Oversharing - Balancing Empathy and Anger In The Face Of Addiction

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

This week, Jordana Abraham and Dr. Naomi are catching up on the emotional dynamics of pet ownership with a puppy check-in! Today's Overshare wonders how to be supportive towards your partner while wrestling with feelings of betrayal. Together they address the complexities of trust, remorse, and recovery within relationships, particularly after a relapse. Dr. Naomi provides a meaningful intention for a bride-to-be as she wedding plans and begins to feel the absence of her family. Plus, one listener is triggered by an un-happy hour while another learns she's been low-key paying for her own birthdays gifts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Trinana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. I've been dying actually to talk to you about this podcast that I'm obsessed with.

Oversharing. Aside from Oversharing and you up. And all the Betches podcast is not a Betches podcast. We got distracted with Ronnie. How's he doing, by the way? Quick check in. He's good. He's good.

He's definitely biting. I'm trying not to take it personally. Yeah. He scratched up my hands a little bit. But, you know, he's very, very loving. I do look forward to seeing him when I'm, like, out for an hour. It's very exciting. Yes.

Those are his little love bites. I just do you think it's interesting the way, like, something needing you. kind of like makes you feel like a little bit of a different person. Like obviously if you have like a partner, there's like a certain level of that. But they're like pretty self-sufficient. Right. I think as opposed to like really needing you to like survive. Yes.

So I do think that's like kind of opened up a little bit of a different side of me because I've never really had that before. Totally. Yeah. There is a different thing between loving something that needs you and like almost like a friend. friendship love or romantic love where you're like you're good on your own like Jeff sometimes will say to me like how come you don't have as much empathy for me when I like I'm anxious about something as you do for the kids and I'm like because you're an adult and you're supposed to be able to like I figured it out kind of by now. I mean I sound callous like I have empathy for him but it's not the same endless tank of empathic energy that I'll have for a child. or like even, you know, if Ronnie was like when you take him to the vet and he starts like shaking or he's nervous, which maybe he hasn't done yet because he doesn't realize what he's in for. But like it's so sad and hard. And like if Mike's like, hey, I have to go to the doctor.

Like I'm feeling nervous. You're kind of like, all right, whatever. He doesn't like needles. Right. Yeah. No, I agree. I'm like, all right. You'll get over it.

Like we all do that. Right. Right. I guess there's more of a feeling of like, and this sounds weird, but there's a little bit more feeling of like owner. Like maybe maybe that is that what changed is that like wrong that feels like you care because you like it's mine. Yeah like maybe a little narcissistic like I'm going to turn this thing into something that is what I want it to be. So like I don't want it to be control. Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe. Interesting. No, it is a different feeling. We'll have to unpack that in a future episode for sure. But tell me about this podcast. Sorry. So this podcast, someone recommended it to me once, another patient recommended it to me twice.

After I heard it the third time, I was like, all right, I'm going to check it out. It's called the telepathy tapes. Okay. Have you heard of it? I haven't heard of it. No. It's basically a researcher who has discovered that, according to her, so here, caveat this, right? I'm a psychologist, I'm a scientist.

I haven't vetted all of the information in this podcast. It sounds legit. They have real research protocols. Have I dug deep and found out all the details? No. But on the surface, according to them, almost all nonverbal, autistic kids, young adults have this power of telepathy. So they have... What is telepathy exactly?

It's, well, that... I used to think it was pronounced telepathy because I don't know how to pronounce things. I believe you. It's tough. Sorry, call. So they have telepathy. And the podcast goes into like what exactly is telepathy, which if you want to find out the nitty, gritty details of what they're trying to figure out.

But on the surface, what it is, they usually attach to one caregiver, whether it's a teacher or a parent, someone that they can really trust, that they have love for. And they can communicate through their minds. So like the research that they do, which hooks you. right away is they have these kids that basically they show the parent like a three digit number from, you know, whatever, one to a thousand. And the parent looks at the three, randomly generated three digit number on a screen. And the kid who's across the room, they use these letter boards to communicate because they're like pretty much close to or nonverbal. So this is only like,

you said autistic kids that are nonverbal. Yes. Okay. This. So far, I mean, that's what they're finding. And I think the reason why it's hard to figure this out is because they are nonverbal. And the trouble with this is that these children have a very hard time with gross motor function. The whole idea is that they're very disconnected from their bodies, which what I love about this podcast is the idea that they're disconnected from their bodies allows them to like tap into this sixth sense, so to speak, which is like a consciousness. a collective consciousness. So they can basically type into the letterboard and they can with almost 100% accuracy tell you what number their parent is thinking about from across the room.

That's crazy. So it's crazy. How big is the sample? I mean, like I feel like a sample of one would still be impressive. Impressive. So that's what the people are saying is they're kind of like once you see this in real life, like you're really sold on it.

So that's like the first like two episodes or three. maybe is just kind of getting you to believe that this really exists from the people that are working with these kids. And they bring in like a Harvard trained researcher who's like really tightly trying to do this research that allegedly lost her license because she was doing this type of research, which was considered like woo-woo nonsense. Right. They call the scientists that will not believe in something that can't be measured materialists. Okay. So now I've walked around like calling everybody like my dad for example he thinks it's a load of shit and i'm like right oh it's okay you're just an unevolved materialist um you'll get there yeah i think that's so interesting and to me

i believe it you see this i think in animals yes they all like turn together you know you see that with like fish or like birds or like dogs like when sometimes there's like a thing and they all like turn together in the same way and they're not like speaking yes so i do think that there's like energy and like some sort of like, I don't know, I don't even know what the word for it is, but there's clearly something beyond, I think, what we can see just because we don't understand it, I think doesn't mean it exists. Like if you told someone that AI existed 50 years ago, they'd be like, that sounds like bullshit. Yeah, I've gotten a lot more into to woo-woo kind of stuff. And this seems like sort of in between like, you know what I mean? Like not,

this isn't like tarot reading, but it's not, you know, there's has to, probably hasn't been loads of research studies proving it. So, but maybe there will be. I don't know. It's funny you bring up the animals. They talk about that. They bring on this author who writes a book, something like,

your dog knows when you're coming home. And he does like a legit research studies where someone like left their house. And there was like a researcher, I guess, in the house with the dog, watching the dog. And they would call the person on the phone or whatever and say, okay, like come home.

now. And once the owner got the thought in their head that it's time to come home and started like coming towards home, the dog would go to the door and wait for the owner. Like at that same moment that the owner got the phone call, okay, it's time to come home. And it's not that they heard the owner's voice through the phone. I mean, I haven't looked at the study. But like he wrote a whole book on it. So I'm sure that they probably, I mean, look it up, read the book, but the example of like birds, it's almost like so obvious that so the reason I was like, and still am kind of obsessed with this. Like, you know, even the kids were like, uh, mom, I think you need to take a break. You keep talking about these like autistic kids and their telepathy. But what it did for me

was it solidified some of this idea of like a hope and a trust. in what we don't understand. Like we're so earthbound. Like it almost made me, then the podcast goes on past telepathy to like this collective consciousness that I'm not going to spoil it for you, but like basically all these nonverbal kids

are like meeting telepathically together and how they get, how some of these autistic savants get all of their knowledge at by tapping into this collective consciousness of music and art and language and mathematics and all these things. But long story short, I love it because it feels like the intersection of science and spirituality. And it allows me to trust in almost like if I die or Jeff dies or someone passes that I'll be with them again.

And like my collective, like it just made me feel not so scared of. death in some ways? And that's when the kids were like, all right, mom, like, take it down a notch. I just want to get ice cream without pondering my, you know, inevitable death. Yeah, when I started talking about like, well, maybe, you know, we don't have to be so scared of death. Lila's like, ma, chill with the telepathy tapes. No, I think it's very cool. I like that stuff. I'm somewhere in the middle, I think. Yeah. I think it's kind of like narcissistic or crazy to think that we know that everything that we know all there is to know. Yes. It really makes you feel like we're so egotistical that we think with our

little instruments that we could measure every energetic force that there is on this planet. Like it just doesn't make any sense. It's really inspirational. I highly recommend if you're looking for a little bit of a spiritual connection that feels like there's some science behind it. I think it's pretty awesome. I have patients that have a child that's developmental. delayed and they have a lot of fears of like, oh my gosh, and what if they're autistic and what if they never speak? Right. And things like this, like these kids are not only are they not like less than because of

their disabilities. They're like these spiritual beacons that we should be honored to even come in contact with. Like they're in touch with something that's like beyond all of us. So it almost makes you feel like, okay, this is, you know, what feels on this earth like a disability or a disadvantage or this really negative, you know, diagnosis is an opportunity to connect to something so much larger than what we are. So it's pretty cool. I think that's like beautiful. I think it's also like, you know, we all kind of want to fit in. But I think it's kind of sort of like the idea that you could, you know, there's something really.

special about not fitting in. I don't know. It's not always telepathy, but there is some, you know, like things that come out of not being just like part of the, like the regular crap or the quote unquote normal or whatever is standard. Right. Like whatever that is. It's not so obvious. Yes. Yeah. Whatever that is that makes you not fit in like that could be your special gift that makes you unique and different. Like we're just, it's yeah. As a as a parent, are you kind of. As a parent, are you kind of like with your kids, are you almost like, well, I want them to be unique, but I want them to also be like me, like because that's what you understand. Right. I understand the things, like the thought processes that are like my own thought processes.

So it's probably almost like you think of those as right. Or like easier to connect with them. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's probably the harder part is like even if it's cooler, it's still not the way that you. you that you understand how to communicate. Anyway, I'm obsessed with it.

I think you guys should check it out. You know, it's funny when I told my dad that I was, you know, obsessed with this podcast and he came at me with his materialist mindset. He's like, well, maybe you shouldn't really talk about that, like on your podcast. But I love it. No, I think it's cool. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm into. I mean, I told you, I've seen the Reiki healers. I've done like. Yes. They talk about crystals, how these kids really, some of them really connect with crystals because there's like an energetic component that they can pick up a lot better than we can. I totally believe in energy, believe in like all of that stuff and like brain rewiring and all that. So I'm going to listen. Maybe we'll do another catch up once I listen.

I would love to talk with you more once you listen. And if any of you listeners out there are listening, write in. I want to hear what you think. Write in some feedback on what you think of it. Or if you're a hater, let us know why that is. Yeah. And this isn't an April Fool's joke because it is April 1st. So happy April Fool's Day.

Oh, that's right. Oh, that's today. No, this is not April Fool's. I think this is a legit thing. Check it out. I will. I like this stuff. So I would prefer to like watch something like this in a documentary.

Yes. I was hoping there was like a documentary, but it's just. I'm sure they'll make one if it's a popular show. It's three people recommending it. It deserves a documentary. Yeah. All right. Let's get into it.

Let's get into our show with the lowly verbal communicators. For all you simpletons out there, we're about to start. All right. I will read our first email. Let's do it. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. We love the podcast. Look forward to every episode each week and recommended to everyone I know.

I was hoping you could help me with an issue with my husband. These past few months, my husband has been struggling with a gambling addiction. This manifests itself with him using crypto. I know very little about the crypto world, but essentially he will invest in coins and trade depending on the market, which changes at a rapid pace. A few months ago, he told me that he lost a large amount of his savings through crypto. A majority of this was his own savings, but a good portion of this included wedding gifts. We were recently married and he had yet to make a joint account, so we split the wedding gift money into each of our accounts for the time being until we could merge it.

This was obviously devastating to me in a difficult time for us as a couple, but we were able to work through it together. He stopped trading and he started getting therapy. We got to be in a really good spot in our relationship through it. But a week ago, he told me that he was secretly trading again this past month and he again lost a large sum of money. I am furious. It's not just the loss of money for me, but it's the lying and betrayal that hurt me the most. I'm still committed to working on this relationship, though, and I ultimately trust that he can manage this addiction. We've discussed new plans to work through this again for hopefully the last time,

including couples therapy, weekly budget reviews, where he will show me his spending in his own account and even him attending some gambling addict meetings. Now to my issue I'm seeking help with. I'm finding myself in conflict between being a supportive partner and an angry victim. He's struggling right now mentally. He's incredibly upset with himself, stressed about his finances, and just generally seems depressed. I want to be there for him and help him through this, but it's hard when I'm so mad at him. For example, I will be quick to get angry if I see the dishes not put away because he's been lying on the couch all evening in a depressive bog. Or if he tells me that he's annoyed with me over something I did, I am not sympathetic and I am slow to apologize.

There is a part of me that understands that he needs time to care for himself, but there is also a part of me that feels like he should be doing anything and everything to make me happy. I'm the one he betrayed, so shouldn't he be doing everything to get my trust back? The logical side of my brain knows it's not reasonable that he will suddenly drop everything to prove himself to me, but it's hard to ignore this feeling or feel compelled to be a partner to him. If I help him, I feel like I'm forgiving him for everything. But if I don't help, I'm so sad to see someone I love struggling. What should couples do when both people are struggling, but it's because of one person's actions?

What are ways you can help your partner without feeling like you're compromising your own feelings? Sorry if this is super long, but I hope it gives a picture of what I'm going through. any thoughts to be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, a no Bitcoin betch. This is such a good question. Yes. Because this could be anything. This could be drugs. This could be alcohol.

This could be cheating. Cheating. Cheating, yes. The hard part, again, is like they're both going through it at the same time. Like, that's always when I do couple stuff, those are the hardest moments. Like when you both need the other person to be a life preserver and you're both like grabbing onto each other and bringing each other down. Or like you're just treading water, lonely and afraid by yourself.

The addiction component, I think the one, so I really feel for her, and this is hard because she wants him to be making it better for her. The tough part is she says in there, like, hopefully for the last time, right? Like, yeah, or that he's going to do this gambling thing. And she wants to be like behind them. Yes. And that's the struggle with addiction. And that's why they do the thing, like an alcoholic's anonymous, where like you're always an alcoholic. Like you're always over. Even when you're clean for 40 years, you're still an addict. So I think she has to come at it from a mindset of like this may happen again. But when it happens, we have a plan in place where he's going to come clean and be honest. and feel safe. This is the hard part, right?

Feel safe to come to her and say, uh, I relapsed. Right. Or I really want to. Yes. Trade. Better.

Whatever. More ideal. If he could do. Right. Yeah. Come to her beforehand. But the hard part is she's so angry and she's in a mindset of like, this better not happen again.

Right. So if it were to happen again. And I get, I totally understand that. Yeah. That's like very. annoying to be like my you've taken my we're starting off our new married life and you've taken something that was ours and it's gone yeah yeah and it's really hard to get over that anger but if

what she's saying is true that it's really less about the money and more about the lies and the deceit then i think if she can lean into like the priority is honesty the priority is like coming to me when you're having an urge coming to me when you're if you've done something that you feel regretful about. I'm going to try my best to be supportive and like thankful that you came to me that I didn't have to find this out. However, I think the part that she that might make her feel better is him committing to some type of actual behavior change, which is like getting a sponsor would be great. Like I really like the AA. NA gambling anonymous like all I really think that this was developed a really long time ago and I

think they were on to something with that whole model. And I think if he can get involved in that in a real way, like getting a sponsor going to meetings several times a week, she might feel like, okay, this is what he's doing. Like he doesn't need to get up and do the dishes to show me that he is remorseful and doesn't want this to happen again and cares about me, he's going to get up and go to a meeting. And that's going to be his show of like action. And I'm not going to let this happen again. Right. And it feels like kind of similar to like a cheating thing. She kind of does feel like she's like owed. Yeah. Like a little bit like she's kind of like, well, how could you even have any issue with me? Like you've done this horrible thing. Like you don't really deserve to be

irritated with me in the first place. So I'm not, I'm not even like there's this feeling of he should be sorry every day. Yes. Like you would if you had cheated and you had done something like that, which I, you know, I get. You're kind of like, I don't want you to forget that you've done this. Right. But I also don't want you to be depressed. So it's hard. It feels like if you're kind and soft and supportive, that it's almost like going to make it okay for the person to keep doing this. But he doesn't want to keep doing this. Like he's not winning. It would be different almost if he was like winning money and you're like eventually

the other shoe is going to drop. Like he went to Vegas and came home with 10 grand and you were like, okay, like you can't keep doing that eventually. He's, I mean, it's not working out for him. So I think you have to trust that he doesn't want to keep doing this. And you being nice to him or kind to him or soft with him isn't going to make him feel like, oh, it's all okay. Because when it comes to real addiction, which it seems like what he has,

like no reaction that you're going to give him is going to scare him into not doing it. Right. If anything, it's going to make him feel, which is part of why I like the, you know, alcoholics, narcotics, anonymous concept is it's like shedding your shame, like what we've talked about on here. It's like the shame is what keeps you sick. So if he relapses and then you're mad and withholding and make him feel ashamed of himself, it's just going to breed more of this desire to go out and do this thing, which is a temporary

relief from his feelings of shame. So I know it's so hard. Like I do not envy her position at all. Yeah. I think this is very hard. And this is all this advice is predicated on the idea that she wants to be in this marriage, work through it and stay with him. This is a big betrayal. If this is something that she thinks is too not something that she wants to sign up, for, because they are married, I think that's also completely legitimate. Yep. It is a big betrayal. It is a big problem to deal with.

And it's not going to just be over after a few therapy sessions. And so I think that if she wants to think about that and think about her capacity for going through it, and it sounds like she does, sounds like she wants to work through it. She's open to doing that. It's going to take a lot more maybe than she's realized. But if she didn't want to do that, you're allowed to leave for any reason. Yeah. Yeah.

I agree. It is big commitment. she is going to have to, you know, prioritize his recovery in the sense that like expecting relapse is part of recovery. You know, it's like one of the stages of recovery. And it happens from time to time. But it's like, how do you handle the relapse? It's one of the most like horrible couple dynamics that I've experienced a lot is when

there's an affair, like you brought up, that this is similar to cheating. The person like actually loves their affair partner. Like it's not like a fling, like a one-nighter. It's like an affair with a person that they have feelings for. But then the couple comes in. Maybe they have kids or they just decide they want to work on the marriage. So one person is like fuming angry that they have been cheated on.

Right. And the other person's like grieving a breakup. So it's like I'm supposed to support you in your sadness that you're no longer with this mistress, this person, doesn't have to be a woman, could be a man either way, whatever it is. Like this like extramarital partner, I'm supposed to be like kind to you because you're depressed because you miss this other person. So this is at least not that.

That one is really hard. But I have couples that do it. Well, in this case, the mistress is a little bit of like the gambling. Yeah. That's, you know, I mean, it's not like apples to apples, but it is a sense of like, yeah, you're sad that you can't do this anymore. Maybe you thought the next, the next round was going to be your,

your thing. Like, I'm sure there is a little bit of, in his depression, this feeling of maybe if I just did one more round of this, I could dig myself out of this hole. And it probably has been a crutch for him. Like, it may have started with like, betting on basketball in high school, you know,

and then it evolves and it morphs. And it's always kind of this, like, thing that gets you through, that gives you this excitement or this jolt and now it's off the table and that there is like a grief process. I think you're signing on to this. Maybe, you know, there's support that you can be getting on your own, I think, if you really do decide you're going to do this the right way. And, but I think the message to him has to be, I can't stop you from doing this, but I can ask to be part of your recovery in like you sharing with me your urges, you sharing with me your, your

relapses in addition to getting a sponsor and really working a program because they're out there and they work and they help. And those programs are really great because they, when you go through the 12 steps, you're figuring out why this is happening. You're figuring out like what are the underlying emotions that are causing me to want to gamble. What do you think of that like budgeting weekly meeting they have? Yeah, I think that's good in the beginning when it's really tough. But I think it, And that's like him being accountable and her feeling a little bit more like in control and aware. But I do hope they can get to a point where he's just open to sharing because he feels safe. Right.

With her. But I think in the beginning, it's almost like going through someone's phone after they've cheated. Right. To earn the trust back a little bit. Yeah. Hopefully it's not a permanent. Yes. I wouldn't recommend that forever.

But for a few months to kind of feel like, okay, this soothes the injured partner. feeling a little bit safer. Okay, I can go through your phone. We're going to check the budgets. We're going to look at the bank accounts every week or whatever it is. Fine in the beginning. And I do think he needs to hear how she was hurt by it. Like he needs to be able to tolerate that.

Not in a nasty like name calling, but just in a she needs space to be able to say how she's feeling. I mean, part of the 12 step program is like making amends. Right. That's how that works. It's like you're forced to face the person. the eye that you've hurt through your addiction and like tolerate. I sit with that feeling of, wow, I feel a lot of shame right now. Okay, I'm going to breathe. I'm going to drop my shoulders.

I can handle that. I can handle this feeling of shame. And once you can learn to handle the feeling of shame, then you won't need the drug of choice anymore, which in his case is gambling. Yeah. I think that's very good advice. Let's obviously easier said than done. Yeah. easier so than done. I really feel for her. This is not going to be easy. I think she's going to need her own therapist to support her through this if she decides to stay in the relationship. For sure. All right. Well, good luck. Let's do a betchesist. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I have a friend dilemma for the pod that I'd love your input on, having to do with monetary gestures and friendships. I have a few different friend groups,

high school, college, and coworkers. Each group usually always chips in on big gifts. together like a baby shower gift or a sentimental gift for a relative passing, which I'm happy to contribute to. Lately, though, it seems like these group gifts are becoming so frequent for any and all occasions. Anytime someone updates a group with news, someone always starts a side chat asking who wants to chip in on a gift, and everyone always is down to, so I feel like the asshole or cheapskate if I say no. However, it's getting so out of hand and taking a toll on my bank account. For example, in the last few months, these are all gifts that I contributed to among my friend groups. Someone's dog died. Someone graduated a continuing education program. Someone had a third baby. Someone had a miscarriage. Someone bought

a new home. Someone got dumped. Someone broke their leg while skiing. It seems never ending. So am I the insensitive one for not wanting to contribute to all these events? And how would I even go about getting out of it in the future if I'm the only one who backs out? I also don't want to sound bitter. but I, for better or for worse, haven't had any huge life events that have warranted a gift. So I've never been on the receiving end. Any input would be appreciated sign. Gifts are not my love language, betch. I like this email.

Yeah. I think it's a tough one because I get it. On the one hand, I'm like, these all do sound like things that would be nice to get a little care package for. They're not like, you know, we've said it on this podcast. It's like you shouldn't just get a gift for getting married or having a baby. You should get nice to get a gift for graduating a continuing education program or a nob dog or whatever your dog dies, whatever it is. Right. So I do think like it's really sweet that there are these things in place.

I do get where you're like, I haven't had any of these events and it just feels like it doesn't feel, I'm not getting the feeling, that good feeling that you get when you do something nice for someone. I think that happens a lot in group gifts where you're like kind of just, it's not, there's not that much thought. going into it, at least on your part. You're just kind of like benmoing someone. Yeah. And then it's done. And I don't know how much she's being asked to contribute. But I can also see that being annoying.

I also think that like the group gift mentality is something that I find a little annoying also. Like I think that as you get older, it's nice to be able to make your own choice as to what you're getting, how much you're spending. And also like, I feel like when you're getting a gift from one person as opposed to a group, you're feeling more connected to that one person. Right. Yeah, I could see that perspective.

Although part of me, I kind of like the idea of the group gift. What I've always appreciated and I feel like the school does this more now for like a teacher gift, will they'll be like, we're getting a teacher gift, Vembo what you can. So it's not like everyone give $25. It's like send what you think is appropriate. So maybe if that month, you're a little. gosh. I'm like, because that could be a range of anything. It could be a range of anything, but then that's what the gift will be.

So like if let's say there's, you know, six people in the friend group and like she gives $5. Right. So like if six people each give $5, then that's what you get. You get a $30 gift card to Target, you know, whatever it is or like a $30 plant or whatever you guys decide to give, that's what it is. If you happen to have a few people who either, one, have a little extra money that month for whatever reason, or two, they feel a specific connection to the event, I think sometimes. Like, even the example of like the graduated from a continuing education program, like, that's the one that you could easily be like, that's ridiculous. But

I love that. Like, I personally would be like what you said before. it shouldn't just be marriages and babies that are celebrated. Like this is something maybe they didn't get to graduate law school, but should they be less celebrated by their friends because they graduated a continuing education program that maybe was challenging for them or a lifelong dream in some way? So maybe I would feel personally like this is something I feel strongly about. So I'm going to give like whatever it is, 50 or $100 on that gift. But someone else is like, that's stupid.

I'm giving five. Sure. Yeah. Or a person that you, or you feel closer to within the group. Yes. Also that you like feel. And it's tough because you know the person's not going to know how much if you gave more or you gave less,

but that's good when you want to give less. And it's nobody knows who's giving what. And if that month you happen to be a little or you don't think it, you think it's a stupid reason or you don't feel exactly. I think that nobody's going to know who's giving what. Here's the gift. Maybe it's a $30 gift or maybe it's a $300 gift. Yeah.

Whatever it is, it is. Yeah. No, I like that. I think we've done that, actually, if you're not going on The Bachelorette. Usually someone. You want to contribute to, like, the decorations or something. Send them a drink or send them something. And, like, you can.

And I remember some of these where I was like, you're not going on a Bachelorette because I'm not, like, friends with her, really. I was like, I just invited. So, like, I don't really want to give $50 for this thing. I'll give $20. And, you know, if you rest, if you want to give $50, that's fine. I think I've said that in certain instances. Good for you.

Yeah. But it's like if it's your best friend's bachelorette and you couldn't make it, that's a situation where you might give $100 or something. So I do think, yeah, it's a little awkward to say to someone. But I also think if you text the organizer on the side, you could say like, I've looked at my budget. This is like this is the amount I can contribute. Right. And then I think she, yeah, she could feel like she's not saying no. She could send 10 bucks. She's not saying no, I'm not contributing or even a. if she needed to send $5, whatever. Like, I'm not not contributing, but I'm not contributing $100 or $50 or whatever feels like

too much for her. She could also try to start this trend by being like, I'm organizing the gift for, you know, Lauren, everyone send me whatever you feel like sending. And I'll pick the gift based on how much money we get. Yes. Yeah, she could model that. Yeah, I like that idea. Yeah, take it.

You kind of have to like start the bandwagon and people might be appreciative of that. I think the other way to look at this, because it does feel like she's like, I haven't gotten any of these things is like, that's kind of nice that your grandma didn't die or, you know, you didn't break your leg skiing. It is, you don't really need it right now or something like that. Your time will come. Time will come. Would you rather be the one getting the condol. No one, like, wishes someone to die so they can get a condolence gift. Right.

Totally. Yeah. I think she realizes it. But I think it's just kind of like. feels like there's no return on investment yet. But yeah, I like this question. I do think it can feel, especially if you have a large friend group and then you have like all these other coworkers. It can become a lot. Yeah. Don't try to stop the group gifts before you cashed in. The next one could be you. It could be minutes away from being the recipient. Yes. Maybe just either like you said,

modeling that or texting the organizer and saying, hey, I'm sure that. this month, I can send you $10. You don't have to opt out, but you don't have to, you know, you could spend as much as you'd spend on like a cup of coffee and a muffin, you know. Yeah, no, I agree. So it's the thought that counts. It's the gesture. Yeah. Okay. Let's do some intentions. I'll read it. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordan. I've been an oversharing listener since the very beginning, and I can't think of anyone else I'd rather get some advice from. Love that. I recently got engaged, yay. And I'm so happy enjoying this period of bliss that my fiance and I, find ourselves in. As we begin to think about what we want, our wedding to be like, and feel like

I've been getting a little sad. I never imagined having a big wedding and party with hundreds of people. I came from a small family. We immigrated to the U.S. when I was little, and I have no close ties to my extended family who still live abroad. I'm so close with my parents and siblings and have a handful of really close friends that I love and cherish. But my fiance comes from bigger family, lots of aunts, uncles, and cousins on both sides. Family friends, camp friends, childhood friends, and lots of appointments. As we've begun wedding planning, I'm actually getting excited about having a bigger wedding, planning a really fun reception and celebrating with lots of loved ones. However, when I think about the fact that I only have about 20 to 30 people total to invite and my fiance has a list of

over 80 people just off the top of his head, it makes me really sad, partially because it brings up lifelong feelings of grieving my lack of relationships with extended family and all the sadness that comes with immigrating, and partially because I know I'll feel really uncomfortable by the fact that 75% of our wedding guests will not be from my side. I've come to know and really like many of my fiance's friends and family members, but it still feels really sad that I don't have more family members or a wider network of friends and acquaintances to also share in our celebration. I really appreciate your help in setting an intention for when these thoughts creep in and how I can enjoy wedding planning without feeling sad over what I can't control. Thank you so much. I'm my own something blue. Aw.

Yeah, this is hard. I think it brings up a little bit of what we don't like to talk about, which is that sometimes we can, if we have a wound or something that we're dealing with, like sometimes our partner having that thing that we want can make us feel a little jealous or lacking or sad or. Yeah. Resentful. resentful like it's normal i've seen this a lot like if you have a you know you don't have a close-knit family and you marry marry someone with a very close-knit family and you're spending all this time with their family and you feel jealous and or you're friends sometimes people have more friends on one side of the relationship yes and then it almost feels like you're kind of swallowed up by

this this other person's life that's how it feels and i do think there's this big component of like the grief around not staying connected to her extended family, having immigrated, so like kind of starting over in some ways where maybe she doesn't have like elementary school friends or, you know, whatever a lot of people might, I don't know when she moved here, but having to have left her base where she started from. And that is really sad. I think it's, it's pretty life changing and maybe just makes her feel like different. Unpopular or something. Right. And you know what I mean? Like, because weddings do feel like this time to like cash in on all your people you've met throughout life that are important to you. So I can understand how that aspect of it can feel like, oh, I'm doing like a body count.

And there's. And again, I think 20 to 30 people that are like close enough to invite to a wedding is like a great amount. Yes. A lot of people who would be thrilled to not have to feel like they have to invite some cousin's wife or something like that. Right. Like they don't really speak to. Also, like, assuming those 20 to 30 are actually meaningful parts of your life, I don't think that the 80 people that her fiance are talking about off the top of her head are all, like, people who are super, super close to them. Maybe they are, but it seems unlikely.

Yeah. But I would, I would share this with your partner. Like I always say, weddings are really great time to, like, clean out some of the muck underneath, whether it's like in-laws or finances or just acknowledge. that you feel a little jealous or acknowledging that you feel that you have this grief over leaving your extended family behind or not staying in touch with them, which I think can be, that's hard. Like you left when you were a kid. It really probably wasn't in your hands to maintain that connection.

So could you have reached out as an adult? Probably you didn't. Life took over. Like if there's any feelings of guilt there or regret there or, you know, whatever that. I just think it would be important to share with him. I'm even at the risk of it feeling like you're not excited or you're not happy for him that he has all these people. Like I think you have to find a way to share this so that you're not feeling alone in it.

You're acknowledging it to this partner that's going to be your life partner that you want to be able to share everything with. Right. And I think if she can do that, then she can hopefully lean into one of the benefits of joining lives, which is you get all these friends, you get all this family. You know, whether it's, I've seen couples where, again, like maybe one has like a distant family relationship or dysfunctional family and then they marry into a really nice, loving family. And at first it feels like you want to reject that. But if you can go through the process of like discussing

it with your partner and sharing in your sadness and your grief and your loss on what you don't have, you can come out of it kind of being like, like, okay, now I can appreciate the fact that I have this really healthy mother figure in my life that I never had or, you know, all these people that love me and want to have a relationship with me. But I think you have to do the first thing. Right. First. Sort of like accept and process that you don't have that currently.

Yeah. Which maybe she didn't even notice bothered her until this came up, which is why weddings are like this moment where some, all of your. like deep hidden stuff tends to come up that you didn't even realize was there. And relationships with everyone seem to be like analyze it's like a good time to analyze every relationship and again take stock of who is in your life. Yeah. Yes.

And fears about money and finances and future. And this is coming up for a reason. It's good. It's good for you guys to talk about it. Connect on it. And then hopefully you can because I think she envisions being at this wedding and enjoying all of his side, friends and family and all that. So the intention that I wrote was along these lines, I will allow and share my grief and also allow these new connections to begin

to fill the void. Love it. Totally. And look, anyone out there who's in this phase of life where you're planning a wedding and these issues with your partner, whether they're silently unspoken, your own feelings or they're big fights arguments that you guys are having. Like, this is information. So if you choose to stay stuck and dig your heels in the mud about what you want or how you want it to go or I would step back and try to figure out like, what do I need to share here? What are my vulnerabilities here?

What am I afraid of and use it as an opportunity to connect more deeply with your partner? Agreed. All right. Well, good luck. Let's do some triggers. We are not keeping anything battled up, and neither is Angry Orchard, our sponsor for today's episode. Angry Orchard is here to shake things up by sponsoring our Triggered segment, helping you guys

get that sweet release. Whether it's a petty annoyance or a full-on rage spiral, your feelings deserve to be felt, and then let go. Write or call in and tell us what you're triggered about this week, and we'll help you uncap all the feelings. All right. Why don't you read our first triggered? All right.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. I just had an encounter with a friend that was very minor but triggered me. My friend and I were talking about getting dinner next weekend. I mentioned this new restaurant that opened up in our neighborhood that has daily happy hour from 5 to 7 p.m. And they have five stars on Yelp. As I was saying how it's so awesome, they have a patio and five or six dollar cocktails, et cetera.

My friend goes, you're so funny. You really love happy hours in this kind of condescending tone. I responded back, well, who wouldn't like paying less for a drink and dinner? She said, well, you just really like them. It felt like such a shutdown of the conversation and just rub me the wrong way. Like if we can't get excited about a $5 margarita in this day and age, what can we get excited for? Also, we go out to dinner, coffee, et cetera, all the time.

So it's not like I only go to places with happy hours, L.O.L. Anyway, I hope this makes sense. Looking forward to hearing your take, happy but now annoyed. I this is triggering she's definitely being called cheap yes it sounds like pretty clear that she's that's what's being insinuated it's not like a traumatic insult but it is i'm sure like that's something she was like that you have to think about it'd be like oh am i cheap do i am i obsessed with discounts am i like only talking about like price of things and i mean i do this sometimes where if i think i went on a group trip with my friends where we were like at a hotel and i was like

I cannot believe it's $32 for this guacamole. It's just like crazy. And my other friend was like, are you going to talk about the prices? Just like the whole trip, are you going to talk with my new prices? Like, we're here. Yes. It's happening. So I can relate to her in feeling like a little bit more excited when things are well priced or a little bit like compulsively checking things. Yes. Yes. When my friend said that, I was like, I guess I should shut up. I don't know. Yeah. I guess it is the price. Like the price is the price or, you know, I feel her. I get it. I totally feel her too. And I have had that thought of like, oh, it seems almost like an easy thing to bond on. Like everyone likes to not spend as much money for an item. And we are collectively like spending this money together. So it seems almost like an easy topic of conversation. You know, like we both.

or have the same interest. And here's a thing that we can, you know, feel away about. The other thing that I think is particularly like making her feel triggered, in addition to being called cheap, is this idea, anytime you like come at someone like excited and that person is almost like, you like chill out. Like what are you so excited about? Like it almost feels like really shameful and.

Yeah. I don't know if that's like, I don't know exactly what that is or where it's like, even if it wasn't being excited about a happy hour, if you were just like, Is it how you felt about the telepathie? Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Although I was like shameless about it.

I was like so into it that that one was kind of shameless. But something like, I don't know if you're like excited that like a new episode is coming out of a show and someone's kind of like. Like there's something cool about being aloof. Like there's something cooler about like not getting that excited about things. Not being super earnest. Yeah. Like maybe that comes from like a middle school high school thing where you're like,

oh my God, my mom's getting us ice cream. And they're like, ugh. What ice cream? Like whatever. We don't even eat ice cream anymore. Right. Yeah. Like there's something there about like being more excited about something than

someone else that makes you kind of feel like ashamed. So I think that's a component. Right. And maybe your friend kind of does think you're a little cheap and this was like her chance to like kind of say that in a passive aggressive way. Right. Which is like fine. That's the case. That's the case. Maybe you're a little cheap. Own it. I mean, I, that's what I'm saying. I do that. Like when I'm like, yeah, I'm a little compulsive about like looking at checking prices. Checking prices. Okay. Yeah. Is that my finest quality? Is that like the most fun thing to do when you're already out at the table and you're already sitting there. Right.

No. But she wasn't even saying like, oh, my God, the guacamole is $32. She was like, yay. Right. This is a good thing. That makes it worse. I agree. It does make it worse because it's like if you want to find a little excitement and a bargain,

like everyone's finding their little excitements in life in different ways. I mean, I always bring up the Black Friday example where it's like it's socially acceptable for everybody to like trample each other on Black Friday to save like 15% on a television. But like what's the difference between that and being excited about the happy hour? Like everyone's kind of, you know, hunting and gathering their own little joyful finds in their own way. And if finding a happy hour gives her a little, like she said, if this is like a little joyful moment for me, great. you know what, you got to rain on her parade. But yeah, this has probably been brewing for a minute.

I could see why. Right. Would you say something to the friend? No, not really. Right. Probably not. I mean, the best way around those things is to just like own it. Like next time there's be like, you know I love a happy hour.

Nothing excites me more than not paying full price for drinks. I think if you own something, it loses all of its like sting. Totally. I almost like to make fun of myself before I get made fun of. Right. Yeah. I like that strategy. You like a happy hour.

It's okay. The thing is you get to experience that little moment of excitement that she doesn't. So like there's a win for you. Like you got an extra moment of joy and excitement that this other person didn't. So that feeling of like you're a loser for being excited about something. like I feel triggered by that whole like concept because it's like isn't the whole point of all of this to like have joy and be happy and enjoy life like all of it you can be joyful or cool pick your state of mind I'd give it a I'd give it like a five it's pretty condescending

yeah I would I would agree with that I mean it it was so like subtle and just you know passive aggressive, which could make it feel like a lower rating, but I think we all see through. Yeah. I would agree. Maybe she was in a bad mood. Who knows? All right. I'll do our last one. I have a triggered scenario that I'm curious to see how you would rate it on the triggered scale. My boyfriend and I've been together for six years. My birthday is coming up and I let my boyfriend know that I wanted a gift on time and that I wanted to feel special on the day. All right. She's giving him the answers to the test. I feel like I always put in. a big effort when I'm getting gifts for him, and I wanted that energy to reciprocate it. Last year, I sent him what I wanted with a link, and I gave him enough time to order it,

and for it to ship and time for my birthday, and he got it a month late. I told him that it really bothered me, and that this year I really wanted it on time. Getting gifts for me has been an issue in the past. He often gets things that I like but are more of a joint gift for both him and I, since we have a lot of similar interests, making me feel like he really just got it for himself, or you will put gifts for me on the joint card. I mentioned in the past that putting a gift for me on the joint card is not really fair since I'm kind of paying for the gift myself. The way that we split our finances, I'm currently the one paying the joint card while he covers other bills based on our uneven salaries.

So it sounds like she's paying for the gift entirely herself. Our joint card is supposed to be used for purchases that are for the joint household purchases like grocery estates together, etc. We each have our own cards that we can make separate purchases on. I was looking through the joint card today and I noticed a charge for eBay that I'm 90% sure is my birthday gift. I know that I should be happy that he thought of me and bought something and that it's at least going to be on time this year. But how triggered can I be that he essentially made me pay for my own birthday gift? Thanks, a birthday fetch. This guy sounds like a scrub.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He kind of sounds like he sucks. I'm like, I'm sorry to be the bearer. but this is like shitty. Like this is like,

this is almost like insulting because she's been so clear. Yeah, you already told him. You already told him both things. Please don't put it on the joint card and just make sure it's on time. A month late on a birthday gift is unacceptable. Yeah.

Three days. Unless he's getting a custom portrait drawn of you, it has to be so good to make up for it. It can't be like, here are these. you know, socks that I wanted that are right. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, month late is unacceptable. I would rather for her sake that she get like the tiniest, cheapest gift that he puts on his own card. Yes. And thinks of himself and like shows it. It's kind of like she's basically like I want to feel special on this day. It is very important to me. And that's why I think this relationship is in

trouble, sorry to say it, but like, you've been very explicit. This is what would make me happy. Here are the keys to the happiness. Here's direct instructions. And he does not seem to give up because he's really putting in the bare, like literally she sent him a link. Yeah. So easy. Just put it on your own card. Right. So easy. A lot of people be like, I don't want to have to spoon feed you this, like figure it out. She's not doing that. She's spoon. feeding him all the information of exactly what he does and doesn't want. Maybe it's not the gift. Maybe you're overthinking it.

Maybe he bought something for the house on eBay and your gift is going to be on his card. Honestly, I think this is a little bit dumpable. Yeah. I mean, it's six, six years. But I think what you're saying is it's probably indicative of a lack on his end of being able to like listen to her hear what she's saying and act accordingly which is a bigger put an effort into the relationship i think that's like but that's the bigger conversation is like i'm asking you for the smallest amount of effort and you don't seem to care enough to do it yeah i don't know

if that's the psychologically healthy way to do it but you're putting in less than the bare minimum because i told you the bare minimum that i wanted and you're still not doing that right and It's important to me to have someone that makes me feel special, especially on a birthday. I mean, stereotypically, if we're talking about like a male in a relationship, it makes them almost nervous because there's like a lot at stake. It's like a big chance and it can go really well or it can go really poorly. And I think for some people, the birthday gift is a big deal because it's kind of like, this is your chance. you knew the test was coming. Yes.

You had all year to prepare. The world is your oyster. There's millions of websites. This is your chance. Price ranges. Cards. This is your chance to show me that you're listening to me this whole time and that you care and you're putting some effort into our relationship. And when that goes poorly, and I have seen this dynamic where it's like, I told you two years ago.

I told you last year. Almost like for some people, if you fuck it up again, it's going to be a big problem. And then sometimes they fuck it up again and you're at this point. They've been together six years. Am I going to end this over a birthday gift? Because it sounds crazy. But if you think about what it really means, I don't think it's crazy. It sounds crazy to be like, I dumped him because he bought this gift on a joint card that I paid.

for. But I don't think that's crazy. I think that's indicative of someone who's putting less than minimal effort into a relationship that you are trying to, that is one-sidedly trying to be worked on. She wouldn't care that much about the birthday gift if appreciation was happening all year. That's my hunch. I could be wrong. I think the people that really care about how their partner treats their birthday, oftentimes there's an underlying underappreciation in the relationship. So where the birthday gift is the opportunity for the birthday person to be like, okay, great. They really do love me. They really do care. I feel better. I'm going to stay for another year. Rea. You got me in for another year. Or it can go the other way, which is like,

this is an indication that I'm not receiving what I want in this relationship. So I do think that when you really care about your birthday in this way and that sometimes it's like you're not getting it on the daily basis, which I think is a better way to show affection like monthly or weekly or daily versus like this once a year and now it's this huge pressure to do it right. I mean, it's crazy. She's basically, she's paying for her own gift that she picked out the link to. It's like insane. I'd be like, do you want me to break up with you? Right.

That seems like you almost something you would do if you wanted someone to break up with you. Yeah. Yeah, maybe there is some little rebellion going on there. Yeah. You know, like a month late on a birthday gift last year. And now this year she's giving him specific instructions and he's not doing it. Maybe there is something on his end where he's not like appreciating her or he doesn't. He maybe has some resentment or he doesn't have the courage to speak.

what he's actually thinking, perhaps. Yeah. And so he's almost being like incompetent in hopes that she, she's the one who does something. It's kind of sad if you think about it. Like she's setting the ball on the tea and like making it so easy. And then he's still not doing it. It's like she wants to prove to herself,

I think that he loves her and he's appreciating her. And he's like caretaking this relationship. And he's not even like, you know, just giving it the bat a little swing. Yeah. I mean, I'd wait till a birthday. Make sure it's the, make sure this is the eBay gift in question. Right. And then I would have a serious discussion about this relationship. I'd give this like an eight. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I'll give it. I'll give it a seven. I do think because she said it and she, yeah, for all the reasons. But if it happens and it really is on the joint card when you've specifically asked him not. to do that. I think you should take the curious approach instead of like getting mad and like is to kind of be like it seems like there's something that it almost feels like an intentional withholding of romance. Like I think that's kind of what you almost. It's almost like you want a romantic gesture or like you want a gesture of appreciation or thoughtfulness. Like it seems like you're

intentionally withholding. I've seen couples where just, And I agree. But I've seen couples where almost like the guy buys a gift at some point on his own in this enthused romantic way in the beginning of the relationship. And she doesn't like it for some reason. It's not her taste. She doesn't like the gift. Sure.

And the rejection of that, again, it's like, I'm so excited to give you this gift. Yay, I picked it out all by myself. And then ill received, I think, can be. be such a rejection that there's almost like an underlying resentment that continues from that. Like now I'm not going to buy you anything. Now I'm never again going to like put myself out there to buy you something. Do you think that's that's been his issue because she didn't like the joint gifts, the gifts that he was getting for both of them essentially? Maybe. Perhaps he felt like rejected somewhere along the line. So that's why I would approach it with a little bit of curiousness of like

something about this like you said almost feels like. intentional. Like it almost feels like I'm telling you exactly what to do when you're not doing it. He's trying to exert some power or express something. There's something that feels like he's not just being aloof. I don't think it's okay to express something passive aggressively if that is the case and he is feeling that and that's why he's doing it. I still don't think that's okay. But it would be at least foster more of a conversation. I agree with you very hard in practice to open up your gift that you know you paid for. And be like, this is so interesting that you bought this gift this way.

It almost feels like, I'm wondering what you're trying to say with this gift. Right. It would be hard. I think that would, that's the move because you also, the person who's comest in any argument, I think is the winner. Give it a try. I'd love to know. Yeah.

I mean, even if she can't do it right at first, whatever, she wants to get mad. I knew it. I told. I knew. Even if that's her first reaction, I think she can come back to it maybe like a day later or two days later and be like, I really have been thinking about it. And it feels like maybe there's more to it here for you. This is such a sticking point for us. Agreed. All right. Well, give it a shot. We'll settle on a seven and a half. I would love an update on this one. Please send it up.

Yes. Yes. I want to know if the eBay gift was actually for you and how you handle it. Please let us know. Oh, hey, guys, this reminds me of the segment that I wanted to introduce. if you guys are interested in this segment, I think it would be really fun for us is like you submit either an issue that you're having with someone or a text that has been triggering or a really difficult text to answer and we will help you answer that text in a psychologically healthy way or draft a text to someone who's been bothering you

in a psychologically healthy way. So email us oversharing at betches.com. So give us some background on the issue, either send us a screenshot or give us, you know, just some background, what you would like help crafting this text message for. And we will help you craft it to send to someone who you are having a contentious interpersonal relationship with. Yes, love it. Can't wait to see what you guys come up with. I love this. I do pride myself in being pretty good. Like I said, in my archaic verbal brain that has been very trained to use the power of the word,

I'm pretty good. I think you are too with this type of thing. So we can help some people. You're better. I think my, you know, I've written many a text angrily and then deleted and then wait a second and then redone. I think this would be a really good exercise and would probably really help the listeners to respond in a way that, you know, de-escalates a situation instead of escalates it. And I've never received a text from you where I've been like, fuck that bitch. So I assume that you're very good at that. well. Totally. And look, even if you want to send us your like unfiltered text, which might be very entertaining. Oh, that's good. We can revise. We can revise. So tell us what you kind of just

want to say and we'll help you clean it up a little bit. Clean up my text. That's good. Yeah. Clean up my text. Okay. All right. Sounds good. Let Angry Orchard help you celebrate the sweet release. What better way to toast to that relief than with the crisp, refreshing flavor of Angry orchard made with real fruit, two apples in every 12 ounce can or bottle. It's your life. It's the bold beverage that keeps it real. I love angry orchard. It really feels like I am sipping a fresh from the orchard beverage, bold, flavorful, crisp, absolutely the perfect way to enjoy a delicious cider. Don't get angry. Get orchard. Learn more. find a hard cider near you at angry orchard.com slash locations.

Follow Angry Orchard on Instagram at at Angry Orchard. All right, that's our time. Great work today. Betches.