Oversharing - Am I Outgrowing My Friend Group?

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

In this episode, Jordana and Dr. Naomi Bernstein reflect on their recent Passover experiences and delve into the controversial topic of the telepathy tapes after many listeners wrote in with comments. The Overshare this week brings up the challenges of maintaining friendships as adults, particularly when it comes to feeling disconnected with them as we age. They explore the dynamics of friend groups from the perspective of then and now and discuss ways in which we can push to get what we want out of those relationships that seem the most tedious. This week’s Betchisit continues the friendship theme when one listener asks how to address the elephant…erm… baby in the room that is causing distress in her circle of close pals. But anxieties with our friends aren’t the only thing keeping us up at night so Dr. Naomi helps set an intention for a woman who sends in a voicemail about her guilt around buying things she doesn’t need. Closing out the episode the hosts review some Triggered submissions around cancelled international weddings and the management of guests when you have a newborn baby.  Watch Oversharing on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@EverythingsFineBetches Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How is it going?

How was your Passover? Ours was really nice. It was really, really nice. We actually had Josh invited some friends over that had never. experienced a Seder before. So that was really fun to get like the child's mind view of somebody doing this, which was really positive and pleasant. So that was nice. That sounds nice. And they were like they were like into. That's great. Yeah. And they had like a 16 year old son and maybe like a 11 year old and a 9 year old and they were sitting at the table nicely and they were reading all the whole. Oh wow.

It was really sweet. That sounds lovely. It's lovely. Mine was a bit more chaotic. Okay. Should we talk in private? Maybe. Perhaps, perhaps in case anyone is listening, we should talk to private.

It was a lot going on, I would say there was a more chaotic side of the family, maybe on this end. But that's over. So that's nice. Yes. That's over. Yes. Are you keeping any kind of? Passover. No, I am not.

Are you? Yeah. Yeah, I try to do like no actual bread. Okay, no physical pieces of bread. Physical pieces of actual bread. Would you eat pasta? Yeah. Pasta. You would eat, you would eat anything. Okay. Just no actual. Are you usually eating like loaves of bread? No, but like a sandwich. I wouldn't have a sandwich. Forgoing your, you're a daily loaf. I ride home with my bicycle basket and my large loaf of French bread and I nibble at it. when I get home. I could see you actually doing that in some world. What about a wrap?

Could you eat a wrap? Yeah, I would eat a wrap. Okay. So really, really it's just a no, that's nice. It gets into the symbolism. It's a nod to the,

just like, I'm not going to have like a big, you know, a sandwich or like a hoagy kind of big piece of bread. But I would even have like, I haven't had it yet, but, you know, those like little pretzel things.

Oh, yeah. Obsessed with those. I kind of know what you're talking about. Yeah. They're like, psal chips. Yeah, and you could like dip it in hummus or whatever. Like, that's pretty thin. It's like the same consistency as matzah. So like, let's go for it. I think that's fair. I mean, that's an interesting topic in itself. I think like, yes. I think to me it's more about like I'm doing something to show that I'm recognizing and participating in the holiday. Yes. Which was the Seder. And now I've done that because I'm like, I could do the, you know, not eating bread. or something like that. But I kind of feel like I don't like, I'm not doing it because I like believe like you should.

I'm doing it because I feel like I want to, you know, just keep some tradition alive. Yes. That really is. It's such a big thing. Like I can go on and on. I'm reading this book called The Righteous Mind, which I highly recommend. And I'll probably talk about it a little bit more than just this. But it's almost like it really.

It really hits on all these things. Like, why do we want to, is religion really about the morality of the religion? Or is it about kind of preserving your cultural connection? So is there anything that feels like I'm helping the world or being a moral human by not eating, you know, bread? No, nothing. Like I'm not helping anybody. I'm not saving a single soul by doing that. So why do we feel the need?

especially if you don't believe that like God, quote-unquote, like wants you to or wants you to. Right. If that's a belief, I'm just, I mean, it's hard for me to wrap my head around a God that would have so little else to do that he would care. Yes. He or she would care about that.

I think there would be bigger fish to fry, especially in today's climate. Yes. Well, I think the other side of it is that I do think religion is a good way to have moments of mindfulness. You know, like every time you choose not to eat that piece of bread or whatever it is or whatever your religion is, if you don't eat, you know, whatever you don't eat on Lent, you don't eat meat. Like there's a moment there where you're like, there's something bigger than myself and my carnal desires in this moment. So I think that's the flip side of it, is it's just these seemingly arbitrary laws are a moment to think about the fact that there's

something much larger than you at play. So I think those things are good little reminders, whether you're praying or you're not eating something or you're going to church or whatever the things are that you do that religion encourages you to do. I think they're for a bigger reason than, you know, whatever the moment is of not eating the thing or eating the thing. So yeah, I think it's just reminders. So but it's not, but you have to do it. So it's like if I'm just not, not eating the bread and I'm just like, ugh, sucks. You know, that's like not really the mindful point. Yeah.

Point. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, no, I agree. I think you can get that for many things. Religion is just sort of like a built-in way to do that. Totally. And it does make us feel connected to, again, like this ancestor, you know,

culture that, you know, we are clingy. We're clinging to our roots, which I think is just part of human nature. So I think there's like, that's the double, you know, purpose. The mindfulness, there's something larger than me. There's something bigger than what I feel like eating right now. And it makes me feel connected to my heritage. Right. Yeah.

I think, I get, so maybe it doesn't matter if you believe or you don't believe in that way. Yeah. Right. I mean, yeah, I think. I think there are parts of religion that you can believe in that you just do privately, you know, that don't need to be part of like laws and you're just like your own private thoughts, like having purity of thought, like not thinking bad things about other people. Like that's kind of no one knows if you do or you don't.

And is it really going to hurt anyone if you're thinking something bad about them? But I know there are religions where like you're not supposed to even. have like bad thoughts about people. So yeah, it's just, it is interesting to think why we, why we do all this. But yeah, so doing it mildly, all, all the power to everyone who's doing it more, less mildly. Totally. And you do you. Enjoy your breadless week. Yeah. Thank you. Should we talk about, a little bit about the telepathy tapes and some people felt kind of strongly and, Yeah, I think we should respond to the response. We're going to get more into it, I think, in our mailbag episode, which is our bonus

subscriber episode where we really kind of do a deep dive on feedback because we really like to have like full conversations about these things and more than the time we have allotted for this particular show. And that episode will be out on April 24th. So like in two days from now, we'll get like fully deeper into it. But I think we could we could touch on it for those who are. aren't subscribers who are really mad. Yeah.

So the controversial part of it, so I came in here just excited and I got a little juiced from the idea that telepathy exists and the collective consciousness. And it's interesting because what we choose to believe is like what we already kind of want to believe, right? So I admittedly really want to believe in the telepathy tapes. This is just me personally. This is not me as I'm not in session. I'm not your psychologist right now.

I'm just talking to you as a person. Right. And saying it felt really nice to believe. And they did present some convincing evidence. The problem that a lot of people have, that even a lot of the, and I am not an expert in autism, but the problem a lot of people have is like the assisted typing, where the parent or the caregiver is either holding the child's arm or holding the board that the child is typing on and that they can inadvertently guide them.

And so they're kind of speaking for them in a way that feels like maybe they're taking advantage of them or they're making them say things that they're not really saying and there have been cases where people have been accused of sexual molestation and things like that based on some of this assisted typing. So that's the big issue that a lot of people have with all of this is that, you know, some people really feel like that's not a real thing and people, almost like a Ouija board kind of feeling, you know, like that's the concept that people don't think it's nice or fair or that these children are, it's really their voice that the caretakers are kind of

of making up their voice, whether on purpose or not. And we'll get more into it when we talk about it on the subscriber episode, but I get it. And I'm admittedly, I really want to believe. So like when I first listened to it, I was like in there. And I still, my personal feeling is there are some videos if you go to the website and check them out where they're not touching the kid at all. Right. He's typing completely independently on an iPad without being touched.

So, right. Yes, I don't, you guys watch it, judge for yourself. I don't think you're saying like everyone should believe this situation.

This has been clinically proven and tested and you believe it without a doubt in your mind to be true. Like, it seems like you're kind of fascinated by it. You're intrigued by it. Are you saying like,

you know, and you've said this, I'm pretty sure on the episode that you're like having, you're not an expert in this and haven't done like extreme, but you thought the concept was really interesting. And I listened to the first episode. I also think the concept is like pretty cool and interesting.

Again, do I, am I like, I'm a believer? I don't know. I wasn't there. I wasn't like doing the thing. But I think it's more discussing like the concept of like this could be true. And I have more thoughts on it. But I'm going to get it. We're going to get into it again on the subscriber episode.

We want to really like deep dive into it. So yeah. but we are addressing, we heard the negative feedback. And valid. Yeah. It's a valid point. Yeah. It's a valid point, which is why we're addressing it.

But there's a lot more nuance there. And what I find most interesting that I want to get into when we talk about it on the subscriber episode is like what makes people believe or not believe? Like how your mind works, the psychology behind why people believe in things and don't believe in things when the answer is kind of gray. Yeah. So I think that's really fascinating. Totally.

And I think there's a lot that ties into our just initial conversation we were just having about religion and things like that and beliefs. And I think that'll probably tie into the book you're reading now too. Oh, for sure. So we'll get into it. We don't want to take up the whole episode discussing it. But have a listen. And if you are, you know, again, we always say we encourage back and forth,

always write in with feedback episodes. We address the feedback once a month on our mailbag episode. So we're okay with a little, a little. constructive discussion. Yeah. All right. But let's get into it. Our voicemail number, if you want to leave us a voicemail, angry or pleasant, is 6463636394. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. I will read our overshare this week. Okay. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, huge fan, longtime listener and subscriber of oversharing and you up. You get me through many a commute, laughing, crying, and having life epiphanies, etc.

I'm also a mental health counselor, so these conversations tickle me with inspiration and understanding. I am a 38-year-old female and have a close-knit group of college girlfriends, and we've stayed in touch and close over the years. Wedding, showers, bachelorets, and now babies and families. And we try to get together at least once a year for a girly weekend powwow and catch-up, which brings me to triggered, because I'm coming off of that weekend. It was so nice to be together, but I found the weekend exhausting, draining, and feeling triggered. I've always been lower on the pecking order in this group of friends, not new feelings, but feelings I've been able to get away from as I've gotten older, made many new friends, et cetera. There's just something about this group that makes me feel less than. Yet, I'm still

expected to be present at all the hangouts and expected to show up the same way everyone else does with that tight-knit mentality that we are all best friends forever. The truth is, I have never truly felt this way. I have a lot of love for these women, and I've now known them for over 20 years. but this is not where I feel safest, seen, or emotionally understood. And one friend in the group, with whom I live locally and have known since before college, is obsessed with her life, constantly talking about how happy she is, how amazing her new friends are, and how perfect her life is. I'm building my life more slowly and I feel judged by her.

The way she presents herself forces a comparison I can never measure up to, which is a huge source of the drain. I'm able to keep my distance from her unless there are these big group hangs that suck me right back into her orbit again. And these hangs are catch-ups, so our lives are on full display. I love my life, but the comparison keeps me from truly feeling proud to talk about it. I don't know what to do without cutting myself off from good, long-standing friendships. But I am just not myself when I am with them, sadly.

And then I feel ashamed for having these feelings. Thank you both. I hope this topic helps other listeners as well. Sincerely, a triggered. I'm too old for this shit, fetch. So she kind of wrote this as like a triggered issue, but there wasn't really seemingly a triggered incident. I thought this was a more interesting conversation to talk about friendships as we age just generally. Totally.

Yeah. It sounds like the issue is one, she never really felt totally herself. Like I think sometimes you, especially when these friendships are formed when you're 18, 19, 20, and you don't even know who you are, what you want. You just want some girls to hang out with and, you know, share life with. and then now you're 38 and now you have the commitment of a 20-year friendship that you might not have chosen when you were 19. Yeah. I think this happens a lot with a lot of different people. You're sort of like almost like grandfathered into these friendships that you have from stages in your life where you kind of needed like a good group of friends or like maybe not needed. But you, you know,

that was socially advantageous to like be part of a kind of like click. and to say you're all very good friends. And like sometimes that works out where you are all very close. And usually the more people, the less likely it is that you're all very close. Right. And sometimes it's kind of like no one is feeling that fed by these relationships, but they're just sort of like, it feels almost like a family obligation where you're like, well, I've known the people and to not go is to sort of say,

I'm estranged from this group or I'm ending the friendship with these people. And so you wind up being part of these friendships, which don't feel that authentic. And also another thing that that kind of struck me about the email is that she's saying that, like, she has these friends that are seemingly only really talking about like the good things happening in their life. It doesn't seem that authentic to me if they're all going on these trips and just talking about how wonderful all of their different lives are. Like to me, that's not a real catch up.

Like, who cares if everything's going great? I mean, it's nice to like hear about the winds that people are happening. But to me, like, if I were going to go on a trip and really feel fed by the trip and really feel like I was connecting on the trip, it would be people talking about what they're going through that would make me feel closer and more connected to them. Not everyone going around and saying, like, who's got the better purse or the better life or the better or whatever. Like, that doesn't sound like anyone's really connecting to me.

Right. Totally. I do think it's hard to find this balance between, like, presenting your life. as perfect and talking about all the great things, which I think this one friend is doing, which makes her feel just very disconnected because there's no vulnerability there. And then on the other end, the like complaining victim, my like, I get no sleep and I'm exhausted and my life is terrible. And like finding somewhere that balance in between where you can be vulnerable and

connected, but also not feel like it's almost a competition of. who's got more to share that's terrible about their life. So I could see how it is hard to fit in. But one thing that I think would be a good challenge for her if she is going to stay in this is to almost make the wins about your mindset instead of about what you're doing or the external factors. And I know it's so hard to wrap your head around, but almost like I feel proud, not that I met a guy that's six foot two that has a great job that we're moving in together.

I feel proud maybe that I haven't met that person yet, but that I'm keeping a positive mindset or that I'm thinking about it in this way or that I let myself cry once a week about it and have my feelings and then I get up and I do this. And some days I do that. More about the mindset than the external like things that you've gotten. I got the job. I got the baby. I got the, you know, partner.

I got the promotion more like finding pride in your process of how you are handling your life than in the outcome. Right. Or even if you're not feeling pride, even if you're feeling like it's a struggle, I think, being able to discuss the process of that. Yes. You're trying to be, I don't know if she's single or she doesn't, you know, not where she wants to be in a certain aspect of her life.

But like talking about it in terms of the process and in terms of like, you doesn't, this means she has to go in and everyone has to be like, annoyed and sad and like not happy with their lives. Right, you don't want to be the downer kind of thing. But yeah, I agree. But I think it's like a mix of both. It's like, here's what's going well. Here's what I'm working on.

Here's like, and that's, I think that's just more about like a real connection is getting to what's challenging. It's not just like what does well. And I mean, the other part of this I wanted to also kind of address is that she says that she's always kind of felt like she was sort of. of like an afterthought of the group. What does she call it? She says, bottom of the pecking order.

Right. Bottom of the pecking order. And I think it might be the case where this group, and if you went on a whole trip with them and you came back and you felt like you weren't having a good time, it's okay to say I'm not going to go again. I'm going to pick the one or two friendships from this group. And I'm going to cultivate those separately through phone calls or FaceTimes or or lunches or I don't know how well they live.

Like you don't need to be part of this group. If you never felt like loved and appreciated and admired by this group, it's okay to take the loss. Do you know what I mean? Almost sometimes feels like someone's talking about like a marriage where they're not treated well or they don't feel. And obviously like you can work on it. But if you're not feeling like these are friendships

that make you feel good about yourself, that make you feel supportive and that you feel like loved in, I think it's okay to, you know, let them go. And it doesn't mean you have to have like an official breakup, but it could just be like the next time you get the invitation to the trip. You could just say, I can't make it that weekend. Right. It almost makes me think about we do this with a lot of things, almost like hoarding, right?

Or like, I don't want to throw out this like teddy bear from my childhood or I don't want want to, you know, even religion. Like I'm not going to eat bread because I feel like I'm clinging to this like thing that's been in existence for so long. I don't want to be the one that's going to what feels like almost degrade the meaning of the whole thing. Like if I just drop the whole thing, I think there's a fear of was it bad the whole time? Was it meaningless? I spent 20 years with these people. Like if I can just drop that whole group. And I know you're not saying, drop the group. Keep the friendships that make you feel good. But I think people have a hard time doing it because there's a feeling of if I end this or even like I use the example of like

cleaning out your closet, you're like, if I throw this teddy bear in the literal garbage, it almost feels like I'm disrespecting my childhood or I'm not like honoring this experience that I had. Same thing. If you say, like, I'm not going to go on these girls trips anymore. it feels like I have to almost like. Right. Is that a waste of time that I cultivated these friendships for for 20 years? And it's, yeah, it's not. I think that's what you're about to say.

I mean, I think you had that. Friendship groups are really hard. And I think they're really beneficial for a period of time. And then they shrink up a little bit. Like what might be seven or eight girls in college in your 40s can be like three people or four people or two, you know, whatever it is. And it doesn't mean it was pointless. And it doesn't mean you're throwing away. You didn't have those memories and they weren't important to you. Just that exact grouping of people I don't think is making her feel good.

But flip side, she can go and do this little exposure therapy where instead of allowing this woman to make her feel bad about herself because she's bragging about her life, there's something there. She's triggered by her for something. Yeah. Like what, okay, so her life is amazing. Great. Why does that bother you that her life is amazing? And maybe you can, like you were saying, lean into this idea, I feel proud of myself that I can be vulnerable. Like that's something that makes me feel good about myself that I can come to these and be vulnerable and talk about the things that I'm struggling with and talk about my mindset and how I'm working on it versus like, you know, coming in with your bag, you're a box full of trophies and like dropping them on the kitchen table.

Right. To all compare. I agree. You watch White Lotus this season? It's, you know, the group of the three friends? Yes. It kind of reminds me a little of that where they like, they have, you know, their childhood friends. They like each other, but they also kind of, they're like a little bit of a frenemy situation.

I think a lot of female groups kind of have that where there's this sense of history. There's this sense of like, I knew you well. And that can be comforting. That can be, you know, if you've known someone since you were all on the same playing field also, and then it's 20 years later, and maybe this person has gotten a little further in life in terms of family or career or money or any of these things, it can feel like you're like looking in a mirror of where you should have been at this point in your life. because you all started in high school together.

Right. Right. Yeah. And the thing about White Lotus, which is like when she eventually, I don't remember, remember their names, but when one of them eventually like broke down. Yeah. Carri Coon. Yeah.

Spilled all her, you know, vulnerabilities. It was like that it like cleared the air and brought them together. And now it's not like this puffing your chest out. Like, look how great my life is. and everyone's just kind of feeling resentful and annoyed. It's like, oh, wow, okay, let's talk about your real, what you're really experiencing here. And then you see them, they're, like, connecting so much better

after that's done, after, like, people just, like, come clean. So I think that's a great kind of what you were saying before. Yeah. If you're going to do it again, do it that way. Yeah. Spill, you know, like, and you could even say, like, to that friend who lives locally that you see, but like sometimes I feel like comparatively my I sometimes feel bad just because like your life

looks so amazing. Yeah. And someone might tell you in that moment what's not amazing. Yeah. Or again, maybe you're not going to connect with them at all. But the really only way to do it is to kind of like be your true self. Totally. And maybe that's not, maybe that she still doesn't feel comfortable being her true self

among this group. Yeah. And it is crazy how you could be. She said like she's always been the bottom of the pecking order, how that can last 20 years. Like that, you know, pecking order is still the same 20 years later, which, you know, I've seen that happen. So one of two routes, either dig in, be vulnerable, feel proud of your ability to connect in a real way, or, you know, put the teddy bear out with the trash and find a crew that, right, makes you feel better. All right. Two options. All right. Let's do a betcha-sist. Do you want to read this one? Yes, I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi,

I'm writing in with an ethical dilemma that I appreciate your take on. I'm in my late 20s and I'm still friends with my childhood girl group. There's four of us and we all live in separate cities. The three of us are within a few hours of each other and one is in another state in a different time zone. We're still relatively close and try to keep in touch with video calls and meetups when in each other's cities. Recently, one of my friends had a baby and the rest of us are not planning to have any children. Ever since she had her baby, we're always having to adjust to accommodate her and her baby's routine while she does not shift her schedule for the rest of us. I understand that having a baby adds new layers to life, but it's frustrating when we're

constantly having to compromise while she is unwilling to meet us halfway. For example, when we video call, we have to wait until after she finishes. her baby's bedtime routine rather than her asking her husband to do bath time one night. This means an 8 p.m. start time for most of us, but a 10 p.m. start for our friend in another state. Or another time when we went hiking, she surprised us by bringing along her baby after originally stating she would be leaving the baby with her husband. And the baby ended up having a fit 20 minutes into the hike and we all had to turn around and then listen to the screaming, not an exaggeration, literal screaming baby the entire way back. This was especially frustrating because she brought her baby

saying the baby wouldn't go down for a nap. She had to have known it would be at least a little cranky since she missed her nap time. So it felt like just a blatant disregard for others at that point. Additionally, she will often reschedule last minute for hangouts and then only hang for about an hour before running off saying she has to get home to feed her baby or something else along those lines. Again, we do not live in the same city, so this is very frustrating because hangouts cannot just happen on a whim and require a drive. My question for you is how much should those without children be expected to accommodate parents when the parents don't try to meet us halfway? I feel guilty getting so frustrated, but I just can't help but feel like it's expected of us to just go along with things because we're child free. I have other parent friends who aren't this way, so maybe it's less a parent thing and just this friend.

Either way, I'd love to hear your take. Also, a side note, the father is very much involved and willing to help. So this is not because he's unwilling to step in. She also has family in the area who's always willing to babysit and help out. She's just very adamant about doing it all and always having her baby with her. Thanks, baby-free betch. Okay. This is interesting because it's like you would never say like, don't bring your baby.

Yeah. But most people are probably. thinking that. Yeah. Yeah. So I see her side. I also could see the friend. I kind of felt bad for the friend with the baby because like this doesn't sound like she's like having a great time doing it this way either.

Yeah. It is really hard because I think the other part that's hard is like once you're a parent, you love the people that love your kids, you know? So it's really, I could see why she doesn't want to say anything because. it is hard. If I knew that there was a friend of mine, or I think if anyone knows that there's a friend that doesn't really like your baby or being around your baby, it does impact your ability to really feel close and connected to that person. However, I do agree that it's not really fair to prioritize your baby over everyone else all the time. Like once in a while,

if they're sick or there's an extenuating circumstance, I get it. I agree. I would start off this by like a phone call just asking how she's doing, how she's handling everything. Yeah. Because I think like the circumstances are annoying, but I would imagine she has some separation of anxiety because if she's saying she has the help, she's able to do it, she clearly has some sort of anxiety or issue around leaving the baby alone. And I know that's her problem. That's not that's not your problem or the rest of your friend's problem. But it might help you kind of. of like get into the mindset of why she's acting, in your opinion, so annoying. Yeah. Would be to get a sense of like, how are you handling this new mom thing? Like what's going on? And I think she would enjoy that.

Even if, again, you're not like obsessed with the baby. It sounds like you and the rest of the friends are child free by choice. And don't really understand the mindset of a new fan or don't have to. And I think just trying to get a sense of like how she's doing apart from the group might give you some perspective and you might be able to suggest in that moment that she might have less anxiety if she left the baby with her husband and then really enjoyed herself and then came back refreshed or whatever she wanted to do there because it sounds like whatever she's doing isn't really working for her either but clearly she's still doing it because there's some other

thing going on in her brain that makes it very very difficult for her to not be with the baby. Yeah. I love that idea. Call her, ask how she's doing. doing see if she opens up about any kind of this like separation anxiety from the baby because there is something going on that if the dad is home and he's willing to be with the baby and you're bringing them anyway knowing that they're cranky and they're probably not going to be happy that there's something a reason why she's making that choice that maybe you can dig into are you going to be able to change it I don't know and I don't know how old the baby is but sometimes there is a little bit of like a postpartum anxiety period that she might just need to get through

like this attachment thing where she just can't leave even though she has family that's willing and a husband that's willing that she just feels like a lot of anxiety with separating. Maybe that will pass, you know, six, nine months after the baby's born. So if you're still in that timeframe, I would just like maybe breathe and realize this isn't going to be forever. And also, if she does want to bring the baby on like the high hikers and you guys don't have to leave because she's leaving. Yes. Like you can have a healthy medium here where you guys continue to do whatever you want to do. But maybe she can't make the phone call. Yes. Because she's got the baby with bedtime. If you guys, if no one wants to wait up until 10,

like you can like accommodate some things if they don't bother you that much or if it's not a big deal. But you don't have to do all this stuff. I think like that's one thing. And the other thing I think to remember is that she does have a different life now. It is not going to be possible that she's the exact same person that she was before she had this baby. And again, there's three of you that don't have or want kids and one of you that does. So I think like just a little bit of acceptance of like it's not going to really be exactly the way it was with thus the foursome there. And maybe it'll come back to that in a few years when she's like a little less stressed or in a different space. but I think like give her a little grace,

accommodate the things that you feel like are easy for you to accommodate and don't. The hike thing I think is a great example. Like, okay, the baby wouldn't go down for the nap so she brought the baby on the hike. The baby starts crying. All right, we'll see you later. Bye.

Right. You don't all need to leave the hike because she has to like, you know what I mean? It is her kid. Let her do what feels most comfortable to her. And if that's, and if she wants to bring the kid knowing she's going to have to leave, that's on her. Again, I would lean in with like, how's it going, separation anxiety, seeing if you

could get her to talk about it. But if not, having some negative consequence might help her then next time say, hey, I'm going to leave the baby home because I was walking back 20 minutes by myself with the screaming baby and all the rest of my friends were like enjoying the hike. And they're not always going to leave a thing because, or they're not going to necessarily make the call. I'm not saying every now and then. you can't make the call at a time that works for her, but it doesn't every single week or whatever it is. Right. Have to revolve around the baby.

So a little moderation there, I think, would help everybody feel better. Sometimes you help her out because she has a kid and sometimes you say, you know what, 10 o'clock is too late. We're going to start to call at 9. We'll catch you next time. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

And again, like I think there's maybe the mom is trying to have a mindset where she's like, I don't have to give up anything and I can be attached to this baby. all times. I think she's going to learn pretty quickly that it's just not the case. Yeah. It's just, and it's hard, it is hard to talk about. Like, it's hard to be the one. There's four people. It's hard to be the one that's going to say in that moment, all right, so we'll see you later. We're going to keep walking. Like, somebody's going to have to do that. That, I think, is sometimes the hardest part is like initiating this culture of. Yeah. Boundary. Yeah. We're going on without you. I agree. It's like rude that she wouldn't be like, sorry, like the baby's being

really fussy. I'll catch you guys later. Maybe we'll get brunt shaft her or something. Yeah. Like, I do think it's weird for the, if the expectation on her is that you're accommodating everything else around the baby, that is really annoying and rude. If it's something that, you know, you guys are not accepting. If she's saying, oh, I'll leave and then you're like, no, we'll go with you. Like, just accept. it. It's okay. Because it's better to be like, I think it's better to state what you want than to just be silently resentful of this person because that's going to be way worse for your friendship than her not showing up to the face times or the hike. Yes. I think in this situation, you're going to need

to have good communication so that this doesn't snowball this resentment. So like if you're walking, say, you know what, I really wanted to get this hike in. Like I wanted to finish my workout today. I'm going to keep going. Would you mind if we meet you back at the car or whatever the thing is? So you could put it out there nicely. And if you need to have a follow-up conversation after to explain it, then you could. But somebody should jump out. Sounds like it might be you, listener.

Yes. Agree. And start with the phone call, with the check-in phone call and see how that goes. Yep. All right. All right. All right. Let's do some intentions. We have a voicemail for this one.

Again, if you guys want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave us one at 646-363-6294. Let's roll the tape. Hi, Jordana. Dr. Naomi. I'm calling in with an intention this week about consumerism. I know Dr. Naomi, you're a big advocate of the no-by weeks, and I love the concept. But to be honest, even the thought gives me stress and anxiety. I actually do have a lot of anxiety when it comes to unnecessary spending.

I think I have a few sources about that. The first is about making a decision. I have a hard time choosing a color or design because I feel like there are just way too many options out there, so many that I'm left with a feeling there's no way I could find or choose the best one. I will always fail and never have found the best color, the best option out there.

So this causes me to have hours or days or weeks past before finally making a decision. And sometimes to make myself make a faster one, I'll say that I can always return it, but that just leaves two fires remorse afterwards. Another common problem is that I know I don't need anything. Like all my basic needs are met. I have more than enough as it is.

So even if I feel good about buying something in the moment, that's for fun, I always get reminded afterwards that I don't actually need this. and that makes me feel really bad about it afterwards. The last problem is that I also feel a really easy victim to good marketing and Instagram ads. They're getting really good these days, and I feel paralyzed during the popular sale times of the year, like Labor Day, Fourth of July, Black Friday, and with all the decisions to be made, like where to spend, what fails to do, how much, what should I wait for later?

There's so many decisions with that I feel so stressed and paralyzed. about. I either feel like I overspend or get mad at myself for not taking advantage of a sale that has already passed. And all this being said, I'm not the best favor. So I fear that I'm building dad habits for the future that would really like to change. Last thing so you know, I am married and I have a sick-moggled son and there's endless amount of baby products, you know, a multibillion dollar industry. And he has more than enough as he needs. His needs are that also, but I can't help justifying another cute outfit or book when I'm out shopping. And even if I feel good about those in the moment and really like them afterwards, I just feel

bad about it because he has enough books and he has enough clothes. Can you help me with an intention somehow about lessening my stress about things I would like to have or would be nice to have? I would like to have more restraint when it comes to unnecessary purchases overall, but I just feel like this is easier said than done. I hate the guilty feeling I get after spending money on things we don't need, and I really want to save more. Overconsumption just really keeps me up at night, and it's a terrible thing I don't want to contribute

to anymore. Oh, I feel bad for her. This sounds almost like a buying OCD. Yeah. Like on every level of it, she's like really obsessing over each little bit. Yeah. And I think we all, I mean, we all have a, I can speak for myself, I guess. I have a little bit of this also.

It doesn't feel like consuming, but I do have that feeling, and I think that's a very normal, natural feeling to be like, I'm so pulled by this Instagram ad. I really want this pair of shoes. And then you get the shoes and you're like, this isn't really making me quite as happy as I thought they would look. They look better on the influencer. And now I feel, now I'm feeling guilty.

And I'm the worst, the feeling is worse because I, like, spent all my, spent my hard-earned money on this thing that I don't really want or really need. And I think it kind of becomes like this cycle. And you're kind of always hoping the next thing is going to be that amazing product that's going to solve all your problems. Right. And then when it's not, A, there's the disappointment of it's not or I don't even feel like it anymore or whatever. And then this like moral judgment that it sounds like she's having against herself of like I'm weak and I bought this thing and I didn't really need it. And like I gave in and now my budget. And so there's a lot of judging herself after buying these things. It's hard. There are so many choices and it can just

flood your brain. You know, like sometimes I'll get caught up like reading reviews on products. And I'm like, it's been an hour and I'm buying like a dish towel. Like just pick one. Yeah. Doesn't really matter. But it feels like, so the last thing I want her to feel, and I don't know if she got some of that from anything that I've said in the past, is like that she has to obsess over every single thing she buys. And when I did this challenge with my group,

some people did have that experience where they were like, this almost made me really anxious because if I was going to try to buy nothing, then if I was buying something, it had to be like the perfect thing. Right. And created like a lot of anxiety. around buying the exact perfect thing. Totally. And like the sale thing that she's talking about, I'm always kind of like, you know,

am I buying this at the right price? Could it be lower? Could I have gotten a better deal? Am I missing out? If I didn't buy during the big sales, am I going to regret it later? I think there's just like a lot of anxiety in so many different places. Yes, for sure. I mean, so here's the thing that was when I did this with my group, the challenge was

twofold. It was one, just being mindful, which it sounds like she's got that part down. She's not just like impulsively buying things because it's scratching an itch. So like you've got the first part down, which is like you're being thoughtful about what you're buying. You're doing it in a slow and mindful way almost to the point where it's driving you nuts. But the second part was if you do buy something, kind of really being. in the moment of enjoying that item that you're purchasing. So it's not just like about the buying of it, but it's okay. I've given this a lot of thought.

I've been very intentional about choosing this thing. So let's say you buy your baby a new outfit that he doesn't need instead of letting your mind go to the place of like, oh, I shouldn't have bought this. I knew he didn't need it. And oh, I bought the white one and now it has spit up on it or it got some. some food on it and I, maybe I should have bought the Navy Blue. I'm going to put the outfit on the baby. I'm going to feel the fabric under my fingers.

I'm going to look at how cute he looks. I'm going to take some photos. I'm going to just like watch that shattery mind, that second guessing and regretting and buyers remorseing and all that and just notice that. Like I'm separate from my thoughts. I'm going to notice those thoughts. and I'm going to come back into my senses of being with this item and whatever it is that I thought I was going to get out of it.

I'm going to allow that to unfold by like feeling the fabric, looking how the light bounces off of it, sending some pictures to people and like having them say how cute he, like I'm going to just quiet that mind and enjoy whatever the product is. because if you let yourself go back and start, you know, oh, well, look, now this pair of shoes is this much and I should have waited and it's like, ugh. Right. Just don't even go there. Like there's no point in checking and rechecking after you've bought something. Like buy it, like your wedding dress, you know, like once you pick your dress and you buy it, like commit.

Yes. Stop looking at other dresses. Right. Stop looking with the prices also like. Yes. Because here's the thing about life. say this about investing, you can't time the market. You can't time, I mean, I guess you can time to an extent in which you can wait for like major sales. But apart from that, I think just like

accepting that you're going to overpay for some things. I wouldn't even call it overpay. You're going to pay more than the lowest possible price you could possibly pay for some things. Other things you're going to get at a huge deal. At the end of the day, it all evens out. You ever see that like curb episode about like the, unwritten law of dry cleaning where it's like sometimes you like they lose your stuff and sometimes you get an X someone else's stuff. Right. And it all evens out. It's like you just kind of like accept what you get. Right. You know, your mind space is valuable. So I think that also like and most sales are percentages of what the item is. So really how much are you really saving and how much mind power

are you putting into finding a sale? Right. Like I just don't think nobody's giving away really expensive, high valued items for cheap prices. Like it's not happening. Maybe you get a couple dollars off, 10%, 20%, it's not going to change your life. Right. On a large purchase, maybe it feels like a lot, but it's not going to change your life. And over the course of time, especially for this listener, the amount of mental energy and time,

and that is your most precious commodity of a new baby. Instead of being with him, you're researching products and sales and timelines. Like, if you keep doing that for the next 10 years, you'll probably have used up like two weeks to a month of your life in this space. So that freedom of mind space is worth whatever you're going to lose, not getting the best bargain or buying the wrong shade or all this.

obsessing. But I do appreciate that she's trying to be mindful of what she's purchasing. So the intention that I wrote for her is I will continue to be intentional and thoughtful about purchases and use items I buy to practice mindful gratitude. So when you buy it, instead of regretting it or researching if it could have been better or like staying in this space of like monkey mind, that's your moment once you click by now and once you open that package and you bring it home or whatever it is, that's your moment to make it count. Especially if it's past the return window. Yes.

Being grateful. Use your senses. Your eyes, your sense of smell, your sense of touch. Like use your senses to be with this object that you've committed to. Totally. I think another aspect of this is like, try. trusting yourself, because it sounds like a lot of her anxiety is like, I don't know what the right color is, what the right size is, what the right thing is.

Like, I'm not picking. I don't trust my, and I have this too as someone who doesn't feel like they have the best fashion sense. I'm like, is this, you know, can I trust my own taste? Can I trust that this is actually like the cutest top I could buy for this price? Yes, yes. And I think if you like it, like getting in touch with your own mind-body experience, it's like if you are drawn to it, then it is the right color. Yes. If it is something that you are drawn to.

And I think that's a great like mini exercise in trusting your own intuition and your own gut. People think about that for like big life decisions. Yes. But like this is such a good way to practice. It's like, okay, I'm looking. This shirt has this baby outfit has poor colors. Like which one do I feel most drawn to? drawn to, yeah.

That's your color. Doesn't mean there's no objectively best color. Right. There's no, it's like bringing perfection into something that's very subjective. And that's going to drive her nuts. So yeah, I like that practice too. Like, which one am I drawn to? Pull the trigger.

The longer you sit and think about it, you're not going to pick a better one after a half an hour of hemming and hawing. Yeah. Like a multiple choice test. Usually your first, most people go back, change the answer, and they've changed the right answer to a wrong answer. So I would just kind of go with it. I agree.

Trust your gut. You're doing fine. You're doing fine. You're okay. You're a good person. You got it. You got this. All right.

Let's do some triggers. I will read the first one. All right. Jordana and Dr. Naomi love the pad writing in with a triggered scenario related to visiting after a mother gives birth. While I was pregnant with my first child, a relative who lives out of state tried to pre-plan a visit near my due date, out of convenience to a trip they were already making unrelated to the arrival of my baby.

I let them know to keep their plans if they want to, but not to count on seeing us as I couldn't predict when the baby would arrive or what state I would be in for visitors. As my due date came and went, I had to reconfirm with them that we wouldn't be able to see them as the baby would only be a few days old. after doing so they responded that they understood but since then have completely stepped back from checking in on me and the baby while they used to so frequently while I was pregnant. I didn't even get a congratulations until days after my daughter was born and it was a very short and cold one. So my question is, how triggered can I be if someone takes offense to my preferences of visitors after I give birth? Why is there an expectation that a mother who is navigating care of a newborn as well as healing herself should have an open door policy for anyone and everyone? Thanks for all you do, a mama trying to keep her boundaries. Yeah, this is hard. I see both sides. Same. I see that she didn't want to have to be working on a plan with someone to come at this

particular time when she had no idea what was going to be happening. But I can also see how these people were offended where it's like, okay, the baby's going to be a couple days old, we're going to be in town. You're basically saying like, you may not come and see the baby. Like, it's not that important to me that you meet the baby on this visit. Yeah. And that was probably a little offensive. And so they backed off.

Right. And she didn't send the texts. I don't know how she said it. I don't know, like, what she said. Maybe it came off a little harsher over text the way she said it. So I think a lot of that really goes into just how triggering this would be. And I think it's totally fine to accept to put in boundaries of like, I'm not, you know, I'm probably not going to want to see you.

But I also think that sort of says. to the other person, like, we're not really close enough that I'm trying to help you plan this trip around the birth of my baby. And so I can understand why they're like, all right, I'm going to back off. And, you know, I'll give her a few days after she has the baby to text her so that she can not feel like she needs to respond right away. Like, I would also kind of, I would, I would take that as like, you are not in the first string group. Yeah. You can text a few days later. You can see the baby a few weeks later. Like, you're not string A, which is fine. Again, I think that's totally fine.

If that's the boundary she wanted to set, which it sounds like she was, that was set. And I think those people are internalizing that. Maybe they're a little annoyed, but she's like fine. That's also okay. Yeah. And look, I get it. I think, I don't know if this was her first kid. It doesn't really matter.

I get the idea of wanting to set a firm boundary. I mean, I had when Brooks was born, I'm not going to name names. But like, somebody came into the room that I had never met before. that there was literally like the hospital room the hospital there was like blood from the birth on the sheets of my god where I was laying and there was a person that I had never met before that was like in the room so I should have set up more firm boundary there I totally get it so I don't want to invalidate her at all right you don't want to have to be working around it or texting your aunt that's supposed to her flights landing that day while you're pushing up

a baby. But maybe you could have said, hey, not sure where we're going to be. Text me when you're available. And if I can, I'll, you know, if I feel up to it. If I feel up to it, we'll see how it goes. If I don't answer you, don't be offended. I'm probably just, you know, overwhelmed with a new baby or whatever it is. So if she just simply said, which it sounds like she did, it's not going to work out. Like, don't even bother, kind of. Right. Which great. That took that off her plate. That's totally fine. Yeah. Right. Took it off your plate. You don't have to think about aunt so-and-so coming in and when you're going to, great. But she's probably going to be a little put off by it. I agree. And if you want to save it, I think it's probably on you at this point to go back

and say, hey, sorry it didn't work out. We'd love for you to come see the baby. I agree. Yeah. And I think you can't really be that offended if someone isn't obsessed with your baby arriving. If you told them again, I can't see, I'm not necessarily going to want to see you when the baby arrives. It's okay. You've kind of initiated that relationship stance boundary. And so that's totally fine, but you can't then be upset that someone's not checking in and off on you, I think, personally. Right. They're playing off you. But I think it's an easy fix. I think if you do want this person back involved, you can just be like, hey, sorry, it was hectic, baby arriving. Sorry that it didn't work out, I would love for you to come meet them.

Yeah. Et cetera. And I bet you they'll warm up and be like, okay, she's ready now. Like, again, they probably accepted that they're not first string, their second string. And so they're going to take their second string role, like, I'm going to wait to be invited instead of I'm going to be like in. Right. Send me a million pictures. Yeah.

Right. Okay. I would give this three and a half. Yeah. I was going to say like a four, three, four. I agree. I get it. I get why it's hurtful because it's like she was just trying to not have to deal. I not have to deal with coordinating schedules while she's about to give birth. But, all right. So she backed off. If you disagree with us, listener, and you think this should be higher. Send us your texts.

Yes. Send us the text conversation. If you were like so nice and sweet and you worded it perfectly, we'll bump it up. I agree. Let's see the receipts. Yes. All right. Let's do one. more. All right, I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, love the show and never miss an episode. A friend is having a small international destination wedding like 50 guests and I was really excited to go. Even though it was peak tourist season, I waited until the invite came to book my travel. I didn't want to pester the bride with questions since I knew the info I needed would be on the invite. Once I got the invite, I booked everything quickly to take advantage of lower flight prices and snag hotels before they were booked up. A month after the invites arrived, I got a message saying they've postponed their

wedding because of emotional things they need to work through. And she's sorry since she knows I already made travel plans. I should maybe also note they're already legally married. Luckily, my hotels were refundable, but my flight wasn't and it was almost $1,000. I can't get a credit either. I can change the date so it's not a total wash, but this isn't a trip I would have planned otherwise, so I'm still really frustrated. How a trigger can you? I be and is it fair to not want to go to the rescheduled wedding if it happens? Signed a ticket tied batch. I think this is triggering.

This is annoying. This is really irritating. I guess it's kind of one of those things where it's like triggering. I'm assuming they like are thinking about calling off this wedding if she said emotional things. Like I feel like you would say what the reason was if it wasn't we're fighting. Yeah. We might not actually.

Even though we're legally married, we might not stay married or something like that. And that does happen and it does cost people money. But it is, I could, I would be triggered if I like spent $1,000 to go to a location that I didn't want to go to. And then they didn't get married again. Yeah. Not saying like the solution is for them to get married. Right. Right.

This is hard. It's one of these things where it's like almost nobody's fault. They're not going to get married just so people don't lose their money. And if this is what they do in these scenarios. Yeah. It seems just like too big of a thing. Yeah. Go through with it.

Totally. I don't think that's the best choice for them, but people probably would do it. This is hard because then now you have to like either go alone, find someone that wants to go to this random place with you or just sit there and hope that they reschedule the wedding, which you're resentful about going to anyway. Very annoying. I don't know why the airline cares. Like why can't they just give her credit to go wherever she wants? I guess if she maybe, yeah, I mean, you could try doing. that. I don't know if she bought like a basic economy ticket. Those are usually not.

Yeah, that's me. I'm like a basic economy and then I get screwed in these situations. Yeah, that's why you got to just buy the regular economy. So they give you a credit, at least, just an airline credit if they don't do that. But I get it. She was probably like, these are really expensive. Why wouldn't I go? It's a wedding. It's happening. Yes. It's happening. I have the invitation. Yeah. And it's a small wedding, only 50 people. So she's like, she's committed. She's in. This is really annoying. Obviously, it would be nice if the bride and groom offered to some sort of financial compensation. I guess not everyone can do that in these scenarios.

You could try to make the best of it. But this is really irritating. It's one of those things in life where you're just like, this is really annoying. I'm going to have to eat this. It's just really annoying. Yeah, I'm going to have to eat this cost. She's interesting.

She says that she can change the dates, but maybe it's like, maybe it's like a random like Caribbean country airline line that you wouldn't like I took Cayman airways to the Cayman Islands. Right. She has like a Cayman Airways flight credit. And so she's like, they're not flying to Florida or something. Right. Yeah.

Right. Right. Right. It's my only thought on why she would be able to change the dates, but not the location. The location. Yeah. And the other thing that's just another annoying factor is there's only 50 people. So it's not like even there were a bunch of other friends that bought this ticket also that

they could just be like, let's just go. Right. We all have a ticket. She probably doesn't know anyone else that's even going. Very annoying. I'm going to, I'm going to give this a, I'm going to give it a six. I was going to say six and a half. I think that.

Seven, it's $1,000. Yeah. Not much you can do here. Is it fair to not want to go to the rescheduled wedding if it happens? Well, certainly not if she uses the ticket before to pay. I think it's fair. not to want to spend another $1,000 to go there. Yeah.

I think if it's in the same location, then you have your opportunity to use the ticket. I would go just for like, because there's no other reason you need to go to this place. Yeah. But look, I do want to encourage her. They're not going to go through with it if they're having problems just so that other people can be happy. You know, like if they had a big fight, you have no idea what's going on. It could be pretty bad.

Maybe there's cheating. maybe there's some kind of domestic, you know, violence or aggression or something, or just they've decided that they don't want to do this and be married, which sucks. But I wouldn't be angry with them about it. Yeah. You can be angry at the situation. It's an angering situation. It's very annoying.

But they're not doing it to hurt you. I don't see another option for them other than being like, okay, well, let's just go through with this because we don't want to piss people off. Yeah. My guess is that it's not happening. They're not going to get married. Yeah. I don't think you send out the invitation and send out the hotel dates.

Like that would be a weirder look to me. Again, the only reason I could see having done this is if I could say like someone's parent died and they don't want to do the wedding then or there's some other like emergency. If it's an emotion, they're calling it emotional things to me means like. this is, I've never heard of a couple that called off their wedding, I think, and then had it again. I don't think so. It's like when a couple lives together and someone moves out, like, they usually don't move back in. Usually, it happens. But anyway, I would find someone who wants to go to this destination if you can. Yeah, try to make the best of it. But yeah, I think to answer that question of like, is it okay to not want to go?

if you still have the ticket and they reschedule it and you haven't used the credit and you don't want to go, I would try to work through why this is making you angry at them versus angry and annoyed at the situation. I mean, if the second wedding were a different location where you had to spend more money, I could see being like my budget for your wedding expenses is capped. Yes. I'll take you. Let's go to dinner at home. I think that that would be fair.

if they don't do it in the same location. And I could see kind of wanting maybe an explanation at some point. Maybe she got one and she's just not telling us. But I guess wouldn't you say that? They're like, yeah. Yeah. I hope they gave you an explanation besides emotional things. Right.

I could see, like even if they canceled it or whatever, they postponed it. And then they have it a year later, I could see that being annoying. Like I've sat on this ticket. I booked this weekend. Now you're doing, are we really doing this this time? Like with no explanation, that would be a little annoying. But if she's a good friend and she comes to you and explains to you, maybe it was fresh when she sent the message. She was just letting everybody know.

Yes. I think it would probably help to get the inside scoop and understand what is going on. If she's a good friend, good enough that you're included in her 50 person wedding and you're spending a thousand dollars on a flight for her to eventually when she's ready, explain. what the heck is going on. Yes. I'm going to say, I'm going to say the rule for canceling your wedding is if you cancel your wedding after you send out the invitations

and you want to get married to the same person again, you must elope. I think that's the rule, right? You can't do it again. I think you can't ask. Yeah, especially with destination. Although it's almost worse, because now she has, she would have been able to use this ticket.

I guess, maybe, yeah. But yeah, I hear, I would say almost like, maybe not in a huge wedding, but in this kind of thing, like, it would be nice to have a personal phone call. Oh, totally. And let them know what's going on. Yeah. Because for me to get back on a plane and fly when I have no idea what happened in the first place, why we rescheduled this. Like, I don't feel that close to you that I want to commit all this time and money for your wedding. I agree.

Especially if it's a 50 person wedding, you should be close. close enough to everyone there to tell them exactly what happened. Yeah. So, I think that matters. If you get the explanation, I think you'll know which way you want to go. I have a feeling she got, I have a feeling she got the explanation. She just doesn't want to air it in case someone's listening, someone else, something. But if you didn't, yeah, I would, I would need that before deciding on the next wedding situation.

All right. So we did it. We did it. Six and a half, I think, six, six and a half, something like that. Yeah, six and a half sounds about right. All right. We did it. That's our time.

Great work today. Betches.