Oversharing - Are Friendships Meant To Last Forever?

Episode Date: August 26, 2025

In this episode of Oversharing, Jordana and Dr. Naomi Bernstein discuss the transition back to school and wax (not so) poetically about the memories of Middle School. This week's Overshare a listener questions her attachment to her therapist and Dr. Naomi gives her professional opinion on how to handle this important relationship. Speaking of relationships, a Betch seeks help on how to handle a potential maid of honor proposal from a friend that she is not exactly expecting to grow old with, tea. A listener seeks an intention for her new life that has her feeling sad about the past she is leaving behind and Dr. Naomi gives her some words of wisdom to live by. Finally, the hosts rate some triggered scenarios and delve into the sensitive topic of family planning amongst acquaintances. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How is it going as you, you know, do your return to school stuff?

Back to school already. You guys start a lot earlier, I feel like, in Texas than you do in New York. Yeah, I'm a New Yorker. So this is still really weird for me. We started on August 12th, which is like not even Labor Day yet. Right. It's like I'm crazy because it's like I feel like all the fall stuff has already started. Like all the fall like advertising and the whole, like once you start seeing the Halloween advertising and you're like, wait, wait, everyone relax.

Yes. It's still summer. Yes. Like, where are you going? Totally. It kind of reminds me of what we talk about where you're like, you know, you're always looking for the next step. You're always looking for what's coming next. Like just enjoy, why can't we just enjoy the moment?

Right. Because you spend more money when you are like doing the buying and preparing for the next thing. It's kind of like gets you to think, all right, I got to get to the next best thing and buy the, you know, pumpkin latte and, you know, right, Halloween decorations and. It is kind of exciting. Yeah.

Like, you know, there's a, but like it's, but when it's not summer, I'm always excited for summer. I know it is summer. It's very,

uh, right. And you're like rushing it away. It is kind of a perfect symbolic representation of the struggle that people have, which is like, it's kind of exciting to think that there's something more than this. Right.

But it also takes you out of being present in your current life. Seeking. Yeah. Totally. So, yeah, that is weird. I get, I don't mind it as much on the other side when it's like February and they're putting out like spring dresses. I'm kind of like, all right.

It's coming. Yeah. I don't need to live in the moment when the moment is like freezing and depressing. Yeah. Totally. Although I do remember being a new. York and having that experience going shopping like in an actual store in February and it's freezing. And I'm like, I don't even feel like trying on this cute little sundress right now because I don't

want to have that little clothes on. Like it's so cold. Right. But yeah, so it's back to school. They had the Texas tradition of moms and mimosa's on the first day back, which I didn't get to go to because I was working. But it's like a back to school. you know, rager?

Mom's party rager. It starts like right after you drop your kids off. Organized by the school? No, it's organized by the moms. Oh, outside of school. That sounds more appropriate. Yeah, no, it's not organized by the school. I don't know.

It's just a thing the moms do. I didn't go to it, but I, it's a, it's a funny concept of like the celebration of children being back in school. So that happened. And then I went to the middle school schedule walkthrough, which was, it's just so weird to be, the kids all are really not looking forward to going back to school, especially the middle schoolers. And when I go to this and they're like a little anxious and wanting the things and I want to spend money on this perfect outfit and this. And I'm just like, who cares? just go. If they're really your friends, they'll love you no matter what. They're not going to love

you because you have like the panda dunks sneakers that everyone has. It's not how middle school works. There's no unconditional love in middle school. And then, you know, first day of school, I'm waking up at like 5.30 to blow dry their hair and put curls in it. And I'm like doing all the things. But, um, which is only a first day of school thing. we're not doing that anymore. Right. I remember that. Yeah.

No, I remember. It was like the first thing you had your first day of school outfit. It was like your big first impression. Now if I remember this and everyone where they're like in my in my day like their little like short Abercrombie skirts. But then like by three weeks later you were wearing sweatpants and you were like literally rolled out of bed. With like a messy bun. Yeah. Totally.

But when I was walking through the halls with them, I was like, I could see. why they want all the things. Like I felt intimidated by how like cute and stylish all these like 13 year old girls were. I was like I should have gotten dressed for this. Like walk through. I'm like their hair is perfect. And they're these curls. I'm like, are these girls doing a curling iron?

Who's curling these 12 and 13 and 14? Are they curling their own hair? the full head, all the curls. TikTok. You could probably learn all of it. Where did you learn that stuff when you were growing up? You had to like have someone show you. I remember globed a bunch of gel in my hair. As did I, you know, a whole bottle of LA looks curl, ultimate curl gel.

Yeah, level seven, level eight, whatever. Whatever the highest was. But I remember you at some point actually like maybe when I was in high school or middle school like ironing my hair for me. I remember the first time I saw a flat iron when I was in college. I was like a senior in college and one of my housemates brought home a flat iron. And she was like, this is life changing. Like, you just run this thing over your hair and it makes it straight.

And it was like, I probably came home. That next time I came home and I was like, give me your head. We're doing this. I've found the, uh, the, what's the word? The, uh, magic solution. The fountain of, yeah, fountain of youth for curly haired girls.

Um, so yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was a experience. It was, I almost felt like for a second, like, uh, the freaky Friday, you know, like I was the mom, like walking through the halls of the middle school and being like, okay, I could see, maybe we will buy, you know, the Lulu lemon, you know, leggings. and top and, you know, buy all the crap that you want because I could see why this feels uncomfortable when everyone else is like looking so perfectly pruned. Right. Yeah. And I'm like, it's hard to keep up. Put on a t-shirt and shorts. Go to school. I mean, some, some kids actually, I think, like, like that. Like, they like getting ready and they like being putting together.

I think like that was never, it was never mine. I assume that was never yours either, your style in terms of like you were never like the most fashionable girl with like everything looking perfect in them. But like my morning routine. Yes. Yeah. Maddie likes that. My middle daughter, she likes that kind of stuff. Like she would like to wake up at 5.30 and like get out her curling iron and try to do it.

But yeah, my morning routine, I always like to shower at night. So for the curly girls out there, maybe it's different now. There's more. You have to kind of like start with wet hair if you want it to be. nice. So I would go into the bathroom, turn on the tub, dunk my entire head under like the running tub water, soak the whole thing, and then slick it back in a bun with like the level eight LA looks gel, Paragenco jeans, baby tea, and that's it. You're out the door. Like, see now you invented the clean girl looked. Yes. A good ship. So. Yeah. So. Yeah.

It's tough. I mean, middle school is tough, I think. Because like, again, there is no uncondition. If I could think of like a place where you're the opposite of being loved just for who you are where you go to do that. It's not like seventh grade. It's not. Yeah, totally. But it is interesting. Yeah, it's character building.

And they're like navigating friendships and how to set boundaries with people that aren't like don't have your back and aren't in your corner. But like you said, the problem is. is middle school, most people don't really have your back. There's a lot of jealousy, competition. So it is hard to find those people and keep them. But yeah, it's, you know, I- You're like also figuring out how you are, though. Like, you don't even know who you are.

So I think a lot of that comes from trying to, like, form your own identity. And it's sort of like, you almost like need it. You know what I mean? Like there's no way, like if you knew who you were at 11 years old, I think like it probably wouldn't be that fully formed of a self. So it's almost like kind of like it's like a growing pains thing. Yeah. And you end up figuring out, I think kind of what feels like the path of least resistance in terms of like I can, okay, I can fit in here. Like this feels more comfy. You know, like, you know, I have two daughters, like you said, Maddie is more like, I enjoy putting curls in my hair

and like getting all, you know, primed and, you know, dressed or pruned and dressed for school. So she kind of can, that's like a comfy place for her to feel like she fits in. And Lila, like doesn't enjoy that. So she's almost finding her identity in a way that's like not that. Like she'll find her identity in a way. So I agree with you. Yeah. You know, it can't be that place where you're figuring out, like, out of all the places that I feel

uncomfortable, which place do I feel the least uncomfortable? Yes. In middle school. But I will say there is, it does seem like there's a little bit of a trend towards, like, speaking, we've talked about, like, larger bodies and, like, not needing, like, skinny to be the only shape that's acceptable. I think it's coming around, like, it's kind of cool to have, like, a big booty. and like they all like sort of want that like you know I forget what happened but like Brooks my son

made a comment on like you know Maddie's butt and said it was like small or and she was like so offended and she was like try you know right how do I you know it was like almost the opposite like saying that she was skinny it was like offending her and she wanted to have like a curbier shape I will say that I feel like, obviously social media, overall, a lot of bad things to say about it, a lot of damage to be done. But I do think the flip side, positive side is you do get a lot of people who get exposure to like cool, confident people at every size. So I think there are people who make, you know, like bodies of all shapes and sizes seem like acceptable and fun and cool. And like, I think, but when we were kids, all you really had was like magazines and everyone in those magazines look pretty much the same. So like the nice thing about social media is there. You can find sort of like a role model or you can find like someone to look up to that looks a little more like you and makes you a little more confident being a different way. Yeah, totally. But I was I was happy to see that there's like a trending towards, you know, larger bodies are like beautiful and round and.

full and curvy was kind of in. That was my experience going a day, an hour in the life of a middle schooler. I would love to see a freaky Friday with like you and Maddie switched positions. Oh my gosh. I really did because I did get a glimpse of like I could see why and it made me want to try to, you know, maybe get them the thing that they're asking me for because I'm really not, I'm kind of that mom that's like it'll, you'll gain character, you know, Like the thing that you wore

last year. You don't need a new backpack. What do you? Your backpack from last year is fine. Yeah. I think, I think a little bit of both is probably like, again, like there's the idea of like you don't get it.

Sounds like you get it a little more. Yes. But also like you have the wisdom of being in your 40s to not be like. Yeah, we're just going to like, that's how you're going to make great friends who are going to love you forever if you have the same stupid shit as them. Totally.

But I did have that. I really felt almost like. me as a 46-year-old woman, I was, like, intimidated by how perfect this girl's, like, shiny, curly hair was. And I'm like, oh, maybe I should, like, curl my hair. Can you teach me? What is happening? Right. What is happening to me? I've only been here for 10 minutes. I'm like doubting myself. Now you know. Yeah. All right. Well, let's get into our episode. We have a voicemail at the end of this episode. If you want to leave us a voicemail, you can leave us one on 646363, 6294.

Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. Also, you can subscribe to this podcast. You get all the episodes a day early and ad-free, as well as two bonus episodes a month. Or you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups. How do they do that? Come to Naomi Bernstein.com, get all the info, fill out a form, and we will match you up with a group that works for you. We have Monday evenings and Tuesday, Wednesday morning slash afternoon. So as availability opens up for those, we will find a spot for you.

Come join us. It's a really cool community of supportive, hopefully men and women. Yes. Check it out. All right. Let's get into our episode. I'll read our first email. Hi, Jordan and Dr.

Naomi. I'm a long time listener. Would love your perspective on something I'm navigating in therapy. My current therapeutic relationship feels much deeper and more intense than what I've experienced in the past. I feel quite a deep attachment to my therapist and find myself thinking about her in our relationship often. My therapist has been incredibly supportive throughout various challenges and painful experiences that have come up in my life during our time working together. She is generous in her care in ways I've not experienced in previous therapy relationships. Though we are close in age and clearly have things in common, she shares appropriately about herself.

when it's relevant. She has certainly never crossed any professional boundaries. This level of support is meaningful to me, and I'm super grateful for it, but it intensifies my attachment in ways that feel both healing and overwhelming. I'm wondering, is this level of therapeutic attachment normal and potentially beneficial, or should I be concerned about feeling too dependent? How do you navigate vulnerability of caring deeply about someone within such a boundary relationship? I also want to add that while I know romantic and sexual transference can occur in therapeutic relationships. I am not experiencing anything of that nature. I'd love your thoughts on when intense therapeutic feelings are part of healthy healing versus when they might become problematic,

especially for those with anxious attachment patterns. Thanks for all you do, a healing betch. Is anyone obsessed with you like this? Not that I've, not that I've experienced, but I do think it can be really hard to have this relationship that's so different than every other relationship in your life. Like if you meet another woman in your neighborhood and you head it off and she checks up on something that you told her about and she's there for you and you have things in common and maybe you have a couple laughs and you're kind of like, cool, let's hang out more. You know, like I want to know more about you. Like let's be friends and let's like do these things together that we have in common. And this relationship is this weird, I validate it's this weird

space where you're like, I really like you. You seem like you really like me. But there's these very firm boundaries around like when we hang out, when we talk, and it's a one way vulnerability streak. Right. And someone's being paid. Yes. To be in that. Totally. So I mean, I guess like, Is there anything inherently wrong with this? So feeling like, I guess she says she's anxiously attached. Maybe that she gets, she's like a little worried that she's like too attached or too reliant on the therapist. It sounds like she's like the therapist is pretty flexible. And like I imagine they're texting or taking a call off.

Like to me, that's kind of what she's implying. Right. I get the feeling that maybe the fear is like, you know, what if this doesn't continue? you or like what if I can't see her anymore and now I've become so attached or whatever for whatever reason and that does happen like schedules change or if she got a new job and they can't um you know I have had that happen with patients where like their schedule changes we can't line up and the relationship has to end and it it is hard and that's not how it works in real friendships right like in any other relationship.

Like if you two people want the relationship to continue, it will continue. But in this case, there might be a reason why it would have to stop for some reason. So maybe she's fearful of that. And I think just probably the intensity with which she's thinking about her, like I think about her all the time or whatever she said to that extent probably feels a little bit uncomfortable. Like why? Why do I keep thinking about her? Like what is that? Right.

is this. I'm glad she clarified she's not like in love with her. Because I think that would be probably a different discussion. But there is, I think there is a thing where it's almost like, you know, being cared for in this way can just really make you feel. I think there's like a hole in her heart that probably was there

that's being healed by this therapist. And then it feels like, again, almost a little bit of this like seeking like I want more of that feeling that comes right from. this like really healing supportive relationship. So like it's not enough to have that 45 or 50 minutes a week that she's like thinking about her outside of that. I do wonder if she's if some of it is like what does she think about me? You know, like right. I wonder if she likes me. I wonder

if there is a piece of it that's like just kind of that. Is it authentic? Is like her like care for me? like would that exist outside of this therapeutic relationship? I think I've thought that before when speaking to a therapist. Like I think it's a question that most people in therapy sort of have at some point of like, am I thinking about this relationship or am I thinking about the way that that I think about this relationship in the same way that this other person does even though they're on the other side? Because I think on one hand, and you say this a lot, like your therapist. therapist is sort of supposed to be there to like model a really healthy relationship.

Right. And so if that's your only or one of your only really healthy relationships, I can see why you're like, this is like the only. And I remember thinking that too. It was like, oh, this is like one of the only people who like truly cares or like truly understands me. Yes. So it might be a sign I thought of like maybe she should try to build more relationships of that nature outside of the therapy. So it doesn't because like I think again, I think the therapist is supposed to show you that that kind of relationship is possible but not that they are the only ones who can give it to you. So like you share something vulnerable with the therapist

they're not going to be like ghosting you. But like the point of that is so that you can share vulnerable things with other people and know that not everyone's going to ghost you. Even though again it's like not like a perfect one to one, this person is being paid to see you. Right. They have to show up like all the things.

But I do think, and I always say this, and I get how awkward and uncomfortable it is, but I think she should bring this into the therapy because I don't know her enough to know what the, what the right path to examining this would be. But I think you're right. Maybe it is kind of a sign that she needs to find this level of trust and care and vulnerability and, you know, kind of non-judgment in her own real life with maybe a family member or a friend or a partner or somebody where she doesn't feel like all her eggs are in this basket with the therapist.

Right. And I think that'd be a great thing to sort of like almost ask your therapist because, again, they are someone you're paying to help you out in your life to form better relationships. I think she could almost phrase it as like, I feel like so connected. and so attached to you in this relationship. Like I would love to be able to build that kind of relationship with whoever in her life maybe she could feel like she could get there with my mom, my partner, my friend. Like how can we work on like how to get to that level and in relationships in the real world?

Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard because I think what happens and a lot of times when people start to feel really lonely and depressed and kind of have that anxious attachment is like, we are born with a primary attachment. And that is your typically mother, sometimes father, parents, whatever.

And then we have our parents, typically, or whomever, grandparents, whoever it might be for you, you have like your primary attachment. And then like speaking of middle school, you start to have like your best friend

attachment or your friend group attachment and then so on and so forth. So most people typically feel safest when they have a primary attachment person, whether it's your parents. Sometimes it's your parents until you meet a partner or get a friend group. But it's like when we don't have that one person. And even when we do have that one person, sometimes it can feel like those relationships are the ones that are kind of the most like fragile. and complicated and intense. I've had people where they're like, my best friend, like, watch this movie without me. When we said we were going to watch it together and it feels like this big betrayal or

whatever it is, my roommate, we were supposed to watch this movie together and she watched it with her boyfriend. And it's like, it's not about the movie. It's about like, they're your person and you're not their person. And it feels really unsafe. So I think right now this therapist might be her primary attachment person, which I get can feel scary when it is a transactional relationship. So I do agree.

I think it would be great to bring it up and see and it might be uncomfortable and require like the next, like you've done the work to attach to this therapist. Like you've done the work to be vulnerable, open up, like do all the things to attach to this person. And I think the next uncomfortable level for you guys and it would be great to bring it up with her is to try to do that.

outside of this therapy situation. Agreed. Okay. But great question because I do think it can, you can feel like a little bit crazy when you're like, I feel like a little obsessed with this person. Like what's wrong with me? Yeah.

And I think that's kind of normal at certain stages. I definitely remember like feeling that way at certain points. With my last therapist, like a sense of, it's very hard. to find someone who knows you in that way, even though, again, it's like one-sided. Yeah. I mean, but look, it's better than attaching to, you know, someone you went on three dates with or have been dating for, you know, two months.

And there isn't this, like, controlled environment of, I'm not saying it's better than attached to people in real life. But I think a lot of people will stay attached to the guy that's not treating them well or the friend that's like a friend of me. And if you're in that situation, then it is probably better to like reattach to a therapist and then reattached to somebody in your real life that actually values you and treats you well and respects you and all that. Right.

To get your like secure. Secure fixed. Like secure here. I have this attachment. And then I can from there because a lot of times you're just like obsessing about this other like unhealthy, perhaps toxic attachment that. you can't even do the work to find a healthy attachment because you're just so obsessed with the wrong one.

Right. So therapy might be a good like kind of pit stop of like, okay, attach here, gain my bearings. Practice. Yeah. And then go back out into the world with it. Agreed. So talk to your therapist about it. I don't think they'll feel weird.

I'm sure it's very common. No. Honestly, anyone who's out there that's having issue with their therapist, talk to your therapist about it. That's like the beauty of it. This is the one relationship where you can come and say whatever. I don't like that you build me for this. I don't like that you relate to that. I don't like that you said this thing in session. I'm feeling a little too attached and it's scaring me. Go to your therapist with it. I guarantee you will feel more connected, better, more able to have hard conversations, like there will be a good outcome at the end of it.

Agreed. All right. Let's do a betchesist. Do you want to read this one? Yes, I will read this. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, longtime listener here and huge fan of all things, betches. I was hoping for some outside perspective on a situation I'm dealing with. I've been friends with, quote, Emily, for about six years now.

When we became friends, she was my only friend in the area, so we spent a lot of time together. She can be a lot of fun and is not a bad person, but we wouldn't be friends if we met today. She's intense, self-centered, and it came out in the last election that we do not align at all on political or moral issues. I could write an essay on the whole thing, but the TLDR is that she's just not someone I want in my life anymore. In the last nine months or so, I've been heavily backing away from this friendship. I know I probably should have had an honest conversation with her, but I couldn't figure

out what to say, so I just stopped spending time with her. She prized herself on being confrontational, and I sort of thought at some point she'd confront me about not hanging out with her anymore, but she never did. We went from seeing each other every week to extremely limited contact. She'll text every once in a while, and I'll answer her, but we haven't seen each other in person since March. I was pretty sure she got the idea that I didn't want to be friends anymore, even if she didn't care to ask exactly why. My dilemma now. She got engaged recently and clearly expects me to be involved. I can't tell if it's because she genuinely thinks we're still close or if it's because I'm the only

person in her life to fill this role. She spends the vast majority of her time with her boyfriend, brother, or uncle, and doesn't have any other female friends. It feels dishonest to be part of her wedding, knowing I don't want to be friends anymore, but it also feels pretty terrible to decline to be involved in her wedding. She's already invited me to go dress shopping with just her and her mom. We used to talk about being each other's made of honor and the fact that no one else is attending the dress day makes me think she might still expect that. My question, is just going along and being her maid of honor the kind thing to do? Or is it worse to be so involved in someone's big day knowing you don't plan to stay in their life? Should I just say I'm busy?

Should I try to have a conversation with her about not wanting to be friends anymore? And what would that even look like now after almost a year of already limited contact? Would love any advice you can give, please help a maid of dishonor. is a tough one. I'm very curious to hear your take because I feel like you're always pro honesty. Yeah. And this one I think would be kind of a difficult one to be honest with, especially like in the midst of, it's almost like why it's tough to like when you prolong these things and then it then you're put in a situation where you haven't had that conversation and it can feel like meaner. Yes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. It's like meaner to wait for someone

to ask you to do something to respond with no and I don't want to be. friend than it would have been to say, I feel like the friendship has drifted before that. But here we are. Yes. Here we are. Yeah, that ending friendships is a really hard conversation because there is kind of always this option of like we could just back off and be casual, see each other once a year. And like that's an option.

It's like ending a relationship where it has to be done. Right. Where the hope is that both people sort of like accept the drift. and you don't have to have like a full breakup conversation when no one has done anything wrong and you just kind of feel like you've drifted apart. Which is what they were doing until now. Yeah. Right.

So I think if you were both accepting the drift until this wedding thing comes up, I think the conversation could, if it feels more comfortable, be more about like the wedding and being involved in the wedding and being potentially the made of honor if she asks you then about ending the entire friendship because I do think that accepting to be the maid of honor and like be in potentially like photos and part of the day and like when you don't really intend to have a big role in her life is probably not the right thing to do. And you probably also don't want to do it. Right.

And you're not going to do it with the spirit that she would, want you to do it. Yeah, and it's kind of worse to do it, I think, to do it begrudging and kind of like hate every part of it than to back out of doing it. So I think the conversation could be more about, like, I just don't think that, you know, our friendship is at the level where I would feel comfortable. She could say it that way. I don't think our friendship is at the point right now where I would feel comfortable taking such a big role in your life. Like, we haven't really seen each other that much and you know we're kind of both doing our own thing i'm happy to attend as a guest um i'll be there like i'm so happy for you but i just don't think can you guys hold on sorry one second

sure someone's calling me repeatedly sorry give me one today can you guys hear me yep that that was just the weirdest fucking thing that's ever happened what happened I got no caller ID and this guy is like calling from the Collin County Sheriff's Office. I don't know if this is a scam. I think it might be a scam. What is he saying? He's like you were supposed to. I've gotten one of those before.

No caller ID twice. He's like you were supposed to appear as a psychological witness in a trial. Hold on one second. This sounds like a scam. Yeah. You were supposed to appear in a trial and a psychological trial as an exercise. expert witness and you're currently like under arrestable status for not appearing in court yesterday.

And I was like, this. No, he didn't ask me for that. But I was like, I'll be honest. I'm like, this is coming from a no caller ID. Like I never received anything. This sounds like a scam. I don't know what you're talking about.

And he's like, well, I'll call you back from like the sheriff's county's office line. And what's in reference to which patient's name? like he said something like a murder trial and an insanity plea i think you would i think you would i think you would i think if that was the case you would have heard from the cops by now before the trial allegedly he is the cops allegedly but he's saying you missed the trial date so like yeah it was on the 11th before you yeah it's what i'm saying like you would have heard from the cops long before you missed the trial date they would have like come to your house has and i watch a lot of

crime with documents about how he's Who's? Yeah, specific patients. He didn't say the name of the trial, of the person on trial. I said, who is this in reference to? I mean, I don't know. It's a scam. It's a scam.

And he sounded a little like stuttery. Yeah, because he was like, well, I got one. Oh, my God. I was like, honestly, the only reason I'm even answering this is because I thought something was wrong with my kids because someone called twice from no caller ID. Yeah. I don't think you're under arrest for not going to a trial that you've never heard. never and if I was I would have had to sign a paper okay fine yes you would have said they would

have done yeah just stressed me out I'm sorry yeah it's honestly these scammers are like ruining our lives like they're just it's just constant yes I could and I you always it's always some like dire thing that they're like that's how they get you to like reveal information is by making the stakes so high of like getting your heart rate up and yeah you feel panic about to get a penalty for all the tax back taxes that you haven't paid you have this ticket that's you know the speeding ticket that you haven't paid and now you're going to be under like it's like all this stuff that's like oh like I just better comply immediately so I don't like it's very annoying and I usually don't answer when it's from any number that I don't know but now they're calling from no caller ID so now I'm like

oh my gosh is this like I don't know I don't even know I answered but yeah you're right right it's like Come to my house and show me the paperwork. Oh, my gosh. I was in the middle of a conversation. This is so annoying. These people get a job. Yeah. Seriously.

I mean, what did he even want from me? I don't know. I don't know what he's the thing. They probably would have led down to like, is this your social security number? No, this is my social. Like, you know what I mean? He did know my address, which was kind of unsettling. Yeah.

He said my address, which was just his way of being like, which you can look up. I'm legit. And I know your address, which is like everywhere. Yeah, I don't think this is how that kind of stuff works. It's so annoying. And like that I'm a psychologist. Like he's, they're just trying to get a little bit more specific of like how they know who I am and like how they could get me.

Right. So annoying. It's all information they could find on the internet. If you were, if you, you would know. This wouldn't be the first time you were hearing about this trial. Yeah. I'm just so annoying because you know me. I don't like stop recording for phone calls ever.

And I'm like, someone's really trying to reach me right now. No, that's why it's so unsettling because it's like constant and they get at your like, at their like your most basic fears. I also don't think if it was, if this was the cops, they would call you that many times. They'd just like leave a voicemail. Right. Leave a voicemail. They would just keep like the policy.

door like yeah the policy is usually not to just keep calling in most businesses until the person answers ah leave me alone okay all right well thank i'm glad you were here i i was going to almost like unmute and like put it on put him on the podcast so you guys can yeah that would have been great that would have been really funny yeah we could have just done a line of we could have like given him a therapy session like why are you doing this right it's okay right maybe it'll happen again And we'll do like a live therapy intervention. He said he's going to call back within the hour. So if he does, I'll leave him on speaker.

Yeah. You can put him in touch with me. Put him in touch with your attorney and then give him my number. Yes. Let him run down a couple of dead ends for a while. Seriously. All right. Okay.

So yeah, I think that if she just kind of freezes it in terms of like, I'm happy to be a guest, but I'm not really, I don't feel like our relationship is at the point where I feel comfortable being, you know, your number one person here. And I will say this. I've heard this actually from patients before. I think it's a thing where you have a friend that hasn't been like a great friend or even like they get a boyfriend or a partner and they start to kind of, you know,

like not prioritize the friendship or not prioritize their female friendships. Right. Kind of get obsessive with this thing. And then pop back up. it's time for a maid of honor or a bridal party and people end up feeling a little used. Used. Right. Yeah.

No, I could agree with that. The friend, it sounds like that might be what's happening here. Like she didn't care about the fizzle. Right. Until she needed her for like to feel like, oh,

I need someone to stand up there with me because I'm going to feel like I don't have any friends, which I didn't care about. But again, weddings are such like a display of what your life is. I think I respect. that saying that, I don't know if I realistically in the world would have the courage to do so. I think I would just be like, I think I would just say like, listen, like, I'm again, I'm so happy

for you that you're getting married. I really don't think I have like the time or the bandwidth to be that involved in the wedding. But like I'm so excited to be there and watch you get married. Yeah. That's fair too. That is fair. And maybe that is like the better way to do it if you were both accepting this fizzle thing. Like she didn't, it's one thing if you're trying to fizzle a friendship and the other person is like not getting it or like, hey, is there something wrong? You haven't been wanting to hang out. Like, are you mad at me or whatever?

Then I think you owe it to that person to address it. I agree. She's already laid the groundwork here for like, again, they're not that. It shouldn't be that shocking that she, that you wouldn't go out of your way to make the time to go. I don't want to go dress shopping with anyone. Right. I really feel like, I mean, honestly, even a very, that's not like my thing.

So I think like, I wouldn't want to like, but I'm certainly not going to waste a Saturday afternoon doing that with someone that I like don't actually feel super close to. And I think she could say I just really don't have the time. Yeah. Or the bandwidth is probably. Yeah. And the truth is she hasn't asked her to be her maid of honor yet. It sounds like. Right. Sounds like she might go no bridesmaids, perhaps.

Right. So if we take this like right now, all you have to do right now is say, I can't make it that day or like I don't dress shopping really isn't my thing or like I don't really love that or I don't think I'm going to be the best person to give an opinion or I'm not available or whatever. Right. And then if she asks, you know, if she continues on, then maybe your strategy can change from like avoidance to more direct communication if needed. Right. And the consequence of that might be that it's a little awkward and it ends the friendship entirely, but it doesn't sound like that would really bother her that much.

Yeah. I think she kind of, from what I gather, she almost wants the friendship to end entirely. And it's just been right. A little bit like hanging on. But yeah, it might the, you know, the end result might be a conversation that ends the friendship. But I could see why this, you know, I think it is important. Again, another PSA, for those of you that are listening out there, if you're in a new relationship or you're, you've just moved in with a partner, make time for your friends. Don't forget about your friends

because you'll need them one day when you get married. You'll need them to stand there and look pretty in a bridesma's dress. So go for drinks, hang out. No, but I do think people get very wrapped up in their romantic relationship and kind of forget that you need to maintain your friendships if you, you know, like for your own health and mental health, but certainly the idea that you pop back up when it's time for a bridal party when you haven't been close the whole time can be offensive. Totally. And expect someone to spend time and money and all that stuff for a non-emotionally intimate

relationship. Yes. kind of annoying. I totally validate the listener. Let us know how that goes. I would love an update on how. Yeah. For sure. You did how the conversation went. All right. Let's do some intentions. Hi, Tridon and Dr. Naomi. Thank you for all the help and support you provide to your listeners. This is my first time writing in. I'm hoping to get some advice or help with an intention for selling my home. I'm in my early 30s and purchased my home on my own in early 2023. This was my most proud achievement.

as I was able to successfully buy in a challenging market and really take on a sense of independence when I needed it most. It helped me finally move on from a difficult to end relationship, and it was a sweet bonding experience for my mom and me as she came with me to all the showings. Since then, I have met my now partner, and we are taking next steps, which include consolidating. We'd like to get married reasonably soon and potentially have children, but we both own our own homes, and it has been difficult to save any money for these future endeavors with two mortgages. After rolling over our options, it was decided that the best decision for us was to sell my home. My partner is incredibly supportive and has been a huge help with renovating and getting the home prepared, not to mention very emotionally supportive. We've been living together full time for a few

months now while getting my house ready and it has been going great. I'm so excited to take next steps and I feel so lucky to have a partner as wonderful as him. But going through the motions of getting ready to sell has me overwhelmed with a sense of grief. I find myself crying a lot when I think about leaving my first home behind me. I want to be happy and excited about starting my future with someone I love so much, but I feel like I'm losing a very important part of my life and giving up an achievement I work so hard for, especially only two to three years later. I'm so proud of my home and being here helped me get through some challenging times. I almost feel a sense of betrayal leaving this home and like I snubbed my past self who wanted nothing more than to have her own space.

I'd love an intention to help get me through these feelings of sadness and grief while simultaneously feeling excited about preparing for a future I've always wanted. Thank you so much for reading and listening, a homesick betch. I really like this question. And I think the form that it's taking for this listener is in this home that she bought for herself. But I think this can happen as part of the transition from somebody who embraced an independent, resilient, you know, single life. then meeting a partner and kind of feeling a little bit conflicted about how to integrate that prior self that was independent and empowered on their own and created this whole, you know, independent life, identity independently, how to now integrate that with a partner and sharing

in whatever it is. Here it's a home. It could just be, you know, where to live. or finances or space, you know, bathroom or just decisions that you have to make together, time spent whose family are you spending time with? Like, where are you vacationing? All the things where you're like, oh, I liked this independent life that I had and I felt really good about it. And I do think this can happen too when someone's single for a long time. And maybe they go through a breakup like she said and they're really,

sad and feel needy and dependent. And then they're like, I figured it out, like how to be happy on my own. Right. And now you're happy with someone else and it feels like, you know. Right. Totally. I think so much of this is like identity wrapped up in like almost like it sounds like she needed to tell herself that she was like this independent or like, not that that's not

true, but she needed to sort of like build the story of herself as like this independent person. who like can be happy on their own and and now she's that maybe there's like a cognitive distance of like okay like I found someone and now I'm just like selling the home that I was so proud of and so excited about and made you know maybe a bigger part of my identity. I had that a little bit when I left my studio apartment in the city. I remember not to this extent. I mean I didn't own it so maybe there was like a little bit. I didn't go through a breakup when I got it. But I remember feeling like I really love this apartment and I loved that.

that like it was just my, it was like my only studio that I like did myself and like the rent. I remember it was like a little higher than I wanted to pay. And it was like a two year lease. And I remember being so scared to get it. And then I got it and I like loved it. And there was like a little bit of a sadness when you're like, you know, also like it seems like this, this relationship is serious. It's probably like a little bit of a commitment thing.

Like you're about to like do all of the trappings of a coupled life. style and it's a little final. It feels like a little like, you know, I remember thinking like, is this the last time that I'll ever live alone? Right. Yeah, it's a huge transition. And I do think, again, that, you know, the resilience piece and like she had a breakup that sounds like that was difficult. And she found her resilience in, I'm assuming working hard at a career where she could save up enough money to buy her own home at a relatively young age and then feeling like now my identity is maybe going to shift into wife and mother. She talks about like they talk about having kids and I, you know, it's hard.

And she's moving into his place. Right. And maybe even him helping you with this thing is like, oh, like there goes like all of my. And now I'm like tethered. Yes. Yeah. moving into his place. I agree. I could, I definitely can validate this. I have even, I have patients sometimes that are like single and they're struggling and they're kind of doing

the work of like, I want to be okay alone. Like I want to have a life that I love that's mine, that's independent. And even if they don't get there, like this listener sounds like she got there and she was happy and doing it and thriving. Even when I have a lot of, patients that don't get there and then they meet someone there sometimes is this feeling of like and then they're happy right there's a feeling of like I didn't want it to come from someone else yeah like I wanted to get there by myself right and almost like feeling guilty or shameful that like oh well now I'm happy because I'm in a relationship right because I have a boyfriend I totally feel that but I mean here's the other thing to remember like she could have had a very happy life before

but clearly she wanted something else from it or she wouldn't be dating this guy. Right. Like if she truly, like absolutely was in love with the single life, I don't think she would be in this serious relationship or would have gotten into it. So I think that like that's something she needs to remember and maybe that's part of your intention is like that's a big, that is something she clearly did really want because she's doing that. Right.

She wouldn't have done it if she didn't want to do it. Totally. And also. And this was kind of where I focused the intention was like, you don't have to lose any of that because you're in a relationship. Like you still did that. Like that was a season of your life where you cultivated. And I keep using the word resilience because she says it was like after a breakup. And this was her way of kind of like gaining back power over her experience and her life by working and doing something and buying this, you know, home that she then.

And it's like it really is an example of like she could have sat there and wallowed and been like, I need to focus on like finding someone else. But she focused on something that she had total control over, which was like earning money and buying a home that didn't depend on anyone else. And I think she can bring that. That's still with her. She still did that. She still built that strength of character that isn't gone just because the house is gone. Like it's not in the house.

It's in her. Right. This resilience that she has. has. Like the house was the object of her resilience, but the resilience lives within her and the independence and the strength and all the things that she, that that house represents for her. Yeah. So the intention that I wrote for you to think about, and maybe we could tweak it to add in, like, and I, you know, there's something beneficial. Like I, and I'm looking forward and excited to a life in partnership. It kind of includes that. Right. The resilience and independence I found during

that time is not lost. I will use it to build the foundation of a healthy life in partnership. So the best partnerships are the ones where you have your own stuff, you have your own independence, you have your own empowerment, whereas you're not going to be like just totally dependent on the whims of his moods. And if he feels more loving today or less loving today or right, you know, you're going to be like, okay, he can be in a bad mood and like maybe not kiss me when I walk in the door and I'm not going to like fall apart. Because I know that I have my own stuff that doesn't involve him. Totally.

And you probably won't become like the girl in the last email who, in the betchesist email who didn't have any friends because she spent all her time with her boyfriend. Yes. Totally. I do, I really do think that like having this balanced life where you're making time for your career and you're making time for your friends and you're also enjoying being in partnership and all of it is within you. None of this is within the house or even that particular friend or that particular partner. It's all in you in the capacity to kind of be all

of these things and enhance your life in many different ways. So yeah, I'm happy for you. I think, and it will be a grief. You can grief process. You can go in there and cry and feel sad and, you know, more in the loss of that place that you probably put a lot of work into, but the symbolism of it is, I think, what you're really feeling. Yeah. No, I agree. All right, let's play some triggers. Let's do it. I'm going to read our first one. I will read the first one here. Love the pod. I'm a day one listener and can't get enough of you too. I have a situation that I'd love to get your take on. I somewhat recently became friends with a neighbor. We're similar in age, both married with dogs seem to have a similar style and values, and I'm a new mom while she's

pregnant. We've gone for a few walks together around the neighborhood and follow each other on Instagram. I'm writing in about something she posted to her Instagram story that for some reason I can't stop thinking about. It's a repost of something Ms. Rachel recently posted, that more or less dates not to ask people if they want to start a family or have more kids because they could be grieving a miscarriage. I do know that she had two miscarriages before her current successful third trimester pregnancy because she told me this the first time we went for a walk. I tend to be an open book and have an ADHD style of blunt honesty. So I usually skip the polite small talk when getting to know someone and ask real questions about their life while also being vulnerable and sharing,

probably oversharing about my own life. When I saw this Instagram story, I was surprised. I feel like I've definitely asked my friends or acquaintances like women have taken a few workout classes with if they have or are planning to start a family. As a new mom, I'm pretty deep in the motherhood discourse and spend a lot of my time and energy thinking and talking about motherhood and family. If I ask someone this question, it's to get to know them better and bond with them. And I think it's pretty basic information to share. When I clicked on the Instagram story, I realized quite a few my friends had liked it and got me thinking, am I in the wrong here? What is our responsibility for not triggering others by asking basic questions versus their own responsibility for regulating their

emotions and being able to answer basic questions about their life to get to know someone better? How do we know which questions are off limits and which we can ask? I see a lot of posts like this on Instagram these days. I understand they're raising awareness about issues we might not realize others are going through. But to be honest, it makes me socially anxious. and worried that I will offend someone when I'm trying to get to know them. Thanks for your help to ask or not to ask. I thought this was a very interesting question. It seems like she's triggered by seeing the story that other people are triggered.

Right. By this question, which is funny. I think this topic is a little more nuanced than like both the ways that she's presenting it as like, ask or don't ask. I disagree with her that I think that do you want? children, do you want more children? Do you have, like, is a, is a basic question to ask? Is a, like, basic information to share? I don't think that's basic information. I think it actually involves a lot of nuance for a lot of people, even if they, even if they're not having miscarriages, I think, do you want a third kid is like a kind of a loaded question that a lot of people have, like,

vulnerable and intimate thoughts about. So I don't agree with her that, like, you should ask everyone at your workout class. Right. What their status is on their fertility. And that's, like, something everyone's entitled to know. Do I see how this could come up in a conversation when you're getting to know someone and it not be, like, offensive or rude? Yes.

Also, I can also see, like, where that would, it could feel like a natural question to ask when you're on that topic talking with someone. So I don't think it's, like, super black. black and white. Don't ever ask anyone if they're going to have more kids or if they're if they want kids or anything like that. But also it doesn't have to be you're entitled to that information for anyone or you should ask anyone you just met that, especially out of context. Right. Yeah. And I get it with like the pregnant friend. I think asking like do you want more kids isn't like doesn't feel like an invasive question. I do get your perspective.

of like maybe that's not like a first or second time meeting question because of the fact that it is very loaded for a lot of people. But I do. And she probably wrote in here knowing like perhaps what at least my take might be on this, which is I do think it is interesting to think about like maybe it is someone's responsibility to just say, I don't know or I don't really want to talk about that. Or, you know, actually that's a pretty loaded question for me. I'd rather not discuss it. or something where you're just like, do we all walk? And she said she's seen a lot of, you know, posts like this about, and I talk about like, don't talk about someone's body shape or like, don't, you know, there's certain things

that, you know, you feel like should be off limits. And it is very nuanced in terms of what's off limits. But I do think we generally, I think as a population, need to be able to take more responsibility for our own emotions and our own triggers. Obviously, that's kind of what therapy does. It makes you, like, aware that this is my sensitivity. I've talked it out with my therapist many times. I know this is, like, my issue, and I'm very comfortable with it.

So I'm not constantly getting my, like, sensitive, don't touch me, wounds touched, that I can tolerate. Even if you don't want to talk about it in that moment, that's fine to just be able to say, I don't really want to talk about that or, you know, I'm sorry, that's loaded for me or, you know, I actually don't know the answer to that, something where you're like going to own the reality of it for yourself. Yeah. And I agree with that.

I think there's some, there is so some, like you wouldn't go around asking everyone you just met how much they weigh. Right. Or how much money they make or like. Yeah. Or how much. Right. Yeah.

Like why. I'm kind of like that those are also equally, I think, personal. Not maybe not equally, but it could be maybe more personal for some people and less personal for other people than questions about this. I think you see a lot of this also from like influencers or people online who have a public life and maybe are like, you know, you have like random commenters or random people online who are like speculating or asking or feel like it's a, you know, it's their, it's their business or their, you know, right to know information about you and maybe that extends to just like everyday people too where it's like yeah I do think there's

certain topics that are sort of universally accepted as like a little bit more sensitive like the weight or how much money do you make or like I mean there are some people we've gotten different emails about that people writing in where it's like yeah sometimes someone like is a lot more free and kind of oversharing and asks a lot more questions and that can be fine for them but it doesn't necessarily mean that like someone else could can could see that as rude like do you ever anyone who's like how much that cost right someone who's like ask and someone could say like that's just basic information to share and someone else is like no like there's actually you know a little bit of a tact around that so right and the tax part is hard because I

I do think that there is a part of it where it's like you're trying to like depends what type of relationship you want. Like I could think of five people right now that I'm casual acquaintances with that I'm so tactful that our relationship is never going to get any deeper because like we're not having those conversations. Like right. Even asking someone like, are you close with your parents? Like maybe one of their parents died. Maybe they have a conflicted relationship with their parents. Like but also like that's real. So I get this listener and I will say this like, I feel her because I like to have real conversations and I also don't like to engage in especially like long periods of months of like surface level chat with people.

And maybe you say the thing. It doesn't feel good to offend anyone, but they might just not want to be your friend now or they might think you're rude or you might have triggered them. and now they're not your friend, but maybe your people are the ones that are going to also want to go there and be comfortable with, you know, whatever is going on in their life and be willing and open to share. Maybe after like two exercise classes,

I could see the point. Maybe that's not where you're at. But if you're looking for deep friendships, you're going to have to go there. I mean, one suggestion is maybe going there in a way where you're like, you share. Mm-hmm. and then just I was going to say that.

That was my suggestion. I think that's like the most respectful way to do something is that's like if you, you know, show don't tell. Like if you, if your thing is you, you don't like small talk and that's my thing too. I don't really like that either. But I'm not,

I don't think that means you're entitled to everyone else's information at like the vulnerability level that you desire. But you could, but I'm getting like the best way for you to see that is so you keep sharing. If that's something that you're comfortable with and that you like, you keep sharing as much as you want. And then you'll find the other people that you connect with by people who voluntarily share that information with you and seem to connect with you in that in that way. And like it doesn't mean that everyone has to connect that way or everyone opens up in the same amount of time as you.

Right. Yep. I agree. I, you know, I certainly don't think that you should sit in shame or feel like you did something wrong. But yeah, maybe a tweak to it is you share and you will find the person that's like looking to share. in response. And in the right context. I wouldn't ask that kind of question, like, in a group setting with, like, people who just, you know, took a workout class and don't really know each other that well. I think, like, ask the question when you're having, like, a thoughtful conversation or an update about your own life. Right. Or, like, how do you feel if you go to a workout class with someone and they're like, oh, I got to run? I got to pick my, you know, two-year-old up from daycare. And they're like, do you have kids? I think do you have kids as basic information. That doesn't bother me.

Right. That doesn't bother. Do you have, I think do you have kids is different than do you want, do you want kids? Do you want more kids? Like, I think asking, like, do you have kids is a fact? And yeah, sometimes in the worst moments of that experience that can feel a little hurtful, but I'm never like, I can't believe they asked if I had kids. Like that's a, I have kids or I don't have kids.

Right. Right. Do you want kids is more nuanced or like, do you want kids? Are you thinking of starting a family? family soon. Are you like, do you want more kids? I think people who have like, you know, who have one kid and maybe get asked that question a lot and feel like a, again, I think there's like a lot that goes into that into that stuff. I think like more about like what your wants and and needs are a little bit more complicated. Yeah. Do you want like would you ask like a single,

like do you want to get married? Like do you want to, you know, I just think we would all be better off angry, less easily triggered, more self-aware. And I get it. We live in this world and people have wounds and we don't want to upset people. But I do think if we could work towards like knowing that that's something that's like a vulnerable spot for you and just being able to own that instead of being like, don't ask me that. I don't like that question because it makes me think about this thing that's upsetting

for me. and said like if it's that upsetting for you, you're probably thinking about it at some point anyway, maybe not in that moment, but for people to be like, yeah, she definitely, I felt that pang of, I don't know,

I don't know, like we keep talking about should we have another one? I feel really overwhelmed with the one that we have right now and I feel selfish for not wanting another kid, whatever that chatter is that you're like, I can't go into this with this person. I just met them, you know? Right.

Just owning that for yourself of like, I'd rather not talk about that. I don't really know. And then in your own self kind of being like, all right, that's coming up again. I can handle that. I think it's okay to be a little more aware, though, too. Like I've gotten into trouble on the other side of it too. And I've told you I've had a single friend that I asked a lot about their dating life.

Right. And they were like, I don't really want to talk. And I don't really want to talk about that. I don't really want you to ask me about that. And you know, and I'm also like, okay, I could get that. And like this listener, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, that's a passion of. of mine. I love talking about dating and relationships. It's not like, it's almost not about you.

It's about me. Right. Right. But yeah, I agree. I think like there's to an extent you can be and I think sometimes it feels like it's maybe more on the internet and more as you see people with like a following or something like. We've talked to

many people on baby steps who are like the commenters are like where's are you, are you going to have another? Are you going to have a kid? Why haven't you had a kid yet? Like we're like, almost feels like strangers. Like I do think you need to have some level of conversation and intimacy to get into those conversations.

They're not, most things shouldn't just be asked to anyone and everyone. Right. Yeah, I get it. And yeah, I think that's a great tip is just like you share. And if they're looking for that type of connection, they will then share in response. Right. All right. Good luck.

let's do one more triggered. Let's roll the tape. Hi, Dr. Bernstein and Jordana. You could probably tell by the time stand for this voicemail, which is after midnight, that I am overthinking a little bit, or maybe you can help me with whether or not this is very triggering.

but I was diagnosed with stage four endometriosis last year, and I had a really big excision surgery, had multiple appointments with my endometriosis specialist, flashed surgeon, you know, healed pretty well with some challenges, of course, from surgery last year in May. It is now August 2025, I've been experiencing some symptoms of intermediaries returning, and I haven't really heard a lot from my specialist. I know she went on maternity leave.

I just happened to Google her, and she moved to Phoenix. And I know for a fact I haven't gotten any memo or anything from the hospital or, you know, the team that she was associated with. and I already have some anxiety issues as well, some abandonment wounds, and I just found this to be very, very triggering. So I want to know your thoughts on a scale of 1 to 10, how triggering do you think that is, that your specialist doctor, you know, for a disorder that, again, stage 4, not fun. also just found out that you can apparently get that in your face and brain endometriosis growth. So I'm kind of styling a little bit.

But I think is it normal for that to happen without any sort of, hey, by the way, your doctor doesn't live in the state anymore and is no longer going to be handling your care. Let me know what you think. Thank you. Bye. So this was an interesting one. I think like in the past, if I've had a doctor that's moved away, I've gotten like a letter

in the mail saying that they're no longer part of the practice. Yeah. I think you always feel... You're supposed to do that. Right? I feel like you always, I always feel like a little something. Even, you know, I've had that with like my OBGYN where it's like they move to a different state.

And you're like, oh, that feels like a little bit of like annoying or like the end of an era or something. Yeah. or even like I like this person. They seem like they know, know me. We grew some kind of a, you know, relationship, health care relationship. And now I have to start over and like do a Google search, like find a new doctor that could be anyone.

And that just the process of having to find, especially like she's talking about when she has this very, you know, severe condition that's like requires a specialist. and I mean, this reminds me sort of of my situation that I had with the, you know, therapist. That was just like, like, okay, I guess we're done here. Yeah. Right. You're not really allowed to do that. Like, I think there's a protocol, even as a medical doctor, if you're leaving the state and you're no longer available to your patients that you have to let them know.

And you even have to let them know with a certain. within a certain period of time of you leaving that so that they can try to find someone new. Like let's say she did have like severe symptoms suddenly one day and she calls her doctor to like get in quickly or and they're like, oh yeah, forgot to tell you. She's not here. Right. Maybe she's still doing telehealth. Yeah.

And like would be available to you in that way. And maybe that's why maybe she's still like seeing paid. But I feel like that you wouldn't be doing. you wouldn't be doing a surgery, obviously, if you don't live in the same state, I would imagine. I could see how this would be, she says it's triggering. And I think she, I don't, I wouldn't, I don't think I see it as triggering, but I can see how someone would see it as triggering because, and she's talking about, like, abandonment issues or like this feeling of like, did this doctor actually care about me? It's just this practice care about me. Am I just like, are they just making money off of me or do they actually care about my health if they cared about my, I could see the spiraling of like, am I now like, am I now like?

like in danger because I don't have a doctor and does this, did this practice who I trusted, not even care enough to tell me. Like I could see this mental spiral that she's going down. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And I just think when,

because she had this severe case of it, they did a surgery around it. It does feel nice to feel like, okay, if there's a problem, I know who to call. Right. You know,

like I've even had almost like, if you have like a dental procedure, and you're worried that there's an infection and, you know, you can't get a hold of the dentist. You're like, oh, my God, like, what if this is the worst case scenario? And I have no point of contact here. Right. And I had to Google it myself to find out that they weren't there. Yeah.

Right. Exactly. And now she does need to start a new search for a new doctor and get comfortable with that person. So, yeah, I actually just, I don't think there's, when you have an MD or, you know, or a sci-D or a PhD or like you have these licenses, a licensed psychologist or licensed medical doctor, there's the reason why that is upheld to a different standard than like a Reiki healer who's just going to like rub their hands over your belly

or whatever. I mean, there might even be like a licensed Reiki healer. I don't know. And I like no crapping on Reiki. I like it. But like these professional licenses are in part because you know, know that the person has had specific training.

And they're also in part because you conduct yourself in a professional manner where you're not just like leaving out of the state and not telling anybody or like saying, hey, you know, I'm just going to end this therapy without any closure or termination session or whatever it is. Like there are licensing boards for a reason. And it's to prevent things like this. I'm pretty sure I haven't looked it up, but I would venture to guess. that there is a protocol for a doctor leaving state that says you have to notify your patients,

which is why you've gotten those. Like I remember getting, yeah, gotten those letters. Like I remember getting a letter from some doctor that I went to like one time two years ago for like one single visit saying like they're leaving. And I'm like, who? Right. Oh, right. I went to that person that one time.

I mean, I guess would that have made her feel better? she might still feel abandoned, but she might feel at least more considered. I would call and like complain. I mean, maybe they sent it. It got lost in the mail. I don't know. I guess that's possible. I could see there being some sort of reasonable explanation for this, especially

if that's like the protocol that people are supposed to follow. Doesn't mean it's not triggering. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I disagree that she would feel like if they, if they sent the letter, she might be like, oh, that sucks. Like I have to find someone new. But I don't think it would feel as like the.

just disappeared, which is why they have these rules in the first place, because this is a normal feeling that someone's like, okay, you're taking care of my health and I want to feel like I need to rely on you. Right. Or find someone else that I can rely on if I have a health problem that needs to be addressed. So you don't have to first start like researching doctors if she's experiencing like severe pelvic pain because of her endometriosis. On top of that, now she has to start like searching for someone else, which is why they tell you. So she can line up somebody else. So that if she does have a problem, she has like continuity of care.

Okay. Well, so validated. I would call the office. I would call the office and be like, what's up with that? Yeah. Again, maybe there is a explanation that might make her feel a little bit less, um, upset or triggered. But at least she could vent it out in the right place and be like,

yeah, yell at the office stuff. Yeah. Yeah, this didn't make me feel good. And maybe they'll realize like, oh, yeah, probably should have made sure we did that. Agreed. All right. Well, I guess I would rate this pretty high then after this conversation. I don't know.

Six? Yeah, I was going to say six. Six okay. Five, six. Yeah. I don't want to force your hand. I think what you're saying is like. Part of me is like she had the surgery already.

It seems like it's like over. Like if this happened, this is. If she's supposed to have the surgery next month or next week or like in the coming, even if she any, even if it's coming up and they didn't tell her the doctor that she's supposed to use is not there. I could see feeling really like anxious about that and abandoned and like you, you know, you trusted this practice. But I did, I do feel like because there's nothing necessarily to do in the moment, it sounds like. It wouldn't be as triggering, I think to me because it would be like. there's nothing I immediately really need from this person. It's more like a what if I needed something than like I actually need something. And the chances are that she would have like an emergency around this are probably more slim. I get that perspective. Maybe we'll agree on like a five.

I don't think it's a nothing. But I also think she knows now and she can move on and find someone else to take care of her. All right. Well, we did it. We did it. We helped some people. Keep the updates coming. Love to hear what happens after the fact if we got it right, even if we got it wrong.

Still happy to hear about it. Yeah. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Betches.