Oversharing - Can Ozempic Make You Happier?

Episode Date: March 3, 2026

As Jordana prepares for the birth of her second child, she and Dr. Naomi unpack how social media is engineered to spike anxiety, especially as Jordana gears up for labor. One listener writes in about her chronically grumpy father-in-law who’s suddenly sunshine and light after starting Ozempic, and she’s left wondering what to do with her lingering resentment now that he’s a “new person.”  Another Betch has been excluded from a splashy upcoming family vacation and can’t decide what stings more: not being invited or the fact that the trip sounds like her personal nightmare. After a stretch of sleepless nights and draining workdays, one woman asks how to stop beating herself up when she just can’t seem to lull herself to sleep. A Valentine’s Day dinner is interrupted by her brother-in-law’s persistent phone calls, leaving another listener questioning whether her irritation is justified. And finally, a new mom finds herself cast as the default babysitter for every baby at a family gathering—and wants validation that her unpaid labor isn’t just invisible, it’s expected. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or mental health professional. Hello, welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

Going good. Been thinking about you. I've been thinking about, I know we are pre-recording a lot of these to get prepared for your maternity leave, but this is one of our last ones before the big day. So yeah, big days, I guess. Yeah, it feels like weird. I'm, uh, I'm going to, uh, the induction for my surrogate, um, this week. So it feels very like surreal. Again, this comes out in March. So this will already have happened and hopefully everything went smooth. And yeah,

you know, I still have this, I still have this weird like jinxy feeling like even though so far along and like, whatever your fear is, somehow the algorithm knows. Yes. Oh my gosh. It really does.

It just goes to show like your fears are so manifested in your like scrolling and clicking behavior. Um, more than anything, more than like, I mean, maybe a little bit if you're excited for something or a vacation or I guess you probably get a lot of baby item stuff. Yeah. And I get some like cute golden retriever shit too. So that's nice there too. I get a lot of cute stuff. But then you get a lot of like your largest fears that are like horrendous birth stories or like, you know, horrible labor situations. And so. And it's weird. Even like the articles that I get. I mean, I still like peruse Facebook. I'm 100 years old. I get fed like these articles of like these

crazy things happening. And it does feel like, again, I'm very excited, but there is like this weird. I think from the years of like probably like all the like fertility trauma of like don't, you know, until until you're holding her like it's not it's not a done deal yet. So it's definitely, you know, it's tough because you do want to like live in the moment. And this is the really, this is probably like one of most exciting times because it's like right before. So you have none of the responsibility and all the excitement. Yes. Totally. And I would love to be like in the moment, but it definitely, every time I like get to, there's like a little voice in my head that's like, let's just wait and see. Right. Yeah. I totally get that. It makes a lot of sense. And you're doing it twice too. So you have like two births to navigate.

You know, not like two births to worry about. Even when you get through the first one, you still have you know, your own birth. So like it's, it's, it's, I could see how that feels really overwhelming. Sometimes it's, there are these, I don't know what these stories are that you're seeing, but like if you can be sent, like almost, um, a little paranoid about it, like when you see like a fear mongering language on a headline for you to just almost be like, leave me alone. Like there are like evil powers at B that are trying to get you. Like if I open my mail app right now, I get this a lot through my mail app for some reason.

And I scroll through here, there's going to be some like, you know, six year old shot in the head or something like headline. Right. And then you scroll on it and it was like, you know, maybe it was like from five years ago.

They just want you to click on something just to get you to click. and they know what's going to make you click on this story. It could be, you know, I don't know who's serving you up this stuff, but like. Instagram mostly. Yeah. Because if you look at one video too long, then they're like, we got it. Gotcha. Yeah.

And then I get, you know, then it becomes, I think, because you're then fed all that stuff, you're like, oh, this is very common or not as uncommon as maybe if you didn't see anything or if this was 20 years ago before social media or you were fed anything. you literally just saw everyone saw the same headlines in the newspaper everyone got the same stuff yes obviously this is like huge with like politics and things like that but you're fed the stuff that's going to activate you that's going to make you look longer totally um so it feels like there's a lot more of it than there probably really is right and which is why we have such an anxious culture like i know our brother josh was always talking about how he would make

these really well-balanced, like well-thought-out kind of political posts. And it wouldn't gain any, they were like really great, kind of like nuanced thoughts about politics. And they wouldn't gain any traction because they weren't like amping anybody up. So people are going to click on the stuff that really pisses you off or scares the crap out of you. And not the stuff that's like, oh, wow, that was really a lovely thought about, you know, whatever it is or like a very pleasant birth story. Like you're probably not going to click on that because you're like, there's no headlines about that. Right. There's no news stories about.

Women peacefully gives birth to healthy baby. Yeah. Okay. Right. That doesn't scare me enough. I'm not clicking on that. No, it's true. And my psychiatrist was like, I think you should probably just speak to people you know about their birth stories.

if you're looking for more experiences because that's just going to be like a lot closer to the general population. Yes. Then again, what you're being fed on. Right. Totally. Even on Reddit or any of those.

Yeah. I'm sorry that you're feeling so nervous. That's not a happy, joyful, peaceful feeling. But don't, you know, I hear you kind of maybe like I should be, you know, this or I should be feeling peaceful or I should be feeling excited and hopeful, like, whatever. Like, this is a stressful time. You've been through a lot. So I would just ride it out.

Like I told you this many, many months ago. Like, I have been picturing you holding at the time it was only one baby girl. But I have been picturing you holding this baby for a long time. So just I'm sending all that to you. I know it's going to happen for you. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate the manifestation. I think it is, you know, again, your words are like spells. It's going to go. I've been listening to a like an audible, sort of like a guided meditation about labor and like delivery and stuff I've been listening to before I go to bed or at least as long as I'm staying up. That kind of like walks you through. there's both like positive like affirmations for like a healthy birth and then there's like the like guided imagery. Oh yeah, beautiful. Which I think can help. You know, there's like that stuff like

hypno birthing and right. Do you have like a serious birth plan either for you or for your surrogate? Like are you kind of trying to micromanage? Definitely not. I mean she's that for me I'm like you this is her fifth pregnancy. I'm like, you are the expert here. I'm not. And it's also, it's your body. Like, you know what works for you. I have more of a plan for my own. I'm just kind of like, you know, once the baby's born, then it's like all the decisions are mine. But I kind of see it as, you know, I defer to the expert here. Right. Yeah. Totally. Totally. That makes perfect sense. But I could see some people being like, I would like my baby to be born into this environment. And I'm going to control. But like, yeah, she's got to get the baby out healthy. Whatever's going to help her.

I agree with that. Yeah. And I think if there's anything that my, you know, the struggles that I've taken to get to this moment have taught me, it's that like all of those details to me are like cherry on top, fluff, whatever. Like it's would be, I'm like, if she's born and she's healthy and everything's good. She wants to listen to heavy metal music while the baby's coming out. whatever flows your boat. I mean, there's like, it's nice, the nice thing about surrogacy and using like an agency and everything.

There's like a, there's a sheet that you fill out. It's like, it's like the surrogates, preferences, and then your preferences. For the birth. For the birth. And it's not really like music, but it's like, what's like who,

who holds the baby like when they're born? Like, what's the order? Mm-hmm. Who cuts the court, whatever X, Y, Z shots for. Right, right. So you can fill out ahead of time And then they fill out theirs. And then if there's any like things that don't align, you can kind of discuss them

before. So you're not kind of in the moment in the room being like, all right, she's born. Who do we give her to? Right. Okay. Great. Yeah. They think of everything.

This is great. I'm so glad that, uh, that you're doing this. Ah, so exciting. I just can't believe it's here by the time you are all listening to this. I'm manifesting it. There will be two healthy baby girls. I'm putting it. out there and yeah so so so excited i am i am very excited and again like there's like most it's like

70% excitement and like 30% superstitious fear yeah i guess yeah 30% like another part of me trying to like wrangle that don't get too excited yeah yeah not done until it's done or whatever but like that's annoying like i don't yeah you know my therapist has me like talk to that that side of me. Yeah. And be like, thank you for trying to protect me. Yes. I appreciate that.

It's not helping me. Also, and you have nothing to do with this. Like voice in my head. Like you have no power here. Right. Right. You are powerless. So just back off.

Right. I appreciate you. But yeah, you have no power here. And yeah, I would just try not to click on all that. I think about that all the time where even like if I see, I don't know, like a pair of jeans or something that looks. cute. I'm like, don't look too long. Don't click on that. Like they're going to, you're going to fed it. They're going to like shove it down my throat.

Until you buy it. Yeah. So I'm very like, whenever I consume any type of media, especially social media, I'm so like aware of the presence of the the powers that be. So that's a good thing. Yeah. So maybe if you could just kind of be like, all right, I'm going to just even to like get you out of here. I'm going to scroll as quickly past this as I can. Right. You know that it does when it, when it is like something that they're trying to sell you, it is, there is this weird feeling of empowerment when you can do that because you're like, you didn't get me. Get out of here. Flick. I won this. Yeah. Yes. Totally. So that's nice. But then sometimes you say that and then they, they feed you the same ad like four more times than you buy it. And you're like, fine. Fine. Fine. You got me.

Right. I resisted you once, but three times, no chance. That's enough. Yeah. I guess that's why they pay to do all those ads. Yeah. All right. Well, let's get into some people's issues. All right. Let's do it. And you'll have more updates from me on how this all went, hopefully on the other side.

Oh, my gosh. I can't wait. If you're bored, if it's a long labor and you want to FaceTime me in, I am happy to be there. Yeah. I definitely will. I love that. Hopefully your schedule on Friday is not that busy. me after like 130. Okay.

All right. Maybe she'll be done by then. That would be great. Oh my gosh. That'd be amazing. All right. Let's get into it. If you guys have a voicemail that you want to leave, you can call 646-36-36-26294. I love these voicemails. They really give a lot of

feeling to the emails. But emails are also great. Oversharing at betches.com. Either way, you want to contact us. We love seeing your submissions. We get such great ones. And if you would like to subscribe, you get two bonus episodes a month. You get all the episodes ad free in a day early. And while I'm out on leave, I will still be doing the subscriber episodes as well, like, and more in real time.

Like, a lot of these are a lot of these are recorded ahead because a lot of the stuff we talked about here is kind of like evergreen. But those will be a little bit more real time. So if you're looking for some updates, some personal therapy sessions for me that I'm sure I'll need. We're going to get some of the real raw, right in the midst of it material. So I'm excited for those. Hopefully you guys subscribe so you can listen to. I don't think there's anyone out there that in the first few weeks after either giving birth or getting, you know, having a baby in any way, shape, or form that is not, that there's not, you're like fully changed. And it changes like day to day.

week to week. Like, you know, I see people like that right after the baby comes out, it's like, they're like lying high, like on cloud nine. And then three days later, you're like, what did I do? I can't handle this. And then two days later, you're like, oh, my God, they made a sound. And it's so cute. So like, yeah. Right. And this is going to be such an interesting, I think, experience because I'm going to be like, I'm going to have one. And then like, I'm going to have two. soon after, but I wonder if I'm going to be like, oh, my God, what did I do? Like when I'm about to have the second one, probably are. I mean, my first two are 18 months apart.

And I know that after Maddie was born, who's my middle, there were definitely moments where I was like, we made a mistake. Like, we can't do. What were we thinking? Like, this is too hard. And now they're great. And they're best friends. And they're so sweet.

And like they, it's just amazing. So just you got to write out those little moments. They're all moments, the good, the bad, and the in between. And I actually remember you saying that whenever I'm getting like a little stressed, you know, like about the idea of it or like, you know, people say things to you to like scare you. Yeah. Whenever I, I do think about how, you know, that story of how you did feel like, what did I do? I could picture it.

I could picture where I was. I could picture the moment. She was in this little swing. And she, all night, she was just making this. like really irritating grunting sound all night. And I was like, I'm going to pull my hair out. This grunting little piggy will not stop and let me sleep. Now she's adorable and great. And we like, we're in the hot tub last night, like having girl talk. And it's all just a phase. Yeah. I'm going to remember that. You're just going to keep telling me that story when I call you. Yeah. And then also the how can they

join one of your groups? Yeah. So come find us. Naomi Bernstein.com. We have lots of fun challenges that we've done. We've done one of our listeners today is concerned about screen time. So we do, you know, kind of phone challenges, how to back off of screen time. We are accountable. Everyone comes in each week, kind of reporting what works and what doesn't. We've done a buy nothing. Oh, I remember that. Yeah. So those are good after the holidays when you're trying to rein in the credit card bills and, yeah, lots of fun. just ego identity stuff, trying to figure out who you really are, your authentic self underneath all the noise. Little things like that. Little things like dissolving your ego on a Monday night.

Not buying a daily coffee and changing, you know, the way you see yourself for your entire life. Just lots of fun stuff. And of course, just the community. Like everyone really, really genuinely cares for each other. Like I get emails all the time from one group member to another, like reaching out, hey, I have this resource for this person or please just tell so. and so I was thinking about them. And it just feels like you have a little tribe. You have a little crew that you know every week at the same time. You're going to meet up and just kind of find that piece and community.

So come find us. Come join a group. Naomi Bernstein.com. All right. Check it out. Let's get into our first email. Hi, Dr. Bernstein and Jordan.

I'm a huge fan of the podcast and listen every week. This is my first time writing it. I've known my father-in-law for about six years. and for most of that time, he's been grumpy, rude, and short-tempered. I've always thought of him as a pretty unhappy person who took that unhappiness out on the people around him. My husband has a very strained relationship with his father and often talks about how he felt like he was constantly walking on eggshells growing up. He also has a lot of memories of his dad belittling his mother, often bringing her to tears. This year, though, my father-in-law started Ozempic, has lost a significant amount of weight.

His mood has improved drastically. the last few times I've seen him. He's been upbeat, positive, and clearly trying very hard to be pleasant around me. Objectively, I have very little to complain about. Here's where I'm struggling. How do I emotionally accept this new version of him when I spent so many years being on the receiving end of his negativity? Just because he's happier now, I feel like I'm suddenly expected to reset and build a

relationship and I'm having a hard time letting go of the resentment from the last decade. Am I supposed to just accept this new reality and move forward? How do you rebuild something with someone who caused so much damage when they seem better now? But the past still feels very real. Thank you so much. I'd love your thoughts. It's hard to let go, especially if it's left unaddressed. Like it's almost just swept the last 10 years of you being a jerk every time I saw you

was just swept under the rug now. Right. That is hard to move on from. I really do get that. But maybe he was just really hungry. It's very bad mood. You know, it's funny, I have heard, like, anecdotally, obviously not based on any evidence that I've seen or read or done anything. But I have heard a lot of people who have gone on Ozempic are in a better mood.

Are like, are happier. And I mean, it feels like weird to say or like should, you know, just because I think the idea is like, oh, you're thinner and so you're happier. But I think there's like some other element of it too. Or maybe it's just this like this thing that took up so much space in your brain that you're now free to not think of. about that does maybe like improve other areas of your life. Yeah. Yeah, I think I don't know, but I have heard the same thing. I think it's sad to say, but I think there's like a self-loathing that is kind of because

our culture or however you feel about yourself where you feel like if you aren't in a body that you feel okay about, then not only are you critical of your body, but you're critical of all of these choices that you do or don't make throughout your day that you believe lead to that body. So even if you're not doing anything maybe that differently, you're thinking, oh, I should have gone to the gym and I'm so lazy and I didn't, or you're thinking I ate that thing and now I feel bad And I feel like, you know, I don't have willpower or like I'm defective in some way. So I do think like feeling better about the container that you're walking around in just, you know, kind of reduces those that self-talk around self-loathing or shame.

And I've said so many times that that idea of shame as like the poison of human nature, like that is just like the dark clouds. So I think that does help people feel a little bit less shameful, which I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I guess it's objectively a good thing, right? Interestingly enough, like he's now nicer to you because he probably feels better about himself. So it just is kind of, well, I get where she's coming from, but I would use this as like an example of what happens in human nature. The people that are mean and grumpy and cranky and rude are just feeling a way about themselves. It's not really about you.

Hurt people, hurt people, as they say. Exactly. So you can take it all of you, all of you out there listening, that person that was mean to you, that person that excluded you, that person that, you know, whatever, that that's not about you. It's about them. So if we can remember that, it can help us then not absorb that. Now we feel shameful or we feel self-loathing because, oh, this person's mean to me because they don't think I did, made the right choice or I didn't post the right thing on social media

or maybe I, it's let that, it's their, that's their issue, not taking this also personally. So I get it, but I would just be like, great. I'm going to pay it forward. I'm going to take his good mood. I'm going to absorb that. And then I'm going to, you know, kind of inject more positivity into the universe based on that. And you could even, I don't know what you're late. I mean, it sounds like she's known for 10 years.

Maybe they have like that kind of relationship where I think she could say, like, you seem like you're in a really great mood lately. Like what's changed? Right. Open up a dialogue about it. Yeah. And maybe he'll express regret for the way that he was. before if it's brought up again in a way that wasn't like suddenly very suddenly so positive someone's in a good moon right um yeah

i agree there's it if he is softening inside around all of whatever this changes for him i think that's a great idea i would open up a dialogue of like it's been really nice spending time with you lately you just seem you know like you're in a better place emotionally and it's been like in a positive way And maybe that will open up something where he might have an opportunity to apologize. Because if he does want to acknowledge or apologize, it is kind of awkward just to bring it up out of the blue. Right. Sorry, I've spent my entire life being. Exactly.

Right. Most people don't want to say or even admit that, especially when you're at a past a certain age. But I also think it's interesting where it's like she's almost annoyed that he's being. Yeah. And I do think there's a part of us. that likes the box that we were able to put people in. And like for someone to suddenly decide they're changing that box, like she's probably been like, you know,

having a little bit of fun with the my father, my father-in-law is kind of a douchebag. Totally. I think people do that all the time where there's almost something satisfying. If you and Mike go out to dinner with, I don't know, a colleague and his wife or something like that, and you make an observation, you decide, oh, she's obnoxious or I don't like her.

This is the thing. You make an observation. There's something satisfying about then seeing it like again. Yes. Oh, my God. And again. Oh, my God. Did you see she did the thing?

That's the exact thing. I knew she was going to do that thing. It's like there's this scratchy, itchy, satisfying thing of like watching someone be the person that you've thought that they are. And but that really, I mean, I've caught myself doing that. I think it's really not good for you. It's not good for them. It's not good for like this, you know, it just rehearses this narrative.

Then your eyes are tuned to the negativity on that person. Yes. And you have that confirmation bias, which is like, okay, I think this is going to happen. So I'm more apt to seeing this happen. It feels like acknowledging that that person has done. done something good or acted not in that way is for is forgiving everything they've done before by not continue that's almost like you see this with politicians I think all the time um or people's you know views on a politician who is a conservative or a politician who's a liberal who

suddenly does something sort of like different than their party expected right where the other side is never like it was so great that they did that thing they're like they're like Who cares that they did that thing? What about all that other shit that they have been doing for years? Totally, totally, which is why I do think the acknowledgement or the apology, like even if you think about a family member or a friend or someone, like if this hypothetical colleague's wife would come to you and say, you know what, I really was in such a bad mood that time when I met you and I feel terrible

and it wasn't nice the way I spoke to the waiter or whatever it was. then the next time you're more apt to like look for the change or look if they're kind of being vulnerable about it and coming to you like there are certain people where you are kind of looking for the positive or you have a motivation to find the positive change and there are some people where you don't so it's important if you're out there listening to notice the people in your life and notice, like, am I looking for the positive in them or am I looking for this confirming negative in them? And for this particular listener, I think she's kind of like, there is all this positive. It's knocking me over the head, but I almost, I didn't get enough acknowledgement of

the other thing to accept that we've just moved on. Right. I would really try to accept this new him and be, you know, this is his life too. If you want to feel, you know, happy for him that he's going to live out the last, you know, few chapters with a better mindset. And I would talk to your husband about it too, I think, because he's the one that seems like really struggled with this. I think he can validate some of this for you, which might be helpful. Like, yes, this really happened. Yes, you were really a jerk for all these years. And yes, we can welcome in the new you. Yeah, and maybe there's some other stuff besides the OZMPIC that's making him change his tune. Maybe he's secretly going to therapy.

Who knows? Yes. Honestly, there's like changes that might occur around that same time. You know, like I'm going to make a bunch of changes in my life. One of them is OZMPIC, but others might be, you know, maybe he had some kind of awakening. So, but yeah, it's really interesting to think about the lens through which we, observe other people's behaviors. Hopefully, you know, he stays this way, keeps getting his prescription renewed. I hope so too. All right. Let's do a betchaicist. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi,

huge fans of you both love the pod and congrats on this motherhood chapter, Jordana. I'm writing in because I'm not sure if what I'm feeling is a valid reaction or just old wounds being activated. And I need help untangling the two. I'm in my 40s and have an adult child. My family dynamics have always been complicated. My mom and sister are extremely close and my sister, who's 10 years younger than me and I don't get along. When she's around, I often feel invisible and like a third wheel. My parents live very close to me, so I see them often, but when my sister visits for holidays, no one pays attention or asks me about my life or experience. This all came to a head on Christmas morning. We were opening gifts when my sister gave my mom a book about African culture.

I casually asked if she was planning a trip to Africa. Silence. After a couple more unanswered questions, it came out that they'd all planned a family trip together, mom, dad, sister, without me, without my son. I was completely blindsided and felt shocked, rejected, and honestly humiliated, especially realizing it had been deliberately kept from me. The confusing part is that I don't actually want to go on this trip. traveling with my family would be miserable for me.

This isn't about wanting an invitation so I could say yes. It's about not being considered at all or feeling pushed out of the family plan entirely. Since then, I've been spiraling between, of course, this hurts, anyone would be hurt. And is this just my abandonment stuff talking? So my questions are, do I have a right to feel this hurt even though I wouldn't have wanted to go? How do I tell the difference between a legitimate emotional injury and old wounds being activated. And then, I don't want to do family events with her present anymore. Am I being immature for deciding I don't want to do holidays with my family anymore? How do I tell them that I don't

want to do this anymore? I don't know if I need affirmations, advice, or permission to stop forcing myself into spaces where I feel unseen. But I'd really appreciate your perspective. Thank you for holding space for these messy family truths, a betch who's tired of pretending she's fine. This is an one. It's very much like I don't want to go, but I also want to be invited, which I think is how we all feel about a lot of things. I need four pages of backstory here. I feel like there's a bunch of missing stuff, why she doesn't get along with the sister, why the sister has this, you know, super close dynamic with the parents. It sounds like she has a good, I think the hurtful part of this is that she does have a good relationship. with her parents when the sister's not around. If it was like the whole thing was just kind of strained, it would feel like, okay, maybe I will accept that this is just how it is, but it's almost like, why didn't you plan this with me separately and you planned it with her?

Right. It does feel odd to not extend an invitation to like one of your kids and just do the other. If you live close to them and you do speak to them. Right. She's probably going to be watering the plants while they're in Africa. And it's funny because I could see how this could happen if they're like, she would never go to that. So I'm not even going to invite her.

Maybe they've invited her to. She doesn't really say maybe they've invited her to other things that she's consistently said no to. Sometimes when you say no to enough events, people stop inviting you places. I don't know if that was the case. She says she has a good relationship. But now she's like, I never want to speak. I feel like I agree with you. There is something missing from the story of the dynamics here.

There's, it's something between the two sisters. It feels like the parents are taking sides. Like, it sounds like the, the conflict is between the sisters and the parents are kind of in the middle. And maybe the, you know, because the listener lives closer, there's inherently, I think for a lot of parents, and I'll speak for myself and just in general parenting, there's this pull to want to treat everyone kind of equally or to like balance the scales. I think if she lives close to the listener lives close to the parents and the sister lives further away, there might be this like, we've got to throw a party every time she's here. We've got to listen to every word that she says to make up for this distance, which probably makes the dynamic between these two sisters even worse.

Right. Because whenever they're together, there's this association that the listener has of like, I had yesterday we had a thing. And now when she's here, the thing is totally different. I'm like the forgotten one. Well, you know, it's interesting. I was reading, I think, I didn't read the full article,

but I read like a New York Times, I think it was her Wall Street Journal, like Instagram post about an article they put up that basically was like a study that they did that said that parents actually do have a favorite. Right. Oh my gosh. Just yesterday. I'm giving the kids a kiss good night. And I'm telling Brooks how much I love.

love him and like, oh, I love you so much. Like, you know, whatever. And he's like, am I your favorite? So they, and they ask this all the time. And we've, is he? You could tell me. No, I don't have a favorite. What we've decided is that there might be a different favorite each day, which I think is

kind of how it feels sometimes. Like, you know, on a certain day, a certain kid just feels like you're vibing more with that kid. And then on a different day, you're vibing more with a different kid. kid. Right. Maybe it's different if your kids are like massively different in how difficult they are. I feel like your kids are all pretty like similar. Like they all pretty generally pretty good. Occasionally have their moments. Yeah. They all have their different moments that are right. That there are different levels of difficulty. Right. But overall. But I wonder if like one was just much,

much more difficult. And I also think it probably changes when you have adult children where you're kind of like, they're fully formed now. You know, like there's no more molding them or like helping them kind of turn into the person that they're going to be. Like they're kind of done and now I can evaluate the finished product. Right. And in that evaluation, I don't know. I'm personally not there yet.

I don't, I mean, in my practice, I don't, I do hear like most of the time what I would venture to guess is your favorite is the one that's more loving and affectionate. and kind. It's like a narcissistic probably thing. Like the kid that's like the closest to you that makes you feel like you're a great parent. So that's why I would love, if this listener, if you want to come on and talk about this, because I love this concept of like adult sibling rivalry. I think it's under talked about. It's a huge part of a lot of people's lives that it's like, you're not really going to go to therapy with your sister or your sister. Or your sibling, but it can really affect you, especially if you were once close and you're not close

anymore. So if you want to come in to a to a calm the fuck down and talk about this, I'd love to hear more about it. But again, that's interesting for this listener to reflect on. It's like, what is your role in this dynamic where you also agree that you don't want to go on vacation with them. And I don't hear anywhere in this email where she's saying, I would love to go away alone with my parents. Maybe she would and maybe that's a fix. Like, maybe you could plan a trip alone with them. I get it. Maybe all of you together is not going to work anymore. Fine. But if you're also not wanting to be around them in the context of a vacation and your sister is, then they're picking up on that energy, whatever that is, that like rejection type energy of like, I have firm boundaries.

I don't want to go on vacation together. This is, if that's part of what you're feeling, then, and I'm not saying this in a way to be like, you're the problem, but you almost are like, okay, this is the dynamic that I'm comfortable in. Right. So I have to accept this dynamic. Yeah. And it does seem like her desire to like not be at any more family holidays or see anyone does seem like a little vindictive.

Like it's not because of, well, if I'm not going to be appreciated, I don't want to have anything to do with these people. And I don't know if whether that, I don't know if it came up during this Christmas gift when they were discussing the trip. Like, did you bring it up? How did you bring it up? Like, how did this, I think, I think the details of this trip are very important. How did this trip come to be?

Is everyone paying for themselves? Are the parents taking her? Right. Maybe she's having a hard time. Maybe I don't know. she said she's 10 years older. It sounds like she has a son. I don't know if she's partnered.

I don't know if her sister is. Like, is there a need for more resources for her? Like, I think it would be important to get a lot of details about how the trip came on. Right. I do agree. It is weird and would feel strange to be like the family minus me is going on a huge trip and didn't mention it or invite me. Yeah.

And almost was like trying to hide it until the last possible moment. I totally validate that, but I think the fact that you don't want to go and they didn't invite you, there's like the unspoken truth there. They know you wouldn't want to go and you didn't want to go. So that's why I think that probably that's simply why she wasn't invited because it would have been awkward for her to say no. It would have been if she did say yes, everyone knows that it probably wouldn't go well. But I think the bigger question for this listener is, why didn't you want to go? Maybe there is a piece of like what you're bringing to the table with this family dynamic. Maybe you're not affirming your parents or you're not showing love to them or maybe there is a, you know, I guess the fear is that there's a favoritism for the sister.

There's a choosing sides there. So there's a lot of complicating factors. I would love to hear more about it. But we've had a listener also write in about, you know, she has two kids, I think, of 10 years apart. And the way she parented the first one was very different than the way she parented the second one because they were at a different phase of their life. And maybe it creates a different dynamic. And there's different resentments and stuff from like the way the first kid is being raised. So I think there's probably a lot going on there and that.

A hundred percent. I do think that most parents are a little bit better, unless there's a, external change like substance abuse or illness or something like that, you make your mistakes on the first kid for the most part. And then you kind of figure it out a little bit more by the time you get down the line. Um, you know, again, unless there's like external factors that are, you know, weighing in if all else the same. So yeah, that birth order stuff in 10 years between this is juicy. Come talk to us. I want to figure out what's going on here and, um, perhaps help you navigate, I think it also depends. Like, do you want, even taking your sister out of the equation,

do you want to be closer to your parents? Do you want to be able to go on a trip with them with your son? Is that something that you would enjoy or look forward to or want to make happen? And if that's the case, then let's figure out what's going on with them taking your sister out of the equation. Because it seems kind of if you boil it down, it's as simple as the sister would enjoy this trip and you wouldn't. So that's part of why you're saying that. They know that. That's the big dark truth of why you weren't invited that everyone kind of agrees on.

But the bigger question is why wouldn't you enjoy it? Right. Maybe you guys don't vibe like you were saying with the favorites. Yeah. But it sounds like they do the way she describes it. They spend time together and they see each other a lot. And I am assuming she's okay with it if she's spending time. with them. It's something about the sister being around. So her other question is like, how do I not do

do family holidays anymore? How do I say that? I think you're probably being reactive. I get why this is painful to think you were excluded. It's like one of the basic human emotions that's really hard to tolerate as like being left out or excluded. So I get why this feels like in this moment. This was just Christmas. it wasn't that long ago, like, why you feel this need to be like, I can't be around this. But if like three times a year, you have to be around this sister, if you are feeling good and confident about your relationship with your parents outside of when your sister's around, I think you should be able to tolerate a couple times a year being around your sister. And maybe, again, maybe when the sister's in town, she gives off a certain vibe herself that

makes the parents kind of like, I'm just not going to touch that. I don't want to do this. Yeah. Or like this is an uncomfortable dynamic. That's why I would love to unpack like the sister relationship. And you know, it's like my personal least favorite thing is when my kids aren't getting along. It's really hard. You're in the middle. But I get this. Hurtful. Check. Agree. Validated. Give us a follow up over sharing at betches.com or you. And let us know if you're if you're willing to come on the subscription up. All right. Let's do some intentions.

I'll read them. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I'd love your help with an intention for insomnia. I've had trouble falling and staying asleep for as long as I can remember. It's always hard to turn my brain off. Lately, I've been in a particularly rough stretch of bad sleep. I feel like my awareness of my insomnia

is only making it worse. I just can't help not to over-try to fall asleep. I'll do all the sleep hygiene tactics, meditating, stretching, boring podcasts, leaving the room, mindless TV, etc. Then I'm super upset when they fail and I'm left agonizing over how I'm going to survive the day. It's a bad cycle.

What can I tell myself when I'm feeling this stuck and frustrated? I just can't seem to accept when I'm going to be sleeping two to three hours at night, especially during the work week. I'm a relatively new mental health therapist. I always think of Dr. Naomi's story of the therapist who fell asleep in session in a job where I'm sitting all day listening in a comfy chair. I can totally see this happening to me. help. Thanks so much. A Sleepy Batch. I hear this too. I'm sure. I think this is a human condition

that we've all experienced at least one point or another, but definitely as a therapist, and like I said, for those of you that didn't hear many years ago, I was in therapy and the therapist like was literally eyes closed, like head tilted, like falling asleep during the session. and I never, ever, ever, ever wanted that to be me. So even to this day, when I have my evening sessions, you know, I work sometimes, you know, until 9 o'clock at night. And I will almost always try to take like a little power nap before my evenings just to kind of like, that's how I personally reset because of that experience. And so I get it as someone who's like having a one-on-one where someone's really intimately sharing their intense feelings. The last thing you ever want to do is fall asleep and the fear of that as a mental health practitioner is real.

So validated. And I can also relate to what she's saying in terms of like, you know all the good practices. You're trying to implement them. Sometimes it just like does not work. Yes. Because that's the annoying thing about all the sleep. you get because like sometimes you do it all and you're still lying there and then you're kind of like I already did the sleep meditation and the no phone and the blackout shades and I'm just now

I'm just here thinking about this all night and it there's nothing I can do. Totally. When you're trying to control these like processes in your body that are supposed to be automatic, it can feel like you really get into this vicious cycle. Like this isn't so dissimilar to me than people that struggle with like erectile dysfunction where it's like I'm worried about not getting it up and what's going to happen if it doesn't work and it's going to be so embarrassing. And in this case, it's like I'm going to be exhausted all day. I'm not going to function well.

Or in that case, it's like I'm going to be mortified. I'm not going to be, you know, I'm going to get into the shame cycle. And so I'm thinking really hard about I hope it works. It better work. and then, of course, you're thinking about it. And so therefore, you're stressing yourself out and then it doesn't work. So you're trying to control these automatic processes that are supposed to just kind of happen naturally. And then when you do that, you probably end up making it worse, which is what everyone who's experienced insomnia feels.

So my advice is to allow yourself to come to the realization that you can refuel. you can rest without actually falling asleep. And that might take the pressure over actually sleeping and just allow you to be like, okay, this is going to refuel my brain. This is going to refuel my body. I can rest and recharge even if I don't actually fall into unconscious sleep. I can rest just by being still. I can rest by lying here and quiet.

I can rest in this moment where I have nothing that I, have to do. And even in all the strategies that you try, instead of looking at them as like, these are strategies that are not working, looking at them as like, I am resting as I am doing these strategies. Like this is rest. This is, you know, kind of helping, even if it doesn't, focusing on the journey, not the destination, when you're doing whatever the, you know, sleep strategies are. I like that. a lot because it's again it takes the pressure off of I for this for me to have success with this I need to be asleep yes and then you're more likely to become asleep although again like you shouldn't

think of it that way like maybe I just need to tell myself that I don't care I guess it can come off that way but it's not really about that I remember someone telling me that like years ago like you're still resting even if you're not sleeping yes still recharging even if you're not sleeping. Totally. So whatever it is that you're doing, you know, if it was like, you know, some people will say there's a million strategies that people try, maybe like rewatching a show that you've watched a million times. Like that's still resting. You know, it's still like just allowing your body to sit in stillness and your mind to kind of be quiet because, you know, it's going to happen in this show. You're not like eagerly anticipating anything. Or even if you're

doing breathing or breath work. It's not like I'm doing the breath work so that I can fall asleep. Like I am resting within this breathwork. And one breathwork strategy that I do, I've been doing with my groups that I've been personally doing a lot lately that I find really helpful is you take your breath, you take a nice deep breath. And then at the top of your breath, you take like a little extra sip of air. and then you slowly release on the out breath, that extra breath.

So sometimes what that does is a lot of people do have trouble really slowing down their breath because you feel like I don't have enough air. Like now I feel like I'm choking or I don't have enough breath and that's stressful. So taking that little extra sip of air at the top of your breath will naturally allow you to elongate your out breath a little bit more. And that way it can kind of, the out breath is. in a lot of ways what sends the signal to your brain to allow your nervous system to relax if you can elongate your out breath. So if you do this breathwork strategy, that can help just calm your

nervous system and just telling yourself, I am recharging and resting and I will be more rested tomorrow, even if I don't fall asleep just because I'm lying here and breathing or watching the show that I've watched 17 times before or, you know, Any kind of activity that just you're doing in stillness and quiet and kind of doing calmly is going to be more restful than, you know, whatever you're doing during your daily life, working out or strategizing or coming up with a treatment plan for a patient or any of that. So I like that stuff a lot. The intention for her is I can still rest and refuel in safety and stillness. you don't need sleep only is not the only way to rest and refuel. What I have found works for me is, again, not to give her another method that also might not help.

It's like usually when I can't sleep, I'm like regoing over a problem over and over again or like bruminating on something that I'm anxious about. And if I write it down, it does actually help like release it because then your brain dump. Right. Your brain is like, okay, you've dealt with this. even if you've written down like your fears or your issues here. And now you can like release it a little bit. It does actually help.

Totally. Yep. That's a great strategy too because it convinces your mind like we're not going to, we're addressing this. And that's what happens a lot. That's why people have disturbing dreams a lot of times. If you are falling asleep, you have the disturbing dreams because your subconscious is like,

we will address this, whether you want to or not. So if you're consciously addressing it, it might allow you to just kind of convince yourself, your psyche. Okay, I'm paying attention to this. I don't need to keep thinking about it in order to make sure that I'm paying attention to it. It's right here on this paper, right on my bedside. Let's do some triggers. I want to read our first one.

Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi. Love the podcast and your sister Dynamics. on the show. With Valentine's Day behind us, I thought I'd share a triggered scenario you might find amusing. At the time this happened, I would have rated my trigger at a level seven, but now with some distance, it's probably more like a four. This year, my husband and I were celebrating our first Valentine's Day as a married couple. Even before we got married, we always acknowledged the holiday in some way, usually dinner, flowers, candy, and a card. So naturally, we plan to keep the tradition going and made reservations at our favorite Chinese

restaurant. At some point, my husband mentioned our Valentine's Day plans to his brother and sister-in-law. After that conversation, my brother-in-law asked my husband if we wanted to go on a double date with them and our nephews at a restaurant they like. Ironically, that restaurant is literally down the street from the Chinese place we had already planned to go. My husband politely declined. I assumed that was the end of it, but nope. While we were getting ready to leave for a Valentine's Day dinner, my brother-in-law called again to ask once more if we wanted to double date. My husband said no again, clearly stating that we didn't want to spend Valentine's Day that way. Then during our dinner, my brother-in-law started texting my husband, asking if we wanted to get

together after we finished eating. Toward the end of our meal, he even called twice to see if we had changed our minds and wanted to meet up with them and the kids. We didn't. We stuck to our original plan and enjoyed our night together. What triggered me was the persistence. Despite being told multiple times, my brother-in-law kept pushing, trying to insert himself into our Valentine's Day plans.

For context, this is pretty on brand for him. He's a difficult person and routinely ignores boundaries, even when they're clearly stated. So how triggered can I be? Sincerely, boundary issues with a side of lo main. I don't know, because it was like, I feel like because it was her husband having to deal with him. I don't think it's that triggering. I almost find it more amusing. Like, this guy really does not want to be alone with his wife on Valentine's Day. Yeah, I found that I would find, if this was me, I think I would just be, oh my God, he's calling again. Like, this is funny.

I would find it amusing. I agree. I guess obviously it's like the trigger of whatever boundary stuff, he's not. He's like extremely persistent despite being politely told no. I guess it's more about the history of that and like her irritation about it. Which and I get because it is tough, even that first boundary of like, oh, hey, like, do you guys, you're around, we're around, do you want to do something? And the answer is no, we are actually going to spend it alone together. Which of any day of the year to decline for that reason is like, I feel like this is acceptable day.

That and like your anniversary or whatever. Right. Totally. But I do think when you, she's probably, like you said, just tired of having to be so persistent with these boundaries. Like it almost makes you feel, and I wonder if this is part of what she's feeling. Like it makes you feel like mean after a while, especially if what they're asking is just to hang out. It's like he's asking you to come over and help him move a couch. You know, like he's just asking you to. Like don't make me be this person. Right. Yes. Don't make me be this person. that has to keep rejecting you. That is a hard feeling. But you guys are doing great, sticking to your guns. I think after the other thing, and this is a question for you, I have a feeling we're on the same page about this, but is like the concept of like being unavailable.

Like at a certain point, like I'm just not going to answer the phone anymore. Like I think when it comes to not answering your phone, some people get this feeling of like one that's not nice or what if it's an emergency or like not being able to not answer your phone when people call. I'm pretty much like, I don't know. If I can't talk in that moment or I don't want to talk in that moment, I am an advocate of like don't answer the phone, call the person back when you can actually give them the appropriate time and attention.

Depend on the person. I think you can pick up and be like, hey, can't talk right now? Can I call you back? And that person will be fine. But yeah, sometimes it's hard for people to just be like, I see my brother calling. And I'm not picking up. Yeah. No, I agree with you.

I'm very much like if I'm not in the mode to do it. If I am in the mode to do it and I'm literally just like in the middle of something, I will sometimes pick up and be like, I'll call you back and five minutes. But if I'm not in the mode, I will just, again, I don't, I think there is this feeling of because you can get in touch with people in so many different ways that you should be able to get in touch with people immediately in so many different ways. And I don't, yeah, especially it's Valentine's Day, you're out to dinner with your wife.

I could see why you, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to not answer texts from your brother that you've already spoken to that day until the next day. And if it was an emergency, I would imagine he would text you whatever the emergency was. Right. And maybe that is part of her trigger is like, why are you even? Maybe it's for the husband. Yeah. With the husband, why are you even answering this right now?

Why are like I really do enjoy a just put your, leave your phone in the car or put your phone elsewhere when we are having a Valentine's Day or romantic dinner or a dinner that's meant to be for us, you shouldn't even be having access to your phone at all right now. Like just we're together. Don't even answer it. If you get a text, it really is such a like a nuanced cultural difference, almost a culture that is like person dependent, family dynamic, like family of origin dependent, where some people have a personal culture or a family culture of like, we,

will always be accessible to some people have that everybody. Like I will always answer my phone. That's more of like a, you know, boomer kind of thing. Like I will answer my phone anytime it rings. And then I think kind of like as you move down, there's like these differing cultures around who, how accessible are you at all times of the day? If you have kids, it's different.

But I'm even like, I've had to do that with myself, where I'm kind of like, you know, if I put, if we're doing this recording and I, you know, put my phone on do not disturb or I leave my phone in the other room, is it possible that one of my kids like falls at school and breaks their arm and they need to get a hold of me? Sure, but I have to tell myself, like, the people that are with her are going to handle that better than I will from here. So like, I need to relinquish needing to be accessible at any moment. Yeah, I agree. I think her triggered is more with her, with her actual husband. Because I would imagine if this happened a few times, like, and the brother had a nice boundaryed relationship with his brother. He could say, what do you do? Like, it's his brother, too. It's like, I already told you, like, we're doing just us tonight. Why do you keep calling? Like, maybe she wants even answering, like, just kind of being like, don't answer that. I agree. The triggered is more with the husband. I think that's more of a validating trigger too because you can't control anyone else's

boundaries but your own. Yeah. And if you're not finding it funny, it's not part of your like fun dinner dynamic of like making fun of the brother and laughing at how he's like so desperately. If that's not fun for you, then I think you can have a conversation with him that's like, your brother has no boundaries. You need to not pick up when he calls or you don't have to answer him back right away. Right. Or at least when you're with me because like that's my boundary for him. for you. Totally. Totally. So I think it's like a, it's like a three or four triggered for the husband who keeps talking to his brother on Valentine's Day, who again, again, I would, I think it's just funny, I'd be like, you really like, what's going on when they're married? I would make that,

like the whole dinner conversation. Like, they cannot spend one day, just the two of them. They need a buffer. Maybe things are tense there. I would like make fun of it. I would say it's like a to for the brother because like he can ask keep asking till he's blue in the face if you're not saying yes you're not picking up i agree it is annoying it's annoying but i find it like funny annoying because you know what he's calling about if he was like being manipulative and like saying there was some emergency or something that would be but he's just literally like you sure still how about now what about later what about it's just that is kind of funny um yeah i would agree with those with those scores But, yes, set some boundaries.

You know, cell phones are great, but it sometimes is very stressful to be constantly accessible and feel like you have to be taking care of everybody's emotional needs while you're just going through your day. So put it down, put it away. Be with the people that you're with. And then when you're bored or you have some time, you're alone later, pick it back up. And, oh, wow, sorry, just saw this. Let's do one more. This one's a voicemail. Again, if you want to leave us a voicemail, you can call 646-6-36-3-6-26-294 if you want to leave us a voicemail. This last trigger is a voicemail. Let's roll the tape. It made me think of a five-month-old and a two-and-half month old, and we were at Family Christmas, two other. And I kept signing myself kind of like on the floor. I felt like I was babysitting. My baby and toddler and the other toddler. And I'm like, why am I doing it?

Like, why am I alone? Like, it's one thing if I'm doing it with the other mom and my best friend. But I was like, why am I doing this? Like, holding a baby and reading books to toddlers. And it felt there. I mean, there's a lot of postpartum and sleep deprivation happening there. My baby was only three and a half months at that point. But the most recent episode made me realize, like, okay, I'm just more of a facilitating parent,

whereas my sister is more of a they'll figure it out parent. So I guess my question is, can I still be triggered if I'm putting myself in the situation to facilitate if somebody else isn't, even though that's not their parenting style? But if I didn't, then my toddler would just be upset because the other toddler is making her cry. And she was six, so that was a whole other level. But yeah, I'm just curious about your thoughts are on that. Like, it's a very hard thing to navigate. Like, if you're a facilitative parent,

my sister probably thinks I'm, you know, overbearing. But it's just so much easier if there's at least eyes on them so that if a tip is about to happen, I can protect both of them. You know, it's not just me trying to protect my kid. I want her, I want to be able to see if my kid is, doing something that poorly too. So I don't know. Curious what your thoughts are.

Thanks again and love the show. It's funny. Is that like a thing where like you're in a group setting? Sometimes one person's just watching everyone's kids. You're like, I don't know. It's never been me. It's exactly right. No, I've seen that type of thing before.

And I do and I, it hasn't been me. But I'm kind of my thought on it is like that's what they want to do or they're enjoying that or that's what makes them feel better or safer in the moment. So long story short, I think, no, if you're choosing, if the, if the right in was, or if the call in was, we were at this gathering, one of the kids, like, scratched the other kid's face and nobody was watching and I was the only one who was like intervening in this physical altercation. I'm okay. Yeah, I get it. triggering. But because you decided to preemptively prevent a disagreement between the toddlers or maybe some type of a, maybe she is more concerned that her daughter is going to be mean or not share. I mean, it's very normal. She said these kids are like between two and three or so. It's very normal that they don't play that well together. They're selfish. They don't really like to.

to share. They don't, you know, I just find this age is so funny. Like I just saw the other day, this little girl that came to one of the kids' games with like this backpack filled with toys and then like spread them all over this blanket. And then as soon as any other kids came by, she like ran over like in a panic, scooped up all her toys and shoved them back in the backpack. So like none of the other children would be able to get near them. So I think it's very normal. that there are these little altercations over toys and things. And I think she's, you know, trying to prevent maybe her daughter has trouble sharing. The fact that she is, I think what I heard her say is she's simultaneously driving, pumping, and calling into a podcast.

She's a maximizer. She is a maximizer. Yeah. And probably just has like a mind that's going a mile a minute. I could see, though, feeling like a little resentful if everyone's like, like, is anyone concerned about me that I'm holding this kid and watching all of your kids? Like, does anyone, and she talks about like postpartum stuff? She's like, does anyone appreciate that I'm like, that I'm watching all these kids for everyone and I'm doing this? And I think it's almost maybe more about that or like, where are the other, like, maybe she like does this thing because like she feels like it should be done. but she kind of feels like everyone should do it. So when other people aren't doing it, it's like, oh, they're just kind of like using me to

watch everyone's kids. Yes, yes. Or maybe she saw that as an opportunity to connect to the other moms who are her sister and her best friend. Like, we will all be on the floor playing with the kids. I mean, where are the dads in this situation? That's another question too. But like, you know, just kind of maybe she envisioned it as like an opportunity for us

to all hang out on the floor. are with the kids and chat. And the two other moms are probably like having a nice adult conversation on the side. And she's like, you know, it feels like the hired help. So I get that. But I would recommend is get up and go enjoy the adult conversation. And then if the kids are not being safe, and by that I don't mean like arguing over a toy. Like I do think that is good stuff for them to figure out.

But yes, when it comes to two-year-olds, if there's an argument over a toy, it might end up in a snatch and grab run situation or perhaps a little, you know, push or shove or something like that. In which case, you probably would want to intervene if that happens. But this idea of the differing parenting styles and some people being more of a, you know, kind of I like the words. The kids are fine on the floor. Yeah, the wording that she used. Well, let's say like, let's say she's watching these kids and then the two, the kids that aren't hers or one of the kids that are spills something. What's the etiquette? What's the parenting etiquette there? Is it like, right? Your kid is or is it like she's, you know what I mean? I could see where she'd be like, am I now?

Yes. And then some parents are again, again, maybe like a little bit more laid back or we'll figure it out later. But then I could see where some might be like, oh, she's, she's watching them at school. Well, I mean, in that case, I think if she's got a three-month-old, like, strapped to her on a carrier, then the idea that she's going to get up and go get a towel and clean up a mess, like at the same time, like, no. I think she's got to be like, hey, guys, we have a spill, you know, can somebody. Especially if it's her sister. Yeah.

You know, she talks about even the idea of like if we were to do, I don't know, you'll find out what your parenting style is. We don't know yet. But mine is definitely like a let them figure it out kind of parenting style. So I don't know that that's for everybody. Like some people do feel every moment of parenting is an opportunity to inject yourself. And like again, she's a maximizer. Like maximize the opportunity to teach a lesson about sharing and nonviolence. And these are all opportunities to teach and learn and grow versus kind of trusting nature and human nature to kind of provide those lessons.

And in some ways, it's just like, anything else. It's like your threshold for something is sort of the amount that you're going to get involved in. Like so if it was like a few of a roommate and it's about and you feel like you're always cleaning the apartment, but like the roommate doesn't mind if it's like a little less clean than you, there can be, there can be a resentment there, but also like the roommate would have been fine if you didn't do that. So it's kind of like that with the with the kids. But I think so then I don't know. Yeah. If you're the person who's always doing the stuff because you have a higher threshold for it, but you don't actually like it, it's kind of a tough situation. Totally.

You and I are usually not the person with the highest threshold for anything. Lowest threshold, you mean, or the lowest threshold. Right. Like we have a pretty high threshold for like whatever's happening is probably going to end up being fine, not that worried about it. Yeah, I think there's this idea of, and I do a lot of work with this with couples where it's kind of like, okay, just, you know, you have to, in order to get along well, there has to be a, when someone else is relaxing, that that has to not bother you. Right. If every time your partner is relaxing or every time in this context, this group of parents, if some of the parents are relaxing, that irritates you, you know, there's something that you either need to ask for the help that you want or you need to say, like, I'm going to relax later.

going to let them relax now. But this interpersonal dynamic of your relaxation irritates me is, I think, not a super healthy space. Where you have to either learn to deal with like the idea that the children are somewhat unsupervised in a safe area or I'll relax later. It's funny. We had this when we were hosting Christmas where like Mike comes up, I'm speaking to like one of his cousins and he comes up to me. He's like, can we talk in the other room? And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, oh my God, what's happened? Like, something, he got a horrible phone. He goes, we're out of white wine.

He's like, we're out of white wine. I don't know what to do. Okay, well, like, there's red wine. Right. He's like, what are we going to do? I'm like, not people will not have white wine. That is so me. It was almost like it was like this crazy emergency.

Yes. And I'm like, it's, you could still be a good host. and run out of white wine. It's like you ran out of all of the out. There's many different kinds of alcohol or like toilet paper. Right. And I'm like, you don't, you want to see a party that's not done well. Come to our house for any event.

Right. Totally. The threshold. Coming back to the threshold. Right. It's like, it's like, what is, yeah, what is your threshold for like people, other people's and your own, I guess, slight discomfort? It's so true.

I have the same thing. I have the same thing in my marriage. We just had the same thing. We invited some people over. Jeff's been making pizza from scratch. It's delicious. It's amazing. He works really hard at it.

And we had some people over to come taste like a new pizza recipe that he was making. And he was like all tense because I guess one of our friends said that they were, we thought it was just going to be their younger daughter, but they were bringing their teenage son. also, which we didn't realize. Bigger appetite. Bigger appetite. So he was like freaking out that there wasn't going to be enough food.

And I was like, put some pasta on. We have a jar of rios, dump it on top. And like if he's really hungry, we'll have a whole pot of pasta. He's like, you can't serve jarred sauce when you're inviting someone over for dinner. And I was like, you can't. Like, it's edible. It's food. So we definitely had a little moment there of like, you know, my just being like sitting back, like, you know, relaxing, you know, hanging out with the kids and he's like running around making a from scratch olivaca sauce.

And I'm like, you're doing this to yourself, you know? Right. Or it's like they want everyone to be stressed about it. Usually it's like the reverse like male, female dynamic. Like I have a lot of patients that are very irritated by their. female patients that are irritated by their male husbands sitting on the couch. Like just watching their husbands sitting on the couch on their phone is like the most irritating thing in life.

And so I think the idea that I was like not part of the stress was making the stress even worse. So yeah, I could see there's differing dynamics, but this isn't even her partner. this is her sister and her friend. And it sounds like in this dynamic, which is probably might happen more often, you either have to choose to say, hey, I'm more concerned about this.

So I'm going to take charge here. Or maybe you do want to see what it feels like to sit back and wait for somebody to start crying. And then when somebody starts crying or whining or see who runs over. Yeah, it gets shoved or whatever the thing is that happens. you run over parenting in public spaces is hard too, which is why I think maybe there might be some fear of like, what if my kid pushes another kid down? Right. That's like there's this shame in that. There's this feeling of like. Right. And I wasn't on top of it. Yeah. My kid is like being violent now. And it's very normal. Like if she shoves another kid and the kid falls on their butt, I mean, they're two. How far are they falling? Right. Like they fall on their big diapered. bottom. But if they do, I think this listener probably feels like, oh, my God, that would be terrible. And we'd have to have a whole talk. And we'd have to, it'd be a whole issue. It's,

you know, so I do think around parenting issues in public, there is this feeling of like, I need to make sure that my kid is being socially acceptable. Yeah. For your own judgment. Yeah. But clearly, these moms don't have that. No. They'll let them fly. Yeah. It's very very freeing. I don't know if your daughter has trouble sharing or if she is the type that might shove another kid down or whatever. So if that's the case, this might be your, you know, green light to be like, let the, let the butts fall where they may. Yeah. And if the other moms are concerned, then they'll come over and help and might be good for you to relax a little bit, let things unfold. Yeah. And as someone who doesn't have kids yet, I guess like the fear I would

imagine is like what you would hear at the park like where is this kid's mother yes that is like the where is the where is there I mean it's her sister and her and the friends so I don't think it'd be like but I could see in a in a in a less personal space that would be the big fear yes yep that big fear of like who is watching oh my god this child that just is you know push this other kid down or she's you know not sharing and nobody's intervening or you know that this child's running wild or yeah where's the mother yeah totally yeah I think that is a shameful thing that you know like I'll speak of that like I've often like we go to six flags a lot and sometimes I'll see like a kid walking around and I'm sort of like is that kid lost like where's the mom

and I'm very careful about like stepping back and just observing for a long time because I know the shame that it would cause the mother if, like, I kind of went over and intervened and said, like, oh, did, did you lose your mommy? And the mom would be like, no, I'm standing right here. You know, like, I'm right here. You know, like, I haven't lost my child or I'm not, my child is not unattended. So I know that that's like a trigger for a lot of moms. That is the fear. So, yeah, parenting is tough. But I do think if we did a podcast, a parenting podcast, it would be kind of skewed advice. And a lot of the type A probably would not listen to it or enjoy the advice.

We could call the podcast, where is her mother? Where is their mother? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That is really funny. What would I give this? I want to just come back really quickly because it's going to affect my score. the idea of the postpartum mom and the like who's taking care of me because I think that is

a big which you're about to embark into but this feeling of like everyone's obsessed with this baby everyone's like thinking about everything else except for me I'm obsessed I have to take care of these babies I'm taking care of everything else like who is taking care of me so I think the three month old factors into the score here but still I would say I'm I'm going to, I'm going to give this a three. I think if you, you could stand up, walk away, see what happens. And then I would raise the score if like some kind of chaos went on and you were the only one. Or if like she asked someone to like, I think I would raise the score if the other, if she was, if she like said, could someone help me out here?

And no, everyone was like, you got it. Yeah. But I can also see being the mom where someone. someone's like, hey, can you help me out here? And I'm like, there's nothing to do. Yeah. Kind of like the dinner where I'm like, yeah, I could throw some pasta on the stove and pour some Rios on top. That's the extent of my intervention here. Other than that, there's no real problem here. I think, too, as it stands, because no one asked her to do this. Again, if she asked for help, or if the other kids were like clearly misbehaving and she was like having to be the one to,

she was, depends how much she's doing, really. If she needs. If there is a lot to be done, like if there's a mess and only one person is helping, I could see why that would be triggering. But just like entertaining the children when they are all like hanging out together, I don't think that's necessary. That's the beauty of them together. They can kind of entertain each other. Good luck with the pumping.

Yeah. Oh, gosh. I hope you got home safe. Yeah. And she's probably pumping while listening to this. So enjoy. All right. We did it. So many dilemmas. So little time. Thank you guys for writing in really great questions. But yeah, that's our time. Great work today. Betches.