Oversharing - Baby Steps: Dealing with Secondary Infertility Ft. Gaby Dalkin

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

Jordana returns for another episode of Baby Steps, presented by BetterHelp, and this week she’s joined by food & lifestyle writer Gaby Dalkin to talk about overcoming five miscarriages before finally becoming a mother. She tells us about her experience with infertility, including a chemical pregnancy and a septum surgery, and what it took to finally have a daughter. They talk about maintaining a positive mindset, and swap stories about why unsolicited advice isn’t always helpful. Plus, they discuss secondary infertility, including what comes next if you’re hoping to have more than one child. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor, BetterHelp! Visit BetterHelp.com/BABYSTEPS today to get 10% off your first month. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello and welcome to Baby Steps presented by BetterHelp. I'm your host, Jordana Abraham. And on Baby Steps, we're exploring the various paths to parenthood that lay ahead when starting a family doesn't come easy. With the help of weekly guests, I'm taking you on my own fertility journey and asking the questions that need to be asked. Trying to have a baby, especially when you experience obstacles, can be a huge emotional and mental challenge. And that's why I invited BetterHelp to join us as the presenting sponsor of Baby Steps. If you're thinking of starting therapy, I recommend giving BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, convenient, and suited to your schedule.

Just go to betterhelp.com slash baby steps today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, help.com slash baby steps. Therapy can give you the tools to navigate the difficult transitions in life, and the path to parenthood is definitely one of them. My guest today is food and lifestyle writer, Gabby Dalkin, to talk about secondary infertility and overcoming multiple fertility challenges. But before we get to Gabby, as always, here's my sister, Dr. Naomi Bernstein, welcome back. Hello. Happy to be here. Yeah, it's, I'm excited for you guys to listen to this episode. This is our final

episode of this season of Baby Steps. I hope you guys have really enjoyed the show. I've really, it's been a really cathartic experience for me to have been recording all these episodes. And if you guys really like it, definitely let us know, leave us a review and we will potentially be back with another season. This episode, we talked a lot about secondary and fertility. which I don't think is really discussed quite as much as primary infertility, which is, you know, when you don't have any children and you have trouble conceiving. Totally. And it's something that people probably don't really even think about almost like you envision sometimes.

And I can ask you this personal question. Like when you envision having a baby and a family, do you envision? I mean, obviously we come from a family of many, many children. So like part of the envisioning of that might be you automatically jump to, two or three or however many think you want to have. Yeah. No, I definitely picture myself with multiple children. I mean, this whole infertility process has kind of been like a mental gymnastics thing of like, you know, getting used to things that I didn't, that didn't align with the way I thought my life was going. So, you know, I think about however many kids I want to have. Like,

I'm now, I started this process at 32. I'm 34 now. I'm kind of like, let's see how it goes. Let's see how quick, how, you know, I originally thought I wanted three kids. Now I'm like, well, do I want three kids that close together? Because I'm also, you know, getting a little older. We'll see, you know, we'll see how old I am when I have the first one. Now I'm sort of more of the like, let's see how it goes. Let's see how difficult it is. Let's see how it's because it's like the marginal difference. And we talk this about this little bit with Gabby between zero and one seems a lot bigger than one in two or two and three or three and four just in terms of like what you get from parenthood and also the responsibility I'm sure too no totally although I think the flip side is

sometimes you don't realize that there's something about wanting to have not just for you but for your child to have a sibling that can be a real loss or a grief process if you can't get there or it's difficult to get there, which you don't, people don't really think about because you're kind of like, okay, I want to be a mother. Okay, I've gotten to be a mother. I have this identity. I have this thing. And like, that should be enough. Right. But I think there is a process that comes along with realizing. And then you might kind of take for, like, let's say the first one just happens automatically and very easily. And then all of a sudden you're like, whoa, this kind of came out of the blue, like not thinking that this was going to be difficult to do.

do this again. Yeah. And I think all that stuff really does come into play and becomes like a real factor as it should. You know, it's, I mean, if you have the privilege to just kind of have kids and not think about what goes into taking them like it's easy to say however many kids you think you want. But, you know, when you realize the toll, it makes you reevaluate a little bit. And Gabby went through five miscarriages before she had her first. And I think that one thing I really, loved about my conversation with her was she just seemed kind of like at ease and peaceful. And she was very honest about that. She's like part of it is like I do already have my daughter. And there is sort of like it does take a little bit of the pressure off of that. But part of that she said, because I asked

her, I'm like, you seem so calm because she was like, you know, we're going to try to have the second. We're going to do another round of egg retrievals and embryo freezing. She's like, well, I do two more rounds like I don't know like right we'll see but like probably not and but she was she it wasn't like probably not and this is devastating it was kind of like we'll see how it goes and I asked her I'm like how do you have this like I love your attitude about it it's kind of like it would be great if it happened and if it doesn't like you know I love my daughter we will be okay and she did say like part of that is due to already having her daughter um and part of that she said is just about like her, like loving her life otherwise, that she has a lot more going on.

She's like a very successful chef. And, you know, she's very big on Instagram and TikTok. She has multiple cookbooks. She's like really loves her life. And I think when she thinks of having children and she thinks of it is just like one part of the big pie of her life, that does allow her to have that mentality, which I was like inspired by looking into it. Totally.

And I think for me, when you say that, it boils down to like creating an identity and what are the pieces of your identity that, you know, what would you like it to be? And then how do you have to tweak it given the circumstances? So I think she has this identity as being a mother, which I think satisfies that piece. And then she's, you know, has her business and, you know, everything else that she's doing. So she feels like she has this very full identity. So I think sometimes before you get the first one, it kind of feels like I just can't. I can be an aunt. I can be a, you know, a caretaker.

I can be like motherly in these ways. But I don't, can't fully immerse myself in this identity. So having the second one doesn't change your identity as much as, you know, going from zero to one. So I think that's why it feels huge. Totally. Yeah. I think that's a big, that's a big part of it, despite, you know, that,

kind of being annoying part of the case. Yeah. For anyone struggling to just get one and there can be feelings of, you know, well, this person, I think maybe that's why there's not as much attention paid to secondary infertility because there's feeling of like, well, you have one. Right. So, like, I don't have any. Yes.

Yeah. But it's its own unique struggle and just like the idea of having one kid is an identity. The idea of having multiple kids is its own identity too, I'm sure, like as much as it's about the actual children and just loving being around children, having children, but like having a, having the exact family structure that you envision in your mind, I think is another big part of it. Right. And her calmness probably, you know, I know you said it's kind of inspiring to you,

but I think like you've said before, you've had to adjust to the idea of like this isn't happening the way that I envisioned that it's happening. And then when you have one and you thought you'd be able to do two or you have a bunch of embryos left or whatever and you thought you could just keep moving and have the second one. And then that's not happening the way you envisioned it. Maybe perhaps for her, I don't know. She gets to a place where she's like, I've gotten used to that this train is going to kind of run off the track sometimes. And I've learned how to tolerate that a little bit better. Right. No, and that's a really helpful piece of advice too. It's kind of like, and that helps you stay in it

longer. You know, we talked about on previous episodes, like, when are you kind of like enough is enough? And I think when there's, there's this feeling sometimes when people talk about having kids where it's like, whatever it takes, like, by all means necessary. And like, that's not always realistic for people or sometimes people don't really want to do that. Right. She's like, I would love to do this thing. And I think the more things that you can have to affirm the identity that you want to have or that you feel confident in, the more, the easier it is to sort of take a step back and ask like, well, what do I actually want? What is the story I've told for myself versus what are my actual real needs? Is it something I really want or is this something I just feel like

I've already told myself I should want and have? Yes. And that's why I'm, I keep pushing forward with it. Yes. And that's a great question for people to ask themselves. Like, is this because I want to fit in? Is this because I feel like this is what I should do or this is just like what I've been programmed to think that it should look like. my whole life. And I think sometimes you can regain some power by pausing and being like, wait, what about the day to day is what I'm really looking for? What's the feeling in my body? What's the, you know, what am I actually looking for by seeking this thing versus just kind of blindly trudging towards this identity that, you know, I'm sure there's, like when you do the exploration, you're going to find the reasons, but I think it's still a helpful exercise. Yeah. And it's like that,

I think with dating a lot too, you know, sometimes. dating can feel overwhelming. And then when you, when I remember, if you take a step back and you're like, what am I actually looking to get out of this? Is it like a boyfriend? Or is it like a feeling of being with someone that I, you know, really, like, what is the actual thing that you want from this can guide the way you feel about it? Yes.

Yeah. And you can just get caught up in the challenge almost of like, you know, I'm trying. I just want to keep trying because like I don't want to have it all be for nothing or I don't want to, you know. So there's a lot of exploration that can go on here. And I think going from one to two might make it a little bit easier to have some of that exploration happen. Agreed. And have that calmness like what you're describing that she has. Yeah. But she was great, super inspiring. I hope you guys enjoy the episode. And I hope you guys enjoyed this season. Okay. So let's get to Gabby. Please welcome our special guest, Gabby Dalkin. So excited.

to have you on here. Gabi is a cookbook author, private chef, entrepreneur, and food and lifestyle writer. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to have you. I was recently sent an Instagram post that you had posted and you have such a huge following and I love what you're doing on Instagram with your recipes. Like once I get back to cooking, I'm going to be all over that. But everything you post looks amazing. So anyway, someone sent me this Instagram post that you post that you post. did that was sort of everything that I was thinking going through like IVF and infertility. And it was a fairly recent post just talking about having to have your second child. So I'm really excited to have you on to talk about that and just talk about your whole story. Thank you. Yeah. I'm an open book. Where do you want to start? Let's start at the beginning, I would say. Like when did you first start thinking about having kids and how did that whole process go? just kind of walk me through. Sure. So all of my friends are a couple years older than me for the most

part. So everyone started having kids probably like six or seven, eight years ago. So it like kind of sort of started to like percolate my mind basically. And I, we, we waited another year or two till start trying. And then when we started trying, we got pregnant. And I remember going over to my parents' house after like, peeing on a stick and being like, hey guys, guess what? I'm pregnant. And I expected this crazy reaction from them. I was like ready for them to jump up and down and be so excited. And I got like, that's amazing. Congratulations. But like let's get through the first 12 weeks. And I was like, excuse me? Like my parents are doctors. Like we come from a medical family. So like they had already known about, you know, miscarriages and the percentage of people that

experienced them, blah, blah, blah. So we walked out of there and I, you know, I went to my first couple appointments. I ended up hearing a heartbeat and then the next week, nothing. So that was our first miscarriage and that probably had to be back in 2017, 2018 perhaps at this point. And that was how many weeks? In eight or nine weeks. All of my miscarriages are between eight and ten weeks. Got it. Okay. So that happened a few more times before we like sought out any sort of medical advice and I started going to see a fertility doctor. So I think by the time I had had three or four miscarriages all around that same time frame. We met my current fertility doctor, Dr. Wong, who I'm just absolutely obsessed with. And I will force him to be my friend when this whole experience is over. He's going to be

invited to Friendsgiving for the rest of time. And we've run every single test under the sun. This was now fast forward to 2020. We were about to start an IVF. The first time we were going to do IVF and COVID happened. You've been trying for like three years at that point. Yeah. And having maybe like one to two miscarriages a year and like not really being upset about it or anything but just being like this sucks like this is much harder than I anticipated I remember when we were younger and I was like oh my god we can't get pregnant we just got married or before we got married whatever it was like I was like don't get pregnant gobbie and now I'm like oh well it's quite hard to get pregnant actually for me or it's hard to stay pregnant for me so anyways COVID happens

and we you know like everything shuts down my book tour gets canceled I was supposed to go on a book and randomly in that time frame, we had been drinking a lot of wine and just got pregnant one day. So I went in for my blood work to get my HG done, and it was decent. And then I went in two days later, and it was zero. And my doctor was like, okay, like, unfortunate. And I was like, oh, it's a chemical pregnancy, whatever this has happened before. Like, I'm not worried about it. And he's like, okay, call me when your period starts.

We'll get started on IV. And I was like, okay, two weeks go by, three weeks go by. three weeks go by never get a period and i'm i call my dad one morning and i'm like dad this is really weird like i still haven't gotten a period after this you know like zero hcg could something be wrong and i was like i'm talking to him and peeing on a sick at the same time again my dad's a doctor so like this doesn't phase him and i'm literally on the phone with him and i'm like holy shit it says i'm still pregnant i haven't even told my husband at this point i call my doctor and i was like Dr. Wong, like I'm, I still am getting pregnancy tests that are positive and you said my

HCG was zero. Turns out somehow in the middle of like the COVID mayhem that was happening at all doctor's office, my blood test was mixed up with someone else's. Oh my God. Yeah. So I was pregnant. Okay. Yeah.

I hadn't either. Well, I kind of, but like that's not the point. But anyways, the blood test was wrong and I was quite pregnant. I mean, I was like five weeks pregnant, but like it was not zero. Probably like tens of thousands at least, I would imagine. Yes, like my HDG was very high. And so we went in and I was closely monitored and we had a healthy pregnancy start to finish. And that's how we had pop poppy, my daughter, who's now almost three.

So before all this, you know, none of the tests came back with anything to explain why. You said you had four met miscarriages before your daughter. Yeah. So we have something called unexplained infertility. I've done every autoimmune test, every genetic. Anything, I've spent the most disgusting amount of money on tests and everything is normal. It's just to me, the way my doctor has explained this to me and I've kind of figured it out my brain, it's an egg issue for us.

We know Thomas's sperm is fine, but for me, it's about finding the right egg. I'm 37. I started this whole process when I was in my 30s and like maybe my eggs are just a little bit older and more tired. and they're not all great. So like, it takes me a long time to to ovulate out a healthy egg. Do they test the embryos from the miscarriages? We did test two of them and they were mosaic. Okay.

So again, most likely an egg issue. So, yeah. But like, otherwise all these tests have come back with nothing. I mean, I'm sure there are probably more tests we could do that are like even more complicated and expensive in tests for like crazy things. But like, I don't, for me, I don't think that's my issue. Okay. So, yeah. So they're thinking it's an egg issue because everything with your body, all the blood tests and immune tests and all that other stuff seems to be coming back normal. So you have your daughter.

And this was what year? We have Poppy in January of 2021. January of 2021. Okay. And so, I mean, I'm sure after all, after the years of trying, that was like very, it felt like, okay, my troubles are behind me. It was incredible. And like it's my being a mom is just my absolute favorite thing. And she's so much fun.

She's exactly like me, which is truly terrifying for her high school years. But like, that's okay. We'll get there one day. But after we have her, you know, maybe about a year, when she turned a year, maybe a year and a half, we started trying again. Just, you know, casually, naturally, nothing. No miscarriages for those first couple months even. Like, I just wasn't even getting pregnant.

So then we decided, okay, like, let's just try IVF. Like, what, this is great. We can test the embryos. I know I don't, I'm not really affected by surgeries. I've had so many surgeries shaping my uterus over the past and like getting a septum out and cleaning me out after miscarriages like the anesthesia part of it doesn't bother me. Let's just try. Oh, you've also had septum. Oh yeah. Okay. I've had that too. So I wasn't sure how rare that was. I had a septum surgery and that's right after when I got pregnant with poppy. So I was like,

oh, maybe it was my septum. Maybe I was implanting right there and it was just not getting blood flow, which is why I was miscarrying. Right. Who knows? I mean, that's the shittiest part of the fertility process. You don't know. We just never know some of these things. Right.

No one's ever going to tell you no doctor is ever going to be like. And this was the issue. And like if we get rid of this, you will be fine. Yeah. So it feels like there's with fertility stuff, it always feels like there's so many moving parts. You know, it all has to come together in the exact correct way. It's why. When did you have your septum surgery?

Um, this summer. Okay. Yes. And like easy recovery, everything? Easy recovery, but then I did an IVF transfer and I had an ectopic. So now I'm in the post-ectopic like waiting period of trying that again. And the ectopic pregnancy, sorry, this is a silly question, probably. I had a friend who did it and one of her fallopian tubes like burst. Was that what happened to you?

So because it was IVF and I was seeing a fertility doctor, they got, they were monitoring it super, super closely. Like from when it was like the HCG was. like four. They would check it like every two days. So at the point, when it got big enough to the point where they could tell that it was ectopic, they have been like searching for it. So it didn't get big enough to rupture, thankfully. And I took like the shot. So they, they, they left the tube in place, which is good because I like having both tubes. I'll keep them both. So like the septum surgery happened. We got pregnant with Poppy. And then we just weren't getting pregnant. So we were like, let's try IVF. Last November, we decided to do IVF. I did all the drugs, shot myself up,

and did the retrieval. I don't have a ton of eggs, so it didn't, I didn't have a hard time with the recovery. Like, I know a lot of my friends who have frozen their eggs who get 30 follicles, 40 follicles, like they have a rough time coming out of it. I got like 16. So I had no problems with the recovery afterwards. I think 12 of them were good size, like matured. follicles. And then they grew them, you know, to day five or six. And six of them made it there. And they sent those out for testing. And two came back genetically good, quote, unquote. I'm saying quote unquote, because both resulted in miscarriages. And then over that course of the year, we implanned, we had one chemical pregnancy naturally. And then we implanted two. And one miscarried

at nine weeks after I had hurt the heartbeat and then one just never took. Okay. And those were tested. So, right. So, and so where are you at now? So now we're trying to figure out if we're going to do another round. I mean, the shots to do a round of IV, like of egg retrieval don't bother me, but the progesterone shots in your butt are awful.

They just hurt so bad sometimes. and I don't like them. Yeah. And I mean, especially, I think, like, if you're someone who's had an IVF transfer and then you've done the, if you're, if you're miscarrying at weeks eight, nine, you were like, you did, you've been doing them for two months. Yeah. Seemingly for nothing.

Yeah. You put the work in. You deserve to have that work, but not always the case. And your butt's bruised and it's deformed. Right. So like the thought of doing all. I think where we're at is we'll do one more round of egg. retrieval. To me, there's three outcomes of that. And a round of egg retrieval, it works or it doesn't

work. And we implant if we get any good embryos. Or we just try naturally and see how long it takes us to find a good egg. Or Poppy's an only child. Like that, I realize it's very easy for me to say these things, having Poppy because she's amazing. And I love, like, I have a child. If I didn't have a child, this would be, I would feel much more, like I would be looking for a lot more answers. Right. So I mean, yeah, that was going to be my next question was like, you know, going through secondary infertility, does it kind of, in some senses, take a little bit of the edge off the whole process, although obviously it's still very trying. Yeah, it sucks, period.

Yeah. But, like, yes, it is easy for me because I already have a little cute toddler who, like, keeps my hands full. So I don't know if I would have said the same thing had we not. I know I wouldn't have said the same thing had we not had Poppy. Like it would be a very different answer. So I feel fortunate in that I can say that. But, you know, I would love to give her a sibling. I'm one of two. Thomas is one of three. Like we, I would love for her to have someone, you know, to lean on when we're older and we're not around. Right. And is it harder to do? I mean, all these fertility treatments can probably feel like a part-time job. I know it does for me. And I don't have any kids right now. So I can only imagine like doing it plus your job, plus having a kid is probably makes it a lot more stressful. Like, how much time do you spend going to the office? Like, you probably see the people, the nurses more than some of your friends. And I'm like, I'm quite literally friends

with some of the nurses now. I bring them cookies. I'm like, you guys are, I see you more than my best friend. Like, we are in this together. It's so tedious. But at the same time, I, to me, I remind myself that, like, I have a platform where I can share this and do stigmatize fertility and help spread my story so other people feel less alone. And when I share, I share, that Instagram post that you mentioned at the top of the show, I had probably 10,000 DMs. I haven't even got through all of them that are people like, thank you for sharing this. I was sitting in the office about to go have a DNC. Like, thank you for not for making me feel like I'm not alone.

Right. Nobody talks about this. Like this podcast. So like you're helping so many people process these things. So for me, there's a silver lining in that I have to deal with this. Yeah. And like you said, like I think it's amazing. what you're doing with your platform because a lot of people, what you see a lot online

because obviously assisted fertility is much more popular than it used to be. So you do see, you do see a lot more of it than you used to see. But most of what I've found that you see, which is why I love what you're doing, is people, you know, putting up the baby post, they've just had the baby. And then they're saying, like, what happened in the past. And I get, that's important too. I think that's a really important part of it. But you don't really see that many people who were like in the thick of it. So I think it's, and it can feel very isolating. It can almost feel more isolating if you're going through it and you see the positive post because you're like, all these people are like figuring it out. And why can't I figure it out even though

they had these setbacks? So I think it's amazing how you're doing it. Thank you. But doesn't it also just feel so not fair? Like it's just like why does some and then some people just blink and get pregnant. I have many friends who have had sex quite literally once and gotten pregnant and I'm, and had a baby. And I'm like, how? Yeah. It's always the people to me who were like, you know, we tried earlier than we even wanted a baby because we thought we'd have issues. And then those people have no issues. And it always feels like they're, you know, pregnant on their first try. It will forever blow my mind. I don't understand it. And it's also so hard. And I'm sure you experienced this as well. People ask all the time, are you going to have a baby? Are you going to have a second? What's your, like,

it's no one's business and it's so hard to navigate that living some of your life online. Oh, completely. Yeah. And then I mean, I wonder, because I've I've kind of gotten this too, like one of the drawbacks of sharing, I think, on your personal platform, which is why, you know, I wasn't sure if I wanted to do it was this feeling of like, I don't know if I want these unsolicited DMs when I'm not in the mood for this conversation. Because something, I mean, like you said, like this is the kind of thing where sometimes you're. you really want to talk about it and it feels really good. And sometimes you're like, I just want to like pretend this isn't my issue and go on with the rest of my life and not make this like the thing that defines me. Right. Yeah. I know. And sometimes the DMs are heart wrenching. And you're like, I can't process this for you and also process what I'm going through at the same time. Right. Completely. And then I don't know if you get these also, but I also get a lot of people with like unsolicited advice. And for some reason, those are the most triggering for me. because it, I think to me the biggest

mental challenge is not knowing if I'm doing the right thing. Like, because, you know, there's so many different options. Should I see a different doctor? Should I get another opinion? Should I, you know, do, I'm not sure if you've heard of this, like, this reproductive immunology thing like that you see on the Reddit threads. Like, there's always, or there's always like, because you always get those DMs that from people who are like,

I've had four miscarriages and then I just did this one thing. And now I'm 30 weeks pregnant. I'm like, well, good for you. It's insane. Well, then you're like, oh, I guess I'm doing it wrong then. And those give me the most anxiety personally. It's also just so, it's so different for each of us. Like, your cocktail of what you're on for an egg retrieval is totally different from what I'm on, most likely. Because, like, you have different egg numbers than I do. You might be growing faster than I am. Like, who knows? Like, it's so hard to compare and contrast, like, that part of it. And, like, what works for people on Reddit. Reddit scares me. I never go on the fertility threads. I mean, I love Reddit for other things, but like the fertility Reddit scare me quite a bit. Like, I don't go there. That's, you know, it's just there are too many.

You just have to trust your doctor, I feel like, and listen to them. And I can't listen to someone who thinks they're an expert in this, in another world. Right. No, I think that's a really good point, which is part of the reason I think that I wanted to do this show is to have the full context of people's stories and not like the paragraph where they're saying that they know we're understand all of it. Because I think when you get that limited information, again, you're kind of hit with like this anxiety jolt of like, oh, I should be doing it this way. But when you hear stories like yours, like even hearing the context, I read your, I read your story in your Instagram posts. And I'm like, oh, she seems like a little bit similar to what I have. But then now I'm

hearing like the full thing. And like you said, it's so individualized. Everyone's body is so personal. It's kind of like giving dieting advice on Instagram, which you should also not do. No. Because every, you know, what works for someone is very much catered to their own individual body. And it can be, I'm sure it can be tempting to be like, well, I lost 200 pounds by drinking celery juice. But so you should try that. Like, here's what I recommend. But that's not really that helpful for most people. This episode of Baby Steps is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's almost the end of the year. And this time, while it can be exciting, can also be really stressful. And a lot of people feel a lot of sadness and anxiety about it. And it's not just the stress of finding gifts,

but it's also the stress of seeing your family, of it starting to get cold, a little seasonal depression. But adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings. And therapy for me is always something I go to when I'm feeling anxiety or stress around anything, whether it's the holidays, winter, or just like things that are going on in my life that are not going as I planned. I've been to therapy for over eight years. I've been to therapy for over eight years now and nothing has helped me quite as much as therapy has overcome whatever obstacles come my way. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire

to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Find your bright spot this season with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash baby steps today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-L-P.com slash baby steps. How many rounds have you done? I did one round of IVF and I got very, I got a lot of embryos, but I just can't seem to get them to like stick. So I, and again, this is like, I just heard this from someone at my friends giving dinner. Have you ever done the autoimmune cocktail that you add to the cycle with lobenox? I think that's what it's called Claritin and Mucinex.

I haven't heard, I haven't done the Mucinex thing. I've done like the, for my last cycle, I did aspirin and like a, my dronox. which is like a steroid. And again, it's kind of like they both, so I've done two transfers and they both, I guess they both have technically worked. Like, because the first one I miscarried it eight weeks and the second one was ectopic. So it's like kind of feels like it's a little random almost, but that's good. The Mucinex thing, I feel like that is that like a legit thing or is that a TikTok thing?

I'm never sure. No, it's my, it's my doctor. My doctor told me about it. Oh, really? Like this is what a lot, this works for a lot of people who, might have an autoimmune issue that's not showing up on any test. So if we do another round, we'll try that most likely. But the Lovenox blood thinner thing freaks me out. Oh, is that because of the internal injuries that you can get from you like fall on them or something? Yeah. And like I have a

rough toddler. She like kicks me. Like I'm going to be so bruised. Not intentionally. But like I just, I also, my OB said he didn't want me to try Lovenox. He was like their long term. long-term effects of, I don't know. I haven't done much research on, to be honest. All right. Well, that's something I'm going to write down to ask my doctor about. To zoom out, like, you seem like you have a very good, relaxed perspective on the whole thing. I know partially that comes from already having Poppy. But is there anything you've found, like, while you're going through this that has really just helped you get through it?

Because right now, it sounds like you've been going through this in some way, shape, or form for like six years with a break, grabbing your daughter. But how do you like stay sane? Was there an evolution for you of like getting to a place where you were fine or is it day by day? You know, I feel that's a great question. I it wasn't it started the whole story of when my parents didn't react to my pregnancy news the first time we got pregnant was where it all started from because I realized quite quickly, oh, this isn't a guarantee. Right. So for me, I think the reason I'm able to stay level-headed about the whole situation is because I think about, like, I'm not just singularly focused on my fertility journey. If I was, I would be full-on depressed. But like, for me, I have a really great job. I have an incredible partner. I have all my friends. I have travel. I do have my daughter. But even before I had her, I still had all those other things that filled my bucket on a day.

basis and I do believe, and I know this is so cliche, that like, I just wake up and I choose to be happy. I just choose to think about the other things because I have a really full life outside of the fertility thing. And I do think that if you're like there are so many options in the fertility world, like we'll figure out how to have a second baby eventually or we'll just decide to stop and to just see what happens naturally. Right. I think that's an amazing advice. I think the, I think both parts of it. The first part that I really like is basically what you're saying about expectations. Like if you go into it, I think with these expectations of success or depression, then you're

going to probably like more easily be depressed. Yeah. But if you're going to go into it with the expectation of like, we'll see. I think that is really like the best mindset. And like we're going to give it a shot, but also the best way to be able to do that seems like not having it be 70% of your mind space, which, I mean, for me in the beginning, I think my first, I had a miscarriage before I did IVF. And when that happened, I think it was like 70, 80% of my mindset. And then you're kind of just like putting the pressure on it to feel like it has to happen

immediately or else you will not be happy. And when you go into it like that, I think it makes the entire thing like unmanageable mentally. Yeah. And running a company. Like you can't do all that at the same time, that's too hard. Like, it's too much to think about. So, yes, I feel like you got to, I always tell people, like, when people ask me, like, how did you handle all the miscarriages before Poppy and all that? And I quite literally filled my calendar, whether it was a trip to see friends, a vacation with my husband, dinners, work.

Like, I kept myself so busy. So I had other things that I was focusing on. And this was definitely a partial, you know, brain space, but it wasn't everything. Right. Because again, you seem like kind of relaxed about the idea that you could just have one child. Was there like a moment where you felt like that was an okay option as opposed to? Because I think so much in this fertility stuff is sort of as it relates to those expectations, like you have a story of how things will play out in your mind. Like I'm going to have two or three kids and I'm going to have them naturally. And like, you know, then you realize you have to do IBF. That is like a thing that TVH in the story or you realize you might have just a. one kid that also feels like a deviation. Like how did you, was it tough to come to terms with that? That literally just happened for me last week. Because I had posted that thing on Instagram.

So when we had all of our embryos tested, we came back. We had two good ones that we were going to implant. Both were girls. So I had worked up this story in my mind that I was going to be the mom of two girls, Poppy and one other. Right. And when the first one didn't take, I said, okay, I have another one. I'm still going to be the mom of two girls.

It's like I told myself this story in my brain, which was like maybe naive of me, but like I did. And then when the second one didn't take, I was like, do I want to do this again? Like, do I want to put my body through all these drugs? And I think the answer is, yes, I'm going to put myself through this one more time. Am I going to be someone who does eight retrievals? No. Like that's not my story. I would rather take that money and spend it on putting money into Poppy's college education.

like that's just not what I want to do or or spend my time doing for the next two years going in for appointments and monitoring for eight like I have a friend who quite literally did eight retrievals and I'm like that was your job for two years and she was like yeah I don't work and I was like well that good for you I don't have that luxury but you know when when the second embryo didn't take I just kind of decided in my brain like okay maybe I'm just maybe I'm a mom at just one. And that's amazing. Like, Poppy's perfect and she's so much fun. And that's enough for me. If I blessed to have a second child, incredible. I'm so excited for that. But I'm also so excited just to be Poppy's mom. So like, I'm, it literally happened on the drive up to my sister-in-law's

wedding. I was like, I'm going to be okay with this. I didn't even tell Thomas. I just like, that's another question. Like, how do his feelings like play into all of this? Thomas, I think, would openly admit that he was more sensitive than I was. And being a part of my family and I think being around me for so, we've been married now for 11 years and together for seven years prior to that. He's hardened up a bit. Okay. It's hard for being around my family, learning about the, you know, the statistics behind fertility. You know, he's, he's like, okay, you know, like, yeah, this is not normal how many times we are experiencing this, but it isn't not normal. You know, like this does happen. You know, he processes it, I think, in his own way, but it's still really healthy and he's fine with it.

And if we just have one, he's okay with that too. Right. And I think that's probably one of the most important things that you're sort of a line on how far you'll go because I can see how that would be, I've heard a lot of cases where one person's like seems to want it a lot more than the other. And so there's a mismatch in like the effort and the finances and all that stuff that people are willing to put into it. So being aligned on that, I think, is huge. Huge. Yeah. Also, the finance of it's, it's expensive. Like, there's just, it's crazy how much this cost.

It's, like, I wish I work for myself. So my, what's goppy cooking does not cover this on that health insurance. Yeah. So it's like, maybe I should go work for Google. I feel like, you know, it's just wild how much you have to set aside for this and you, you know, sacrifice other parts of your life to do these journeys. Right. And I mean, there's, I think there's this like weird notion of like whatever it takes, but it's like, uh, like within reason. Right. Yeah, which is such a level-headed way of looking at it, which is not everyone. Like, you seem very level-headed about it. And I don't think that's everyone's. Yeah. I think it's like I'm, you know, especially when I'm having a good day. I feel like for me, it doesn't, it doesn't feel like

a binary thing of like, I'm all in or like, fuck this. It feels a little bit like some days I'm like, yeah, like, great. Like, let's just do it. We'll see what happens. Who cares? And other days, it kind of feels like, you know, your head starts spinning with all the things that the worst case scenarios of everything. But I think what you suggested of like thinking almost like it's almost like aversion shock

therapy is like if you think of the worst thing that could happen and you wrap your head around that. And for you, that seems like you just have one amazing child that's like. That's not the worst thing. Yeah. Right. Yeah, that's not the worst thing in the world. If you have a child or create a family a different way, I think that's also something where it feels really like daunting and scary to even let your mind go there because it feels like you're admitting some sort of like preemptive defeat. But I think if you can wrap your head around, you can be happy with or without the thing. That does seem to be a big key. Yeah. Being happy now, choosing to be happy now. I agree. I mean, prior to having Poppy, we talked about like what if we're just not able to have. children naturally. And we talked about adopting, you know, for us using a surrogate was never an

issue because if I'm miscarrying, it's an egg issue. So like someone else's body is probably going to miscarry it too. But like adopting, amazing. Or if we're just the two of us, Thomas and I, you know, think of what we'll be able to do for travel. We'll be able to go hike with the gorillas in Rwanda without having to worry about, you know, who's babysitting our child. So, you know, obviously that's not what happened, but like we were, we had those conversations prior to getting pregnant. Right. I love that. Thank you so much. This is all this has all been, I think, really helpful. I think your mindset is amazing and it's really inspiring to anyone listening. And, you know, I thank you so much for coming on. I know that I know it's hard to, again, it's hard for a lot of people. I would say most

people that I've spoken to are or are willing to come on and talk about it have had success or like, you know, are done with the whole thing. So I think it is really amazing and inspiring to be able to do it while in the midst of it. I really appreciate it. I'm sure the listeners do as well. There is anything else that you feel like we haven't covered or that you think it'd be like it's important for people to know? I think that I mean, the thing I'm trying to teach people on my channels is to stop asking. Like unless someone like you or me brings it up in a conversation or you're a stranger on the side of the street. Like, you can't just ask people anymore because so many people aren't living it out loud,

like you and I are. And it's hard to, it's hard to hear those questions. Like, think, even if it's your family, if your aunt Sally asks you at Thanksgiving, like no Aunt Sally. I don't want to talk about this unless I'm bringing it up. Like it's not, don't ask. You have no idea what's happening behind closed doors. I just want people to be a little bit more aware of how common fertility issues are.

and to be really gentle with people in your lives that are dealing with this. Like you have, you just don't know unless they're being open about it. Yeah. I think that's amazing advice, especially like for something like fertility where it's like most other things people are a little bit more. I don't know. If you have like another disorder, it's usually not as much of a secret for a lot of people, I think, then this stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

I also think, you know, I've, I've, I got a message last night from someone who has had a couple miscarriages and has never told anyone in her family only her personal. partner knows. And I think that is such a hard story to carry alone. Like, I think if you have someone in your life that you can reach out to besides your partner, besides your doctor, maybe it's your best friend, maybe it's your mom, maybe it's an aunt, maybe it's a mentor. I think that's really healthy to be able to talk about it with someone else. 100%. And I think when you do talk about it with someone, you find out a lot more information because nothing really is as easy or simple and you wrote about this too. I know in your post is a lot of people show you like there's so

many people I've talked to who I found out they had them too just like you know by telling them my own story. And so you find out people like it's like it's a lot more common than you think it is like exactly like you said. Yeah. No one's alone in this journey. It's the shittiest club to be a part of with the best members. Yes. For sure. Okay. So where can people find you? I know obviously like you are a chef. You are on Instagram. You have a book. Like, where is the best place to find all your content? So what's gobbocooking.com is kind of my hub and I'm on all social platforms. My books are everywhere. I talk about fertility the most on Instagram though. So if that's what you're coming for, that's where I am. Check it out. Thank you so much. I love everything you're doing both in and out of

the fertility space. Your recipes are amazing too. So thank you so much. And we'll be back next time on baby steps. Thanks again to our presenting sponsor, BetterHelp. I hope this episode has been a help to you on your path to parenthood. If you want to get started with therapy, I highly recommend trying BetterHelp. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime for no additional charge. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Baby Steps today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Baby Steps. Betches.