Oversharing - Baby Steps: My Journey To Having Two Babies, Twelve Days Apart || Season 3, Episode 9

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

In this Season 3 finale episode of Baby Steps, Jordana comes together with her sister and co-host, Dr. Naomi Bernstein to share a huge update on her infertility journey. Recapping her entire experience up until now, Jordana revisits the many different moments along her journey that have brought disappointment and heartbreak. But she also has some positive things to share with her community that could help bring a little hope to anyone who is struggling to conceive. We don’t want to spoil the surprise so tune in to get all the latest from Jordana herself. Subscribe to Oversharing on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@OversharingPod   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to the season finale of baby steps. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And this is a very special nerve-wracking episode for me because I am going to tell

the story where I left off last time. Yeah, I feel a little nervous, so I'm sure you feel a little nervous, but I'm excited. Let's do it. So where did we leave off? So we left off. The last time I think I gave an update on this show was the very first episode of Baby Steps, which apparently was almost exactly two years ago. I don't want to retell the entire thing over again for stuff that I've already told. So if you want to hear the first part, everything from like January of 2022 until October of 2023, you can listen to the first episode of Baby Steps that ever aired. It was called Introducing Baby Steps. And it aired on October 27th, 2020. All right. So that was like just shy of the first two years of what you were going through. Okay. To give a little summary of that, again,

if you don't care about the full details is at that point, I added two miscarriages, one through IVF, and then I had, I had miscarriage, I did IVF, I had another miscarriage. They discovered a uterine septum. They removed that. And then I did another transfer in the fall, which wound up being an ectopic pregnancy. Fall of 2023, I had gotten two shots of methotrexate. which is like a drug that stops the growth of the baby. And that was resolved, I think, just as we were airing this podcast.

But with that drug, you weren't really able to try again for, I think, three months because it's kind of, it's like a cancer drug. So you're not really supposed to have it in your system when you're like trying to conceive. So they recommend you wait three months. So at that point, I was out for the rest of the year. I'm like, all right, fine. This is a nice little like forced break. Quick question just to interrupt you on the. the ectopic with the IVF, did you ever get kind of an explanation of how if they're implanting

in the uterus, the embryo made its way up into the tube? Did you ever like understand how that? I don't fully know, but I do know that when you watch the video before you do IVF, they make you watch like a whole like educational video on it. You're actually more likely somehow to have an F topic. Okay. with IBF than not. Maybe it moves, maybe because it's like not naturally in there. It can move around in there possibly. It's still very uncommon.

I don't think it's like a common thing, but it is more common in IVF. Like it increases your risk of doing that. I don't really understand how, especially again, I guess somehow it can go back up. Right. Somehow. Yes. So don't fully get that. So I have this ectopic and I've got to wait three months.

And then towards the end of the year in 2023, they want to do another saline sonogram. Basically, they check the uterus before they do any transfer. They do like what it's called a saline sonogram where they put like a dye in and they see like a 3D imaging just to make sure there's nothing that's like grown in there or weird in there or happening in there. So they did that and they discovered some like scar tissue from I guess previous hysteroscopies that I'd had. She was like, we should remove that. And I'm like, well, I've got like the three months to kill. Right. Let's do it.

Whatever. So I did another hysteroscopy. They removed the scars tissue. This was like at the end of 2023. And that's when I think I started to get a little like, because I remember there was like, I had a balloon in there, which basically they put like a, to make sure it heals correctly, they put a balloon in the vagina. And it's like very uncomfortable.

It can come out. And then you have to push it back in. not to be too graphic. Yeah, we're here for it. And this was like Christmas week or something like that. And I remember just being like, this is not how I saw the end of this year going. Like I really like, this is like I'm like getting over it a little bit. There's like end of the year reflecting and you're looking back.

And I'm sure hearing scar tissue is kind of like a scary thing to hear. Which is also annoying because it's like they went in to fix something else. and then it's like, then you're getting another issue from the thing they went in to go fix. Right. So they've gone in a couple times to fix a uterine septum. So now I'm going in for my fourth procedure. It's starting to like cumulatively wear on me. Yeah.

So this was the end of 2023. I start gearing up for another transfer in 2024. I tried to do another one in January, but I apparently had like ovulated. So I had to wait for the next one because I had like that was already by the time they had checked. I think the birth either wobulated through the birth control or something like that happened. We started prepping for another transfer in February. I kept having this issue of like fluid in the uterus, which I had had for the ectopic one before. Okay.

So this is my third transfer now. And I have this like there's like this fluid in there, which they say is not, it kind of can resolve. Like usually when you start the shots, it resolves. but if it doesn't resolve, they can't do it. It's a little bit in limbo. I'm not sure. It's like there's so many things with this, with, with IVF, where it feels like it's like, all right, we're just going to do it.

But there's so many different things that have to go right. And you're like, I have to take these shots to see if then it resolves and maybe it doesn't. And now I have to go through the shots and all that and have it. Right. And it's not great if there's fluid either way. They don't, they say it's not a problem. If it, if it goes away, it's what they say. But I don't know.

I was like very anxious about. this fluid situation. It wound up going away once I did the shots. I still felt a little, like, unsure about it. So I did the transfer, and then when I was supposed to do my blood test, I actually had planned a trip. So I was in the, I was in St. Kitts with Mike. We had planned like a vacation.

And I could have moved it to make sure I was there for this blood test. But at this point, again, I'm starting to get, I'm like, I'm not moving this because I had already, like, moved it to try to, because they had done an extra week of shots because the lining was supposed to get thicker. It's a blood test. It's either positive or negative. It's going to be there when I get back. Like I can't keep changing everything around this situation.

So I went on this trip after I did the transfer and I took a pregnancy test the night before and it looked like it was negative. So I was in my mind. I'm like it's negative. But then the next day on the trip, I took another one. And it was it was a little, slight little positive line. I compare this to my other pregnancy test lines, and it was much lighter than where I had been at the same day post transfer for the first cycle that had like gotten to a clinical pregnancy. This whole trip kind of backfires on me because now I'm spending this entire trip. Like studying the lines.

Taking pregnancy tests, taking pictures in all different kinds of lights and angles and waking up and taking the day one and taking the night one. And I'm like trying to relax. And this idea because and that was why I was like, just hope if it was not going to work that it would just be negative that I would just, you know, because if I'd seen it on the trip and it was not, it was just negative, I could just spend the trip accepting and moving on, but instead it was like this pregnancy test hell of comparing the lines and taking pictures and going back and forth and then Reddit rabbit holes and then, you know, trying to see what other people thought of the line. Did you tell me there's

a thread called line porn? Oh yeah. Anyone in the IVF game knows about line porn. It's a people upload their pictures and then people are like, I see it. Right. You know, I'm in this limbo period this entire time. I decide to eventually I run out of tests, which was great. Great. On the train. I run out of tests in the Caribbean.

I get back. And I got a blood test. And shockingly, she's like, I'm with Dr. Seaghan at the time. And she says, your number is good. Like you're the number, like the line got was getting a little bit darker. and then the blood test number she said was like in the 300s or something, which was like solid. So I was like, wow, like, okay, maybe like it didn't matter that it was a little bit lighter. I'm feeling really, I'd send it to Mike.

He's like, wow, I did not expect that. And then that night I start like bleeding. So I'm like this and you're supposed to go back two days later. So that night I start bleeding and I'm like, all right, this doesn't seem like a great sign. Right. Even though, because that's what I'm saying it's just like a roller coaster. You know, you have the negative and then the positive and then the like, is it getting darker? And then the number is good. And then it's like not good. So I go back two days later and the number is dropped in half. Right. It's at that. And at that point, I think I was like I need, I think I need a break in my in my head. I said, I think I need a break. It's now March of 2024. I'm never going to be as young as I am now. Let me let me just try on my own. Let me try to like get out of this.

game. So I tell her I'm taking a little break. I tried for one month naturally, did not get pregnant. Right. And then I, you know, I, it's almost addictive in some, to me, the hardest thing in any of this stuff, obviously like it's trying to go to the appointments and take the shots and do that stuff. But to me, the hardest was to not do anything. Yes. Like the idea of doing that was harder to me than any cert the idea of any surgery, the idea of any medication. Like I was always like, I'll do, I'll take whatever it takes to get it, but like I'm not going to waste time. Yes. And so I thought like in my head, like the one month of trying naturally was like me giving it a shot. Oh, yeah. And then right. And then or like the deep, you know what I mean? Like the demons kind of come

back to you after that one month of like it's never going to happen naturally. You're just wasting time. Like, like, why, like, like, how long- You were trying to get all spiritual and just, like, let it happen? Like, what are you crazy? Right. And I'm like, you're going to be 35. You know, in your head, like, who's the, like, the voice speaking to you is like, you're going to be 35.

Like, like, why are you taking any time off? I decided to get a second opinion. And I had been, through this podcast, actually, I had been DM'd quite a bit or seen a few anecdotes about reproductive immunology, which is basically, it's kind of like a, I don't want to misspeak, but like from my understanding, again, which I could be off base, is that it's a sort of somewhat experimental or like new wave of of reproductive thought in that like people who have issues like mine where they have multiple transfers that don't work. And they say that that was the other part is that I didn't mention is that they say that like 92% of women will get will have a live birth from three tested embryos. transfers. So this was, to me, this was like a big milestone for me not making it because I was like, okay, this is my third. I'm now, I can't rely on the statistics. I can't be like, well, the statistics

are saying, this is normal. Right. Now I'm in the 8% that like this didn't work for and I've got to do something. And now I need to be, I now I need to reinvent the whole wheel or like do something different, do something out of the box. The idea behind reproductive immunology is that basically like your immune system is like attacking the embryo or creates a situation where it won't let the embryo attach because of like an overactive immune system or problems within your various problems within your immune system. So I'm like, all right, let me try to give this a try. Let me speak to another doctor about who does this. So I find a doctor who does this and I make an appointment for a consult with him.

And he said in our consult, he was like, have you ever considered, has anyone ever told you that you might have endometriosis? And I'm like, no, no one's really mentioned that to me before, but I have no symptoms of, I know, like, I know the symptoms are, which is like painful periods or painful pain during sex. I know, like, you can be asymptomatic, but like, I feel like that's, no one's met. I assume someone would have mentioned that to me. Right.

You've had extensive studies of your uterus, right? Yes. But they can't really tell from. those they can't really tell endometriosis is sort of like living it's like cells outside of the on the outside of the uterus right they can't fully know for sure um unless they really go in there's like a there's like a receptiva test which can give you like a percent chance but he was like I think he's like I think there's like a 90 percent chance you have this but there's like a surgery it's like a lacroscopic surgery they go in through your stomach and they see they look at the cells outside of your

body or outside of your uterus. Right. It's a little more invasive. They're like going in. Right. They can't go up through your vagina. They have to like. Yeah.

Right. Go in through your belly button essentially. Right. So I'm like, all right, let's do it. Like I come back. I'm back. Let's do it. Right.

Yeah. And this is in May. So the, the, the schedules me for the surgery for May. And then he goes in and he says you have, you know, I see stage two or three, two debt slash three endometriosis. So I'm like, great. Maybe this was the. issue the issue. And he thinks it's the issue. But I'm like, everyone always thinks they,

you know, they thought it was the septum before. They thought it was the other PCOS before. Like, I've gotten so many diagnosis that I'm like a little, still a little skeptical. Right. Of that. He says, try naturally for a couple months. If that doesn't work, we'll do another transfer in like the fall. Um, so I tried the summer. Uh, naturally nothing happened. So in my mind, I'm like, okay, I can't, I can't, again, I haven't been trying that long, but I'm like, It's, I tried a couple months without this endometriosis. It's not working. Let me go back to the IVF. So we did a mock cycle, which is where the immunology stuff comes in, where they like test the, they take a biopsy of your uterus. They send it to a lab in France or something and basically comes back. Yeah, very, you know, cultured my, my uterus. And it comes back. They say that it's, I have an overactive immune system and an underactive uterine lining. is what they're telling me.

Okay. And again, not all doctors, like, believe this, but this is like, and I'm in with this doctor. So I'm going pick the path and follow it, right? Let's do it. Right. We talked about that on our show. I'm committing to this. Right.

And this is out of pocket at this point because it's not like insurance isn't pay for this stuff because it's not like there's not been that many studies on it or their studies are inconclusive or, you know, there's anecdotal evidence, but not necessarily some real stuff. So this is like thousands of dollars. to get this biopsy done, do this mock cycle. And then they're like, they come up with a plan based on it. I'm like, okay, well, how bad are these results? She's like, I remember the nurse goes, I've seen worse.

Okay. Well, that's reassuring. Sounds bad. Right. Well, she's like, but with your, you know, with your history, like, it's what you might expect. Okay. So basically, because of this, the results of this thing, they give me all, there's like

this whole extensive protocol for this next transfer they're doing. And now it's like the mock was in September. and then the transfer was going to be in October of last year. And I'm like doing this protocol, which involves a weekly, like, three-hour infusion. It's called like introlipid infusions. Oh, wow. Okay. So it's weekly you go to this place that's a half hour from my house.

You have to sit there for three hours. They put an IV in you and they're like transferring these like fats or something, which are supposed to help with your immune system. They put you on like kidney drugs. They put you on like steroids. Those are all like pills you're taking in addition. to the infusion. In addition to the infusion, in addition to like the several, there's like a lovenox shot.

There's like a Lupron shot, which is like another thing. So you're on. You just give yourself those shots at home. Yes. Right. I'm also on, I do a intrauterine PRP, which is basically where they take blood from your arm and they put it into your, they cycle it, and then they put it into your uterus. Wow.

This is like the kitchen sink. They're just throwing it all. at you. Yes. Are there side effects? The only side effect was like the pain in the ass of like going. The infusions were the worst part because it was like very time considered. Thankfully I have a job that is allows me to make my own schedule in a lot of ways and be flexible.

But I can imagine for everyday person, you know, with a working for a corporation nine to five, this would be like a really especially difficult thing. And it was still very difficult for me. Right. And I'm gearing up to do this, this transfer. I'm doing this every week. Now I'm just kind of like, I don't know how many more of these things I can do.

So like, while I'm undergoing this stuff, I'm like, this is so extensive. This is like, I really am throwing every single thing at this transfer. Like, this must work. And I never want to do this again. I'm like in my head. I never want, I just don't ever want to do this again.

Like, I'm going to do everything they tell me to do, but I don't ever want to do this again. So, and I talked to Mike and I was like, I think we should put in two. Right. I think we should put in two because like it'll increase the transits of one working. I'm doing, I'm already doing all of this work and like we want more than one kid and I feel like, I just don't want to do this again. First, he was like, I don't know about that. Right.

It's like, that seems like a lot. You know, he agreed. We were like, talked to the doctor and the doctor was like usually I really don't recommend that. But the last person I did that with one of them split into two and it was three and it was like a whole high risk thing. And like, and he basically said that like if I put in two with his protocol, I had an 80% chance of one working. and a 40% chance of both of them working. Okay. But he's like, yeah, you're going to, he's like, you're going to have twins if I put it in. But like he's like, because you've had so many issues, like I really normally don't like to do this, but like I'll agree to do it. Right. And I'm like, great. Right.

Yeah. And at this point, again, I'm starting to think about what I would do if it didn't work. I'm trying not to like go there, but I'm also trying to be like, I've now, now I've really thrown every. I put in two embryos. Right. I've done this whole protocol. Like, I don't know what else I could do if this didn't work. So we do the transfer.

And then I decide to test. We moved back into my house on Halloween of last year. And I decided to take the test that night. We're just moved back in. We're like in our brand new. Still kind of a little under construction. But it's happening. And I didn't even tell Mike to take the test because he like is always like, why don't

you wait longer? Why don't you wait like, why don't you wait to us more definitive? Why don't you like, you're going to drive yourself crazy. Like don't do it. But I did it. And it was like pretty good looking positive test. Right. And this is now my sixth positive, fifth, fifth positive pregnancy test.

So I'm like, oh my, like maybe this is it. Maybe we're having like twins. Like maybe this is like a really happening. And we're like, you know, we're excited where you go out, we celebrate. And then then obviously I can't just take one test. I think I sent you this test last year. I was like, I was like, whatever, I think it's happening. It looks good, right.

Yeah. And then the next day I take a test and it, it doesn't look much darker. And I'm starting to get. Yeah, PTSD, probably. That feeling in the back of my head. The next day, I take another test and it doesn't look darker. This is where I was almost like, your gaslighting me because he was like, all I see are multiple positive pregnancy tests.

Right. No, you don't, you're not in line porn. Right. You don't know. Right. You don't know. know which way these are supposed to go. These are not supposed to be slightly lighter than this one.

He's like, it's barely slightly lighter. I'm like, no, it's supposed to be darker. It's supposed to get, like, each day is supposed to be like so clearly darker. Like there's something that doesn't feel right here. Now we're at like a weird position because I'm like, he like is not, you know what I mean? Like I'm kind of in my head a little bit alone about this because I'm like, I know that something is off. But like on the chance that I'm wrong, I don't want to be this annoying person who.

negative, pessimistic, erotic, right. But something doesn't feel right. There's only, there's so much I can do before I go for like the, the beta test, whatever it is. And this was like, I think it was 14 days past the transfer, 12, 12 days past the transfer or something like that. And I go in and the number is 32 and it should be over 200. And if it's twins, it should be like even more much higher than that.

So I'm like, if I've given up the twins, thought, but I'm like, right. Maybe there's one. And, you know, and then I get an email from him. And it's annoying because when they call you, they're like, well, your beta is positive. And I'm like, what's the number? Right. I've done this before. What's the number? Right. And they're like, it's a little on the low side. We're going to give you some progesterone supplements or something like that. We've seen it work out like this before. And I'm like, no, I'm taking the test. The tests are getting lighter. They're not starting low. and getting higher.

They're going the wrong way. Like, he emailed me and he was like, he's like, I think, you know, I've seen, I've seen this work. Like, don't lose hope yet. Blah, blah, blah. It was two days later, it was half the amount that it was before. And at that point, I'm like, I think this is the worst that was like my total bottom there where I was like, I've really, this is my fourth one.

I put into two well-graded embryos that like, I'm like, this is clearly like, my body does not want to do this. Yeah. Were there self-deprecating thoughts there? Like my body's failing or like that whole like it's not, you know, there's something wrong kind of stuff or was it just. Yeah. And the worst thing was just like I don't know what the issue is.

Because if it's, I've tried the everything. Like I did feel like I tried. I'd taken all the supplements and I'd done all the pills and I put. I never, I haven't worked as hard at this as I've worked at anything else in my entire. life. I've been working, you know what I mean? Like I didn't put the amount of effort that I had put into all of it, but specifically this transfer just felt like I was like, how could this not pay off? How could? And it's never, you know, and your thought, I'm just like it's never going to happen. And it's just, I don't know what else I could do. It like kind of feels the end of it. Like this was the thing that was the problem. They figured it out. And now that's right. And now it's going to work. And then when that doesn't work, it's like the road. is right you've run out of road and at this point I'm also like not trusting the medical community which is an annoying thing for me because I'm like he said if I did all this stuff and I followed this protocol and I put into and I like did all this stuff like it would I just don't believe

anything that anyone and I want you know we had a consult with him after that and he was like well I feel like maybe putting in two there was a stronger immune response because of the pudding in two. And I'm like, maybe you should have mentioned that. Yeah. Right. If that's your theory now. He's like, I don't, he's like, there's like, there's no way to know that, but like that could be it. He was like, I think we should try it one more time. And if it doesn't work, like, there's really not much else I can do for you. Oh, that must have been hard to hear. Yeah. Well, he was just basically like, then you're like in the five percent of people where this thing doesn't work. She's like, I think we should try it again with one and I'll tweak the protocol.

We'll start you on the infusions earlier. So I'll have more infusions. You're like, yay. Yay, right. And I'm like, none of this sounds both like promising to me and none of this sounds particularly anything I can like really feel confident fully buying into now. And I feel, I think I felt a very intense sense of hopelessness at that point. And I was really, really depressed probably for like, that's when I found my new therapist,

which was really helpful, I think, in getting through that period. But it was just like a really, really low point. So when I was talking to the doctor about doing parallel pathing, he was like, we should try one more. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to try one more. It's going to be my last one. And I'm working with a therapist at this point. And I go in to start doing the transfer. and there's like

doing the transfer prep and there's fluid in the uterus again. I don't know what to do. And I'm like, I can't stop at this point. I feel like I can't stop. And I'm speaking to my therapist. And she was like, have you ever like heard of anyone in any situation

where they like took a step back and it worked out well for them? Right. And she was like, I think you should give yourself permission to where if it doesn't feel right. Like she's like basically taught me, I think that like these doctors are experts, but you're also an expert. You're an expert in your own body.

You're an expert in what feels right and what feels, it doesn't feel right and what's, you know yourself better than anyone else. So you also should have an equal say in like deciding to cancel a transfer. She's like, and they're not going to cancel it. Like they're not going to cancel it. Yep. But if it, because there's, they've seen cases where it works out.

And so if you want like, she's like, if it doesn't feel right to you, I think you should cancel it. You should not go through with it because clearly something doesn't feel right to you and should give yourself permission to like opt out of something to give up this idea that something could potentially. No one's ever going to tell you that it's not going to work. because it could work, but like it's more about you and your own mental health. Right. Or almost this idea of like I have to, I have to, wherever a little ounce of control that I can over this, I have to take it. I have to do. Like you said, the hardest part about it is doing nothing. Right. So almost the idea of like maybe a fear of doing nothing and like being able to tolerate doing nothing if it's going to be better for you or that's like where your heart is taking you.

Right, to be better for me to like honor everything I've been through to say like, I'm not going to do this. Right. It doesn't feel right. So I canceled that cycle. It was the first cycle I ever canceled because they saw the fluid and then they like, we still think you should do it. And I was like, it doesn't feel right. And I'm only going to, I said it, I'm only doing one more. And so I don't, this one doesn't, I don't want to do it if it doesn't feel right.

I opted out of that two months later. I took a test again. This was natural. It wound up being chemical. you can hear all about that story on the subscription episode from early April. Right. Yeah, which didn't work out. So in my mind, I'm like, okay, my body is not wanting this.

This is not, I feel like, feel more secure in the surrogacy path. Right. And that all these signs are telling me my body can't do this, won't do this, whatever it is. I started to think about surrogacy at that point because I was like, how many times, how many good embryos can I waste on a body that doesn't seem to want them? Right. many times can I physically go through this. And then I spoke to the doctor and he was like, why don't he's like, why don't you like parallel path it? Why don't you like look for a surrogate

and we'll do another transfer and like we'll see what happens. Right. Because the surrogacy process, I'm sure, is long and, you know, something that you might, you could do at the same time. And then I'm thinking about surrogates. And I had had a couple of friends who had like offered, but then like it didn't really work out in that way. And then I had you offer. Which is funny. I think the first time we discussed that was when we did another episode of Baby Steps, probably like a year earlier. And we had Emily Simpson on and she talked about her sister being her surrogate. Right. And we talked about the episode. And then I think after I was like, I think I made a joke about like, what'd you do it? Like a half joke. And you were like, yeah. Yeah. I would.

And you said yes. And so it was like, um, of course, sort of something in the back of my mind as I was thinking about the surrogacy, but also like, you know, given,

given your age, which is, you know, you're not old, but for pregnancy, you're obviously like, it's not, I remember,

I like, when, when I was talking to the doctor about surrogacy, I was like, and my sister was like, willing to do it. And he's like, well,

how old is she? And I was, I think at the time you were 40, 45. And he was like, well, is there anyone else who's willing to do it? Who's next? So he seemed to be like, the signals I was getting from him was that it was like not my best option. Right.

And at that point, I think that would have been really great. We started to look into it. And because I emailed him later and I was like, is this like a no-go or is this just like not your first recommendation? Right. And he's like, it's just like a higher risk pregnancy. and there's a slightly less of a chance of an implantation. So then in my mind, I was like, okay, if I'm going to do the surrogate thing, we should try it, you and me.

But I also think I should go through an agency also. I think I should do both things in that way. It wouldn't be so much pressure on you. Yes. Even if there's like a slightly less of a chance that I wouldn't feel. And then if you, if it did work with both of you and what are the chances that it would work with both of you, you know what I mean? Like we'd already transferred to.

We were open and excited about the idea of having two. And you were so great. You were like, I mean, I'll let you. How did it feel for you when we were looking into this? It was really exciting. And I feel like part of it was we do live far apart. And it felt like, one, the opportunity to be part of giving you a baby that you've been trying to have for so long felt like an honor. And it also felt like a way.

to kind of be connected to my niece or nephew from afar, since we do live far apart. It would be like this automatic, really special little bond. So I was excited and I, you know, I liked being, like a lot of people are like, oh my gosh, that's so nice of you that you would do that. And like, but I, I like being pregnant. Like I didn't never, I was blessed that I never really had like horrific morning sickness or or like. So I was really excited. And I think the idea of having a backup was nice because there probably I can only imagine that if we did it and it didn't work out, that I would feel having to

like make that call if it wasn't working out would have been really hard. So with all the eggs in that in my basket. So I I thought the whole plan was, I was happy with the plan and started moving through it. But it was, from my perspective, being 45, going for all these tests, really wanting to do it. Like I really. Yeah. You really put in, we did a site consult. We did like, you know, you got all the checkups. Yes. Did the site consult, the paperwork, all the record transfers. And this is like old ass records. They dust it off. Yeah. Dusted from an old box in a basement somewhere. So like got. all these old records and sent them over. And now I'm going to these doctors.

And I really wanted to work. And I feel like I really do feel like 30. You know, like I don't feel old. But when you go into the doctor and they're like, like I first went to my OB, my, I mean, my gynecologist and I was like, all right, I just need you to like give me a clearance that it's okay. And she was like, nope, not doing that. I will not be giving you a clearance that this is okay.

So I was like, all right. She wouldn't even see you, right? She wouldn't even like, she didn't even, she was like, nope, not signing off on this. You're too old. I can understand in a state like Texas, though, while why a doctor would be particularly hesitant. If you're not, I don't, are you allowed to even do an abortion if it saves the mother's life? Like, that's the reason why I still use birth control at 46 years old because I'm like, I know I'm not going to like naturally get pregnant, but I could have a. a situation where like I need something handled if it's like a little bit of a pregnancy or like a

you know a exopic pregnancy and I don't even know I do know that it would be it's not easy to get care for those types of things right right so I feel like I could imagine why they're specifically they're like I don't want any involvement in any of this in any kind of high risk situation yes so I went to a specific like high risk doctor I went in and she she made me feel great she was like like, you look great. Everything's great. You know, uterus doesn't age. She's like, and actually, and this was the one that I was like loving, she's like,

getting pregnant after the age of 40, like increases your lifespan. And I was like, all right, let's do it. She was on board. I was on board. So we went through started doing all the requisite tests. I was about to go for the saline sonogram. And then rise. So, I mean, to back up, I guess, a little bit.

Yeah, you were doing all this work. I had also been using an agency and had met with a surrogate that we really liked. And we had moved forward with her. While they're like, you know, I'm spending time trying to do all this extensive how to get pregnant at 45. the rest, the other surrogates like bang, bang. Whizzing through. Well, this was also, yes. Right.

The other surrogate, her name is Haley. She had done, she has, she works for the surrogacy agency. And she had done two previous surrogacy journeys before. So she is like, you know, a real professional. Right. And she's in her 20s. Right. So I think, you know, it was, she was like running.

running through the hoops of surrogacy. And she wound up transferring in May. And Haley and I found each other pretty quickly. She's great. She knows exactly what to do. She's really on top of everything. And she transfers in May. And I remember, like, there being so much riding on this strength.

Because this is, like, this is my top surrogate. No offense. At the moment. she's done it this is her fifth pregnancy she's done this twice before she's um you know she's got the clear super uterus blah blah blah um and i remember feeling like this anxiety that was like beyond anything of like what am i going to do if this doesn't work yeah what am i going to do like this is you know what i mean the last

thing felt like i've thrown everything at it but this was like and i've brought in like a A substitute. You got to the end of the road. You built an extension to the road. You're on the extension to the road and sort of like if this doesn't lead to a baby, then. Then I'm like, fucked is my, was my mindset. She's like, I'll test whenever you want me to test. Like, you let me know.

And I'm like, I'm not really like a test immediate, like start testing two days after kind of person. Like I get very anxious about these things. And also in my head, I'm like, up. positive test doesn't mean that much to me because I've had so many of them before. Yep. But she does the test. Wait, I feel like I'm ready. I text her.

She takes the test. She sends it. And then she's like, I don't want to look, you look. And I'm like, you look. This is like 14 days. 14 days? No, this is like, this is like a week after, which is like when you can kind of know for sure.

A little. Right. Okay. But like, and she's like, you look. I can't look. She's like, no, I think you should look. I think you should look. And we're on FaceTime.

Okay. So she, like, she has the test under a towel. And then she, like, takes it out. And she shows it to me on FaceTime. And I'm like, this looks negative to me. I was like, oh, like, I don't think it worked. And then she looks at it and gets through FaceTime. She's like, no, no, no, no.

She's like, it's positive. Like, I see it. It's positive. And it's like light. Am I here again? Like, I'm like, okay. Like, and she's excited because she's, you know, every. She hasn't been through what you've been through.

Right. And she's like, no, it's positive. Like, it's great. blah, la. And I'm like, I was like, it seems like a little light, like, we can test again in a couple days and like, see, but like, I, you know, it's hard to feel great about it. Right. She was like, okay. And then that night I'm like mourning this pregnancy. I'm like in my head, it's like, I'm not going to like, I'm not going to think that it's working again when like I know every other time has shown me that this is not. And I'd like delete Instagram. I like get rid of everything.

I'm just feeling very bad. But then the next morning, she's like, hey, I know we said we would wait 48 hours, but like I felt like I couldn't wait. And so she sends me the test and it's like it's much darker than the first one. Yes. So I'm like, okay. Like this feels, I don't feel like safe yet,

but I feel like better. This is the first time you've really seen it progressing. darker since the original. Since the original two that had gotten to like seven weeks. I hadn't gotten to seven weeks in like two years at this point. And then the next day she sends me another one and it's darker than the last one. The next day the same thing. And then she goes in for the blood test and the blood test looks good. And I'm like and then it doubles the two days later and I'm feeling like, okay, like maybe this is. possible like thing. Like this is, you know, and she's like so positive and it's nice

because she doesn't have, you know, she's like, it's going to be great, blah, blah, blah. Like I'm like so excited. I see this rainbow in the sky. Like very like,

just very sweet. Yeah. Really nice, really positive. But then she's about six weeks. She calls me on a Sunday afternoon. I'll back up because this is Memorial Day weekend now. This is before,

right before Memorial Day weekend. And I went to the dermatologist. And, she was like, your skin looks really bad. She goes, what's going on? Wow. And I'm like, I don't know, maybe it's the dog trying to lick my face. Like, because, you know, I see Dr. Jamie Glick.

She's great, but she's also very blunt. And she's like, something's weird with, like, I don't know what's going on. We've done a lot here. And like, she's like writing me all these prescriptions for stuff. And I go home that and I'm supposed to go to dinner that we, that. a couple nights later with like my friends and we're supposed to have drinks and like let me just take a test. I also had a chemical in March. Okay. Then you, I talked about, I talked about on this, on this podcast. Oh, right, right, right. They were like, it's positive. And you had already known

that it was like not going to work and you wanted to strangle somebody in the office. Yes. This was happening. This happened in March when I decided to take the break and pursue surrogacy. Right. So this was like a couple months. before that. In May, a couple weeks after Haley gets her positive, I have this discussion with the dermatologist and I go home a couple days later and I test and it's still kind of early, but it looks positive. And I show it and we're about to go for drinks and dinner with like some friends. So I show it to Mike and I basically show it to him being like, it's positive. I'm still going to have a couple drinks. I want to be, I want to have like full disclosure.

with you. Right. Because we all know how this goes and like I can't keep letting this. And I at this point, I had like resolved. I had like stopped taking the prenatals. I had started. I'd gone back on my retinoles. I had like, I'm taking my body back. I'm taking my body back in my mind. And I'm like, I got this test. This is now my sixth positive. This is my seventh positive test at this point because I had the chemical a couple months ago. I'm like, it's my seventh positive test. Like, I am not changing my whole life around this test. I'll keep testing in a couple of days. I'm going to have a drink tonight. It's not going to be a big deal. And he was also like, yeah, okay, it's probably not going to work. Sure. Like, let's go. Let's go out. Like, but I think we're both like, it's like, it's like, it's like, you really are

over it. Yeah. Yeah. You are really robbed of any moment of like, you know, you see those Instagram videos of like, and you see the test and we're all like, you know, we're so excited. Like we had that the first time. But I think at this point, we were like, yeah, right. Like, this means nothing. This doesn't mean much. But like, it's nice. That's nice. Like, it's kind of like, that's nice. I guess. So at this point, I'm pregnant. Surrogate's pregnant. And then this was really scary. At six weeks on, I remember being June, for some reason, I remember being June 1st because I was like, this is the word, like, going to ruin the whole summer. she calls me on

Haley calls me on a Sunday evening and she usually doesn't call we're usually texting so I'm like a little and it's a Sunday so she calls me in a Sunday and she's like hysterically crying and she's like I'm at the emergency room they told me I'm miscarrying

and I'm like used to this she was like she was like I almost felt like she was so devastated and I was like almost like I knew this was going to happen or something like that in my head where I was like almost couldn't get to that. I think you were the only person I told that night where and Mike and I are like mourning this thing. We're like so upset. It's also so expensive. Just to get to that place. It's like not even just the loss. It's the right. And then also that feeling of like what am I going

to do now? What am I? I'm also, but I'm also, but I also don't think it's going to work. So I'm like, I've got like 700 things going on. But I'm like, one of these things had to work. Like, there's got to be something here. Yeah. So she basically told me that she's been scaring. She told me the doctor told her that the placenta was detaching from the uterus and that the heartbeat was like only 84. And she's six weeks.

So it should be higher? So we're like discussing like should she get a DNC? Should she take the pill? How should she get rid of this? What's our next steps? Like this is like the night. She's like, we don't have to talk about this now. But like what do we want to do?

And I'm like, well, this is for my experience with all my miscarriages. like this is what this are the pros of cons of this and that and we'll try again blah blah blah blah and then she has a scheduled scan the next day um is after the emergency room and she's like should I go to this scan like I don't know like I don't want to tell you what to do like what do you think and she's like I'll do whatever you want me to do I'm like why don't you go to the scan so that we can send it to the doctor because like they'll get a real look at a better sense once they see the pictures because they didn't give you any pictures in the emergency room, like what to do and what we're working with here and what's happening.

So she's like, all right, I'm going to go. So she goes and she FaceTimes us into this appointment and I'm like ready to, you know, close the book on it. And the sonographer is like, everything looks great. She's like, there's the baby, like heartbeat of like 140 something. Oh, my God. I'm like, what is going on here? Like, I've already like mourned the death of this baby.

Like, I don't really understand. Crazy. And I'm like, is this, this doesn't feel real. Like, I don't know which way, where my, where to put. And I had gotten, we gotten an email from the agency, surrogacy agency with like condolences was like the headline. And so I'm like, I'm, you know, I put, all signs have been pointing to this isn't working. And the sonographers, like, you have a subcontractors. like you have a sub-curionic hematoma, which happens in, like, a 25% of IVF pregnancies.

We always tell people not to worry about that. And I'm like, well, what about the heart beat? Like placenta and the heartbeat. And they're like, you can't see the placenta at this stage. Right. The urgent care doctor probably miss, like, thought that the sub-corionic hematomotone. was like the placenta, which is crazy. Like if you don't know what you're talking about,

just say, you need to go to your OB. Doctor, right. Yeah, no, apparently did not say that. And then I had been texting Dr. Segan, who I'd been speaking to,

because thinking about going back there because I just felt like the, the surrogate protocol was like a little too intense. So I was talking about having her go back to you for your transfer. Right. And she was like, I've seen this happen before. I think that the doctor measured her heart rate and said it was like the baby's heart rate.

Oh my gosh. So I'm like, okay, baby's alive for now. But like I've had subchoreonic chematomas before, which they said we're going to be fine. And then like the week later they weren't. Right. Or the baby was not a fine. So I'm kind of like, all right, I guess I'm still in it. But like I very much don't trust it.

Yes. I'm like now have like traumatic experience with this and it just feels very, very fragile. Yes. But I'm also pregnant. Oh, my gosh. The rollercoaster of emotions. And I'm like four weeks pregnant at this point, like barely pregnant. So this one, again, and I have no faith in mine either.

So I'm like, am I going to be the first person to have two miscarriages in one week? Am I going to get a medal? for this situation because it all just felt very, very precarious. But then after that, you know, the next week the baby was growing, I got a scan. It looked, it was like,

it was in there. And then the next week, it was also fine. And then like, here we are. We're at 25 and 27 weeks. we are due, me and Haley are due 12 days apart. I, you know, I, telling you about, you know, you were gearing up to do a transfer for me. We like had, we're getting everything aligned. And I remember telling you and I was like, just so you know, like, I'm pregnant, but like, we'll see.

Probably. Yeah. Yeah. If it, you know, maybe I don't know if we want three, but like that probably won't happen. So like, let's just give it another month and see if I miss Gary. Right. Literally. It was like basically the messaging behind.

my pregnancy. Every week was just like a shock that it was, things looked good. I like did not believe it. Yep. I still really almost don't believe it. It's very, um, it's very hard to feel safe. Yeah. And still. I'm sure.

Yeah. I mean, even as like I'm, both of us are like entering the third, like a couple weeks away from the third trimester, it still feels like, it feels much better than it did obviously those first two months. two, three months, but it still feels like I can't trust it until they're like in my arms. But it is crazy to be having two babies due 12 days apart. That's crazy.

I mean, they could theoretically be born on like the same day, which would be crazy. Yeah, they're real twins. I mean, I know this story and I've heard this story, but I just still, when I see where we are now, like my heart is so full. And I just am so excited. So currently now we were just started talking about this. You are feeling some movement and like how, how is that? That's the first time that you've experienced that, obviously.

It's been really cool. It's been really, it's interesting because I've never, you know, when I decided to do surrogacy, I sort of like, accepted that I wasn't going to get that experience. And then to be able to get it side by side with with Haley has been really cool. It's very interesting to see the difference in the way that I feel that like I'm like the relationship I have with both pregnancies or like anxiety levels that I have with both pregnancies. Like it's weird. I mean, it's not weird, I guess, but I am able to trust.

she's done it. This is her fifth pregnancy, and she's done it so many times before that I do feel like, I feel so, I feel like she's got everything under control. Like I relinquent, and I'm not going to like text her every five seconds being like, did you feel,

did you move to yet or whatever? But with mine, I do have a much more heightened sense of anxiety. I do have a much more heightened sense of distrust. I think I'm working, I'm working a lot on trusting my body. And I didn't think, you know what I mean?

Like all signs, it felt like all signs were telling me. And this one was not, you know, unassisted, no IVF, no medical interventions. This was a totally natural pregnancy. But after being told for so many years that I had all these problems, it's been very hard to have a relationship with my body where I'm like, oh, yeah, like, you've got like, you're doing what you're supposed to do. like totally it's just hard like you hear you know what i mean i feel like i've been hearing someone

talk shit about this yes yes yes and she's doing everything right and i can't like trust her in the same way that i trust um haley yeah totally so what do you how does that what does that look like on a daily basis for you like what does that look like i wake up i feel the baby i don't feel the baby. I have a scan scheduled. How do you get through the days? First trimester was really, really hard. It's like a lot of, it was a lot of constant checking, you know. Right. And you didn't have morning sickness. So that's kind of like a blessing, but also it doesn't give you the feeling that you're pregnant. Yeah, I was dying for like more signs of pregnancy. And all I really got them at the doctor when they would look and say everything looked good, but it was very difficult.

I would constantly be checking every time I went to the bathroom to see if there was blood, to see if there was anything there. And it was just like every, it's very hard to, again, trust my body, trust that like any little feeling that I feel like is off. I'm like, you know, you go down a Google spiral. And I did at 15 weeks decide to see a psychiatrist. and I went and I'm on a pretty low dose of Zoloft to help me with a lot of that anxiety. And that's helped.

Yeah. I think it hasn't been that long that I've been on it, but it's definitely helped. And I think that like I'd like to normalize that. And the way that that was pitched to me was like this feeling, this constant feeling of anxiety and stress is like worse for your baby than any like small and temper and temper. very effects of this medication. I know we had Becca Tobin on who was also talking about that. Right. And yeah, it's definitely been helpful, but it is hard. Like I feel the, like, it's nice when you feel the baby kick, it feels amazing. It's like the best feeling in the world, but then it becomes

like an addiction. Yes. And then it becomes like, well, why isn't anytime the baby isn't kicking, when's the next time? You know, it's almost like like a guy who's like got, you're dating a guy I text you. You're like, oh, my God, I got the text. But then it's like, well, when's the next text coming? When's the next date coming? The countdown starts happening after the kick of like, I need to have that. I need to get that reassurance again.

Right. And I can only wait so long before I start to freak out. Yeah, I remember. And I had like, you know, did nothing like what you went through with my pregnancies. But I remember by the time I was in my third pregnancy, I went on, not that I think you should do this, but like I went on. Amazon, I got one of those little sonogram things where you can the Doppler, whatever. Yeah. It was like 50 bucks or something. You could hear the heartbeat whenever you want to.

I thought about that, but then I was like, I don't recommend it. I was like, I think that this will drive me crazy. Yeah. I told I don't recommend it, but I'm so I wouldn't do it, but I'm saying I and I probably did it because I wasn't quite as like traumatized or it wasn't nearly as traumatized as you. So I'm like, oh, this will be fun. Twice a day. Right. Like I'll hear it. It'll be fun. It's like a little thing to do to just kind of reassure myself. But given that you're craving all that reassurance all the time, I definitely wouldn't recommend it for you.

I think it will make you crazy. Yeah. I think I'm going to pass on that. But even like the sconna sonograms, you go in, everything looks good. And that you feel, I feel amazing for a few hours after. And then I'm like, and then it starts that doubt starts to creep in. Well, what about now? Right.

You know, it's, it's very hard to just release control and trust and feel safe after this experience. Yeah. But I will say it's taught me a lot. I'm not glad I've had it, but I do feel like my relationship has grown in a lot of ways. I've grown as a person, a lot of ways I'm much less tied to timelines than as I used to be. I think I have a real perspective. and I have a real appreciation for everything that goes into this. One more question.

I know we've been talking for a while, but as far as your relationship, what do you think, you say you've learned a lot or you've grown a lot? Like, how do you think this has strengthened the relationship for you and Mike? If everything's good, you don't really get to see what someone's like when it's not good. Or you don't even know necessarily what you need if it wasn't good.

So I think that was alert. I mean, it wasn't like immediately like we both knew exactly. what to give each other when going through this kind of thing. And I think it was a lot of therapy helped. I think it was a lot of figuring out like what I need and even what he needs and like how to be there for each other in this way, which I think will help us in a lot of other. Sir, this is not the last obstacle we're going to face in marriage or in life.

So yeah, definitely I think brought us closer and that it in strengthen our communication, strengthen having to like ask, vocalize what you need because you kind of assume you know and people assume people that you want to be there for them in the way that that you would be there for someone, but that's sometimes not what someone wants or needs. Yeah. And it's interesting because we talk sometimes about the wedding and how the wedding like, you know, brings up all these difficult conversations and this is probably that times. a million because you're talking about this like existential craving to be a parent that you're both

afraid at the same time that you're not going to get to feel and get to experience. And I always say the hardest thing for couples is when you're both kind of drowning at the same time and you're both reaching for each other to be each other's life preserver. Those are the most challenging moments for any relationship. So I could only assume that going through something like this is, you know, I could see how it could make you just so much closer and so much stronger and realizing like, okay, we could make it through that, you know, like we, it just the same way that you don't trust your body in some ways and you're in this moment of not trusting your body. Like I'm hoping that you can trust in this relationship, you know, like, down the line, whatever happens, you're feeling disconnected or you have two babies at the same time and you're not having, you know, you're just kind of like, we'll get through it.

Like we've gotten through some really hard stuff. And right now it doesn't feel good, but like I trust in this relationship and how we can handle these things. So I do think there's a silver lining to going through stuff together as a couple. Totally. And I mean, the fertility stuff, I think like so many people go through this. And it's been really nice to be able to like normalize that with baby steps with the show. And there's so many different paths people take to get to the same place. And I think this has also taught me like, you know, I think I was definitely preoccupied with doing things in the right order at the right time and the way that felt like what everyone else was doing and having, you know, babies by this age. and doing it at that time with these people.

And I think that the longer this has been, the more I'm like, none of that stuff really matters as long as you get there. Totally. Yeah. Totally. And I keep, and I was, I've been doing this the whole time and I keep,

I still do it like all the time, especially when I was thinking of being a surrogate. And there were moments when I was afraid of like, you know, God forbid something happens to me. And I have my kids. And I just kept thinking about like you holding a baby and like just the joy and the love and how loved that baby. And now babies are going to be like it just fills my heart so much.

And you're going to be the best mom. And I can't wait to get my hands on those little babies. Like I just keep visualizing you guys. your babies and I'm just so excited for you. And it's, I'm really, I think it's incredible that you shared this story with everyone. And, you know, and it does give people hope that, again, it's not going to happen the way you want it, the time you want it. And you might have to go through some stuff. But I'm really happy for you that you got there. Almost, almost. Yes. Almost. Sorry. And I hate doing that.

But it's like a tick in the back of my. I get it. I get it. Superstitious and you're cautious. And you've been through so much. So you have the right to like do whatever you, whatever mental tricks you need to do to make yourself feel better about it. But I'm glad.

And it must feel nice at least that you're in that stage where you can feel something. Yes. For sure. And I, you know, and I love you. And thank you so much for offering. to do this and really, really going through with like, you really, you know, a lot of, like, few people offered, but you were really going to do it. I was really going to do it.

You were really going to do it. And that really means so much to me. And I don't think, you know, I'll net something I'll never forget. So if you ever need a kidney, you just, you text me. I'll call you right up. No, I really, like, I, I just want this for you so badly. I think you're going to be an amazing mom. Like I said, I see it.

Like I almost, for some reason, I just like more than a lot of other things that I've wanted for people in life and wanted for myself. Like I keep just seeing it in my in my mind for you. So I can't wait to be there and to, you know, and I'm going to see you in a couple weeks. So I'm going to get to kind of the first time, I think, since you've been pregnant. to be able to see that. And yeah. And Haley too. And I'm just,

I'm so excited for you guys. What a beautiful little family. Can't wait to come. We will take all the babies, take care of them, give you guys a night on the town. Love it. Can't wait.

Yes. All right. So excited for you. Thanks for sharing your story. You're really amazing. You're incredible. Like the vulnerability that you've shown and how much you've normalized this for people and opened up the dialogue.

I'm so. honored to be a part of it. Thank you. I'm sorry if there was too much detail or if you wanted more detail. I don't know what the right detail is, but thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you for listening to this whole season. I know I've gotten so more DMs about this series than anything else. I know it really helps a lot of people feel less alone and hear other people's stories and get inspired by their strength and their success and the way they handle things. So thanks for listening to this season of Baby Steps. And I think we'll be back.

Betches