Oversharing - Do Men Care That I’ve Slept Around?

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

This week, Dr. Naomi tells Jordana about 8D music and the benefits of “brain flossing.” Our Overshare comes from a Betch who feels insecure about who she was 10 years ago, and worries that her new boyfriend will judge her for it. Today’s Betchicist goes out to a listener who suspects that her friend is becoming an anti-vaxxer. Dr. Naomi writes an intention for anxiety around car safety in the neighborhood. And, in our “Sweet Release” segment sponsored by Angry Orchard, we’re feeling triggered by invasive questions about future babies and friends who don’t Venmo in a timely manner. If you’d like to get these episodes a day early and ad-free, plus two bonus episodes per month where we answer more emails and have follow-up conversations with listeners for real-time advice, make sure to subscribe at subscribe.betches.com! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A quick note before we get into the episode, Oversharing is a podcast for entertainment purposes only. It is not a medical podcast and does not constitute medical or psychological advice. Always seek the advice of your physician or a mental health professional. Hello and welcome back to Oversharing. I'm Jordana Abraham. And I am Dr. Naomi Bernstein. How's it going?

How is your Super Bowl Sunday? I feel like it's probably really, really big in Texas. Yeah, it was a sad day in our house. We were rooting for the Chiefs. They got destroyed. But you know what? The mind of a child sometimes is such a beautiful thing. Like adults are all like depressed and said.

And Brooks is a huge chiefs fan. Like I'd say four out of seven days a week, he's wearing like chiefs gear. Oh, yeah. Like a shirt. And I saw him. Yeah, he's into it. But he was just like, okay.

Like once he knew they were going to lose, he's just kind of like stopped watching the game. He's like, this is not going to be enjoyable. if they start winning, call me, I'll come back. And he kind of enjoyed his evening and woke up today in a fine mood, whereas a lot of adults, I think, are not able to handle, like, they just, they stay attached, even when staying attached doesn't make you feel good. They can't detach.

And he's really able to do it. And even on Saturday, it was so cute. He had a basketball game. They were undefeated and they had their first loss. So I was asking him, I was like, you know, how do you feel? He was like, I'm fine because it's Saturday. And everybody loves Saturday. Aw.

Wow. Really living in the moment. I'm not going to ruin my Saturday. Like basically, I get one Saturday a week and not going to let it get me down. I love that. You must be overhearing your meditations. I think it's just like an ability to detach, which is interesting because it leads me into what I was going to share with you, which is, I've discovered this thing called 8D audio.

Have you ever heard of this? No, definitely not. Okay. So basically, you've heard of EMDR. Yes. It's the I thing. Yes. Right.

So there's something similar to EMDR, which is like any type of, EMDR is like bilateral stimulation. So like you move your eyes back and forth and it's supposed to help you reprocessing. a traumatic memory, like shifting back and forth between both sides of your brain. In short, I mean, it's complicated. It's more than that. But basically, you can do it with your eyes. And there's another technology that people are using where you can do it with audio. So instead of moving your eyes back and forth, when you're thinking about an anxiety-provoking event or whatever it is, you can listen to music that stimulates right, left.

right left, ideally with headphones. So that's one way that you can kind of do like a version of EMDR. Obviously EMDR you want to do with a therapist, but you can get some of the effects of EMDR with this 8D audio or bilateral stimulation audio. But I find if you go to your, whatever music service you're using and you type in 8D audio, what it does is it plays the song, but it like moves the music. So it sounds like it's coming out of your right ear and then it like moves the music and then it kind of sounds like it's coming out of your left ear. And with 8D, it's like kind of moves the music like surround sound almost. And that's with a song? With a song. Yeah. Like, oh, your choice, any song? I don't know that they have every song, but they have a lot of songs. So if you typed in like,

I don't know, whatever you want to listen to. One of the ones that I saw was the lovely song. So what does this do for you? So what it does is. basically you should try it. Free? Yeah, it's free. Go to like Spotify or whatever you use for music and type in like AD audio or bilateral stimulation music, either of those. Okay.

And if you want to go a little bit deeper, you can find ones that actually have like a clicking right left click. So it's like you hear the click in the right, you hear the click in the left. That's one option. And they have music in the background while you're hearing the clicking. or they have ones that's just like the songs that you know and love, but they sound like they're coming out of the right side, your right ear,

and then it switches and it moves to your left ear. Cool. So when you do this, and it's funny because I saw this playlist and someone called it brain flossing, which I thought was like the coolest. Because it goes like back and forth. You're right.

It's like flossing out. It's like cleaning out your brain in some ways, because when you think of an anxiety, that's why I tie it back to like Brooks and the Chiefs and his loss in his game, like he could stay stuck focused on that thing and like dig in, which is really using, he's like stuck in one side of his brain or we are when we're doing that. And when you practice this bilateral stimulation, it helps you just like get unstuck from one side of your brain. So you're almost like you're thinking this.

one track thing, this stressful thing. I'm ruminating. I'm ruminating. And this just kind of helps you reconnect to a different part of your brain and get a little bit unstuck. It's free listeners out there, you'll know more what I'm saying when you try it. So how do you feel before versus how do you feel after? Before you might be like kind of ruminating or stuck on a thought. And then after, you just feel a little bit, there's a difference between like focused attention and open attention. So what we talk about when we're meditating is more like open attention. Like I'm just going to absorb whatever's happening in the space right now. Just observe.

Yes. And focused attention is like, he didn't text me back. Why didn't he text me back? Maybe it's because of this. I'm waiting for the text. Oh, what if it's this? It's like you're like hammering at like one thought, you know, train in your brain. And this kind of helps you just detach a little bit from that.

thought process. I want to try. Definitely try it because you can use whatever music you want. Or if you want a little bit of a more intense experience, you can find ones where they have, like I said, this back and forth clicking. That's really stimulating right and left. And it's not music that you know. It's just like this clicking with like a background track to it.

That is like a more intense version. But if you just want to give it a try and listen to a song that you like, type an AD audio and pull up a song that you like. and try some brain flossing. Cool. Okay. Well, maybe I'll try with like a song that I know as a way to ease in. Yes.

I don't find it that jarring could try the real one. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I really enjoy it. It does feel a little bit. It's hard to explain exactly why, but it feels a little bit like you're cleaning your brain. Like you're just practicing being even. Well, that's what meditating to me feels like.

I'm like I'm like trying to do like a reset or like a do you know and I don't know if it's like I that's why I kind of a it does feel like work when you're meditating you know where you're like I don't because it kind of it to me like I'm trying to do it more but it always kind of feels like a waste of time when I'm thinking of doing it do you know what I mean? Not not because like I don't think there's benefits but just because I'm like all right well, now I'm going to take 10 minutes when I could be like cleaning my house or doing something or exercising and I'm just going to like do nothing. Yes.

And it's harder than anything else. Yes. But the biggest piece, and I'll say this a million times, is you have to like have no expectations when you're doing it. Even with this bilateral 8D audio thing, like if you go into it, like I want to feel this. it's less likely to work and you're not going to get the experience of it. So like with meditation, you can't go into it, be like, I want to quiet my mind. I want to relax. I want to feel differently.

You just have to have that moment be, I'm just going to observe whatever happens right now and try to be like non-judgmental about whatever's happening. Well, that's why it's so hard to be motivated to do it. Right. It's like if you know what I mean, if you go in, to me, at least I think we're taught we're so trained societally to be like, what is the output? What is the output? If I'm doing something, it needs to have like, or at least me, that's how I think of

things. Like what is the gain? What's the benefit? And you're saying like it works best when you're like, don't go in looking for that. Right. So I'm like, well, how do I get myself to even do it? Right. That's why it's hard.

You hit the nail in the head. It's hard because there's no guarantee. Like everyone loves the 30 second thing of like do this and this will happen. Right. This is not that. This is like just observe whatever is unfolding and allow it. And then when the bell goes off, you're finished. Like without expecting or wanting or the only thing you're trying to do is you're just trying

to be aware of what's happening. That's it. That's the only objective of it. of what's happening in your brain. Yes. And in the room, in your body, in your brain, in your space. I'm just going to be aware of it. And you're going to lose that awareness too.

Like you're going to go in and out. Get lost in thought. And then, and I'm back. That's my favorite mantra. And I'm back. The end on back thing has been really helpful to pull me back. I've been saying that to myself when I'm trying to do it. And then I'm like, you know, when you're like so deep into the thought,

thought and you're like, how did I even get here? And then you realize, and then you do the end, I'm back. And it does feel like you reset the whole thing. Yeah. It makes you realize, like, where was? I was off in a place that probably wasn't making me feel great and just stressing me out for no reason. Right. And I think it's like letting go of that guilt that you thought so deeply about this thought. Because sometimes it's not even like, oh, a fleeting thought. It's like, you've gotten pretty far into the thought. And it's, you almost feel like, well, why am I even doing this? Like, I, like, I've just wasted this time because I tried to do that. But I think that if you take away the judgment, it makes it easier to get into.

Yeah. And like you said, the outcome. Like, why did I just think about, why was I just there for 30 minutes? I can't leave until I come up with the conclusion, the answer, the reason why I was. No, you just got lost, meandering in the woods. And now you're back on the trail. Yeah. Yeah.

Love it. All right. Well, that's your Tuesday motivation to, you know, get back into it. Yeah. And let us know. Yeah. Let us know how you. like if you try the 8D audio or bilateral stimulation music. I'm really curious how you guys like it.

Yeah. Write it in the Spotify comments. If you guys try it or write a review, we love reading all the feedback. I like reading the Spotify comments especially because that's really fun because you get those like in response to an individual episode as opposed to the Apple reviews where it's like the podcast as a whole. Right. Totally. And oh my God, we didn't even mention this is our big YouTube debut. Yay. We're really excited. Now you can watch us in addition to listening to us. You can obviously still just listen if that's your thing. But head to YouTube. Subscribe. It's a great way to support this show. Even if you're like, YouTube's not really my thing. I'd prefer audio. Just go subscribe. You never know. There might be something that you might find fun about it. Yeah. Maybe you could see my dogs pop in. Then you'll get to see what they look like. Sometimes they come for a visit. So that's an incentive to check. out the YouTube. Exactly. And again, it's free to subscribe, supports the show. We would appreciate it. And if you like watching stuff on YouTube, today is a new day for you because all of the episodes are going to be uploaded onto YouTube. And it's, yeah, a new era. Very excited. Very cool. Also, in terms of

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I'm really excited about the subscription. So hope to see you there. And if you want to check out our February, we already have one of our two bonus episodes out. We did a listener mailback. So we responded to a few of your feedback emails, you know, and we respond to emails that aren't necessarily flattering. People have beef with us. We respond. We give our our take in response to you guys and issues you might have had with the show. And then also we did a bonus email. This bonus email is about a listener writes in and she's getting married and she's having some second thoughts, which I know a lot of people have or think about and don't necessarily feel like there's a place to share that or they're too embarrassed to tell anyone. So it was great to be able to really

delve deep into like what those kinds of doubts are and what you can do about it and, you know, listening to what they mean. Yeah, that was really fun to unpack that. So come check it out. And again, I haven't heard anything negative about the subscription stuff. So, So if you guys love it, let us know. If you have some things you think could even improve it, we're always open to feedback. You can email oversharing at betches.com. Or you can leave us your own feedback voicemail or email because, again, we are open to feedback. Yeah.

Unless it is mean-spirited. And you can leave us a voicemail at 646-363-6294 or email us at oversharing at betches.com. I'm going to read our overshare. You ready? Let's do it. Okay. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, a huge fan of the podcast, been a listener since day one. We'd love to get your advice on a situation I'm dealing with.

I, 29 female, recently started dating this guy. Let's call him Jake. We've only been on three dates in the last two weeks, but things have been going really well. I haven't had this much chemistry with someone since my last relationship. And on top of that, so far, he seems like a really sweet, smart, and overall, really good guy. The problem is, I am dreading having to inevitably confront some stuff from my past if things between him and I get serious. For context, I was definitely a late bloomer when it came to dating. I didn't get much male attention in high school and I didn't have my first kiss until I was

16 despite being relatively normal and attractive in high school. Looking back, it had to do with a mix of insecurity, shyness, and the small dating pool of the town I grew up in. When I went to college 10 hours away from home, I kind of started over and began to have guys interested all around me. In the moment, all of this male attention felt really good because of this, lots of alcohol, and my own insecurity, it led to me sleeping with way more guys than I'm proud of in my first three years there, about 20 to 25-ish. I strongly believe women should feel empowered with their sexuality and sleep with whoever they want without shame, but I was doing it for the wrong reasons. Every single time I slept with someone after these drunken one-night stands, I would feel

regret and embarrassed. Then, if they wouldn't want to hang out again or rejected me after, I would blackout drunk text them a million things like an actual lunatic and feel humiliated. At the time, I didn't fully realize, but after a ton of reflection and work on myself, I realized I was using sex, or rather the fact that guys wanted to have sex with me. As validation, I was worthy as a person because I was lacking the self-respect and confidence to get it elsewhere. I ended up getting into a relationship my senior year with this guy who was amazing, and it really helped me with realizing I can be loved just for who I am.

After that relationship didn't work out, I did a good amount of therapy and self-help books, and now I'm in a place where I'm really, really proud of who I am and know my worth wholeheartedly. I found this confidence in myself about five years ago and I've had a really happy and positive outlook on dating since. After college, I moved to a different city across the country. I'm killing it in my career, made a whole new group of friends, have had two serious and healthy relationships and overall love my life and myself. Great. Back to this new guy. I have been on three dates with. He went to the same college as me and we are only one year apart. The school I went to was mid-sized. I know he has a ton of friends from college he keeps in touch with and some even

live in our city. I honestly feel like a 100% different person than the girl I was at 19 years old, but I'm so nervous that some of his friends may have heard about my past from a reputation I built and tell him about it. I'm afraid it'll lead him to judging me and breaking things off or judging me and slowly pulling back, giving him a tainted look over who I was 10 years ago. Part of me doesn't want to bring it up because that's not who I am anymore. And another part of me wants to get in front of this and tell him about my past to see if he's either empathetic to it or give him the option to back away. Any advice on how to handle this would be so appreciated. Thanks, a regretful betch. All right. Well, I want to start off by telling her, like, this is many girls' story. Yeah.

Like, you're not alone. All the sex that's happening in college. There's two people involved. in that. So this is happening. And I'm sure you're not the only girl that he's dating or dated that slept around in college. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I would again, I would totally normalize it. I feel like the way that she's positioning this kind of makes me feel like she thinks of it as this like huge stain on her reputation or like something that she did that was really horrible that she needs to hide. And I don't see it that way. I mean, I think maybe the part that she thinks is more embarrassing is that she would like the texting call or text the guys a million times. And again, like, I think we've all done that here and there. I don't know how like, seems like she's saying she did it a lot. But like it's also,

she's 29. This has been like eight to 10 years ago. I don't think, again, at nothing she's saying is making me think like this is such a crazy situation. But again, it's more about how she thinks of it, right? Yes. And I think she is honing in on these two, like, shameful areas that I think women specifically are shamed about. And a lot of times stuff, stuff that they will hear guys talk about their exes, like that more so like my ex was psycho, like being called psycho or like being labeled with me. Obsessive. Yeah, obsessed. Psycho.

All this talk that people say, I think that becomes an insecurity. when you've done the thing where you've like texted multiple times or like, you know, exactly the behavior she's describing. So I think that's like one shameful aspect that a lot of people have done also. And guys do it too. But somehow like I always feel if you're dating someone who says that their ex was psycho, like there's more to it. That's going to be you soon.

Well, I mean, that's something like usually that's something. who isn't really giving a contextualized, nuanced version of a breakup. To me, that's a red flag. If someone describes their ex is crazy, that usually is more of a red flag about the person who's describing them that way than the person they're talking about. Yes, totally. So I think that's like a shameful thing that people throw around. And then obviously like her shame around, you know, how liberal she was sexually. So which I think is pretty common in those context. And then, So yeah, I mean 20 to 25 people in three years, that's like seven people a year. I would say that for college, I feel like that sounds not that far away from probably

if you pulled a hundred people, you'd be somewhere not on the extreme fringes of the scale. Right. And the other piece of this that I think is like, and I don't know, this would probably be a good question for Jared. I'm curious what he would say about it. But I do think that like when women start dating someone, they'll do the thing where they like ask people that know them from college and kind of get like a read on their reputation. And I think guys are more like if I like you and we're viving and you're cool, I don't care that some guy says that you slept around in high school. Like I don't think that's going to matter as much as maybe a girl who asks around and hears that some guy was like, you know,

I don't necessarily agree with that. I do think a guy would ask if he had a mutual friend or someone who like knew them. I do think he would ask. But I don't think that how many people she slept with for most guys. Again, most mature guys who are living in a modern world and are okay with women feeling sexually empowered. I don't think most guys are going to care about how many people in college you slept with. If there's someone, again, who, who you would want to date. Right. And the truth is, if the chemistry is there and you guys are really clicking,

if he's going to end it because 10 years ago in college, you slept around with a bunch of guys. You had a good time. Yeah. Like, I just think that the chemistry probably isn't as strong as, you know, you thought it was if he's ending it for that reason. Unless he's like a super religious, like, you know, if he's extreme on that, then maybe you're not.

the best match, but I can't see a lot of guys endings. I could see even maybe if she was like 23 and this just happened or 22 and this just happened. This was a long time ago. Right. And here's the other part of it, I think. Like, does she think to tell him this? I don't think she needs to tell him at all. Like, I don't think this is any of his business. Really, again. if she wanted to tell him this, to me, this is like an interesting part of telling someone about who they are. Like the way she explained this to me seems like a really empowering, really, like, mature person who's talking about their life experiences and how they've shaped who they are

and how they've gotten to where they are now. And to me, that's an interesting story to hear from someone I'm dating, like how, I mean, not through the formal question of how of your past experiences shaped who you are, but in generally getting to know someone and learning about it. them. To me, this is like a really cool story. Like it's like you used to act a certain way. It didn't make you feel good. And then as you've become more aware of who you are and became more confident, you changed. Like who doesn't have some version of that story? This is your version of it. It has to maybe it was more displayed through people used to have sex with or, you know,

maybe like clinginess that you exhibited in college. But to me, it could be anything. And it's more like, This is how I've evolved as a person. That's an interesting story to me. I would want to hear about that for my date. Yes. This is a great fourth date, fifth date conversation where you're getting a little deeper. You're being vulnerable if you want to. I don't think you have to.

I think the idea that I have to get ahead of it before he finds out from someone else, like, you know, I don't think that's necessary. But I agree with you. I think this is a great intimate conversation. And I would love, I agree, love to hear this from a date. who's someone who's kind of like, here's a mistake that I made. Here's how I reflected on it. Here's how I kind of do things differently.

So if you feel like it, if it comes up naturally, I would say just what you said to us. And if it doesn't come up, I honestly would just, I think you could self-sabotage this, which I've seen by being so anxious about it that you go to the fourth date and you're in your head and you're not having fun and you're not chill and you're not just like, you know, riding the wave that you guys have been writing because you're so in your head about this. So agreed. And I wouldn't even phrase it as a mistake. I would phrase it as an experience that you tried that didn't feel good. Right. Because again, I don't think anything is a mistake if she didn't have, if she didn't do that, have that experience of like working out her,

probably her sexuality and her relation to sex and her figuring out what felt good mentally and what didn't, she wouldn't be where she is today. So totally. I think I would like own it. again as like something that got you to where you are. For sure. Yeah. Well, good luck. Keep us posted. Let's do a bet you want to read it?

Yes, I will read this. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Jordana. Love the podcast and all the intel you share, looking for help on how to proceed with a recent discovery. I'm 30 years old and live in a major city in the South. I have a friend that I met through work, a company that consults medical devices and pharmaceutical companies on getting FDA approval. She no longer works at the company, but is still in the medical field.

We grabbed drinks or dinner every few months or so, and at our most recent hangout this week, she told me she just found out she was pregnant with her first. Yay. I'm engaged in don't have babies on the brain right now, but I'm very excited for them. We talked a lot about her experience. She's definitely starting to lean on the crunchier side of lifestyles, for example, drinking raw milk, pays a lot of attention to food research, etc. But she's very well researched, citing articles and publications that support her choices. She's also had a mock tale at the bar we went to, so it's not like her lifestyle forces her to control everything around her. It seems balanced. She even cited articles about how there's a reasonable amount of alcohol you can drink during

pregnancy, should that be something you're comfortable with. All of this to say, she's very intentional and thoughtful about her lifestyle choices, and though I don't pay as much attention to my personal consumption, I like the discussion. However, when we were heading our separate ways, she invited me into her home to let me borrow a book on marriage prep that she said was helpful. When inside, she showed me all of her pregnancy preparation books, one of which was titled something like raising an unvaccinated family. I was floored. I had an inkling that this was in the line of her current lifestyle choices, and there was a side comment about RFK's policies made during our hangout. But she has a master's degree in microbiology. I thought surely this wouldn't be on the table,

given the grave danger it is towards other people and public health in general, and given our shared scientific backgrounds. She does not have any religious or health restrictions that would necessitate this choice. It was purely a lifestyle type book. Given our location, I'm often exposed to political ideologies I don't agree with, and it's frequently disheartening when trying to establish relationships here, as I feel like some choices are extremely personal. However, I'm really at a loss with how to handle this situation. I didn't say anything in the moment because I was taken aback by it, but as individuals who work in the medical industry,

particularly the regulations and approval around them, I can't fathom how someone would pursue this choice when there's so much potential for harm and the claims supporting unvaccinated kids are largely based on incorrect or falsely attributed findings. I'm also friends with many doctors, including my brother, and have heard horror stories of these decisions. How do I handle this? While she isn't my closest friend, I don't have many friends of my own in the city and thought this was a relationship I can invest in. She even texted me after saying how fulfilled she felt by our friendship and I felt so icky when I lied in my response to her saying, same here, while I was simultaneously thinking about how to slow fade out of the friendship. Do I bring up my discomfort to her? I don't really have an interest in hearing someone tout any benefits of not vaccinating children.

but I don't want to jump to the immediate conclusion that she's going to make this choice. Maybe the book was just for research. Again, I don't have kids of my own, but fully plan to vaccinate them whenever I do. I don't think I'd feel comfortable being around her children knowing the health risks it presents. And I certainly would never bring my future kids around them whenever that situation arises. Any help or advice on what to do here would be appreciated. Thanks, a public health-minded batch. I thought this was an interesting one.

Yeah. I feel like she's drawing a lot of conclusions and she's thinking very far into the future. And she's doing what I feel like is very socially acceptable these days, which is to like take something that feels political and then draw a lot of conclusions into that person's morality and worthiness as a person or a friend. based on their choices. And again, I'm not saying that she has to accept or believe in this person's choices, but it does seem like she's letting whatever she thinks of this potential decision. Again, she doesn't even know if this is what she's doing. She's basically allowing that to make her not want to be anywhere near this person,

which is very common these days. It's very acceptable. And I kind of don't think it should be. I'm guilty of this too. I think I've done this too where you're kind of like, that person voted for this person, like, ugh, or like that person is, you know, choosing to do this. And then you kind of like write them off as like an other. Yes.

And I get it also because she works in the healthcare field. So she's like, I don't, it doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand it. She must know all these things that I do. So I understand why she's like, she wouldn't agree with the choice. But to then go so to get to immediately go to, I'm going to slow fade away from you for does seem kind of sad and extreme. Yes.

And I'm glad we're taking this email because I agree exactly with what you said that like we take someone's opinion on one issue and then size up their entire moral code based on how they feel about that one issue. And it's also, it's a book. So this is another extreme because it's like a book that she has in her house that she saw out of the corner of her eye. It's not even like she picked it up and was like, this is my new favorite book. You've got to read it. Right. There's some really great information in here. Like she's not touting anything. She's not pushing it on her. Yeah.

She's not pushing it on her. She's right. Maybe it is research. The other hard part about this one is I do think that everyone's entitled to make their own choices for themselves. I think the sticky part comes in when you are trying to convince other people. And so vaccination is one of those issues where she might have whatever her reasons are why she doesn't want to vaccinate. But vaccination is like a civil duty, right? It's not just like. It's supposed to be good for everyone. Yes. It's not just like I'm worried about this for myself because whatever your reasons are or maybe there is some information in that book that allows you to feel like this makes me scared of getting vaccinated for some reason. But I think part of her concern is that we'd hope that most people

come out of it with, but I'm still going to do it because it's like part of my contribution to society, even though there may be some potential small risk to myself, which maybe there is or isn't. I'm not voting it. I'm not weighing it on that. But even if there was, which there probably isn't, but even if there was, I'm doing it anyway, because it's part of how we keep the collective safe. So I can see that that's the part that's concerning her is that she's not public, like she signs off as public health-minded batch. And her friend might just be a health-minded batch and not a public-health-minded batch. Like she might just be kind of selfishly concerned, about her own personal health and like digging in on, you know, on this.

Right. It's almost like if you saw someone who was like littering. Right. Right. If they're like, if you were on a walk with a friend and they just took their like sandwich wrapper and they just like threw it on the floor and kept walking. Right. You might be like, well, that's easy for her.

She doesn't have a garbage. So she's doing it for herself, but she's not doing it for the public good. Could you then draw the conclusion that this person is a little bit of, more selfish than I thought. Maybe. Yeah, perhaps. But I think if she's being honest, there's probably things that she's selfish about, too, to a certain extent.

Like, you know, maybe she has a cough and she really needs to like get something done at work that day. So she goes to work anyway, even though she has a cough. That's selfish, right? Like, I want to get my stuff done. I don't think I'm going to infect anybody. I don't think I'm going to cause an epidemic to break. out. So I think we all make these choices. Right. And sometimes when it feels like there's a line,

like I have this book and it's, you know, it really is in the best interest of most people to vaccinate your kids and get vaccinated yourself. I think that there probably are things that people are doing that are selfish. So I wouldn't write off this entire friendship based on this one issue. I agree. And I think that, but it would also be perfectly reasonable for when she has kids and that let's say she's now at this point or you could ask her about the vaccination book that you could ask her about the vaccination book without judgment hear her take on that and let's say when she has kids you don't want to be around those kids because they're unvaccinated I think it would be totally perfectly fair to say hey I actually like I feel a little unsafe

being that's your choice like you could totally say that you could create your own boundaries among the choices that she makes again everyone's entitled to their own choices, you can also make your own choices and not be around someone who does that. But I think that that can be done in like a non-morality, like, judgmental way. I get to choose mine. You get to choose yours. And yeah, I agree with her potential kids that she doesn't even have yet. But it's almost like, and we get this a lot and this is human nature. It's almost like the stepmom that's like, I don't want to put the sandals on the porch because when I am pumping, I don't even own a pump, when I, you know, when I'm pumping and my baby's crying and the diaper needs to be changed,

I don't want. It's like, but that hasn't happened yet. So like. Right. Well, you're using that as like a, as evidence or justification for what your opinion is, is what that you don't like, you don't like, you don't like this thing about this person. And it's. And it's going to be a problem at some point. So I need to like make a decision on it now. Yeah. And I kind of want to punish you a little bit for what I think of as a responsible choice. Yes. I think it's a little bit of a part of it.

It's funny when Mike and I got married, I think we had like a vaccination, a mandatory which is like all the rage in COVID, like a mandatory vaccination requirement for coming to the wedding. And it was like a debate of ours because he didn't really want to like put it on there. And I was like, I wanted to do it. And part of the reason I wanted to do it, if I'm being honest, was a little bit like trying to shame anyone who didn't get vaccinated. Right. Like you're not invited.

Right. Right. Part of it is obviously for the safety of the guests, but I would be lying if there was no part of it that was like, and I think that was, I actually do think that was a reasonable ask. But I do think if I'm being totally honest, there was a little bit of a part of it of like, I want you to like have to tell me. Right. Right. Right. Right. You secretly haven't gotten vaccinated. Yes. I'm going to smoke you out. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I. get it. And I do think there's some validity here. But I think the bigger picture issue is what you described. And as everyone's listening, to think about how quickly you size up a person based on their stance on a political issue. Because I think most of these people, and I've heard this so many times, like, if you follow this person through their day, they're a good human being. They're treating people kindly. They're acting in ways that you would act. They're like handling.

themselves as a really nice, great human. But when it comes to like a potential, you know, issue that could arise in a situation, the way that they decide today that they would handle a potential situation down the road is going to change whether or not you can be friends with them, which I think people should think a little bit more about. Right. Well, there's very little room these days for disagreement without. like demonizing.

And that helps people, I think, almost feel so strongly about their convictions. Like there's another camp and we've gotten feedback about this of like, it is privileged to say that everyone can do their own thing when like the negative things of someone not getting vaccinated might not affect you. Right. Sure. But again, I think it's more about it's not saying that you have to agree with anyone. I think it's more like you can listen to their side of it, hear what their rationale.

is still disagree and then enjoy the parts of them that you do like while putting up boundaries with the part of them that you don't like. Right. Yep. I agree. And it's, you know, it really comes down. And I've said this before, like, people are just really scared of different things. And because you're more scared of one thing than you are of something else doesn't make you an evil human that I can't be around. Like right now, she's probably just reading something that's making her feel really scared of like putting vaccines into her baby or herself. And like, okay, right? Like I, she's really scared of that.

She's not doing it because she's evil. She's maybe like in some rabbit hole or like reading something that's scaring the crap out of her. And she's afraid of doing vaccinations. I'm not saying that like I think she should be vaccinating her kids. I think it's civic duty. I agree with all that. But when you get that temptation to judge someone based on their stance on an issue,

they're scared of something. It's different than what you're scared of, but they're scared of something and it comes from their experience, whether it's a privileged experience or whatever it is. That's just what they were born into. And would it be great if they could broaden their horizons? Sure. And maybe you can have a conversation about it.

But I don't think it makes them like morally evil. Exactly. Yeah. All right, well, let us know how this one goes if you do confront her about it. I'm interested to hear if people could have a civil discourse on these kinds of things. Totally. That would be great. All right, let's do some intentions. I will read them. Hi, Jordana and Dr. Naomi.

I love this podcast so much and I look forward to every Tuesday when I can listen. I have a neighborhood situation that is truly causing me so much stress and anxiety and would love your advice or even an intention. I love this one because it reminds me of your story from last week. Oh, yeah. My husband and I live in a subdivision that has an HOA. We moved here a little over two years ago. I worked from home, and we also live on a corner lot so I can see all the cars coming and going down the main road that goes through our neighborhood. Lately, I've become so angry at how fast people are driving down the street.

I notice it when walking the dogs. We have no sidewalk, so I have to be in the street. And I notice it when I'm just looking out the windows, didn't see the cars zooming by. I have resorted to yelling at cars when I'm on my walks with the dogs to slow down. One old man even yelled at me after I did this. I had headphones on, so no idea what he said, but I literally asked you to slow down and you're yelling at me. I've called the sheriff and made a complaint. I've emailed the HOA president who has not responded and even put a call and email into the county to request our speed limit be reviewed.

The speed limit is 30, which is pretty high for a neighborhood. usually it's 20 to 25. I don't even know what I'm looking for other than to see if I've become a crazy person, L.O.L. Am I validated and being frustrated with people who speed when kids and animals are around or maybe an intention on what to do when this happens and it's out of my control? Thanks. Is this one of those Karens that you were talking about last week?

Okay. So screaming at cars slow down is a pretty Karen-esque move. However, I will validate her. There's no sidewalks. And she sounds like she has at least two dogs. Yeah. She said dogs. So if I were walking multiple dogs on the street with no sidewalks and people were

flying by, I would be scared. Like that feels unsafe. So I get that. If there were sidewalks in this neighborhood, I think she would have like no like to stand on. She bought the place. That was the speed limit. It sounds like it's not even that people are. speeding, it's like the actual speed limit, she thinks it's too fast.

So I get why the people are like, I'm going the speed limit, like, fuck off. Right. Right. So also, yeah, I could see that. There's like a turn in my neighborhood where like you can't really see and cars go really fast. I'm like judging them. I'm not screaming at them.

But I am like, it does give you a little jolt of fear for your life. Yes. Yes. Yes. And this is one of those cases where, I don't know, like you said, it could be scary if it's around a curve or especially if it's at night and, you know, there's no sidewalks and she's walking the dogs. So that's a hard thing. Like she picked, unfortunately, she picked this place. She knows she has dogs.

There's no sidewalks. And this is the speed limit. And yes, people probably are speeding on top of that. And that is scary. And I get it. However, sounds like she's done everything that she can do. here. She's emailed the HOA. She's called the sheriff. She's approaching people individually. I think this is one of those cases where she just has to accept. This isn't going to change. Right. Now, you have to do what you

have to do to tolerate it. So like, yeah, if I'm walking, especially if it's dark or darkish, I would wear reflective clothing. I would have the dogs wearing like reflective harnesses and do what you can to, you know, make sure that you're safe, it is a scary situation. Perhaps, I don't know if it's as scary as I'm even making it out to be. Or if she's just annoyed because it like jolts her nervous system. Because she's saying she's even getting annoyed when she's in the house. Right. I don't know why she's annoyed when she's in the house, I guess for others, for the public safety.

Right, right, right. I think she's just like, this is not okay. This is a residential neighborhood. And I do think a lot of neighborhoods are set up. My neighborhood's kind of set up like that too, where there is like one main road that goes through the neighborhood. And that's the road that you can go the fastest on. And then on all the little side streets where kids are typically like running in the middle of the street or whatever, you have to go slower. But this is the house that you picked.

It's right near one of these main roads in the neighborhood. So I think at this point, you do what you can to like make yourself. feel safe both physically and mentally, and you have to kind of, like, give up this battle. I don't think she's going to win to change the entire speed limit of the entire neighborhood. So our advice is to give up. And no, I kind of agree with you. She seems like she's done. It seems like she's done everything she could do.

I don't know if she really wants to change the speed limit. I guess she could rally the neighbors or something. Maybe make a Facebook post or something in the neighborhood group and say. Yeah. This is the cause that she really cares about. She can do that. And but I think getting an intention from you, which is why we put it in this section, I think would help her to not catastrophize it or to kind of settle her brain when she's feeling like that triggered feeling of, I guess, not feeling safe. I would assume it's not feeling safe. It seems like a little anger and a little bit of not. anger at others for not considering her safety. Right. And I think ultimately she has to decide whether she's safe or not. If she genuinely doesn't feel safe,

then she might have to like walk her dogs elsewhere or like walk elsewhere, which is really hard. I get it. I have two dogs also. Like the fact, the idea that I'd have to like walk them around my backyard or get them in the car and walk them seems absurd. But like if you genuinely don't.

feel safe, like you're going to die, then you have to find another way around it. But if I think if you're making the choice, like, okay, I'm going to be okay. This isn't ideal. This isn't maybe even fair. This doesn't feel just, but I'm going to be okay. Then I think that is kind of where you can lean in with the intention, which is because the other thing is I think it's just jarring her nervous system. And I noticed this a lot. When you're you're nervous, like just the zooming sound of a car or when you're walking, like the puff of air that you feel when a car goes by too fast from behind you and you don't see it, it gets your nervous system activated. And our habit is when our nervous system is activated, we look around

to like size up the situation. Whose fault is it? How can we prevent this from happening again? How do I take control of the situation and fix it? So that's her go-to. two, but she's done all that and it's not working. So I think in long story short, the intention that I wrote for her is, I am scared, but I'm safe. If she's safe, if she really isn't safe, then she has to go elsewhere. But if she's decided that she's safe and she's going to walk her dogs, you can simultaneously be scared in your body, but know in your mind that you're safe.

And I think that's probably what's happening. I think if this was really like, I don't know the neighborhood. I know nothing about it. But if this was really a safety hazard, other people would be also. Right. And maybe that's, maybe that is your next step before you move to like acceptance is see if you can rally the troops. Right. Put up a post.

If it's truly an issue, someone else will be on board with that. Yeah. Yes. So if you can get other people on your side and they really are also feeling unsafe walking, then great, go for it. But if that's, for a speed bump. Yeah.

And that could happen. Look, that's why some of that stuff happens. Or, you know, somehow like a, you know, a little pathway or something

that she can walk safely, whatever the case might be. But once you've done all that and it's not working, then you have to trust that like your body can tell you that you can feel scared, but also your mind can let you know. But I'm safe. So, Yeah, I get it.

Walking two dogs when there's no sidewalk and people are driving fast sucks, I would be scared too. But I think probably if it's a straightaway, you're safe and you just have to remind yourself, like, I am going to be okay. This might not be fair, but it might not be ideal, but I'm going to be okay. Agreed. All right. Give it a shot.

Good luck. Let's do some triggers. All right. We're not keeping anything bottle. up and neither is Angry Orchard, our sponsor for today's episode. Angry Orchard is here to shake things up by sponsoring our triggered segment, helping you guys get that sweet release. Whether it's a petty annoyance or a full-on rage spiral, your feelings deserve to be felt,

and then let go. Write or call in and tell us what you're triggered about this week and will help you uncap all the feelings. Okay, let's do our first one. Okay. Dear Jordana and Dr. Naomi, I recently had a conversation with a friend that left me feeling triggered, but I'm going back and forth on whether it's something I should genuinely be upset about. So I'm coming to you for the official ruling. I was hanging out with three close friends from college. We're all 33 now. Two are married with kids. One is about to move in with her long-term

partner, and I'm single and dating intentionally, aka looking for a husband. While we watch the young kids play in the ball pit, friend number three asked the two married friends about parenthood, since she and her partner are considering having kids in the future. Then she turned to me and ask triggering question number one. Do you want to have kids? I was caught off guard. We've been friends for 15 years. How does she not know the answer to this? I've always been vocal about wanting kids, love spending time with our friends' kids, and I'm a teacher.

My response was just as simple, yeah, hopefully, followed by an awkward shift on the couch as I clearly didn't want to continue the conversation. Then came triggering question number two. Would you ever do it alone? Again, I was blindsided. It felt like the subtext was, you probably won't find a husband in time. So if you want kids, you'll have to do it alone. Maybe I'm just projecting, but is that what she was implying, even if subconsciously? Am I being overly sensitive? I think there's a time in place for these types of personal conversations,

but read the room. I wasn't interested in having that talk in that moment. Hence the awkwardness am I not engaging further. The whole thing just left me feeling even more aware of my biological clock ticking and wondering if all my married friends secretly think I'm running out of time. So, how triggered should I be? Thanks for your input. If only I could press snooze on my biological clock. I like this one because, like, I could see why she would be triggered by this statement. I don't think her friend meant it in this triggering way. I could see why she would imply that's what someone meant, but to me, it was almost

like her friend asking, like, how badly do you want kids almost? Right. Like, do you kind of want kids or do you want them like so much that like, even if you never met someone, you would do it anyway? But like I agree with her. That should be a conversation that she brings up. Right. I think that that's like that's not something you just want to be randomly thrown at.

Right. Right. It's a big question like for a day at the ball pit. Yeah. Right. I think it would be a fine conversation to have with a good friend. But I think that I agree that context is important. If she was if she was bringing up something about kids and really wanting kids and then her friend asked her that,

I don't think it would be like so. offensive. But I think to just kind of be bombarded with that is a little irritating where if she is your good friend and she knows you're single and don't want to be, I think it's kind of an annoying question. Yeah. I think the first question, do you want kids? I think that's okay. I think that's like a question that you could ask. Like, I'll ask my kids and they're like little. Do you want kids one day? You know, like just pick their brain. What do you think? I guess it's more that she's like, oh, I've always talked about loving kids. So like, you should know that I want kids. Right. Maybe it's true. I don't know the extent to what she's done that or whether it's so

obvious. Right. Right. Yeah. I honestly, I don't think that's, I don't think that's what was bothering her about it. Like, you should know me by now. Maybe it, maybe it really was. In which case, I do think it's a little annoying. I agree with her, though, that when she was like, when all she had to say about it was, yeah, hopefully. Then to follow up with the would you ever do it alone, I think, I agree. That was like too much for this. Like if she would have been like, yeah, I really want them. Like I'm just, if she would have started opening up about like meeting someone and how

she's afraid of the timeline and she's like leaning into this conversation and it was like maybe a more private setting too. Like it doesn't sound like it was a private setting. And then after she's like leaning in showing she's interested and being vulnerable, then said, would you ever consider doing it alone? I think it would be very different than this. Yeah. And I can see why she feel like almost a little like, are you concerned for me? I don't necessarily think she meant that. But here's the thing. And as someone who like also feels like they're like to have kids, you have to kind of think of that like, oh, does everyone like wondering why I don't have kids or does everyone think that I haven't met anyone so I'm never going to have kids? Like, let's just say that's true. Fine. Let's say like all your friends are secretly concerned that you're not going to meet anyone in time to have kids.

Right. Okay. Right. And what? And then what? Right. I get not wanting to like feel like people are looked down on you or pity you. Yes.

But you can't really control that. Right. And it is what it is. Yeah. Which is why I also think there's some. strength in like owning your own fear around it if you have fear around it which it sounds like you do i mean that's that was the birth of the triggered segment right it's like you already are feeling something and then someone's like poking at your wound that's what a lot of triggers are like

i'm already insecure about this thing and most of the time when we get offended like yes there are just some rude people in the world but the ones that we can't shake are mostly because there's some insecurity, fear, shame, some negative, vulnerable emotion that is being brought up to the surface in that moment. So I think if you can own that you're scared about this and allow those feelings to exist and like allow yourself to be scared and then also allow yourself to be like, I'm going to be okay no matter what happens. And like we always talk about, see if you can take the timeline out of it a little bit. then you'll be less triggered, I think, by these types of conversations because I totally agree

with you the way she brought it up, the context, not reading the room, but you also want to be able to, if it's not her friend, it's going to be someone, it could be your, like a, you know, one of your friend's parents or it could be your boss or anyone that makes some of these really annoying, insensitive, when are you having kids, when are you getting married comments, which happen all the time. Right. So you can either do the thing where you're like, it wasn't the right context, it wasn't the right setting,

read the room, and I agree. Or you can go through that process a little bit more deeply of like, yes, I'm scared of this. It's something that I'm worried about. I'm doing the best I can. I'm feeling my feelings. I'm allowing myself to have this.

And so that way when someone brings it up, it's not like they're catching you, like asking you a question that feels. like totally off guard. Agreed. And if it is your good friend and she says that, and I think you could also say like, yeah, it's actually kind of like a fear of mine and it makes me really anxious and like I really don't want to talk about it. Yes.

Right now. Yes. I think that's an amazing response. And that that response would come from like being a little bit prepared, right, for this. Right. Type of thing. We were like, yeah, exactly what you just said. And let her know, like, thanks for bringing that up.

It's like one of the scariest things that I could think of in my life. So let's talk about it right now at the, you know, Chuckie cheese. Right. Yeah. And I guarantee she will be more sensitive going forward if she's your, if she's your real friend. Right. About that. Totally.

But I validate that that is like triggering and annoying when someone takes something that kind of I think it should be like a little bit obvious that that might be a slightly sensitive topic to her and to just not maybe make a thought. comment. I don't think she did it to annoy you or because she secretly thinks it's never going to happen for you. But I could still, I still think she could be more sensitive, but maybe you've never had a conversation with her about your anxiety around this. Yes. So it's a good opportunity I think to become closer to that friend. Yeah. I agree. I totally agree. I think the setting, it was like she's the only one there that's like not, hasn't a step on the rung of the ladder of like getting there so I could see she probably already felt a little insecure going into this. It's usually not someone's favorite place to be in those types of context when you're the only

single person and everyone else is like either engaged or married or dating or has kids already or whatever. Sometimes that can be challenging. So I get it. But ultimately, I think it's on you to like own your own feelings on this so that then you have that, like, power of not being triggered by other people. Agreed. I'd give it four and a half.

Yeah. I'll even give it a five because she tried to imply on the first question. Like, I don't really want to talk about this. And she went, like, even harder. She didn't, yeah, not able to read the room. I'll give it a five. I agree with you. I'll change mine.

All right. And our last triggered is a voicemail. We love getting voicemails. So if you have one, please send it in. We love hearing the tone in your voice for these. Let's roll the tape. Hi, Dr. Naomi and Georgiana. I am a huge fan of both oversharing and you up,

but I have a triggered scenario for you. Today is Monday, and last Wednesday I went out to lunch with some coworkers, and when the check came, it was one of their birthdays. So it was discussed that we would split amongst the three of us, and I said I would put my card down and they can Venmo or Zob. me. One of my coworkers immediately Venmoed me and didn't really hear anything from the other two.

So Thursday and Friday came and went and I saw both of them, both days, and nobody said anything. And here we are on Monday. I'm thinking that the issue has passed maybe for them, but not exactly for me. It's about $50 a person. Don't know if that affects the scale. But I am a little triggered, but too non-confrontational. I don't think I'll say anything, but I am curious, how triggered would you be? This one was so strange to me because, like, that's sort of, like, the most incredible thing about Venmo. Send the request. Just send the request. And then that's your way of saying something without actually having to text them and be, like, in the olden days, you had to be like, hey, do you have me 50 bucks? Yeah, like, to their face to be, like,

which would be like so hard to get your money. Now you don't even have to text. You could just request. Yes. That's the point of Venmo. I'm sure they were probably waiting for you to send the request. They forgot. Or they don't know how much it was.

Yeah. They didn't sign the bill. Sometimes I'm like, oh, they'll just say Venmo me or I'll just kind of assume they will once they get their credit card when they look at their credit card statement. Right. Yes. Send the Venmo request. I'm going to give this a low rating.

I appreciate. the voicemail, but if you would have sent the request and then they didn't pay you, then you have a case. I agree. If you send the request and it's even more than a week after the request is sent and there's no mention or approval or sending of it, I could see being triggered, but you haven't done your part here. Yeah.

Yeah. I get it. It is weird. There's like this thing of like, I shouldn't have to ask you for it. So I validate her a smidge, especially if this, if Venmo wasn't a thing, then there is more of that. Like I don't, please don't put me in a position where I have to be asking you for money. Because then I feel like grubby. And I don't like the way that feels.

Don't make me do this. Right. And so I think she kind of feels like that. Like she kind of feels like, why are you putting me in the position where I have to like grub for money here? but that's what, like I think people just take Venmo for what it is, which is when you want money from me, you're going to ask for it. I'm going to click pay and we're going to move on with our day. Yeah.

And I would prefer to be Venmo than just an amount than someone text me and ask me where their money is. Like I think it's like I wouldn't think of it as, oh my God, they're like hounding me. Like that's just what you do. That's just what you do. And I think this is, I'm glad you're writing it because from now on, if, you know, And she did say Venmo me. She didn't say, I'll request you.

I'll Venmo request you. Right. So maybe there's a little bit of a thing there. But I think from now on, if you're going to do this, it's good. Desensitize yourself. Send the Venmo requests. Just send the Venmo request. And the more you do it, the easier it'll be.

And people will pay you. And it will be done. Yes. I give it a two. Yeah. Same. So you didn't ask. Yes.

Same. All right. Well, let Angry Orchard help you celebrate that sweet release. What better way to toast to that relief than with a crisp, refreshing flavor of Angry Orchard made with real fruit, two apples in every 12 ounce can or bottle. It's your life. It's that bold beverage that keeps it real. I love Angry Orchard. It really transports me to like a fall orchard. I feel like I am in a different place, not a care in the world, just enjoying a nice cold cider. Love it. Don't get angry, get Orchard. Learn more and find a hard sider near you at Angry Orchard.com slash locations. Follow Angry Orchard on Instagram at Angry Orchard. All right. Well, I think we help some people.

I hope even those of you who get low trigger ratings, we still love you. Keep writing. Just trying to help you chill. Yes. Breathe through it. Breathe through it. All right. That's our time.

Great work today. oversharing is produced and edited by rebecca steinberg be sure to follow us on instagram at everything's fine and send your advice emails to oversharing at betches.com or leave us a voicemail at 646363 6294 betches