Oversharing - Can I Confront My Friend About Her Personality Flaws?

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

This week, Jordana tells Dr. Naomi about her recent “brain flossing” attempt, and they discuss a listener’s recent experience of feeling shamed by a neighbor. Our Overshare comes from a conflict-avoidant Betch who needs to have an uncomfortable conversation with a friend. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener pondering the ethics of “line guys” and gaming the concert ticket system. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for flight anxiety in light of recent plane crashes in the news. And, in our “Sweet Release” segment sponsored by Angry Orchard, we’re feeling triggered by employers that infringe on evening plans and unwanted input on relationship timelines. If you’d like to get these episodes a day early and ad-free, plus two bonus episodes per month where we answer more emails and have follow-up conversations with listeners for real-time advice, make sure to subscribe at subscribe.betches.com! Check out our episodes under the Oversharing playlist at YouTube.com/@betches Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We've all been thinking about how annoying you are. And I'm the one who has to tell you about it. A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham.

And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. Welcome back. I finally tried the 8D audio. Oh, right. Yeah. I did like one song. They have Taylor Swift on there. So I did, you need to calm down, which I thought was apt.

Right. I couldn't decide if it, like, if it felt really cool. Like, I did think it did. Or if I just liked the song. So I might try it with like a non-familiar song or like a, like a, they have non-music on there. you said right yeah like just you know ethereal tones or um they do have ones that are just like back and forth pinging okay that's a little bit more intense like that's if you're trying to

basically do like EMDR on yourself kind of thing um and that can does can make people a little bit more anxious but it's almost like with a purpose of reducing longer term anxiety in the moment. It can feel a little bit more anxiety provoking. So for you, I think I would recommend try something that's just like, you know, like spa music, like that kind of thing. And then I had a couple questions. One, you need to listen with headphones, right? Ideally, I think your cell phone will kind of bounce back and forth, but it's not going to be the same as headphones. Yes. So that was a question. And then do you need to not be doing anything? Can you be taking a walk? Can you be like doing household chores like like what's the uh yeah i mean i guess it depends what you're looking for

right i think there is like a um a more intense protocol where you're drawing to mind something anxiety provoking again this started as like a treatment for PTSD EMDR you can do it as like i'm going to think of something anxiety provoking i wouldn't recommend doing EMDR and yourself around big trauma. So I'll put that out there. This is more like, I have a sticky thought. I'd like to not think about this thing anymore. I'm going to draw to mind this thought. And as I draw to mind this thought, I'm going to listen to this bilateral stimulation. Or some people just like the way it feels. Got it. Yeah. I didn't do the thing where I bring the anxious thought to mind. So maybe that's also another part of it. I didn't try to do that. Yeah. So you can, I would, I wouldn't do that necessarily with Taylor Swift.

I guess it could, but I think I would do that more with like the tones and, you know, the, just the kind of like ethereal type music. But some people, so there's two ways that you can use this. One is like, I have this sticky thought. I want this. I want to like let go a little bit of this. And another one is like some people just really like it. Like it just feels like the brain flossing, like a relaxing kind of like clearing out

the tubes. Right. tubes being like the neural pathways in your brain kind of thing. Where you don't have to think of a traumatic thought. Okay. Yeah. And again, I will say don't, I would not recommend that people. Not serious trauma.

Not just like. Yeah, try to process serious trauma on their own. I would do that with a professional EMDR therapist. Right. It sounds like you would do that for a situation like the shed your shame one, which we're about just about to read. That seems like the perfect kind of situation to do the 8D audio thing. But I'm going to try it.

I have a plane. I'm taking a plane on Wednesday. I always find planes are like the perfect place to try out this kind of thing, especially like if you don't have Wi-Fi because you're like, might as well have nothing better to do. Yeah.itation on a plane is great because you're sitting upright. You know, you have your time to yourself. You have not much else to do. I love it. I think that's a great idea. Yeah. And we have some stuff around fear of flying as well coming up. So that might be helpful for that too. Yeah.

Great episode for that. And we didn't get a ton of submissions for shutting your shame. I'll be honest. Didn't see a ton. People liked the concept, but I haven't seen that many people submit theirs. But we did get one. And I wanted to share because I thought it was, I thought it was pretty good. Yes.

I loved it. It's like the perfect thing where it's like literally nothing happened. You're good. everyone's good, but you feel this like huge shame around this thing. Twinge of embarrassment, like whenever you think of it. Yeah. And sticky. And those thoughts get really sticky.

Like, just keep kind of popping up in your mind. And I get why people don't want to submit them because it does feel like I just kind of want to, a lot of them are like not so big that you're kind of just like, let me just pretend it didn't happen. Yes. And I kind of, you know what I mean? I feel that way about, I'm like, why am I going to like write? Why would I write in about something or why would I like keep like. I'm trying to like forget that this happened by just suppressing it instead of, you know. Yes, it almost feels like I'm like bringing it back up again when I want to let it go.

Right. But if it's coming up anyway. Yeah. Tell us. Tell us. And normalize it for everyone else. I can't wait to normalize this for this person. All right.

Let's read it. All right. Go for it. All right. My shame story from last week, I was dropping my son off at daycare when I realized the door code had been changed and my phone was still in the car. It had snowed the day before and the parking lot was a sheet of ice and I was parked in one of the further spots. I decided to leave him at the door, which is behind a gate, rather than try to get him back to the car and then back to the door again.

He'd slipped three times getting to the door the first time. It took me maybe 45 seconds to get there and back. He had his coat on too. As I walked back up to the door, I overheard a grandmother say, wow, did your mom just leave you here? And I said, I know I just needed to get the door code and I didn't want him to slip on the ice. And she gave me a pretty judgy look. I felt bad, but I also felt like he was safer at the door rather than on the ice. Ice mom. Yeah.

I could see the guilt because she got it from someone else. Like I think if no one had noticed and no one had seen, she wouldn't be thinking about this at all. It would have been fine. She would have gotten back. Right. She was close enough to hear her say it, which is also kind of annoying. Right. And I don't think this is that shameful.

Like I feel like, I mean, I'm not a parent, but I would imagine a lot of parenting is like making these kinds of decisions all the time. Where it's like, what's the bigger risk? What's the thing that's going to get me through this moment? Like kind of mitigating risk and assessing constantly. A hundred. A hundred percent. I remember the first time when I, I like, ordered smoothies. to go, like they're, they're ordered, they're ready to pick up. I just had to like run into the place and like

get them and bring them into the car. And I was leaving like one of the kids in the car. And I'm like going through the scenarios of like what could happen? Could they like unbuckle themselves and like lock the door and then I won't be able to like where the keys and there are. And you know, it's just like you're going through a million scenarios and it's totally like most of the time. It's totally. It's totally. totally fine. They're like secured. And even if this kid was behind a gate and it was 45 seconds. But yeah,

there's all these tons of them. Like even Jeff and I have been experimenting with leaving Lila and Maddie, the two older girls, to babysit while we go out for dinner. Ooh. Yeah, I mean. A whole new world. Lila's going to be 13.

Yeah, she's about to be 13. Maddie's 11. there's two of them. So we've been experimenting with that, but I'm like, you know, I'm sure if somebody came in and said, like,

how could you or like. Well, if something bad happened, then like it's, oh, and because also the other thing is like you never, like she walks us through her whole mental like calculation, right? Yes.

But when you see someone else do it, you don't get that. So you just kind of assume that whatever, the worst thing that they, be thinking is, which is like, for you, I want to go out to eat more than I care about my daughter's safety. Like they assume that was the calculation in your mind. Right. Yes. But that's not the case or for here. The woman's like, oh, they just, she didn't even, she couldn't even be bothered with you. Right. So she left you at the door. Like, you just get the worst. And sometimes I

think like to give some grace to those people, like sometimes you do have that thought when you see a kid who sometimes you see a mom and a kid who's screaming or the parent who's like yelling at them in a way where you're like that seems like a little extreme. Right. And I think if you can think it, there's no like thought police. Like I don't think you could police people's thought. I think it's okay to like judge someone in your head. But to say it out loud is like an entirely different scenario. Yes. Or the kindest thing and I think about this a lot because I've been a mom for a lot of years, like if I saw a kid that, like, and I've been there, like, we go to these big pack gyms with all these people and sometimes I'll see like a little toddler kind of like walking

around and you don't realize that if the parents there or not, like, I'll just kind of help out. Like, I'll just see the kid and I'll stand with the kid for a little bit without making a judgey comment about it. Right. And see if I can like look around and find the mom. And like, I'll help keep an eye on the kid for a second while I'm trying. to figure out whose kid it is without having to make that comment that's going to make her feel bad, you know, like just kind of jump in. If you're really concerned and you're the grandma and you're standing there without a kid, just stand there for a minute and like, be like, oh, okay, maybe there's a mom that needs a little help for a second. Right. And I think, you know what, it actually, I feel like

because it's a grandma and maybe not a mom, there's maybe she doesn't do this all the time. So there's less of a feeling of like knowing what that constant calculation is. Totally. I would imagine you're more judgey of something that you're not currently in and doing constantly than this is your one day to drop the kid off. And you're like, whoa, well, like this seems who would do this? Right. Yeah.

And I think when you're in that mindset of like looking at someone else and like you said, you'll have that thought where you look at someone else and you're like, whoa, like think, maybe have that thought of like, this isn't good or they're not a good mom. And I think it's helpful in that moment. And this is for me or for you or for anyone who sees that, you notice that you have that thought. And then you're kind of like, they're struggling right now. Like some, this may, this might just be like a state situation rather than a trait situation. Like right. There's like a situational bias. Yeah. Remember that from AP psych. Yes. There's like a where you're like, is this who this mother is or is she just having a hard time?

in this moment or father, whoever it is, like, I really think it's a kindness. And I've done that when I see moms that are like their kids are just acting wild and crazy and tantruming. And I know the fear is people are judging me. They think I have no control over my kid or, you know, if you have to like grab them by the arm and like drag them out of some place. Like I know everyone's so fearing that judgment that like sometimes I'll just go up and be like, you got this like you're good like you're doing a good job like you know something that's just like

I see you but like of course everyone sees you like let's be honest right we all see what's happening here but I'm not thinking bad thoughts about you so like I think if we can all put that energy out into the world a little bit yeah I'm telling you it's the it's the priest study like the priests help the people who fell down when they are not in a rush right Right. If you have a couple extra minutes, you have a little extra gas in your tank, be the grandma, whoever that was, that's just like, you know what, I'm going to stand here with this kid for a second and just like non-judgmentally, see if there's a mom somewhere or dad somewhere that needs some help. Right. So I hope you can let go of this because I probably would have done the same thing. I think a lot of people would, especially if he's like behind the gate. I mean, what's going to happen? Yeah. This doesn't feel.

like that. I wouldn't beat yourself up over this one. Shed your shame. We shed it for you. Exactly. We did it. And if you have any more, if you want to shed your shame, email us oversharing at Betches.com or you can give us a voicemail. 646363-6294. If you guys have not subscribed yet and you want these episodes ad free and a day early, you can subscribe on subscribe.bethges.com or write on your Apple feed if you listen there. And you get also two bonus episodes a month. One of the episodes, we respond to listener feedback, which usually it's negative listener feedback.

It's your someone writing in something. I'm excited to respond to some of this, the feedback on the episode with the vaccination, with the vaccination and her friend and whether or not you should or shouldn't drop a friend on something like that. I'm glad people are engaged. I'm glad you're listening. We're hearing you. And if you come listen to some of the subscription episodes, we will touch on that for sure.

Yeah. I'm excited to get into that one too. And we also do a, we'll speak to a listener either going through something or who's already been on to give us an update. So these are a lot of fun. And we get into it. And if you want to subscribe, you should definitely subscribe. Or if you want to join one of Dr.

Naomi's therapy groups. It's another way to get involved with the show. Awesome. Yeah, come check it out, Naomi Bernstein.com. And I hope to hear from you. Let's do an overshare. Do you want to read the overshare? I will read this.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, love everything you do. I'm conflict avoidant and need help confronting my best friend without crushing her spirit. My best friend is an incredibly high energy person and I love her deeply, but she dominates conversations to the point where it's exhausting. At a group gathering last night, she spoke 90% of the time, barely letting others contribute unless she asked them direct questions. Her voice is also extremely loud. I even joked a couple of times that she was hurting my ears.

I could sense her mutual friends felt drained, but we all want to accept her for who she is. Lately, I've started to feel resentment about this, but I don't know how to address it with love and compassion, especially because she's very sensitive. Should I bring it up in a private, heartfelt conversation? Or should I try to gently redirect in the moment saying something like, hey, wait, I want to hear what Jenny has to say. The problem is I have a quieter personality and it's hard for me to speak up. I don't want to hurt her, but I also feel like it's unfair to silently resent her dominant behavior. After her mom, I'm the number one person she calls and she hasn't had much luck with romantic partners,

so I feel a responsibility to love and support her unconditionally. But at what point can I be honest? one additional piece of context. She was recently diagnosed with ADHD, and I actually helped fill out an evaluation form about her behavior, where I rated her the highest possible score on, quote, observing her annoying others. And she saw it.

I felt weird about it, but I reassured her it was my honest assessment and that I still love her. I also have ADHD, but the inattentive type. So I empathize with the complexities that come with being neurodivergent. How do I navigate this conversation in a way that strengthens rather than strains our friendship? Signed socially exhausted batch. Okay. This is a good one because I think our tendency is to just kind of like not bring up

annoying things that people do and then either talk shit about it with others. Yes. Or just be like silently irritated because it just feels like it's just like, it's just easier not to, especially in the moment. Yes. I think her instinct, and I've literally done this, I think, before. And I, you know, like I, as a therapist and a group therapist, I sometimes have to do this. I think her instinct to be like, hang on one second.

I just want to hear what Jenny has to say about that. Or Jenny, what do you think about that? Or like, I think that that might be a good first, like, shot out of the box, just, to try to see if she can subtly, she might, especially if she is, you know, if this is like a ADHD diagnosis and it's like a brain wiring thing, she might just be the type of person that needs that reminder every now and then. And that might be like a non-shameful, just like gentle reminder of let somebody else in. So maybe doing that first and if that doesn't work. And she says she's conflict avoidance. So I could see why she's not the type that's going to.

to be like jumping in and directing the conversation. I would almost be more annoyed, I think, by that. If you were. If I were the friend, I feel like, I would feel like she was like kind of scolding me. Like, because that sounds like something you'd almost say to it. I hear my friends say that to their kids all the time. Right. Mommy's talking.

Like, we don't just talk. We don't just interrupt people when they're in the middle of a conversation. Right. Or something. Like it does feel a little bit like chastising. Yeah. I think it's a way you could do it where you're kind of like, like, oh, Jenny, what do you think?

Or like that kind of thing where you're just like, you're jumping in and asking someone else a question to take it. Yeah, there's a way to subtly do it. I agree. But if you don't address her and you're just like, so what do you think, whatever? Right. I do think the heartfelt private conversation if you're truly like best friends and your friend is someone who's like emotionally mature is a good way to do it.

actually recently did this with a friend and it went really well. Oh, okay. And it wasn't about my interaction with her, but it was about an interaction that I saw her doing with someone else. And I had seen it for a while and I didn't really want to say anything because I was like, first I'm like, I don't know if it's my place because there is a sense.

And so that's why I totally related to the listener where you're like, who am I to tell someone that the way they're interacting with someone is not correct? Right. Right. And if they haven't asked me. Right. Especially if it's like everyone thinks, you know, we, right. Everyone thinks you're really annoying. Like, that's the worst. Totally. And I think that like, that's why I didn't say anything for a long time. And then, I don't know, I kind of felt like I saw an interaction. And then we were, I had a, I was like in a private talk with her. And I was like, do you mind if I, we were on the topic of this other person? And I said,

would you be open if I told you about something that I noticed. Beautiful. About you. Of course she's going to say yes. I could tell in her eyes and her facial expression that she immediately thought it was going to be something horrible. Like she was like nervous. Like what are you going to what are you about to tell me? Yeah.

Like because it does feel like embarrassing. But then I told her the thing and she was like I could totally see. I could totally see that. I don't even. When I was doing that, I wasn't even thinking. But like that's a good point. I'm going to try not to do that anymore. Yeah, that's beautiful.

And now you've built a trust with her that you can have like a difficult conversation with her, which comes back to so much what like even friendship breakups happen because you can't have those conversations. So you just really strengthened your friendship with her. Because now I know it seems like it was a small thing. But right. Now you have a trust that like if I do have a problem, like you're not going to get defensive and get mad and storm out.

And right. And I think if I said it while she was doing it to the other person, I think that would be really embarrassing and really like I don't think that it would have gone the same way. Right. Yes. I totally agree. I think it would if she's going to do it in the moment, it would just have to be like a subtle redirecting versus like maybe the first way I phrase it was like hang on a second. Like I wouldn't even do the hang on a second. Just kind of like, oh, what did you think about that movie or whatever? Another idea that I have is given that she. filled out the ADHD evaluation. And she knows that that question was on there. She could kind of be like, I just wanted to talk to you about that evaluation. Right. I know that I put this thing in there. And, you know, I was concerned that maybe it would hurt your feelings. I wanted to kind of just explain my thought process around that.

So that might be like a little opener. Yeah. To bring up the topic. Because she probably noticed it. Yeah. And like I would certainly notice if my friend. checked annoys others, gave me a five at a five on that.

Right. That would be something I'd want to discuss with them, maybe. And the fact that she saw it and it hasn't like effect, she hasn't noticed it affecting their friendship means like maybe she is a little bit self-aware about that in some way where she wasn't like completely offended. I mean, she's taking the ADHD questionnaire. So clearly she thinks she has something to work on anyway.

So. Yes. Like I agree. that definitely strengthens the friendship. It's not something people are able to do, I think, when they're emotionally immature. Or I don't think my younger self would have been able to do that. But I do think that I agree, it brings you closer. And I think you would want to know if someone was secretly annoyed by your behavior.

I agree. And I think she should do it, especially if it's building resentment. I mean, the other option is if she gets there and she brings it up because I do think if this is just like a personality thing or like part of her neurodivergence, she might not be able to help it. But I think even if she brings it up or addresses it in some way and it doesn't change, you know, it might be a little bit easier to just kind of be like, okay, at these, these are the settings in which I find her kind of annoying.

And so maybe I'll lean into these other settings versus maybe like big group dinners is not where I most enjoy her company. Yeah. And just like accepting her for who she is, but creating some limits on like, because you don't want to continue building resentment to the point where you don't want to be around her at all. Agreed. I would also keep it to like, this is what I noticed, not this is what everyone thinks. Yes.

One, you can't speak for everyone. And two, that's much harder pill to swallow is like, we've all been thinking about how annoying you are. And I'm the one who has to tell you about it. These conversations are hard, but I do think. I'm glad that you're giving that real life example of a conversation that might have been hard that went well and brought you closer. What do you think about asking if you can give them feedback? Is that? I like that. I wasn't sure if that was like too scary of an intro almost. No, I like that. I think some people might be self-aware enough to be like actually like I can't today. Right. I'm not in the state to like be getting negative feedback. Some people might. I think most people are going to be so curious about what you have to say.

that they're going to say yes, even if they're not really in a place to take it. But I do think it's nice to ask because otherwise it's completely unsolicited advice, which is, you know, can be, I could see us getting a triggered scenario with someone who's like, oh, Jordana, my friend just told me she didn't like the way I handled this situation that had absolutely nothing to do with her. That was really annoying. I think that's the way, the only way that it wouldn't go well is if the person just disagrees also with your take, which is possible.

Like she might be like, I don't think that I do that. I don't believe that I do that. Yeah. Yeah. Which, you know, it's a different conversation. That's a whole different. Now you have to decide whether you're going to accept her, whether you're going to change the scenarios in which you hang out with her.

So give us the follow up on this. If you do bring it up and it doesn't go well, we'll help you figure out what your next move is. Right. to our next email. Our batches, do you want to read this one? Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. You've discussed a few different ethical dilemmas

surrounding concert tickets, and I have a new one that I'm interested to hear your take on. You may have heard that Paul McCartney did several intimate pop-up shows in the city this past week. He was announcing them last minute and required individuals to wait on a line down the city street in order to get a ticket. There was only one ticket allotted per customer

and no resale allowed. many people went as far as to camp out overnight. My husband waited in line one of the days and noticed several, quote, line guys waiting in line for other people. It turns out this is a business in New York City. You can actually pay people to wait in line for you. Who knew? He said others waiting in line were very upset by the fact that there were these line guys. But my husband thinks that if they're taking the place for someone else, the person standing behind them wouldn't be any closer anyway.

However, if someone was unable to be there in person, then the line would be shorter. In my opinion, it feels a bit unfair that people are able to still use their wealth to acquire a ticket and cheat the system. I would love to know your thoughts. This is an interesting one. Interesting one. Yeah, I've heard of the line guys. Like I always heard of it like at the passport office.

Like people will hire someone to like wait in line for like a next day passport and then call them when they're like at the front of the line type thing. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard of this for like concert tickets or like they used to have those cronut crazes. I think that was like where they had the big line to. Cronut? This was like in 10 years ago.

There was like a there was like a weird dessert situation where there was this like it was a donut croissant hybrid. And you had to wait in line to like get one. They were like the hottest thing in New York. It was crazy. And people, people were hiring people to wait for the cronuts or you don't know? I think so. I'm, I feel like that was a thing.

That's nuts. It was like a long line to wait for like the special dessert or the Paul McCartney. That's the thing. And part of me is like, yeah, this sucks, right? That someone like, that you have to wait in line and that this other person's not waiting in line and they're just hiring someone. But also like, isn't that, can't you not use money to do, to. to solve many issues that other people can't solve.

Right. Right. Like it sucks that some people have to clean their own house or take the bus. Right. But that's also like kind of the capitalist society that we live in. Yes. Yeah. You can pay to outsource things that save you time.

Yes. It's true. I think it's just a truth bomb that you cannot take that out of this. And I do appreciate these artists that are. kind of like, I want the biggest fans in this room. I want the real diehards. Right. And that's the issue that we had with the Taylor Swift tickets is like,

you want the real, she's trying to get the real fans. Like he's trying to get the real fans and doing what he can. I like the concept. You put it out last minute. Who's willing to like call in sick to work to come to my concert? Because I just, I'm announcing it the same day or whatever it is. But also like, who wants to be? These tickets badly enough to wait, to hire someone to wait on a line.

That's also another. Yeah, I think this is definitely a step below what we were hearing before because you can't resell them. So it's not like these people are doing this. They're hiring the line guy, paying the line guy $200 and then reselling the tickets for like an extra $200 and they're making money on it. Right. They just really want the tickets and they probably have to work.

Or maybe you could look at it and think they have to take care of their sick. grandmother. And so they're hiring a line guy and that will make you feel a little bit better about it. Right. They don't necessarily even have to be wealthy. They could just be someone who's like so intensely into this into Paul McCartney that they are using up their monthly savings to make sure they get this ticket because they can't make it. Just having the ability to sit and wait in line at 12 o'clock in the middle of a work day is sort of a privileged thing as well. You know, if you're like an employee working for a company and you just call in, you might be afraid of losing your job. And like even the ability to be able-bodied enough to stand outside in the cold for seven hours. And maybe someone else is not. And that's privilege, right?

Exactly. Like there's always someone who's more privileged than you and always someone who's less privileged than you. I think if anyone has used a fast pass at a theme park, I don't know that. that they can, I mean, that is like, I guess, an institutionalized way to use your wealth to. Maybe people feel more comfortable with that because it's like so clear. But that is, that is like a much more blatant version of this. Yes. You pay the, you pay the, you pay the, you pay six flags.

Yeah. You cut the line. You pay Disney World. You cut the line. Yeah. You don't even have to employ somebody while you're doing it. Right. You're not even helping the workforce here.

Yeah. I get it. I appreciate the, uh, dilemma, but I think we're on the same page that it's not the worst thing in the world. And I think Paul McCartney's still going to get what he wanted, which is he's going to get some good diehard fans in that room, whether you're hiring a line guy or not. But I get it. I get why it's tweaking her a little bit.

Yeah. The world is not super fair. Nope. All the things. I mean, you know, there's so many examples of this where you could just throw money a problem and, you know, make your life easier. You know what the thing is, this one's so visible. There's so many other ways that wealthy people use their money to get things that other

people can't or get privileges or get, you know, access to things. But usually you can't really see them. But when you see a line guy, you're like, this is annoying. And you're standing behind him for like seven hours. It's like just playing that tape. your head of like, oh my gosh, whoever this person is is not standing here and instead this person is. Right. Yeah. And most things you either, like you said, get a glimpse into or you don't really see them because they're behind the scenes. Yep. But this, I can see being, I validate being annoyed by it,

but I also don't think it's unfair. Let's do some intentions. All right. I'll read this one. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thank you both for all of your thoughtful advice week after week. I'm writing in seeking an intention for some flight anxiety that I've been experiencing. I've an upcoming trip that I'm very excited about, but the recent plane crashes that have been all over the news are making me very anxious to fly. I have flown many times before with no issues, but I can't help but feel like there have been more crashes than normal lately, and I'm pretty nervous. Do you have any guidance and an intention to help me through this next flight? Hoping this can help other listeners as well, as I know I can't be the only one. Lots of love to you both, and thank you for reading. I'd

liked this question. I'm going to, I'm about to fly on Wednesday. And I have to say, I'm not usually like an anxious flyer, like I, or anxious about things beyond my control. But there have been a lot of headlines lately. And even I am getting like a little bit of a feeling of like a slight small anxiety. So I can't even imagine how someone who actually has a fear, oh, preexisting fear of flying would feel right now. It does feel a little bit anxiety provoking for me too. Yeah, totally. I do think this is super relatable. Like, I'm one of the ones that's like asleep before the plane even takes off. And I could see that this is, the bubbles up for people around this because it's, I think a lot of it has to do with the visuals. Yeah. You know, like you're really seeing the actual,

you know, footage of, so it's like that, that part of your brain, that like trauma fear center is being infused with visuals and even like the auditory stimulation. If you're listening to, you know, what's going on in the videos, that's what I think brings this to, you know, into your nervous system a lot for people when they're flying. So and just headlines and talking about it and keep bringing it up. So totally get it. Our brains are wired, right, to create this like pattern, conclusion mindset. If you see like, a few of these things, even if they're small, you're kind of like, whoa, like there's a high correlation now with people who fly and people who get into plane crashes.

Yes. Yes. And then your next thought is like, well, what can I do? Right? And when you're, what can you do is either not fly, which I don't think most people want to give into or you can worry about it and ruminate on it. And that feels like you're doing something about it when there's nothing really. that you can do. So I'm glad that you came here. And I think one of the things that we do with

fears is like when your, when your mental dialogue starts to go down that path of like creating a really fearful narrative is like providing evidence against it. So despite these two big plane crashes that we've seen recently, flying is still like literally one of the safest ways that It's definitely safer than driving, and it's a safe mode of transportation in terms of, like, a chance of any particular flight resulting in fatality. It's really, really small. And I saw something also that even though there's been like slightly statistically, like there's been slightly more like things that have had issues, the actual fatality rate of flying is actually down.

Yes. So it's playing a trick on our brains, like you said. It's like playing this trick on your brain because you're having this like semi real life experience where you're watching the visuals of this and you're getting reminded of it when it really is like the trend is still going down, that flying is safer and safer and safer. And if it makes you feel any better, when things like this happen, it even makes it safer because now everyone's like extra hypervigilant when they're going to work.

The people that are behind the scenes of this are probably even more worried than you are because it's kind of their responsibility to keep everyone safe. So I get that this is hard. And as far as an intention, chances are really low if you can keep that in the back of your mind. Like flying is safe. And relative to all the other things that we could be worrying about, heart disease and can't and I'm not trying to scare you, but like there's lots of other things that are more likely to happen to you. Much more statistically, likely, yeah.

Than this. So if you can create the conclusion that flying is safe, because I think in the grand scheme of things it is compared to other things that we're doing during the day, just kind of keeping that top of mind, that flying is safe. And I think another thing that's helpful when you're on the plane or even leading up to the plane is like, she said she has a trip she's looking forward to. So almost like exchanging the visual of whatever is filling her head, like these plane crashes,

especially that one that like flipped over that. I mean, both of them are horrific. One, there were a bunch of fatalities. But even the one where there were no fatalities, but the plane flipped over. It's like so scary. Yeah.

Terrifying. To see the images of that. So replacing the images of that of like what it is that you're looking forward to on this trip. you know, like, we're 8D audio. Yes. On the plane.

Yes. 8D audio. And then combining that with like a closing your eyes and visualizing where strolling down the streets of whatever city you're flying to or you're going somewhere warmer like the sun on your skin and just, you know, visualizing that. And then the intention that I wrote is flying is safe. I am safe. with each deep breath I'm moving towards a life of wonder and adventure.

Because the alternative is you don't fly. I don't go anywhere. Yeah. Or you're so paralyzed by this or like, you know, the whole time you're just like sitting there like gritting your teeth getting through it. So I think if you can look at it like relaxing into this discomfort, it's kind of like a training for your life because there's going to be other times when you're going to feel like this and like, okay, I'm in it. I'm on the plane. And expecting

turbulence, I think is also a good thing to do instead of being like, what if there's turbulence? Like there's going to be turbulence. Right. And you're going to be fine. So that way when the turbulence happens, you're not like, here it is. I knew it. Right. Right. Kind of expecting that there's going to be some shaky air on the plane and it's going to, that rattling sound. There's going to be some funky sounds, right? We all have that experience where the plane makes that weird like squealing sound or, you know, planes make weird sounds all the time. So like expecting there's going to be weird sounds.

There's going to be turbulence. We don't know. Most people don't know how planes even work. So I think that creates a lot of fear of flying. Like what is even happening right now? I have no clue. And if something went wrong, like that's what I like about flying. personally, I like that I have no control over anything. Like, there's, I get much more scared skiing where I'm like,

if I ski into a tree, that's because I, it's all your fault. Screwed something up. But I did this thing that I didn't know how to do correctly. Right. With planes, you're in there. Like, you've got nothing to do, but relax. Like, it is, there's absolutely nothing you can do to affect how this, how this trip goes. Yes. And that freaks a lot of people out. I get it. I like it. It calms. me, but I see other people how that could break them out. Like I personally, I'm the same way. I'd rather like go skydiving

than ride a motorcycle on the highway. Yeah. Agreed. Like I don't want to be in control of any like fast moving like slightly dangerous type activities. So yeah, I get it and I'm glad that you brought this up and I think just kind of you know, doing, visualizing why you're doing it

and that this is like building resilience and strength in you as you sit and relax into that discomfort of, you know, whatever your thoughts were ahead of time. You know, I am safe. You are safe when you're flying. You're safe. You know, we just happen to be, you know, and the media coverage around it is huge. If the media wouldn't be covering this, there have been 67 people that have died of heart disease in one week.

but the media is not reporting on that. Probably more, yeah. Right. So when you hear about a bunch of people dying in one instant, it feels like it's such a bigger deal because it's just more sensational. So just kind of keeping yourself in check that flying is safe, breathing deeply, visualizing the place where you're going to go and all the enjoyable things that you're going to do when you get there,

and that you're heading into an adventurous life with, some awe by kind of just relaxing into this discomfort. Agreed. Good luck. Anyone who else needs this, you're going to be fine. All right, let's move on to our triggered segment. We are not keeping anything bottled up and neither is Angry Orchard, our sponsor for today's episode.

Angry Orchard is here to shake things up by sponsoring our triggered segment helping you guys get that sweet release. Whether it's a petty annoyance or a full-on rage spiral, your feelings deserve to be felt and then let go. Write or call in and tell us what you're triggered about this week and we'll help you uncap all of the feelings. I will read our first triggered here. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I love oversharing and I'm enjoying the new subscriber content. Awesome. I have a low stakes triggered scenario and I'd like to know if you think I'm overreacting. My family moved across the country last month for my husband to start a new job. We have four girls under the age of seven.

Wow. Wow. way to go. It's a lot. Whatever you're doing is enough. And I'm a stay-at-home mom. It's been a difficult adjustment. We don't know anyone here, and he's working much longer hours than before. He used to get home for dinner every night, but now walks in the door just as the girls are going to bed.

Last Monday, my husband said that two of his new bosses invited him to grab a drink with them after work on Friday. I said that was great and encouraged him to go. Fast forward to Friday, and I realize that this gathering is happening. on Valentine's Day. To be clear, I'm not mad at my husband. He asked, and I said that sounded great. I just find it baffling that someone would invite a married father of four to hang out after work on Valentine's Day. We keep it low key every year. He sends flowers. I bake something with the girls, and they make him some cute cards. So it's not like he canceled our plans. Still, I was upset. What does this mean about their corporate culture overall? How triggered can I be best, probably trigger.

treating solo. Okay. So I think the sign-off says everything that she's worried about. Answer is always in the email. Yeah. It's true. I get it. It is weird and triggering that it's Valentine's Day.

They just assumed that it was like a regular day. But I think her fear is because it's a new job that the culture is going to be like he doesn't. his family moments like trick-or-treating are not going to be held with high importance at his new job. It doesn't sound like she really cares about Valentine's Day. I think it's more about what does this mean and how can, what are we getting ourselves into here? And I think it's tapping into, I mean, as these all the triggers do, they tap into the insecurity. And I think for her, the insecurity is like, I feel very alone here. I don't know anyone in this new city.

you are working all the time. Like that's what's really the issue. It's not really about like these drinks that didn't really get in the way of any plans they had. It's like this feeling of I feel very isolated and alone and like maybe disconnected, maybe disconnected. Maybe. I mean, she didn't say that, but like it's possible. And I can imagine feeling overwhelmed in a new state for young kids. and a husband who I don't see all day.

So I could see like, I think that part feels, I don't know if that's triggering or if that's like the current state that she's in, but I sympathize with that. I don't think them asking if he could get the drink is that triggering. I think he could have said no. But she didn't ask him to. He asked her if it was okay. It wasn't like he just said, I'm going.

And he's new there. So he's probably trying to like, he probably sees this as a good opportunity to further his career. Yes. I think this is one where like nobody did anything wrong. Like I don't think the coworkers were wrong for asking. I don't think he was wrong for saying yes, especially if he checked with her. She's playing forward like how many of these holidays with the family am I going to have to do alone?

Because it sounds like they do kind of celebrate Valentine's Day more as like a family thing. And now she's doing Valentine's Day with the girl. girls alone and anticipating doing like Halloween alone and is she going to have to do you know I think there's just this idea of I think it is triggering probably some feelings of just general loneliness which you touched on and I think that's yeah it's a really I admire you for being so supportive this sounds like a really really hard situation to be alone with the four kids all day until bedtime when you don't have any friends in the city yeah I'm sure that It's like that's probably she gets no human interaction.

Yeah. Adult's, adult interaction. Yeah. This is a lot. And I think so as far as like what to do about it, right? Like she's not getting mad, which is great because what she could do is like get really annoyed with him. Now she has all this and conflict with him. Because he's like, I'm just trying to do the best I can.

I asked you. You said yes. Now you're mad. Although he didn't say it was Valentine's day. I don't know if he realized. But I do think like if he just left that out and was hoping. She didn't realize that would be kind of annoying. I don't know that he did that.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like it was almost like in the midst of it. She realized it was Valentine's Day and was like, wait a minute. It's Valentine's Day. This is crazy. Right.

I would be annoyed if I felt like I was tricked into like saying yes to something that I, because I didn't realize. But I don't know if that's the case. I don't want to plant that if that's not something she's thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But I think she can, you know, it might be worth her like looking ahead. at her schedule and figuring out, like, asking him for what she wants, which is like, I would like, you know, you to try to be home for dinner X amount of times or like, I don't know, whatever's coming up, like Memorial Day weekend, like, can we try to spend some time together as a family or like just kind of getting ahead of it and saying what is important to her, something that she can look forward to, that she knows that they're going to have some good family time and seeing if he can,

if he has enough notice, try to make sure that he doesn't make plans on those particular days where she doesn't just feel like she's just being pulled back and forth at the whim of his job constantly, never knowing when she's going to get like a little fuel in her tank by being able to be with him altogether as a family. Yeah. And I think if she explains that this situation is kind of like sad or stressful for her, I feel like he'll be a lot more. If she hasn't said any of those things where, like, I feel a little overwhelmed.

I feel like I'm doing everything alone. And, you know, it makes me sad that, like, I'm anticipating not having these family memories because you're working all the time. I think that, like, he'll be much more likely to, like, find the solution or the next time his boss asked him to do something on a holiday or on a day that, you know, maybe he would just think about, because you've already told him about these fears or these anxieties or these insecurities that he'd probably be more like ahead of it. Yeah.

I think this is just a good wake up call that you're feeling lonely and you're maybe needing to just talk to him about that or share that with him that or maybe you need to ask him to on the weekend be with them so you could try to do something and make some friends. So that way you can kind of have when he's gone, you know, maybe do a little Valentine's thing with some other mom and her kids or if it is really about loneliness or maybe it just is about you wanting him. In which case, that's a different story. But I think this is a good wake up call that like you're wanting something. I don't think it's about Valentine's state in specific, but either she's afraid of like how it's going to play out going forward or she's feeling like she needs a little something else. to look forward to.

And I think you guys can make that happen together if you talk about it. Yeah. I'd give this like, I don't know the husband, but I would give this like a three and a half because he asked her. But I would want him know that he didn't know it was Valentine's. Yeah. Yeah. That would be in the back of my head.

Right. It would have been better if he was like, I know it's Valentine's Day. Yeah. But do you mind if I go? Right. I agree with that. I would be like a little peeved that I, because maybe she wouldn't have said yes. Right.

So I'll give it a three and a half. Yeah. Unless she knows him so well that she knows there's no way he could possibly have done that. Right. I don't know. Yeah, I agree. I do think that matters if he was trying to like sneak it in. Yeah.

Or not. Because he might not have wanted to address it either. You know, if he was trying to sneak it in, it goes to show like he didn't want address the real issue, which is like, I know it's Valentine's Day, but these are the reasons why I feel like I really need to do this. I want to make friends. I want to like network in the office and I see your position and I understand why this might upset, like addressing the actual issue than just trying to like brush it under the rug by being like, oh, it's just Friday night drinks. Right. Yeah. And maybe she wants to feel like he wants to be home. Yeah. That could be another part

of it. Yeah. Like it's easier to blame the kind of like distant bosses. Like how could they ask a married father or forward? Like you can ask anyone to do anything at any point. Yes. He's the one who maybe she, I think she's actually more mad at him, but maybe she wouldn't say that.

Right. It's easier to be mad at hypothetical people. Yes. Or it does sound like it almost was like neither one of them realized it was Valentine's Day until it was like the evening of Valentine's Day. And then she's like, oh, wait. that was a cool it's Valentine's Day um so yeah i i be yeah i'll give it a little bit higher because that moment where she's like sitting alone with the kids and realizing like he's probably out

for drinks at some bar like filled with couples celebrating Valentine's day and she's there like cutting out heart-shaped construction paper by herself with the kids right um yeah i'll give it like a you gave it what did you give it you get a three and a half Yeah, I'll give it a four. Okay. Four, four and a half. I hear you. This is just good opportunity for some more conversation.

So I would look at this as a good thing. Agreed. Let's do another one. We have a voicemail. And again, guys, if you want to leave us a voicemail, you can call 646-3636294. We get so many voicemails. They're all so great. Love hearing the tone in your voice.

Let's roll the tape. Hi, Sharjana, and Dr. Naomi. I am a huge fan of the podcast. and really appreciate all that you guys do. I have a shared scenario that I would like to share your thoughts on. I dropped out of work. I'm doing a new job right now. I'm finishing up training.

And I have a new coworker who I have spoken to probably about a handful of times. We're not necessarily super close, but we get a long time. and we were just discussing, like, kids, and I was saying, well, like, you know, I don't really know if I want kids, and I have a tendency to overshare as well. I was just like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't really know if I'm going to ever have kids. I go back and forth on it, especially because me and my current partner, we, like, kind of just go back to forth on it. anyway, and then I just kind of like inserted in there, but it'll depend on who I marry, right? And I said that because I'm 24, my boyfriend is 23. Neither of us are really focused on marriage at the moment.

Like, we definitely, like, had conversations about the future, but we, I don't think either of us, like, are particularly, like, we don't even live together yet, right? and neither of us are particularly, like, ready to be seriously thinking about that. But we have, like, a great, healthy relationship. Anyway, this coworker was, like, immediately after I said, well, it will depend on who I marry, she immediately said, well, then you just answered that question for yourself right now. Like, it sounds like he's not the one. and I just felt like that was like very inappropriate, like, not, I don't know, I was just, like, I did not appreciate that, and it kind of made me feel like making just a quick assumption about my relationship just because I said it'll depend on who I marry because, like, I've also, like, been through a lot of heartbreak, and so, like, maybe that's just me trying to, like, not set myself up for heartbreak, but,

I don't know. Like, we're both so young and neither are really like thinking about that right now. And yeah, like in the long term, I would like to marry him. But like, I don't know. I just, I didn't like how she said of that. And it really triggered me. So I would help me hear your thoughts. Thanks so much.

Love you both. What do you think? You know what? I love this question because I think a lot of people that are in a long, term relationship, there is this pressure from the outside sometimes, like, almost like a shameful thing if, like, you're not going to end up with the person that you're with, but somehow you're, like, wasting your time or it's like not okay, or you should cut and run if this isn't someone that you think you're going to be with.

Right. Or the idea that, like, a relationship that doesn't end in marriage is not, is like a waste of time. Yes. Yeah. And I think people do end up feeling a little bit like they're happy in the relationship. She sounds fine. She sounds content. But yeah, there's this feeling of like you need to figure that out when like I don't think you need to figure that out. Like if it's not working for you, you'll know and you'll end it. Right. Or I think it's also the shame of like if she doesn't, if she's not outwardly saying that she's obsessed and this is the only person she could ever be with. And he's like the love of her. life than what are you even doing here?

Yes. And first of all, some people don't even get that way about anyone. Like she's talking about her own personality. She's like, I've had, I try, I have like a little bit of a,

I'm a realist to an extent where she's like, I'm not trying to just like say that we're like a lock for forever. Yes. And then there can be the shame about like. And I feel like that that comes maybe societally or from other people projecting that they're only positive things about being in a relationship. or being on a marriage track or knowing for sure that someone's the one. Yes.

And I get it. I think people are trying to prevent the pain of a breakup. But like it's going to be painful no matter what. But I do think a lot of times I see this in my practice, in my groups, like in my work where someone will be dating someone and that person's like not committing, say, to marriage, whether they're 24 like this woman, which I do think is different if you want to have kids than if you're 44,

I think that there is this outside pressure, like other people from the outside, like to come in and say, if your partner's not committing, you should leave. Where they almost like, especially at this age of 24, she's like,

I never said I want like a lifelong commitment from them. And I think it plants when people come in with that, it like plants that seed. There's already so much societal pressure to be on the right timeline of like, I want to be in the wave of engagements. I want to be like in the wave of weddings. I want to be in that wave of babies. And I do think that there's enough of that already that when people are coming from the outside and like being like, but you might veer off the timeline.

Like you might not be heading towards this golden horizon of marriage and kids that like she's kind of like back off. Like I don't even know if I want that. Like why? I don't even know you that well. Right. Yeah. And it is interesting that marriage or like being, you know,

the life partner thing is the only thing in society or in like life where you're expected to have absolutely no doubts, be 100% gung ho. like have blind optimism towards like if someone said this if someone asked her about like if she wanted to be a senior director um and she said i don't know like we'll see where i i don't know where i don't know where i'm going to be in in five years i don't know if i'm going to be at this job in five years right the person would be like well then you better just leave now yes like no one would ever say that they would say like that's the great way to look at it like take it you know if you're happy now stay here now if you're not

Totally. I think there really is like a push against letting your life just unfold because it almost feels like if you're not gripping tight to it and controlling every aspect of your life that somehow it's going to end up not the way you want it. Like it might end up not the way you want it, whether you grip tight or you let it unfold. And I even think letting it unfold allows you to have a presence as you move through life that's a little bit more like calm. That's going to probably bring. in better decision making and people are going to enjoy being around you more. Like I see all the time these relationships that are fine. And then there's this external like little voice in your ear of like, well, why didn't, why aren't you moved in together? Like, why aren't you getting married? And then you're like, wait, why aren't we moved in together?

Why aren't we getting married? And it just, it's like, I think it's not healthy for people to feel like. to feel like. Unless they're the ones who actually want to get married and want to move in together. Right. Yes. If that's, but this doesn't sound like what this is at all.

And yeah, I agree. If that's something where you're worried about your timeline and you're kind of like, okay, we've been dating for three years, I want to be married young. That's important to me. I want to have kids young.

That's important to me. Great. Then have that conversation and maybe you need to cut your losses. but other people just coming in and saying, well, exactly what you said, you need to be sure about the person that you're dating when you're 24 is like your life partner. That's, I could see why she's triggered. I'm a little triggered because I'm like, she's just living her life, letting her life unfold. Like, don't give her something else.

This like totally random self-imposed anxiety that she doesn't need. That's probably a projection of this coworker's own. experiences or feelings about what timeline you, what pace you should move on. Yeah. And I was going to say, I've seen this so many times where like people are in these relationships that are fine and they're happy.

And then someone gets a bug in their ear that they need to be like engaged or moving into it's not even their own thing. It's like they get it from the outside. They see it on social media. And now the relationship is just filled with this like anxious pressured energy. And it ends up going downhill because of, of that, like external pressure to fit into the right timeline. And now this relationship that was really fun and enjoyable and just loving is now like a

means to a destination that you weren't even sure if you necessarily wanted. Right. Which is annoying because she is 24 and her boyfriend's 23. Yeah. Yeah. The age makes it especially annoying. But I even think if someone's like 34 and their boyfriend's 33. like right again unless they are feeling like that's what they want i think that's the main difference

in the ages because it's like by 34 or 33 a lot of women are looking to are more clear that that is what they want right in the shorter term right and i do think if that is okay fine biological clock right that's a big factor but if it's more just about like i want to secure this person then that's more like a conversation about just how you're feeling in the relationship. And I think it could be a really nice conversation versus like this thing that's like, you don't love me enough. That's why you don't want to get married. And like this quiet little, you know, quiet resentment or pressure of if you love me

enough, you'd want to get married. So, yeah, this annoys me for her because she is so young. And like, I want her to be able to just enjoy the unfolding of this. relationship without this unnecessary pressure. So yeah. And she didn't even ask her, the topic wasn't about the relationship. Marriage, yeah. It was about kids.

It was about kids. And all of a sudden she's like, well, then he's not your person. It's like, what? We weren't even talking about whether or not he was my person. Yeah, find a new coworker friend. Yeah. I give this a six. I was going to say a five, but I'll split the difference with you.

I'll give a five and a half. It's one thing if they were talking about, like, do they see themselves with their partners long term? But like that wasn't even the topic. The topic was about kids. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, guess this isn't the guy for you. Who are you? Yeah. Shut up, bitch.

Okay. Let's all right. Well, we did it. We did it. Thank you guys for writing in. And let Angry Orchard help you celebrate the sweet release. What better way to toast to that relief than with the crisp, refreshing flavor of Angry Orchard made with real fruit, two apples in every 12-ounce can or bottle.

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