Oversharing - Baby Steps: What I Wish I Knew Before with Maria Del Russo || Season 3 Ep. 2

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

We’re getting personal this episode, and Jordana & Dr. Naomi are together in the studio to chat with special guest and Senior Director of Branded Content at Betches, Maria Del Russo. Maria, currently in the midst of her conception journey, opens up about the many things she has learned not just about fertility, but her body. The hosts dive in with questions around not just the medical, but also the holistic approaches that Maria is taking to help her (hopefully) conceive naturally. Whether you're just thinking about trying, actively trying, or navigating unexpected hurdles, this episode will arm you with helpful information and shed light on the often avoided subject of fertility.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Baby Steps. I'm Jordana Abraham and I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. And today we are joined by Maria Del Russo, Betch's very own senior director of branded content. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I know you have a substack where you share a lot, but I'm excited to like get, again, I keep saying excited. It's always the wrong word. I'm, you know, looking forward to, like, you know, getting into like the real details here on the show because I think your story will resonate with a lot of people. Yeah. I'm looking forward to having the conversation and being here. Why don't we start just tell us, like, when you first thought about having kids, like, when you first thought about having kids,

Like, just like take us to the beginning of like your, your whole thought around parenthood. I kind of always knew I wanted to have kids. It was actually funny. I ended a relationship before I met my husband because we had, you know, differing views on whether or not we would start a family. That was kind of like the final nail in the coffin. It was something that was really important to me. But I was very career focused early on in my 20s. I'm 35 now.

And so I ended that relationship around 31. And I met my husband around the time I was turning 32. And we knew right away that we wanted to have kids that, you know, we wanted to get together. We moved in together after like five months. It was something that was kind of always on the table. But I was always very anxious about like it happening too soon. I don't know why looking back on that now with everything that's going on. It always goes that way.

I think that I spent like my whole 20s being very. afraid of like getting unexpectedly pregnant, you know, I was single for a really long time. I was a sex and relationships writer. I had a dating column. Like I was kind of like in the mix there. And so like a pregnancy would have really derailed that. Um, and even after we got married, I was like, I kind of want us to just like wait six months before we really start trying. And when did you get married? We got married in June of last year. So we've been married for a little over a year now. So we kind of said, you know, we had like our honeymoon that we delayed a little bit. We were going to Paris over between Christmas and New Year's.

And I was like, I want to enjoy our time as a married couple. Let's wait. So we said like we could start trying in Paris, romantic, you know, to get it going. And it didn't happen the first month, which, you know, is normal, I guess. And which surprisingly, I kind of thought that I would get pregnant. very quickly, you know. I've written about this in the past, but I feel like, especially as, you know, a young woman, I was raised Catholic, like, sex is, like, it's drilled into your mind that, like, you know, that mean girls thing of, like, don't have sex because you will get pregnant

and die. So I was like, obviously the second we start, like, it's just going to happen. I had multiple friends who were of, you know, advanced maternal age who got pregnant, fairly quickly. Well, I feel like it's the kind of thing where it's like they say there's like a 15% chance on every any given month. But I feel like people either get pregnant the first month or it takes them forever. Yeah. It's never like, oh, the average of like three months or whatever. It's never. It seems like it's immediately or like never. I related it, in a newsletter to kind of how they talk about dating apps too. It's like you either like join Tinder and meet someone immediately or like you're on Tinder for you.

before you actually meet someone. And I feel like getting pregnant is very much the same way. Totally agree. And so, you know, we were trying. And after we got back from France, I noticed that my cycles were a little irregular, but I didn't really think too much about it because, you know, we were newly married.

We were looking for a house. There was like a lot of stress going on. And like I've had variable cycles in the past. And were you like on birth control before you were started trying? No. So I've had. issues with birth control my whole life. I actually had not been on birth control for like two years. And before that I was like on the mini pill. I like I get migraine with aura. So like estrogen,

anything of that type of stuff. It was never going to be like I couldn't take that type of medication. Okay. So it wasn't like you were just seeing your cycles. No, no, no. Like I had been off birth control. But did you have regular cycles before? Yeah, for the most part. They were usually on the shorter side. I was keeping track of them because I was so afraid of getting pregnant unexpectedly. Right. And I was tracking my cycles pretty frequently. And like something in my head one month was like, maybe you should go to the doctor. Like it was just kind of like I felt it in my gut that, you know, we're trying to get pregnant. Maybe I should just get my hormones.

And how many months in after trying? Probably only like two. Okay. I want to say. Like we got back from France like early January and I went into my OB in like early February. So like a month. And you were timing it. Like you were timing it.

Yeah. I had, you know, the pregnancy tracking or the period tracking. apps on my phone and I went into my doctor and you know blood test you know the old like transvaginal ultrasound whole nine and the result I was actually here in the office when I got the results back that my fsH was high which is the follicle stimulating hormone which I know this now because I've been going through all of this that's the hormone that you know your body cut your brain kind of sentence to start stimulating your ovaries to like start producing follicles that will produce an egg and all that stuff. It was high. And what does that mean when it's high?

Basically what they were saying is that it could point to inactivity in my ovaries. It's kind of like the baseline of that hormone was not stimulating my ovaries to produce enough follicles and my body registered that. So it was like sending more than it needed to in order to try and like jumpstart my ovaries basically. It's kind of like trying to like start a car in. And so it was like sending. And so it was like sending It's kind of like trying to like start a car engine and you're really, really revving it because the, you know, the engine's not turning over. So it's like trying. Yeah. Like my body was really trying to kind of do that.

And is it supposed to be like in a medium range or it's supposed to be low? It's supposed to be low, actually. So if I remember correctly, the range for someone who's about my age was supposed to be around like two to ten. And mine was 28 when I did my Googling, which I would recommend nobody to, was like premenopausal. And so my doctor was like, I recommend you go to an RE, a reproductive endocrinologist. And it took me like a month to be able to get an appointment, which was like the longest month of my entire life. And this level doesn't fluctuate. It's supposed to stay.

Did they retest you at any point? Yeah. So it actually like fluctuates throughout your cycle. So, and I've actually successfully, through like, things that I've done been able to lower my FSH over time. But it does go up and down from cycle to cycle. When I went into the RE, he said, you know, before even like taking a look at anything, he's like, it sounds like you have premature ovarian insufficiency, which they also call premature ovarian failure, which is basically like your ovaries start.

It's not premenopause, but your ovaries are not behaving the way that they're supposed to for your age, which was like a devastating diagnosis. I really never thought that, you know, this would be the scenario that I found myself in. Like I said, I was a sex and relationships writer before I got into branded content. And through all of that when I was a freelancer, I reported a lot on pregnancy. I would, you know, I worked for medical companies and did like that type of writing and stuff like that. So I knew a lot about female reproduction. I like more than most people likely would.

And this was the first time I had ever heard of this. Right. Which was incredibly disempowering. And what is like, what are they telling you that this means for you, how, you know, being able to conceive? They said what it basically meant is because I was producing lower, like follicle numbers, I think that you're supposed to produce like around a dozen follicles every month. And I was only producing like one to two.

It actually turned out I would later find through, you know, ultrasounds that my left ovary was not producing any follicles. I actually have what Miranda had and sex in the city when she has a lazy ovary. I literally had a lazy ovary. Her was the right though. Mine was the left. And so it just wasn't producing an egg. I was still ovulating every month. Like I'm luckily still getting a period every month, which my doctor has said ups my chances quite you know, a bit. But because I'm not producing that many follicles, because I also got my AMH, which is your egg count number back and it was low, it was 0.06.

And they basically were like conceiving on your own, you know, might be more difficult. And I remember he said, you know, you might want to explore donor eggs. And that I like blacked out when he said that to me. you know, I was just like, I like lost my mind. I could not, you know, and I, like, Miranda had a baby. Yeah, I was like, she had a baby and he had one ball. And I think, you know, I should be able to work something out here. Yeah.

Oh, that's a hard. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of the times they're like throwing out these things just like kind of like, and here's another option. You're like, oh my God, I'm like at that point. Yeah. That's exactly what happened. It was just like bang, bang, bang, like every, like it was just all hitting me so quickly.

And a funny thing I've written about was they took me into the office to have the My husband was with me, thank God, to have the conversation with the doctor. And then they took me into the room to take my vitals. And my blood pressure was like crazy through the room. And they were like, we can't let you leave until your blood pressure comes down. And I was like, you've just told me some of the worst. I know. Maybe we should do this first before you tell me the worst news I could have heard today.

Because I don't know if you've dealt with eyes. I walked in there not expecting any bad news. I thought that he was going to look at my chart and be like, what are you doing here? You've not been trying that long. Like come see you in six months. You just want the medical assurance that it's fine. It's in your head and you're over-analysis. Yeah.

But that was not what happened. Right. You know, that kind of started us on our journey of, you know, cycle tracking. Because my FSH is so high, IVF is not something. that's really available to us. It's not that we can't do it. It's just that the outcomes are not that much higher than just tracking my cycle normally. Like as in they won't be able to get as many eggs if you were to do an egg retrieval.

Yeah, because the way that IVF works in layman's terms is they basically, the medicine that they inject you with raises that FSA level. And since mine's already so high, they probably can't stimulate it much higher, which means that if I'm only producing two follicles with a high FSAH count, like, there's not a chance that they can, like, raise it much higher and get more follicles out there. So, can I ask you a question? Let's say you're still producing from your left, we forgot which one. For my right.

You're right. From your right, like two eggs a month. Yeah. Don't they only drop really one egg anyway? Yeah. Like, why does it matter? I don't really understand why it matters if you have more eggs in there to drop if only one's going to drop anyway.

That's kind of been my whole thing, too. and I have recently moved, so I am, like, getting second opinions from new doctors and stuff like that. I'm kind of in that transitionary phase right now. I think that what their whole thing is, is like, IVF is a lot of money. You know, we may get you to the point where, like, you're coming in here and you're spending all this money to only drop two eggs that, you know, you know this about IVF. That it's like, you may, they may extract two eggs for me, but the chances that those eggs are actually viable, that they get to the embryo stage. Like, we could go through all of this

not to have anything at the end of it. More for, like, when you're trying normally. Oh, yeah. Like, why is it, like, are you still ovulating from the left? Yeah, I'm still ovulating from the right. And actually, for the past two months, I have ovulated from my left. I've gotten that baby back online somehow.

Oh, how do they know? They can tell when they're doing the ultrasound. They can see where the follicles are developing. Yeah, they're able to, like, take of you, like, a guided tour of your uterus. And they're like, here's your right over you. Here's her left. Yeah.

Exactly. So when they're telling you you're not ovulating from the left, like it could just be like that one month. Yeah. It was just like taking an extended vacation. It looks like that ovary. I don't know if it was stress related or what, but they still qualify me as having this POI because I'm just under producing follicles at this point. Some of that does have to do with the fact that I am 35, you know, that type of stuff starts to slow down. I also do have like a very low.

egg reserve, although my acupuncturist has said like that fluctuate. It can fluctuate that, you know, so. And it doesn't tell you about the quality of those eggs that are there. It just tells you like the amount compared to other people your age, but like those could be just as good if not better than other people your age. And that's really become my focus is like how do we get like the freshest, best quality eggs out of here? Like that's, you know, since that's really the only thing I can, if you can.

if you can control it. You know, there's jury's still out. Some people say you can. Some people say you can't. But I, you know, I'm trying to do everything I can to get the freshest eggs. So how many months total now have you haven't done anything other than just trying? Last month I was able to take Clomid for the first time, which is like it's kind of, it like basically gets you to super ovulate. It's a similar medicine to what you would take if you were doing IVF.

except it's only, you know, it's a pill and then you take one trigger shot to ovulate. That was because my FSAH was 10 for the first time since I started this whole process, which I credit to like a lot of different factors. And so that was, that's like the only intervention that I have taken so far. My husband and I are kind of in like a weird off month right now because we are changing doctors right now. So like I'm kind of in like a free for all month. It's the first non-tracked cycle I've had for six months at this point.

To answer your question, it's been about six months, six months, seven months that we've been doing this. But the Clomid thing was a trip. We were talking about this before we started recording, but, like, I've not been on birth control. Like, you know, I, you know, hormones have never been a good thing for me. And I went, like, absolutely nutty cuckoo bananas on Clomid. I think that they talk about, they call them the Clomid crazies. Because the amount of hormones that you're putting into your body, you just go, like, Absolutely not.

Which is what just like sensitive, emotional. I felt like incredibly depressed. Like I was really down and like I, it's a weird feeling because you know like you're like this is synthetic. I'm aware of the fact that like I have hormones in my body and this is like driving me insane. But like the feeling is still very real. And so trying to weigh that and trying to be very kind to myself during that time was like incredibly difficult because I'm like, nothing is actually different or wrong right now, but it feels horrible. And trying to explain that to my husband, too, who, like, is just trying to make things better

and, you know, feels so powerless in all this. He has no. Right. Besides just being down to do it when you tell them to. Exactly. I'm like, you ready? Like. So how long were you having that depressive feeling?

It would probably lasted about five days, I would say. In, like, varying degrees. I would say the, like, peak of. it was probably about 48 hours where it was just feeling super down luckily it was over the weekend so i was just like able to sit in bed and you know yeah right watch reruns and so it actually is interesting like to take that experience through your life to kind of when you have that type of feeling depression whether it is with your cycle or you know we all get kind of just a funk to be able to separate like you literally had like this is a synthetic thing that is causing this but

it feels real. So I do wonder if that can help you going forward when your thoughts, I'm sure there were thoughts, you know, like negative future hopelessness, that kind of thing, especially because you're going through all of this to be able to kind of be like, this is not me. Yeah. This is this voice in my head is not really me. This is like coming from this hormone, physiological thing, even if it happens again and it's not because of Clomid, if it's just because of your cycle or because of just whatever, the moon, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. To be able to separate a little.

Totally. And it's funny that you say that because part of all of this, I've really gotten like super woo-woo while trying to deal with this since, you know, medical intervention is not really something we're exploring right now. I've been working with an energy healer. And I had a call with her over, I think it was like three days ago. And she was, she literally said the same thing. She's like, it is your mind.

She's like, you need to get out of your mind. and you need to remember that like it's all just like that's not reality. She's like you need to like go outside and touch a tree and like, you know what I'm like hug your husband or do something like that because you just get so caught up here that it, you know, that starts to affect your physical reality and you need to kind of learn to separate those two things. So like I agree with you 100%. It's definitely something that I've been trying to work with. And I want to get into the energy healer in a second.

So like, so you take the common and then I, I'm assuming it didn't, it didn't work. No, it didn't work. I did, I didn't like super duper. I was expecting to go in there and be like, you were ovulating five eggs this month. And I only got two, which is better than one. So I was happy with that. And it didn't work, which is when we kind of had the conversation around egg quality. And that's when my focus really became like.

Even just some egg quality after just one cycle didn't work? Yeah. I mean, like, I'll probably take Clomit again, especially if my new doctor is like, you know, you've done this once, your FSAH is in a good place. Like, let's try it again. Right. Um, I think that the confusion with him and the confusion with me is like, you know, I do still, I have, I've ovulated every cycle. Like I've had regular cycles, but I haven't gotten pregnant. And so he's, you know, my former doctor was, you know, like, I think it probably has more to do with egg quality than anything. or maybe it's just like a fluke. We've gotten all your hormone levels down. Like maybe we'll be able to kind of get you to a good point. And I want to be clear that like the only reason I'm not going to him anymore is like proximity to care. It has nothing to do with him as a doctor.

He was wonderful. It's just I'm in New Jersey now and I can't be coming into New York for these appointments. So this might be too much of a medical question, but it's kind of along lines of what you're saying. If you're taking the clomade, you're getting more eggs, is the idea that then the best egg is the one that drops down? Like I, I think that the idea is that, you know, people with POI, prebitura ovarian insufficiency, since our FSA levels are so high, we'll, you know, have a tendency to ovulate more than one egg in a month. And I think it's just, you know, if you have not great egg quality, you may have an op, like you may get two, one that's not great and one that's a little bit better.

You know what I mean? So it's like you're kind of upping your odds. The Clomond was supposed to to do that as well as if you're releasing multiple eggs into your body, like the chances of there being one that's actually good enough is higher. Okay. Instead of just getting the one. Two is like max or do? Um, two has been max for me so far. I don't like I'm sure you might be able to ovulate more. Like I said, I've heard of people, you know, he actually said that people with POI have a higher tendency of having twins because of this, which would be very cool. Yeah. Because then I could be done. after this one. I'm not sure what the max is, but for me it's been too.

How are you thinking about then, like, do you have a plan for like, yeah? And like how long you're going to try interventions, like what you're, you know, or are you kind of just like taking it month by month? It's funny. We just kind of had this, my husband and I had this conversation after our most recent conversation with our doctor because he was kind of like, if you want to try IVF, I recommend trying sooner.

And I just don't know that I'm really. ready for it yet. Like, I'm kind of taking it in six-month chunks. I'm like, okay, we've been trying this for six months. I was able to get my FSA-H down. Now, let's see how it goes for like another three to six months and we'll kind of go from there. I think that my biggest fear with POI is that I may go into early menopause because my ovaries are starting to slow down earlier than other people my age. But I'm not there yet. I think that what would really be like an instigating moment for me or like, you know, a real catalyst moment for me would be if I like fully skipped a period, if I fully skipped a cycle,

which I have not, like, that is like my red light moment for me. But we've talked about IVF, you know, I don't know that donor egg is the direction that I wouldn't want to necessarily go down. And I have, like, so much respect for women who do that and who have the, like, selflessness to be able to do that. I'm, like, pro having a family in whatever way that makes sense to people. I just don't know if that's something that is correct for my husband and I. Right. We've talked about adoption. We've talked about, you know, all, like, anything else that may be able to go to help us out.

IEY is another thing that we've talked about. But again, the odds of that over just natural cycle monitoring is not that much higher. So we're kind of in like a weird. I wish that there was like someone could say to me like, this is guaranteed to give you like 10% more of a chance. Right. And all of my percentages are like, okay, you may have like a 2% chance of a better outcome. And I'm like, is the juice worth the squeeze then? You know.

Well, I think it speaks to your husband and your communication that you even had this conversation. like about, because I think that's such an important conversation in the fertility space to have with your partner. It's like, okay, like, how far are we willing to go? And like, what are we open to and what are we not open to? And a lot of those times those conversations are like really hard, especially if you're on a different page. Totally. Or, you know, if someone, and it's hard also, I think probably for a lot of men in like heterosexual relationships. Because they might have ideas about what they want to do, but it's not their body.

They're not physically going through it. So like it's kind of like you get a say but like yeah doesn't weigh quite as much as mine. Um, and I think that like to align on those things early on is like really probably makes both people feel better and like, okay, we're on the same page. This is what we're willing to do. This is what we're not willing to do. This is how far how much we're willing to put into it. So like how is how is having that? Was you used to conversations like that?

Yeah. I mean, you know, he and I have been in and out of couples therapy for like a good chunk of our relationship. It's something that I believe very deeply in. I'm like, give me a neutral space to have difficult conversations, you know, we're both adults. Like, let's just do this. And I really do credit that to kind of us being able to have these difficult conversations. Because I think we both go into them knowing that we're not looking to hurt the other person or, you know, instigate the other person in any kind of way trigger them in any kind of way. It's mostly just like, we need to have this chat.

The donor-ig conversation was difficult because he was more open to it than I was, especially because he went in for testing and his analysis came back fine, you know? Right. And so that, you know, complicated things a little bit because, you know, it was sweet in a weird way. He was like, I wish that I also had an issue so that we could kind of be going through this together. And that is like a heavy burden that I have to carry is the fact that it's like I, in my darkest moment, I'm like, it's my body that is failing us. Right.

When he brought that up, I was really upset with him at first about, you know, how could you want to do this? Like, I can't believe it. And I finally had to, like, take a step back and be like, okay, like, look at things from his perspective and then also try and show him what my perspective was. And I was like, let's just say the shoe was on the other foot. And, like, your analysis is the one that came back to have an issue. And mine was fine. Would you be open to, like, donor spur? Right. And he, you know, was like, I actually don't think that I would want to do that. And I'm like, yeah, you know, I get it. Like I, you know, part of me is like, I wish I was selfless enough to be like I would be able to be perfectly fine if, you know, there was a child that we raised that was yours, you know, genetically, but not mine genetically. And like, you know, I would carry it and all that stuff. Like, it's so complicated that whole conversation. And, you know, again, I'm like, oh,

open, like I think that people who do that, it's wonderful. I know women who have had children with donor eggs. And it's, it's a beautiful thing to do. Um, but we both were kind of like, okay, we're either like in this 100% together or we will explore adoption. We'll explore other avenues. We've even had conversations around like, if we get to a point, like, do we even have kids? Do we just kind of, you know? And that's, I think, an ultimate question for anyone. It's like again in terms of like how much are we willing to do? How many years of our life are we willing to devote to this? How much like, you know, emotional, physical are we like?

And I think like I think, you know, when you go into it at first, you're like, oh, of course, like whatever it takes. Yeah. Forever. Like I'll try and try forever. Right. But then like once you're like fully in it, it does feel like, um, you're kind of like how much, you know, how much of my life am I going to put in this? I think that that is like a word that gets thrown around a lot. Like there's this idea that, you know, in order to be a family.

you need to have a child. And like, that's something that I've really tried to unlearn myself because I think that that is the way that I've always considered family. And, like, my husband Ben and I are a family, even though there's not a child there yet. And there may never be a child. I hope that there is, I believe in my heart that there will be at the end of all of this. But if there isn't, what will that life look like? And, you know, it's hard to kind of see the life that you think.

thought that you would have flash before your eyes when you're making that call. Or even letting yourself go there. Exactly. It's like kind of a scary thing to do at all. Like I've had those moments where I'm like, I think the first time someone mentioned that, like, what would that be like? I think you're kind of like, well, why would you even say that? Exactly.

Why are you speaking it into existence? Right. Yes. And like I don't even want to like think about what that would be because that's like so far from like any outcome that I want. But like I have had those thoughts where it's like almost like if you and I remember my therapist being like it's like like kind of limiting for you to like not even be able to imagine a world where people could be happy without kids. Like many people are happy without kids and they don't even want them. Yeah.

People actively make the choice not to have children. Right. It's not like a fate that is thrust upon them. Like they, I have a dear friend. I love her. She wants to get married. She wants to like do the whole wedding thing. She's like I do not want like children are just not part of my life.

But that's not a thing. that I want. And I have full respect for people who make that choice. So what does that look like when you go there in your head? Like if you go there for a minute or five minutes of like, can you share what that inner dialogue looks like if you do go there? Yeah. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind for me is like, I think of like us traveling and I think of us like, you know, doing all these things together. I'm very lucky. I say all the time that I have a wonderful husband who I can't imagine doing any of this with anybody but him. And we do have a great relationship just the two of us. And when I think about it, I'm like, it's what I know right now, because we don't have children.

And we're, you know, old, we're dinks. We're like double income no kids and we're able to, like, travel. And we just moved into this beautiful home and putting that together. And so, like, I know that there is richness there. It does make me sad. But it also, I've been trying to think of it less of, when I first started thinking of that life, there felt like there was something missing. And I've been trying to like think of it and imagine it outside of this idea of lack and just think of all the things that I could fill that space with instead of, like, if there was no child there, what could we do instead? You know, what could the other adventures be? Because I do think that like a big part of the reason why children have always been appealing to me and like why having a family has been appealing to me is just, you know, the ability to do something different with your life.

You know, it's, I've been single for a really long time and then I got married and like I know what that life looks like. I'm kind of always looking for what the next adventure would be, what the next chapter would be. And that doesn't necessarily need to involve children. I'm realizing. But it needs to be something. But it needs to be something. So whether we like, you know, get at an apartment in Berlin and split our time between there and here, you know, I explore like a side hustle that takes up a big chunk of my time or, you know, I have an amazing vegetable garden in my new home. You know, there's like a lot of opportunity there from like a large scale on a small scale.

Yeah. And I talk to people a lot about that. Like your life is good right now. Like you're happy. you have a good relationship, but there is always this urge for like the next thing, which it's very hard to talk people out of that because it's like I want an exciting, I want to feel like excited about the next chapter. So I really do get that.

And I guess when you go there, like even just now talking about that, do you feel a little pit in your stomach of like, but no, no, no, no. Yeah, I think because we're not, I'm not ready to throw in the towel. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I'm kind of just like, okay, like, I can dance on that and then I come, then quickly come back. And it's funny because I, it feels very similar to when I was single.

And all of my friends were like partnering up and getting married and doing all this stuff. And like I was showing up to all their weddings without a plus one. Like I felt a deep sense of lack. And I would do a similar thing where I would be like, okay, well, what if I never got married? What would my life look like? And I would kind of play that out. Right. as like a coping mechanism, I guess.

Right. But in the back of my head, I was always like, I know that I can do this on my own if I needed to, if I never met my person. But is that actually what I want? And the unfortunate thing is like, you know, I guess some people never meet their person. The kid thing feels a little bit more definitive than like the marriage and the dating thing.

Well, it's a whole identity that you form around being a mom. Totally. Yeah. Although you do former identities around being, you know, in a relationship or being any of those things. Totally. I think there's like, I agree. I think there's a lot of similarities. Yeah. A lot of like parallels to that feeling. And I think especially for women as you're thinking of like how you're seeing reaching a certain milestone like wanting to, you know, obviously like you want a baby for the reason that you want a baby. Like you want like it for itself. But I think there's so many other factors that are sort of like ingrained in you from childhood about. Like, like, like it for itself. But I think there's so many other factors that are sort of like ingrained in you from childhood about. like what it means to be an adult woman. And part of that is like being married and having a child. Yeah. I grew up in like a very conservative Italian American family where it's like that's what women did. You got married. You had babies. And the idea of not having children,

it's like, okay, so what do you do then? And so like, and I've unlearned a lot of that, thankfully. Like I said, I know that I would have a very rich life if the kid thing never happened. but that's like a deep, you know, societal definite, you know, it just, it's there. Every person has a mother. That's how they saw a woman. Woman is mother. Exactly. And it's just like, it's just the expectation.

It's really hard to be in a, especially when you're in a scenario like us where you're like, I want this thing. Like I'm really trying. Like I'm trying so hard. It's not like I'm actively rejecting this. Like I'm trying so hard to reach this. Right. definition of womanhood that like the world has set forth for me and I'm just not getting there totally I remember walking through like time square I'm like how much so many fucking people here like I just work for so many people just like I think of all the times where I'm like God I was so worried about accidentally getting pregnant I can be so lucky now I want to if you're open I want to go back for a second because when you were talking about that piece of like you guys choose you guys choose you're open I want to go back for a second because when you were talking about that piece of like you guys.

choosing if it gets there, which maybe it won't choosing adoption over egg donor. I think it's, that's a really personal thing. So if you're not open to talking about it, but I do think it would help some listeners to hear like what the thought process is and the emotions around like having a baby that's genetically one parent versus the other parent and then deciding let's do neither of us versus one of us. I don't know. It may be taboo, but I just, I worry about my, about.

to, and I'm sure I would love a child, because I think about it as well that, like, if he brought a child from a previous relationship into our relationship, I would love that child unconditionally, you know. But I think that it would just be, I worry that it would be, I'm, like, afraid that I'm going to get canceled on this point.

I'm so nervous and also. No, I'm totally open to talking about it, but I think that a part of me is worried that, like, there would be some resentment forever. Yeah. And I think that's completely valid. I mean, I think you see on any fertility post, and that's all I'm fed these days. Of anyone who, like, you know, has having trouble and is complaining with it.

There's always, like, five to ten commenters who are like, why wouldn't you just adopt? Yeah. Right? And it's like, that's like, that feels like a statement you would make not really understanding a lot of this. And I think it's kind of like, well, why is that like on my, why is that on me? to like feel like I need to do this for you.

Why am I not entitled to like the same thing that everyone else is? Completely. Yeah. Completely. I like when we're talking about this, I'm like playing out a scenario in my head where like we have a child with a donor egg

and it's being a real brat. And in my head I'm like, this is his fucking good. You know what I mean? Like I, and that's messed up. I think those are valid thoughts that people think and don't say out loud.

And I think that that's completely. Or that hard moment where, you know, they, make the same face and they look the same and you feel excluded and like you can't have that thing about she gets this from you and gets it from me. I just always worry about being like the odd parent out, you know, and I know that that happens naturally with children. They tend to favor one parent over the other as they grow up. But like, I worry that there would be some like just something always in the back of my head. And maybe it would never happen. Maybe I would be able to do this

completely selflessly. And, you know, it would be no drama whatsoever. But I don't know. I just, Like I don't know if that's a risk I'm willing to take. I would rather us go like where we feel like such equal partners in our relationship that like it feels like let's continue to go into parenthood as equal partners. And it feels like there would be an imbalance. Yeah. Almost between you and him. Right.

Right. Well, does the idea that you're both open to adoption though also like give you a sense of like, all right, in the like case scenario that none of these other things happen? Not that adoption is like such a guarantee, but like it feels like more of a guarantee. than anything else? Does that give you a sense of peace? Or you're still kind of like, that's still not something I'm like really hoping for. So I'm still kind of really, it doesn't take any of the edge off about any of this other stuff. I probably hold it at the same level of interest as not having children.

Like I kind of, you know, I think that we would have to exhaust all of our opportunities. And like it's not that that adoption would be like the absolute next step. Then we would like, you know, if we went through everything in trying to have a biological child, like, and it didn't work, then we would come to the crossroads of like, okay, so do we adopt or do we not have children? Right. Like, I, it's not, given that that's like the next step. Exactly. I'm not like, okay, that's like in two years if we're still here, like we're going to go through the process of adoption. I'm kind of like, in two years, if we're still here, we'll have the conversation about what we want to do. That's probably a smart way to think about it anyway, because like in two years,

if you were still here, like, your whole thought process might change on like so many levels of it. Well, And that's something that I've even become aware of going through this process. I mean, if you had asked me a year ago, like, would you go through IVF if it meant that you, you know, if you found out that you couldn't have children for whatever reason, would you go through IVF? I would have told you no. Right. I would have been like, absolutely not.

It's not something I want to do. Like my body, like, I know how I am on hormones. Like, million reasons, right? I wish every day that I could do that and that it would be more of a, guarantee now. Like, and it's that flipped so quickly. Like the second that was off the table for me, I was like, I wish I could do that now. And I kick myself for being so definitive about it in the past. You know, I think that what this whole experience has taught me is that like I can't hang on to any one decision. Like, I need to be open to the fact that like my feelings are constantly going to

be in flux about all of this. Totally. I think that like there's so much about this where you like look at a former self and you're like, you didn't know what you were talking. I mean, I remember thinking like when I would hear other people, like, people I didn't really know that well going through this kind of thing. And I would always say, like not in front of them, but I would say to someone else like, it does feel like with enough time and resources like everyone like eventually gets there. And now I look at that version of me and I'm like, shut up. Yeah, really?

No idea you're talking about. But it does give you a sense of like, again, more compassion, more like, you know, a sense, I think not just for fertility, but for all things in life to just be like, okay, I know less than I think I know. And like, it's hard to fully understand anything unless you've gone through it, which is something I take to so many things that I don't understand. Yeah. But I wanted to talk about your, about the energy healer.

My energy healer. Because I've been doing, is it like a Reiki person? Yeah, so mine is actually, people are going to think of this crazy. Mine's over the phone. Okay. Have you never met her? I've never met her. Okay.

Is this like when you call like a psychic? No. The only reason I'm okay with it is because she was referred by someone. Okay. I trust implicitly. and she's like, you should work with this woman. Her name is Manwala. She's like, but she's in Mexico, so you have to do it over the phone.

I'm like, really? Is this actually something, Matt? But since I've been working with her, I've been feeling positive changes. So I'm like, it may be complete, like, snake oil, but it's working for me. This is part of what you did and you said you got your numbers down. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to hear more about, like, how did that play into it?

Because I also think there's, like, in this sense when you're kind of at this crossroads, there's the sense of, like, science and then, like, holistic stuff. Totally. And it's hard to, sometimes you're like, it feels like a spectrum of like, because those two sides like both think the other one's bullshit. Totally. Like every like energy person will be like, doctors don't know anything. Yeah, exactly. And doctors will be like, these people are scamming you.

So it's very hard. But it's like I've also kind of been in the place of like I kind of want to do a little bit of both. And they seem so counterintuitive. So like how do you, I'm wondering how you look at that. For me, I think it's something that I've always kind of like erred towards like I read tarot. I have crystals all over my house. like literally the first thing that I did when I found out about this was I called my mother and I was like, which saint is good for fertility?

Can you get me that necklace? And I wear the metal around my neck now, St. Gerard. And I have my energy beads for fertility here. Like it's just something that like I naturally go towards. Like I said, I read tarot. I'm big into my horoscope, all that stuff. And acupuncture was actually the first thing that I did, which. what I think is like the intersection center because that was actually the only one they both allow

totally and that was actually something that my R.E. recommended and I was like I'm already, I'm already there. Like I was able to book her before I was able to book you. I've been going for four months for weeks. Thank you. But so that was actually first and like the like the herbs and everything like that which kind of got me on the supplement train. I've been taking a ton of supplements. I like my husband calls them my horse pills because I just like take so many of them. But the energy healer thing feels hand in hand with therapy in a kind of way. Like, you know, I'm not, as much as I've tried to, I'm not a huge meditator. Like, I tried to build a meditation practice into my life in multiple moments of my life.

And it's just never really stuck. The way my phone operated energy healer works is she and I will set up a time and she'll text me and she'll be like, I'm starting on you now. And it gives me the opportunity for like an hour to just be very present in my body because I'm supposed to like try and connect with her energetically. I feel like I sound insane. Oh, no judgment. And I'm supposed to like connect with her. And it really helps me to kind of like get into my body at that point, you know, and to just like take a breath and really focus on myself. And it's the closest thing to meditation that I've been able to keep up.

You know, it's just like a mindful. Seems like a form of meditation. Totally. It's like a mindful moment. for myself. Yeah, well, what I think it is and why I think a lot of these things actually do work is what we were talking about before, where you're sewing your head, you're sewing your head, you're in your head, you think you can figure out the solution to the problem, like thinking about it and what doctors and what, you know, even like the supplement, like just a lot of mind chatter.

And so I think when you come to a place of whether it's faith and church or spirituality, there's almost like a letting go that happens and quieting the mind of like I'm going to give this over to something that I don't understand. Yeah. And that can be really just bring you the piece that plays into that other piece of like, well, you better not be stressed because if you're stressed, you're not going to get pregnant and you're going to have this. And so like you better relax.

And it's like, okay, I better relax. And how do I relax? Yeah. So sometimes just like giving it up to God or energy or a healer. Whatever it is, it just like, trust is important because otherwise you think you're in charge. Yeah. And you're not. And that's the issue.

She literally in our last session was like, you're trying so hard. She's like, you're trying so hard to have a baby right now. It's just like you're sweating it and you're working. And she's like, if you believe that this is like a spirit that's supposed to come into your life, where does it have the room to do that? If you're just like, you're gripping. You need to just like let go and just kind of like put your faith into the universe. And that's kind of where I've been trying to think more recently.

And it sounds like, I mean, is that you think, you said your numbers have gotten better. Yeah. You're ovulating from the other side now. Like what do you, what do you like credit that to? I really do feel I've been trying to do that. I've been trying to like just let things roll off my back a little bit more. Like definitely more successful in some moments than others. Like I definitely do get stressed sometimes, especially like moving has been crazy.

But I do also credit the, like I moved out of Brooklyn to the country and like having a little bit more breathing room, having a little bit more space getting into nature. Like I've really been trying to slow down. Something my therapist, not my energy healer, my therapist, one of my battery of women who's trying to get pregnant right now. She said, my therapist said to me, she's like, you need to start acting like you're pregnant now. she's like you're not pregnant yet but if you want to try and create a energy around you to bring that in she's like you need to start being selfish and kind of prioritizing yourself and like when you're pregnant you're kind of given the ability to do that a little bit more right because you know you have an excuse you know us as women were not really allowed to kind of put ourselves first in a lot of ways and um you know be selfish and you know be selfishly and selfishly like say no to, you know, hanging out with people or I can't, like, you know,

I can't stay late and do this thing. Like, I need to focus on myself or, you know, even something as little as like my husband wanting to go for a walk and me just wanting to sit on the couch by myself for 20 minutes while he does that. And so I've been trying to really like take that in and use this moment in my life. Like, I always try and look for lessons of the difficult parts of my life. like it's really the only way I can cope and whether or not a baby comes out of this like I think that this is a very important moment in my life to kind of remind myself to put myself first um which is tough

and it's not something that's easy to do once you have a child and so you know if I do believe that like your children come into your life to teach you something like I like to think that maybe my eventual child is teaching me to kind of prioritize myself and I need to to learn that karmic lesson before they enter my life. Mother yourself. Exactly. Mother myself, take care of myself before I can take care of myself. When you talked about the identity of a mother,

and that's important to be able to maintain your own self-care, your own identity when it happens for you, which if you want it to. Totally. It will. To close out the episode, let's take a moment to recharge with a segment sponsored by First Response. Every moment of the fertility journey is different for everyone, and we all handle waiting for that positive test in our own way. No matter what you're struggling with on your journey to conceive, our friends at first response want to help you find some positive in the negative, whatever that looks like for you.

So I wanted to ask you, you know, thank you so much for sharing your story. Is there anything that you felt like for the listeners who are listening who feel like they're in like a similar spot who are going through it, anything that you feel like has helped you kind of like stay positive or. just get through to the other side. Yeah, I feel like you can hang in there longer. I think that you're in your tougher moments. Yeah, I've really,

you know, been very open about my experience. Like, I've written about it in my newsletter. I've talked to friends about it. Like, I've let people know when things are hard. I think that has been really healing for me in a lot of ways,

you know, even though this is something that a lot of women go through and, you know, it's great that there are podcasts like this where we can kind of talk about it and find community and do all that stuff. On the day to day, you know, none of my friends went through this. I had to kind of search for community outside of my typical friend group. I think just being incredibly like open about it has been the thing that's been most positive for me. Like this isn't something to be ashamed of. It's something that many women go through. It's incredibly difficult. And, And I think being able to kind of say, like, I'm having a really hard day.

You know, I went through a situation with a friend of mine. She lost her father. And I really wanted to be there for her. But she was staying with her sister who has a new baby. And I had gotten some bad fertility news around that time. And it was so difficult to have to say to her, like, I want to be there for you, but I can't be there for you physically because this is something that is incredibly triggering for me. And she understood.

And I was so, in the past, I would have never been open about that. I would have, yeah, or I would have just swallowed it and gone there, you know, and like put myself in harm's way in order to feel like I wasn't being a bad friend. I think that just kind of being able to say, I'm really hurting right now and this is what I need is kind of the strongest,

most comforting thing that you do. And, you know, people don't know how to help you unless you let them know. Especially people who haven't gone through this before. So just like really honoring yourself and not being afraid to talk about it. I think it's the most important thing. Interesting that the way to stay positive is by like acknowledging the negative. Yeah.

You know, and like speaking it out loud. Yeah. I said, you know, my father was, I hate, said to me one time, like, you know, we were on vacation and you heard me crying because we got a negative pregnancy test. And he was like, I hate hearing you cry. And I was like, yeah, I understand that. but like I have to cry because if I try and hold the sadness to the side, it just prolongs it. Like if I just get that feeling out, then I'm able to like work through it and then move on. You know, I can't just sit in the negative.

I need to like express it and that gives me the freedom and the space to kind of move on from it. And I'm going to feel it again. I know I'm going to feel it again. So I may as well feel it now. Right. And it stops you from then creating more negativity in your life. if you're like getting resentful and now you're kind of like passive aggressive with this friend. Completely.

Now you're adding like interpersonal conflict on top of what you're going through. Yeah. Yeah. That stems from like an avoidance of going there. Just like facing things head on. It's the most difficult thing in the world, but it's also the most like cathartic thing here. So thank you again to first response, the pregnancy test brand that is there for you no matter where you are on your journey.

When it comes to pregnancy and planning, first response supports and empowers one. women along their journeys because every test is more than just a result. Well, I think that's really great advice. And thank you again so much for sharing your story. Thank you for having me. And thanks for keeping us posted along the way. And where can anyone find like your substack or if they want to like kind of come with you on this journey?

Where can they follow you? My substack is called Sunday sauce because I don't just write about infertility. I also write about food. Oh. So sauce and sauce and. sauce and babies, you know. So it's sundaysauce.com. And then my Instagram is at Maria del Rousseau.

Awesome. So nice to get to know you. Thank you for sharing. And we'll be back next time on baby steps. Betches.