Oversharing - Do I Need To Take His Last Name?

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

Today on Oversharing, Dr. Naomi discusses how evolution has shaped our belief systems. Our Overshare comes from a listener trying to cope with parents in an unhappy marriage. Today’s Betchicist deals with the drama of ditching your last name. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for a new mom feeling overwhelmed by health hazards. And we’re feeling triggered by inappropriate questions and the pet-obsessed. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I'm Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

Going good. I was reading this book to the kids actually that I thought would be interesting to talk about on here. It's called Unstoppable Us, how humans took over the world. And it's kind of like a history of humankind and like how we developed from, you know, Neanderthals. And then there's all these other, there's like these other little kind of human-like creatures that we evolved from that were not quite, you know, monkeys, that were not quite chimps, that were not quite Neanderthal. that were cavemen, cavemen type creatures. But what was interesting to me about this book, and the kids like it and I like it, because

I'm learning a lot as I'm reading it, the main point of this book, which I thought would be interesting for our listeners, is he says basically Neanderthals and humans were living right around the same time. And you know, came out in recent years that they actually mated Neanderthals and humans are like some people still have Neanderthal genes in their bodies. but basically we wiped out Neanderthals, humans, Homo sapiens, wiped Neanderthals off the planet. We killed them? We just kind of the only ones who survived.

We probably survived by getting all the resources, getting all the good caves, being able to hunt the better food. And what this author is saying, which is interesting, I'll just, the author is, you've all know a Harari. And his, I don't know if this is just his idea, but he's saying basically the way that we survived and surpassed Neanderthals is by being able to tell stories. So his example is if someone came and they said, well, here's a king and here's this powerful tribe leader.

And if you don't bring him all of the corn that you find or if you don't bring him all of the then it will never rain and we won't grow any. It was almost like this idea of using your imagination to create a story that makes humans all work together. So that was like our superpower as a species as opposed to any other strength or, you know, being able to cut things or use tools or whatever. It was this idea of working together in large numbers. because we all believed a storyline.

Interesting. Yeah. So I thought that was really interesting because what it says to me is this idea of creating a narrative, a story to try to understand something is sort of built into our DNA and our narrative, you know, that it's built into our DNA to want to have a narrative. to want to have a story to believe about why things happen or how to make the world better or survive or this type of thing. Yeah. I mean, I've never really thought about it like that.

That is a very interesting way of thinking about it, especially as you think of like, you know, we're the only species with like government. Yes. Or like, you know what I mean? Like these, like we all live a certain way. that's sort of like the, except the like collective idea for like how you're supposed to live

with some variations, I guess across cultures, but they all kind of do live the same kind of way. Right. Interesting. And it's on two levels that I thought of, one is the whole like,

you know, political spectrum of like right versus left. It's kind of like, which story do you believe? Do you believe the story of like, this is the scary thing that's going to, make you not safe or do you believe that this is the scary thing that's going to make you not safe? And therefore, whichever narrative you believe, that's the side that you're going to lean on. And the more you hear the narrative, the more you believe it, the more your parents probably believed it or the more you're exposed to it.

You're just picking a narrative and following it. Right. And it's so interesting. I mean, I feel like I've read about this before too where it's like, you know, people who, you know, feel very strongly in their, their beliefs, they almost like, it's almost not even about the beliefs. It's about what they've now created about what the belief says about their own personal identity. Yes. Yes. And so like you stick, you stick very intensely to the narrative because to like give a little bit on that is to sort of weaken your personal identity. Yes. Yeah. And it and I guess it's so interesting. I guess why

I'm bringing it up is I think it could help people detach from it a little bit. It could help people detach them in a little bit. If you're, as you're doing it, you're kind of conscious that this is sort of this remnant of an evolutionary process that we don't really need anymore. So you can kind of be like, all right, am I buying into this identity? Do I really need this identity? And maybe, you know, 10,000 years ago, we did because not only did you have this narrative that made you feel safer, but you also kind of needed to be part of a group to feel like

you had protection and, you know, you were working together. But I think even the other part that you still need some of that, right? I guess you need it in the sense of, but I mean, why do you need the storyline? Because like if you don't buy into, if we don't all buy into a similar storyline of like, this is how we're going to live, then it's kind of chaos can be. Right. Like it's like everyone with their own laws and their own rules. And then that's very like unsafe.

So I do think there's, you know, there is something to, we're all following like the same rules. Like you see a line. You get to the end of it. You could say like, well, I'm doing my own thing. Right. Like I'm going to just go right into the store. Right. You know, right into the concert or whatever it is.

I'm not waiting on the line. But like that person isn't really regarded highly in society. And I think for a good reason, like we want to create a sense of safety and calm. and part of that is like all sort of believing. And I guess the line is like a pretty benign one. Right. Bigger one could be like, you know, taxes, people feel differently about how much you should pay and, you know, all that stuff.

But I do think there's, there's a certain level of helpfulness. Right. No. And kind of everyone just believing the same story. Yes. I agree. I agree. I think the place to be mindful is when you're.

consuming media that has a very specific storyline around it. I think that's when it's because we're also very smart and we know what stories to tell to get you to feel a certain way, to instill fear in you so that you will act a certain way, to instill hope in you so that you will act a certain way. And I think it is manipulated a lot. So yes, on the basics of like keeping order in society, I think we need that. But when it comes, comes to like these, whether it's like political divides or even personally, even, and we'll talk about this in the outline today, even personally, the idea of like having that narrative in your mind all the time of like your history and then your future and what it's going to look like

or who you are based on things that have happened in your past. I think if you can, if we can become conscious of that and let it go a little bit, it will help relieve anxiety. Because I think anxiety comes a lot from like playing out an imaginary story in your mind that hasn't yet happened. Like if I bring the corn to the tribal leader, then, you know, the reins will come. Totally true. I was reading, I happened to also be reading this book in a similar fashion by Joe Dispenza. And he's basically saying like beliefs are just thoughts you keep thinking over and over and over again. Yeah. But like if you didn't have that, then you're basically, basically his thought is like if

you didn't have that, then if you weren't clung to the past, then your future could be literally whatever you wanted to be. Yes. Because when you write the story, then you're just going to live out the story or live in fear of the story or whatever it is. So I love that. And the best way to stop believing a thought and come is coming to consciousness of like, oh, there it is again. It just has something outside of yourself. Like there, oh, there you are. Like

observing it. Right. Instead of being so absorbed in it that it becomes you, your identity, your belief versus being like, okay, here's a passing thought. What am I going to do with it? Am I going to take it in? Am I going to watch it? Well, how do you decide then which thoughts to take in and which thoughts to not take in? Yeah. I mean, I think if it's like, oh, I'm a rumination, I think, is exactly what you're describing, like repeating the same thoughts over and over and over again. I think once you're doing that, it's usually out of fear. Like, you have to keep it top of mind to make sure that you don't have a certain thing. But most of us, if we can calm the body and kind of, you know, you could be like, yeah, you know what? I'm actually okay. Like I thank you for trying to

protect me. Like I always say, thank you for trying to protect me. I'm doing all right. I don't need to keep holding this thing in my head all day. Or like we've talked about write it down on a piece of paper on a to do list. What can I control? What can I control? But the idea of just repeating these thoughts kind of. And if you pay attention, you'll notice how much of your thoughts are repetitive and they're like clinging to this story.

I'm afraid I'm going to be alone forever. Right. That's the story line. The storyline is person says they don't like this person on date. I never find anyone. I'm going to be alone forever. Here's the story. Now I'm living in fear of that story.

That's like an imaginary story. Right. And it kind of, and again, this book I was reading sort of saying that like, if you have those beliefs, they sort of live in your body. Like it lives,

like your body is already in that story because that's the story you keep telling yourself. Yes. Yep. And so like meditation, and part of meditation is kind of creating is taking your body out of that and creating like putting your body in the state that you want to be in of your future that you want instead of like the past that you keep reinforcing right and like just practicing it in real time so anyway you know

I thought this was really interesting for people to just recognize oh wait this is just like an old evolutionary remnant that I need to just detach myself from. I don't need to believe this storyline anymore to be part of the tribe, to be part of, you know, for safety or whatever, like just watching it, recognizing it and then kind of detaching from it. I thought it would be helpful for any listeners that have anxiety. We have a couple of, you know, emails today about like people that are experiencing anxiety. So I think this, just that awareness that you're falling into this trap can be helpful. Don't believe anything. Not even yourself. But really, though, I think our thoughts are not, most of the time, they're not our friends. When you're feeling good, that's when your thoughts are your

friends. When you're feeling anxious, when you're feeling sad, when it's all just these, you know, probably not even factual imaginary thoughts that are making you feel that way. So just let them go. separate yourself. Just drop them. You're cured. Done. It's over. You can stop listening now.

I'm just kidding. We have a whole episode ahead of you with specific examples. But I think this show is a good way to kind of remind yourself of that. And it's kind of like it's hard, you know, theoretically we can all agree with what we're saying. Right. But I think to fully internalize it, you kind of have to practice it every day like you do with like meditation. Yes. Or with that kind of like being mindful.

And it's hard because you're kind of like, you do it for three days and you're like, I'm the same person. What is going on? Right. Doing anything. And you kind of, I don't know, there's like a critical point to get to, I guess, to what you have to get over. And it's probably different for everyone to like fully get there. Yeah. I mean, you're living in a real world where you have deadlines and bosses that are on your ass about certain things.

Like I know it's not always that simple. And it doesn't, I've said this before and I'll say it again, it can just be a moment of consciousness. Like right now, if you're out there listening and you, Drodana, you're listening, you're sitting here, you're with me, come to consciousness in this moment. You hear my voice. You see my face on the screen. If you're listening, what do you come into your senses from it? Become conscious that you are separate from your thoughts.

Just do that throughout your day periodically. Whatever you're doing right now, you are the observer of your body going. through the motions of life. So if you can step back and become conscious of that, it doesn't have to be I'm sitting for 20 minutes, cross-legged on my meditation cushion. It could just be this moment right now, come to consciousness,

meaning like become aware that you are not your thoughts, that you are experiencing life through your senses, and just do that as often as you can throughout the day. And then you'll start to kind of take back control from this autopilot mode of just surviving. Right. Because maybe those are the people that reach the next round of evolution. I hope that we're...

You might be stuck in the past. I really hope that we are moving in that direction as a species. To become more and evolve to realize that we don't need to do the things that we did in the past to survive. That we would be okay if we just like Uber eats and sat on our meditation meditation, cushion between meetings. Like we don't need to worry about. Go to work, get your money, meditate, exercise, enjoy life. Like, we don't need to worry certain things you need to worry about, but write them down, worry about them, take care of them and move on. Right. That's the key.

Like you said, everyone's cured. You can stop listening. Done. Let's get into our emails. If you guys have a voicemail, you want to call us and leave us a voicemail. You can call 646-36-36-26-294. Or you can email us at oversharing at betches.com. I'm going to read our first overshare. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi, big you up and oversharing listener. Thank you for all that you do. I'm writing because I have a lot of trouble navigating my parents' tense marriage as their adult child. I'm in my early 30s for context.

To preface, my parents are the most generous giving and thoughtful people to my brother and I. But their interactions with each other bring out the worst in them. My parents met at age 17 and have been married for just over 40 years, together for about 45 to 46. years. From my understanding, they've had a relatively tumultuous relationship even from the beginning and seemed to have trauma bonded when they were teenagers and my mom's parents were going through a divorce. Growing up, my memories of them are largely separate. And when we were all together as a family, things were very cold, quiet and tense. My mom was mostly involved with my activities and my dad was mainly involved in my brothers. So they were able to live very independent lives. It was very obvious

that they were together out of a sense of duty for their kids. That said, they will still still show up as a unified front for holidays, special occasions, things for their kids, and grandchild, etc. When I'm with them, especially if it's just the three of us, they mostly will only speak to me, not each other. If we're riding in a car, my mom will have me sit in the front so dad can talk to me, but really to give herself space. They will both make comments about the other one in front of the other one and snipe back and forth. These are mainly quick, quiet jabs, and they won't turn into fights, but foster an incredibly awkward intense environment. they will always assume the worst in each other's intentions

and turn every perceived slight into a silent treatment. I'm sure when they are alone they at least occasionally fall on fight or did when they were younger and cared more, but in front of my brother and I, it's a cold war. They are both pretty devoutly Catholic, and I don't foresee them ever getting divorced, but they are also so old school that I can't imagine them ever going to therapy together.

I've lost it on them once a few years back, yelling at them and crying at a restaurant because they were being so rude to each other, it literally caught in the middle with them on either side of me at the bar. They apologized for their behavior, but nothing changed. I'm at the point where when I'm about to go home for a holiday or some family obligation, anxiety begins settling in about two weeks in advance. And I find myself thinking through any situations where I'll be alone with them and mentally

preparing for these interactions. I'm sick of this, and I don't want to live like this with my family. My brother seems to do a better job but not letting this affect him, although I attribute this to him being married and having his own nuclear family, whereas I'm still single. He's fully aware of their dynamic and would agree with everything I've written, but take some more, that's their funeral approach. Separately, I also think their hyper-independence and unhappiness plays a large part into why I've developed a lot of it defense mechanisms and self-sabotaging behavior in my own dating life. So my questions are as follows. Is this just a reality of what can happen

when you're together for almost 50 years. Every family has their challenges and I'm lucky to have parents that are so wonderful to me with the exception of their marital strife. Do I just need to deal with it? Should I try speaking to them together or separately? If so, how would you recommend going about this? I want them to understand that being together in this way is not beneficial to anyone and that we would be better off if they were separated provided they don't work at bettering things. Assuming they will not change their ways, do you have any tips, tricks, or intentions on how to manage my own anxieties when I'm going to be around them, as well as the guilt that I feel that they're only in this terrible, icy marriage for my sake. Thanks for your time and looking

forward to your feedback. Best, get therapy, get divorced, or get over it. I like her sign off. Yeah, it's funny. I think this happened. People probably don't give this as much attention because they're not around their parents that much when they're adults, but I hear this a lot. That really? Yes. that people have parents. We're lucky. Our parents get divorced all the time, so we don't have to deal with any of this. Well, this is, and for those of you that might be out there in a marriage that you're not totally, you know, thrilled with, but you're staying together for the kids, this is the other

side of it, right? It's very uncomfortable to be seeing your parents being mean to each other or fighting all the time. I have a lot of patients that deal with like having to go home and it's so awkward because their parents are unkind or they feel really bad for one parent if the other one's not nice or in this case, both of them that they both seem pretty miserable and that they're just staying together. It sounds like to maintain this family unit concept. Right. But it's hard because you know, it's really hard to, I don't think she's going to make much change. in them after 40 years of them just kind of being used to this dynamic.

I do think it's worth discussing it. I think it can't hurt. I would probably do it one on one. Right. Versus like the two of them together. Because she said she did discuss it with them, but it sounds like it was like in a super activated, really intense way.

And maybe, again, maybe it seems like they apologize. So she got her point across, but maybe it wasn't like done in a really like calm. Maybe they thought, you know, part of it was that she was having a bad day or something. Right. I think if you went into it with like a fully relaxed but intentional conversation, like it could change things a little bit.

Yeah. If you've never tried it, I always say like my, I'm most hopeful for people that have never even tried communication because there's so much room to go where I think it's time for an adult conversation. Like maybe start with her. mom and just be like, are you happy? Are you happy with dad? Like it just seems tense a lot when I'm around you guys and just kind of seeing if she can get her to talk about that. Because a lot of times it's like, you know, you kind of keep your kids on the outside of your marriage when they're young.

But at some point when they're old enough, it's okay to have those conversations and maybe open up a dialogue for her mom to say, yeah, I'm kind of staying together for you guys or just to hear her out. hopefully she'd be open to just expressing how she feels about her marriage and at least just letting her know, please don't do it for us. Like it's actually more pleasant when I see you guys one on one than when I see you guys together. Like I enjoy those interactions more. So you don't need to force yourselves to be together more than what you have to for us

because I actually find it very uncomfortable. Right. Assuming, again, assuming it's for them and not for this like, kind of like what we're talking about before, like these beliefs about like marriage and that you kind of are just like, once you make this decision that that is something you must stay in because of religion or whatever. The other thing is it seems like that's someone's previously held belief that is like really keeping them back from living a life that they could be much happier in. A hundred percent. Yeah. And so it's interesting. It might be interesting for her to just have like a real heart to heart.

both of her parents. Like I'm an adult now. How do you feel about being married to mom or how how do you feel about being married to dad? Like I want to be able to have this conversation with you and tell you kind of how I feel when I'm with the two of you and I want to know how you feel when we're all together. And yeah, and see, is it this belief of like till death do us part and that's just it? And if that's the case and they're never going to, it almost doesn't, like a lot of people do this too where they're like, they don't want to get a divorce, but they're not really married. Like they. Right. They just kind of live separate lives.

Right. And different homes. Right. Yeah. Or even within the same home, just like very separate sleeping in separate rooms and doing separate things, but like the comfort of if you get a flat tire, there's someone you can call or if you're sick, there's someone there or whatever. like kind of looking outside the box for a different marriage that maybe is what they want, which would be fine. But what's not fine for this listener is them constantly bickering when she's around.

Right. It kind of sounds like they do have these like separate lives already. Right. But maybe that doesn't even work for them in this case because they're still fighting a lot or have this cold tension. Right. And I mean, she says, she's like lucky. She says, I'm lucky. My parents are like, are great.

and compassionate and loving. And if that's the case and they truly care about her, I would almost make it more about like what it does to you. Like this email to us, if you were to say that if your kid said that to you, like I feel really anxious and tense when I come home because I just feel like there's so much tension and it makes me not want to come home.

I think that even if it had nothing to do with the way that you wanted to live, I imagine that a parent that truly cares about their child, would do it just so that they don't have to feel that way or because they would want them to come home more. Yes, totally. I think that I totally agree. And I think, again, coming to consciousness, they might need, like, people that are so on autopilot with their behaviors and their reactions, they might need a little reminder of like being conscious of, okay, this is, we're going to really try.

She's going to be home for a day or two days or we're going to this outing. I need this reminder to be conscious to like not make the little jabbing comment or not start up or say, you know what, hey, why don't you guys go shopping? I'll take you out to dinner when you get back, like doing things more separately if they can't bring themselves to be kind. So I agree. Communication, I think, is the first step. But let's say she communicates, nothing changes.

This behavior continues. sometimes I like to take the perspective of it's just like an unpleasant sound, like really detaching yourself. Like when people are arguing and I do this for myself when my kids are bickering and I find myself like getting involved and trying to be like, okay, well who said what and who started and who like trying to be the referee. And then I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to sit here.

and I'm going to listen to it as like a background noise, like this little jabby back and forth and just realize, okay, this is the life that they're choosing. I've tried to talk to them about it. I've released my guilt by telling them, please don't stay together for us. I've had all these conversations. They're still choosing to stay in this

so I can maybe take the emotional charge out of their fighting and realize like this lifestyle where they're fighting with each other for them is preferable to the alternative that I've given them permission to pursue. So now I'm just going to think of it like the same way I did when I had a newborn where I was like, okay, the baby is fed, the baby has changed, they're dry, the room's not too cold, the room's not too hot. This is just an unpleasant sound. And it's not a danger.

There's nothing I need to do about this. I don't need to change it or fix it. I'm just going to observe it as like something that's happening in the environment. Same thing with them bickering. Yeah, I like that. I think alternatively, you could say before she comes home, are you guys going to be together? Because I think I'm not going to come. Yeah, if it's like, really bothering, they're setting a boundary, totally.

Yeah, I think that's her boundary. It's like I'm not going to never see either of you again, but I don't want to see you together. and it's not pleasant for me. So let me know if just do you want to hang out? Yes. Yep. Totally. So I think there's options here, right?

One, communicate. Two, set a boundary. If you guys keep acting like this, I'm not going to be around you. And three, just kind of taking that, like, Buddhist. Okay. There's just some, you know, auditory vibrations in the air that are hitting my ear drum at a certain frequency and I'm going to take the intense emotion out of it and just realize they're choosing this for a reason. There must be some benefit to them. But yeah, she has the options.

Well, it's just so funny to me that they're like, oh, they come together for holidays and these things because they're like, oh, that's, that's what we want to probably provide for the family unit when really like by doing that but bringing with it this intense like negative energy and this intense tension yes it actually ruins the whole thing for everyone yes and i think sometimes there's a lot of ego image stuff around it we want to present as a married as like an intact family um and we're going to preserve that image the storyline the narrative that we are this intact family even if it's not serving anybody. Right.

Yeah. It's the belief they keep the sauce, they just keep repeating over and over. Yeah. So coming back to that, you know, consciousness in that moment. And I think it's a great option

that you mentioned. Like, I don't, this isn't fun for me. I want to hang out with you guys separately. If you're going to be bickering like this. So, yeah,

let us know how it goes. Let's do a betcha says, Do you want to write it? I'll read this. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, thank you so much for all you do with the podcast. I look forward to listening every week and I find great comfort in your voices. I'm writing in because my boyfriend and I are budding heads on something. I'm 31 and he's 38 and we've been together for about two and a half years. We always plan to move in together and get married someday, especially because I'd still like to have kids.

However, I discovered recently that he's very passionate about the fact that I changed my last name to his if and when we get married. I've always kind of wanted to keep my last name since my mom did with hers, and I don't think it's a requirement to be married. I'd also be opening to potentially hyphenating or even changing it, but his reaction to that is really giving a big red flag. He said we shouldn't even bother getting married if I don't change my name, and it's disrespectful to him as a partner and a man. He even said we wouldn't be a real family if I kept my own name. I'm pretty upset about this because I feel that he's not respecting me as a person or my autonomy. It's been my name for over 30 years and I'm very proud of everything I've accomplished.

Plus, I love my family and where I came from. He fell in love with me and I feel it shouldn't matter what my name is for him to want to marry me. Plus, it's not fair for me to be the only one making this big compromise. What do you think? Is this a sign of a bigger issue? Can I convince him that it's my decision and no reflection of how committed I am to him? what should I do? Sincerely, a rose by any other name would not smell as sweet.

This is a good one. Great one. I'm surprised we haven't gotten this yet. I do think when women really didn't have careers or they got married very young, as was the case for like the vast majority of history, the name change made a lot more sense, you know. But it's funny how it was like, especially in like a city like New York, where women are getting married in their 30s and later and later.

And it's like you have this entire life and this career and this whole thing with this last name. And then you get married and it's like your identity is supposed to just change into this other person's name. And that's just, again, a belief, a societal belief that we just keep doing because we've always done it. And it feels like it gives something to our identities. Yes. It is. I love this question because it really is. again, this moment of like coming to consciousness of like, I'm just on autopilot doing this thing,

which it really came from a very patriarchal place of kind of like the woman became the man's possession. And so therefore, you know, she took his name and she was like under his care. And it's so not what we're doing now, but we still, you know, we still, most people still do it. I did it and I remember it feeling really weird and uncomfortable. But then there is, I guess, if we're being honest, for most people, there's probably some kind of like a romantic notion around it or like maybe it's just buying into culture and Disney movies and whatever. But there's this idea of like, now I'm one with him, my protector and like he's the head

of the house. There's got to be something there to that. Or like we're in each other's families now. Like we're a unit now. And I think there is, even if it's, again, even if it's not like, oh, he's protecting me. I think it's kind of like we are, you know, we're unified under this last name that is like, you know, telling the world that we're a family. That's where together. Yes.

And that's what I think is part of the narrative too. Like we're telling the world that we are very tight. We're in it. We're cohesive. We're a family. We're all have this same name. It's like very much in this narrative. Like our mom had a different last name than we did growing up.

And I don't know if it didn't really bother me. I remember occasionally she would write a note and she would write her name and then she would write Naomi's mom in parentheses. And it was like, you know, that part was like a little awkward. kind of to have to say that but like okay you know I think people do it because they want to have the same name as their kids or the concept of like I've seen very few people do it I don't know if you know anyone that does it where they like come up with their own family name like they join the name together with more like lesbian or gay couples right which again come off more like

it comes off more like we're equal yes like of course you know what I mean Of course. It really makes no sense. Of course you would do it that way, right? Why would one person just because he's male get to have that? It really doesn't make that much sense anymore. I guess there's like family tracing and lineage and a feeling like you're carrying on the family name or something like that. Which again, seems a little silly.

Like, I mean, I think, and it's funny, I think that this debate is over like marriage. and her taking the last name. But when it comes to like what names the kids will take, I feel like it's rare for anyone to say that it wouldn't be the man's name. Yes. So people will give in, you know, they'll say, okay, fine,

you keep your last name, but the kids are going to have the dad's last name. And it's just a given, but it really makes no sense why. You want to keep your, your family lineage is a thing, you know, especially if it's like,

okay, you don't have someone who doesn't have any sons. Like, that's it. dad has five daughters. Yeah. The Abraham name is dead with you. Gone.

And it doesn't make, and that might be a, that would be fair if like Mike has a brother who's going to carry his name and you could be like, hey, I don't, I need to,

this is like an obligation. Like I need to carry this name. I get the name. Abraham's a great name. Like, I get it. Your brother's going to carry on your family's name. I know,

I'm not pressuring you. I took my husband's name too, but looking back on it, it really doesn't right yeah i don't know it's kind it's the kind of thing where you're like unless it it's the kind of thing where it's like is it worth being so and again people do these things because that's the norm right getting on the end of the line is the norm right they having the it's just the go-to the default thing whether it should be or whether it shouldn't be whether that concept makes sense or not it's kind of just easier i get what i understand i understand the

the boyfriend's perspective of like this is just sort of how society is right we don't need to be the ones that are going to undo the whole patriarchy right now yes especially when it benefits him um which it does right I think again I think having a debate about this is not a big deal but I do think the intensity to what she is like really sticking to this is a little bit of a red flag like like to the fact that he's saying we won't be like we we might as well not even bother getting married yes we wouldn't be a real family like that to me is a very dismissive intense way of talking about getting what he wants that doesn't that seems to be like kind of hurtful and just also like not even trying to understand her perspective yes or like or a differing point

of you. And that might be, to me, a little bit of a red flag of other things to come where it's kind of like his way or an insult about, you know, the state that you're in. Yeah. Or not willing to go deeper for fear that he may not get his way. Like, I do think it's very important that he be able to say, like, I get it. I get why this doesn't feel good to you. I get why this is something that you're not quick to do just because everyone else is doing it. That this is, I think it would be, this would be very different if they sat down and had a real deep conversation about what it feels like to her, what it feels like to him. And honestly, for him to really explore what his fears are, because I think there is a lot of ego around it for the man that like, because nobody else is doing this. it feels like a little bit emasculating that he's going to have to tell his friends that like

she's not taking the name or they're going to see that and somehow I think that makes him feel less he even said it like less of a man or even if we're going one step further if the kids had the hyphenated name then I think there's something about the ego the identity, the manliness that he, you know, wasn't in charge. He wasn't the head. He wasn't the leader of the, there's something around that. And I think there's things that have grown, like almost, I think there used to be more like men wearing like the baby and a baby carrier. I think like 40 years ago felt like a little bit like effeminate or something. And now it's like watching his own kids.

Yeah, and we're growing. And now it's like you see guys with the baby and the baby carrier like happily and proudly all the time. So I think we're growing in that direction. But this is one that's just like stuck in the mud, I think. And I think that happens in marriages and relationships a lot where it's like people have, you know, grow up in their own way. Every family has their own way of raising their kids.

And you kind of, unless you had like a big psychological issue around it, you kind of, you kind of just assume that that way, like, should be the way that people do things. Right. You know, like, my mom took my dad's last name. So, like, that's just, like, how it's done. Or, like, I mean, I've gotten to this with Mike before a little bit, like, conversations with him about it with, like, his mom, you know, was a stay-at-home mom. And so there was always, like, a stay-at-home parent.

Right. And that's kind of where he was, you know, and he came into, I think, adulthood being like, oh, that's a great way to, right. to have kids, you know, and that wasn't something that I experienced ever was either of my parents being a stay-at-home parent. So I think it's kind of like,

and you assume, and I was always very proud of that, proud of having a mom who worked. And I think it's just like, it's worth a discussion. If you're, if the matter is like, are you open to discussing, are you open to like differing viewpoints than your own? Even if you wind up ultimately getting your way

or not getting your way. And I don't think that you, what you said about the emasculation is like, invalid. I think his feelings are valid. Just the way that he's presenting them to me seems not healthy. Yes. I think if he came at it with some vulnerability and some honesty and maybe she can pull that out of him where it's not just like, because he might be doing it in this very harsh, like if you don't do it, we're not getting married way because he doesn't want to come to terms with his own like, you know, fears of not being manly. And he's,

He doesn't want to admit that or own that or say that. And I think it might make her feel better if he's being honest about what it is and his own identity or fears of being embarrassed or whatever might come up. Like I think that the real conversation is going to help them because I do agree with you. The shutdown on his part is the issue. It's not that he wants it because I think if you pulled a hundred men that were about to get married, 95 of them would feel probably pretty strongly about this. I could be wrong.

I don't think the opinion itself is like a deal breaker. Yeah, it's the lack of depth of the conversation or him even opening up to have some depth around this. Because I do think it's indicative of other types of, you know, like you said, who's going to do the primary child rearing if that's something that they're going to do or even there's other issues that come up around feminists. feminism and patriarchy and breaking some molds in your new family and in your new lifestyle around that. So I don't think it's going to end here if they don't have a deeper conversation

around it. Right. And I do think there's like it feels like there's a safety in doing things the way they've always been done. Yeah. So I understand that concept. It's like this is how we do. I think that's sort of like the conservative fear, right? Is like if we allow this change, if anyone can do this, then what is, what consistency can I feel in my own life? Right. Or something. Yes. To bring it to the most extreme.

Yes. Well, that's the fear of this like imaginary narrative. That's what it is. Like, well, if you can, if we can just hyphenate the names, then why don't we just call ourselves, you know, the Sunshine Buttercup family and like, who cares? Like, throw everything out the window. We can call ourselves the masters of the names. the universe if we want.

You know, like it feels like you can do anything. But that's the narrative, this fearful narrative of like if you don't bring the corn to the tribal leader, then it won't rain. Like there's like an imaginary story of like what's going to happen if you don't follow the fall in line with the storyline that everyone has bought into. Yeah. Yeah. So I love this question.

And I mean, I did it, but I don't know that if I could go back, I don't know if I would have made the same choice today. I mean, there is something nice about us all having the same name and people have like, oh, like the Bernstein's. Right. Yeah. No, I think that's kind of like the nice part. I mean, I'm sort of like in the middle. I feel like I privately take my last name. Like I'll put it on like reservations and stuff.

Right. Or like it'll be on wedding invitations. But obviously like for work, I keep my. last name because I built a whole company on this name. Yes. Yeah. So do you think for you there is, I guess I'm interested to touch on what it is for women that don't care, that want to like give up that part of their identity, that they almost look forward to it, you know, like when you're little and you write on your notebook like, you know, Mrs. Naomi Cameron, if I wanted to marry Kirk Cameron, which I think.

it. Yeah. I remember. We all not seen the posters. Like there's something, like, what is that? What do you think that is for you where you're like, I kind of like that too? Where I like both. Yeah. I mean, I see the total merit of both. I think it is kind of nice to be like, I think the thing that I like about it is the thing we didn't have, have growing up and the thing we did have growing up weirdly. Like, I liked having like a mom who worked and I was like proud of her like career accomplishments and like, you know, that was a point of pride for me, I think.

And she used her own last name. So that was a nice part of that. But on the other hand, it's like, our family was very chaotic and it didn't, you know, we all, there was a bunch of different last names. Like, your last name is different than my last name is different than our mom's last name. Right. And so there is like a little bit of like, were we a cohesive family unit like not really. Right. And that's sort of a symbol of that. So when I do, lean into using Mike's name, it does feel like there's a little bit of like a nice safe security in We Are This Family. And I think when I have kids, it'll be, you know, maybe that'll be different. I feel like I'll use it more. Right. Because I like that idea of like we're all

we're in a family unit and I feel like it'll feel safer for them in some ways to all have the same name because that's something maybe I wanted more of and this is a symbol for what that would be. Right. Yeah, I definitely see it. I don't think in reality it will. I get it. It's like a quills a certain fear of like almost like they would take some extra undoing to undo this. Right. And I get that. But I think in reality, I don't think it makes you a stronger family unit. I think it's like an image of that or like like I said, it's harder to kind of undo it. It feels like an extra step that you'd have to take to, you know, kind of get out of it. But yeah, love the question. And I think to sum it up, I think you have to just see if he's open to hearing your perspective and having like a deeper

conversation about gender roles and how you feel and your identity. I mean, she's in her 30s. Like she's created a whole identity with this name. So he needs to be open to hearing that. And you need to be open to hearing his fears about why he's. He's like really digging his heels in here. And hopefully he can be vulnerable enough to share that with you. Yeah. And if not, maybe a red flag about the relationship. Yeah.

We'll see. All right. Let's do some intentions. I'll read them. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, first of all, I have to say I'm a big fan of oversharing and everything you do at Betches. I'm also from Long Island, but currently living in Houston, Texas.

All right. Bellow transplant, like you. I'm a new mom to a six-month-old and have really been enjoying motherhood so far. My biggest struggle has been postpartum anxiety and OCD, which is being managed fairly well with medication and a lovely therapist. Since becoming a mom, I've been bombarded with so much information about how common baby items are now considered toxic. Everything from plastic toys to car seats, mattresses, even clothing is allegedly covered in toxic chemicals. I try to choose the healthier alternative whenever possible, but it doesn't always fit within my family's budget.

It's hard not to be influenced by the messaging on social media telling me I'm poised. my child unless I buy their bespoke non-toxic product. This often leads me to feeling a ton of guilt and fear that my son will get sick later in life because of choices I made. I often find myself going down Google rabbit holes and spiraling over everything in our home. Whenever I have to buy new baby items, I spend more time than I would like to admit researching whether or not they are safe. This is interfering with my ability to be in the moment with my son and enjoy the precious time we have together. It's even led to some arguments with my husband who thinks I spend too much time obsessing about these topics. I try to keep in mind that not everything I read is fact and also

acknowledge that I will not always have control over what he plays with and consumes, especially when he's older and making his own decisions. I want him to enjoy his life and not be influenced by anxiety. I would love an intention for those moments when I find myself spiraling instead of being present with my baby. Thanks so much, anxious mama. Oh, I can actually relate to this. I've definitely, especially when my kids were very young, this idea of like researching, over researching some topic, that's some marketing person, again, not to harp on it, but I think it's the thread for this episode on like has created a narrative that's going to create some fear in me and force me to buy their product.

I've fallen into that hole because they do a great job of, you know, I see, I try to be conscious when I see it. It's almost like you're, you have to put on these lenses that like you're trying, like not to be brainwashed. Like you have to see all these ads and whether it's influencers or just regular ads that they are brainwashing you to be afraid for your child's future when you see these things. That's like designed to elicit this emotion and you already are having this hormonal postpartum anxiety. So. And it's. like I think the internet and social media and they're like incredibly accurate algorithms have made this that much worse.

I mean, we talk about repeating the same thought over and over again. If your phone so much is like, here's you whisper about a topic. Like all I'm showing, like I've been looking at, I'm redoing some renovations in my house and I'm doing kitchens. All I see are kitchens. All I see our kitchens and the ways, the things to make sure you have in your kitchen and things not to forget and six mistakes that I made when I was doing my kitchen. It's all I see.

It's like, and with this kind of thing, I think you look up one thing and then your phone hears you and they know that that's now a concern of yours. And that's all you'll be shown. Yes. And then it becomes your entire life because where do you live your life like kind of on your phone? Yes. Not out there.

Like it's like funny. Like when I get off my phone, I'm in the real world. I'm like, no one else is redoing their kitchen. So in the real world, it's not constantly being talked about. Right. On online, it's the only thing that I see. And, you know, it's almost like you need to take yourself out of that life. So I think that's part of it.

I think we need to not underplay like how your phone creates a world, creates the world that you live in almost. Yes. Yes. And then whenever you have a thought or a fear, you could just hop right on and Google it And get, you don't even need to Google it. You just go on the Explorer page and it's fed to you. Fed to you.

It's, yeah. Even that, that advertisement, that clickbait of like six mistakes I made when redo it. It's like feeding you this fear. Like you better not make these mistakes. You better click here to make sure that you don't make a mistake. So I think this listener needs to be mindful of all that. And look, the other piece of this is, and I'm not, I haven't researched that. I'm not a scientist, but everything that I've read around the factors that contribute to human

longevity, avoiding touching plastics is not one of them. Like that's, we're avoiding touching surfaces that have chemicals on them is not one of the things that contributes to longevity. It's like having a healthy diet, getting plenty of exercise, not smoking, drinking in moderation, Like these are the things that are going to contribute to longevity for your child. It's not whether or not his car seat, you know, has like organic fabric on it. So I know they're making you think that that's going to decrease his lifespan, but it's not. Like no research has shown that to this point.

And I think at this point, these chemicals have been around long enough that there would be some studies on correlations. Like there are people in this day and age that have lived a majority like organic lifestyle. And I have not seen any research that's saying this is extremely important so that you can help your child live

to a ripe old age. I guess it's hard because like theoretically it feels like organic or like more clean or like less toxic, whatever. Like that does feel like stuff. or it's like, oh yeah, like, I mean, even like, even if we don't know everything, like, I can imagine this would be better, right? So it's like, I should pick the better thing, right?

I should eat the organic fruit, like, if I can. But it's hard to, it's hard to have that attitude of like, when I can, I'll try to do this versus like, it's all, and all or nothing kind of feeling. Yeah, it's hard because it feels like, okay, if I'm doing this, I'm probably doing it for a reason. Like, why does it matter now, but it's okay then. Right. So it feels like you need to be extreme in order to actually do anything. Yeah. And I really, I do, I do get this, but I think ultimately one of the other factors that is shown to decrease life expectancy is stress. So you're fighting for something that really research hasn't proven is going to.

affect the life expectancy of your child at the expense of something that is proven to affect your life expectancy and his, which is like being anxious all the time about whatever it is, whether it's organic fruits or, you know, the fabric that is, you know, on his baby blankets or, you know, so I get it. I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, but I think it does sound like she's aware, her husband's aware that she needs to be a little bit more conscious. of how deeply she's digging into all of this. Right. And the intrusive thought is probably like,

well, what if he gets sick because I didn't get this because he's surrounded by the plastics or something like that? Yeah. So what would you give her as an intention for? Yeah. So, you know, the first one that I wrote, because I get into this sometimes too, where I'm like,

like, you know, if I'm buying a whatever, something for one of the kids and then I'll be sitting there in the room with them and they're like trying to talk to me or play with me but I'm reading like every review about the product to find out like I'm 20 minutes deep and reading the reviews and it's like wait right my kids are right here they're trying to interact with me and my faces in my phone trying to prevent them from having some thing while in the actual reality of it I'm not even present with them. So, you know, what I wrote for her is being present is more important than being perfect

and hoping that she can lean into when she catches herself. And this is the consciousness when she's catching herself down her rabbit hole where she's like, okay, I've been researching this product or reading these articles, you know, trying to find the best price on this like organic cover, whatever it is, to come to consciousness and be like, okay, this is actually like taking me out of being present in my life because I'm trying to be perfect for my child. Which is worse for your kid than again. Yes.

I firmly believe way worse for you to spend your kid's childhood on your phone making sure that they don't have any toxins touching them than it is for them to have a blanket that isn't organic, but you're like happily smiling at them. and like playing with them while they're on their blanket, or taking a break when they're sleeping and, like, recharging so that you can be more present when you are with them. Because some moms are just doing this, you know, the entire time that their children are napping or whatever,

they're stressing about this stuff. So you need that time to recharge more than you need to prevent your baby's skin from touching a chemical. Right. So I feel pretty, I hope she can believe that and buy into that and do the best you can when you can afford it or you see a deal, you know, go for it. But there, you know, and the other thing to remember is there's no real evidence that avoiding toxins will increase life expectancy.

But there is evidence that avoiding stress will. So you're fighting for one thing at the expense of something else that actually is going to have negative health consequences for you. And I remember, I remember you with your, with Lila, your oldest being very intense about the organic blueberries.

Totally. I mean, I get it. Now they have Cheetos. Totally. So, and, you know,

I think there, and I think the postpartum anxiety does play into this. I agree. Right. You know, like you're the hormones and the protective instincts

and you're going crazy. And so I totally, relate. Right. You have no proof of concept for like what it would be like if they had non-organic fruit. Whereas like I feel like the more kids you have, the more relaxed people get about that kind of stuff. Right. Because you're like, all right, they had it. They seem fine. You know, it's not worth it. The amount of, again, where your attention is is where you live your life. So if you want your attention to be on like researching products and having a toxic free home, that's going to be your experience as a mom. And that's, you know, it's fine. I guess you'll have control over this very

specific area. But I think it's taking up way too much space. But I, that being said, like you said, I totally relate. And even if they took, you know, the urine of a child, which they have, and they find that there's like toxins in their urine, okay, there's toxins in their urine. Does it mean they're going to die sooner? Or does it mean that their body's flushing? out the toxins that are in their urine. I don't know. I haven't seen a ton of research that's connecting that to any major health outcomes. Maybe it's out there.

If it is, send me the article. I'd be interested to see it. But I don't, you know, I don't think there's such a huge link that this is something that's worth turning your whole life upside down over. Yeah. And then again, like the writer wrote. eventually they like do their own thing and you can't control that anyway and they'll eat the foods that you don't want them to eat or they'll you know play with a toy you don't want them to play with

and yeah it'll be fine that's how it started for me it was like birthday parties once they started going to birthday parties and they were drinking like Hawaiian punch with like red dye number five or whatever I was like I'm not going to be that mom that's like going to be like can you just make sure that she doesn't have any Hawaiian punch. It's like, all right. I'm just going to have it and they're going to be fine. Yeah. Okay.

Well, good luck. I like that intention. Good luck, yeah. All right. Let's do some triggers. You want to read the first one? Sure. Hi, Jordana and Dr.

Naomi. Love y'all and the podcast. I have a triggered scenario for you, a little background. I'm a 30-year-old woman. I have no kids and I'm a medical provider in a pediatric office. It was a Friday afternoon and I was conducting my last appointment of the day for two young girls brought in by their mom. As I was doing my physical exam on one of the girls, her mom asked if I was expecting. The comment caught me off guard.

I was stunned for about 15 seconds and then said, no, I just have bad posture. Ha ha. The mom apologized quickly and I finished the visit and left. Maybe it was just the end of a very long week, but the comment hit a nerve and I cried all the way home. I have a past history of an eating disorder and I've worked for years to reach a healthy place, both mentally and physically. Sometimes when I'm tired, my posture relaxes and my tummy sticks out a bit. But should that justify a stranger commenting on my body? I've been asked if I'm married and if I have children by parents before, but I felt like this question crossed the line.

Okay, extra question, but how would you both have responded to her and how triggered can I be? Thanks, a no baby mama bitch. This is very triggering. I totally would understand that. I think that like, I think it's crazy when someone asks that unless it's like the most obvious thing in the entire world, which is like not, even like if someone is like eight months pregnant, I'll still be a little hesitant to like ask anything about, you know what I mean? I need them to say something to sort of infer that they're pregnant. Totally.

Yeah. I don't understand. It's like such common knowledge. Yeah. Especially she's the history of the eating disorder. I could see how that would be especially triggering. Yes. I think she responded in the perfect way.

It seems like the woman was embarrassed, like, anyway. I don't really know, like, what else she could have said. Like, I guess she could have, like, scolded her, but I don't know that that would have made her feel better. Yeah, and she's trying to, you know, she's the provider, and these are the patients, and she's supposed to be professional and, like, together. So this isn't like someone at the grocery store where you could kind of give them a smackdown.

if you wanted to. This is like a professional environment. Yeah, I think the way you responded was probably fine. I don't know what else, how else you could have responded, but it did make me feel like you had to make an excuse for your tummy, which I think that's the bigger part of this that I think would be helpful is like,

we all, like we talked about with the woman with the mammography, like we all have a tummy. Like you have a tummy. I get, you know, I totally get that her pointing out asking if you're expecting me to seem like it was larger than normal, which is the triggering part. It's almost like larger than normal, large enough to feel like, again, like okay asking. Yeah.

I think is the tough part, you know. Right. Yeah. I think it's this woman's, the mother's issue that she felt comfortable asking. I mean, how pregnant could you look? I mean, look, sometimes if I don't eat. the right thing and I have like a distended belly it really does look pregnant and like it's an uncomfortable feeling but it's it's just a you know it's like a yeah a wave of whatever for your body

like in that moment your body was a little bit of a different shape maybe your posture maybe you know whatever it was or you just have a little tummy and I would love your little tummy and rub your little tummy and just love your body and your shape and not feel like now you have to pull it in or be ashamed of it. And that's the hardest part, but that's, that would be the most healing, I think. Yeah. And even celebrities get this. Oh, yeah. Or they take a picture of them and then. Right. Are they pregnant? Yeah. Right. Which is like very rude. But it does happen. You see this like even like the, you know, the tiniest people I think can be victim to the speculation. Right. Yes. Yes. We're like, no, I just had some like fried food and broccoli last night. Like, thanks for asking. Right. But,

I'll validate this. I'd give it like an eight, especially she had an eating disorder, maybe even a nine. I think that's a, it's not something you'd want to hear. It sounds, again, I also don't think she should have said anything different

because it sounds like she said she was like embarrassed. I think that's enough that she's going to, she probably feels like she immediately regretted saying that anyway. Yeah. I mean, look, what I think if you wanted to work on saying at some point is like, no, that's just the way my tummy is.

Right. Like just as a way of kind of like making her feel embarrassed for asking you and owning your own shape. Because you saw your tummy yesterday and you saw your tummy the day before that and I think you were fine with it. So the idea that someone else is, you know, view, I get it validated. I agree with like an eight for sure. But I think there's so much power in kind of being like, this is my tummy and sometimes

it sticks out. and like that's okay. Right. And kind of like giving your body some self love in that moment would be great. So the only way that if you could, and it would be a big challenge, but if anything like that happens again, be like, no, this is just the shape of my tummy. Thanks for noticing. You know, like she made an excuse for it and I get it.

But like I would love if she got to a point where she didn't have to make an excuse for it because sometimes your tummy sticks out more. Sometimes it sticks out less. And that's just, you know, the way. waves of your body shifting and changing. Yeah, like it does for everyone, exactly. Totally, everyone, literally everyone. Let's do another one.

All right. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Ngui, we thank you so much for this podcast and all your advice and thoughtful input each week. This podcast is a regular in my weekly rotation. I always look forward to listening in. I have a triggered scenario for you. A few months ago, my relatively new husband and I, we got married in October 2023. We've been together for over four years.

We're laying in bed, watching a TV show, and our cat came up. got up on the bed and crawled onto my husband's chest to sleep. Completely straight-faced, my husband turned to me and said, I hope I die before him. I don't know what I'd do if he died before me. It's worth noting that our current cat is really my husband's pet, while my family has had all kinds of pets, including cats, dogs, birds, hamsters, guinea pigs, etc. ever since I was little.

So I understand that the importance of our cat looms much larger in his life than it does mine, even though I adore our cat. But I couldn't help but be seriously triggered by the idea that he might be seriously suggesting that he would rather die before our cat, even though our cat probably only has, at best, another 10 or 15 years to live. At the time, he had said it, we had only been married for a couple of months, and we were also in the midst of going through a bit of a newlywed rough patch as we were living with my family in preparation for moving into our own home, which was putting some strain in our relationship. I got over the comment eventually, but to be honest, it took me a couple days. How triggered can I be? Yeah, this is funny. I think she was focusing on the delivery more than the content.

I think what he meant to say is, I'll be really devastated when this cat dies. But he obviously, his delivery came off as like, are you going to like off yourself in 10 years? Like how is this going to work out? Like what's the plan here for you to die before this cat? Right.

I imagine he's being prestigious. But it's funny because like the irrational part of brain is like would probably be like well what about me like do you wish right yeah do you hope i die before you right i i had that was my thought too that she might have had like a little bit of a competitive moment with the cat totally i think that's like the the very clear thing where she's like do you even like me like you give more maybe it's like you give more affection to this cat yeah for me because she said they were going through this rough patch yeah and i think it's probably maybe verbally, maybe physically, you know, like they're laying in bed together.

The cat comes in and he's like, now has all his focus on the cat when they're like spending time together to the point with which he's expressing like his undying love for the cat. So I do think it's probably a symptom of maybe a bigger, I don't know if it's insecurity, but like that you need a little bit more of that like. Words of affirmation. him. Yeah, words of affirmation or an expression of his passion for you and wanting to spend time with you and his fears of losing you. But I also do think it was probably a missed opportunity because his delivery was so weird and poor to allow him to express. Because I think

people do have that a lot when they have a pet because the pets only are going to live, you know, 10 years or if it's a dog and you've had it for a few years, less than that. People do experience these pangs of like fear of their pet dying because they don't live as long as we do. So maybe it was a missed opportunity for her to lean into that a little bit and say like, oh, are you like, what are you feeling? And he might be like, I'm really scared like of losing him and this is what he means to me. And, you know, this is how I've experienced pet loss in the past. Like maybe there was an opening there that didn't get fully expressed because,

she was so put off by the way that he delivered this message. Right. It also kind of goes to show that like when you're in like kind of a mode with someone, then it can color everything. So it's not like every interaction is then tainted by like this feeling of tension. She said, what she was talking about that they had at the time, you know,

where like everything is overinterpreted or everything is kind of seen through the lens of like a jab, a personal jab. Totally. And that's a great point. And that's something to kind of be conscious of if you are having a rough patch with a friend or a partner or whatever that the undertone is going to color all of the comments. And that's why it's important to really, you know, not let resentment build because that's what happens, right?

Resentment starts to build or these feelings of disconnection. and then comments like this turn into like you love the cat more than me versus he's afraid of losing his cat and like let's have a conversation about that right which could potentially bring you together in a more intimate way but instead right seen as like this divider yes so i don't know if you want to go back to it and just you know you have had all these animals you've experienced pet loss he's afraid of pet loss i don't know if he's ever experienced that but i It's a real thing that pet owners have where they just look at their animals every now and then are like, oh my God, like you're not going to be here forever.

And I'm probably going to outlive you. And that's going to be a really sad time. So I think he was trying to open that dialogue. But I do think addressing if it's still happening or you guys are better now, great. If you're still feeling, which I agree with you, I think she might have been feeling like a little bit of lack of affection, then that's something that I think needs to be addressed too, where you need to feel like he feels that way about you too. Right.

All right. Well, I'd give it, the comment in itself, I'd give like a three or a two. Yeah. Because I just don't think it had anything to do with her. Yeah.

I think it was just a poor delivery, but I think she knows what he meant, which is like I'm really afraid of when this cat dies, that I'm going to be devastated. So yeah, I'd agree. I'd agree with a three or four on this. like you said because there was a rough patch it probably felt like a seven right but i wonder if you guys

were tight and everything was great you might agree with a three or four too i mean if immediately before he said this he said i never want to can you get out i never want to look at you again and he was like i hope i die before this cat so i don't live a day like the context does matter but assuming it was just a relaxing moment i think it's a little bit of a personalization of something that isn't personal. Right. Agree. All right.

That's our time. Great work today. Oversharing is produced by Sean Kilby. Editing by Jazz Apados. Guest booking by Allie Friedlander. And send your emails to Oversharing at Betches.com. Betches.