love it. Try this. Very helpful. Make a comic strip of it. Watch it. See, see how you feel. All right. All right. Let's do a trigger. All right. Am I reading this one? I think so. Hi, Jordana and Naomi. I love all your podcasts and religiously listen to you up,

despite being happily married and oversharing. I'm the first of my friends to have a baby. Many of my friends are still single and still in the going out and having fun stage of their life. So I understand we're in different stages of life and have different priorities and friendships change over time, but I cannot help but be so triggered by my friends who have made no effort to come meet my almost one-year-old. How personally should I take this? I understand our friendship has grown apart over time, but I can't help but be upset that the people who are once my roommates and closest friends have made no effort to come meet my baby. We all live within about an hour of each other, and I live in the city where my friends semi-frequently come to go to the bars.

I'm so triggered when I see on social media that they're in my city. I always used to respond to their posts and say, stop by next time. They always agree, but never reach out. I'm hosting a big first birthday party, and I don't want to invite any of them. Is that petty? I know that they would come if I invited them, but I no longer feel close to them, and I don't want to include them. How triggered can I be? Am I being petty? Love a retired party girl. Like this question a lot. It seems like there is like a battle of the childless and moms and a lot of these scenarios, you know, where like it kind of feels like once someone has a kid, they're in a totally different world and it's hard for both people to understand each other's experiences. Yes. Yeah. Um,

That being said, not your close friends not never meeting your baby in over a year is, I could see how that would be triggering. I understand like it's not the most, as someone who goes to see all of my friends new babies at some point, like it's not the most exciting thing on your list of activities. So I get from the other side, I like get it. But you should make your way there in like the course of a year, I think. No, I agree. I also wonder if sometimes there's like if they were, if there was some distance, if maybe there's like a little power, I don't know if I would call it a power struggle, but just almost like, are you picking a date and inviting them? Are you thinking that they should be like, hey, when can I come meet the baby? Like, whose responsibility is it to set up the meeting?

Right. Waiting until they're out in the city and being like stopped by next time, I don't know that I would consider that like a serious invite. That's a good point. Right. Has she ever said, hey, do you want to come over on Saturday? I'd love for you to meet the baby. Yes. So like sometimes that doesn't happen.

Like there's this little game of like, well, you didn't invite me. And I guess maybe what you're saying is true. Like maybe they don't really want to come or they're not like that excited, which is the hurtful part. But they're also kind of like, if you ask me, me, I will come, but you didn't really invite me. So like, I'm not going to invite myself over to your place. Like, it's kind of for you to be like, hey, you know, we're not doing anything Saturday. Do you want to come to the park or do you want to come over and see the baby or whatever? So I don't know what the deal is with that. If one person is, if she's invited them and they've like scooted

the question, I think if that happens, she probably would have mentioned it. Yeah, well, she says, like I think though I'm hosting a big first birthday party, I know they would come. Right. So like if you know they would come, you know they would come to a first birthday party, then like they would probably come if you gave them an explicit invite. That's a good point. So there might be a little game playing here if there was distance growing maybe perhaps while she was pregnant or like there was some distance growing before that of like who's

going to put the effort in to maintain this. Yeah. And I'll be honest. like going to see someone's kid if you don't feel like they want you there is not something your most childless people are dying to do. I think maybe there's a sense of like, it's like they don't really know, they know you. They don't really know the kid. So like it's more for you. And if you want to say you want to do it, but I wouldn't be upset. Like they don't even want to meet the baby. Like the baby doesn't know who they are or is not going to remember. It's really like I

can see. It's more about the gesture of it. Right. And I get that. do think there's a piece of it that's sort of like, I love this baby so much that like if you are disinterested in my baby, it almost feels like offensive to me. You know, like, for example, like John, our brother John told me that when you went to visit him, that you were like really like loving towards his dog. And he was like, it was really nice. Like it made me feel really good that she was like, you know, his dog's like. his BFF that you were like loving and sweet and nice towards the dog. It's almost like a show of affection to you when you're caring towards something that I love. Right. Well, it feels like

you're invested in like your life, I think, right, in that way. But his dog, I mean, his dog, he's got a great dog. So I don't know if I'd be that way about any, any dog. Right. Like, if he had a dog that was like not the kind of dog that I like or like, I'm not a little annoying or a little barky. I don't know that I would like it might that was I mean as much as I love our brother John I don't think that I don't think I does a great side effect that he's interpreting it that way but I actually do think the dog is really great right yeah that helps that does I mean it does happen also not to be the bearer of like I don't know if this is okay to say but like some people's kids are like a little more pleasant and interactive than others and I enjoy hanging out with them a little bit more than others. And they're not my kids, so I don't feel that bad about saying it. Right. But it is, like, it's not necessarily about the adult that's attached to them sometimes. It's like, I don't know.

Yeah. No, I, like, I'm very aware of my kids or being those kids where I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, you're being that kid that's, like, annoying everybody. So, no, not your kids. No, I mean, most of the time they're good, they're interactive, whatever. But I do know those moments where they're, like, bickering a lot and, like, people are trying to have a conversation. They're like trying to like get their like attention.

I'm not going to go down that road. But like, yeah, there's moments where I'm like, oh gosh, you're not being like, you're not making this enjoyable for others right now. And also your kids are old enough that they can have personalities and a real relationship with people and like a newborn baby is not going to sit there. Right. You're not going to develop like a bond with someone else's baby when you see them once or twice. Right.

Right. Yeah. So, I mean, I get it. It probably does feel like a slight against you if they're totally disinterested. But I would self-reflect on, like, are you playing games by not giving them a specific invite? Right. Try that. Yeah.

And it doesn't have to be now the first birthday because, like, I think that that might just be, you're going to have other people there. They're not. I mean, if you want to, fine. But I don't think, I think if you don't do the first birthday, I would definitely try, like, a different invite. No one wants to go to the first birthday, probably. Yeah. I'm just throwing it out there.

Sorry, no one wants. I go. I'll go if it's a good, but no one who doesn't have kids really wants to go to this. Yes. Yes. So maybe make it, and they would go, like you said, but maybe make it like, hey, do you want to go for a walk? Right. I'll walk the baby in the stroller.

You can walk. We'll catch up. You'll meet the baby. Yeah. That might be something enjoyable. Do you want to come over for bagels? Yes. Whatever it is.

Totally. So I would throw out an invite, see how that feels, because that might be part of it too. Right. If she's asked them to come over to see the, if she's invited them over to see the baby, I would give this, and they still haven't come and are constantly in the area,

I would give this like a six, but if she's never asked them, I'm going to go with a three. Yeah. I'll give it a little higher if she's never asked them just because there is like just this lack of enthusiasm, which I think is bugging her, like, oh my God, yay.

I need, and some friends do this. Like people, some people just love babies and they just want to hold a baby. And they're just so excited. And I could see that I'm going to give it a little bit higher just because you want someone to be excited for you and something that's so exciting for you. So I'll give it like a four if she's never invited them. And if she has invited them and they said, no, I would agree with the six. So I get it.

I get that you want them to be excited to meet your baby. I think that's normal, but I think it's also on you to say, hey, how about Saturday? Yes, agreed. Don't have the standoff. All right, let's do one more. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thank you so much for this podcast and everything else you do. I have a triggered scenario that took place a few weeks ago, but has not been sitting well with me. I, 30, female, have a best friend, ex-roomate, 31 female.

Pre-COVID, we were still living together. I took a trip to New Orleans. both of us being somewhat of spooky betches, I made a point to bring my roommate home an authentic voodoo doll while I was there. I searched through several shops and ended up picking one that was over budget but promised to bring my friend romance and love. Love it. I purposely bought myself a much cheaper, lower quality one since I spent so much on my friends. When I brought it home, she absolutely loved it and has been proudly displaying it since, even though we both live in different apartments now. Flash forward to a few weeks ago, I was catching up with her and

she told me how a few nights prior she had gotten super stoned and was convinced the doll was talking to her. So in the middle of the night, she brought the doll to the outside garbage and disposed of it. She told me this in a very off-the-cuff way, like she thought I would find it funny. It is kind of funny. It is funny. Yeah. Yeah. I explained to her that if she didn't want the doll anymore, I would have happily taken it back and displayed it in my own home. She laughed and said, well, you can trash pick if you want it, but it might be gone already. I just dropped it and I haven't brought it up again to her. Do I have a right? to be hurt by her actions. It was an authentic, expensive souvenir, and I would have loved to take it back if she didn't want it anymore. I'm also a little hurt. She even felt the need to tell me. Honestly, I never would have noticed it being gone in her apartment. We'd love to hear your thoughts, a spooky and now sad betch. Yeah, I think what's missing is like the awareness that, like, just some, like, I'm so sorry. I can't believe I threw it out. Like, that was so stupid.

I really loved it and something like that. I don't think the idea of like, if you didn't want it, I would have taken it. It was obviously done in like not a right mind in, you know, some kind of a paranoid moment. She's not linking. She's thinking the funny story is what happened. She's not linking the like significance of the doll to you. Yes. Yes.

But there, I could see you kind of like read the room. I'm sure when she told her that she threw it out and she was like, oh, hey, if you didn't want it, I would have taken it. that would have been the moment for her to say, I know, I feel so bad. Like, I really loved it. Like, some awareness of, you know. Maybe she doesn't know, like, how much care and money she spent on getting it for you. Like, it sounds like she did.

That's part of why it's so hurt. It's not like she, like, some random things she grabbed at the airport. Like, she, like, went searching for it. She spent a lot of money on it. And I think with, if she doesn't have that context, I can see why maybe she thought it was just like a casual gift. that didn't take so much time and money. Yeah.

If you ask me how much a voodoo doll is, I could be like, I don't know, it's either $15 or $500. I have no clue how much of voodoo dollars. Same. No idea. Not sure how long it would take to find the right one or if it was casual.

So I do think if she doesn't have that context, not saying you should tell her when you tell someone when you give them a gift, how much time and energy you got in it. But I think you can say to your friend, hey, it kind of hurt my feelings when you said you threw it out. actually spent like a lot of time and money and like really was so excited to give it to you.

Like I really searched out for it. And it just made kind of hurt my feelings when you threw it out and didn't seem to care. Yep. I totally agree. And I think she could probably, I'm sure the friend could validate that. I don't, I think the issue was the way that she sounds like maybe she kind of said that, you know, like she freezes. I would take it. If you said I would have taken it, that would, to me, a hint that you cared about it. Right. Right. Right. So I could. see this being triggering because she did sort of say like, eh, like that,

I don't think that should have just been tossed. And then her response of like, you could trash pick if you want was like not, that's not the point. Right. So yeah, this is annoying. I do think it's hurtful when you like give a thoughtful gift to somebody

and they don't, they show no appreciation or they show no awareness. Like I end up getting like this sometimes, you know, with my kids, like when it comes to Hanukkah and they're getting like eight presents and then like by the seventh night, they're like opening something and they're like, all right, what's next? And I'm like, right. Totally agree. Yeah. Like I picked that. I spent time on it and you're just like moving right along to the next thing. Although it does sound like the friend had this for several

years before she moved along. But like there's something really hurtful when you spend time and you make a thoughtful purchase for someone and then you like never see them use it. or they forget it at your house. Or, you know, like, I've had that happen. Or doing anything, I think. Like, anything that someone kind of gets used to or accustomed to that they take for granted feels like shitty. Like even if, you know, you always, like, pick someone up from the airport and then, like, they stop saying thank you. Yeah.

It's like, no, like, I, like, spend my time and energy and whatever it is, like, doing this. Like, it'd be nice to be acknowledged. Yeah. Yeah. I had, like, a wake up. I had a half, you know, half an hour, 45 minutes. in the car while you were getting your, like, there's a whole experience that I'm having leading up to this thing that you're not acknowledging that feels like inconsiderate.

So yeah, I get this. I mean, at least you did have the part where she loved it and displayed it for like a couple of years so that she really did appreciate it. Maybe she was, maybe it was starting to, maybe her spooky betch days are over and it was actually starting to like freak her out a little bit. Like maybe she's become a little bit more of a nervous Nelly and like, didn't want it. No, it's possible.

Maybe it was more than just that one stone moment. Or maybe she felt like judged or embarrassed that she, like, that you were like judging her for the story that she like was so stone that she threw it out. I don't know. That's like, it could be making that up. But yeah, it's possible. Maybe give it like a five, four and a half. Yeah.

Four and a half. Let's, we'll start there. Yeah. If this was like an immediate, like, no. regard, trashing it, like don't like it, never saw it again. Right. Like the next week she threw it out. Right.

It lived a long life. It stayed prominently displayed for several years. It's kind of a creepy thing. Maybe she was over it. But yes, she could have just quietly, like, put it in the closet if that was the case. Right. Yeah. And not, she could have been nicer when she said.

Totally. She clearly was saying that she was upset that she tossed it. Yeah. I didn't know a voodoo doll is supposed to bring luck. I thought a voodoo doll is for like revenge. When you hate someone, yeah, and you want like bad things to happen. Yeah, and you like poke it like in Teen Witch or something. I didn't know that that was for like manifesting.

Yeah, maybe you can like fluff it for positive. I don't know what you do to make. It's not sticking needles into it. I have to do some research. Yeah, I'm curious about this too. Well, maybe she felt like it was here for two years. It's not working. so getting rid of it.

Yeah, that's entirely possible. The thing doesn't work. And maybe she thought it was bringing her negative look. Right. That's quite possible. All right. We did it. All right of us.

Send us your updates. That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Rebecca Steinberg. Editing by Will Maxwell. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and everything's fine. And send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com

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