Oversharing - Can I Gracefully Exit The Group Chat?

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

After some wholesome IRL bonding time in the studio and NYC, Jordana and Dr. Naomi are back in their natural habitat — the virtual recording setup — and they’re breaking down every last chaotic detail of the recent family vacay. The Overshare comes from a Betch spiraling about all the different group chats in her phone, and the hosts discuss the ever increasing communication trend. A write in seeks a Betchicist on how to handle a co-workers seemingly innocuous lie that left her feeling gaslit. Dr. Naomi gets real and emotional with an intention for a listener dealing with the devastating loss of her dog and the duo gets deep about the soul-crushing grief (and soul-healing love) that comes with losing a furry BFF. Jordana rates a triggered scenario that left an employee footing the tax bill after her company “gifted” her some premium swag, uhm what? And Dr. Naomi drops some serious validation for a Betch whose sister asked if she could name her baby… after her very recent ex-boyfriend. We wish we were kidding. Subscribe to Oversharing on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@OversharingPod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. So bittersweet to be back with you virtually this Monday.

You're sitting in my chair. That was my chair. It was awesome. It has a little headrest. I really need to get one of the, I was, that was me doing therapy last week. Like sitting back. Too comfy. Relaxing with that thing right behind the nook of my neck.

That's a good chair. I have to get one. Yeah. It's not that stylish, but it does, it does provide very good back support. So, you know, it's all, it's all a tradeoff. I'm a big fan of function over fashion, personally. I am as well, like almost two. I think both of, maybe both of us sometimes like to a fault.

Yeah. Like I remember my friend Liza's is like stylist and I just be like, I just want to wear like the most comfortable thing possible. She's like, well, how about like a healthy medium where like you can't walk. Maybe you can't walk five miles in these shoes, but like you can walk in them. Right. Right. Right.

No, totally. But yeah. And they're a little cuter. Yes. Totally. I'm a big fan of Elastic. waist pants, you know, once you go there, like when you're pregnant and you do elastic waist pants, it's like hard to get back. I've really never gotten back there. I don't. You've never

looked back? I've never looked back. No, every now and then, when I get really dressed up, I'll do a button and a zipper. Yeah, that's funny. But yeah, you were, it's a, we had such a fun week. It was awesome. It was really, really nice. So I did, what was the debrief? Was it too much for you? So for those of you guys who don't know, I stayed with Jordana.

We stayed with Jordana and Mike for 10 days. It was a long stay. They say fish and guests start to stink after three days. So we tripled that. No, I here's the thing. I, I over the, my overall experience is that I loved it. It was very fun to like see everyone. You get like a definitely like a deeper level of bonding when you're living with people.

It definitely is a lot more like I think the thing. Again, it was you for 10 days. And then it was our brother Josh and his kids for like five days. And our brother John also for five days. So I think it's more like, um, the only downside I think is that you're like, you know, you're with, what was it, 10 other people. Right. And I think there's like, you know, there's.

It's funny because I always thought of myself as like messy and type B, but I guess maybe with my house some like a little bit more like, ooh, like. Yeah. Well, it's brand new too. Right. But I don't want to be like that bitchy aunt who's like, stop dribbling the ball in my house. Like, do you know what I mean? So I would I start what I remember saying to like, you know, all the kids was like, why don't we go outside? Right. Why don't we? Why don't we dribble? Why don't we throw the basketball outside? Why don't we play hide and see. not in the new cabinets. Right, right. Totally. Well, that's probably my fault because we have a ball playing house. You know, I'm like into sports and athletic and our entire, we have a big foyer like entryway.

And some people put a cute table with like knickknacks. And I just put nothing in there and they play ball in the house. Oh, wow. Self made court. Yeah, self made court. Exactly. So that's probably my. fault that they think it's okay to play ball in the house.

It's okay. So we can have that discussion. But yeah, I can feel it's a lot. No, but it was great. It's like, again,

I think like I loved having everyone. It was, again, you'd get like a full deeper level, I think of like knowing what's going on in everyone's lives and what their deal is and what they do and what they, you know, like,

it's only Jared asked me like if there was anything about like you're, you're in Jeff's parenting style that I, Oh, good question. Or something like that. I think I kind of like knew your drill. I feel like you're much, you're like, I think you're very into like making sure that they're out and about and like not on their phones. Yes.

Which I think is great. But it's funny. Because like your kids are almost making fun of you. Because you were like, you're like about to work. And you're like, why don't you go outside and count butterflies? Like see how many butterflies you can count. And then I went on the hike with like Jeff and the kids and they're like they're like literally making fun of you. They're like, okay, there's a butterfly. Like tell mom. Like tell mom we got like we're

going to make up that we we spotted eight butterflies. But it's it's cute. Yeah. It is it is true. And it's an interesting dynamic I think too. And this is this works for our episode that we're going to record right now and the calm the fuck down episode. I think there is just. such a social awareness, at least I have that, a social awareness of like everyone else's experiences, what other people are thinking and feeling. So it's like when I was, when we were in the house and we were hanging out, I'm kind of like thinking, okay, is this too much? Do you guys need more alone time? And then when we went out and we were gone, I'm like, do you think that we're like using you for your house and we're not hanging out enough? So I found myself like over analyzing a bit of like

what your experience was with us being around, not being around. That's funny. I kind of had the same sort of feeling, I think, in like the opposite way. Right. I think. Where I'm like, am I being like, you know, welcoming and friendly enough? And then you're and, and then like sometimes there were moments where I was like, okay, there's a lot of people here.

I am like a little overwhelmed because I'm used to just me and me and Mike. Yeah. But it's like, you know what I mean? It's fun. And it's like the, like the game night. I mean, you weren't there for the game night. But it was like, it's just so fun, especially like as your kids are getting older. Like I was with some friends who were kind of like they have daughters and they were like,

they're like very afraid of them getting to like that teenage, those teenage years. I think they've heard like really bad. And I'm like, no, my nieces are here and they're like awesome. Like it's so fun. You can they like talk to you about like real things and they have these like whole lives and these like personalities that are like super developed. They're like they're like that way because you're like their like aunt. that's like probably they think of as like fun like they're probably a nightmare not next to you.

I'm like, I don't know. I think they're. No, they're, you know what? Cool. Yeah. I'm very lucky. They're really good. They're funny and they're interesting and they share and helpful.

Helpful. Maybe that's just for me. No, they are. I mean, I have to bribe them to be helpful. So they're not just intrinsically helpful. But if they were helpful to me, you were. They were there. They were like, how can I help with the barbecue prep?

Lila told you. She was like, what can I bring out? I was like, that's so sweet. At 13, I would not be doing any of that. Well, that's good to hear. Yeah. So they're great. It was great.

It was like a, you know what I mean? It's funny. Like when everyone, towards the end, when everyone was there, it was like, oh, it would be nice to like have the house back or just like maybe things just like everywhere, like a little needer or whatever. Right. Which is getting a debt, not like a thing to you. I think just a feeling, but then everyone left.

And I was like, oh, it sucks. Oh, how was Ronnie after we left? I didn't ask you. He was so sad for a little bit. He was really sad. I actually, it was better for me, though, because he would wake up at 5.30 in the morning just feeling when you guys were here. Being like thinking someone, yeah, thinking someone was hanging out. He would go and cry and bark outside your doors, like wanting to like have you hang out.

And then when you left, he was like, he was, he slept in a little bit. Right. He was probably exhausted from that. Right. He probably thought he was entering. He's like, I've been entertaining for 10 days. But it was really cute. Yeah, to watch him with the kids.

He was like, it felt like he really thought he was one of them. Like they would be like running around and he'd be like running around with them. So cute. It was very, very cute. So. There's a really good time. Please come back. It was, it was lovely.

All right. We'll come back in November. Yeah. It was really fun. And it's crazy. spending, you know, I was there fully almost two weeks all that time in New York. My New York accent came back. Which I didn't even realize that I have, but I guess in Texas, like if you go to Florida

or something like that, it's probably not as noticeable. But from New York to Texas, like I came back. And within the first two days of coming back, I had three people asking me, oh, where are you from? That's really funny. And that never happens. except for right after I got back from New York. It's so.

Where was, what kind of words? It's, you know, I don't do the ours as much like, you know, I'm not going to be like, where's the, you know, refrigerator? Like, I don't talk. I mean, that would be a pretty drastic change. Right. Right. I don't talk like that, but it's the A's.

So I, we went to meet the teacher night at the school. And I was talking to the Spanish, Lila's taking Spanish. I was talking to her Spanish teacher. And I said something like, she's always wanted to take Spanish, always wanted. And I guess in Texas, it's more like wanted. Like, she's always wanted. Or there's a lot of words like that I like orange instead of orange or what I say

orange orange is like New York. Yes. Orange is like everywhere else in the world. Oh, it's funny. Or even names like they have a friend, his name is Harrison. Yeah. don't call him Harrison. They call him Harrison. Harrison. Wow. Yeah, I would never say that. That's so funny. So if I say, oh, did you see Harrison? They're like, who's Harrison? Harrison? Harrison.

Well, that sounds very New York. Great. Yeah. So anyway, that came right back, which is crazy. It's like a subconscious comfort thing. You're back. You're back. You know, it's funny because part of me fights it almost. Like I don't, want it. And I think after spending time in New York, I really do love it there. It is my home. It's my heart. It's where I grew up and spent the most majority of my life. So I'm kind of like, all right, if I have a New York accent, let it be. Like, a lot of times I'll fight against it. Like, it's not refined. It's not, you know, elite and what's refined? The Texas accent's refined. I don't know about that. Yeah. I think it's kind of cool. I mean, I have a neighbor. She's from like Tennessee. And she speaks very differently than anyone. I think it's kind of cool. I'm like,

yeah, people are nice about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's part of who you are. That's like part of what makes you. But it's my own. I think I've always kind of fought against that Long Island accent thing. Right. Well, the Long Island one in New York and Long Island are a little different. Like Long Island to Long Island. It's got to be Long Island. I don't, I didn't grow up in the city. It's Long Island. I think they're similar to the city. Harrison. I had an orange in Florida. You don't sound like that. Don't worry.

I would tell you. Anyway, all right. That's funny. All right. Well, let's get into our episode. This was fun. And yeah, come back. It'll be.

All right. We will be back. Don't worry. The house is amazing. You guys are awesome. It's just really, it was a great time. You have an open invitation. All right.

You heard it here. Yes. It's on literal. recording. So just show up. All right. Let's get into it. If you guys have a voicemail, you can leave us a voicemail at 646363-6294. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. If you're a subscriber, there's a subscriber, there's two subscriber episodes, bonus episodes a month. And you can listen ad free and a day early. We have a new subscriber feedback episode that's already out. And that comes out. The subscriber bonus episodes come out. The second

and fourth Thursday of every month. Or you can join one of Dr. Naomi's therapy groups. How do they do that? Go to Naomi Bernstein.com. Check out, you know, get all the information on the groups, especially after today's episode. And I think the bonus, I mean, the calm the fuck down episode, you're going to hear a lot about how to navigate these social situations and be the right thing to everybody at the right time. And one of the great things about the groups is it's come as you are. You can come when

you're cranky. You can come when you're feeling full of energy to give and support. You can come when you want to stay quiet. It's a beautiful place. Just come as you are. No social etiquettes other than just being kind and nice. Yes. And you don't know these people in the real world. So there's no, even if they judge you. They don't know anyone you know. That's lovely. Yeah, it's lovely. So Naomi Bernstein.com, come find a group. Reach out. We'll match you up. And I hope to see you all there. All right. Let's get into it. Okay. I'll read our first overshare. I love this one. Very relatable. Greetings. Dr. Naomi and Jordana. This podcast has been so helpful in my everyday life. I appreciate the balance of how to become more mindful and also learn skills on how to accept where I am and be realistic. It really has moved the needle on how I deal with my anxiety.

I love to hear that. Here is my question. I am on so many group chats. I always have it. at least 12 going at once. Oh my God, it's a nightmare. They are things like book club, a winery I do seasonal work at, various friend groups, other couples, my husband and I hang out with, etc. I cannot describe the anxiety this gives me. Of course, because it is a lot to keep up with, the expectation of a 24-hour turnaround and remembering the tone of each room and the hat I wear in that group. I can't help that it feels like public speaking with no preparation. Every response is being seen by three to 25 people. The cultures and belief systems are really different in each text chain.

It's exhausting to need to respond and first scan my memory about what is the root norm and tone of each group. I will literally lose sleep remembering all of the sudden that I put my foot in my mouth, remembering what someone in the group is going through and how my comment relating to myself might be completely tone deaf. This type of interaction drains me and I really feel put out by it. I tried to get out of several, but everyone was irritated to have to remember to keep me in the loop and then often just gave up. Or they would slowly start adding people back to our one-on-one chats. The people in activities attached to these chats are great, but constantly

being on public display is miserable to me. How do I interact in this environment and just realize I may upset and offend people or get over being left out? How do I engage less and not feel guilty that I'm not following the expectations of modern etiquette? Help. An over-texted batch. So relatable. Yes. In the age of Yes, everyone's going through this and probably feeling social, like you're socially, I hear from a lot of people that socializing feels very draining sometimes. And this isn't even like actual socializing. This is just group chat at home. And then you have to get dressed and go out and do real socializing on top of this. You know, I think we're really not meant to be caretie. taking so many people's emotions at one time.

Like 25 person group chat or even a six person group chat to be able to remember what everyone's going through and cater your responses to make sure you're not triggering anybody or may become being aware of what it's just a lot. It's very exhausting. I can totally relate and I think many people can. Totally. I think group chat culture, even if you're in like three can just feel like it just can feel a little bit like at least when you go to a social interaction and sure everyone has some level of social anxiety, you leave and then you're like done. Like you can sort of feel like a never ending party that you have to be on for.

Yes. And I think that's what can feel really draining about all these chats. Like even like we have one with our siblings, right? And like most of the time it's fun. And then sometimes it's like a lot. And even with our siblings who like obviously like I'm comfortable with. I'm like, am I participating enough in this chat? Am I answering everyone?

And I think you can feel that way about a lot of these things, but you can't leave that's passive aggressive. Right. And it's funny because I sometimes think when various friendship group chats I'm in like if someone's never speaking in the group chat, do they like not really want to be there? Yes. But then I'm kind of now I'm reading this and I'm like, maybe they're just really anxious about saying the wrong thing.

so they don't say anything. Yes, totally. And I think you have to honor yourself in this. If you're never responding, that's one thing. But I do, you know, one piece of advice that you could do is kind of like when you're feeling energized and or if you have a bunch of time on your hands, like if you're sitting on a train or you can kind of like save it all up, leave them, mark them as unread. And then when you're.

you're on a train ride or you're waiting for something or your tank is full and you're feeling connected. Almost that moment where you're like, oh, it's Friday night and I have no plans. Like maybe I'll interact in the group chat. Like I'm feeling like socializing in this moment. That's when no one answers. Right. But at least exactly because they're probably out doing real socializing.

But that's your moment when you're feeling like socializing. So you can, you know, at least weigh in or put your, you know, not be the person that's never responding. But I do agree that, you know, I think there is pressure sometimes to respond that minute. And that is really hard because that, like she said, it feels like public speaking with no preparation, especially in these bigger group chats. Or there can be like some diffusion of responsibility where like someone says something and you don't really have much to say, but you're like, oh, there's 14 other people.

If they relate to this comment, they'll answer. But then maybe everyone thinks that no one answers. And then if you're the person that sent that message, then you feel like a loser. So there's so many different things that I think can be anxiety provoking about these chats. And I mean, I suggest I do this with all of my chats is I have them on like, I don't get like notifications. Right. Like muted or whatever. Yes.

Right. Right. So like again, I'll like look when I have like time to read the whole thing. Sometimes that backfires and you have like. 150 messages to read. Right. And you can just decide not to read it. But one thing that struck me about this person in particular's email is like it does feel

like she feels the need to put on a certain version of herself for different people, which makes me think maybe she doesn't feel like whatever her true self is is like enough for all these things. And I do think like if you feel like you need to be a different person for your wine, your seasonal winery or your book club, like maybe you're not really. showing up as your authentic self. And like, I think it's better to show up as your authentic of self and not click with as many people or potentially offend someone who, again, might be very sensitive and just

might not be like a good match as a friend for you than to be trying to be a different version of yourself. That sounds particularly exhausting to be like try to be a specific version of yourself for various different people. Yes. Totally agree. I do think that it is. important, your social interactions are supposed to be fueling and energizing. They're supposed to fill your

tank. You know, maybe it is important to stop and ask yourself, why am I doing these things? And she says the in-person interactions she likes. It's just the text interactions. And so the other piece that she, the other thing she can do is she can say, you know, just not really respond if it feels exhausting or she feels like she has to, you know, over text be a version of herself that isn't doesn't feel like is her in person she enjoys it over text she doesn't i think you could just own it also and just maybe back off not respond as much and then at some point you could say yeah group chats are not my forte or whatever something that's just kind of like sorry for not really interacting love you guys can't wait to see you but the group chats are overwhelming at some point um in some way whether it's in person or

individually to just tell people like this isn't my preferred method of communication, but I want to be part of things. Stay on it. So you get the information. Like she said, she's had leaving and then she feels left out. Like you don't have to leave. You can read it and get whatever information you need to get.

And when you feel good, respond and when you don't, don't. Totally. And I find that a simple like use the best thing that texts ever invented was the reaction buttons. So like a ha ha when someone says something funny, a like when someone gives a plan or and I'll be there when they give a certain time. Like that's really all like there. Like there are certain people who love the like we're making jokes and we're getting back and we're doing like an inside joke and we're like that's not really where I like to bond with people. Right. So there's a lot of chats where I'm just like liking the message or saying I'll be there or saying I can't make it. And

And that's, and I'm saving my like personality for. Yes. The in person situation. That's kind of like, yeah, even our family chats. I'm like, I'm not like a super participant. Like there's people who like love that. They love like getting everyone's opinion on something. I'm kind of like, I want the logistics and like I'll talk on the phone or I'll see you in

person. Yeah. And if you have a particularly funny thing to say that feels like quick and comes easily, then you say it. I've always felt this way about like posting pictures and captions where it's like and that's kind of when I stopped using social media was when I would like post a picture and I thought it was cute and I wanted to put it up and then I would be spending like 15 minutes thinking of a caption. I'm like what this is like a waste of my energy right now. Like I don't want to be thinking of like the witty thing to say in this moment.

And I think it's like if you have something witty or funny and it comes right up and out, throw it out there. If you're racking your brain, then just let it go by, use the reaction. I love those two because it shows I'm here. I'm participating. I think some people think it's like not participating enough. So they almost don't want to just do that. So then they end up kind of doing nothing, then feeling guilty that they're not.

not responding. There is a lot. Like I have patients, a good number of patients that a lot of their guilt is around like not getting back to people over text, not responding enough to group chats. It is, it's just a burden that we don't need. And I don't think anyone cares that much unless the only thing I'll say, if someone puts out in a group chat, some kind of an emotional, heavy, you know, personal kind of which I wouldn't do in a group chat

but some people do do that right if someone's putting themselves out there yes yes find a way to respond at some point but if it's just

even if it's responding to them personally off of the group chat I'll do that sometimes if someone's like does a big reveal of something and then I'm kind of like

let me just like message them something maybe a little more personal or meaningful on the side yes totally but I think other than that if it's just chit-chat bantery stuff and that's not for you. I think you can just, you know, and if you feel

the need to when you meet in person with these people, you can say, sorry, I'm a little quiet on the group chat. It's just not my favorite way of communicating. Right. Which like, why would it be everyone's? It's very funny because it's like, some people and the people who are who like it and are good at it, like a lot of people are good at like expressing themselves like through writing. Right. Or through text. Like they're very good at that. That's their preferred. And other people, like just art. Like there's so many different ways of communicating. And I do think it's mood dependent,

which is why getting that in the middle of your day when you're not in the mood to do that, is that's what feels draining. Like I think there are times, I know for myself and I think many people that I talk to where you're like, oh, this is fun. I'm into this. I'm just like in the mood to do this group chat right now.

And I'm like happily sitting here chatting away. And then there's times you're like, this is the last thing I feel like doing. And that's okay. Or you look at your phone and it's like you're in the middle of something and there's like 50 texts that you haven't read. Right. So honor yourself.

I don't, there's enough in this world to drain us that these group chats do not need to be part of it. And you are not responsible for other people's emotions. So if someone says something and you say something that was, you forgot that they, you know, went through something. Yeah.

Oh, that's part. And again, this is why we do. triggered. It doesn't always end up coming out that way, but like the point of triggered is to realize that like your triggers are your own stuff. If someone says, oh, I just, you know, I love my new house. Like I'm so excited, blah, blah, blah. And you remembered that this person like put a bit on a house and didn't get it and they're upset and they couldn't move. And you saying, I love my new house triggers

them. That's on that. They've got to work through that and figure that out. You didn't do. anything wrong there. So if that's part of what's burdening you, it is like it is very important for people to take responsibility for their own emotions, especially if it's something like a, you know, five, eight, ten person group chat. Right. And I think as long as you know that you're doing your best and like being a nice person and not trying to offend anyone, like that's what you have to come back to. Like I know who I am. If I did something, it was never intended. And like, I know I'm a very, even the fact that she's thinking about if something she said could upset someone. Someone who's like constantly saying things to upset people is not thinking like that.

Right. Yep. But that is, that's big. People sitting and ruminating over, oh, I said that thing. And what if I offended that person? And that takes up a lot of space for people also or didn't say the thing. So cut yourself some slack. I agree. You're a good person. You're even thinking. about all this. If you were not, you wouldn't even be writing in. So totally great. All right. Let's do a betraceousist. We have one from a narc. Let's get in there. All right. I will read this one. Okay. This is funny, though. Hi there. Love the Pod. It's one of my absolute favorites writing in today with an ethical dilemma. Over the past weekend, my husband and I attended a concert on a Sunday evening. The concert was about two hours from where we live. We live in a smaller town. While we were in our seats, I saw a co-worker with her husband also at the concert. They were walking back towards their seats a bit further away, so didn't get the chance

to say hello. Otherwise, I probably would have said hi and chatted since this coworker and I regularly talk at work. I'm off on Mondays, so I come to work on Tuesday, and this coworker chats me in the AM about something for work. And I follow up about the concert. See screenshot below. All right. So why don't you be the person writing in and I'll be the coworker? Okay, sounds good. Morning. Thanks. Also, we saw you in Blank at the Blank concert on Sunday, L.O.L. You guys were far away. We saw you walking. Otherwise, would have said hello. And if it wasn't you, so sorry, L.O. I was sick all weekends, so I don't think it was us, smiley face. But I do know I have a doppelganger out there. I've been hugged by strangers because of it, laughing emoji.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, no way. Okay, that's the end of the text. Okay. After she sends me this, I check the schedule and see that she called off work on Monday. I'm more than positive. This was my coworker I saw at the concert. And there's no way her husband has a doppelganger as well. So she definitely lied to me and also did not come to work the day after. My husband recognized them as well, and he works with me and her also. At work, I hold more of a manager position and this coworker has more of a junior position. I'm not her direct manager, but she does things for me occasionally. I'm curious your guys' thoughts if I should say anything to her direct manager or just leave it alone. This coworker is overall a great employee and she doesn't excessively call off. Part of me thinks I

should leave it alone, but really dislike the dishonesty of the situation and lying to me. What do you guys think? Thanks for all your insight. Liar, liar, pants on fire. I think this woman needs to like back off personally. I get what she's like, I get why she'd be like, this is shady and like, but here's the thing. She doesn't know 100% that it's her. Right. I mean, the way the coworker responded was like a little weird and she goes,

I don't think it was us. That's a little weird. Like, what do you mean? You don't, it was either at the concert or you weren't at the concert. Right. Like, the normal thing to say was like, would be like, Oh, I didn't go to that concert. Right.

Because she went. Because she went to the concert and it was her. You think it was her? Because the husband was the same too. If it was her alone, I'd be like, okay, maybe it was just someone that looked like her. It was her and her husband. I think she went. I think she lied right to her face, which is what's bothering her.

Like I think if she was just... It's just weird. She says, I don't think it was us. I don't think it was us. and I have a doppelganger. Like I just feel like when someone is peeing on your leg and telling you it's raining, it's so annoying. So I could see why I don't think she should snitch.

I think she should let it go. But I could see why she wants to do something because otherwise it just feels like you're just lying right to my face. And I can't even call you out. There's nothing I can do about this. I just have to pretend that I. I don't think that you're just lying right to my face. Well, I guess does she think she's lying for some like for a nefarious reason of like she got

super hungover maybe and then called off of work on Monday and maybe called in as a sick day or, you know, lied about why she wasn't there? And then now someone's asking her. So she probably panicked and said she doesn't think it was. Which is weird. I agree. But I'm kind of like, she said, she's a good employee, you know, maybe she panicked and just kind of like didn't want to tell you that and

you're kind of her boss and she was afraid. You were like, I guess to like admit it, she feels like might be worse for her because then whatever she told her actual boss, which is probably that she was not feeling well. Right. Maybe that they would question. And like, listen, is it the right thing to do? No, but like, has she heard anyone in this situation? Like she didn't. you know, I don't know. I kind of feel like what would be, what would be achieved by telling her manager this? Right. Yes. If I, I can even see telling the manager if she has a history of lying and not showing up and not being responsible, you're kind of like, okay, here's an opportunity to hold her accountable for this repeated behavior that's not okay. But she's a good employee.

She doesn't excessively call out. I definitely wouldn't say anything. And I hear your point of like, what else was she supposed to do if she did call out sick? Right. I mean, she could have just said sort of the truth. Yeah, I was there. I woke up sick the next morning and called out. Yeah. Which wouldn't have been like absurd.

Yeah. Wouldn't have been absurd. I just think even this is like I think the reason why gas lighters are so villainized because there's just there's something psychologically. I think what's tweaking her is this psychological manipulation where she almost like what you're doing is like maybe it wasn't her where she's like no it was definitely her you think it was definitely her there's no chance that it wasn't her like that's I guess my biggest fear if I were this person writing in my biggest fear would be like that I would try to get someone in trouble and it actually wasn't them

yes you know like the like we know how how many people should go free for one guilty person whatever the saying is to be like convicted. I'm kind of like, I'd rather her get away with it than like on the off chance that I'm some like super villain who's getting someone in trouble for something they didn't do. Right. I hear you and I would feel the same way if it wasn't her with her husband who looked like her and she looked like her and this person's partner saw them both and works with them both and saw that it was them. Right. The idea that we're even talking about this is the reason why I think it's pissing her off because it's like making you second guess your own reality which I think when someone makes you second guess your reality it just really can

throw off your entire sense of self or like sense of you know what's what's true and what's not and can you trust yourself and that's just not a good good feeling so I think that's what she's experiencing and that's really I think at the root of why when some like their expression he lied to my face right it's almost like a feels worse than if you lie to someone like behind, not right to their face. Because when you lie to their face, you're having this moment with them.

That's like, it's your reality against mine. And I'm going to make you doubt that the reality that you saw was real. And that just is, you know, it's upsetting. Right. So.

And she's seemingly lying for no reason is like the weird part. Well, I guess she's afraid. She just has a guilty conscience. She knows that she probably maybe they stayed or maybe they planned the whole time to stay overnight. It's two hours away. So maybe the whole time they planned to stay overnight. They got a hotel room. She knew she was going to just like wake up in the morning on Monday, call in sick. And she knows that. So she feels guilty about it versus just saying, yeah,

I woke up in the morning and I didn't feel well. Maybe she wasn't hung over. Maybe they just wanted to go to the concert and stay the night. Right. So maybe she's just a bad liar. Yeah. It's just so funny that she wouldn't just say, I didn't, I wasn't at that concert. Oh, you know what? She probably, you know what? She probably told her boss that she was sick all weekend. Right. Maybe that was it.

Right. She probably, when she explained it before this woman, she knew this woman spotted her. She probably said, I've been, I've been sick all weekend. So I need to cut to. Yes. And that's the part like that she probably already, she already, she already gave the excuse. And she can't, she can't walk it back and say, I just. He's just sick on Monday.

So she's afraid she's going to tell the boss that she was at the concert. So she couldn't have been sick all weekend. Totally. Yeah. And look, I think even that line of thinking, you give the, you know, you give her a little bit of credit that she's not the best liar, right? So maybe this isn't comfy for her. This isn't something she's used to.

She's a good employee. I would let it go. If you really feel like you cannot let this go, you could approach her directly and be like, hey, I don't, I get it. It's not the biggest deal. If, you know, you called out sick, maybe you woke up, you didn't feel well. I don't really need to know. But the fact that you lied right to my face is upsetting in the future.

I wish you could just trust that we could talk. Like, I'm not going to tell your, I'm not going to tell your manager. But I, you know, that didn't sit well with me that I know it was you and you lied right to my face. Yeah. I guess the coworker is probably thinking like I have two like okay if I'm the co worker I'm I am at the concert I'm I'm drinking a lot I never planned to going on on Monday but I didn't want to take a take a PTO day so I called in sick and then on so I already called in sick on Monday now it's Tuesday back at work right the other woman at my workplace has texted me now saying she saw me at

the concert I'm probably panicking and I'm like, I can either tell her that I lied to the other co-worker. Right. Or pretend I wasn't there. And I don't know. I mean, what would you do? Would you, would you be like, hey, like I was like, yeah, that was me. Please don't tell anyone because I called in sick.

Like that almost makes you look like you're worse and you're asking someone to lie for you. Right. I could sort of see why she would do it. Yeah. And why she did it. I hear it. I think if she was a better liar, she would just say, yeah, I went to the concert. I woke up on Monday.

I really didn't feel well unless, like you said, she told her she was sick all weekend and then couldn't backpedal it. But yeah, I see it. She was stuck. Did she hurt anyone? No, she's a good employee. You know,

I'm sure most people occasionally take a mental health day or whatever you want to call it, where it's like, I think we've all thought, at least thought about that. Right. Yes. So, yeah, I would leave it alone.

I think if the astronomer CEO affair debacle has taught us anything. It's that you can't go to a big concert lying about something because there's just too many people there and it's too public. Totally.

You're going to lie about stuff. Go to a private party. It's almost. Yes. I totally agree. If it's not a camera, you're going to get spotted. Yep.

Right. She didn't have to say the doppelganger thing. That's like a little more annoying. Yeah. When someone like elaborates on a lie, there's just something about that that really feels not good. But this isn't your best friend. This isn't your sister.

That's true. This is a random person. She lied to you. Move on. And you know, put it in her file and move on. Yes. Let's do some intentions. Hello, Jordana and Dr.

Naomi. I love the show and I've been listening to all the segments of the show relating and laughing except for the intention segment. I've never felt so out of control. on my own emotions or thoughts that would require an intention until now. So she's saying she like never related to the section until now. She's like, I skipped that one until now. I hate it.

Now I'm back. All right. After many weeks of trying to find answers as to what was wrong with my nine-year-old golden retriever, Brookeie, we decided that the kindest thing to do was to let her go without feeling pain. We had an incredible vet come to our house to do it in her bed with my husband and I petting her and hugging her. The entire experience was idyllic and she went so peacefully and had.

On to my issue. I can't stop crying. In my mind, I know we made the right choice for her, but I can't help the feeling of sadness that I can't have her with me anymore. I miss everything about her. She was my sole dog. She was loyal, a love bug, goofy, smart, protective patient, and my literal shadow. She was also the younger of our two dogs, so she was the baby and the first one to go. I feel like I need an intention to not spiral and cry nonstop. One of my kids asked me if I was going to cry forever. I told them not forever just for now because I'm very sad,

but it feels like I just might. It's the first time I've had to make a decision like this in my life, and I know I'm not coping well. My husband is being so supportive, but is concerned about me. I've never been this emotional about anything. If you could help me with an intention

that I can repeat to myself whenever I start going into that downward spiral, I would really appreciate it. Thank you for your time and guidance. I really feel for her. I know. So sad. Even like the vision of like the like the last moments where you're like there and

dogs are so innocent. It feels like very like I don't know. Yeah. That that imagery of that moment, I think that's a lot of what comes up in, well, a couple of things come up in these types of grief situations. One is again, that last moment. every time we talk about pet loss, I literally feel it in my throat.

Like I feel that lump coming in my throat. And what immediately comes to me is like the last moment that I had with my dog Ralph, which was like the worst pet loss I've experienced. So like that visual, I can see it right this minute. And it's so painful and it's so hard to sit with that. And then the other thing is guilt and regret. Right. Yeah, because I think this, you know, it sounds like the dog is like younger than her other dog.

She didn't really know what the issue was. So I'm sure she feels a sense of like, could I have, could I have saved her? Could I have done more? Was this, you know, I'm sure that's like running through her head as she's thinking about the dog. On top of missing, you know, like the everyday things that the dog brings into your life. And that's the, that's, you know, So the guilt, that visual imagery. And then with animals, you know, and people might find this offensive.

And I guess it changes based on like all of your relationships. But a lot of times pet loss can be even harder than losing a human person because there's nobody in your life that's like coming into the bathroom with you, coming up on the bed with you, going outside with you, coming inside with you, like moving around your whole space with you, living in your house with you, and just being so present, like all the little, the sounds that they make, the, you know, their little pause on the floor or like, you know, like barking in the morning to go out, like when they're gone, there's like a whole sensory deprivation of your space that can feel just so empty and enhance that, you know, that hole in

your heart and that deep longing. Like even if you lose a human, it's kind of like, oh, I was going to call them and tell them about this thing or like I can't call them. I can't hear their voice. And obviously, that's huge and that's bigger in a lot of ways. But with the pet loss, it's like all these moments where you're like, oh, I thought I saw him out of the corner, saw her out of the corner of my eye or the, you know, little dog toy that I always pick up and put in all these little moments that Right. Or you come home and they're not like waiting for you or something. Yeah. They're in your space and it's like a huge loss. So I really feel for her. But I think the part where she can make a little bit of a change is in that guilt space.

And I talk to patients about this a lot when they have, you know, sometimes with animals, sometimes with elderly parents or someone who's sick. It's almost like when you're trying to preserve, make sure that you're doing every single thing so that after they pass, you won't feel guilty. And I always, you know, try to talk to them. You say, the human mind will find some guilty thing to cling on after a loss most often. So it's like, well, if you didn't go visit them that one last time, but even if you did visit them that one last time, I have people where they're literally, you know, wiping their butt on their last poo, but they weren't in the room the moment that they, you know, passed away. Or they thought they were thirsty when they died

and they should have gotten them some water or like it's endless the things that your mind can do to make you feel guilty. So I think that's what she's probably doing here is there's something, she brings up the decision. There's something around this decision. that her mind is still clinging to and making her feel guilty and feeling like, you know, something different could have happened to make it better. And I hope to convince her that it's just a product of her mind and it's not, you know, reality. I'm sure she made that decision very thoughtfully.

And yeah, when she gets in that grief space where she keeps crying, it's almost like you're, you can do one of two things or a combination. of like going down the writing the story like rehashing the story in your mind of the decision and what came with it or you can go the path of like the feeling like this just feels sad and empty and lonely and I'm experiencing grief but leaning out of the well what if and the decision and maybe we shouldn't and maybe we should have gone to one more of that and maybe we should have spent a little more money or whatever. It's kind of like I would just lean away from that and lean into the feelings, which are really real.

And I don't know how long it's been, but it's normal. And it's your love. This grief is your love. So this is really hard. Agreed. Well, do you have an intention for when she starts to probably go down that like mental spiral of all those things? thoughts on top of the, you know, like that missing feeling. Yeah.

So I wrote for her, grief is love with nowhere to go. Lean into the feeling and away from the story. Because this feeling belongs. This feeling is your expression of love for this soul dog that you had, which is so special. And it's a way to kind of keep her here for now. And just kind of, it's the transition between her being there in body. and her being there in spirit emotionally through this listener's grief and tears. So you're in that transition period right now.

So just kind of leaning into the feeling, allowing it. It's okay if your kids say, are you ever going to stop crying? They're going to be fine. They're going to see that this is part of life and they're going to be okay. I think people are really afraid to feel too much in front of their kids, but that's okay. I guess there's a feeling of like I don't want to escape. care them. Yeah. Maybe or something. Yeah, mom's not okay. Maybe I'm not okay if my mom's not okay. And look, if this goes on for months and months, I would, you know, seek therapy around it.

And that's totally, you know, a normal thing to go to therapy for, pet loss. It doesn't, it doesn't have to be a human loss in order to go to therapy. So if it continues for longer than what you feel like is okay for you or you're not functioning well, I definitely would seek out therapy on it. I don't know how long it's been, but for now, I just think not fueling it with the narrative around, you know, what you did, what you didn't do, what you should have done, and just kind of allowing that, the transition of love from the physical form now into this emotional form to exist. And that's okay. Agreed. All right. It's good for your kids to like maybe be a little bit, you know, to just see

this and see that this is that loss is big and it's part of life right it's okay to like grieve for things yeah that's true all right well good luck let's do some triggers all right all right you want to read our first one sure hi jordanna and dr naomi i have a triggered scenario for you my company recently reached a new revenue milestone and had a meeting to celebrate in the meeting they said in honor of our hard work they would be giving us two gifts, a smart watch and over-the-ear headphones. They were very clear that this was a gift, and they were buying these to thank us for how we've helped the company achieve this goal. Then at the very end of the email about how to claim our gifts, there was a very short blurb,

fine print style that said it was a, quote, taxable benefit and may be reflected in your next paycheck. They didn't say anything in the meeting about how our compensation might be affected. We got our next paycheck, and I was shocked to see that it was $450, less than my usual paycheck. The pay stub showed it in earnings and deductions. My co-worker said their paychecks also had huge chunks taken out of them, and people on our Slack channels were upset, too. Plus, by the time we saw how it affected our take-home pay, the return window had closed. So our only option was to keep them, even though I wouldn't have bought them myself. They've given us expensive gifts before, like a Patagonia jacket and a $250 speaker, but it's never

been something that has resulted in me getting a smaller paycheck. HR responded to the complaints with essentially a shoulder shrug and we told you so. I know they technically told us, but it feels shady. Am I right to be annoyed by the lack of transparency of this gift? Yeah, I think this is really irritating. Why would someone want a gift they had to pay for? It's crazy. And I don't get it. I guess the gift was worth maybe the watch and the headphones were worth so much that $450 was a taxable percentage of that? They're getting it at a smaller rate, but then why present it as a gift? It should be presented.

A gift is something that you get and there's no strings attached. Like they should, they should have presented it as like an opportunity to buy these items at a lower cost. Right. Yes. If that was the case. That's exactly how it should have been presented. It's annoying to present, like the present, again, like, if this is what they wanted to do and this is what they wanted to offer, fine.

That's like, let's say that's all they could offer at that time, whatever. But then call it an opportunity. Right. Don't call it a gift. Don't bring it back to the first email. Like that's like the gaslighty thing about the first one. It's like you're saying it's a gift, but I'm paying for it. It's not a gift.

Right. And I could see if it was a deduction of $30 or something, but $400. $450 in one paycheck for, you know, these devices that you might not have picked or, and look, I assume since this is the first time it happened that probably the people who made this decision, I'm assuming they didn't realize what was going to happen in regards to this with payroll and all that. But I would definitely make a stink about it so that they realize what's happening and offer it up differently next time and just be very clear there's going to be a $450 deduction these gifts are worth

$1,000. Right. If you want it. Right. Let us know. Yeah. This was definitely shady. I would be really aggravated at this, but I guess, and I'm glad you wrote in because

if anyone else's company does this, now they're going to know that this is a thing that could happen. Totally. This is a coupon on gifts. Yes. So I think this is very triggering. I would be really irritated. I'd give this like, especially if it's too late to return it in the thing.

Like that's crazy. I would give it like a seven and a half. Yeah. I agree. And the HR coming back and saying, we told you so. It's like, no, you said there was going to be, it could be reflected in my paycheck. I would have read that and been like, all right, they're going to take out like $50 in tax or even less than that.

Some tax. salary tax. Right. That they're going to be, you know, I'm going to be deducted on this. But I don't even understand how much could these gifts be worth that $450 is the taxable portion of this. I don't know. Right. That it's like, and are they doing it because it's a write off for them? Like what is like what is the benefit to them in doing this? We need to get an accountant on here. I don't understand what this is. This sounds like a huge chunk being removed for. Right. Especially if they're presenting. it as like something that they've done to celebrate. Yeah.

Like, so here's a coupon in our, because we're making all this money. Very annoying. I don't get it. I am curious about this whole concept. Yeah, I agree.

Seven and a half. This feels like a big bait and switch kind of deal. Yeah. I'm sorry, this happened. But thanks for the public service announcement. For those of you out there, go to know.

And you will probably never be receiving any gifts again. Right. How about like, she'd been like, well, just take the money. Yeah, seriously. Okay, let's do one more. I will read it. Hi, Trudana and Dr. Naomi. You two are such a fun listen and I love hearing both of your perspectives each week. Writing to you with a trigger about a recent conversation with my sister. My sister is pregnant with her third child, all boys. She's extremely picky when it comes to baby names, which I totally get and is having a hard time coming up with ideas for the new baby.

She called me the other day to run a new name idea by me that she likes but wanted the green light for me first because it's my ex-boyfriend's name. It was a situation where I thought we'd get married someday and he ended the relationship after a year and a half. He has a distinct name that you don't hear all that often, which is what makes it a little weird. I know that the name would take on a totally new meaning once it's my nephews, but it's hard for me to imagine. Ultimately, I told her she can absolutely use it. He doesn't own the name after all. but how triggered can I be? I thought there's a great one.

Yeah. Because I could see both sides. Yes. Yes. I could, look, you can be triggered. Validate that this is triggering, right? Just the idea of this. Do I think you should have said no?

Do I think there's any world in which you could say no? No. I don't. And I think it's going to be good for you to create a new association with this name. I agree. Listen, And sister knows it's weird. I think the fact that she asked you makes it much less triggering.

Like if the baby was just born and she was like, it's the name. And she didn't acknowledge that it's like your ex-boyfriend's name. I think the fact that she was like, hey, because if I were her, let's say I've heard of this name because my sister had a boyfriend. I just like love the name. And I've been thinking about it for all these years. But I'm like, but I know it's weird. I would do the same thing.

I think I'd be like, he's not in the picture anymore. So it's like less weird because it's not. like he's like part of our family. Right. I know it's weird. I know it could be hurtful. This person did hurt my sister. So I'm going to just ask her and see if she thinks it's okay.

And if she does, I think if she said no, I think the sister would pick a different name. Right. I actually think this is a great example of like, you know, doing some exposure therapy around this to help change her association with this name. And I think this can happen with a lot of different things. But in this case, it's kind of like she would. Will, I guarantee you, within six months of this baby's existence on earth, she's no longer going to have that intense reaction or association to the name and her ex.

And it might be actually a good thing in the long run to move on and create a new association. But it's a little, I could hear, I could see like hearing the name and you think of, you know, she says the breakup was pretty traumatic. Right. He broke up with her. I could see like that initial moment of feeling like. Like, I don't like this. And that's okay too.

Yes. Especially if it's a unique name that you don't hear that often. She probably hasn't had to. Like, you know, if you broke up with Mike, right. You'd probably be exposed or like if I broke up with Jeff. Like that's very common name that you hear a lot and you don't have that same like gut reaction to any time you hear the name Mike or Jeff or. or, you know, these like very common names. If this guy has a unique name, anytime you hear it,

she's instantly thinking about this person, which I think happens for anyone who has a unique name. Right. I think here's the thing. So if I wanted to name my kid after one of your ex-boyfriends, would you be okay with that? Yeah, I mean, I would have. Would you want me to call you?

Yes, I probably would. would. I mean, I would have that initial gut thing of like, uh, right. But that's okay. You can handle that. Like you can. Yeah. It was nice that she asked her. I do think it would probably taint the, the experience of meet baby, whatever. And all of a sudden, you'd be like, oh, my gosh, are you serious? So like, I do think it's great that she told her ahead of time. And I think that is a respectful thing to do. If you named your baby after one of my exes, I probably would have that initial like, ugh, feeling. Right. But within a couple weeks, that's just your nephew and that's his name, you know. Right. And even with your ex-boyfriend, that would probably be like 20 years ago that you did.

Like, this was like probably like she's, the way she's saying it, sounds like it was like three years ago. Right. Right. And maybe she's, I don't know if she's still single. If that's like a relatively fresh. I, yeah. Yeah. I validate it. I totally do. It's anything. You get that association.

You can get that with like a car or, you know, certainly a name, but there's all these things. Like if I still, to this day, if I see a car that was like my ex-boyfriend's car from 20 years ago, I'm like, oh, right. Right. Like I still, it still pops into your head, you know. Yeah. I agree. I think if this was, if the baby came out, she never said anything. baby and she announced the baby's name as the ex without acknowledging it, I would give this like a

seven. Yes. I think the fact that she's asking seems like she's giving, she's basically saying I won't use it if you're uncomfortable. I'd give it like a four, four and a half just because like it, it does feel weird. It doesn't mean it's a sister's fault. If I were the sister, I'd probably want to use it anyway. Right. If I really like the name. Yes. And she said she's picky about names, which almost everybody is. But like, I do think this is a perfect example of like the, this is triggering in the sense that it's like probably literally creating a sensation in her body of discomfort. So like this is a perfect example of this thing is triggering, but it doesn't mean anyone's doing anything wrong. And it doesn't mean that this shouldn't still happen the way that it's

happening. It's triggering and you need to kind of just handle the fact that you're triggered. So as far as like that feeling of like this is uncomfortable, this is upsetting, I wish it wasn't happening. Yeah, I really validate that. Like I, you know, that initial moment, you know, would probably feel like a seven. But I think the idea that someone's doing something wrong or that you, you know, you need to do something about it or change it or stop it from happening or someone messed up, I agree with you.

I think it's more like a four. Yeah. All right. Validated. Yeah. But it's a good one though. It's a good question. It's a good question. Yeah. I think if we talk to you in a year, you're going to have lost that association, which is a beautiful thing. Agreed.

All right. I think we did it. That's all we have for today. That's it. We solved everyone's problems. All right. That's our time. Great work today. Betches.